Ep 516: Don't overthink your buddy reads

Summary

What Should I Read Next?
Ep 516: Don’t Overthink Your Buddy Reads
Host: Anne Bogel
Date: March 3, 2026
Guest: Ruth Verwei

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Anne Bogel connects with longtime listener Ruth Verwei, who has been living in Germany (originally from Vancouver, Canada). Ruth and her sister, separated by continents, have formed a “book club of two”—using buddy reads to stay emotionally connected. However, Ruth finds herself overthinking book selections, worrying about mutual enjoyment and conversation potential, and seeks Anne’s expertise to find titles that will bridge their distinct tastes and spark meaningful discussion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Ruth’s Reading Life and Buddy-Read Challenge

• Ruth describes herself as a lifelong reader and learner, now comfortably juggling print, audio, and digital books—adapting after her move to Germany where English print options were limited.
  • "I love learning new things. It kind of has defined my...professional life and also my personal life." (06:46; Ruth)
• Reading together with her sister is "not really a book club…it’s very low stakes," accommodating time differences and library schedules.
  • “Sometimes we don’t even read them synchronously… and that’s totally fine.” (10:46; Ruth)
• Ruth feels pressure and tends to overthink book suggestions, wanting them to fit both her and her sister.
  • “I get, you know, sometimes over invested in book topics… I kind of try and bring all these aspects into a choice…rather than sometimes just spontaneously saying, oh this looks good…” (12:43; Ruth)
• Anne reassures her: "No such thing [as being overinvested]. And yet also, I think I understand what you’re talking about.” (12:10; Anne)

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Books That Work for Both Sisters

1. Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton

• Chosen for its humor and relatability; memoirs often work well for both.
• Dolly Alderton’s perspective on friendship and evolving relationships resonated, as did the “sisterly” aspect of the central friendship.
  • "I remember us sitting…on the couch in my living room…one of us [was] rolling down onto the floor because we were laughing so hard.” (09:56; Ruth)
  • “…the central relationship…is really her friendship with her childhood best friend...that was really actually representative of what it means also to be a sister.” (19:11; Ruth)
• Format matters: both enjoyed it as an audiobook, with Alderton narrating (18:00+).

2. Kakigori Summer by Emily Itami

• A character-driven, “warm-hearted” novel about three grown sisters brought together by a family crisis.
• Ruth loved the eldest sister’s perspective as an expat re-entering Japanese culture, which resonated with her own international experience.
  • “It felt like a hug and when I finished the book I just like want to hug it.” (21:00; Ruth)

3. Famous Last Words by Gillian McAllister

• Both enjoy McAllister’s blend of thriller, complex character development, and family themes.
• Appreciated for combining suspenseful plot with emotional resonance around motherhood and relationships.
  • “Her books have all been five stars from both of us…about the mystery, but they’re also about motherhood and marriage and being a human…” (24:00; Ruth)
• Noted that McAllister’s books are ideal for their blend of plot (“twists,” which her sister prefers) and deep character engagement (favored by Ruth).

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A Book That Missed the Mark

Bear by Julia Phillips

• Both found it lacking in character motivation and emotional resonance, despite a strong setting and solid writing.
  • “I didn’t have any qualms there, but…I was sort of missing some elements…not really understanding their motivation.” (26:35; Ruth)
  • “The relationship between them didn’t really resonate.” (26:55; Ruth)

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What They’ve Been Reading Lately (and Enjoying)

• Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy: “Five stars from both of us” (28:29; Ruth)
• Sisters in the Wind by Angeline Boulley: Positive so far; appeals to their interest in sibling stories (28:33).
• The Ministry of Time by Kayleigh Ann Bradley: Excited to try a new genre together (29:01).

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Defining Their Overlap & Tastes

• Ruth: moody, character-driven literary fiction, poetry, romance.
• Her sister: plot-driven, twisty mysteries and thrillers.
• Both enjoy emotionally resonant books, memoirs, “sad millennial girl fiction” (with humorous or ‘Fleabag’ vibes), and occasional stories featuring siblings.
  • “On paper, it doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of crossover, but…” (30:30; Ruth)
  • “We have tended to enjoy that [sibling stories].” (31:38; Ruth)

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Anne’s Book Recommendations

1. Forgotten on Sunday by Valérie Perrin (tr. Hildegarde Serle)

• French novel, not originally in English; strong theme of found/family and sibling-style bonds.
• Spans a century, combining intricate plotting and emotional craftsmanship.
• “Strong life-giving, intergenerational relationships, really thorny, intricate family dynamics and also like lots of pain, but lots of hope to go with it.” (37:51; Anne)
• Noted for its "setup and payoff" structure, dramatic revelations, and French sensibility.
• Ruth’s response: “Honestly, it sounds amazing. I really like what you’re saying about the… big payoff… I think that is very intriguing.” (38:51; Ruth)

2. The Good Life by Virginie Grimaldi (tr. Hildegarde Serle)

• Also French in origin; a quieter sister story about estrangement, reunion, painful history, humor as coping.
• Anne: “Not as much as Perrin, but if Forgotten on Sunday works for you, that could be a good one.” (40:24; Anne)
• Ruth: “Definitely sounds like something up my alley…processing things, but coming together to do that, I think sounds really interesting.” (40:31; Ruth)

3. Trust Her by Flynn Berry

• Modern, twisty thriller set in Northern Ireland; highly discussable moral/ethical tensions, surprise resolutions, and strong depiction of sisterly bonds.
• “Barry drops you right into the middle of the action…” (41:53; Anne)
• The protagonist Tessa’s choices are deeply bracketed by loyalty to her sister.
• Also recommended: Northern Spy (same author), and—should Ruth wish to go deeper—Trespasses by Louise Kennedy for related themes.
• Ruth: “It sounds amazing… when you said the central question… that was really not where I was expecting to go… this sounds incredible, like going on the list right away.” (43:39; Ruth)

4. The Irish Goodbye by Beth Ann Fennelly

• Nonfiction “micro memoirs” and essays; explores sisterly loss, expatriate life, friendship, marriage, and middle age.
• “There are maybe a half dozen essays in here that are quite long… I love the micro memoirs for you, but also the long essays…” (46:03; Anne)
• Touching, artful, and often humorous, but with serious emotional content around the death of Fennelly’s sister.
• Ruth: “Indeed, I think it could be really interesting and work for us… the mix of the two [essay styles] is also intriguing.” (47:36; Ruth)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Overthinking:
  Ruth: “I do wonder sometimes if part of the problem is I overthink it because I tend to do that and also because I get, you know, sometimes over invested in book topics.” (00:00) Anne: “No such thing. And yet also I think I understand what you’re talking about.” (00:10)

• On Laughing Together:
  Ruth: “I remember us sitting, like, on the couch in my living room and, like, just being one of us, like, rolling down onto the floor because we were laughing so hard.” (09:56)

• On Emotional Resonance:
  Anne: “The emotional resonance I’m really hearing coming through the books you loved…” (26:35)

• On the Power of Reading Across Distance:
  Anne: “I hope to recommend titles that will make for ideal sister book club picks.” (04:18)

• On Sad Millennial Girl Fiction and Fleabag Vibes:
  Ruth: “Those books also really work quite well…fleabag vibes, you said, bonus points for stories featuring siblings.” (31:34)

• On “Forgotten on Sunday”:
  Anne: “Her work has been praised in the original language translation… but I wonder if this combination of intricate plotting, really beautiful craftsmanship… and just like sensational fireworks in the plot is gonna work for both of you.” (35:34)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ruth’s Intro, Family, and Buddy Reading Concept: 04:50–13:32
• Reading Taste Overlap & Differences: 16:36–31:38
• Books That Worked: 16:53–25:26
• Book That Didn’t Work: 25:36–28:06
• Recent Reads and Reading Preferences: 28:10–34:21
• Anne’s Recommended Titles (Deep Dive): 34:55–51:24
• Ruth’s Reaction and Next Steps: 51:56–52:40

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Episode Flow and Tone

Anne and Ruth’s conversation is warm, introspective, and practical—full of humor and camaraderie. Together, they explore the peculiar joys and subtle challenges of buddy reading at a distance, ultimately affirming the value of literature in sustaining emotional bonds across the miles. Anne’s recommendations flex to fit both sisters’ needs, subtly encouraging Ruth to trust her instincts and ease the pressure of “perfect” selection.

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Final Thoughts

Ruth is most excited to pitch “Trust Her” by Flynn Berry as their next buddy read but will review the full list of Anne’s thoughtful selections with her sister. Anne encourages Ruth—and listeners—to embrace the joy in surprise connections and emotional resonance, rather than striving for perfection in every pick.

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Relevant Episode Quotes:

• “I’m definitely going to take this whole list and talk about it with her, but I have a feeling we’re going to go with Trust Her.” (52:04; Ruth)
• “Oh, I would love that for you.” [re: overthinking less, having more fun] (30:12; Anne)

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For the full list of titles and show notes, visit whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Ruth Verwei]

I do wonder sometimes if part of the problem is I overthink it because I tend to do that and also because I get, you know, sometimes over invested in in book topics.

[Anne Bogel]

What I want to say no such thing. And yet also I think I understand what you're talking about

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

hey readers, I'm Anne Bogle and this is what should I read next? Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest. Readers Our dog Daisy looks forward to dinner time every day. She gets so excited as mealtime approaches and makes sure that we know it. Now, maybe that's just her personality, but I think it also has to do with giving her quality food like the personalized dog food from the Pet's Table. The Pets Table was created by the team behind HelloFresh. They offer both human grade fresh and gently air dried options. You can also mix both to see what your pup prefers. Their air dried plan is shelf stable, but unlike kibble, it's minimally processed to preserve actual nutrients, giving your dog the protein, vitamins, antioxidants they need to support gut and immune health, a healthy coat

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[Anne Bogel]

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[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Readers Today I'm joined by a guest who is looking for titles to help bridge the large geographic gap between her and her sister. Ruth Verwei hails from Vancouver, Canada, but she's lived in Germany with her family for over a decade. Recently, she and her sister have created a book club of two, as they found that reading books together helps them feel close even while they're physically far apart. But when it comes to finding the right books, Ruth is feeling a bit stymied. A few recent selections have been, in

[Anne Bogel]

Ruth's words, flops, and she's worried she's overthinking it.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

That specific conundrum is what brings Ruth to what should I read next. Today, she would love to feel more confident about recommending books for them that both she and her sister will enjoy. And since they use these books to spark conversation, it's important that the selected titles not only reflect their diverse reading tastes, but also give them plenty to talk about. Today, Ruth and I will try to suss out where their reading tastes overlap, and I hope to recommend titles that will make for ideal sister book club picks. Let's get to it. Ruth, welcome to the show.

[Ruth Verwei]

Hi Ann, thanks so much for having me.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure. I Remember, just grinning real big, reading your submission, thinking, oh, we could have a fun conversation. So thanks for coming on so we can do that today.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that. And I really can't wait to dive in.

[Anne Bogel]

I know you've been listening for a long time. I hope it feels well. How does it feel to be in this seat today?

[Ruth Verwei]

It honestly feels really, really great. I have been listening for quite a while, since the beginning, actually, on and off. But yeah, I remember just thinking from the very first episode that I heard this is going to be a really great show. And I think, yeah, you have now like 10 years to back that up. So it feels really, really great to have an actual conversation with you after listening to you in my headphones so long.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, well, that is so kind. I'm glad we're finally getting to meet like this in a, in a different way. You get to me and be in my ears instead of me just being in yours.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, exactly.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Well, Ruth, would you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[Anne Bogel]

We would like to give our readers

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

a glimpse of who you are.

[Ruth Verwei]

I am originally from Vancouver, Canada, but I've been living in Germany with my husband and my son for the last 14 to 15 years. I live in a small town pretty much right in the middle of the country. It's called Marburg. It's a university town. There's just under 80,000 people that live here. It's very cute. It's kind of what I think a lot of North Americans picture in their mind when they picture Germany.

[Anne Bogel]

The town square and the clock tower and the half timbered buildings.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yes, exactly. Yeah. There's an old town that sort of built up on a mountain and then on the top of. Well, it's a hill, not a mountain, but on the top of the hill is a castle. So yeah, it's quite picturesque.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, it sounds lovely. I got to visit my son who was studying abroad in Germany. Oh, gosh. I guess now that we're in 2026, it was almost two years and I mean, ever since we landed in the US again, I've been eager to get back.

[Ruth Verwei]

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's good. I'm really happy living here right now. We are really enjoying kind of the close proximity to a lot of other countries to travel around. We're also a bilingual family, so we speak both German and English at home. Kind of depending on everybody's mood or often who starts the conversation. It's really nice. I quite enjoy that. But yes. So I live here now. I guess I Would describe myself kind of as a lifelong reader, but also a lifelong learner. So I feel like it's just. I love learning new things. It kind of has defined my. My professional life and also my personal life. I have a lot of hobbies. In a nutshell, I'm basically a working mom who's trying to balance all the different commitments with family, friends, and everything that you have to do, also with everything you want to do and all your hobbies.

[Anne Bogel]

Yes, that is relatable.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Ruth, tell us about your reading life.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, so reading has definitely been probably my longest passion and hobby, I would say, ever since I was little, actually, when I watched the Beauty and the Beast movie, and there's the scene, you know, where Belle is swinging on a ladder across a bookshelf. That was, for me, like, I just fell in love with that scene and I wanted a bookshelf with a ladder and. Yeah, kind of dreaming about. About that. I used to go to the library a lot as a kid. I actually originally wanted to be a librarian, which didn't happen, but you never know. Yeah. And honestly, I feel like just since my childhood, I never really stopped. I kind of just grew my. My love of reading and. Yeah, also kind of my. My commitment to it, I would say. I also feel like in the past five years, I really hit a stride. I kind of landed on a good feel for my reading life with how many books I'm reading. I'm really happy, actually, right now. I don't really want to read more, but also not less. I also, like, I'm sort of now bouncing around between print books, audio, and digital, and that's also really good. That was a big adjustment, actually, since moving here, because when I first moved here, it was quite hard for me to find a lot of books in English. So that really forced me to try reading digitally, which I did not think I would like, and ended up loving. Try audiobooks, which, again, I did not think would be for me, but definitely are. So, yeah, that's been really great.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I'm glad to hear it. Ruth, you've been a listener for a long time. What brings you to the show at

[Anne Bogel]

this season of your life?

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, so I think actually it kind of goes back to what I was just saying about. I feel like I've kind of hit a stride for my own personal reading life. I'm really happy with how things are. I also feel like I'm trying a lot of new things for my own self. You know, I am always looking for, like, to read more diversely, to read more widely. Read a lot of books in translation if I can. So I'm always kind of pushing my. My own reading boundaries and finding new. New content for myself. But I have kind of a new struggle that's been introduced to my reading life. Actually, it's not a struggle. It's. It's a very good thing. But it brought kind of some challenges with it, and that is that a couple years ago, I started doing buddy reading with my sister. So actually, how this started is she came. She came to visit me, and she. My sister is also. She's really been kind of a reader a bit more off and on. So she kind of had a break where she wasn't that into reading, but then recently moved down the street from a public library branch. And that just really kind of set her off again, which, of course, I was really excited about and wanted to, like, involve myself in and support, I guess you could say. Anyway, she was visiting me, and we decided to try listening to an audiobook together. And we picked just kind of like at random, we picked yearbook by Seth Rogen. And this was such a fun experience to, like, listen to this audiobook together. So, I mean, I'm from Vancouver. She lives in Vancouver. There's a lot of, like, you know, Vancouver moments in there that just added this kind of extra layer, but also it's just really funny. So I remember us sitting, like, on the couch in my living room and, like, just being one of us, like, rolling down onto the floor because we were laughing so hard. Sometimes these things are funnier also when you experience them with other people. So. Yeah. And then she went home again. And then, of course, I mean, you know, I try and stay in touch with. With as much of my family that I can, but it's not always easy, especially because I'm the one who's living somewhere else and they're kind of all together. So, you know, you really got to stay on top of texting and facetime and all these really amazing digital tools that we have for connection. But I was kind of, like, thinking maybe we can bring reading into that to add, like, another layer of it. So, yeah, so we decided to start doing these buddy reads together. It's not really a book club. It's, like, very low stakes, so we sometimes don't even read them synchronously. Basically, we kind of just pick a book that we both want to read and we commit to reading that, and we try and read it around the same time as each other. But sometimes, you know, she gets it from the library has to read it really fast, and I haven't managed to get it yet. And so I kind of catch up, and that's totally fine.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, so you're enjoying this. We've heard about the joys. What have more of the challenges been?

[Ruth Verwei]

While I really, I feel confident picking books for myself, I've had some struggles picking books for this buddy reading. And actually, my sister, she's a little better at it. I do wonder sometimes if part of the problem is I overthink it, because I tend to do that and also because I get, you know, sometimes over invested in.

[Anne Bogel]

In book topics, what I want to say. No such thing. And yet also, I think I understand what you're talking about.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah. Like, just the stakes feel so high. Whereas, you know, she's kind of able to, like, hop into the library or the bookstore and take a look what looks interesting and then suggest two or three things. And I'm like, you know, researching over here and thinking about themes and, like, styles and before I make a suggestion. Ooh.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. So there's really throwing yourself into the pleasure of choosing, but there's also maybe feeling, like, clenched up and unhelpfully rigid, or is that just. Am I just projecting?

[Ruth Verwei]

I mean, maybe it could be, I think maybe also, like, I think it's the overthinking aspect. Like, I just think I kind of try and bring all these aspects into a choice that I make rather than sometimes just spontaneously saying, oh, this looks good, let's just give it a try. Because I want to be picking books that she's going to enjoy, but also that I'm going to enjoy. Yeah, it's hard to hit that balance sometimes. Okay.

[Anne Bogel]

Ruth, I'm really excited about this challenge question. I'm excited to suss out what's going on here, and I'd love to hear about the books you chose for today

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

because you told me in your submission

[Anne Bogel]

how you chose them. I think that's going to be really helpful. And then we'll suss out what else we need to know in order to find some books that you'll enjoy, hopefully reading together next. Is that our plan here? Does that feel good? That.

[Ruth Verwei]

That feels great. Yeah. And indeed, I did choose these ones very much with both of our reading taste in mind.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, that sounds perfect.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Anne Bogel]

well, you know how this

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

works then you're going to tell me

[Anne Bogel]

about three books you both enjoyed, a book that wasn't right for you and what you've been reading lately. And then we'll, we'll see where it takes us. What's the first book you chose that represents what you all have both enjoyed?

[Ruth Verwei]

So the first book that I chose is actually one that we read before we started doing the buddy read, but it was just such a. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, it was such a good experience and really, like, I just felt like it was very representative. So I threw it in here anyways. And that is Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton. So Dolly, actually we've also read one of her novels together, so she's an author that both of us really like. She's also around.

[Anne Bogel]

Which one? Ruth, you can slide in an extra title.

[Ruth Verwei]

Okay. Yeah, we read good material.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, okay. That seems like a great pick based on what I know about your submission that the readers haven't heard yet.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yes. Yeah, so it was, it was great. It kind of hit that, like, character driven but also like quirky humor aspect, which is another thing that my sister really likes. She's very much into comedy. And that one's also quite funny. So. Yeah, that one really worked as well for us.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I'm glad to hear it. What format did you all do that in?

[Ruth Verwei]

For the novel, good material. We read the print book. And then for the memoir, Everything I Know About Love, I did the audio and I'm pretty sure that she did as well.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. I was curious about the format because you had talked about how you didn't think audio would work for you, but it really has. And I just so happened to listen to Dolly Alderton read Everything I Know About Love and thought it was really lovely in that format. But I read the E galley of good material. I read that on my Kindle.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah. So I agree that the audio for Everything I Know About Love, honestly, I have a very clear memory of this actually similar to the other audiobook that I was talking about. So I read this. It was in the pandemic, it was a lockdown Christmas, and I was in the kitchen, I remember, like, cooking dinner for my family. And I had to stop because I was, like, laughing so hard about it. Said, like, right at the beginning where she's talking about her experience using MSN messenger, it was just so funny. And I think that's one part of the reason why this book worked for us. It was very relatable. I mean, Dolly is a similar age to the two of us. So, yeah, a lot of the things that she talked about, like growing up or the time when she left school and started at university, this was all, like, a similar time frame to our own experience. So I think that kind of added another layer of enjoyment. But I would say, like, one of the big things and the big reasons that this worked. Memoir actually tends to work quite well for us. And this one, I think, worked really well also because, I mean, when you look at it, it's obviously, it's Dolly Alderton's own story, but the central relationship at the core of this book is really her friendship with her childhood best friend and this, like, layer of female friendship. And I remember there's one quote in the book where she says something like, along the lines of, your love for the. For the. The other person doesn't change, but the. The format of it does and the way it looks. And I feel like that was really actually representative of. Of what it means also to. To be a sister. You know, you have, like, a different kind of love when you're a kid, and that love is the same, but it just looks different and shows up kind of at different points in your life.

[Anne Bogel]

So.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, so this one was definitely five stars from both of us.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. Noted on the sister story as well. Both kind of like a found created sister relationship. But I remember her best friend's sister being a prominent character in this book.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Am I remembering that correctly?

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, I actually hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, it has been a little while since I read it, but indeed. Yeah, good point.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. All right, well, we'll make a note of that. Ruth, what's the second book you both loved?

[Ruth Verwei]

This was actually my favorite book of 2025, and also I think my sister's. And that is Kakigori Summer by Emily Itami. Have you read this book, Anne?

[Anne Bogel]

I have.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I have. I love her.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yes.

[Anne Bogel]

I mean, she has two novels so far, and I'm ready for another one already. But I do. I've loved her work.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah. So this one especially, I also read her Previous novel, Fault Lines, but this one, especially to me, I just like. It felt like a hug and when I finished the book I just like want to hug it. It's just like a very. It's a very warm hearted story. It's about three sisters, grown up sisters who are living all. Well, one of them lives in England, two of them are, are in Tokyo I think. But they have all kind of left their childhood home and there's a crisis, a family crisis, which I won't say exactly what it was, but basically brings all the sisters together and they end up back in their childhood home, living across the street from their grandmother and coming across and back in contact with childhood acquaintances and also with each other because they have been apart for quite a while. So yeah, and just navigating some difficult emotional moments but also just being together. And I thought like, just for me personally, I really enjoyed the perspective of the oldest sister who is living abroad and when she comes home and at the beginning of the book when she flies from London to Tokyo and just how she describes that experience of arriving back in Tokyo was super, I thought, super well done and incredibly relatable. So I really like that aspect as well.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Ruth, this novel is a little quieter

[Anne Bogel]

than the picture I've gotten from your submission. And what you've said off the record about what your sister enjoys, would you say more about how this connected for each of you?

[Ruth Verwei]

Indeed. I think for me it was like quite obvious. It's a very character driven novel and I really kind of like that. I like slower, often slower books. And once I kind of dive more deep into why people make the decisions that they do, I often say I don't actually need the book to have that much of a plot. I mean, I enjoy books with plot for sure, but if it's not there, it's not a deal breaker for me and for my sister it actually tends to be kind of the opposite. She definitely like, she loves very twisty sort of mystery thriller books really books that keep you guessing to the end. I mean, obviously I can't speak for her, but my feeling for why this would work is that it wasn't necessarily like a romance where you know, okay, this is going to be a happy ending. These two people are most likely going to get together and now we just figure out how this one was like it was kind of diving more into layers of the characters, but also you weren't really sure the whole time where it was going. You know, how are these characters going to resolve? You hope for a happy ending But I feel like maybe it wasn't quite so obvious from the beginning how we were going to get there.

[Anne Bogel]

That's a great example.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Thank you. Ruth.

[Anne Bogel]

What's the third book you both love?

[Ruth Verwei]

Famous Less Words from Gillian McAllister. And actually, I could have put probably any of Gillian McAllister's books into this third slot. This is just the one that we most recently read together because, yeah, her books have all been five stars for, from both of us. And actually, I think this really illustrates the point that I was kind of talking about before, where we have in these books. So they're thrillers and they're like, there's a lot of stuff going on with the plot, but there's also a lot of stuff going on with the characters. And they are, you know, they are about the mystery, but they're also about motherhood and marriage and being a human and kind of all that stuff sort of layers in together. So this one is about Camilla and she is just going back to work after maternity leave. It's actually the morning where she's returning to the office. She wakes up and her husband is not there. So it's a bit strange, a bit unusual, but, you know, she has to continue on with her morning, take her child to. To daycare and get herself to the office. And before she leaves the house, she notices she. He's left her a note, but she's kind of not really sure what does this note mean, not really sure what to. What to do with that. So she heads out for the day to kind of, you know, take down her to do list and kind of with this thought in her mind, what's, what's going on? And then when she gets to work on the news, there's a hostage situation that unfolds and it turns out her husband is involved. And this is obviously very surprising. And the novel kind of walks us through what happened, not only what happened on that day, but also what happened in the previous weeks leading up to this and then carries on several years into the future. So, yeah, this was, I think, because of the plot aspects and also the character elements and also the romance. I saw somebody, I think, on Instagram that said this was a book that didn't know if it wants to be a thriller or a romance. And I think actually that kind of hits on the point of why it worked for both of us.

[Anne Bogel]

That's so interesting. When I saw you both enjoyed Gillian McAllister, it made intuitive sense. I understand how any book of hers would have worked. We'll talk More about that, I think.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Ruth, tell me about a book that

[Anne Bogel]

was not a good fit. And is this also for both of you?

[Ruth Verwei]

Yes, it is. And this is one that I picked. So both of the last two books that I shared that we read this summer, so the Emily Itami one and Jillian McAllister, my sister, picked those, and I picked Bear by Julia Phillips. And this one did not work for either of us. There was definitely some good elements to it. So I would not say, of course, I don't hate this book. I also wouldn't say that nobody should read it. I think in a lot of cases, it could work quite well. It has a beautiful setting. The writing is also quite solid. I didn't have any qualms there, but I think for both of us, it just kind of fell flat, the plot. To me, I was sort of missing some elements, but also on the characters, I just. I felt like there was not really. I don't need to love characters or even like them, but in this case, I didn't understand them. I didn't really understand their motivation. So, yeah, I think that's kind of where it fell apart.

[Anne Bogel]

Ruth, I'm kind of building out a theory in my head, and if you could just say a little bit more about how this book didn't connect with your sister and yourself, that would be really helpful to let me know if I'm headed in the right direction or not. Like, I'm wondering if, like, the emotional resonance I'm really hearing coming through the books you loved was absent here.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, I think there's a very good chance that that was the case. I think that in this case, we have two sisters. They live on a small island off the coast of Washington, just south of Vancouver Island. They're kind of stuck there. They've been planning for quite a while to leave, and then through the course of events, they end up staying. And a big catalyst for this is that a bear shows up on the island and sort of changes just the way that the sisters interact with each other, the way that one of them definitely thinks about the island. They're no longer on the same page about this plan for the future. I think what was really missing is, for me, there was not a lot of understanding with the character's motivations. So we see their actions, but I didn't really feel like I knew why. I also felt like, you see their relationship playing out, and some parts definitely were believable, but indeed, I don't think it really. The relationship between them didn't really resonates And I think just that having that kind of the lack of character development and really, like, characters that you feel like you could root for and the lack of, like an interesting plot, I think kind of made it fall apart in our case.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. Ruth, what have you been reading lately?

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, so I again picked some books that we've been doing buddy reads of lately. So in the fall, just before Christmas, we did Wild Dark Shore along with Half of the Rest of the world by Charlotte McConaughey. And that one was again, five stars from both of us. It was very good.

[Anne Bogel]

Cloudy, surprising, emotionally resonant.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay.

[Ruth Verwei]

And then we did Sisters in the Wind. So actually Sisters in the Wind by Angeline Boulley. So actually I finished this one. I don't know that she has, but that was indeed so far so good. I've read all of Angeline Boulley's books, so when I saw this one come out, I thought maybe it would be an interesting one to try the two of us. And then the new one that we're planning to start, so I got given as a gift for Christmas, and then she found at the library is the Ministry of Time by Callie Ann Bradley. And I only am just starting it, but so far the premise looks. Looks really intriguing and I think it will be fun to try something kind of in a different genre than we've tried before. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes with that one, Ruth.

[Anne Bogel]

So we are going to use those books and what you said about them that you brought to the show to find some books your sister and you will both enjoy.

[Ruth Verwei]

That sounds amazing.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay. And you said that you'd love them to spark conversation and bring you closer across the long distance.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, indeed. I think obviously not every book is gonna be a five star book, but I think if we can both thank you for that, at least, you know, be in the realm of enjoying it, then I think we're completely on the right page. And I think what you said about emotional resonance is really interesting to me. I hadn't actually really picked that up, but indeed, I would like to. Also. I'm excited to see what ideas you have and also maybe to learn from some of that so I can kind of maybe in the future overthink a little bit less when I'm making the suggestions.

[Anne Bogel]

Oh, I would love that for you. Okay.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

And then you also said in your

[Anne Bogel]

submission that your sister prefers plot driven, twisty novels, mysteries and thrillers that surprise you and that you're into moody Character driven literary fiction and also poetry and romance.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah. On paper, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of crossover, but.

[Anne Bogel]

Wait, what? I think we got plenty. I'm really excited about what you all could read together.

[Ruth Verwei]

Okay, that's good. No, that's really good to know, but indeed, I think that's like, you know, that's the kind of. The general summary, I think, obviously there's exceptions to that, but yeah.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Okay, well. And you did say that you both

[Anne Bogel]

have really enjoyed memoirs, and also you said off the record so far that you lovingly refer to your sad millennial girl fiction that you both tend to enjoy.

[Ruth Verwei]

Oh, yes, I totally forgot about that. Indeed. Yeah.

[Anne Bogel]

You want to say more?

[Ruth Verwei]

Well, that I feel like these sad millennial girl books, what I call them, they also tend to be quite funny, which, I mean, not all of them, but, you know, they have their moments of humor. I don't know if you know the show Fleabag, but it's kind of.

[Anne Bogel]

I do. I loved Fleabag Readers talked me into finally watching that, I think just last. Last winter.

[Ruth Verwei]

Oh, okay. Oh, nice. Yeah. So that one is also, like, we both really love that. And anything that has like sort of fleabag vibes where, you know, it's not. It's not actually funny, but it's humorous. Those books also really work quite well.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, Fleabag vibes, you said Bonus points

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

for stories featuring siblings.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yes. It's not. Definitely not a must.

[Anne Bogel]

Noted.

[Ruth Verwei]

But we have tended to enjoy that.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Well, I gotta narrow it down because

[Anne Bogel]

the options are abundant, so I'm gonna be looking for that. And also, tell me about being interested in reading more books not originally written in English. Is that just you or also your sister?

[Ruth Verwei]

I would say we should probably leave that one out because. Because it's like from. It's quite. From left field. I don't know. I also didn't talk with her about that, if she's also interested in that, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. What do you think? Is it too much?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I don't know. Let's find out.

[Ruth Verwei]

Okay.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Okay.

[Anne Bogel]

All right. I'm really excited for you. I feel like you'll have options.

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[Anne Bogel]

Ruth the books. You all have both Everything I Know

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

About Love by Dolly Alderton, category Summer

[Anne Bogel]

by Emily Itami and Famous Last Words

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

and basically every other novel you've both

[Anne Bogel]

read by Gillian McAllister, bear by Julia Phillips. Not a good fit for either one of you. Lately you have read Wild Dark shore by Charlotte McConaughey and yes, quite a popular choice, Sisters in the Wind by Angela Booley, although your sister isn't finished yet, but that's okay. And the Ministry of Time by Kayleigh Ann Bradley. And we're looking for books that you

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

both may enjoy together.

[Anne Bogel]

Really? That Sister Stories really helps me hone in because I'm thinking about well crafted, richly textured, emotionally resonant fiction and also memoir. And I feel like there's a lot

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

of overlap in how the story feels,

[Anne Bogel]

even though the genre would be, you know, different fiction versus non.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

And let's not forget books not originally

[Anne Bogel]

written in English would be kind of nice. Let's start out there and then work our way back to more solid ground.

[Ruth Verwei]

That sounds great.

[Anne Bogel]

That's not how I usually do it because it feels riskier, but I feel

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

like you have so much to choose from. Okay, I'm thinking about Valerie Perrin, the

[Anne Bogel]

French novelist, specifically because there's a sibling, though not Sister Element Forgotten on Sunday. That was actually her debut novel. It was published back in 2015, but it was just published in English for the first time a couple years ago. If you've read her work or are familiar with it, I'm imagining it's because of Fresh Water for Flowers, which really became an international sensation a few years ago and she said changed her whole writing career and life. Do you know anything about this author or these works?

[Ruth Verwei]

So I have heard of Fresh Water for Flowers, but I honestly just kind of added it to my list at the time. I remember being quite intrigued, but I did not get to it yet. So I really don't know much.

[Anne Bogel]

I say this with respect and also I'm striving for clarity. There are like big fireworks events that some readers are going to find really melodramatic in these pages. And I'm wondering if the combination of the work in translation, the French sensibility, the excellent prose, I don't know what it's like to read originally in French. I can only talk about food and shopping. But her work has been praised in the original language translation. Hildegard Searle is a master. But I wonder of this combination of intricate plotting, really beautiful craftsmanship for you and also just like sensational fireworks in the plot is gonna work for both of you. The story spans a century. It starts in like 1919, after World War I, and runs to just before the book was published. So like the early 2010s. And we go back and forth. Actually we don't just go back and forth, we move through time.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

So in the present day we have this 21 year old woman whose name is Justine, and she works at a

[Anne Bogel]

retirement home in a small French village. And she's always wanted to be a carer, like they call them there. And she loves hearing the elderly residents life stories and they love her because they feel loved and cared for and treated with respect and kindness. Justine has her favorite resident. Her name is Helene, and she's been slowly telling her great love story to Justine. And because of what she hears from

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Helene, Justine begins to explore the secrets

[Anne Bogel]

of her own past, which as readers will discover, are numerous and run through her entire life. And they are gutting now. My friend and novelist Mary Beth Whelan said once, maybe she was talking about tv, maybe she was talking about books, I don't know. But she says, like everything is about setup and payoff. And Perrin does an incredible job here with setting up the main events of the story in past and present storyline,

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

but especially in Justine's present day life

[Anne Bogel]

story and how it pays off in a big dramatic, gut wrenching way in the end. But I feel like the story is French. It's beautifully told and while it does have heartbreaking truths, like built into the very foundation of the story, it also has strong elements of hopefulness. Now, reasons that people really are drawn to Perrin's book is she always, I think always features strong life giving, intergenerational relationships, really thorny, intricate family dynamics and also like lots of pain, but lots of hopes to go with it. But Justine, because both her parents were killed in a car accident when she was little, actually her parents and her aunt and uncle, she and her cousin were raised together, but they were raised as siblings and they're not sisters. But that sibling relationship is intrinsic to the heart and meaning of the story. How does this sound to you?

[Ruth Verwei]

Honestly, it sounds amazing. I really like what you're saying about the, you know, the big payoff and kind of the build up waiting for that. I think that is very intriguing. I like the aspect of like a sibling relationship, but in a bit of a different way, 100%. I think we should definitely give this a try.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, I'm glad to hear it. Another work in translation I like for you, but I don't like quite as much, is the Good Life by Virginia Grimaldi.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

It's also translated from the French by Hildegard Searle, but it is a sister

[Anne Bogel]

story about two sisters who've been estranged for five years. They're now approaching middle age, but after

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

their grandmother dies and their grandmother practically

[Anne Bogel]

raised them, they reunite at their grandmother's home in Spain. So beautiful setting, that's fun to spend a week at with these sisters. But they do. They spend a week together in preparation for the home being sold and they look back and reflect on their entire, often painful childhood and life together and then apart and start to understand what happened in each other in new ways. That one's a little quieter, but it does have that reflection, that bond as it changes, evolves, alters, changes context throughout the years. And it does have moments of humor to punctuate the tough stuff because there is really tough stuff. They were raised in abusive homes and it's hard. Some of the stuff they need to go look back at and they cope with humor and you get to enjoy that too.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

So I don't like that as much.

[Anne Bogel]

But if Forgotten on Sunday really works for you and you want more of that flavor, that could be a good one.

[Ruth Verwei]

Sounds intriguing for sure. I think it definitely sounds like something up my alley. I like the aspect also that the sisters are already a bit older and then they're kind of processing things but coming together to do that, I think Sounds really interesting.

[Anne Bogel]

Okay, good. I'm glad to hear that. Next, I'm wondering about something that feels like, look, we never want to directly match. If you like this, then you should read that. But a book that is most akin to Gillian McAllister and that's a Flynnberry novel called Trust Her. Have you perhaps read this or the huge bestseller Northern Spy?

[Ruth Verwei]

No, I haven't even heard of actually, either of those.

[Anne Bogel]

Gosh, that makes me really happy. Actually, I'm delighted to introduce you. Trust her is the one that I love the idea of you and your sister reading together. It's a standalone companion to the 2021 bestseller Northern Spy.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

But you do not need to read both these books.

[Anne Bogel]

You do not need to read them in order. They are both excellent on audio that's worth noticing for you, Ruth, and for any audio files in our audience. But the basic question Flynn Berry's raising here is what does the Irish Republican

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Army's activity look like in the post Brexit era?

[Anne Bogel]

And how spec are women involved and why are they involved in domestic terrorism? That's what she says her whole premise is. I was really drawn in by the storytelling style.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Barry drops you right into the middle

[Anne Bogel]

of the action where you are with a woman named Tessa who's driving home after a swim on the coast and she's just had this quiet, peaceful day to herself and she's driving home on

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

this deserted stretch of Irish highway when

[Anne Bogel]

she realizes, oh, there's a big black car coming up quick behind her and she's suddenly rear ended by some scary

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

dudes in the car.

[Anne Bogel]

And it takes her a minute to realize exactly what's happening. But it's this. Despite her relocation and her new identity, the IRA has found her and they give her an ultimatum.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

In short order, she has to persuade her MI5 handler to become an informant

[Anne Bogel]

or someone she loves will die. And she knows they mean it because of her history. So I am. I mean, I live in the United States. I live in Kentucky. I am not well schooled in the history and current activities of the ira, but my mind kept going back to excellent works I've read and enjoyed before and the whole world of literature and nonfiction surrounding the Troubles and the aftermath. I kept thinking of Louise Kennedy's Trespasses, which I think you may really enjoy, but I don't know that Beth would. And also Patrick Radden Keefe's nonfiction work say Nothing. They're both about the Troubles, but Barry's Work is basically set in the present day, and readers are going to feel all kinds of ways about how the story resolves. And you may love it, you may hate it. Either way, it's highly discussable, and your reaction will teach you a lot about your taste in books. But Tessa has a sister, and they

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

love each other dearly.

[Anne Bogel]

And that is the tie that she is most strongly considering as she considers what is the right thing to do by herself, by her child, by her sister, by her family, by her country. How does that sound?

[Ruth Verwei]

Okay. It sounds amazing. I have to say, when you said, like, the central question of the book and then you kind of dove in, that was really not where I was expecting to go. So that's really exciting. I actually have Trespasses. I got it for Christmas, and I was thinking, like, ooh, do I ask Beth if we read this together? So I like the additional insight there, but I think it could be fun maybe to read this one with her and then also read Trespasses myself. But, yeah, this sounds incredible, like, going on the list right away.

[Anne Bogel]

Now, you and your sister know each other best, but if Trespasses was gonna work for both of you, I think it would be after Trust her, where you already have this context, hopefully this interest, this background information, as then you enter Louise Kennedy's work set decades ago and go back and see more of the origins of what's still ongoing in the contemporary work. Trust Her. I mean, Trespasses just came out a few years ago, but she's writing about a different era.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, but indeed, that sounds really, really fun. And I do like those sort of, like, very nerdy, those connections where you can kind of build one book off of the other, and then it's just a different reading experience because of something that you just recently read that you maybe didn't know before. So, yeah, that sounds very intriguing to me.

[Anne Bogel]

Yes.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Okay. I have a book for you that

[Anne Bogel]

I didn't anticipate talking about today. It will be brand new at the time this episode airs. It's a nonfiction memoir ish work by Beth Ann Fennelly called the Irish Goodbye. Now, if you know her, it's probably from her pre Covid collection that came

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

out, like, 2017, 2018, called heating and Cooling.

[Ruth Verwei]

So I do know her, and I. I know her, actually, because she wrote this book, Great with Child, which I read when I was pregnant, she did with my son. So that's how I heard about her originally. But, yeah, I love her. Her writing.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, I'm glad to hear that. I'm really excited for this collection, which I picked up on a whim. It was not what I expected. So first of all, I loved heating and cooling, which is a collection of micro memoirs. All the works in there are very, very short. And this new collection called the Irish Goodbye also has the subtitle Micro Memoirs. But there are maybe a half dozen

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

essays in here that are quite long.

[Anne Bogel]

And I love the micro memoirs for you, but I also love the long essays. But I need to give, I think, two important, not at all related caveats.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

One is readers. If you're thinking, oh, I remember Anne talking about the Irish Goodbye. Well, you might, because we will have

[Anne Bogel]

done our spring book preview library chat that will have aired before this episode. So I plan on this is like a little time warp. What should I read next moment? That spring book preview hasn't happened yet at the time of recording, but I will have talked about this book there by the time this episode airs.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

So that may be it.

[Anne Bogel]

But also, this is not the same Irish Goodbye as the novel, the debut novel by Heather Amy o' Neill that I talked about in the fall book preview we had. This is a different book with the same title. And Bethany wrote a substack about that. That's really funny because that does happen sometimes in publishing. But the other big caveat I need to give is that it's no secret if you know Bethann Fennelly's work or right at the beginning of her story, that she was very close to her beloved sister who died young when she was 30, 30 something. And that is a theme that she revisits frequently in her work and is ever present. I mean, the Irish Goodbye of the title is about her sister. So as two sisters embark on this story potentially together, I want you to know that going in there could be a lot here that is so good and poignant and important and meaningful and

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

fun to discuss here.

[Anne Bogel]

And also, I mean, you can see the end also, I think.

[Ruth Verwei]

Yeah, I appreciate that perspective. But indeed it it sounds again, very interesting. Something that I think would be ultimately for me maybe I would see how my sister feels about that before diving straight in. But yeah, I actually didn't know that she had a new book coming out. And I think it could be really interesting and work for us. I like. Also, like you said, there's like micro memoirs, but also longer essays. Sort of the mix of the two is also intriguing.

[Anne Bogel]

Yeah. Okay.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

But let me tell you a little bit about them.

[Anne Bogel]

She keeps revisiting the theme of married love and just different, like Tiny four to seven line little micro memoirs. I call them poems, if I didn't know better, that are like pithy and punchy and often funny. There's the same recurring like short little punchy pithy pieces about the loss of her sister.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

But there were some long pieces in this book that were so insightful and

[Anne Bogel]

powerful and just not what I expected

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

because they were not micro.

[Anne Bogel]

They were fully fleshed out essays about things like moving to a tiny town where she did not know a soul

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

and didn't speak the language in the

[Anne Bogel]

Czech Republic right after she graduated from college to be an English teacher and how hard and lonely and overwhelming that year was in so many ways ways. And how her understanding of that time completely shifted when she revisited it decades later when she, gosh, I think she

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

was close to the town for work

[Anne Bogel]

and decided to like pop over and pay a visit. And the story of what it was like then and just like struggling to

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

speak the the language in a country

[Anne Bogel]

she did not know. I wonder if that would feel a certain way to to both you and your sister for different reasons. She tells this amazing story called the Roomies Niece, which feels like a found slash built family situation with her and four of her college roommates and how they bonded from the get go and

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

have been crucial in each other's lives

[Anne Bogel]

ever since they went to college together several decades ago. But my favorite piece, and the one that makes me want to rave about this whole collection is called Dear Viewer of My Naked Body. And it starts with her going to like dinner, a cocktail party at her friend's house. Her friend is hosting an artist passing through her Mississippi town and the artist is doing this collection. You know what, all the details don't matter though they are fascinating. And you will hear all about the

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

artistic career of Robert Townsend and how

[Anne Bogel]

he came to embark on this series of newts in portraiture. But Bethann Fenley tells the story of how to her great surprise, in no small part due to her like, I'm 50 now, whatever, no regrets, life's too short. Who really cares? Like just go for it. She's like, sure, you can paint me nude. And she writes about her thought process

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

and what the experience was like.

[Anne Bogel]

And I am still like aghast, like I don't know if you can hear me, like kind of smiling, like with this what in the world expression on my face. But the amount of joy and life as she describes, like the way he made her feel seen and the way

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

he just celebrated the humanity of everyone in a way that she did not See, coming.

[Anne Bogel]

When she signed up for this project, it was powerful to read and also just like, so dang fun and good for the soul. How does all that sound?

[Ruth Verwei]

Amazing. And again, you totally surprised me because when you started talking about this book, I. I was not expecting it to go in all of those directions. So, indeed, I'm definitely intrigued. I don't know that Beth has read any Beth Ann Fennelly, but for sure, I think this should go on our list.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I'm delighted to hear it.

[Anne Bogel]

We could keep going for days, but I think that's a nice tight 3/4.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Let's keep it right there.

[Anne Bogel]

Ruth of the books we talked about today, they Were Forgotten on Sunday by Valerie Perrin in that Hildegard Searle translation.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

We did a little side Note for

[Anne Bogel]

the Good Life by Virginia Grimaldi. Then we talked about Trust her by Flynn Berry and the Irish Goodbye by Bethann Fennelly, which is just about out by the time we're talking today. So I think they're all fair game.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

But of those books, what are you thinking?

[Anne Bogel]

What are you most inclined to read next? With Beth, what do you think she'll be most inclined to read next here, choose your own adventure when you answer.

[Ruth Verwei]

I think I'm definitely gonna take this whole list list and talk about it with her, but I have a feeling that we're gonna go with Trust Her. It's my guess I can let you know if I'm right.

[Anne Bogel]

Well, I can't wait to hear what happens next and how that ends up for you and where it leads you both in your reading lives and you know what kind of good conversations and connections come out of these books. Ruth, this has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for talking books with me today.

[Ruth Verwei]

Thank you so much, Anne. I really enjoyed this conversation and getting a bit more insight into my reading life and just just chatting with you.

[Anne Bogel]

Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

conversation with Ruth today and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about at what Should I read next?

[Anne Bogel]

Podcast.com readers we know there have been

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

a lot of changes on podcast apps recently and it's also shifting how our podcast gets discovered by new listeners. A simple way to add help us spread the word is by following in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, really wherever you get your podcasts, when you follow or subscribe to new episodes, that signals to the platforms and the networks that you want to hear what we are sharing. And it's still so helpful if you leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you in advance for taking the time to check on your podcast app

[Anne Bogel]

settings and help our show keep going.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Follow us on Instagram Instagram hatshouldireadnext where we always love to read your comments

[Anne Bogel]

on our latest episodes or see when

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

you tag us in your reading related stories and make sure you are on our email list. We send out a short update every Tuesday morning about our latest episode. Sign up at what Should I Read next podcast.com newsletter thanks to the people

[Anne Bogel]

who make the show happen each week.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

What Should I Read Next? Is created by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Productions Specialist Holly Wilkachewski, Social Media Manager and Editor Lee Kramer, Community Coordinator Bridget Mistlehorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone and our whole team at what Should I Read next and modern Mrs. Darcy HQ, plus the audio whizzes at Studio D.

[Anne Bogel]

Podcast Production readers, that's it for this episode.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Thanks so much for listening and as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.