Ep 470: Revisiting childhood favorites for a nostalgic reading project

Summary

Podcast Summary: What Should I Read Next? – Ep 470: Revisiting Childhood Favorites for a Nostalgic Reading Project

Release Date: March 18, 2025
Host: Anne Bogel
Guest: Sarah Swarbrick

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Introduction

In Episode 470 of What Should I Read Next?, host Anne Bogel welcomes Sarah Swarbrick from the outskirts of Sydney, Australia. Sarah shares her unique reading project centered around revisiting beloved childhood books and pairing them with contemporary releases to create meaningful literary dialogues.

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Guest Background and Reading Journey

Sarah Swarbrick opens up about her life, residing in a peaceful area near Sydney's Blue Mountains with her two adult children. Her reading journey took a transformative turn during her nearly decade-long role as a full-time carer for a family member, which led her to escape into romance novels. However, as her circumstances changed, Sarah sought a more intentional and thoughtful approach to reading.

"For several years with my husband's job, the four of us went to live first in Norway for three years and then we moved to the US to New Jersey for two years. So that was very interesting." [06:34]

Sarah was inspired by Alberto Manguel’s My Reading Year to embark on a challenge: rereading her favorite childhood books and pairing each with a newer release that resonates on deeper thematic levels.

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Revisiting Childhood Favorites

Sarah begins her challenge with Winnie the Pooh by A.A. Milne, a book she received at age five. She notes the understated yet profound themes of friendship that echo throughout her reading life.

"The stories are quite short, obviously, because they're for children... It was just a beautiful way to kind of escape and go back to Hundred Acre Wood." [17:25]

Paired with The Beauty of Everyday Things by Yan Engy, Sarah explores the concept that beauty lies in functionality and thoughtful design. This pairing allows her to perceive Winnie the Pooh through a more analytical and appreciative lens.

"Reading these two together made me realize that I need to slow down and read them thoughtfully... because the reason I've picked them, the reason I've carried them around the world is because they did matter to me." [21:37]

Her third favorite is Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay, representing her enduring love for fantasy. Although challenging to pair due to its depth and immersive world-building, Sarah remains enthusiastic about incorporating it into her year-long project.

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Exploring What Doesn’t Work

Sarah candidly discusses her attempt to read Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro, which she ultimately found unmanageable due to its intense and somber themes.

"It was a book I very nearly didn't finish, and I only did because I needed to see if it had a happy ending, which kind of doesn't." [00:00]

Anne empathetically acknowledges Sarah’s experience, emphasizing the importance of choosing books that resonate personally.

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Current Readings and Pairings

For February, Sarah dove into The Love Hypothesis by Ali Hazelwood and paired it with Splinter of the Mind’s Eye, a Star Wars universe book. Though the pairing was ambitious, Sarah valued the contrasting genres and the insight it offered into the evolution of book styles.

"They are absolutely nothing alike. One is contemporary romance, the other is very much a Star Wars book." [27:49]

Sarah continues her challenge with plans to read classics like Jane Eyre, The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton, and The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett, each paired with contemporary works that explore similar themes of friendship, place, and personal growth.

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Anne’s Recommendations

Anne Bogel provides Sarah with a curated list of book pairings to enhance her reading project:

1. Helen Hampf’s The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street paired with Christopher Isherwood’s 84 Charing Cross Road

   • 84 Charing Cross Road explores the friendship formed through letters between a New Yorker and a British bookseller, paralleling Hampf’s depiction of enduring friendships.

2. Kim Fae’s Love and Saffron and Kate and Frida**

   • Both novels are epistolary, detailing the blossoming friendships through letter exchanges, akin to 84 Charing Cross Road.

3. Roland Allen’s The Notebook: A History of Thinking on Paper

   • A nonfiction exploration of notebooks as tools for creativity, complementing Sarah’s focus on thoughtful reading.

4. Tiffany D. Jackson’s Let Me Hear a Rhyme as a pairing suggestion for The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton

   • This contemporary YA novel delves into themes of friendship, loss, and ambition, resonating with the emotional depth of The Outsiders.

5. Barbara Kingsolver’s Prodigal Summer paired with Frances Hodgson Burnett’s The Secret Garden

   • Prodigal Summer offers a modern exploration of human connections and natural beauty, reflecting the transformative journey in The Secret Garden.

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Selecting the Right Pairings

Sarah grapples with choosing the perfect pairings from Anne’s suggestions, contemplating books like Kiley Reid’s Come and Get It and Jason Reynolds’s Long Way Down which, while not direct matches, offer thematic depth and contemporary relevance.

"I have no idea. They all sound like they would work so well for my challenge and I'm just wondering if I read them all, really." [47:46]

Anne encourages Sarah to embrace the exploratory nature of her project, emphasizing that the aim is to foster thoughtful connections between diverse narratives.

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Focusing on Themes and Personal Connection

A recurring theme in Sarah’s project is the importance of place and friendship. Whether revisiting the magical landscapes of Winnie the Pooh or the transformative settings in The Secret Garden and Prodigal Summer, Sarah seeks to understand how these environments and relationships have shaped her perspective as a reader.

"I just want to think about it... what I'm doing this year is thinking about the books and looking at the ways in which they speak to each other." [20:34]

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Conclusion and Future Outlook

As the conversation wraps up, Sarah expresses her eagerness to delve into the recommended pairings and how they will enrich her reading challenge. Anne remains enthused about Sarah’s journey, highlighting the value of such personalized reading projects in deepening one’s literary appreciation.

"I enjoyed it... it's always good to talk about books." [54:43]

Sarah plans to begin with Love and Saffron and The Duchess of Bloomsbury Street, anticipating the profound insights they will bring to her 53rd year of reading.

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Key Takeaways

• Intentional Reading: Sarah’s project underscores the importance of reading with purpose, revisiting formative books while exploring new ones to create meaningful literary dialogues.

• Thematic Pairings: Pairing books with complementary themes allows for deeper reflection and understanding of recurring motifs such as friendship, place, and personal growth.

• Balancing Genres: Incorporating both fiction and nonfiction ensures a well-rounded reading experience, catering to varying interests and intellectual pursuits.

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Notable Quotes

• "The stories are quite short, obviously, because they're for children... It was just a beautiful way to kind of escape and go back to Hundred Acre Wood." — Sarah Swarbrick [17:25]

• "It was a book I very nearly didn't finish, and I only did because I needed to see if it had a happy ending, which kind of doesn't." — Sarah Swarbrick [00:00]

• "Reading these two together made me realize that I need to slow down and read them thoughtfully... because the reason I've picked them, the reason I've carried them around the world is because they did matter to me." — Sarah Swarbrick [21:37]

• "I have no idea. They all sound like they would work so well for my challenge and I'm just wondering if I read them all, really." — Sarah Swarbrick [47:46]

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Final Thoughts

Sarah Swarbrick’s nostalgic reading project serves as an inspiring example of how revisiting childhood favorites paired with contemporary literature can enrich one’s reading life. Anne Bogel’s thoughtful recommendations provide a roadmap for other readers seeking similar literary adventures.

Happy reading!

Transcript

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It was a book I very nearly didn't finish, and I only did because I needed to see if it had a happy ending, which kind of kind of doesn't. So.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh, I hate the idea of reading that. Holding out hope. I don't think we're spoiling anything. Are we spoiling anything?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I'm trying not to. So. It is a fabulous book. It's just so not for me.

[Anne Bogle]

Hey readers. I'm Anne Bogle and this is what Should I Read Next? Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I read Next? We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading, and today we're doing a little literary matchmaking with one guest. Readers first, I want to tell you about our Patreon community. If you missed last week's episode, I had a great conversation with teammate Ginger Horton about Book Club Patreon and how these communities fit different styles of readers. Our Patreon community for what Should I Read Next? Makes a very real difference in our ability to do the work we do. As a way to say thank you for that ongoing financial support, we share weekly bonus episodes like our recent industry insights that explored the world of special editions, our one great book series that features reading superlatives from me and also sometimes from other members of our team, and episodes where our team answer questions submitted by our community members. Like last month's starter guide to the Romance genre, Patreon delivers more for your bookish listening pleasure and features more of a behind the scenes, casual book talk vibe than you'll hear on your main feed. Thanks to everyone who is already a part of our Patreon community and is tangibly supporting the effort and budget it takes to make the show every week. We are so appreciative. If you would like to come join us. Get the [e-mail] whatshouldIreadnext we would love to have you there. We're doing amazing things this spring and we will get you ready for the summer reading guide coming not too far from now. 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Sarah Swarbrick joins me today from the outskirts of Sydney, Australia, to talk about the special project she's crafted in advance of her 53rd birthday. With her responsibility shifting and her kids also getting older, Sarah's finding more time for reading lately. And after many years of gratefully turning to reading for relief and escape, she's excited to begin a new season in her reading life. One in which she has extra space to approach her books with a different kind of thoughtfulness and intention. She's decided that this year she wants to reread a selection of her favorite books from childhood. But that's not all. She's also trying to pair each childhood favorite with a more recent release. And there's the rub. It turns out it's hard to identify thoughtful pairings. As you'll hear, Sarah is looking for books that have a lot to say to each other that can really be in conversation with each other and not just in the ways that are obvious on the surface. Today, I'm excited to connect with Sarah and hear about the brilliant pairings she's already made and learn a bit more about how she's putting these pairs together. Then we'll explore some unpaired rereads and identify recent releases, or in some cases, new to her old releases, that she might want to experience side by side with her longstanding favorites. Let's get to it. Sarah, welcome to the show.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It's thrilling to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh, thank you for joining us. I'm so excited to talk books with you today. We'd loved your submission. I can't wait to dive in. Would you start by telling us a little about yourself? We'd like to give our readers a glimpse of who you are.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I live in Australia, obviously by the accent, in the very edge of Sydney, so almost as far from the centre of the city as you can get and still be called Sydney, which means I look at the Blue mountains out the back window, which is just lovely.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh, that sounds lovely.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It is. It's really peaceful. It's very nice. So I have two kids who are older. One's left home, the other is at uni and basically just comes home for washing and to sleep sometimes. And for several years with my husband's job, the four of us went to live in first in Norway for three years and then we moved to the US to New Jersey for two years. So that was very interesting.

[Anne Bogle]

Did you bring any souvenirs for your reading life back home with you? I really mean metaphorically.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

No. I took my books around the world though, so I have very well traveled books. They've been all the way around the world, some of these books.

[Anne Bogle]

I hope they enjoyed the experience.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I don't know. So for the last nearly 10 years I've been a full time carer for a family member and last year they had to go into care because, you know, there comes a point at which that is what needs to happen. And I suddenly found myself kids have grown up with all this time and so while I was caring, reading was my absolute saviour. But. But I found I couldn't read anything very deep or very dense or anything. And so I read a lot of romance, which was an absolute lifesaver. And I have nothing bad to say.

[Anne Bogle]

Ooh. But do you have a favorite book to toss in? Oh, any favorite? One of many favorites.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Any favorite? So Jasmine Gilroy was a starter and Ashley Paulson, who's a newer author, Fay, you know, kind of auto must buys because they transport you away. And that was fabulous. But when everything changed, I was like, I can read different books now. I can think a bit harder about what I'm reading. And so at the same time I stumbled across a book called My Reading Year by Alberto Manguel, in which the opening sentence almost is, in my 53rd year, I decided to reread the books that had made me a reader and I will turn 53 later this year and thought that sounds like a perfect challenge.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh, an invitation well timed.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely. So it sent me down a rabbit hole of thinking about what my favourite books had been when I was a kid and reading them, but pairing them with books that are newer, that make you think or. But not just make you think, but make you think about reading and how books are often in conversation with each other and how weird books often send you back to childhood favourites or books you've read before, how they seem to be talking even though obviously they don't talk. So that's what I've started doing.

[Anne Bogle]

Is the idea of your books in conversation with each other pinging off each other, especially when you're reading them in close time proximity. Is that something that's been with you for a long time or was that largely launched by a reading diary? Because I know he's very enthusiastic about the books themselves, of course, but also the thoughts and connections they trigger for us when they're in conversation with Each other and with what's happening in our lives.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Well, I think that was kind of the thought was I didn't wanna read his books. Cause they're not the books that matter to me.

[Anne Bogle]

You mean the books that he wanted to reread for his own.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yes, the books that he wanted to reread because they're not the books that made me a reader. But yes, him talking about books and it is a thing that kind of, I guess, had been playing in the back of my head for a while. And so keeping a reading diary and thinking a little bit more about books rather than just using them as an escape. And I have no, like, absolutely, that's a valid thing to do with books. But I have now a little bit of time and I'd like to think a little bit deeper about some of the books I'm reading. Not because they're necessarily deep books, but it's been absolutely fascinating to see where these books that some of which I haven't reread in 30 years or more, how they've actually influenced where I am today in terms of my reading life.

[Anne Bogle]

So now that you have time to ponder, you want to take advantage of it. And it sounds like, be really thoughtful about the books you want to read in this. Now we're catching you in the middle of your year of rereading, I believe. Yes.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

So five months in.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay, now tell me about the idea to pair those older books with more recent ones.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Partly because when I started, I didn't know what I was going to find with these books, that some of these books have been around the world. I've carried them with me for a very long time, even if I haven't reread them because they've always mattered to me. But I worried because they're kind of middle grade books, YA books. I worried that I would not get bored, but maybe not complete the challenge if I didn't kind of level up a bit, because I could, because I've got the time. And I also wanted to think about, which is something he talks about, that idea of books in conversation. So I wanted to look at where, as far as I'm concerned, my reading life started. And then what are people writing now? How does the thinking that I have carried since childhood, how does that influence what I'm reading now and what I'm thinking about now? And we have such amazing books by amazing authors coming out now. I couldn't resist the opportunity to read more books, really.

[Anne Bogle]

Sarah, I know I'm not the only one who hears that comment and just smiles real big because I know what that feels like. It sounds like you've been an avid reader for a long time if you're revisiting books now that you first read even as many as 30 years ago.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yeah, some of them are a lot older because, you know, Winnie the Pooh. The edition I have was given to me when I was five and that was 1977. So I've been reading a long time. It's my favourite place to go. It's been my favorite place to go forever. When you can't leave home or it's snowing outside and you know, -20, you gather the kids and read a book.

[Anne Bogle]

That sounds wonderful. Okay, so today we get to hear about the books you love when you don't, and we're going to explore more about your challenge and I believe send you on your way with some some older, maybe some new to you, but also some contemporary titles that may fit in well to this reading year. You are shaping for yourself for your 53rd year.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Fantastic. Thank you readers.

[Anne Bogle]

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[Sarah Swarbrick]

The three books I love were the three books that when I started thinking about this challenge, these were the three books that came to mind. That and the first two were the two that really set me up on the idea of let's read older and newer at the same time. And I'm so glad I did. It's been, it's been amazing to do it that way.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, I can't wait to hear what's the first book you love.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

So it's Winnie The Pooh by A.A. milne, which is probably not a book a lot of people would choose.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh. But it puts a big smile on my face just thinking about it.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Mine too. And I haven't reread this in many, many, many years. As I said, my copy was given to me when I was five. But just the thought of picking it up. When I started thinking about this challenge, I was like, I have to start here. And picking it up was, you know, like summer and childhood and endless possibilities. And it really took me by surprise because it is that. At least for me, it is that. But it was also how small the adventures are. They're everyday kind of adventures, which I think is probably the appeal to the child. But I hadn't thought about as an adult because, you know, I hadn't reread it. And the Importance of friendship, because really their story's about friendship. And the friendship sent me thinking about how often that's a theme in the books that I know that I like just in my general reading life. That's what one of the things I really look for is. Is there really good, you know, friendship or found family amongst the characters in the stories. So I was surprised that it came out of Winnie the Pooh. I hadn't thought about it like that.

[Anne Bogle]

Before, but I love that you noticed that. What was it like to revisit this as an adult?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It was a bit weird, but it was surprisingly funny, which I also don't remember. And the narrator of the stories directly talks to the reader and makes, you know, observations about, oh, well, they'd walk down the tree three times and you think, of course they. But as a child, I just remember the wonder and the excitement of it all. And as I say, I'd not realised that it was funny. And the stories are quite short, obviously, because they're for children, which meant that I think there's only 10 in the book Winnie the Pooh. And it took me 10 days. I just sat down and would read one at lunchtime. And it was just a beautiful way to kind of escape and go back to Hundred Acre Wood.

[Anne Bogle]

And that leads us to the second book you love, I believe.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yes. So this is the book that I paired with that, which is a much newer book, at least newer to me, because it's probably written at the same time. And it's called the Beauty Of Everyday Things by Japanese author Yan Engy, which is a series of essays. So he was a philosopher who wrote essays in which the basic principle was that the things we use every day, the cups, the clothes you'd put on first thing in the morning, the tablecloths, all those things should. Should be beautiful. And what he defines as beauty is not pretty or outrageously expensive. They should be well made, they should suit their purpose. And that. That's because they are well made and suit their purpose, that that makes them beautiful. And I found that idea fascinating. And one of the things he says as part of those essays was that our way of thinking changes our way of seeing. And to me, that almost encapsulated what I'm kind of thinking about this year because. And it paired beautifully with Winnie the Pooh, which sounds really strange, but so many of those episodes in Winnie the Pooh are about. They see one thing, they see something lost in the forest and it's a hangar. So Owl uses it as a doorbell, but it's Eeyore's tail, right. And so we, we think about how if you see it as just a lost object, then you use it for something and it works for that, but it actually has a deeper purpose and a deeper place to be. And the two books together, just the essays really help me see the beauty in Winnie the Pooh and that I might otherwise, particularly as an adult, kind of skipped over because you, you read fast and you don't slow down and think about the books. And so reading the two books at the same time just made me go, actually, yes, this is absolutely what I want to be doing with my reading time this, this year is thinking about the books and looking at, at the ways in which they speak to each other. Even though you could not almost get to more disparate books and yet they.

[Anne Bogle]

Have so much to say to each other. What made you think to pair these?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

When I thought about starting, Winnie the Pooh was where I had to start. And the Beauty of Everyday Things was a book I'd read maybe three or four years ago and when I was in the midst of caring and it had been in the back of my head and I'd left a post it note on the book to say, come back and read this when you've got the brain space to really think about what he's saying. And so it was actually just a coincidence of, well, I'm gonna Winnie the Pooh. I want to reread this book. So I just happened to be kind of. I went, well, I'll do those together and what's the worst that can happen? They've got nothing to say to each other. And you know, I. Even then that gives me something to think about, you know, do I need to change the way I'm thinking about doing this challenge for myself or does it work and then either way you learn something.

[Anne Bogle]

Reading this pairing early on, how did it make you think about what you want from the rest of the year and how you were going to Thoughtful.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It made me realise that I need to slow down with my reading. Which sounds odd, but some of these books, you know, they're all older, the older ones, some of them are only 150 pages and you look at that and go, oh, I could read that in a night or, you know, in an afternoon, because at the moment I have time to do that. But what putting these two books together made me realise was that in fact I need to slow down and I need to be reading them thoughtfully and not just going, well, that's a kids book. It's not gonna really have a lot to say because in fact the reason I've picked them, the reason I've carried them around the world is because they did matter to me. And reading them again, I should take it seriously and it's only for me, but I should take it seriously and I should really think about it. And so finding books to pair with it has been the challenge because initially I just thought of, as I say, as an excuse to buy more books or read the couple of books on the shelf that I'm like, oh, I've always wanted to reread that but now I'm trying to be much more deliberate. And that's why I submitted because I'm trying to be really deliberate about what I'm picking to pair with the books that I've chosen. I think that's what will give me a great experience over the year, which is, you know, ultimately what I'm looking for.

[Anne Bogle]

I'm just noting that that book was there when you needed it twice. And that's really inspiring to hear. I'm gonna be chewing on that in the back of my mind. Sarah, what's the third book you love?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

The third book is Tagada by Guy Gavriel Kay. Before a few years ago, fantasy was my go to place. You know, made up worlds and epic battles was always a lot of fun. And then when caring became my full time job, I couldn't do it. I couldn't hold the stories and I just didn't want. I wanted the comfort and the 100% certainty of knowing there was going to be a happy ending, nobody important was going to die, which is when I switched to romance. But when I was thinking about this, I wanted to make sure that I included fantasy because fantasy has been my first love and for many, many years that was nearly all I'd read would be fantasy. So Tigana is just my favourite. It technically doesn't fit in terms of I didn't read it when I was a teenager or it child to a teenager, but it's my favourite and I looked at the other ones that I have still here and went no, I want to read Tigana again because it is just, it is such a lush world and Guy Gabrielle Kay writes such beautifully immersive stories about language and music and it's actually my last book because I was like, I'm going to finish with this lush, immersive world, not realising when I made a list of the months and worked out a book for each month that I think by the time I get to the end, it will be a much deeper read than I was expecting.

[Anne Bogle]

I love that you are making the rules for your own challenge.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Making them up as I go along.

[Anne Bogle]

What are you looking forward to in your reread of this one?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I'm not sure now. I thought it was just going to be a lovely place to end the reading challenge because it's thicker and a bit denser than a lot of the other books that I'd originally picked or that I'd picked. And now I don't know. Now I'm not sure what it's going to give me because I've got so much out of the other books that I've read so far that I'm really actually looking forward to it. I'm quite excited.

[Anne Bogle]

I'm excited for you, Sarah. Tell me about a book that wasn't right for you. I want our listeners to get to hear. And also, as we're exploring books that maybe interesting, illuminating. For your challenge, I need to know what doesn't work.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

A book that didn't work, which isn't on this challenge was Never Let Me Go by Kazuku Ishiguro. And I picked it up because so many people talk about how it's a fabulous book with wonderful writing and it is. But the thing I couldn't get past was the. I'm gonna say the tense and the. The horror of what goes on in that book. And as you. As the dawning realization of what is happening to those. The characters. It was a book I very nearly didn't finish. And I only did because I needed to see if it had a happy ending, which kind of doesn't, so.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh, I hate the idea of reading that. Holding out hope. I don't think we're spoiling anything. Are we spoiling anything?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I'm trying not to. So. Yeah. And it is a fabulous book. It's just so. Not for me. It kind of doesn't pair with Winnie the Pooh at all, so.

[Anne Bogle]

No, no, I can see that. Well, they're both British. That's all I got.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yeah. Kind of set in the countryside.

[Anne Bogle]

That's true.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I've read horror, but the horror in that book, I still have nightmares about it and I read it years ago.

[Anne Bogle]

Not for you. Good to know. Sarah, what have you been reading? Lately.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

So for February's challenge, I've read the Love Hypothesis, which is Ali Hazelwood's that started life as a Star wars fan fiction. And I was a big Star wars nerd when I was a teenager, which perhaps sounds weird, but that is what it is. And I paired that with Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which was the first book at least I read, that was set in the Star wars universe but wasn't a film. So they were kind of an easy, easy pairing, easy books to go together because they were both Star wars and I thought that they would be an interesting read. And of course they are absolutely nothing alike. One is contemporary romance, the other is very much a Star wars book. So that pairing perhaps was not quite as successful, but I'm still learning things. And it was interesting to see just how different they were, given that they were the characters in the Love Hypothesis were inspired by Star wars characters.

[Anne Bogle]

It sounds like a fun pairing for that reason.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yeah.

[Anne Bogle]

Even if perhaps you didn't observe the things that you thought you might, I'm glad to hear that it was still worthwhile.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely worthwhile. I think the thing I took away from them is that books really have changed over. The way we write books has changed over, you know, my lifetime. What was contemporary when I bought it as a teenager and what is contemporary now? The styles are very, very different and that's, you know, I guess a thing I knew. But it was interesting to see.

[Anne Bogle]

Uh huh. It's a really notice. So it sounds like you're reading one challenge pairing a month.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yes.

[Anne Bogle]

What are some of the books you intend to read for the remainder of your challenge?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Jane Eyre 84 Charing Crossroad by Helen Hampf, the Outsiders by S.E. hinton and the Secret Garden by Frances Hodgeson Burnett. How to make an American Quilt by Whitney Otto and then Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kaye. Earlier in the challenge, I read Anne of Green Gables, which just for so many years was my life. And we've been to Prince Edward island when we were living in the US Because I loved Anne of Green Gables so much and it's beautiful. And one of the things about Anne of Green Gables that I've always loved, apart from the beautiful friendships and the way that Marilla and Matthew just embrace Anne, even as a child I adored. But the other thing about those books is the sense of place and how you feel like you're on Prince Edward island and it feels like a magical place. And so it made sense to me to pair that with Wild Places by Robert Macfarlane which different continent, very different writing and very different places, but is also about place and the importance of place. And I knew that that's another thing that I just, I just love, I love those books that where you feel like you're living wherever it is that you happen to be reading about and Wild Places is so inspiring and you just want to go and be and they're expansive and beautiful and wild. So to me that was a good idea and it worked really well. It's been a great pairing because it did. It made me think about place and if I'm thinking about reading, I know how much place means to me when I'm looking at what I'm reading.

[Anne Bogle]

That is an inspired pairing. Thank you for sharing it with us. Now what we are going to do today is explore some potential picks for some of the books remaining in your challenge. Anything you want me to know? Any requests?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Maybe? No Horror.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay, so I've noticed that you have some fiction pairings, some nonfiction pairings. How are you deciding?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It's a guess. Like all of this part of pairing the newer reads with the older reads is because as a kid I guess like most kids I read only fiction. But recently I'm reading nearly half nonfiction and I wanted to make sure that if I was spending a year thinking about books, I wanted there to be some nonfiction which represents what I currently read more regularly.

[Anne Bogle]

Is this a good time to remind everyone that I don't know what we're going to talk about when I sit down? And now I'm thinking that we're looking not so much for books that are read alikes. You know that you're not looking for a grown up version of the Secret Garden. You want a book where the ideas in the Secret Garden and the ideas and whatever you choose to pair with it can really draw some interesting thought provoking connections in your brain that you can be pondering all year long?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. What would you add to that?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I wouldn't. I think that's kind of at the heart of where I am with my challenge, that I want to think about what I'm reading, I want to read deeper. And yeah, I want to really think about it. So books that make me stop and think, that make me look for themes or look at an older book in a new way is actually what I'm loving about my challenge.

[Anne Bogle]

Now you also mentioned in your submission that, and please correct me if I get it wrong that you weren't as familiar with some new books and you were interested in reading new books. I'm also noticing that you either seem to be or especially love books that have already proven to have stood the test of time. Would you tell me more about navigating that factor?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

My old list, the books that started me thinking about this is all the books I read up until I was 18, apart from Tigana, which I was a little bit older. But these were the books that I. As I say, I have literally carried these books around the world with me. But the newer books, I wanted something different, and I paired them with the initial books I've paired with rereads because I didn't have any idea of how to find in all the books out there. Finding something that's kind of a match is hard, which is why I set my submission in, because I'd love to read books that are new to me that also fit these guidelines, but I've got no idea how to find them.

[Anne Bogle]

All right, let's do this. This Friday from Disney, the musical movie event of the year arrives in theaters.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

My name is Snow White.

[Anne Bogle]

Flawless, exquisite.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Get tickets now.

[Anne Bogle]

Snow White will have you on your feet. I think that's a wonderful idea. And cheering for more.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I was thinking the same thing.

[Anne Bogle]

Experience the magical story.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Magic mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest one of all? Snow White.

[Anne Bogle]

Disney.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Snow White.

[Anne Bogle]

Only in theaters Friday. Rated pg. Parental guidance Suggested tickets on sale now. Imagine what's possible when learning doesn't get in the way of life at Capella University. Our game changing flexpath learning format lets you set your own deadline so you can learn at a time and pace that works for you. It's an education you can tailor to. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to pursue your professional goals. Instead, enjoy learning your way and earn your degree without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu. can we start with 84 Charing Crossroad?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. This book makes me happy. Much like with Winnie the Pooh, somebody says, do you know 84 Charing Crossroad? And I think, have I ever. It just makes me smile so big. I think part of of the reason is that for those who haven't read this book, it's a slim little volume about. Actually, Sarah, would you like to do the honors?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It's a series of letters between a bookseller in England at 84 Charing Cross Road and a lady who I think from memory is in New York. And I don't remember why they start writing to each other.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, she Needs a book. She's writing for a book, and I don't remember why she needs the book. Is she a journalist? It hasn't been that long since I reread this myself, but, yeah, they strike up a correspondence and a friendship. And I don't know what your experience was reading this book, but when I read it for the first time, I was hitting up the Google going, this is too perfect. This is nonfiction. Right? Because I'm not convinced reading these letters that are too good. It is. It's nonfiction. The first thing I need to ask is, have you read her other work? I just read the Duchess of Bloomsbury street for the first time in the past couple years. I don't know what I'd been waiting for. It was such a delight. Have you read that one yet?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I haven't read anything else by her.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. I don't know how this fits in. George Hatling, same author, but you haven't read this book yet. The Duchess of Bloomsbury street is a sequel of sorts, if we can say that about a nonfiction book. In 84 Charing Cross Road, they cement the friendship. After the Duchess of Bloomsbury Street, Helen Hamp finally has money. And the reason is that 84 Charing Cross Road has sold so well that she can now afford to go to the UK to visit the friends she made through these letters that she wrote for many years. And she moves into a hotel. I mean, she doesn't move in. She's just a tourist. But she ends up extending her stay several times at her hotel on Bloomsbury Street. And somebody makes a crack about how, like, well, aren't you just the duchess? Like, everybody knows your name, welcomes you in, makes you snacks, so that's where it gets the title. But she is living her best life, meeting wonderful people, seeing amazing sights, and it's a joy. I think you would enjoy it.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

That sounds fabulous.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. And I don't say that lightly. I do feel like nonfiction isn't. It's easier to be confident about the recommendation. I feel like it's easier to know how a nonfiction book will land than a novel, especially when you've read something so similar already, and yet not so similar that you won't experience. The Duchess of Bloomsbury street is an entirely different story. So please begin. You know what? You can decide where to begin. I just want to make sure that's on your radar. But also, there is. I feel like we need to go epistolary. Yep, there's going to be a book in this year's Modern Mrs. Darcy Summer Reading guide, or at least I think there is. It's epistolary. It comes out late April. Some of you booksellers may already know what I'm talking about. I love this for you. Keep an eye out. But I want to talk about the works of Kim Fae. She's written Love and Saffron and Kate and Frida. Do you know either of these books, Sarah? No, they're both Epistolary. Love and Saffron just came out a few years ago since the Pandemic. It's set in the 1960s. I think the subtitle is something like a novel of friendship, food and love. And it begins very similar to 84 Charing Crossroad. There's an LA based. You know, I think she's just a fan, not a writer herself, but she writes a fan letter to a journalist in Washington State and the Pacific Northwest in the US to her favorite food columnist writer and says, hey, thanks for your column. I loved it. By the way, here's a packet of saffron and a recipe. Your column made me think that you may enjoy this. And the journalist writes back and a lasting friendship is born. And they become pen friends and exchange letters over the years that first are all about food, then gradually become about books and then get very in depth with their personal lives as well. Hard things happen in the women's lives, but it's so gentle and feel good. I feel like it's written for us book lovers and those who can appreciate a long term, deeply meaning friendship unfolding one letter at a time. She has a newer book that feels even more akin to 84 Charing Crossroad because it begins when in a very similar way to the Helene Hampff novel, let me think, it's called Kate and Frida. Frida is the California born aspiring war correspondent who is now based in Paris. And she writes to her favorite Seattle area bookstore. Actually, you know what? I think she's writing to a variety of bookstores because she's trying them all out. She describes herself as a card carrying bookstore addict. At one point in the book she wants to try as many as she can, but she writes to request a specific book to. It's based on the Elliott Bay bookstore, if any listeners know that. I'm sure you do. She writes to request a book and because of the tone of her letter and what she's asking for, whoever opens the mail at this bookstore says, hey Kate, you're 20 something. You've got that same youthful energy. You answer Frida, there's a Loose connection to Love and Saffron for readers who enjoyed that book. But it doesn't matter a tiny bit if you don't know. Or pick that up and. And Kate writes back, recommends a few books, sends Frida the one she asked for, and a friendship is born. And so, at the leisurely speed of international airmail, their conversations start about their favorite books. And if you want ideas for what to read next, this is an excellent book to get lots of ideas. And just like In Love and Saffron, pretty soon they're talking about family and love and career ambitions and what it means to be human and all that good stuff. This is set in the early 90s, which wasn't that long ago. And yet this almost felt like historical fiction, which was lots of fun and also made me feel very old all at the same time. How do either of these sound to you?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

They sound perfect. Both. Either. I'll probably read them both.

[Anne Bogle]

I'm happy to hear it. They're not long. I feel like they go pretty quickly, if that makes any difference to you. For another nonfiction idea, but different than Helene Hampt style, I'm also wondering about an adjacent work called the Notebook, A History of Thinking on Paper. It came out in the fall in the US And I mean, this is what it is. It's a wide ranging history of the blank notebook. It's written by Roland Allen. And I mean, he starts by talking about marketing. I think the brand is field notes. He says, okay, you know, hey, there are these people who want to make a new office product that's going to sell really well and make them some money. They decide on the Notebook. Here's how. So I thought that was interesting. I rem it might have been the moleskin, actually, but I remembered when this product hit shelves, I felt like I was the target audience. And to read the flip side of that story, not the consumer side, but the creator side, was very interesting. But from there he launches into, like, what's the appeal? When they launched this in the, I think it was late 90s, early 2000s, they were establishing themselves as being in a long tradition of notebook writing. So in the book, he gives us glimpses into the notebooks of all these people through history, like Isaac Newton and Agatha Christie, to everyday workers like journalists and police officers and deep thinkers who use this, you know, simple little tool to develop big, big ideas. So he talks about how the notebook has become a really powerful and like, almost tacitly acknowledged tool for creativity. And he also talks a little bit about ways you can use it to change the way you think. Oh, I'm thinking of that. That quote you shared from the nonfiction Winnie the Pooh, companion from the Beauty of everyday things. What was it?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Our way of thinking changes our way of seeing.

[Anne Bogle]

Yeah. That feels in the same universe.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely. That sounds perfect.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. I'm not sure if it would be a step or two too far, but it's your challenge. You get to decide. Okay. Can we do. Ooh. You know, I don't know that I have a good book for the outsiders, but I have a lot of ideas. How are you thinking about this one? This. I mean, this seems hard to me. Is this hard for you?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Oh, absolutely. Hence why I wrote to you. When in doubt, ask the expert.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, I would like to validate that this does not seem easy because, I mean, it's a unique book and yet you also only need a Jason. Yep, we're not looking for read alikes. So when I think the Outsiders, I think a novel of a particular time and place. Adolescence, friendship, grief, class, tension. What would you add to that, stew pot?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

The beauty of poetry and sunrise. Because that scene is actually the one I remember the most.

[Anne Bogle]

Ooh. Okay, I don't have the sunrise for you, but the poetry. I was wondering about the contemporary book by Tiffany D. Jackson. It's a young adult novel called Let me Hear a Rhyme. Do you know this book at all? I've talked about it on the podcast, but not for a long time.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

No, I don't know it.

[Anne Bogle]

This is so fun. And if you're an audiobook listener, because of the nature of the content, it's so good in that format. I love Tiffany Jackson. She writes novels that are really plotty, like, they're easy to read. You want to know what's happening next? You're invested in the characters, but then you finish them. Well, I finish them and I find myself just thinking about it, like, why did she make that choice? Did it have to be that way? What happened to those characters? Oh, that poor person. Oh, I can't believe. But what about and who and how would that work? You know, I think that's really a sign of a well written book if my mind is snagged on it and wants to keep thinking about it. This story starts with a tragedy when an older teen is murdered. The group of friends in this story is in Brooklyn. This teen's name is Steph, and he was an aspiring rapper. And after his death, he's left behind this incredible scene. I think it's a whole album. And his friends Qaadir and Gerald, they want to give him the legacy he deserves. So they enlist his sister's help and they take the tracks and they come up with a plan to release them under a new rapper's name, which I think is pretty great. They're going to call him the Architect but they don't want anyone to know that he is gone because they're afraid that he can't get signed and his music won't get released if the producer knows there won't be any more of it. But they release these tracks, they catch the attention of a big time producer and then they have to figure out how to keep their story straight and how to keep things moving and how not to let the producer into. Not to let him find out the truth. But that's not the only secret being kept in this novel. So in this story you've got the like class and economic tension. You've got friendship, you've got adolescents, you've got really hard things. You've also got a page turning puzzle which is definitely different from the out. I mean this is different from the Outsiders in many, many ways. We don't even have to list them but you know, different place, different setting, different character group, different aims. But I wonder if it has some of those themes that spoke to you then and maybe we'll speak to you in a different way here. I also have to say I found the ending really satisfying. It's just a big chef's kiss moment. When that happens in any novel that.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Sounds perfect, I'll take it.

[Anne Bogle]

You know, as I started thinking about the tone of the Outsiders, I really wondered about taking this in an altogether different, different direction. My mind went to like a Ruman Alam leave the world behind. I think more that than entitlement. He writes about class tension in really interesting ways. He's not so big on the friendship and adolescence, but that could be interesting. Definitely darker also. Kiley Reid's Come and Get It. I love that book set at the University of Arkansas that does have all those elements. The friendship, the class tension, the adolescence, grief, people dealing with hard things and complicated situations. Not by any means are read alike but really interesting and intricate and again darker also. Jason Reynolds, if you've not read him especially I think long way down. But he writes about adolescence and friendship and the thorniness of the big and the small struggles in life so well. Oh gosh, Jacqueline Woodson. We can't leave out Jacqueline Woodson. We could go nonfiction with like Brown Girl Dreaming or also an adult novel like Another Brooklyn.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I have no idea. They all sound like they would work so well for my challenge and I'm just wondering if I read them all, really.

[Anne Bogle]

I'm getting the sense that you enjoy the process of wondering what it could be like to read it as part of your challenge and.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogle]

And just kind of consider what might come up when they're read side by side.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Yeah.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. Can we end with the Secret Garden?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogle]

What does the Secret Garden mean to you? What do you think of? I mean, I was thinking about both that blossoming sense of wonder that begins gradually but then just like soaks the whole book with that, that, that air of like wide eyed possibility. But also you've got a couple of introverted misfits who are so much happier when they find each other. I think those are my two polls.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

When I think about the Secret Garden, I think about the garden. So the place, the. And the magic of it and the wonder and then the friendship between the children. So it'll be interesting because I had. This is another one I haven't reread in many, many years.

[Anne Bogle]

But I'm thinking you must be looking forward to it or you wouldn't have picked it.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Oh, absolutely.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay, let's start by going old. You might have actually already read Elizabeth von Arnhem, but have you read the Enchanted April?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

No.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay. Yay for me. We talked about the old books versus new book question. This book is old. It's a hundred years old. There's no mistaking it for a new book. And yet there's so much that feels like it could happen today if you just tweak the details gently. Because it's about four women who are just feeling unimpressed, if not flat worn down by their like dreary life. Like they're just. I want to say they're over it, but that sounds too flippant. They need a change. They are cosmically tired. So it begins when one of these four women reads an advertisement in I believe in newspaper, which is not how we would find out about a potential escape today. But she sees this ad for a small, perhaps tumble down medieval castle that is pitched at those who appreciate wisteria and sunshine. And I just want to raise my hand real big. That sounds great. And she starts dreaming about. I mean, here she is in like dreary, dripping Britain and thinks, yeah, like, get me out of here. Like, I want to go appreciate wisteria and sunshine in a castle in. Oh gosh, I think it's in Italy. Let's say definitively it's in Italy. And I hope I'm not wrong. So she recruits a. A friend to be her partner in travel. They're going to go away for a month and these two friends seek out two strangers so they can have a party of four women. One is young, one is old, two are somewhere in the middle. So they go to this Italian castle and they spend the month finding out what it's like to live in wisteria and sunshine and what it's like to have a fresh view on life. And here we go again, back to the beauty of everyday things. Our way of thinking changes our way of seeing. Here it might be more like our way of seeing changes our way of thinking. But they get to spend time together and find out what they have in common and find out that they're all unhappy with the life that they've just kind of slid into. And they get to come into their own. I don't think it's a spoiler to tell you that in this Italian castle in like 1922, if that sounds good, she has another book called Elizabeth and Her German Garden with a different plot but similar vibe. How does that sound?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

You had me at cosmically tired and escaping to Italy.

[Anne Bogle]

I think I hooked myself with that line too. I might need to reread this.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Definitely going on the list. And that sounds like the perfect pairing.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, I'm glad that you get a new to you book that has also been around for a little while now. When I heard the Secret Garden, my brain starts scanning for beautiful gardens I've read about in literature. And one of the places my mind lit was Kate Morton's novel the Forgotten Garden. Have you read anything by her?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I have. I've read, I'm pretty sure everything by Kate Morton. Okay, fabulous writer.

[Anne Bogle]

Is there anything interesting in that pairing? I'm not asking you to reread, but now here at the end, I'm just. I'm just. Just wondering if I've been thinking about this.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Right, no, that I hadn't thought about the Kate Morton book. And that would actually be a very interesting pairing because in my brain when I'm remembering it, there are some similarities that would make for interesting reading. But I also want to read the Enchanted April. So maybe I'll read two.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, you only need one. But if you wanted to try something else new, I do wonder about. Barbara Kingsolver has a novel that's not set in the garden. It's set in southern Appalachia. It's called Prodigal Summer and it came out, I want to say, about 10 years ago. Is this one, you know?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

No, not at all.

[Anne Bogle]

Okay, again, not a read alike, but maybe an interesting companion to the Secret Garden. This follows three couples over the course of a single summer that turns out to be life changing for all of them. There's a wildlife biologist who's come back to her home county to work. There's a widowed farmer's wife who is at odds with her husband's family. And there's a pair of feuding neighbors. And when I think about my reading experience with this book, I just think of the lushness of the descriptions of the natural world and in many cases the work that these characters are doing in the landscape that they find themselves in for this one summer. Does that hold any interest for you?

[Sarah Swarbrick]

It would definitely be an interesting, interesting pairing given that when I was thinking about it, I was thinking, you know, Europe or England and Gardens. But to go to the US might be a very interesting experience. And I've not read any Barbara Kinsolver, so it might be a good place to start.

[Anne Bogle]

It could be. But I was also wondering about James Herriot if you have not read his works yet.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I have read James Harriot, not for many years as well, but yeah, I'm.

[Anne Bogle]

Glad to hear that. I thought those two books celebrated like the wonder of nature in very different ways.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I like the idea of prodigal summer, I must admit.

[Anne Bogle]

Well, you can report back and let me know where you landed on your selections because I would love to hear where your 53rd year and where this challenge that you're doing in advance of your 53rd birthday. Where it takes you. Sarah, thank you so much for being so generous to share your deeply personal challenge with us here with your fellow readers. We are grateful.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Thank you for giving me the chance. It's always good to talk about books.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh gosh, it's always good. And I'm interested to hear how you're feeling and what you're thinking after talking it through and surveying some possible options.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

I have no idea because pretty much every book you've suggested I can see being an amazing read, limiting myself to one. I suspect I'm going to read very many off the list, but finding one to pair. I suspect I'll read love and saffron first because 84 Chariton crossroad is coming up. But I will probably also read the Duchess of Bloomsbury street because that just sounds too perfect not to.

[Anne Bogle]

Oh well, I'm so excited to hear what you think. Thank you so much for talking books with me today. I really enjoyed it.

[Sarah Swarbrick]

Thank you so much for having me on.

[Anne Bogle]

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sarah and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about today at what Should I read next podcast.com readers things are moving fast these days in the social media world, so the best way to make sure you stay connected is by signing up for our newsletter. We send out quick updates with each new episode and also other bookish news and happenings from what Should I read next HQ. Sign up at what should I read next podcast.com newsletter. Make sure you're following along or subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast app and downloading each episode, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, wherever you listen. That's great. Downloading our episode each week, even if you don't listen right away, is such a big concrete help to us, and it gives important data to our network that helps our show make it. Thanks so much for taking a moment to check in and subscribe or follow if you're not yet doing that. It's also a big help if you share a favorite episode with a friend. Word of mouth is the best way for a podcast to remain sustainable. Telling the other readers in your life about our podcast is a quick and easy act of bookish hospitality. Thanks to the people who make this show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Will Bogle, Holly Wokoczewski, and Studio D Podcast Productions. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.