Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People [VIDEO]

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Meet Eugene Khoza – One of My Favorite People"

What Now? with Trevor Noah featuring Eugene Khoza delves deep into a myriad of topics ranging from personal philosophies, experiences with loss, the essence of friendship, to reflections on religion and societal structures. Hosted by Trevor Noah and produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions, this episode offers an intimate and thought-provoking conversation between Trevor and his guest, Eugene Khoza.

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1. The Art of Podcasting and Authentic Conversation

Trevor Noah initiates the discussion by playfully questioning Eugene about podcasting, highlighting the behind-the-scenes authenticity that What Now? strives to present.

• Trevor Noah [00:59]: "Is that your podcast?"

• Eugene Khoza [01:03]: "So what made you decide to go into podcasting?"

The conversation underscores Trevor's commitment to maintaining genuine and unscripted dialogues, ensuring listeners experience candid interactions free from heavy editing or artificial constructs.

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2. Reflections on Religion and the Role of Church in Society

A significant portion of the episode explores the complexities of religion, particularly the function and impact of churches within communities.

• Trevor Noah [08:35]: "I think it's easy for us to dismiss things in general in life. Like, we always want to say good, bad."

• Eugene Khoza [07:37]: "Church has always been aspirational."

The duo discusses how religion has historically shaped societal structures, community bonds, and individual identities. They debate the duality of religious institutions as both sources of community support and potential tools of oppression. Eugene emphasizes the aspirational aspect of churches, noting their role in providing structure and community cohesion.

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3. Personal Journeys with Abundance and Employment

Eugene shares his unique experiences with various jobs, emphasizing how each role, even those now obsolete, contributed to his understanding of abundance and personal discipline.

• Eugene Khoza [26:07]: "Another defunct job. I worked at CNA, and my job was to mend the magazine counter."

• Trevor Noah [30:20]: "And how many of us can truly say that we have exercised our choice to end a thing when we wanted to?"

Eugene recounts his early jobs at car parks and CD stores, illustrating how these roles taught him valuable life lessons about money, discipline, and the transient nature of employment. He highlights the concept of abundance, inspired by his mother's practices, which instilled in him a resilient and purposeful approach to life’s offerings.

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4. Coping with Loss and Grief

A poignant part of the conversation delves into Eugene's personal experiences with loss, contrasting his ability to process grief with Trevor's more recent confrontation with it.

• Eugene Khoza [36:27]: "I have things that I love that I have lost."

• Trevor Noah [41:12]: "When my grandmother died... I was crying like I've never cried in my entire life."

Eugene discusses his approach to handling loss, viewing grief as an extension of regret and emphasizing the importance of processing emotions proactively. He shares the profound impact of losing his son and how it reshaped his relationship with his daughter, reinforcing the idea of living in the moment and valuing present connections.

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5. Philosophy on Life, Purpose, and Energy

The conversation transitions into broader philosophical musings about life's purpose, the nature of existence, and the concept of energy as a fundamental element of the universe.

• Eugene Khoza [60:29]: "Life is about us meeting our teachers. Life does not have built-in meaning."

• Trevor Noah [62:37]: "Everything that you're experiencing is energy."

They explore the notion that life lacks inherent meaning, and it is through interactions and experiences that individuals ascribe purpose. Eugene introduces the idea of "soul families"—groups of people who enter one's life to facilitate growth and learning. Trevor adds to this by contemplating the role of energy and reflection in human experiences, suggesting that relationships and actions are methods through which the universe learns and evolves.

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6. The Dynamics of Friendship and Mutual Growth

Trevor and Eugene reflect on their enduring friendship, acknowledging how their differing perspectives and passions have fostered mutual growth and understanding.

• Trevor Noah [54:10]: "But the last one, to your point, the most important one, was even us, Ryan, if you think about it, like comedy."

• Eugene Khoza [74:18]: "And in the car, we know that we play music in the background. And I've always criticized your music choice, but it allows conversation."

Their friendship serves as a cornerstone for the conversation, illustrating how diverse interests and mutual respect can lead to profound personal and professional development. They discuss how their interactions have been instrumental in shaping their approaches to comedy, life decisions, and personal philosophies.

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7. Embracing Change and the Impermanence of Life

Both hosts delve into the inevitability of change and the importance of embracing endings as part of life's journey.

• Eugene Khoza [105:28]: "You're still healthy."

• Trevor Noah [107:52]: "And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing."

They discuss the concept of non-attachment, drawing parallels with Buddhist principles, and emphasize the significance of saying goodbye while the subject is still present to avoid future regrets. Trevor shares his emotional experience of leaving The Daily Show, highlighting the challenges of choosing to end a significant chapter in life and the profound emotions that accompany such decisions.

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8. Concluding Thoughts: The Essence of Meaning and Connection

In the final segments, the conversation synthesizes their shared insights on life's purpose, the importance of meaningful connections, and the continuous journey of personal growth.

• Eugene Khoza [116:41]: "Nothing of all. But we have memories."

• Trevor Noah [117:26]: "This is dope. Thanks, Eugene."

They conclude by reaffirming the value of their memories, the lessons learned from each other, and the importance of maintaining childlike wonder and openness to life's experiences. Their dialogue serves as a reminder of the intricate balance between pain and joy, the role of intentional actions in shaping one’s destiny, and the enduring impact of genuine friendships.

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Notable Quotes:

• Eugene Khoza [36:34]: "I immerse myself in the feeling and then let the feeling pass through me."

• Trevor Noah [71:29]: "Pain is real. Suffering is a choice."

• Eugene Khoza [74:10]: "Painful."

• Trevor Noah [84:03]: "There are things that you've always had that you never put time to it."

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This episode of What Now? with Trevor Noah offers listeners a deep dive into personal philosophies, the significance of authentic relationships, and the profound ways in which individuals navigate life's complexities. Through heartfelt anecdotes and thoughtful exchanges, Trevor and Eugene Khoza provide valuable insights into living a meaningful and connected life.

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

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[Eugene Koza]

So what made you decide to go into podcasting?

[Trevor Noah]

Decide to go into it? Is that your podcast?

[Eugene Koza]

Is that your podcast voice?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm gonna have to edit around all of you. Jeans vak.

[Eugene Koza]

Okay, cuz.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you do? How do you do subtitles on the podcast. Any V that you say, I'm gonna just throw in an American guy's voice there. So you'll be like. But ep. And then instead of like the guy or something, then he'll be like, Epstein, he did it. And then I'll just tell. I'm just gonna tell the audience, every time you hear this voice, he spoke in another language. And I didn't want to lose the authenticity of the conversation, so I didn't. I didn't edit Surrounded.

[Eugene Koza]

So there you go.

[Trevor Noah]

But I. I had.

[Eugene Koza]

That's funny.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I. Because you have to do subtitles. But I want you to know that it's subtitles.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

What I mean, you see, is what now with Trevor Noah. This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen. As you guys probably know, I love bedding. And not just because I like to sleep in. I just feel like, you know, the right bedding makes you feel like you start the day right and you end it perfectly. The soft sheets caressing you. Ah, that cotton cooling you down or warming you up. That's good cotton, my friends. That's great cotton. I love my bedding. And I've been a fan of Brooklyn for quite some time. I think it's maybe been a year or so since I got a Brooklyn and comforter. And their products are just so reliable. They're reliable and they feel great. And I've come to think of them as part of a key part of my home. As spring hits, I find myself traveling more and having really great blankets and bedding that instantly make me feel relaxed. When I come home is so much more important. Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online at brooklinen.com that's B R-O-O-K-L-I N-E N.com and check out their anniversary sale happening now for a limited time. This episode is brought to you by Uber. You know that feeling when someone shows up for you just when you need it most? Well, that's what Uber's all about. Not just a ride or dinner at your door. It's how Uber helps you show up for the moments that matter. Because showing up can turn a tough day around or make a good one even better. Whatever it is, big or small, Uber is on the way. So you can be on yours. Uber on our way. Whenever you want more water, just. Just do something natural. Oh, would you like some water, Eugene? Oh, thanks.

[Eugene Koza]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Oh, yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

This is the awkward part, how. How you start a conversation.

[Trevor Noah]

It's the worst part of everything. Why don't we start with a prayer? This is actually why our grandmother started meetings with prayers.

[Eugene Koza]

Oh, yeah?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, because it's to cut the awkwardness, because now you're gonna. You can't just come together and be like, your son has a drug problem and your husband is cheating. If you start with a prayer, then it opens up.

[Eugene Koza]

But it was also a township power move, because everyone here will know whose house this is, because you can't lead a prayer.

[Trevor Noah]

You can't lead a prayer at somebody else's house. No, when you pray. When you pray in a South African household.

[Eugene Koza]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

First of all, like, I don't know if your grandmother did this. My grandmother used to give her address, and she used to give, like, where she's from and her name and everything. No, really? My grandmother would do that. She'd be like, Francis Noah. And then she'd be like, what?

[Eugene Koza]

A location.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Who you are, where you from, whatever. And I remember I asked her once, I was like, why are you doing this? And then she was like, why do I assume he knows where I am? Yeah, she said, I. She said, trevor, I. I must just assume that God is always listening to me. That's not fair. And if you think about it, most South African, like, prayer in general, I think is very, like, considerate of God. It's very much like, we know that you're doing stuff and we know that, like, you know what I mean?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. But I think because of missionaries, we never, as black people, thought that God is with us. God was brought to us, so we always have to identify ourselves and also separate ourselves from the non believers.

[Trevor Noah]

It's funny now that you say the missionary thing.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I actually think a lot of that was real. Is that like. Cause think. I always think about this. I go like, imagine being a black person anywhere on the continent. Right. These people come with religion, Right. And then they tell you that the reason things are going bad in your life is because you don't have this. This God in particular, because there was religion. There were different religions all over the continent, all over South America, all over these places. They would force, you know, the native people that. They would force them to buy goods from them that nobody else wanted to buy at predetermined prices. They would say they would do the work of, like, donkeys and mules and all of that stuff. But the main thing was they also came in with religion. So everywhere in the world, I can see this vibe where people have come in with religion saying to you, hey, all these bad things that are happening to you are because you don't worship God. And then it must have been weird because the natives are like, you are the bad thing that's happening to us. They're like, yes, exactly. If you had prayed and you have penicillin, this wouldn't be happening to you.

[Eugene Koza]

But I thought you didn't need penicillin because you can pray.

[Trevor Noah]

And this is.

[Eugene Koza]

Go put on clothes. It's not cancer time yet. But also churches in the township, that's where you would see family structure. Yes. That's where you'd see people dressed up nicely because parents used to live very early. So you never see them wearing nice clothes, except for on a Sunday.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And then also cars as well. You'd see your principal or the. The local doctor, they would park their cars. So church has always been aspirational. I. I don't think anything has changed from back in the day to now. And also missionaries offered people to go to university. Nelson Mandela was that beneficiary. So a lot of people that went and played cricket and went to school because of churches. So a lot of people are very conflicted when it comes to religion and this.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And this topic, because somehow they benefited from it. Now they can't separate themselves from the lies of it as well and the oppression of it as well. But people in other countries who are not part of the system of going to that. Because if you think of a church, such a small building for a big community, so it's already on its by merit. It already is an exclusive club of people. The believers. There's the believers that are believing in proxy. There's a believers that are dedicated in coming here and giving money and dressing up and showing up. A place for people to gather once a week to come and say what they need to say. So, Tina, the organization of it ended for us when church ended, but for people in power, it kept on continuing the whole week through because people run the church. Run the church. They don't have other jobs. The believers have other jobs.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

The Pope's job is to run the church. Yes. The other ones for them to go and collect money and come back and give it back to the Pope.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm conflicted when it comes to church because I think you love church.

[Eugene Koza]

I. Yeah, I love churches. I don't love church.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. But I. So, you know, when I look at what we're experiencing in the world today, there's no denying that church and religion is responsible for a lot of. I mean, you name it and label it, right? Pain, conflict, what, what, what, what, what, what, what? Right. Birth control, you name it, whatever. But when I look at what people, I can't help but wonder how much worse it's going to get when church falls away. So go to any thriving European country. Church is gone now. When I was in the Netherlands, all the churches that used to be churches.

[Eugene Koza]

Are the Airbnb now. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

They've just turned into other things.

[Eugene Koza]

Really?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. It's like there's a restaurant or this is something. It's just. It's not a church.

[Eugene Koza]

So cathedrals are gone?

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no.

[Eugene Koza]

It's all.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not a church. Churches are dying. In fact, funny enough, in the US you know that story, you know, when Trump was saying, like, hey, the Haitians, they're eating dogs, they're eating cats, blah, blah, blah, that whole thing. So they went to that part of Ohio and they interviewed people, and not only were they saying that the Haitian immigrants have revitalized the local economy, they went to the church and then the pastor said the church was about to die. He said the church was dead. And now because of the Haitians, the church is a thing again and it exists. And they come there and they use it and there's a congregation, and now the church makes money and they can be a community hub again. Like, it's. So that's why I say I'm conflicted. When it comes to church. Cause I think it's easy for us to dismiss things in general in life. Like, we always want to say good, bad. Yes, but to your point, I can't think of. I can't think of a place that is responsible for more community and connection than a church. Because a church, you didn't need money to come to it. As we live in a world where more and more clubs are predetermined, you know, like race, class, all these things. Religion was one of the few things where you could opt in. You could walk in off the street and say, I want to be part of your club. And the person would be like, yeah, you're part of the club. No, like, where do people connect for free with other humans on the Internet. Yeah, but that's not connecting.

[Eugene Koza]

100% is connecting, bro.

[Trevor Noah]

That's not connecting.

[Eugene Koza]

You know how you mentioned that's not connecting?

[Trevor Noah]

You think the Internet is connecting?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, what level of connection?

[Eugene Koza]

You know how many times I've spoken to you on WhatsApp, which has five red airtime.

[Trevor Noah]

But imagine if we met on WhatsApp. It wouldn't be the same. No, I'm saying if we met on WhatsApp, but we have a couple of.

[Eugene Koza]

Times no men met.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm saying if our initial. Our initial introduction as human beings was on WhatsApp, it wouldn't be.

[Eugene Koza]

This would be a video call right now. If we had met on WhatsApp, this guy. I think where religion and church is concerned, and I hear your point about it, almost feels like as humans, we need structure.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And I remember days when my parents were not at home. Well, my dad was always not at home. But when my mom was not at home, I would have the most amount of fun. When I was the youngest, I used to think, I need this woman here. But as soon as she said, there's food in the fridge, you know where the TV remote is, have a good time. And I'm gonna be gone for eight hours. I was like, can you leave sooner? Is the overtime there? Because in my world, that's when I realized I don't actually need someone to tell me what to do. I learned that very early. So some people need structure and some people don't. But I think also people are deep and steeped in religion, have abdicated their responsibility to be good people to someone else, to a higher power. So when they go to a pastor, when they go to their reverend, and when they speak to God on their behalf, they feel like they don't have to Be good people. They can always ask for forgiveness. But I feel like if people who go to church took that same mentality that they have for that hour and a half at church and actually spread around in real life every day, day to day, the world would be a better place. Because I think love should be preached more than religion. I don't think someone should tell us Jesus died on the cross for all of us to be here and then it ends there.

[Trevor Noah]

Look, I don't think you're wrong, but stories help. Like, stories just help. So if you say to somebody, sacrifice is the most powerful thing you can do, someone's like, okay, what do you mean by that? I think there's something really powerful in someone saying, hey, man, this stranger that you don't know died for you and your sins. There's a deep gratitude that comes with that.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, but the Bible is a big book of suffering. Yeah, it's always someone, my life is.

[Trevor Noah]

A big book of suffering.

[Eugene Koza]

You see? So it's all about someone did something and then found redemption. Someone did something and then found redemption.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene Koza]

There's never someone just having a good time.

[Trevor Noah]

There's lots of people having a good time in the Bible who Lot's wife.

[Eugene Koza]

Turned into Salt Job, who, because she looked back, Job whose investments were tarnished and then he had to. Who? Show me one person in the Bible who had a good time who was someone. People were in the bellies of the whale. People were kicked out of Eden. Someone was asking, they were having a.

[Trevor Noah]

Good time before they were kicked out of Eden.

[Eugene Koza]

Someone had to go, it's me.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but. Okay, so what are you saying? You want the Bible to show me then a TV show where nobody suffers?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, but this is.

[Trevor Noah]

This is entertainment.

[Eugene Koza]

But where are the good times in the Bible?

[Trevor Noah]

No, there's lots of good times.

[Eugene Koza]

Where?

[Trevor Noah]

There's lots of good times. There's lots of good times. King David had good times until what happened? Until he died.

[Eugene Koza]

What did King David do?

[Trevor Noah]

Well, I mean, he killed Goliath. That was his journey of becoming David the king.

[Eugene Koza]

So he was a white, Was a wise king.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, he was a wise king. But then he also. He was the one who killed the guy's, the woman's husband. Right. So he was having a good war.

[Eugene Koza]

And put him in the artillery.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but he was having a good time. But he was having.

[Eugene Koza]

But was the wife having a good time? Did the husband have a good time? Did the extended family. Eugene, the funeral cover.

[Trevor Noah]

So, okay, now let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Which TV show has people having a good time?

[Eugene Koza]

The Apprentice. No, I'm joking. No, but seriously, no one's having a good time.

[Trevor Noah]

I hear what you're saying, but I mean, like, if you're telling stories, There is no story that is worth listening to. If it's just like, I went there, what I wanted to happen, happened.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I came back and everything is great. That's not a story.

[Eugene Koza]

So then every sermon in church, obviously picking from this book, and they decide maybe we are going to preach about Job.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene Koza]

There's going to be how Job suffered and then how you suffering right now and how you can end your own suffering. By doing what? By praying it away.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

Cuz Job did not pray away. So I feel like God said to him, who are you to question me?

[Trevor Noah]

But I feel like here what's happening.

[Eugene Koza]

Is then he was like, I feel.

[Trevor Noah]

Like you trying to get me now to defend religion.

[Eugene Koza]

No, no, no, not at all.

[Trevor Noah]

But.

[Eugene Koza]

But I'm trying to get you to defend the characters in, in the Great Book of O. I mean, so what I'm.

[Trevor Noah]

But it's fine. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter what the book is.

[Eugene Koza]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Even if we talk about the wizard of Oz. Right. I don't need. No, but really talk about the wizard of Oz. You've got three hours. I don't need. I don't need Dorothy to be real. I don't need the Tin man to be real. I don't need the lion to be. But these are the concepts.

[Eugene Koza]

That's the Wicked Witch of the West.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. If someone wrote me a textbook about courage, about like, decency, about, like, then what. But you remember it when it's a story, you connect to it differently. You understand it. Dorothy goes on a journey. You get what I'm saying? Like, all of these characters go on a journey. And so I think I hear what you're saying and I agree. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to do for themselves what they require another to do for them. But I don't think that's fundamentally what makes us human. I think humans need that so that you as Eugene may not need somebody to tell you what to do. Maybe in one or some aspects of.

[Eugene Koza]

Your life, not in all.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but then there'll be some places where you find there's a deep reward that comes from somebody guiding you. And that, that for me is the good of churches. So like when a church. When a church is run?

[Eugene Koza]

Well, yes.

[Trevor Noah]

When a church is not.

[Eugene Koza]

Like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, when a church Is not like the minister having a private jet and the congregation starving. I'm saying when a church is run well, it really just is a community center where people come together, they share, like, an idea of problems. They talk about how there's something on the other side. But, yeah, it's group counseling.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, it's group counseling.

[Trevor Noah]

So why are you being so difficult when you know what it is?

[Eugene Koza]

I think it's a podcast.

[Trevor Noah]

You see what you just did now? You just did the Bible to me. You could have just come in and made it good times, but you brought suffering, you brought strife, you brought pain. Why did you do that?

[Eugene Koza]

My life trumped my thirst.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man.

[Eugene Koza]

I wanted to do them both at the same time.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man. Oh, my son.

[Eugene Koza]

Burn.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, wow.

[Eugene Koza]

That's what you get.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man, I'm burnt.

[Eugene Koza]

What were you doing?

[Trevor Noah]

I forgot that I could get this burnt. I was playing. I was playing pickleball.

[Eugene Koza]

Any difference between pickleball and. Because I've heard you speak, you. And I went to go play pedal ball for the first time.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, pedal ball.

[Eugene Koza]

I worked myself in the face.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the problem with paddle ball is people hit themselves. So. Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

Oh, it's a thing. And so.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Why did you tell me this that day?

[Trevor Noah]

I didn't know until you started. You were the first person who let me know. This was a night, a trend. You know what I mean? So paddle ball is squash mixed with tennis, and then pickleball, I would say is table tennis mixed with tennis.

[Eugene Koza]

So is the racket smaller?

[Trevor Noah]

No, the racket is just different. It's like a flat paddle type thing. It's like. It's like a piece of polycarbonate or something. I don't know.

[Eugene Koza]

It's like a big. It's like a big table tennis. Oh, so that's where the similarities come in.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I would say that's the ball.

[Eugene Koza]

And the ball and the ball.

[Trevor Noah]

Like the way it, like, sounds. The way it moves.

[Eugene Koza]

It sounds.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, because it does like a. Oh, okay.

[Eugene Koza]

So when. Oh, and it hits the.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but the pedal has more of like a. By the way, if you want to buy my new album, Sounds of Record Sports, you can follow. You can find the link in the description.

[Eugene Koza]

Were you playing pickleball?

[Trevor Noah]

So we were playing this. The only. The only time that people could come together with their schedules was at, like, 10, 11, and then the UV index was 10. I just learned about UV indexes, by the way.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So the UV index was 10.

[Eugene Koza]

10.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And then I just got, like, a burn around My, you know.

[Eugene Koza]

So the people that you're playing with, they were only free at around 10 in the morning?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it just happened to be. Normally we played like when the sun is setting to.

[Eugene Koza]

All of of your friends that you play pickleball with have jobs?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene Koza]

What do they do? What's the.

[Trevor Noah]

You want everyone's job.

[Eugene Koza]

The one who are there pick up.

[Trevor Noah]

There's a lot of people. You want everyone's jobs. Someone works in marketing, another person works in, I don't know, the finance industry. Another person's unemployed. Another person works in advertising, another person works in, I don't know, trading or something. Another person works on radio, another person is a lawyer. Another. How, how far must I go with this?

[Eugene Koza]

How many were you? 10 or so?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

So you all coordinated. That was a yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You must come and join. You'd love it.

[Eugene Koza]

I know you'd love it. Do you find it weird when you are hanging around with. Because you know how we grew up. It's not like after we finished metric grade 12.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

It's not like we went to university and studied a degree and then we went into the job market and gained experience. When you look at the friends that you have, let's say the group that you're playing pickleball with and you like, when are you now you're a lawyer, advertising, whatever. They've put in years into this career that they have and they're now asking someone, can I not be around 10 with my friend and do fun things which they actually really do enjoy. Do you, do you look at your friend? Cuz it happens to me when I still used to have friends with jobs and I'd look at them and I go, I hacked the system because I, I, I don't understand how they do it when, when you hang out with them, how do you pretend to be normal? Because in that situation you are not normal. You're the one. You could have done this at six. No, but we, we're all normal, Johnny. Because.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I think of it this way. I know what you mean. Yes, but I think of it.

[Eugene Koza]

Please tell the audience how you know how I mean it.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay?

[Eugene Koza]

Because I don't want to be the only guy who said it. No, because we all know.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but when you're with friends, with.

[Eugene Koza]

Friends, when they start talking about David Orders, you're like, hey. Or contract renewals, you're like smoothie.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so on the one side, yes, being a comedian or being in any type of career where there is no boss slash job, slash firing and Hiring, slash yes, is weird because you're right. There's nothing that forces you to go somewhere, per se. And there's also nothing that guarantees you anything, per se. So there's no payday when you work in comedy. There's no, oh, it's that time of the day.

[Eugene Koza]

That's a guarantee.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but what I mean is there is none. And there is, like, it's. When is it coming? When is it not coming? How is it coming? How is it not? Right. But I don't know, if you think of you as being the business in a weird way, you do become more normal. I think when I meet people who run their own businesses or their own little companies or their own whatever thing. Yeah, we feel the same. Because you work as much as you want to work, and then your work is generally directly tied to, you know, how much money you make, generally.

[Eugene Koza]

But just like me, you have friends that are in business and then you have friends that are employed.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Do you feel like your code switch when you're with the two? What's the difference between the two?

[Trevor Noah]

No, actually, you know what? I think one of the. One of the things that freed me the most was the more I spent time with professionals, the more I realized.

[Eugene Koza]

How much they're employed.

[Trevor Noah]

No professionals. Like, you know, like, I studied law and I studied accounting, and I studied, like, those kinds of people. The more I realized that most people are just winging it in life.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Genuinely?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes, Genuinely.

[Trevor Noah]

Genuinely? Genuinely. I think one of the worst things that ever happened to me in life is I've gotten to meet, like, some world leaders where I go, like, oh, boy, we're in trouble in the world. Cause we assume that most people's positions come with a certain aptitude and expertise that. That's applicable to everything. But we do most people, right?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes, absolutely. You're right.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, Elon Musk is a good example. Elon Musk is the richest man in the world now, like, doubling. You know, what is it, like 400 million or whatever now? These days, the next person is 200 million. So, like, Elon. Yeah, no, sorry, 400 billion. Did I say million?

[Eugene Koza]

Okay, so just thinking small of yours, and they warn you about these things when we are sitting.

[Trevor Noah]

So Elon Musk, because of that, just, like, wanders into every space and is given the full latitude where nobody questions anything. So, you know, it's funny coming back to the Bible, actually. One thing I appreciate about the Bible is that it, if you read it properly, it does show you the complexity of the human being. Right. So in the Bible, there are good people who then go on to do terrible things and live like a horrible life. You know, in the end, there are bad people who do have a good moment and. But you see humanity in its full complexity is what I find. If you, like, read the Bible, right? So even the person that you go is a good guy, you go like, oh, this is a good person. Read the Bible and you're going to see there's parts of the story where you like, they did what with their son, they did what to their mom, they did what to their neighbor?

[Eugene Koza]

They did.

[Trevor Noah]

Then you're like, damn, I don't know if I can. I mean, I guess King David was good, but also, how could he do this? Right? And I think some of that thinking is necessary for the world.

[Eugene Koza]

So when. When you're with your friends with normal jobs and then you being. You're playing pickleball and then they tell you, I have to go pick up someone at 1, or when they say, hey, my boss is. Do you look away and do you. When they look at a kind of car park and go, yeah, that's nice. Is there a part of you that joins into. Yeah. Do you. Do you look at them and go, yeah, that's also nice. But because when you're not saying it's nice because you can't afford it or you can't buy it or you can't have it, you've probably driven it and enjoyed it. So I'm trying to figure out what. This is what I'm trying to figure out. Yeah, because that's what I struggled with. I'm saying when people with normal job, like now, when we're coming here, by.

[Trevor Noah]

The way, what jobs have you had in your life?

[Eugene Koza]

I worked at a car park.

[Trevor Noah]

Doing what at a car park?

[Eugene Koza]

There was like before there were pairs, you go tickets. I introduced that system with my friends, actually, at the mall in Pretoria. So there used to be a booth at the end, at the exit and entrance of every car park. You come in, there's a boom, you come out, there's a booth. So I used to take the ticket and go, oh, damn.

[Trevor Noah]

Was this your first job?

[Eugene Koza]

First. First job, yeah, when I was 16. So that's what I did. On weekends and school holidays, they give.

[Trevor Noah]

You the ticket, they pay.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the. How did you. 15 rand.

[Trevor Noah]

How did you feel when you saw your first automatic boom machine thing?

[Eugene Koza]

The pay. The pay on foot tickets system.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. When people could do it without you?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, I was happy.

[Trevor Noah]

Really?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. Because I was in Matric at the time. Then I was like, I don't need you. I'm out. And I left.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh.

[Eugene Koza]

But I was happy.

[Trevor Noah]

So there wasn't a part of you that was like, no, no, no. They took our jobs? No, no.

[Eugene Koza]

I was happy. But one thing, I always. The one thing that changed my life. Cause I worked. I started at the car park at the mall, and then when I reached Matric, I worked inside the mall.

[Trevor Noah]

What did you do in the mall?

[Eugene Koza]

I worked at a CD store when those things still existed.

[Trevor Noah]

Cd? Like music?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn. And then all your jobs are defunct.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. And I also have.

[Trevor Noah]

You're basically like the grim reaper of jobs.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. When I come in, you see Eugene.

[Trevor Noah]

Coming to the job, you must know it's over. I'm even warning you, in the future, if you see Eugene show up and be like, hey, guys, I'm not going to be working. You're like, this industry's on its way out because you just went for, like, defunct job after defunct job.

[Eugene Koza]

Another defunct job. I worked at cna, and my job was to mend the magazine counter. And then my job was to go there and tell people who are on dates while they're waiting for the movies to start to stop paging through the magazine. Let's go.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, you were one of those.

[Eugene Koza]

And then one day I called us.

[Trevor Noah]

One of those guys who was like, you're not allowed to read.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. And then he was like. I was like, no, but you're not allowed to read the magazine. He was like, whatever. If I go to another magazine, I was like, technically, you caught me, Elon. So that's what I did as well. So. But the one day that changed my life is I met. I met the guy that owned Brooklyn Mall, a guy called Mr. Watson. Okay. He used to come there once a week. He drove a Jaguar. His driver drove a Jaguar. And he would sit at the back, and his wife would be in a mink coat, even in the summer. And then one day, when they're entering the new system of pay on foot, and then he happened to be the guy next in line. And then I helped this driver. And then I saw him, and I remembered, I've seen this guy so many times. Then he asked me what my name was, and I told him. Asked me how old I am. I said, yeah. He's like, so you do this every day? I'm like, no, no, not every day. Only on holidays and weekends. And I said, what do you do? The audacity. My manager was behind me going.

[Trevor Noah]

And.

[Eugene Koza]

Then he said, no, I business, but I live and I do things and I blah blah, blah. Then I said, yeah, I want to do what you do. I want to come to the mall during the week for no reason. Then he said, if you want it, you can do it.

[Trevor Noah]

I hate it when rich people say that.

[Eugene Koza]

And then I only found out later in life when I worked inside the mall that that was him. Cuz now he was inside the mall. Remember I was in the park when I first met him. Now I got a job inside the mall. Then I met him. And everyone was just shop owners were always happy to see him. The restaurant, hers were always happy to see him. Then there's the guy that owned the mall. And I think that was my first real realization of what being loved and being powerful, that combination, what it meant. He was very powerful man, but he was loved. People loved him. And I think there was a side of Landlord. Yeah. That he also loved them because he didn't have to be there. And that was a principle I took throughout my life. And I've spoken to you about this before. I said I only do things that I love. I only hang out with people that I like. I don't go out to force a lesson of pain on myself and try to test how far my patience can go with something I don't enjoy.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

So I'm only at places where I feel I'm wanted. I'm also at places where I feel like I want to be. And that was only from that interaction twice with this man who I've never met again.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Eugene Koza]

So I, I like that you.

[Trevor Noah]

And not in like a dismissive way.

[Eugene Koza]

No, absolutely.

[Trevor Noah]

But I, I love that you formed such a positive idea around this human being knowing the little that you did.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. That's what I want to take away from him.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but I'm saying like that's a beautiful thing. Cuz this person you met, you met them twice.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And that's what you took from them.

[Eugene Koza]

That's all I took from them. Because I realized how much power there was. Because also I started seeing it around. Because obviously if you work in a CD store, people come there to come buy music, but also to buy time so they hang around. So when I would see people at the mall at 11 in the morning, I would like, what do you do that allows you to be at the mall at 11? I want to do that. So it became my quest to come to interview people while they're they're buying their CDs. Or listening to.

[Trevor Noah]

What was it about the mall that.

[Eugene Koza]

You were so abundance.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

Everything is there. You don't go to the mall to window shop. People go to the mall to look at things that they like and they can just buy them or they just go to hang out with people that they like. A mall was a gathering place. It was obviously, obviously 20 years ago.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Are you sad that malls are dying now?

[Eugene Koza]

To an extent, yeah. I go to malls. I like going to malls. I like walking at malls. I go to Mall of Africa all the time. When I go to a new place, I go to a mall just in America I haven't gotten a chance to go to because I like Central park more. So I walk around and go to churches. But I like malls. I, I like the feeling of abundance. I think that was my first glimpse of it. I. When I was working at the mall, I knew at the end of the month what I wanted to do with my money. And I was go to the mall. No, no. Want things I, I'd see at the mall. Yeah. I knew what, what sneakers I wanted. I knew what headphones I was going to buy with my money. I, I always enjoyed the feeling of abundance. But also it taught me a certain discipline in life that just because it's there doesn't mean you must take it. Sometimes you just have to wait. Sometimes you can just walk past it. Sometimes the idea of being around it is even better than owning it. I could go into a sound system store and just listen and just have a good time. I didn't have to take it home.

[Trevor Noah]

And they would come and say, sir, please, please, you can't be listening.

[Eugene Koza]

Please, please.

[Trevor Noah]

So I remember me, I was reading magazines in your store and remember what you told me?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think that came from how you grew up? Like, what was it about, about abundance that, that connected with you in that way? Because you didn't grow up with abundance.

[Eugene Koza]

As cheesy as that sounds. It was my, my mom. My mom used to. She was a nurse. She's retired now. She had four kids. I was a third one. What she would do every month end was she would come to school and pick us up. Pick one up. So we had a roster. So every month end, one child gets a turn to go to town with her.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh.

[Eugene Koza]

So yeah. But she made a point to come before break at school, go to a principal's office.

[Trevor Noah]

Did your mom have a car?

[Eugene Koza]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. That. No. Because I was wondering why one and I was like, damn, this is a crazy system.

[Eugene Koza]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

No so you're getting in a taxi?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes, that's why she has to pick one. No, no. Also it's what's gonna happen in town when we get there.

[Trevor Noah]

What's gonna happen?

[Eugene Koza]

You'll see.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, sorry.

[Eugene Koza]

And then she would come to school and then talk to the principal. And then I'd be like, there she is. Then she'd come to my class.

[Trevor Noah]

Would you know who she's coming to fetch?

[Eugene Koza]

Of course it's me.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but you said there's a roster and you.

[Eugene Koza]

No, no, we're not at the same school at the same time.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay. Okay. Got it, got it.

[Eugene Koza]

So she'd come.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought your mom like was doing like a lottery system all at the same school.

[Eugene Koza]

And then your mom would walk in, just see your head past those big windows at school. And then they be like, eugene, your mom is here. And I'd be like, oh man, my mom take my backpack and we're out. And then we'd get. Then we'd high five each other in the passage there. Then we'd get in a taxi and then off we go to town. Then when we go to town, the first thing she did was we go to the park. Then we sit at the park. And then she'd say, think of anything that you want that you want us to buy today. Think of anything that you want. Then I'll be like a pie. It's dear. Yeah, I want that one better. Ninja tightly. Yeah, I want that. Okay, I'm done. So you're done. Sharp. Then we'd go and buy all the things that I wanted. And then I realized how many things I passed going to the things that I wanted that were insignificant at that point. Then you buy all the things you want. And then now we're doing groceries. Now we get to the nuts and balls of it. Now she buys groceries for the whole house. Then what she used to do for all of us was she would buy a slab of chocolate for all of us and a tub of 1 liter ice cream for all of us that was ours to do as we wanted. So that's what she did. She showed me abundance. And my mom had a concept. When it's finished, it's finished. I've never struggled with loss, with loss of anything, especially finances. You've known we've. We've done things with cars and had fun and made money and lost money and do whatever. I've never struggled with that concept at all because she taught me, when it's there, it's there. When it's not, it's not. But as long as you're here, you can always make it again. But just like you pass the things that you didn't want at the store to go to things that you wanted, those things will always be there. So I've. I've learned abundance from her. And what she would do is she would take the rest of the month's money and give it to you and then say, when. When someone needs something, they're going to come fetch it from you. So you understand that it's there, but it's there to be used. So the value of money for us was it buys bread, It's a taxi ride for someone. It's a school thing that popped up out of nowhere. It's this, it's that someone coming to borrow money from the house, it's that. So the. The value of money was never to look at it as a thing that exists to make you feel good. It was there to help facilitate things that just might come up in life. Some things are small, you end up with more money. Some things are big, you end up with less money. But it was there. So she would go. If it was there, when it was needed, it did its job. So I look at life like that, and I'm glad for those lessons in life because I've had a chance to look around. And that's why I was asking you about friends with employment. I was not making fun of them at all because I have friends like that as well who would say I have a day off. A friend of mine on our way here called me, but I didn't answer his phone. But he sent me a text before saying, do you want to go ride in the mountain tomorrow? Because I'm day off. But I'm like, my life doesn't work like that. I can go ride any day. But if you have to think of it like that, then it means your world is centered like that.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I think. I think both of them come with pros and cons.

[Eugene Koza]

No, absolutely.

[Trevor Noah]

So as much as you can say your life, you don't require a day off to do something. But the, the gift and the curse of it is that, like, freedom is hard work. I've experienced this, let's say, on, like, on a really flippant level. If I go on a vacation and everything is planned, I have a great time.

[Eugene Koza]

I know.

[Trevor Noah]

I know where I'm supposed to go. I know what time I have to be there. I'll go to the museum, then I go do this, Then I go to. I'M having a great time. I'm like, oh, wow. Because I'm not thinking. I'm not. And when you're not thinking, you don't make the wrong choice. When you don't make the wrong choice, you don't have regret. You don't feel. There's none of that. You don't go, did I do it or did I not do it? Right? And I think there's a little bit of that when you are employed versus if you are like doing your own thing. Is that when you are employed, there's a certain level of someone's telling you what you have to do on what day, by what time. And that's liberating in many ways. It's like having a personal trainer. It's liberating. Have you ever walked into a gym and just looked at the weights?

[Eugene Koza]

I don't go to gym.

[Trevor Noah]

But you've never walked into a gym.

[Eugene Koza]

Gym is kindergarten for people with regrets.

[Trevor Noah]

Is that a no or yes?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

You walked into a gym. Oh, man. So I. I get what you're saying. Well, I did. I did. But I didn't know that thing about. I didn't know that about your mom.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I. I knew that I knew that vibe with your mom. It's funny, I'm trying to think of, like, how I processed loss.

[Eugene Koza]

You think?

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, so, okay, help me understand this. Are you saying that you are not loss averse or are you saying that when you experience loss you like, whatever.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Both of them.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. I. I feel like my, My upbringing, my conditioning, and also the way I view life has made me survive loss better. I. I have things that I love that I don't use.

[Trevor Noah]

You have things that you love that you don't use?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

I have things that I love that I have lost.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

Both of those things are not with me currently. Or I can choose not to be using them or with them. Does it make sense?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

So I walk past my bike all the time in the morning.

[Trevor Noah]

I choose your motorbike.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

I choose. And sometimes I can go four months without riding the one. And. But it's there. But if I wake up one day and it's no longer there.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

The feeling of it not being there won't be horrible to me.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, damn.

[Eugene Koza]

Because I deal with it all the time. I look at my daughter, she turns 16 now. Started grade 11.

[Trevor Noah]

16 now?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. She's turning 17 in September.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, this is probably one of the reasons I don't want kids. They just make time, move Man.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

The only time I feel like time has moved.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Is when I think of how old people's children are. Dude, your daughter, to me is still like a five year old.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. Because you met me a year before she was born.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So to me, she's still.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. That five year old that you saw.

[Trevor Noah]

Smart five year old.

[Eugene Koza]

16. Yeah, 16. So she. I look at her and I look at how she thinks and how she processes things, and she's taught me that letting go is actually the best thing you can do. She. She's been with me, obviously forever.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And we've lived in different places, in different houses, and she's at different rooms and she's changed schools two, three times in her life. But the way she moves around the universe amazes me all the time. She looks at life as something that's going to happen anyway. She doesn't.

[Trevor Noah]

She looks at life as something that's gonna happen.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. She doesn't look at it as a thing that's gonna happen if she does something.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Okay, I understand what you mean.

[Eugene Koza]

So I. I've started to look at life like that. When I see something new and exciting, I move towards it. When I was at the parking lot, I walked around cars because I love cars. That was the best part of my job. When I went into the mall, I faced abundance. When it happened once a month when I was young or once after four months when my mom takes me to town. Now it happened every day. When I started doing comedy, I realized you can hang out with your friends and laugh all the time. We had more fun offstage than on stage. We would travel and then someone pays for it. You sleep in a hotel and someone pays for it. And then people would pay to hear me talk for 15 minutes and I would go back and I'll still have fun and time with my friends. So all of my jobs and my choices were all linked to my passions. I've never had a job I hated. I've never had a job that landed me in places I didn't want to be in. I've been fortunate in that way. I'm abundant in so many. Our friendship led me to so much abundance. I got to experience being in a private jet with you. I got to experience in the penthouse. And, man, I got experienced those things through you, through our friendship and our love for comedy and our pure natural gift that was just to stand in front of people and have a good time. So when I close my checking account every night, that's what I do. I look at the things and the people that I love. And I go, did they bring me closer to my passions and my joy and things that I would have never come close to had I not had these things? And I go, your job is done. So it's not different from the wad of cash my mom had. And then she said, if someone comes and needs something, take it from there. Don't ask too many questions. They came because there's a need, but they know that you have it. So I send everyone to you and I say, he has it. Go get it.

[Trevor Noah]

An interesting lesson to learn, so I.

[Eugene Koza]

Choose to do that.

[Trevor Noah]

We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. This episode is brought to you by mgm. If you love high stakes drama, Godfather of Harlem delivers. Academy Award winner Forest Whitaker returns as Bumpy Johnson, facing his deadliest battle yet for Harlem's future. When ruthless newcomer Frank Lucas arrives, everything changes as power shifts and new threats emerge. Will Bumpy forge an uneasy alliance with his enemies? Or will he stand tall as the undisputed Godfather of Harlem? Find out in the new season of Godfather of Harlem. New episodes streaming Sundays on mgm. This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Have you ever gotten sick on a very expensive, very non refundable family trip? Amazon One Medical has 247 virtual care, so you can get help no matter where you are. And with Amazon pharmacy, your meds can get delivered right to your hotel fast. It's kind of like the room service of medical care thanks to Amazon Healthcare just got less painful. I know that I'm loss averse.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, but I think I'm also lucky that I haven't lost much in life. Like, I realized this when. When my grandmother died. So it was a crazy realization. Yeah, I've never lost a loved one.

[Eugene Koza]

Was a huge loss.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I've genuinely never lost a loved one.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then I started thinking differently about everyone in my life who has because I was like, damn, this is for me. It was even like a. It felt like a slither of a feeling that another human being could have because my grandmother died at the age of 96. 96. 97. So, you know what I mean? In a weird way, I wasn't around for all of it, but, like, you have like 100 years to prepare, you know, like, we always think of 100 as this magical number. But I was like, we knew she was going and she was healthy till the day she died. Died in her sleep. The way you dream of going peacefully gone. Go to bed. Good night, everybody. See you Tomorrow jokes on you. There's no tomorrow. She was God. You know what I mean? But the feeling that I had was like I couldn't believe what I was experiencing. Like, the grief, the loss, all of that. So are you saying that you don't have that experience? You don't have that feeling?

[Eugene Koza]

I do, but I process it quicker because I know it was going to happen anyway, so it's my choice to live in it. So when it happens, I, I, I, I immerse myself in the feeling and then let the feeling pass through me. So what I used to do before I would let the things get stored in me, I had this huge anxiety when I was growing up of what's going to happen to me after school. And it ruined most of my high school life. Literally.

[Trevor Noah]

Literally after school, like every day you'd go, what's happening when the bell rings?

[Eugene Koza]

No, when school finishes.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, like school as a concept.

[Eugene Koza]

When high school finishes.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. When high school is done and I.

[Eugene Koza]

Look back and I have these gaps in my memory of what fun I could have had in high school had I not had that worry. If someone had a Christmas ball to show me how my life would have turned out, I would have enjoyed every moment of that school. It was the best time I've ever had. But I was too concerned, you know, I was, was worried about what's going to happen, because in my world, people who did well were people who were, who were educated, who were, who were successful, you know, who studied something and had gotten a job. So my chances were lower and lower and lower as I saw myself getting to grade 11 school. That I. Exactly. And then I knew that my chances of being successful. So when I was in a car park, I was like, I can be happy by proxy.

[Trevor Noah]

Huh?

[Eugene Koza]

I'm here. I'm looking at these fancy cars. I'm around them all day long. And I get paid to be here. I love music, I listen to music, and then I get paid to be here. I walk around the mall. I get paid to be here. I do comedy. I get paid to do this. I chose a path. It was either do the worrying and die or do what I love and just live. But I chose that because it was my only option. I had to learn the lessons and remember them from my mom. So I just carried them through.

[Trevor Noah]

So you're able to apply that to inanimate and animate objects?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So the loss of anything and anyone.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you process it the same, or is there a difference? Or give me an example of, like, something you've lost, like, a thing that you loved versus a person that you've loved. And then I want to understand, like, how you process it, or is it the exact same way?

[Eugene Koza]

The exact same way. Because remember, if I lose a watch that I loved.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And I wore every day. Right. Sentimental value. As I remember the things that I did to get the watch right, I remember the places I wore the watch in those memories are with me. So the watch is with me because I never wore it to my sleep. I never wore into a shower. So the watch is with me. When my son passed away, I also realized in the three months I spent the most amount of time with him to. Even the day before he passed away, it was just the two of us for a few hours. The last picture I took was when we were just together in a room.

[Trevor Noah]

How old was he when he passed? When he was three months.

[Eugene Koza]

Three months.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Eugene Koza]

So in. When I think of that loss, whether it's a watch or a loved one, I think of, what do I miss about not having this person around? Grief is. Is an extended phase of regret. Things that we never got to do with that person. I got to do all I could do at the time. The time that he had. Had I been absent for three months and he passed away in three months, I would have been so distraught because I would have nothing to miss. But now I miss him, the person that he was, because I knew him. If I lose my watch, I miss my watch. I don't miss the things that the watch did for me. It's an object. It told time. Another object can tell time. If it was about our money, I can buy another one. But him, I. There's no more time that I could have extended with him. It ran its course. I'm not dealing with guilt of something I did wrong or something I could have done better. But I was going, I wish we could do more. But when I look at my daughter, I go, we can do more. She's here now.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, wow.

[Eugene Koza]

Right? If I look at a watch, I go, there is. There are more watches. I can go buy another one. But I can't cry for things that never happened.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you think. How do you think that, like, affected your. How you are a father with your daughter after losing your son.

[Eugene Koza]

She became my parent. We have this running joke, her and I, where I say, in. In our life before this one, she was my mom, and then now I get to pay her back. But it looks like she still has to do it again. She was just a happy person. Every Time she, I would look forward to the day she comes back from school. Then she would high five me and tell me all sorts of stories. She had no time for my sadness. Like I would be like today, just like, let me tell you. Then she would go on and on. Then it became my exercise to remember her friends names because now I didn't want to be left behind in a story. And I was like, this person is laughing, she's smiling. And she only met her brother the day he passed away at the hospital when he was certified dead.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Eugene Koza]

So this kid who faced that, what I had, I had three months of seeing him because he was incubated, but he couldn't have contact because he was born too early. So obviously a child would have brought germs into the house so he couldn't be in the same room with her. So the only time he saw her was then. So I compared our losses and in, in retrospect, you must think of it this way as a sibling. She would have had more time with him than I would have ever had as a parent. Yeah, he would have outlived me. So she has never had that three months with him. But I had. So what right did I have to wallow in self pity when all I could be doing now is telling her about how great this person was. Because she's telling me about strangers at school and about how great they are and here we are. And then she was there teaching me how to be strong. She was my mom again with that word of cash, saying here, spend it on things that matter. And if someone comes and asks for it, give it to them generously. Don't ask questions, just share. She was that person for me and she still is for me. When I was walking down now to come into the car, she was like, do you have your phone? And I was like, yes. You have something for your lips? Yes. Do you have a power bank? Yeah. She was like, fit check.

[Trevor Noah]

There's a beautiful saying. I don't remember where I heard this. I think it was actually Esther Perel. And we're having this conversation and we're talking about like children and life and everything. And she said one of the most beautiful things ever. She said one of the most underappreciated aspects of having a child is that it forces you to forget yourself.

[Eugene Koza]

Oh, that's deep. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And I remember being like, wait, what do you mean? And she said no. She said, you take for granted that until you are responsible for the life of another human being or another creature, really the only Life you're responsible for is your own. And so you lived the most selfish of existences, whether you like it or not.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm hungry. I'm tired. I'm sad, I'm happy. I want to do this. I do not want to do this. It's only when you introduce another human being or living being into your life that you're responsible for that you have to. If you are any type of decent person, you neglect that.

[Eugene Koza]

Now you forego it.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you forego it. It's a bit of word. Yeah, you forego it. It's a different type of meaningful. And it's like a. In a weird way, it's a stupid thing, but I think of people when they get dogs. It's pretty crazy to say.

[Eugene Koza]

Totally understandable. Yeah. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because a person gets a dog and then now they have to go and walk the dog. They have to go outside. They. They have to. But in a weird way, they have to. Pushes them out of themselves. So there's a day you didn't want to go for a walk, now you're walking. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And, and, and I see that with people and their kids, especially people who have either learned the lesson or have had the opportunity to fully learn the lesson.

[Eugene Koza]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But they forget themselves and in a weird way then get to meet other versions of themselves that they forgot.

[Eugene Koza]

Life is about us meeting our teachers. Life does not have built in meaning. Life is meaningless. And you see that when you lock yourself in a room and do nothing. Everything else happened without you. Traffic happened, restaurants were open. Until you get out the room and you interact with the world, then meaning happens. Then you walked a long distance, then you ate this great thing, Then you played pickleball with your friends. So life has no built in meaning. We give it meaning. But what makes life interesting is we're here to learn lessons and we keep meeting our teachers along the way. And one of the reasons why I think our friendship, you and I, has endured so long, and it's actually almost the same age as my daughter's relationship, is because of your childlike nature, you look at the world with wonder. You don't look at anything as impossible. I remember one time you and I were driving somewhere and we were stuck in traffic and you said, eugene? And I said, yes, because that's how we talk to each other. He said, you know what we must do? And I said, what? Said we must buy a plane.

[Trevor Noah]

That sounds like me.

[Eugene Koza]

I said, eh. He said, yes, we must buy a plane. And I was like, planes are expensive. He said, yeah, yeah, but they're small ones. You know, you can buy a Cessna. You know what we can do? If four comedians come together and we put 100, 100, 100, 100. If we need to go somewhere, then we can just fly the plane. Then I was like, but what if we need to go different? He said, yeah, then we'll book shows, Then we can all fly in together. We can fly in, fly out, then we'll make it home again. You're like, yeah. Then I was like, okay. There are many times that you and I did things.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, we never did.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Just for anyone listening. But this was because we were very far from even the idea of buying a plane.

[Eugene Koza]

But fast forward 13 years later.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, I'm with you.

[Eugene Koza]

You see what I'm saying? So you've always had that. The day you immigrated to America, I remember I was at your house. You said, come over, and then I came. Then we played army of Two, and then you're like, oh, I have to go now. Then I was like, where are you going? You're like, I'm going to America. Then I was like, is it a restaurant? Can I come too? What's going on? You're like, no, no, I'm. Ah, snap. Then you packed your bag, you switched off the thing, and you're like, oh, you can have these games. I'm not gonna play them anymore. I was like, are you really leaving? You're like, yeah. Then I was like, but what time do you need to be there? Like, I need to be there 30 minutes ago. Then there you were in great tracksuit pants. You were gone. You went to go start a new life and a new career elsewhere. And I always looked at you, and I go, I was telling a friend of mine, when you first started to become prominent in American culture or in the American space, I said, this guy would have been successful even though he was a plumber. Comedy did not help him become successful. TV did not help him become successful.

[Trevor Noah]

Thank you, man.

[Eugene Koza]

With anything, it would have been fine because he just looks at things like a kid. He looks and he goes, tinkers. He opens at the back and he touches this thing with America. He was like, where's the most comedy clubs? Where's the most comedy? Narrow it down to a place. Okay, how many shows can I do? Okay, how many people can I see? Okay, how many, how many, how many, how many? How many? You look at things like that, and I always look at your life, and I go, if I was like you, I would have been where you are. If you were like me, you would have been where I am. The wonder and the beauty of how we are as two people is we're not alike. That's why you and I can sit and speak about everything but comedy. We speak about cars, we speak about life. So I'll always have time for a person who looks at life like that.

[Trevor Noah]

And I think we've both shared that. So it's funny. I think of when I think of comedy and how we shared was the same thing. We both had a deep love for the idea of this because what. What made comedy specifically unique at that time in South Africa was.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

It wasn't a thing.

[Eugene Koza]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Like a thing thing.

[Eugene Koza]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean? If you said to anyone in South Africa, your parents, your friends, anyone, I'm gonna be a comedian, I'm gonna do comedy. People like, what is that right? And there was like, a few people, not even a generation, a few people a few years ahead of us who were doing it, you know, the David Gows and the John Flismuses and all these. But it wasn't like a.

[Eugene Koza]

A long. It wasn't a thing.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it wasn't a thing. It wasn't, you know, a long history tradition. So what I loved was we were a ragtag group of enthusiasts, you know, like hobbyists. That's what we were doing when we were doing comedy were these people standing in a field with homemade airplanes and we're throwing them and being like, how far can yours go? So what I've learned is if you turn the wings like this, and if you get what I'm saying, and it's funny because I think you have kept that more than anybody I know. You might say I have. Childlike. Wanda, you are the most hobby obsessed person I know. I don't know anyone who's had more hobbies than you. Everything from trail riding, motorbikes, racing, race bikes on a. On a. On a track, shooting guns at a range.

[Eugene Koza]

Started golf.

[Trevor Noah]

Now you started golf. Wow. There we go. Golf. Then you went through, like a running phase. Like you were doing like 20 kilometers, 10 kilometers. Then you. I mean, now that I say it out loud, I feel like you're turning into a white person. This has been a long journey. I'm actually. Only now that I'm saying it, like, looking at it, I'm like, wait a minute, Euge.

[Eugene Koza]

When I look at what you're doing.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, boy. No, but you. But you.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, you and her taught me that adventure that's what it is. Go for it.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what it is. You've always been the adventure person.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. You show me that all the time. When I see you doing something, I'm like, adventure does pay off because you go on this world and you look.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but. No, no, but. Where we're different, though, is. And this is why I admire you. Where we're different is you.

[Eugene Koza]

It's an admiration contest.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And we'll see who wins. You. You. I think one thing that's always inspired.

[Eugene Koza]

Me about you myself from that competition. There's no admiration I hold for any of you.

[Trevor Noah]

And you know what, Ryan? That's what I love about you, is you don't need to compete with other people. That's why I admire you. And now it's time for today's Self Care Toolkit segment, brought to you by Amazon. Whether it's delivering medication to your door with Amazon Pharmacy or 247 virtual care with Amazon One Medical. Thanks to Amazon, Healthcare just got less painful. Okay, can we talk about comfort food when you're sick? Because I feel like that's when logic leaves the building. All logic. Like, you'd think being sick would make you eat something mild and healthy. No, no. For some reason, when I'm under the weather, I'm like, you know what sounds good right now? A giant plate of fries and three different kinds of sauce. You mix the sauce and it confuses the disease. I don't know. There's something about being sick that makes your cravings totally unhinged. Maybe. Maybe it's just me and it's different for everyone. For some people, it's toast and tea. I've heard. For others it's Mac and cheese or pho and ice cream. Yes, I've actually heard that ice cream with pho while coughing. I think part of it is just nostalgia. You know, maybe it's our brains wanting to feel better. And food is memory. You know that one soup your grandmother made or whatever your parents gave you as a kid when you stayed home from school? Maybe that's what it is. Psychological reward for sickness. So maybe it's not about the food making you better. Maybe it's just about making you feel better and that's just as important. Mmm. Mmm. So profound. Well, we hope you gave you some ideas for your self care routine. Today's Self Care Toolkit segment was brought to you by Amazon. Thanks to Amazon, healthcare just got less painful. You've always inspired me and you've always reminded me to focus on being successful at living Life, which is something that I think sometimes we forget as people. Cause I've always been good at living, work, you know what I mean? Like, I'm really good at that. Plumbing, electrician, you name it. There's literally. I remember someone once said to me, they're like, what would you do if you wouldn't do comedy? And I was like, I'm like, anything. I would do anything. Because. Because I'm like, yeah, anything. Something has to be done, you know? I remember my mom said to me.

[Eugene Koza]

One day, something has to be done.

[Trevor Noah]

Something has to be done.

[Eugene Koza]

I love that.

[Trevor Noah]

My mom and I, we were driving, I don't know, from church or somewhere. It was probably from church. We only really drove to church together. But we're in the car, and my mom said to me, she's, like, really angry, and she's like, look. Look at these. How can people be unemployed? And I was like, mom, what do you mean? How can people be unemployed sometimes? And then my mom said, there's always something to be done. My mom said to me, she said, you look in your life. She said, before you say there's nothing to be done, just go for a walk and look around you. There's something to be done. I was a teenager at this time, but I was like, mom, that's not true. Sometimes there's nothing. And then while we were driving, she said, okay, let's look on the street. What needs to be done? I was like, what do you mean? She's like, look at the street. What needs to be done? I was like, I don't know. And then she said, does that grass look like it's been cut? I was like, no. She's like, so clearly that needs to be done. She said, so if you go to that house and you say, let me cut your grass. And I said, yeah, but what if they don't pay me? She said, yeah, then you can still cut it, though.

[Eugene Koza]

It will be done.

[Trevor Noah]

It'll be done. And she said, and you'll go and you'll cut and you'll cut. And she said, eventually. Eventually, somebody's gonna pay you to cut grass. She said, go and look for things to be done, because there's always something to be done. The phrase my mom hated. And I still like, I actually have to, like, work on the opposite now is whenever my mom like my mom, the phrase she hated was, there's nothing to do. I have nothing to do. She's like, there's always something to be done. What do you mean? But what that meant was, it Meant that I've always been completely comfortable in work, in the doing, but the doing in one specific place. Yeah, but you have always shown me, like. I mean, first time I rode, like, mountain bikes in South Africa was with you. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. That day, like, we, like.

[Trevor Noah]

And I. And I think, funny enough, that's maybe one of the things that you blessed me with in comedy is had I not met you, because we. We literally started comedy, what, a week.

[Eugene Koza]

Apart, 100 in parallel universes, literally, you were there that day and I wasn't there. And I was there that day. You were not there, but literally a.

[Trevor Noah]

Week upon we started comedy in the same venue, in the same city, in the same country. Right. But I think the. The thing you blessed me with in comedy is you always reminded me to keep it as a hobby, like always. You've almost always been allergic to it being a job.

[Eugene Koza]

Mm.

[Trevor Noah]

In fact, every time people have tried to make it a job, I almost feel like you get, like, you. You get offended in a weird way. And had you not done that with me, I think I would have let comedy be a job. And then if you let that happen, oftentimes the joy and the wonder that you experience in the thing goes away.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. It's a have to.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it's a have to and not a want to.

[Eugene Koza]

Our job as humans, we have to tap into our DNA and remember why we are here.

[Trevor Noah]

Why do you think we're here?

[Eugene Koza]

To live and fix the things that we didn't do last time. I think our lives are a continuous journey. Our souls know why we're here. This body is just a vessel. We're just here to remember as time. And when we find passions and we find places that we're familiar with, but we don't know from where, it's because we've been here before. We're trying to remember. And that what lives, that's what makes life interesting for me. When I go to a place and I'm like, this is interesting. I'm like, I remember there must have been something great here that happened somewhere, sometime.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

That brings me back here again. And I live in that world of wonder. Where I go. I've been here before. I've done this thing before. That's why when I lose something, I'm like, I must have had it before. And I had it again. And it was time for it to go. So something can happen. Now I need to feel something. My job in this world, with this vessel, with this body, with all of the Friends. And the environments that it has brought me in is to feel something. If I feel happy, I know I'm feeling.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, it's so funny you say this. One of the most transformative thoughts I've ever experienced as a person was I was. I think I was in Sweden and I was on a mushroom trip, right? And you know, you. You having this beautiful experience connecting with yourself, connecting with others. But one of the things that really hit me was the idea of energy, right? And I'm not a woo woo person per se, you know, I'm not very spiritual. I think you're more spiritual than I am. No, no, I think you are. And in a good way. Like. And I think you remind me of that sometimes. Like, I can be very didactic. I can be very, you know, ironically, to go back to the Bible, it's like, you know, if you. If you look at the. The Trinity, it's like, yeah, there's. There's the mind, there's the body, and then there's the spirit. This thing that exists in a world that you can't really. You don't think it and you don't feel it, but it is, right? And. And the thought that I had was energy. Everything that's happening in the universe is energy, right? Like it's. But like actual, like even physics energy. I'm not saying like, ah, it's energy. I'm saying it's actual energy, right? Yeah, but I'm not saying.

[Eugene Koza]

But the album's still available.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't mean that sound effect. I don't mean. Not even dismiss it to that. But I'm good.

[Eugene Koza]

I get you.

[Trevor Noah]

And I was thinking to myself once, it almost feels like our purpose and our idea. And it's. What's funny that you just said that is to express the idea of what it means to be by being in relation to, you know. So I like. I think of like, light is a good example. I always find it crazy because physics is such a complicated thing. My brain, I really struggle to understand. I listen to it and I remember things, but I go, I don't understand it. But, like, one of the craziest concepts to me is the fact that I'm not seeing you. I'm seeing the light that is reflected off you, right? So when we see a flower, we're not seeing the flower, really. We're seeing the light that the flower is reflecting. And when you expand that sort of infinitely, you know, throughout time, you go, that is what we all are. What we all are is reflections of energy. And light that are. That is helping us to experience the thing that is happening. And then to your point, I remember thinking, huh? I was like, what if the idea of what we call God or this thing that we've all, you know, in different religions, different places, different whatevers we want to call it, what if it itself is trying to experience the thing? And that's why everything is.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean?

[Eugene Koza]

100%. It makes total sense. It's just that as people, we avoid that because it will now make us question everything that we are. The choices that we made, the people that we know, the places that we've been.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And I think of all of that as an experiment. Like, I go, so it's a giant experiment.

[Eugene Koza]

We're in a petri dish.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And someone is busy going, I think.

[Trevor Noah]

Of it as a giant experiment.

[Eugene Koza]

100% true. You know, it's 100% true.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, actually, I think of it like when scientists shoot lasers or they shoot, like, even a telescope, what you're doing is you're getting a reflection of something. Right. You're getting light from a far distance away, and you're getting information from it. And I wondered, like, we could literally be the lasers that are being sent to come back with information. So you driving the way you drove, in a weird way, I know this sounds crazy, but in a weird way, you're teaching the entire human race how to drive.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And then you eating. Like, I always go, I'm so grateful to people who ate certain foods and died so that I know which foods I can eat.

[Eugene Koza]

I think of it for pets. I'm like the first person that tried to tame a whale. A wolfie. Now we have puppies.

[Trevor Noah]

It's pretty crazy.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

By the way, have you seen.

[Eugene Koza]

It for you, Trevor. So you can walk in the mall with this thing.

[Trevor Noah]

Have you seen the videos of those guys who still do that now?

[Eugene Koza]

Who tied to tame wolves?

[Trevor Noah]

No, not try.

[Eugene Koza]

Who tame wolves?

[Trevor Noah]

Not tame Eugene.

[Eugene Koza]

What do you mean?

[Trevor Noah]

There's these videos of people who are out in the mountains, then they see wolves, then they call the wolves, like, dogs. And then the wolf is not. Obviously it's not a dog, but it, like, looks at them, it approaches them, and it's actually quite amenable to you as a person. And then they start playing with it. And then you see the wolf going, what is this that I'm experiencing?

[Eugene Koza]

This is good.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Why is this clothed monkey making me feel good?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, that's what the wolf is experiencing. And. And then like they say that this is probably how it happened. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Eugene Koza]

Domestication.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, domestication, et cetera. But. But it's amazing to see that stuff. It's like that. Did you say we're dating? Wow.

[Eugene Koza]

Look. One concept that blew my mind away and also changed my life was when I read somewhere, I don't remember where, where it says everything that you're experiencing is what you want to experience. So everyone in my life is a character that I created for me to have the sum total of a life experience with feelings and emotions.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Eugene Koza]

And a quick fast forward to the journey that I need. What I signed up for before I was born, I knew which characters must come into play for me to achieve what I need to achieve.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Eugene Koza]

So for you to be here in a room with me is because I wanted it to happen in the back of my mind. Somewhere in my lesson, in my past life, this should have happened so that I can. Can lead to something else. Same with you. So we keep meeting these soul families, a group of five individuals that will make a great impact in your life as you go along. So even if it's the first stage of your life, there'll be that. You can mention that matter as an adolescent, there'll be five that matter. In your career, there'll be five that matter. Those are soul groups. So those are people just come in into your life and they exist purely for your assistance. They're here to push you. They're here to teach you. Even heartbreak is a lesson. Not all good times. That's why I was asking you in the beginning, why do you think pain features so much in the Bible? It's because heartbreak is an accelerant. Hurt and pain and loss is an accelerant to feeling something. You can be comfortable all your life and not feel anything else. But as soon as you feel loss and pain, you will remember that you also had a good time. So that's what pain and suffering is for. But suffering is voluntary. So you're suffering. You choose it and use it as a medication. You take it in doses so that you can remember how good you have it. Someone in a. In a hospital right now who has no chance of leaving, doesn't have this privilege that you and I have to walk downstairs to walk around, get in the car, press buttons, and that's all they want at this moment. But they've had it maybe for 50 years.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And never cared for it. But the suffering accelerated the memory of the good times that they had. So if you think about life like that. You can walk around the mall and see hundreds of people. But if you think about how many people you've called and sat with and chatted with, in most cases they won't exceed number five. It's a group of people that you can rely on and trust and they always accelerate you to go further. And those are the people that will bring heartache. They'll bring laughter, they'll bring lessons. They'll bring admiration and adoration at the same time. Because you need those two to be balance. As much as you admire someone, someone needs to adore you. That's when the base romantic relationships work. When there's a in the group someone gets admired and someone adores the other person. They adore the fact that they admire them and they admire them for the fact that they adored them. So that's how things work. This balance that we're always seeking and just knowing that once you start feeling something then something is happening. Growth is pain. Kids go through that all the time. Oh my elbow. My back. Cuz they're growing. Then they go and rest and everything feels better again. But as adults, what do we do? We just go and try to make pain not exist. Because we feel like when we're feeling pain we failed. And when you're feeling pain you're growing. When you're tired. Like we walked the other time.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And we felt it. Yeah. Then we did something.

[Trevor Noah]

I think it's the ultimate dilemma though. 100 I'll tell you why I think it's the ultimate dilemma is because.

[Eugene Koza]

I.

[Trevor Noah]

Think we should be careful to not make life about pain. And I'm not saying you're saying that by the way.

[Eugene Koza]

Absolutely.

[Trevor Noah]

But I have noticed there's been a. And maybe this is not a new thing, but just generally I've noticed a lot of people seem to use pain as the meaning. Do you know what I mean? They go, that's why we here. And I'm like no, no no no. Pain is part of the experience. But I think we should be careful to not make pain the experience. Do you get what I'm saying? And the reason I say this is because we should also remember in the same way that we can not only exist in fun, good, easy, comfortable, warm. We also don't exist in cold, boring, hard, painful. We don't exist like that. You know, look at animals like, you know, throughout Africa. Why do they migrate? Like think of the fundamental concept of migration. It's an animal going oh this land is about to become arid. It is about to become cold. It is about to become unlivable. We're going to go seek out another place. And oftentimes, to your point, that journey is hard, but the thing that they're seeking is not hard. And so sometimes I get like a little. There's like a little Spidey sense that hits me the wrong. The way where I go. Like. Sometimes I go like, guys, I think we're learning the wrong lesson or we're applying the lesson incorrectly. Because people will be like, I'm looking for the pain. And you're not saying that, but I'm saying you go, like, pain's a lesson. I love that. But people go, no, I look for pain. I look for the thing. I look. Then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I argue, looking for the thing on the other side, looking for the rainbow. Getting to it is the pain. You know what I'm saying?

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. The journey.

[Trevor Noah]

That is the pain. You want to go and see the view from the highest peak.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. The.

[Trevor Noah]

The hike is the pain. But I get a little thrown off when people now sell the pain and they make it seem like that is the. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Understand that. That is part of it. You cannot get to a tall peak without experiencing the pain of the hike. And when you get there, as you say, funny enough, I love it. That's a beautiful way to put it. It's an accelerant. That pain of the walk makes you appreciate the view even more because you're like, wow, I can't believe this. And because I don't get to see it. And my knees, my legs, my body, my feeling, my whatever, you know?

[Eugene Koza]

You know, the thing is, the average person does not know the difference between suffering and pain.

[Trevor Noah]

The first time I came across that was. It was Viktor Frankl, I think.

[Eugene Koza]

Really?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Victor Frankl, who was a. A psychotherapist, and he was a Holocaust survivor. And I remember reading his work, and he developed a lot of it, I think, in the Holocaust. And he said what he learned there was, pain is real. Suffering is a choice. And a lot of people were angry at this. And he said, no. And he said, I realized this in the concentration camp. He said, these Nazis were there and they were wanting to exterminate me and my people. And he said, but every day I was like, I can smile if I wanna smile, and I can choose to enjoy my day. Now, people. If you say that people were like, that's crazy. But he was like, no, no, no. He's like, this, to me, is real.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

This part of my reality, I'm defining this conversation. Yeah. And you know when you realize how real it is to your point, the pain and suffering, I always think of it in traffic. Depending on how you feel, traffic is either just a thing that is happening or it is the end of your life. Like, I even think of it like this. Funny enough, like, a podcast is a great example. When I have a podcast that I'm listening to that I'm enjoying, there is no traffic. There's literally no traffic. I'm listening to a conversation and I'm driving. Sometimes I get angry that I get there sooner than I was anticipating something is happening because I haven't finished the episode. Now I'm sitting in a parking lot going, oh, man, Now I have to.

[Eugene Koza]

Leave these friends of mine.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man, oh, man.

[Eugene Koza]

Why?

[Trevor Noah]

I thought there was gonna be more traffic. Ah, yeah. But you get what I'm saying now I've either reached the house that I was going to, or I've reached the destination, the office that I was driving. But I'm angry that there wasn't enough of the traffic because I enjoy listening.

[Eugene Koza]

In a car for perspective.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I'm saying? But if I'm trying to get somewhere now, all of a sudden I don't have a podcast and traffic is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And so, to your point, funny enough, that's where it's pain versus suffering. Right. The pain is real. Yes. Your WI fi is slow, but you're not suffering.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. So animals know this better than anyone. So they migrate because they know that if they stay here, they're going to suffer, and that's optional. So they walk towards the pain so they can avoid the suffering. So that's what the thing is. So it's an accelerant in that way that you need to walk towards it. But if you stay, you suffer. So suffering is always regret of things you would have done had you enjoyed the pain.

[Trevor Noah]

Yo. Damn, that's deep.

[Eugene Koza]

So you just have to.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought I was talking to a comedian. Yo, this. I wasn't prepared for this. Oh, no, I wasn't ready. That's a deep one, man.

[Eugene Koza]

So you're there doing it.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. No, but just say that again.

[Eugene Koza]

So suffering.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

If you stay. And then pain is what you go through when you walk away from suffering.

[Trevor Noah]

So it's like you choose. Do you.

[Eugene Koza]

Because it's going to be regret.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you can apply it to everything. Yeah. It's going to be going to the gym is painful.

[Eugene Koza]

Painful.

[Trevor Noah]

Being overweight is suffering.

[Eugene Koza]

Being unhealthy and dying.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And making other people have to. No.

[Trevor Noah]

And if not being able to walk upstairs, carry your keys, lifting your suffering.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes. Should I have met. Should I have cancelled and said, I'm busy and I didn't go. Now I'm gonna sit here and suffer and regret. We could have been doing this. I could have just been here. I walked towards it. I had to do this, I had to do that. Yeah. I don't want to get up now. Oh, should I get dressed now? Oh, let me go. Then I'm here. Then the pain. Then I'm here at the mountaintop, like you said. And I'm looking at this view. Animals do it instinctually. They know that if they stay, they suffer. If they move, they feel pain. But it's ultimately worth it because it's an accelerant to good times. Always when you have to have a little bit of pain, the reward is far greater. So when people have become numb, like you said, that's where the pain starts. That's where the meanness in people is. That's where the impatience is. That's where the intolerance is. Because we've. We now avoid suffering and pain at the same time. Now you're numb. So that's why I say, when the day finishes and I'm in pain. Yeah, I know that did something nice. Not when I have regret. I shouldn't have gone there. Why did I even go? I shouldn't have gone. Why? But if I'm going, oh, my neck. Oh, this. Oh, you're on my finger because of doing this all day. Oh, this and that. I've never regretted those days. I always wake up the next morning and go, I know exactly why this part is sore, but because that pain accelerated me to learn a new skill and. And learn how this person. We've certain cars so many times, you and I. Yeah. And we don't like sitting cars, but we love cars.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And in the car, we know that we play music in the background. And I've always criticized your music choice, but it allows conversation because we're not this thing.

[Trevor Noah]

It allows conversation.

[Eugene Koza]

Always playing there. Tchaikovsky and all these. And I'm like, trevor, is this an elevator you like? Sort of. And then we're there. We have these conversations. We're in a contained environment in traffic, like you said, but we don't see the traffic. And we. We get to have these conversations extendedly. But then when I look at myself, like, I hate being In a car for that long. But when we are together, we're having this conversation. It accelerated that for us. It facilitated that. So when we start looking at people, events, time, our bodies and objects as an accelerant for us to remember who we really are and what we're here to do, then life becomes this journey where regrets don't exist. Because everything that happened that I didn't enjoy was accelerating me to my growth. And why would I hate something that made me grow? I loved all of it. That one missing that half most of the day of school. That day had homework to catch up on. I couldn't trade that for the world. When I'm sitting with my mom, I often think, When I was 10 years old, my mom had just turned almost 40. She was young. She took the time. She could have hung out with her friends. I'm 43 right now. She could have hung out with her friends.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, it is weird to think about how young our parents are. Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

But she chose to.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

She made sure she swapped shifts with someone. She took that shift. She would take me, and then we would hang out. She'd listen to. So I think of those times, and I go, if I think of the homework that piled up, and my friends were telling me about the soccer match that they had after school, Bloody blood. And I'm thinking about the time I laid in the grass with my mom in the park, and I'm like, I couldn't swap that for the world now. I appreciate the effort she put into making sure that she accelerates my growth by feeling that little bit of pain of homework catch up. She accelerated me in knowing who I really am. I love nature. I love being on the outside at the outside. I love being at the park. I love laughing. I love dreaming and just lying there and looking up and having a good time. So when I look at my life in my late 30s and 40s, and I look at my life in my tens, and I'm like, there was always grass. There was always a park. I was at Burgers Park, a park in Pretoria that's derelict. And I got to spend time in the most prestigious park in the world that people dream of going to. And I got to lie in the grass there and daydream again about my life and things that I thought of three years ago in that park. I have them now. So I'm not wrong. Somewhere, somehow, there's energy that's vibrating towards helping me get to where I'm going.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you. What do you do when you feel disconnected? From that, because I maybe, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm even projecting. But I think one of the things I've noticed you and I both share is there'll be moments where we feel disconnected from that. And then it's like you don't want to go outside and you don't want to be part of the world and you don't want to see the thing and you don't. You know what I mean?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you. How do you get back to that?

[Eugene Koza]

I look at pictures. Phones are the greatest invention ever. I look at places that I've been to and I remember the feelings that I had there. Then I go, what is the quickest way I can replicate this? If I can't go there, then I'll find a patch of grass and I'll find a park. Then I'll find sunshine. I'll wear my walking shoes and I'll start walking for kilometers and kilometers. You've got walking shoes? Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

What are they?

[Eugene Koza]

Adidas shoes. But I use them for walking.

[Trevor Noah]

It's just walking shoes.

[Eugene Koza]

No, they're running shoes, but I use them for walking.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought it's like, this is. No, they can do no when, like no one chooses. You chose the wrong day, man.

[Eugene Koza]

All snap.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man, I got my walking shoes on. Oh, I would have gotten away from you.

[Eugene Koza]

When I look at those and I put them on, I know I'm going to walk now. And I know what, what that means to me and what I'll remember. The thing that we do worst in our lives is not to remember. We must remember. You and I have memories between us. We don't have anything physical.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Nothing at all. But we have memories. We go, ah, that guy. There was this time when we did this. Then we laugh, then we move on to other people and other. And then after that, we remember things that they did and we come back to the memory again. Remember that thing. So that's all I have. So when I feel I dive deep into that hole of suffering, then I realize it's self imposed. My bike is outside, my thing is there. My daughter is in the other room.

[Trevor Noah]

My.

[Eugene Koza]

My PlayStation. So I go, why are you choosing this? And I go, yeah, but. Yeah, but I go, look at my sneakers. And I go, I can wear those to go outside right now. And it's within my grasp and reach. And I tell you now, whenever I walk, I see the cars that I love. I see the. I see a Porsche 911. Walk, driving, vroom. And I'm going, if I was in my room. I would never seen this. Is this a coincidence?

[Trevor Noah]

There's a. So there's a French philosopher. He talks about luck and the surface areas of luck.

[Eugene Koza]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. I know I'm going to butcher some of it, but I remember it for the most part. Essentially, what he talked about, this was like. Like a long time ago. But what he talked about was how luck is always happening. It's continuous, okay? However, there are different types of luck that you can choose to participate in. And so he said, the first type of luck is dumb luck. Pure chance has nothing to do with you. And that luck is who you were born to, when you were born, where you were born, what you look like, what. There's certain things where it's like, hey, man.

[Eugene Koza]

Things that are outside of your control.

[Trevor Noah]

Completely outside of your control. You were born in the Philippines, okay? You were born in the Philippines. You were born in Estonia. Okay? You were born in Estonia. That's it, right? That's like a dumb luck. Then the second type of luck that he talks about is luck of motion. And this is where things start to get interesting. So he goes, there's luck that happens to you merely because you start moving, right? Both literally and figuratively. There's lack of motion. So if you lie in bed all day, you can never bump into somebody by chance, in the mall, on the street, in a rest, none of it.

[Eugene Koza]

Motion, motion, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But now remember, it's very important to remind people and myself all the time. I go, like, remember, luck can be good or bad. So I'm not saying this is like a good thing. I'm just saying it is, right? Because if you don't get out of bed, you can never stub your toe right like that.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So it goes both ways. As soon as you start to increase your motion, there is going to be a higher probability of luck happening in your life. So you've created your luck. And lucky people generally are people who try and facilitate more motion in their lives because they consider themselves lucky. So you'll go, why did you buy a raffle ticket? Ah, I'm a lucky kind of guy. Then another person's like, ah, I don't have any luck. That's why I don't even bother buying it. But that motion sets in place the effect that you then experience. Then you have the third one, which I think is like a lack of awareness. They have different names for it, but lack of awareness. And that one is literally what you. Ironically, you see, let's say you did your motion, you left Your house. You went outside. The Porsche drives by. So you've got to experience the Porsche, right? Wrong. You experienced it because of what you were aware it was there. Do you know what I mean? So now you go, wow, I'm so lucky that a Porsche drove by. And a Porsche is my favorite car. Yeah, but you're also lucky because you were aware of it. If you were walking around with your head in your phone and headphones on, now you weren't aware of what was happening. So there's some people who go, I'm so lucky to have such great people in my life. Yes, but you have to be aware that you have great people in your life. Otherwise, you're not going to be lucky.

[Eugene Koza]

To have great people in your life.

[Trevor Noah]

Awareness is one of the key ones, the awareness of luck. And that again, that awareness can go the other way. If you are aware of the negative more than you are aware of the positive, you will feel like you have terrible people in your life. You have terrible things happening to you. You live in a terrible country. Like, you know what I mean? Like, people like that. I'm amazed by the way when I travel the world at how, regardless of where I go, there are some people who think they're living in the greatest country ever. And some people who think think they're living in the worst country. Doesn't matter where I go. I've talked to Americans who say, this is, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm so lucky to be in America. I mean, have you seen this country? And then I talk to Americans who are like, I can't. I mean, this is the worst country. I wish I could live anywhere else. Then I'm like, so the two of you are in the same place. What are you aware of that the other one isn't? Or what are you choosing to be aware of? So that's the luck you've got. Dumb luck, lack of motion, lack of awareness. And then the last one, this reminds me of you is luck of uniqueness or lack of specialization. And this is a luck that'll only happen to you if you choose to engage in something that requires an active and specialized thought. You are way less likely to meet Lionel Messi if you are not in football. Do you know what I mean? Not saying you will or won't, but I'm saying you're way less likely to meet Lionel Messi if you're not in football. You're way less likely to meet a Supreme Court justice of the United States if you're not in Law less likely.

[Eugene Koza]

Noah is less likely to meet Eugene Koza if they're not both in comedy.

[Trevor Noah]

Comedy was our uniqueness.

[Eugene Koza]

Can you. Can I add something else to your dumb luck? When I came back from PE Two years ago, I found this place on the Internet without even looking, without even viewing it. I just moved in. We just moved from the peace you live in now. And then you bought the house.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Eugene Koza]

12 minutes away from.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, dumb luck. But now that wasn't dumb luck. Funny enough. That was lack of motion.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Because you chose a place and I chose a place.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

But the last one, to your point, the most important one, was even us, Ryan, if you think about it, like, comedy, comedy, we've chosen to like, like, hone in on this thing. Like a. You know, I remember telling Dave Chappelle we. Where were. I think it was like his 50th birthday where this happened. 50th birthday or one of the other shows. And anytime Dave is performing somewhere and I can go, I'll go. And then Dave loves comedy and he loves comedians. So Dave says to me, he's like, yo, are you jumping on? And I was like, no, I'm not jumping on. And he's like, why not? Then I was like, dave, I'm not jumping on. Cause I didn't come to do comedy. I came to watch comedy. And more importantly, I came to watch you as Dave Chappelle.

[Eugene Koza]

I'm here to enjoy the show.

[Trevor Noah]

Then he's like, no, but you gotta jump on. You gotta jump on. Come on. Why? Why you not jump? And he was like. And then I had to, like, think about it hard. Cause he sort of didn't understand. He was like, do you not want to jump on? Cause it's my show. I was like, are you crazy? What are you. Then I realized what it was. I was like, dave, you have to understand that I also love this thing beyond me doing it so much that getting to come and appreciate. Cause I see how much you love it.

[Eugene Koza]

I drive joy.

[Trevor Noah]

So if I come here and do the comedy, some of my awareness is dulled because I'm thinking of myself. I'm thinking of my jokes, I'm thinking of my point of view, my performance. Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Was I dressed for this?

[Trevor Noah]

All of it. I'm thinking, like, I'm thinking of me. And now I get to miss you. You as Dave Chappelle. I get to misargue me the greatest comedian of, like, our generation. Because I just wasn't aware. Because I was. I was self aware. You know what I mean? Don't go anywhere because we got more. What now? After this. This episode is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. You want to run a successful business? Well, get ready to put in the work. Because no matter what your company does, no matter how big or small it is, it takes a lot of effort. Just look at what it takes to create even one episode of this podcast. We have to plan, we coordinate with guests, we find time to sit down and record, we have to edit, we have to market, and so much more. Now, of course, it helps to have a good team, but even finding the people for your team is a challenge because that's extra work you need to do on top of everything else you're already doing. And when you need to fill a role right away, it can feel impossible. Thankfully, there's a place you can go for help. ZipRecruiter. It does the work for you to make hiring fast and easy. The reason it works so quickly is because ZipRecruiter has amazing matching technology. Immediately after you post your job, it finds and sends you top candidates for your role so you can get back to running your business experience faster. Easier hiring with ZipRecruiter. Try it free at ZipRecruiter.com Trevor that's ZipRecruiter.com T R E V O R this episode is brought to you by Audi. The all new fully electric Audi Q6E Tron is a huge leap forward, featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage with a panoramic digital stage. Plus you can add an optional screen for front seat passengers so they can stream my best work or anything you want to watch. It doesn't have to be mine. The Q6E Tron is not just a new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn [e-mail] always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted.

[Eugene Koza]

Those steps that you've just mentioned, what I would do before this conversation, I would club them all together into motion.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene Koza]

I would look at it as I did something and they did something and then we did something. Happened.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

I wouldn't look at it as the way that you broke it down. It makes so much sense now. And I also feel like we've become lazy to dream. I think most, most of us, that's, that's the one thing we have for free. Our imagination. Our dreams. Just lay back and just think of what you want and it will appear in front of you. And I learned this weird concept I was telling this friend of mine, I said, everything that I've had that I enjoyed and that I acquired immediately was I never put time to it. I said, I have this thing and I have it now and I can't wait to touch it and feel it and that thing happened. But there's things that I've always put far ahead in my life. And I said, yeah, one day, one day. One day, one. Because I've been non specific about what I want, the thing keeps becoming a dream. And I said, I'm, I'm very aware that also that can be an addiction on itself, postponing your own joy, success and happiness into the future. Because somehow you feel like you yourself, you're undeserving, you're not worthy, you're not ready. So you keep saying, one day I'm going to make a lot of money one day. What's a lot of money? And then you keep saying that because you don't want to be, because you want to commit yourself to it. You know, same way I don't write my set down. There's things I'd never want to commit myself to. And now I'm specific. If I want to see a 911 red one, I'll say it to myself and I'll see a red one and I'll see it twice in a day and I'll be like, yeah, I saw it. Because now I'm aware. Now you've made me aware that it's my awareness that's heightened, but I also was in motion and uniqueness. And uniqueness. And I was specific.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

And I also get specific about what I want. So I'm learning that now recently, that I must be specific with what I want. I. I even see it in my mind's eye.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I, can I tell you why what I think it is though?

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So I argue that most of the time the reason we are not specific with what we want is because we do not know what we want. I believe that all of us as human beings, we do not know what we want. I think we know what we don't want, but we don't know what we want. And I think if you live life thinking you know what you want, you're going to find yourself constantly disappointed when you get there and realizing that it is not doing what you thought it would do.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. So all of us grow up. You're a young boy, maybe some girls as well, depending on society. Whatever you go, I want a Ferrari when I grow up. But Nobody has ever sat us down to say why. Why do you, as a four year old who has never paid any bill in your life, think you want a Ferrari? What do you, why do you think you want a Ferrari then? Because it's fast and, and because it's, because it's red and because it's like, yeah, but why? What are all those things gonna do? What, what is it that you. And then what happens in life? Boys grow into men who then work to get towards something. Girls grow into women who work towards something. And then they get the thing. They get the Ferrari, they get the wedding, they get the big house, they get the job, they get all these things. And then what happens? There's a deep emptiness inside you. And that deep emptiness is the realization that the thing that you want has not made you feel like you thought it would make you feel because you never had it. So how would you know that it would make you feel that way because you've never had it. And this is the thing that I literally realized this for my life. And then I challenge my friends and anyone I talk to about this, they'll go, man, I really want that thing. Then I go, why do you want it? No, because, you know, if I can, man, if I can get that job, then I go, like, okay, then what will happen? I'm just gonna, then I'll feel like my life is. Then I'm like, you're lying. You're lying. Do you know how I know you're lying? Because you've never had the job. So how do you know that the job will make you feel that way? We all want to feel a certain way, but we don't know what the thing is that will complement or help us feel that way. We don't know.

[Eugene Koza]

That's what brings me to the initial subject that we started with when I said, when we hang out with people that have normal jobs.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

Because we get to experience their milestones from the outside. So when someone. That's what I said to you. When someone looks at a car and says, that's a nice car.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you.

[Eugene Koza]

And I remember a time when they looked at another car and said, nice car.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

When we hear them going, I can't get off because of. But we, you and I remember a time when they wanted the gig.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. But now I hope, I hope I get this job.

[Eugene Koza]

So that's why I said, this is coming full circle. That's, that's where I find when I'm with friends that have structured, normal jobs. That's Where I get to measure what people's needs really are versus what they want are. Because they wanted this thing so bad, they dreamt about it. They. They knew if they reached this level and get this kind of a job and position, this is what it means. But when I'm with them now, I don't have the time for this anymore. You know how much things here cost the thing that they dreamt about the most?

[Trevor Noah]

You know, it's so funny. You are. I mean, I've never said this to anyone because it would be weird, but you are one of the reasons I left the Daily Show. Shoo.

[Eugene Koza]

I'm sorry. Not because you knew how he felt about people with jobs. What an evil man.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you.

[Eugene Koza]

You.

[Trevor Noah]

You wanted the re. You know why? There's a conversation you and I had many years ago, maybe like 10 years ago, somewhere there, and you said to me again, as usual, we're in a car, we were driving somewhere, and you said, make sure you learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like, what? I was like, yo, this is deep. Because, like, we were going to buy Nando's or something. I was like, this is a strange. Is this like a euphemism for. Are you telling me you're not going to pay? What is happening here? And then you said, no. You said, you must learn how to starve yourself before somebody starves you. And I was like, what were you talking about? And oftentimes you'll say crazy things to me, and I'm like, we're friends, so I just listen. But when you. When you broke it down, you said, if you have never starved yourself, you do not know what it is like to starve. And so when you are starved by somebody else or a situation, you will now be panicking because you don't know what it is like to starve. You know what I mean? So you, to use like, a silly analogy, if you lift weights, the day you need to lift something, you are familiar with lifting as a concept. Yeah. You've lifted things to yourself. You've made yourself lift heavy things. So now when you have to lift a heavy thing, you know how to lift a heavy thing. And you. You're not like, ah, you. It might still be heavy, but at least you know how to lift things, right? And when you said that to me, it stuck with me. And we talked a little bit more about it. And we talked a little bit more about it. And I remember when I was going to leave the Daily show, the thing that stuck with Me was how very few people considered the notion that I could want something that wasn't what was supposed to be wanted. People were like, but why would you leave? It's the Daily Show. Then I was like, yeah, and it's a beautiful thing. They're like, yeah, but why would you leave? Then I'm like, why do I leave a park? I go to a beautiful park, but now what? So you want me to just live at Central park now? Yeah, but it's so stunning.

[Eugene Koza]

I would.

[Trevor Noah]

There are people. You say that. I think you would, but you. You're like, yeah, just because it's beautiful doesn't mean that it never has to end. You know, coming back to what you're saying about endings, like, literally, I'm not even joking. You taught me that, like, in so many ways. I was like, yeah, but when. When does it end? And it does. I'm not saying it. You have to do it to make it end. But it's like, yeah, but when does it end? And it was so interesting having some of the. Some conversations with people at the Daily Show. Some people who. I said to them, I said, so, are you gonna be here forever? And then they would just look at me and go, oh, well, actually. And some people were honest enough to say, well, actually, there's this project that I was actually gonna leave and I'm thinking of doing. So I'm like, so you, too, at some point are gonna leave. Even like a viewer, there's some people who will say, I used to watch the show all the time. I really loved you on it. Why did you leave then? I go, but you used to watch. When did you start?

[Eugene Koza]

You left.

[Trevor Noah]

Then they go, well, I stopped after the pandemic. And then. But I loved the show. Then. I'm like, yes, but you stopped watching. And you didn't now hate me. You just stopped watching. And that's beautiful. So if you are able to acknowledge and understand that things are going to start, things are going to end, things are going to be in between, like. Like, why? Because if you. If you're not careful, you're no longer aware.

[Eugene Koza]

You're numb. It was.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you, I'm eternally, eternally grateful, Brian. When I think of the Daily Show, I go, like, man, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And I've told you about it. It's like, you want to talk about pain? One of the hardest things I've ever experienced in my life, and also one of the most rewarding experiences I'VE ever, ever had in my life. But to stay in it, beyond the pain now just turns it into, like a suffering now.

[Eugene Koza]

Now you're choosing this pain.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean? I think it was actually Letterman. I think it was Letterman who said in his. In his farewell, this is when he was announcing that he was leaving. It's like they say in this business, you know, you. You gotta know when it's time to move on. You gotta know when it's time to leave. And. And for me, that day came, and I stayed 15 years longer. And today I'm announcing that I'm leaving. But I like. And it was such a. It was a good joke, but it was like, it's a poignant thing that not many people could, like, really. But I connected to that. I was like, oh, yeah, man, it can end. And how many of us can truly say that we have exercised our choice to end a thing when we could.

[Eugene Koza]

End a thing when we wanted to?

[Trevor Noah]

Because most of the time, life is doing things for you.

[Eugene Koza]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

When does the ride end? Oh, when it ends. They tell you to get off a roller coaster. You.

[Eugene Koza]

They're like, please.

[Trevor Noah]

They're like, hey, man, get off. So you never get to choose to end a roller coaster ride. They tell you that the restaurant is closing, so you don't get to choose to, like, walk out when you want to walk out. Sorry, we need this table. They tell you the movie's over. You don't get to choose. Netflix tells you the season is finished. You don't choose. And if you look at it, we are experiencing fewer and fewer opportunities to choose when to end a thing and when to begin a thing, which is a weird, beautiful blessing to have, because there's one thing we don't choose, when to end and when to begin, and that's life. You don't choose when your life is going to begin, and you don't choose, for the most part, when your life is going to end. And so in, like, a genuinely. That's one of the things that you've always like. I've always looked at you like a crazy person, but in a good way. I always think. My friends, genuinely, most of my friends, I think, are crazy for different reasons. But I looked at you, and I go, this. This guy's crazy. Why did he do. He just. So he walked away. So he stopped that. So he's not doing that. So he's not. And you're like, yeah, it is crazy. Only because it's not normal, but it's not crazy because it doesn't make sense.

[Eugene Koza]

People react to extremities all the time because we want to feel. People don't know that they want to feel something. When they watch a football match, they want to feel something. They want to feel joy or disappointment. There's two teams playing.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

There's.

[Trevor Noah]

When there's nothing worse than a boring goalless draw. Yes.

[Eugene Koza]

When people come to your show, they want to feel something. Sometimes they think it's laughter, but it's not. It's actually getting to know the person next to them. They want to be around normal people and hear normal conversation. People want to feel. So when people that are. Are seen as outliers are reacting towards the universe from what they're feeling on the inside as individuals, the whole spectrum of people that they know gets to feel something simultaneously. So when you are acting on something that you're feeling inside as an individual, as Trevor, around people, myriads of them that know you, that you don't know.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene Koza]

When you're acting on your feelings, it ripples towards everyone else that knows you. You don't have to know them. And then they start feeling something. They feel disappointment, they feel anger, they feel like you're being ungrateful because they're in places where they're feeling something they don't want. They are suffering. When are you going? No. The pain of knowing that you will feel this way is worth it for me, because staying was suffering as an individual. I had to make this decision to have this pain so I can end the suffering, so I can walk towards something else, so we get to feel that from other people. A lot of people felt it. I was lucky enough to be around at the Daily show on your last week, and I could see the reaction of how it made people feel. I could feel the rumblings of the audiences before the take started to happen. I could sit with you at the office before you went on the show. Then we go to walk in the streets and go have food. And all I knew was you made the right decision. And I wish people that know you and I could know you the way I know you, because they would know that. That what you did came from a good place. I knew that you take. You took care of the people that work closely with you and some people that will never know that you took care of them in that space, in that job, in that particular environment. You left an everlasting legacy of kindness, of working together, of having everyone have a voice.

[Trevor Noah]

I hope so.

[Eugene Koza]

I was. I was in one of your writing sessions and I would feel like the energy, say something. And then you'd be like, yeah, say, but if you don't want to also say, you can also not say, but that's the culture that you bred. But those are the things that people are going to queue up and tell you about. That's what you must know innately inside of you as a human being, that my reactions are always going to cause a ripple effect to people that know me that I don't know. But they're only reacting towards who I am, not what I am. Because you've changed what you were. You were a host, but who you are is Trevor. You've changed what you were a boss, but who you are is a friend. You've changed all of those things. And of course there was going to be suffering. There was going to be suffering from. People don't want to let you go, but you let them go first because you're teaching them. A lot of what you guys are speaking about. I just. A lot of them touch very similar to like Buddhist principles of like, non attachment, living in the now without worrying too much about the future. And our thoughts of suffering. Yes, are suffering. It's suffering.

[Trevor Noah]

It is suffering.

[Eugene Koza]

So even if you're not suffering, you're thinking about suffering, you're suffering. But I think the main one that you guys are speaking about that's like the same thing over and over is the thought of non attachment. So non attachment to the job, you know, non attachment to. To. To. To financial things and worldly things and.

[Trevor Noah]

Or titles or titles.

[Eugene Koza]

You know, a lot of what you guys are speaking about I think is non attachment.

[Trevor Noah]

You know. You know, one of the. One of the. One of the biggest lessons I learned in processing leaving the Daily show was when I'd have conversations with people on the outside and on the inside. But I realized something that we oftentimes haven't been taught to go back to the beginning of our conversation about loss and life. We haven't been taught that things will end, and we haven't been taught to say goodbye in a healthy way. So what we do is we wait for the thing to be gone, then we start saying goodbye. Like, I'm eternally grateful to my mom and to my gran for fully preparing me for the fact that my gran was going to die. Even though she wasn't on her deathbed. It was like, hey, man, it's imminent. And my gran would even joke about it. But now it meant that while we were talking, we were saying goodbye and we would say goodbye, like a goodbye like, hey, man, okay, go, go. I'm going back to New York. Okay, bye. Bye, Trevor. Okay, bye. Bye, Bye, bye, bye, bye. I might not see you again. Now you're like, damn. You know, you. Like, now you almost want to be like, don't say that. It's like, but why I might not see you again? Because if you learn how to say goodbye when the thing is still there, you get to say goodbye as opposed to always regretting that you never got to say goodbye.

[Eugene Koza]

Starve yourself.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, and I think about this with. With, like, all of it. I go. I think about, like, even us as people in relationships, you know, like, how many of us are guilty of feeling that something is fading for another person and not saying goodbye, instead letting the thing die in front of them and not. You get what I'm saying? Because we. We just. We haven't been taught that.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah, Relationship objects.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, think about companies. What have they taught people? What have companies taught people? No, you must say goodbye when you cannot work anymore.

[Eugene Koza]

The company will retire you when doesn't want you anymore.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but why don't you retire the company?

[Eugene Koza]

You can't afford it. You can't afford to starve yourself.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, why don't you buy your company a pen and say like, hey, man, congrats on having me for 10 years. I'm out.

[Eugene Koza]

I like that by the company affairs.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but think. Just think about how we've been taught. You know what I mean? And by the way, it's actually interesting how, like, have you seen how emotionally reactive people get to people who choose, like, suicide, like. Like a sister. And I'm not saying, like, sad suicide, you know what I mean? Because I think there's a difference between, like, people who are experiencing, like, a deep depression or they feel like the world is ending. And someone has said it beautifully, like, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's a different thing. I'm talking about somebody who goes, I have terminal cancer. Have you seen how. How allergic people are to. Yeah. Euthanasia. How, like, how allergic people are sometimes? No, you, You. And it's like, the person goes like, hey, man, I have a terminal illness. I'm still able to move. I'm still able to laugh. I'm still able.

[Eugene Koza]

And I'm enjoying these things.

[Trevor Noah]

And you know what, guys? I've had a great time. I'm out.

[Eugene Koza]

I had a good run, yo.

[Trevor Noah]

People are like, no. How dare you? You've got to fight and you've got to this. And they go like, no, no, no.

[Eugene Koza]

No, no, I'm fine.

[Trevor Noah]

I've got to say goodbye, and I want you to say goodbye, and I want you to see me like this. But the reaction that people give them, man. And I understand it both ways, by the way. I don't think one is wrong or right, but I understand it. I understand somebody going, no, I want to say goodbye when I'm ready. But to your point, and I know I'm guilty of this sometimes, you'll never be ready because you. You're not practicing saying goodbye. You haven't starved yourself. And so if you haven't practiced it, and if you don't know how to say goodbye, you'll never be ready. Because then when are you ready for somebody to die?

[Eugene Koza]

Always.

[Trevor Noah]

But you get what I'm saying. You're never ready.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then when it happens, you then now experience the thing. And now you now you had a gravestone going, like, I didn't say goodbye. I wish I could have said this. I wish I could have said this. You know? So it's really weird how literally you're one of those people who. Where I go, like, yeah, no, Eugene, if there's one thing you taught me in life, it's like, yo, man, practice saying goodbye. And I think, unfortunately, and in some ways, fortunately, because there's silver linings, I guess life has, like, really amplified the lesson that you've taught me through the losses you've experienced.

[Eugene Koza]

How did that last day feel? Did it feel like you're walking out and you could come back again anytime? Did it feel like you've walked out of this door before? Or did you know you're leaving the chapter behind?

[Trevor Noah]

The week my grandmother died was the first and only week I've cancelled shows.

[Eugene Koza]

At the Daily show in the seven years.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, I had an appendix surgery. I came back to work. I missed one day of work. Came back post surgery. I've had knee surgeries. I've worked, you know, you name it, through the pandemic, all of it. My grandmother dying was the first time I canceled shows at the Daily Show. And I'll never forget, like, when I said, hey, man, we're canceling the shows. The network said, okay, we'll get the correspondence to host. And then I was like, no, we're gonna cancel the shows. And they said, we understand that you're grieving, but, yeah, we're gonna. Like, in a weird way, like, the show must go on. And I remember thinking, my grandmother came on and did an episode for the Daily Show. Like, we needed an episode. We were In South Africa. My grandmother welcomed us into her house. And she's not even that kind of person, but it was amazing to see. I was like, these people. I was like, she's part of this thing. I'm not just the one mourning. The Daily show has to mourn this thing in some way. Cause it was a part of it, you know? And so that all happened. And I'm at home, and I was crying like I've never cried in my life. And then everyone came over. Yo. And I'll never forget this. David Kibuka came over. Joseph Opioh came over. David Meyer came over. Friends from. One from America, one from Uganda, one from South Africa. And they all came over to the house. Eugene. We sat there, and I cried. And then we laughed harder than I've. I can ever remember laughing in my entire life. We laughed. Talking about families and funerals and death and, you know, grandmothers. And like, we. Yo, man, we laughed and cried and laughed. And like, you. You don't even understand. And I remember the feeling that I was having in that moment was a feeling of deep gratitude that I had got to experience this human being who was my gran.

[Eugene Koza]

Hmm.

[Trevor Noah]

And in a similar way that definitely didn't have the same level of profoundness, I felt that on the last day at the Daily Show. There are few things more blessed in this life than being able to grieve when something is still around. Because grief is unprocessed. Joy. It's all rushing into you at the same time.

[Eugene Koza]

Mixed emotions.

[Trevor Noah]

It's all beyond mixed, even. It's all of it at the same time. It's every smile, every hug, every kiss, every laugh, every meal, every. It's all coming in at the same time. And that's why your body feels. That I feel is like.

[Eugene Koza]

It's.

[Trevor Noah]

It's.

[Eugene Koza]

It's.

[Trevor Noah]

It's all of it at the same time.

[Eugene Koza]

Every hug prompted by one motion.

[Trevor Noah]

Yo, man. One death, one. One thing happened, and now it all comes to you at the same time. But you know how wonderful it is to experience that when the thing is still alive. Do you know what I mean? That's what I got to do with the Daily Show. The show didn't get canceled. I didn't get fired. What a beautiful way to move on.

[Eugene Koza]

You're still healthy.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. We got to grieve it, but still be there. We got to. You know, it's that phrase which I. It's always stuck with me, and I love it. I go like, man, I wish we could all attend each other's funerals while we're still alive. Cause then what would we say while I'm here? How would we connect? You know how many people you're gonna see at your friend's funeral that you didn't connect with with because you were just like. But now at the funeral you'll be like, hey man, we should. We should get that drink. Hey man, we should. Why don't we hang out anymore? Why that you would say, that's exactly. But why don't we have a funeral while the person is still alive? Now we're gonna go there and tell the person how we feel about them. Now we're gonna tell a funny story about how wonderful they are as a person and the stupidest thing they ever did. Now we're gonna connect with each other. But why do we only wait for death to remember life? And so it's not impossible. It's not impossible. I just think it's hard because as you say, we get lazy. We. We. We're taught we don't have to do it.

[Eugene Koza]

We.

[Trevor Noah]

We've been sold this idea that it's not you. Never. It'll come. It'll. No, but like, genuinely, I go try it.

[Eugene Koza]

You know, we had this type of conversation, but not obviously in this depth. While we were standing there, you came back and we standing there at your place and. And then I looked at the shoes by the door and I was like, why are there so many shoes here? And then you looked at me and you said, eugene, people are not supposed to walk in with shoes in this house.

[Trevor Noah]

This is my place in New York.

[Eugene Koza]

Then I was like, oh, as I looked at my feet and I saw my shoes on my feet. And it's just that, you know this obviously personally, I'm a very private person on social media. Yeah, I don't put out my life. But if there's one. And if there's one thing that I wish people knew about you, a few things. How nice you are as a human being.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, shucks. Thanks.

[Eugene Koza]

How. How generous you are as a person. And I'm talking about your time and how loving you are to everyone. Because I think us all, as your friends, you know our stories. Personally, as your friends, we don't feel like we are part of a group. Everyone feels like they know you and you know them. And at. When I experienced you at work, remember, I know you from Horror Cafe. I know you from your polo. I know you from tracksuit. Great tracksuit pants. Running to the airport. I'm going to start a new life and a New career. And then I get to see the same guy at this. At the helm of this huge institution, what became an institution, American pop culture. And I see the same guy who asks the pa, have you eaten? Is there something that I can do? Did you order that thing? Is that thing? Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Good night. And I see you doing that, and I'm going, I wish people could see this and know this about you, how nice and caring of a person you are. I've never caught you on a bad day. They've never caught you on a bad day. You are a genuinely nice person. And I always. Whenever I think of what we are going to do, when you say, let's hang out, I always go, I know what I'm going to get here. If there's one thing that's going to happen here is I'm going to experience generosity, kindness. Not a bad word about anyone. And just pure.

[Trevor Noah]

Some bad words.

[Eugene Koza]

Pure child like joy. And you know, people around you will never have less of that, ever, as long as you're still here and the day you're gone. Because we're all going to go some point. But this is what you must know about yourself, is you have it in you. It's not a thing that you earned through money, through fame, through success. You were born into it. That's why your grandmother asked you to lead a prayer. She saw something in you that a lot of the world was soon to see. And she just wanted you to take center stage and claim it. That there's an inner power in you that makes people gravitate towards you, that make people go, I believe in what you're saying. And a lot of what you're experiencing is because of that. You were groomed to be that person of a shining beacon. You bring your friends together. You brought an office together. And now here you are bringing all of us together. And these people will get to hear what I have to say because of you. So you must be proud of yourself. When you go to bed, when you're closing your checking account, like I usually do, take that one thing off. Be proud of yourself for being a nice and kind person who has no bad word to say about anyone. One damn.

[Trevor Noah]

Eugene.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah. I mean it.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, it's funny. You just made me realize why I want to do this series of my favorite people.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Is literally because of what we said.

[Eugene Koza]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like one. People often ask me why I am the way I am. Then I go, like, I'm not the way I am. I'M just a manifestation of the way we are. And the we is all the people in my life.

[Eugene Koza]

Correct.

[Trevor Noah]

You know? So I go, you can't watch my comedy and not know Eugene Caa. You know what I'm saying? You can't see how I think about life and not see Eugene Causa. You can't like this. And everyone in my life has that in a different way.

[Eugene Koza]

Absolutely.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I'm saying? But you like, yeah, man. You blessed me again because you've clearly given me an idea of why. Because I knew why I wanted to do this, but I didn't know. Or rather, I knew what I wanted to do. I myself didn't know the why. And I think this is. This is the why. Thank you, my friend.

[Eugene Koza]

Thank you.

[Trevor Noah]

This is dope. Now let's go say some bad words about people.

[Eugene Koza]

I just want to. I know we've shouted out Buddhism here, but we haven't shouted out Tabism. He was the first one who taught us to say goodbye. Tab taught us to say goodbye. He's here with us now in this room.

[Trevor Noah]

Bye. Bye. Bye. This was dope. Thanks, Eugene. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jodi Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of what Now.