A (4:51)

Thank you. Happy to be here.

B (4:53)

Oh my gosh, the pleasure is mine. Now, readers wouldn't know that we've actually gotten to talk books in person before, I think maybe more than once because I know We've gotten to meet in person at Bookmarks NC for the lovely literary festival that happens every September in Winston Salem, North Carolina.

A (5:09)

Yes, I think we have met twice. The first time was right after I joined the book club. I joined right before the Charlie Lovett Live podcast recording and then went to the get together for book club members before the book festival the last time you were here.

B (5:29)

Yes. Those were both such enjoyable times. And now I'm trying to remember. I mean, I distinctly remember that Charlie Lovett event that was so great. He's lovely. I'm excited about his new book coming out this fall. I'm sure Winston Salem will roll out the red carpet for him, but all I can really remember is pre pandemic and post pandemic.

A (5:48)

Yes, I know.

B (5:50)

And the rest is just details. Well, I'm jealous that you live close to a place where there are just, it seems like great book things happening all the time.

A (5:58)

It is.

B (5:59)

Okay, well, tell us a little bit more about yourself so we get a sense of where you are geographically. What else would help us give the readers a glimpse of who you are as a person and then as a reader.

A (6:10)

My husband and I live in Lexington, North Carolina, which is a small town about halfway between Winston Salem and Charlotte. We are empty nesters. We have two adult children who are both in their 20s and who are out of college now and both have their own careers, which is lovely. And I work as a K12 curriculum developer. In my free time. I read a lot. Obviously I'm in the modern Mrs. Darcy Book Club and on the the Patreon for what should I read next when not reading, I like to hike. We like to day hike. I say I don't camp, but I'm very happy. Do anything you want during the day as long as I have like a bed at night. So I'm. I love a good day hike. I've taken up crochet in the past year, so that's a. I'm enjoying doing something tactile that's not just with my brain since I up in my head all the time for work and reading. We also enjoy traveling a lot and I always, if possible, like to go to museums when traveling or around here when there's a show. My undergrads and art history, but I rarely get to use it for work. But I do love keeping up with art and artists and I like to read about art and artists too a lot. So.

B (7:30)

Ooh, you know, I'm not sure that was in your submission, but I'm going to make A note.

A (7:35)

It wasn't, but I just added it.

B (7:39)

That's fair game here. And it's not like we didn't already have plenty to choose from, but that'll add a little bit more to the mix. Angela, tell us a little bit about your reading life.

A (7:49)

I've always been a reader. I remember. I think the first book I remember reading was Ann Likes Red. And I think it is actually still packed up in my downstairs in my garage. My mom had saved a lot of my books as a child and then my kids used them and now I have packed them up and they are safe for eventually one day when maybe have grandchildren, they will get passed along. But I still clearly remember and have the patches still from elementary school that said I read 50 books and I remember getting some very nerdy award about reading the most books. So yeah, a full reader way back in the summers and this was in the 70s when you could do this. I remember my dad would drop me off at the public library and he picked me up a few hours later and I. I remember I would just go and I think I'd always start with the Betsy Tasty Tip books. And I would just get books off and sit and read and he'd pick me back up a few hours later. And that was how I spent a lot of days in the summer. So I've always been a reader, you know, obviously over time it, you know, fluctuates. But I've always considered myself a big reader Now I read a variety of genres. I like to mix it up. I find that I enjoy books a lot more if I read different genres. I try to not read too many of the same genre in a row. I don't enjoy them as much. Then I like a series. I like a good series, but I don't want to read it all in a row because I enjoy it more if I can come back to it. And I use the library a lot. And I'm lucky, even though I live in a smaller county, that we have a fabulous thing in North Carolina called NC Cardinal. And my library can pretty much get about anything I want in, in the state. So they'll just get it from another library and I can read it. So I'm. It's very nice. It helps especially when you live in a smaller county that doesn't have as big of a library. And I read all sorts of formats. I do print, audio and digital. I've just started. I'll do an ebook. I've just kind of gotten into E books a little bit and Audiobooks. I always have an audiobook going and I always have a print or an ebook going to. So mix it up a little bit.

B (10:14)

You like to mix it up. What genres are you often drawn to?

A (10:17)

Here's why I don't like, I don't do horror. I just not, not really horror. Like celebrity memoirs. Don't do those. But I do like memoirs and essays. I could get travel memoir. I love history. I like a lot of historical fiction I read. And I like fantasy when I read. I don't read as much fantasy, but almost always enjoy it when I do. But I tend to like more fancy, like set around the edges of the real world as opposed to high fantasy with a whole separate world. I have to learn. I like magical realism. Like I'm a Sarah Addison Allen completist. I love, love her books. Yeah, I read a little bit of everything. I would not say. Yeah. Just I'm more like, here's what I don't like is more just anything, a shorter list. Yeah, yeah, it's easier. I'm more flexible with other things.

B (11:13)

I enjoy that for you. So Angela, I'm curious to hear what's on your mind in this season of your reading life that brings you to the show right now. Now I know part of the answer, part of the answer is we just put out a call to help us fill a last minute guest slot in our Patreon community. So thank you for heeding our call and making yourself available. But I'm also wondering where, where it is we're finding you in spring 2026. Because I feel like in a sense we've been reading together for a long time, right.

A (11:45)

Over the past year, year and a half, I think my, my bandwidth in general has decreased. I don't, I think as far as tolerance for topics and I'm just trying to think, protect my energy more. I think maybe as I, you know, with this stage of life. But in my reading life it has surfaced as I just don't have as much of a tolerance for heavier topics that in the past I would have been like, okay, I'll read that. And I would keep working through it. And so I, I enjoy things that have some depth to them, but just things that are heavy and stressful. I don't have as much tolerance for it. And several over the past probably year, several books that I probably would have kept reading in the past, I just I DNF'd them, I put them down. I thought I can't do this right now, or I didn't even pick them up because I just knew I'm not in a place where this is gonna going to work for me. Some that I DNF'd, I picked up H's for Hawkins by Helen McDonald, thinking, okay, I like nature. I like being outside. Memoirs typically worked well for me. So I thought, I'm gonna try this one. And I have some weird interest in falconry. That's like, I have this. I would love to, at some point do a falconry class. Don't ask me why. I have no idea why, but. So I thought, I'm gonna read H is for Hawk. And I listened to an hour or two of it and I thought, oh, no, this. It was just too depressing. It was. I thought, I can't do this right now. I also did not pick up, even though I know everyone in the world, said it was fabulous and loved it, God of the woods by Liz Moore. Because I thought, no, child kidnapping. I just can't do this. And didn't even pick it up. And I also DNF'd like. I started, I tried twice to read it, Burnham Wood by Eleanor Catton. And then it just, and then I was like, I just, I can't do it. And, and Grown Women by Sarah Johnson. I tried it and I, I got about 50 pages in, and I thought, oh, no, this is just not, not where my head is right now. I, I, I didn't need abuse. And, and I just, I was not the place to read about difficult relationships.

B (14:09)

I hear you. I mean, I think that book is so well done. And also, Shannon and our team at a recent meeting says, does this get happy? And we were like, no, this is not a happy book.

A (14:21)

Right. And I know there are tons of books that are incredibly well done, but that just, I'm not in the place where that's, I don't want to feel icky or something when I'm reading a book or just unsettled. And I know that's, if I'd kept reading it, that's how I would've felt.

B (14:40)

That's helpful to hear what you're seeking out and what you're not seeking in this season.

A (14:44)

Yes. So I know this year, as I was thinking about, you know, the beginning of the year, I thought, here's how do I want my year to be? And I don't like to make, I don't do resolutions, but I like to think about intentions. And I've also like to pick a word of the year, and I've done that for a few years. And I, I spent A week or two near the end of the year, kind of toying with different words, like, how do I want my year to feel? What do I want to remind my of? And I kind of went through, like, I don't know, I went through several. But then I thought, you know what? I finally settled on light. And I thought, oh, that's a good word because it has different meanings to it and I can use it in different ways. So I, I thought of it as, in terms I want to keep things light. You know, just obviously life is hard sometimes and you can't always keep things light. But when I have a choice, I want to try to enjoy things and not, you know, and to keep it light and fun and read things that are light and entertaining for me also in terms of light feels warm. And I love that feeling of being like warm and warm and safe and cozy. So that works, but also enlightening because I like. My brain likes to think about things and I don't want total fluff. I want things that I can grab onto and be like, oh, wow, that was interesting. Or here is what I learned. So that those are kind of what I was thinking about. And I've been thinking about, what are books I can read that give me those, those qualities that I'm looking for

B (16:22)

and how are you finding that pursuit? Because when I first read your submission, I thought, oh, this is so simple. But actually we haven't had a conversation about it yet. But the intersection of light, emotionally and enlightening is a lot harder for me, at least right off the bat, than either one in isolation.

A (16:51)

Right? When I say enlightening, I don't mean that it always has to. I have to learn something every single time. But I do like if it may make me think about something differently or make me go, oh, I didn't know that, or, oh, wow, I really like the genre. I didn't know I really liked. So the book I read recently that kind of clued it all together that went, oh, wow, was the Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping by Sangu Mandana. And it was warm, like, it felt like a big cozy hug. But it also, I didn't learn information because it's a cozy fantasy, but it felt so warm. The characters, I love the characters, but it also kind of made you think a little bit about. It had very, very well done characters on the spectrum in it that I thought that were done kindly and lovingly. And it addressed all the characters lovingly. It talked about mental health in ways that was not judgmental that was just matter of fact like this is just part of life and we deal with it. So that was kind of what I love. A book that addresses a challenging topic with a light touch, with a light hand.

B (18:02)

Ooh. We'll see what we can do today. Okay readers, Our family is always on the go and there are six of us, so it's a lot to manage. Syncing multiple schedules is tricky but important, so I'm excited to try out Skylight Calendar. Ours just arrived in the mail and I can't wait to see how it works for our busy family. Skylight Calendar was built to bring families together by keeping everyone's calendar to do list and reminders all in one easy to reference place. It's an all in one digital smart calendar that syncs seamlessly with whatever you're already using Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook, and more. You can customize your views for daily, weekly and monthly planning and color code each family member's activities for quick and easy reference. If you've got younger kids or are working on building healthy routines, Skylight Calendar makes it fun and rewarding to keep track of tasks like brushing teeth or completing homework. Skylight Calendar has a 100% happiness guarantee. If in four months you're not thrilled with your purchase, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Families are better when they're working together. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners 30 bucks off their 15 inch calendars by going to my skylight.com readnext go to myskylight.com readnext for 30 bucks off your 15 inch calendar that is M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I G H T.com readnext readers it's easy to focus on the big pieces when you're creating an outdoor space you hope to love, but we've often found that the small things are what really make a difference in making a space feel like our own. We've spent time over the past few years making our outdoor lounge area and yard feel comfortable and inviting, but we're still filling in gaps. Some of those gaps are about making things pretty and hospitable, like adding more string lights and solar tabletop lamps around our patio area, but some are more strictly functional, like adding another motion sensor light by the recycling bins so I don't stumble in the dark. Wayfair has tons of options for every possible outdoor lighting need you might have, and if you're looking for those bigger options, Wayfair has you covered too, with grills outdoor rugs, patio, storage, and more. Wayfair has over 20 million verified 5 star reviews so you can read what real customers thought about the Wayfair items they use to spruce up their homes. Get prepped for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. You know how this works. I know you've been familiar with the podcast for a long time. You're going to tell me three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately, and we'll find out more about your reading life and see what you may enjoy reading next. This is not the first submission you've sent in.

A (20:43)

I know.

B (20:43)

Do you remember what you sent in with your very first submission, which is dated July 19, 2020 at 5:11pm?

A (20:50)

Did I say Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver? Was that on there?

B (20:54)

No, but I know I saw that on a different submission.

A (20:56)

That's probably one of my favorite books ever, and I would say it captures that, like, warm feeling, but there's depth to it. What else did I say? Did I say a Deborah Harkness book? I bet you didn't. I did not. Oh, what did I say? Did I do a travel memoir?

B (21:17)

You did say that you would love to talk about travel memoirs by strong women and you would love to find

A (21:23)

more travels of such an independent. Yes, without reservations.

B (21:28)

What was your first favorite? Without reservations? The travels of an independent woman.

A (21:32)

What else did I say?

B (21:34)

The Weight of Ink by Rachel Kaddish.

A (21:35)

Oh, I do love that.

B (21:37)

And on your July submission, Winter Solstice by Rosamund Pilcher.

A (21:41)

I do love that. That has a similar feel to Prodigal Summer for me because they both feel warm. They made you want to. Like. I'm very much an introvert and I'm an only child, so those didn't feel overwhelming to me. They felt like a cozy hug of these people coming together. And I love the nature part of Prodigal Summer. But yeah, Winter Solstice. I need to reread that. I just have read it once and every December I go, should I reread Winter Solstice this year? So I'm thinking about it.

B (22:15)

I know that 2026, we've caught you at a specific moment in time, but it's really interesting and fun to note the continuity between past Angela I mean, 2020 wasn't forever ago. Unless. Unless you're one of the readers for in your reading life, it does feel like another era.

A (22:32)

No, it feels different. I think that is the point. Maybe 10 years ago I'd always read, but probably about 8, 9, 10 years ago I really started reading more as, you know, as I have more time. And probably 2020 was when I really started being thinking more about what works for me, what doesn't work for me, and being a little more introspective about it.

B (23:01)

All right, well, that's interesting to hear. At the time, in 2020, you were reading the Last Train to Key west by Chanel Cleeton and the book you disliked is the one you've already chosen to speak to today. So we'll get to that. We'll get to that shortly. I really dislike that, Angela. So with that hanging in our ears, what did you bring to the show for 2026? What's the first book you love?

A (23:24)

I miss you when I Blink by Mary Laura Philpott. It is a memoir in essays, which I often enjoy. Memoirs and essays. I read her books backwards. I know she has two. I first read Bomb Shelter when we read it in book club and I loved it. And then probably maybe two, three. About three years ago, maybe two years ago, I picked up I miss you when I blink. It had been sitting on my shelf. I thought, I need to read that. And within the first 25 pages I stopped reading and went and ordered a copy and had it shipped to land on my daughter's door in New Jersey. Because I thought, oh, she's gonna love this book.

B (24:07)

Oh, what made you think so?

A (24:10)

The point when I. When I miss you when I blink, it captures that experience of wanting to feel more like yourself but not quite knowing how to get there. It's insightful but not heavy, not preachy, not didactic, and it's not depressing, but it's funny. And she actually, she read it then and then she reread it about three weeks ago. She goes, I'm rereading. I miss you when I'm blinking. It's just as good the second time. So I pull my copy off the shelf and I probably think about 25% of the pages I have either dog eared or written notes on in this book.

B (24:49)

What a compliment.

A (24:50)

I love it. I absolutely adore it. And it definitely has that it addresses difficult topics. Like it's not that it's not all fluff, but with a light touch and the tone is humorous. It makes you think, man, this Mary Laura full pot would be so much fun to hang out with. I think it Has a lot of aha moments. When I was reading it, it kind of. You have thoughts in your head and then you're reading, you go, oh, that puts words to what I've been thinking about. And so a lot of the experiences and what she was talking about, as far as, you know, in life and change and life has changed as your kids grow up, as life experiences change, how you deal with it and change with it. That's why I love that. And I need to reread it soon.

B (25:41)

You just talked yourself into it.

A (25:43)

I did. I've been looking at it. They're like, oh, I need to do that.

B (25:47)

I think that's a good sign. Okay, well, thanks for telling us about that one. Angela, what's the second book you brought that you love?

A (25:54)

Shadow of Night by Deborah Harkness. And I would say that her series, the Discovery of Witches series, is my favorite series and Shadow of Night is my favorite book in the series. It's the second book in the series, and in this one, the two main characters, Diana and Matthew, we have a witch and a vampire. They go back to Elizabethan London. And I enjoy fantasy, especially that's set around the edges of the real world. And historical fantasy I tend to enjoy when I read it. This is my favorite book of the series because of the history component in had me Googling non stop. They would talk about places in London and I'd be on Google Maps like, oh, where's that? And then people like it. Talks about Mary Sidney a lot, who was a real woman and an alchemist then. And I enjoy the topic because they are both steeped in academia and work at like, Oxford and Yale. And so I love the kind of the academic part of Shadow of Night. It has a romantic element too, with Matthew and Diana. And I like the witchy thing. Witchy books tend to work well for me. And I think that the part that I also love is the setting. I love a very textured detail setting where I could feel like I was there. And I keep looking at the series going, I need to reread that series. But it feels overwhelming to reread the whole series. So I might maybe start rereading some of them.

B (27:30)

Yeah. And then just see what happens.

A (27:32)

Yeah.

B (27:32)

Take it from there. Angela, what's the third book you love?

A (27:36)

The First Ladies by Marie Benedict and Victoria Christopher Murray. I read a good amount of historical fiction and like it. Enjoy it. This historical fiction is about the friendship of Eleanor Roosevelt and Mary MacLeod Bethune. I mean, I knew who they were, but I didn't know details about their lives before reading this. And I was fascinated by what I learned about them and the work they did on together on racial issues. I had no idea Eleanor Roosevelt actually sat in the black section of the segregated theater in 1938. Alabama and Mary McLeod Bethune confronted the KKK when they marched at the college she founded. I love books that have strong female characters. I get a little irritated when you have kind of weak women. So this book I love because you had two strong women characters. And I know in my historical fiction I'm a little quirky, that I prefer more history than fiction. I'll read a book if it's just kind of a general historical setting with mainly fiction. But what really puts one over the top for me is if it's very detailed history. And I love a good, meaty author's note. I get so excited. There's an author's note at the end that's extensive and explains, like, tells me, okay, this is the fictional part of this book. Because I always want to know. Like, I'm always googling and trying to figure it out. Some people have said they're kind of getting tired of multiple points of view and timelines, but I really enjoy a book that has different points of view and timelines because I love trying to figure out how they're going to come together and intersect and to see the connections between their lives the way to be. It has multiple timelines, and it was fascinating, the history in that and how they all brought them all together.

B (29:32)

Is it the alternating timelines that you were definitely here for? I think I heard that as multiple

A (29:37)

points of view, I can do either one.

B (29:39)

Okay. Because I've heard people complain about both, and yet I've read many good books that that have either or both elements in common.

A (29:46)

Either are fine. So, like in Prodigal Summer, they're all on the same timeline, but it's different points of view that you rotate between three stories. And I love trying to figure out how they all came together. And the first ladies, you have like, an Eleanor Roosevelt, though I think that one rotates basically between a chapter from Eleanor Roosevelt's point of view on what's going on with her and then one from Mary McLeod Bethune. So it was very interesting. You could see the similarities and the differences between them. So, no, I am fine with multiple points of view or timelines. I'm good with all of it.

B (30:21)

Angela, now it's time for you to tell us about a book that was not right for you. Can I quote 2020 you about this book? Yes, you can you say being from and living in North Carolina, not liking it is a bit of a sacrilege. That was in July 2020. What is the book you chose that you do not like in 2026 or, you know, whatever. It didn't work for you.

A (30:44)

I still don't like it.

B (30:46)

All right, and tell us why, but what did you choose then and now?

A (30:50)

I chose Cold Mountain by Charles Fraser,

B (30:54)

which I haven't read. So please tell us about it.

A (30:56)

He is held up as one of like the. The great North Carolina writers. So this is probably one of the first books that did help me realize what does not work for me that's valuable. It is historical fiction about a soldier's journey home to Cold Mountain, North Carolina, near the end of the Civil War. I picked it up because I love to read books set in places where we have trips planned or we're going to go visit. And I picked it up because we had a trip planned to the North Carolina mountains, like right near Cold Mountain. I thought, oh great, I'll read this book set on Cold Mountain. This be great. I went back and looked at my Goodreads little blurb that I had written about it and I said that I was traumatized by the violence in it and it felt like a slog. And I do remember when reading it, I kept putting it down and flipping and reading something else and I was like, I just gotta read some other lightweight book and then I'll go back to it. I should have DNF'd it. I truly should have. But at that point, I. That was not something that I considered doing. It had no emotional payoff. Like, if you work all the way through it, you didn't get anything uplifting or good. At the end for me, it's just dark. And I just realized, like, a dark tone does not work for me. And it doesn't end with hope. I need something that ends hopeful. And I did write that I thought it had a unclear or obtuse ending, but I'm not sure if maybe I just didn't get it because I know there's a movie about it. And my husband said, oh, that movie is so depressing because here's what happens at the end. And I don't remember if the maybe I just didn't get it when I read the book. But I do like things to wrap up. So I do remember being frustrated with something about the ending. I didn't feel like it was concluded inclusive. It's just dark.

B (32:52)

So what I'm hearing is that you are looking for a book with an emotional payoff that has some element of hope or goodness.

A (33:01)

Yes.

B (33:02)

And this wasn't it.

A (33:03)

But not saccharine hope or goodness.

B (33:06)

Okay.

A (33:07)

Like not. I can't stand books that are saccharine or cloying. You know, and if it's a tear jerker. Yeah. Cold Mountain's one of those two. It's a described as a tear jerker. No, thank you. I don't like no big emotions and tear jerkery things.

B (33:24)

Okay. Heard. Angela, what have you been reading lately?

A (33:27)

I'm listening to Family of Spies by Christine Kewan. It is fascinating. I keep telling my husband, oh, my gosh, listen to this. This is what happened.

B (33:37)

I mean, this is the laugh of recognition. As in, like, what? How is this real?

A (33:43)

It's amazing.

B (33:43)

She's an amazing writer, too.

A (33:45)

I'm totally. This is gonna be the nonfiction I'm gonna be pushing on people. Truly.

B (33:49)

I don't have experience with the audiobook, so I appreciate hearing that it's very good in that format for you.

A (33:53)

It's fine. It's working. I do a lot of nonfiction on audio just because I work from home. So if I'm. It may take me a while to get through an audiobook. So nonfiction tends to work well because it's not like a propulsive plot then that I feel like I'm constantly trying to get to. So Family Aspies is narrative nonfiction. It's a woman who learns that her grandparents were Nazi spies, so that contributed to the planning of Pearl Harbor. I mean, it is fascinating. I've also. I read earlier this year and absolutely adored Awake by Jen Hatmaker, and it's a memoir of a woman coming into her own and middle age. It has very frank talk in it, but it's not depressing. I mean, it ultimately feels like, hey, we're all working through some stuff and this is how we're going to do it. And here is how I grew in this experience. I thought it felt empowering and I loved it. And last night I started Far and Away by Amy Popel, because it's just light and what?

B (34:58)

Okay, that's so funny, because when I was thinking of books that felt light but didn't feel saccharine, because I hadn't applied that word to your reading, but I didn't think that you were looking for anything that felt overly sentimental or maudlin or twee. Yeah, I thought Amy Popal's such a good writer for someone who engages real human issues from a realistic standpoint and manages to find the humor in the mundanity, but also just the like, what in the world? How do we get here? What is happening? How are we. What's the word I'm looking for? Maybe the humor and the ridiculous reality of the human life and human nature sometimes. And we've read her in book club, so I thought, I know I haven't talked about Far and Away on the podcast. I'm going to jot that one down as a maybe for Angela. Oh, and you started it last night. Okay. How's it working for you so far?

A (35:50)

I like it. So I, I picked it up because it has an art component. I realized, I thought, oh, this will be fun. And I loved musical chairs. I really enjoyed that one. And then I read the Sweet Spot too. I liked it. I liked musical chairs more. But Far and Away is fun. It's light, it's enjoyable. I'm just about 50 pages in so far, but it's fun. I'm curious, like, well, how's this all going to pan out?

B (36:16)

I think musical chairs might be my favorite. Amy Popel. I also really liked Limelight, but I loved reading about Berlin and Far and Away. That was a big draw for me.

A (36:24)

Oh, yes.

B (36:26)

And we got a lot of Texas listeners. It's half set in Berlin and half said in Dallas. So I know that if, that, if that catches your ear, there you go. And I'm glad that Amy Popal's on your radar. Angela, we've talked a little bit about what you're reading for in your reading life right now. You're looking for books that are light, as in you want things to feel light and also be enlightening. You're looking for a good mix of titles for your reading life. You also said something about found family books in your submission. Would you say more about that if that's still on your near horizon or still what you're scanning for?

A (37:01)

I kind of realized it when I was absolutely loved A Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping. I thought, yeah, I really like this found family book. And then I thought about, you know, I loved Winter Solstice, and it was Found Family and Prodigal Summer that I loved was a kind of found family book. So you had these different people coming together. And I loved Search by Michelle Hunniven, which is also kind of this found family of this church committee. So I thought, you know, I like these. But I often feel overwhelmed by books that have large families. So I'm an only child. Both my parents have very small families, so I have no Experience with the. The big bustling family. So I get kind of overwhelmed. Especially when you have books that when everybody's kind of getting into each other's business. I think which one I felt really overwhelmed with one. It was a Sonali Dev book. I think like a Pride Prejudice and Other Flavors had like a red cover. And I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, all these people are into everybody's business. And it felt very overwhelming. So I'm kind of curious about like, well, why do I like these kind of found family books but the other ones, the big family where everybody's very active in each other's lives. Why does that feel too much for me? I'm trying to figure out the difference.

B (38:31)

Mm Mm. What do you think? Do you have a working theory?

A (38:37)

I think maybe there's a little gentler at how they interact with people. I guess maybe I'm wondering if with like the biological family, if they are all just used to kind of invading each other's and telling each other what to do. I just. I don't know. I'm not comfortable with personalities that are very in your face and telling you like she shoulds and oughts and pressuring you to do things. So that's the. The enneagram 5. So I think maybe it's that, that I. I enjoy seeing the interaction and like oh, how does that gonna work? And how. Trying to figure it out but not the kind of over the top. That just feels like too much. And it's also it's. I feel. It feels stressful to me when it's like everybody all together but musical chairs worked and I don't know why that one worked. And it's similar kind of like that, but not as much as like the Sonali Dev book.

B (39:46)

That wasn't a particularly large family. It wasn't particularly small either. You did have a lot of generations running about. You know what I'm wondering? That thread that you said appealed to you books with an emotional payoff with some element of hope or redemption or goodness at the end. That thread's available in all kinds of books. It's not confined to found family stories. You could certainly have that in a like multi generational family novel. But so many found family stories. This is a working theory. Readers, you can tell me I'm like way off base in comments and I can think about it so some more. But so many found family stories involve lonely people coming together and finding community and bonds that feel resilient and lasting. And I wonder if perhaps those elements

A (40:33)

appeal to you Maybe I just thought of also I loved this summer, the Kevin Wilson book, which I can't remember the name of it now. With the PT Cruiser.

B (40:45)

Yes. Run for the hills.

A (40:47)

Yes. And it had kind of that found family, but it was also funny. And so that worked because you did see people come together and feel a sense of belonging in that coming together. I think as a maybe that's the difference. I like books where the people come together and feel like they become more themselves when they come together as opposed to. To a group in which you're told like, no, no, you're doing the wrong thing here or this isn't going to work because I know better for you. I think that's the difference.

B (41:24)

Maybe what I'm hearing is a story where people are punished for stepping out of line feels terrible. But a story where people are welcomed as they are and then feel like they're able to blossom even more, that feels like a soft place to land right now.

A (41:43)

Yeah, I miss you when I blink. Does that so. Well, because she's saying like this is going on with me. I'm not a perfect person, but this is where I am. But it's not judgmental or I'm wrong. And a weight by Jen Hat like you're kind does the same thing. It's more like I'm, you know, this is who I am right now and it's welcoming. It's not making you feel bad or guilty if you feel that way.

B (42:08)

I love finding these common threads, Angela. What are we going to do with them?

A (42:13)

I don't know.

B (42:14)

Okay, well, let's see if we can find some books for you to read next readers. You'll usually find me listening to audiobooks while I'm doing my makeup, but that doesn't mean it's something I want to linger over. I like to keep it simple so I can move on with my day. And Merit Beauty makes that easy. While still delivering the fresh, polished look. I prefer Merit Features, a collection of clean, thoughtfully curated essentials designed to help you look put together in minutes. Their products do more with less and are designs you can easily swipe on and blend with your fingers. No fancy tools or multi step process needed. I especially love their lipsticks and shade slick tinted lip oils and their minimalist complexion stick does double duty as both foundation and concealer when I want a bit more coverage. Plus, anytime I'm putting products on my face, it's great to know that they're vegan, cruelty free and made with nourishing skincare ingredients. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their signature makeup bag with your first order at meritbeauty.com that's M E R I T beauty.com to get your free signature makeup bag with your first order. Merit beauty.com it's time to refresh your yard during Spring Backyard Days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179 like the next grill 3 burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber Spirit Grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay String lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot now through May 6th. Exquisite supplies at home depot.com pricematch for

A (43:46)

details

B (43:48)

so the books we've talked about so far you loved I Miss you When I Blink by Mary Laura Philpot Shadow of Night by Deborah Harkness. This is part of the Discovery of Witches series, which you think may be your favorite series. And this is your favorite book. And then the First Ladies by Marie Benedict and Victoria Christopher Murray. Just noting if you love them as a writing team, they have several out and one more coming soon this summer. Cold Mountain by Charles Fraser by your fellow North Carolinian. Not for you, and hasn't been for a long time. And we've said repeatedly, but we'll say it again, that you want an emotional payoff with some element of hope, hope or goodness in your reading. You didn't find it here. You love books that are a little witchy. You listen to a fair amount of nonfiction. Ooh, I didn't say about the historical. You really like a lot of history, and that's a driver more so than the fiction of historical fiction. And you love a mix for your reading life. So you're open to lots. But keeping that theme of books that are light and or enlightening in mind would feel really good. What else do you want me to know?

A (44:55)

That's about it, I think. Yeah, I just. I try. Obviously. I don't like things like abuse and violence. I stay away from and I just stay away from things that feel cloying or too sweet. If it feels like an inspirational quote could go along with it. No, I don't like things that feel melodramatic or try to jerk you into feeling one way or manipulate your emotions.

B (45:20)

Mm. You know, when you first said that, I immediately started wondering, where is the line? Because a book that feels close. I mean, a book that is close to the line but not over your line could be perfect.

A (45:40)

Right.

B (45:41)

But a book that over the line is gonna feel. What's the word he used? It wasn't maudlin, it wasn't sentimental.

A (45:47)

Saccharine.

B (45:48)

Saccharine. Saccharine was the word. Okay, how about let's leap right in with one that I fear might be saccharine with a big warning label on it. And you can tell me, does this feel safe?

A (46:00)

Okay.

B (46:01)

Or do you want to just skip it? If I think it might be on the wrong side?

A (46:04)

We can try whatever you feel good about.

B (46:07)

Well, I feel good about letting you make the call. The book I'm thinking of is Eddie Winston is Looking for Love by Marianne Cronin. And a lot of readers will recognize her name from the 100 Years of Lenny and Margo. That was her debut that came out a few years ago. Now, I'm a little fearful that this might be a little too sweet for you. And it will be too sweet for some readers, absolutely. And others that I've talked to this book about have said, you know, it walks the line, but it stays right where I needed it to be. But the reason I want to surface this for you is it is a found family story of hard things bringing people together in a way that helps them blossom and flourish and become more themselves. The main character in this book is Eddie Winston of the title. He's 90 years old. He works at, I mean, I picture a Goodwill, but he works at a charity shop in Birmingham, England, and he sorts through things and interacts with clientele who are bringing their goods to donate through the doors. But Eddie has a real knack and I get the sense that he would describe it as his calling to see set aside those items that he suspects people may be sorry in a week or a month or longer that they donated. Such is the case when this 20 something woman named Bella comes through the door and drops off a box of stuff. And she has spiky pink hair. She and Eddie are not the same stage of life or situation or anything, but Eddie's heart really goes out to her and he goes through the stuff she's dropped off and something about the box, including like a clearly beloved pair of. They might be Converse or just something similar, but they've been heavily personalized. He thinks, I don't know the story here, but this young woman is going to want this stuff back. And this happens to Eddie all the time. He's seen it before. And he knows that sometimes in the clearer light of day, people will come back and be like, I don't suppose you still have that coffee mug, that necklace that shirt and it brings him great joy to be able to say it's right here on my special shelf. And Eddie thinks no one else spies what he is up to, but they all totally do and know about Eddie's shelf. But over these things that Bella has dropped off, Eddie and Bella get to know each other. And it turns out that the love of her young life has died. She dropped off all his things at the charity shop in a fit of impulse and one enclosure. And when she comes back for it, she feels so seen by Eddie and the two connect and start hanging out. And she encourages Eddie and his style. He really, I think he makes some local photographer style blog and a leopard print shirt that he grabs from the racks of the charity shop and he helps talk her through the things she's going to right now. But the title Eddie Winston is looking for love. Bella finds out that 90 year old Eddie has never been kissed and she decides I'm going to help this man find love. Now what we find out over the course of the novel is Eddie found love a long time ago, but the timing for that love was all wrong. And through the course of the book we learn more about Eddie's story, we learn more about Bella's story, we see the two moving forward. And then there's this also this other point of view that doesn't at first seem to be related, that's inserted periodically through the story. And by the end of the book all these threads are going to come together in a safe welcoming way that will feel both exactly like what you expected, but not the version that you thought the book was heading toward. Or at least that was my experience and I really liked how I knew what was going to happen, but I didn't know what was going to happen. The same way I might feel reading like a romance or a mystery novel where you know your characters are going to end in a certain place with the mystery tied up or the characters happy for now or happily ever after, but you don't know how you're going to get there. And I was, I was pleased by the journey of this book. Now what do you think? Does that sound like delightful found family or maybe not for you in this season?

A (50:07)

I'll try it, I think. So the multiple threads sounds great, the found family sounds great. And I trust you that it's not saccharine.

B (50:15)

Actually I said I trusted you. I trusted you to decide.

A (50:20)

It sounds interesting. The Bella. I think I like Bella. I love the shoes that remind me I had a pair of pink high top Converse way back when in high school that I had written stuff all over. And I wish I had those shoes still to this day. I guess they got donated at some point, but I'll try it.

B (50:40)

I have some things that I wish I knew where they got up to.

A (50:44)

Y. Yeah.

B (50:45)

Including a great pair of shoes. This is also quite good on audio. I know you mentioned you listen to a lot of nonfiction on audio. Look, I'm a Kentucky girl. You are also from the States. I do love a British narrator. It sounds so delightfully foreign to me. And this is narrated by three different narrators for three different main characters and it was lovely in the format.

A (51:09)

Oh, that sounds good. I do. I listen to fictional audio too, but I do love audio for if it has an accent, it's fabulous.

B (51:20)

I do love listening to somebody who doesn't sound like me.

A (51:23)

Right. And if there are words that like I may not be able to pronounce that I'm like, oh, what's that word? That helps a lot. But my. My pet peeve is a fake Southern accent done poorly.

B (51:36)

Oh, the worst.

A (51:37)

Oh, it's awful. I might just don't even try. So. But British accent. Oh, I'm there.

B (51:45)

Okay. I am pleased to report the next book I have in mind for you is not set in the south and the audio book accents are not bad. But it's from last year's summer reading guide so you may know it. I'm thinking of Jessica Anya Blau's follow up to Mary Jane called Shop Girls. Have you read this?

A (52:01)

I have not. I. I remember hearing about it but I have not read it.

B (52:05)

It's got a little bit of the Kevin Wilson vibes. This is a coming of age story about a wide eyed earnest learning about the world 19 year old protagonist whose name is Zippy and she is the youngest saleswoman on the dress floor at this very real realistic. You can Google it. 1980s San Francisco Department store. This novel is very playful. Like Jessica, Anya Blau is having fun here with her like young doe eyed protagonist. She lives with her 25 year old roommate Raquel who works in the legal field. She might be a lawyer. Zippy thinks she is just unbelievably worldly and sophisticated and knowledgeable. And Zippy just loves hearing Raquel's advice about kissing and men and their mutual crush on the dreamy model from the Berber coffee ads. And the Berber coffee guy is a running gag through the book that pays off big at the end of the story. The way it comes together is so fun. So over the course of the story. Zippy has to take agency over her own life and step into the role of being like the adult in charge. Actually, the way she thinks of this is she wants to learn what it means to be a chooser about what happens to her, not just an object that is, like, acted upon. So she's making big decisions in life and relationships and figuring out what it means. Her home life was untraditional. She was raised by her mom, who's now living with some guy that, like, Zippy likes but isn't her dad. And she feels kind of, like, neutral on. She visits him sometimes. Their work situation is interesting and leads to some humorous moments, but she's just making things happen. And the way she builds her own little family and the way she interacts with the, like, kind of snipey family on the sales floor of the 1980s San Francisco Department store. Actually, that's almost like a family unit. She has the makeup girls she really depends on and the shoe people who show her how to, like, polish up her Goodwill pumps. This is the second book, actually, where I've mentioned Goodwill, but they show her how to make her clothing look crisp and great, even though Zippy has zero money to spend on the clothes that will make her look like she belongs on the dress floor serving the very wealthy California women. It's a little bit of a dysfunctional family, but one that's not, I don't believe, stressful to read about is just kind of gossipy and delightful. And then some threads come together in ways we don't expect. And it's big hearted and upbeat and like, Zippy is just a really fun character to root for. But I will say, like, this novel feels like the best of the 80s, but also the worst of the 80s. The nostalgia is real, but so are things in the book like diet culture and the AIDS crisis. They are very much there. And yet I am hoping, Angela, that I am listening to you faithfully and reading what I'm hearing correctly and thinking that this can be light and enlightening. And also it's not putting its head in the sand, but it is taking a playful tone to the heavy and the light. How does that sound?

A (55:24)

That sounds great. That sounds fabulous. So I think I didn't want total fluff, so. But I love that it has actual, you know, women taking charge of their lives, but also reflects the time period in which it's in with the things that were going on in the 80s. And I remember the 80s very well, so. And actually the. The funny part, as you're talking about that. My first job out of college where I learned that I didn't like the corporate world was I worked in a as a buyer for a large department store chain. And I spent many a time working. I had to for a while work as a manager in a very large store. And I was like, I do not like this, but I have. So it may. So I think I will probably be very humored by all the department store tidbits and the working and things that happen there.

B (56:17)

Oh, I love that for you. That sounds so fun. I mean, that was just pure voyeurism for me. I know nothing. I mean, I've been shopping on a dress floor, but that's the only connection I had to the material. But I love that connection for you there.

A (56:30)

Yeah, that'll be fun.

B (56:32)

Okay, you love a memoir and essays. How do you feel about or maybe you've read the Comfort of Crows by Margaret Renkle.

A (56:39)

I had it on my TBR for a long time and then I had it. I think I had a like a copy that and then I had to give it back to the library. So I've heard good things about it and I actually heard some somebody the other day talking about it. So I've been thinking about that one for a while. And I love nature writing and nature things.

B (57:01)

So so readers have been planting the seeds you've pondered. I'm wondering if this may hit both the light and enlightening, because it's got. I mean, like, nature is not all light hearted. Like she's debating some really serious, serious quandaries like do you rescue the baby bird or do you let nature's take its course? Like, are people actually more important than the animals that we are making ill sometimes by our actions? And she doesn't answer those questions. Like you use the word didactic in a negative way, which I think is how people mostly use it. But like, she lets those questions hang. Like she kind of explores them and that lets them be and gives you space to think about it for yourself. And yet there's something that's very soothing in reading 52 chapters, one for each week, where she is observing the flora and fauna in her backyard in Nashville, Tennessee. And she did this through the whole of 2022, not long after the pandemic changed our lives and our relationship with nature. And she's definitely writing from that specific place and also time. But there's something that's also so steadying and grounding and soothing about the way her writing moves us through the season as the birds and also plenty of other animals are coming and going, and the flowers bloom, and then the blooms fade, the trees leaf out, and then many chapters later, they're shedding their leaves. But it isn't just a nature observation because it does sound and feel very Annie Dillard in that sense. But she's also mapping onto that the way her personal life changes. And I know you're a parent of grown children. She describes, in lovely metaphor, but prose, too, how her grown children are making their own migration through these seasons and chapters. How does that sound to you?

A (59:04)

Oh, that sounds fabulous. So, two questions. One, if it has a different chapter for each week, do you recommend reading it throughout a year and doing the chapter that goes with the week where you are or reading it all at one time?

B (59:20)

I think readers can make arguments for both, which is very unhelpful. You could read this straight through. You could read it in sync with the seasons. If there is nowhere you want to be than somewhere else when it is 97 degrees in North Carolina, which I'm sure will happen at least a few days in July of this year. Maybe you don't want to be reading it in sync. Maybe you want to be reading the December and January chapters during that time. Maybe it will feel really soothing to you if that's what you want to move through alongside her. I don't think there's a wrong way, but there could be a way that feels wrong or very, very right to you. Do you know what kind of reader you're inclined to be when decisions like these arise with such a book?

A (60:05)

I don't know. I enjoy reading seasonally, so I may enjoy doing it a little, you know, that goes along where we are in the year. My other question feeds into that. Is this the book that's supposed to be gorgeous in print? Like, I want a print copy of this to have?

B (60:25)

You know, Angela, I said we weren't going to forget about the art piece. They were going to put that in the hopper. And then I forgot. So I've heard readers say that they really enjoyed this book on audio. They liked listening to Margaret Rankel's own words. But the illustrations have been highly praised there by her brother, Billy Rankle, that she's collaborated with on several different works. If you need to make a decision, I have heard your appreciation for art. I don't know. I think that's worth poking around or deciding what sounds good and taking a chance on it.

A (60:57)

Yeah, I think I might order that in print. I think I will call our local bookstore today. And have them put in an order for me.

B (61:05)

Okay. Well, I'll be excited to hear what you think.

A (61:07)

Yes.

B (61:08)

Okay. Angela, how are you feeling?

A (61:11)

Good. Good. I'm excited about this.

B (61:14)

Well, I'm excited you're excited. Okay. The books that we talked about are Eddie Winston is Looking for Love by Marianne Cronin. Then we talked about Shop Girls by Jessica Anya Blau, and finally, the Comfort of a Backyard Year by Margaret Rankle. Angela, of those books, what do you think you may read next?

A (61:32)

I think I'm gonna order a copy of Comfort of Crows and then maybe try just doing a week at a time for the week and we'll try that and see if I like it. And then I definitely am going to pick up Shop Girls, so I'm going to go ahead and get on the library holds list for that one too.

B (61:48)

That sounds lovely. I can't wait to hear what you think. Angela, thank you so much for talking books with me today.

A (61:54)

Thank you. It was wonderful.

B (62:00)

Hey, readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Angela and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find Angela on Instagram. We'll have that link along with the full list of titles we talked about today at what Should I read next? Podcast.com Please make sure you're following in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Overcast, wherever you get your podcasts. When you take a moment to leave a comment, star or review that also helps others discover our show. Follow us on Instagram at what Should I Read Next? And please tag us when you share our episodes or posts in your stories and we will repost. Thank you in advance and join our email list at what Should I read next? Podcast.com newsletter to keep up with all the happenings here at what Should I Read Next? Hq. Thanks to the people who make the show happen. What Should I Read Next? Is created each week by Executive Producer Will Bogle, Media Production Specialist Holly Wokachevsky, Social Media Manager and Editor Lee Kramer, Community Coordinator Bridget Mistlehorn, Community Manager Shannon Malone, and our whole team at what Should I Read Next? And Modern Mrs. Darcy HQ. Plus the audio whizzes at Studio D. Podcast production readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening. And as Reiner Maria Rilke said, ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading. Happy reading, everyone.