← What Now? with Trevor Noah
What Now? with Trevor Noah
WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: First Week
01:00:29
Less than one week in, the 2026 FIFA World Cup is already delivering surprises. Trevor and his football frenemy Joe Opio discuss Germany's 7-1 rout of Curaçao, whether Mexico beat South Africa or South Africa lost to Mexico and why those aren't the same thing, and a statement win from the US against Paraguay. They also dive into the ways football is borrowing from basketball, hand out some early flowers (and a few early critiques), and try to figure out what we've actually learned from a tournament that seems determined to keep everyone guessing.
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- [00:00]
Trevor Noah
This episode is brought to you by Verizon. As an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon is bringing once in a lifetime experiences to their customers. Free tickets to matches, pitch side access during gameplay, and meet and greets with soccer legends. If you're not with Verizon, no sweat. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their offers for new customers. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon. This is what now with Trevor Noah. We made it, Joe.
- [00:41]
Joe
Oh, we did.
- [00:42]
Trevor Noah
We made it. Here we are. What is this? Eight years of planning, four years of waiting, and then one week of chaos. Welcome to week one of the 2026 FIFA World cup, hosted by Mexico, the United States and Canada. You know, even saying it makes it feel as. As jam packed as it's been. More countries hosting than ever before, more games than ever before, more countries participating than ever before. I don't remember the last time I started watching a game in the same country as the games are hosted, by the way. Oh, yeah, at midnight.
- [01:21]
Joe
Yeah, it's first of all, the gestation period. When you said eight years, I went, actually, it's been eight years.
- [01:27]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, it's been eight years of work, of planning.
- [01:28]
Joe
Yeah, eight years in which. Wow. But I feel like now that we are here, and that's the thing about the World cup, now that we are here, it feels like it was worth the wait. It does. Yeah, it does.
- [01:41]
Trevor Noah
Maybe. Maybe that's a good place to start. Like, let's. Let's jump straight into the games. Who surprised you? Who has underwhelmed you? Who shows promise? I mean, like, if we think of the big teams, the one that comes top of mind, you know, because it was one of the most recent games. Germany, they're the first, like, big team who said we're a big team. They're the first team who's shown that they're a big team.
- [02:03]
Joe
They needed it. They had a scare. Of course, at 1 1, you went like, oh, here it goes again. Because Germany, after winning the World cup in Brazil 2014, they have failed in the next two World Cups to make it past the group stages. 2018, they stayed behind, having lost to Mexico in the opening game. And then last World cup, they lost to Japan, and things went downhill from there. So they needed this win. But then when Curacao equalized, they went like, oh, here it goes again. Here it goes again. So, yeah, Germany have definitely, definitely. That was a statement win.
- [02:35]
Trevor Noah
It definitely Was. I mean, beating a team seven one, you know, you think at like, five one, you start relaxing.
- [02:41]
Joe
Germans don't show mercy.
- [02:42]
Trevor Noah
No, they don't. They really don't.
- [02:43]
Joe
But the funny thing is the reaction from Kurasa, like, I've been online and croissant fans, credit to them are like, for us, this was historic. The fact that we were invited to the high table and we held our own for as long as we did, and we scored our first World cup goal ever. Smallest country ever take part in the World Cup. 150,000 people. It means a lot to them. So for them, because we were comparing them to Brazil.
- [03:06]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:06]
Joe
When like, oh, 7:1. Oh, Brazil has handed over the mantle. They were like, no, we are proud. Brazil was traumatized. For us today, it was a national holiday.
- [03:15]
Trevor Noah
It is amazing. You know, one of the things that I love about the World cup is how every team comes to the World cup with a different objective in mind.
- [03:21]
Joe
Yes.
- [03:22]
Trevor Noah
Like, every. Every team. So if you come in as one of the. The big teams, if you're France, if you're Spain, if you're Germany, if you are Argentina, anything less than success, anything less than victory is deemed a failure.
- [03:34]
Joe
Yes.
- [03:35]
Trevor Noah
If you come in as one of, like, the middling teams, then it's like, can you get far?
- [03:41]
Joe
Yes.
- [03:41]
Trevor Noah
You know, so, like, no one's expecting Japan to win.
- [03:43]
Joe
Yes.
- [03:44]
Trevor Noah
No one's expecting Cote d' Ivoire to win. No one's expecting South Korea to win. No one's expecting, you know, Curacao to. But then there's teams like Curacao, actually, and like. And like Qatar and all these teams where it's like, if they get one goal.
- [03:57]
Joe
Yes, yes.
- [03:58]
Trevor Noah
They. They treat it like they've won the World Cup.
- [04:00]
Joe
Yes. And I think in fairness to Curacao, they were handed the toughest opening game of all the small teams.
- [04:07]
Trevor Noah
You think so?
- [04:08]
Joe
Yes. Because Haiti, you know, they lost to Scotland. But Scotland, you go like, you know, if Scotland had beaten Haiti 7:1, you can be disappointed. But they're facing Germany, who are four time. It's like the worst way to welcome them to the World cup party.
- [04:23]
Trevor Noah
Or the best way.
- [04:24]
Joe
Yeah, the Germans. Oh, yeah, actually.
- [04:25]
Trevor Noah
Or the best way because you can
- [04:26]
Joe
only go up, you know.
- [04:27]
Trevor Noah
You know, I don't know if you. I don't know if you saw this. After the game, some of the German players went and prayed with the.
- [04:34]
Joe
Oh.
- [04:34]
Trevor Noah
With the players from Kursao, the players from Curacao, and I was just like. It was like a beautiful moment, but I was Also, like, that's when you know someone has demolished you is when they're even gonna pray with you after the game.
- [04:43]
Joe
You were Sportsmanship. Like, that's. I like that, though. That's when I knew.
- [04:47]
Trevor Noah
That's when I knew that, like, you know, when I got, like, the biggest spankings from my mom was when she prayed with me afterwards.
- [04:52]
Joe
She was like, oh, when she was like, yeah, yeah.
- [04:54]
Trevor Noah
She was like, now that you got your beating, come, let's pray. Let's pray that this never happens to you. Pray for forgiveness.
- [05:01]
Joe
You also make it seem like the Germans had a bit of residual guilt. They were like, oh, I've never.
- [05:06]
Trevor Noah
I've never seen that, though. I've never seen.
- [05:08]
Joe
They didn't do it to Brazil, certainly.
- [05:09]
Trevor Noah
No, they didn't. And Brazil also has religious players in the team.
- [05:12]
Joe
Yes. Yeah.
- [05:13]
Trevor Noah
But they went and they prayed with them, which I like. It had the spirit of the World cup, you know? You know who didn't pray after beating their opponents? Mexico against South Africa in the opening.
- [05:22]
Joe
Yo, man, to be fair, I thought South Africans. And I told you this. I think South Africa beat itself. I don't think Mexico beat South Africa.
- [05:33]
Trevor Noah
You don't think so?
- [05:34]
Joe
No, I don't think.
- [05:35]
Trevor Noah
Okay.
- [05:35]
Joe
I say more. How so? They committed an error at the opening.
- [05:38]
Trevor Noah
The opening goal was a gift by the defensive midfielder.
- [05:43]
Joe
Failed to turn the ball.
- [05:44]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, turned. He scanned way earlier, received the ball, but his touch was horrific. And then he was chasing the ball, and then it was too late.
- [05:53]
Joe
Yes. And then the two red cards didn't help. For me, I feel like South Africa. Look, I know South Africans think that maybe their team is hopeless after that, but I think the result. I think South Africa was very. First of all, they played way cautiously. They were way. They played almost negatively.
- [06:12]
Trevor Noah
That's the issue that I think South Africans have, is we're not concerned about, like, we don't think the team's hopeless.
- [06:17]
Joe
Yes. Yes.
- [06:18]
Trevor Noah
It didn't look like we were trying to win the game. And you don't go through by drawing three. Three games. You get what I'm saying? Like, you don't come to a World cup, draw three games and then think that's enough to take you through.
- [06:27]
Joe
No. But also, if you go. As a coach, if you go, okay, we're going to play conservatively the way, let's say Japan played the opening minutes of their game against you go, like we're going to play. You're hoping none of your players makes a mistake, because then when your player makes a Mistake. And then you gift the other team a goal. Now your plan goes out of the window.
- [06:44]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but then I would. But then I would argue, right? If you're playing a game like that, you're playing against a team that has way more players playing in Europe, you know, the Mexican team, even on paper, seems like a better team than South Africa. Then do what, do what Japan did against the Netherlands in the, in the first half. They didn't, they didn't waste too much time holding the ball. They made sure they moved the ball to the other side of the field. Get the ball out of your danger area, then play. See if you can get. See if you can. Because the pressure, people, the pressure's on you. Mexico's at home in a historic stadium. Their fans are all behind them. All of Africa is up against you as South Africa. So you have like double the fan base against you. And there's the nerves. There's the nerves of all of this. Why are you playing a game that relies on calm when you're that nervous? I would have, just to be honest, I would have played that game out. I would have played it closer to Japan. Who. Yo, they had a great.
- [07:38]
Joe
But you, you asked me about the team that surprised me the most. Japan. I expected it.
- [07:41]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, the team.
- [07:42]
Joe
Because Japan, you know, as I told you, they have beaten Spain, they have beaten Germany in the last World cup, they've beaten Brazil and they've beaten England in their friendlies. And I expected, I expected them to hold their own against the Dutch. The team, that team that blew me away was the U.S. i watched that game. You couldn't recognize the U.S. you kept asking, who is this? Yes.
- [08:02]
Trevor Noah
The United States of Spain. That was, that's what that was.
- [08:05]
Joe
That was incredible. Yes. United States.
- [08:06]
Trevor Noah
United States of Goazos. The United States of Tikitaka. The United States of Total football. The United States of Travellas. The United States of Total like the pressing up the field. Do you know what I mean when you, when you look at that team and how they were playing the game. Yo, I, I still cannot get over. Okay, here's, here's what's more interesting to me. It's not the fact that Team USA played the way that they did. It's that Team USA seems to have hidden this until now.
- [08:32]
Joe
They didn't beat Uruguay for one, which was impressive, but I thought it was a one off.
- [08:37]
Trevor Noah
Yes, but beat versus how they played.
- [08:39]
Joe
Yes, yes. It was very unamerican. And I know normally in America that's a bad thing, but when it comes to Football styles. That was a very un American style. It was yoga bonito.
- [08:53]
Trevor Noah
It was truly yoga bonito. Yeah, it was beautiful.
- [08:56]
Joe
Anton Robinson was inviting. Sargino Desto was inviting. They were attacking. Pulisic was having fun on the wings. You had Weston McKinney making, like, runs into the box. It was. Every player deserved a 10.
- [09:08]
Trevor Noah
Can I tell you?
- [09:09]
Joe
Every player.
- [09:10]
Trevor Noah
If you invested in all of those players before that game, you would be receiving the highest return on investment. Like their, their stock price after that game has skyrocketed.
- [09:20]
Joe
You would be receiving higher returns than even. Than even the SpaceX employees. Yeah.
- [09:23]
Trevor Noah
No, no, no. This is like. This is. There's no one like Balagon, for instance. He went from, who is this guy? Only, like, deep. Football fans knew Balagon and now he is a sought after striker.
- [09:35]
Joe
His runs off the ball in that game.
- [09:36]
Trevor Noah
His touches on the ball.
- [09:37]
Joe
His touches, yes. His striking the goal. He scored the second goal was insane. That touch to. Oh, my God. And again, because now I'm wondering, do we credit Pochettino for that? Because these are the same players, these same players under the old coach, Greg Balalta. It's the same team. Exactly. Almost the same exact team.
- [09:58]
Trevor Noah
Same thing. Balagun, everyone.
- [10:00]
Joe
Yes, but they've changed. Something has changed.
- [10:02]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [10:02]
Joe
Then you have to credit the coach. And I think people. That's when people go like, oh, you need a top coach as well. You need a top coach. Because normally the coaches for the international teams don't get as much time with the players.
- [10:12]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, they don't.
- [10:12]
Joe
So it's harder for them to impose their philosophy. But Pochettino has clearly found a way.
- [10:17]
Trevor Noah
No, he's found a way. I mean, has he also found pressure now, though? Like, I always wonder if you want to just win versus thrash the opponent going into the next game. Cause I. Part of me wonders if now Team USA has put a target on their backs. And at most World Cups, I find the winner is generally somebody who escapes the magnifying glass at the beginning. You know, you escape that focus. You look at Argentina and Qatar.
- [10:45]
Joe
Yes.
- [10:45]
Trevor Noah
You look at Spain in 2010, you look at any tournament, even France when they won it. Like, you just. You look shaky. No one's watching you. Everyone's thrashing everyone on the other side. And then you sort of sneak through to the knockouts. And then you win a game here,
- [10:58]
Joe
you win a game there, and you
- [11:00]
Trevor Noah
win another game, next thing you know, you've won the finals.
- [11:01]
Joe
I'll agree with you. Because I think one of the truths about any tournament is the Team that wins the tournament has to peak at the right time.
- [11:11]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, you do.
- [11:11]
Joe
So you can't pick early.
- [11:12]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, you completely.
- [11:13]
Joe
Because then the thing you're saying, you pick too early and then there's a target on your back, but everyone is watching out. So you have to almost, like, pace yourself, so to speak. But I think for the US as the hosts and coming in with the problems they had, like. Cause there was so much external noise surrounding the team.
- [11:28]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [11:28]
Joe
Fans are not invested. There's the political ramifications. There's all this stuff that, like, shut all that down.
- [11:35]
Trevor Noah
Let me tell you something. The fans were invested. Sofi Stadium was electric.
- [11:39]
Joe
No, no, no. But I mean, like from the national
- [11:41]
Trevor Noah
anthem, like, you know, that's when you know. That's when you know your team's having a good day. From the national anthem, people were like, this might be the best national anthem I've ever heard in my life. And then the team came out and they were like, this could be the best US perform. This could be the best goal. This could be the best. And then Travella, to top it off, there's a few better ways.
- [11:58]
Joe
That was the best way because Americans also love a great ending. So if you're winning three nil, but you are up three by the 60th minute, then they're like, yeah, but the last minutes, that was a dramatic way to send everyone home. But I'm saying the reason I say funds are invested now, there are people who didn't care about football. That's the hardcore fans were already there. But there are people who didn't care. But we've been in America long enough to know that Americans only care about winners. They don't care what you do. They don't care. That's why you hear talks about, like, you know, when you hear Americans going like, oh, this is a come. We'll have a comeback story. Well, it doesn't matter what you do. If you can come back, if you can win. America is a country that's built on second acts.
- [12:40]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, Rocky.
- [12:41]
Joe
Yes. So long as you come back and win. And so for me, people were not engaged with the game, but when they saw America beating another country by four goals, they're like, yeah, we're in. We are dominating. That's what America loves.
- [12:52]
Trevor Noah
The only thing I think people love more than a comeback story is mocking the favorite when they don't. When they don't perform. Like, if you look at some of the countries who were meant to win one, that springs to mind. Turkey playing against Australia Yeah, there. Balogun, one of their players, he gave a, he gave an interview before the game where they're asking him, how do you think it's going to. He was like, we're going to dominate them. He was like, we sounded a little bit like wembanyama. He's like, ah man, we're going to dominate them. You know, we're going to. This is what we do. We got this game. Did you see there was a clip of Ada Guler, one of the attacking players, remember? Yeah. From Turkey in the, in the. What do you call in the tunnel right before they come out onto the pitch. And it's just him talking to his teammates, to his teammates. And he shouts out, he shouts out. He's like, guys, we're way better than them. Let's prove it on the field. And then you cut to 90 minutes later and they're losing two nil. Not even two one by the way, two N to the soccer roos, which can I just add, like if you call your team the Socceros, I feel like you've trolled everyone you play against because it seems like you don't take it seriously.
- [13:58]
Joe
It's actually so funny that we never mock the Australians for that cuz we mock Americans for calling it soccer. And did those trails, even America went like, no, we'll not call our team the soccer rules. The Socceroos is. Yes, imagine that. Who beat you?
- [14:11]
Trevor Noah
The Socceroos.
- [14:12]
Joe
Yes.
- [14:13]
Trevor Noah
The Socceroos did this to you. Don't forget about it, mate. The Socceroos did this to you.
- [14:17]
Joe
Sounds like a made up. Yes, it sounds like if an American was writing a script.
- [14:21]
Trevor Noah
It really does.
- [14:22]
Joe
Soccer like movie or a soccer series. And they go like, oh, our team is soccer. I think, I think it was a terrible, devastating result for Taki or Takiye as we call it these days because I think they are a very passionate people when it comes to soccer. If you've watched like European games and you've seen like the fans of Garatasaray, Fenerbahce or the six stars, a very like basketball is big in Turkey, but football by far is like the national religion. Yes. And for you to lose to a country where football is not even anywhere near the top four sports because remember in Australia it's cricket, it's rugby in is Australian Rules Football, then soccer and then soccer. And for you to lose to that
- [15:03]
Trevor Noah
team, I think maybe even swimming comes before it.
- [15:05]
Joe
Yes. Yeah, exactly. I think it was a crushing, crushing. I don't think anyone in Turkey or anyone back in Istanbul expected that result. I didn't. I certainly didn't expect it.
- [15:14]
Trevor Noah
You didn't expect that at all?
- [15:15]
Joe
I didn't. I didn't expect Australia to even compete.
- [15:17]
Trevor Noah
I don't know why people say that. Maybe, okay, maybe I have a different perspective on Australia. When I've watched them play their games in previous World Cups or when I've watched them in major tournaments. The Australians seem to work hard, they work together and they've never seemed like a walkover. So I don't understand why people were shocked.
- [15:34]
Joe
So they're very Australian team because Australians, by nature, these people built a country out of a penal colony. Like, they work hard. But I'm saying Turkey has, Turkey has some of the brightest talents in world football right now. Yeah, but okay, you know what?
- [15:46]
Trevor Noah
You know what I've noticed has changed in world football though. And I mean, maybe you'll disagree with me on this because you know the game better than I do. But like, I feel like the low block has changed football forever. So I feel like, you know, back in the day, a team and its likelihood of success, in my opinion, was determined by each player and their matchup in that position.
- [16:10]
Joe
Okay. Yes.
- [16:11]
Trevor Noah
Okay.
- [16:11]
Joe
One on one.
- [16:12]
Trevor Noah
So it was like one on one. You've got a very strong winger, you're going to beat my left back or right back, You've got a very strong striker, they're going to beat my center back. You've got a very strong midfielder fielder, they'll beat mine. Etc, Etc. And then with the changing in how the game has been played over the past few years, let's say over the past like 5ish years now, I find a lot of teams are more willing to bring the whole team back to play the game and press and defend. Sort of what people are complaining that like Kylian Mbappe doesn't do at Real Madrid, right. People were saying that Salad was forced to do the season for Liverpool, didn't do it before, but that's what hurt the team. But it's like there are teams who've gone, oh yeah, we might not be as good as you, man for man, but two men for man changes the equation. And if you watch the Australia Turkey A game, there were swaths of the game where Australia had eight men in the box in a straight line, eight men. And then it was like, you know, another two men just in front of them. And that was it. That was their formation in a way. And all they were waiting for was the break. Japan, I could argue, was similar in some ways. They brought Everybody, back when Cody Gakpo from the Netherlands was trying to cut in, they just had their two men on him the entire time. So it doesn't become like a one on one moment. It becomes a can you break through everyone moment. You know, Morocco, I would even argue did that against Brazil. You know, they frustrated Brazil. The one moment Vinicius got a chance
- [17:39]
Joe
to go the rest of the game,
- [17:42]
Trevor Noah
we didn't hear from him.
- [17:43]
Joe
It's a very interesting, it's very interesting to talk about the low block because it's supposed to do exactly that. It's supposed to make the team better than the sum of its parts.
- [17:54]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. Right.
- [17:54]
Joe
So again, as you're saying, if Turkey has Adagulair who plays for Madrid and if Takhi has Kenan Yildiz who plays for Juventus and the Socaros have no one playing in any of the top leagues, then their only option is to work as a team. And that's the funny thing about football. So football used to be a team game that had individual battles. The thing you said about.
- [18:17]
Trevor Noah
Okay, soccer used to be a team game that had individual battles.
- [18:19]
Joe
Yes. So it was a team game. But then there were people like going one on one. So which made it more like a tennis or boxing.
- [18:26]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah.
- [18:27]
Joe
But now coaches are realizing, oh, there's a way for us to nullify a player like Messi, we can't leave him one on one because he's going to beat his man every time. Yeah. For us to notify a player like Lamin Yamal, we can't leave him one on one. What, what do you have to do? You have to double. And I think they're taking that fun enough from games like basketball.
- [18:45]
Trevor Noah
They have, I think, I think soccer has taken a lot from basketball over the years. Like, we've seen the pick and roll come into the game. We've seen screens come into the game. I mean, Arsenal dominated a whole season basically playing set pieces like it was basketball. You've seen that switch come over where. Now teams have also realized that fitness isn't a talent.
- [19:03]
Joe
Yes.
- [19:04]
Trevor Noah
You know, you might pay a lot of money for a talented player, but fitness is something that everyone can just work on. And so if you have a fitter team than the other team, you just make them run, you make them recycle the ball, you get behind the ball. It's A frustrating, that Brazil versus Morocco game. You could tell that Brazil A, was struggling with the fact that this is not their best team. But B, they were frustrated by the fact that they just weren't getting chances to play. And, and by the way, we have to talk about the Moroccan midfielder.
- [19:37]
Joe
Oh, are you Bordi, man? Yeah, yo, everyone like, yo, he's 18 and that Morgan team is very young. But I'm saying I love coaches who can trust a player at that age against Brazil, because also you need the
- [19:54]
Trevor Noah
coach's faith and not just again, Brazil. Look, look who he's playing in that midfield. He was playing against Casemiro, Lucas Paqueta. Lucas Paqueta and Bruno Guimaraes and then switched out to Fabinho.
- [20:04]
Joe
A tough time.
- [20:05]
Trevor Noah
A tough time. They went. Yes, yes, they switched out to.
- [20:07]
Joe
And he still dominated them.
- [20:09]
Trevor Noah
Bossed the game. An 18 year old.
- [20:11]
Joe
It was impressive.
- [20:12]
Trevor Noah
Who 30 days before was the captain for the French.
- [20:16]
Joe
No, that's, yeah, that's. I, I, I think, I think it speaks to Morocco's ascent or rise in world football that they can actually now lure tyrants away from bigger countries. Cause initially I, I, I disagree. Okay?
- [20:30]
Trevor Noah
I disagree.
- [20:30]
Joe
Why? Give me your reason. Because I think.
- [20:33]
Trevor Noah
No, I disagree.
- [20:33]
Joe
I think African teams have struggled before.
- [20:36]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but I, but I disagree. I don't think it's the standing. I think the quality of football has risen so much over all over the world, okay. That now there's a saturation in teams. So if you look at, let's just look at leagues, right? Leagues like the Premier League is better than it's ever been.
- [20:52]
Joe
Yes.
- [20:52]
Trevor Noah
Okay.
- [20:53]
Joe
Yes.
- [20:54]
Trevor Noah
The Spanish league has continuously pumped out some of the most talented players.
- [20:58]
Joe
Okay? Right.
- [20:58]
Trevor Noah
And then you look at like the German league, yo, they're like slowly come. Like you look at Leverkusen, who wasn't like a name a few years ago in that way, but now are challenging for titles and winning titles. You still have Dortmund, you still have Bayern. You know, you go to like the Dutch league where the teams, Portuguese, all, all the teams. When Boro Glimt is now in the Champions League.
- [21:19]
Joe
Yes, yes. In the knockout, actually playing. Yeah.
- [21:21]
Trevor Noah
I think it changes how many players there are now when that happens, I think you find yourself in a situation where national teams are so saturated that as a player, you now risk being number four in a pecking order. So if you look at Ayub Boudi, yeah, he's phenomenal. But what did we say? He was the captain of the youth French team a month ago. Right. If he wants to get into the French squad and take a starting position, he has to come in ahead of Adrien Rabiot or he has to take Zaire Emery's position. And Emery himself comes off the bench or he has to take. Who else is in that midfield. Tchouameni's position, he has to take.
- [22:03]
Joe
Kamavinga didn't even come out on the plane.
- [22:05]
Trevor Noah
Think about that now. So now I think what's actually happened is players have gone. I'm not going to risk my whole career, my international career, sitting out hoping to play for a big team or a big country when I can go and play immediately.
- [22:22]
Joe
Yes.
- [22:23]
Trevor Noah
Another country that I'm eligible for.
- [22:24]
Joe
But the thing is where I say why I talk about the ascent is in the past. So I play like Zidane.
- [22:30]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [22:30]
Joe
A player like Zidane couldn't play for Algeria because Algeria wouldn't make it to the World cup, if that makes sense. So now players go like, oh, I can go for Morocco because Morocco is good enough to get me to the World Cup. So if Morocco.
- [22:44]
Trevor Noah
Chicken and the egg. Yeah.
- [22:45]
Joe
If Morocco couldn't make it to the World Cup, Brahim Diaz would never have declared for them. He would have got to wait and wait for Spence to get there. So I feel like, because they know also it's not just getting there because Morocco is not Curacao, Morocco is not Uzbekistan, Morocco is not Haiti. They're going like, oh, we're going with a team that's going to compete, actually.
- [23:05]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but no, but Joe, this is why I disagree with you. I feel like it's chicken and the egg here. The reason they competed is because those players are there. So the reason Morocco did so well
- [23:14]
Joe
is partly because Hakimi.
- [23:16]
Trevor Noah
Because Hakimi is there. The reason they. So it's like if they're not there, the team doesn't do well.
- [23:21]
Joe
Yes.
- [23:21]
Trevor Noah
So they have to make the decision to go and help the team do well. I argue it's because they're looking at their prospects. Okay.
- [23:27]
Joe
Cuz if Hakimi didn't play, would have played for Spain, you think he would have got in? He would have played for Spain, I think. I don't think, I don't think he would have played as quickly as he did. But you see, would have kept him out.
- [23:37]
Trevor Noah
But that's the point.
- [23:37]
Joe
But still, I think he was good enough.
- [23:39]
Trevor Noah
But that's the point. And you know, when you are a player who isn't necessarily seen as of the country, it's also risky because at some point they might say, oh, but where's the Spanish? Right back.
- [23:51]
Joe
Yes, it is. It is.
- [23:52]
Trevor Noah
There's always an option for that. Yes, it is.
- [23:53]
Joe
Yes, right, it is. But I'm thinking the fact that they can convince players. Now, again, as you say, when you're the captain of the under 18 team for France, you're on the first track basically to get into the French team. Adrian Rabiot is not going to play at the next World Cup. That's true. He's playing now. Many of the players who are blocking Ayubo Boadi are not going to be blocking him two years from now at the Euros. Same thing happened with Lamin. Lamin could have declared for Morocco, but he went like, I'm going to declare for Spain. But if Morocco tried to convince him. But sometimes it's almost like signing a player for a club. You have to convince them of the project.
- [24:29]
Trevor Noah
That's true. That's what the US did with Balagon.
- [24:32]
Joe
So if Morocco comes to Ayubuyadi and they go like, hey, we not only want you to play for our team, but we're going to be hosting the World cup four years from now. And this is what we have in. You know, and we've reached the semi finals.
- [24:44]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
- [24:45]
Joe
It's more. That's what the European teams used to do. They would just go like, no, you come to us, you're going to go to the World Cup. You're guaranteed to go to the World Cup. If John Burns, who was our guest, if Jamaica was good enough back then, as he told you, he played for England when he had a Jamaican passport, but Jamaica was never. And if you read John Burns story, he wasn't even going to play for England. He was just waiting for any team from the United Kingdom. If Scotland had come to him, he
- [25:10]
Trevor Noah
would have played them.
- [25:10]
Joe
Yeah. Because he wanted to go to the World cup. And Jamaica was never going to go to the World Cup. Yeah.
- [25:17]
Trevor Noah
It has become the World cup of. Of switched allegiances.
- [25:19]
Joe
Yes.
- [25:20]
Trevor Noah
Because everyone if, if we go down the running order, like, opening game, opening goal for Mexico scored by Quinones. And he is.
- [25:30]
Joe
He's from Colombia. Colombia should be playing for Colombia. But. But he declared for.
- [25:34]
Trevor Noah
He declared for Mexico. He's lived there since he was like 17. His family's there, his kids are there. He's like, yo, Mexico's my home.
- [25:39]
Joe
Yes.
- [25:39]
Trevor Noah
And so here he is as this player, the U.S. obviously, Pelagon born in the U.S. his story is amazing because it's like he was born here. And if you can believe everything that it's basically, he was just born here because his mom wasn't allowed to fly out.
- [25:54]
Joe
Yes. Oh. Cause America again. Because America has birthright.
- [25:56]
Trevor Noah
Birthright citizenship.
- [25:57]
Joe
Your mom was Born on the soil. Yes.
- [25:58]
Trevor Noah
So he was just born here and then that was it. I don't even think he, like, lived his life here, but here he is, carrying America's dreams. Now in attack. Um, you have. I'm trying to think of who else has done this.
- [26:10]
Joe
Australia had a bunch of players.
- [26:11]
Trevor Noah
Oh, yeah, no, Australia, definitely. Right. You had guys who came into Australia when they were teenagers, you know, went to university. Now, I mean, like, they've. They're running the attack. You had. Who else have we got? We got. Morocco's team was interesting because they made history as, I guess, the first national team at a World cup where none of the players were born in the country that they're representing.
- [26:32]
Joe
Yes, but that's what. That's. That's the thing I'm saying about Morocco's project, because they specifically went out to try and bring this talent back home.
- [26:41]
Trevor Noah
Do you. You know, I was wondering this, though. Do you think it undermines the whole point of a World cup if a player can just switch allegiances to another country at any point? Or is it because there's two ways to think of it, right? On the one hand, you can say the whole point of a World cup is that it's not a competition about which team could get the best players. It's an exhibition of which teams or which national teams were made up of the players they happen to have.
- [27:10]
Joe
Yes, yes.
- [27:11]
Trevor Noah
Another argument is, no, the World cup is just an exhibition of the team that a country could put together. And so whether or not a player's from that country shouldn't really matter. How do you. What do you. Which way do you lean?
- [27:23]
Joe
The way I look at it is. So you said a player can switch, but FIFA is very strict, okay? Once you play in a competitive game for a country, it's done.
- [27:34]
Trevor Noah
Are you sure?
- [27:35]
Joe
It's done. Oh, no.
- [27:36]
Trevor Noah
What happened with.
- [27:37]
Joe
If you play friendlies.
- [27:38]
Trevor Noah
Wait, wait, wait, wait. What happened with. I feel like he was your boy, man. He played at Barcelona, Laporte. Wasn't he. Wasn't he on the French team and then Spanish team?
- [27:48]
Joe
He never played the competitive game. He played in a bunch of friendlies. So you're allowed to be called up, but once you play. Actually, some countries have been accused of calling up players and then captain them. So they call you up for a competitive game, then they know you can never.
- [28:02]
Trevor Noah
You're lying.
- [28:02]
Joe
Yes. When. When they see a good enough player. Because they know. Because now you have. Oh, so you can play.
- [28:08]
Trevor Noah
But that's messed up then.
- [28:09]
Joe
So you can play in the. Under most, actually, the French. And I think Americans also complaining about it because they have so many. So the French have so many players who are born in France who come through the youth system.
- [28:21]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [28:22]
Joe
But then when it's time to declare, they go play for Ivory coast or Senegal. And in French are like, also, we're just developing players for other countries. Same thing with America. Which America is my friend. Yes.
- [28:32]
Trevor Noah
Which they should be.
- [28:33]
Joe
Yes.
- [28:33]
Trevor Noah
If the French. Yo. The French are going to say, we're pumping money.
- [28:37]
Joe
Yes.
- [28:37]
Trevor Noah
Yes. What a nice change.
- [28:39]
Joe
France, France. Now you.
- [28:40]
Trevor Noah
Now you're developing Africa.
- [28:42]
Joe
I'm just talking about the same thing, because not the best player, but one of the key players for Mexico now is Brian Guterres. Yeah. Who helped get the red card. He plays in the hall, but he played for America. He played for the US through the underage system. Then when it came time for the senior team, he went like, yeah, I want to play for my dad's country. And he crossed over to Mexico.
- [29:01]
Trevor Noah
Ah.
- [29:02]
Joe
So FIFA is very strict.
- [29:05]
Trevor Noah
I think FIFA should even change it. I think you should just be able to play for any country where you have held a citizenship.
- [29:11]
Joe
No, but that's very easy to get around because you know what happens? The country. The country just expedites the papers. That's what they do.
- [29:19]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but I mean, if the country wants to do that, they should do that.
- [29:22]
Joe
No, the countries always do that.
- [29:23]
Trevor Noah
I don't. I don't think. I don't.
- [29:23]
Joe
That's what I'm saying is happening now. So if Esmia, kid from Bosnia, who grew up by the. In America. He grew up in America, then he went, and I want to play for. He could have made the American team, actually. He's that talented. They call him the Bosnian Laminal. He's very talented.
- [29:37]
Trevor Noah
Damn. That's a strong compliment. Is that what they call him?
- [29:39]
Joe
She's really, really good.
- [29:40]
Trevor Noah
That's a strong compliment.
- [29:42]
Joe
Remember, when you're kid of immigrants, your dad is pumping. It's almost like your dad is pumping you with propaganda about the old country. He's like brainwashing you from when you were this little. And also mostly normally, if you're a kid of immigrants, your dad and his entire extended family are still.
- [29:59]
Trevor Noah
Well, yeah, they're still home. They're still back home.
- [30:01]
Joe
So if you play for the US if you're a Mexican kid or if you're a kid of Mexican immigrants and you play for the US it doesn't give your dad the same. No, the same, like, you know, the same bragging rights as it would if you go back.
- [30:14]
Trevor Noah
Nor should it.
- [30:15]
Joe
Yeah. So many people, many kids. And I think it's great. Yeah, it's a great. You would want your kid to play. If I had a kid in America, I would want him to play for Uganda because Americans don't care. But my friends back in Uganda would go like, oh, like I would walk in and they would greet me like, like that means that doesn't get the same clout. I think, I think that he would get it back home if it happened. You think about it. Okay.
- [30:41]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Spain versus back home.
- [30:43]
Joe
Yeah, back home.
- [30:43]
Trevor Noah
But he's a weird one. He's a bit of a. He's a bit of a celebrity, though.
- [30:46]
Joe
No, no, he is.
- [30:47]
Trevor Noah
He's an outlier for that argument, I think.
- [30:48]
Joe
Yes. But I'm saying you imagine if your kid was holding Morocco on his back. On its. On his back. If he was leading Morocco.
- [30:55]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, no, that's true.
- [30:56]
Joe
You go back home and you. He would. He would. Okay, here's how I put it. If Lamine's dad, if Lamin was playing for Morocco, Lamine's dad would have the number of the Moroccan king on speed dive. He doesn't have the number of the Spanish king, if that makes sense. If your kid is that good in your home country, they see you as.
- [31:16]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, no, they do.
- [31:18]
Joe
That's the thing that drove Messi, because Messi, Spain really reached out. He spent all his time in la Masia from 13. They really reached out and they gave him a proposal. They weren't. Okay, you still be playing with Xavi. You still be playing with.
- [31:32]
Trevor Noah
And Messi went like, no, Argentina, though.
- [31:34]
Joe
Yes, because.
- [31:35]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but he, but he had a legacy that he could look forward to upholding. I'm more, I'm more impressed by the people who make that decision. The Messi decision for the non legacy. So I'm more impressed by a player who chooses to play for Morocco, who chooses to play for Kurasa, who chooses to play for Haiti, who chooses to play for. I'm more impressed by those players because they don't have a legacy to look back to. They don't have.
- [31:59]
Joe
They're meaning legacy by the countries.
- [32:00]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. Because Messi can see a future where Argentina wins a World cup with him. Does that make sense?
- [32:05]
Joe
Counterpoint, when Messi chooses Argentina over Spain and then he has to watch Spain win the 2010 World Cup. I hear you. But.
- [32:14]
Trevor Noah
But let's. Even when they were at their worst.
- [32:18]
Joe
Yes.
- [32:18]
Trevor Noah
If we ask the average soccer fan in the world. The average football fan. Do you think Argentina can win the World Cup? What would their answer be?
- [32:25]
Joe
They would say yes. Yeah. But then.
- [32:26]
Trevor Noah
No, no, no. So that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you. I'm not saying they were. They wouldn't go through a bad patch. Yes, but when you know, something can be possible.
- [32:33]
Joe
Yes.
- [32:34]
Trevor Noah
Do you know what I'm saying?
- [32:34]
Joe
Okay, but then the counterpoint is Messi retired before Argentina won. He was so frustrated with Argentina.
- [32:40]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but now he's made the decision. He's locked in.
- [32:42]
Joe
Yes. No, no, but maybe he regrets it,
- [32:43]
Trevor Noah
but he's locked in.
- [32:44]
Joe
But I'm saying he retired. He had to un. Retire. But now you imagine you're Messi. You had a chance to play for Spain, you turned it down. You go back to Barcelona and you're watching Xavi win the Euros, the World cup and the Euros again. And in that period, you haven't won anything with Argentina. In fact, yes, you've lost three Copa Americas, you've lost at the World Cup. Part of you is going, like, if I had only made the right decision. But the thing is, he persisted and it ventured. And he says it. He says, the World Cup I won with Argentina means everything to me. If I had won it with Spain, it would not have meant the same.
- [33:26]
Trevor Noah
All right, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor for today's episode. That's Verizon. Now, we all know the FIFA World cup is one of the biggest events on the planet, right? Everybody wants in, which means scoring tickets and is hard. Like really, really hard. Well, there's good news. Verizon is providing their customers with unmatched access. They've given away thousands of free tickets and even given their customers pitch side access during matches. If you're not a Verizon customer, I've got good news right now. More people than ever can get a better deal at Verizon. If you have a bill with AT&T or T Mobile, all you gotta do is bring it in. And if you have a bill with Xfinity or Spectrum, bring that in too, and Verizon will give you a better deal. Plus, you could get bucket list experiences like free tickets to the FIFA World Cup. Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon. So, going back to the games, who do we think should be worried right now? And why, like, let's start with Brazil from, like, all my Brazil friends. All my Brazilian friends are not, like, they're not comfortable. They're the. In fact, I would argue they're the least comfortable I've ever seen them at a World Cup.
- [35:03]
Joe
Yes, but that's because Brazil always has a high bar.
- [35:06]
Trevor Noah
No, Joe, Joe, Joe, wait.
- [35:08]
Joe
Let me explain.
- [35:08]
Trevor Noah
Wait, wait. But Joe, Brazil always has a high bar.
- [35:11]
Joe
Yes.
- [35:12]
Trevor Noah
You know what? Brazil also always has great players. A world class squad. Not just great players. Now they have great players, but they've got a weird roster of great players. Their team looks like a mix of the legends and the youth. You've got a team with Endrick and Casemiro. You know what I mean? You've got a team with Fabinho and Raphinha. You've got a team with like, I genuinely, when I watch the team, I can't tell what the team is going to be like because it doesn't make sense to me holistically.
- [35:39]
Joe
It's a weird mix. Yes.
- [35:40]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. Like, I go, I don't see how Casemiro can play with the other kids on the team. I don't. I don't see how. Like, it's a strange.
- [35:47]
Joe
Yeah, you did, you did say you, you wouldn't know as a coach what style to adopt.
- [35:52]
Trevor Noah
I wouldn't know.
- [35:52]
Joe
Yes.
- [35:53]
Trevor Noah
If I was setting the tactics for that team. I go, do we run fast?
- [35:56]
Joe
You can't.
- [35:56]
Trevor Noah
Do we?
- [35:56]
Joe
Do we doesn't have the legs?
- [35:58]
Trevor Noah
Do we play physical and fight for everything? Do we play slow? Do we? But, but like Igo Thiago, I still say I said to you in the first episode of the podcast, and I'm going to say it to you now after the first game, why is Joao Pedro not here? And I know people are going to keep telling me stories.
- [36:13]
Joe
No, I'll tell. My, my. My suspicion is. My suspicion is Kalan Ch had to choose because also you're picking profiles, Right. And you don't want competing profiles. You want a play. You want players who give you different things because at some point you might need different things. So I think Koshi looked at Yao Pe Pedro and he said, Yao Pedro gives me almost the same thing that Matthias Kunya gives me. Now I have to pick. I have to pick. Okay, I can see that.
- [36:38]
Trevor Noah
Okay. No, no, no. You know what?
- [36:39]
Joe
I can.
- [36:39]
Trevor Noah
I can concede that thing. Like, I hear what you mean.
- [36:41]
Joe
Yes. Have two players who give me the same thing. Okay. Yeah. Or should I have both good at holding up the ball, Both drilling In the channels.
- [36:48]
Trevor Noah
Both with channels. No, no, I can see that. I just think Joao Pedro is a little more attack minded.
- [36:53]
Joe
Yes.
- [36:54]
Trevor Noah
In that way, I. Not like if I was playing Cunha, I'm playing him slightly behind a striker. If I'm playing Joao Pedro, I can play him as a striker, but it's going to be.
- [37:03]
Joe
But then the thing is, if you have to choose between, let's say, Cunha and Igor Tiago, they give you different things. The reason I'm saying Brazil should be worried is the same reason I would say, if Barcelona lost a game and they didn't dominate it, because of the high standards. So Brazil doesn't just have to win, they have to win playing well.
- [37:24]
Trevor Noah
That's true. They can't play terrible.
- [37:26]
Joe
Many other teams go. Germans will go, like, so long as we win. The English will go, like, so long as we win. The Dutch and Brazilians, yeah, they got to play beautiful, different. They go like, we don't care if you're winning. If you're not winning pretty, we're not happy.
- [37:41]
Trevor Noah
Speaking of the English, I feel like you and Mother Nature don't like the English.
- [37:46]
Joe
I.
- [37:46]
Trevor Noah
Look, yo, can we. Can we just talk? Let's just break this down. Let's just break this down. The England team, in the space of four days, had their kit stolen.
- [37:58]
Joe
Yes.
- [37:58]
Trevor Noah
Right. Their training kits, all stolen. I think the police eventually recovered most of it, or all of it.
- [38:04]
Joe
I think Declan Royce's shirt was left behind. No one, even the thieves are like, we're not putting this on.
- [38:10]
Trevor Noah
No, the England, they had their kids stolen. There was like a shooting near the. Near the grounds, like, you know, which just became part of the news. Then there was a tornado warning that was issued, and so the players had to stay indoors. And it was like a violent storm in Kansas. You know, people were like, this is. This is basically the beginning of the wizard of Oz.
- [38:30]
Joe
Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's.
- [38:31]
Trevor Noah
That's. That's what it sounded like. And then on top of that, there's one other thing that went badly for them. What? Were I missing something? There was the kit. It's the tornado watch.
- [38:41]
Joe
Was it the bust something with the bus?
- [38:44]
Trevor Noah
There's something else that happened. England, though, is just. This is either like foreshadowing or it's the trials that come before the tribulation.
- [38:55]
Joe
Look, I think England have the toughest group.
- [38:57]
Trevor Noah
England have the toughest group.
- [38:58]
Joe
Yeah, that's what I believe.
- [38:59]
Trevor Noah
Who do they have in the group?
- [39:00]
Joe
They're playing Ghana.
- [39:01]
Trevor Noah
Ghana.
- [39:01]
Joe
They're playing Croatia. Croatia, they're playing Panama, but they're playing Panama last. So if they lose their first opening games, they're out almost. Because you would want to start with Panama, maybe get three points on the board.
- [39:13]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [39:13]
Joe
Then you can relax.
- [39:14]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. Get confidence.
- [39:15]
Joe
Their first two games are so tough. Maybe not tough. They're so tricky. Anything could happen.
- [39:21]
Trevor Noah
Anything could happen.
- [39:22]
Joe
Ghana turns up. Anything if Croatia turns up. Croatia has had England's number for some time.
- [39:28]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [39:28]
Joe
So for me, I think. Look, when you think. For me, when you tell me they've had all these disasters, part of me just goes like, well, these are the chickens coming home to roast because of colonialism. When you talk about their kids being stolen, I'm like, no, that's reparations being taken back. But look, it's almost hard to. Because of what they did. I'm like, hey, you know. Yeah, this is the English getting their comer pens.
- [39:58]
Trevor Noah
I think this is just the English getting a moment of. Of testing before. Before they receive their reward. Mark my words. You remember these conversations. The English are going to do way better than you think.
- [40:07]
Joe
I think that. I think the English are going to do way better than you think. I think they always make a deep run. I think way. But.
- [40:13]
Trevor Noah
But way, way, way better than you think.
- [40:14]
Joe
I think it's always going to end in a spectacular collapse.
- [40:16]
Trevor Noah
Oh, I had. I. I wrote down a few things. I wanted to make sure we get to. Who do you think's got the best player story so far at the World Cup?
- [40:24]
Joe
Without a doubt, Raul Jimenez. For me, not Ayubuari. Not Ayubadi? Not at all. Raul Jimenez should be playing football. What do you mean he should be playing football? Remember he got a fracture with his. When he had a collision with the keeper, and then he fractured his head eight months out. They had to do, like, things with. He wore a.
- [40:44]
Trevor Noah
He was still wearing a scout.
- [40:46]
Joe
Oh, yeah. He wore the scarf for the longest time. He shouldn't be playing football. He was not supposed to be playing football. And then he scored his first goal for the World Cup. He was crying. He was in tears. So for me, that's the most heartwarming story because it shows you the redemptive power of sports.
- [41:00]
Trevor Noah
It really does.
- [41:00]
Joe
Yes.
- [41:02]
Trevor Noah
Best goalkeeper moment for me. I'm gonna pick Japan's goalkeeper, Suzuki. I know they conceded two goals against the Dutch, but I think they were unstoppable. But I think he was phenomenal.
- [41:15]
Joe
They were unstoppable. You can't blame him for either. By the way. He had a Tough time. He's also like another. Not as big as Raul Jimenez, but his story is redemptive because he had a tough, tough Asian Cup. When he first, his debut in a big tournament, he was criticized. He had a tough time and everyone was going like, oh, he shouldn't be playing for Japan and all this. And you know, he, he. And then he had a wrist injury at some point.
- [41:37]
Trevor Noah
Oh, damn.
- [41:37]
Joe
And then he has bounced back. But it was the tough. For me, it was a baptism of fire when he first started in his big tournament for Japan.
- [41:44]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [41:44]
Joe
Many other keepers could have been broken because if the whole. It's a different thing when you're playing for a club because then it's just your club fans on top of you. But when the entire country is questioning your inclusion in the team and you're a black player in Japan.
- [41:58]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:59]
Joe
And you still have the character to come back from that and play the way you played. I think, yeah, I think that's a beautiful story.
- [42:06]
Trevor Noah
It was phenomenal. Best celebration, I mean, for me, easily Quinones from Mexico to, to do that was.
- [42:13]
Joe
Yeah.
- [42:14]
Trevor Noah
The South African celebration from 2010 when they scored against Mexico. He wasn't even there. But not just to do it, to do it perfectly.
- [42:22]
Joe
But now let me ask, do you think was he trolling or was he celebrating? CPU Barara?
- [42:28]
Trevor Noah
No, I think he's trolling. Obviously he's trolling.
- [42:30]
Joe
You don't think he's celebrating because that was an iconic. It was an iconic, iconic celebration.
- [42:34]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, but. But he's doing it against the same team that scored against them.
- [42:38]
Joe
And he also scored the opening goal.
- [42:40]
Trevor Noah
It was there.
- [42:40]
Joe
Yeah.
- [42:40]
Trevor Noah
And I think it's because they, they, they think of the stories and the videos and everyone kept on playing that over and over again and it was this idea that's haunting Mexico. Oh, here comes South Africa again. And remember the goal they scored against you? And it was this whole thing. But what I was impressed by was the fact that for him to practice the dance means he believed.
- [42:58]
Joe
You need to know that you're going to score. Yes, he believed. But he's black. I'll give it to him. I wouldn't call it. You know what? I'll say he remixed. I'll say he remixed. Yes. He just knew it. Yes.
- [43:10]
Trevor Noah
It was in his bones.
- [43:11]
Joe
He has the rhythm.
- [43:11]
Trevor Noah
Come on, that's funny, man.
- [43:13]
Joe
I think you've just said he did it perfectly.
- [43:15]
Trevor Noah
That's hilarious.
- [43:15]
Joe
And it's also funny because no other Mexican player joined him, like, because he didn't have the moves. No, he's black. I'll give it to him. Come on.
- [43:21]
Trevor Noah
Nah, man. He did it. I know this is a. I know this is a World cup podcast, but I feel like part of the World cup, like a storyline that's been adopted into the World cup just because of where we are, has been the New York Knicks. I know this sounds weird, but it felt like one of the World cup games.
- [43:40]
Joe
Yes.
- [43:40]
Trevor Noah
It's like. It just felt like part of the euphoria because you had New York City packed.
- [43:46]
Joe
Packed, packed.
- [43:47]
Trevor Noah
Packed with Moroccan fans. Packed with Brazilian fans.
- [43:50]
Joe
Brazilian fans. Yes.
- [43:50]
Trevor Noah
And packed with New York Knicks fans.
- [43:52]
Joe
The funny thing about that is Brazil
- [43:54]
Trevor Noah
played more three believing that they were
- [43:56]
Joe
gonna win, and all of them very passionate, truly. And all of them dominating every space, truly. They come into. The funny thing about that is I don't come from a basketball country.
- [44:06]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Joe
But the thing is, when you're in New York and New York is winning, it's very infectious.
- [44:10]
Trevor Noah
It's crazy, man. It's beautif.
- [44:11]
Joe
The energy in New York is, as you said, people are friendlier, everyone. It's just. It just feels.
- [44:18]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [44:18]
Joe
And so when Brazil was playing Morocco, which is supposed to be a huge big game, it felt like a cut and razor for the next game later that night.
- [44:27]
Trevor Noah
It actually did.
- [44:28]
Joe
Yes.
- [44:28]
Trevor Noah
It literally did feel like that. Yeah. And. And I think in many ways it also felt like a curtain razor for the specter of.
- [44:36]
Joe
Of.
- [44:37]
Trevor Noah
Of like triumph in the face of everyone saying it was impossible. I know Morocco didn't win.
- [44:42]
Joe
Yes. But the way they played. They played Brazil.
- [44:45]
Trevor Noah
I mean, they. They outplayed Brazil. It didn't feel like, by the way, it was. I was. I was surprised that Vinicius got man of the match.
- [44:53]
Joe
Yes. It should have been Ayub.
- [44:54]
Trevor Noah
I was really surprised.
- [44:55]
Joe
But I think also I feel like when you score a goal normally that.
- [45:00]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. They give you like a little rating boost, don't they?
- [45:03]
Joe
No, I feel like a midfield like Ayubadi will be appreciated by the purists.
- [45:08]
Trevor Noah
Okay.
- [45:08]
Joe
It's.
- [45:09]
Trevor Noah
It's a lot harder to. 16 of 16 passes completed in the attacking third except.
- [45:13]
Joe
Or, you know, take on the way turned under pressure. Purists love that stuff.
- [45:17]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [45:18]
Joe
But when you're doing the K pole, when you're choosing the man of the match, normally it's a popular choice. You have to either have scored or assisted.
- [45:26]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [45:26]
Joe
Because people look at those stats, they don't look at the intangibles that actually.
- [45:31]
Trevor Noah
So that's why, I guess, Brunson then he was always going to win if he scored.
- [45:36]
Joe
Ojiano Nobi, some people argue had better impact or had more impact on the Knicks winning. I mean, especially in game four. I don't know.
- [45:47]
Trevor Noah
I'm not even going to claim to know basketball like that, but it felt like one of the most like, balanced teams.
- [45:53]
Joe
Yes.
- [45:53]
Trevor Noah
And what I mean by that is it felt like you didn't know how the house was going to be built, but every player was bringing a certain amount of bricks.
- [46:00]
Joe
Yes.
- [46:00]
Trevor Noah
Do you know what I mean?
- [46:01]
Joe
But Ojana Nobi, as you say, no,
- [46:03]
Trevor Noah
he was, he was faultless. A lot of the times he didn't miss his shots.
- [46:06]
Joe
Remember in game four, Remember his play? Everyone remembers. Everyone remembers a put back.
- [46:10]
Trevor Noah
Yo.
- [46:10]
Joe
What people don't remember is that when the Aaron Fox got that turnover and rushed through and he was, he went for the layup, who went with him? Who blocked him without actually fouling? It was Ojan Nobi. Yeah.
- [46:23]
Trevor Noah
But then again, like, Hart has had some of the most amazing performances. He like his, his steals, his blocks.
- [46:30]
Joe
But then he also blew the layup in that game. Man. But did you see his face? Yes.
- [46:33]
Trevor Noah
You know, can I tell you something?
- [46:34]
Joe
He had a meltdown.
- [46:35]
Trevor Noah
One thing I.
- [46:36]
Joe
He saw his life flash before he passed.
- [46:37]
Trevor Noah
One thing I, I appreciate in all sports is the feeling a player gets when they, when they, when it looks like they've thrown it all away.
- [46:48]
Joe
Yes.
- [46:49]
Trevor Noah
Hart is one of the smartest.
- [46:51]
Joe
Yes. Yes.
- [46:52]
Trevor Noah
Diligent workers on a team.
- [46:54]
Joe
Yes.
- [46:55]
Trevor Noah
When he missed that layup in Game 5 to take the lead for the, for the Knicks against the spurs, you could see he was going, I've thrown it all away.
- [47:04]
Joe
Do you know what I think has happened these days as well?
- [47:06]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [47:07]
Joe
When a player does that, they see in their minds because players are so online, you think they see. Yeah. They're going to. I'm going to become a meme now.
- [47:14]
Trevor Noah
They see the memes. Yes.
- [47:16]
Joe
It's like, this is it. This is going to. Did you see Larry David's reaction, by the way?
- [47:20]
Trevor Noah
To what?
- [47:21]
Joe
When hat blew the layup, it was like straight out of curb.
- [47:25]
Trevor Noah
I didn't see it.
- [47:25]
Joe
He, like, he almost collapsed. He almost. You should see it. It's so funny. He almost died. Like, Larry David was this close. Like, if you see. Because he expects and then, and then you see him just like people want to hold him up. That's how short he was. But I'm saying that every Knick contributed, even the players off the bench.
- [47:42]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. No, no, no.
- [47:43]
Joe
The Knicks were But for me, Anobi's influence on that game. Remember, Anunoby actually is also the one who threw the inbound pass.
- [47:49]
Trevor Noah
He did.
- [47:50]
Joe
And then he ran all the way the heart. And there at that time in the game, it wasn't the beginning moments. This was towards the end of the game. You've been running back and forth the heart and desire for you to run and get that put back and actually put it back in his. His people were debating him and who is the finals mvp. Because also no be ridiculed. I think he averaged around 22 points. Branson averaged 24. But remember, Branson takes double the shots that are Nobi gets. But I think Branson, when he scores 42 in a decider, you can't look past him.
- [48:22]
Trevor Noah
My man. You know what? I also can't look past New York City itself. You know, people always say as a platitude, oh, New York, the greatest city in the world. New York, crazy. I don't know many cities in the world where you could have a Game 5 of a historic NBA championship, also have a world cup match between Brazil and Morocco. Have all of that happening at the same time as like a Puerto Rican day parade. Oh, yes, have all of that happening. Streets packed, people, you know, some people were just going out for dinner that night as well.
- [48:52]
Joe
New York is. That's always packed.
- [48:53]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. Some people in New York didn't even know all these other things were happening. The city is chaos. People are in the streets cheering, climbing on top of things. Some people are breaking things, you name it. And the next morning, the city's still there, like it never happened. I genuinely was like, yo, nothing New York used to have. I don't know if you were ever around in New York around Hurricane Sandy.
- [49:17]
Joe
Oh, yeah, I missed it.
- [49:19]
Trevor Noah
They had, like, the song that they. That they put on and was like, we are stronger than the storm. And they're like, we're stronger than the storm. And I remember watching that. I was like, no, guys, come on. What do you mean you're stronger than this? Yo, seeing New York. And I was like, okay, no, New York is. New York is like, it's impenetrable. It doesn't matter what it is.
- [49:35]
Joe
No, there were people complaining because there were people complaining, going like, why would FIFA schedule that game? Cause we're going to call it the NBA playoff schedule. We knew. But why would FIFA. Because they were going to such a logistical nightmare for the city hosting like all these. And New York. But also, remember, New York is so resilient. New York is a city that. It bounced back after 9, 11. Many other cities would never bounce back.
- [49:58]
Trevor Noah
New York, Yo, New York. New York has shown like New York. Now. I'm excited for the final because. Because I want to see. I want to see what a New York final is going to be. But we're still. We're still ways away from Australia.
- [50:08]
Joe
But you know what New Jersey people are saying?
- [50:10]
Trevor Noah
What are they saying?
- [50:10]
Joe
It's not happening in New York. I don't know why New York keeps claiming that's New York. It's in Jersey. The MetLife is in Jersey.
- [50:16]
Trevor Noah
I mean, where the game is played and where the fans are totally different.
- [50:20]
Joe
The fans are like, no, we don't want to spend our time.
- [50:22]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. I mean, you know, New Jersey, they're like, people from New Jersey can say what it wants, but it's like, like, what is it? New Jersey is the liminal space of this World Cup. I mean, like, you know what I mean? They can say what they want. But, like, let's ask the fans. I'm willing to bet money if you go to any fan who went to any of these games or is going to any of the games, ask them where they were. I will give you $10 for every person who says they were in New Jersey.
- [50:44]
Joe
No, even people in New Jersey don't want to stay in New Jersey. I had a friend. I had a friend. If we're not careful, we're gonna be
- [50:51]
Trevor Noah
as hated by Wembanyama.
- [50:52]
Joe
But in New Jersey, I had a friend invite me back to. I had a friend, he had a pattern. He told me to. Invited me to New Jersey, and I went like, sorry, but I can't make it. Because if I came to your party in New Jersey, even Ugandans would go like, dude, you'd rather just come back to Uganda? Why would you go to New Jersey? Why would you leave Uganda and go to New Jersey? But the thing I wanted to say about New York and sports fans love this. They love. We love underdog stories, right? We love Morocco making a run. But the thing that New York taught me, and sometimes we take it for granted, is sometimes it's good for the sport, for a big team with a big passionate base with big fans to win.
- [51:29]
Trevor Noah
Because what New York has done sometimes, always.
- [51:31]
Joe
I argue no, but sometimes. You like Greece winning 2004.
- [51:34]
Trevor Noah
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [51:35]
Joe
But I'm saying the publicity and the. And the contagious energy around New York, you know, you know, the celebrities standing up, sometimes the sport needs that. Sometimes, let me put it like this. Sometimes David needs to whoop Goliath. Goliath needs to whip.
- [51:51]
Trevor Noah
Needs to whip David's ass.
- [51:52]
Joe
Yes, sometimes.
- [51:53]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but I argue this wasn't. I don't think that this was. I don't think this was Goliath beating David. I think it's the other way around.
- [51:59]
Joe
Okay.
- [51:59]
Trevor Noah
Let's put it, let's go with this. Sometimes the fans of David, like, they get to such a point, like David's fans get so big that David needs to win the fight. Cuz I argue that the Knicks weren't Goliath in this fight.
- [52:12]
Joe
No, no, no. But when you look at the way basketball.
- [52:14]
Trevor Noah
No, I know what you mean.
- [52:15]
Joe
But like, like market teams and small market teams.
- [52:17]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. For me, the Knicks. The Knicks would like. Yo, people said. People said whoever wins the game between OKC and Spurs is going on to win this thing.
- [52:28]
Joe
Yes, but what I'm saying is when you look at the teams, when they. So when they talk about big market teams.
- [52:32]
Trevor Noah
I hear you, L.A. yeah, but they were, they were like a small team in a big market and now they've become the biggest team in the biggest market.
- [52:40]
Joe
No, because the thing is the amount of hype, because we've seen Okesi win, we've seen Denver Nuggets win, we've seen the Milwaukee Bucks win. We never saw this kind of hype. Because I'll tell you this. Taylor Swift say what you hear about her. She's not going to Wisconsin to watch the Bucks. She's not going to Oklahoma City to watch however good they are. She's not going to watch the Thunder. She's not going to Denver to watch the Nuggets.
- [53:01]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but I mean, to be fair to her, she also like, lived in New York, so.
- [53:04]
Joe
No, but people were making.
- [53:05]
Trevor Noah
People also making it like she just popped out of nowhere. I understand where they were coming from because I can imagine if you were a Knicks fan, even if you were a celebrity.
- [53:11]
Joe
Yes.
- [53:12]
Trevor Noah
Like if you were a celebrity who is below Taylor Swift, which is almost all celebrities and you couldn't get into that game. And then you see Taylor Swift dancing up there with her friends and you're like, which other games? Where was she?
- [53:23]
Joe
Yes. When the Knicks were blowing. Yes, yes, yes.
- [53:26]
Trevor Noah
You know what I mean? Year after year, where was. I can see why people were angry, but at least.
- [53:29]
Joe
No, no, but for me, it's not just her. Timothy Charaman, currently the biggest movie star in the world.
- [53:33]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, but Timothy. Yo, yo, yo.
- [53:35]
Joe
No, no, I mean, he's a fan of the Knicks.
- [53:36]
Trevor Noah
Yo, fan is an understatement.
- [53:38]
Joe
Yo, but I'm saying a small market team like OKC doesn't have a Timothy Sharman. Okay.
- [53:42]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [53:42]
Joe
Small market team like Denver Nuggets don't have Timothy. So Timothy Charman helps the sport go from the back pages to pop culture.
- [53:50]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, that's true.
- [53:51]
Joe
Taylor Swift, all those.
- [53:52]
Trevor Noah
Okay, I see what you're saying then you're saying it's, it's good for the to have moments that pop it into pop. I argue that's what Team USA did. So for me, the, the biggest reason I was happy for Team USA to win is because the stadium had Tom Cruise, David Beckham, Leonardo DiCaprio, Justin Bieber, Hailey Bieber, I show speed, Draymond Green, you like. Because of that, I was happy for America, for Americans, for the sport, for the global spectacle of it all. So that it also didn't become like a sideshow.
- [54:23]
Joe
Yes.
- [54:23]
Trevor Noah
I didn't want people to come and be like, is this the soccer you guys are talking about? This thing is real and we have a real team and we have a real moment. That's what I enjoyed about it.
- [54:32]
Joe
So for me, that's why I say you always need in a way the big. And I know sports fans don't like it, but it's almost like if you want sport to grow and if you want sport to transcend sports because you know, a sport doesn't grow, it's just the die hard fans.
- [54:46]
Trevor Noah
Right, right, right.
- [54:47]
Joe
If you want it to go mainstream, you want it to cross over from the back pages to tmz, you want to see us, you want to see Pulisic and all those guys being like harassed by the TMZ reporter.
- [54:59]
Trevor Noah
You know what I'm just thinking of now? Essentially this is what you're saying. In order for David's victory to mean something over Goliath, we need Goliath to be Goliath.
- [55:10]
Joe
Yes.
- [55:10]
Trevor Noah
Fundamentally, that's what you're saying. Because if Goliath doesn't become Goliath, then David just hits some random dude with a stone in the middle of his
- [55:17]
Joe
head and it's not a story.
- [55:18]
Trevor Noah
So we need Goliath to be made so that Davids so that the Davids can fell them.
- [55:23]
Joe
I like how you went.
- [55:24]
Trevor Noah
It's the same with Brazil. You don't have that.
- [55:26]
Joe
If David, If David hits some random dude.
- [55:28]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, if David just hit some random with a stone, it's like, all right, you hear what David did.
- [55:31]
Joe
It wouldn't be a proverb.
- [55:32]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, he hit another guy with a Stone, man, that guy needs to put that slingshot away, man.
- [55:36]
Joe
He just. Yes, he's.
- [55:37]
Trevor Noah
He's a. He's nothing. Licensed.
- [55:39]
Joe
He needs to hit Goliath.
- [55:40]
Trevor Noah
Yeah. For Goliath to be a thing, Goliath has to be Goliath.
- [55:44]
Joe
You know what I mean?
- [55:44]
Trevor Noah
The reigning champion of the world. Which games are you most excited for this week?
- [55:48]
Joe
I'm excited for the one we're going to cover, first of all, tomorrow. The one we're going to cover. France. Senegal.
- [55:54]
Trevor Noah
Yeah.
- [55:55]
Joe
I love that game.
- [55:56]
Trevor Noah
That's big.
- [55:56]
Joe
That game has a history. 2002 World Cup.
- [55:59]
Trevor Noah
That's big.
- [56:00]
Joe
Senegal shocks France and France gets. France had won the World cup in 1998. Senegal shocks them. And that set the tone because France didn't make it out of the group, even with Zidane. Yes, an injured Zidane, but it still didn't make it out. And that, by the way, kickstarted this trend where whichever team had won the World cup before didn't make it to the next World Cup. So France didn't make it to the next World Cup. And so, for me, this game has lots of history. It has lots of colonial history as well, because Senegal and France, of course, they have their colonial ties, and I think Senegal is a good team. I think Senegal is good enough with Sadio Mani and all that. He's supporting cast. They're such a good team that they will give France a game because France are the favorites to win the World Cup. But this is going to be their first huge, huge test because they lost their last game against Ivory cost, which
- [56:46]
Trevor Noah
was a massive moment.
- [56:47]
Joe
Yes. Which also had, like, the colonial history.
- [56:49]
Trevor Noah
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Massive moment.
- [56:50]
Joe
So for me, this is going to be a good test of where France are.
- [56:55]
Trevor Noah
I don't want to call them scandals, but the stories around the game, you know, there's been, like, a few of them. One, we've seen all of these press conferences where reporters are trying to speak to the players in Spanish.
- [57:05]
Joe
Yes, yes.
- [57:05]
Trevor Noah
The players are trying to respond in Spanish. And then the FIFA representatives are saying, no, you only speak in English. But the irony of it is they're saying you can only speak in English because that's the only language that can be translated from. So it seems like they just didn't account for the fact that many of the players only speak Spanish.
- [57:22]
Joe
Yes.
- [57:22]
Trevor Noah
It's one of the most spoken languages in football specifically.
- [57:25]
Joe
But I think FIFA likes encouraging English as the standard language because, yeah, there's
- [57:30]
Trevor Noah
a difference between encouraging and dictating.
- [57:32]
Joe
But what's FIFA, if not a dictatorship. FIFA is not a democracy, I'll tell you that. FIFA is not a democracy. They've been, I think FIFA, look, the
- [57:42]
Trevor Noah
other thing has been like, the. All the players, the Senegalese fans, like, do you think it'll affect the team, them not having their fans there?
- [57:50]
Joe
I think you need your fans. But also think when you're playing at a World cup, if you need extra motivation, then you shouldn't be at the World Cup. Just being at the World cup, it's almost like. It's almost like asking someone, should your wedding have, like, cheerleaders? No. If you're getting married, you should want to get married. If you want extras to get married, then maybe you shouldn't be getting married.
- [58:09]
Trevor Noah
No, no, no, bro. If none of your family come to your wedding, you might start to doubt whether or not you should be having that wedding. There's just going to be moments.
- [58:15]
Joe
You're leaving your family, there's just going
- [58:17]
Trevor Noah
to be moments when you're standing up there and then everyone cheers for your bride and then nobody cheers for you and you're going to be like, should I be here? Do I deserve to be here at this moment?
- [58:26]
Joe
You always need your supporters.
- [58:27]
Trevor Noah
But look at, look at the Scottish fans.
- [58:29]
Joe
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [58:30]
Trevor Noah
They willed the ball into the net in that game. They like, they, like, sucked it in.
- [58:34]
Joe
They turn every city they go to, even Japan.
- [58:37]
Trevor Noah
The Japanese fans, I think, are part of the reason that, like, they, they didn't get tense against the Netherlands. They carried on singing, they carried on drumming away. I think it's. It's part of the reason. As, as always, Joe, this has been a pleasure, my friend.
- [58:49]
Joe
Oh, man. Anytime we have talk soccer, you know me, we could talk for hours, by the way.
- [58:53]
Trevor Noah
And we will talk. We have many more hours coming. We have many more. But let's save it. Let's save it for then. For now. For now, my friend. Friend. It's full time. I'll see you. I'll see you at the next one.
- [59:03]
Joe
No, it's always fun. It's always a pleasure. This was fun.
- [59:07]
Trevor Noah
Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Verizon. They've given their customers unmatched access to the FIFA World Cup 2026, including thousands of free tickets. People meet and greets with soccer legends and the once in a lifetime opportunity to watch a portion of the FIFA World cup from the pitch. From the pitch. All just for being a Verizon customer. If you're not with Verizon, no sweats. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their amazing offers for new customers. What now with Trevor Noah is produced by DayZero Productions in partnership with SiriusXM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of what Now.
- [60:19]
Joe
Sam.