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Foreign.
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I'm Laura Vinroot Poole and this is what we wore. Jennifer Fisher is the founder of her namesake jewelry collection, Jennifer Fisher. Jennifer was a self proclaimed hustler and serial entrepreneur as a child and she still is today. Jennifer's recently released a cookbook Trust yout Gut, founded her media brand Maiden and is continuing to expand into other categories. Jennifer's such a dynamic and multifaceted woman that we can all learn from. I certainly did. I think we met with Irene Neuorth like a hundred years ago.
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A
I think that is true. 100 years ago. It feels like a hundred years ago.
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B
Yeah. I didn't realize you were from Santa Barbara.
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A
Oh, yeah, I grew up Montecito.
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B
What an incredible place to grow up.
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A
Well, it was, you know, I was sort of third generation there. My grandfather was a polo player and was kind of famous up there. He still has a tournament named after him. He was the guy who taught like Sylvester Stallone and. And Tommy Lee Jones and all those guys how to play polo. So he was sort of this iconic cowboy at the Cow at the Polo Fields in Montecito. And so my dad went to Montecito Union. I went to Montecito Union. We were there before it was rose wooded and Oprah and Ellen and everybody. You know, it was sort of before everything happened there. You know, the Miramar was a. A beach club.
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B
Were you a horse person too?
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A
My father made me get a horse. No, I was not especially, you know, I wanted to write English like my friends and my father would not allow me. My father was a cowboy and I could only ride Western and I was not interested in that. So I cared for the horse. We had a horse on our property. I loved the horse, but I didn't like to ride the horse.
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B
Is polo done on a Western saddle? No.
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A
No.
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B
Oh, but he still just was stuck on that?
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No, my grandfather's a cowboy. He wore a cowboy hat every day. My dad is into Western everything. And it was just like, you know, my. My grandfather was actually a silversmith and he would make rodeo buckles and bolo ties and money clips for all the guys in his spare time. So that's sort of like. My jewelry background is that I would watch my grandfather make jewelry when I was a kid.
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B
Wow.
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A
And so that was sort of, you know, but it was all around Western culture and, you know, wrote just very different than what I wanted to do. Like all of my friends in Monita that were writing English.
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B
Jennifer, are you an only child or did you have siblings?
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A
No, I have two older Brothers. And we literally could come from three different sets of parents. Like, we don't look alike.
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B
In California, that could be a possibility.
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A
Literally, I'm like, am I the milkman's kid? Like, but I'm. I'm exactly my father. I look like my dad. But we literally don't look alike. We have three completely separate personalities. I've got one brother that's very preppy. I've got one brother that rides around on ATVs on the weekends and has a mohawk. I mean, it's literally. I mean, we also grew up at three different times in our family, too. So, you know, I went to boarding school in Switzerland. They did not. You know, we've kind of had some interesting differences in our upbringing.
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B
I always think that little sisters of brothers always turn out to be really cool kids. People.
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A
Well, we're resilient because we're used to, you know, getting shoved into the dryer and, you know, Josh Brolin and my brother, you know, stuck me in the dryer when I was a kid. You know, things like that. Like.
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B
And did you grow up with your grandparents? Were they nearby?
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A
They were my grandmother, my grandfather, my. My paternal side, my father's. They were in Santa Barbara. So we around them all the time. You know, we'd always have Sunday breakfast with them. We'd be, you know, out doing, you know, things at the polo field. You know, it was just constant. And my mother's mother and father were divorced and lived in Los Angeles.
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B
What would your parents have described you as a kid? Oh, gosh.
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Well, I've always been a hustler. You know, I was the kid. My parents traveled a lot when I was younger, and I. By the time they would get back from their trips, my dad would go to Vegas a lot. He loved to gamble. And when they would come back, a lot of the times I would have started a business. So I started my first jewelry brand at about 5 years old called JJ Button Ears with my babysitter, where I was gluing buttons onto the front of, uh. You know, I loved going to the craft store, and I was gluing buttons onto the back of, you know, onto earring posts. And then we made little cards at Kinko's, and we would go and try to sell them in the stores, and everyone would feel bad for me and take a couple. So I was always doing. I was a serial entrepreneur from the time I was born. I mean, it was like I was picking flowers out of people's yards and selling them back to them. I was picking Avocados off my friend Amy's trees. And we were sitting on the corner selling them, you know, on the street, and tell. We made a deal with the guy that owned the Mexican restaurant to get him avocados every week. So we were just hustling in Montecito and.
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B
Tell me about your first impression of fashion. Sounds like I bet you're around some really stylish people, especially your grandfather.
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A
Yeah, I mean, my grandmother was actually really more of a style icon for me. I'll never forget my grandmother taking me to McDonald's and riding the little horses. They had those at the time. They had those little, like, seahorses outside. You could. You could rock on. And she had a leopard suit on. She was so chic. She was so cool. She was always into fashion. And I remember her, like, taking me there to be nice and, you know, kind of sitting there with me in her suit as I would, you know,
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B
play, like, a rodeo suit, like a nudie suit or. What was the California.
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No, it was like. It was a. It was. I think it was like old Dolce. It was something that was like. I don't know, like, something very. She was very into fashion. She was very cool, chic. And it was like. I think it was like a Jacquard or something. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't silk. It was something that had some texture to it, so it was beautiful. But. But really, my. My. My love of fashion came at a very young age. I never fit in in Santa Barbara. I always sort of felt like I needed to get out. I always felt like it was too sleepy for me. It was too slow. And I. My mom was kind enough to get me a subscription to Vogue magazine when I was young. And I literally wallpapered my walls with it. You know, there was, like, leaf gear and all that stuff. But there was also. I'm aging myself. I'm turning 55, and, like, to be.
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B
I'm your age, but, oh, perfect.
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And, you know, I would have all that in my wall. But then I would also have, like, you know, the covers of Vogue, all the editorial stories all over. So much so that when we sold the house to Jane Seymour, she asked to keep the Vogue wallpaper in the bedroom. So, like, I was so into fashion. I studied business marketing at usc. I thought that I wanted to be the publisher of Vogue magazine until I got my first internship at LA Style. And I would watch the racks of clothing go by, and I was like, this is. This is. I don't want to Be doing marketing numbers. I want to be over there. And luckily, I had a friend who worked at a production company called Propaganda Films. And it was at the time when, like, Michael Bay and all those guys were commercial directors. And one of the directors needed a wardrobe stylist. And my friend was. Was one of his assistants, and she was like, I've got a friend that's really into fashion. You should give her a shot. And he said, okay, kid, you effed this up. You're never gonna work this town again. And that was. I think it was like a paste picante commercial where I had. You know, it wasn't even like fashion. It was just like characters, but it was so much fun. And I became a wardrobe stylist, and I was a sty stylist for 10 years in Los Angeles.
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B
And were you good? I mean, knowing you and knowing your style? I think that you were. But did it connect immediately?
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A
It really did. I did some. I did some fashion styling for a stylist that would remain unnamed, who was terrible. And she made me hate fashion styling for editorial and for celebrity.
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B
Which part did you hate? Her?
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I hated her. She was so mean. She was so mean to me, Lara. I mean, you have no idea. It was. She was horrible to me.
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B
But the process of working with. With a celebrity wasn't what you hated?
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A
No, I did love that. And I've gotten to work with a lot of celebrities over the years. Working, commercial, selling. I also worked for Aaron Spelling for a bit, which was incredible. So I worked with him. I was the assistant costume designer on a show called Sunset beach, which was their daytime drama. And it was so much fun. And that's how I ended up meeting one of my boyfriends who was an actor, which is like a whole other story, but it's a good one. But I worked. It's so funny. I was at US Fashion Trust in Los Angeles a week ago, and Pamela Anderson was there with Tory Burch as Tori's date. And I had worked with Pamela on, like, a Bud Light commercial a million years ago. And so it's like, I've had lots and lots of different types of celebrities through the commercial world. I really loved commercials because I was able to have sets of different teams on different sets, and I was sort of managing them. And I would hit set, you know, to make sure the looks were set, and I would move around. And it really was, like, an amazing business to have all of these different teams working on different types of commercials. I mean, we did it all, like Amex. We did. I Mean, you name it, we kind of did it. And it was. It was. It was amazing. I loved commercial styling because you would make more money. Yeah, the hours were better, and it was just. It was. I loved working with advertising agencies and the creatives, and they were so. Which. It was just like a nice environment. I loved it.
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B
Did you understand what they wanted? I mean, I think it's such a diff. It's a different audience, I guess. I mean, was that hard to Completely.
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A
But it was always fun to come kind of push them a little bit and be like, you know, okay, instead of, like, just. Instead of like this brown sweater, why don't we try orange? And why don't we try this cut? You know, it was kind of always fun, and sometimes it worked, and sometimes it's khaki pants and a navy blue sweater. You know what I mean? It would just depend on what we were working on, but, you know, but it was always really fun when we got to do, you know, characters and, like, the, you know, certain things, like super bowl commercials were really fun. I mean, I'll never forget we did one for the Olympics. It was amazing. And it was like, you know, it was runners, and it was just. It was, you know, it was such an incredible experience, and it really prepared me to go into what I do now.
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B
Yeah. Tell me, what were the primary lessons?
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A
Oh, gosh. I would say leadership, multitasking. And I would say, you know, also kind of letting go of some control and letting people manage things for you is really, really important to not micromanage people.
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B
Yes. Try to remember it every day.
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A
It's so hard, but we still do it.
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B
Can we rewind a little bit? I want to hear about boarding school in Switzerland.
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A
So my father was. How should I put this? My father was on the COVID of a newspaper, and I was in high school, and there were some things going on legally for my father that was challenging for me going to high school. And so my parents said, maybe you should take a year and go to task this in Switzerland and come back, which is what I did. And it was. And by the time I got back, my father was not on the COVID of the newspaper any longer, and things were fine.
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B
And were you the only person from California at the school?
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A
You know, I had a friend of a friend who had gone to Tasis and highly recommended it, and she was still there. And so it was nice to sort of have someone from California that was there. But you're instantly. When you. When you're put into a situation like that where Everybody is from a different country. You know, it was like, a lot of people. It was a lot of, you know, expats. It was a lot of, you know, people from Saudi Arabia. It was a lot of Americans that were living overseas. It was a lot of Turks, it was a lot of Italians. It was a really amazing experience to, you know, some people were incredibly friendly and brought you in right away, and some people did not. But it sort of formed that, you know, it gets you out of that tiny. You know, there were still mean girls in Santa Barbara High, but, you know, getting into a different. I really believe I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't have that experience.
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B
I totally agree. I mean, I would think that it had to have been such a formative experience for what you do now.
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A
Oh, it was incredible. I mean, there was no. I mean, you would have to call in. You know, there are certain times where you'd have to work the phone booth so we could speak to our parents. And there was a banker who controlled how much cash we would get each week.
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B
I went to boarding school, too.
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A
I know. So, you know.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, so this one in particular, though, was a finishing school also. So we had to learn all of our table manners that we had to dress for dinner. And, you know, there was also check in after being out at night and, you know, in the science lab with the bright lights, you know, check if we've been drinking. And, you know, I got three letters in a warning and I almost got sent home. And it was. But it was the best time. And we would, we would sneak out and go to Milli Vanilli concerts in Milan. And, you know, we were right, right on the border. We were on Lake Como. Like, it doesn't get any better than that. I mean, it was incredible.
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B
Are you still in touch with anybody from that time?
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A
You know, I was in touch recently with one of my roommates because unfortunately, one of my other roommates had committed suicide and passed, which was so horrible. And so we actually, Recently I just was in contact with one of them, but I don't stay in contact with any of them because I really was only there for a year. Yeah, I wish that I, I wanted to come back and go to high school prom in Santa Barbara, which I really regret doing. What is wrong with you? Like, everyone's going to Kenya. And I was like, I've got to go home, you know, But I, I, I was ready to go back, and I did my year, and it was incredible. And I'll never Forget it. And I would never take it back.
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B
I know just from reading about you a little bit when you were in high school you were diagnosed with Hashimoto's.
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Correct.
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B
And tell me about that.
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A
So I had always had terrible skin problems. I had always had like, you know, irregular periods. And doctors would just throw me on different medications and different forms of birth control and different things to try to control what was going on with my body. And you know, it was really unfortunate. And you know, doctors really don't get much nutritional training.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Or endocrine training. So I, you know, being in Santa Barbara, I just going to like a regular internist. I wasn't told I needed to go to an endocrinologist. They just would put me on things to try to make me feel better. And it wasn't really until I moved to Los Angeles that I found another doctor that at least was helping me get onto the right medication. But it wasn't until I moved to New York City and I met my endocrinologist in New York City that had recommended dietary and nutritional changes to make myself feel better. Which is when I really started this whole process of eating anti inflammatory, cutting out gluten. But it wasn't really until I started my Salt business in 2017. I mean there's lots of layers to this of you know, I also went through chemotherapy when I was 30 because I live with a desmoid tumor. So I mean lots of different places we could take this conversation.
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B
I have celiac and I was diagnosed partway when I was 18 and then it wasn't celiac wasn't really a thing. It was like a weed allergy and then not until I was 45. But I'm a breast cancer survivor and I'm convinced it has something to do with all those years of inflammation.
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A
You know, I don't disagree with you. I think that my tumor is from, you know, it's my types of tumors can come from trauma or hormonal issues. But I do believe, and I do agree with you that I think a lot of these types of illnesses do go back to the root of gut issues and inflammation.
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B
Yeah, you're really ahead of your time in taking control of it yourself because there really is not a lot of support medically. Maybe better now, but definitely then in your 20s and 30s there was not
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A
any, I would think, you know, I started to eat. You know, I growing up in Santa Barbara, California there was, there was like two health food stores and they were like the crunchiest of the most granola and we were obsessed with these bran muffins that made what weighed 20 pounds. The sorbet that we thought was being healthy when it was made with cane sugar. You know, all these things that we would do, and the smoothies we would get that are, oh, it's orange. It's health, it's not health. And, you know, all those things that we thought we were doing right, you know. But my father was an avid gardener and always had large gardens on whatever property we. He also re. Did Spanish estates in Montecito. So we would move around sort of as he, like, would flip these houses and they would. He would always have a beautiful garden and would always kind of forage for that, and we would do that in the morning. So I was always into, you know, vegetables and fruits. And my father was also an avid griller. He was amazing barbecuer. And we socialized a lot and ate most of our meals, you know, outside around. My father was very into cooking tri tip. And he was, you know, was just like. And there's a tri tip grill, which is very, like California. Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara tri tip, which is the cut of the meat, which is specific. That is very popular there. But my father, we were always kind of cooking meal, you know, cooking things, but, you know, and that seemed healthy. But my father would be sneaking, like, Crisco into the vegetables, or my mom would give us, you know, you know, American cheese and Wonder bread to go with, like, our vegetable. So it was sort of that era of, you know, early 80s that, you know, there's still. There wasn't a lot of nutritional training for our parents. Yeah. So they, you know, and we still lived in a town that was, you know, flourished with, like, fresh produce and amazing, amazing, amazing foods. But we were still eating, you know, hostess, you know, donuts and things like that. So it was. It wasn't until I really started to self advocate for myself in my, I would say late 20s, early 30s is when I really started to, you know, I. I was. I was done with people telling me to go, oh, go to this doctor. He'll get you on this program. Go to. And then really, all they're doing is selling you supplements or their shakes or whatever they're selling you that is actually making you more inflicted.
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B
I think we went to the same doctor.
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A
Yeah, well, you know, wasting thousands of dollars going to these doctors that are. Excuse my French, but it's, you know, and then feeling worse. Yeah. And it wasn't until I really took it upon myself when I turned 50 and I read Will Cole Ketotarian that I. A light bulb went off inside my head and I was like, what am I doing? I'm not. I'm doing this, but I'm not really doing this. I'm. I'm eating gluten free. I'm still eating grain. Everything that I'm using is. I love condiments. Everything that I'm putting on my food has some form of cane sugar, seed oil or gum in it. And I really will. He wrote the introduction for my cookbook because we're now friends, but he really, like, he changed my life by just teaching me a few simple things that have exponentially changed my life.
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B
Will you talk a little bit about the tumor and then your fertility journey through that?
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A
Sure, sure. So I was diagnosed with the desmoid tumor when I was 30 years old. It's a soft tissue sarcoma that is on my left chest wall. It is not breast cancer, and it is a very, very rare sarcoma.
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B
And how did you find it?
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A
I was at a wedding, actually, at Tribeca Rooftop. One of my best friends was getting married. Actually, that's not true. I noticed about six months before, and I had called my. I actually had breast implants, put it in 1997. And about six, you know, six months after that, I was like, you know, there's a weird lump under my armpit. It's a little strange. And he said, oh, stop wearing racerback bras. And I went back again. I'm like, it's bugging me. He's like, it's fine. It'll go down. And then when I was at this wedding, a few days before my. My birthday, actually, I was in the. I had a strapless dress on and the lighting. I had changed my birth control pill until there was like a new hip pill that everyone was on that was like a higher dose estrogen. And so my OB had switched me to that and about, you know, three weeks earlier, and I had a strapless dress on, and I. You could visibly see a lump on my chest. And I was like, oh, my God, what is this? Yeah. And thankfully, my husband's father at the time was a doctor. Everyone thought it was breast cancer. I flew to Los Angeles. The doctor tried. He tried to do a needle biopsy on it. Was not able to extract anything. So they chose to do a surgical biopsy. And that was when they found out that it was a desmoid tumor, which is a soft.
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B
It's a soft tumor.
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A
It's a soft tissue sarcoma. That's very, very rare. And it acts sort of like an octopus, so it has tentacles and it grows into your muscles and around your bone. So it's incredibly difficult to resect it.
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B
And is it painful, Jennifer?
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A
Probably one of the most painful tumors in the world. I have a lifetime prescription to morphine if I need it. It's horrible. The doctor wanted to take out my pectoralis, major minor, my serratus and my collarbone in order to resect it, because that's, that's how wide you have to go on these. And people didn't really know a lot about desmoid tumors back then. People now know a lot more about them. And there are thankfully, medications that treat them. But at the time, I had to go through 12 rounds of chemotherapy for it. Well, first I was like, listen, let's not do this. Let's not do this surgery. And thankfully I got into a doctor at UCLA because of Kevin, who is now my husband, who's my boyfriend at the time. His father had a friend who was like dabbling in these soft tissue sarcomas. Cause they were becoming more apparent in women after childbirth. People were getting them in their uteruses and people were getting them after trauma, which is really interesting.
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B
They're estrogen fed.
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A
Well, they can either be from trauma or they can be estrogen fed. So we don't know exactly what mine was because I had both at the same time. On the onset of mine.
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B
Did you have to take tamoxifen?
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A
I was on tamoxifen for a year and a half.
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B
Wow, that's devastating just in itself, you know, I think they really. People underestimate how hard that is.
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A
Well prepared for menopause now.
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B
Yeah, exactly. Done it.
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A
I know the feels, all the feels. So every time I get a hot flash, I'm like, wait a minute, I know what that feels like.
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B
Well, and I am amazed, shocked and amazed that you this and then tamoxifen and then you were able to have two children. I mean, how that's a miracle beyond miracles, right? It is.
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A
Well, you know. Well, I had methotrexate as my chemotherapy. And the reason they use that is that it's supposed to, to, you know, sort of salvage your eggs. And I didn't have to go through any form of egg retrieval prior to chemotherapy. We talked about it, but my oncologist was pretty. I went through chemotherapy at Cedars Sinai and then also here at St. Vincent's I worked the entire time too. I had an amazing commercial stylist that helped me work in New York and Los Angeles. So I could visit Kevin, go through treatments on both coasts and get through it.
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B
And at this time, are you styling or your. Your jewelry?
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A
Style it.
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B
Styling.
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A
Styling. No, the jewelry didn't start until I had my sunshine. Wow.
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B
Okay.
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A
Styling. During. During. It saved me, really. Yes. I. On the days that I didn't feel well, it wasn't great. But on the days that I felt okay, to get my mind off of was really helpful, because the days that I didn't feel well, you really don't feel well. And, you know, you're flushing and you're doing all of these things. I mean, I. I can't drink Fiji water to this day. It's hard for me because that was the water I would use to flush. And so there's a specific flavor to it now that I don't really like because it brings me back. But anyways, so I. I went through chemo. My tumor shrunk. And when I wanted to have children, Kevin and I got married about six months or a year after I. I was like, it's about eight months, year after. And we wanted to have children. And my oncologist said, no, go. You can't have kids with this tumor. You're not.
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B
Because it'll pump up your estrogen.
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A
Correct.
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B
Or you won't even be able to conceive.
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A
I had never been pregnant before, so I didn't know. But it was more about the estrogen influx into your body from carrying a child. So we, you know, at the time, it was illegal in the state of New York. We were living in New York to have a surrogate carry for you, but it was. It was legal in New Jersey, Vermont, Florida, and California. And Kevin, my husband, grew up in Brentwood, and both of our sets of parents were still there and alive. So we decided to try out surrogacy, which is a whole other process, which is a lot of work. Yeah. And for those of you who don't know what it takes back then, this is. You know, my son is now 21, so this was. You know, this was a long time ago, but, you know, it's a very long process in order to find the surrogate. So we found an amazing surrogate, went through IVF. We did it in Beverly Hills with Dr. Suri, who was incredible. And I don't even know if she's still practicing. I wonder. And it worked the first time. And she got pregnant, but miscarried at 12 weeks. And, you know, it's a whole thing. She had a family of four. We had to bring the family down we take the family to Disneyland, and, you know, it's just like. It's a lot. And then. And then we went through it again, and she. We saw Heartbeat. We knew it was a boy. We named him Luke. And I went to Sacramento, which is where she lives to go, you know, for. At this point in. In the contract, you take them shopping for clothing, and it's sort of this real fun part. And I went out to do that, and there was no Heartbeat. So we. I had to stay with her as she went through dnc, and then she decided to not continue with us because she was concerned that maybe, you know, the eggs were not. Not good from the chemo. I don't blame her. So then I went through. I went through IVF here. Unsuccessfully. None of my eggs. I mean, I also had pcos, too. Wow. Growing up. And so none of my eggs had matched up. So the doctor was like, listen, I. I think it's time for you guys to get an egg donor or adoption. And it was really challenging for Kevin and I in our relationship.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And you were 30 at this point. I was now 32.
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B
Yeah. So it wasn't.
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A
I was 33.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So the same company and legal agency that supplied surrogates also supplied egg donors. And so we were looking at files of girls, and my husband's family is not on the super tall side, but mine is. And Kevin was like, pick the volleyball player. So. And then I got pregnant after all that ivf. You know, everyone knows you're kind of fertile.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so then I got pregnant, and that was my son's shame.
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B
Wow.
- [25:00]
A
And I said. I called my oncologist. I said, let's take it. You know, I obviously can't have an MRI to monitor what's going on through the pregnancy, but we can monitor it via ultrasound, which is what we did. And my tumor did not grow while I was pregnant. They treated this a high risk pregnancy, which it ended up not being. My tumor actually shrunk. I'm now a case study at Emory University of women of childbearing age that have gone on to have children after having a desmoid tumor. Wow.
- [25:26]
B
And what do they think it was? I mean, the fact that it shrunk with more estrogen, even though it was considered estrogen fed.
- [25:34]
A
Right. I think it's from trauma from my surgery, but there's no way of knowing. It could be a combination, like. No one knows. No one knows. And it is what it is. I live with it. It's my friend. I'm bigger than it I control it. You know, it's all about. It's all about kind of mental, you know, how it is when you are, you know, going through something. I think mental toughness is. Is. Is really the most powerful skill. And, you know, that's. I. I named my cookbook trust your gut. Like, I think us as females, our female intuition, I think our, you know, mind, body power, all of that is incredibly powerful. I was actually speaking to a colleague of mine who was just diagnosed with breast cancer, and she was going through it, and I. And I, you know, was telling her, you know, it about, I'm bigger than this. I'm going to be okay. That's the best thing that you can do, is the power of positive thinking. I'm. I'm a big advocate for that.
- [26:25]
B
Totally agree. When your son was born, that was when the jewelry collection was born.
- [26:30]
A
Yes. So Shane was born. I was styling, and I wanted something. I had collected charms my entire life. My parents traveled, as I said, a lot. My parents would always bring me back a charm from wherever they went. It was sort of like my mom's thing. She would bring me a charm. So I literally have this charm bracelet that has, you know, every country and everything on it. But they were all. They were all silver, and I. But I always loved them. And so I started collecting some gold charms, you know, in my 20s, and some vintage ones and just some things that represented, you know, living in New York, representing California. You know, it's just some really cool, interesting ones that I would find along the way that were gold. And I wanted a charm necklace to represent change. Well, first of all, people were giving me gifts to represent him. I was like, this is not for me. Like, little things. I'm like, no, no, I want something heavy. I want a heavy gold chain, and I want a tag that says his full name because of what I went through to have him. And at the time, no one was making anything like that. So I literally, being resourceful and being a stylist, I went up to 47th Street, I knocked on doors, and I was like, well, someone make this dog tag for me. I just want to wear a dog tag. I want it super simple, I want it clean, and I want my son's name on it. And finally someone said yes. And I sourced a beautiful long gold Italian chain at the time, and I wore it on set. And it was like, it was a long 24 inch. No one was really wearing jewelry like that.
- [27:49]
B
Yeah.
- [27:49]
A
And I would wear it on set, and it had his name, and it was an instant conversation piece. You know, everybody wanted to know what did it say? What did it stand for? And then the moment I would tell them, they would say, oh, my gosh, my wife would love that or my sister would love that. But can you make this shape? And can you make this. And, you know, I was friends with Uma Thurman's hairstylist, Ryan Trigstad, and Ryan was doing Uma's hair, and she wanted one. So I made her a charm necklace. And she got it the day she shot a Glamour magazine cover, and she wore it on the COVID of Glamour.
- [28:19]
B
So that was it. I mean, you were off and running.
- [28:21]
A
It was sort of like, yeah, it was interesting. It sort of put me on the map at the time. You know, it was when Us magazine and, you know, in Touch and all, you know, all those magazines were kind of, you know, the magazines that everyone really was gravitating towards if it wasn't a fashion magazine. And so I started getting a lot of stories being like a celebrity mom jeweler, you know, because I made Nicole Kidman's bridesmaids gifts and I made, you know, one for, back in the day, Ashlee Simpson. And, you know, it was like, it was all of those things back in the day, and it started to kind of snowball.
- [28:48]
B
And so were you incorporated at that point? Was it called Jennifer Fisher? Like, was it a thing?
- [28:53]
A
Yes. Wow. I was calling it Jennifer Fisher, and I, you know, I started to do some trunk shows and friends and family were buying it, and it sort of started. And then one day, I was on one night, I was on set, and it was a late night shooting, and it was like 1130 in the morning. I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm done. I've got a. I've got a child at home. You know, I don't want to do this. And it was before I found out that I was pregnant with Drew. So my. Who's my daughter? And one day there, you know, Kevin walks into our apartment. We lived on Green street in soho. And there were, you know, invoices all over our bed. And he said, jen, it's time to. This is a business. It's time to quit styling, and this is a business. And that's when I started a website selling direct to consumer customizable jewelry. Before anyone was really doing it, I
- [29:35]
B
was gonna say, you had to have been the one of the first people doing it.
- [29:37]
A
Yeah. And.
- [29:38]
B
And was it successful from. From the get go?
- [29:41]
A
Well, it was successful in Sales. It was successful in. In the world of jewelry and people instantly taking orders and buying them and, you know, sending them to moms. But for me, I wanted to be on the COVID of Vogue magazine. And all of my friends at the magazine's like, jen, this isn't really cover jewelry, you know, And I, you know, I was making it. Making it for years, and then, you know, a few years into it, I was like this. I gotta. I gotta. I gotta. I've gotta do editorial jewelry.
- [30:08]
B
The charms were. It was fine jewelry, right?
- [30:10]
A
Yes.
- [30:10]
B
And they ranged from 3,000 to 10,000.
- [30:13]
A
You know, it would really depend on the things, you know, we started making smaller charms. For some people that, you know, the
- [30:18]
B
price of gold is a little less than.
- [30:20]
A
Oh, my God.
- [30:21]
B
I can't even.
- [30:22]
A
I can't even pricing exercise of like, of the entire collection because my pieces are heavy.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah.
- [30:28]
A
So the first piece I made, to your point, was fine jewelry. I made it for Town and Country. And it was a beautiful cuff that had organic sort of seed beads on it. It was really gorgeous. And they gave me a big story on it. And. But it cost, you know, it cost about $10,000 to make just for the cost of the gold itself. And I was sort of like, there's gotta be a better way to do this. And I was like, let's try it in brass and plate it in gold. And this was like, I wasn't selling wholesale. I wasn't doing anything. This is all direct to consumer. I really wasn't trying to get into wholesale. And I started doing it, and instantly from stylists and people using it, pulling it, I started getting magazine covers.
- [31:07]
B
Wow.
- [31:08]
A
And it started to really kind of snowball. I was like, oh, my gosh, I can be more artistic in this outlet too, because it was, you know, it was a little more, you know, editorial and statement. And at the time when I first started, I was a little more, I don't know, it was a little more gothish. And it was like, you know, there's spikes and bones and skulls and things like that. And, you know, the jewelry sort of evolved as my style has sort of changed too. But it was working. And Daniela Vitali and Mark Lee from Barney showed up at my studio in soho. And they were like, we need you. We need you before someone else gets you. And so that's when I started selling to Barneys. They gave me, like. I mean, I had this huge jewelry section. It was in co op because it
- [31:46]
B
was fashion jewelry, because it was vermeil. Right. Because that was. I Think that was their first fashion jewelry brand that I could think of. Right.
- [31:53]
A
I mean, they gave us so much real estate. It was incredible. I rip Barneys. I miss them so much. It was, it was amazing, but it was great. And we already sort of worked. You know, we were there, we were their customer. So it really, really worked, especially on that floor. And we just sort of evolved. And over time it just, you know, it grew and it grew and it grew. And so then it became, you know, fine fashion. And so now and then over time, it sort of is like change. And so that's where this year, you know, we celebrated our 20 year anniversary of the brand. I really want to get back to more of the fine jewelry. So we're, we're bringing back styles, you know, in new ways in 18 karat because historically the brand was mainly a 14 karat gold brand. But we would always offer customizable pieces in 18 karat and white, rose and yellow. But really it was always 14 karat first because, you know, it was just sort of more affordable and. But I really. We want to tap into that 18 karat client now, which has been really interesting and really cool to see.
- [32:47]
B
One thing I think is, is really interesting about you is how much you listen to your client. I mean, I think you're, you're unusual in that you really do transform. I mean, you've, you're open to change and I think that's rare. And I think it's also why you're so successful. But why do you think that? Why do you think you were so good at that? Was it because you were one of the first people to have the website?
- [33:10]
A
No, I think it's because I'm a consumer. I follow fashion. I follow what I see what's coming down the Runway, I see what people are going to be wearing. You know, we're larger now, so it's hard to be as nimble, you know, because we do work over a year out. But sometimes you're able to slide things in. But, you know, I am a consumer. I am buying those clothes. I am, I am wearing those bags and shoes. I know what's coming and I want to make sure that I'm catering to that. Because if I'm buying something, I want to make sure that I have the right necklace, the right ring, you know, the right piece to wear with that for different times of the year and different occasions.
- [33:45]
B
And I think it also from your styling, don't you think? Just understanding what things need.
- [33:50]
A
I think that's partially it as well. And I think less is more. And I think there are times to have those statement pieces that I'm a businesswoman, you know, I understand that jewelry sort of comes last unless it comes first. So, you know, unless it's something that you are, you are clearly investing in it, or it is a gift or it is something that, you know, you are adding to your personal collection that you are planning for jewelry. A lot of the times, especially obviously fashion jewelry is last minute. So it sort of comes last. It comes last for stylists, it comes last for consumers. You know, you know, what shoes you're going to wear before, what normally, what necklace. Sometimes people plan things around my pieces because some of them are so large. But I know that jewelry comes sort of last. And I always want to make sure that they have something and I have something that they can, that they can buy and wear for that, but also wear again and again and again. You know, there's certain pieces that I make that are very statement, you know, like my snake chokers or the, you know, large, you know, large knot pieces that are bones and things like that that we sort of have brought back that we did years ago. But things like this, like this chain, you know, it can be worn multiple ways. You can take this off and you can wrap it, it can wear it down your back. You know, it's these things that also people can wear different ways and wear it one week and wear it the next week a different way, and no one's going to notice it's the same necklace. Yeah. You know, consumers, especially in this, you know, where we are in the economy too, you know, but always I think people are sort of conscious of, you know, that's why I've never gone so heavy into gemstones. I'm also just not a huge color stone person. But we are now going into it because I'm listening to my customers and they're requesting it.
- [35:25]
B
That's the other thing I think is interesting. And from. I know Barney's trunk shows were so important and you met the client so intimately, but then you also opened a store.
- [35:36]
A
So what we did though, first, so we had our office on fifth Avenue and it was on the second floor. And it was a. At the time, we outgrew it pretty quickly. But at the time we had space to create like a little VIP atelier, which is what we did. And it was so cool because we're able to test the retail concept prior to actually having a ground floor brick and mortar and making that investment. And what we noticed was everybody Wanted to come upstairs and shop. So first it was only open during the week, and then we started opening on the weekends, which was crazy because it was our offices. But we. We set up this really very cool looking little atelier. And it was beautiful, and it was private, and it was nice because, you know, some celebrities would come in and shop and they were. They weren't bothered by other people. And it really was like this great. I. I kind of honestly miss it. But so we were able to test the retail concept before actually making that investment. And what's interesting is that when so we went through Covid, the jewelry brand kind of exploded during COVID I have
- [36:32]
B
a theory on why, but you tell me why you think it did.
- [36:35]
A
Look at what we're sitting in right now.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah, right. Because this is what you see.
- [36:39]
A
This is all you see.
- [36:40]
B
Okay. Yes, agreed. But I think the biggest thing is you. I mean, I think you are so compelling, and I think you on social media and you showing people how to wear things, I think that for me, that was so powerful. And I think that really, that was the pandemic.
- [36:54]
A
Thank you. First of all. But, you know, I. I think it's a combination of things. You know, it really was when. When Covid hit, I had launched, I did a collaboration with CB2, and we were literally doing the press tour for it, and people were starting to not shake hands. I mean, it came out on February 27th.
- [37:12]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
A
And I was like, oh, my God. And we're in Dallas and people are not shaking hands. We fly to LA and like, we're like, oh, my God, we're not gonna be able to get home. And flew home. CB2 launches, and it was quiet. And then suddenly the sales started coming in like crazy, like bananas, like insane. Not only for my CB2 collection, because everyone was stuck at home and wanted to fix their houses up. And everything that I did was very neutral. You know, like these lamps. Like, the marble was all black or white, and, you know, everything was very neutral. And it was very easy to incorporate into your home. And so everybody suddenly was, like, redoing their homes. And, you know, it sold out very quickly. The first one, we ended up doing two more because it was so successful. But that. But the jewelry brand itself was kind of interesting. Like, suddenly it was like, yeah, and I'm proud that we didn't furlough one employee during COVID but I sort of. Now I'm like, oh, we should have. We had way too many employees. You know how it is. But we. We set up like an Underground railroad, where employees that lived in Brooklyn. Brooklyn employees that lived in. In New Jersey or uptown or we could. We would drive around, my husband and I, to make sure that we stayed in business and that the girls that worked in fashion and, you know, the plating, they could get the pieces to get that out, to get it plated. And the girls that worked in fine get the fine pieces to and from the vendor. And I was shipping everything because we acted as a warehouse, because we held the goods, so we were allowed to do it. Wow. So I would go in every day, and I would turn on Justin Bieber, and I would have my workout clothes on, and I literally would box, pull, pick, pack, and ship everything for. I mean, it was insane. It was salt, it was jewelry. And, you know, if FedEx didn't show up or UPS, I would take the cart and I would go, and it was like. It was wild.
- [39:04]
B
And tell me about creating the salts. And did you notice people were buying jewelry and salts at the same time?
- [39:09]
A
Well, it's a very interesting fact that about 6% of people that buy salt go on to buy jewelry. So it's an incredible marketing tool and a low customer acquisition costs for the brand, which is incredible. Yeah. But the salt came out of no marketing. No. You know, most of the stuff. Everything that I do, I'm kind of like, I just. Where is this? I don't see this. I. Let's make this. You know, that's like, what happened with the salt. So my endocrinologist was said to me at the time, I want you eating more protein in the morning. And I said, okay. I. And I love eggs. And I said, so I went out to every specialty grocery store to see what I could put on my eggs as, like, a seasoning that wasn't, you know, a chopped vegetable that you put into it or, like, a condiment or a hot sauce. And I was looking for, like. Like a groovy salt. And nothing existed. It was like, barbecue rubs or potpourri. That was it.
- [39:51]
B
Yeah.
- [39:52]
A
And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna put a little concoction of, like, all the things that I love. And it was dill, cilantro, crushed red, chili pepper flakes, black pepper, kosher salt. I was just like, a few things. And. And I. My father in California would always ship me boxes of his lemons and avocado. It was so. I mean, so cute. My mom still does, which is so cute. My father has passed. He passed about three years ago. And I would always Grate the lemon rind from and zest it so I wouldn't waste the lemon. And I would dry it, and I would use it in recipes. And I'd always cooked. My mom sent me to cooking class at Montecito Union in fifth and fifth grade, and my art teacher was our cooking instructor. And that's where I learned all of my basics of cooking, which I still have. One page of my cookbook is all of her recipes with her handwriting page.
- [40:38]
B
I'll look at it. I have it right here.
- [40:39]
A
So I would start putting it on a food. And I was making my, you know, my NYC LA Chop salad for Kevin, because that was his favorite. And he's like, what salt is this? I'm like, it's that salt on the side of the stove. And one day, as one did, being really annoying on Instagram, I put my egg avocado toast up on Instagram because that was what everyone was doing. I was like, I'll do it. And I put a poached egg on there with avocado and my salt. And people went nuts. People were nuts. It was like before DMs. And I always say this story. I was like, more people ask about that. What was on what. What seasoning was on my eggs, what hoops Rihanna had on from the photo before. Like, it's literally like, that's awesome. Well, because when.
- [41:14]
B
Think about it.
- [41:15]
A
What do we do every day? Three times a day? Normally, some people now two times a day because they've been fasting. But, you know, we eat.
- [41:22]
B
Yeah.
- [41:22]
A
You know, we put on our jewelry once and we take it off. So it's like. It's sort of like you're thinking about food more than you're thinking about jewelry. So it's kind of interesting.
- [41:30]
B
But you are so compelling and so charming and warm and welcoming in your cooking when you cooked.
- [41:37]
A
And that.
- [41:37]
B
That was a whole different thing, too. And you added. It was on the jewelry website, wasn't it? Or was on your personal. I guess it was.
- [41:43]
A
I love that you noticed that. So it was. And. And we had our recipes on there for a very long time. And I would do these one off recipes, and then people would be, like, messaging me, like, can, what's the recipe? What? What is that recipe? And I was like, oh, God. Oh, my God. Every day. And do you have that recipe? And that one's on the website. Do you have that one you made last week? And it was like, oh, my God, I can't do this anymore. This is insane. And. But it was so Much fun to do. And, like, that literally, like, I think what. What it did is it humanized me.
- [42:08]
B
Yeah.
- [42:09]
A
Going through Covid and. And showing people that I'm a mom. I cook, I do my dishes. I'm just like everybody else. Like, you know, maybe I'm a jewelry designer that makes some nice jewelry, but, like, at the end of the day, I'm just like everybody else. I walk my dog, you know, And I think. I think that that's, you know, not a lot of designers show that. They'll show, like, you know, that they're flying on their private planes or they're doing all this stuff. There rarely is anyone showing, like, how to chop an onion, you know, And I think that. That, you know, I. And people. People want to see real. Real stuff that they need to do, you know? And so I think that that's. That's sort of. But that's also just who I am. Like, I'm not going to show you my Birkin. I don't have one. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, am I 25 Birkins or whatever? Like, it's just. I like the row. You know, I'm like, that's not gonna. That's not clickbait for TikTok or Instagram. You know what I mean?
- [43:01]
B
So how soon after did you make the cookbook?
- [43:03]
A
So the cookbook came. See, I. I shot it. It came out in October. We literally took a year to do. Took a little bit of time to do the cookbook, I mean, but it literally was like, I've got to do it. And what's so cool is my editor. Well, first my agent was like, okay, you're doing this book. And I was like, okay. And my editor, I get on the call with her, and she goes, check out my hoops. And I was like, you're the one. That's it. We're done. So Holly and Abrams. So Abrams was amazing to work with, and I shot the cookbook. I. Fun, interesting. Kind of a weird fact, but I really like to try to do things that are meaningful. And so I hired Quentin Bacon as my photographer, who's Ina Garten's photographer. Because Ina's cookbooks are sort of were my fundamentals in the very beginning, you know, and then I evolved into, like, Martha and everyone else. And Martha gave me a quote for the book, and I love Martha, but it just. It came out of, like, the need to do it. And it's only 100 recipes. We're already working on the second one.
- [44:06]
B
Wow.
- [44:07]
A
Because People are really pissed that some of the recipes aren't in it.
- [44:10]
B
So have you been amazed at how this part of the. I guess business has leapt?
- [44:15]
A
It's really interesting. You know, I now have made in which is my new media and my new brand which is ma e g y n so I'm a May 1st birthday. I kept my maiden name when I got married and it's for like the den of all of my people. And so that's what we're putting the food content now because it was kind of weird to have recipes on a jewelry website and we needed to kind of separate the jewelry brand from the person.
- [44:37]
B
Yeah.
- [44:37]
A
You know, so there's the jewelry brand now and then there's me over here being myself in Maiden and Jennifer Fisher, my personal Instagram too, which is like where I do all my clothes and stuff, but which has turned into a whole other thing too. And I think that's from being a stylist too, which is really interesting to see.
- [44:54]
B
You also took investment after being self funded for a really long time and tell me what that's been like.
- [45:00]
A
That's been great. It's opened up a lot of. It's opened up a lot of resources that I didn't have if I didn't do it, you know, I wanted to do more stores. I wanted to. You set up the infrastructure. You know, we were like a mom and pop candy store.
- [45:13]
B
Yeah.
- [45:14]
A
It was like, it was like, you know, the money's under the mattress. So it's like it was time to put systems in place and to really grow up. Because I, I intend on making this a much larger jewelry brand and I wanted to make sure that I brought in strategic partners for that. And that's why I did it as sort of a strategic joint venture to do it so we can use resources. But I'm still, it's still my business. So it's really, it's been really challenging because you go from not having that structure to trying to put the structure in without. Without taking away what the brand was, is and stands for. Which is why I'm so vocal and why I'm in that office every day and why I am, you know, I am, I'm on the ground.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah.
- [46:01]
A
Literally like making sure like because you know something, there was something in a store that I noticed, you know, after we got robbed. I'm like, well, we need to change that. I didn't realize that was going on and so I'm still in it and all of those things. But it's been really Fun to be able to grow and to, you know, to do things that we weren't able to do before. I didn't have, you know, specific manufacturing capabilities to do the things that we're doing now in the fashion, jewelry. You know, it's so, you know, the hinges that we're doing and now the proprietary clasps and the things that we're doing. And I'm launching men's in October. It's been really great.
- [46:31]
B
I. I think you're really unusual in that you allow yourself to be open to moving, you know, to kind of changing.
- [46:42]
A
You have to.
- [46:43]
B
Yeah.
- [46:43]
A
If you don't evolve, you know, what do you. What. What are you gonna do? Yeah. And also, I always.
- [46:49]
B
I.
- [46:49]
A
And all of this evolution into your point of, like, you know, where we've gone into, like, the food space and, like, doing the things that I'm kind of doing differently than other jewelry designers. You know, I always say I'm not going to be the jewelry designer that makes, you know, handbags or shoes, because it's funny, you know, you. I did the Vogue CFT Fashion Fund in 2012, and, like, after you do something like that, you're, like, rushing Vogue magazine, and then people sort of put you in this box of, like, what accessories designers used to do.
- [47:14]
B
Yeah.
- [47:14]
A
And I've sort of always gone against that, which has been, you know, positive and negative. You know, it's like you're working against the grain a little bit, and so
- [47:23]
B
nobody knows where to put you. Yeah.
- [47:25]
A
You're respected for it in many ways, but then again, also, you're kind of like, they're like, why aren't you doing that? You know, and it's like, it's so. So I've also learned, like, you know, I'm 50. I don't care.
- [47:33]
B
Yeah.
- [47:33]
A
And so this is. This is me. I've got one shot here as me and as, you know, in this body, having this brand. And so I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm not going to do what people expect me to do. And that has really worked. And that's when the really, the brand
- [47:48]
B
started to shift, when it was really you. I mean, you're so. Again, you're so charming. You're so warm. People want to be around you.
- [47:55]
A
I'm fun.
- [47:56]
B
I know you are. You really are.
- [47:58]
A
I like to have a margarita. We like to.
- [48:00]
B
I like to have a good time.
- [48:01]
A
Like, you know, like I said, you know, after I. I. But to your point, what do I do when I wake up? I didn't answer your question. I put on my red light helmet because you as a Hashi girl, understand what it's like to not have hair.
- [48:14]
B
Right.
- [48:15]
A
So I've had on the, I've been on this hair growth journey for years. I had platinum blonde short hair kind of coming out of COVID It was, I cut my hair and it was just short and platinum blonde. And then I, I've been on this hair journey and so I, I put on my red light helmet and my husband brings me coffee and plays the Star wars theme song in the morning or my alkalized green juice. I, I like to sit in bed and I like to finish my first cup of coffee before I get out of bed. It's sort of like that's my time. And yeah, I am on Instagram because I answer everyone personally.
- [48:52]
B
Yeah.
- [48:52]
A
I don't use AI. I don't use an assistant. I really believe in answering people now on my own. I mean, that might change eventually because it's getting to be a lot. But I really believe that that's how you build your community and your business is, you know, if I, I get more DMs, people saying no one else answers me. Yeah. And I, I appreciate. Respect that too, because I'll, I'll reach out to people like that. Don't answer me. So I, I understand what it feels like and it doesn't feel good.
- [49:23]
B
Yeah.
- [49:23]
A
You know, so I, I respect how, you know, if people care enough to message me and to follow me. You should respect those people for their time and energy and the fact that they also are probably a customer and buying your product or might need some help. Like I, like I said, I have two older brothers. I never had a big sister, so I kind of had to figure out a lot of stuff on my own. And I really enjoy this community of people that are inquisitive and want to learn and are. And are going through something that are similar. That's similar to what I went through alone.
- [49:55]
B
Yep. And want to be on the journey with you. I love that. Yeah. If we were to talk in 10 years, where would you, what would you want to say about the Jennifer Fisher brand? Like, where do you want it to be?
- [50:05]
A
I'd like to have some goats. You know, I expect us to be. Become much larger very soon. And, you know, we're evolving into other categories, which is really, really exciting. And I don't like to answer that question because it always changes.
- [50:19]
B
Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think. And you're open to it every time.
- [50:22]
A
I've answered that question. It's like, it's not right. So I, you know, I'd like to have a couple goats or, you know, I really would like to have, you know, I live in a beautiful loft here in New York City, but I'd like to have a roof garden. I still want to live in New York City, but I'd like to bring a little bit of that Santa Barbara to New York.
- [50:38]
B
I love that.
- [50:39]
A
I plan on staying here. Both my kids are out of the house. I'm an empty nester. And so it's time to really take this brand and take it to the next level. I really wanted to be home to parent my kids. And now that they're gone, it's time, love.
- [50:50]
B
Most important question. When you came back from Switzerland to go to the prom senior year, what did you wear to the prom in Santa Barbara?
- [50:59]
A
That is so interesting that you just asked me that question. So I really wanted to. So I had two. I had two different looks. One. So my father always taught me a very strong work ethic. And when I was younger, I wanted. I. There was. We would drive to the Beverly center and there was this one store on the Beverly center that always had really amazing high designer clothing. And I always wanted, you know, something different and something cool. And I. It was, it was comme des garcons. So I mean, I love it as an 18 year old. And then I. But then I also had a dress for another party that was Betsey Johnson because I wanted this crazy black tulle, like bridal gown and it was amazing. I. I think my mom still have.
- [51:47]
B
I was gonna say, does your mom still have them? My mom still has mine.
- [51:50]
A
I think my mom still has it in storage.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah.
- [51:52]
A
Yeah. My mom has a lot of amazing, like old Armani and Gucci things from like trips and stuff.
- [51:57]
B
I hope she has some of your grandmother's stuff.
- [51:58]
A
She does. She has some of it. Yeah.
- [52:00]
B
I loved being with you. Thank you for sharing with us. I really, really enjoyed it.
- [52:05]
A
Thank you for having me. That was so much fun.
- [52:07]
B
Thanks so much.