UnitedHealthcare Assassin: Italians Are Black Again?

Summary

Podcast Title: What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: UnitedHealthcare Assassin: Italians Are Black Again?
Release Date: December 12, 2024

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Introduction to the Incident

The episode delves into the shocking incident where a young man allegedly assassinated the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. Trevor Noah, alongside his co-hosts Josh and Christiana, explores the multifaceted implications of this event, touching upon societal perceptions, corporate responsibility, and racial dynamics.

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Details of the Assassination

Trevor opens the discussion by highlighting the peculiarities surrounding the assassination:

Trevor Noah [06:15]: "The suspect, because maybe he's not, and maybe he will be found innocent."

Christiana adds her perspective on the nature of the act:

Christiana [04:24]: "Italians are black again?"

This cryptic statement sets the tone for a deeper exploration of racial identities and societal classifications.

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Racial Implications and Perceptions

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around racial dynamics and how they influence public perception:

Josh [07:01]: "It's usually when it happens to us or we watch it happen, whenever someone who is usually white, almost always white but affluent, gets in trouble for anything."

Christiana elaborates on the stereotypes and societal biases:

Christiana [13:28]: "Violence seems so ambient in America. There's always shootings, right?"

This segment underscores the disparity in how violence is perceived and reacted to based on the victim's societal status and race.

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Corporate Responsibility and Public Sentiment

The hosts critically examine the role of corporate entities in societal issues:

Trevor Noah [17:46]: "The US has the number one most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly 42 in life expectancy."

They discuss the public's frustration with corporations, particularly in the healthcare sector, and how this culminates in extreme actions like assassination.

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Radicalization and Societal Factors

Exploring the root causes of such drastic actions, the hosts touch upon themes of radicalization and personal despair:

Christiana [62:20]: "He lives with chronic pain and had this surgery that made it worse. So, like, it's technically in a Way disabled or has this disabling event."

They debate whether the perpetrator was radicalized through traditional means or driven by personal grievances against systemic issues.

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Legal and Ethical Considerations

The conversation shifts to the complexities of the legal system in addressing such crimes:

Josh [61:18]: "I would find him not guilty by reason of insanity."

Christiana presents an abolitionist viewpoint, advocating for rehabilitation over punitive measures:

Christiana [63:44]: "I think he should serve some time, but I don't think he should spend the rest of his life in prison."

Trevor raises concerns about impartiality and the influence of societal biases on legal outcomes:

Trevor Noah [26:21]: "Who is the system for?"

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Public and Media Reaction

The hosts analyze the media's role in shaping public opinion and the narratives around such incidents:

Christiana [45:22]: "They had a meeting going on. It's the most chilling thing."

They critique how companies and media handle the fallout from such high-profile assassinations, often prioritizing image over meaningful dialogue.

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Potential for Copycat Crimes

A discussion ensues about the alarming possibility of copycat incidents:

Christiana [50:40]: "If there are copycats, it could completely change how healthcare companies operate."

The hosts express concerns over the thin line between desperation and radical actions, especially when systemic failures leave individuals feeling powerless.

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Final Reflections and Verdicts

In the concluding segments, the hosts hypothetically discuss how they would judge the perpetrator if placed on a jury:

Christiana [61:54]: "I would find him guilty, but I'd give him probation."

Josh [64:37]: "I would probably find him guilty."

Trevor reflects on the broader implications of such cases on societal structures and the justice system:

Trevor Noah [67:44]: "I do not wish for the death of anyone. But I think we live in a world where some people with the right tools and everything can take anyone out."

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Conclusion

The episode of "What Now? with Trevor Noah" offers a profound examination of a disturbing incident, unraveling the layers of racial bias, corporate accountability, and the fragility of societal norms. Through candid discussions and thoughtful analysis, Trevor and his co-hosts invite listeners to ponder the deeper issues that lead to such extreme actions and the systemic changes needed to prevent them.

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Notable Quotes:

• Trevor Noah [17:46]: "The US has the number one most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly 42 in life expectancy."

• Josh [07:01]: "It's usually when it happens to us or we watch it happen, whenever someone who is usually white, almost always white but affluent, gets in trouble for anything."

• Christiana [63:44]: "I think he should serve some time, but I don't think he should spend the rest of his life in prison."

• Trevor Noah [26:21]: "Who is the system for?"

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting critical discussions and insights while providing a coherent narrative for those who haven't listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'm gonna start this episode of the podcast with a disclaimer. There's a. There's a thing I do with my friends, and I have called it sweeping judgments. All of these opinions are our opinions. Everything we say is ridiculous. None of it needs to make sense. If you've come here for facts, this is not the podcast for you. This is not the episode for you. There might also be jokes. If you don't like jokes, I'm warning you now. Get your kid to take you out of the room, because shit might go down. This is what now with Trevor Noah. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The holidays are almost here and who doesn't love getting a little back? This season I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on presents I buy for my loved ones with my Apple card without paying a single fee. It's simple and convenient because it's in the wallet app on my iPhone, so it's always with me. And because everything I need is in one place, it's easy to see what I've spent and make a payment. So if you have an iPhone, you can apply for an Apple card and start using it right away. It's easy. Subject to credit approval variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.74% to 28.99% based on creditworthiness rates as of October 1, 2024. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Atlassian Atlassian Team Collaboration Software like Jira, Confluence and Loom help power collaboration for enterprise companies around the globe. With products that enable AI powered teamwork. Doing the impossible just became possible. So join the 83% of the Fortune 500 that trust Atlassian to help transform their enterprise. Learn how to unleash the potential of your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas Celebrate the unexpected at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, the most unique luxury resort and casino in the heart of the Strip. Discover a one of a kind restaurant collection, a vibrant mix of bars and lounges, and three distinct pool experiences. From panoramic views on your private terrace and countless ways to be entertained, find a scene that suits your every mood and experience elevated luxury. Nothing is off the table and temptation is around every corner. Reserve your stay now@cosmopolitan Las Vegas.com welcome to sweeping Judgments. Josh I'm just going to jump straight into it, okay? As a fellow fellow gray hoodie wearer yeah, you knew this guy was going to shoot the guy, didn't you?

[Josh]

Uh, it's something.

[Trevor Noah]

Why are you still wearing the hoodie, by the way?

[Josh]

I. Okay, look, this is how I actually dress. So when he, when he popped up. Can I tell you. Can I tell you one thing real quick about the whole thing? Before we knew who he was or anything, when I saw that dude stand up and then like get the gun ready, everything. I was so thankful to see white hands.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah, it was over for you.

[Josh]

Oh, it was over for you then. Then.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know how many videos have you wearing that exact outfit with that.

[Josh]

Exact backpack talking about CEOs? And so then CBS had the unmitigated nerve to say a light skinned man.

[Trevor Noah]

Did you? Yeah, I noticed that. Shit, I thought I was the only one.

[Christiana]

Do you want to know my conspiracy?

[Trevor Noah]

What's your conspiracy?

[Christiana]

Italians are black again?

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Christiana]

Yes, because that woman from that Trumpy woman said Ariana Grande is taking white. No, no, no, she's Italian, I'm telling you. Italian.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you something, Josh.

[Josh]

I noticed I've never light steak.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought I was the only one.

[Christiana]

Yeah, I know.

[Trevor Noah]

I genuinely thought.

[Christiana]

Now my theory, because it's come out, he's Italian. I'm like, maybe, you know.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But they didn't know. But they didn't know when they made that statement.

[Christiana]

Now what I'm saying, you've. They're calling Italians light skins.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. Let me tell you something. I when that exact thing because we all saw, we all looked at the hand.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And we. You look and you're like, oh, okay, we know who this isn't.

[Christiana]

Yeah. No, no, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

And then they were like a light skinned man. I was like, ah, ah, guys, come on, let's, let's not.

[Christiana]

No. Also I don't want to like cast dispersions on my people, but the time of day I knew they weren't black. It's like too early to be doing hits. Like. No, no, we're not.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn.

[Christiana]

We're not doing. Because you know at the beginning we.

[Trevor Noah]

Thought shots fired in the studio.

[Christiana]

No, no. We thought it was like some elaborate like they hired and assassin.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Christiana]

And I feel like any black assassins out there probably work between 11am and 8pm they're not gonna finish.

[Trevor Noah]

I do not stand by any of these statements. I do not. I'm just saying I won't let a black comedian woman make jokes about black people. Yo.

[Christiana]

I didn't say we'd be late. I'm just saying that our working hours.

[Trevor Noah]

We have different working hours would be slightly different. You know what? I'm not happy that anything happened the way it did. However, I do think, you know, because we grew up very religious, all three of us, that sometimes we are blessed in certain ways. I was chatting to Christiana about this, Josh, and I was like, oh, man, I wonder if we're gonna talk about it on the podcast. And Christiana was like, but we can't. She was like, we cannot, because he hasn't been caught. And there is no third act to the story. We know that the.

[Christiana]

You started teasing me.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I was like, we know that an assassin shot the CEO. We know that he's on the run, but we don't know how. It concludes. We haven't found him, and now we have found the suspect. I will say this. The suspect, because maybe he's not, and maybe he will be found innocent.

[Josh]

Can I interject with one other thing that is about this media frenzy that is a joy to watch. It starts out with something bad, but just maybe we'll get there. Maybe you'll cut this whole thing. It's up to you.

[Trevor Noah]

We're not cutting anything for this episode. Everything we use is staying in this episode. Everything. And if you are listening to this episode, you are, you know, terms and conditions. Anything you listen to beyond this point, terms and conditions apply. You have agreed. Josh, go for it.

[Josh]

So basically, there's a thing, and it's talked about in media, but it's almost only talked about by people of color, because it's usually when it happens to us or we watch it happen, whenever someone who is usually usually white, almost always white but affluent, gets in trouble for anything. They use the best pictures of them. They show them in the best light. And finally, there are people who are, like, disgusted by this act, who are, like, from that normally protected group that have to watch the best pictures of this guy get circulated. Like, he hadn't taken a bad picture yet.

[Trevor Noah]

I was like, he genuinely has.

[Christiana]

I call him Assassin bae. Like, he is.

[Trevor Noah]

He has a fan club amongst the ladies.

[Christiana]

Yeah. Is this surprising?

[Trevor Noah]

Is this hot privilege? Is that what it's called?

[Josh]

Yeah. I mean, if you thought Ted Bundy got mail.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man.

[Christiana]

It's also who he took out, right?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

So if he had shot a worker in McDonald's, for instance, the person who.

[Trevor Noah]

Snitched on him, Right.

[Christiana]

We'd be like, that's not cool. But he literally, like, shot up to.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah.

[Christiana]

You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

To use comedy terms. Yeah. He punched up and Knocked down.

[Christiana]

RIP to that man, by the way. You know, father, family man. You know, we should. We're dehumanizing CEOs right now. But people don't care about CEOs.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, well, I would never dehumanize a CEO.

[Christiana]

No. But bad for business.

[Trevor Noah]

We'll get into this later, but I think part of the conversation is going to be us discussing who gets to be the killer. Do you know what I mean? But let's first start with the most recent news. He gets caught at a McDonald's. I don't know about you, but everywhere I went, people seemed to be on this guy's side. Yeah, I'm shocked that somebody snitched on him.

[Josh]

So I'll throw two things out there, right? First one is, this is not in defense of this person who. I'm just telling you what happened, right. In my experience, when you work at a job like that and somebody crazy come in, you just want them out by any means necessary. And so I think there is a part of you working there being like, look, I don't know, he might think I'm the CEO. I don't know what he gonna do next. I will say, though, there's some crazy irony in that. And I don't know if y'all have heard, but I know all these things are happening in real time every minute. There's like a new update and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There's no. As we said, there are no facts in this podcast. These are all sweeping judgments. Keep going, Josh.

[Josh]

Apparently, yes, apparently they are not gonna give that McDonald's worker the reward that they were advertising.

[Christiana]

What?

[Josh]

Which is low key. Hilarious. Cause if I lost out all $60,000, I would be mad enough to shoot somebody.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't understand what the logic is behind that, by the way.

[Christiana]

The reward or not giving the reward?

[Trevor Noah]

No, the not giving the reward. I don' understand why, like, apparently you've got to, like, claim it ahead of time type thing, but I don't know what you've heard.

[Josh]

Yeah, so what I've heard is that it's quote unquote complicated, which is a hilarious statement because it wasn't complicated.

[Christiana]

What?

[Josh]

That man was right there. But apparently it's complicated because it has. The actual reward to go out has to be approved by, like, two different bodies. And the first reward of $10,000. Cause remember, first it was 10,000, and then they were like, we're upping it. Apparently only one authorized person said that, not the other one. So then they're like, we're not gonna Give you the money and we got the guy. And what are you gonna do, sue us? We're the FBI.

[Trevor Noah]

You see, the system doesn't care about you.

[Christiana]

No, it doesn't.

[Trevor Noah]

I think this story, I mean, it's, you know, look, I'll echo what you said, Christiana. I am not happy for anybody to be shot. I do not wish for any CEO to be shot, et cetera. But, but, But I found it interesting that companies and CEOs saw this moment first and foremost through the lens of them and their safety and their ideas, then seeing it through, like, how people were responding to it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, if. Think about it this way. When Donald Trump. Someone tried to shoot Donald Trump. I don't know what the exact number was, but it felt like half the country was like, no. And then maybe like 30%, even 20% was like, yeah, maybe, maybe. But it didn't feel like a unanimous thing, right? This is Donald Trump, someone who people would argue, the most polarizing figure in American politics. And yo, when the CEO guy got shot, Twitter had some of the meanest and funniest memes produced in one 24 hour cycle. I don't. There wasn't even a single person who was like, guys, guys, guys, it's too soon. I've never seen jokes never be too soon. And I don't understand why they didn't think of that first. Like, why was their first thought, oh, this shows you how dangerous it is to do our jobs and not, oh, this shows you how the things we're doing in our jobs are so shitty that the whole country is for assassin.

[Josh]

I think that in order to effectively do the job of a CEO, especially when it comes to something that deals with human life, you have to be nearly sociopathic in nature. And so then your personal well being is still like enough of a hierarchy in your mind that you don't think about things in the way that it would almost make sense to think about them. If that makes sense.

[Trevor Noah]

It does.

[Josh]

So for me, like a good example, I know a lot of dudes who used to be a bouncer. And all them. All those dudes that used to be a bouncer, the same thing happened. Somebody finally pulled a gun on them and they were like, you know what? I don't need this job, right? But it was a thing of like, oh, I'm gonna do something different because I don't like what's happening right now. So them taking down all their info and not just being like, you know what? Everybody gets free Anesthesia for the next six months. They didn't try to, by some goodwill, they didn't try change anything about the practices. And I think that speaks to a deeper issue in the psyche. They don't think like us because they don't have to, if that makes sense.

[Christiana]

Also, I feel like, I don't know, maybe because I'm a foreigner here. Violence seems so ambient in America. There's always shootings, right? And for the first time, I think for regular people, it finally happened to a person that is normally immune to that type of violence. Like, how often do you, like, you hear about kids getting shot in school? All the time. Like, to the point we kind of be desensitized to school shooting. How many times you hear about a CEO getting shot? And to a lot of people, CEOs are the enemy. So it's like, now's the time to get the jokes off, honestly, because, like, these are people that don't ever experience violence in the way that.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what? You know what I think it also was? It's also the fact that it felt like it was targeted in a clean and specific way. Do you know what I mean? Like, every time we read a story in the news about a shooter, a public event, they might leave a manifesto, but it feels like such an attack on everybody that the people, everyone in the community, even whether or not you're directly in that community or not, you feel terrorized by the act. This guy was so precise and so clean with it. And again, just in case you're listening, I do not approve any of these things. I'm just pointing out how it was perceived by myself and many other people. It was so clean and precise that nobody else felt like it could have happened to them, and nobody else felt like it was meant to happen to them. It's almost like, yeah, this was between you and him, man.

[Christiana]

Yes. It felt like you should only be scared if you're the CEO of this company.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what I mean.

[Christiana]

Everyone else, it was like Wednesday.

[Trevor Noah]

Whereas when you read all these other stories where they'll say, oh, this person had an issue. They were bullied at school, you're like, yeah, but they shot all the kids.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

They didn't just shoot the kid who was the main bully, they shot all the kids. And this guy or whoever actually did it, this person went, shot the person. And then do you see in the video, there's the lady drinking her coffee, or she's drinking something in the video and the shooting happens, and then she just, like, runs off she's also like, oh, this has nothing to do with me.

[Christiana]

You know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

She doesn't put her hands up, she doesn't start scream. She just like, goes like, ah, well, clearly these two people have some sort of disagreement and it is not about me. I'm gonna move.

[Christiana]

I thought it was like a lover, you know, where my mind goes.

[Josh]

What?

[Christiana]

I thought it was like a jilted lover and he was coming back to get his revenge.

[Trevor Noah]

I thought a CEO of a healthcare company getting shot was about. What books are you reading?

[Christiana]

You don't want to know.

[Josh]

No, no. A lot of people thought that. A lot of people were like, you.

[Christiana]

Don'T want to know.

[Josh]

Yeah, a lot of people were like, oh, him and his wife have been separated, he probably cheated. She went ahead and like. And so I think that the difference with this one as well is that there's nothing that reminds you of the, of like the circles and the, and the, and the class affairs like healthcare does and access to it. Because even with tech. Cause remember when that tech CEO got stabbed in San Francisco, nobody was like, oh, they're after us as CEOs, because like, startups and all that stuff is like, still in the culture as like a way to lift yourself up. And we don't see tech and tech bros in that. Even though we make fun of them, we don't see them as the enemy as much. Right. Whereas healthcare, if you've ever had somebody sick in your life, if you've ever been sick, and you were like, I followed all the rules. I gave you money every month for seven years and now you're playing me because you can. Because you're in that, like, higher echelon of this, like, unspoken caste system, then, yeah, like, you now are a representative of the most evil thing.

[Christiana]

Also, the thing with healthcare is that, like, it doesn't matter how much money you have. You have a complaint about the American healthcare system? Yes, because I speak to my super wealthy friends and their doctors no longer take insurance because the doctors are being screwed by the insurance payments. So they're like, yeah, if I want to give birth, I pay $20,000. That's ridiculous. I shouldn't, you know, like, I have health insurance. But so, like, whether you're the poorest of the poor or the super wealthy, you feel screwed by this system. So you're like, all right.

[Trevor Noah]

And look, I know we're going back and forth, you know, everyone colloquially would say, health insurance company, health care company, healthcare. But it's important to remember that this company didn't provide health care. Okay? This is just an insurance company for people's health. So what you do is you pay them to ensure that you have care when something goes wrong. And, yeah, it turns out a lot of the time, I think it's like 30% or somewhere up there. They're one of the highest in the country. They do not give you that insurance. But it is rare that an issue affects as many people across different race, gender, class lines as the healthcare industry in America. You know what I mean? And actually, I want to do this. Like, I know there's a bunch of manifestos that have come up, but apparently this is like the most recent slash, most confirmed one by the most news agencies. Again, if it's not the one. It's not, but they're all similar. But this one is like, apparently the.

[Christiana]

One they said he did.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, this is apparently. It says to the feds, I'll keep this short because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial. Some elementary social engineering, basic cad, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and to do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering, so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas, but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder. The US has the number one most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly 42 in life expectancy. United is the. And there's an indecipherable thing. Largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy question mark. No, the reality is these indecipherables have simply gotten too powerful. And they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it. Obviously, the problem is more complex, but I do not have space. And frankly, I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. That's a pretty gangster line, by the way.

[Christiana]

I like how he has humility.

[Trevor Noah]

He really does. Like, this guy's gonna go, like, take out a CEO, and he's like, look, hey, man, I also admit I don't know everything, but I'm gonna act on what I know. Hashtag humble. I will say that's powerful for all of us to follow in life. The humility. And then the last Part, as he says. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed, for example, Rosenthal, more decades ago. And the problems simply remain. It's not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently, I'm the first to face it with such brutal honesty.

[Josh]

I'll pitch you this. Reading that from him was a reminder that when you read a history book, like, Shek Guevara and them really were just making it up as they went. Jimmy, when you look at, like, any sort of movement or any sort of revolutionary, because they're gone and because they're like an idea.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Josh]

We think of them as people who had the whole plan from the beginning. And in this, like, this, to me, is the most perfect example of why, like, for everyone's sake, for the people with and for the haves and have nots, for everyone's sake, our institutions genuinely need to start working the way they're supposed to work. Like, no more free passes for, like, politicians. No more free passes for anyone. Because this person has basically said in no uncertain terms, right, y'all, I'm only a little bit crazy. Like, I'm literally just crazy enough to do this, but I'm not insane. Like, either this is gonna happen or you're gonna take care of the issue. Because we act as if we act like, you see Josh Shapiro and them get up there and scold the American public. This person's not a hero. And it's like, all right, that's all well and good, and I actually, I agree with your sentiment, but you of all people should be working as hard as you can to save those CEO lives by passing laws that reign them in. You cannot tell people, listen, this is the way it's gonna be, and you're gonna have to like it. And those people have guns in America.

[Trevor Noah]

I also think this. This is what I mean by who is allowed to kill? So we forget that laws were made by people and laws were made by people for people. We forget this, right? Oftentimes people think about laws as if these were things that were passed down from the heavens. But laws were actually created by people for people. Ok? One of those laws in most countries in the world is that your fate and how guilty you are is decided by people. So in America, you have a jury system, but in other places they go to judge, a person will say, yeah, you should go to jail for what you did. And I'm basing this on the law that was created by the people. What I think a lot of people don't realize in this by the way is, in a strange way, if the majority, like the vast majority of the country is for this guy in the strangest way, like in a warped way, you then sort of have to question the whole system to go, oh, wait, is the system the thing that is right as it stands, or is this expression of what this guy did exposing that the system is wrong and it's not with the people? Does this make sense?

[Christiana]

Yeah, it's kind of like that.

[Josh]

No, it makes sense.

[Trevor Noah]

Like if all the people are against the system, then who is the system for?

[Christiana]

It's like, you know that saying that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

I think to like, people who are like, very pro law enforcement. They're like, you know, you can't just have people going around shooting someone. Cause they don't like the way they're doing their job, which is like, to me, very reasonable. And then you go on Twitter, cause, you know, in the bullet casings, I don't know. I don't speak.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah, they're all like denied, deny, depose and delay.

[Christiana]

Delay.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Christiana]

And that became a hashtag on TikTok and Twitter. And people are telling these horrific stories about their experience with the American healthcare system and watching their loved one die. And they're like, this guy did something that I would have loved to do, but I was on the phone to customer service for hours.

[Trevor Noah]

Crying because of family.

[Christiana]

Yeah. Crying because of claims and people talking about, you know, when you max out a half a million for intensive care with your baby, you have to pay out whatever comes after that. So, like, you know, people see him as a freedom fighter and then other people are like, well, if we allow this to happen, it's like America's eventual decay.

[Josh]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

But I think the people who are saying that, first of all, you must look at who they are.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, again, it's such a hard conversation to have because like, everyone will try and paint you as if you are pro just killing a person, which I'm not. You know, those natural experiments that you never expect in the world but then are forced to live through, they happen to you and they force you to think about what's happening in society. Right. If I think of the Sackler family. The Sackler family is responsible for killing millions of people in America or whatever number. Right. Hundreds of thousands at least. They are partly responsible for doing this in many ways actively. Right. They're not in jail. They're not going to be put on trial in that. All of this stuff, all of this, they're not gonna be treated the way he was. And so in a strange way, to your point, I go, corporations and giant groups of powerful people is the domain of the powerful. Like this is the land of the kings, right? They get to do a thing to a group of people. And we don't call that quote unquote murder or an assassination. They just go like, no, they were irresponsible and they put profits over people's health and safety. But I'm like, okay, but then what happened to the people that they did it to? Well, many people died. So they weren't killed, they just happened to die. Right. And so in a weird way, if this guy had started a company, somehow made it about healthcare, created a drug that this guy needed, gave him too much of the drug or too little of the drug, and then this guy died, then Luigi wouldn't be going to jail.

[Christiana]

Absolutely not.

[Trevor Noah]

It's just about like how instantly he did it and how much he did out of the system that he gets treated differently. And again, I'm gonna say it's a thousand times. Cause you know how the world is. I'm not for what he did. But it just throws up like an interesting. Do you know what I mean, Josh? It throws up an interesting conundrum because the same people who are pro the system apply it differently depending on who.

[Christiana]

Is doing the killing, turn a blind eye to corporate greed. I would call it. Some people call it corporate manslaughter. I call it corporate fricking murder. Right.

[Josh]

Yeah. I think that also if you are able to spread as much of the culpability as possible, we have a hard time imagining 1,000 people in a company being liable for one murder, if that makes sense.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely.

[Josh]

So that also takes away some of it, even in the person's mind who does it. Because I think the thing that I won't say, no one wants to say. Cause I'm not acting like I'm some complete outlier in my rhetoric over it. But I think the thing I have not heard anyone say is that this man Luigi committed murder, but he did not commit the murder of an innocent man. And I think that's where everyone's struggling.

[Trevor Noah]

I think that is where a lot of people are struggling. Yeah.

[Josh]

I mean, because it's like I understand what the Josh Shapiro's and even what the news to a certain degree is doing, where they're like, no, we can't just have murder, blah, blah, blah. And I get that, but he killed a killer. So like when it's on Dexter. We love it. Yeah, that's true. So how are we now so shocked that people mostly. And people who have been killed, by the way. Because that's the other thing that I think a lot of. I won't put it on all of white America or anything. Cause they obviously have their own factions and their own sections and stuff like that. But that's what a lot of people don't even understand about gang culture is that it's like someone eventually gets got. You stay in the street long enough, you get your people.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh]

And then you get got. And then there are people that were, that were never going to come for you, but they're waiting for the day that you get got because you killed their cousin.

[Trevor Noah]

Mm. Mm.

[Josh]

And I. And so you were responsible. They don't necessarily.

[Trevor Noah]

You were responsible for the shooting and they weren't involved in gang anything. But they are happy the day you get. That's a. That's a great analogy, actually. Yes.

[Josh]

And so I think that's what a lot of, a lot of the, I guess you could say upper echelon or the well off parts of America do not understand because they are so used to having like swift and definitive justice for themselves that they cannot put themselves in the shoes of someone who did something to you. And that's just how it is. And that's just gonna, that's just what happens. And so then I move on. And you have to live with it.

[Trevor Noah]

We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Travel is all about learning and experiencing things in a new, exciting way. But you could get even more from your travels. With the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you can earn three times the points on travel purchases and receive a three hundred dollar travel credit. It also comes with plenty of other perks too, like access to Sapphire's Airport Lounge network. You can relax and refresh with locally inspired menus, a curated selection of drinks and more before getting on your flight. Make the most out of your next trip. Learn [e-mail] SapphireReserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom Rack. Just in and so good. Thousands of new winter deals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Save up to 60% on Sam Edelman, Sorel Free People, Cole Haan and more. Cold weather finds. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

[Christiana]

Josh, I was wondering something because I think on here we speak a Lot about young men being radicalized. That was my thing. That was my Trump assassination take. I was like, these white boys are going crazy, guys. We need to get them jobs.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, but this guy had all the jobs and Right.

[Christiana]

So.

[Trevor Noah]

And all the money.

[Christiana]

There are some people saying on, like the more right wing media that this is a clear case of left wing indoctrination. You send your kid to these prep schools, then they go to the Ivies, they come across these crazy ideas and then look what we have here. We have someone that, you know, a boy that had the whole. His whole future ahead of him decided to shoot a CEO. And that is some of the rhetoric we're seeing out there. Do you feel he fits under the young Man Ryder collaboration? Whether it's to the left or the right? Because we're seeing this happen on both sides of the spectrum. Like there was a kid that set himself on fire for Palestine last year, if you remember. And so it's just like. Do you think he fits that category or he's just like something else entirely?

[Josh]

Yeah, personally I don't because I don't see any of the. I think the blinders that we have as Americans are like, almost like when you go into the 3D theater and they give you the glasses and one side is red and one side is blue. And it's about to shape how you see everything. So you're gonna see this 3D world. Cause you have the red on and the blue on. And I think that if you go to one of those 3D movies without the glasses on and you're just like, this is bad. This doesn't make any sense. That is who I think he is. I don't think there was a Republican or a Democratic agenda. Because if you pay attention to Republicans and Democrats, they're both for the health insurance companies. And there's nothing to me that screams politics with it as far as the online radicalization. Because everyone. There are people. So even people who are pro cop are like, hey, sometimes dudes gotta get got.

[Christiana]

He.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Do you mean. And so I don't think he got radicalized in a normal workout. Jordan Peterson pipeline, if that makes sense.

[Christiana]

Do you want to. Well, my take is.

[Trevor Noah]

Sounded like my favorite workout. Workout Jordan Pearson.

[Christiana]

I mean, we haven't. We haven't spoken about his appearance.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I just think that's a funny workout Jordan Peterson client. He's very ripped.

[Christiana]

He's very ripped. Very handsome. I won't dwell on that too much, but that is informing why some people are treating him this way. But I think they spoke about him having these.

[Trevor Noah]

I actually argue. Before you move on.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I actually think it's the other way around. I think, you know, sort of in the same world that Josh is in, I think we might be looking at a lot of this backward, right? We're going, oh, because he's hot, People are treating him differently because he's good looking. People are treated because he's white, People are treated because he's this. Because I think it's literally the other way around. I think because he went after somebody who represented something that everyone considers a deep enemy. And I mean a deep enemy because in the most extreme cases, they've lost family members because of this.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Or they themselves are in, like, chronic pain and cannot get help because of this system.

[Christiana]

And this is a company that denies 1 in 5 claims.

[Trevor Noah]

I think because of that, people are able to see things. So, like, if. Yes, obviously there were people who would always think he's good looking. Because he's good looking. Maybe. But I think more people can see his good lookingness because he did a thing that they approve of.

[Christiana]

He is stadiums above average man.

[Trevor Noah]

Christiana, I'm not.

[Christiana]

He's a beautiful man.

[Trevor Noah]

You said you don't want to dwell, but I feel like you want to dwell on his looks.

[Christiana]

Like, no, the first. When you saw the first image where the mask was down, I was like, mm, mm. You cannot send this man to prison. He needs to be like, in a Calvin Klein ad. And then you're seeing more pictures, like, even, like the mugshot he's serving.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, yes, yes, Trevor.

[Christiana]

Shaping how women feel and gay men feel about this. I'm just gonna speak on our behalf.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not taking that away. What I'm saying is this. Okay. To Josh's point, like, if somebody, you know, the enemy of my enemy in a way. Right. There are people, as you say, Josh, who are pro law enforcement, who are like, yeah, but in this instance, I'm with him. There are people who are anti gun who are like, yeah, but in this instance, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. But because this guy has done something that most people would argue is almost like morally correct.

[Christiana]

I understand it.

[Trevor Noah]

Which is weird, by the way. Cause it's morally accepted or morally correct. They then are able to put aside the thing that butts heads with what they normally agree or disagree with in this instance.

[Josh]

You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. That's why I don't think his radicalization was like, of the norm. Because he somehow, by just this is I'll pitch you this. And now please don't put me on a list. Cause this is gonna make me sound radicalized. But, like, I cannot get over what I was saying before. Off of what he wrote. I don't think he's someone that was radicalized. I think he was someone who. Like, in H.G. wells time machine, the perspective of the author is someone who's not of that time in the future where people are just like, kind of willy nilly and like, they're willing to let someone drown and not do anything or whatever. He's like, the only one that's like, hey, hey, everybody, everybody. Something has to be done. I'm saying that, like, from what he wrote, if you take him at his word, he's like, the first domino had to drop. And it just was me, cuz. It just was. And that's actually someone who. The thing that they do may be crazy, but that's not a crazy thing to think, right? Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Mm.

[Josh]

If you've ever been out with your friends and you're the only sober one, and everybody's drunk, one of the hardest things to do is move a party of drunk people out of somewhere. And so now you're the one that's like, kind of being the jerk in a way. That's yelling like, okay, okay, okay, okay. We gotta go way. And I think that that is more what he thinks he did than any form of. Like he himself said. He's like, I'm not even the most qualified to have this discussion. I'm just telling you, you're not invincible. The way you treat people matters. Like, whatever people are gonna insert into this and maybe put in the zeitgeist is like, that was his intention. And that doesn't feel as crazy to me as like, someone who is like a Unabomber, right? Because this dude managed to. Venn diagram Kyle Rittenhouse and SEAL Team six, everyone. This dude. This dude managed to get the people who are super, super left. The people who are super, super right. And like, even the cops. You could see the cops weren't looking hard. The cops got family in hospital.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man. That's true. Actually.

[Josh]

That's why they were brushing those leaves. He ain't over here.

[Trevor Noah]

I cut you off the way. So you were going down a rabbit hole. Where were you?

[Christiana]

What I was gonna say, I think the back thing, that's something I've been thinking about since yesterday. The fact that he lives with chronic pain and had this surgery that made it worse. So, like, it's technically in a Way disabled or has this disabling event. Any type of chronic issue, especially in American healthcare system, can make you crazy. And I'm not saying what he did was in the moment of craziness, but being in constant pain and the people that are supposed to take care of you do not Will take you to a place where most people just like, I'm just gonna stuff myself with opiates.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christiana]

Do you know what I mean? And he's like, we have to do something about it.

[Trevor Noah]

But you see, to Josh's point, though, and I think this is where we. You know, Josh, this is where I think you and I are literally on the exact same side of seeing. This is the word crazy. Here is for me, the key. Cause I agree with you. Somebody in chronic pain can do something crazy, but oftentimes those people, the crazy goes everywhere. Whether it's a guy in Japan who goes to a preschool and stabs a bunch of kids, whether it's like somebody in Australia who walks into a crowd and shoots a bunch. And then they all leave some sort of manifesto and they go like, the world is this. Or my company did this. And people are like, wait, you stabbed preschoolers because your company fired? Wait, what is happening? And then here to what Josh is saying, and I think what a lot of people are feeling is the guy's like, yes, I'm chronically in pain, but I'm not gonna shoot a nurse. I'm not gonna shoot a doctor. I'm not gonna shoot an ambulance driver. I'm not going to shoot anyone who works in a hospital. I'm not gonna shoot my doctor. I'm not gonna. No, no, no. I am going to go to the person who I think has the most impact on this system, and I'm basically gonna take, like, an assassin's Reaganomics approach and say, this thing will trickle down. And that, to me, seems like the opposite of crazy. Again, not for.

[Christiana]

I think he's got. But, you know, mit, Trevor, I think everybody's got a little bit of.

[Trevor Noah]

Then to me, I go, that's like.

[Christiana]

To live in this simulation, you cannot be sane. Right? But I think. I think it was a very lucid thing, like. Cause what was that?

[Trevor Noah]

Guys, do you know how. Have you ever engraved a bullet case? This is. This is a very. Have you ever held. Have you ever held a bullet? Have you ever held a bullet?

[Christiana]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you something. Bullets are. Bullets are tiny, especially in that type of gun, right? Engraving that thing takes a lot of, like, dexterity.

[Christiana]

I mean, he's got an engineering degree from someone.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but my point is, this is not a. Like, man. I'm gonna do something about it and then go outside. No, you're sitting there, you've got your bullet.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You're, like, working away. You think you can't make any spelling errors.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. Because that's not gonna. That's not gonna get. Delight. Doesn't get the same effect when people find the stuff. Do you know what I mean?

[Josh]

Do you think he whistled while he made them?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just saying most people who are working, creating things, especially tiny things, whether it's trains or planes, will generally, you know, they'll. They'll. They'll work on it. And I. Yeah, I think I. I don't know. Look again. And I'm gonna throw this disclaimer in one more time. We do not know everything. This is sweeping judgments from everything we do know. From everything we do know, or what we think we know right now. Could all be wrong. Might be wrong. Let's work on what we have. We look at, like, even, like, the books and stuff that he was reading, and then, like, the reviews that he apparently left on some of them.

[Christiana]

By the way, he also followed Trevor on Twitter, so he's a man of taste. We must say that.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I give him props? He followed a broad range of people. Aoc, Joe Rogan, me, Steve O. This is like a broad.

[Christiana]

I think he followed Elon on Twitter as well.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, it's a broad range of people.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And if anything, he made me think, huh, Should I not be broadening my.

[Christiana]

Well, you know, you're safe. If he gets off. Not guilty, he's.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no, no. I think of it more like this. I thought to myself, if this young man. Cause someone said to me, they're like, why would he follow you and Joe Rogan? And I was like, actually, you know what? If this young man could see any similarities in something between me and Joe Rogan, then maybe I could do a better job of that as well. That's what I thought to myself. And so I think when I look at this person, I will say this. Good luck to them. Finding a jury that is gonna find him guilty or even a jury who won't pull that. You know, that law. It's like a. What is it called? It's like some weird. There's like this weird law in America with jury nullification, I think it's called, or something where jury can be like, yeah, the person did it. But you know what, man? It's all right?

[Christiana]

The jury's gonna be tainted just because who hasn't had a terrible experience with healthcare companies in this country?

[Josh]

But this is exactly my point.

[Trevor Noah]

This is exactly my point.

[Josh]

I'll pitch you this. All that dude gotta do is roll up in there and be like, y'all, I am so sorry. I've been crazy. And I was on the phone with United Healthcare and nobody would take my call. And so I was trying not to do this for six months. Cause remember, y'all, I went missing. Remember when I went missing? And so then I was on the phone with him that whole time I was missing, and then they didn't pick up, so I was like, let me go see him.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn. Everything you're saying. Everything you're saying.

[Josh]

Also, if you wanna talk about safe CEOs, I know that the CEO of Starbucks must have signed a brother Relief. That man hit a Starbucks right before he did it. And then CEO of McDonald's, too. McDonald's probably, like, who? Thank goodness. Ooh. All right. Oh, boy.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, there's an interesting. I'm not sure if it was a study or if it was just a piece of work that was done on how collective groups can shift individual morals. And it literally spoke to this idea of everything that people will do as part of a company they would never do as a person.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean?

[Christiana]

Yeah, for sure.

[Trevor Noah]

And I think what this. What this kid allegedly did is he sort of poked a hole in the idea that a corporation isn't people. Do you know what I mean? Because, like, we often act like corporations are not people. We go like, well, the company, the company, the company, the company. And then it's like, the company. And you cannot send a company to jail. That's literally the law. So they go like, you can't. What are you going to do about it? And so the company's fined, and the company. And then he came along and he was like, oh, no, no, no, guys, it's not the company. You know, in the same way, when you go on a safari, they say the reason animals don't jump in and eat you is because the lions see you as one unit with the vehicle. So they don't see people inside the car. They go, this thing rumbles past us and it doesn't eat us and it doesn't fight with us, so we don't care about it, and it's not our prey, whatever. And they leave it alone. And in a weird way, it feels like what he did here for many people, was he went, yes, I know that this behemoth is unstoppable. It is unsuable. It is unbeatable. It is unquestion. It's everything. But you know what? It has people who run it. And by piercing that veil, I think a lot of the people who run it now go like, ugh, think twice. Yeah. Because let me put it this way. The fact that this is what I also realized from this whole incident is like, companies don't give a shit. They truly don't. Now there are companies who are selling benign products, and it's like, all right, whatever. This is a drink. You like, you know, a vacation or what? Yeah, I'm not. I don't hate companies. Right. But there's an element of, like, companies, they don't give a shit.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And you see the levels of don't give a shit even in the story. This guy gets shot, the CEO, he was going for an investor meeting. You know, they still held the meeting.

[Josh]

Yeah. Like some gang. They still had that meeting. The mob doesn't do that. The mob. If somebody in no Godfather movie did somebody get pop, pop. And they were like, so you were saying that's never happened in a mob crawl.

[Trevor Noah]

They held the meeting.

[Christiana]

Rip. Moment of silence. Yo, they had a meeting going head is the most chilling thing.

[Trevor Noah]

And then how did they. And then how did all these healthcare companies react? They pulled down their leadership from every website. But here's my thing. If they believe that this thing was so dangerous that they need to pull down their faces, why would they not, like, get protection for everyone? Why would they? Do you get what I'm saying? It's such a, like, nefarious. It's all about us. It's the top and it's the CEOs. I'm like, you guys, you can't even act like good guys in this moment. You can't even come out and go, man, you know, we don't like what happened, but we need to have conversations about what the healthcare industry, how we are perceived. Because if one of us is shot and everyone's happy, maybe it's time for us to look inward and be like, damn, maybe there's something we are doing or aren't doing. And I go back to, by the way, the Trump assassination thing. I said this. People disagreed with me, whatever. But I said, like, afterwards, you look at those few weeks after Trump was shot at, he was a little calmer. He was just a little bit like, hey, man. You know, come on, guys. Like, hey, man. And I think there's like a humanness that companies just don't encourage in people. And this got exposed by it. Even for the. Like, if you work for this company, why would you even. Like, why would you help them make themselves worse when they've shown you that if the worst that they do comes back on you, they don't give a shit about you?

[Christiana]

Well, if you lose your job, you lose your health insurance.

[Trevor Noah]

The grand irony, right?

[Josh]

Yeah, it's probably right.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, the grand irony. Don't go anywhere. Cause we got more. What now? After this. This episode is brought to you by Brooklinen. All right, people, let's talk about bedrooms for a second. Do you ever wake up, look around and think, hmm, this room is not what I hoped it would be? And no, I'm not talking about the person next to you. I'm talking about the personality of your linen. Yeah, that's the thought I had. Well, that was the thought I had until I discovered Brooklinen. I discovered their King Lux core sheet set and the beautiful quilt in that tea leaf color. And now my bed looks so good, it's practically judging me for wearing sweatpants all day. But honestly, these sheets have made me question how I've lived my life up until this point. Over 200,000 five star reviewers say that you've been missing out. And I'll be honest with you, I think they're right. Even the fancy experts at Good Housekeeping are on board. So refresh your space today with Brooklinen's award winning textures, layers and home essentials. Visit in store or [e-mail] that's B R O O K L I n e n.com get 15% off your first order and save extra when you bundle. This episode is brought to you by SurveyMonkey. The world is always changing and totally unpredictable, which is fun unless you're trying to run a business. So if you want to build a product people actually love, keep your customers happy, and stop your team from setting their status to emotionally unavailable, well, you've got to understand what people are really thinking. And to do that, you need to dare to ask the questions that really matter. Luckily, SurveyMonkey makes it super easy to ask the right questions that will drive your business forward. In fact, SurveyMonkey answers 20 million questions every single day for over 300,000 organizations around the globe. Get answers to your questions. Go to surveymonkey.com dare.

[Josh]

This is once again gonna make me sound like I've been radicalized or something. And I genuinely have not. Right? Disclaimer. Disclaimer. But another Thing that I think was on people's minds and was a thing to root for with this guy is we are in the year of what feels like open murders by corporations. That Boeing guy, that second Boeing guy. The whistleblower deaths that have been happening in American companies are, like, so undertone scary that I think people were like, yeah, you cannot separate that.

[Trevor Noah]

In my mind, it really felt like David and Goliath.

[Josh]

Yes. Because when you look at Boeing, all that dude said was what? We already knew, by the way. The dude that got mysteriously murdered in the parking lot of his hotel room right before he was supposed to testify in court. All that stuff. That dude, all he did was he had worked at Boeing for, I think, 19 years or something like that, but he was like, the plane door gonna fly off. We already saw the plane door fly off, so he didn't even have any secrets. He was just about to say it in court, and he mysteriously dies. A dude who. No one actually knows where that dude is. I think that that's a big part of it.

[Trevor Noah]

You think it'll change anything?

[Christiana]

I think if there's copycats, I think it could.

[Trevor Noah]

Huh?

[Christiana]

I think if there's copycats, and I do think there's a high chance there could be, because there's a lot of people out there that feel they have nothing to lose, you know, and so.

[Trevor Noah]

You think the one.

[Christiana]

No, no, I don't think one's enough because I don't think that health insurance companies are scared enough. And there's like, trillions on the line. Like, it's a lot of money. Right. And they can hire security and do all these things, but if it becomes a thing of, like, you know, how Robin Hood would, like, steal from the rich and get to the poor, and it's like there's people out there who are disgruntled and they shoot people high up at health insurance companies, it completely change how they operate. But I don't think one's enough. Not that I'm trying to say people should do more. Please, everything.

[Trevor Noah]

Disclaimer. Disclaimer.

[Christiana]

I don't want that smoke, but I just don't think one's enough. But I think if there's copycats, it's. It's game over.

[Josh]

Yeah. I also think more would be bad because a lot of people don't have aim.

[Christiana]

Yeah, that's why people thought he was a professional assassin.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but he got up really close. I mean, people forget he got up. Really? Really?

[Josh]

Yeah. You, like, there are people who say the whole sniping from Far away thing is like a thing in the movie.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh]

That's like.

[Trevor Noah]

No, this is more real, like up close. That's, you know, this is what's happening in, like, developing countries all around the world. People who are, like, running to clean up government. You don't get got from far.

[Christiana]

Oh, my God.

[Trevor Noah]

For the most part, yeah. Just someone comes up. Even think of, like, mlk.

[Christiana]

Wasn't it like a balcony?

[Trevor Noah]

No, I think they're a lot closer.

[Christiana]

He was on a balcony, right?

[Trevor Noah]

I think they're a lot closer than you think, is what's always the case.

[Josh]

Yeah, I think he. I think he got caught because. Yeah, MLK was on a balcony, but he shot him. I think in the picture, they're pointing at. Yes, they are where they're shot at.

[Trevor Noah]

They're like, there he is. Yeah, it's one of those. It's one of those.

[Christiana]

You know, maybe I've watched too many movies. I always thought it was just like that sniper thing, and people are super far, you know.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I say, talking about movies, I. Again, I don't. I don't. Disclaimer. Disclaimer. I don't disclose. I don't condone anything. Blah, blah, blah. I was disappointed at how he got.

[Christiana]

Caught in a McDonald's.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no. Like, what I mean is, like, you know, it seemed so, like, you know, like, it was just like, wow.

[Christiana]

Well, that's why black people don't believe it's him. You know that, right?

[Trevor Noah]

No, I know. I know. The conspiracies.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because it was just like, the guys seemed to do everything, like, really well. And then all of a sudden, it was like, oh, so do you want to know? Found with a bag with everything in it at a McDonald's.

[Christiana]

Just chilling. Mind getting caught. He did what he wanted to do. He wanted to kill the CEO and everything after that was a bonus. I think he probably thought he'd be caught sooner.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, interesting.

[Christiana]

Yeah, because there's like. There's no. He had the weapon on it, allegedly, because some people say they planted stuff, but he had a weapon on him. He had a manifesto on him. Like, he's telling the cops how he did it. And his note. I feel like he was just like, I'm going to kill that guy. That's what I want to do. And we'll see what happens next. I don't think he was, like, on the run and trying to, like, go into the shadows, but maybe. Josh, you disagree?

[Josh]

I. Well, I only slightly disagree. First, I thought what. Exactly what Christiana thought So when I heard that they even had a suspect or that, like, he took his mask down or something, I was like, all right, this person's either, like, really dumb or they don't mind getting caught. But I personally, this is just me. I think he was on the way to do it again. Oh, I think that. I think where they caught him, what they caught him with, it screams someone who's not done to me like that.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I think, yeah, I can take that.

[Josh]

I think he was in. I'm surprised the news hasn't said that, or no one that I saw on the news has theorized that. Because to me, to have everything with you, like, crackheads don't do that. To have everything on you from the crime you committed days ago, by the way, this stuff is heavy. After a while, you're not gonna lighten your load, throw it in a trash can two states away or something. So, I mean, my thing is, if this kid is trying to get away, his family owns two country clubs, right? When you fly private, they don't check you for weapons. They don't check. So all he has to do is fly private to the other side of the country and then take a bus into Mexico. He already had the head start of Central park, which I don't think people realize how much he was not gonna get caught.

[Trevor Noah]

Also, the Central park of. This is the one thing that's confused me. The police said that he went into Central park and then appeared on the other side without the backpack. That's what they said. That was the original statement. Right. So I don't know if you know anything about the back.

[Josh]

So the theory that I've seen. Right. Is that a lot of what people are saying, because the police, and I don't just mean nypd. I mean, any police department is never gonna go out of their way, even if it means telling the truth, to make themselves look incompetent, stupid, corrupt, whatever. And so there were some people that were saying this thing. Like the thing that you just read was when they were looking at a different person and they were wrong, and now this.

[Trevor Noah]

That would make sense.

[Josh]

Do you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Josh]

So they were wrong about that thing, which I think is why they haven't said it again. And now that he's got the backpack, they were like, yeah, he had the backpack the whole time, by the way.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I just say one of the funniest moments? I think it was Eric Adams who came out and he was like, we solved this case using good old fashioned police work. It's like, no, someone snitched.

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

It's just another example of, like, where it's like, yeah, this showed me how.

[Christiana]

Incompetent the police were. There's nothing like, even now, I'm like, you guys got outsmarted by a kid and literally got caught because someone in McDonald's was like, oh, he's a weirdo.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, someone snitched. And that was it. Like, that was literally.

[Josh]

I mean, the fact that they are not giving that, that worker the money.

[Trevor Noah]

Josh is trying to eradicate, that's enough to work. I'm just going to put it out.

[Christiana]

I mean, the worker should have been radicalized working in McDonald's because I'm sure they don't have health insurance. And I'm just, like, shocked at the lack of class solidarity. Shocks me.

[Josh]

I'm just saying, like, you robbed me of 60k. I'm not saying I would. I'm just saying people have done it for less.

[Trevor Noah]

You're not saying you would.

[Josh]

I just think it's wild.

[Trevor Noah]

But you might. You might buy a backpack.

[Christiana]

Yeah, but maybe we're underestimating how much, like, regular Americans do hate crime. Because if it's like, just a regular person working in McDonald's who's like, hey, police, I think I found him. That maybe there could be a jury in New York, like, if they get people from ota, Queens, Staten island, who'd be like, guilty, I hear you, but.

[Trevor Noah]

I think Josh's theory is the best I've heard. And it's that because you don't know what you're dealing with. Cause think again. Let's look at America through a larger lens. Any shooter that people talk about is shooting everyone. So we have had very few, if any, instances of a, like, a targeted single shooter that doesn't endanger another person type thing. Even the person people always forget at Trump's assassination, somebody else died. Like, no one talks about that. Right. It's not like the bullet didn't kill another human being. People are just like, whoo, thank God nothing happened. I'm like, no, no, no. There's a man who lost his life. He was just standing at the rally. So, yeah. You get what I'm saying?

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So it's very rare that anyone who's shooting doesn't involve other people who they either didn't want to or didn't care to involve. Same with gang violence. How many times are little kids shot in the midst of gang? And then the gangsters will be like, we didn't want to do it. And community Is like, we don't care. You did it. So I can see somebody seeing that guy in the McDonald's and like, Ah, man. That's why Josh's theory is completely. I can see. Cause you don't know what's about to happen. But I think when it comes to jury time, it's going to be a very different story, because now people are like, ooh. If his lawyer is in any way, shape or form allowed to bring up anything that United Healthcare does, I think it'll be tough for a jury to give this kid everything.

[Christiana]

I mean, he's a rich kid, so he's not going to have a public defender.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Christiana]

His family's going to have.

[Trevor Noah]

This is going to be an interesting festival.

[Christiana]

No family is going to hire the best possible, as any parent should.

[Trevor Noah]

This is gonna be the biggest case ever. Cristiano's gonna be at the courthouse, by the way, with a giant sign that says, take it off.

[Josh]

I do think one last thing about the McDonald's worker that turned that dude in. This is probably way off base, but I think in their mind, they're like, okay, people miss all the time. And Trump did just work at McDonald's for 15 minutes somewhere else. What if that man. What if this dude knows something? I don' I want to catch anything at the crosshairs at the Friar station.

[Christiana]

Do you know what? I'm curious about the McDonald's employee. I would love to hear from them.

[Trevor Noah]

I think everybody.

[Christiana]

That's the real third act in this story.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, you think that's the real third act?

[Christiana]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, interesting.

[Christiana]

Yeah, I'm just. Cause they're a polarizing person.

[Trevor Noah]

I feel like that's the epilogue.

[Christiana]

Yeah. People say if it was Popeyes, they would have been, like, giving him more chicken and sent him on his way.

[Trevor Noah]

I think, you know, one of the great. I mean, irony might be the wrong word about this, but I was thinking to myself, it's so amazing how almost unanimous. All the CEOs of these companies, literally, they pulled down their photos, they sent. Did you see the emails they sent to employees?

[Christiana]

No, I didn't.

[Trevor Noah]

Healthcare companies have been sending, not manifest. What do you call them? Like, pledges to their employees to sign. And the pledges, like, I stand with my fellow healthcare community and I believe that no violence should ever be committed against them. I pledge my allegiance to the healthcare company that I work for. Insert name here. Like, literally, that's what they're going with. And then none of them went to work, and it was a whole thing. And I was like, it's funny how now CEOs are like, yeah, yeah, work from home. Work from home.

[Christiana]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

They were fully like, no, no, no. Everyone's gotta be back in the office. And then very quickly, they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Sometimes. Sometimes you gotta work from home, man. You know, sometimes things happen in your life, and, yeah, you just got to chill. Josh, I have a question for you that's a little controversial. If you on the jury, what are you. What's your verdict?

[Josh]

Oh, okay. Do we know what he's been charged with? Besides murder?

[Trevor Noah]

No, let's just say he's charged with murder. That's all I know.

[Josh]

Oh, okay, here's my thing.

[Trevor Noah]

I loving this already.

[Josh]

I would find him. Yes. I would probably end up finding him not guilty by reason of insanity.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay. Okay, Christiana. So she's gonna find him heart guilty.

[Christiana]

No.

[Josh]

Oh, he did it.

[Christiana]

My husband was like, yesterday. He was like, you're talking about this guy? Do you think he's better looking than me? I was like, absolutely not, babe.

[Trevor Noah]

What are you talking about?

[Christiana]

That's what Louis said to me. I was like, but he doesn't have a beard. I wonder how he'd look with a beard. But back to the matter at hand. Can jury make sentencing recommendations?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

Remember, you know, I'm an abolitionist.

[Trevor Noah]

I think they can in certain cases, depending on where.

[Christiana]

So I would find him guilty?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

But I'd give him probation. Oh, I'd give him probation.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn. That came out of nowhere.

[Christiana]

I would give him five years probation.

[Trevor Noah]

Because you would argue that he's not a risk.

[Christiana]

Because I actually don't think prison doesn't work. All the research shows prison doesn't work. And I don't feel like he's a danger to other people. Like, you know, I believe in which other people, you know, people like myself.

[Josh]

Listen.

[Christiana]

Oh, my goodness.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, okay.

[Christiana]

He was reading books by black authors. Go through his Goodreads, you know.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Christiana]

He's okay with my. I would. No, but, like, I. But I say this about, like, murder's a horrible thing. Like, I experienced it in my family earlier this year, and it's been the first time I actually really had to think about, like, being an abolitionist and how I feel. So when it came to my family, you know, everyone feels differently about it. Like, some people are, like, they need to spend forever in prison. I do think if prison does what it's supposed to do for people, you should go there and be restored and hopefully be let back into society. So that's why I would find him guilty because he did take a life. He did commit that murder. Maybe it's time. Serve some time. And then the rest, probation. Because honestly, to the kids of the man. He's not the CEO of a health insurance company. He's your dad.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

And they have to live without their dad.

[Trevor Noah]

This is true.

[Christiana]

You know? And so it's just like, I think there should be something in place because we have to have some value for life. Even lives I despise. I'm like, your life has value, Right? So I'm like, I'd find him guilty, maybe serve some time, but I don't think he should spend the rest of his life in prison. Which I think for a lot of murderers, shouldn't spend the rest of her life in prison. But, you know, a long time. Like 20 years, 30 years.

[Josh]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

That's your life.

[Christiana]

No, it's not.

[Trevor Noah]

That's your life.

[Christiana]

He is like a hot 22.

[Trevor Noah]

That's your life.

[Christiana]

He's gonna come out of me in his 40s.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm just gonna put it out there.

[Christiana]

George Clooney era. But it's not. No, I'm just saying Norway and Sweden.

[Trevor Noah]

Don'T even do a life sentence as 22.

[Christiana]

I can't say the sentence. Cause I don't. You know, I can't say the same. I think he should, because also he should, like, kind of sit down and think about what he wants to do next.

[Trevor Noah]

I think he did when he was carving the bullets.

[Christiana]

But, you know, and then probation. And not like punitive probation. Probation with a view of, like, you can now contribute something to society apart from.

[Trevor Noah]

And people would argue he already did.

[Christiana]

He did. But like, in the positive way. Not like additionally addition by subtraction, but like some addition. You know what I mean? But that's my view on people who kill.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Christiana]

And also, I feel like if he was a black guy, we'd probably be having a different conversation right now. So, you know.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. Okay.

[Josh]

Trevor, I'm so sorry.

[Christiana]

That's my view on it.

[Josh]

Do you mind? Based off of Christiana's brilliant answer, I think I need to change my answer. Whoa, whoa.

[Trevor Noah]

What are you talking about?

[Josh]

Yeah, Yeah. I would probably find him guilty.

[Christiana]

Wow.

[Josh]

And I would sentence him to be the CEO of a healthcare company. That's so easy when you gotta do it, bruh.

[Christiana]

What about you, Trevor?

[Trevor Noah]

So if the back pain thing is real and if some of the stories are true, and if his lawyer very creatively argued self defense, I would have a difficult time sending him to prison. Because I think one of the hardest things we grapple with in society is, again, I come back to how we started. I myself wish to live by the rules and the laws that everyone else does. But I do believe we live in a society where that isn't true. And I believe the more power you amass, the more pain you can inflict on other people. And you're not held to the same laws and the same punishments as everybody else. And so it is difficult because we ourselves are in the thing that we are trying to, in many ways, reshape and dismantle. So it's like. It's confusing because you're in it, Right? But if somebody is unable or is. If their life is being threatened by this nebulous entity, and they're like, this is the only way I can protect myself and others, I would struggle to find them guilty based on the evidence. And a lot of that evidence, for me, would be based on, like, this company. Have we shown that they actively try to not pay for people's health care? How many people have died because of their practices? Are they actively doing this? For instance, like, they had that AI software a while ago where they had AI that was basically approving or denying claims. And the numbers I say might be off, but I think I remember them correctly, this thing was denying, like, 90% of the claims that were coming through.

[Christiana]

Crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

And then they found that it was making a mistake and they kept it. They kept it because they were just like, well, we're just printing money here. And that's just one example of what this company has been accused of or found guilty of, or. Do you know What I mean? $400 billion in profit or whatever, or revenue. It's like they've been crushing it. So I do not wish for the death of anyone. But I'm like, you. The thing has happened now. Right. But it's a difficult one for me to wrestle with because I do think we live in a world where some people with the right tools and everything can take anyone out. And if they are blanketed by enough corporations and ideas, then they are seen as a. You know, maybe I just see it.

[Christiana]

From his family side, like his parents, his siblings and his children.

[Trevor Noah]

Completely.

[Christiana]

And you're like, his life had some value to them. Completely. Because, like, for me, my kids. Your parents, aren't their jobs, like, even Saddam Hussein's kids.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, completely.

[Christiana]

I love my dad, Osama. You know, like these, like, very horrific people.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Christiana]

And if we believe, like, all life has inherent values.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. But I'm arguing that the value of his life is now not going to be cause. Remember, I'm also an abolitionist. Remember, for me, it's based on this. Does he have a direct connection with this company? And were they doing something to him directly? That, for me, has a big effect on it. Because I then go, hmm, it is difficult for me to then go. Cause someone would be like, yes, but if you have a problem with the company, take them to court. Good luck. Go, go try it. You get what I'm saying?

[Christiana]

I'm trying to figure out the ways we hold this young man who's done this thing, which.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, for me, which is like, he'll go to therapy and we shut him.

[Christiana]

Down and make him accountable. Because I just don't think you should be able to kill people.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know what I mean? I don't think so either. But I think he's already going to be held more accountable than every CEO of company. And remember, this is a clear thing I want to add in this conversation is I think all three of us agree here. This is not about being a CEO. By the way, CEO is like a loose title. People have it on their healthcare dating profiles. So CEO is the thing that I think can sometimes muddy it. I think people should just ask themselves, like, you know, from a corporation standpoint, from an organizational standpoint, like, why. Why is it, okay, let's say, for the US Government to go in and kill, like, El Chapo or Osama bin Laden? Why do they do that? Yeah, why do they do that? Right? They do it because they go, look, we know that many people are involved in this organization that is taking people's lives. But we figure if we can get to this person who's the head of the organization, we're making the biggest difference, and that is what we're doing. And then we, and I say we as the collective, Most people do not go, oh, the American government murdered Osama bin Laden. I say that. Okay, you say that. But most people do not. They'll be like, no, no, no, they went after the guy and they got him. Okay? Or they. And El Chapo's alive. But do you get what I'm saying? They'll go like, oh, yeah, they shot Pablo Escobar. People won't be like, oh, they murdered him. They're like, no, no, no, it was a chase. They got him on the roof. They shot the dude. Okay? And so I'm saying, in a weird way here, I'm saying on a jury, by the way. Yeah, yeah, I'm not condoning I'm not agreeing with because everyone has a different way to solve their issues. Right. I would probably just tweet a lot. I'm just gonna put it out there. I would send very, like, scathing tweets and see if I can get a response. He chose a different method. We can't go back on that method. And so I would probably vote that the case is either like, yeah, thrown out, or it would just be a not guilty or like a. Yeah, there's probably other ones. They give you on, like, that piece of paper. I forget what all of them are from Law and Order, but I'll just be like, yeah, Judge. You know, we find the defendant, man, pretty messed up. This was all messed up. So that's how I see it.

[Christiana]

It's gonna be the trial of the century.

[Trevor Noah]

It really will.

[Christiana]

Let's be honest.

[Josh]

Yeah. I mean, can you imagine if that kid had Blue Cross Blue Shield? Oh, wait, that CEO would be like.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, oh, oh, man. It is.

[Josh]

You're right. United is terrible. Sign up with Blue Cross Blue Shield this month.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Well, you know what, my friends, this is. These are some of my favorite conversations to have with you because we have.

[Christiana]

No facts, just feelings.

[Trevor Noah]

Just feelings. All speculation. And if you have listened to this entire conversation, remember what I told you at the beginning. None of this is true. None of this is confirmed. None of this is factual. And Josh, Christiana, and Trevor do not stand behind anything that Josh, Christiana, and Trevor have said. This is our disclaimer. But, yeah, thanks for listening. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jody Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackl. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of what Now.