Ep 512: I'm looking for 5-star stunners

Summary

Podcast Summary: What Should I Read Next? - Episode 512: “I'm looking for 5-star stunners”

Host: Anne Bogel
Guest: Meredith Wiggins
Date: February 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on reader and library professional Meredith Wiggins, who seeks out “5-star stunner” books—those rare reads so beautifully written and emotionally resonant they move her to tears by the final page. Anne and Meredith dig deep into the art of finding these books, analyze what makes a “stunner,” and share recommendations that might help lift Meredith from a long period of good-but-not-great books.

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Key Episode Sections & Timestamps

• Meredith’s Background, Reading Life & Dilemma: 06:17–16:36
• Discussion of Favorite Reads: 21:49–38:31
• The Book That Didn’t Work: 41:29–45:34
• Recent & Ongoing Reads: 45:39–50:42
• Anne’s Recommendations for Meredith: 55:04–70:36

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Detailed Breakdown

1. Meredith's Reading Life & 5-Star Dilemma

06:17–16:36

• Background: Meredith works with law students on professional development and serves part-time at her public library in Lawrence, Kansas. She’s an avid reader, queer elder millennial, and book recommender for others.
• Genres & Habits:
  • Prefers romance (especially historical), contemporary fiction, and popular nonfiction.
  • Has grown more okay with not finishing books: “This was the book that single-handedly ended my policy...of finishing every book that I read.” (Meredith, 00:00)
  • Involved in two book clubs, which broaden her reading horizons.
• The Dilemma: For the past 18 months, Meredith has been stuck in a rut of 3 to 3.5-star reads—books she enjoys but don’t wow her. She's looking for “stunners,” i.e., books she “clutches to her chest” and sometimes cries over at the end (12:19–13:59).
• Favorite Attributes in Books:
  • “Strong writing. Characters that I find compelling. I don’t need to find them likable, but I do need to find them compelling… probably more a setting that interests me than a plot.” (Meredith, 16:36)
  • “A five-star read would take all of that and combine it with some sort of emotional punch that just really hits me…and I don’t really think there’s anything in the book that could have been done better than it was.” (16:36)

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2. Favorite Books – Deep Dives

21:49–38:31

A. The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt

21:51–26:09

• Art theft and lush, immersive prose draw Meredith in.
• Loves dynamic, believable narration and layered settings.
• “I just found myself sort of lavishing in it…I wanted to just sort of roll around in the language and the characters.” (Meredith, 21:51)
• Became a “stunner” in the last 6-7 pages: “I started to get that five star feeling where I was like…I started to feel like, oh, she's going to stick the landing.” (24:43)

B. The Secret Lives of Country Gentlemen by K.J. Charles

26:16–31:17

• Queer historical romance; she’s read nearly all of K.J. Charles.
• Praises “interesting pairings,” strong characterization, and “just beautiful connection between characters.”
• Highlights subtle wit: “She’ll have a character say something that's a little absurd. And the narrator will be like, oh yes, he said, comma, inaccurately, period. Which is about the amount of sort of external weight I find really charming…” (28:28)
• Audiobook praised for performance value.

C. A Poor Collector’s Guide to Buying Great Art by Erling Kagge

31:21–38:31

• Surprised and delighted by Kagge’s witty, singular voice: “He has a really interesting tone…he’s not telling jokes, but he’s being very funny throughout.”
• Enjoyed immersion in a world of high art inaccessible to most.
• Anne expands on themes of collecting/art and parallels to reading: “He talks endlessly about how having the money to buy anything available means you don’t end up with a very good collection.” (39:36)
• Both agree: voice, perspective, and immersion trump accessibility.

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3. A Book That Didn’t Work – The Nix by Nathan Hill

41:29–45:34

• Intergenerational family saga, experimental fiction, and satire—disconnected from Meredith’s taste.
• “I felt like the writing was very impressed with itself…look what I can make language do, in a way that didn’t serve the characters or the story and just felt…I kept thinking, like, self-indulgent.” (Meredith, 41:51)
• This book made her comfortable with not finishing books: “I remember where I was when I finished it and was like, never again.” (41:51)

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4. Recent/Ongoing Reads & Bonus Favorites

45:39–50:42

• Recent focus: nonfiction (Jon Krakauer, essays on collecting/hoarding), contemporary fiction.
• The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt: A recent “delight” and five-star read. Enjoyed clever gaps, clues, and narrative playfulness.
  • “Got to the end of the book, I was so delighted. I just flipped back to the first page and started again…” (49:40)
• Enjoys “books that are smart but not necessarily sharp”—seeking depth and wit without meanness or brutality.
• Fondness for surprise and replay value.

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5. Anne’s Recommendations

55:04–70:38

Parameters:

• Smart, well-written, immersive, playful rather than biting.
• Books with art/crime/collection themes, atmospheric settings, or emotional punch.
• Open to a range of genres, especially books that “drop you into a moment in time” or provide a strong, unique perspective.

A. The Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins (59:18–61:30)

• Thriller/mystery in the Scottish art world involving a reclusive artist, art foundation, and a found human bone hidden in a piece.
• Tightly wound plot, island setting, high art intrigue.
• “I’m not always huge into mystery and thriller, but everything that you’re describing sounds up my alley. When you said there’s a human bone found in one of her pieces, I felt my eyebrows fly up.” (Meredith, 61:11)

B. The History of Sound by Ben Shattuck (62:19–66:24)

• Short story collection, “novel in stories” style, stories paired and interlinked.
• Historical and artistic resonance, with emotional depth and narrative layering.
• “I love when I feel like a book or a movie trusts you to figure things out a little bit as you’re going along, that sort of drop in and out...” (Meredith, 65:57)

C. The Latecomer by Jean Hanff Korelitz (66:34–69:54)

• Brooklyn family drama involving IVF-conceived triplets, a “latecomer” sibling, and a father who is an avid modern art collector (with “hoarding” subplot).
• Deep dives into art, family, and secrets—art collecting details woven through the narrative.
• “The way you’ve described this one makes it sound, I don’t know, like it could really be up my alley.” (Meredith, 68:59)

Honorable Mentions & Related Reads:

• The Art Thief by Michael Finkel (already read and loved by Meredith)
• Get the Picture by Bianca Bosker (also a hit)
• Boyfriend Material series by Alexis Hall (known and liked by Meredith)
• All Fours by Miranda July (interesting paired with Bosker’s work)

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6. Memorable Quotes

• “This was the book that single-handedly ended my policy...of finishing every book that I read.”
  —Meredith Wiggins (00:00)

• “I just found myself sort of lavishing in it…I wanted to just sort of roll around in the language and the characters.”
  —Meredith, on The Goldfinch (21:51)

• “A five-star read would take all of that and combine it with some sort of emotional punch that just really hits me…”
  —Meredith (16:36)

• “Books that are smart, but maybe not necessarily sharp.”
  —Anne, paraphrasing Meredith’s taste (50:25)

• “I felt like the writing was very impressed with itself…in a way that didn’t serve the characters or the story…”
  —Meredith, on The Nix (41:51)

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7. Recommendations Recap

• The Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins: art, intrigue, isolated setting.
• The History of Sound by Ben Shattuck: interlinked stories with atmosphere, emotional resonance.
• The Latecomer by Jean Hanff Korelitz: family saga + art collecting.

Meredith is most intrigued by The Latecomer, planning to take it on her upcoming trip.

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Takeaways

• For readers in a rut, consider exploring books with immersive narration, emotionally rich endings, or “smart but not sharp” writing.
• Don’t force yourself to finish books that don’t work for you.
• Pairing books on similar themes (art, collecting) or tones can offer rewarding, serendipitous reading experiences.
• Recommendations targeting both personal taste and a desire for surprise can help re-ignite a spark for 5-star reading.

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“I have not had as many of those types of reads as I would like to be finding over the last couple of years.” —Meredith

“Gosh, I’d love to see you find some books that you love for 2026.” —Anne

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For a full list of titles mentioned, visit What Should I Read Next? Ep 512 Show Notes.

Transcript

[Meredith Wiggins]

This was the book that single handedly ended my policy, which up to then had sort of been lifelong of finishing every book that I read. That was the book where I was like, I'm not doing that anymore.

[Anne Bogel]

I love that you can point to the one hey readers, I'm Anne Bogle and this is what Should I Read Next? Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I Read Next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest. Readers we are always happy to welcome new listeners to our show. It was an unexpected treat to be featured recently by the New York Times on their list of seven Podcasts for Bookworms. And as we ease into a new year of reading, Whether you've recently found our show or you've been listening for all 10 years, we have so many good bookish conversations to bolster your reading life. Our what Should I Read Next? Homepage is a great place to start. You'll find an easy link to subscribe to our show in your favorite podcast player and an invitation to join our email list for updates on new episodes and other happenings from what Should I read next HQ. With our archive of over 500 episodes, you are sure to find conversations with readers whose tastes or reading dilemmas mirror yours. If you're brand new to the show and unsure where to start, one idea is to tune into some of our team episodes where you'll hear from our what Should I Read Next Team sharing their own reading tastes or recent favorite reads, these episodes often call back to other conversations we've had on the podcast and can then point you in the direction of more episodes you might especially enjoy. Or for even more searchability, join our Patreon community and you'll get access to our super secret spreadsheet, which lists every episode, every book recommended, and a quick summary of each episode's focus. Find us [e-mail] whatshouldIreadnext no matter where you go from here, we're happy you're here. Thank you for listening and happy reading readers. If your 2026 plan includes finally figuring out your finances, you are not alone. One of our popular Patreon bonus episodes last year was all about personal finance books, because for many of us, we don't even know the right questions to ask or don't know what we don't know that's where a company like Fearless Finance comes in. When I'm looking for or working with experts, I'm looking for someone to tell me if I'm on the right path. Getting insight and support from someone who really knows their stuff does wonders for my ongoing peace of mind. Whether I'm talking about my houseplants or how I'm going to pay for my kids college. 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Meredith Wiggins works in library services from her hometown of Lawrence, Kansas City, which means she is well versed in recommending books to readers and finding great titles for herself. Lately, though, Meredith has run into a conundrum. Over the past few years, she has struggled to find the five star reads that leave her in the best kind of tears at book's end. For the past 18 months or so, Meredith has had a hard time finding these books. Instead, she's been on a long run of three or three and a half star reads. Not bad, but not what she's looking for. And she's here for my help. Meredith has already tried a few solutions that haven't much helped, so I'm excited to dig deeper into what's going on and what tactics might put Meredith back on track to find these standout titles she's seeking. We will zoom in on what's happening and what's not working, and I hope to leave Meredith with more insight into what exactly is going on here, plus ideas for titles and techniques that might just turn this trend around in the year to come and find plenty of stunners that she'll be glad she read. Let's get to it. Meredith, welcome to the show.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Hi Ann. Thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm so excited to be speaking with you.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, the pleasure's mine. I'm excited to dive in today and was really intrigued by your submission, so I'm very excited to get into it. Meredith, we'd love just to hear a little bit about yourself. Would you give our readers a glimpse of who and where you are?

[Meredith Wiggins]

My name is Meredith Wiggins. I use she her pronouns. I currently live in my beloved Lawrence, Kansas. I am a queer elder millennial. I've lived in the Deep South. That's where I'm originally from. The Midwest slash Great Plains. I lived in the Southwest for a little while and moved back to Lawrence about a year and a half ago. In my professional life I work with law students supporting their professional development, helping them think about what kind of law they might be interested in practicing and helping them polish up those skills so that when they go out into the world they feel prepared. And I also work part time in my public library, my local public library. I mostly do reader services. So sort of what you're doing here? Interacting with patrons, suggesting books if they're looking for something or helping them locate the read that they're hoping for. But I also do moonlight and sort of non fiction or info services. And when I'm not reading or at work or spending time with my my pets and my friends, I'm a huge thrifter. I've recently taken up junk journaling. That's been really fun. And I weirdly love to write parody versions of pop songs. That's the thing I got really into a few years ago and still do fairly regularly when I get the chance.

[Anne Bogel]

Need that in your bio now. You shared an additional fun fact in your submission. That is what should I read next to Jason Would you tell us about by the Book?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes. So some of your listeners may remember the podcast by the Book. I think it wrapped up a couple of years ago, but the hosts would read and live by the advice of a different self help book for a couple of weeks at a time. And I don't remember where I first heard about it, but I wrote a blog post many, many years ago for the public library that I work at saying like hey, if you like reading and you're looking for new ways to get recommendations, here are a few things you might try. I shouted out that podcast in that blog post and when I was listening to the podcast again a few weeks later, I noticed that they said they were wrecked by the librarians of Lawrence, Kansas. And I was like that's me. I'm the librarian of Lawrence, Kansas. I guess I should say they might have been referring to someone else, but I have decided in my heart all of these years that they probably met me.

[Anne Bogel]

Sounds good to me. And readers, if you are ready for a throwback episode that is still a lot of fun, you can listen to Kristin and Jolenta of by the book on episode 121 of what Should I Read Next? Where I recommend three books I think would be fun for them to dig into on the show and they did actually dig into one of them and they also share the Books that they loved and didn't love for their podcast. It's a lot of fun.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I think I remember definitely the book they didn't love. I know they talked about on one of their own podcasts, and I think it was one they talked about with you as well.

[Anne Bogel]

Isn't it funny how those ones that do not work for us and other people often are really sticky?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yeah, really sticky.

[Anne Bogel]

And that makes them easy to talk about down the road, which serves our show very well. Okay, that's a Fun throwback to 2018. But, Meredith, we want to talk about your reading life today. Would you, like, paint a picture for me, past or present? What does reading mean to you? What role does it play in your life?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I think that reader has always been one of the primary identities that comes to mind when I think about who I am. I started reading really early when I was a kid and just sort of never stopped. Other interests came and went, but wanting to dig into books and think about them and enjoy them in lots of different ways always stuck with me. And I read fairly widely. I think there are excellent books on pretty much every topic and in pretty much every genre. What I read most often these days is romance, though I prefer historical to contemporary. And right now, there's a little bit of a lull in historical publication. So that's a little bit of a sadness for me as a romance reader. But I also read a lot of contemporary fiction. I love popular nonfiction, but I think I'm willing to try most types of books. My default, like, this is not going to work for me, is if at any point I start sort of mentally copy editing the book, I'm like, oh, I think you used three words there, and one word would have been more effective. I'm like, okay, this isn't for me. Time for me to wrap this up and let it go. But I'm in a couple of book clubs, mostly through my work. One is very closely aligned with books that I would probably pick out to read myself. The other has really been more books that I probably would never have picked up. And both of those have been really joyous experiences to be part of, because, as I told you when I wrote in, I've kind of struggled over the last 18 months to, at this point, coming up on two years to find books that I really loved. And so just having the opportunity to talk about them in depth, even if I didn't love a particular read with other folks, has been pretty great.

[Anne Bogel]

Let's dive right into that dilemma. So, Meredith, you wrote in with A specific plea about your run of do you want to take it from here?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Sure, yeah. I feel like I've been in a little bit of a rut of three to three and a half star books, which I think there is a huge place in most readers lives for that three to three and a half star book range. To me that means I probably enjoyed it. I didn't regret that I read it. There were probably some parts of it I thought really worked and some parts of it that I thought didn't really work. But for many years I felt like I was pretty lucky. Skilled at finding consistently a four star, even a five star read. And for about the last 18 months I feel like it's really been three star after three star after three and a half star read. And I'm very stingy with five stars. But what I'm looking for really are like the stunners, I think in my submission I said I know it's a five star read. If I get to the last page and sort of independent of what else I felt about it during the process of reading it, I clutch it to my chest and I'll often sort of start to like, well up and cry a little bit. Not necessarily because it's sad at the ending, but because I feel like it stuck the landing so beautifully and wrapped up in what, in retrospect was the only way it could have wrapped up. And I have not had as many of those types of reads as I would like to be finding over the last couple of years. I think when I wrote into you, I said, help me, Obi and Kenobi, and then immediately hated myself when I didn't submit. But you know, sometimes the only way to get past a truly cringy moment is to share it with an audience of podcast listeners.

[Anne Bogel]

I guess, I mean, we found that to be the case here.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes, I've asked sort of people around me whose taste I share and whose taste I don't share for recommendations. I've tried reading more widely. I've tried really honing in on genres I know that tend to work for me. I've tried reading in different formats. I've tried reading more, I've tried reading less. And it just seems like for whatever reason, I'm not having a lot of success at connecting with those reads right now.

[Anne Bogel]

Meredith, what I'm really wondering is, I mean, a reading experience is us meeting a book, very dynamic in a certain time, place and circumstance, and we're talking about the book end of that equation. But I'm wondering when you reflect on where you are in this season of the past 18 months. If you have any glimmers of insight or if possible hypotheses present themselves, the answer could absolutely be nah, no.

[Meredith Wiggins]

It's interesting that you asked that question because I had for various personal reasons a pretty difficult like 2020 to 2020, beginning of 2023ish. But I felt like I wasn't having the difficulties sort of with reading that I think I've had more recently where my life has been a little bit calmer. So maybe, maybe there is something there about just I've got space in my life for other things to be taking up more energy and more enjoyment than I did sort of over that period of time. But I can't say that there's anything in particular that I would point to and be like, I think you're right, I think it's me. And rather than just not finding the.

[Anne Bogel]

Books, well, let's pin that up on the bulletin board of our minds. But also what I really want for you and every reader is welcome calm in your personal life, great books in your reading life.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes, both.

[Anne Bogel]

And so that's our goal. Thank you for describing what a three or three and a half star book feels like for you. You enjoyed it, no regrets, but definitely not a stunner. But I'd love to hear in the abstract because I hope you've chosen four and five star books for your loves. I'm thinking that that's probably the case.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, wonderful. Can you tell me in the abstract what a 4 or 5 star read would feel like?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I would say a 4 star read is one where I feel like it's done really well and is probably also aligned with just broadly the kinds of things I tend to enjoy reading about or the kinds of things that I find make for a compelling read, which is probably going to be strong writing. Characters that I find compelling. I don't need to find them likable, but I do need to find them compelling as well as probably more a setting that interests me than a plot. I can read about a book that is no one doing anything. If I think that the writing is good and the characters are compelling and you put it in a place that interests me, I do not really need a plot to move me forward. A five star read would take all of that and combine it with some sort of emotional punch that just really hits me and will usually mean I don't really think there's anything in the book that could have been done better than it was. Whoa, yeah, I'm pretty picky about a five star. In a good year I might hit like five to ten and even that's a little high, to be frank.

[Anne Bogel]

And what was it in 2025? Do you happen to know or have a ballpark?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Probably two to three that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, Meredith, that's good information to put in the hopper. Thank you very much. I'd love to take this to the like SP specific nitty gritty and talk about the books you brought to the show today. Are you ready?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogel]

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[Meredith Wiggins]

Fantastic.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, how do you pick the books you brought today?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I decided to go for books that I had really enjoyed Slash loved in the past sort of year and a half that I'd been going through this bit of a reading slump. I picked the book that sort of kicked off the reading slump because it was so good. I felt like I was in a little bit of a book hanger over afterwards. A book that I've returned to six or seven times over that period of time. And then one book that just sort of came out of nowhere and delighted me.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, I love it and I trust that we'll get to hear which is which.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes.

[Anne Bogel]

What's the first book you love?

[Meredith Wiggins]

The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt. This is the book that kicked off the book Hangover. I am extremely interested in art crime of all kinds and art theft particularly. I don't remember exactly how I first got into that as a little hyper fixation. But for the past few years, anytime there's an opportunity to engage with that, I just want to know more about it. And I mentioned this to a former boss of mine and she was like, oh, you've got to read the Goldfinch. And brought me her copy and loaned it to me. It took me a while to get to reading it, but once I did, I really just found myself sort of lavishing in it. I don't know if there's a better word. I wanted to just sort of roll around in the language and the characters. I think one of the things that really made me appreciate that book is I. I often struggle when I feel like a writer or a narrator is using language that the characters wouldn't have access to or wouldn't go to regularly. And because in that book she's writing about sort of a variety of worlds. She's writing about sort of high New York society. She's writing about sort of the down and out slums of Las Vegas. She's writing about Eastern European organized crime. It goes so many places that she's able to really use a lot of really interesting ways of having the characters express themselves. And I thought that the narrator of the book has such a specific voice that changes across the book because it follows him from being, you know, a fairly young kid to being a grown man. But it always sounds like, oh, yeah, this person would talk this way. And to tie that back to art crime. The premise of the book, which you may know, is that there's a terrorist attack at the Metropolitan Museum of Art when the narrator of the book is there as a child and he sort of inadvertently steals a painting, the Goldfinch, while he's there and keeps it with him for many, many years. And it gets into, where did the painting go? Who's trying to recover the painting? And I just. I thought that it was lush, I guess, is the word I'm thinking of. There was never a moment in it where I felt like, she doesn't know what she's doing. And I hit that last sort of six or seven pages and I started to get that five star feeling where I was like. I started to feel like, oh, she's going to stick the landing. In a way that always worries me a little bit when I'm reading a book. Am I not going to feel like this was brought together or completed satisfactorily?

[Anne Bogel]

So before you started to get that five star feeling at the very end, what were you thinking?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I was thinking, this is a really solid four star read. I'm invested in it. I care about the characters, even if I don't like the characters. Even when it takes a detour into something that doesn't interest me as much as I feel like there's a purpose behind it. But when I hit that sort of last few pages and it started to tie the rest of the book together, that's when it really hit a five star for me.

[Anne Bogel]

That's reassuring to me that it didn't leapfrog because being able to think about the experience of a book as a whole is so much easier than trying to rack my brain for what are the last six or seven pages like for all these books I might consider recommending to Meredith. So thank you for that. Speaking of Donna Tartt, I feel like it's about time. I mean, I don't mean to be anxious or demanding, but like, I think it's about time for a new one.

[Meredith Wiggins]

It does feel like we've sort of hit that space of time that she tends to put them out. The Goldfinch was what, like 2013. So I would love if there were another one. I also really liked the Secret History and I've started and loved the Little Friend several times and I always sort of hit the same point and I'm like, I think I'm just ready to not be reading right now. But yeah, I would be delighted.

[Anne Bogel]

That would be interesting.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yeah, I would be delighted if she had another book come out.

[Anne Bogel]

Now I want to pick up the Goldfinch again, which I don't think I've read since it came out in 2013. Meredith, what's the second book you love?

[Meredith Wiggins]

The Secret Lives of country Gentlemen by K.J. charles. K.J. charles is an extremely prolific romance writer who writes primarily queer historical romance. Also does some paranormal. I think she's released somewhere between like 50 and 60 books and I've probably read maybe all but like five or six of them. And those sort of like unintentionally haven't read them, not like purposely sat them out. This is one of her more recent releases. I think it came out just a couple of years ago and it is about a newly made baronet and the smuggler in early 19th century England that he sort of inadvertently took up with without knowing who they were. I think she writes the most interesting pairings when it comes to romance. The characters are always really clearly defined and always have really understandable motivations that can push up against each other in really interesting ways. She's also, I think, just like a really strong Mechanical writer. I never feel like there's words out of place. I never feel that there's a twist. I don't understand for the sake of having a twist. One thing I really love about her writing is that I think she has sort of the perfect amount of external narration. She'll often, you know, she'll have a character say something that's a little absurd. And the narrator will be like, oh, yes, he said, comma, inaccurately, period. Which is about the amount of sort of external weight I find really charming in writing. She also writes just beautiful connection between characters. The books are often pretty spicy and I think really hot. This is also one that I think is fantastic on audiobook. And I've probably listened to it six or seven times since it came out on audio. And I'm not normally as much of an audio reader as I am a hard copy reader. But the performer is fantastic and just does a really great job of sort of drawing out the differences in the characters.

[Anne Bogel]

That sounds really interesting. This feels quite different from the Goldfinch. Like, how would you describe the tone of this book?

[Meredith Wiggins]

It is a heavier or slightly like, darker romance. There's a whole subplot with a. Actually, now that I'm saying this, with the theft of a lot of gold coin that in the subsequent book you find out is also sort of related to, like, ancient art. So there's a connection that I hadn't articulated in my own brain until then. But there's a whole subplot with sort of difficulty between their families. It brings weighty concerns, but it's not a heavy read. I think she's really good at doing the thing that I like best in a romance, which is for it to be about fundamentally good people trying to be kind to one another and operate with integrity in difficult situations. And what kindness and integrity mean to those characters can be so different. That that's where a lot of the conflict comes from. And I find that really rewarding as a reader.

[Anne Bogel]

All right, that is good to know. I don't believe I've read K.J. charles before. I might actually hang up with you and then remember the four novels I've read. That has certainly happened before. But I do know that I'm intrigued by the one coming out in April 2026 called how to Fake it in Society from KJ Charles.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I've read that one.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, well. So you know there's a painting in that book.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I do, yeah. It was described as Queer Bridgerton meets the Goldfinch, I think. And I was like, you Know what? I work at a library. I'm gonna put in for an arc. And it was. It's very good. I enjoyed it very much. A little bit lighter, I think, than Secret Lives of Country Gentlemen. She has some that are much more of a romp and some that are a little bit heavier. And this one, I think, sort of straddles that edge, putting you on the spot.

[Anne Bogel]

What is the star rating for these two K.J. charles books?

[Meredith Wiggins]

So for Secret Lives of Country Gentlemen, I think I started at a four, and then I kept going back and listening to it over and over, and I was like, that's stupid. It's a 5. And for how to fake it in society, probably a 4. It's not among my top tier of hers, so I might say 3.5 if I'm feeling a little ungenerous. But I did really enjoy it. I read it very quickly and liked the characters. I think it's more that she's written several books now where it's sort of like the Rake or the Con and the honest man that loves him. And I know I've just described that being like my fundamentally, my favorite plot in romance, but I've read that enough from her that I think I'm ready for her to maybe explore a different dynamic. So I think that one's a me thing.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. But still, a me thing is definitely something ever present in your reading life. So we want to know. We want to know about that.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Absolutely.

[Anne Bogel]

Meredith, what's the third book you love?

[Meredith Wiggins]

So the third book I love is the one that sort of came out of nowhere and just delighted me. And it is a Poor Collector's Guide to Buying Great Art by Erling Kaga. So this is nonfiction, and it is written by a sort of Nordic explorer and also an art collector. And I picked it up because I. I am a collector of many things. I am a magpie. I see something shiny, and I want it. And I saw the COVID of this and was like, oh, that's great. I don't have a lot of money to collect art, but I would love to buy great art. And it does turn out that when he's saying a poor collector, he's speaking in extremely relative terms. But that part ended up. Part of being. What was so interesting to me about the book was he's saying poor and meaning I have tens of thousands of dollars to spend or even maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars to spend. But the art that I want costs millions. And I saw some reviews of it that were really like, that's not a poor collector. Come on. This is not the book I thought. Which I understood, but I also thought that's really interesting, because in the world of fine art, like, yeah, there's not functionally a huge difference between having $50,000 to spend and having $1,000 to spend at a certain point, because so much of the art that you are most drawn to or most interested in is still so far outside that range, which I thought was such an interesting perspective that I just instantly was like, oh, I want to know what this person has to say. He has a really interesting tone in the book as well. He's not telling jokes, but he's being very funny throughout. He's very witty and also very informative in a way that I think my review of this book was like, I think this guy would be insufferable to be around. But this was an incredibly fun read. And so it was a chance to learn more about something that interests me from a person who I think just had a really singular voice that I enjoyed spending time with. And it's also just a beautiful book to look at just as an object. It was really gorgeous, I think. He shows up very briefly in the preface to Blair Braverman's welcome to the Ice Cube. She's sort of narrating an experience where she's out doing some Arctic exploration, and there's an explorer there from a Nordic country named Erling. And I was like, I don't know why you would name check that person unless it was Erling Kaga. That's. That's. Sorry, that's my brain just running away with me. But I.

[Anne Bogel]

No, that's really fun.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I picked that up recently and ended up not finishing the book for sort of a variety of reasons. But I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be talking about this guy really soon.

[Anne Bogel]

That's so fun. I have a story to tell you, and I have questions. Okay, so when you sent in your what should I Read next? Submission, I read that you love this book, and I've read several books by Erling Kaga and have really enjoyed them. And something that I think is interesting about his tone is he was like, I know things. I know all the things. Listen to me. And when I want, like, a really strong, opinionated take, like, like, have a take and own it, he does that really well. But his subjects are things like walking, why walking is incredible, and why you should walk two miles to work every day, like I do. He describes it as the perfect length and what weather is not Amenable to walking two miles to work. None. The answer is none. And they're like these nice little small compacts. I read his book on polar explorers and I've read some of his other more philosophical books. So I knew his name. But to have him associated with fine art, I was like, what? But also I was interested and it was hard to track down a copy. And then I ordered it and it came shrink wrapped. And then, well, the Bogles were not going to do Christmas Eve books and chocolate this year because we thought our college kids just want to read what they want to read. They don't need parental contributions to their titles. They have stacks. And our other one kid was not inundated with books and wanted some. But at the last minute we ended up doing books and chocolate and everybody got books. But I ended up giving this to Will and I thought, can I do that? Is that rude? But no, he actually just finished it. He really enjoyed it and we had a lot of great conversations because of it. Oh, amazing. But this book was published by his publisher because he is also a publisher in Norway. Like, this dude is a real, like, renaissance man in a way that I didn't realize was possible in 2025. I'm intrigued. Like, I want to know what he and Blue Braverman talked about on the Ice Cube. And it was a, like, pamphlet catalog insert. Like, this essay accompanied a show drawn from his collection that showed like 10 years ago at a museum of modern art in Scandinavia. But it was not that easy to track down a copy. But you stumbled upon it. So there's my story. And please tell me how you stumbled upon a copy of this book. I'm so curious.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I mentioned earlier I do a lot of junk journaling, so I also spend a lot of time just flipping through random magazines and publications. And I think it had gotten a shout out in one of the magazines that I looked at just as like an ad of a book that you could buy. It wasn't a review or anything like that, but the title was so intriguing and the COVID is bright orange, so it really drew my eye. And I think I ended up putting in a request for it through interlibrary loan. So the finding of it initially was a surprise. And then one day I was just like, that sounds interesting. I'll put in a request if it comes in. That's great. And it did take them a while to track it down and get it for me. But that is the magic of interlibrary loan is they can and when given enough time, find Practically anything for you.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, I'm glad you found it and I'm glad I found it because of you. So thank you very much for that.

[Meredith Wiggins]

That's so cool. Thank you for sharing that.

[Anne Bogel]

So how would you sum up what made it a five star for you? Like, I definitely have some ideas and I have a picture in my mind, but, like, let's make it better.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Definitely the chance to sort of immerse myself in an area I just don't know that much about was really interesting. What you said about if you want a take where it's like, I have the right take and all you have to do is listen to me and then you will have the right take. I don't always want to be in the mind of someone who has that sort of sense of certainty, but this made for a really interesting read and I think a little bit the surprise of it. I was expecting to enjoy the book, but I was sort of like, I'll skim the writing. Maybe. Once I realized that he was not talking about art that would be accessible to me as a much poorer collector, I was like, well, maybe I'll just skim through it and I'll look at the art that he has. And then I just really got sort of. Sort of swept up in what he had to say about the ways that he finds art, what makes him want to collect it. So I guess really the just the voice of the narrator was a big one for me here.

[Anne Bogel]

The voice of the narrator. Okay. The surprise, the immersion and unfamiliar topic reader. Since you can't see what Meredith and I are picturing in our minds, this book does contain, if not all the paintings and sculptures and like, fiber arts that came from his personal collection to be shown in this gallery. It's many, many of them. This is a heavily illustrated book, and his words are sharing his philosophy. You know, something I think I enjoyed about this, Meredith, is it felt like him saying after much thought, this is what is working for me. And I really appreciated the strong theory that I feel like you could bounce stuff off and think about what's he really saying. And he said some things that I think are really applicable to the reading life. He talks endlessly about how having the money to buy anything available means you don't end up with a very good collection.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Great. Yes, Great point.

[Anne Bogel]

And I just, I thought that was so interesting. He's like, you think you don't want no limitations? You think like, oh, I only have $50,000 to spend. What could I possibly. But people operating within the confines of Tight budgets have to be really thoughtful about what they want to bring into their lives. And also the way he talked about now, I don't think this is as applicable to the reading life, but he talked about how the common advice is just like, oh, buy what you love, buy what you love immediately. But he said that's not a way to end up with a very interesting collection.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yeah, I think that's a really great observation from him and for you to call it out as well. When I think about what ends up on my five star shelf, they are things that I loved, but I also think there are a lot of things on there that people are like, that book made your list next to this book. What puts them together? And I'm like, they just hit in a way.

[Anne Bogel]

Yeah. Now, I started by saying, I don't know how much that applies to books, but he does say, if all you do is buy the things that I'm adding words you already know that you love, there's nothing challenging there. And like good art should challenge it, should make you think it should not give up all its meaning at first glance. And I do think that I could bend that to say a lot of things about what brings me satisfaction in my reading life. Like a good book doesn't give up everything it has in its worlds when you're reading it the first time through, when you're really tired. Yeah, like good books are better than that. They demand more than that. Okay, now I think I might be taking Erling Kaga a little too far, but I'm glad you brought it to the show. All right, left turn. Tell me about a book that did not work for you. And please tell me, where was the.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Mismatch this came immediately to mind? The Knicks by Nathan Hill. I think I said in my submission that this was the book that single handedly ended my policy, which up to then had sort of been lifelong of finishing every book that I read. That was the book where I was like, I'm not doing that anymore.

[Anne Bogel]

I love that you can point to.

[Meredith Wiggins]

The one I remember where I was when I finished it and was like, never again. So this book is sort of an intergenerational family saga. It's also a satire, it's also sort of experimental fiction. And it's about a sort of failing academic who has been estranged from his mother for most of his life and she comes back into his life as an adult when she is caught on camera throwing some rocks. Though I think I remember it being more like Pebbles at a. At a political candidate. That she doesn't like. And the book goes into a lot of places of exploring like who was she that he didn't know? What is his life like? I'm not always a fan of like an intergenerational family saga anyway. Sometimes I enjoy them but. But for the most part family saga is not what I tend to reach for. But I think with this one, what made me feel so alienated from it as a reader was that I felt like the writing was very impressed with itself. I felt like a lot of the choices that were being made were designed to say look what I can make a book do. Look what I can make language do in a way that didn't serve the characters and didn't serve the story and just felt I kept thinking like self indulgent when I was reading it. And I. I mean I love the Goldfinch which is also I think a pretty self indulgent book in a lot of ways. But I thought always felt connected to who the character was and for whatever reason this book just really didn't work for me in that sense. It took me a long time to finish it. I remember I kept dragging it out and dragging it out and dragging it out, but I was determin to finish it. And when I finally did finish it I thought like, well, at least I'll feel accomplished that I stuck with it and I challenged myself and instead I felt like I punished myself. And so many people I know have told me that they really loved this book, that they thought it was really, I don't want to just say interesting again, but that they thought there was a lot to dig into and what they wanted to dig into I wanted to roll my eyes at. And so it's the book that I sort of go to because since then, if a book isn't working for me, I will tend to say either this is not for me or this is not for me right now and I'll just stop. But this is the book that I can point to that I was like, that was never going to be for me and I shouldn't have kept plugging away at it.

[Anne Bogel]

That's so interesting. I listened to this book on audio and I did it because I heard such good things, including from, I mean it was numerous mentions from what should I read next guest that pushed me over the edge. I don't notice as much about the prose when I'm listening on audio. I mean I can tell you if it worked. It didn't. But I'm not great at picking up structure and more of the craft. But it's the story that really, I think, hits hard when I listen. And the tone wasn't what I expected. Like, it was snarky and satirical, like almost farcical. And we have only talked about a limited number of books today. But I was wondering how that tone felt to you and how much that influenced it. Not working for you?

[Meredith Wiggins]

When I think about books that I've tended to really love or that have worked for me, I don't think a snarky tone or a satirical tone tends to be a major feature of those books. So it wouldn't surprise me if tonally, that was one of the reasons it didn't work.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, I'm just gonna think about that. Meredith, what have you been reading lately?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Recently, I feel like I've been reading a lot of nonfiction. I read a lot of Jon Krakauer in 2025, and I enjoyed pretty much all of it that included a couple of his bigger works. I read into the Wild. I read Into Thin Air. I also read a collection of some of his, like, magazine pieces that was really interesting. Loved that. I've also read sort of just a lot of books over the past few months, maybe year, that deal with accumulation, consumerism, collection. As I mentioned, I'm a big collector. I collect a lot of things and I don't have a big house. So I think a lot about, like, where is the line between this is a thing that I'm collecting for the enjoyment of it versus maybe I'm sliding more into the compulsive buying side of it. So I'm just about to start rereading a book that I did really love in 2025 called American Essays on Excess by Emily Mester. I think that's an essay collection where she sort of looks at a family history of hoarding and ties that into some disordered eating that she lived through. And just sort of the. I'm making it sound like such a bummer of a read, and it's not. It's funny and interesting and engaging. But I recommended that to a friend and so we're sort of pair reading it right now. And I think when I wrote into you, I was reading Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell Norell, I'm Never sure how to Pronounce that, by Susanna Clarke. Ended up not finishing that one. I loved the I'm saying tone a lot. I'm realizing that might be a thing for me. I loved the tone of it. I loved the narrator. But we were 200 pages into a 1,000 page book. And I still didn't know what the book was really going to do. And I felt like maybe that's time to put that one, put that one down for now. And I'm listening to Lord of Scoundrels by Loretta Chase on book, on cd in my car, which is a classic romance that is just as good as everybody told me that it was. Wonderful.

[Anne Bogel]

Book on cd.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes. I have a fairly old car, so I have a CD player and I don't have like Bluetooth connectivity in the car. And I found it at a library book sale for a quarter, brand new, unopened. And I was like, wow, this feels like the time. And it's wonderful. The narrator is Kate reading. She's fantastic. And it's just so charming and the characters are so compelling and interesting and it's so funny.

[Anne Bogel]

We've been talking about all the 80s and 90s media with our 15 year old lately. Got a tape deck adding to our CD collection. I just didn't see. Yeah, we'd really love a car with a CD player right now. I'll tell him and he'll be jealous.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Ah. Another book that was a five star read for me in this last sort of 18 months to two years was the English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt, which is the story of a young woman who learns that she was kidnapped at a very young age by the people who raised her. And she discovers this when they disappear. And she is told, by the way, you are an heiress who was kidnapped at birth. And it's how she navigates that experience using the very particular sort of social skills that her kidnappers slash sort of erstwhile parents imparted to her. And it's a novella, so it's a quick read. The first time I read it I felt like, am I missing something or did I, did I not read carefully enough? And then I just realized the narrator is very intentionally leaving sort of gaps and things that she says. I got to the end of the book, I was so delighted. I just flipped back to the first page and started again just so I could appreciate like all of the places that the author left clues that I had just not picked up on.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, no, because how could you?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yeah. And that one truly was a. Just picked it up on a whim in the airport because it has a Wayne. Is it Thibodeau or Thibaud? He does a lot of really beautiful paintings of food and dessert and he is a painter that my dear friend Harmony loves. So I picked it up intending it to be a gift for her. And then I read it myself and was like, no, I'm going to keep this. It was just a delight. I so enjoyed it.

[Anne Bogel]

All right, what that really says to me in Composite is you like books that are smart but maybe not necessarily sharp.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Ooh, that's a great way to put it. Yeah. Sometimes people will say, oh, have you like watched this TV show or something? And they'll be like, it's so great. It's brutal. And I'm like, I'm out. I don't need the brutality. Yeah, smart but not sharp. That's a perfect way to describe what I'm looking for.

[Anne Bogel]

I love it. Okay, can we talk about what you may enjoy reading next?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes, I would love that.

[Anne Bogel]

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[Meredith Wiggins]

I am actually going to be on a trip this weekend. I'm going to Flagstaff, Arizona with some friends. So I'll be on a plane for a few hours and then up in the mountains for a little bit. So if anything feels like it might be good to read, you know, on a trip, I'd love to hear about that.

[Anne Bogel]

Ooh. Well, I don't know. What do you like to read on a trip?

[Meredith Wiggins]

You know, maybe you don't hand me the hardback of the Goldfinch to take with me.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh.

[Meredith Wiggins]

But if it's, you know, available in ebook, that's fine.

[Anne Bogel]

Good point. I'm interested in handing you titles in a variety of genres that have elements that I think will appeal to you. So I'm looking for that four star kinds of things. I enjoy energy that are smart, well written, but not sharp, not snarky. I don't know that the word earnest characterizes your. I mean, that doesn't. It doesn't describe the English Understandable at all, but that's like devious and clever, but it's not farcical or satirical. And I'm just aware of that, that line between soft and hard, between like, playful and biting. And we want to stay on the playful side, I think. How does that sound?

[Meredith Wiggins]

That sounds great. Yeah. I have no objection to an earnest read, for the record.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay.

[Meredith Wiggins]

But I think playful but not biting is a great way to put it.

[Anne Bogel]

All right. I gotta say, you also really started some program in my brain when you talked about how you love art crime and art theft. And I might have really run away with that in art books in general. Are you interested in art books in general?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I am.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. I just read one that's going to be in the summer reading guide. That was so fun and I can't wait to talk about. But I'm going to, because it doesn't come out for a while and I'm sorry to be vague, but that's all I want to say. Meredith, we might talk about the that after.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Okay. All right, fantastic.

[Anne Bogel]

Y' all send in your submission and you'll get the secret. The secret recommendations as well. That's. What should I read next? Podcast.com guest okay, let's start like very straightforward artsy nonfiction. If that's okay with you. Now, I feel like you definitely may have found your way to these books already. Have you read the Art Thief by Michael Finkel?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I have and I really enjoyed it.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, excellent. What about get the Picture by Bianca Bosker?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Read it and loved it.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, yay. Okay, loved it. Glad to know, readers, if you are also interested in art crime and art theft, that is the subject, as you can imagine, of the art thief. But also Bianca Bosker is writing a just an ordinary person's insider work at the world of contemporary fine art. And those elements get touched on. But Meredith and I both said today we'd like to know how it works. And that book is about how it works and would be such an interesting companion to the heirlink Caga as well. Actually, I just pulled that off my shelf and handed it to Will for that reason.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I read get the Picture right before I read All Fours by Miranda July. And those made such a great pairing.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, that's fascinating. I didn't finish All Fours, but I'm intrigued by the comparison. What made those two go so well together?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Because it helped me think of All Fours as like the woman in the book, as essentially being engaged in like, non stop 247 performance art. Which is when you get to the end of the book, you learn that she's a writer. But reading that as like, huh, I think she's doing something similar to what some of the performance artists that Bianca works with did. Made for a really interesting way to approach that book, which was probably like a three and a half star read for me on its own. But paired with get the Picture, it made like, a really interesting thought that.

[Anne Bogel]

Makes me think of Kevin Wilson's the Family Fang.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I haven't read that.

[Anne Bogel]

Life as Performance Art. That might be interesting, but we're gonna go with another art book. I'm thinking a mystery where the plot is interesting and revolves around art and art crime. But the setting is so cool. This is the Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins. That came out Fall of Ooh. I almost said last year, but we're in a new one. Fall of 2024. Is this a book you're familiar with?

[Meredith Wiggins]

It is not.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. This is a thriller that's set in the world of fine art. The thing I love about this book, aside from the art, which we'll get to in a moment, is it has this very cool setting. So I was just fascinated by this island that's not an island. Ooh, it's Scottish. It's isolated. And the constantly running clock that Hawkins set in motion by setting her book in this place is just a fascinating dynamic in the story. But this is a thriller that's set in the world of fine art. It's about a reclusive artist who lives on the island alone. And she is cared for by her one local friend, Grace, and lots of people in the artist's life. The artist's name is Vanessa. Think that Grace is way too much up on her business and maybe doesn't deserve the level of access she has. But Vanessa trusts Grace implicitly. But to everyone's surprise, Vanessa bequeathed her art collection to a foundation. And Grace has always been overprotective. And she is not happy that the curator of this foundation is coming to the island to claim Vanessa's background notes and sketchbooks. But he's doing this because a human bone was found in one of Vanessa's pieces. And some are concerned that maybe it's not an animal, maybe it's human in origin because that's what the investigators think. And her ex husband went missing a few years back. And the idea that perhaps Vanessa or someone committed a terrible crime lingers over the story and they've got to get to the bottom of it while dealing with jealous, squabbling gallerists and talking about artists bodies of work and their legacies. There's a big exhibition at the Tate that factors prominently into the story and lots of tension in misdirection all around, not just about the art. How does that sound?

[Meredith Wiggins]

That sounds really intriguing. I'm not always huge into mystery and thriller, but everything that you're describing sounds up my alley. When you said there's a human bone found in one of her pieces, I felt my eyebrows fly up. So I'm extremely interested in that.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, well, I'm excited that you are interested now. I feel like you must have found your way to Alexis Hall's growing boyfriend trilogy beginning with boyfriend material.

[Meredith Wiggins]

I have read boyfriend material. I have not read husband material. I've read one of the other books set in that world, the 10 things that never Happened. I really liked that.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, I do really like the London Calling series for you. Boyfriend material, which you've already read and enjoyed. Husband material. And there's a new one coming out this summer called Father Material, which I've seen around, haven't looked into, don't know anything else. But you can get the general gist, I think, from the title. Meredith, have you read the History of Sound by Ben Shattuck?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I have not.

[Anne Bogel]

This could be really interesting for you. It's. I was about to say it's not set in the world of fine art, but there are artifacts and paintings that do actually feature in the story. But this is definitely one that came to mind as the setting being immersive and fascinating and ever changing because this is a book of stories. But the plot definitely takes a backseat to the, I think, atmosphere that he develops as a whole. I've talked about this on the podcast about a year ago, and I almost chose this for one of my very best books of 2025. Now, what I love isn't necessarily going to be what you love, but just wanted to put that out there in case any listeners are interested. This is a collection of short stories and the structure is really interesting. These are styled as a hook and chain poem, which I've not heard of before, and it's not a poem. But he's using this poetic structure to present stories in pairs. And I listened to this book, I went in not knowing anything and at first I didn't realize until I heard the first instance of a second follow up story that provided a totally different perspective on what was shared in the first story. And the way this world walks together is just really fascinating, or at least it was for me as a reader. The first and last stories, they are a pair and they kind of bracket the whole thing. So I really think or I how about I hope you're a book abandoner. I hope the first story will reach out and grab you. It's a tale of first love. It's set primarily in Maine in the summer of 1919. And there are two young male musicians who are on this fascinating journey, walking across the state, talking to strangers and using their like almost primitive compared to what we have now. Tools to take recordings of folk songs and ballads that these strangers they're meeting will sing for them and play for them. And what they come away from me with, aside from this experience together, which is formative and in ways neither anticipated, they come away with all these wax cylinders that hold the voices and instruments of these strangers they met in Maine. But we also find out what happens Years later in 1984, when one of these men, who is now an extremely successful musical scholar, receives a package in the mail that is all those wax cylinders that somebody has found in a house he used to live in. And he's like wistfully looking back at what happened back then. The thing about the story I just described is it's totally different than the other stories in the book, but they all drop you into this moment in time that is vivid and atmospheric and fascinating. Like I don't know anything about Nantucket or living by the sea or wax cylinders from 1919, but also emotionally resonant in ways I just didn't anticipate. The collection as a whole hangs together really well. It's not quite a novel in stories, but it is a collection that's more interlinked than many short story collections are. And I love the experience as a whole. How is this sound?

[Meredith Wiggins]

That sounds really intriguing. You said drop you into a moment in time and I love when I feel like a book or a movie trusts you to figure things out a little bit as you're going along that sort of drop in and out and not spending a ton of time setting the stage for you. That sounds really intriguing and I love a sort of multiple perspective on a singular time or event.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, finally I want to go back to the world of fine art with a Jean Hampf Corlet story called the Latecomer. Is this one you have read?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I've never heard of this.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, well she's the author of the plot and the sequel, but she is multi talented and this is a very different kind of story for readers who just found her through those two books. This is the decades long story of a wealthy Brooklyn family and their triplets, who throughout the book are known as the smart one, the weird one, and the girl. And these triplets were conceived with the help of ivf. And when they were born, the mother took that last embryo and she put it on ice for one day just in case. And that time does arrive. So when the triplets reach college age, they go off to school and that's when it really comes to stunningly to life that this family never quite gelled. Like the siblings act like strangers. Like to the extent that when two of the kids go off to Cornell, nobody knows they're related. Like nobody has a. Like they don't see each other, they have no idea what's going on in each other's lives and no one even knows they're related. So their mother is like, well my first pancake of my three children did not turn out like let me try this again. And she decides to thaw that fourth embryo and have another child. And the arrival of that child leads to upheaval and mayhem and the exposure of some deeply devastating slash juicy family secrets. But something I love for this book and the reason that we're talking about it, is that the father of this family is an avid collector of modern Art. And throughout the book, we home in on his perspective and we hear the painting he first fell in love with it, how he acquired it, what he paid, how he was praised for his good eye, what that did and didn't mean to him, what his art meant to him, where he stores it in Brooklyn and who he takes to see it and when. And that art matters in the plot of this book. And those details that add so much texture and fascination and just intellectual interest to the story are a big reason it came up in this conversation. Also, there's like a hoarding subplot.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Ooh.

[Anne Bogel]

And I thought it was interesting that that thread came up today as well. Does this sound like something you'd maybe give a try?

[Meredith Wiggins]

Yes, I would definitely give that a try. Like I mentioned, I'm not always into a family saga, but the way you've described this one makes it sound, I don't know, like it could really be up my alley.

[Anne Bogel]

I'll be so curious to hear what you think. And I'm also curious, when you're reading about all these works and the art crimes and the things that happened, are you a Googler? Do you want to see pictures and do you want to read about the details of the heists and thefts? Sometimes There's a lot to Google in this book. If you are okay.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Do you feel like it holds together if you don't Google?

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, absolutely. Well, luckily you don't need to know how to pronounce the names to Google. But if you're curious to see the, like, patterns of dots and grids and slashes that is being described in the book, you can absolutely Google. But you don't have to. They're just referencing artists by name. If you think that's fun, you will have fun with it. And if you don't care, you will miss nothing.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Great.

[Anne Bogel]

We talked about a lot of books today, and we left you with three. So, Meredith, I'd love to hear what you are interested in picking up next from the Blue Hour by Paula Hawkins, the History of Sound by Ben Shattuck, and the Latecomer by Jean Hampf Corlitz. Oh, my gosh. And you're going to the mountains. Of those three, what are you thinking? And are any of them mountain material?

[Meredith Wiggins]

I feel like I might go with the latecomer because that one feels like it's surprise me the most when you were describing it.

[Anne Bogel]

I do love a good surprise. And I remember that the. The surprise of it really worked for one of your five stars.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Okay, it did.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, I will be so curious to hear what you think. Thanks so much for talking books with me today.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Thank you so much for having me. This has been an absolute delight.

[Anne Bogel]

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Meredith and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find Meredith on Goodreads. We've got that link as well as the full list of titles we talked about today at what Should I read next podcast.com follow our show on Instagram at what Should I Read Next? For more literary posts and inspiration, sign up for our email list at what Should I read next? Podcast.com newsletter we send out updates on our latest episodes as well as all the news to know about upcoming events, new merch and more. And please make sure you're following in Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, Overcast, wherever you like to get your podcast. That helps us a lot and makes sure you know about our newest episodes. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Production Specialist Holly Wilkachevsky, Social Media Manager and Editor Lee Kramer, and Community Coordinator Bridget Mistlehorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone and our whole team at what Should I Read Next? And Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ with help from the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Productions. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and as writer Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.

[Meredith Wiggins]

Sa.