Vic Mensa: The Power of Perspective

Summary

What Now? with Trevor Noah

Episode: Vic Mensa: The Power of Perspective

Date: April 30, 2026
Host: Trevor Noah
Guest: Vic Mensa (with Eugene, Dave, and others appearing throughout)

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes rapper, activist, and online commentator Vic Mensa for a candid and humorous discussion that weaves between personal anecdotes, racial and class identity, internet culture, global politics, and the journey of creative self-expression. Through playful banter and probing questions, Trevor and Vic examine how environment, privilege, and historical context shape identity and voice. The conversation is immersive, insightful, and sprinkled with both levity and depth, giving listeners a unique look into Vic’s evolving perspective and the complexity of navigating modern discourse online.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Robberies, Stories, and Humility

• The episode begins with a humorous recounting of being robbed by a crackhead on a bicycle (Vic’s story), leading to comedic riffing on the indignity of such a whimsical crime and how it plays with one’s sense of pride.
  • “The worst thing about being robbed by somebody on a bicycle is … it's a very whimsical way to be robbed.” – Trevor (24:22)
  • “I found some crack. … They try to give me some crack. … I learned a valuable lesson, which was don't be trying to stunt in someone else's environment, because you just don't know what challenges you may face.” – Vic Mensa (24:42)

2. Cultural Context & Fluidity of Identity

• The group explores racial identity across continents and cultures, from American “Blackness” to South African “coloured” and Ghanaian “Obroni” (foreigner/white man).
  • Vic notes the shifting perceptions: “In South Africa ... people are considering me to be colored … When I go to Ghana, they call me Obroni.” (13:52)
  • Trevor highlights the social construction of race and how its reality shifts with perspective.

3. Class vs. Race

• They examine how class often underlies racial discussions, both in America and Africa.
  • “When you peel back metaphorically and literally the layers, class is the one thing that emerges constantly and consistently and it's not going anywhere.” – Trevor (71:41)
  • “Class distinction in South Africa ... Have you seen how so shocking how white people in South Africa will treat a white beggar? … Worse than them [Black beggar].” – Vic Mensa (72:48)

4. Privilege, Perspective, and Evolution

• Vic reflects on growing up biracial, his Ghanaian family, and the privileges and oppressions he carries simultaneously.
  • “I'm living as both the fucking result of a lot of privilege in the midst of a lot of oppression at the same time.” – Vic Mensa (119:29)
• There is an open admission of evolving views:
  • “I think at the end of the day, I'm trying to be real, honest, authentic. And when I learn new information, I want to be able to adjust.” – Vic Mensa (137:25)

5. Internet Culture & Responsibility of Influence

• Trevor and Vic discuss the perils and power of online platforms, fragmentation of message, and the tendency for people to create just for virality versus purpose.
  • “What I love about what you do is you haven’t reduced yourself to a caricature. You just … don’t seem to try to pour fuel on any fire.” – Trevor (135:27)

6. Political Rhetoric, Class Warfare, and Power

• Analysis of Julius Malema and the limits of revolutionary politics in a democracy.
  • “Can you claim to give somebody their freedom if you do not give them the tools to actually exercise that freedom?” – Trevor (62:03)
• The deep links between global power, imperialism, and persistent corruption are unpacked, particularly in the context of Africa and global geopolitics.
  • “But then it’s so insidious because it leaves the idea ... that you were the source of the corruption that led to your current state of destitution. But really it’s still the puppet master.” – Vic Mensa (81:22)

7. Historical Memory & Activist Legacies

• Discussion about the evolution and sanitized memory of civil rights leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X.
  • “MLK spent like a huge amount of his time speaking about class … rattling the cage.” – Trevor (123:08)
  • “Martin Luther King really became an immense danger when he started talking about a poor people’s movement… when you shift to a focus on class, that’s when they become a real fucking threat to the power structure.” – Vic Mensa (124:15)

8. Personal Growth & Intrusive Thoughts

• Reflections on temper, reputation, and learning to moderate one’s responses as maturity develops.
  • Vic describes his Gemini nature and the challenge of not always acting on intense emotions:
    “My process ... is to learn not to be a slave to my nature … to have the discipline to not act out my fucking intrusive thoughts at all times.” (110:43)
• A recurring inside joke emerges about WhatsApp call rings and the confusion of technology.

9. Vic Mensa’s Creative Process & Future

• Vic’s viral “orange tree” videos and their cultural impact, along with plans for a show and a new album “Mansa Musa Mensah,” inspired by his son and his Ghanaian roots.
  • “I started doing [the orange tree videos] because I didn’t have the funding to put the album out the way I wanted...What can I do in the meantime … to connect to people...I landed there.” (134:25)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “How much risk should a society be willing to take for the potential of the great talents?” – Trevor (08:15)
• “Americans live in a constant fear of missing the moment. But being in the moment is the way to not miss the moment.” – Vic Mensa (29:18)
• “At the end of the day, I’m trying to be real, honest, authentic. And when I learn new information, I want to be able to adjust.” – Vic Mensa (137:25)
• “I always thought that we forget the real source of corruption, because we’re made to believe that it’s homegrown. But it’s imported, and exported, and brokered.” – Vic Mensa (79:22)
• “If you just fixate on the racial dimensions of things without realizing how they’re a front for the actual class struggle … this is a lifetime pursuit. You’ll just be frustrated about racism for the rest of your motherfucking life.” – Vic Mensa (121:51)
• “I don’t think you should ever take for granted that everything about you … there’s no one else like you doing that. So when that vessel presents that video, that message and that story, someone can’t be like, ‘yeah, but of course you would say this coming from Connecticut.’” – Trevor (117:40)
• “Sometimes I feel like it is safer for a society to collectively believe in a lie that moves them in the same direction ... than for everyone to just have their own reality.” – Trevor (101:27)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 13:52 – Vic on race in Ghana, South Africa, and the US; the meaning of “Obroni”
• 24:42 – The comedic saga of chasing a crackhead on a bike after a phone theft
• 29:12 – Life in Ghana and the ‘decolonizing’ of time
• 43:49 – Vic’s orange tree videos, authenticity in message, and online fragmentation
• 62:03 – Trevor elaborates on Julius Malema and the complicated post-apartheid struggle for economic justice in South Africa
• 71:41 – The shift from race to class as the core problem
• 81:22 – Europe’s foundational role in African corruption & puppet-mastering global exploitation
• 123:08 – MLK, race, and class—the legacy and what’s omitted from popular recollection
• 137:25 – Vic on changing one’s public position in light of new info (Iran video reference)
• 134:25 & 135:18 – Vic on his new creative projects and letting various talents merge

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Recurring Themes & Tone

• Conversational, open, and self-aware: Playful in the personal stories, unflinching in the political analysis, and often blurring the lines between humor and gravity.
• Evolving, self-critical honesty: Vic Mensa models public learning and unlearning, refusing performative certainty for growth.
• Global Black Experience: Fluid comparisons of Blackness, privilege, and systemic structures across the US, Africa, and the broader diaspora.
• The power and peril of platforms: A reflection on the responsibility around going viral, retractions, and refusing to become an online caricature.

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For New Listeners

This episode is wide-ranging but always intimate and human. If you’re interested in the intersections of internet culture, Black identity across continents, how class overlays race, and the evolution of artistic voice, this is a masterclass in both candor and perspective. And if you want to understand why Vic Mensa’s “orange tree” videos matter—and why peeling oranges became a meme—this is an essential listen.

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Listen for:

• The philosophical deconstruction of time, privilege, and class (29:12, 119:29)
• The story of the viral orange tree videos and what makes them resonate (43:49, 134:25)
• How to handle criticism and public retraction gracefully (137:25)
• Deep dives into political reality, race, and the subversions of power (62:03, 81:22, 124:15)
• Humor in the face of hardship (from crackhead bike robbers to WhatsApp call drama)

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For all who crave both laughter and depth, “The Power of Perspective” is a celebration of honesty, complexity, and growth—sprinkled with citrus and truth bombs alike.

Transcript

[Trevor Noah]

The worst thing about being robbed by somebody on a bicycle is, is that it's a very whimsical way to be robbed. Do you know what I mean? Because, like, if you get robbed at gunpoint, it makes you feel like you were part of something meaningful, something extreme. Yeah. So if someone pulls out a gun

[Eugene]

and they're like, give me.

[Trevor Noah]

Give me your phone. Give me your wallet.

[Eugene]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

But even after it happens, if. Let's say if people were watching you, there's a certain amount of bravado that you get to maintain for surviving a gunshot. Wow, man. I can't believe you got robbed. I saw what happened, and you were there, and you had to put your hands up and the person. Or even a knife. You know? You know what I mean?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

When you get robbed by somebody on a bicycle, it is one of. Because just think of a bicycle, and then the person grabs your phone. You said you were on a FaceTime.

[Vic Mensa]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So now they're on a FaceTime with this person.

[Vic Mensa]

I never thought about that.

[Dave]

So one minute, you, as Vic, are

[Trevor Noah]

like, man, let me tell you what I'm doing out here. Let me tell you what I'm doing out here. This is what now with Trevor Noah. All right, Eugene, let's play a little game. You know, make something fun. Two truths and a lie. Here we go. One, I've had to tell a world leader that their fly was undone. Two, when getting dressed, I don't do so sock, sock, shoe, shoe. I do sock, shoe, sock, shoe. Three, I've been a Verizon customer for 11 years. What do you think?

[Eugene]

Very confused. First of all, why would a world leader own a fly? Because those things just come uninvited. Secondly, lying to your friends is not cool. There's never been a game.

[Trevor Noah]

No, Eugene. Fly is for, like, the zip is what? And then it's not a lie. It's a game where I'm trying to. It's like I give you information. Okay? I lied. All three are true, Eugene. And in case you were thinking, you know, Verizon isn't as expensive as you think. In fact, if you bring in your AT&T or T mobile bill, they'll give you a better deal. And the reason I've been with them for this long is just because I travel so much, I need a network that's reliable. That's right. A better deal on the best network with the most ways to save on plans, streaming, and phone deals. Take your AT&T or T mobile bill to your local Verizon store today. Get Your better deal and start saving for real based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US 2nd Half 2025. All rights reserved. You must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. So do you understand how two truths. And do you understand it now?

[Eugene]

I understand that you didn't have to lie first before telling me that Verizon is the best.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I wasn't lying, Eugene. It's not a lie. I wouldn't lie to you. It's a game. Okay, I'm sorry I lied. Ah. What's a booster?

[Dave]

Somebody that steal clothes from a store and sell at a discount price.

[Trevor Noah]

It's like community service. I Love Boosters is the must see movie of the summer, starring Keke Palmer

[Eugene]

and Demi Moore in a crazy heist

[Dave]

comedy set in the cutthroat fashion world.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

The Velvet Gang.

[Trevor Noah]

They're boosting from my stores.

[Dave]

Critics are hailing I Love Boosters as wildly hilarious and outrageous, provocative and really fun. Come on, let's take all of it. I Love Boosters. Rated r in theaters May 22nd. Get tickets now.

[Eugene]

Yo, you know what happened yesterday? So I unintentionally bought a new iPhone.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, before you guys carry on, can I just say, you guys look like you got the same style memo, and then I was excluded from this.

[Eugene]

When you think I don't research so

[Trevor Noah]

you dress like this for Vic.

[Vic Mensa]

It's the South African version.

[Eugene]

I was like, if I find an orange, the guest will never know the difference.

[Trevor Noah]

No, we should have got. I don't. I don't know if you've. If this is because of you. I don't want to say it's because of you. And I haven't forgotten the iPhone thing. We're going to come back to it. I have experienced an extreme citrus craving. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not. Yo. Okay. He's my witness. Cause he sees my fridge. My fridge always has watermelon in it. Always, always, always. Now I have copious amounts of citrus. And I wonder, I genuinely wonder if it's partly because of you.

[Vic Mensa]

You'll never get sick.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. But I just wonder if, like, you've

[Eugene]

sort of, you know, subconsciously influenced.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've created like a. I need to

[Vic Mensa]

get a royalty from the.

[Trevor Noah]

You could get sponsored by, like, big orange or something.

[Eugene]

After, it can go to avocados.

[Vic Mensa]

That's the real money.

[Dave]

Can you imagine Vic pulling an avocado off the tree?

[Eugene]

First of all, the tree would Be

[Dave]

pulling an avocado off the tree.

[Vic Mensa]

That's the real bread, the avocado.

[Eugene]

You have to get a knife.

[Dave]

No, no, no, no. He still has to use his hands.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, be mashed all over the place, smeared on my face.

[Eugene]

And then, you know, once an avocado gets exposed, turns brown, and then you've

[Vic Mensa]

been there for long, nasty.

[Trevor Noah]

Now you can only.

[Dave]

You can only. You can only talk about short topics.

[Vic Mensa]

Sure. It's like, you know, and you can't waste the avocado. Like, $10 a pop.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, the guy's talking deep about Iran. I think it's turning brown in his hand.

[Eugene]

Expensive avocados are American problem.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, you don't. You don't struggle with that?

[Trevor Noah]

No, we don't. It's actually interesting. There are some things that cost a fortune in some countries, and in other countries. A friend of mine who grew up in Zimbabwe, like, born and raised their whole family, she was telling me the other day her grandmother still refers to avocados as poverty food. So when they're in London as a family, and they go to a fancy restaurant, and then they come with, like, an avocado with blah, blah. And then the mom literally is just like, why? The grandmother, she's like, why are we eating poverty food? And then they try and explain to her, they're like, no, avocados in London cost a fortune. In New York, they cost a fortune.

[Eugene]

So I unintentionally bought an iPhone because I. I got in there. And then usually, like, when you go to a store, there'll be a price underneath the item that you want to buy. So what they do at the I store here is the price is on the phone. So remember, you used to go on the iPhone, and there'll be selfies of people that have taken pictures of themselves.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, wait, wait. So you.

[Eugene]

When you touch it.

[Trevor Noah]

This was me.

[Vic Mensa]

This was you as a child? Yeah, I used to just hang out in the Apple Store and just, like, take selfies.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you were one of those people rapping in the.

[Vic Mensa]

In the.

[Eugene]

So now the phone's.

[Vic Mensa]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I got so many photos of myself. Me and all my friends hanging out in the Apple Store making faces, like, throwing up gang signs.

[Trevor Noah]

Did you record stuff as well?

[Vic Mensa]

Yes, I used to.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no. I used to see kids. No joke. I used to see kids in the Apple Store on the imac. Making an album.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, yeah, I recorded raps on there. All type of shit.

[Trevor Noah]

No one threw you out, right?

[Vic Mensa]

They did throw us out.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay.

[Vic Mensa]

And then we Came back.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you know where those albums are? Do you know where the music is? Facebook.

[Vic Mensa]

Like, all buried secrets.

[Trevor Noah]

I feel like they shouldn't throw you out. I feel like that should be part of, like, the Apple Stores. How can I explain it? If you create, like, a subculture within an Apple Store that people come in to try and create things so that they can blow up, I argue that's one of the greatest marketing campaigns. That's. That's.

[Vic Mensa]

It's tight.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean? There's, like a cool vibe to you.

[Eugene]

Could.

[Trevor Noah]

That guy in the corner could be the next big thing. That girl over there singing into the little iPhone microphone, she could be the next big thing. And then Apple just has this as like a. Yeah, you never know.

[Eugene]

Yeah, but once it becomes a thing, people will spend too much time there.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, yeah. Racism, too.

[Eugene]

So now I just.

[Vic Mensa]

A bunch of little black kids like, you can't take chances with the talent they may have. The present threat, you know, outweighs the potential for talent.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, I like that line, though. The present threat. What did you say?

[Eugene]

Human potential.

[Vic Mensa]

I said it outweighs the potential for talent in the mind of society, for sure.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, man.

[Eugene]

That's actually deep as fuck.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that's actually deep on so many levels, because how much risk should a society be willing to take for the potential of the great talents? Do you know what I mean? Like, if you were. It's easy for us to say it from, like, an institutional point of view, but, like, let's say you saw something in your kid that was scary, but could go on to become the greatest thing ever. Do you hinder that?

[Vic Mensa]

I see it in my kid now. He just smacked somebody in the face yesterday.

[Eugene]

You're like, ufc?

[Vic Mensa]

I'm like, yeah, this guy's a fighter. It could be a champion, but. But he just smacked his mom in the face, too.

[Trevor Noah]

So how do you. How do you deal with that? Cause on our side of the world, that. That's not a story that could be told in that way.

[Eugene]

In what way?

[Trevor Noah]

The way you just told the story. Seems like that is the conclusion of it. Right? My kid, or I'm assuming what happened afterwards.

[Vic Mensa]

So he is a Taurus, which I'm learning is really the bull. Like, they're very stubborn.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

My father's a tourist, but he's patient and maybe a different kind of Taurus. My son is like me, but a Taurus. And so he's, like, coming to blows with things. You know what I'm saying? And now he's in Daycare. So those things are people. And he sees other kids that have toys. He doesn't have any siblings, doesn't really know sharing.

[Trevor Noah]

How old is he?

[Vic Mensa]

He's about to be 2, 3.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, he's about to be 2 next year.

[Eugene]

Sounds like a 2, 3 old pro.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, for sure. And he sees kids with toys. He wants their toy. He tries to take it. The kid doesn't want him to take it. He hits my girlfriend comes to try to correct him. Mansa. His name's Mansa. Musa said, mansa, you need to apologize to this kid. His. Her too.

[Eugene]

So does he have the full name? Mansa Musa.

[Vic Mensa]

Mansa Musa Mensa or just Mansa only? Mansa Musa Mensah, Triple M. And my Ghanaian cousins, they call him 3M.

[Eugene]

That used to be a scam in South.

[Vic Mensa]

They've recently started to call him my.

[Trevor Noah]

Who calls him this at daycare?

[Eugene]

That's why people are getting smacked down.

[Dave]

Stop it.

[Vic Mensa]

My Ghanaian cousins. I don't know what happened. It's like, so once he hit two, and now I post pictures of him, and they respond in my story, like, my little nigga is getting so big. And me and my girl are like, what?

[Trevor Noah]

It has a different vibe in Africa, though. Yeah, it's just like a.

[Vic Mensa]

You know, it's funny because they just don't know how to use it right.

[Trevor Noah]

No, that's. That's what I was about to say Tuesday in South Africa.

[Vic Mensa]

No, but in South Africa, South Africans too. I mean, South Africans too. I mean, it don't sound right when y' all say it.

[Trevor Noah]

No, it's true. We say. We will even say. We will say abo, my nigger, which refers often to, like, African Americans in hip hop.

[Vic Mensa]

What does abo, my nigga mean?

[Trevor Noah]

It means, like the plural of like. It's like all of my niggas. No, no, no, no.

[Eugene]

Those niggas.

[Trevor Noah]

The my niggas.

[Vic Mensa]

Yes, the my niggas.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Vic Mensa]

Abo means.

[Trevor Noah]

The abo is like. Yeah, it's the collective.

[Vic Mensa]

The collective of my niggas.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. So it's like saying guys from over there. Yeah, but it can also be the guys in South Africa as well. No, no, no, no, no, it's not. It's not. Because it can be guys in South Africa as well.

[Dave]

I'm crazy about that.

[Vic Mensa]

Coincide with Ubuntu does.

[Dave]

Pause for one second. Am I on? Are you listening to what I'm saying? Pause for one second. This kind of talk that you guys are having, it skips the general white market and goes to that white other. White market. You know what I mean? White market.

[Eugene]

That's abu my.

[Vic Mensa]

So it's not racist.

[Trevor Noah]

It's not racist at all.

[Vic Mensa]

Cause you're a nigga.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no, no. So let me explain. No, no, let me explain. Let me explain. So let me explain. So what. So what happens sometimes that I think that I think is beautiful is as a. It's funny, sort of like the avocado thing we're talking about. So as words move around from place to place, as ideas move around from place to place, they take on a different meaning that can be similar but not the same. Right. So the N word is a great example of that. Because it was never used in Africa. It doesn't have the same weight, even though people understand it through a historical context and through a current context. Right. But because there's also a cultural difference, in South Africa, many of us grew up influenced by hip hop culture. Right. And one of the things, before you could even, like, speak English, I remember my cousin would be like, rapper rapping along to Tupac. And then one of the things you'd say, he'd be like, yo, yo, my man. Yo, yo, my man. Yo, yo, my nigga. Then you just say that. That's what you just knew you have to say to be in hip hop.

[Eugene]

Those two words were used interchangeably.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. My man and my nigga. Then what happened was, over time, if you were. If you were somebody who was in hip hop, you were then referred to by people who weren't in hip hop as abo, my nigga. So they would say it for.

[Eugene]

No, first it was, ah, my nigger.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that's true. I'm a nigga. That's true. Which is plural.

[Eugene]

The rappers.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, the rappers wearing durags. Yeah.

[Eugene]

Oversized FUBU shirts.

[Trevor Noah]

And then. And there's. There's no. And there's no. It's not.

[Vic Mensa]

There's a thin line between.

[Eugene]

But it's also. It's also how you say it. If you say, I'm a nigger. Yeah, I'm a nigger.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Now it's.

[Trevor Noah]

That's the one.

[Eugene]

So it's got an. It's got a double E. Yeah, that's

[Trevor Noah]

the one that's dope. Yeah, that's the one that's dope. That's like, ah, man.

[Vic Mensa]

It makes me think about how I learned that race is a false concept and that it's fictitious. I mean, growing up in America, obviously, I grew up as a black man, black boy before that, at some point was Considered biracial, but that kind of fades. And when I went to South Africa, though, and I'm meeting colored people with the ou. You know what I mean? And this is a completely different societal distinction. And I realized that people are considering me to be colored and that I'm not black. And I'm like, no, I'm black. They're like, you're absolutely not black. You know, and it's such a different distinction of what is black versus what is not black in South Africa. Then when I go to Ghana, they call me Obroni. Oberoni means white man. It means foreigner, but it also has a slightly, like, praised connotation in a colonial sense.

[Trevor Noah]

Shawn Gambler.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? And so it's like a foreigner, but it's a bit uplifted.

[Trevor Noah]

It's an exalted foreigner.

[Vic Mensa]

It's an exalted foreigner.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

And they'll call me a white man. So I'm in this house where I'm staying, and the man who works in the home sees that I'm about to go outside. It's like 9pm I'm trying to go find some food. Ghana's very safe, you know what I'm saying? So I'm gonna go find some food. I'm like, you know, putting on my shit. And he's like, where are you going? I said, I'm about to go get some food. He said, ghanaians. I do not like when white people go out at night. And I'm like, me, white people go out at night. I'm like, if you don't get the fuck out of my way. Like, I'm from Chicago. I'm from a very dangerous place. Like, I'm going outside. But I thought that was so funny to me, that I was so not a black person.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

In a Ghanaian context like that. I was enough of a white person that I should be fearful for going outside alone at night. Yeah. And I'm. Yeah, I went, of course. But I didn't find shit. They don't have nothing going on at 9pm in Ghana. It's not even like that.

[Trevor Noah]

But. Can I ask you a question? You know, it's funny you say that thing. Do you ever wonder whether or not the bona fides you have where you're from holed up in another place? Because you see what you just said, you're like, I'm from Chicago. I don't. You know.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I sometimes think about that. I go here.

[Eugene]

There's machetes. Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

But no, for real.

[Eugene]

Chicago again.

[Vic Mensa]

I went to Jamaica, man. One time I got to Jamaica, you know what I'm saying? And my flight was kind of disrupted. I had the wrong passport. My manager gave me his passport. I'm sitting in the airport for like 16 hours. I'm frustrated. I try to sneak in the shit, all type of shit. When I eventually made it there, I got a chip on my shoulder. Cause I'm like, this was a three day long trip and I spent the day.

[Trevor Noah]

And you've already rocked 16 hours.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, I spent the first fucking day in a fucking Montego Bay airport. And so I get there. You know, when you're in Jamaica, many places that local guys will just try to accompany you to get tips, you know what I'm saying? And so the local guy, he jumps in the car, he's like, oh, I'm gonna tell you where you're going. You're going this way, you know? And I'm like, okay. And we get there, and eventually he wants his tip, you know, and. And once again, my Chicago thing is, Is clicks on. And as I feel like he's kind of trying to strong arm me into this tip, I'm like, what the fuck is you talking about? I'm from Chicago. You not finna, you know what I'm saying? Strong arm me out of shit. And. And later that day, though, I went to the hotel pool and I'm. I'm like, man, you know what? Let me inspect the validity of this I'm from Chicago claim in Jamaica.

[Eugene]

When did you tip him?

[Vic Mensa]

No, I didn't tip him that time, but I looked up the murder rate of. I looked up the murder rate of Jamaica. I was like, I'm tipping everybody. I mean, the tip would have been like 25 cents. I was like, these niggas would kill me. They be telling me, I'm from Jamaica, you better give me what I'm asking for. Jamaican 10 times faster than you'll kill us.

[Eugene]

You Google Jamaican meter rate and exchange rate.

[Vic Mensa]

You like, this is not worth it. Did the computation, and I realized I'm 10 times more likely to get killed by them than they are by me. And the tip is like 10 cents in total.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, I won't lie. I know it's an ignorant point of view to have, but I. I never understand it when I'm in Jamaica. So Jamaicans, Jamaicans will warn me. So when I was in Jamaica, it's funny, our flight was disrupted, so we were supposed to fly out of Montego. And then they were like, no, you Gotta go to Kingston so you can get out. Cause flights had changed. And then when we were in Kingston, someone was like. They're like, you don't wanna. You don't wanna go anywhere. They're like, don't. Yeah. Cause I was like, oh, I've never been to Kingston. I was like, I'm gonna go walk around and see that. And he's like, you can't. You can't do this.

[Vic Mensa]

You can't do that.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. He's like, you can't do that.

[Eugene]

I hate it when people do that.

[Trevor Noah]

And I was like, what do you mean, I can't. Then he's like, it's not safe for you to walk around. And I was like, yo, I'm go. I was like, I'm from Johannesburg. I did the same thing. I was like, I'm from Johannesburg. And then I. That's when I had the realization. I went, aha. That's the mistake you're making. You're from Johannesburg. So you assume your street smarts hold up in this place. You assume that your tactics hold up in this place. But now you're coming here with, like, avocado mentality. And then the people here are just gonna be like, nah.

[Eugene]

But that's the thing with being black. It's. It almost like it goes with anything. You can either blend in or stick out. So when you're in Europe and you're black, you're like, ah, I stick out. But when you're in anywhere where there's black people in Africa, in America, you're like, yeah. Cause I make the mistake of speaking to African Americans. Like, they know what I'm saying.

[Vic Mensa]

Like, I understand you.

[Eugene]

Like, exactly. They know what I'm saying. I'm like, eugene will literally do that, by the way. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Eugene will switch into African languages all the time with African Americans. Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

There's one day. And then you said to a guy, you're like.

[Vic Mensa]

And then I said, eugene, he doesn't

[Trevor Noah]

understand what you're saying.

[Vic Mensa]

I get that. Because when I just saw a glimpse of you on the screen in the back room, I didn't know you were South African until you spoke.

[Trevor Noah]

You just stop speaking.

[Vic Mensa]

I can tell. I can always tell. I can always identify the Africans. It's just. I can. But, like, sometimes in that first moment, that glimpse might not give me the whole picture. You know what I'm saying?

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, Eugene. Where would you think Eugene's from? Does he look like he's from a part of Philly?

[Vic Mensa]

What, Philadelphia? Till he did that.

[Dave]

Till he did that.

[Eugene]

I think, what's wrong with him?

[Vic Mensa]

He stood up. I saw his butt. I mean, like, this guy's from South Africa. Thickest man on the planet. A gay man would be in heaven coming to South Africa. He couldn't get his eyes to his fucking self. Don't let them niggas show up in South Africa. Oh, man. Never go home. No, but you right, though, about going to places and not realizing that you're like, worldview from home doesn't apply. Like, I was in Montreal one time and walking down the street, talking to my buddy on the phone, FaceTime got a French girl with me. I'm stunting. I'm like, yeah, man, you know, niggas out here. I'm real international, you know, I'm doing my thing. You know what I'm saying? And a man rode by me on a bicycle on a road bike. He was just pedaling, and I'm stunting, and the man just grabbed the phone and kept riding fast as hell. I'm so, so stunned, you know what I'm saying? Because this is a very beautiful place. I'm thinking, I can physically overpower anybody that tries to rob me in this place. But I wasn't ready for the crackhead on the bike. And so I chase him, can't catch him. You know what I mean? I go on this wild goose chase to try to find my phone. I'm doing find my iPhone. I trace my shit to a park full of crackheads on bikes. So many crackheads on bikes. I can't distinguish your crackhead. I don't know who's the one. That's my crackhead, Literally. Exactly. I don't know which crackhead is my crackhead. See, this is when it gets racist. But so one of them came out.

[Eugene]

We're finite, too.

[Vic Mensa]

So one of them came out, you know. You know, And I'm like, man, this might be the one, you know? So now I'm racist, you know, I'm like, this might be the one. And so I'm like, man, you know what I'm saying? Did you happen to. You know what I'm saying? Do you got an iPhone? You know? And he pulled out, like, a way older iPhone. He's like, I didn't steal no iPhone. I got. This is an iPhone. Oh, he said, what kind of iPhone? IPhone 13. He said, this is iPhone 6, nigga. I'm crazy. Apologize.

[Eugene]

You know, where's your girl under all of this?

[Vic Mensa]

She actually was riding with me. She was trying to find the phone. Oh, wow. She was Riding with me the whole time. This ain't my girl. You know, I have a girl, but this was a girl.

[Eugene]

Yeah, your iPhone 13, girl.

[Vic Mensa]

IPhone 6 iPhone. And you know, I wouldn't apologize to the nigga. Whatever. I'm trying to find my phone in this crackhead on bike park.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I just say, just to interject there, I'm always intrigued by people who present as crazy, say they are crazy, but then request something that is quite logical.

[Vic Mensa]

An apology, an apology.

[Trevor Noah]

He said I'm crazy.

[Vic Mensa]

Now apologize.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm like, if you were crazy, you

[Dave]

wouldn't care about apologies.

[Eugene]

Also true.

[Dave]

For real.

[Vic Mensa]

It was crazy, though. He was crazy. He was crazy.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't know.

[Eugene]

Wait, so now here you are in

[Vic Mensa]

the park full of crickets, and I didn't find a phone. I found some crack. You know, I tried to get the phone, motherfucker. Like, I don't have your phone, but I have cracked, you know, and they try to give me some crack. And the police come, whatever, and all the crackheads disperse in different directions. I didn't get my phone. But I did learn a valuable lesson, which was don't be trying to stunt in someone else's environment, because you just don't know what challenges you may face. You know what I'm saying? It might not seem as dangerous as the streets of the south side of Chicago, but I didn't know that they rob niggas in different ways in Montreal.

[Trevor Noah]

The worst thing about. The worst thing about being robbed by somebody on a bicycle is that it's a very whimsical way to be robbed. Do you know what I mean? Because, like, if you get robbed at gunpoint, it makes you feel like you were part of something meaningful, something extreme. Yeah. So if someone pulls out a gun

[Eugene]

and they're like, give me to television.

[Trevor Noah]

Give me your phone. Give me your wallet. No. But even after it happens, let's say if people were watching you, there's a certain amount of bravado that you get

[Eugene]

to maintain for surviving a gunshot.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow, man. I can't believe you got robbed. I saw what happened, and you were there, and you had to put your hands up and the person. Or even a knife, you know? You know what I mean? Yeah. When you get robbed by somebody on a bicycle, it is one of. Because just think of a bicycle and then the person grabs your phone. You said you were on a FaceTime.

[Vic Mensa]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

So now they're on a FaceTime with this person.

[Vic Mensa]

I never thought about that.

[Dave]

So one minute, you as Vic, are

[Trevor Noah]

like, man, let me Tell you what I'm doing out here. Let me tell you what I'm doing out here. Now they're riding away, but you're in the background chasing them. Nobody looks cool.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Chasing something that is way faster than them. So when you chase another human being,

[Eugene]

it also looks unrealistic.

[Trevor Noah]

When you chase another. Another human being, you both are running. When someone's riding a bicycle and you're chasing the bicycle, you just look like a child left behind by something like all your swords.

[Vic Mensa]

It's like a clown show. For sure. It is gone. All my swag with the girl was kind of.

[Trevor Noah]

It's gone.

[Eugene]

But I love that she stuck with you more.

[Vic Mensa]

She did.

[Trevor Noah]

No. That's actually really impressive. It almost feel like she was in on it.

[Vic Mensa]

Now I kind of do too, because she then sent me a phone like a handful of years later saying that she had found it. And I don't know, I didn't buy it though.

[Trevor Noah]

I felt like she had found it.

[Vic Mensa]

I feel like she just wanted to come.

[Trevor Noah]

Vic, you got played. Yeah. No, you got played.

[Vic Mensa]

I got played.

[Trevor Noah]

This feels like a. This feels like a scam.

[Vic Mensa]

She's the one that really wants to.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eugene]

No, she found a phone.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you find a phone randomly in another country?

[Eugene]

She's from there.

[Trevor Noah]

She doesn't have his. Find my iPhone.

[Vic Mensa]

She was coordinating with the. You know the shit we get up to in Philly.

[Dave]

Look, man, you told this guy the wrong thing.

[Eugene]

You told.

[Trevor Noah]

So let me ask a question. Does Ghana feel like a version of home now? Because you go. You go there quite a lot.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, Ghana does, man. You know, I mean, I started going to Ghana when I was 11 and so I've like, who.

[Trevor Noah]

Who on your parents?

[Vic Mensa]

My father's ghan.

[Trevor Noah]

So your father's Ghanaian?

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

So I've been going back to Ghana for more years of my life than not. And at this point I've like developed a lot of my own long standing relationships beyond my family.

[Trevor Noah]

I love that.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I mean? And so it definitely. It is home. It's the place I've been most on the planet outside of Chicago and probably LA or something like that. Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

That much for sure.

[Vic Mensa]

Definitely outside of America, it's the place I've been the most.

[Trevor Noah]

What is the thing you find about Ghana that brings you a piece of home that you can't achieve otherwise? I asked this question selfishly because I've started realizing I was talking to Eugene about this the other day. We're walking around in Johannesburg in South Africa and I Was saying to Eugene,

[Eugene]

cause you know, we thugged like that.

[Dave]

You told this guy, walk around.

[Vic Mensa]

I know it is, it is thugged out in Johannesburg. So we were walking and walking hillbrow

[Trevor Noah]

and I was, I was saying, cause

[Eugene]

we're not scared of anyone.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm scared, I'm scared.

[Eugene]

We're scared.

[Dave]

We're definitely scared.

[Trevor Noah]

No, what I was saying was you take for granted. I've always taken for granted. How much a place can keep pieces of you and create pieces of you. Do you know what I mean? So the reason I ask you about like that home side of things is because there's another vic in Ghana.

[Eugene]

And I want.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, I want to know like what came out of you because of Ghana that maybe you wouldn't have experienced otherwise just being in the US or being in Chicago.

[Vic Mensa]

Much more peaceful and it's much slower paced. Like America, we are confined by time. Like we're obsessed with it. We schedule our days in 30 minute increments. Like I've got this meeting, then I have this zoom call and then I have this lunch, then I have a breakfast. You know what I mean? I have so many scheduled events. Try that in Ghana, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not gonna happen because people don't operate like that. People are not behold to time in the same way.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

And they could be six hours late for something and that's just like regular,

[Trevor Noah]

you know, it's not even late.

[Vic Mensa]

So that's kind of on time. It's just something to expect. And as I'm spending time in Ghana, there's always a process of like low key decolonizing my mind as it pertains to time. To allow things to happen at their own pace more and to stop being so rigidly connected to my ideas of time and schedule. And it becomes more of it becomes more of a peaceful experience.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you think it made you more chilled as a person?

[Vic Mensa]

I think when I'm there, but then I get too chill and then I try to come like eight hours late to some shit. And I miss the whole thing, you know, I'm still trying to find the balance, you know, like, how do I fit in this while still like accomplishing shit? It's always a little bit of a tug of war. But in general though, I do admire the way that people in West Africa, people in the Caribbean are not so, yeah. Controlled by time. Like not so in fear of time. I feel like Americans live in a constant fear of missing the moment. But being in the moment is the Way to not miss the moment.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. Even. Even the phrase wasting time, I find, is one that is often used in America and in the west in a way that isn't used in, at least in my experience in Africa or in the Caribbean. You. You can't waste time because time's always happening. You don't have it. You never have it. So you're either doing with it what you please or you're not doing with it what you. But you cannot waste time. You know.

[Dave]

Can I interject?

[Eugene]

Please?

[Trevor Noah]

It's actually. I was actually gonna.

[Dave]

Is it possible for me to interject?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I was actually gonna say this about you. I was gonna say you'd be proud to know, you know, because you inspire me to read books about things thought to waste time. No, no, no. You do.

[Eugene]

There's a.

[Trevor Noah]

There's a book that I read, actually, that was saying, like, this thing is actually quite real, but it actually goes to the environments that people came from. So people in Africa, especially in like, West Africa, Central Africa, etc. The Caribbean never suffered food scarcity due to weather or to time. So they never needed to develop a relationship with time. Yes, because time didn't define your ability to exist.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. But if you grew up in places like Sweden, England, etcetera, Time was the difference between living and dying. If you missed the time of the crops, if you missed the time of planting, if you missed the time of a carriage that was going to pick you up in the snow, it's death. So time is more important than people

[Vic Mensa]

in African Caribbean could just go get that avocado.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, exactly.

[Vic Mensa]

At any time.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but I thought you would appreciate that, Dave.

[Dave]

Sorry. Yes, no, I do appreciate that. That is.

[Vic Mensa]

That's crazy.

[Dave]

That is great. No, no, the thing. No, the thing that this reminds me of is yesterday.

[Eugene]

The whole thing.

[Dave]

Sorry. Reminds me of yesterday. And I'm telling Vic. Yesterday, Trevor texted me and he was like, let's chat about what we're gonna do with, you know, this podcast and that whole thing of today. You know, that kind of thing. Cause we. Yesterday then he said in his text, this is related to time. In his text, he said, I'll call you at 2:30.

[Trevor Noah]

I feel like this guy is just using this opportunity to expose me, but let's carry on.

[Dave]

No, no, no, no, no. This is all part of it, I'm sure.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, carry on, David.

[Dave]

Yes. No, no, no. It ends with me being condemned. But please, please continue just where we are. The main character over here said, I'll text you at 2:30. Then he didn't text at 2:30. Oh, he said, I'll phone you at 2:30. He didn't phone at 2:30. Then he phoned at 7:30. To your point of Africans. No, really, he phoned at 7:30, which I'm also African. So I didn't. When he said, I'll text at 2:30, I didn't have that. Like, oh, our phone at 2:30. I didn't have that. Oh, you know, at all because I'm African. But when we did get to 7:30, when he called, if you hadn't called at all, I would have been fine with it. I'd have been like, well, he didn't call. We'll meet the next day. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I'll call you at 5 to talk about tomorrow. I didn't call you. I'll just assume he's doing something. Then we meet the next day. You know, you get where I am as a person. Cool. But then at 7:30, because I've known this guy for many years. So at 7:30 he called me. He did call, but he called. You know when someone sort of like calls you when. Because they, when they know that you won't like really be able to pick up the phone. No, this is. No, no, no.

[Eugene]

What?

[Dave]

No, no, no.

[Vic Mensa]

They hang up after two rings.

[Trevor Noah]

I won't say anything.

[Dave]

Doesn't have. That's what happened. I'll tell you how. Because 7:30, you know that thing. Well, you know, we know it like, because I called directly afterwards. You know, when it rings 1, 2, 3 and then it goes off. Then you ring back directly afterwards. They should pick up.

[Eugene]

They were shocked that you called.

[Dave]

No, he didn't pick up. He didn't pick up.

[Eugene]

Of course you were shocked.

[Dave]

No, because he was trying. He was going, okay, I can't call him at. I can't call him at 2am because then obviously he's sleeping. Do you know that kind of thing? But I can't call him at 4 because then he won't be like engaged in something. He'll pick up. So then this guy is going, like, when is the time that, like he's betting. When is the time when I know that it will be a. It will be. I called. It will be. I called. You didn't pick up.

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Dave]

Most likely you're in the bathroom. I come back, missed. Because think about it. So I called you direct, two seconds. And then I called again.

[Eugene]

And then wait, so he didn't pick up the first time.

[Dave]

So this is what Happens because I was in Indiana.

[Trevor Noah]

I knew this would be me being snitched on.

[Dave]

This is what happens. Ding, ding. Then I was doing a thing. Then I was like, I'm just fine now. Ding, ding off. Not even many rings. Then I go. Because it comes back. Then I go, call back. You know what I mean? No call. Because then I know this is. He was just trying to do that.

[Eugene]

Tick a box.

[Dave]

Yes, tick a box. Then what happened is I stopped. I left it because maybe. You know what I mean? How long then? For like two minutes. You know what I mean? Then.

[Eugene]

Yeah, because you're giving the space to call back.

[Dave]

Yes. Then I called again, so now I look like an idiot. Then I. Then I called again and then he didn't pick up. Then you know, like, you know, on. Because it's a WhatsApp call. The WhatsApp also makes you feel more thirsty than you are because WhatsApp fails

[Vic Mensa]

you if a motherfucker been on the phone. All this nigga Trevor know was a failed two minutes ago.

[Dave]

And then WhatsApp also up. Now WhatsApp also does that thing where it says, would you like to record a voice message? I don't want to record a voice message.

[Eugene]

I'm not the one.

[Dave]

He's calling me.

[Eugene]

And then you didn't start.

[Dave]

Yes, I just started.

[Eugene]

And even the. The promise of I'll call you at 2:30.

[Trevor Noah]

Why?

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, this is a.

[Trevor Noah]

This is a good place to explain

[Eugene]

why I got a new iPhone.

[Trevor Noah]

No, this is. People have very different experiences in life. And I think one of my gifts has always been being able to understand that everyone is consuming the same reality from their perspective.

[Dave]

Don't make it deep. Don't make it deep.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me explain why I have AD

[Dave]

HD or whatever he tells everybody to have.

[Trevor Noah]

No, let me explain. So what if he says aids? I love. I love. I love your experience. I'll tell you what happened. This is actually. This is actually great. It's a very poignant thing to chat about. You know, I feel like Vic will even have great opinions on this. So you are correct. I said to you, I'll call you at 2:30.

[Eugene]

Why did you say 2:30?

[Trevor Noah]

Because that is when my previous engagement was gonna end. So I knew. So I knew. My thing ends at two.

[Eugene]

Oh, you wanted to catch momentum.

[Trevor Noah]

So I was like, my thing ends at 2. I'll. I can make the call by 2:30. Okay.

[Dave]

Also remember, this is unprompted. I'm not.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not asking for that.

[Eugene]

He saw it.

[Dave]

I'm just putting there a wild goose chase.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but wait, I'm not asking for this. Yeah, but wait, wait, wait. I will. Do we need to type in.

[Eugene]

I'm not on your side.

[Vic Mensa]

I think it's okay.

[Dave]

All right.

[Trevor Noah]

The.

[Eugene]

So this guy used to record albums at the I store?

[Trevor Noah]

No, you never know. But, I mean, he's cool with anything. But, you know, there's tricks to these things sometimes. Like a little, you know. So. Okay, so.

[Vic Mensa]

So.

[Trevor Noah]

So this is what I'm saying. The 2:30. You are completely correct, my friend. And let me first say, before saying anything else, I apologize.

[Dave]

Ah, don't apologize. I don't accept. I didn't mean it. I don't. Because you're trying. No, no, wait.

[Trevor Noah]

First of all, let me say I apologize for sending the 230.

[Eugene]

Wake up.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't apologize. No, now, now, let me. Let me explain what happened. Let me explain what happened.

[Eugene]

So I don't accept on your behalf.

[Dave]

No. So how.

[Trevor Noah]

No. So how I get around. I get around. I get around riding a bicycle. That's how I prefer weight. This is how I get.

[Dave]

It's him.

[Vic Mensa]

Should have looked harder.

[Trevor Noah]

So I get around riding a bicycle. Right. Okay. Ride bicycles. Ride bicycles. So the thing that I planned didn't end at the time that I thought I'd planned. Then I get on a bicycle. So now I cannot make this call. Riding the bicycle. Riding the bicycle. Get to the next thing Now I've missed the time. Should have said something but didn't.

[Vic Mensa]

Fine.

[Trevor Noah]

But I also know. No. But I also know. No, no, no. Making AirPods on a bike is terrible because the wind goes into them. Maybe this new CEO at Apple will fix this. There's so much wind that goes in that the other person on the other side, that's all they're hearing. So I was like, there's no point in making this call. I also knew that my friend, if he was plagued by the time, he would say, like, yo, yo, yo, we need to chat.

[Dave]

I wasn't plagued by the time I knew.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I knew this. So let me explain. What now, when I made the call, 7:30, I just finished something. I was done. 7:30, I made the call. I was like, all right, call. Now, this is a pet peeve that I have that is actually affecting people's friendships. Might I say no. WhatsApp lies about how many rings are occurring when you phone somebody on WhatsApp.

[Vic Mensa]

This is.

[Dave]

Now, wait. This is a deep lie.

[Trevor Noah]

You're about to go, can I tell you something. Let me tell you something about my pet peeve, my friend. And remember, I'm the tech guy. Don't forget this. WhatsApp lies to me.

[Eugene]

Someone who couldn't call me while he was riding a pipe.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me explain to you. WhatsApp will lie to you. Your phone will be ringing. You go dial. It'll start ringing on your end, but it's not ringing on the end.

[Eugene]

The calling and ringing is two different.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It does that sometimes, but still it will ring on your. So what I'll do, like with Lawrence, for instance, I'll say, how. How long did that ring on your side? He'll be like, it rang once. I'm like, nah, I've been waiting for like, ten rings on my side. We. We tracked this on purpose. WhatsApp will make it seem like it's ringing on the other side, but it's not ringing. You think you've been waiting for long. The other person hasn't waited when I called you tomorrow.

[Dave]

This guy is. You know how long for? The last person who said this was literally Albert Einstein.

[Eugene]

Do you remember?

[Dave]

He said the theory of relativity. Time is different. On what, your side? Time is. This guy is trying to. No. So let me explain what happened.

[Trevor Noah]

So what happens is.

[Eugene]

So depend on the ringtone.

[Trevor Noah]

So on his side. No. So on his side, what happens is you said it rang and then it was done. I waited for long. Aye. No, no, I'm telling you from my side. It rang, it rang, it rang, it rang, it rang.

[Eugene]

How long did you wait?

[Trevor Noah]

It rang for a very long time. Then I was like, I agree. This guy's clearly not next to his phone and he's not on his phone. Done. Then I got onto a bicycle. So if you phoned me while I'm on a bicycle, I'm now not gonna answer that call.

[Eugene]

Why?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not pulling out my phone while I'm riding.

[Vic Mensa]

He's on a bike.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm on a bike, my friend.

[Eugene]

It was him.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm on a bike now. I'm not gonna pull out my phone. So now you're calling me back while I'm on a bike. The calls come in.

[Eugene]

You see, if you had AirPods, you

[Trevor Noah]

would have said, at the end of the journey. At the end of the journey. Then I look at my phone. There are many things that have been missed, but I'm like, you know what? We'll get to them another time, another day. And I know that my friend isn't stressed by them, and that's how we move on.

[Dave]

I wasn't.

[Eugene]

Do you have your phone with you?

[Trevor Noah]

Either way, I apologize.

[Dave]

Well, I was. Yes, you have your phone with you. Yes, but. But I don't want to test that. The thing that. No.

[Eugene]

Speaker. No, no, no. I want to hear.

[Dave]

I don't want any rings.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm going to do it right now.

[Eugene]

Because I have a theory that it could be the ringtone. You could have those ringtones that go. And then he's like, boo, boo.

[Trevor Noah]

They can ask you a question. How many friends do you have in your life that might actually be your enemies? People who are trying to bring you down?

[Vic Mensa]

I got a handful of far more sinister frenemies than this.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, let's. Let's see here. Let's see.

[Eugene]

Speaker.

[Trevor Noah]

One. It's ringing already.

[Eugene]

One.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but we're on the same WI fi now.

[Eugene]

You're looking for. Wait, do it again. When a shy ringtone. Lapo girl on full volume.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes, but we're on the same WI fi. We're on the same WI fi here.

[Eugene]

Doesn't matter.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene]

The call is a call because I want to hear the ringing versus his ringing.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm going to try again. I'm going to try again.

[Dave]

I called you even just before.

[Trevor Noah]

This is what technology does to us in society.

[Dave]

Switched it off.

[Trevor Noah]

That's why. That's why we in society. Guys, can I just say.

[Dave]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I just say. Vic, let me actually. You know, Vic. You know, Vic, this is a perfect segue. This is a perfect segue. You know, Vic, this is a perfect segue for me to ask you, as somebody who. No, as somebody who uses. As somebody who uses technology to connect with people, do you ever fear its. Its ability to disconnect you from people?

[Eugene]

And.

[Trevor Noah]

And. And I. I mean, this. You know, so you actually got me. April 1st, you put out the video. I remember being very sad. Vic put out a video saying he was quitting Instagram.

[Dave]

Oh.

[Eugene]

When he was playing with us.

[Trevor Noah]

And he was quitting speaking publicly. And it was. And it was slides.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Each slide, I got more emotional. I got more sad. He was talking about all the money he's lost for being outspoken. Yes. He's talking about how, you know, it's not worth it anymore. He's just gonna go into a hole and not say anything. In society. Yo, I was deep, and I was feeling it.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then the last slide, he was like, April Fools.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I didn't appreciate that. Cause I thought at some point we'd just get over April Fools, but not Vic. Mensah.

[Vic Mensa]

That was fun every time.

[Trevor Noah]

But. No, but you know. You know what it did. It. It honestly did bring up. I thought to myself, I was like, yeah, but like, you're putting out these videos at a pretty frequent rate now. The one thing you can't control is where the videos go, how the videos go, how people even pick out a piece from the video, splice it together. Cause you've curated something. You've put out a message, but then there's somebody out there who's gonna take the message and cut it and make it seem like Vic Mensa said this, or make it seem like Vic Mensa

[Eugene]

said take what they like out of it.

[Trevor Noah]

How do you process it and does it affect what you do or do not say?

[Dave]

Sorry, just for. This is a real thing. Before you go into that, for those who don't know, let's say my mom was watching. Do you know what I'm saying? Just. Could you describe the videos?

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. No, if you. Actually, this is. No, this is a good. This is a good point. For those. For those who don't know, it's the. You've seen them?

[Eugene]

Yeah, if you.

[Trevor Noah]

I think Dave is secretly telling us he hasn't seen them.

[Dave]

I have seen them. I have.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, let me tell you what they are. Dave. Dave does this sometimes. He'll be like, pretend my mom, but it's really him. So, Dave, Vic Mensa, you probably know him from his rap career, hip hop, et cetera, fashion, all of these things. But recently, Vic has blown up online for putting a series, for creating a series where he speaks to issues happening in the world. And I think the biggest thing that's

[Eugene]

made in his backyard.

[Trevor Noah]

In his backyard or a backyard? I'm not assuming it's his.

[Eugene]

Is that your backyard?

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, no.

[Trevor Noah]

So. And what's. What's made it really engaging is not just the content. It's like, the style and the way that he does it. So he picks an orange off of a tree, and then he walks up to the camera and he starts discussing something while he's peeling the orange. And then he eats the orange. And.

[Eugene]

And sometimes he looks at the orange while he's peeling it.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. And then I don't know.

[Eugene]

I don't know which is intentional, because

[Trevor Noah]

I don't know why or how this happens.

[Eugene]

But you. You go. Sometimes you look. Yeah, because that's what made me realize the real orange.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, you thought it might have been AI, but when.

[Eugene]

When your thumbs were in it, and then you were like.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, hotter.

[Eugene]

Than other oranges.

[Dave]

They are.

[Trevor Noah]

This is true. This is true. You actually have to think about it. But anyway, this is huge. Nominated for a Webby now it's become a piece of Internet culture in a way, you know, when you know you've achieved that is when people parody it. So I've seen people now go to a tree and pick another fruit to do a joke about something.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. The guy that brought the Jack Harlow controversy to life, he started it with.

[Dave]

Exactly.

[Vic Mensa]

So you realize how this doesn't make sense because he pulled a bag of chips.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. So.

[Dave]

And just another question, just a quick one. What are, like. Just quickly, what are, like, the range of topics that you sort of would talk about in the video?

[Vic Mensa]

I'm talking about things that are happening in the world, geopolitical things, my mental health, like, experiences that are happening in my life, a lot of what's going on in America, African history and events and things like that. Just a lot of same things I would talk about in conversation with y', all. You know what I'm saying? The question maybe originally was, how do you deal with or. Or has it affected fragmentation of, like, of your words online? You know, I think part of. Part of it for me is definitely doing my best to not be too attached to response, which can be difficult, but to try to stay driven by message. You know what I mean? Try to stay driven by purpose. I think about the time I was on your show, like, must have been 10 years ago.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

On the Daily show, you know, when I came back from Palestine and I was on your show speaking about my experience in Palestine and in the west bank and how it reminded me of American racism and Jim Crow, and that was early in the common parlance of discussions about Palestine for the American populace, you know what I'm saying? And, yeah, at that time, I experienced a lot of blowback, not particularly for being on your show, what I said on there, but generally for speaking my mind, you know what I mean, about what I felt.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. Shut up. Who are you?

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, it's the usual, you know, and, like, the people in my team and in my circle that I didn't know felt very differently about that. And for sure, throughout the years, there's been so much fallout and consequence and loss of money and loss of opportunities for being outspoken, like, for saying the things that I believe. But ultimately, I have tried the opposite. You know what I mean? I've tried to muzzle myself and be silent at times when I knew I had Something to offer of value. And that was pretty soul crushing too, you know, that didn't like that didn't lead me in the right direction either. And I feel like maybe I've started to feel that leaning into purpose and like being driven by my purpose serves me, you know, that it's. That it's better for me, it's better for the world. And if people fragment it, if people misunderstand it, if people misuse it, that's gonna be a part of it, I'm sure. There's been so many times when things that you've said have been manipulated. Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, look at what WhatsApp did to me with my friend.

[Vic Mensa]

WhatsApp is the culprit.

[Trevor Noah]

Just that alone. I mean, look at it. We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. Imagine this. You're at a checkout counter. You're ready to pay when you realize you don't have your wallet.

[Dave]

Dun, dun, dun.

[Trevor Noah]

You could drive all the way back home and you could get it. But you remember that you have your Apple card on your iPhone so you can tap to pay with Apple Pay. Imagine that. No need to carry a wallet. But, you know, one of the things I do like about having my card on my phone is we live in a world where you lose your card and then you don't know where it is. And then you're like, what do I do? Well, if your phone is connected to your card and your card is connected to your phone, you know what's going on. The best thing about having the Apple card connected to your phone is you know what every transaction is. You know, like, sometimes you're like, what did I spend this month? The Apple card will show you one month. I had spent an obscene amount of money ordering videos online.

[Eugene]

Just videos?

[Trevor Noah]

They were just videos.

[Eugene]

What kind of videos?

[Trevor Noah]

That's not the point. The point is I knew that I didn't want to order those videos anymore because I'd spent too much money on was videos on how to not spend money online.

[Eugene]

I felt like I'd been duped.

[Trevor Noah]

Point is, Apple showed me what I was spending my money on and I was able to change my spend habits. And you can do it too. I earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase with my Apple card. That's unlimited daily cash back no matter where I shop. Apply for Apple card in the wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at applecard.com youm know when the weather finally turns and everyone suddenly remembers they have friends? Well, that's when you know it's time to get outside, fire up the grill, and start planning all those sunny gatherings, pool days, weekend hangouts, Mother's Day, brunch, graduation, all of it. And what I like is keeping it simple. That's why I go to Whole Foods Markets, because they make gathering easy. You've got quality meat, fresh organic produce, and those seasonal bakery treats that somehow disappear before the guests even arrive.

[Eugene]

Hmm.

[Trevor Noah]

I wonder who that was for.

[Dave]

The grill.

[Trevor Noah]

It's all the good stuff. Organic chicken breast, 365 by Whole Foods Market. Lean ground beef, ready to cook kebabs. That's the kind of setup where even if you're not a grill expert, people still respect what you're doing. Oh. And then you round it out in produce. Avocados, heirloom tomatoes, strawberries, mangoes, raspberries. Suddenly, your table looks like you planned this for days. And if you want to go a little further, the desserts do the work for you. Mango yuzu, Chantilly cake, strawberry pretzel cream pie. Those are the moments where people stop talking and just eat.

[Dave]

Oh.

[Eugene]

Ooh.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, I almost forgot. This is one of my favorite options. You let Whole Foods Market do most of the work. Prepared foods has everything. Quiche Lorraine, deviled eggs, family sized salads, cut fruit, veggie trays. You name it. You just show up relaxed, and people assume that you've been cooking all morning. And then you act like you've been cooking all morning. And if you really want to take it easy, well, then let Whole Foods Market catering handle it all. Same quality, same great ingredients, just none of the stress. Because at the end of the day, it's not about the grill. It's about the people around it and who prepared it. Me. Thank you very much. I'll take all the credits. Shop for all your summer favorites at Whole Foods Markets. If you're trying to be a little more intentional about what you wear day to day, well, Quince can help you with that. They've got pieces that feel easy, comfortable, and still put together. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are clean. It's the kind of clothing where you don't have to think too hard, but you still look like you did. And I've realized that's actually the goal. You don't want to be standing in front of your closet negotiating with your clothes. You just want to put something on and get on with your life. Quince makes that easier? Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts starting at $34. Lightweight, breathable, especially when it's warm, but still structured enough that you don't feel like you just rolled out of bed. And what surprised me is how they're able to price everything. It's about 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands because Quince works directly with the factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting premium materials just without the mockup. I picked up one of their linen shirts recently, and it has been in constant rotation. Don't get me started on those sweaters. Oh, so comfortable. You know, it's just those pieces that just work. You can wear it out, you can wear it casually. It's comfortable, it breathes. And every time I put it on, I'm like, okay, this feels like I made an effort and it didn't cost what I thought something like that would. That's the balance. I like clothes that feel good, look good, and don't make you overthink it. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com what now for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com what now for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint, You know, one of the things I appreciate about what you do, though, specifically, is, and I hope I can frame this correctly, I feel like some people create things online so that they can create more things online. And I. The reason it's hard to articulate is because people go like. But isn't everyone trying to make things to make things? No, I think of it like this, okay? Politicians, especially in America, I find, spend all their time or a lot of their time campaigning so that they can be reelected. So that they can campaign so that they can be reelected. So that they can campaign so that they can be reelected. Then I go, wait, wait, wait. What was the point of getting into power if you never used that power for the people who voted you in? And they go, as soon as I'm in fundraising, I gotta get more money and I gotta get this. And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but why? Well, so that I can get reelected. So that you can do something. You forget the initial purpose of why you came in. It would have been better for you to come in for a single term, do your damnedest to deliver and just leave. It would have been better for you, and it Would have been better for your constituents. I think there's also something that's happening online where there used to be a world where people would create things and put them online because they wanted to create things, but then now people create so that people can view them, so that they can create, so that they can view them, so that they can create, so they can. You know what I mean? So that's when people become parodies of themselves. They become caricatures of themselves. They. They. They do things to. To, like, make you feel a certain way, right?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't say this to gas you up, honestly. I never feel like you're trying to spark outrage. I never feel like you are trying to make something go viral. I never feel like you are. Like, I don't feel riled up by your comments, both for you or against you. And what I mean by that is I don't watch your videos and go, yeah, get them, Vic. And I don't watch your videos and go, like, I can't believe Vic said, I just listen to you. And I find myself going, damn, what an interesting way to phrase that. That's an interesting lens that he applied on this topic or that viewpoint.

[Dave]

Wow.

[Trevor Noah]

I like the way he put that together with. But, like, is that. Am I reading that correctly?

[Vic Mensa]

I appreciate that immensely coming from you, man. I'm just like, I'm a consummate fan of your comedy and really your perspective, because I feel like you're somebody that shows me that mediums are just that. They're. They're avenues with which to express what is contained by the human being.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, damn it.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? And that, like, comedy is a medium for sure. And then late night TV was its own medium. You know, even this is its own medium. I was watching, like, your newest special on Netflix, and I was just like, I was so glad to be watching you as a comedian, you know what I'm saying? Because, like, I'm just such a huge fan of you as a comedian and that medium, you know what I'm saying? That way of looking at the world and dissecting it. Fucking Martin Luther King realizing he fought for bland chicken so good and the purpose of it, you know what I'm saying? As I've been doing the things I've been doing right now online, it's really, in a way, been my way of dissecting how I see the world, but also, like, working on writing jokes and like, making fun of it and having.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Having genuine conversation the way I would Talk to a friend, you know? Cause the world is fucking on fire. It's crazy. But we black people, man, you know what I'm saying? We make everything fun. We ain't just like sitting around suffering about it. You know what I mean? I'm sure even on the plantation. Yeah, that's. I guess that's what Joy and the trenches.

[Trevor Noah]

That's. That's literally what it is.

[Vic Mensa]

You made a plantation joke. Like the overseer comes and you. You picking the cotton while he there. As soon as he leaves, you dirty ass.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but I think wet hair, wet

[Vic Mensa]

dog smelling ass, white.

[Trevor Noah]

Well, these are not my words. Let me just say Vic has just added his own.

[Vic Mensa]

I would have been.

[Trevor Noah]

He just paraphrased everything. Eugene was looking at me like, who is my friend?

[Eugene]

Wet ass, dirty dog.

[Vic Mensa]

Dirty dog smelling ass nigga.

[Eugene]

You know something? I've realized that once purpose is a selfish pursuit. It's just when people get to experience it from you, they think there's more to it than there actually is. So for example, the example that you made about politicians sometimes.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, hold on. Say that again.

[Eugene]

So purpose.

[Trevor Noah]

Purpose is a selfish pursuit. Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Eugene]

So when people steal me and they enjoy it, they start thinking, they make it that they make the result of your. Of your purpose.

[Trevor Noah]

Like it was always for them.

[Eugene]

It was always for them. So when a politician is campaigning, just maybe they like being on the road. Just maybe they like the staff meetings and the late campaign and the photo shoots. But they were never about service delivery. They were never about making sure that you get the water. But we see it in South Africa.

[Trevor Noah]

This is true.

[Eugene]

There's politicians that are good at rallies and they good at the campaign.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, they love the life.

[Eugene]

Yes. But they never thought they'll have to actually sit down and understand what the budgets are.

[Vic Mensa]

How do you guys feel about Julius Malema?

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, it's. That's like how long is a piece of string?

[Eugene]

No, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

I'll tell you why. So the first thing I'll say is

[Vic Mensa]

I see him from my American perspective, not knowing so much.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'd love to know. Tell us how you see how you see him and then we'll tell you. Yeah,

[Vic Mensa]

Just don't say it. You just don't know what you're doing with that weapon. It's a brilliant weapon.

[Dave]

Sorry again, for context, before you answer the Julius Malema question. For those who don't know, Julius Malema is one of the like people that people point to to say that he is promoting the white genocide.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Julius Malema, I would say, is like, our most controversial publicly and internationally known politician in South Africa. Yeah. He's. In fact, when Trump. When Trump came off to South Africa, Julius Malema was like, the thing he held up as, like, here's the example I'm using.

[Vic Mensa]

He had to kill the boar.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

The farmer host, like, so high. What a good song. I mean, like, it was. Yeah. I mean, that's how it felt to me as a black American. I was like, I resonate with this. This shit, the beat, you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

It does have a vibe. Yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Killer. Literally. Julius Malema. Yeah. I look at him not knowing so much.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

And I love him. I mean, he seems like he's the one that is fighting back by any means necessary. That's the feeling. The sense that I get from him. When I was in South Africa, something that broke me was to realize that white people are maybe about 10% of the population. I think even less in South Africa, maybe even less. And hold 90% of the wealth. Then I think about America, where black people are about 10%, 13%, and once again, white people hold 90% of the wealth. And being there, being on the continent, you know what I mean, in this cradle of fucking civilization, and seeing that freedom was so partial, you know what I mean, and that the ownership of the land and the wealth was squarely not in the hands of the Africans was riveting, you know what I mean? The woman I was with at the time, she had to, like, check me at a point in time. She like, you can't just get mad at every white person you see.

[Trevor Noah]

Damn, that's funny.

[Vic Mensa]

And I'm like. I'm like, but why the fuck you niggas own everything, you know?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

And I'm livid, you know what I mean? And then I see Julius Malema, and he's like, kill the boar, the farmer, you know? And I'm like, that's my n. You know, my knee guy.

[Eugene]

My niga.

[Vic Mensa]

I'm a nigger.

[Eugene]

I'm my nigga.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, let's catch with.

[Vic Mensa]

Okay, so tell me how you guys do.

[Trevor Noah]

So. And Eugene, I mean, you'll interject. Anyway, this is how I see it. I think Julius Malema, in terms of his rhetoric, has one of the most progressive rhetorics that. That I've ever come across. And he's inspired one of the more necessary conversations, not just in South Africa, but on the continent and in the world as a whole. And the argument. Cause there's people who won't know it is. If I distill it down, it is fundamentally this. Can you claim to give somebody their freedom if you do not give them the tools to actually exercise that freedom? Right. And. And if I was to use an analogy here, oftentimes what I think he's speaking about in terms of restitution is he'll go, South Africa's racism. You don't have to go far back. You know, you don't have to go back, like, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. It's our parents, literally. Like, not figuratively. It is literally our parents who were the last, like, let's say, adult victims of apartheid. And then we were born in apartheid, and then we experienced democracy and freedom outside of it. Yes. And so we grew up outside of it. But when you look at that, there are many things that the state stole from black people and all other people of colored people, you name it, the state stole these things from them, took that and gave it to the white population in South Africa. And many of them. And this is something that I think is important to say. Many of them unknowingly receiving it.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Which is. Which is a part of the conversation people don't really have. Often, many white people in South Africa were obscured from the reality of the situation.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So they were going, we get good roads, we get free schools, we get unemployment. Seems like the government's doing a good job.

[Eugene]

Opportunities.

[Trevor Noah]

And then the government would just go, hey, just so you know, man, these black people are crazy out here. We're holding them back. And the only place they got their reality from was from the government. And so, in the same way, it's funny, I remember when I went to the African American History Museum, one of the things you see MLK talk about is he in all of his writings, when he's trying to get journalists to come out and cover what's happening, he's saying that in his writing. And I paraphrase this because I don't know if I'll say it accurate, but he says, because I truly believe when our white brothers and sisters see what is being done, see what is being done by the American government to black people, I believe that they will stand up with us. So I find it fascinating that even in America, mlk, and then in South Africa, white people were obscured from the truth. The truth was being obscured from them. Right. So they receive these things. The government steals from black people to make white people live a life that is as good and as easy as possible. Mm. Democracy comes, but there is no Restitution. There is no correcting of this. You know the analogy I always use with people is I go, your house is robbed. The police come, they say, hey, we've solved the case. You. You were robbed, and we caught the person who robbed you. And you go like, all right, so what do we do now? They're like, no, no, we're not gonna do anything now. They're gonna keep everything that they stole from your house. But we can all agree that this was terrible. And you're like, wait, wait, that's it. It's like, no, no, no. Let's start from here. Now, we do agree this was terrible. So let's. Let's. Let's move forward from here. But we don't want to take it back from that person, because, I mean, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Vic Mensa]

This is why I love Julius Malemba, though.

[Trevor Noah]

Right? But the issue is. And this is the issue I have with many politicians. Rhetoric versus action. Maybe I'm an outlier in saying this, maybe I'm not. I think Julius Malema and many other politicians like him, not just in South Africa, but on the African continent, have fantastic rhetoric. But the actions that they participate in do not necessarily do what they need to do to liberate the people that they're trying to liberate.

[Eugene]

Mostly it's a timing thing. So there's a strange thing about South African history that if you tell it the way it is, you run the risk of being an apologist for the Africana apartheid system. Oh, that's interesting, because it starts in three parts. So the first part was the British, who oppressed the black people, the Khoisan indigenous people of the country. And the black people.

[Trevor Noah]

Right.

[Eugene]

And then when the British were like, okay, now you can have your own republic, and they left. They left the whole system to the Africana then. The Africana. Yes. So they were like, okay, now we're gonna run this thing our way. And then they took the system that the British had and gave it a name. So before it was just colonization, and then they called it apartheid. But now they were like, okay, now we're gonna promote two races here. Colored people will be the second.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And then we'll be the first one, which is the Africana. But even in the Africanas, not all Africanas benefited from apartheid. There was elitism as well. It went with surnames and which people were prestigious and who was educated. Because when it was first formed, there was a first group that was sent to Holland to go study architecture, literature, and art. To create the pernif paintings that we see that were all in government buildings, to create the architecture of the parliament and the union buildings. And the rich people gave up land which is now owned by the state. Pretoria, Harte, Pierce, Portem were all owned by the elite who were connected with Netherlands or with Dutchland. So Afrikaans people did not just benefit. So what we see as historical suburbs and schools that a Model C, that we call Model C, which were the first to get integrated was because they were not protected by privilege. Those were working class neighborhoods where they put a stadium here and a school here. So the integration happened there first, so it was harder to penetrate. The big ass mentioned suburbs that the elite, people that own the mines and the land and the farms we're living in. And it will never happen in our country. So the second part about what I find, which is a weird social experiment with Julius Maleme and the EFF is revolution can never happen in a democratic society. And that kind of rhetoric of revolution. Remember that these guys grew up in the ANC of Peter Mukaba, who was a firebrand, who was the next spoken up person after Nelson Mandela. And he just happened to be a young person when Nelson Mandela was released. And they grew up under him. So their rhetoric about what democracy, I mean, what revolution is, what freedom is, was mistimed because in the middle of democracy, you can't shout those words while you yourself are in a Range Rover in a Mercedes Benz and living in old historic suburbs and your children are enjoying private schools. So his voice got lost in there. The second part about that group was he was not a lone wolf. There were two other guys who were involved in the building of the party that people liked, as if it was a boy band. So there was the academic, which is Dr. Mwise Ndlozi, and there was another person who loves finance academic, which is Floyd Shivambu. And those people left the party and he was left alone to become a dictator.

[Trevor Noah]

Julius Malema? Yeah.

[Eugene]

Yes. But the funny part about that is there was an inquiry now in South Africa and there was a parliamentary panel of it, which he. Everyone expected to be the chair of it. He refused to be the chair of it and he recused himself from a lot of testimonies of corruption, policemen that involved him. So he's losing the fight over and over. And right now, two weeks ago, he was found guilty of discharging a firearm in a rally. And he was charged and he's going to face time. Yeah, he was sentenced to five years.

[Vic Mensa]

Well, he said the farmer yeah, there he goes. That's my favorite part of the song.

[Trevor Noah]

He's now serving time for it.

[Eugene]

Yeah. So if, if he, if he was convicted and charged for, for helping a person who was being mistreated because of their race, I'd be like, okay, yeah, but for breaking the Firearms Control act, discharging a machine gun.

[Vic Mensa]

See, this is funny. This is funny. This brings me to one of my other realizations about South. South Africa. So different. Yeah, I was learning about the hip hop artists and they were like, man, in South Africa, being a hip hop artist and being a gangster is actually like a demerit to your career because it makes you seem less commercially viable. Because to hear about a well known public figure going to jail for saying brr PA and discharging a firearm, this connects to things I like about artists. This is so funny. This connects to things that seem very familiar to me. Like, man, South Africa showed me so much, bro. I was like, first of all, I just think the entire idea of Afrikaners is hilarious. So you just a white nigga that put an extra A in your name and now you think you're an African. You're fucking done. And French and French and go to fuck home to those two very distinct places. I look at fucking Elon Musk's loose skin, Sith Lord ass father who sits there and he says, America's becoming darker by the minute. Well, why would they want to do that? Do they want to go back to the jungle? Like, nigga, you got a place you could go back to? The Netherlands. That's right. They'll welcome you with fucking open arms.

[Trevor Noah]

What's funny is they don't.

[Vic Mensa]

No, they really don't.

[Trevor Noah]

No, that's the funny thing about the story that people forget is many of the original Dutch settlers who came to South Africa were outcasts. The Netherlands was like, we don't want these people. The same way the original people who settled in Australia were the outcasts. They were like, we don't want them.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, we should go claim a new state and claim.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. But to Eugene's point, I think the key thing that we lose in a lot of these conversations, and that's funny enough, I think why many of your videos have resonated with people is when you peel back metaphorically and literally the layers, class is the one thing that emerges constantly and consistently and it's not going anywhere.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you get what I'm saying?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So to your point, race being a fiction, it's like. Yeah, it is. It is. You Know, it's a subjective reality. So race doesn't exist. But it also does.

[Vic Mensa]

But racism is very real.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

The effects of race are very real. And race is a subjective.

[Trevor Noah]

There you go. But class, there's an English writer who said it beautifully one day, and she said, I cannot wait for the United States to finish its race war so that it can realize that it was fighting about class all along the entire time.

[Vic Mensa]

But race was the justice justification.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

No, it's creation of the.

[Trevor Noah]

Of class look for things.

[Eugene]

But you've seen it in. In South Africa where there would be a. Our uncles or our dads would be working in a factory with white people.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

And they would be great friends because of the class that they find themselves.

[Trevor Noah]

There's a solidarity in that class.

[Eugene]

One day your uncle would go visit his white friend suburb and you'll be like, you are poorer than me. They'd be like, but we work at the same place and we earn the same salary. So it's about classism. I've seen it's the same way where

[Vic Mensa]

class distinction in South Africa.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. Have you seen how so shocking how

[Eugene]

white people in South Africa will treat a white beggar?

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, no, I haven't seen.

[Trevor Noah]

I would argue most of the time worse than them.

[Vic Mensa]

Worse than them. I was going to Soweto and I was stopping by my friend's family home and her uncle was massively wealthy. I had never seen this level of wealth, except maybe in the homes of Jay Z and Kanye. And I asked what he did, you know, and he made his fortune selling toilet paper to the prisons. Interestingly, the same private prison companies that own facilities in America, Geo Group, Core Civic, they own private prisons in South Africa, so they profit from the same confinement, destruction of black bodies. And I saw him making his fortune supplying those prisons as a way of shucking and jiving, for sure. I go to Soweto, I'm going to get Shisen Yama, you know what I mean? I'm catching my vibe. And this man jumps out once again, like to try to give me a parking spot, you know, help me for a tip. And he was singing this song. He said, my name is Jack, I live in a shack. I might be black, but I got a six pack. And yeah, he had. That was his song. I remember vividly. Oh, he was so hungry. He had a six pack.

[Dave]

Damn.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? And I was like, he's really shucking and jiving. And it was crazy, though, because I was like, damn, for a black man to make it to put food in his body. In this society, I'm seeing shucking and jiving on a street level. And even the richest nigga is sucking and jiving. No. Like to achieve this momentous wealth. And that shit kind of. It frustrated me, man.

[Trevor Noah]

But I argue though, but I argue though, those are two spikes from a multi pronged world. Because South Africa's, I mean, far from perfect, don't get me wrong. But I will say only thanks to traveling, I have come to appreciate how many more paths are starting to appear for black people.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So there are black people who've, let's not even call it a fortune. Cause not every person has made a fortune. There are black people who are just like doing it, you know, a completely different way. Like, you know, I can think of like a woman who started out selling, you know, what we call amakuinya, but let's say like a version of like a fried doughnut type thing on the street corner. Selling it out of a bucket, doing it. And then you go back there today and you're like, oh, wow. Now she has like a, like a store and an enterprise and she's running this thing. And then on the other side you have accountants and you have lawyers. You still have a guy on the street begging and doing this. And I'm not saying it's perfect, but what I have appreciated about it is that it's sort of. It's reminded me of the class story as opposed to the race story. And what I mean by that is even in South Africa. So you see what you said earlier in the conversation about Ghana, where they'll say, ah, white man. And they have a name for it. What do you say this?

[Vic Mensa]

Obroni.

[Trevor Noah]

Say again?

[Vic Mensa]

Oberoni.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, Oberoni.

[Eugene]

In Nigeria it's Oyibo.

[Trevor Noah]

Oyibo.

[Vic Mensa]

My T shirt. Oberoni. I've been fighting over Obroni my whole fucking life.

[Trevor Noah]

And then with us we have ngamla.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh. Or lehua. But it's said as like a. It's like you have achieved so much that you are now in the echelon of the white man.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That, that is how well you've done. What I appreciate is like over time, not tomorrow, I think that slowly disappears. That slowly becomes, you know, and then we, we get away from it and then hopefully we go, oh, okay, now we're just dealing with like a class thing. Cause without, without that we don't go anywhere.

[Eugene]

Yeah. I also feel like South Africa was just built on a lot of systemic corruption as well. Like a lot of stuff was given to people and businesses were giving to people that didn't deserve it. And as soon as someone gets caught, the whole value chain doesn't get caught. So for example, in South Africa when apartheid ended, a lot of buildings were given to people who were literally children who didn't know what they were doing. They were just given these buildings, title deeds of these buildings. So as they grew up as adults, they end up inheriting these buildings, owning them. So when the state wants the building, they have to buy the building from them. Right. So now you see it with people who are caught. Like, for example, there's a system called the tendering system where we come and then we bid. Whoever has the lowest price, they have

[Trevor Noah]

it in America as well.

[Eugene]

Do you have it as well?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, they have it in the US.

[Eugene]

So the toilet paper story, he's probably a tenderpreneur. He probably put on a bid and then someone tipped him and then he got the thing. But the thing is, what happened with that money is the money buys houses, buys cars, but the dealerships are not owned. Luxury dealerships are not owned by black people. Luxury estate agents are not black people. So the money still circulates amongst the same people.

[Trevor Noah]

Again, the story always ends with the people people wanted to end with. It's. You know what it reminds me of? Miami. I always found it interesting that like every documentary that would teach you about the drug trade in Miami will talk about the money that drug dealers were spending. You know, these Colombian drug lords and these. But they never talk about the fact that the money went somewhere.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Corruption needs a cycle. You can't be corrupt alone. You know, when people be like, Africa's so corrupt, then I'm like, with who?

[Vic Mensa]

You ever seen that video of the so called African politician who was like, corruption is not bad. It is only bad if I'm not a part of it. Yeah, if I am a part of that corruption, I defend it.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

But corruption, corruption with corruption cannot be alone. So when people go, africa is corrupt, I'm always like, yes, but with who? You look at the stories, there'll be corruption, There'll be an arms deal that's corrupt. With a French company, like a massive. We're not talking about like a mom and pop store, talking about like a French arms contractor, It'll be with an American company, it'll be with like. Then you're like, oh, okay. There are outside forces that are really powerful that know they can come into Africa, do deals with certain people. But then Leave the corruption story in

[Vic Mensa]

Africa but still be the puppet master. I mean, that's.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.

[Vic Mensa]

The whole long term strategy is to be able to keep the system of corruption going without having to be the face of it.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh yeah, for sure.

[Vic Mensa]

You know, even like one of the common conversations between Africans and black Americans is the idea that Africans, you guys sold your own, you sold us into slavery. And this is a common point of contention. When I was studying man, this book called How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney, he illustrates so clearly the way that the Europeans stifled every mode of, of legitimate trade so that African states, nations, empires were left with only the option to deal in the most corrupt trade, to deal in slaves. So certain, like Dahomey kings sent emissaries to Portugal to request that the trade in slaves end and that they change to legitimate trade and goods. And Portugal was like, fuck, no. We're cutting off all land routes. You can no longer, you can't trade with your neighbors. We have superior naval capabilities. We're cutting off the sea. You can't trade by sea. The only option we're going to leave you is that you trade in slaves. And the system of slavery, which is the system of corruption that was brought to the continent, was so wide reaching and it was so pervasive and all encompassing that no unit, no single African state really had the agency to fully reject the system of slavery. So you end up in this place where, I mean, all your options have been exhausted. You know, I mean, and you're forced into slavery. But then it's so insidious because it leaves the idea even amongst yourself and your progeny and your descendants that you were the source of the corruption that led to your current state of destitution. But really it's still the puppet master. I mean, it's still the French national corporation that's trading arms with the rebel group that's fighting back against Burkina Faso's Ibrahim Troy. You know what I mean? It's still like a shadowy puppet master for sure, that's funding all of this shit. But they want us to believe that Africa is so corrupt so that we think we're the source of our suffering. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

That's one of the reasons I appreciate Donald Trump.

[Eugene]

Jesus. Plot twist.

[Trevor Noah]

No, for real.

[Vic Mensa]

I feel you, though.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you one of the reasons I appreciate him is that he has not maybe cause I don't think he understands why it's necessary. He's not participated in the farce.

[Vic Mensa]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

That has kept people seeing the world a certain way.

[Eugene]

Explain.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so let's look at Venezuela as an example. What did Trump originally say the whole Venezuela beef was about? He said the way this man treats his people. You know, he's talking about Maduro. Yeah. Nicolas Maduro doing these things to his people. How can he do this? Freedom, democracy. We got it. You know what I mean? The people of the country, they oust Maduro, okay? They get Maduro. He's ousted. He's now in a prison in the United States. What does Trump say afterwards? People go like, so, regime change? He's like, no, the people in there, real happy. They're gonna let American companies in, and we're very happy. And you go, yeah, but what about the people? Remember you said the people. There were people cheering, by the way, when helicopters were flying in and there was gunfire. The night that Maduro was taken, there were people in the streets of Venezuela cheering because they. And they were saying.

[Vic Mensa]

Each time.

[Trevor Noah]

They were saying, every time they were cheering, going, oh, my. It's happening. He's being ousted. Like, they were excited for the change and the fact that they were gonna be freed from this dictator. And then Trump turns around and he's like, no, no, no, no, no. American companies can come in and do

[Vic Mensa]

business again, and we're gonna own the oil.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Eugene]

And that's.

[Vic Mensa]

We're gonna be taking care of the oil, and we're happy and we have the oil. I agree.

[Trevor Noah]

And then you go, okay, but what about the democracy side? And he's like, look, man, the point is American companies can come in and make the money. Same thing with Iran. You go, why are you there? What are you actually doing there? And anytime he has a hint of optimism. Look at what the optimism is about. You go, is it about the nuclear enrichment that they might have? He's like, the point is, the strait will be open, and we're gonna be doing this together. It's business, baby. We're back. It's business. And you're like, oh, you. That's why I say, I don't know if he does it. I think he does it unknowingly. He doesn't understand how valuable the farce was for sure.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Does that make sense?

[Vic Mensa]

Because he's not aligned with the same decorum of the political machine and class of people. He recognizes that he can manipulate these markets and he can make a massive steal in this short period of time. Doesn't matter to him.

[Trevor Noah]

Short period being the key.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter to him. Him to continue the false veneer. And he's like, this is about the oil. Which is actually brilliant, low key because it breaks down all of the bipartisan lies and smoke and mirrors that they've been playing because they've been warmongering with Iran, like soft launching, you know what I'm saying? These missiles for fucking decades. He was the first one, Democrats and Republicans, but he's the first to just put it on front street to say, no, actually, we want the oil. This is what this is about. I mean, this is about.

[Eugene]

All right.

[Dave]

Oh, sorry. Yeah. Cause he's. He won Venezuela. Cause it's. He won Venezuela.

[Eugene]

He won.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. I mean, he won. No, no, I agree with what, David. Yeah, he won the. That was a. That was a. You cannot easy victory. It was a victory.

[Eugene]

Okay.

[Trevor Noah]

It was a first round knockout.

[Dave]

Yeah, first round knockout.

[Trevor Noah]

It was that Mike Tyson fight where people hadn't even come into the arena yet.

[Dave]

That's the way you feel.

[Trevor Noah]

That's what happened there.

[Vic Mensa]

It's just like old recipe colonialism. But in the modern age. He's trying use the old.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but that was a. You could not win more in the, like any age go in. The number of people who were killed is acceptable by American standards. Right? Because there's almost like no Americans. I don't even think there was one. And they've taken the leader out and they got someone who's amenable to what they want. So, yes, a win.

[Dave]

Then you're like, he's losing Venezuela. I mean, he's losing Iran, then Cuba for the series. Cause it's got. It's gonna be tied. He won Venezuela one, Venezuela lost Iran, then the Cuban series. So then sometimes I think that the world should help Cuba so when it comes to the final, you know what I mean?

[Trevor Noah]

But no one will. Sorry, no one will.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. Because Cuba represents something that's so challenging and so dangerous to the supremacy of imperialism. And they represent the nigga they just couldn't kill, like Cuba. Cuba has defied American supremacy for so long and to be so close.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

And Cuba has sent thousands of doctors to Africa and sent soldiers to Angola and sent fighters to accompany like Emil Car Cabral in Guinea. Like, I met with OGs that had photographs of them with weapons in the jungle, that had stood side by side with Kwame Nkrumah, you know what I mean? And rocked with Patrice lumumba. And they're 90 miles from Florida, you know what I mean? And so the world can't come to Cuba's defense, because Cuba has defied the idea that the American way is better for too long. You know what I mean? They stand for something so significant. And it's interesting though, because when I'm

[Eugene]

there,

[Vic Mensa]

the official policy that was laid out by Lester mallory in, like, 1960, an American diplomat, was to bring about, I'm paraphrasing, suffering, destruction and starvation to the people of Cuba to the point that they revolt against their own and overthrow the government. That was the official stated policy. And so much time has passed and so many people in Cuba have been born under these current conditions that many of them only blame their own government. Many of them don't even consider the American sanctions as being part of the issue. Never mind the fact that fucking American sanctions, not just in Cuba, but around the world over the past 50 years have killed like, I don't know, like 50 million people. It's some astronomical number of people that have died from American sanctions. But once again, that shadowy puppet master effect of being able to circumvent and add in suffering, starvation and destruction through a third party type of manipulation, it leaves the people feeling like it's their fault. It's very similar to the way that Africans will feel. Africans often will be like, well, what about the corruption that. You know what I mean? That we are corrupt? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll feel that. You know what I'm saying? And I felt that when I was in Cuba. And it's not that the government of Cuba or the government of Iran, that these are perfect entities, you know what I'm saying? But they're under the heel of imperialism. How can one operate perfectly under the heel of imperialism?

[Trevor Noah]

That's probably the biggest paradox in all of this, is there are no perfect messengers. And then the story has been dictated by the victors, right? So I struggle with this all the time. I don't know how you process it. I go, you would be lying as a person if you said that Cuba hasn't shown many of the benefits of not adhering to, like, a strict capitalist system. You know, people educated just because you're gonna be educated, some of the best teachers, some of the best doctors, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it's important to state with almost nothing. Like, if you think of resources that the country has almost nothing, right? But then you'd also be lying if you didn't talk about the oppression of those same people by that government. You'd be like, yeah, but what about the people? And what, you know what I mean, What I'VE noticed is interesting, is that the west does a particularly good job of framing its oppression and bad deeds of Cuba as. No, no, of anyone. As an outlier.

[Vic Mensa]

Right.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I mean? So if you say to America or Americans, you go like, man, look at how many people in America starve or die because the system is designed to make them starve and die from sickness, etc. People be like, yeah, well, that's when the system doesn't work well, that's not what it's supposed to do. And you're like, oh, okay. And then you go like, man, look how many schools you've bombed or how many kids you've killed around the world. If we put that number on any other nation or any other group, I think as the world, we agree, we'd probably go after them, right? Like, we, we wouldn't. That would just not be a thing.

[Vic Mensa]

We'd have to liberate them and bring them democracy.

[Trevor Noah]

But then America goes, yes, we know, we know. We, we bombed the school. That is an unfortunate side effect of what. But we weren't, we were not trying to do it. And so we're actually the good guys. And it's, it, it always breaks my mind because it does two things. On the one hand, I go, it's all unraveling right now in the world. I, I think we, we live in a time that is unlike many other times in that there is no one central narrative that anyone controls anymore. And while I'm happy about it, it also terrifies me because I don't believe that anyone was like, let's say, telling the truth about their country or a central power. But I also don't think the world can survive if everyone believes nothing and nobody's a good guy. And like, do you know what I mean? If every government's bad and everyone is bad and everyone is not doing the right thing, then what incentive do we have to be part of anything?

[Eugene]

Yeah. Even outspoken. I think there's enough people who, who are supposed to have opinions. And we have a platform that are having too much of a good time within the rottenness of the system. So if Nelson Mandela, for example, was having a shitty time. Yeah. He says, my people are also having a shitty time. We're all having a shitty time.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Eugene]

So if the people with opinions are also like, I can also take a business flight to New York and I have an S class and, and, and, and those voices get stifled. So I think that's what's happening around the world right now is there's an outlier once in a while, someone who's doing well and has an opinion and can influence those with opinions to also have more opinions. But there are those who don't have a platform, who are not having a good time, who can't say much and do much as well. So I think we have to give balance to that. There's enough information out there for people to make up their own minds. But I think when people are faced with the day to day struggles, it's very hard for them to turn on the news and feel sorry for people who are being bombed far away from where they are.

[Trevor Noah]

What do you, what do you think changed? Because when I look back, especially at American musicians and actors even, this is literally how I grew up. I grew up watching, you know, the stories about race and class and all that, oftentimes through the lens of like American artists, you know, and then they were obviously the ones before my time. But when I think of like the Nina Simones and the Muhammad Ali's and when I watched those interviews, I go, damn. Cause I mean, Dave, like we were on the Daily show. But have you ever watched those interviews and been like, man, late night was no, like late night now is like, so tell me, tell me about the time you rode a horse and ate a banana. That was a crazy time. And then you go back and watch Late Night from like decades ago. And it's like, so Mr. Ali, you say that America's inherently racist. What do you mean by that? And you're like, damn, this is late night. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Eugene]

Because those influential people are also not having a good time. So when they got a chance to speak, they would actually raise up.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but they were, they were, I would argue they were having as good a time as you could be having now. Maybe I'm wrong. No, but now, like you, you are an outlier. Whereas back then, I don't know that you would be an outlier per se.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, I think COINTEL approach has been very effective. You know, I mean, black people have had so many mass movements and elevations of consciousness, and they're always followed by like cataclysmic events of biochemical warfare. Like crack cocaine hits the streets not long after the Black Panther Party is in the footsteps of Malcolm X. Like shifting mental. The consciousness of the people. But then you experience crack cocaine, you experience mass incarceration. You get to a point where kids of my generation in Chicago that are in working class, so many of them are like three generations of fatherless homes. I Mean, everybody's been incarcerated. Millions of men incarcerated. And so many parents addicted to drugs, like passing that down to their children, that becomes once again something that we often feel like we feel ownership of the ways we've been poisoned. And then we put that into our art. We make that our focus, we make that our music. We lose sight of anything other than the suffering and the struggle that we experience. And ascending out of it is kind of seen only from a material context, you know what I mean? Because it's so. It's so dire, the circumstances are so dire that it's like, cool. Get the S class, get the first class flight. That's it, you know what I'm saying?

[Trevor Noah]

Get out of the hood.

[Vic Mensa]

Just get out the fucking hood. That's the only goal, you know what I'm saying?

[Trevor Noah]

Because we lose the dream of there not being a hood in that way. And then we just wanna get out of it.

[Vic Mensa]

Just wanna get out of it. And then you even see ways in which the entertainment industry has controlled opposition and platformed focused, corrosive messaging and uplifted those things very intentionally. And it just becomes pervasive, you know what I mean? That's the dominant thread of, of conversation, but it doesn't last. I think the pendulum swings, you know what I'm saying? I think we're coming back to a time when for sure things are even. When I was on your show 10 years ago, talking about Palestine like that was a real fucking outlier.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, it was.

[Vic Mensa]

It's not now.

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Vic Mensa]

And that's one issue that people often latch onto and you know, call us single issue voters or whatever. But what happens in Palestine, the money that is. Is funding this genocide in Gaza is very connected to our everyday lives because it affects the money that's not going into schools, it affects the money that's not going into healthcare, affects the money that's not going into affordable housing. Like, it's all very connected and things have changed in a way in the past 10 years. Have the material realities changed?

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? But I do think that people's consciousness has to shift before the ability to shift the material reality.

[Eugene]

This.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what? It's also. Yeah.

[Dave]

A thing that I think people don't recognize a lot is that.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't say racism is good like you normally say in our group.

[Dave]

Like I normally

[Vic Mensa]

is that I'm a. It just sounds like I'm a, so.

[Dave]

Oh yeah, I don't even hear it. Like that is the, is the fact that some of the things that people do are like. I don't know, maybe I won't say this clearly, but we see people, then we go, people are good. It feels like people are good, you know, in the world.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Dave]

They're just generally good. Then when something bad happens, it almost seems so unfathomable that it's that you're like, no. Either life just sort of, like, panned out like that, or you are a conspiracy theorist.

[Trevor Noah]

I remember talking to a friend about this when I first came to the US Long before the Daily show, long before I was in Los Angeles, and I was going around doing comedy clubs and nights, and I would meet these comedians. And I remember one night, I was at what they call an urban night, you know, so it's a black comedy night now, where we're from, that's just the nights, you know what I mean? At night, I'm.

[Vic Mensa]

My niggas everywhere.

[Dave]

So it's all. It's all an urban night with your Ghanaian butler going.

[Trevor Noah]

So we're like, yo. And we had this conversation, and he said something that. Man, it really stuck with me. He said. He said we were talking about, like, conspiracy theories and not believing and, you know, and then he said to me, he said, man, one of the things I wish. I just wish that. That African Americans didn't have as many conspiracy theories as they have. And this is a black man saying this, by the way. And then I said to him, if anything, I feel like black people should be full conspiracy theorists only, especially in America, because the amount of times the conspiracy theory has actually been true has been true for black people in America. I go, I don't understand why you are. I'm actually impressed that you're not fully a conspiracy theorist.

[Eugene]

Yeah. But even that term is to cover up what could be potentially the truth.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, but I'm just saying, conspiracy is always consistently. You know, it's like, pretty much always.

[Trevor Noah]

You would love this. I actually, actually met someone who worked at the CIA, and I asked him the question. I said, yo, it wasn't me. It was a friend of mine asked it while we were there. He said, how many conspiracy theories are true? And the guy laughed and he said. He said, obviously, I can't say anything to you. But he said, but I will tell you this. Oftentimes at the Agency, we would be grateful. This was a really interesting phrase. He said, we would be grateful at how crazy conspiracy theorists were, because half the time they were correct, but half the time their conspiracies were so crazy that we never needed to, like, step in and.

[Eugene]

And balance.

[Trevor Noah]

And it was this interesting concept to me where I went like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. So half the things you think are crazy, Whatever you are, whoever you are in your world, half the things that you think are crazy are probably true?

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

And then half the things that you think are true are probably crazy. The difficulties, we'll just never know.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, that's how I feel about the files, man. It was like I used to look at some of my friends in some of the online discourse. It'd be like, really, guys? A secret cabal a of blood drinking Democrats abusing children globally behind the scenes. Are you serious? And you see the goddamn files and

[Trevor Noah]

you like, oh, deep.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Trevor Noah]

Deep.

[Vic Mensa]

This was real deep. These blood drinking pedophiles like this. You couldn't have told me that? I was like, I draw the line at that. You know?

[Trevor Noah]

And it's where you should draw the line. Like men. Like, if you think of somebody telling you a story to believe that is. Come on. It's crazy.

[Dave]

And more and more people are starting to not question reality. But.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but that's what I mean.

[Dave]

And I don't mean it in a bad way.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but I like what you're saying. Cause I. Sorry to cut you off, but. Dave. But that's what, like, worries me, actually. I know. I hope I articulate this correctly,

[Eugene]

but

[Trevor Noah]

I sometimes feel like it is.

[Vic Mensa]

Oh, man.

[Trevor Noah]

What's the word I would use? I sometimes feel like it is safer, maybe, or. Yeah, safer's the only word I could think of for a society to collectively believe in a lie that moves them in the same direction. Same direction being the key phrase than for everyone to just have their own reality. And I hold. It's a paradox in my brain and it's something I struggle with because I do not wish for any of us to, quote, unquote, be living a lie or be living in a fake world. But then at the same time, if everyone believes their own thing and nobody believes anything, I genuinely believe that's when society just disappears as a concept.

[Dave]

I mean, if you had a central religion as a central, like, ideas. If we take away religion being bad or good. Yeah, but it just goes like, guys, let's believe that we should be nice to each other.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Then you go, okay, as opposed to I should be nice to some people or not nice to. I'm saying to you, yeah, yeah, let's be nice to each other. Otherwise you'll go to hell. Yeah, you know, is like a lie. But it is. But. But it could help it actually is a lie because.

[Trevor Noah]

Except, yeah, it's accepting Jesus as your Lord and savior. That's the thing. It's not about this.

[Dave]

I don't want to go into this,

[Trevor Noah]

but I just don't want Eugene to go into. I don't want you to go to hell for the wrong reason.

[Dave]

I don't want to go into this.

[Trevor Noah]

You don't?

[Dave]

Hold on. This man just said go nobly.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. You know those things you keep telling yourself you're going to do? I should file my taxes earlier this year. I should go to the dentist. I should finally clean out that one drawer that somehow became a storage unit. You know, you should do it. You just don't. And for a lot of people, therapy falls into that same category. It sounds like a good idea in concept. You think, yeah, that would probably help. But then the process starts to feel intimidating. How much does it cost? Does insurance cover it? How do you even find the right person? And when would you have the time? So instead of figuring it out, you just put it off? Well, that's where Rula makes a difference. Rula is a healthcare company that helps make accessing mental health care feel more straightforward. They work directly with insurance providers, so you can see personalized cost estimates up front. No guessing, no surprises. And sessions average about $15. With insurance, you can sign up and find a therapist in as little as five minutes, and appointments can be available as soon as the next day. And what I appreciate is that by removing those common barriers, the cost confusion, the time, the search, it starts to feel more possible to actually take that first step. Because sometimes the hardest part isn't deciding you need support. It's figuring out how to begin. And when that part becomes simpler, everything else becomes a little easier to face. So head to rula.com that's r u l a.com to find a therapist the easy way.

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[Trevor Noah]

Out on the road, it helps to have a partner. Like the Love's Rewards app. Download Love's Rewards today To get switched sweet discounts and earn points on food, fuel, drinks and more. Every time you scan Love's rewards, Save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. See website for details. What do you. What do you think people get the most wrong about you then? Like, because, I mean, the. Here, I. I'll throw it out there. I could be wrong about this. But when I see, like, Vic Mensa, there's so many.

[Eugene]

There's so many

[Trevor Noah]

iterations of you that I've seen over time as you would with any artist in the public eye. Well, there's so many different iterations of you. I wonder what people get wrong about you that you see out there where you're like, no, that's not me. Or that's not how I am anymore, or that's. That's never been me.

[Vic Mensa]

I think people used to think that I was very serious and always wanted to fight somebody.

[Trevor Noah]

You did give off that vibe. No, no, no. You did give off that vibe.

[Vic Mensa]

He said. I did give that.

[Trevor Noah]

I was one of those.

[Eugene]

No, no, no.

[Vic Mensa]

I believe that you thought that was very serious.

[Trevor Noah]

100%. I'm glad you said that, actually.

[Vic Mensa]

Even when I came on your show.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Okay, okay.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I knew you weren't gonna fight me, but I was like, in this.

[Eugene]

In the hallway, who was gonna win?

[Trevor Noah]

I pray to God nobody bumps me.

[Eugene]

I pray to God who's gonna win

[Trevor Noah]

if he fought me. No, come on, look at this guy. He's from Chicago.

[Vic Mensa]

You're from Johannesburg.

[Trevor Noah]

No, my friend.

[Eugene]

No, my friend.

[Vic Mensa]

No, not you. You're not gonna win. No fucking way. I think that that's probably the biggest thing people got wrong.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, One thing, one thing I will say about Johannesburg maybe versus Chicago. I don't know if it's the same. You'll tell me if we can go

[Vic Mensa]

head to head, have ourselves battle.

[Trevor Noah]

One of the. One of the most. One of the most important things Johannesburg taught me growing up with it was Hillbro. Alex, wherever is knowing when and how to run.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, fleeing was never seen as a, you know. Yeah.

[Eugene]

That kind of cowardliness.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. People would be like, they would maybe as a joke, but yo, like, running was actually a high level skill. If you knew when to run, you were just as good as knowing when to fight. So I don't know if it's the same in Chicago.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. I mean, shit, I ran from the polo. I feel like I'm a police runner. From the police.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, no.

[Dave]

Not the police.

[Vic Mensa]

And violence.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, okay, okay. I'm talking about, like, if someone stepped to you. Could you run one on one? Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

No.

[Trevor Noah]

Two on one

[Vic Mensa]

possible.

[Trevor Noah]

Three on one.

[Vic Mensa]

Yes.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, I'm out. Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

One on one. Somebody steps to me with no weapon, how could I run?

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, all right. No, I can't.

[Vic Mensa]

That would be a violation of my moral code.

[Trevor Noah]

There you go. See me? So if you say when you're a

[Eugene]

violation of my moral code, dying if

[Vic Mensa]

they can't have a weapon, you're not gonna die. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

[Eugene]

I don't want to be a surprise ghost.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, so you. So you were. So you were. You've never been or you were not, or you've never been, like, ultra serious, wanting to fight all the time?

[Vic Mensa]

No, no, no, no. I always been Gemini, though, so maybe half the time I could have been.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

I always been. And everything funny to me. All jokes, but also serious and wanting to fight.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay. No, but I. Like, that's balance.

[Eugene]

But people who believe in zodiac signs are very pragmatic because they look at you and they go, what star sign are you? You're like, I'm a Scorpio. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense now. And you're like, why? Then they tell you what your star sign is.

[Vic Mensa]

Gemini is really like that. Gemini is, like, very polar. Very polar. I mean, Kanye is a Gemini.

[Eugene]

Scorpio who. And then what about those ones?

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, I don't know nothing about Scorpios. I know about.

[Eugene]

How many star signs do you know? Taurus.

[Vic Mensa]

No, Taurus is my son.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

The Tauruses are stubborn.

[Trevor Noah]

Yes.

[Vic Mensa]

I just learned about them when I learned about my son.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

You know, Gemini is very polar.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay, okay.

[Vic Mensa]

And cancers. I know cancer.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene]

No, it's a deadly disease.

[Vic Mensa]

I know a little bit about Aries. My girl's an Aries. You know, I love. Aries are fire, fiery.

[Eugene]

Hey, look at this guy.

[Trevor Noah]

You know what I do like about star signs is it comes with a lot of grace.

[Eugene]

That's what I'm saying. Pragmatic.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah. Like.

[Eugene]

Like hear someone. You're like, what star sign?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, but what I mean by it is, like, star signs, they just. They come with a lot of grace. So someone will say, man, this person's stubborn. Ah, that explains it. I think that. Is that what you're saying? Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. There's. There's.

[Eugene]

They allow people to be themselves and

[Trevor Noah]

to have and to contain all of themselves.

[Eugene]

And almost.

[Vic Mensa]

For sure.

[Eugene]

They almost make you feel like the mistakes that. The flaws that people have.

[Vic Mensa]

You blame it on.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

You blame it on them, then you oppose. That is like, being a Gemini is definitely a. Like, mental. It's a mental illness at times. You know what I'm saying? Because you're so polar. You feel one thing with complete passion, and the next day, you think something entirely different. You know what I mean? One day I could be upset and want to fight people all the time, and the next minute, everything's a joke to me. But I think my process of. Of coming into a livable experience is to learn not to be a slave to my nature. My nature as a Gemini is very dual. It's a duality. My nature is that way. But to have integrity is to intentionally choose to make decisions that I can rationalize from any side of my personality. And before, I wasn't like that at all. Like, I was. I was a slave to my nature. You know what I'm saying? And, like, my Gemini would be like, oh, I have to say exactly what I think to this person.

[Trevor Noah]

Right. Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

At the time that I think it, I have to tell him I'm gonna slap him in his mouth and he. He violated. So I am justified. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is the right thing to do, you know, it should be done. It should. Not only it should be done, it will be done. It has. Is that, you know, just growing. Just growing is to come to realize that, like, although my natural proclivity, my inclination as a Gemini is to be this way, that I'm not beholden to that. Like, I can have the discipline to not act out my fucking intrusive thoughts at all times as a Gemini, you know, those are the best ones, but they also get you in a lot of goddamn trouble. They can get you in years of trouble.

[Trevor Noah]

What are intrusive thoughts?

[Eugene]

Mine.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I'm just saying, what are they? Thank you.

[Vic Mensa]

Mine is to flip this fucking desk.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, these are the thoughts you guys are having?

[Vic Mensa]

Just when he said intrusive thoughts, just in that moment, I was like, damn,

[Eugene]

don't you have intrusive thoughts? Like, when you're driving, you're like, if I go like this, what would happen?

[Vic Mensa]

Like an airport.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you?

[Vic Mensa]

You just gotta punch him in the face.

[Trevor Noah]

You see, it's funny that that idea. The first time that came into my head was because you said that. That you said this to me more than, like, 15 years ago.

[Eugene]

You never think of it.

[Trevor Noah]

I. I had never before. You.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Thought of possibly veering my vehicle into opposing traffic just to see what happens. Yes.

[Vic Mensa]

But I'm saying it is your Intrusive thought.

[Trevor Noah]

Actually, that's exactly what it is. This could be like Fight Club, and you're not even real. Think of. Do you realize. You know, I just realized that right now. I just realized right now. You might be real you, but it's

[Vic Mensa]

really the Philly version of him.

[Eugene]

That's the African X.

[Vic Mensa]

He's like, young bull, crash your shit.

[Dave]

Young bull.

[Vic Mensa]

A lot of whack bar. Crash that fucking car. A lot of whack bar. Young bull.

[Eugene]

Oh, man. You know, as we. When we started this conversation, I was wondering why I started gravitating towards your videos. And I understood what it was.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Eugene]

Now after speaking to you, it's. You almost cut it across from our generation of thinking, because him and I go into these rabbit holes a lot. But obviously, we say what we want to say in our way.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, we don't say it the way

[Eugene]

that you say it. But there's two things that you taught me. There's one thing that you taught me a long time ago and there's something that my daughter taught me the other day is. Was giving people grace. 1. And understanding when to use your privilege, because I've always struggled with that. And then I remember when we started doing television, because I started doing television way later than he did, and we did a show together, and there was this one director that was just a douchebag. And I just got angrier and angrier and angrier because in my head, I saw what he was doing as a director as a racist move, and I was ready to quit the show. I remember you called me to the side, and then you said to me, yo, you must understand one thing. They already don't want us here. And I was like, they're the white people. You're like, no, them as a crew, they already think there's someone better who can do this job. Job. It's not about race. If you walk away, you're proving him right. But if you stick around, you're only gonna get better. Then I was like, so it's not about race. He was like, maybe it might be on the side.

[Trevor Noah]

I always said, you never know.

[Eugene]

Yeah, on the side. The tinge of racism. Yeah. But basically, the guy's sitting there going, I know someone who could have done this thing better.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, should have even.

[Eugene]

Should have done it better. And that never left my mind because I was always ready to act on my intrusive thoughts. If someone steps in front of me, they're gone. And then you gave me that. And I was like, Ah, it's using the privilege of knowing that you can do better and you can defeat them by just doing better. And there's other thing that my daughter and I were discussing the other day. It had to do with a place that we booked. And then when we booked the place, they said, something can't be done. Until when? After booking the place, I showed up and they said, you can do anything. And then I said, don't you feel bad for the fact that now you can do anything? After they said, you can't do anything. And she said, dad, I would feel bad if we turned it down from her offer. And I was like, why? She was like, no, it's not just everyone who can do what they like. And if I can do what I like because of how you do what you like and still get paid from it, then I'd be remiss if I didn't take advantage of the fact that we can do what we like.

[Dave]

You know the poignant thing about what you're saying, Eugene, there.

[Eugene]

Yes.

[Dave]

Is that Trev, he told you how to, like, improve the world. Cause you were like, look at this circumstance. There's a better way to handle this.

[Trevor Noah]

Or just a different way.

[Dave]

A different. Yes, a more effective way, you would say. And then you. Cause like, Trevor's driving. And then you're like, you know what? What if you just went into oncoming traffic? This is how we were exchanging it, exchanging ideas. It's like, yeah.

[Eugene]

And with your world, you are able to use everything that you've learned throughout life, throughout your art, throughout your career, to carry out these videos. You understand the privilege that you have.

[Trevor Noah]

It is the culmination of Vic Men's 100%. That's what I would call it.

[Eugene]

Like, 10 years ago, this Vic wouldn't exist. But with the travel that you've had, the work that you've done, the people that you've met, it makes whatever you have to say very poignant because you've lived it.

[Trevor Noah]

And if I may add to that, I don't think you should ever take for granted how descranifying the message, like, how important that is.

[Vic Mensa]

What is descranifying.

[Trevor Noah]

So oftentimes the things you're talking about are delivered by scrawny people that nobody

[Dave]

wants to listen to in dashikis.

[Trevor Noah]

No, you wish. It's dashikis I'm talking about, like, when he's talking about, like, anything. Iran, the petrodollar, like, race. You know what I mean? The carceral state. You name it. A lot of the time the people who are talking about some of these topics, scrawny geeks that nobody wishes to, like, be like, no offense, but like the messenger. You know, that's one of the reasons that Nelson Mandela was chosen. Right.

[Eugene]

Mm.

[Trevor Noah]

Is because the anc, he wasn't the most, like, senior member in the anc. He wasn't like the.

[Eugene]

He wasn't even the most outspoken one.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And then someone saw him speaking. Walter. Yeah.

[Eugene]

Was Walter.

[Trevor Noah]

Walter Sisulu. And was like this guy. The thing that he's doing and the way he's doing it is the perfect vehicle for our message because people realize. I mean, it's the same reason Rosa Parks wasn't the first person who had an issue on the bus.

[Eugene]

Yep.

[Trevor Noah]

But she was the first person where civil rights leaders who were running that movement at that time were like, she's the perfect person for us to take this forward.

[Dave]

You. You.

[Trevor Noah]

I don't think you should ever take for granted that everything about you just like one. It doesn't really exist.

[Eugene]

Mm.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, there's no one else like you in. If we overlap everything, you know, whether it's punk, hip hop, the tattoos, the Chicago, the Ghanaian, the, like, you name it, you name it. There's no one like you doing that. So when that vessel presents that video, that message and that story, someone can't be like, yeah, but of course you would say, this coming from Connecticut. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. It's easy for you to say, you know, because you're stuck.

[Dave]

I feel like that's.

[Vic Mensa]

I like what she said about privilege too, man. I mean, I think about privilege a lot, man. And that, like, one has to be, like, cognizant and conscious of your privileges in order to even have an effective message, you know what I'm saying? In order to have an authentic message. Because we all have different privileges, you know what I'm saying? We might be oppressed in ways be it for our race. I mean, we're all black men on this show right now, but we're also all men. So we also have a tremendous amount of privilege by being men, you know what I mean? By being able bodied men, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many things that go into it. I think about that a lot, especially having a white mother and having certain comforts in life that have come along with that. And with my father's occupation, him having the privilege to be the only one in his family to come to America. America.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? Like the rest of my family in Ghana, they live in. In pretty. In pretty abject poverty, you know, I mean, by. By an American standard, for sure.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

I mean, it's by. It's far from the bottom of the barrel in. In their community, but, like, by our standard, like not having working restrooms and.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

Roofs caving in and. You know what I mean? Like, working jobs for 50, 60, $70 a month, like, that's an unfathomable fucking reality, you know what I'm saying? But my dad came to America. He had the privilege to get an education here. And so I'm living as both the fucking result of a lot of privilege in the midst of a lot of oppression at the same time, you know what I'm saying? And I think a lot of time, no, I can see even members of my own family, just people close to me that might have trouble acknowledging their privileges because of the amount of trauma, pain, and oppression that they feel, which is valid. But it's like, yo, without acknowledging our privileges, then the conversation is only half authentic. It's only half real. It's incomplete. You know what I'm saying? Without acknowledging our privileges. Which is why I do. Like, in this conversation, you're doing a lot for me by bringing a renewed lens to class. Because I do think that I get caught up in the hamster wheel of a fixation on race. Even when you were talking and you were like, something about race. And I was like, everything's about race. You know what I'm saying? Because in a way, in America, but

[Trevor Noah]

I argue it is.

[Vic Mensa]

It also is.

[Trevor Noah]

We had an episode just to introduce. We had an episode with Sam Morrill, the comedian, right, who's on this podcast. We made a joke about something, and I think it was like jingle Bells maybe or something. Just a joke randomly. And then we talked about one thing, and then I said to Sam, I was like, oh, that actually has racist roots. Like, fully, fully. And then we laughed and we talked about it, and then he said something else, and I think we said jingle Bells or whatever it was. And then I said, oh, that's also racist. And he's like, what? And I was like, no, I'm joking. I don't know. And then he said. He said. He's like, nah, knowing America, it probably. We checked it up after the show. It was fully racist.

[Vic Mensa]

It was.

[Trevor Noah]

No. So you are right, sort of, even to what Dave was saying about conspiracies and all of that. Both things are true at the same time. It is always about race. But it might not be.

[Vic Mensa]

And just that the class conversation is actually the bigger conversation.

[Trevor Noah]

It's always about class.

[Vic Mensa]

Where do you put the period on the sentence? It's always about class is important. I feel like when you put the period on the sentence only after race, then oftentimes you're left without a full sentence and you're left without like a clear goal. You know what I'm saying? Because if you just fixate on the racial dimensions of things without realizing how they're a front for the actual class struggle that exists, this is a lifetime pursuit. You'll just be frustrated about racism for the rest of your motherfucking life.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You basically chase. Cause what you're doing now is you're chasing the shadow as opposed to the thing that's casting the shadow. And a shadow is real, but it is not the thing that is causing itself. Does that make sense?

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And so that's the difficulty with this is like, we wanna be in a world. When I look at the. Just like all the great minds, it's often been buried when people talk about their work. But MLK spent like a huge amount of his time speaking about classic people now will make, oh, equality for all racially. And that's more convenient because that has sort of been addressed sort of, you know, so people can be like, well, MLK's dream has been achieved. And it's like, no, no, no. But if you go look at what he talked about class wise.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You're like, damn. No, no, no, don't. This guy's rattling the cage. And I think that's why there are politicians today that are experiencing the success that they are. I actually think the death of the old school politician is the age that they still think race is the number one cudgel. And it isn't. Trump didn't win because of race. People will say that he did. And there's definitely parts of his message that are intertwined in and around race. But I argue the man won because of class. He appealed to class in a way that few people fully understand. And that's why him and Mamdani could be in the same room. And that's why people could say, I voted for Mamdani, but I also voted for Trump. And people were like, what?

[Dave]

How?

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, because both of them spoke to class.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So the person who's listening goes, no, no, no. I heard what Trump said. He said that I've been left behind. I have been left behind. Yeah, Even.

[Eugene]

Even that phrase, truth to power. Because people always think you can Only speak truth to power as it comes from a person who's under and then speaking to someone who's above. But someone who's above can speak to someone who's under and speak their truth to that power because that person also has power as well.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, Martin Luther King really became an immense danger when he started talking about a poor people's movement. Oh, yeah, that was for sure. That's when they assassinate you. I mean, Chairman Fred Hampton, he became that immense danger when he made the Rainbow Coalition come.

[Trevor Noah]

When he pulled in poor white people,

[Vic Mensa]

poor white patriots, with the Puerto Rican Young Lords, with the Black Panther Party. When you shift to a focus on class, that doesn't ignore race, which is where I think a lot of the liberals lose me, is that they want to look at class as if race is not an interconnected, intrinsically important dimension of it. When you see people shift to a focus on class, it's when they become a real fucking threat to the power of structure. And Martin Luther King was. I mean, he was living dangerously. Like, he gets sanitized as. As being turned the other cheek, like just a pacifist. But he really wasn't a pacifist. He just had a very brilliant mode of combat, in my mind was that he understood that by using nonviolent techniques, that he could heighten the contradictions with the cameras on. And he made sure the cameras was on so that you saw them getting beaten down and hosed and breaking and hit with bats, and you saw them not responding with violence so that you had absolutely no question about who was the perpetrator.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

You couldn't edit it and get a snapshot.

[Eugene]

Nah.

[Vic Mensa]

You just. It was crystal clear who was in the wrong. And Martin Luther King made sure of that. And I think a lot of my life I felt like, oh, I must choose between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. And I'm more Malcolm X. Cause I'm a punch the. Like back in the face, you know. But like, really though, Martin Luther King's his methodology. It took so much strength. Like, it arguably takes more strength to exercise restraint in the face of violence than to respond with violence. Not that that's the only strategy. You know, I think those things have to exist concurrently. But. But yeah, learning more about Martin Luther. That's why I love that you used him in your newest. Used some of those stories in your newest special. Because his legacy has been. Oh, it's been flattened, manipulated and flattened, like you said, into like some fucking Disney Channel shit.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Vic Mensa]

You know what I'm saying? But really, he was super revolutionary.

[Trevor Noah]

What's interesting as well is how much they moved towards each other. Malcolm X is always framed as this burn it all down person. MLK is always framed as, like, Kumbaya. Let's all hug all the time. And if you look at their writings and what they shared, towards the end of their lives, they sort of gravitated towards the other. Malcolm X was going, hey, maybe we should speak more and maybe we should be a little softer. And MLK was. MLK was like, nah, maybe, maybe we should, you know, protest. Maybe we should riot a little bit more. Maybe we should. It is interesting how we find that middle. And it makes me wonder with you. Like, let's talk, you know, you've got old Vic Mansa. Where?

[Eugene]

Or rather alternate universe, Vic Mansa.

[Trevor Noah]

No, let's talk about, like, the Vic man.

[Eugene]

The Rick and Morty Portal people couldn't

[Trevor Noah]

have, like, known because social media wasn't what it was, right? Who's this guy? Oh, he hip hop artist. But he's also. He wants to fight all the time. He's angry. Whatever. Now we see you, like, in your videos. You're laughing, you're peeling that orange, by the way, how do you peel them so efficient. Like, what. What type of orange is that? I want to know. AI, no, no, no, not. No, no, no.

[Eugene]

I mean this.

[Dave]

I mean this.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I see your hands? Can I just see your hands?

[Vic Mensa]

These hands have built infinite oranges. No, no, no.

[Trevor Noah]

Like, I genuinely want to know. Like, how.

[Eugene]

How do you start the peeling? Because usually I bite.

[Dave]

Do you.

[Trevor Noah]

Do you peel orange?

[Eugene]

I bite the.

[Trevor Noah]

Let me tell you something.

[Eugene]

Then I go in because my thumbs.

[Vic Mensa]

I don't know, I don't toss my thumb.

[Trevor Noah]

You make it seem like it's the easiest thing ever.

[Eugene]

My man. Have you ever tried to start an orange? Yes, you start.

[Trevor Noah]

But like, you. I've never seen a video where you go in and you're like, yo, let's talk about the subjugation of people.

[Eugene]

You just could end up with two halves. Yeah. So how do you. First, how do you penetrate?

[Vic Mensa]

I control. Whoa,

[Trevor Noah]

Whoa.

[Dave]

You're definitely not from watching this on YouTube.

[Eugene]

You'll see my hands.

[Vic Mensa]

Take it easy. I.

[Eugene]

All right, I got you, I got you.

[Trevor Noah]

No, but for real, how do you.

[Vic Mensa]

Like, I could try to edit.

[Trevor Noah]

Those are the two questions. Okay. Secondly, how many oranges are on this tree?

[Vic Mensa]

Infinite. It blooms year round.

[Trevor Noah]

These are the biggest things that have plagued me about this series.

[Eugene]

And I'm the psycho for biting the first.

[Trevor Noah]

No, I don't Think you're. I don't think you're crazy at all. Sometimes an orange needs to be bit. Yeah.

[Eugene]

Then just to open up the.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no, he's right.

[Eugene]

The gateway.

[Trevor Noah]

He's. I want to see your.

[Dave]

You know where it is. Sorry. Just a thing is, you know, when you have a. It used to happen with beer drinkers a lot, but when they have a bottle of beer and then they can't open it, then they go.

[Eugene]

With their teeth.

[Dave]

Yes. It's like, what do you. Cause some people are like, no, I have to find a bottle opener.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Dave]

You know that.

[Vic Mensa]

So if you could roll the motherfucker first. And it gets softer. Somebody told me that. Cause they saw me struggling to open them, and they was like, yo, you need a roll it.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, okay. So someone had. Okay.

[Eugene]

Yeah. But the structural integrity of the orange

[Trevor Noah]

goes away when it does become. It does. Yeah. But what I. This is all I was searching for.

[Vic Mensa]

Roll it.

[Trevor Noah]

I wanted to know if we've met you as a masterful orange peel, like, peeler.

[Eugene]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Or if you have developed into this. Now you've answered my question.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. Once I had the tree, then I started to learn more about oranges.

[Trevor Noah]

Okay.

[Eugene]

What did you learn about oranges, actually?

[Vic Mensa]

Well, just how to peel them. Like how to roll it. I don't know the science of this tree. I don't know why this tree blooms year round.

[Trevor Noah]

I. I genuinely. I'm so frustrated.

[Vic Mensa]

But it does, though. It blooms in all seasons. I have no clue why. I wish I had a more witty answer.

[Trevor Noah]

What made you do it the first time?

[Vic Mensa]

I was talking about, you know, I was talking about South Africa, low key. It was like right around the time I was talking about South Africa, near when the South African. The white genocide.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[Vic Mensa]

Was taking place. And I had a friend come over to, like, film something with me in my studio. And I just had that idea. It was no, like, serendipitous moment, but it was right around the time when I was talking about the white genocide

[Trevor Noah]

or something like that.

[Dave]

Didn't it have that feel of like. Or at least me. If you'd asked me how you got to it, I would have been like, whatever was in that backyard was going down. So if you had, like, chickens there, he was going like, kill a chicken while I was.

[Vic Mensa]

If I had chickens. And I was just like, you know, I am a voodoo man. A sheep. My grandfather was voodoo ceremony. So it would have been a different vibe. I didn't know Azalea Banks. I pulled a goddamn chicken. I Said, you know, what about racism? It's like a. It's like a chicken's nip. You gotta rip it.

[Trevor Noah]

I mean, all of these things are. You're lucky the tree blooms all year round. Now you'd be like, vic, we need a video. It's out of season, man. You gotta wait for the next. Just everything that came together. Where do we find you now in the journey? Like, where are you going next? What are you up to? What are you. Cause now again, to go back to how people perceive someone, I think there are a lot of people who like, see you as that guy now, and I've just learned to accept this. You know, we've spoken about this. Like, people meet you where they meet you, right?

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

And they'll just, like, know you as they know you. So you'll be the orange guy who says the news. And then my favorite thing will be, like, how people describe it when they see you. They'll be like, oh, man, he's the orange news guy. Oh, he's the.

[Eugene]

He's the.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, I've heard everything for myself. My favorite one was, they said he's that. He's that. What did they say? He's that British news nigger from South

[Vic Mensa]

Africa, whoever he may be.

[Trevor Noah]

But when they said that, I was like, that's the greatest description.

[Vic Mensa]

British.

[Trevor Noah]

They said, the British news nigger from South Africa. And I went. You said British, but you said South Africa. So I. I love that. I'll take it.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

So, like.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, I see it the same way, man. You know what I'm saying? Like, having done and continuing to do many things, I find that people. People might find me in an album cycle, and they'd be like, you know, this music. I love this. People might find me while I'm acting on a TV show and be like, oh, oh, I like that TV show. You know, people might find me while I'm doing this and be like, man, what's up with them oranges? Do they really grow on the tree?

[Trevor Noah]

That was me. He just impersonated me. God damn it.

[Vic Mensa]

No, that was the fucking. That was. The flight attendant on the way here

[Trevor Noah]

was asking about the.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah. He was like, are they. He's like, are they. Are you gonna run out?

[Trevor Noah]

I'm not the only one.

[Vic Mensa]

The flight center, you said what?

[Eugene]

That was Trevor's worry.

[Trevor Noah]

It was my biggest worry.

[Eugene]

In fact. That's when I buy oranges.

[Trevor Noah]

It does not. It does not seem like a sustainable. I was just like, man, I was

[Eugene]

worried because you're from South Africa. That's why. Because in South Africa, we only get oranges in winter.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. I was just like, it's an orange tree. It can't just have oranges.

[Vic Mensa]

It just blooms year round.

[Trevor Noah]

You have been gifted, my friend. You've been blessed.

[Vic Mensa]

I'm working on developing it into a show. I'm working on, like, also, like, some scripted TV stuff and finishing my album right now. So a lot of different things coming.

[Trevor Noah]

Is your, Is your album an opportunity to depart from what you're speaking about, or does the album give you an opportunity to incorporate what you're speaking about? How. How do you think about that as an artist?

[Vic Mensa]

It's a bit of a departure. I mean, it's an album that I already had. You know what I mean? Like, I was making this album and had so much of it before I started doing the orange tree thing. I honestly started doing that because I didn't have the funding to put the album out the way I wanted to put it out.

[Trevor Noah]

Oh, damn.

[Vic Mensa]

I didn't have the distribution, I didn't have a label. And so I was like, what can I do in the meantime, in between time, right. You know, to, to connect to people, you know what I mean? And to express myself and, and, and I landed there. But in a lot of ways, it's like. It's about family. It's about me coming into fatherhood. There's a lot of African sounds manifested in my own way. So it's not like an overtly political album. It's got moments like that. But that's not the, that's not the heart of it, you know. It's called Mansa Musa Mensah. So it's about my son's beautiful man, like, at its root, you know what I'm saying? But I also, I did this short film that's like marrying the orange tree shit to the narrative scripted thing I was talking about. And so that's coming out soon. We get off here. I want to show you guys. Cause I make some.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, that'll be amazing.

[Vic Mensa]

I talk about some things that I think will relate to.

[Eugene]

Nice.

[Trevor Noah]

Yo, man, this has been everything and more.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah, I appreciate you guys.

[Trevor Noah]

Nah, man, I genuinely. Can I tell you, I, I. Let's say if I, if I separate, like the human you side of it and the, you know, the things you're doing, he'll tell you, this is like how I am in the world about the Internet in particular. I just, I spend an inordinate amount of time worrying that the Internet, social media, whatever we wanna Call it gave birth to something that was beautiful in that it democratized a platform. It democratized opinions, you know, opinions. It really diffused the power that was once contained by a few. But I think if we're not careful, it can also incentivize everyone to become a few. You know, so everyone's cooking, channels look the same. Everyone farms outrage, the same everyone. Everyone tries to find craziness, the same, everyone. And genuinely, what I love about what you do is you haven't reduced yourself to a caricature. You just. You don't seem to be trying to pour fuel on any fire. Like, one of my favorite moments was when you went back in to speak about Iran and how people had, like, misinterpreted you. Like, no, no, guys, let me try and articulate this for you even more clearly. And I was like, that there is. Is the antithesis of what, like, the Internet is experiencing right now. You didn't double down. You cut back and you elaborated. And I was like, this is the most beautiful thing because it. It opens up space and conversation. So I just want to say to you, as a human being living through this, I go like, man, thank you,

[Vic Mensa]

thank you, thank you for doing that for real. I appreciate that a lot. Yeah, the Iran. I mean, yeah, the Iran situation, too, was like. I felt like I learned more information talking to people that I respected once I had already spoken, and I tried to make a decision that I think is important for me just as a human being to be like, I'm willing to adjust my perspective.

[Trevor Noah]

See, this is what I'm talking about.

[Vic Mensa]

As new information comes in, that gives me more context and I have more understanding, you know what I mean? Like, I have to be. I think so often it's easy to be rigid and be like, well, I already said what I said, and so it is what it is, you know? But that wouldn't be honest. You know what I mean? I think at the end of the day, I'm trying to be real, honest, authentic. And when I learn new information, I want to be able to adjust.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah. But even those we hold in the highest esteem, I don't think. I don't think do that in the most honorable way. So I look at newspapers. The amount of times they print a retraction in the tiniest corner of the newspaper, I go, I'm not saying, you know, put it on the front page, but put it where the original story was, at least. Just instill in people the idea that you can make a mistake publicly and go like, oh, yeah, did I. Yeah, I actually didn't know at the time. And I didn't think. Cause it's not always malicious. That's the main thing is it's not always malicious. And what I found interesting was you didn't put it in the comments. You didn't put it below. I watched a video the other day of. It was like a super viral video where someone was talking about Justin Bieber performing at Coachella, and they were saying, do you know the real reason Justin Bieber played all of his music off of a laptop is because he sold his rights. So he sold all of his publishing and his rights, and he can't perform that. So this was a genius movie. Plays the YouTube video, and then Justin Bieber's able to have his songs, but he can't perform them. He's legally not allowed to. And then it was like, no, that's not the thing. Coachella pays a license fee. Anyone can sing any song. That thing's covered. He was doing something artistic. And then when people corrected this viral video, they then in the comments just put a little. They left the video up. But then they said, I should have included the fact that this doesn't actually apply to Justin because you can perform what you want. But still, it's an interesting thing to think about, isn't it? I was like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Like, you are so obsessed with the view count that you're willing to throw away everything else. And what I found impressive was you made a video as prominent. You got an orange. You came out, you did the. It's not like you were like, all right, me clarifying this doesn't deserve this. It wasn't like, now Vic Mensa's in his bedroom. Hey, guys. So I put out this video a while ago, and I just wanna say I'm sorry.

[Eugene]

Holding a prickly pear.

[Trevor Noah]

Exactly. Same orange, same tree, same vest. Same vest. And he came out and he's like, yo, let me say this. Let me elaborate. Let me tell you what I've learned. Let me. That, to me, I genuinely mean it. I went like, ah. It inspired me. I appreciate it. And I was like, that's what we all need more of in this amorphous place called the Internet.

[Eugene]

You know what?

[Trevor Noah]

Seeing people change and evolve, appreciate that in front of us.

[Eugene]

That's incredible, man. And you shouldn't leave yourself out of it, because a lot of people.

[Trevor Noah]

Don't do this to me. Don't change your eyes when you talk to me like that. I see what you're doing. Change your eyes.

[Eugene]

What if I retract my upper lip?

[Trevor Noah]

Now carry on.

[Eugene]

Okay. Yeah. So a lot of people, when confronted by their friend about calling them and the phone ringing.

[Trevor Noah]

I knew it.

[Eugene]

At a certain time, his eyes gave him away. A lot of people would say, you know, that's how network works, and that's how. Because WI Fi. We're in the same place, a lot of people will never actually take the phone and dial their friend and put on speaker and hear how many rings there are and have the same said friend on the side acknowledging.

[Trevor Noah]

Can I tell you this is a

[Dave]

blatant lie that you. Can I tell you, you know, what we're gonna do? And then power through as if he didn't lie immediately.

[Vic Mensa]

I will say sometimes. Sometimes I do that, though. Sometimes I try to call the. At a time, and I'm like, man, just call this nigga with two rings.

[Trevor Noah]

We're gonna.

[Eugene]

We're gonna hang up, hang up, hang up.

[Dave]

My phone's on silent.

[Trevor Noah]

Whoa, whoa. Oh. I want to set. Yo, can you hear me? Yo, yo. So we're having a discussion here, and I'm not going to lead you in any direction. There's. We're having a discussion about that.

[Eugene]

The.

[Trevor Noah]

The amount of rings people hear or see on WhatsApp versus how many the caller initiates. What is the discussion we've been having about this? I'm here with, like, Kibuka and Eugene.

[Vic Mensa]

The amount of rings that people see versus. Oh, as if.

[Eugene]

If. If.

[Trevor Noah]

When. I think you've called me and then

[Vic Mensa]

you've given up straight away, but you

[Eugene]

might have gone 10. You might have gone 10 deep. Is that what you're saying?

[Trevor Noah]

Yes. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Because now Kibuka does not believe.

[Dave]

No, I didn't say I don't believe.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, you said Kibuka doesn't believe that I called him and waited like, a. Like a shit long amount of time. He says he got, like, two rings on his side.

[Dave]

Yeah, I don't believe.

[Eugene]

Yeah, I don't believe that, too. It can't be trusted.

[Vic Mensa]

But also, are you.

[Trevor Noah]

Are you counting them in the cooling phase? No, no, no, no. I was counting in the ringing phase.

[Eugene]

Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

Because he understands that differentiation as well. Yeah, but Dave. Dave has no interest in this whatsoever.

[Dave]

Dave is just here.

[Trevor Noah]

Remember saying I'm a liar who did not want to call him.

[Eugene]

Lars, you know what made the matter worse?

[Dave]

Yes.

[Eugene]

Say your thing was then my attorney

[Dave]

over here,

[Eugene]

after the ringing and the hanging up, Dave called back immediately.

[Dave]

Immediately.

[Eugene]

And the suspect did not answer the

[Trevor Noah]

phone because I was on a bike riding back from Pickle so quickly.

[Vic Mensa]

Me. That's funny.

[Trevor Noah]

Who speaks on their phone while riding a bike? There's only one person on this call and I'm not that person.

[Vic Mensa]

I would be suspicious about Trevor and anything phone related.

[Eugene]

There we go.

[Dave]

D I'm hanging up now.

[Trevor Noah]

This has been great, man.

[Vic Mensa]

Hey, appreciate you guys, man. What's up man? Appreciate y bro. Philly.

[Eugene]

You know how we do, man.

[Trevor Noah]

This is the worst thing you could have left.

[Vic Mensa]

I'm a nigger.

[Trevor Noah]

Philly.

[Vic Mensa]

Eugene.

[Eugene]

I'm Aniga.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Vic Mensa]

I'm Anigas. Oh man, this was dope. Thank you.

[Eugene]

This was so good.

[Trevor Noah]

What Now With Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hat. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music Mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown Random Other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what Now.

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[Dave]

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