If I Ruled the World: Tressie McMillan Cottom Throws Down [VIDEO]

Summary

Episode Summary: "If I Ruled the World: Tressie McMillan Cottom Throws Down"

Introduction

In this engaging episode of What Now? with Trevor Noah, host Trevor Noah sits down with sociologist and cultural critic Tressie McMillan Cottom, alongside guest Christiana, to play the thought-provoking game "If I Ruled the World." The conversation delves into societal structures, economic systems, and the intricacies of public discourse, all through a blend of humor, insight, and radical candor.

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Playing "If I Ruled the World"

Trevor introduces the game, emphasizing its purpose to explore imaginative solutions without the constraints of current systems. He remarks, “If you don't think that it's impossible and you cannot even get to it if you think it's not, does that make sense?” (03:56).

Christiana's Proposal: Limiting Public Discourse

Christiana kicks off the game with a bold idea: restricting the number of words individuals can contribute to public discourse online. She states, “If I ruled the world in my crypto fascist state, I would put a restriction on the amount a person is allowed to contribute to the public discourse in text” (07:11). This proposal aims to reduce the noise and chaos often found in online interactions, fostering more meaningful and considerate communication.

Tressie questions the practicality of implementing such a system, raising concerns about potential abuses and the technological challenges of monitoring word counts. Christiana responds by suggesting a fine system that scales with one's income, ensuring fairness across different economic backgrounds (09:30).

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Tressie McMillan Cottom’s Proposal: National Job Corps for Customer Service

Tressie introduces her vision: a national job corps dedicated to customer service roles. She explains, “If I ruled the world, there would be a national job corps for customer service jobs. Everybody would be conscripted into working in customer service for some period of time in their life” (32:25). Her rationale is rooted in fostering empathy and understanding among citizens by ensuring everyone experiences frontline service work.

Tressie argues that this initiative would bridge the empathy gap and reduce dehumanization, as individuals from diverse backgrounds would share common experiences in customer-facing roles. Trevor appreciates the idea's potential for promoting intergenerational and cross-class interactions, noting its capacity to break down societal barriers (50:01).

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Debate and Voting

As the ideas are presented, the participants engage in a lively debate. Christiana expresses anxiety over limiting public discourse but acknowledges the merits of reducing online noise (30:54). Tressie counters by emphasizing the need to dismantle the attention economy that perpetuates superficial interactions (27:35).

Ultimately, Tressie's proposal wins unanimously, with both Trevor and Christiana voting in favor. The victory underscores the group's collective agreement on the importance of fostering genuine human connections and mitigating the negative impacts of modern communication overload.

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Key Insights and Conclusions

1. Impact of Online Discourse: Limiting online communication could potentially reduce the spread of misinformation and decrease the emotional fatigue associated with constant digital interactions.

2. Empathy Through Experience: Instituting a national job corps for customer service can cultivate empathy, ensuring that individuals from all walks of life understand the challenges faced by service workers.

3. Social Cohesion: Both proposals aim to enhance social cohesion by encouraging meaningful interactions and reducing societal divisions exacerbated by current economic and communication systems.

4. Economic Implications: Tressie's idea also touches on the broader economic structures, suggesting that integrating more people into service roles could lead to a more equitable and understanding society.

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Notable Quotes

• Trevor Noah: “If you don't think that it's impossible and you cannot even get to it if you think it's not, does that make sense?” (03:56)

• Christiana: “If I ruled the world in my crypto fascist state, I would put a restriction on the amount a person is allowed to contribute to the public discourse in text.” (07:11)

• Tressie McMillan Cottom: “If I ruled the world, there would be a national job corps for customer service jobs. Everybody would be conscripted into working in customer service for some period of time in their life.” (32:25)

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Conclusion

This episode of What Now? with Trevor Noah offers a compelling exploration of how reimagined societal roles and communication structures can foster a more empathetic and cohesive community. Through spirited dialogue and innovative proposals, Trevor, Tressie, and Christiana inspire listeners to think critically about the world they wish to create.

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Timestamp Reference:

• All timestamps correspond to the transcript provided and are denoted in [MM:SS] format throughout the summary.

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

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[Christiana]

I think he's gonna run for office.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

In South Africa's gonna be president.

[Christiana]

Trevor's gonna be the president.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

But I said, so what? You're gonna go home and run for office? And you went, he's gonna be the what?

[Christiana]

He's go no, no, no, no. Zelensky used to be a comedian.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. And look at his life now. Look at his life now.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Maybe not a good example.

[Trevor Noah]

This is what now with Trevor Noah this episode is brought to you by SurveyMonkey. Picture this. You're about to launch your new product or you're trying to improve a customer's experience and and you need to know what people think. So how would you do that? SurveyMonkey is the easy, powerful way to get the answers you need. We're talking AI powered next level genius mode. All you have to do is type your idea in a little box and boom. It builds the whole survey for you. That way you get to ask questions the way a survey scientist would and they're really smart. Plus, SurveyMonkey doesn't just show you the responses. It uses powerful AI to dig in deep, find patterns and spot trends so you can go ahead and make decisions with speed and confidence. So whether you're a business owner, a marketing manager, or work in HR, go get real insights with SurveyMonkey. Head to surveymonkey.com results this message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Here's one reason I think Apple Card is good for your wallet. It's designed to support your financial well being. It's a no fee credit card that offers smart payment suggestions to help you pay off your balance faster. Plus you can get daily cash back on every purchase every day so you can stress less about money and focus more on enjoying life. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Variable APRS for Apple card range from 18.8 to 28.49% based on credit worthiness rates as of January 1, 2025 terms and [e-mail]. well, all right. You ready to play some if I Ruled the World?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I'm ready.

[Trevor Noah]

All right, let's do it. This is one of my favorite games to play with people, and there are a few people in the world who are more my favorite than Tressi macmillan Carter. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. So what I love about playing the game if I Ruled the World is oftentimes we think about the world in a gradual way. And I think sometimes as people, we get bogged down in what we perceive possibility to be.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Trevor Noah]

And so I love playing the game for myself and for other people because I think it's good to remind ourselves that everything is possible. If you don't think that it's impossible and you cannot even get to it if you think it's not, does that make sense?

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So it's impossible to fly, but someone goes like, but maybe it isn't. And then one day you're flying.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

So we don't know. And not everything is possible, but everything's impossible if you don't try to get there. So if I Ruled the World, it's a very simple game that we play. Everyone gets a chance to say what they would do if they ruled the world. And when. I mean, rule the world, don't get bogged down. Don't worry about bureaucracy. Don't worry about, like, people coming after you, not coming after you. Don't worry about voting. Everyone develops. No, they develop amnesia, so they won't go. But it used to be like this. No, it is not like that.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. Your goal is to get the other two people on this podcast to vote for you. To vote for you.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I didn't know it was a competition part that act.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not a competition. No, it's not a competition.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes, it is. Like you just said, there's voting involved.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not a competition. It's not a competition.

[Christiana]

You have to vote.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not a competition.

[Christiana]

Just to see the merits of the idea. Trevor's ideas rarely win. So don't feel. Don't feel like they've never won.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, they've never. I don't think they've ever won. No, I don't mind.

[Christiana]

I think. Josh. Josh, I've had an idea win.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh.

[Christiana]

Ben made us do a day off.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, Ben, we went with. But I think Josh hasn't won either.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It's not surprised by that.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not about winning.

[Christiana]

Josh has crazy life stuff. He's never tried once.

[Trevor Noah]

He was like, you love Josh.

[Christiana]

Everyone do shrooms. We're like, josh, have you done shrooms? No. Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh has some.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

He's.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh has some crazy ones where you're like, wait, Josh what? Like, what was Josh. One of Josh's last ones was. He thinks that in your sentencing or in how you get punished in society, pettiness should be existing.

[Christiana]

No, petty is power.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but no, it was like, pettiness should be exempt, essentially. So he said, like, for instance, if you committed a crime or did something to someone but it was because of pettiness, you shouldn't be punished.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah, okay. A pettiness pass.

[Christiana]

It's like, yeah, Trevor told us not to be polite. He was like, let's get rid of customer service. Or was it politeness?

[Trevor Noah]

I don't think I would have said that.

[Christiana]

It was something around those things.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I think my. Oh, I think mine was. I said like, your. Your. Your aptitude should not be measured by your affable nature.

[Christiana]

Yeah, that was.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I was saying. I was like, people should not go, you are a good president because you can speak well. Or because you're. No.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, no.

[Trevor Noah]

People should not say you're a good waiter or waitress because you are. You're nice to the people. Customer service. Just do the thing. Don't even ask me how my day is, is what I was saying.

[Christiana]

And I was like, I want. How is your day?

[Trevor Noah]

British people?

[Christiana]

Because I don't get that anymore.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't get that she came here with her, traumatized.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah. And they're like, americans are so nice. I'm like, yeah, I know where you're from.

[Trevor Noah]

She was willing to trade incompetence for being nice. So that's how the game works.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

We'll go in it, we discuss it. You know as much, and people will challenge you, and you tell us why you think it's good. Remember, you state your case, you tell us why you think this would work. We ask a few questions, and then we vote.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, as I say, it's not about winning, even though Christiana has won. It's just about, you know, us.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Have I ever mentioned my competitive nature? I'm not proud.

[Christiana]

I mean, you're MacArthur Jr. Skrill, New York Times.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Christiana]

We've never played this game with a genius sociologist. We kind of. We gleaned it.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. All right. So how do we want to start? Who wants to start?

[Christiana]

Well, ladies, do you want to go second? I'll guess first.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Whoa. Going. Tracy. First.

[Christiana]

Oh, no, I'll go first.

[Trevor Noah]

You go first. You go first. You go first. All right.

[Christiana]

All right. So if I ruled the world in my crypto fascist state, I would put a restriction on the amount a person is allowed to contribute to the public discourse in text. So you have a limited amount of words. Shots fire per month, you can contribute to the. And it doesn't matter.

[Trevor Noah]

Every time I think I know how crazy Christiana is. This woman surprises.

[Christiana]

I thought this through, guys.

[Trevor Noah]

Keep going.

[Christiana]

We need to put. So there's freedom of speech in the real world, but when it comes to freedom of text, there is restriction.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Freedom of text.

[Christiana]

There is not freedom of text.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

This curve out. Freedom of text. That's interesting.

[Trevor Noah]

This is interesting.

[Christiana]

Remember that the white man said, the pen is mightier than the sword for a reason?

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, fine. And that guy was stabbed by the sword afterwards. But okay, let's. Okay, I have a question.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

But I mean, okay, how are you going to. Because arguably everything now is tech, right? This is one of the things. How are. Is there any ranking or sorting for, like, what one contributes with this?

[Christiana]

I don't care about those.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I ask out of obvious personal interest.

[Christiana]

You could be a MacArthur Wingan sociologist.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I was wondering if that's what you meant.

[Christiana]

You could be a sociologist. You could be a comedian.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Everybody has the same amount of money.

[Christiana]

See, because I am also a socialist, so I believe in equality, and I'm a communist, so it's free. I'm not charging you for the number of words. However, there is a restriction. There is a limit. There is a limit on the amount you can contribute to the public discourse.

[Trevor Noah]

Maybe to Tracy's question, in a way. Like, is it like an actual limit of an amount of words?

[Christiana]

Yeah, words.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so actual words, we count. So. And counts the same as, like, the word compulsion.

[Christiana]

It doesn't work.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, okay. So getting at my. Yeah, See, I try to say a lot and a little. But you're saying, okay.

[Christiana]

And the great thing is it'll make you pithier.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so it's word count. Okay, so you're basically putting a word.

[Christiana]

Count because, you know, I believe men shouldn't say more than 400 words a day.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Again. Fair enough.

[Christiana]

Why is a man saying. Let me tell you, my husband starts about 350. I try to talk more, and he's.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Like, no, I'm good.

[Christiana]

Yeah, yeah. He don't want to say More. And he's like, why am I. Why should I talk? There's nothing to say. Okay, but.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so that's the limit. And then what happens if you go above that?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah. You just can't fine a fine.

[Trevor Noah]

A fine.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Well, okay, now, that can become a tax, though.

[Christiana]

No, no, it's a fine weighted to your income. Because let me tell you the story I heard about Donatella Versace. She was smoking under a no smoking sign, and they said, Ms. Versace, you can't smoke there. And she said, just tell me what the fine is.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Christiana]

Oh, the fine has to be weighted to your income.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right. Because in economics, amendment, some people fine. It's just a tax.

[Christiana]

Yeah. So it's punitive. I don't believe in a carceral state, so I'm not going to throw you in prison.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

But what I'm going to say, yours gets complicated. That abolition thing, Right.

[Christiana]

Well, now I kind of do believe in prison, but that's okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so. So you get fined, and it's. It's a proportion of your net worth.

[Christiana]

It's weighted.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. Weighted to how much you. Okay, okay. All right. Okay. Another question. I have it. Oh, man.

[Christiana]

It doesn't compel you to contribute to the public discourse.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I understand.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Is it. And it's cumulative. It's like life course. Like. Like, I start out.

[Christiana]

No, every month, say in the. In your month, you get, like 800 words. Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

So it is weighted to, like, your lifespan.

[Trevor Noah]

So it doesn't accumulate over time.

[Christiana]

No, it resets.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I can't say at.

[Christiana]

It resets at the beginning of every month.

[Trevor Noah]

So there's no books.

[Christiana]

No, I'm talking about the public discourse. I'm talking about online in terms of.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, you're saying only online.

[Christiana]

Online. I'm talking about. Because I. And I'm going to give you the thinking behind this. Yes, we are. Big political events of the last 10 years have been heavily shaped and manipulated by online behavior.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I agree.

[Christiana]

For good or for bad, it's been online.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I agree.

[Christiana]

And some people have had an outsized influence on it, whereas some other people haven't. And it's been these fringes. So I just think, cap it, the.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Podcast bros are going to come for you.

[Christiana]

Well, they'll just be on the mic more, they'll speak more.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Do you see the perverse incentives there? That's. So now the men will go from writing a whole bunch of words and throwing them at me to speaking them.

[Christiana]

I mean, they already have the mic, so.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Well, that's what we should be going after. The mics.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I'm going to. This is a no for me because I don't think you're solving the issue you're trying to solve. So understanding how a lot of the social discourse has been shaped in America and around the world, I think is very important for people. We really saw this around Black Lives Matter. Right. Most people still do not know that most of the memes and the tweets and the posts that they saw came from Russia. Right. Now, I'm not saying this as, like, a Hillary and the Russian. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying on like, a very simple level, they found a lever that they could pull in the same way North Korea has focused on hacking crypto.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, North Korea. I don't. Most people don't even, like, know this. North Korea has gone on, like, a very concerted mission to hack crypto wallets around the world. And they've gone, oh, this money is untraceable, but it's usable everywhere, and it's really powerful. And when you steal it, no one can come after you.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

So North Korea has gone out. They steal tons of crypto everywhere in the world, and no one can, like, do anything about it because you can't, like, really prove it's them and it's. And they can use it. You can't, like, stop them. Okay. The same thing happened in and around social media. There were all these farms that were produced in and around Russia and even, like, parts of Ukraine, if my memory serves me correctly. Right? And, like, basically what they did was they just came after Americans and they did it as simply as this. Every issue, they created a meme or a post, a binary, both ways. And they just shot them out. They just shot them out. Here's why the police are coming after you. Here's why they're trying to kill the police. Here's why black people are the worst thing. Here's why black people are the best thing. That's all they did. They diagnosed an issue correctly, by the way, but then they really inflamed the tension. So the issue I worry about on your side is you may stop people who maybe post a lot or write a lot online, but then they will create a world of people who gets to, like, sort of outspeak them, because how are you shutting them down? Like, they'll even, like. I can even just think of a simple one. Elon could just buy people to say.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

His thing, which is what he's effectively Done. That's what I was gonna say. This is like a Twitterization of everything.

[Christiana]

Oh, that's a, That's a good point.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

So we saw this arc with Twitter, to your point, because that's what Elon Musk knew or figured out or saw happen with Twitter. He realized that there was a real moment. People kind of forget this moment. There's a real moment of fear. Governments across this country, when the Arab Spring happened, that, yes, somehow social media had shifted the balance of power towards a democratization of voices who could influence people's beliefs. And immediately there was a technological solution to that. Who said, no problem, we will just make 50 trillion bots. Right. Train on our behavior. Because text is easily manipulated to make it sound like a person. This is what you say, well, these.

[Christiana]

Are good points, but I believe I could create, not myself, but hire someone to create the technology to eliminate bots.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, but let's say no bots. I'm saying they would buy people. So what I'm saying is you could easily then say, okay, as Trevor I've finished my 800 word count, but I want to, like, wait the election. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pay. Hey, have you used your 800 count? Thank you, I'll take that. And actually, here, just post this.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right, right.

[Trevor Noah]

In fact, have you seen some of the more interesting music campaigns that are being run now? So music used to be a very different game in that, like the way you would get an artist to blow up was really defined by the labels for the most part. They told a radio station, play this person. We'll give you the resources. Play this person. And that's how you became a star. Things started changing with streaming, with social media, with all of that, because now you couldn't. Labels couldn't dictate it the same way. But they have found something that's been really effective now and that is. And I think Drake did this for his latest album. It's pretty brilliant.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

They've gone out to everyone online, not just like, quote, unquote, influencers. They got you, you, you join this platform. I forget the name of the platform. And essentially it sells the services of just the people online. And what happens is I can come on there and say, as Trevor I have a campaign that I wanna launch. I have $10,000 and I pay it to the service. The service then goes out to everyone who signed up to it, who's just a regular person online and says to them, play the song, find a way to Play the song. Find a way to make this campaign go viral. And we pay you per view, so you don't pay people who failed. It's not like putting up a billboard on the highway and hoping people respond, no, you now go, oh, wow, that was an amazing dance Christiana did. She got 2 million views on that. We now pay her for the 2 million views. And then Tracy did something. It didn't catch on, so we don't really pay her for that. And so you are paying for performance. But what it does, though, is it creates a false idea of what trends are.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It's popular. That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

Because now you've paid people to make a trend, and because everyone's trying to chase the money, they then it makes it seem like there's a trend when there is no trend. And so I'm saying people could pay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Can I put an addendum about the music example? I just want to say this. They borrowed that from politics.

[Trevor Noah]

I did not know that the political.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Influencer model starting under Barack Obama, it started to mature later was exactly that. Make this go viral. Make this candidate seem inevitable. Trump just did it better. And at scale, he seems inevitable with a minority of the voters because he uses audience influencers. To this wonderful piece, I think, in the New York Times, like, a week ago, about this sort of, like, hidden influencer economy of politics and how Trump is, like, just bypassing the media altogether and going straight to this. And it is embedded in the White House, the White House press machine. This has gone mainstream. Music was actually late. We did this in politics already.

[Christiana]

Okay. So I have an addendum.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Christiana]

If you are found to be buying somebody's text.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Christiana]

Or if you accept payment for it, prison.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay. So you did put prison back on the table.

[Trevor Noah]

Prison's back on the table.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

See? See how fast that happens, by the way?

[Christiana]

I know. It's so sad.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It is nature.

[Christiana]

I was like, what else can I do? Can I make a bigger. Fine.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I got this. Excellent plan. But yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. So if people buy other people.

[Christiana]

No. I'm basically creating disincentives. Yeah. For purchasing somebody's vote. Just in the same way, like, in a lot of countries, there is a cap on how much you can donate. You can still campaign.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Christiana]

Or you can actually spend on a political campaign. Right. So then it just means that, like, the big money in politics doesn't happen.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. And just remind me one more time. The reason you're doing this is because.

[Christiana]

I think people talk too much online, myself included. Okay. I think that some People contribute to the discourse more than they should. And I think it's like, gets you out there to go and talk to people in real life.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'm ready to vote. Tracy, are you ready to vote?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I am ready to vote.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Your voters.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, that's fine. I was gonna go with the consensus.

[Christiana]

No, no, no, no.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay. This is back to my accurate diagnosis. Yeah, right. I agree wholeheartedly with trying to. Because what you're essentially saying you want to take the attention economy out of the discourse because it's ruined it. I am there 150%. I think you gotta go straight to jail because I think if you got any middle ground, people are going to game it. So based on that, I'm going to vote no.

[Christiana]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Christiana]

Trevor's voting no. I already know that.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm definitely voting no.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I'm also self interest. I'm one of those people with a lot of.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you lost, Tracy. As soon as you said words, I'm.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Going to tell you, when you said.

[Christiana]

Words, I was like, wow, you're coming for my chest.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, you said words. So the.

[Christiana]

Okay, Jesse, you're not even on Twitter anymore.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's true.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but.

[Christiana]

Okay, Tracy does lives more.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but. Okay, let me explain why I'm voting no, though. Just so. The reason I'm voting no is because. Really, because I'm sat across from somebody who I consider one of the greatest luminaries in this space. I don't think that it's fair that us idiots can say more than people like that.

[Christiana]

Oh, see, that's why I disagree.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. I mean this honestly. I mean this honestly. So I think sometimes the numbers shouldn't always be right because numbers are dangerous. Like mobs are numbers, but mobs are not necessarily numbers. Trevor.

[Christiana]

My issue is that the experts like Tressie are actually receding from the public discourse. I have lots of friends who are authors all these things.

[Trevor Noah]

Please don't get me wrong.

[Christiana]

The idiots are the ones who are the loudest voices right now.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm with you completely. And that's why I say to you.

[Christiana]

And it may bring the Tressis back to the Internet, to the public square, completely with you.

[Trevor Noah]

I always say this to you with love and understanding. I vote no. Not because I disagree with what you've identified, but because I don't believe that this is the right way for us to solve it. And so my vote is also going to be a no.

[Christiana]

Accepted. There were. These were actually good notes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Your next plan is coming hard, is what you're saying.

[Christiana]

Yeah, I'm going to refine it. But these were good notes. I didn't. I didn't spot, you know, so taxing.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

The microphones again, I'm going to put that back on the table for you to consider.

[Christiana]

You know what? I. So I'm different. I kind of like the podcast. I don't like their content, but they just give us insight into the male psyche that I would otherwise never have.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, I like that. Yeah, It's a nice way to look at it. Yeah.

[Christiana]

You're just like, oh, this is how men really think. Because men don't really talk in that way.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Don't they, though?

[Christiana]

I avoid them, so I don't.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, all right. Let me be the man who then talks. Okay, I'll give you a little insight into my world. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. All right? Okay. If I ruled the world, I would abolish quarterly earnings that companies report on. And I would probably extend it even further than, like, companies wouldn't be able to report on their earnings for like, maybe like a few years actually. Like, no. No reporting at all from any company. They wouldn't be. They'd just be like, we just run, run, run, run, run, run.

[Christiana]

Like the SP 500. We wouldn't know what's going on with us.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, no, no, you wouldn't know their earnings. Like, so, you know, like right now it's quarterly.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Quarterly earnings report.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Like, yeah, it's gone.

[Trevor Noah]

No more quarterly earnings. And I would even extend it to maybe like two to three years. Maybe like every three years they could report their earnings.

[Christiana]

Right, okay.

[Trevor Noah]

And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. In my mind, I think we can draw a direct line between quarterly earnings and the destruction of most things society has held near and dear.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, yeah, I'm with you on that.

[Trevor Noah]

I think the shitification of everything, as I call it, I greatly attribute to quarterly earnings. Because the quarterly earnings has made it so that every CEO of every major company has to make sure that the reporting that they do four times a year shows that the company's making more money and is more profitable. Four times a year you have to do this. And because you have to do this and because it affects the share price and your job as a CEO. Your incentive is now to make sure that every quarter your company makes more money than it made in the previous quarter or the money is going up versus looking at the long term prospects of the company, the employees and the thing that you're actually trying to do in the world. And so when I look at every service, I, I am yet to find a company that became a better version of itself once it went public.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, strong agree.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. I genuinely have yet to see why.

[Christiana]

Don'T you ban IPOs?

[Trevor Noah]

So I thought about this, I thought about this. I thought about like, why, why not ban publicly listing and all this thing? So I do think from the little. Because I went and asked some of the people who work in Wall street and all of this and they said there is a major advancement that we should never take for granted that came from allowing people to collectively come in to build something even though they weren't there. Right. So I can see the value in that and I can understand it. And I was like, you know what I mean? Because I don't want to just be like, ah, ban all, you know, IPOs. And you know, some people would say that, ban it all. I can see why. Yeah, I wouldn't be against banning it, but I think there would be a second system effect that I can't predict right now. So what I would say is I would just ban the reporting of how much money people have made.

[Christiana]

People are going to steal so much money. I would steal money.

[Trevor Noah]

I have to do everything in my power to not say anything.

[Christiana]

You're going to say something about Nigerians.

[Trevor Noah]

I didn't.

[Christiana]

He's going to say something about Nigerians.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I didn't say anything of you right now.

[Trevor Noah]

I didn't say anything. I didn't, I didn't want to say anything.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Your first thought was I could see why I could get some money out of that.

[Trevor Noah]

Your first thought, Christiana, was that I am not going to say anything.

[Christiana]

I think on an accounting level, if we look at like Enron and all.

[Trevor Noah]

Of that stuff, okay.

[Christiana]

The lack of public accountability that's transparent. May take us to a place that is quite dangerous. Right. And now I, as much as I am a socialist, I'm a socialist that has quite a bit of money in the market.

[Trevor Noah]

Because of the champagne with the socialism.

[Christiana]

Listen, I got three kids, they got these 529 accounts. They're playing with the money. I want to know whether I should be holding, whether I should be letting things go.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Christiana]

And I think unfortunately, because of the way this country is set up, the west now, before your house used to be the thing. You could just have a house and, you know, you were okay. They are forced to us to put our money in the market.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yep. Everything's asset. The asset economy.

[Christiana]

And most of us would like to know what's happening to it every quarter. And I don't think that's a ridiculous thing.

[Trevor Noah]

I think the downside of you knowing is worse for the general public. So here's what I. I understand what you're saying and I still say, remember, there's still ramifications in my world. So if people are corrupt and all that, we will still catch them. They will just be caught later. They'd still have to report.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah, but your money's gonna be gone regardless.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I'm saying. So I'm saying I understand the guardrails you're trying to put in place. But I'm saying if we look at. I believe most companies are not run corruptly. Most CEOs are not stealing the money. Most, most, most. I always go with that. You know me, I believe in general. Good. So I think the risk that we're willing to take for a few because we will punish them severely when they are found. Do you get what I'm saying? So the company will no longer exist. The people will never be allowed to work in another company.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, now that's a good. Like there's a major, this major borrowing from the economy.

[Trevor Noah]

No, it's finished. You are gone. If you are busted in any Enron type thing, you are never doing anything businessy. Any. Any again. Facebook marketplace, don't even join it. It's gone forever. You are out of everythingness. That's like my remedy for it. Like you can go work for a very simple. Like you can be a cobbler.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But good luck being looking for a good cobbler too. We're running out of them, by the way.

[Christiana]

Brings back the trade.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It could push people into the trades.

[Christiana]

I think my real concern is similar to myself, that you have identified a problem which is this need for relentless profit and CEOs juicing up the company to serve shareholders rather than making good stuff. Because I don't think some companies need to grow forever. I think it's okay just to be your size. However, I don't think whether you do quarterly earnings or annual earnings, that will really change.

[Trevor Noah]

But I'm saying you can see it on the graph though. If you see, if you go back and look at this like once it really became a thing because it wasn't always a thing. And once quarterly earnings, you see the jump.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

So I think the issue here is the way that quarterly earnings have changed our understanding of the world, even if you aren't in the market. Yes, right. Which I agree.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I'm saying.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I think this is like something you said to me once, by the way, Christiana, which I love now using. Which is. It gives you this, like, casino economy.

[Trevor Noah]

That's exactly what I mean.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That you're constantly in a cycle of risk and loss.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I mean.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

You're chasing both the dopamine and the possibility.

[Trevor Noah]

And it's making people think things are.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Worse when it's better or when it's.

[Trevor Noah]

But it's not.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It's too. It's not a sign of quality.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like judging a roller coaster on every different slope.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean?

[Christiana]

Listen, I'm on schwab.com all the time.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trevor Noah]

That's.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's what I'm saying. I think part of your tension is that that's also happen at the same time. The quarterly earnings change in our understanding of the world happened at the same time. That all of a sudden we were all forced into the market. Because the problem is our houses shouldn't be assets. We shouldn't have to do our retirement accounts. We shouldn't even have these 529s. Your baby should just go to school. So it's really hard to like now get ourselves out of the mindset of, well, without that quarterly information, how will I provide? Companies don't have pensions.

[Christiana]

Companies don't have pensions anymore. So people are kind of.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

What would need to happen in Trevor scenario is basically a form of government that we used to have. You got to have a social safety net.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, no, no, no. Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

This is because how are you going to push people out of. The first thing you say to most Americans now is, no, I need to know what's happening with my 401k.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

And that's the problem. Yeah. Y' all, they love the 401k. The 401k is actually where I might say your problem originated more so than the quarterly earnings, because that made all of us care.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Once we had to do a 401k, everybody cared. And we're not supposed to care.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It shouldn't be that big of a deal. Yeah. Well. Okay.

[Christiana]

Is it time to vote?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I do have some. I mean, I could obviously talk about this so long. There are lots of second order issues that I would need to work out. Is a half vote a thing?

[Christiana]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Christiana]

Oh, you can't half vote for Hillary or Trump.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I tried. Just like I tried just now. Okay.

[Christiana]

Ooh.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I just don't think the downsides are significant enough. I actually think. Because this is one of those Things where it has existed before. So that means it's not like it's some weird alternate universe. We know we can live quite fine with yearly earnings. So because of that, I'm gonna vote yes. Believe it or not, we have a yes.

[Trevor Noah]

We have a yes.

[Christiana]

I'm going to vote no and not because I don't think it's a good idea. My personal level of anxiety. There isn't enough Zoloft in the world that can make me be like, we.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Gotta take your apps away.

[Christiana]

Oh, yeah. Trevor says that all the time.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah, Things happen there.

[Christiana]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think. And I think for a lot of regular people who unfortunately cause a 401s are the. So this is.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay. I have some of the information here. So. Okay. So. Quarterly earnings reports became a standardized requirement in the United States in 1970 when the SEC introduced Form 10Q as part of its filing system. The mandate formalized the practice. And I think it was because of a crash at some point. Because before. Prior to 1970, some companies provided some quarterly updates voluntarily, but they were inconsistent. And then it really became, like, a big deal.

[Christiana]

So really it was for, like, standardization, like, it's something.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

And regulation.

[Christiana]

Yeah, it was something serious.

[Trevor Noah]

But to your point, it was because of a crash, and people were like, oh, okay, we don't want this to happen again. But then to my point, there was another crash. I'm just going to point that out.

[Christiana]

There's something to the idea, but I just think it would give just regular people a lot of anxiety.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no. But why would. That anxiety would be based on the fact that they knew there was another way before. Don't forget amnesia. That's our rules.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There was no.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Christianity forgot about that.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't forget that part. The people don't know that there was quarterly.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That there was any other way.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm saying I'm taking it away completely. It has never been.

[Christiana]

So you've got me on the half vote. Maybe.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

See, I told y' all this is here. We need half vote. Actually, I may change mine today, by the way.

[Christiana]

No. Because people like me will still.

[Trevor Noah]

So. Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

We come back to human nature. This has actually been at the heart of a lot of our comments, like, do you just think this is a human nature.

[Christiana]

Human nature problem?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow. Okay. Well, another no for me, which I'm used to.

[Christiana]

Yes, I did actually.

[Trevor Noah]

I got a very valuable.

[Christiana]

And also, my no didn't come from a place of hate, where it usually comes from. It came from a place of just like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, this one was different because normally you go, like, I hate that idea. But here you went. I, you, you put. You blamed yourself, which I hate myself.

[Christiana]

Which is very different. Okay, that's progress.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'll take it. Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this. Okay, this is it. Drumroll, please.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, because you guys don't know this, but you foreshadowed mine.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, that's beautiful. Actually, then it's, then it's a perfect.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Journey not to say anything because I was like, ah. But I think my argument will be stronger than the statement. So here we go.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

If I ruled the world, there would be a national job corps for customer service jobs. Everybody would be conscripted into working in customer service for some period of time in their life for them to go on to the rest of the labor market. And let me tell you why. We have talked about job corps before about like going and doing the jobs that matter to the economy, but it's not the jobs our economy actually does. Right. This is a customer service is a service based economy. And what's happened in that I think has helped fuel, by the way, political polarization is depending on how much money or status you have, you can buy your way out of having to engage with customer service to get the same stuff you need. You know it. How many of us go to the airport now? And by I do, I bypass all of the lines. And if they come up with a new tier, I'm getting that one too. You damn right I want out.

[Trevor Noah]

TSA pre check clear + right. Advance global global and Global Global Global.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Industry, both numbers at the same time. And ask you which one gets me through faster? Like I'm shaking up at the TSA thing. Right? Get me through. But I do think that what that has done means it's kind of like the loss of public transportation. It's the loss of any public square. There are people experiencing this country now from a very myopic view, because we all do this. We extrapolate our everyday experiences and go, oh, that's how the world works. That's how the country works. Well, now some people's world actually works like an airport lounge where everything is smooth. And they're like, what do you mean? America's great. What are you talking about? Right? But you know who always knows that things aren't great? The people who have to actually provide the customer service.

[Christiana]

The people in retail.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's exactly the people on the other.

[Christiana]

End of the phone when you have a complaint.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah, that's right. So I want people before they go off to Wall street and before they go off to be a financial consultant or this, that, or the other. Right. I want them to understand that for the vast majority of people in this country, nothing works anymore. And this is why.

[Christiana]

And so you mean everyone would have to do from the richest to the poorest.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Sorry, Y.

[Christiana]

But poor people don't have time to.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Do you know why? Because I want them to work together. Well, they won't be doing other stuff. It's job corps.

[Christiana]

Okay, so you go explain how this is like.

[Trevor Noah]

So this is like military service. Yes, but customer service.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Christiana]

How long?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay, that's a good question. How long before you understand just how lucky you are? Probably six months. You probably get it within two weeks. But I say this as somebody who worked a lot of customer service jobs, so I might be more sensitive.

[Christiana]

Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

So maybe up to a year.

[Christiana]

And are you paid for it?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes, because I don't want to create, like, a permanent underclass with this. In fact, part of the point is people make money for this, and I need you to understand that shapes the whole thing. Right.

[Christiana]

So you're trying to close kind of the empathy gap, girl, in a way.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Christiana]

And you want people to understand how frustrating it is to be in America.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

And what they have been able to opt out of is not the majority of this country.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Okay. I won't say. There's one part of it that I really do like is I often say to people. So I'm in airports a lot, and I notice people who travel infrequently will have a very different attitude towards airport workers because for them, they don't understand how any of this isn't going according to plan. And I'll often say to people who are even there having a meltdown. Like, I've been at a gate when the flight's canceled, and I see people immediately go into meltdown mode. And sometimes I'll say to anyone who's around me, I go like, hey, don't waste your time. Let's just go rebook. Trust me, just go rebook. You're wasting your time because you're going after the face of the problem who has nothing to do with the problem. They don't know when the plane's coming. They can't clean the plane. They can't fix the plane. They can't do anything. They've just been told to tell you, and then they bear the brunt of it.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Right?

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And they are not the one who's making your Ticket, not work. So I do like that side of it. The question I have, though is because you say everyone does it and is it like every front facing job? So we're talking. I'll list a few jobs and you let me know if this includes them. Waiter.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes. Okay. Very much so.

[Trevor Noah]

TSA agents.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Airport booking. Like at the. Yeah, okay. Front desk at a hotel.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes. That was actually my.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay. Oh, that was one of yours.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

One I thought of first.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I'm trying to find.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Think of what else would anybody who answers the phone when you.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so call center agents, let me.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Tell you who's not included, because I did think about this, because we call a lot of stuff service now, that's not customer service. So there's like, you know, personal finance service, there's bank service, anything that. That where the customer service job is conditioned on the people have already cleared a high level of status to even be there. I'm not going to include. I don't want you providing customer service just to rich people or even just to only poor people. Because one of the benefits to me of this is that there are very few places anymore where you get a cross section of Americans.

[Trevor Noah]

So they'll work at the dmv.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Christiana]

What about hairdressers? Cause I have a good friend Vernon, who's an incredible hairdresser. I know.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Because we can't have people out here just messing folks heads up. I'm not trying to run. No. Kind of like Drezy's like.

[Christiana]

Oh, well, I was gonna say.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

No, that is skill based.

[Christiana]

What I was gonna say. I have a friend called Vernon Francois who's an amazing celebrity hairstylist, but he has like lots of clients who aren't celebrities. And he said something to me interesting. He was like, you know, I'm in service work.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Christiana]

He's like, I use my body.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

And he's like, people don't think of it as a physical, laborious job. I use my body and I'm very attuned to the client's emotions and whatever the client is, I have to be responsive to them. And when I leave work, I'm drained. Even if it's somebody that I really enjoy. And I never thought about his work. So I think that's like in the. Especially since a lot of women are in the beauty industry and like, you know, like nails.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I will say this, though, to Tressi's point. There's a level of reverence we have for hair people because they can Destroy our lives, that is.

[Christiana]

No, the hairdressers will not say that. They would say that we treat them badly, and that's why they demand a deposit. That's why you.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I would agree. I would agree that they would say that. And I actually also would agree that there's a coarsening of the people and how they interact with service providers. I would also say that if you gave most people a shot at working at a supercut, which coincidentally, one of my former jobs was trained into people who work at the Super Cut. So many jobs, y' all. It was at the Supercut. So I've seen it. As opposed to saying, hey, go work the front desk at the rental car agency, they would take the abuse at the hair at the hair cuttery every day. You know why? Because to Trevor's point, at the end of the day, however, you need your hair cut.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

There is an intimacy to the interaction. There's no intimacy. So I'm trying, but yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so hairdressers are not involved.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah. Because you need a skill to deliver it. Well, if delivering the customer service requires a certain amount of skilled training to do it, like you do need to know. Like that. You need to know the techniques. We can get most Americans based on just their everyday skills, to answer a phone.

[Christiana]

Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

And to push a button on the.

[Christiana]

Okay, so you're talking about, like administrative.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Front facing. I would say front facing, front line customer service.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Where you have to get something you need, and it would be really hard for you to get it any other kind of trustee.

[Christiana]

Can I tell you my concern?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes. That you're gonna have to work one of them.

[Christiana]

No, I did. Let me say something. One of my first jobs, I worked in Alders in Croydon, and I was retail. It was my Saturday's job. I was paid like maybe three, four pounds an hour.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Christiana]

Taught me every. It's taught me so much about what is Alders. Balders was like a sadly rip. It was a department store.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Like a Macy's type thing.

[Christiana]

Yeah. Not that fancy, but it was like a department store.

[Trevor Noah]

You clearly haven't been to Macy's recently.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

You were not wrong, but. Oh, that hurt.

[Christiana]

It was a Saturday job. I had my uniform and my friends worked across the street at House of Fraser, which was fancier department store. So I've worked retail and, you know.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

But you see what you said, what it taught you.

[Christiana]

Yeah, it taught me a lot. I mean, and. Well, this is the thing. I remember one. A distinct experience of a customer who was really cruel to me in the way she spoke to me because, like, there's always. People make an assumption about retail girls, especially when they look a bit young. Some people think this is going to be your job for the next 30 years. Even that to me shouldn't define how you treat them or whatever. And I remember feeling like very dehumanized in that moment. And I was just like, I will never speak to somebody working in retail like this. So whenever there's a sales associate, I try and make friends with them. Of course, they give you the good bags as well. But what I would knew about that interaction, though, there's a version of me that means I would want revenge. And when I'm on the other side of it, you're back to human nature. I'm going to treat people badly. And my fear is for a lot of people, when they have the power, when they've come out of job corps and they no longer are on the, you know, the person servicing, they're going to go around, they're going to treat people badly because they were treated badly.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Christiana]

So how do we. I think you're assuming people are going to learn the right people hurt people, which I see a lot.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I actually don't. I. I actually believe that human nature is a thing too. And I don't think we can solve for every like, you know, psychologically harmed person. What I do think, and again thought this one through, is yes, people will come out of there saying, see, the people do it are just stupid. As I thought, oh my God, I'm so glad to be back to my inheritance and my good life. I'm out of it. Right. But those people also were never gonna behave well anyway. Right. I do think you're gonna have a part of the population where that's not gonna work. But I do think that when we talk about this pulling apart from each other, which I don't romanticize, that we were never a cohesive culture or society. But the intimacy of our daily interactions increase the risk of us acting badly in certain ways. And I think that when we have lost that, we don't have to take the train together. We don't have to sit in the park together. We don't have to sit. When people can consistently buy themselves out of the public square to just get the stuff they need. I can live on Amazon. I never have to interact with the public. I think it makes it really easy to dehumanize each other and to say my fates are not linked to yours in any way at all. And I think that for maybe not everybody, but I think for a soft majority of people, any kind of exposure to having to share space with people in a way where you can't use your pre check, your clear. Your app that gives you this fast line at the McDonald's. I mean, do you see how it's trickled down by the. I mean, there is now a special line for everybody, everywhere, at every level of interaction. And I don't think that has been good for us.

[Trevor Noah]

But wait, wait, wait. Help me understand this. How would that solve that part? Because if everyone's in the job corps.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I still have my precheck, don't I?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yeah. Well, it solves it this way. You now have to experience the exchange from the other side.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

You still have the power.

[Trevor Noah]

I was working, so at some point I would know what it's like to be in the non precheck line.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Exactly right.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. All right. I do. Like many elements of this. I will say I think one of the things I like most is to your point. Wait, actually, let me ask this before I.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Before I assume, because remember, this is. You said something that made me feel like you're allowing people to choose when it happens.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

No, not when.

[Trevor Noah]

So when. So when is this happening in their lives?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I think it's pretty much like military service. I think you get drafted up, it's somewhere between, you know, your name goes in the big bucket, somewhere between 18 and 21.

[Christiana]

Or you worry that, you know, rich people will buy their way out.

[Trevor Noah]

You can't. You can't remember to a system.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

So you get the power.

[Christiana]

You get exemptions.

[Trevor Noah]

No. To a system.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Christiana]

So no exemption.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

No. Well, because the thing about customer service, we got so many variety. There shouldn't be exemptions for bone spurs.

[Christiana]

There's not?

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

No. Because I can find you something.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

You know what I'm saying? You can answer the phone from anywhere.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I'm going to find you something.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

And I might even be the one assigning it. I haven't gone that far, but the more I think about it, the more I like that idea. But yes, you're going to.

[Trevor Noah]

This is me pitching for you to win my vote. Would you consider making it something that people have to, like, go back and re up after a certain amount of time?

[Christiana]

I only say this because you may lose me there. Or.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why.

[Christiana]

Having to come.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why.

[Christiana]

Having to come back. Oh, no, no, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

Trevor, not. Wait, I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I think when young people go into these lines of work, they process it differently. It's almost like a hobby jobby thing, I hear. So, like, I've seen college kids slash high school kids working at like a place where something doesn't work you like, even if someone's berating them, these kids are just like whatever they're like because they get shouted at by teachers and parents and whatnot.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay, this is a good point.

[Trevor Noah]

They go like. They don't even think of this as being part of their lives is what I think a lot of the time. Now, I'm not saying it's good to treat them that way, but I've noticed a lot of them have a very like, water off my back ish vibe versus an adult who is being berated as if they are a child. Cause I think there's an overlap between how people treat young people.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Oh, okay. So this is how people. Status, distinction. You got me on this and I like this.

[Christiana]

I have a pitch. Make it like Teach for America. You know, Teach for America is the thing where like they get these kids that are probably going to work at McKinsey at some point and you go and work in a public school, but you have to have a degree first to get the job to be a teacher. If it's like Teach for America when you finish college or you finish. Make it a bit older so you do it around.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm. You can pitch yours. I'm telling you my one. I would. I'm just asking if you would be willing to consider a re up.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay, so here's what I'm saying.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why a re up.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I'm gonna give you a conditioned re up.

[Christiana]

If you do the re up, you may lose me.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'm just asking.

[Christiana]

This is democracy. Now, see, y' all are putting. You've got Christiana and she's.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just letting. Let me tell you why, Christiana, because I think, I do think it's invaluable for a young person to go into a space where they work in a front facing service job. Whether it's waiting tables, whether it's picking up calls, whatever it is, I do think that's good for them to interact with people and to understand this from that side. However, when you are young, I mean, you're so predisposed to sort of doing that because that's where society puts you. Anyway. Hey, can you grab me something from the thing? Hey, pick up that thing for me. Hey, so you're almost already in a service job. For the most part.

[Christiana]

I'll counter. Gen Z are like, are the generation that haven't had to do that thing that we did.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, okay.

[Christiana]

Like a lot of Gen Z have never did Saturday jobs and stuff.

[Trevor Noah]

That's that. But that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying remove it. I'm saying I just.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

You want a 42 year old.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Because for me, management job.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I mean. I'll tell you why. But remember, you. Okay, but I'm assuming Tracy, in your world, there's already child care. There's already all these. Because she's worried about time with her kids. And her kids. You said you got three kids. I'm assuming in Tressi's magical world, there's.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Child health care, all of that. I have built a feminist economy.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, there you go.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay. Yeah. Like we.

[Trevor Noah]

So this is a.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

We are killing and providing for social reproduction in any world where I'm in charge.

[Christiana]

Do you know why I like your addition to it?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

Because the thing that's drawing me to Tressy's idea is that you're saying that nobody is above service. That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

And you're saying, I don't care if you've gone out and worked in the background.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I mean.

[Christiana]

I'm into this thing again.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

Which I agree. I'm like, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. Because in what we've spoken about before, I think sometimes people don't think of it as a problem that needs to be solved. They think of it as a problem that they need to escape.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Christiana]

Oh, wow.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the issue that I have.

[Christiana]

Thank you. That's why I left England.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. That's what I mean. So people, we live in a world where people don't say, man, this neighborhood sucks, we've gotta fix it. They go, this neighborhood sucks. I gotta get out. Yeah, that's what people say. And then I go, like, I even feel like that with Americans. Whenever an election doesn't go the way they want, they go, I'm leaving this country. And then I'll often say to them, I'll go, yo, first of all, what a crazy privilege you have that you think you can just like go anywhere in the world whenever you want to because it's not going the way you like. Right. But also, where's your gusto to say, ah, that's terrible. I'm gonna try to be part of fixing it.

[Christiana]

Yeah, I understand.

[Trevor Noah]

Like. Cause then otherwise you just become like, you know, Those people who drive and throw trash out of their car everywhere. Cause that's all you're doing. I don't like this. Throw it away. I don't like this. Throw it away. No. But where are you in fixing it? So the reason I want people to re up the way I'm asking. Because I don't run this world. You do. I'm just asking this as a citizen of your world is because I think it would be nice for people to be reminded of the fact that. That they don't get out of it. They're just lucky enough to not be experiencing that part of it. So now you're a CEO.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

You're a top banking whatever. You're retired. You're whatever it might be. And at different stages of your life, you're re upping the experience that you will process differently because of your status in life.

[Christiana]

Oh, I like this. Because then people in the job corps will be like, intergenerational. Because then you'd actually have.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Which I do think is hugely important.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes. Okay. So I'm going to say something I rarely say. Trevor, you have improved upon my idea.

[Christiana]

I.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Well, this is not a man.

[Christiana]

Not a man.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I just want to know. There's a man at home right now who is very jealous of you and he is like, what?

[Christiana]

Jesse. Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I. Yes.

[Christiana]

Yeah. I agree. Okay.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Christiana]

Can we vote? So voting emphatically yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

One million percent yes.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Thank you.

[Christiana]

I won. This is like a miracle. I don't think we've had this before.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

I didn't think it would end with that line.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I won. It's not a competition.

[Trevor Noah]

We were in service. Trustee was. She roped us in with like. And, you know, as humans and don't forget. And as people. And as soon as we gave her the vote, she was like, ha, ha.

[Christiana]

That's why she has a genius Grant, right?

[Trevor Noah]

Yep.

[Christiana]

MacArthur.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what? If you winning means we get to live in that world, I will take it.

[Christiana]

I like it.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Thanks.

[Trevor Noah]

Congratulations. Your first attempt and a win.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

I feel amazing.

[Christiana]

That's great.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Because if I can convince the two.

[Christiana]

That's what I mean.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

If I can convince the two of you.

[Trevor Noah]

I think it's too. Can I be honest with you? I think it is actually an amazing idea that isn't hard to implement.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It really, actually.

[Trevor Noah]

And I think the upsides of it. I didn't even consider what you're saying about intergenerational.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Just old people having to work with young people and then women with men in ways that they wouldn't necessarily. Because now you also have. We have like gendered jobs.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

So great that it's not a gendered job.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

And then you just have.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

It was just your number came up.

[Trevor Noah]

And it would be nice for. And we talk about this all the time. What universities I think have lost because of how much money has defined university. We have fewer and fewer places and spaces where people of different class groups.

[Christiana]

Get to mix and political and mix organically.

[Trevor Noah]

And how nice would it be to have the heir of a billionaire working at the Southwest counter with somebody who comes from the inner city and they could get married. Yeah, they could be.

[Christiana]

This is true.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

This is the fear, by the way. This is the fear. Right. So for people, when you say this thing, that sounds perfectly logical and it's amazing and all of our values are embedded in it. Why wouldn't you be in favor of this? Honestly, it's that, like, I invested in a kid who should be able to, like, go on and inherit and da, da, da, da. And you are going to put them beside the cute poor kid.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, wow.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Anything could happen. But that's my point. Anything.

[Trevor Noah]

It's the villain. It's the villain in every Disney movie.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

That's right.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

But that's why I like it. Anything could happen.

[Christiana]

I love it.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, Tressy the genius and the winner. Yeah.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Thank you for that.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Tressie McMillan Cottom]

Thanks.

[Trevor Noah]

And that really was great. That's. That gave me a lot to think about. Thank you. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jodi Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of what Now.

[Christiana]

Sam.