Podcast Summary: "Hilke Schellmann: Is Your New Boss a Robot?"
Podcast: What Now? with Trevor Noah
Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Trevor Noah
Guest: Hilke Schellmann (Investigative Journalist)
Main Theme: Exploring the rise of artificial intelligence (AI) in job hiring, the workplace, and the consequences for workers and society.
Episode Overview
Trevor Noah welcomes investigative journalist Hilke Schellmann to discuss her deep-dive work on artificial intelligence's growing role in job recruitment, hiring, and management. Delving into the practical, ethical, and societal impacts, this episode unpacks the realities behind automated hiring processes, the biases encoded in AI, surveillance in the workplace, and the broader question: what does “work” mean when algorithms may decide who gets a job—or doesn’t—even before a human ever sees an application?
Key Topics and Discussion Points
1. Setting the Stage: AI’s Invasion into Work
- Schellmann's Background: Hilke describes how her curiosity as an investigative journalist led her to focus on AI in hiring after a chance encounter with a Lyft driver who had a job interview conducted by a robot (09:00).
- “I used to investigate all kinds of things and now I just investigate AI... I’m trying to understand, like, how does it work in society. And maybe who are the winners and losers?” — Hilke Schellmann [07:55]
- AI Posters in NYC: Trevor shares his unease seeing mysterious posters about AI’s effect on jobs across New York City, underscoring the growing public anxiety and curiosity (06:46).
2. How AI is Used in Hiring Today
- AI’s Place in Recruitment: Large companies use AI to handle vast numbers of applications, from resume screening to one-way video interviews and even personality games (21:44).
- “Goldman Sachs said a few years ago for their summer internship, they had over 100,000 applications. So they have to like go through these applications and like narrow down the pool. So you use like resume screening AI, you use like video interviews.” — Hilke Schellmann [24:46]
- One-Way Video Interviews Explained: Applicants answer questions on video, alone, which AIs may then screen without a human ever watching the footage (23:23).
3. Biases Old and New: Human vs Algorithmic
- AI Can Encode Existing Biases: AI screening can unwittingly replicate or amplify existing workplace inequities, such as gender or racial bias, by learning from biased historical data.
- Example: Amazon’s hiring algorithm devalued resumes with the word “woman” or "women," because the data it learned from was already gender-skewed (33:36).
- “If you had the word woman or women on your resume, you got downgraded because, you know, the tool had learned over time... it's a pattern machine.” — Hilke Schellmann [33:36]
- Hidden Resume “Cheats”: Some AIs give extra points for seemingly random words ("Thomas,” "Syria,” or “Canada”), revealing the accidental, irrational logic of pattern-matching (35:34).
- “If you had the word Thomas on your resume, you also got more points... Or like, in another case, it was like words like Syria and Canada... That got you up actually.” — Hilke Schellmann [35:34]
- Bias Transparency Paradox: With AI, for the first time, patterns of bias can become more visible, offering a unique—if challenging—opportunity for reform (46:47).
- “Now AI has gotten involved, and we see the AI mirroring many of our biases. But the difference is with AI, we can actually see it. We couldn’t see it before." — Trevor Noah [46:47]
4. Candidate Gaming and “AI Warfare”
- AI vs. Applicant AI: Now, job seekers use AI tools (like ChatGPT) to enhance their resumes and cover letters—resulting in AI competing with AI in the hiring process (30:11).
- “Now it’s AI warfare, because I’m going to use AI to apply for the job, they’re going to use AI to grade me. I’m going to use the AI to pass the grades.” — Trevor Noah [30:13]
- Questioning the Purpose of Interviews: The traditional “vibe check” and informal social fit has little evidence of predicting job performance—but is still encoded, by humans or AI, into hiring systems (31:21).
5. Productivity Surveillance and Job Security
- Work Surveillance: Modern AI doesn’t just hire; it’s used to monitor workers, tracking everything from email activity to bathroom breaks, with predictive algorithms flagging those who might quit or underperform (64:05-69:50).
- “An AI will sort of take in all of the digital traces that you leave. How many emails you send, how many Zoom meetings you attend... and then tell the person… ‘Why aren’t you doing that?’” — Hilke Schellmann [64:33]
- Productivity Theater: Employees adapt by performing “busy-ness” for the algorithms (messaging early/late, scheduling emails) creating a charade rather than true productivity (67:14).
- “You check in on Slack and be like, ‘Hey everyone, good morning, like 7:45 crazy.’ And then you turn around and take your dog for a walk." — Hilke Schellmann [67:40]
6. Legal, Ethical, and Societal Solutions
- What Can Be Done?: Hilke advocates for:
- Greater transparency on how algorithms and surveillance systems are being used.
- Stronger data privacy laws and worker protections.
- Structures like Germany’s “worker councils,” giving employees a say in technologies that govern them (74:50).
- More skepticism from HR and business leaders—demanding real evidence of AI effectiveness before deployment (74:51).
- Worker awareness: use the right to request your data (in Europe), pressure lawmakers, and understand the basics of how these systems work [73:99].
- “I think companies should tell, should be mandated to tell their employees what kind of software they use in them.” — Hilke Schellmann [74:51]
- Fundamental Question: Are we just automating broken processes? Both Trevor and Hilke agree: old human hiring practices were flawed, and encoding them into algorithms only “scales brokenness” unless fundamental reforms are made (61:28).
- “It seems like we are expanding and scaling on a foundation that was already broken.” — Trevor Noah [61:28]
Noteworthy Quotes & Moments
- “Multiple studies have shown humans are terrible at predicting the future, especially when it comes to hiring.” — Trevor Noah [31:36]
- “Maybe at one point, we’re just not even going to do a job interview anymore. A company will just tell you if you’re hired or fired based on all the social exhaust, the data exhaust we sort of leave around.” — Hilke Schellmann [57:23]
- “You have to be much more skeptical. Scrutinize these tools, and then we probably have a chance of building a better world.” — Hilke Schellmann [79:19]
- “Thank you very much. From Syria, from Canada, and Thomas, we just want to say let’s, let’s… Thank you very much.” — Trevor Noah, playfully referencing the “cheat codes” for resumes [80:35]
Useful Timestamps
- Intro & Setting the Scene: AI and hiring bias [00:04–01:21, 06:46]
- Hilke’s investigative journey [07:55–11:27]
- Real-world impact: AI replacing entry-level jobs [16:21–18:43]
- How much hiring is AI-based now? [21:16–22:04]
- How AI screens resumes; one-way video explained [23:11–24:43]
- AI hiring horror stories (Amazon and resume keywords) [33:36–35:34]
- Gaming the system, ‘AI warfare’ [30:11–31:36]
- Discussion on bias—historical and algorithmic [46:47–49:39]
- Surveillance at work & productivity theater [64:04–69:00]
- Legal & ethical solutions; worker councils (Germany) [74:50–75:03]
- Final thoughts, ongoing impact of investigative journalism [79:38–80:46]
Tone & Style
The conversation is inquisitive, humorous, and candid, with Trevor’s signature blend of skepticism and wit. Hilke is both analytical and warm, offering grounded examples, technical clarity, and societal context, while the co-host Eugene Koza acts as a proxy for listeners less immersed in the tech world, surfacing everyday concerns and observations about fairness, bias, and transparency.
Summary Conclusion
This episode highlights how AI technologies are rapidly transforming the hiring landscape—but often by scaling up pre-existing human flaws rather than fixing them. Both the promise and peril of such systems are evident: while automation can bring efficiency, it can also magnify hidden biases, dehumanize hiring, and erode privacy for workers. The hope? With vigilant investigation, skepticism, legal reforms, and transparency, there’s still time to course-correct before our “new boss”—a robot—makes all the rules.
For those interested in learning more about how AI works behind the scenes in job markets—and how to protect yourself as these algorithms become ubiquitous—this conversation with Hilke Schellmann is essential listening.