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- [00:09]
Ann Vogel
Hey readers, I'm Ann Vogel and this is what should I read next? Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I read next? We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. This week we're talking all things summer reading with one special guest who is particularly well qualified to go behind the scenes of our 2025 Summer Reading Guide with me, readers. I use the Internet for all sorts of shopping, booking, travel, reading the news, keeping in touch with friends, and of course, I use it a lot for work. But lately I've been noticing more and more ads for services or products through the sites I visit that are just way off base. I mean, look, sometimes they're interesting, but pretty often I get served ads that just are not for me. Like lately I've gotten so many ads for enormous trucks that I cannot ever see myself buying. Definitely they're not the vehicles I need or want for my lifestyle. If you're in charge of ad spend for your B2B marketing effort, you know how important it is to make sure your ads are reaching the right audience. That's where LinkedIn Ads comes in. LinkedIn has a network of over 1 billion professionals and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. With LinkedIn you can set up your marketing to target buyers by a range of criteria, from job title and industry to skills or even company revenue. You'll feel good knowing that all the professionals you need to reach are in one place. Check out LinkedIn ads if you are ready to stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollars credit on your next campaign, so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com readnext that's LinkedIn.com readnext terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads readers when summer comes and temperatures rise, I often find myself shopping for new clothes to fill the gaps in my wardrobe. Quince is one brand that I trust for perfect seasonal pieces. Their clothes are timeless, lightweight and make my closet feel pulled together. They have great products that make the easy shift from season to season, like the Tencel Camp shirt that I'm pairing with jeans right now, but will work just as well with shorts, which it starts to get really hot out. I love my Quint's dresses and tops, but they also make luxe swimwear and accessories like their Italian leather platform sandals. Quince makes it easy to keep to your budget too Everything they make is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. Quince knows you want quality products from premium fabrics and finishes. That's why they've built partnerships with artisans and factories that give you luxury without the markup. Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince. Go to quince.com readnext for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com readnext to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com readnext William, welcome to the show.
- [03:07]
Will Bogle
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here, especially talking summer reading readers.
- [03:11]
Ann Vogel
My husband, Will Bogle is here to discuss this year's summer reading guide. And if you've been listening for a long time, you know the what should I read Next/modern Mrs. Darcy Lore. If this is your first episode, this is need to know information. But it was actually Will's idea to create the summer reading guide back in like 2011 or 2012. Our first one came out in 2012, but I did this like, lead magnet thing which was like moderately successful and not that fun. And I mean, Will, do you remember our conversation two houses ago in our dining room late at night?
- [03:45]
Will Bogle
I don't remember the. You said moderately successful and not that fun. That's not what I remember. But I might be thinking a couple years in because it really became.
- [03:54]
Ann Vogel
No, I'm not talking about the summer reading guide. I'm talking about the original thing that Shall Not Be named that just wasn't that good.
- [03:59]
Will Bogle
No, I do remember that. Yes.
- [04:01]
Ann Vogel
But you were like, you know what you should do. And now here we are on version 14.
- [04:07]
Will Bogle
I would like to say, you say all the time that we don't say should on the show called what Should I Read Next? I'm not sure.
- [04:13]
Ann Vogel
And I just attributed that.
- [04:14]
Will Bogle
I'm not sure that I said what you should do.
- [04:18]
Ann Vogel
I don't know. I know you. I think you.
- [04:19]
Will Bogle
Yeah, I might have. But. But I was right, apparently, because this is now year 14. Is that right?
- [04:27]
Ann Vogel
Yeah.
- [04:28]
Will Bogle
So this is definitely something that has, has gone from something that was not that fun and only moderately successful or whatever to something that not only do you really enjoy, but. But it seems like our whole team loves putting it together. The audience, listeners really are always clamoring for it. We actually start planning this months in advance, partly because it takes a lot of work and partly because Lee knows when people will start asking. So we have a deadline in the spring, where we've got to have enough information that we're ready to announce it before Lee starts getting like, hey, are you guys doing that again? Kind of inquiries.
- [05:03]
Ann Vogel
That's true. No matter what we're planning behind the scenes at Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ, one of our big questions is always, what are people going to ask us? And how can we answer that before. Before they even articulate that they want to. No, we want to have answers ready for you, is what I'm saying. And you'll always want to know when the summer reading guide is coming. And even all these years later, William, you're always willing to stand at my giant post it note on the wall and help me talk through which books go in which categories and decide between two I'm thinking about including. And if y' all could hear the number of times I'll. I'll say in this household, hey, would you come verbally process something with me? And then I talk my way to an answer.
- [05:46]
Will Bogle
That is great framing, because a lot of times I only have to stand there. You just process it all.
- [05:52]
Ann Vogel
But you do such a good job of it.
- [05:54]
Will Bogle
A lot of times, especially, actually, we'll get into this year and sort of what's different this year and all. But a lot of times you're already just so far ahead that I'm like, well, what if you move this and whatever? And you're like, no, no, no, no. I've honed it down. I just have this one question, you know, scope creep. Scope creep.
- [06:11]
Ann Vogel
Yeah, right. We don't need to reinvent everything. Help me decide between these two books. But sometimes you say, no, hear me out. And I do. And then we end up changing things. But before we get any further, I want to say that since 2011 and 2012, our business has changed and grown and evolved, and our team has a ton of. But also, when we created our first summer reading guide, it's not like we invented the concept, but the summer reading guide landscape was so different than it is now. And that really forces our team, I think, led by me, I'll own that. To really ask ourselves, is what we're making valuable? Like, how is it different? What sets us apart? If so many people are making reading guides for this time of year, what are we really offering? But we keep doing it. I mean, year by year. We keep deciding every year that we're going to do it for another year because we think we do a great job. And I think 2025 is really special. I don't think it's that different from 2024, do you slight evolution? Not like a huge one?
- [07:18]
Will Bogle
No, I think it's pretty similar. There are of course, only so many ways that you can say, here's a book that I'm looking forward to sharing with you all and a little description about it. This is a lot of what we do on the blog when we write book lists for the blog. So as a simple concept, here are the books that are coming that I've read. I guess this is a little different because you've read all of these books, which is not always true in spring and fall. But also there's only so many things you can do differently. We found a few ways to make it fun and interesting.
- [07:52]
Ann Vogel
This year though, we always do something a little different every year. The features are different. This year some of the features are expanded. The page length is about the same as 2024. The books, of course, are all different and they all have 2025 pub dates. We'll get more to that. Well, as we go along today. But will, you're here so we can talk about the summer reading guide for 2025. Also, what you read for the summer reading guide, how it all came together, how I chose the books in this year's guide, and lots more details we're going to hit upon along the way.
- [08:25]
Will Bogle
Okay, where should we start?
- [08:27]
Ann Vogel
I think with this year's theme.
- [08:28]
Will Bogle
We got to start with the theme.
- [08:29]
Ann Vogel
Okay.
- [08:30]
Will Bogle
Which is probably where we started. I think kind of one of the first thoughts we had is overall for the concept, like what are we bringing. When we say do we do things a little bit differently? This informs sort of both what it looks like, but also some of the features and just even the photography we do. Like all of that stuff's kind of bound up in, like how are we packaging all of this? We've not always done themes, though. How long have we been doing a theme?
- [08:54]
Ann Vogel
We first did a magazine style guide in 2017. 2018, you know, it might have been 2019. I know this cause I was just looking at the category less year, folks. We'll get to that. And that wasn't magazine style. So I think that means 2019 was our first year of a magazine style guide, which got a theme because that needed photos. But it was a gentle summary. Can I keep saying magazine kind of idea? But 2020, we wanted to do the magazine again and then started leaning into it more as the years went by. 2023, we really went big with a literary festival team. 2024, we thought we might not be able to Top because we did book camp, like summer camp, but for grown up readers. And it was so fun. We had a blast with the features and the photography, which I take every year. And merch with the Bookcamp merch. You can still get a Bookcamp sweatshirt in our shop. And I really thought, well, maybe now it's just the Bookcamp summer reading guide forever and ever. But I think we were talking our way to a theme, and I don't remember what the idea we had as a team, but someone said, oh, and one of the ideas we could explore for a category is road trip. And somebody was like, wait, hang on. I think that's the whole theme right there. Road trip. So this year's theme is road trip. And we had a lot, a lot of fun with that. And Will, you pointed out to me that it made a lot of sense to do a road trip for reasons that go back to the origin of what should I read next? Do you want to share about that?
- [10:37]
Will Bogle
The idea did not originate on a road trip. We do a lot of sort of expansive thinking. You got that windshield time and nothing to do and whatever. So we do a lot of kind of what if talking. You wrote a blog post one time about us sitting in the car, and I think I had pitched you the idea of buying a farm. Was the.
- [10:58]
Ann Vogel
I think that was the dreams and schemes, you know, I love it.
- [11:00]
Will Bogle
Yeah, that was the particular conversation that you wrote about. But. But we do this all the time. I don't think the idea for the podcast came about in a road trip, but we did test it out for the first time on our way home. Four kids in the back of the car. We were driving through Pennsylvania at the end of a trip. And of course, you know, only so much you can.
- [11:20]
Ann Vogel
We were in the beautiful Allegheny.
- [11:22]
Will Bogle
It was nice in October, so it was, yeah, 10 hours or whatever in the car. And you said, hey, what do you think if we just tried this out right now and set up your phone in between us and recorded it and we got done and went, oh, I think that works. I think this is a thing that is actually a thing. Right. We have lots of ideas, but making them a thing that someone would be interested in is not always possible. Right. And got done with it and was like, oh, this conversation. This is something people want to hear. And here we are going on 10 years later.
- [11:54]
Ann Vogel
Yeah, it's wild to me now, looking back, how fast that turnaround was. We just did that proof of concept in the car like mid October 2015, and the first episode Launched on. Oh, I can't believe I can't remember this off the top of my head. January 10th, January 12th. But it was just that second Tuesday in January 2016, like, three months.
- [12:18]
Will Bogle
And at that point, we had. You'd already recorded multiple episodes. It was not just like you did one for that.
- [12:22]
Ann Vogel
I mean, like, three. There weren't a ton.
- [12:24]
Will Bogle
Yeah. But we were rolling into the holidays and the new year, and you already had. I mean. Yeah, it went. It went quick. So. So the road trip, you know, jumped out at me.
- [12:32]
Ann Vogel
Yeah. All of which to say we have a fondness.
- [12:34]
Will Bogle
We have fondness. Road trips. And. And. And that. That jumped out at me as. As sort of a. A little bit of a connection when we got talking about it, because, you know, what do you do on. On a road trip? Yeah, we occasionally listen to audiobooks, but, you know, with. With teenagers in the car and, like, you know, not everybody wants to listen to the same thing. And it's. It's. Ann listens at a much faster speed than I do. And, you know, so. So finding the right book and the right speed and all that stuff is. Is a challenge. But we thought road trip could be a lot of fun. And. And honestly, you know, as a team, I think we're really good at ideas and not always at nailing them down. Like, we want to do this, but both book camp, we want to do everything. We just. We like having the options. Right. So we want to do all of them. But book camp was just. Everybody immediately was like, oh, slam dunk. That's the one we're doing. And we didn't even, like, talk about more. I think this year we had a couple of ideas, but road trip really quickly came to the front as, like, this. This will be a lot of. A lot of fun.
- [13:29]
Ann Vogel
You know, the theme that was really the other top contender. We had compelling reasons.
- [13:33]
Will Bogle
I was going to say, we have compelling reasons for.
- [13:35]
Ann Vogel
No, no, no, no. We had compelling reasons to save for next year. So that helped us decide. And I just heard myself say I have a fondness for road trips. And that compels me to reassure readers. You don't have to actually want to put your body in a motor vehicle that is moving someplace for many hours at a time to enjoy this year's summer reading guide. I don't actually love road trips in real life. I don't like to be stuck.
- [14:00]
Will Bogle
I was going to say this is not actually. You have a fondness for road trips?
- [14:04]
Ann Vogel
Well, like, in my imagination, you like going places. In my vicarious Travel. I absolutely do.
- [14:10]
Will Bogle
You just don't like the going part of going places.
- [14:13]
Ann Vogel
Yeah, yeah, I don't so much, but that's fine. Like, I can still love this sense. I mean, clearly you can hear in my voice that it won me over. And I had to remind myself that, like, actually, do I want to be in that car for 11 hours? I do not. But I want to read about it and I want to dream about it, and I want to bring it to Life for our 2025 Summer Reading Guide. So we're going on a road trip, and we kept it pretty literal in our layouts. In the guide, we imagine going places in motor vehicles. But then in some of the guide categories, I explored more like journeys and adventures and was a little looser with that interpretation. But we'll actually. Let's talk about that now. So when we started talking about the road trip idea, we wanted to carry it out like we did with Bookcamp last year. So in this year's summer reading guide, you'll see that we have some pit stops throughout. This is just a fun little way that we incorporated backlist books because the 35 main selections in the guide are all published between, oh, I think it's April 8th and August 5th. All new for 2025. But backlist is great in the summer also and tends to have much shorter wait times at your local library. Now, one of the advantages of getting the guide is on May 15, you're going to be able to put in your hold requests for those books coming out later in the summer that are not available yet. And you're going to be near the top of the the list. But sometimes you want to read something right now. And so we have these pit stops throughout the guide that are set in places that kept popping up in the summer reading guide. For example, we have a Texas pit stop because there are several new books set in Texas, and I chose four or five backlist books that I really love set in Texas and highlighted them there. And then for some of these pit stop features, we have a local independent bookstore that myself or someone on our team really loves that they say a few nice words about connected to the pit stop. A couple of pit stops could be anywhere. Like, we have books set on the coast, and we have books that are road trip books, but most of them are actual geographical locations. Also this year, we really built out our awesome on audio feature. This is something that we've done for, I want to say, maybe in 2019. William, do you know, off the top.
- [16:28]
Will Bogle
Of your head, I Think so. Because before that when we were doing them on the website, like we, we only had the categories in the books. Like there, there weren't really other things to go with it because as far as like a page goes, there was just like not a place to put that or whatever. But I think we did, I think.
- [16:45]
Ann Vogel
Audio was the first year we did articles.
- [16:46]
Will Bogle
Yeah, I think we did, did the awesome audio from, from the get go. It makes so much sense for, for summer, I mean to, to go along with your road trip idea. Right. It is just a great time of year to have the audiobooks handy. And so matching that with the new titles made a lot of sense.
- [17:04]
Ann Vogel
Well, that was in response to a question we get so often from readers, which is, hey, I see these books which are particularly good on audio. And I can't answer that question for all the books because for those August releases, the audiobook probably isn't finished yet. But I listen to anything I can get my hands on that's already published or that I'm able to get early access to to listen and tell you what is great on audio. So this year I'm able to do that for new for 2025. But also I went through all our past summer reading guides going back to 2012, looking for books that featured road trips but also metaphorical or practical. Practical, geographical, how about journeys? And I was so surprised at how many there were to choose from. So I had already listened to some of those audiobooks. I knew they were fabulous. I listened to the others and we built out awesome on audio to have this book, big backlist section. I think there's 14 or 15 titles that are road trip and journey tales that are awesome on audio and also backlist books. So I'm excited for readers to get their hands on that this year.
- [18:08]
Will Bogle
Yeah, that's always a very popular theme. And I think this year, like you said, building out a little further and reaching back a number of years throughout the summer reading guidance will be a lot of fun for folks.
- [18:19]
Ann Vogel
I hope so. Wait, I think so. I mean, it was a lot of fun for me. If it's half as fun for our readers. Yeah, they're going to love it.
- [18:27]
Will Bogle
All right, well, so audiobooks, we're talking about books, but do you want to talk about the books that are in the guide?
- [18:33]
Ann Vogel
Yes, I want to talk about the books. I'm going to have to restrain myself because unboxing isn't till Thursday. But yeah, I'm ready to talk about the books.
- [18:40]
Will Bogle
Yeah, we don't want to give away. What's in the Summer Reading Guide that'll be out Thursday morning, May 15th. We're doing unboxing twice. So you can join us whether you're a member of the communities or you've got an ala carte. You can join us live for that on the 15th and hear more about what Ann thinks about them beyond what's in the guide. But getting to the 35 titles that are in the Summer Reading Guide is a job, right? I mean, that's a whole process. So not all the books make it. Otherwise we wouldn't really be making anything. Right. You'd just be listing things that.
- [19:15]
Ann Vogel
Books that came out just be listing things. Yeah, but no, I've been reading since November.
- [19:19]
Will Bogle
You've been reading, and I would say I feel, like, more disconnected this year than I've maybe ever have.
- [19:27]
Ann Vogel
That's so interesting.
- [19:29]
Will Bogle
I mean, in past years, like, I've been extremely connected. So, I mean, one of the first few years, when we started doing it, the first couple, you created your own PDF, like, you put it together. I don't know, like, probably using Word or something, you know, like, less mine.
- [19:43]
Ann Vogel
Yeah, I did.
- [19:44]
Will Bogle
I did, but then I started. I started doing them on the. The. On the website, on the blog. And so I was like, every book, every title, you know, like, I was seeing all of it. Now that we're having them design more, somebody else is taking. Like, I'm. I'm not kind of. I'll get to see it at the editing phase. Actually, I have a copy right here next to me because we just got it back fully designed. So I have seen the whole thing at this point.
- [20:10]
Ann Vogel
But it's so pretty.
- [20:12]
Will Bogle
Oh, it's great. Yep. I love it. But. But this year, you were showing me the post it note and you were asking about, like, categories and books and where, what goes where, and I was just like, I just don't even remember seeing any of these books.
- [20:25]
Ann Vogel
Well, that's because it's different now. In our household, there's been so much less visibility to people other than me and whatever I'm reading because things change so much with the pandemic. Like, the potential summer reading guide books used to be literally all over the house. They'd be in the kitchen and the dining room table and by my favorite read chair and on the coffee table and in my office. And now, I think just like a week before the guide comes out, I only have maybe six or seven physical books in the house, and the rest are coming in every day. But beginning in 2020, publishers really started prioritizing digital arcs. And, I mean, if it's on my Kindle, you can't see it. I talk about what I'm reading a fair amount. You know, we'll sit down on the couch and be like, what are you reading? Here's what you know, what are you reading? But it's not the same.
- [21:12]
Will Bogle
That is not as helpful for me. No. Especially because, you know, I'll ask, hey, what are you reading? And in the early spring, you're reading a book every day or two. That answer is constantly changing, and I just can't. I just can't keep up. You know, you tell me a little bit about what it is, and then the next time you're telling me about this book, it's a totally different author, totally different book. And I mix them all up and, you know, I just can't keep track when I'm not seeing the covers. And, you know, like, being able to sort of put a title with a plot with a cover, you know, and keep track of them that way.
- [21:50]
Ann Vogel
But you read a few that I initially thought might be in the summer reading guide. Do you want to tell us about those?
- [21:54]
Will Bogle
So I. I typically do so early on. I'm sure other team members do as well. This was definitely true for us. Like you said, with books flying in the house, I would be seeing them. All right. We're tearing open the mail, and I'm like, okay, but more books? What do we do with these? And a lot based on cover, sometimes based on blurbs. Things would catch my eye that I would give a first pass to. Pretty early. Right? You've got enough books that we probably don't know anything about that you're trying to just quickly get through and say, is this worth reading the whole thing and investing in finding out if this fits in the categories. And this is a book that you're going to love and all that. And so I would take a first pass at the some things and be like, hey, you know what? I think you could take a chance on this.
- [22:35]
Ann Vogel
It is music to my ears when you say, hey, is there anything you want me to read? I'm looking for a book right now.
- [22:42]
Will Bogle
Yep, Yep. And you can say, hey, this is. This is one that's sort of on the bubble. I've not even read it yet, but I'm not even. But I'm not sure if I should spend the time on it. Right. That kind of thing. You know, this, I guess, because of the physical copies, like, has been a little weird that way. But I read a few. A few. I read three I think this year that were contenders I guess, and I.
- [23:03]
Ann Vogel
Liked all of them. Or you've like finished three?
- [23:05]
Will Bogle
No, I'm in a bit of a reading slump this year and I think that's it.
- [23:10]
Ann Vogel
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- [25:33]
Will Bogle
I read the Doorman by Chris Pavone.
- [25:36]
Ann Vogel
I was excited about that one.
- [25:38]
Will Bogle
Yes. So that guy, he's been the guy before. He's been in the guide before. I think I've read every one of his books and he has a loose series of spy novels, and I really enjoy them some more than more than others. But the world is loose enough that there's a little bit of familiarity to it and really easy to jump into them. They're super fast paced and generally well plotted. The reveal makes sense and the payoff is there and all that stuff. This is a total, complete change. This takes place in basically one neighborhood almost entirely in one building in New York. And you're getting multiple points of view. It was much more literary. There definitely was a plot, but there was a whole lot of just sort of interconnected relationships in the building and sort of lots of backstory. And it was just a very different book than what I was expecting for him. I think you told me that going in. I really liked it. The tone was, like I said, definitely different and it was a lot more political than I expected.
- [26:51]
Ann Vogel
When you finished it, my impression was I am going to read this, but I never actually did. Not like I decided against it, but I kept choosing other books. So I haven't read this Chris Pavone yet.
- [27:03]
Will Bogle
I think you will and I think you should. You'll probably enjoy it, especially because, you know, you tend to read more literary than I do in general, and he has kind of gone that direction. And so. Yeah. I'd be curious what you thought about his stab at the New York society literary novel.
- [27:25]
Ann Vogel
Okay. I look forward to our conversations about it.
- [27:29]
Will Bogle
So another one that I read that I think you shoved in my hands was called Heartwood.
- [27:34]
Ann Vogel
Oh, I totally did.
- [27:36]
Will Bogle
Yeah. Had you already read it when you suggested it to me?
- [27:39]
Ann Vogel
I'd already read it.
- [27:40]
Will Bogle
Okay.
- [27:40]
Ann Vogel
I mean, it's a hiker in the woods in Maine.
- [27:42]
Will Bogle
That's what I was gonna say. I don't know that you needed to read it before you could say it had my name on it. Yeah. A hiker. Yes. I think we call them seasoned protagonists. I can't remember specifically. So the main hiker disappears. So she's not in the book a Whole lot. But I think she's an older woman whose partner. She's a pretty seasoned hiker. Her partner has sort of dropped her off and let her. He's supporting her on a long trail, like the Appalachian Trail. You would frequently have people that sort of in town kind of do deliveries and kind of resupply you with food and that sort of thing. But she disappears before the book opens, I believe. And then the book follows sort of this search for her. And there are a couple of sort of disparate storylines and characters. One of whom I just really, really liked. A lady in a nursing home with a strained relationship with her kid. And she, you know, like, over time you come to realize she's kind of like being. She's fascinated with this story of this missing hiker. But also you're like, but who cares? Like, I just. Why. Why that? You know? But it really paid off to have like sort of this ancillary character, the main character and what's happening to her. And then also the search and rescue team. And there's a lot of focus on them and what they're doing. And it was outdoorsy and mysterious. And like I said, I really liked the kind of odd characters you didn't even understand, necessarily for 80% of the book. Like, why are they even included in this story? Like, how is this going to kind of come together?
- [29:24]
Ann Vogel
I really enjoyed this one and I'm glad you did, too. This was in the guide in the mystery and thrillers category until the 11th hour. But I cut it for two reasons. One, I mean, I'm telling you about it today. If I had known about it at the time that we did our spring book Preview with that April 1st release date, I would have included it then. But it wasn't on my radar. But I was so excited to read it. I loved Seawife, her book before this one about a family that takes this tense, horrible, amazing year round trip along around the world on the. Is it the family yacht or a yacht they borrow? Everything goes wrong. I love that. I wanted to read her next book and it did not disappoint. But I decided to go a different direction. It had that April 1st publication date, which is a little early. Especially I wanted something later for that specific category because I'd like there to be a broad distribution. But also a couple team members were like, this book is everywhere. And I had no idea that this book was doing really well. It was a big celebrity book club pick. I've been very much in my own lane, eyes on my own Work. I have not been on social media this year. Maybe I quote, should have been for professional reasons, but friends, like, we're all doing the best we can in 2025 and 2024 for me. And it looks like not being on the Internet and that combination of factors made me go a different direction. I love the direction we went in. We went a little quirkier. And I think people are going to be really excited to find Below the Radar book. I don't think they would have otherwise found that Cayman in this book's place. But that does not mean I didn't love Hartwood. And I'm so glad you did, too.
- [31:07]
Will Bogle
Yeah, I really did. And I'm glad you pointed it in my direction.
- [31:11]
Ann Vogel
We didn't do a pit stop for Maine in the summer reading guide because we did a really popular literary tourism post for Maine on Modern Mrs. Darcy. But there are so many good books set in Maine. Add Hartwood to that list and will. I think the last one you read was nonfiction.
- [31:26]
Will Bogle
Yeah. And this actually was a hardback that came. Well, you know what, it probably wasn't hardback, but it was an arc that came in the mail. But it, but it caught my eye. The description, either in the publicist letter or on the back of the book, called it Slumdog Millionaire meets An Inconvenient Truth. And I'm like, wait, how do those things go together? This is a memoir called A Billionis by Dr. Shukla. And basically, I mean, the Slumdog Millionaire part. It's his memoir of growing up in rural. Rural, like very rural India. And then his career development and the opportunities he had in climate science, mostly in the US but all over the world. And he ended up sort of becoming this very well known and important figure in climatology and weather forecasting. I guess that he helped set up the sort of national institutes in India. Fascinating, fascinating story. He's older than I expected. So a lot of the stuff that's happening, I'm like, wait a minute, who is this person? So writing the memoir, he is older than I expected and starts the storytelling. Back in the 60s with the moon landing, JFK's promise to get to the moon, the administration also wanted a sort of scientific, worldwide cooperative engagement versus sort of this race to the moon. And so they come up with this idea to record more data than has ever been recorded. And. And I just didn't know. I mean, whatever. You get the weather to the hour on your phone and we check it pretty obsessively and are amazed when it's wrong because it's right so often and all. But he really goes back to like, we did not know what the weather was going to be tomorrow. You know, there was the time not that long ago that like, we just had no idea. And so he talks all about like the development of, of the models and how we got to prediction is better. And his entire career was built on the idea of trying to. Trying to understand monsoon and predict monsoons because growing up as a kid, like, they just didn't know when it was going to rain. And their entire livelihood depended on having a rainy season and knowing when it would start so you could plant your crops at the right time. And so he was always focused on that and eventually figures out that it has to do with, I'm sorry to say I don't remember the science. I think it was the temperature of the ocean. So. Speaking of, that's probably why I didn't recommend it for the guide. It was very readable and I found it to be really, really interesting. But there was a lot of science. I don't think everyone would find it. It is not what we call narrative nonfiction. I don't think everyone would sort of stick through all the meetings, all the titles, all the organization names, all the science. He does a lot on the math of how they kind of came up with these models and how they prove which ones do or don't work and why the weather report in Europe is different from the weather report in America. And you know, all this stuff. It was a very fascinating, interesting overlap of sort of coming technologies. Invention of the supercomputer was really important because the math is so big to do any kind of weather prediction, like you had to have a computer that could just churn through everything. So I found it really interesting, but definitely didn't feel like a crowd pleasing summer reading nonfiction title.
- [34:50]
Ann Vogel
Well, I really enjoyed when you're reading this because you'd sit down to dinner and be like, hey, y' all, listen to this. With some just wild factoid you'd read.
- [34:59]
Will Bogle
There were tidbits. Yeah, there were such good tidbits. So those were a few that I took a peek at and again, didn't pass the two of them on to you. You'd already read Heartwood, but you were mentioning Heartwood that you, because of the dates and such, decided to switch it out for something else and had something lined up like you were ready to go with that. How did you find hunting for the books overall? Did you have an abundance of books that like kind of had to Find a place to fit them or.
- [35:29]
Ann Vogel
That's such a good question.
- [35:31]
Will Bogle
Yeah.
- [35:32]
Ann Vogel
You know what I'm realizing now? My mother loved to shop. She'd talk about the thrill of the hunt. She'd go to Goodwill every day if she could. She just loved to find, like, unusual and interesting stuff. And I do not share that with shopping, but I absolutely share that with digging through piles of books that we might read in a given season. I really enjoyed the Hunt. It looked different this year. I'm always scanning the readerly horizons. This year I found so many of my favorite books just by browsing through the digital catalogs, saying, these are the review copies that came available this week. And friends, just because a review copy is available doesn't mean I get a copy. Then I have to ask the publisher very, very nicely to grant me access. And then like 70% of the time, they do. But I would just see what looked good. And sometimes what looked good was I'd be like, ooh, like, hey, there's the new novel from Frederick Bachmann. Of course I want to read that. But sometimes it looked like, I have never heard of this author, but I'm so intrigued by the premise. And then I'd read a little more about the author and see, is it a debut? What's their history? Is it not a debut? What have they written before? And then I'd read the first few pages and I'd decide if I wanted it to go on. And I just found what I hope will be some, like, really sleeper gems. Looking through that way, and in that sense, I really enjoyed the Hunt. Now, in some ways, the Hunt is really disappointing because I can't tell you how many times I'd find out about a book. I'd be like, yes, absolutely. This is a linchpin for mysteries and thrillers. And I'd read the first 10 pages and be like, eh, no. Onto the next. Because it wasn't. Mostly it's that it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And I was really excited about what I thought it was going to be. And that's what I felt like I needed to make the guide the kind of cohesive experience I want it to be. There are so many good books. I did have a really hard time this year finding mysteries and thrillers and nonfiction. And then the end, I think because I'd been looking so hard in those categories, I had to make agonizing decisions about what to cut. Would you talk through some of those with me? You know, talk about bringing visibility to the Summer reading guide. I think that last weekend before our deadline for design, I blew through, like, three different books, and then I was under the weather and you ran out to the bookstore for me to buy one. It actually wasn't released yet, but it was already out on the shelves. To buy one slender little nonfiction book that I was so excited about the concept of and ended up not using after I had 20 pages, I could say, like, oh, this is so interesting. And also, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. And I don't think it's bringing the balance I wanted to that memoir and nonfiction section. But that's not at all unusual. Like the race at the end, the weighing. I like what I have, but I'd love to take it and a quirkier direction in a, like, more debut, focused direction. Do you remember those last conversations?
- [38:38]
Will Bogle
Yeah. And I also remember just sort of there's always the general feeling of like, well, if I had a little more time, I could read a few more things. You know, like, it is one of those projects that's, like, never done. We just put a deadline on it. And like, it's, it's. It's. Which is true. I mean, there are always more books being published. There's always more books that even if they're not yet published, that you're getting access to. Right. I mean, some of picking the summary of at books, there's like, the ones you can read. Right. If. If we don't get a copy. Yeah, it's not going in, you know, not because it's not a great book. You just didn't have access to it in advance.
- [39:13]
Ann Vogel
Come July, y' all are going to ask me, oh, why didn't you include this amazing book in the guide? And the answer is going to be like, I didn't know it existed. Like, I had no idea in early May that this book existed in the world, or I couldn't get a copy. But so often, like, the process of discovery continues even when our guide deadline wraps. And something that brings me great comfort is knowing that there's always a place to talk about those titles that I find after our summer reading guide deadline wraps, there's always an episode in Patreon, a bonus episode, that's focused on books that I read, enjoyed, but didn't include in the summer reading guide. And I, you know, let you know what those are and give you the information you need to decide if you want them on your summer reading list. And then the new discoveries I make always make their way to the podcast to modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club to Patreon bonuses. We never run out of ways to talk about books we love around here.
- [40:08]
Will Bogle
So you were talking about wanting to fill out nonfiction and memoir as a category. That's always a category, right?
- [40:18]
Ann Vogel
We haven't always done some kind of nonfiction, but I made the decision a few years back that we always would, always will.
- [40:27]
Will Bogle
Yeah. Okay. But the other categories, generally speaking, those emerge based on the books, right?
- [40:35]
Ann Vogel
Yes, they do. They do. But they are pretty. You know, there aren't really any that are out there this year. William. I'm a little bit sad about this. Like, last year, we had this basically family saga, part two category emerge that was tales of midlife reckonings and coming of age. That just happened to be what the books presented themselves to me as. And this year, I toyed with doing some categories. Like, there are a lot of books set in Hollywood, and there were a lot of books that were just utter heartbreakers. And readers, we talk about content, warnings and unboxing. I've read every page of every book in this guide. I can answer all your questions if you're thinking, oh, my gosh, Ann, I do not want to inadvertently pick up a heartbreaking novel. We'll make sure that doesn't happen for you. I thought about doing something sort of magical. There was lots of found family, but the genres were so different for the books like that were set in Hollywood or that were road trips. And I decided to kind of go with the tone instead of those fun, like, more niche buckets like Heartbreakers. Although I guess Heartbreakers is all about the tone, isn't it? This year, let me tell you our categories. They are family dramas, tales of love and friendship, mystery and thriller, memoir and nonfiction, historical fiction. And then my uncategorized books are literary and contemporary fiction. And I have to tell you, for all of these, like, we had family saga, literary thrillers, and we had historical literary family dramas. And we had several wonderful historical books that are set in, like, the 80s, which felt like they captured a moment in time in a really immersive way. But also they didn't feel of a piece with the other historical fiction books. And so those two books appear in literary and contemporary fiction. Two of those could have been love stories. I mean, something that I really noticed so strongly with our spring book preview books was there were so many that defied easy genre categories. And there's lots of genre benders for summer also, which is a lot of fun. But also, as always, I encourage readers to take a look at the Books in every category. Not just to, like, zip to mystery and thriller, because that's all you want to read in the summer. Like, there's strong mystery elements in some of the family dramas, some of the historical fiction I don't want you to miss out.
- [43:07]
Will Bogle
And as a category, you generally are going more of a genre or like, what. What genre is this? As you said, tone. Like, what kinds of books might a reader gravitate towards and what do they want to know about this list of books versus, as you said, Hollywood we did this year. I almost. I almost say we always do. I don't actually know that's true. It's happened a couple times, but. But I know this year there's another feature about the summer reading guide, Books Remixed. So instead of being in those categories, you kind of pull together some different themes and make separate lists out of them. Was there a Hollywood list? I don't remember there being a Hollywood list, no.
- [43:48]
Ann Vogel
But there is one called Book, Song and Screenplay Writers that captures those books that are strongly in the world of publishing or music. Or you can tell there's a book I loved about a screenwriter. There's a place.
- [44:05]
Will Bogle
There's a place for them. So that's another way also when you're trying to branch out a little bit instead of strictly looking at the category and seeing, like, I don't know that I really like these kinds of books. If you look at the remixes, you may catch a couple of things and say, I like this kind of idea. Oh, I might not have picked that one up because it's in a different.
- [44:27]
Ann Vogel
Category than I typically gravitate towards in this year. I mean, our remix is a way to recategorize the books. That's where we list all the debuts for those of you who want to know what's new. And, like, that's where I highlighted the books that were set at locales around the world. And that means not based in the US Like I am. So you can travel the world vicariously. Those are just a couple examples. There are 1, 2, 3, 4. There's seven lists in this year's remix, and that is something we've done, I think, since we did our first magazine style in 2019.
- [45:00]
Will Bogle
I was wondering when that started. So part of that is kind of giving people another way to look at them to break out of their standard, go to genres. Right. Which we tried to do in 2018. So that would have been right before we started doing these remixes. In 2018, we published the Summer Reading Guide as a collection of books with no categories.
- [45:27]
Ann Vogel
We didn't do categories. I will put the blog post in which I explain some of my thoughts about this in show notes, because it's really fun. In 2018, we did. We released it with no categories. If we had, like, wanted to run a grand social readerly experiment, this might have been how we would have. I mean, we wouldn't mess with you all like that. But it turned out to be that inadvertently, that year, we published it without categories. And that was my. I mean, please don't throw tomatoes at me. But that was my decision because I was looking at these books and I was thinking, gosh, so many of these are so good. And I'm afraid that readers are going to miss them. If they go like, ugh, I don't read mystery. Or ugh, historical is just not for me. I didn't want them to miss out. And I was afraid that we put a fantasy novel and a fantasy category. Lots of readers who would love that book would just write it off because they had told themselves that those kinds of books weren't for them. So we didn't do categories. And a bunch of readers were like, thank you. And a bunch of readers were like, help me. What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do with this list when it's not broken down for me? So in that blog post we linked to, I explained, like, a little bit about the feedback we heard and then what the process of sorting the guide into categories was like. So every year since then, we've done categories. That was a really fun experiment. Back in 2018, I remember after the guide had released and after we thought we were done, I wrote out every title on an index card like I do, and I put them at our kitchen island, and I just shuffled and shuffled to get them into categories this time. And I remember adding one book to the guide because I didn't like the balance of the books in the categories once I did that. But that was. That was really fun. And also, don't worry, we won't do that again. But I would like to remind readers that sometimes you're meant to be written for you. Favorite books are waiting for you in places you are not expecting to find them. So I really encourage you to approach the guide with an open mind. Here's my soapbox, or superlative. Reading experiences delight us in part because they bring an element of surprise. They're not what we usually read, they're not what we were expecting, and so they feel really special and unique. And often those come from places we're not expecting.
- [47:51]
Will Bogle
I'm going to step down now from your soapbox.
- [47:53]
Ann Vogel
Yeah.
- [47:54]
Will Bogle
As we wrap up here, Speaking of places you didn't expect, I don't know that you want to give away the book, but one of the books this year you got from a publicist who is pushing a big book, and it's like, well, okay, thanks. I knew about that. That's a big book, right?
- [48:12]
Ann Vogel
No, I asked for that. You asked for that. And she said, I'm delighted to send it. And also, I know you. We communicate about books because I work for this publisher and send you lots of stuff. And I think you may enjoy this one also. And I'm not gonna say what it is. We're hoping that we're gonna be able to read it from Modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club this summer. It's a minimalist pick, but I really loved it. That was a fun discovery that, like, stands out. I can't remember that happening in recent years.
- [48:42]
Will Bogle
So shout out to publicists who, you know, believe in their authors, but. But yes.
- [48:46]
Ann Vogel
Who are doing hard work.
- [48:47]
Will Bogle
Yeah, doing hard work. I mean, hand selling individual arcs to people trying to get the word out about a book. And that's part of the fun of doing the summer reading guide.
- [48:57]
Ann Vogel
But high fives to her. I mean, she knew I loved this book. This book and this book from her publisher she was familiar with, and she could tell what I was willing to take a chance on and said, I think this one might be your next read. And yeah, I inhaled it. I loved it. It's in the guide. It's in love stories, though. It's not a romance.
- [49:16]
Will Bogle
And since we can't do that personally, we don't know each person personally. Wanna want to just highlight one more feature that we include in the guide with every book? We've got a couple of titles that we say that this book is for fans of these other titles. And so hopefully you can recognize yourself as like, hey, these are some books I've loved. And so they're talking to me. You know, if I love those titles, here's a book that I'll probably like as well.
- [49:47]
Ann Vogel
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- [51:44]
Will Bogle
Well, as I said, I'm excited because I got my hands on the guide yesterday. So I have seen it and very excited to share it with everybody. We should tell them how they can get a copy of the guide.
- [51:57]
Ann Vogel
Yes we should. Okay. This is the biggest thing we do all year. It is an included perk for members of our communities. That's the modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club and our what Should I Read Next Patreon. Once again, this year we are making a la carte access available if you don't have the time or inclination to join a community. If you do a la carte access, you get the digital PDF and you get an invite to unboxing. Unboxing is not essential, but it's so much fun and adds a lot of context and nuance to all our selections. Plus I answer questions live and I answer more questions for our patrons. In a follow up episode, we do a All Things SRG Ask us anything Shannon and I are planning on recording it right after the unboxing this year. If you can't come live, it's totally fine. We do a replay. If you have no interest in unboxing, that's fine too. This year, for the very first time, we are printing the guides. We know that many of you for years have like gone off to FedEx or Kinkos or Staples or your local print shop, if you're that lucky, when the guide comes out so that you can have your copy that you can hold in your hands and tuck in your bag and take to the library and the bookstore and on vacation and leave on your coffee table and reference next year when the books are more readily available at the library and we're print people. Like, I totally get that, but it's gotten really, really expensive. Last year it cost me 60 bucks to print mine at Kinko's and the results were only okay. So this year we've been experimenting with printing magazine style stuff and mailing it to readers and we're ready to do that for the summer Reading Guide. Will, you've really been the boss on our team of this grand experiment, y' all. You can order the guide online. It's in our shop@modernmrsdarcy.com shop. A big drawback is you will not get this in a hurry. I couldn't bear to make our content deadline like early April, so. So we're mailing these probably what, on unboxing day?
- [54:02]
Will Bogle
On the next day, right about when they come out?
- [54:05]
Ann Vogel
We're mailing them when they're ready. We're sending them by US Mail because of the state of the world and shipping and tariffs and all that. We're sending them to US Addresses only. I hope that's not forever, but that is the situation for our small business in this season. And I'm sorry if that means you can't get your own where you live, but we're bulk ordering. They're, I think, going to be gorgeous. We've printed once for 2024, so we could take a nice look at it and design for that in 2025. And you can purchase this year a standalone print summer reading guide that does not include a digital PDF or unboxing access that's available in the shop. If you already have the Summer Reading guide through your community membership or your a la carte purchase, you can also choose to add a print guide in our shop and we will mail it to your doorstep. William, what else do people need to know about the print guide?
- [54:59]
Will Bogle
I think that covers it. They're, they're great, they're great looking. We actually are also printing the past couple of years. We're going to have 2022 through 2025 available. And I just got an email this morning that they've got a pile of 2022 ready for me. They're really good looking booklets.
- [55:16]
Ann Vogel
They're like that are printed.
- [55:17]
Will Bogle
They're printed, yeah.
- [55:19]
Ann Vogel
Oh, I can't wait to see that.
- [55:20]
Will Bogle
Going to go pick them up. Yeah. So. And 2022 was one of my favorites. I love that with the, it had the citrus fruit cover. It's just a real fun design. So yeah, you can get those. They're going to be great to throw on your coffee table. As Anne said, flip through when you're, when you're wondering what to read next. Big difference being again, we'll ship those out as soon as we get them. After some reading guy day. They then go first class. So it's going to be, you know, five days or something before they get to you as opposed to. If you buy the, the digital a la carte. You'll get the email with the PDF at 10am on Thursday the 15th.
- [55:55]
Ann Vogel
And we also have merch in our shop this year. We have a bookish hat, we have a concert style tee and we have great stickers that are road trip themed. But I mean I'm going to want mine on my car well past the end of summer reading season.
- [56:13]
Will Bogle
Yeah.
- [56:14]
Ann Vogel
And I'm gonna wear this hat all the freaking time. I cannot wait to get mine.
- [56:18]
Will Bogle
I'm excited about the merch this year. We've had a number of things with our logo, you know, with the. We had an I'd rather be reading T shirt several years ago. We've got a tote that we've stocked for for years. But, but last year the book camp theme we incorporated into creating some stickers and, and a couple of things. And this year the road trip just. Yeah, I love the concert tee. So we call it a concert tee because it's got a bunch of locations on the back as if someone were going on tour. But they're independent bookstores. So a real fun way to kind of look at some of our favorite shops from our team across the country. And the stickers are just adorable. So check those out in the shop.
- [57:01]
Ann Vogel
Yeah, they're super fun. And there's a related feature in the guide so I hope you enjoy that too. Okay. I think we've come to the end of our road. No pun intended. Okay. Kind of intended.
- [57:12]
Will Bogle
Totally intended.
- [57:13]
Ann Vogel
Ginger always says bookish puns are 100% intended around here, so we'll go with that. Will, thanks for joining me today.
- [57:20]
Will Bogle
I had a blast. Thanks for having me.
- [57:26]
Ann Vogel
Readers. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and if you have questions about the Summer Reading Guide, share them on the blog in comments for this new what Should I Read Next? Episode post. I answer lots of questions during unboxing, and like I said, we're always wondering what our readers want to know. And I decide what to share during unboxing based largely on what I know you want to know. So ask your Summer Reading Guide questions, share what books you're interested in seeing in the guide, and see the list of titles Will and I talked about today, all at what Should I read next? Podcast.com you can keep up with the latest that we're working on by signing up for our emails where we share a peek at each week's new episode and let you know about other exciting events in the world of what Should I Read Next? Like you would have already heard about our new merch and the stuff coming up for Summer Reading Guide season, sign up at what Should I read next podcast.com newsletter. We're on Instagram at what Should I Read Next? And if you follow or subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast platform, that makes a big difference in our viability. Whether you use Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, wherever you like to get your podcasts, when you follow and download those new episodes, that tells the networks and our advertisers and supporters that you care about our show. It's quick and free and we'd be so grateful if you take a moment to check and see if you are subscribed. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Will Bogle, Holly Wilkachevsky and Studio D Podcast Productions. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.