172. Jenny Bird | The Chapters of Jenny Bird

Summary

What We Wore | Episode 172: Jenny Bird | The Chapters of Jenny Bird
Host: Laura Vinroot Poole
Guest: Jenny Bird
Date: April 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid, insightful conversation, Laura Vinroot Poole sits down with Jenny Bird, founder and designer of her eponymous jewelry brand, to trace the winding path of Jenny’s career and personal growth. Jenny shares stories from her rural Canadian upbringing, her “quarter life crisis,” the leap into entrepreneurship, weathering early failures, building her brand with integrity, and navigating the challenges of womanhood—especially as a founder entering perimenopause. The episode delves into the power of trusting one’s inner voice, the importance of resilience and authentic creativity, and the realities of growing a business as both an artist and a mother.

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Early Life & Creative Roots

(Timestamp: 00:29 – 06:31)

• Jenny grew up in Elora, Ontario, a small, picturesque, artistic rural town, living on her grandfather’s farm from grade five.
  • “It was a beautiful, spacious place to dream as a child and have…such peace really in nature. Also very isolating.” (B, 00:53)
• Family legacy of craft and resourcefulness: both grandmothers had sewing rooms; her mother sewed her wedding dress. Jenny was hooked on the “possibilities of a roll of fabric.”
  • “The transformation of a raw material into a product is still what drives me forward today. Like, it’s so exciting to see the possibilities in material.” (B, 03:48)
• First fashion and jewelry memories:
  • Her father dressing with intention every morning as a signal of self-built success.
  • Exploring her mom and grandmothers’ jewelry drawers, handling costume beads and imagining their stories.

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Following the “Safe Path” & Quarter Life Crisis

(Timestamp: 06:33 – 11:50)

• Jenny pursued business school, influenced by her parents’ focus on security, and entered a career in brand marketing.
  • “I didn’t have my own voice and opinion about what my life should be until I hit my quarter life crisis at 25.” (B, 06:39)
• Laura and Jenny discuss the concept of the quarter life crisis, the solitary feeling of questioning one’s path while peers seem content.
  • “I was a VP of marketing. My parents were very proud…I had a career. I didn’t have a life.” (B, 07:49)
• Pivotal turning point in Boston: Saw a future she didn’t want (corporate life), followed by an impromptu visit to a fashion store where she pretended her nonexistent handbag line already existed, manifesting the next step of her career.

Notable Quote

“I walked out so high and excited. And I just thought this is how I want to feel. I want to make these bags.” (B, 12:19)

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Building the Brand (and Surviving the Meltdowns)

(Timestamp: 12:27 – 18:27)

• Jenny started with handbags (“I was never a bag person… it was so hard!”) hustling for exposure at trunk shows and specialty shops.
  • “The whole business… all of my investment fell out from under me because…no one was buying.” (B, 13:44)
• The 2009 recession forced a hard pivot: she leaned into designing jewelry, sourcing vintage beads and parts, and producing handmade collections at her kitchen table.
• Creating a brand as an extension of self:
  • A psychotherapist, Erica Engel, gave her “permission” to pursue work that felt natural and aligned.
  • Jenny’s husband was steadfast in support, but the business was entirely bootstrapped and built on resilience through hardship.

Notable Quote

“In any hardship, that’s such a gift…am I going to be resilient? And pivot?” (B, 13:46)

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Brand Evolution & Creative Process

(Timestamp: 18:35 – 25:18)

• Jenny Bird has always borne Jenny’s name; the brand evolved in aesthetics as her “taste keeps getting better and better.”
  • “I give myself permission to evolve the brand in front of the market as I evolve. And that is really important…” (B, 18:35)
• Emphasis on sharing imperfect work and refining through feedback rather than waiting for perfection.
• Market strategy: Relentlessly pursued partnerships with influential stores (e.g., Intermix, Bendel’s), using vision boards and direct outreach.
• Distinctive, intentional design: Jenny avoided “trend poisoning” by focusing inward.
  • “If it goes through one person’s taste, it will look distinctively Jenny Bird. If I love it, it’s gonna look like JB.” (B, 23:12)
• Analog roots: Jenny sculpts in clay for jewelry design (“I want designers who want to get their hands dirty”)—finding creative flow away from screens.

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Business Philosophy: Growth Without Outside Money

(Timestamp: 25:18 – 27:19)

• The company is bootstrapped (with a short-term family loan repaid within two years).
• Jenny prioritizes creative freedom over the pressure and expectations that come with outside investors.
  • “If there’s ways to do it with people that are not going to hold you accountable to numbers on paper and really just believe in you…and building a special brand, take it from them instead.” (B, 26:29)
• Jenny’s strategic habit: “Operating bigger than I was before that stage”—leasing offices and scaling ahead of need.

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Womanhood, Leadership, and Navigating Perimenopause

(Timestamp: 27:24 – 32:45)

• Jenny speaks openly about the complexity of midlife as a founder, mother to young children, and daughter of aging parents—while navigating perimenopause.
  • “You’re not biologically supposed to be doing that at the same time as your aging parents… The feeling of time running out with my parents—it's gonna make me cry.” (B, 27:44)
• Building an all-female leadership team to support both business growth and work-life balance.
  • “When people say I do it all—No, I don’t do it all… I have incredible professional executive women around me…” (B, 28:40)
• Laura and Jenny discuss societal silence around menopause and how it is as transformative as a “quarter life crisis”:
  • “[Perimenopause] is like a caterpillar going into a chrysalis…it liquefies completely before it transforms into a butterfly.” (B, 31:00)
  • “It feels like I’m meeting myself anew.” (B, 31:39)
• They advocate for creating work cultures where emotion and vulnerability are accepted, not hidden.

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Jenny’s Approach to Trends & Timelessness

(Timestamp: 35:14 – 37:40)

• Jenny’s “crystal ball effect”: Anticipating women’s style desires and translating trends into timeless, wearable pieces.
  • “What I do best… I beat the trends at their own game… and interpret it into what it could mean in a more timeless expression.” (B, 35:14)
• Delegating and focusing on this creative work as the business grows.
• Drawing inspiration from contemporary brands with strong, seasonless points of view.

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Canadian Identity & Scaling Abroad

(Timestamp: 37:40 – 38:58)

• Jenny attributes Canadian humility to a hesitance to self-promote; reflects on the challenges of building a brand in a small, less affluent domestic market.
  • “The entire country of Canada does not spend as much as the city of LA on accessories.” (B, 38:11)
• Early push into the US market was strategic for growth.

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Wisdom for Founders & Manifesting Dreams

(Timestamp: 39:02 – 41:39)

• Jenny urges entrepreneurs to trust their inner voice but selectively share their dreams, building supportive, creative-minded circles.
  • “Only you know how to best steer your brand forward when you’re building a special brand and not, you know, some corporate machine… You need their knowledge maybe, but not their decision.” (B, 39:02)
• The power in “living on the adding to and creating side of life,” and how the people you surround yourself with are crucial for creative risk-taking.

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Personal Reflection: Motherhood, Surprises & Prom

(Timestamp: 33:07 – 44:43)

• Jenny surprises herself by finding profound joy in motherhood after years of indifference, paralleling Laura’s own experience.
  • “Turns out that I’m a very natural mom, and I love it.” (B, 33:07)
• Hilarious prom story: Jenny skipped prom to go skydiving with her boyfriend (who bailed at the last minute); she jumped solo, reflecting her willingness to take leaps both literally and figuratively.
  • “I went on my own. I was so into this idea and I couldn’t believe that he dropped out of that.” (B, 44:01)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

On the power of crafting:

“The transformation of a raw material into a product is still what drives me forward today.” (B, 03:48)

On pivoting careers:

“I was Jenny Bird. I didn’t have a handbag line yet. That’s how I started.” (B, 12:02)

On evolving creatively:

“If it goes through one person’s taste, it will look distinctively Jenny Bird.” (B, 23:12)

On womanhood and business:

“As women… our biggest advantage is we have this natural intuition. Unless it’s a full body YES, it’s a no.” (B, 29:22)

On perimenopause:

“[It] feels like I’m meeting myself anew.” (B, 31:39)

On entrepreneurship:

“You need their knowledge maybe, but not their decision.” (B, 39:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:29 – 06:31: Childhood, craft, and first creative memories
• 06:33 – 11:50: Quarter life crisis and manifesting a new path
• 12:27 – 18:27: Building the business, pivoting from bags to jewelry
• 18:35 – 25:18: Brand evolution and creative process
• 25:18 – 27:19: Bootstrapping and business philosophy
• 27:24 – 32:45: Womanhood, leadership, and perimenopause
• 35:14 – 37:40: Trends, design, and Jenny’s creative vision
• 37:40 – 38:58: Canadian identity and scaling abroad
• 39:02 – 41:39: Advice for founders & sharing your dreams
• 33:07 – 44:43: Motherhood, personal revelations, and skydiving instead of prom

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Final Thoughts

The episode is a rich, honest exploration of Jenny Bird’s journey and the interconnectedness of life, creativity, business, and womanhood. Jenny’s warmth, self-awareness, and resilience offer both practical advice and deeper emotional wisdom for anyone at a crossroads—personally or professionally.

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For more, follow @shopcapitol and @whatweworepodcast on Instagram.

Transcript

[A]

I'm Laura Vinroot Poole and this is what we wore. Our guest today is Jenny Bird, the founder and designer of her namesake jewelry brand. Jenny shares so much wisdom from her quarter life crisis to building a career that's an extension of who you are. Even entering perimenopause as a female founder. Jenny, tell me, I assume you're Canadian.

[B]

I am.

[A]

You seem nice. Where are you from?

[B]

I grew up in a tiny artistic town. It's really famous for its beauty. Elora, Ontario, till grade five. And then I moved out to a farm just on the outskirts of that town. Actually. My grandfather, my grandpa Bird's farm, we took it over. So I lived a very rural life.

[A]

And what kind of farm was it, Jenny?

[B]

Just multi like crops and I had horses and you know, lots of little animals running around. It was, my parents were pursuing other careers, so it was, it was not a, the farm that we made our family made our livelihood on, but my parents both came from that upbringing. So it was a beautiful, spacious place to, to dream as a child and have, you know, just such a, such peace really in nature. Also very isolating.

[A]

Yeah, we seem like we're about the same age. So no Internet, things like that?

[B]

Yeah, no Internet. No cable TV out there. We had four stations that we could turn on a dial to get. I didn't see, you know, any cable TV until I was in university. We just didn't, we just didn't have it. Yeah, but I didn't know any better so I was happy.

[A]

And how many people live there? Your grandparents were there?

[B]

Yeah, my grandparents were around the corner. Both on their own. You know what happens in, at least in Canada with farmers when they retire is they sever a lot off the farm. They can still see the farm but they build a bungalow beside it. And both grandparents did that. And so they were just down. One was walkable and one was about a 10 minute car drive away in the countryside. And my parents met in like a junior farmers hayride, which was the big community group for kids, youth and farm when they grew up.

[A]

And then do you have, you have siblings?

[B]

I have one older sister who now lives with my parents in the nearest biggest city. They've all moved out of the country.

[A]

And were y'. All. So you, were you into horses and did you do crafts and things like that or.

[B]

Yeah, I mean it was a Hallmark movie really in terms of, you know, the, the beauty of the town and, and our farm and crafts were, you know, what you. What wasn't. What was the hard part? Part about it is there was not a lot of means. Right. Like, we were. My parents were very poor growing up. And then, you know, we. I was raised middle class. My parents were. Both had both pursued professions to do that for themselves. But craft, the power of craft. I saw early on, my mom sewed her own wedding dress. My grandmother was. Both my grandmothers had dedicated sewing rooms in their homes, which I just went to as soon as I got in the door. Yeah. With a sewing machine always there and ready. Mainly because they needed to make the clothes for their numerous kids, financially needed to. But I was just enthralled by the possibilities of like a roll of fabric from a young age, seeing them do that.

[A]

Do you have a first memory of sewing something or choosing the fabric and the pattern?

[B]

The most poignant is likely my. A pillow in home at class in grade seven because it was a really a tangible piece of decor I could put in my bedroom. But, you know, earlier than that was numer. I mean, thousands, probably hundreds of scrunchies. Yeah, that's the easiest gateway.

[A]

But it is. But it's also like, so fun to pick fabrics for that in colors.

[B]

Oh. I mean, the transformation of a raw material into a product is still what drives me forward today. Like, it's so exciting to see the possibilities in material. And therefore material shopping becomes the most exciting part still today. Like, still chains and different components that we could integrate into our collections. I still find that, like, just so exciting. Or vintage parts as well. Do you have a.

[A]

Do you have a first fashion memory?

[B]

Oh, there wasn't a lot of fashion around us. Right. There was no high school in my town, so I was bused to the nearest town over. So were a lot of other farm kids. And so you've got small town kids and farm kids among those. There was, I do remember, actually, one set of twins and their family had some money and so they were wearing the latest clothes from the Gap that it obviously was like a mall, you know, an hour. It was just like, I mean, at that point, the latest, like plaid wool skirt from the Gap was fashion in our town. And I just remember, you know, because they would have to drive like a couple of hours into the city to get to the Gap. And I remember seeing them walking in the halls and understanding really the power from them, the power of good taste and style. And when you're wearing clothes that suit you, they had. They had wonderful taste. And it wasn't too long after that that I had a chance to start to build own, you know, go to the Gap myself our nearest even city where my family lives now doesn't. Didn't even have it. We had to drive further than that and, and then get exposed later on in life to like how big the fashion world actually was. But I knew I would say the other influence for me for fashion earliest memory was just my dad. He was building a life for himself with the little means he had starting an insurance business and the way he would put together, put himself together in the morning with such intention to be the successful business entrepreneur that he wanted to be. And dressing like that before he was. I remember him hanging his suit jacket in the car, never sitting on it. There was just such care in how he put himself together. So I think those two were the biggest early fashion memories.

[A]

Yeah, I love that. What about, do you have a first jewelry memory?

[B]

My mom's drawers, you know those drawers, the top shallow drawer in the dresser lined with those beaded necklaces and then that was how hers were lined in the drawer and then my grandmother's. Both had the classic dressing table with all the plastic beads and pearls hanging on the little hooks and just going into that dressing table and again they didn't have much but what they had was hung with such care and God, those beads would be amazing today.

[A]

Probably Bakelite. Really?

[B]

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

[A]

And so out of high school you, what did you pursue in, in university?

[B]

You know, I followed the path of security and financial security that my parents were so knew that I was capable of whatever I wanted to do. But let's make sure that you know, she never is poor like we were growing up and business school was suggested and so I followed that. I didn't have my own voice and opinion about what my life should be until I hit my quarter life crisis at 25. And really.

[A]

Okay, after I'm so into this. Wait. Well, because I definitely had a quarter life crisis. I have a 21 year old daughter who's just finished one. I. This is a new concept, right? Like, I mean I think that they don't now they don't even consider, they don't consider depression in late adolescent women specifically to be depression. They now, they now think it's called quarter life crisis, which is really like a totally new concept and when you think about it that way, it's so empowering.

[B]

It is. I think it's good. It's a checkpoint.

[A]

My mom had it too in the 60s and I think we all thought it was depression. And now reframing it is so helpful.

[B]

Yeah, that's really empowering. Yeah. I think we, we. We have a natural tendency to please everyone and be successful to our parents and want to be as kids just by how they reacted to us growing up. And so I was a VP of marketing. My parents were very proud. I was, I was happy to make them proud. Yeah. But I had a career. I didn't have a life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't have the life that I wanted. And when I started to chat with people who introduced me to the notion that you could, it was, it was very like, bewildering. And like you said, it, it me, what was it all for? Yeah. You know, this life is so short. Doesn't anyone want to just pursue joy?

[A]

I know. And let me ask you this because in my experience, and I think in my daughters too, did you feel alone in that? Because I, I really did. I think she and I both did because everybody else seemed to be totally fine just moving along, not thinking about anything, just like, this is all fine. I'm just gonna keep on going. Did you, did you have any support in that at the time? Or is it upon reflection that you understand be a quarter life crisis?

[B]

I. I felt very alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Very misunderstood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I actually thought, why isn't anyone else feeling like this?

[A]

Yeah. Everybody just seems to be sailing along, not thinking.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It was only till really a lot later, after everyone thought I was crazy and I was pursuing the early stages of Jenny Bird, that I. That then, then people would. Reaction would be, wow, I love that you did that. And then I could tell that their reaction was, what? What, Maybe I should do something too. You know, it was only later that I realized the validation. Not that you need it from anyone, but it is really hard to do something really challenging at the same time while feeling alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because up until that point, I had nothing but support for all of my choices and my pursuits. And then you're going to do the hardest thing you've ever done with everyone. Like, with no one, it felt like no one really truly understanding you. Especially up in Canada. There's not as many. There's not as much of a entrepreneurial culture up here. It's very provincial. It's very like following the path. And so it was a very isolating time. But I just had this knowing that I would just be so I could build this, this life of my dreams on the other side. And it was going to be worth. Worth it.

[A]

Extraordinary really. So. So business school and also did you have like, during that time, were you like, I have to get out of this place, whatever I do has to be out of this small town.

[B]

I had left the small town to pursue marketing. Actually similar. I just listened to Claire Hornby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And her background. I had pursued a brand marketing career. So there was a pivotal moment when in that. So I was already working in Toronto, flying back and forth to New York for work in other cities. And there was a pivotal moment in Boston when I realized I was there for work, that that was it, that I needed to make a change. I was, I was then around middle aged people who had stayed and hadn't made that change. And it scared me more to not. To not do it.

[A]

And so you worked in marketing for eight or ten years?

[B]

I did.

[A]

And what did. And what was your biggest lesson in that? What did you learn?

[B]

I said I'd observed female CMOs at massive Fortune 500 companies and watching them in a meeting. We know we were consultants that were coming in to do brand strategy from an ad agency perspective. And I thought I don't want that career. She's moving her family all over the states for her for this job to work for these corporations. It just felt so soulless and not purpose led. Fine for some. But I didn't understand it. And this was where my business degree path was supposed to be. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of a successful life. And so I guess I realized that the gig was up on what was supposed to be this happy path in my career. And that day in Boston for work, I had a few hours after my meetings to go before a flight home. And I went into a fashion store. And I've always been one to put myself in a future state to see if I really loved it to help me manifest. And I walked into one of the best fashion specialty stores in Boston and I said I was Jenny Bird. I didn't have a handbag line yet. That's how I started. Before jewelry it was bags. I said I have a handbag line. To the woman who was manager in the store and is the owner. Was could I get the owner's email? I'd send her a lookbook. And she said oh, Jenny Bird. I think I've heard of that. And I was like yeah, for sure. It's contemporary. Anyway, I'll send you guys a lookbook. And I walked out so high and excited. And I just thought this is how I want to feel. I want to make these bags. So I stopped. I bought a Nordstrom. I bought a bag to take apart to understand the pattern making side on the way home.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And that was the decision. Yeah, that's amazing. I think standing in your future state always and seeing how you feel, it just. I just felt alive.

[A]

That's amazing. Were you a bag person? I'm not a bag person.

[B]

No. No. And I never was. And for some reason, I thought that was the best thing to start the business in. It was so hard. Oh, my God, Laura. Like the, the actual. The functionality, the cost of beautiful leather, the cost of beautiful hardware, the manufacturing domestically, the whole thing was almost impossible. Wow.

[A]

And this is early 2000s.

[B]

Yes. This is like right at the. Right at the precipice. Rebecca Minkoff had had some. Had had some progress at this point. There was other, you know, entry, like, accessible luxury brands coming in. I got a trunk show at Henry Bendell at the time to launch the bags. It was, you know, out of pure hustle, like, just, just, just in, like calling and introducing myself and walking in the store and saying this bag line was coming. And then the recession hit in 09, and it was. It just. The whole business, all of my investment fell out from under me because it was. No one was buying me. Fendi and Gucci, they were all on sale for $500. There was no. All the agents I had lined up to represent me called and they said, jenny, I have no market for you.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But in doing the bags, like, in any hardship, that's such a gift. There was such a moment of, okay, am I going to be resilient? And pivot. I had a taste of being a founder and a designer and having this beautiful life. And so I had made custom hardware on the bags and really enjoyed the casting process and learning that. And so I quickly developed a first little jewelry collection and sold that on my kitchen table. And I loved every minute of it. It was like a natural design language to me, like designing these little sculptures, it came more natural than the bags. They were always like a love hate designing those bags.

[A]

Can I rewind a minute and ask you who introduced you to the idea that a job could be more of a natural extension to who you were before? The walking into the store in Boston and saying you had a handbag line when you didn't?

[B]

Yeah. So just before that, the gumption, the sort of bravado to actually do it came from a woman named Erica Engel. She's a psychotherapist in Toronto. And I was promoted to VP at the. In my brand marketing career and sent on this professional development day, ironically, to this woman who. Who was leading it. And she was, you know, coaching executives to achieve their potential. And I had A session with her after, because she just seemed so fascinating. And this here was a woman the age of my mom telling me it was okay to actually do this for myself and to take a risk where I had the opposite guidance from home, because I understood why. And I had a session with her and I was talking about what I knew. My innate talent was both in creating products and ideas and being a trend hunter. I knew I had that natural ability, but also in creating a brand. And she just looked at me and said, why don't you do that for yourself? And I just loved that this woman of that generation was giving me permission. I needed to hear it.

[A]

And what about people in your personal life? Were you married at the time?

[B]

None.

[A]

None.

[B]

I mean, my husband, I was like, okay, Birdie. Like, we met at university. So he always calls me Birdie. Like, everyone called each called me Bird at school. So he's like, bird, yeah, whatever. Like, go for it. He was steadfast always. But she was the one that introduced me to that idea. And once it was in my head, I kind of. It was.

[A]

It was.

[B]

It was always simmering at the surface, but once someone said, here's a key, Go. It's up to you, it was so empowering. I remember that day like yesterday.

[A]

Have you been in communication with her since?

[B]

Ever again, she's come to a cup. We had these crazy sample sales when the brand was just like early on fire, like, you know, eight years in. And it was just line up around the block in Toronto. And she would come to those and it would just be so. She was like, look what you did. It was amazing.

[A]

That was awesome. I would cry my eyes out.

[B]

Me too. Me too.

[A]

Okay, so back to 2009, when the bags didn't work out, how did you reorganize the business or put that together?

[B]

I mean, we really had nothing but boxes of our first production run of bags that nobody wanted. We tried to sell those off cheaply for some cash. We've always. We are 100% bootstrapped to date, which has been a beautiful way to be. And so we just had to make it work. It was about getting a little bit of money in to then develop that first jewelry collection and not to be afraid that it just was what it could be. I needed my mortgage payment that month, so I had a. So I could make with materials without getting expensive equipment or hiring expensive factories and casting and making a lot of molds. What could I do with materials that were readily available to me and make a product that was what could I concoct. It's. No, it's like cooking in a recipe with all these beads that and other parts. And I could learn to make leather closures. And how could I put all of this together in a craft that would look and be so high fashion because of the way that I put it together? And my designs were all handmade by me at the beginning. I would go to New York and source the coolest vintage beads. This was at the time Lizzie Fortunato was starting out, too. I love those girls. And they were the same. They had an eye to put together raw materials in a way that was so chic. And that's what I did at first. It didn't require high capital expense. I would get some sales. I was doing small, local sales while still pursuing this high contemporary brand vision. I would know that I would get some money and start to, like, put it back into the business to get more sophisticated as a designer and learn better, learn more, learn to cast and eventually fly overseas and beg a factory that I knew was top in the game to take me, which is what I had to do.

[A]

And Jenny was. The name was the same and the marketing was that all the same. The handbags were Ginny Bird as well as the jewelry.

[B]

Yeah, it was always Jenny Bird. I mean, the first logo had the serif font and was very different as my taste got better. My taste, I think, keeps getting better and better as I age. So I just. I give myself permission to evolve the brand in front of the market as I evolve. And that is really important, actually, for that to be free to do that, because it's never going to be perfect and it's never going to be relevant if it stays the same. So, you know, I had the serif font in this, like, very classic traditional identity, and then that morphed over the years. My main word mark has stayed the same now in terms of typography, but of course, the product and the evolution, I'm proud of it. It's no different than a recording artist. You know, I evolved. So it evolved as I got more sophisticated. You know, everything in the brand did. And I think what holds a lot of young founders up today is that they. They feel like they need it to be so perfect before they put anything out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it can be just so rewarding, and you can get so many insights to help you shape it. If you do just start to share things and don't judge yourself so much. You know, were you.

[A]

Were you marketing to the same stores as well as you had worked with before or was that. Was it a whole different group?

[B]

Well, the bags, I. I never. I got a few. No similar stores like, you know, the. So back in that. In that time, early 2000s, we needed intermix, we needed shop. You know, I needed to be carried there because I knew that the independent specialty stores like Capital were watching at that time, not anymore. Were watching what they picked up because those fashion directors were very influential. So I had them on my vision board and I relentlessly pursued my dream partners until they carried the brand. I just asked them what they needed, I made what they needed. I listened to what they were looking for. And I remember the day Intermix sent me an order for a necklace I made.

[A]

Wow. That was what I was going to ask. What was the gap that you saw in the market for jewelry?

[B]

Oh, jewelry is a. A wild west. It is so commoditized. It is filled with companies that are pumping money behind designs that are not original to them, often duplicated by from others. We get that all the time now. And just soulless. And so what I was excited to do was to make these beautiful mini sculptures that were very intentional in all ways. They had the quality and the engineering of fine jewelry in the fashion space because no one was taking the time. It's such a. It's a profitable category, so it gets licensed out a lot. And people just like, it's like quick bake, you know, it's like ready bake croissants. It's like versus, like, wait a minute, how could you know, what are some original concepts in engineering we can bring into this category and how beautiful we can make this product and have a crazy beautiful brand experience. It's so luxurious and have a fair price point. No one was doing that. And that's that sweet spot, right. Of price and quality that I'm always still so obsessed with hitting. And then it became very clear to me that I really had a disdain for stones and sparkle, even that word. And so clean metals were just, I thought, so chic. And no one was doing it well. Marc Jacobs, Kate Spade, even Michael Kors, like dominating the department store cases at the time with these enamel colorful jewelry. Like, it was. This is it. Like I'm walking into, you know, the department stores and these are my options. The very cool jewelry I was interested in was either vintage or more obscure, independent lines that then weren't having that, like, commercial visibility. And I thought it would be really cool to do both.

[A]

I also think one of the things that you do so well, that is hard for me to even understand is my daughter and I were talking about it the other day how jewelry is really tough because you have. I mean, you have five categories. Bracelets, rings, necklaces, earrings. And there's only so much you can do. And I think one of the things that is really clear about your jewelry from the start is it. It really doesn't look like anything else. Like, I've never. You know, it doesn't. It's not even similar to anything else. How do you have that singular vision, especially in something that you had no. You had no experience in, and you just jumped into.

[B]

I think that kind of gives you an advantage, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember early on just feeling a little sickened by, like, taking in. Of course, I looked at what other brands were doing, so I knew what was on the market. But then it became, like, almost poisonous to pay attention to, and it was feeding my subconscious with shapes and things that were already there. And so there was a moment when I decided just not pay attention, and that was really beneficial. I always think of it as, like, writing my own song. I go off and, like, I. I think of it. I do think there's a lot of parallels to the music industry in an album and jewelry collections. And I always just go off and try to Madonna myself, but stay true to my. But, you know, so it's going to be fresh and innovative. That's what we need to do. You know, people want to be excited. They're buying. They're. They don't need the same thing over and over and over, especially when it's well made. So I would just give myself permission to be free and not watch and design something that I loved. And the one natural outcome is if it goes through one person's taste, it will look distinctively Jenny Bird. Right. Like, if I love it, it's gonna look like jb.

[A]

I think also the fact that you sculpt is unusual in clay. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, analog. I don't know how designers design completely digitally in, like, 3D renderings. I think it helps us. It does. We use it. It helps us refine ideas, hollow things out, get the weight right so that the. But the outer shape stays as dramatic. But coming up with an idea, if it has to come out of the clay for me or out of the pencil, like sketching, because then I can, like, erase. I can. I can. I mean, I think you talked about this with Claire, too. It's the same thing. I want designers who want to get their hands dirty because. And in the analog process, that's where I reach a creative flow. It goes back to me making the jewelry myself for the first few years, I guess. Yeah. Why not?

[A]

Yeah. Tell me why you've chosen to build the business slowly and never take outside investment. Did somebody recommend that to you or. That was just.

[B]

No. There was times when we really needed it. Yeah. My husband and I. Oh my God. I. There was really. You know. I'm sure you do. Yeah, it's. It's a real. It's really hard in those times. Eh. Because it's. You feel like the funds will give you the oxygen you need. But I was always more scared of the pressure that it would. It would give me to have to return. That we did once when we really ran out like we were. We were done. Like we had. We had used our nine lives and we put a PowerPoint, a PowerPoint presentation together and drove down the highway to both parents and asked for $75,000 each from both of our sets of parents and that we would repay it. And we showed them the business plan and. Which we did in. Actually in three years. I think we did it in two. So they were a lifeline at one point, but that was it. Otherwise, a lot of credit card debt. I cashed in all my savings, like all my RSPs. And the worst part is my dad at that point was my investment.

[A]

Like. No, Jenny.

[B]

His office knew when I was calling to cash in the end of my. Yeah, but I think, you know, taking. If you need it, you know you need it. But if there's. If there's ways to do it with people that are not going to hold you accountable to numbers on paper and really just believe in you and your vision and building a special brand. Take it from them instead.

[A]

What were the biggest moments when you knew that you were setting yourself up for long term success?

[B]

My secret has always been operating bigger than I was before that stage. And so I would say each moment we got a new lease because I just was going to be the company that needed that office and I would get it before we needed it. Yeah.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What personal or professional challenge are you facing now?

[B]

Menopause. Yeah.

[A]

I'm 54.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. Perry. I'm right in the heart of Perry. Near the tail end. It is wild.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I bring that up because we don't talk about it enough. But as women in this stage of life, I have young kids too. I had kids late. So I have kid. I have a 6 year old and an 11 year old.

[A]

Oh my God, Jenny.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't think you're, you know, you're not biologically, like, supposed to be doing that at the same time as then your aging parents. And so I think, I think the feeling of time running out with my parents, it's gonna make me cry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's so true.

[A]

I know it is. I've lived it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So hard.

[B]

It's so hard. But I think as a woman, like, like this right now, this, this is hormonal surge. But, you know, I think you have to balance ambition with where your heart truly wants to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think you can. I think you can do that. You have to hire more in your business, so you can do that.

[A]

And it's so true because you're in almost all female business. Right, Jenny?

[B]

As am I. Yeah. We have an all female C suite. Yeah. Which is amazing. And I think, you know, one of the things that I've done really well is to hire that support around me so that I can. When people say I do it all. No, I don't do it all. Actually. I have incredible professional executive women around me that know this brand and have so much institutional knowledge here because they've been here for many years with me. Yeah. And know how to carry the brand forward and, um, and are, you know, our women. And so that is the biggest gift because they, we, as women, I think our biggest advantage is we have this natural intuition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we know, we know. You know, I always follow the rule. Unless it's a full body. Yes. It's a no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think, like, it's yes. You have to have the professional experience. But to have those women around me that are actually in used to and practicing listening to their inner voices and being conscious, conscious leaders in the company has been amazing. And it's allowed me to spend more time with my parents and my kids and not feel like. And feel like I can, you know, have it all. Not do it all, but have it all.

[A]

Well, there's this. There's also. I wish I had Joe Rogan's producer because there, there's some. There's some crazy statistic about women leaving the workforce during perimenopause. It's like 75%, you know, and it is because of all those things. It's because you're dealing with aging parents and children and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And nobody talks about that. I wish I could. Meredith will tell me it's a whole

[B]

other episode you do.

[A]

But so do say, though. But I was gonna say, does your. So your. Your team is all different ages of women, correct.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.

[B]

No 60s. I think I'm the oldest one. Right. Yeah.

[A]

But the things you face in every decade, I think is different, too. I mean, I think everybody's, you know,

[B]

dealing with different stuff 100%. And I think that it's very difficult as a mother in perimenopause, because as much as your partner, if he's a man, can be supportive, and I have an amazingly supportive one. There's no way for them to understand.

[A]

No.

[B]

And there is a natural tendency to want to be alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you are going through such a significant transformation. You do want to, you know, isolate yourself, and there's a real craving for that. That can. That can be really hard on your partner and them to understand. You know, I verbalize it, but it is. It is. I've heard that menopause. Perimenopause into menopause is like a. Is like a caterpillar going into a chrysalis that is such a significant full body, full being transformation that it liquefies completely before it transforms into a butterfly. And I'm like, wow, I love that. So. And it does feel like that. It feels like I'm meeting myself anew.

[A]

Yes, for sure. And it's funny, I was talking to a person on my team who's in her 40s, and she was asking about it, like, why is this happening? You know, the night sweats and the. Like, I feel crazy. And. And I said, one of the ideas about it is that your body is actually shaking you by the shoulders and being like, what are you doing? What are you doing with your life? Like, is this the direction you really want to go? Go in? And it's. That's. That is the whole point of perimenopause, I guess, is to move into menopause and go along back to that quarter life crisis. Right. Like, go the path that you. The right path. And to. To think about it and to really consciously say, actually, this is where I want to go.

[B]

You're. You're so right. I was just going to say that. It's exactly right back to that. It is where. Yeah. Where you're choosing. Meeting yourself anew on the other side. And. Yeah, it's really. It's a really powerful time. And you're. And to do that while running a company, you know, and having to be stable, it really. It really takes all. You might cry on a podcast.

[A]

I do it every time.

[B]

No, no, you know, I mean, it's human. It's. I'm. I Never. I always. You know, there was that old adage and of not being able to cry in the workplace. We fully embrace it here. We do, too. Oh, that's great.

[A]

Is there something that you once believed about yourself that's no longer true?

[B]

Yes. I thought, okay, I was so indifferent. I was so indifferent about kids. Like, I was like, I don't even. I would be a good mom, natural mom. Like, I just don't really care about children. And it turns out that it's. I'm. I'm a very natural mom, and I love it.

[A]

Yeah, I feel the same way. And I think also, can't believe, again, my daughter's 21. Like, can't believe I could have missed that because I was totally indifferent too. And I. Well, I live in the south. And so everybody has planned their 4.4.4 children. Like, you know, and I just never had.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I didn't have any of that. I didn't grow up with that plan.

[B]

And so what flipped the switch for you?

[A]

You know, what actually did? It's actually very interesting. I was probably eight or 10 years into my career, and I saw a woman, a designer, working as a mother in the way that I wanted to work. I saw the possibility. Yeah, it was like the first again, because I live in the South. I didn't know. I didn't know women that worked. I mean, I didn't see that, and I didn't see a light, you know, an example of a life that I wanted and I was able to. And it literally was. The next day I told my husband, I think I want to have a baby. And he's like, okay, but. But. But to see a. A creative working artist with children.

[B]

Yeah, that's incredible. And. And I love these, like, flexible, supportive men we have.

[A]

Okay, I know, I know.

[B]

That's what mine was like, too. He was like, okay, just one. I was like, okay, one.

[A]

I have one.

[B]

And then I had.

[A]

Oh, you had two.

[B]

Oh, you have. We had. Well, yeah, because I had this vision. I met her in my dreams, and my clairvoyant, who I really trust, told me that this daughter was coming from my maternal side and blah, blah. And I was like, I think we just have to try for her. I think she's coming to us. And he was. Yeah, he. Every time we have a hard day, he's like, I told you 1. I should have had one. But we have two yet. 2.

[A]

Jenny, I've heard from your team that working with you feels like working with a crystal ball because of the way that you understand women and what they'll want to wear next season. Where is that coming from?

[B]

I do. I don't know. It's just like, I was born with that. Thank God for that. Because it makes Jenny Bird. It made building this brand possible because it's a contemporary brand, and therefore it has to service the trends. I always just had it as just an innate gift, and I enjoy it. You know, I think what I do best, though, is I kind of beat. I beat the trends at their own game. Right, because you can't fall victim to them and just deliver them, because that's not what our women wants. We have sophisticated women that want to look very current and forward, but have pieces that will last a long time. So what I do is, like I said, I beat the trends at their own game, where I take the best of them, and then I interpret it into take the best of it and interpret into what it could mean in a more timeless expression so that that woman gets that service of looking updated, but has something also that, like, she will pass on and will look modern for years. Otherwise, if you don't do that, you end up with this redundant collections that everyone's spitting out that are too. That are trendoid, and that's in. And you don't have your own brand's point of view. So I think that. That the art in that is what the only thing as we scale this company now that I should be focused on doing, because it really is the best, the value that I bring. And like we all did at the beginning, you do every single role, and then you hire experts at what you don't do best. And so I'm trying to do only that and then our charitable work as well. But I think that is the art for me is translating as a contemporary brand, is doing that well, translating the zeitgeist into pieces that will service our community that way. And, you know, there's some contemporary brands that do that really well in apparel that I love to follow and bags like metier. You guys carry a few of these brands. Gabriella Hurst, like, I mean, I think guest in residence does a good job of that for knitwear. It's what I want to wear.

[A]

We carry all of them, so.

[B]

Oh, you carry all those. And me. And me and Emma is another one. Yeah, I can't wait to try that brand. I. It's been on my radar for so long, and after you interviewed her, I'm excited to try them.

[A]

She's awesome. How does your Canadian heritage play into what you do and who you are.

[B]

Oh, well, who I am. We tend to be too humble, for sure. I always say we need to brag more about our amazing accomplishments. It makes it harder to start a brand. I mean, I had to sell in the US the entire country of Canada does not spend as much as the city of LA on accessories. The entire country.

[A]

Well, it's a small country. I mean a huge. And a population small.

[B]

Yeah. And disposable income and percentage of wealthy households that have it to spend and everything is just so much less. So it may, you know, I pursued the brand's beginnings in wholesale in the US where the market was. It's 10 times the size the market there. So it just made sense. I would get, you know, at a department store here, they called Renfro, get an order for four pieces of a necklace and intermix. His first order, which they reordered two weeks later, was 100 pieces for that same necklace. You know, so it just, it was where I would if I wanted to make a living. It was south of the border. And so that. That's logistically tough because you're having to fly there and spend the money on. On doing trade shows and distribution in the US but it was how to do it.

[A]

Is there anything that I haven't asked that feels important?

[B]

Well, I think one thing to share to aspiring founders is just to remember your inner voice always knows. There's times when you think in terms of a piece of advice. There's lots of times when I've thought I need an outside expert or a senior person in the area to come in and help us. And in the end, you can take the knowledge, but you need to be the one to make a decision of how to act with that knowledge Only you know how to best steer your brand forward when you're building a special brand and not, you know, some corporate machine. And that's something to remind yourself of because you often feel like someone knows more than you and you need their knowledge or you need their decisions. You need their knowledge maybe, but not their decision.

[A]

Well, one of the things I read about you, you. You were suggesting to young entrepreneurs that they. I disagreed with this. I actually thought the opposite, but I've been considering it all night thinking about it. But you suggested that they. You share your dream with as many people as possible. Where I always felt like that was damaging. And I don't know if it's regional just where I'm from that, you know, anytime you would, I would say, I'm opening a store, people will be like, well that's going to fail or you know, like that sounds crazy. You'll do that for a couple of years. So I learned never to share my dreams. I mean, I, I, I manifest them personally and live them and all that, but I don't, I don't spread it around well.

[B]

I think there's a happy medium. I think you, you definitely don't want to do that with people that are going to give you that negative energy back. Yes. Right. But you do it in circles and with people that you know are, that can help you and even if it's going to be negative back from them or, you know, you need them and with people and in circles that you know would just like give you fuel to fly. Right. Like, I think the thing, when you're building something and you're around people that have not taken an alternative path, you, it is, it is very important that you build a community with people that believe in that path around you. And you have to, you have to build that. It's part of this building of this life around you while you build your new idea. So I would, I would say that my advice would be to share it for sure. Because it helps the universe deliver what you need to you. The more people who know about it. But, but be wise with, you know, like, I wasn't sharing my ideas with people that were scared for me and were projecting fear and that were projecting fear on me.

[A]

Well, and I think for me it was always, you know, it was people you didn't expect. You know, it would be like your mom that was like, oh, that sounds scary. And you're like, I don't need that from you. I need you to believe in me.

[B]

Yeah. I think if you know that you, that really will deflate your, your wings, then you be careful. More, more careful. Personally, for me, I had such a determination that, you know, I had that from my family and in the early days a lot of fear in their own projections. But you know, it sort of gave me the fuel. Like I knew that I was fiery, like I was going to build it out of spite basically to say that it is possible that drove me forward. So I think just knowing what you can safely expose yourself to, but getting yourself around people that believe in the possibilities of creating, being, you know, believe on living on that side of the fence in life, which I believe there's two sides. There's people that are creating and adding to culture and there's people that are just consuming. Yep. And you need to like, I was so excited to be and for whatever reason they're just, you know, maybe they're. It's fear based or, you know, they've just followed their path. But getting yourself immersed with people that are, that are excited about living on the adding to and the creating side of life is like the best, best advice.

[A]

Last question we always ask in rural Ontario. Did you have a prom and what did you wear?

[B]

Okay, I have a crazy prom story. I thought it was. Wasn't cool. I was like already choosing an alternative path. I guess I thought it wasn't cool. So did my boyfriend. So we decided to go skydiving instead. I asked our parents for the money and so instead of doing the dress in the suit and it just wasn't really like the, like our crew wasn't going at school. Like it wasn't like we were missing. It wasn't done really well at our high school anyway. So we spun for our parents into budget for skydiving.

[A]

And what was that like?

[B]

Well, he chickened out. I'm not even joking.

[A]

Really? You didn't marry him?

[B]

I did not marry him.

[A]

You definitely didn't.

[B]

We definitely broke up before university. I went, I went on my own. I was so into this idea and I couldn't believe that he dropped out of that.

[A]

He was just.

[B]

I mean, you have to. I had to let him. He was scared but. Or his parents didn't allow. I don't know what it was. I forget exactly why, but he bailed.

[A]

That's hilarious.

[B]

And I went, yeah. Was it cool?

[A]

I mean, did you do it again or. That was the only time.

[B]

Oh my God, I can't believe I did that. I remember the moment I did. I would never be able to do that now. I was much more comfortable with like putting myself in those positions at that age. Yeah, I think of that almost every time I'm on a plane and look up at that certain height that I did it on. And I did the, the line where you don't jump out with someone. You actually climb out onto the wing and you have an auto release so you have to let yourself go yourself. Yeah, I, yeah, I, I don't know how I did that.

[A]

I don't either, but I'm proud of it.

[B]

It was cool. But you don't need. I don't need to do that again.

[A]

That was the time. Um, thank you, Jenny Bird. This was excellent. Just really enjoyed being with you. Me too.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Love to have you come down here sometime.

[B]

I can't wait to get there. I'm. I can't wait to shop

[A]

and I'll come up and see you and we'll go to La Cubana.

[B]

That would be so nice. Thanks, Laura. This was a nice way to start the day.

[A]

Thank you. Likewise.