WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: Week Two

Summary

What Now? with Trevor Noah WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: Week Two Release Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this World Cup Bonus Episode, Trevor Noah and his guest (referred to as "B", likely a close friend and regular football co-host) dive into the excitement, drama, and social impact of week two of the 2026 FIFA World Cup. Their candid conversation explores the tournament’s ability to transcend politics, reshape perceptions of nations, unite fans, and create unexpected narratives both on and off the pitch. The episode is a rich, playful, and deeply analytical celebration of football culture—balancing fan humor, sharp wit, and meaningful cultural discussion.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The World Cup’s Unique Energy and Social Power (00:26–05:58)

• Analogy to New Year's Eve: Trevor compares the World Cup’s pre-tournament skepticism and sudden fever to how people treat New Year’s Eve—dismissive first, but fully engaged when the real moment arrives.
  • Quote [Trevor, 01:16]: “The World Cup is a lot like New Year's Eve...Everyone says they don't care, but the minute it starts, all you're left with is joy and regret.”
• Transformation of Host Perceptions: The hosts note how negative narratives around hosts (South Africa 2010, Russia, Brazil, Qatar) always shift once the games begin—scandals are forgotten; focus shifts to football.
  • Quote [Trevor, 02:09]: “Every single World Cup starts with a scandal or multiple scandals. And by week two, people can only talk about the World Cup.”
• The US as Host: The U.S. is no exception—despite criticisms, the country is being positively reevaluated by visiting fans.
  • Notable moment: The story of “Freddie,” a German fan whose joy and exposure to American hospitality went viral, even earning him a flight rescue and a potential White House invite.
  • Quote [Trevor, 05:58]: “That’s when I was like, okay, this is power. When...an airline in America is actually trying to help a customer.”

2. Sportswashing vs. People-to-People Diplomacy (07:16–14:50)

• Definition and Critique: The panel explores the concept of “sportswashing”—hosting to launder a country’s reputation—citing Russia, Qatar, and the US, with an eye on future hosts like Morocco, Spain, Saudi Arabia, and even jokes about North Korea.
• Counterpoint – Human Connections: Trevor argues the fan mingling, cultural exchange, and day-to-day experiences are as important as governmental narratives. Foreigners experiencing “real” America; Americans experiencing Norwegian chants; fan friendships and love stories that break stereotypes.
  • Quote [Trevor, 08:15]: “For the first time in my life, I’ve seen Team USA people trying to come up with actual chants for their team.”
• Qatar 2022 Example: How Qataris realized not all foreigners are hooligans, and fans realized not all Qataris match state stereotypes—direct people-to-people diplomacy.

3. Small Nations, Big Stories (13:27–14:50)

• Smaller nations like Cape Verde, Curacao, and Haiti enjoying Cinderella moments, gaining points, and even millions of social media followers for their players.
  • Quote [Trevor, 14:07]: “Kep Vad...their goalkeeper going from a few hundred followers to 9.4 million shows the power of the World Cup.”

4. Scandal and Disappointment – Turkey’s Downfall (15:38–24:12)

• Turkey’s Collapse: Despite huge expectations, Turkey exits Week Two with zero goals—an “reflecting pool” analogy is used for failed hype.
  • Quote [B, 19:46]: “It was released to much fanfare...then much sooner than people predicted, the paint started peeling off...That’s what happened with Turkey.”
• Comparison to other underperformers: Tunisia’s coach sacked, but Turkey’s expectations and footballing culture make their disappointment greater.

5. Competition Structure & Underdogs (23:44–41:32)

• No Easy Matches: Every team earns its spot; upsets abound, especially with expanded formats.
• Rule Controversy: Debates over the new red card rule for players covering their mouths—should it really be an immediate sending off or just a yellow?
  • Quote [Trevor, 26:18]: “Athletes all over the world have gotten very comfortable doing this...it’s instinctive. Red card? I think it should be a yellow...The game is disrupted so much by this decision.”
• Format Changes: Head-to-head now breaks group ties instead of goal difference, making third matches less meaningful for some teams.
  • Quote [B, 41:05]: “It sucks because now it means the third game means nothing...Teams know their outcome before it even starts.”

6. Shifting World Cup Narratives – End of “David vs. Goliath”? (33:40–40:19)

• Challenging Patronizing Tropes: African and “smaller” nations are no longer “Davids”—their squads are as physically and technically prepared as traditional powers.
  • Quote [Trevor, 34:33]: “David now has multiple players from Europe...David’s been in the gym taking steroids, taking creatine, doing his thing...”
• Legacy Teams Coasting: Countries riding on past glory (Italy, Germany, England) called out for “legacy admissions”—their former wins don’t mean much for current squads.
  • Quote [B, 39:14]: “It’s the legacy admission. You know when they go, ‘oh, your father was an alumnus at this college...’ Just because your dad went doesn’t mean you deserve to be here.”

7. Goalkeepers’ World Cup, Memorable Performances (41:53–43:06)

• Goalkeepers Shine: Mexican keeper’s double save against Czechia dubbed the “save of the tournament.”
  • Quote [Trevor, 42:07]: “This has been the World Cup of goalkeepers...No, goalkeepers are looking good in this World Cup.”

8. Tactical Trends, Team Analysis, and What’s Next (43:09–52:23)

• Sweden’s and Netherlands’ Tactics: Detailed X's and O's discussion—debating Sweden’s “spiky” inconsistency, Netherlands’ tactical changes, and the resurgence of strong, physical strikers (Brobbey, Haaland, Lukaku) as the game cycles back to valuing physical “battering rams.”
  • Quote [Trevor, 46:07]: “The game became about movement and passing...But now because of that, one of the only ways you can get a goal is to whip the ball in behind or create running chaos.”
• Game Preparation: Debate about impact subs versus starting pacey wingers like Elanga.
  • Quote [Trevor, 49:45]: “Pace does from the very get go...When you’re playing against a player who you know in a full race can beat you...it’s like the worst.”

9. Emotional Stories and Legacy Players (50:49–57:51)

• Egypt’s Coach Hossam Hassan: His journey from star player (who never made a World Cup as a player) to coaching at the tournament and mentoring new Egyptian icons like Mo Salah.
  • Quote [B, 52:00]: “For me, it’s seeing the Egyptian coach on the bench, Hossam Hassan...He never got a chance to go to the World Cup. Now he’s at the World Cup, he’s the coach...”
• Cristiano Ronaldo Conundrum: The awkwardness of late-career icons—admiration for CR7’s human side vs. the toxicity of fans insisting he must always be central and the burden it puts on teammates, some of whom receive abuse and even death wishes online for not “serving” Ronaldo.
  • Quote [B, 53:08]: “Cristiano Ronaldo, the competitor...It’s almost like if someone has an alter ego. The alter ego takes over when he’s actually—most times—on the pitch.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On World Cup Fever [Trevor, 01:16]:

  • “The World Cup is a lot like New Year's Eve...The day the clock strikes, you start getting the texts, ‘Where’s the party at?’...and all you’re left with is joy and regret.”

• On the “Sportswashing” Debate [B, 13:06]:

  • “FIFA’s argument always is: football can help bring a country into the international fold...just the interaction alone has benefits to opening up.”

• Turkey as the “Reflecting Pool” [Trevor, 19:41]:

  • “Turkey is basically the reflecting pool of national teams right now…tons of money was pumped into it…and it fell apart in a comically short amount of time.”

• Red Card Rule Debate [Trevor, 26:18]:

  • “You get taught to put your hand in front of your mouth...now it’s a new rule...Red card? I think it should be a yellow...The game is disrupted so much by this decision.”

• On the End of ‘David vs. Goliath’ [Trevor, 34:33 and 35:13]:

  • “David now has multiple players from Europe...”
  • “We’ve outgrown that metaphor...It should be: is Goliath still what he’s hyped up to be?”

• Legacy Team Admission [B, 39:14]:

  • “It’s the legacy admission…just because your dad went to the school doesn’t mean you deserve to be here.”

• Goalkeepers Shine [Trevor, 42:07]:

  • “This has been the World Cup of goalkeepers…No, goalkeepers are looking good in this World Cup.”

• On CR7 and Toxic Fans [B, 55:11]:

  • “They’re going to Neves’s Instagram saying, ‘It should’ve been you instead of Jota.’”
  • Trevor: “That’s the downside of football.”

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Important Timestamps

• [01:16] World Cup as New Year's Eve analogy
• [05:58] The Freddie fan phenomenon, American hospitality
• [07:27] Sportswashing vs. real-world impact
• [08:15] America learning to chant like Europeans, cross-fan culture
• [13:06] FIFA’s rationale for “bringing nations in”
• [14:07] Small nations making global headlines (Cape Verde's goalkeeper)
• [19:41] The "reflecting pool" analogy for Turkey’s failure
• [26:18] Major red card rule debate on hand-covering mouths
• [33:40–35:13] Davids become Goliaths; time to change football narratives
• [39:14] “Legacy admission” critique of big football nations
• [41:53–43:06] Goalkeepers' heroics remembered
• [50:49–52:23] Hossam Hassan’s story and significance for Egypt
• [53:08–57:51] The difficult legacy of Cristiano Ronaldo; social media abuse of teammates

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Looking Forward

• Sweden’s Last Game: Tactics, player choices, and how they’ll respond under pressure.
• Egypt’s Knockout Hopes: Sentiment for legend Hossam Hassan’s journey.
• Portugal’s Pressure: Can the squad balance Ronaldo’s presence, toxic fan culture, and actual team needs?
• Pacing Yourself: Trevor and his guest remind fans this is the longest, most packed World Cup—enjoy the ride and pace your emotions.

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Tone and Vibe

• Candid, humorous, banter-heavy while displaying deep, nuanced insight
• Radically honest, sometimes irreverent, but always affectionate toward the game and its fans
• Both playful (making fun of national stereotypes, poking at each other’s opinions) and serious (calling out toxic fandom, systemic issues, and the positive power of football)

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For full context, listen between the timestamps to catch the memorable moments and in-depth analyses that make “What Now? with Trevor Noah” a World Cup must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is proudly sponsored by Mazda Consumer Reports safest new car brand. Mazda stands for more of what matters most to you. Visit mazdausa.com to learn more. This is what now with Trevor Noah. All right, well, welcome to week two of the World Cup.

[B]

Yeah. I can't believe. Because it feels like one, We've watched so much football, it feels like a week four. But then again, time rushes when you're having fun. So it doesn't feel like week two yet. It's like a we. I know it sounds like a weird contradiction, but it feels like we've watched four weeks worth of football, but then it doesn't feel like we've reached week two yet.

[A]

I think it feels like that because, yes, we've watched probably more games per capita than ever in our lives, but because we haven't moved in the group stages. Yes, it doesn't feel like the tournament has moved in a good way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it feels like it's still exciting. It feels like it's still new. It feels like it's. But. But, you know, before we even get into the results, I. I noticed something about the World cup and I don't know if you'll agree with this or disagree.

[B]

Okay, probably disagree, but on principle, but okay.

[A]

The World cup is a lot like New Year's Eve, okay? Everyone talks trash about it in the build up. Everyone says they don't care, everyone says they don't. They're not gonna make plans, they're not gonna participate. Ask somebody what their plans are for New Year's Eve, they'll be like, ah, is that even a thing anymore? New Year's Eve, I'll probably just sleep. I don't even care what's happening. I'm not into it. The day the clock strikes 12 and it's the 31st now, then you start getting the texts, hey, what's happening? Have you heard of anything? Are you going anywhere?

[B]

Where's the party at?

[A]

Maybe we should go to a party. And then when it gets close to 12, it's on. And once it's on, all you're left with is joy and regret. I feel like the World cup does that. No, because I, I was thinking about this. Every single World cup starts with the

[B]

scandal or multiple scandals.

[A]

And by week two, people can only talk about the World Cup. So go South Africa. 2010. Everybody was saying, can this country host a World Cup? Is Africa ready? There's too much crime in South Africa. They don't have the infrastructure. It's going to be a bad World Cup. It's not going to go. World cup started week two. All we knew was football actually.

[B]

The moment Shabala scored that goal, finished, everything shifted. Yes. Finished.

[A]

Qatar.

[B]

Oh, before that, Russia.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Russia. Russia was before that. People were like, oh, Brazil. They were like, oh, no, the infrastructure things are not going to work. You name it. Russia. People like, oh, the visas are going to be a disaster. Russia's not going to let people in.

[B]

Russia even.

[A]

Should Russia even be hosting a yo. World cup came. People were just like, it's World cup time. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get back to that later.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Qatar was the same US week two. I don't know about you, maybe it's just my feed. Everything is World cup now.

[B]

No, I'll say this, and that's, I think the beauty and also the cast in a funny way of the World cup because that's what gives FIFA so much power and so much leverage. They are in control or they're the custodians of this thing that's so powerful. Yeah. That can shift narratives. So the World cup, when you talk about Qatar, like before it happened, some people were even going to boycott it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean the English media, English media was essentially boycott Qatar.

[B]

But then the moment, the moment the ball is kicked, you, you know what

[A]

it is actually before the ball is kicked. Once people see David Beckham.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They change, they change all their geopolitical views.

[B]

Yes. But it's, it's funny that you think

[A]

it's like any party, you can say what you want about a party if David Beckham walks in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, you know, all of a sudden the party's change. Let's stand up. Yes. No, but like as I was saying, it's the great power of this beautiful game. And FIFA, fun enough, has done so much to disfigure the face of the beautiful game. But because the game is so popular and once it starts, everything is out of the window. So the US people are going about everything that's wrong with the US Then the moment the game started. Now everyone's just talking about the games. People are discovering different sides of America. Cause they're going to, they're getting to meet real Americans as opposed to Americans being represented by their government.

[A]

Can I, can I say that's something that has truly made me realize how powerful the World cup is. I've always known that the World cup has the power to introduce, you know, people from all over the world to a nation that they may have had a one sided Opinion of or like a one dimensional opinion of, rather. I didn't think the same would hold true for America. And yet, if you've been online, the fan experiences of the World cup and the fan experiences of America, funny enough, there's the German guy, Freddie, I think his name is.

[B]

Oh. Who is going around. Yes.

[A]

He's become like the most adored fan in America. Now. Freddie is a German guy who's just in America who's just having a great time, just loving everything about America. Meeting people, shocked at how friendly, discovering how big the portions are, enjoying like.

[B]

Like all the things we love about

[A]

giant trucks, giant cars, giant worlds, giant supermarkets. He's gotten so popular. I think he got an invite to the White House. They. He was on a flight that was delayed and he was gonna miss a game. And then airlines just stepped in and they were like, no, Freddie, we got you. We're gonna get you on another flight.

[B]

We're gonna.

[A]

That's when I was like, okay, this is power. When. When an airline in America is actually

[B]

trying to help people, to help a customer. Yes. No, but also I agree with you because America, unlike other countries, has been overexposed. We watch it in pop culture, watch it in movies, we watch music videos.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you would think there would be nothing to discover. Qatar, you've never heard anything about it. So when the World cup goes there, there's a chance to discover a side of Qatar that you haven't seen before. But America, I didn't think that for America. Familiar with America.

[A]

I honestly didn't think that for America.

[B]

Yes. Like the people in Rollins Cancers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are like, funny, weird, meet cute. Y with Algeria and then this romance that has gone under. No, no, no, no.

[A]

You think Scottish fans have drunk Boston dry.

[B]

God, yes. You never thought that would happen? You never thought Boston would go like.

[A]

I didn't think it was possible Boston

[B]

would go like, there's not enough alcohol in Boston.

[A]

I genuinely didn't think it was possible.

[B]

The buzzing. No. But I think also, like, if you combine Scottish people with Irish people because the Irish people in Boston want bars dry. And then they. No, it's. It's been beautiful. It's. It's why normally they go like, oh, you can use the World cup to sports wash or sports launder your image. And that's why I think.

[A]

Okay, but this is. Okay, let's, let's. So let's get into this. Is it sports washing or. Or rather let's, let's. Let's ask the question this week because people will say The World cup is sports washing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You use a major world tournament to, you know. Yeah. To, to, to, to lighten or brighten the image of your country in the world, despite what's going on. But then there's a part of me that goes, is it sports washing or is it, Is it maybe doing. Not the opposite, necessarily, but like those Americans who are experiencing, or rather those Europeans and those Africans and those, you know, South Americans and the very few Africans. You're not wrong. You're not wrong, actually. Yeah. Way more Europeans. But they are experiencing America in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise. And I think America is also experiencing them in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise. Like the effect that the Norwegian fans have had on Americans. For the first time in my life, I've seen Team USA people trying to come up with actual chants for their team.

[B]

Yes. Apart from we. We shall win.

[A]

I believe that we shall win.

[B]

They see the choreography.

[A]

I believe that. Yes, that is terrible.

[B]

Yes. They see the choreography.

[A]

That's objectively terrible or just usa, usa. That's fine for, like, three minutes.

[B]

Yes. You can't chant it for an entire game.

[A]

90 minutes.

[B]

Defense.

[A]

Come on, defense.

[B]

You need a few.

[A]

Come on, come on, come on. I still say if you have to tell the team what their job is, to remind them. Come on. Like football fans, you just get to sing and, like, reminisce about the beauty of your team and its legacy. You get to sing joyous songs. Meanwhile, in American sports, you have to, like, literally tell the people what to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is the part where you defend. This is the part where you defend. This is the part where you defend. You know what I mean?

[B]

You make it seem like, what are you doing? You make it seem like American athletes are like goldfishes. They're memories.

[A]

I'm saying the chants.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes, the chants are terrible.

[B]

No, like the. Oh, the choreography.

[A]

Yeah. So I understand. Yes. I'm not, I'm not saying the sports washing isn't a thing, but I, I, I'm often torn because we live in a world where people say we as humans need to spend more time getting to know each other so that we form opinions of each other and places and ideas. Let's, let's become less rigid. And then when we have events that do that, we then say the events shouldn't happen.

[B]

Because I think it's because.

[A]

Because when else would it happen?

[B]

No, I think it's when else would,

[A]

when else would thousands of Norwegians be influencing Americans? When else would thousands of Scottish people be influencing. Look at, look at. And not just in America. Look at the love, the new romance between Korea and Mexico. Have you seen the Korean and Mexican fans?

[B]

Beautiful. Yes, that's beautiful. I would say there are going to

[A]

be so many Korean Mexican babies born next year.

[B]

Funny that you talk about the impact, the external impact on the insiders and then the insider impact on the outsiders. Because when we went to Qatar, remember having a conversation with one of the top guys in the organizing committee, and he told us Qatar actually didn't want the World Cup. The people of Qatar didn't want the World cup because they thought all these foreigners who are coming in, they had only seen videos of English hooligans.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[B]

And they went, animals are coming into Qatar. They're going to rape our women. They're going to vandalize are buildings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then people came over. And then I remember he told me distinctively that he remembered the turning point was when Qataris were turning up and actually giving funds water. Because Qataris realized, oh, not all foreigners are English hooligans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then foreigners also realized not all Qataris think the same as their government.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't think LGBTQ people should be executed. They don't think all these things that we were told or they don't think that immigrants should be like. So that's very interesting. But the reason I think people talk about sportswashing is when you look at the countries that normally vie to host the World cup, there are countries in need of a reputational cleanup. So, for example, Russia that just invaded Crimea when they got the World Cup.

[A]

Yeah, but they. I'm not saying that's not true, but they had to bid for the World cup long before they invaded Crimea.

[B]

But I'm saying when the World cup came, it helped their image. They went from all Russia, not a candidate for neighbor of the yard, to all Russia. It's possible they're not as cold as they seem. I'll say, look at Qatar. Okay, so now it was Russia, Qatar, the US Then it's going to be Morocco, Spain, and there's going to be Saud Arabia. And I think logically the next stop should be North Korea, man.

[A]

And the North Korean World cup would be something.

[B]

We'd be like, oh, did you see? By the way, Was right all along,

[A]

by the way, did you see? There was. There was a piece that I was reading or I saw something online. It's funny you brought up North Korea. Apparently North Korea has experienced like a boom over the Past few years, like a major. And please don't get me wrong, this is relative to itself because North Korea is still like extremely underdeveloped. There's a lot of poverty in it, but apparently they've really been doing well. Ironically, because of the wars that are being fought, people forget how many, how much, how much money they make from arms.

[B]

Yes, yeah, yes. And also.

[A]

And from. Yeah, but apparently. So you never know. Maybe North Korea could be.

[B]

But okay, but you know, I saw this video because you're talking about North Korea. I saw this video that was showing how North Korea has changed, has developed, and they're just using a parking lot and you could see the number of cars.

[A]

Yeah, the technology.

[B]

Yes, the technology.

[A]

No, the technology. Like, but, but this is what I mean. As much as people say you should keep a state a pariah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

To punish them for their actions, I sometimes wonder if the opposite isn't more true. Can you keep a state a pariah if you bring them into the fold?

[B]

That's FIFA's argument. FIFA's argument always is you can bring. The football can help bring a country into the international fold.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So like when outsiders go to Qatar. Qatar, just by that interaction alone, it's almost like, you know, when you hear about Europeans going and meeting these uncontacted tribes in the Amazon, just the interaction alone has like benefits to opening up the way they contacted us. Yeah.

[A]

I don't think you can start diplomacy without diplomats.

[B]

That's a very good. Yeah, that's Shifa's argument. Every time when we take football to these places, those places are always almost like it's an eye opening moment for them. Yeah.

[A]

But even, not even taking it to the places. Look what the World cup has done. How many people in the world knew Cape Verde was even a thing before the World Cup? How many people knew Curacao was even a thing? Speaking to you now, Curacao has a point. They have a point at the World cup. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And they got that point against Ecuador, a team that did extremely well in the qualifying.

[B]

Golden generation as well of Ecuador. For like a heartbeat there they were toe to toe with Germany.

[A]

And for them it was a win.

[B]

No, no, it was a win. But then again, as you see Kep Vad, their goalkeeper going from what, a few hundred followers to 9.4 million 11. It shows, yeah, it shows that power of the World Cup. But again, man, you know, I can see what the activists are talking about because the government will always use. Because anytime you give something as powerful as the World cup to a power hungry maniac. They always abuse it. But as you're saying, also, once, once it brings people together. Because if you look at the people, people who love the beautiful game, or in the case of America, the people who didn't love but now have fallen in love because they're seeing Norwegians choreographing this Viking rowing thing or they're seeing like Scottish people just having.

[A]

Yeah, man, I think, I think, I think it's. Look, I, I think both arguments have merit, but I think we shouldn't take for granted the lasting legacy and the impact this will leave of just bringing humans together. We live in a world where so many people form their opinions based on, you know, maybe clicking digital. Yeah, Digital information. How many people can say their opinions of others are formed by an actual experience? That's all I'm saying. You know, so I'm, I'm loving that part of it. Like, I actually love how for the World cup, the scandals go away from geopolitics and they just go to the pitch, you know, because now, like, the scandals are all on the pitch. I would say the biggest scandal at the World cup now over this past week, Turkey. The Turkish team.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Came in. If you think about it like the Turkish team came into this World Cup.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't know if you saw their send off. Right. They got one of the biggest send offs I've ever seen a country give

[B]

their given Martians in one of the most expensive, exclusive, like, seaside resorts, my friend. Every player for just qualifying, my friend. Yes.

[A]

Because how many years has it been since Turkey was.

[B]

Yeah, it's been like, I think 26 years or somewhere. There been a long time. I think the last time. Wait, was it 2002 when they made it to the semifinal?

[A]

For a very, very long time, they were driven out of the city with the most beautiful. It looked like they were going to like, like a, like a war, but a good war in a way.

[B]

But that's what the World cup feels like.

[A]

Yeah. They would.

[B]

The World cup, to go back to your point, the World cup is the only time I feel. And the Olympics, but especially at the World cup is the only time you're allowed to be xenophobic. Well, or nationalistic. Maybe. Not xenophobic. No, nationalistic.

[A]

Nationalistic, yes.

[B]

You're supposed to. Where you go like, yeah, I'm from Curacao and I'm going to shit talk Germany. We hate the Germans. And everyone goes like, yeah, we agree, we hate the Germans. It's the only time you're allowed to be patriotically proud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Without it having, like, negative undertones.

[A]

It's the one time Germans can fly their flag.

[B]

Oh, yes. Proudly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Proudly. Yes.

[A]

This is the one time Germans can be like, and now am I allowed to bring out my flag for this moment? Yeah.

[B]

And the English. And the English are like, yes, of course.

[A]

And the English are like, yeah, come on, come on. The French are like, yeah, yeah, we can do it just for this one.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's probably why Germany always does well in the World cup, because the longer they get to be in a World cup, the longer Germans get to fly their flags. And they're just there like, yeah. This is so much fun. We're having a great time.

[B]

We get to do this once every four years.

[A]

July 20th. Put it away. Okay. We'll see you in four years. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. Well, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor Mazda for today's episode. Safety has a new leader. You know what I've realized? Most people don't actually think about safety when everything's going right. Yeah. You only notice it afterwards at the end of a long drive when you still feel relaxed, when traffic gets chaotic, but you never feel overwhelmed when something unexpected happens and the car just feels composed. And I think that's what's interesting about Mazda's approach. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand. It starts with their approach. Mazda believes real safety begins with helping to protect you before problems even start. So you can feel more confident on every single drive. And I like that philosophy because good design shouldn't interrupt the experience. It should support it quietly. Mazda has more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick plus awards than any other brand as of April 2026. You don't believe me? Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. Do it and do it now.

[B]

No Takiye, you are your about y

[A]

that that you look at it team comes in that has one of the highest team values per capita. As in like the value of the players, where they play their football, how they seen in the world, how they

[B]

youngest how they're rated. Two of the brightest young talents in world football in can yield is and

[A]

yeah ad and Canan Yildes and also

[B]

the mix of experience with Hakan Charanoglu Chalanoglu. Yes.

[A]

And you think of a team like that. Everyone expected everyone also everyone was like, oh, their group is easy.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

So. So every pundit expected them to Cakewalk the thing instead. They are now confidently out of the

[B]

World cup without a goal. Kurasawa has done better than them.

[A]

That's wild, man.

[B]

Haiti is doing better than them. Cape Vad is doing better than them. The thing is.

[A]

That's wild. You do realize. You do realize. Like, if you think about, like, their story. I was thinking about. I was like. Turkey is basically the reflecting pool of national teams right now.

[B]

The reflecting pool. The DC Reflecting pool.

[A]

Yeah, the DC Reflecting pool.

[B]

Okay. Explain this. Elaborate.

[A]

It was released to much fanfare. There was a massive overhaul.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Tons of money was pumped into it. They made this grand announcement with extreme expectations and much sooner than people predicted, the paint started peeling off.

[B]

Things fell apart. Yes.

[A]

And it fell apart. And it became one of the biggest disasters we've ever seen in, like, a space that really no one.

[B]

The reflecting pool. Yes.

[A]

It would have been one thing if they said, oh, the reflecting pool. After, like, two years. It happened in a comically short amount of time. That's what happened with Turkey.

[B]

It would be great if also Turkey had Abraham Lincoln just looking on, very disappointed. Just judging from his seat. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. No, the thing is, I'll say this about Turkey, so I've had a chance, and probably you have, too. I've had a chance to visit Turkey, to visit Istanbul three times.

[A]

You have?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Why is your hair still like this?

[B]

They went like, we are miracle workers. But come on, we can't. You can only do so much. Even the Turkish doctors went within the realm.

[A]

It has to be within the realms of, like, science.

[B]

Yeah. We don't. We don't make wonders. Yeah. No, but the thing is, I've had a chance to visit Istanbul three times on a cruise, by the way. And every time I visit Istanbul, I feel it's like the Brazil of Europe. The fans breathe live and sleep football. They have the three biggest clubs and Besiktas and the fans. They're very passionate people. Fiercely passionate. So I feel for them because this is very devastating. This is traumatic for them. They came in, they thought they would win. They got embarrassed. And if you also had, like. We grew up watching European football. If you've had a chance to watch, like, those Turkish games.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When they say an English team, oh, my God, I'm a man United.

[A]

It's massive.

[B]

Visiting Garatasara, the Al Samien Stadium, and it's basically, welcome to hell. That's what they call it. And when you would watch, like, teams go to the. You know, where Fenerbach used to play, it was called the Sakura Sarokoguru. Those stadiums really feel like. I wouldn't even know how to describe them because an American wouldn't get it. They feel like you've entered. You know, when they say the fan is the 12th man, it genuinely feels. It's like Anfield but with flares.

[A]

But why didn't that translate into the World Cup?

[B]

No, so they have. And this is why. This is why.

[A]

Zero goals.

[B]

No. So this is why I feel for them. Because the 2002 team was their golden generation before this golden generation. And if you remember that team, they had Hakan Shuka in front, they had Hassan Saskomit Dabala, they had like two guys and Emery.

[A]

And my question to you is, what happened now?

[B]

So when they came in, they thought. I think they were shocked by their. Also they ended up in natural number nine. I don't. I think.

[A]

Yeah, but Joe. But Joe, we had a stage where we're just asking about a singular goal.

[B]

Now, I'll say this about the World Cup. Remember, every team that shows up at the World cup, there are no pushovers at the World Cup. That might sound weird when you've seen some of the score lines. Yeah, but people.

[A]

People forget that every team beats a bunch of teams to get here. Like, Italy is not in the World

[B]

cup because of Bosnia, and Bosnia hasn't had, like a good World Cup. But the thing is, every team at the World cup is playing every game like it's a World cup final. So when some people go like, oh, it's 48 teams, they're going to be small teams. Not, my friend, when Kurosawa is playing, that's the biggest game of their lives. When Cape Verde is playing, that's their World Cup.

[A]

I think maybe that's something people forget, whether actively, like subconsciously or consciously. I think a lot of people forget how many teams are at the World cup not because they were chosen, but because they won.

[B]

Yes, they won. They earned.

[A]

Like, every team is here because they won. But I think sometimes people make it seem like, oh, that's cute. They went and fetched Cape Verde. Oh, that's cute. They think it's like a Cinderella story.

[B]

Like America.

[A]

Yeah, like America's Got Talent or something. It's like, no, no, no. This is like an active, active story. But. But this is. This is. This is why I think, like, Turkey's really going to have to. It's. It's. There's going to be a lot of. What do they call it? It's going to Be a post mortem.

[B]

Yeah. So Vincenzo Montela, the coach, is certainly going to lose his job.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I loved him as a player.

[A]

It's going to be. It's going to be. It's going to be massive because here you have a team that maybe wasn't expected to win the whole thing by their fans, but the fans expected at least a late run. Yes, a late run. Because of the expected expanded format, by the way. Because of the expanded format. There's actually a high expectation on, on teams because there's easy. There are easier games, there are easier moments in groups also.

[B]

You don't have just to finish second.

[A]

Exactly. This eight third place teams are going to go through. So their fans are saying, yeah, we didn't expect everything, but we expected something. And then you've got that happening. And I find it interesting how I think a lot of the pressure is compounded by the fact that this is also the World Cup. It's like the Cinderella World Cup. So it would be one thing if Turkey was losing their games and that was that. It's something else. When you're a Turkish fan watching your team lose its games while Curacao is scoring against Germany, while they're getting a draw against Ecuador, while Cape Verde is getting a draw against Spain, while you're watching Japan go toe to toe with the Netherlands thrashing Tunisia, while you're watching, you're watching clubs, Team USA also the embarrassment turning into prime. Barcelona.

[B]

I feel like the second game. I feel like the second game they lost was very embarrassing because Paraguay were reduced. Paraguay first of all had lost to the US Badly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they went like, oh, this is a game we should be able to win because you went like, okay, Australia, maybe Australia sucker punched them because they dominated that game. They created all the chances. So you went like, okay, that's a bad day at the office. You know, we got sucker punched. But if you watch Uruguay get dominated the way they were dominated by the US you went like, oh, this should be a cakewalk for Turkey. They lose one nil. Paraguay plays most of the game, 10 men. Because Miguel Armenian was sent off for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And still Taki couldn't find a way.

[A]

By the way, do you think that should be a red card affair?

[B]

I think it should be. I think it should be. I think why FIFA is saying you should say it with your chest.

[A]

I don't think it should be a red car.

[B]

Say it with your chest. No. Cause when you do this and you know where it comes from. It comes from Vinny. Yeah. But I don't think it should be a red card. No, I think it should be. I think it should. Because when you say, I think it

[A]

should be a yellow card. Okay, Let me tell you why.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

For me, a red card. And I'll preface this by saying I choose this because of when the rule was enforced.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Whenever there's a new rule in football, I think we shouldn't take for granted how reflexive so many actions are in the game.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Athletes all over the world have gotten very comfortable doing this, even on the bench, when they speak to each other. You know, they do this. Watch the New York Knicks at the. At the victory parade. They're doing this the whole time.

[B]

They're speaking to each other because they

[A]

don't want their lips to be red.

[B]

Okay? You.

[A]

You get taught to do this. Put your hand in front of your mouth. Put your hand in front of your mouth. Now, it's a new rule that gets brought into the World Cup a few months before the World cup, not like years before. Right. So you don't get to, like, play it in the leagues. You get to the World cup, there's a moment, you just do your default instinctive. You put your hand. It's instinctive. Red card. I think it should be a yellow because the game itself, the game is disrupted so much by this decision that you should give a nation an opportunity to be like, oh, no, that person. Like, you know what I mean?

[B]

Also, by the way, Migi Aramaron, one of the nicest guys in the game, you also. I hate agreeing with you, but now that you put it like that, you're going like, oh, that should be an off ramp.

[A]

Even if they said to the opponent, what did he say to you? Even if the opponent said, no, no, he. He said something about my mother or whatever. Whatever, it's fine. Yellow card.

[B]

No, I agree with you. But I hate it. But I agree with you. Yes.

[A]

If the player says he said something racist. Oh, then the ref can say red card.

[B]

No, because that was. That was the origin of the rule.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Vinnie said Preciani said something racist. Preciani said, I didn't say anything.

[A]

And you can't prove it.

[B]

The referee couldn't prove it because Christian had. But the thing is where I agree with you and I hate it. I hate it. I hate this moment where I agree with you is the off ramp. This was a decision. This was a rule created basically two, three months ago.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the players have been doing this their whole lives. Because even Messi, when it Messi, it's

[A]

like taking your shirt off after you celebrate.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

You can't go to red card.

[B]

Yes. That should have been an off ramp.

[A]

You know what I mean? You can't go red card for time wasting. And I mean now, time wasting is like more calm. People understand it. But I think there are certain things where we forget that. It's just like part of the game.

[B]

It was a very reactive rule as well. It reacted to a particular incident because that incident involved a stop, lad.

[A]

Do you remember when they said, only captains can speak to the referee? They made a new rule. The players, players can't swarm the ref. Only the captains can speak to the referee. Players still ran the referee. And then they said, we'll give you a yellow card for this. Imagine if they said red.

[B]

Oh, the other rule as well was you can't ask for a yellow card. Yes. And players, every time they are fouled, yeah, they would do this and then

[A]

they would get yellows. But then over time, they stopped doing it. Except Vinicius. They stopped doing it. And it. But imagine if it was guys, red card. A red card for me is such an egregious offense.

[B]

It changes the dynamic of the game, changes the complexion, conditions the whole game. The good thing for Paraguay is it didn't cost them ultimately.

[A]

Now imagine. Now we're going back. Imagine if you're a Turkey fan going,

[B]

yeah, we gave this.

[A]

We got these guys got a red card.

[B]

But I have a question for you. Turkey and Tunisia, who is having a worst World Cup?

[A]

Turkey.

[B]

Turkey.

[A]

Yeah, Turkey.

[B]

Because Tunisia fired their coach after losing five nil. And also they improved because they lost four nil.

[A]

No, but Turkey, Turkey's having a worse one because Turkey had. Look at the team, look at the team. Look at the footballing heritage. Look at. They're in a moment. Turkey's having the worst one. You know, who was spared. Actually, the blush is funny enough. I think Turkey would have wanted to do what many of the other clubs who had a shaky start did.

[B]

Okay, teams. Yeah.

[A]

So Brazil.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[A]

You know, like Brazil came out and said, we've seen every meme, we've seen every critique, we've seen every pundit. Carlo Ancelotti switched out his front line, put Cunha in, benched. Igo, Tiago said, okay, let's play this game. Let's get out there. And very quickly they were on top of the game.

[B]

It helps when you're playing Haiti, though,

[A]

in your second game, but we say that until you're drawing against Cape Verge, you're right.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean? And I think that's. That's the biggest thing I've noticed at this World cup is the big teams in this second week, especially the ones who didn't have a good.

[B]

Like Spain and.

[A]

Yeah, yes, even Netherlands, etc. They came out swinging. Now, instead of, like, allowing the game to develop and thinking. The Netherlands scored two goals in the first like 20 minutes of their game.

[B]

Sweden turning Brand Brobie into prime Cliver and also Cody Gapco into prime Rude Van Easteroy.

[A]

But that, but that game. We'll talk about that game. Should have. Who else?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Scored. Brazil scored their first two goals. How quick. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I think. I think a lot of the teams are realizing this isn't a league match. It can't have the pace of a league match. You want to get in, get your goals as quickly as possible and then get into the game.

[B]

And.

[A]

And Spain, you saw that in their game, right?

[B]

Came out. Yeah.

[A]

First two minutes, first game, they were like, oh, no, let's build it up, Tikataka. Let's feel the game. They're like, no, this is not. Because they forget that their opponents are so happy to get a draw. You know what I mean? You can. A draw is valuable at this World cup, especially when third place gets you through if you're in the top eight third teams, you know. But now the teams came out. Brazil guns blazing, Spain, guns blazing.

[B]

But I think also the thing with opening games, opening games are always very keja fairs. Because no one wants. No, I mean, like, when it's your first game in the World cup, it's almost like, look at England.

[A]

Look at England. Yeah, but look at England and France.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They were like, there's nothing cagey about this.

[B]

You.

[A]

In my opinion, no team that's a big team, okay, should ever believe that the first game should be cagey. Because a first game literally means nothing. It also means nothing.

[B]

Yes, yes. You lose it.

[A]

If you lose it, you can still go on to win a World Cup. We've seen many winners do that. So the first game is a game where you should just come out, swing as hard as you can and then calibrate.

[B]

But the thing is, you're saying that as. As a monolith, as a team. But I'm saying the players, the individual players, get a picture.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

You think they're a bit nerves.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No player wants to be seen as the player who made the mistake, my friend, who made. It's Almost like, you know, you know when you come on as a substitute and they go like, let the first touch. Just be safe enough, my friend.

[A]

This is the World Cup. You can't put on a Brazil shirt and not be sure of yourself.

[B]

But I think it's the Brazil Matthias Kunya.

[A]

That guy did not look like he was just trying to feel out again.

[B]

He came as a substitute. He was fighting for his place.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Igor Thiago put him on the bench. Look, now, but now. Yeah, but I'm saying second game, things have settled now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The worst that could happen has almost happened.

[A]

But not Lamin. Lamin from the first game.

[B]

He came on as a substitute as well. Yeah, but also the mean has the fearlessness of youth, though.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know, Joe Messi talk to any teenager. Teenagers don't care about consequences.

[A]

Messi first came.

[B]

Messi has the fearlessness of a veteran.

[A]

No, you're gonna make excuses for everyone. You're gonna make excuses for everyone now.

[B]

Yes. No, no, you're right, Hurricane. No, you're right. No, you're right, you're right, you're right. It's your best kind of saying. Fortune favors the brave.

[A]

Yes, it does come out. It does. And by the way, that's another narrative I feel like needs to change, especially after the second week at the World Cup. This whole narrative around, like, David versus Goliath. I think we need to switch it

[B]

up, like, as much as regards African teams. Yeah.

[A]

When they go like, oh, Cote d' Ivoire against Germany, David versus Goliath, Senegal versus David versus Goliath. I feel like pundits, commentators, news patronizing, by the way. Yeah, it's patronizing. But more importantly, it's also inaccurate now. Okay, first of all, physically, if you look at the actual players, it's reversed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, the roles are definitely reversed. Like, Germany was struggling for size.

[B]

So you're saying it's wrong both metaphorically and also literally.

[A]

And quite literally. And secondly, I think we've outgrown that metaphor, David versus Goliath, because it's not David versus Goliath. You know, it's not like, oh, can David defeat Goliath? No, David is now a world beater. David has multiple players from Europe playing in his squad. David now has some of the most talented footballers.

[B]

David's been in the gym taking steroids,

[A]

taking creatine, doing his thing. David is, like, on top of it. David's got a few belts under. You know what I mean?

[B]

I always had a problem with the original story anyway, why I felt David was I felt David was a wimp. He was just throwing things, you know, like, come on.

[A]

Nah, man. It's actually funny you say that. I remember reading something that says we might have misunderstood that whole story if it was a real story that happened. Because they're saying, by all accounts, Goliath may just have been like this very big, lumbering man.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And David was actually nimble, Was, like, super quick with his slingshot. It was actually a bad. It was a bad match.

[B]

But my life.

[A]

Okay, Like, Goliath, it was actually bad for him. Even if you read it in the story, in the Bible, like, David comes there and he's like, I don't need all this armor. I don't need.

[B]

It will weigh me down.

[A]

Yeah. He's like, it'll weigh me down. And so, like, Goliath is there this lumbering. You know what I mean?

[B]

I see your point.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's.

[A]

That's what I think it is in a weird way. It shouldn't be, you know, or will David beat Goliath? It should be like, is Goliath still what he's hyped up to be?

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[A]

I feel like a lot of host nations or a lot of the big nations, let's, you know, the old winners,

[B]

European nations, they're just old Goliaths.

[A]

Like England. England. They're considered a Goliath.

[B]

Yes, but when.

[A]

When was the last time they want to fight? That's like the big fights.

[B]

That's what I'm thinking. It comes down to the recognizability.

[A]

When was the last time Brazil won its big fights?

[B]

Yes. It comes down to how recognizable your players.

[A]

When was the last time Italy.

[B]

Italy hasn't met there.

[A]

Italy still considered a Goliath. Yes.

[B]

When was the last time Italy.

[A]

Think about it.

[B]

Since 2006.

[A]

Come on. We're still calling these teams Goliaths. At some point. We've got to, like, change the term now. It can't be like. It can be like, yo, is this Goliath still?

[B]

German didn't make it out of the group. Two consecutive World Cups, 2018 and 2022. And still.

[A]

You get what I'm saying?

[B]

No, no, I hear you.

[A]

I think all of these. All of these games, like, you can't look at Senegal anymore. Even, like, the way the pundits talk about it. I. I mean, not that I should be. It's not like I'm offended by this, but I even find it weird that even, like, the commentators and the pundits are still like. And Africa look at the Africans doing it, the African American. No one says that about the European teams.

[B]

You know, when a movie star has been so good, they cost. On the hype of their success for the longest time. And then you go like, yeah, yo, Nicolas, do you know many bad movies Nicolas Cage had to put out for us to finally go like, yo, guys, I think Nicolas Cage is no longer a star, but for the longest time it was Nicolas Cage, box office superstar, and you were the guys. No, Yeah.

[A]

I think we need to start. We need to start because. Okay, let's look at the Germany Cote d' Ivoire game. Germany, Ivory coast coming in. People would go, oh, David versus Goliath. Can Ivory coast stand up to them? Watch the actual game. Watch the chances created.

[B]

German was struggling. Yes.

[A]

There's a specific moment that we all remember. If Simon Adingra.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. First times that ball. Yes. Puts it on targets. Nicholas Pepe, by the way, late in the game as well. Late.

[A]

All of a sudden the game has changed. You know what I mean? It's not like Germany was all over that team. Germany scores a phenomenal goal. But even that tells you something. If you have to score a phenomenal goal to win the game, it means that you weren't the Goliath you thought you were. Yes, but I think like Spain against Saudi Arabia.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That is like, okay, you can see that this is a lopsided competition, but if you have to put together the most amazing pass, the most amazing touch and turn and shot to get your goal, then, my friend, this wasn't the mistake.

[B]

But I think so.

[A]

Does that make sense?

[B]

No, but I think it's still. And I agree with you, but I think it's also about the legacy, how many titles you've won. So, like.

[A]

But that's my point.

[B]

I'll give you an example. Germany versus Ivory Coast.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When Germany scores, when Dennis under, you know, quick turn and that first time shot, first of all by the natural finisher because he didn't even need to

[A]

know where the goal was. Absolutely out of this world.

[B]

So when he scores, almost every person I know who is a student of the game, every person who has loved the game for a long time, immediately went back to Gary Lineker's court. You know that famous quote by Gary Lineker where when, like, football is a simple game where 22 men chase the ball for 90 minutes and in the end the Germans win.

[A]

That's so funny.

[B]

So everyone went back to that. Everyone remembered, oh, this is what the Germans do. There were so many Dutch Fans. Cause Holland and Germany have. Or the Netherlands and Germany have that weird rivalry. There's so many Dutch fans who went like, yeah, we've seen this happen so many times. The Germans always do this. It's almost like they give you hope and then a dagger. So I think it's about the legacy. And you're right.

[A]

But at some point, we're gonna ask ourselves, like, is Goliath the underdog now? You know what we're gonna ask ourselves?

[B]

You know what's happening? Cause Americans would relate to this. It's the legacy admission. You know when they go like, oh, your father.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He was an alumnus at this college. Oh, the library is named after him. Yes.

[A]

And just because your dad went to the school doesn't mean you deserve to be.

[B]

You don't have the grades even. But they go like, oh, right, you don't have.

[A]

Germany won the World Cup. Not this.

[B]

Not this generation. Yes.

[A]

You get what I'm saying? This current Argentina squad won the World Cup.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

See, that's different.

[B]

Yes, that's different.

[A]

This current French squad won the World Cup. That's different. When you look at, like, the pieces. So you're saying a lot of it.

[B]

Italy shouldn't be getting into a college.

[A]

You can't. You can't.

[B]

It should be going to a community college somewhere.

[A]

You can't still be riding on the coattails of a generation that doesn't exist anymore. Oh, we've won the World Cup. No, We?

[B]

Who's we?

[A]

That's why. That's where. If you had, like, an African parent, they would be quick to.

[B]

Yeah, they would be reminded.

[A]

You'd be like, ah, we bought this house. They'd be like, who's we? You live in this house?

[B]

I bought it. This is my roof. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. This is my house and my car. Yeah, but that's why you live in it.

[B]

Yeah, but that's why we don't have Nepal babies in Africa.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly.

[B]

The concept of the Nepal baby is spoiled. It's like, totally. So for me, it's wasted on an African parent.

[A]

It doesn't work.

[B]

An African parent goes like, what do you mean? This is my stuff. You better go out there and look for your own stuff. Because I also remember African parents love struggle. They go, like, I struggled.

[A]

Yeah. Do you know what I get here?

[B]

You have to struggle as well. You appreciate it when you struggle.

[A]

Maybe that's why we appreciate Team USA so much now, is because it feels like their struggle is bearing fruit.

[B]

And it's also disconnected. They don't have that legacy. They don't have a team. They can point to where they go, like, oh, this team. Like they have.

[A]

Man, they did well, man.

[B]

They've had some teams like in 2002 that maybe lost to Germany, but I still don't have our team. Yes, it was great. No, it was great.

[A]

It was great for football. Again, they're through now. Two games, by the way.

[B]

Is through, by the way.

[A]

How do you. How do you feel about the new format? Goal difference used to be the determining factor. Now it's head to head.

[B]

I think it sucks because now it means, like, teams immediately know that the

[A]

third game means nothing.

[B]

Means nothing. Because back then when goal difference is the determinant or is the decider, then the teams go like, okay, third game, we're going to give it a. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because it might determine where you end up.

[B]

Yes. Now it's.

[A]

Now Mexico has Mexico, literally.

[B]

Yeah. They don't need to.

[A]

Can walk onto the pitch against Czechia and they can sit down and it does not change their outcome at all.

[B]

And Czechia can score as many goals as they want. Yes. I think FIFA tried to do head to head to avoid. I think it backfired. I think. I think it backfired. But Mexico making it through is good. I watch that Mexico. I think Mexican keeper made the save of the tournament. He made like an incredible double save when he was on the goal.

[A]

Oh, he did the. It's.

[B]

That was insane.

[A]

He had the first save down and then the second save, he was falling.

[B]

Yes. And he hit the ball. That was a great feel. We celebrate like the strikers with their golazos.

[A]

But that this has been the World cup of goalkeepers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No goalkeepers are looking good in this World Cup. Yeah, no, they're actually looking very good.

[B]

His mama, his mom was allowed into the country. That's. That's how good a performance he gave in that game.

[A]

That's when you know that forget about the.

[B]

Also. Also forget about the following his mom, you know, and that's.

[A]

That's when you go, like, how good were you? I was so good that America changed its immigration policies for my mom.

[B]

And also the mom was received as like a. Some kind of returning, like a dignitary. Yes. But also, like, Virginia's story is so interesting and I think we touched about this.

[A]

Yeah, we did last time.

[B]

Yeah. He got like millions of followers and he's almost like the reverse Spider man, because with great power came great irresponsibility. So he received 14 million followers. And the first thing he did was follow everybody, every Instagram buddy that he could find.

[A]

Hey, man, live your dream.

[B]

You know, also at 40. Yeah. You know, this is his last dance and he's going like, I'm going down swinging. Yeah, I know. The keepers have been outstanding.

[A]

What are we excited? Looking forward. What are we looking for?

[B]

Looking forward. I'm very interested, one, in how Sweden navigates their last game.

[A]

You know, let's talk about that game before we go into what's coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what your analysis was. I think that's one of those games where the score doesn't reflect the chances. So Sweden is a very spiky team. And what I mean by that is, you know, like, I think a team that's well balanced has a very smooth shape to it. So its good moments and its bad moments are not particularly far from each other. So it creates, like, a really beautiful smooth shape.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Then there are teams that are just, like, bad. So it's like a small circle. But then you have spiky teams. Amazing moment. Terrible moment. Amazing moment. Terrible moment. Amazing moment. Because Sweden is so spiky. They conceded in every terrible moment, but they had, like, really good spikes where they could have scored and they didn't. Like, I thought Isak was fantastic feeding the ball to Gyokerez. I think Gyokerez was fantastic feeding the ball to Ajari. Ayari should have put a ball on target. Gyokerez, I think, should have been a little bit more clinical. There were, like, three or four chances where Sweden could have scored and should have scored, in my opinion, and they didn't. And that turns the game. Because when it's two nil and you make it two one.

[B]

Yeah. Of course, now it's a totally different.

[A]

The Netherlands is a bit shaky now,

[B]

and we've seen them against Japan. Yes.

[A]

If it's 2:1 or 3:1 and you make it 3:2, momentum, shaking it. I just felt like Sweden. I think people are writing Sweden off prematurely.

[B]

I think they ran into a Dutch team again, because also you are talking about teams that study that started in a cagey manner and then turned on the style. The Netherlands did that in the second game. I think they ran into a Dutch team that finally got its tactics together. Because, remember, in the first game, they played Danielle Marin as the lone fellow, as the lone forward. And then, because in this game, Somerville was struggling with a knock, they moved Daniel Marin to the wing, and then they brought in Brian Brobie. It was like, a handful.

[A]

I've always thought Marlon Is better on the right.

[B]

Yeah. No, so they. So that's what they did. And then they brought him because Brobie killed there. He killed them with his physicality. He killed them with his strength. He killed them with his running. And I think for the longest time, for the longest time, especially in the first half, Lindelof and his defensive partner couldn't handle that much power.

[A]

You know, what made me wonder, actually, I wonder if, you know, Brobie and Haaland and a lot of these, even Lukaku, for glimpses.

[B]

Big strong boys. Yes.

[A]

I wonder if football, like fashion, is experiencing its come back to bell bottoms moment.

[B]

Oh, it went through this more forces where we.

[A]

We had a game for a long time where it was have a big man up front, he powers through, he makes space, he gets you goals. Then that man became shorter and shorter and shorter.

[B]

Smaller. Yes.

[A]

Messi, yes. Basically eclipsed, like, basically deleted that position from the game. And now it was the David Villas and it was, you know, the Agueros and. But it was really like the point of that player was not to like overpower a defense.

[B]

It was cue them through their movement.

[A]

Right. But then, because the game became about movement and passing, defending became tighter.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It became about a block, it became about shapes to cut off the passing lanes and the triangles. But now because of that, one of the only ways you can get a goal and you can score is to whip the ball in behind a defense or to whip the ball in or to create some sort of running chaos. Because that's where numbers don't help you.

[B]

You need a battering. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. If you, if you have six defenders running towards their own goal, it doesn't really help them as much as six defenders facing away from their goal.

[B]

Yes, yes, you're right. Yes. But I think that's the thing about soccer. Soccer or football, it's very cyclical.

[A]

Yeah. And so now, now it feels like, you know, like looking at Brobie, I was like, I think five, six years ago, that player is on a squad anyway.

[B]

He was endangered or even almost extinct.

[A]

Yes. And now it looks like there's a space for him in every squad in the world. Even like a gyoka is.

[B]

Yes, yes. Yeah.

[A]

There's like space for like this big, fast player who's going to like, cause chaos up top. It's one of the reasons I actually think Mbappe is only being saved by his pace. Not. I think Mbappe is one of the greatest players we'll ever see. I still think he should be playing on the left in the Middle without his pace. He just gets like knocked off a little.

[B]

Yes, just.

[A]

He gets knocked off balance. He just gets. He. He doesn't like. He's not a battering ram.

[B]

Do you.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I was looking at. So for me, when I look at Sweden, because Sweden does. Sweden has gone back to that. First of all, Sweden uses two strikers, which is a rare.

[A]

They shouldn't, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know what you think of it. They shouldn't. I like the. It's like played on the left.

[B]

No, but then also Norway, two strikers. Sooth. And.

[A]

Yeah, but I feel like they're like, they have to.

[B]

Okay. No, but I'm going like.

[A]

So when I had nothing, it wasn't just. Okay, let me put it this way. It wasn't about the two strikers. It was about the formation behind it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you have two strikers, but then you play an attacking midfielder right behind them. So you're playing a four, three. One, two. Your wings are so wide open. GPO and DUM are having the time of their lives.

[B]

They just overload because now your wings are just.

[A]

And the game is on the wings most of the time anyways. So people are going around you. You know what I mean? You've built like a really strong front door with no walls.

[B]

But that's what I'm thinking. That's why. That's. I'm very interested in how Sweden handles their last game because Graham Potter in the game against the Dutch, he showed that he's no Harry Potter. But in the final game, in the final game, he's going to need to, like, whip some magic man because it will be very disappointing with a team that Elanga and Lucas Bagwell with a team. Can I ask him a question? That talented.

[A]

Why don't they start?

[B]

Elanga, his squad, like, goes for them, but I think maybe they're. No, maybe. Maybe. Here's what I'm thinking. With his raw pace, Grand Potter is going like, oh, I need him against tiring legs. That's the only excuse, my friend.

[A]

That makes no sense. When you look at his record. Elanga is playing from minute one.

[B]

He has.

[A]

So here's.

[B]

Okay, here's what I'm. Sometimes. Sometimes he runs head down. Sometimes there's a Road Runner quality to his game where you don't know what is going to happen. So, okay, here's.

[A]

Maybe I have a. I have a differing opinion here I go. Bringing in impact players in those types of situations can work in your favor. Sometimes I think what a lot of coaches take for granted is you might bring them in when you're down now. And now you're. And now you're playing against somebody who can afford to sit back and rob you of yards.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

So now this person gets to go. Okay, Elanga's faster than me. I'm gonna stand 10, 20 yards further back. Let's move him of space and rob him of space. But if you start Elanga and he's running from the very beginning and we need to attack at the same time, we now have to choose do we attack? Look at what PSG did to Arsenal. Bukaya Saka spent the whole game defending.

[B]

Defending. Yes.

[A]

Because Kavaskeria on that, on that left

[B]

wing was a constant.

[A]

He needs a double team. So now Bukaya Saka, one of the best, like wide players, doesn't get to do play. He spends 60 something minutes defending and then he comes off the gate the field.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's what Pace does from the very get go.

[B]

And also I'll tell you as someone who has played defensive positions, pace is scary. When you're playing against a player who you know in pace is terrible. Who you know in a full trace can be terrible. It's like the worst because like a player who dribbles, you go like, oh, maybe I'll touch the ball when a player. Because also remember foot races are like the most natural, almost most alpha male. Like you think about when someone can beat in it.

[A]

It is the most primitive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Competition.

[B]

Yes. Earliest like you know, primitive lizard brain. So like the goal is called once he's running through the middle because you know he's beating you for like pest is not something you can. Someone is either faster than you or not.

[A]

Yeah, that's it.

[B]

It's like very. Yeah. No, so I'm very interested now. He'll handle that.

[A]

Okay. So we're looking forward to the Sweden game. That's. Yeah, that's going to be a big game. Germany's games are done.

[B]

I'm looking forward to the Egypt game as well. Not because it could be Salah's last game if they don't make it, but also because Egypt for me has. You did ask me last week about my like most heartwarming moment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember for me I didn't say this and I think I should have said this last week. For me it's seeing the Egyptian coach on the bench, Hossam Hassan, he's a legend. He used to be the face of Egypt before Salah came along. He helped Egypt win most of Those stars. Yeah. And now he's coaching at the World cup and he's coaching the guy who replaced him as the first.

[A]

Oh, that's amazing. I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't know that he was part of that team that had, you know, Mohamed Abu tr. Mohammed Barakat and all these legends. But seeing him at. Because he never. He never got a chance to go to the World Cup. So you imagine if Salah never got a chance to the World cup, he kept winning all these Nations Cups, but for some reason or another, Egypt could never make it to the World Cup. And now he's at the World cup, he's the coach. So I'm really looking forward to at least him making it to the knockout runs. It would be like a beautiful, like, way to bring his story all around. He's a legend of African football. So for me, that was just watching him, it's like almost. Remember when Maradona was coaching Messi?

[A]

It was a win. That was beautiful.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's a beautiful.

[A]

You see, it was dysfunctional, but.

[B]

It was beautiful. It was dysfunctional. Yes. But like, it's almost like. You see this. It's like almost a passing of the torch, but like in a game, like, not. Not like outside the game.

[A]

Yeah, Actually actively in the game.

[B]

Yeah. So I would really. I would really love for Hossam Hassan to make it to the knockout rounds. And also for Salah, like, that would be a good send off.

[A]

Yeah. We need as many of them as possible. We need. What about your boy CR7? Do you think he's.

[B]

The funny thing is, I'm a huge admirer. And people might not. Might find this hard to believe. I'm a huge admirer of Cristiano Ronaldo the person. Cristiano Ronaldo, the human being.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like a superlative human being. When you hear about the things he has done for charity. When you hear about the fact that doesn't have tattoos because he likes donating blood, that's the reason he doesn't have tattoos. He's like a super active. But then because he's a competitor, I think like Cristiano Ronaldo the competitor. Cristiano the human being. Especially when they come on the pitch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a reason why people call him Homelander. Cause I think Cristiano Ronaldo.

[A]

Did you see that meme, by the way?

[B]

It was like. It was like word for word. Yeah. No. So I feel like the competitor. It's almost like if someone has like an alter ego, you know, so like, you know, Clark. Clark Kent and Superman and Bruce Wayne and Batman. But then if Batman takes over, because the thing that makes Superman very human is Clark Kent. The thing that makes Batman human is Bruce Wayne. So I feel like with Cristiano Ronaldo, the alter ego sometimes takes over when he's actually. Most times takes over when he's on the pitch. And so what happened in the first game was, of course, it no longer has the legs, so he's no longer as mobile as he should be. The midfield can't feed you if you're not making runs in behind. The midfield can't feed you. However superlative that midfield theory is. Bruno Fernandez, Yon Neves, Vitinia, they can't feed you if every run you're making, you're in an offside position. So they spent most of the time, despite having 80% of the possession, just passing sideways. And then what happened was after the game, they asked y ne Cristiano and he said something that I thought was diplomatic.

[A]

I actually thought it was diplomatic because

[B]

he went like, oh, he's just another player. Cuz you don't want to he pressure on Ronaldo to go like, oh, he's our only hope. He's our Princess Leia. Please save us.

[A]

No.

[B]

He went like, no, he's just. He's just one of us. We have to deliver. Ronaldo fans didn't take it like that. And remember, Yao Neves had scored the goal that spared their brushes. They have been flooding. His Instagram comments were coming in a hundred comments of hate per minute. They didn't just do that. They went and flooded his girlfriend. His girlfriend. And they're doing that to Bruno Fernandes. They're doing it to Yawo Neves, they're doing it to Vitinya, and they also are doing it to. You won't believe this, and this is going to hurt you. They're doing it to deliver poor player. I don't even know whether I should say his name.

[A]

Who.

[B]

Who passed away.

[A]

They're doing it to Jacob Jota.

[B]

That's it. Yeah. They're going to his comments and they're leaving comments. No, I know. It's. It's. And some people. So they even. They are coming to Nevis's Instagram saying it should have been you instead of Jota. It should have been. That's what I'm saying. I didn't even want.

[A]

That's the. That's like the.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

That's the downside of football.

[B]

That's What I'm saying, I didn't even think the fans.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, the fans get.

[B]

You know, because I went like, should I bring up Diogo Jota?

[A]

Cuz it's.

[B]

Bring him up in these.

[A]

Yeah. But it is like they're flooding.

[B]

And so I'm thinking. I'm thinking, how is that.

[A]

Does that.

[B]

How is that affecting the chemistry?

[A]

That's what I was wondering. I was like, does this. Is this one of those moments where you hope a coach can, like, shut the whole thing down and say, team, we have to do this? Or does it put too much pressure on Portugal now?

[B]

It puts too much pressure. Now they're going to be watching every pass. Yeah.

[A]

Now they like playing for a nation, by the way.

[B]

Either you pass Ronaldo or you know what's going to happen off the pitch. But also I'm going like, these players these days are online constantly, so they're seeing all this. And for me, I'm just thinking, how does Roberto.

[A]

Matthew. You know what also people forget is in footballing nations, there's also, like, a strange entitlement that fans have where, like, footballers will talk about how they can't go to the grocery store, their families can't go out, because people go to their families or them in public and curse them out for their performances.

[B]

It's not just football matches. I think Ascent Wenger did talk about. He can't pick. Coaches have talked about not being able to pick their kids from school because a parent comes up to you. But that.

[A]

But you see, I don't.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I don't hear. Maybe it happens. And I don't hear. But I don't hear stories like. Like that in American sports.

[B]

Americans are very good. I think at some times they go like, you're trash. Yes.

[A]

But I don't.

[B]

Yeah. With your kid. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I don't see them. I don't see stories like that. And, like, that's the one thing about football where it's like, the weight of the nation is not born easily. You know what I mean? Like, literally carrying the weight of your nation is one that's. Yo, man. It's no joke.

[B]

Yeah. So now I'm just thinking about how toxic that is for the. Because now Portugal, the same way you said Spain. Yeah. The same way you said the Dutch. Portugal really needs to win its next game.

[A]

Yeah, they do.

[B]

They really cannot afford. Not. Because the pressure is only going to intensify. And some people are saying, and I'm one of those people. You're one of those people who Are saying maybe Ronaldo should be taking on a lesser role. Maybe should go from being, you know, when they go like, oh, yes, they did name on the poster. Maybe should be a supporting character. Because also when you think about the major trophy, the one major trophy Portugal has won. Ronaldo was forced off by injury and he spent the entire final against France, Euro 2006. He spent rather Euro 2016. He spent the whole final cheerleading from the bench. And who scored the goal? Eder. No one knows him. No one knew him before, no one knows what happened to him after.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But guess what? Ronaldo was a European champion. So by that time he was forced by injury to go off the pitch.

[A]

So what you're saying is someone, someone in the Portuguese team needs to slide tackle Ronaldo in the change room.

[B]

No, their family will be make something happen. Your family home would be firebomb.

[A]

Yeah, you'd be gone. You'd be deported from your home country.

[B]

No, it would be. All right.

[A]

Well, this has been it. Another week of the World Cup. Another exciting one. Yeah, it's going to be fire, man.

[B]

Yes. No, no, I, I, I can't wait. Because normally it would be like two more weeks to go now. Cuz normally the World cup used to.

[A]

Yeah. Now, now it's done.

[B]

Yes. Now we have like four more weeks.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. We're not even. Pace yourself. I tell everybody who's watching the World cup. Now I'm like, pace yourself. This is the longest World cup we've ever had. This is the most packed World cup we've ever had. Pace yourself. Don't get too angry. Don't get too happy. Unless you're Turkish. Unless you're Turkish.

[B]

The Turkish fans have every reason. Yeah.

[A]

You can go crazy, but otherwise enjoy it.

[B]

I'll say this, the reason I'm enjoying the also the fact that we have four more weeks is, you know, our watch parties, you know, we've built, we've built a community, actually. It really feels like a family. And then every week that passes because you keep reading out certain names.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think every week that passes feels like, oh, we're getting to know more.

[A]

Yeah, we're building. It's like a little, it's a little village.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's really, it's really beautiful. I don't know where four weeks are going to take us. Maybe we're going to be meeting this because it feels like now we are dating, you know, but we're not meeting. You know, you're dating, but I don't trust you yet to meet my friends. But maybe four weeks from now, who knows?

[A]

You never know. You never know. We'll see how it goes. But sure. This was fun, man. As always, my friend, brother, a pleasure.

[B]

I just heard the fact that I had to agree with you at some

[A]

point, but ah, man, you know, as, as Gianni Infantino says, the World cup brings people together who never imagined they. They could be together. And even Joe and Trevor can agree sometimes because of the World Cup.

[B]

No, it's beautiful, man. It's beautiful. I'm looking forward to more of these, man.

[A]

Thank you again so much to the sponsor of today's episode, Mazda. Mazda delivers confidence and control in every single drive. And Consumer Reports Safest new car brand award proves it. You know, there's a phrase I really like. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't, and that's true. A calm drive home, a conversation that continues. A trip that stays exactly what it was supposed to be. That's what we're looking for. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand in America. Mazda's safety features are designed to bring more enjoyment to every drive, not to take away from it so you can do what you feel like doing. Mazda has been named Consumer Reports safest new car brand people. Safest. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. What Now? World cup bonus episodes are produced by Day Zero Productions in in partnership with Sirius xm. Executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, Ryan Hardooth and Rebecca Shane. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannis Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join us every Monday during the World cup for bonus episodes of what now with Trevor Noah.