← What Should I Read Next?
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- [00:00]
A
What role does reading play in your life? And what is that looking like these days?
- [00:04]
B
Yeah, prior to opening a bookstore Is
- [00:07]
A
this a before and after story?
- [00:08]
B
This is a before and after story.
- [00:15]
A
Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogle and this is what should I read Next? Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader. What should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest. Readers around here, we believe in the power of understanding your reading life, which we do through this weekly podcast as well as through reflections on the Modern Mrs. Darcy blog and our membership communities. Our Patreon Community is designed for readers like you. It's a space to enjoy more conversations about the books we love and why we love them. Our Friday bonus episodes feature fascinating book conversations grouped around themes. We've got Industry Insights where I take a closer look at what's happening in the publishing industry and how it impacts your reading life. Our Starter Guide series offers guidance on how to get started in new to you genres. In one great book episodes I I pull one book I love off my personal bookshelves and tell you all about it in 10 minutes or less. Sometimes our team members get in on that action too, and I love our ongoing episodes of Mini Matchmaking, Dear Book Therapist and Ask Anne Anything. On top of enjoying these bonus episodes, big events like our Spring Book Preview and Summer Reading Guide and other seasonal unboxings and live events, our Patreon members are a critical part of how we make everything happen here at what Should I Read Next? Hq. In a quickly shifting online world, the financial contributions of our Patreon members are a significant part of how we pay. Our team continue to create the show each week and keep the bookish conversations flowing to everyone who's already a member. Thank you. If you're not yet, we'd love to invite you to join us. Find out more@patreon.com whatshouldireadnext readers our dog, Daisy looks forward to dinnertime every day. She gets so excited as mealtime approaches and makes sure that we know it now. Maybe that's just her personality, but I think it also has to do with giving her quality food, like the personalized dog food from the pet's table. The pet's table was created by the team behind HelloFresh. They offer both human grade fresh and gently air dried options. You can also mix both to see what your pup prefers. Their air dried plan is shelf stable but unlike kibble, it's minimally processed to preserve actual nutrients, giving your dog the protein, vitamins, antioxidants they need to support gut and immune health, a healthy coat and and an active lifestyle. Choose from nine recipes all formulated with a board certified vet nutritionist and customized for your dog's specific needs based on their age, weight, activity level and more. 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Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home that's W a Y f a I r.com Wayfair Every style Every Home Readers Today I'm talking to indie bookstore owner Nakia, who owns Abodo Serendipity Books in Stratford, Connecticut. But the pain points in Nakia's reading life are not unique to her profession. She'd love to have more time to read, and sometimes she gets stumped when it comes to picking her next read. Nakia reads widely for work and is definitely most at home in her go to nonfiction spaces. She knows what she likes and is able to find it after having a real aha moment six months ago. Nakia has been trying to strike a delicate balance between her professional reading and reading for pleasure. And it's only going okay. She's especially feeling the friction of seeking to push beyond her nonfiction comfort zone into genres she's less familiar with, like historical fiction, romance, and mysteries and thrillers. Today we'll explore what successful branching out might look like with specific title recommendations that may feel like doable, pleasurable steps in a new direction. Let's get to it. Nakia, welcome to the show.
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B
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here on this cold winter morning.
- [06:04]
A
Ooh. Well, the pleasure's mine. I can't wait to dig in. We loved your submission at what Should I Read Next hq. So thanks for bringing it to what Should I Read Next?
- [06:13]
B
Yeah, I'm excited for our conversation.
- [06:16]
A
Nakia, would you start by just telling us a little about yourself? We want to give our readers a
- [06:21]
B
glimpse of who you are first and foremost. I'm a mom. I have three children, twin daughters who are fraternal and they are 10 years old and I have a 19 year old son who is studying musical theater. I am married to a woman who is a pediatric hospital chaplain and clergy in the Episcopal Church. And I am the owner of our local bookstore located in Stratford, Connecticut. So that's one hat I wear professionally. But I'm also the editor in chief of our local newspaper as well as the executive director of a local nonprofit working to promote civic minded residents so that we can be a stronger community. And I'm also a dog owner.
- [07:13]
A
That is a varied cv. I'm wondering where our conversation will lead today. Do you find that the variety brings something to your life that like a single minded focus would not? For years I felt envious of my friends who did one thing in the like literary or podcasting space and a wise woman finally said to me one day, Ann, you would hate. That's like the variety is what Makes your world go round. And I'm wondering how that lands with you.
- [07:40]
B
I am an Aries at heart and so I like doing many things. I have many goals and I like to achieve them. And so once I finish one, then I add another one to my list. And at the root of it all, Ann, is I love my community. And so however, I can benefit the community based on my skills that I do.
- [08:02]
A
Well, today we get to talk about how these things all bubble up impact and maybe drive your reading life. Tell me a little more about this store that you own.
- [08:13]
B
Sure. The store is called Abodo Serendipity Books. The name Abodo means community in Igbo language which is found in Nigeria. And Serendip used to be what Sri Lanka was called by the Persians way back when.
- [08:31]
A
I did not know that.
- [08:32]
B
And my wife is Sri Lankan. And so when we were thinking of names, this just sort of fit. During COVID like so many other folks, I took ancestry.com I took my ancestry test and I found out that I am part Nigerian. And so the name represents both myself and my wife. We opened the store in September of 2024. It is a safe, warm, good smelling place thanks to the books on the shelves, but also the air freshener that I tend to spray every day. But it has really become a great place for kids, adults and older folks. Stratford's a very interesting town in that we have the ocean, we have forests, we have retirement center and not a whole bunch for kids to do. And so the bookshop offers middle grade book clubs, silent book clubs, we have jazz every other month, we have yoga. So there is a lot going on. And all of it is rooted in books. Yes, and also social and emotional development. And so that's our bookstore in a nutshell.
- [09:45]
A
That sounds lovely. Nikia, would you tell me about your reading life? What role does reading play in your life and what is that looking like these days?
- [09:54]
B
Yeah. Prior to opening a bookstore, I.
- [09:58]
A
Is this a before and after story?
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B
This is a before and after story. I would average about one book a month. You know, I used to sort of beat myself up. I'm not the fastest of readers, but that's what I managed. And now that I own a bookstore, I read less for pleasure and more for work. When I bring authors in, which happens about once a month, I have to have read their book. So it takes me quite a bit to read their books. And for the community, I like to have a diverse genre of author, from children's authors to everybody in between. And so my Reading life has taken on a delicate balance of both reading for pleasure pleasure and reading for work. You know, like most readers, I carry a book in my bag and that is usually a book that I'm not reading for work. And then I have my, you know, my tbr and then I have the books that are on my nightstand which differ from what I carry in my bag. So I have a lot of, a lot of different books going on. And then of course audiobooks happen when I'm in the car. So. Yeah, now that sounds like a lot. Ann,
- [11:17]
A
I don't know, you might sound like a reader.
- [11:22]
B
This is true.
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A
How is that balance working for you right now?
- [11:26]
B
It's not. It's not working. And so I.
- [11:29]
A
Let's hear more.
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B
Yeah, you know, I mentioned that I have pressure, that self imposed pressure to read faster, but I also have this pressure that I've put on myself to read more. And I had sort of a come to Jesus moment about six months ago when I realized that I couldn't, could not manage hosting every book club in the bookstore. I just didn't have the capacity, the time to finish, you know, four books a month. So I recruited some community members who are interested in a particular book to host the book club. And so that has kind of helped to relieve some of the pressure of feeling like I needed to read every single book. So now that has carved out more pleasure time reading. And so not surprisingly, I choose to read books that are more business oriented, so more entrepreneurial in many ways. And oddly though in I'm enjoying those too. And I was surprised at myself because I didn't think I would, but I am. So that's the tension that I'm dealing with now.
- [12:41]
A
Okay, now you mentioned you had this deep breath moment six months ago, which is not that far off when you sent in your submission.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Nakia, I'm wondering what brings you to the show right now. Like what's top of mind? How can I help?
- [12:55]
B
Top of mind is how to carve out or how to adequately make space for reading for pleasure. And you know, there's often, and I think this is for most everyone, you know, there's often educational period in your professional life and you want to sort of drink it all in. And there are books to do that with. Right. There are professional development books, there are technical books, there are books on AI and so you have that pocket of books and then you have the books that sort of help you escape or help you think about a particular situation in a new way. I mentioned in my Submission that I'm starting to read White Fragility, why it's so hard for white people to talk about racism. So I'm starting to read that. And that sort of, you know, it sort of fills both buckets of my personal reading and my professional reading. And so I, I think again, top of my mind is like, how do I carve out that time to sit and commit to my reading for pleasure?
- [14:11]
A
Is this a question of not knowing what to do or not knowing how to implement ideas you have? I think how Nakia, you got a lot going on, and it feels like it would be a little out of touch for me to be like, let's just look at the pieces. But also, I hope this conversation can help you reflect. You know your own life best and your limits, and also what these books bring to your life, whether that's, you know, pleasure or whatever it is you need to do your work. But ideally both. But I hope this conversation really helps you reflect and get your subconscious thinking about maybe some solutions that haven't occurred to your wakeful brain.
- [14:55]
B
Yeah, I mean, I would love to know from some of your past guests as well, you know, if they have a similar conflict, you know, in that it's the carving out and how do I. And you know, our weekends, the time, you know, do. Do I just leave the weekends for my pleasure or personal reading? You know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have an answer, Anne.
- [15:21]
A
So it sounds like you've pondered adding a little bit more structure into when you do what kind of reading or when you read at all.
- [15:27]
B
That's what I'm trying. I'm trying. Yeah. You know, I don't want to lie in bed and fall asleep after the first page.
- [15:34]
A
So reading at night is great for a lot of readers unless it's impossible because they fall asleep. Sleep is good, too. They're both important. Right, Right, right, right. But if what you want to do is find some reading time, then maybe that's not going to do it for you.
- [15:49]
B
Right, Right.
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A
Okay. I would love to hear more about what you want to read. Can we talk about how what you've seen in the bookstore has called you to reflect on your own reading life? I'm particularly interested in what you've seen about people finding and staying in their lane versus how you sometimes see readers push outside of it.
- [16:07]
B
So we host a silent book club every month, and that has been eye opening in the sense of, you know, for silent book club, you bring whatever book you're reading. And we open our silent book club with a quick icebreaker so folks can get to know one another. They talk about what book they brought with them and why, and then we spend 45 minutes reading and then we come back at the end and people share about what they read in those 45 minutes. And so that's been eye opening for me personally in my reading life because it gives me a sense of, oh, well, that's a topic I could be interested in. Let me give this book a chance. And so then I. I have the option of picking it up. So that has been an integral part of folks going outside of their sort of comfort zone. What I see in store is that there is a peaked curiosity around book clubs as a whole. And so once folks see what the choice is for that particular month, because of the community aspect of it all, folks join and they get the book. And you know, some people will read it and some people won't, as book clubs go. But they have, you know, they have gotten out of their comfort zones. And then we have folks who come in and go straight to that one genre, whether it's history or romance or sci fi. Those are the big. The big three, and they stick with it. The other group of folks live by the New York Times bestsellers list, and so they will give anything on that list to try. And so for me to be a more well rounded bookseller, I try to read books outside of my preferred genre of nonfiction, and that hasn't gone too well, I must say, but I try. But I have definitely seen a little bit of both in terms of the customer community, of folks who stick with their genre and folks who will push past that comfort zone and go with something a little different. You know, for instance, I wasn't a historical fiction fan and one of the first books we chose for book club was just that, historical fiction. And I loved it.
- [18:35]
A
What was it? Nakia.
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B
The Women by Kristin Hannah.
- [18:38]
A
Ooh, okay. It's a popular one. Your New York Times people were all over that.
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B
They were, my gosh. Oh, yes, they were. I love when things like that happen. I like fiction, but it's not my go to. So when you add historical fiction onto that piece, there's something about it that gets me, you know, gets me into the book that is. And so one of the very first audiobooks I listened to, I did so in like record time. Yes, because the narrator was good, but the story was just gripping. And that was Sadiqa Johnson's the House of Eve. And so she has a new book that just came out as well, the Keeper of Lost Children, which I'm.
- [19:19]
A
I'm making a note right now to make sure you know about it, but it may actually be. Be literally your job to know about it.
- [19:25]
B
Yeah, part of it. Part of it is. But then you have that Mom's the Brain fog. That's a whole nother podcast in.
- [19:35]
A
And I think we're both qualified to speak on it. So.
- [19:40]
B
Yeah, that was the first audiobook I listened to and I've been hooked ever since.
- [19:45]
A
And it worked for you?
- [19:46]
B
It worked for me, yeah. Totally did.
- [19:49]
A
Nikia, do you have any theories as to why some people push beyond their usual and others don't and I don't. There's no value laden situation happening here. Yeah, but you're observing a difference. I'm curious.
- [20:03]
B
Yeah. So I liken it to, you know, trying a new food. And so you just see if you like it and if you like it, all right, you'll go back to it. And, you know, for some of my customers or what I see here at my bookstore is that there's a pressure to finish the book. And this internalized pressure, even if like it.
- [20:27]
A
Yeah, that's real.
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B
And I don't do that. Like, if I get into a book and I give it one chapter and if I don't like it, it's. It's a waste of my, my time. So I encourage customers, friends, my book, family folks to put the book down, like, pick up something else that you feel called to. There are plenty of books to choose from, so don't spend time in a book that just isn't doing it for you. And so maybe that's a different genre. Maybe it's the same genre they tend to navigate towards, but it's just like that. I mean, I look at it like that as like, you know, just trying on something new to see if you like it.
- [21:13]
A
So going back to the food idea, some people like to stick with the things they know they enjoy, perhaps. And others enjoy the experimentation and discovery.
- [21:22]
B
Yeah, I think there is a complete crossover between the folks who are adventurous with food and those who are adventurous with books. You know, there is a certain comfort in what we know, right? We know if we like chocolate ice cream, that is just about finding the right kind of chocolate ice cream. But we'll go back to that ice cream. And it's the same thing with books. I know. I love nonfiction, and so the question is, who wrote it and what is the story? I do the same with other genres. Personally, you know, what's the story? Can I get behind it? You know, I love the way that Sadiqa Johnson writes, but the topic in her latest book is not something I'm 100% interested in, but as a writer, I like her work, and so I'll give it a shot.
- [22:18]
A
So you've got the familiarity with her work and her style and also a new topic that you could potentially branch into, too. Okay. Do you consider yourself to be someone who likes to explore or who likes to stay in your comfort zone?
- [22:37]
B
I love to stay in my comfort zone, and I'm getting more comfortable with going outside of my comfort zone. And I'm just dabbling a little bit, you know, in historical fiction, and that's sort of. I hate to keep using these analogies, but sort of like my gateway drug into the other. The other genres, which, you know, historical fiction and sci fi is all the rage and fantasy, and I just. Not there. I'm not there.
- [23:05]
A
You mentioned your submission. Maybe suspense or thriller.
- [23:08]
B
Mm.
- [23:09]
A
Is that still what you're thinking today?
- [23:11]
B
I love. I mean, I want to. I love all of the genres. This is the hard part. Like, I love. Theoretically, I love all of the genres. I watch thriller, television, psychological thrillers. I really want to get into the Will Trent series. And so, yeah, so I have varied interest in.
- [23:33]
A
Well, that sounds like a lot of fun to me. So, Nakia, it does sound like you enjoy the variety, even if nonfiction is the place that feels most like home.
- [23:41]
B
I do. I enjoy a variety. And nonfiction, for me, you know, it's always gonna be there as. As a genre and a genre of my choice, and I can always go back to it. And that's what I have to remind myself. Like, I can veer. I can go and read a thriller. I don't think I can get down with fantasy, and I've come to terms with that.
- [24:02]
A
Well, you don't have time to read everything.
- [24:04]
B
That's true. That's true.
- [24:06]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah. And I think I know myself enough to know that fantasy will definitely be a difficult time for me, so I steer clear. But I want to give psychological thrillers in particular, or suspense a try. I want to go back to sci fi and see if there's something within that genre that I might like. But romance and fantasy are two that I'm going to explore for work reasons, but not necessarily personal.
- [24:40]
A
Okay, we will put a pin in that when it comes time to explore books that might be for you. Nakia, would you tell me more about your relationship with nonfiction?
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B
I like to understand people. So my relationship with nonfiction is born out of that curiosity. Way back when, when I had to choose my major in undergrad, I thought I was going to be a psychologist, and so I really went hard in terms of reading nonfiction material. And you know, of course my coursework too was related to non fiction and so that's how I got there.
- [25:17]
A
Okay, so understanding people is the big draw. Understanding People Nikia, let's dive into your books. I think by hearing what you love and what you don't, we'll get a better feel for what you may enjoy reading next and what's comfortably branching out. Maybe we'll talk about some nonfiction, maybe, maybe we won't. It sounds like perhaps you can come up with those options on your own, but let's talk about your books next. Are you good for that?
- [25:41]
B
Yeah, let's do it.
- [25:44]
A
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- [28:53]
B
Today when I sent in my submission I was just coming off of Bell Hooks Book Communion and so the three books that I chose are all very different in terms of topic but all go back to the human experience. And that, like I mentioned before, is what draws me. So the three books that I love. One is Communion by Bell Hooks, the other is the Glass Castle by Jeanette Walls and the third is Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson.
- [29:30]
A
Well, I'd love to hear more about these one by one. Nakia, can you tell me more about your reading experience with Communion?
- [29:36]
B
Communion was the first book of Bell Hooks is that I read after college and so I didn't know what to expect but it was actually recommended to me by a customer of mine and I don't like to write in books, but I have underlined many passages in Communion. And I think as a woman of my age, which is 43, I was looking for something to remind me that. That I am enough. And for me, this book did that in so many ways. And as I read it, I thought about eventually gifting it to my daughters as sort of required reading as they become adults, young women. And so that's where I ended up with. With Communion, wanting to re gift it to other people in my life. You know, she touches on love in many ways in the book, with self love being the guiding theme. I think it's the perfect book to give to female identifying people.
- [30:51]
A
I'm just smiling real big listening to you talk about bell hooks, but you probably can't see that through your screen. Thanks for bringing that to the show. Nakia, what's the second book you love?
- [31:01]
B
The Glass Castle. I've read it a few times now. And the reason I love it and I love going back to it is because I feel like I'm a part of Jeanette Walls family. And I can understand the mental health issues that she talks about. Her parents experiencing the loneliness that her and her siblings feel that, I think is not explicitly said in the book. And it ends in a hopeful place. You know, there's nothing like reading a memoir or nonfiction. And you, like, you just feel so bad the entire time you're reading it. And then you get to the end and it's just more sadness. Like, that's not how I like to end a book. And the Glass Castle, yes, the. There are sad things in it, but it ends on a happier note. And I wrote my senior thesis in college about the effects of incarceration on the family system. And many years later, Bryan Stevenson published his book Just Mercy. And Bryan Stevenson is a lawyer. And the. I think he still is the executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative that helps folks who are in prison and on death row or have a life sentence, helping them get justice in the system. And so reading his book made me better understand the role that lawyers can play in getting to the truth and how much honesty, no matter what position you hold in the world, whether you're an incarcerated individual or someone working. Working in the system, that honesty is everything, for lack of a better word. You know, being honest as an. As an inmate, being honest in your interactions with inmates, I think is one of the reasons I love Just Mercy. And. But the way that he depicts his experiences going into the prison system, working with the families of the Incarcerated really touched me because he really humanized them right there on the page. From the incarcerated to the family members,
- [33:32]
A
I found that to be an incredible nonfiction work as well.
- [33:36]
B
Yeah.
- [33:37]
A
Nakia. Do all these books show how you like to understand people and how that draws you to nonfiction? Or is there something else these books are bringing to your reading life as well? I mean, obviously they're bringing more than one thing, but I wonder if that really encapsulates a key part of your reading experience for these.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah, I think that's part of it. I also like to read books by various authors. Right. And so not. Not solely an author who is. Who is all the buzz right now, but authors who have just made a huge impact. And I think these three authors have in ways that I think some of them might see and others might not. And, yes, they explore the human experience. All three explore the human experience in very, very different ways. And they all three will certainly, certainly hold a special place in my heart for many years to come. Come.
- [34:37]
A
I'm glad to hear it. But now we get to talk about a book that wasn't right for you. And I'd love to hear what about it. Didn't work. Not the right time, not to your taste? What did you choose here?
- [34:51]
B
So there was a book recommended to me by the name of Psalm for the Wild Built by Becky Chambers. And the person who recommended it to me is a dear, dear friend, and I love him immensely. And he sort of sold it to me in this sentence. He said, this is a book that I gift to everyone in my life. So I said, okay, I'm gonna read this book. So I decided just to go full. Full in. And I made it a book club pick at the. At the bookstore. And I couldn't get past the second page. And the reason for me is that it's sci fi. The genre is sci fi. There's that. And so that was immediately out of my comfort zone, number one. Number two, I just felt like I couldn't hold on to any of the scenes. Like, I couldn't put myself in any of the scenes right off the bat. And so I think that's part of also what I look for. Like, if I were to be in this scene, how would I handle this situation? And for me, that's obviously easier done in a nonfiction book. And so maybe that was a little bit of it for me, why I couldn't go further. Not that her writing wasn't bad. It was just the scene. The scenes in the book, the storyline, the different names of the of the locations, you know, there. It's a robot esque book and I just couldn't. I couldn't get into it.
- [36:29]
A
Well, I wanna say that this book has been featured as a guest favorite as well as now it's making its appearance in the didn't work for me category for the first time. What I'm wondering, Nikia, is if this was a couple of hopscotch jumps outside your comfort zone instead of just a nice little pivot. Cause this book almost feels philosophical in a way that your favorites and the books that you have mentioned that you gravitate to don't like, those books that you enjoy reading, that you. What's the word you've used? But that like you sink into immediately. You make it past the first chapter, you feel at home in them, you're oriented, you want to know what happens next. They feel like really grounded and tactile. And I think Becky Chambers has written books like this, but the Monk and Robot series, I wouldn't say that about.
- [37:18]
B
Right. So I was thrown and when I got to the second page and I was like, what? I cannot. I know, like, I have to stop. And I really wanted to like it. That's the thing. Like it was the first, first book, my first sci fi book. And I really wanted to and I, I just couldn't. And I do think that this was a choice that was many squares away from my comfort zone. And so, you know, if you have a recommendation for something that's a little closer to my comfort zone, but still in a sci fi genre. Yeah, I would totally consider it.
- [37:55]
A
I'll ponder that. As well as what? Some more readily accessible steps. Yeah, you know, outside the go tos, but doable. We could have a totally different conversation a year from now when there's more. I really want to resist like drawing out too detailed a metaphor here. But when you have tried reading new things and gotten comfortable in new areas of the bookstore, new shelves there, then what feels possible and accessible and just like a step sideways will be different than it is today.
- [38:31]
B
Yeah, I think you're right. Time heals all things, right?
- [38:38]
A
I don't know if it heals well, actually, you know what the big obstacle here is? We want. You want to read more books. Yeah. Time would heal that one too.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
- [38:46]
A
Nakia, what have you been reading lately?
- [38:48]
B
I shared that I have many different books around. I just started White Fragility, why It's so Hard for White People to Talk about racism by Dr. Robin DiAngelo. I have two different audiobooks going on right now. One is the Poet Empress, so out of my comfort zone and I'm working, I'm pushing through.
- [39:11]
A
How's it going so far?
- [39:13]
B
So far so good. I may have to rewind and go back to go back a chapter, but I haven't thrown in the towel, so that's progress. And then the other one I'm listening to is One Last Scream by Kevin o', Brien, which is a thriller. That's what's in rotation right now. And I'm revisiting Black Genius by Trey Johnson for our upcoming book Club Nakia.
- [39:44]
A
Let's see what we've got. You loved Communion by Bell Hooks, the Glass Castle by Jeanette Walls, and Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson. Not for you was Psalm for the Wild Built by Becky Chambers. You didn't love it like you hoped you would. And lately you've been reading a variety of things, including some fiction because your favorites were all nonfiction. White Fragility, the Poet Empress, One Last Scream and you're revisiting Black Genius. And right now you are looking for what you always enjoy, which is stories that help you understand people. And also you're looking to perhaps be breaking into romance or suspense and thriller. Historical fiction is working for you and something you're really looking for is to become a reader who draws from more genres in order to be a better informed bookstore owner. I don't love the way I summarize that. How does that sound? What am I missing?
- [40:46]
B
I think one thing to add would just be a more well rounded community member so that I can better understand my my community as a whole.
- [40:58]
A
Let's see what we can do here.
- [41:02]
C
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D
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- [41:59]
A
this is not coming out for a couple months, but I'm still early in the new novel by Vanessa Hua, who is best known for her memoirs. She's also known for A River of Stars, the novel that came out six, seven years ago. But her new one is called Coyote Land. It comes out in May, and in the first couple chapters, White Fragility is name checked in the text. And I thought, wow, like, you know, a book is in the public consciousness when it gets used in this way in fiction. I thought that was kind of fun. Wanna put it on your radar?
- [42:31]
B
Yes.
- [42:31]
A
I know that this one is described by the publisher as a heartfelt novel set in an affluent Bay Area suburb where a Chinese American family moves in and sets off a series of scandals for fans of Celeste Ng. And I'm a Celeste Ng fan, so that all made me want to pick that up. Does that sound like, you know what? I didn't tell you enough? I'm not even going to ask you how that sounds to you, but I thought it might be fun, comfortable to start with a nonfiction suggestion, if you're okay with that.
- [43:01]
B
Yeah, let's hear it.
- [43:03]
A
We had a podcast guest who also loves Audre Lorde and I believe, bell hooks, who was on the show in 2024. She's a Seattle journalist and we talked just a hint at this collection when she came on, because I read it before we met, but her name is Regan Jackson. The work is called still the Evolution of an Unexpected Journalist. And I wonder if you would like her essay collection. So she explores in these, like, personal, grounded, tactile essays. I almost said realistic, but they're personal essays. But she's interested in community and belonging in different ways to different people in different places, identity, social innovation, racism, the way you see yourself. And she explores these topics in a variety of places, like right there in her very specific Seattle community. But also we talked a little bit on the show about how she traveled the world and she spent a lot of time in Costa Rica. And I really enjoyed the essay she put about coming with her background to Costa Rica from Seattle and what she saw there and the way she captured the emotional, intellectual experience of being in those places as the person she was and just writing about the community that she witnessed or that was lacking in these different places, whether it's close to home or around the world. I think you might find those observations really interesting.
- [44:30]
B
Yeah.
- [44:31]
A
How does that sound?
- [44:32]
B
Sounds great. I'm excited.
- [44:35]
A
And then I wonder if we could find you a fun mystery or thriller, what have you had luck with? Like, what kind of vibe?
- [44:45]
B
So I only know thriller via television. That's one genre that I've not completely ventured into.
- [44:53]
A
Okay.
- [44:54]
B
But I love, like, anything that deals with detectives or crime scene. Which is. Which is the audiobook that I'm listening to is similar in that it's called One Last Scream. There is a crime that happens. It's sort of like, who did it? Why? Investigation. So I love that kind of thriller.
- [45:17]
A
Yikes. I've seen that cover. It looks scary. Well, in that case, if this is something that you're most familiar with with tv, let's give you a gentle pivot from the screen and also a gentle pivot from your books. I'm thinking about a historical romance with, like, a bit of a mystery woven through. How does that sound?
- [45:35]
B
Yes.
- [45:37]
A
Okay. Have you read anything by Alyssa Cole?
- [45:39]
B
No.
- [45:40]
A
She has this series called the Loyal League. Book one is an extraordinary union, and this is set in the Civil War era. And if you're thinking, I don't know about the Civil War, I wasn't either until a friend said, anne, you have to read this. I think you'll love it. And then I did. So this is the first book in her historical romance series series, and the focus in all three books is a Civil War era society of black spies who are working to topple the Confederacy. And Alyssa Cole says in her author's note that she was not interested in writing about this time period, but then she read something Ta Nehisi Coates wrote about the Civil War and was like, you know what? Readers want to read more about this. Like, let's bring it to life in a way that feels like it illuminates why people want to do what they do, but also, like, just a really great story. And actually, the heroine in this book, her name is El, and she's based on an actual historical former slave who had one of those fancy memories, eidetic memory, where you remember everything. And she spied for the Union. So El joins forces with a Pinkerton detective who happens to be a very handsome man. And sparks fly as they're taking on the Confederate army and. And risking their lives and their love in the pursuit of justice. Excitement, love, intrigue. I don't know how you feel about spy stories, but, like, how does this sound?
- [47:03]
B
Totally. Yeah. I'm gonna order it. Yay.
- [47:08]
A
Not sad about it.
- [47:09]
B
I think I might be a new fan of Alyssa Cole. Cool. Yay.
- [47:15]
A
Well, she has written historical romance, contemporary romance, Contemporary romantic thrillers and actually I think she has a sci fi kind of romance that I have not read. But it does exist. Maybe that could be a pivot as opposed to an impossible leap. Could be, if you like. An extraordinary union.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [47:41]
A
Now if you're up for it, do you want to do another mystery thriller?
- [47:44]
B
Yeah. What do you have?
- [47:45]
A
I'm wondering about Kelly Garrett. Have you read, you probably haven't read her if you haven't read much in the genre.
- [47:50]
B
That's right. Nope.
- [47:51]
A
Okay. The most recent book she wrote is called Missing White Woman. And this is both like a really fast paced thriller, but also a really sharp look at the ethics of the true crime industrial complex. This is set in contemporary times. It just came out like within the past. I can't remember if this was last year or the year before, but it's recent. But it's about a 30something black woman named Bri who is so excited to go to New York City for the weekend with her boyfriend Tyler. Like, this is a, this is a, like taking it to the next level relationship move to go for a romantic getaway. And they have this really swanky Airbnb for the weekend, but she wakes up the first morning they're there together. She comes downstairs to the fancy pants kitchen and finds out that a missing woman, white woman from the headlines is dead on the floor of her foyer and the dude like is nowhere to be found. So this is amateur sleuth teaming with investigators. She's the number one suspect because this happened in the place she's staying. And she is the one who's most motivated to find out what really happened so she can clear her own name. So she's trying to piece together, she's trying to stay below the radar. She's trying to figure out who she can trust and who she doesn't and how she's going to figure this out. Influencer culture is big here. Lots of social commentary. There's some really naughty female friendships in this book and it's just got a lot of narrative drive. This has been an excellent audio pick for lots of readers. If you have an audiobook gap to
- [49:29]
B
fill, these are excellent. Thank you, Anne.
- [49:33]
A
I'm glad to hear it. And then I think we should do just a solid historical novel as well.
- [49:38]
B
Okay. I'm here for it.
- [49:41]
A
If you love Sadiqa Johnson and don't already know Nancy Johnson or Dolan Perkins Valdez, I think you'd be happy to find them.
- [49:51]
B
Okay.
- [49:51]
A
Are you familiar with either of their work?
- [49:53]
B
I am not.
- [49:55]
A
What do you think you want to do back and forth in time, 1959, 1992, US, or should we go back in time to 1873, North Carolina?
- [50:10]
B
Let's do the 1950s.
- [50:13]
A
All right. You have chosen Nancy Johnson's sophomore novel, People of Means. Her debut is the Kindest Lie, which you may remember seeing lots of places. When it came out, it sold a bajillion copies. But in this book, People of Means, this is dual timelines. So in 1959, Nashville, there's a young woman named Frida who grew up in, like, the elite black community in Chicago. Her father is a fancy surgeon. He graduated from Fisk, and he wants her to go to Fisk. So she travels south, but then she horrifies her parents because she gets involved in the civil rights movement, and that's dangerous, and they don't really want to hear about it, and they forbid her, but that doesn't stop her. But she does fall in love with an activist and also falls a little bit in love with another man that her parents have chosen for her. Another will be Chicago fancy surgeon in 1992. Frida's daughter is a young professional in Chicago. She's graduated from school. She's working at her PR firm. She's working hard for a promotion. It's not going super well at work, and she doesn't know anything about her mother's history of activism or about the other man she was in love with long ago. And those are secrets for a reason. And if we know anything about a historical family saga like this, those secrets are not going to stay buried for much longer. But then the Rodney King verdict comes out in 1992, and Tulip is called to become an activist herself and kicks off this whole chain of events that alter her current romantic relationship, her relationship with her parents, her workplace, her role at work, her friendships, and her relationship with her parents and her understanding of the truth of her own family. And all those secrets her mom has been keeping for 30 years come out in a big, dramatic way that impacts everybody. How does that sound?
- [52:04]
B
Love it. I wanted you to keep. Keep sharing. Yes.
- [52:09]
A
Well, I love that for you. That's People of Means. As you know, the audio was very good, as it has been for Nancy Johnson's works and Dolan, Perkins Valdez as well. If you do look her up.
- [52:19]
B
Yes. I'm so excited. And I cannot, like, adequately share my excitement.
- [52:25]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [52:26]
B
Excitement.
- [52:27]
A
Well, I'm so excited for you. I have one last hard question for you. Or you know what? Maybe it's Easy. But Nakia, we talked about. I mean, we talked about a lot of books today, but we ended with four. We talked about Still True, the nonfiction essay collection by Reagan Jackson, An Extraordinary Union, the historical romance by Alyssa Cole, Missing White, the contemporary New York City thriller by Kelly Garrett. And then we ended with People of Means, the Back and forth historical 1959 Nashville, 1992 Chicago by Nancy Johnson. Of those books, what do you think you'll pick up next?
- [53:06]
B
Oh, yeah, that is. That's a hard question. I'll probably pick up Nancy Johnson's People of Means.
- [53:17]
A
I'm excited to hear it.
- [53:19]
B
Yes.
- [53:20]
A
I hope it's a good fit.
- [53:21]
B
Me too. And then probably Kelly Garrett's book Missing White Woman.
- [53:25]
A
Well, I'm excited to hear how that goes. Nakia, I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.
- [53:31]
B
As did I. Thank you so much.
- [53:37]
A
Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nakia today. I only realized after we hit stop on our recording that we never circled back to those how to Read more suggestions we talked about getting to. So after we hit stop, my suggestion to Nakia was that she choose a single piece of structure to implement into her reading life. See how it goes and edit from there. So a single piece of structure may sound weird, but here's what I mean. For example, does she want to read for a short, but not too short amount of time, say 15 or 20 minutes at a certain time every day, every morning or with lunch or for a coffee break? Or at 10am? Can she set a timer? Can she pair it with an activity? Could she perhaps listen to an audiobook on a certain stretch of her commute every day? Could she read while her twins are doing homework? Nakia loved the coffee break idea and thought she would start there. But part of the fun and usefulness of what Should I Read Next? As you get to listen in, to hear guests talk about their own reading successes and struggles and get ideas for your own reading life. I didn't want to leave you without ideas on that point today. For more ideas, we link to a Modern Mrs. Darcy blog post on this topic in our show Notes because of this conversation, but you can also Google it. It's called 7 Simple Ways to Read more this year, but it is linked up for you readers. If you have ideas for what you think Nakia should read next, we want to hear and I imagine she does too. Please tell us in comments at what Should I read next? Podcast.com. that's where we always share the books discussed in every episode plus any links or info like that. 7 simple ways to Read More Post that we reference during our conversations that we think you'd want to have in writing and sometimes have clickable Today. That means we have links to follow Nakia and her store on social media and to sign up for the Abodo Serenity Books newsletter again, visit what Should I read next podcast.com for everything you need. And that's true every week. Every episode, follow our show on Instagram @whatshould I read next for bookish posts, quotable quotes, and more. Check to make sure you're on our email list. We send out weekly updates on the show and other news to know about upcoming events like our 2026 Summer Reading Guide. We are deep in the planning stage right now. Sign up at what Should I read next podcast.com newsletter. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Production Specialist Holly Wilkachevsky, Social Media Manager and Editor Lee Kramer, Community Coordinator Brigid Mistlehorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone, and our whole team at what Should I Read next? Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ plus the audio whizzes at Studio D Podcast Production readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading everyone.