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- [00:05]
A
I'm Laura Vinroot Poole and this is what we wore. Stephanie Suberville is the designer and co founder of Heirloom. Originally from Monterrey, Mexico, Stephanie made her home in New York City when she attended Parsons School of Design. Stephanie created the collection for what she calls the hole in herself rather than a hole in the market. Heirloom has allowed her to share both sides of herself, her vision as a designer living in New York, and her Mexican heritage through collaborating with Mexican artisans. We've never met and I was trying to think about how I was introduced to the collection and I think it's funny. I collect rebozos.
- [00:46]
B
Oh, you do?
- [00:47]
A
I do. And I didn't have a white one and I saw your white ones and the quality of your rebozos were some of the best I've ever experienced. And I love mine.
- [01:01]
B
Right. I mean that's so, that's so funny. We actually, we launched. I mean the idea from doing the rebosos was part of the brand from the start, but it was like a much more difficult journey than I thought. But it is one of our best best selling items. We have like an ongoing wait list just because I was on it. It takes so long to make. It takes so long to make each one. But yeah.
- [01:28]
A
Is it the same manufacturer, same weaver, I guess, or has that changed?
- [01:33]
B
Since we launched, we've been working with Arturo Estrada, who he's an artisan but he's also the head of the school. So in Santa Maria del Rio where the silk rebosos are made, he. There's like a school that he actually went to when he was a child and he is now the head of it. So he teaches the craft and so some it. He works on our rebozos, but he also is working with some students and other people. Like it's a collective that were built down there, but he sort of manages the whole thing.
- [02:07]
A
It's an interesting conversation. I had a conversation with a shoe designer yesterday and talking about Italy and her factory that she works with. The person that she who makes her Shoes is 88 years old and she's talking about, you know, his son helps, but he's not that interested in it. And then we also work, you know, with Sadat at the Gem palace in Jaipur and also with Yassir, the embroidered shawls. It's like this, you know, these crafts that are going away and I guess because Stephanie, they were traditionally taught fine father to son and now communities have had to go outside of their families to train. And is that so is Arturo Is. Is the school. I mean, tell me about that.
- [02:50]
B
So like, revosos have been part of Mexican culture for. Since I always said before Mexico was a country. But even in the. There's like a. It's a cool history. They sort of, you know, started just as a garment that has that start as a functional garment to carry things. Then in Santa Maria del Rio, they start making them out of silk. So in the south of Mexico, they're usually made out of cotton and they're more functional. Whereas, like the rebosos in Santa Maria del Rio have always been for special occasions because they're made out of silk. And even in the Mexican revolution, the female fighters, the adelitas, used to wear them as a symbol of Mexican pride.
- [03:33]
A
What color were those?
- [03:34]
B
I think colorful stripe, like all kinds. Sometimes they have like a ikari look to them. Yeah, the rebosos that are plain, like the white ones we make are usually actually for like your wedding. And then when I started working with Arturo, he's like, oh, so you want the bride ones? I'm like, just white. And he keeps calling them and then he calls the black ones the morning ones. It's like when you're in mourning. But, but I think for, you know, I'm a elder millennial. I think for my generation, people think of them as almost like a costume. Like, oh, I'm dressing up as Frida Kahlo for Halloween. Like, people are not wearing them anymore. They don't necessarily care about it because it's seen as. It's been become this sort of thing where like your grandma maybe wore it. And for me, like, I have so many pictures of my grandmother, my mom's mom wearing them. I think my mom still wears them, but it's not common. She. I mean, at least in, in the big cities, right. Because I grew up in Monterrey or Mexico City, people are not wearing them anymore. My mom keeps hers in a drawer because they're. The silk ones are becoming harder and harder to find. And actually that was part of why we wanted to do them because the artisans that used to make them in silk are now using articella, which is like a synthetic yarn. And it's so sad that it takes them three months to make one and they're using such a cheap, low quality fiber. But when I met Arturo, I knew there's like so many articles about him, he's in books. I reached out to him and he, you know, his parents didn't make rebosos. This isn't like a family thing for him. I think he told me that his parents put him in the school because it was like an honor because they needed him to help make money. When he was little, they didn't grow up with very much, and so they put him in the school for him to become an artisan. And it was. He always says it was like an honor for his parents for their son to become an artisan. So he went to the school since he was 9 years old, and he's now in his mid-40s to late mid to late 40s. And he's been making rebosos his whole life. This is what he does. And he grew up in the school, and he now teaches the craft, so he works with the whole community. And when I reached out to him, he had been working with this, like, horrible yarns for the last four years. I guess now it's been many years since we, like, first started talking, but he. He told me that the, you know, all the silk in the world comes from China or from Brazil.
- [06:14]
A
Yeah.
- [06:15]
B
So there's a little bit of silk that traditionally in Mexico, like, the artisans were using, but it. For the rebosos, they actually relied on the government to supply them with silk, and they didn't know where it came from. And so he. All those funds were cut off four years before I started working with him in 2022, and so I sort of thought it would be released. And he's like, I have no silk. So in Mexico, you know, like, I didn't. We didn't have any information of, like, the silk that he liked, where it was coming from. So I started just sourcing different silks in Italy and China, sending them to him. And it went. We went through like a whole year where he was weaving it, and it took so much time because he would start weaving and then it breaks. I don't like this one. Or he. He's very specific that he needs this to be super raw without any dye, without any treatment. Sometimes I would send things that the mill will be like, it's completely run. And it wasn't, because when he makes it gets it weather with, like, soap coming out. So we went through kind of like a whole year of trial and error. I actually sent him some, like, beautiful, expensive silks, and he made these beautiful reboots. And he's like, my fingers are bleeding. I refuse to work with it. So I was like, okay. So we finally found the silk that he was comfortable with, and we've been. We're like a full circle. So we heirloom supplies the school with silk. We were constantly flowing silk. And then once they finish, they send them to us. And we have a wait list for our website. And we try. You know, at first, I didn't want to, because we try to do fair pricing. Right. I don't want to put my prices higher than if you went to Mexico and you found them. Yeah. So we kind of like, okay, let's not wholesale these, because otherwise we'll lose money. But then sometimes the stores really want them. So we try to just as like, brand awareness. And also for the artisans, we. We limit our wholesalers every season. Like, this season you can only get 10, or this season you can only get 5. For us to sort of get their Arturo's name out there and get awareness of this rainbow. So. But it's just not sustainable for us to, like, really. So it's more of, like, a heirloom.com thing that we've been trying to build with him, and it's growing. And, you know, at first he would send me a few, and then he would work on something else, and now we have, like, a steady flow of, like, we're always blowing him silk and.
- [08:41]
A
Wow.
- [08:42]
B
Yeah. It's been, like, an emotional journey for him and for me.
- [08:46]
A
Yeah.
- [08:47]
B
What's really nice about it is a lot of the conversations I have with him. You know, he has a lot of fear of technology. He's like, young people don't care about this anymore, and it's made by hand, and they don't understand it. And it's true, you know, like, not even, like, people, like millennials are too young for him to care about this craft. And it's been really amazing to see how quickly we sell them to American women who maybe don't even know what it is. But we. Yeah, like, we sell. We. I don't even know if I could sell as many in Mexico. It's amazing to see the response in the US for over this craft. I think people are craving that authenticity. And so, yeah, it's been growing, and we're continuing working with him and trying to help him sort of get a little bit more support.
- [09:38]
A
Yeah, well, they're. They're so glamorous. They're so beautiful, and they're really so functional. I mean, they actually just really work. So I could talk about craft forever, but talk to me a little bit about Mexico and where you're from and how you were first, I guess, introduced to craft or craft or how you first understood it.
- [10:01]
B
Well, I'm from Monterrey, Mexico, which is in the north, right below Texas, Northeast. It's actually a pretty big city. So, you know, the biggest cities in Mexico are Mexico City, obviously, and then Guadalajara and Monterrey, where I'm from. Monterrey doesn't have. It's, like, pretty modern. It doesn't have some of, like, the history that you have in the south of Mexico, mostly because it's like, it was a desert, so it's mostly a new city. And there's, like, a lot of car factories and a lot of industry. So I actually grew up there. My dad is from Mexico City, and my mom's from Santillo, which is a very small town. And where I grew up in Mexico is very Americanized. I actually went to an American school in Mexico where all the teachers were American. And I think that my whole life, my parents really encouraged us, like, you should go to college in the States and stuff like that. But they also really pushed us. You know, a lot of the people in Mexico travel a lot on vacation to the US Or Europe or wherever. And I think my parents really kind of pushed us, like, there's no point to go to see the world when you don't know your own country. And so we would travel a lot within Mexico for vacation. And my parents have always collected artesania, which is, like, traditional kind of folk art. And so even though I grew up in a very. Like, if you went to Monterrey, you wouldn't see much of a difference between Monterrey and Texas. Like, it's a very modern place. But I think my parents were always very encouraging of, like, patriotism and caring about crafts and Mexican art. So I. And I also grew up in a creative family. So my mom's a interior designer. My dad's mom was an artist. And everybody in my family has, like, a creative side of the brain. My sister's an architect. My younger sister's an artist. So I grew up around a lot of this sort of patriotism and Mexican art. But it wasn't really until I moved to the US That I started feeling, like, a lot of nostalgia for it. You know what I mean? Like, I think when you. When you live in Mexico, you're just another person. When you move, when you immigrate, you're a Mexican person in the. Like, I never was aware that I'm just a person. It's the same as, like, a food. It's like, it's just food. It's not Mexican food. But then you leave Mexico and it becomes Mexican food. It's the same way. I think I felt like once I moved to the U.S. i became very aware that, like, oh, I'm a Mexican person. This is like such a half of my personality, and so much of my identity is being a Mexican person. And I started having a lot of nostalgia for things that I grew up around that I took maybe for granted or I didn't pay much attention. And I think I really, you know, I moved to the States to go to Parsons School of Design. And I always wanted. Since I was a little girl, I always wanted to be a fashion designer. And think once, you know, I graduated from Parsons, you get on this hamster wheel and you're just going through jobs and jobs and jobs. And I always wanted to do my own brand. And this was always at the back of my mind, like, what am I going to say as a designer? And I think that's where that nostalgia played in. And so even though craft was always a part of my life, I never. I always kind of took those things for granted, like all these. You know, when my mom's an interior designer, when you go to her house in Mexico, she's like, oh, and this, you know, I found. This wood was found in this place. And this was like, she does. She works a lot of like that with artisans for her design. And you sort of take it for granted. And then when you, you know, you live in the US Hand work is very expensive. Everything. You know, my mom always says, because she said, she's like, I couldn't design in the US because everything is standard. Everything is standard.
- [14:11]
A
This is from our warehouse in New Jersey.
- [14:13]
B
Yeah, there's no custom windows. She's like, everything is standard. And so I really. I think as a grown up, I started really appreciating and really listening to. To that. That she says. And so much of heirloom comes from my parents and my growing up within these conversations constantly.
- [14:36]
A
What's your first fashion memory as a child?
- [14:39]
B
So my. My dad worked for a department store called Liverpool, which is huge in Mexico. It's a pretty big department store. And he sort of, you know, got that job through his family. His dad was also kind of part of it. And they would do this, like, modeling thing at the mall, like the department store. And I think I must have been like five or seven or something like that. And my dad was like, oh, everybody's inviting their daughters to model. And it was like this little Runway. And we were just modeling the clothes that they were selling at the store. But I remember not being very, like, very embarrassed, like, walking down this little Runway. But I remember sort of directing the other kids being like, go, stop. Turn around. And, like, I don't know why. I have this, like, very strong memory of such a child, like, directing the Runway of what everyone was doing. And I think I, like, grew up. Like, my dad worked on weekends because he worked for a department store. So every Sunday we would have to go to the department store to have lunch with him. And I have that memory of, like, that little Runway so clear, but also, like, how embarrassed I was and just wanting to be behind the scenes and bossing everybody around. So that was sort of like, one of my first kind of fashion memories.
- [16:06]
A
And so from high school, I mean, were you doing fashion or any sort of art in high school to get you to Parsons?
- [16:14]
B
This is also, like, a very early childhood memory. But I remember, like. I don't know why. I have also, like, a very clear memory of this, but I was, like, in kindergarten or something, and I remember drawing, like, a self portrait, like, all the kids in the classroom. And I remember when I gave it to the teacher, and she was like, wow, like, really impressed with my drawing skills as a very young age. And I think even then, I was like, oh, that's my thing. Like, I am the artist. And I always loved drawing, and I always was really good at that and not great at anything else in school. Like, all the other subjects, I was terrible at sports. I was terrible at. You know, I just. It's not even that I was hard. I just didn't care. I always was really good at drawing, and I think my parents always just encouraged that. They were like, oh, you know, don't. Like, they never pushed me too hard to be, like, the number one A plus student. They were like, oh, you're an artist. It's okay. Like, that's sort of what you're good at. And I always knew I was gonna do something with that. And I think I was, like, in sixth grade when my mom. When I told my mom I wanted to. I mean, I always knew what I wanted to do. And I've been very. It's been a straight line. I've never sort of had those moments where, like, oh, I'm not sure what I'm doing with my life. I think I was, like, in sixth grade grade when my mom was like, I found this design school in New York, and I only. And, you know, it was Parsons, and I only applied to Parsons. And that's the only thing that. The only path I ever wanted to take was.
- [17:52]
A
Interesting. You say that because I think that we think about people working in fashion or people. People being interested in fashion, being people that are really into clothes. And it wasn't until very recently I was in Marrakesh and went to the St. Laurent Museum, and there was a show that a friend of mine curated, and it was about St. Laurent's relationship with the theater. And they had drawings of his from when he was 16 years old. And I just never connected. I mean, I think, you know, you see drawings from Coco Chanel's drawings, say, or something like that, or Vionnet's drawings, and you're like, oh, interesting. But I don't think that I have ever connected how closely 2D, you know, actual hand drawing is connected to fashion Design.
- [18:41]
B
Oh, for 100%.
- [18:43]
A
It's so weird. I mean, I. But I don't think that the layman. I don't think that regular people understand that. And I obviously.
- [18:50]
B
I don't think I ever thought about. I mean, I like. I obviously love fashion, but I don't think I ever. I just really like drawing, and I really, like. It's like, therapeutic. I mean, one of my favorite things to do is, like, put on. I listen to a lot of podcasts and music, and I put my head. And I'll just draw for hours. And that's sort of like my favorite. One of my favorite parts of the process.
- [19:13]
A
And, Stephanie, what are you drawing? I mean, are you drawing clothes? Always?
- [19:17]
B
I think I've always liked drawing since I was a little girl. I love drawing people. And I think I either, you know, my sister's an artist, my grandmother was an artist. I think I either was going to be doing paintings. I either wanted to be, you know, Frida Kahlo or Karl Lagerfeld. Like, I think I always just really enjoyed drawing.
- [19:38]
A
And so Karl Lagerfeld, I mean, like, he was such a prolific drawer. And then those drawings go straight to. Into the atelier, and they're interpreting him. There's like, he wasn't a Draper, you know, I mean, I think that there's this whole middle part that I think is so interesting that doesn't necessarily need to be there.
- [19:57]
B
No, that's a great point. I think for me, I'm both. I draw a lot, and it's very rare that the final garment ends up looking at, like, my original drawing, because I draw a lot. I work with a pattern maker for a lot of the things that I'm very particular about, how I want certain things. I drape them after I draw them, and then I bring the drape and the sketch. But that's sort of like, for me, drawing is like 50% of the process. And then the second 50% is, like, once I get prototypes back. That's also my favorite part. I love ripping everything apart, cutting it, pinning it, and, like, sort of remaking it once I see it as a prototype. But I think, like, you know, there's some people that work that are pattern makers, that are designers that don't like to draw, that go straight to the. To the mannequin. Whereas, like, Karl Lagerfeld was a drawer for me, I'm. I'm a little bit of both. Yeah, I. I just didn't. I didn't learn how to do the draping part until I went to college. Like, I learned that at Parsons because I didn't grow up, like, sewing.
- [21:04]
A
Yeah. And so this is what I was going to say, too, that I think is really interesting about your collection. Having done this for nearly 30 years, I don't know of a collection that I've ever. Especially a young collection that I've ever picked up that fits so perfectly, like, every single piece. And I don't. And I. And I wonder about that. I mean, is that from. Do you think that's from your experience at Parsons? Is that rag and bone? I mean, is that. You know, it's like. It's just an interesting.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah, I think it's like years and years of, you know, every. Because I graduated from parson. I mean, I went to Parsons. I. You learn a little bit of fit in college, but really fit is just from doing it over and over and over and over again. I started my professional career, my first job at Ragamon, like you said, in 2008, and I was present at every single fitting. And I think, you know, when you work at big companies like that, there's sometimes a lot of people in the fitting. There's the creative director sitting there kind of watching you. But I've 100% always been the person with the pins on my knees, cutting things up. And I think just by doing it, you just learn so much. And I love that part of the process so much that even sometimes when you grow into a more senior role, you have, like, the assistants pinning and cutting. And I've always done that myself just because I enjoy it so much. And I'm. Sometimes when something doesn't fit, you just need to, like, cut it and see. Not fight with the fabric, see what the fabric wants to do. And it's such a important part of the process that I think, you know, I think I even interviewed at a job one time where they were like, oh, we have a tech team that I asked about that. I was like, okay, so if I take this job, who does what? And they were like, no, the tech team does that. And I was like, I'm not. I can't work here. I was like, I'm not comfortable. I need to cut it and pin it myself. And. And that. That just comes from, like, years and years and years of trial and error. Trial and error.
- [23:01]
A
And let me ask you about, like, at Rag and Bone, are you specifically over a category? Like, are you only jeans, only, you know, hard pieces?
- [23:12]
B
That was an interesting job because I was there for eight years. And the brand. I mean, it was a long time ago. The brand changed so much. Like, when I started, it was a tiny brand. I was sort of part of the original design team. And at that time, it was just, you know, me and another designer doing, like, all the women's wovens. There was, like, someone doing sweaters and someone doing men's, but it was like, just like two young girls designing the whole collection with the. The founders, like, overseen by the founders. And then as the brand grew, you. It just kept changing. It was like, well, now you're only doing dresses, and now you're only doing. And it. You know, they also had. The design team grew so big. And I think that I learned so much at that job of, like, how I like working and how I don't like working. And I enjoyed the beginning so much when we didn't really know what we were doing. But, like, when I look at. Back at some of those shows, those were, like, the best times, and it was just like a very small team, and you got to work on everything. I think once it got too corporate, that's been the most corporate job I've ever had. Once it got to corporate and we all got put into categories, I was like, this isn't for me. And I. I just felt like I don't like feeling, like, separated from the final. Because when you're only working in the category, you can't control the silhouette, right?
- [24:36]
A
Exactly.
- [24:37]
B
You're only doing bottoms. I want to know what the top looks like so I know what bottoms to design. Like, for heirloom, I'm designing the entire outfit. I'm thinking about what shoes she's going to wear, what's the top that's going to wear? And I even think about, like, well, if she buys a skirt, do I have more than one top that she can wear? Like, I'm thinking about everything, and I didn't like that. I could only focus on one small
- [25:01]
A
So I think from there, you. You transitioned to Elizabeth and James. Is that right?
- [25:06]
B
Yes.
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A
So tell me about working from. Going from. I don't want to bash Marcus, but what was it like moving from a company owned run by men to run by women?
- [25:19]
B
I mean, I think, listen, I love Marcus and David, and I will forever be indebted to them because they actually were my visa sponsors. And the reason I'm able to stay in America, they got me that immigration lawyer and the whole thing. So I think. But I do think, you know, and they're always, you know, like I said, eternally indebted. I think for me, the things I'm such a, like, girl in a way. Like, the things that I'm excited about, you know, like, Marcus was like, almost like a dictionary of, like, military jackets. He's like, that's the M15 jacket from that Warren. And he would, like, talk about pockets for hours. And I was like, I don't care. Not that I don't care, but I would be like, that's not what excites me. And I think when I went from that to working for Mary Kay Nashley, I definitely felt like, oh, we like the same things. We're also in the same age group, so the references were the same, and the things that we're excited about were the same. When you work for someone for so long, you don't realize what you're missing. Until I did that switch, and I was like, oh, okay, I get this. Or I understand why they're excited about this. So it was nice. And I think, you know, I. In hindsight, I. Or I have, you know, you never want to stay at a job too little because you can't grow anything in two years. You can't really build anything. You can't. It's. You're designing a year ahead, so you. But at the same time, I think, you know, eight years was a long time. And I think once I left after hearing this, working with the same people, then you leave into a different situation, and all of a sudden you get this, like, resurgence of creativity. And, you know, I got so excited, and it was almost like. Like, all this creativity came to me at that time because you're always hearing the same feedback, and then you're hearing something totally different. So it opens a lot of doors creatively, I think.
- [27:20]
A
Yeah.
- [27:21]
B
So that was very nice. And I. You know, I always tell younger designers, like, I think when you're. When you're young, like five years, five to six years, you should think about switching, especially when you're in the creative.
- [27:33]
A
Yeah.
- [27:34]
B
Think about switching. Because it almost. It's almost like hearing the same feedback over and over again sometimes. Might not be your aesthetic, but you get confused. Like, oh, is that like, what's the right thing? Or, you know, it's.
- [27:50]
A
It's.
- [27:51]
B
It's nice to switch it up.
- [27:53]
A
What was the biggest personal or professional challenge in those first 10 years out of Parsons?
- [27:58]
B
When you're a young designer, you're like. Like I said, you're in a design team, you're designing a collection. Things always get canceled or they drop or like, you're styling for the show and maybe a stylist is coming in and they're like, I don't like that. Like, when. When I would work on something and then it wouldn't make it into production or out in the world, it was like, oh, my God. Like that you feel devastated. And it's funny. Like, there was always this joke at Ragambone where it was like, oh, you can't love all your children the same. Which is such a weird thing to say. But it was like they were talking about, you can't love all. It's not true, but you can. I have two kids and I love them the same.
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A
Exactly.
- [28:35]
B
They would kind of say that, like, you can't love all your designs the same. You can't be devastated. And I think, like, that was, like, everything just felt so much more dramatic now. Like, when something doesn't make it, I'm just like, oh, whatever. There's always the next season.
- [28:49]
A
And do you keep it? You do? You file it?
- [28:52]
B
Oh, yeah. I have a lot of things where it's so funny because I have a lot of designs that, like, even like saying working for men to women. Like, I would do things at Rag and Bone and they wouldn't like them, and they would get filed in my head. And then you bring them, then you sketch it somewhere else, and somebody else might think it's the most amazing thing. So I definitely keep things. And there's sometimes things that got canceled, and I'm like. But I really like that. And I like. You try to exhaust that until you're like, okay, maybe it wasn't working, but, yeah, you always keep a file in your head of your favorite things.
- [29:26]
A
And so after Elizabeth and James, you moved on to Laleen. Were you already thinking about creating Heirloom at that time?
- [29:35]
B
Yes and no. I think I was thinking about creating Heirloom since I was at Rag and Bone. Elizabeth and James closed. Like, the company closed. And I had known Molly Howard, one of the founders of Millennium from Braganbone. So we worked at Rag and Bone together. And when Elizabeth and James closed, I think I texted her that day, like, I'm ready for you to hire me. Like, very, like, forward. And she was like, oh, you should meet, you know, Meredith and. And Val, who were. Who are the other founders. And I was actually super pregnant at that time. So my. I kind of went through the summer where I had my son, and then I started working. I freelanced for a sustainable brand that was like, just a small job in the meantime. And then I started working at LA Lean, and I had known, you know, Molly for a while, and I, you know, it was like a time where I was looking. I've never looked for more work, life balance, but I think I was at that time because I had. I had just had my son and it was just like a great place to work. And at that time in my life. And I learned a lot at Laleen, actually, about. Because I'd never worked at such a small brand. You know, at Rag and Bone and Elizabeth and James, you have, like, your tech team and you have a production team, and at Laleen, there was just, like, bare bones. And even though, like, the design part was not. Is not my aesthetic. And that job I'm so grateful for because I really learned how to, like, run a business because it was so small. And I got to do all these tasks that I had never done before. And I think, like I said, I had always thought about wanting to do my brand, but it really. I was at Laleen when Covid hit, and that really kind of, you know, the office closed down. I had a lot of the packages that would have gone to the office shipped to my apartment. And I was just, like, kind of almost like running a lot of the part of the brand that I hadn't done before by myself in my apartment. And I kept telling, you know, I also think, like, covet. We had so much time to think. My husband and I were in our apartment with our two kids for, like, four months, like, in this tiny apartment in New York without leaving.
- [31:52]
A
That was an impetus to start your own brand.
- [31:55]
B
And I was, like, shipping all the Laleen packages. And, you know, my assistant at that time was in Pennsylvania. He was helping. Like, we were all working really hard at Laleen, and they were. The founders were, like, so flexible. They really made, you know, nobody got fired. No one took a pay cut. They were so nice, and they really made sure we were okay. But I. I think it was during this time Where I was just so much time to think. And I told my husband, like, I haven't done what I came. I've been fantasizing about doing my brand for 20 years. I haven't done what I came to New York to do. And I think having. You know, sometimes when you get on the hamster wheel of, like, the career, you're like, one job, then the next and the next and the next. You're not really taking a step back to really think, well, like, who am I as a designer? What do I want to do? And I. I think Covid was really that time.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah.
- [32:46]
B
Where I was like, I haven't done what I came to New York to do. And my husband was like, well, you know, at that time, the big problem is I needed a salary. We both work, we have kids. So my husband was like, well, if you figure out a way how to freelance so that you could do your brand, then, you know, here's her. Like, this is how much money we could save up to do this. And so I. That's when really, it was like Covid, when I started pulling all my inspiration and putting together all the pieces that I kind of had collected in my brain and my computer for the last 20 years. So it wasn't like it was a build up. It wasn't like, oh, at Lalina, I decided to do my brand. It was like something that I had been thinking about since college. But then I think Covid really was a moment where I had a lot of time to think.
- [33:31]
A
And is the impetus to start a brand always. There's something that's missing from the market that I want to add to it that I think that people want. Or is it. It's half that and it's half. I want to represent artisans in Mexico, and I want to share this with the world.
- [33:46]
B
Both and, like, neither. Yeah.
- [33:49]
A
Oh, wow.
- [33:50]
B
This is really funny. I think since I have a box in my apartment since Elizabeth, and I've always been stuck in this, like, contemporary price point. It's not necessarily the fabrics I want to work with. And I had. I started building this box since Elizabeth and James with fabrics that I love, and I just open the box and touch it, like, ooh, if only I could use. You know, when you have to use $10 fabric and there's a €60 a
- [34:13]
A
yard fabric, you're like, there's a Toni Silk. Yeah, yeah.
- [34:18]
B
And like, one can dream. And I. And it came from this, like, need for me to fulfill this. Like. Like, I just want to make beautiful things that I believe in that I want to wear that are in, like, the most beautiful fabrics. And a lot of, like, what I do at heirloom, some of the shapes are very everyday. But then we're using, like, the most expensive evening fabric that would maybe the male made for, like, Valentino couture. But I'm using it to make some trousers. And I think, like, that's always been something I wanted to do and. Yeah. And like, the, the craft was important. Oh, I, I, I, I don't think I've ever thought, like, oh, I see this hole in the market. I think I just knew what I wanted to design. And the customer has let us know what the hole was.
- [35:06]
A
Yeah.
- [35:06]
B
Based on, like, what we do really well with. I never thought of, like, oh, you know, nobody's doing this.
- [35:12]
A
That's interesting.
- [35:13]
B
For me, it was like this. The word in Spanish is like, I had this, like, hole in me that I wanted to fill. Not in the market of, like, I just want to work with these beautiful fabrics and I want to make things that I love. And then the customer has let us know what that hole was based on, like, what we're doing really well with.
- [35:34]
A
Well, and I think that's really beautiful, too, because I think that for me, when I walk in the store, I also, I mean, it just shows when you're really being yourself and you're really expressing yourself with nothing else, you're always going to be original and special. And I think when I walk in my stores, I mean, I think the heirloom stands out more than anything else. I mean, there's nothing like it. The way that it looks, the way that it fits, the way that it's priced. I mean, it's just so special. And I think it's remarkable. Really.
- [36:07]
B
Thank you. No, I think it wasn't. The artisan and the craft part came from this, like, nostalgia thing that I feel like I live in. And it also came from, you know, just, I'm still very close. All my friends that I had in Mexico in my childhood, I'm still friends with all of them. Like, I, half my brain is there, my parents are there. I am still in the friend chat, you know.
- [36:35]
A
And in your house in San Miguel.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah, like, I'm halfway there. And I, I wanted to do something to do with Mexico, and I have this, like, craft part of my family. And so I didn't know. That kind of became very obvious to me in the sense, like, we, you know, you move to this country and you get these great opportunities and, you know, I Know that I've worked hard and that I'm talented, but it. But a lot of it is luck. Right. There's so much talent in Mexico that hasn't had people that haven't had the opportunities to come to New York to go to Parsons. And so I also. I hate the word give back. It's not giving back. It's like, how do you use your opportunities that you've had to sort of bring other people in?
- [37:23]
A
Share.
- [37:24]
B
That's where that.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah.
- [37:25]
B
And that's where, like, the artisan thing came. Came about. It was like, a mix of all these things, but I never have thought of, like, the hole in the market because I also think most people don't know what they want until they see it.
- [37:39]
A
Exactly.
- [37:40]
B
And I think for me, like, that's sort of been our story. I've never. I do. I do think that, you know, there's a lot of great brands in the market that are not necessarily coming from. Because I. I was, you know, up until recently, working also as creative director at Argent when I. While I was been building Heirloom. And, like, that's a brand that was founded by someone in business who saw a hole in the market, who's trying to fill in. That also works as well. I think, for me, just. That's just not how it happened. It's been something that was a hole in me.
- [38:13]
A
Yeah, we talked about Arturo, but tell me about the other artisans you work with and what's the most meaningful feedback that you've received from them?
- [38:22]
B
Well, we've worked with. Most of the artisans we've worked with work in, like, wood carving or pottery and stuff like that. And to work with someone that paints, it's. Prints are so personal. And I kind of, in a way, have always. There's not a lot of prints in my closet. And it's the most literal way for us to bring what the artisans actually do. And so we always start with the artisan first. So each collection, we choose a person that either is a muralist or they paint on pottery or. But usually someone that works in a. That's why the brand name came Heirloom. It was the idea of skills passing down. So, like, for spring collection, we worked with Bernardina Rivera and her daughter Roselia. And they. They've been working in this craft for. For a long time. It was passed on from their parents. So we usually, like, pick someone, they design the print, and then we use that as the starting point for every collection. So whatever they. I don't give them too much direction But I also, I have a contract with them where, like, they can express themselves in the print that they design. But once I receive it, I decide if it goes in a shirt.
- [39:30]
A
Yeah.
- [39:30]
B
And so usually we start with them first, we get the artwork, and then that becomes the base for the inspiration. So Rosalia did like, a very feminine flower. That's what she does. And so the whole collection became very feminine. And then we use. We also work with artisans in Bolivia for all our knitwear is handmade in Bolivia. So we. What we do is take the Mexican artisans artwork and send it to the artisans in Bolivia, and we work with them on like, knit downs and see how we. I mean, it's. Sometimes it has. We work with them on something that has nothing to do with the artisan artwork. But we try to incorporate like with spring, we send them the flowers and we ask them to do a knit down based on those flowers. So it. So that it's like. And so the artisans in Bolivia, we work with them every season. And then Arturo, we work with him every season. That's like an ongoing relationship that we're building. And, you know, we're working as we grow in our categories, like hats, shoes, bags. That opens a lot more opportunity for other artisans that we haven't been able to work with yet, just because of like, that sort of category. I think all the artisans have been very special. I think one that has been very, very special was Angelico Jimenez. He's from Oaxaca. When we worked with him, we went in person. And it's so hard for us with two kids and a business to like, travel to visit every artisan. Some of the artisans we've worked with are actually in very dangerous parts of Mexico. We worked with an artisan who is from Guerrero, which is one of the most dangerous states. And he told me, I can't leave my town to go sell my. Because a lot of them have to go to Mexico City to sell. And so it's that sort of been. I think one of their biggest challenges is like, how do we tell their story? How do we create content? Like Bernardina, they have one phone for the whole family for me to ask them. Everyone's like, I want to see content. I'm like, for me to ask them to make a video is just like, out of the question.
- [41:38]
A
Yeah.
- [41:38]
B
But we go when we can. And when. In 2023, I went to Oaxaca and I visited Hakaway Mariancheles, which are the creators of the Liberty. So we visited them and then we went to the other Alebrija Family, which it was Angelico Jimenez. And when we, the first artisan we went to visit, they have a bigger business, they collaborate with Tequila brands and they do all this stuff. And so I was kind of shocked to get there and realize, like, oh, they have a receptionist who's going to send me their later to their Instagram person. Like, there was a lot going on, which is not usually what we're used to. And then when we went to visit the second family, which was Angelico Jimenez family, I took my parents and he came out to greet us with like, mezcal shots. He was like, hello, family. And I just love. That was like one of my favorite days at Heirloom. He, like, welcomed us, we bonded. He, you know, showed us how he does his carving and that collection. He, he, he. We met him in July by. We designed the collection. By the next year, we launched. That was a fall print. So we launched in August. And then in December, he passed away. So I've been keeping in touch with the daughter who, you know, Angelica was this second generation. The art started with his dad. Angelico passed away, and now his daughter is working really hard too, because for them to get into the Fomento cultural books, which is like Banamex, the bank, the Mexican bank and the government make this book and they like, formalize, like, you're a master of craft. Now for her to make it into that book, she has to win all these awards and keep. Keep doing what her dad was doing. There's a whole system of how they work. So that's been like. I've been keeping in touch with her and I sent her the. All the clothes with her dad's print on it. And that's a. Been like a very. Because the whole point of being called Heirloom is the skills passed down. But I didn't expect in such a short time of our brand to go circle with one family.
- [43:46]
A
Exactly.
- [43:48]
B
We're like, oh, down the line, when they pass away, we'll work with our kids. But it happens so quickly. And we've really bonded. And she's talked to me a lot about feminism and being an artisan in Mexico. And so that's been one of my more special relationships, I think.
- [44:05]
A
I went to Egypt fairly recently, and there's no Craft in Egypt. Literally all the craft in Egypt is all made in Asia. Why has Mexico done such a good job? Is it tourism?
- [44:19]
B
Interesting. It's funny, I think that when you, you know, when you go to the airport in Mexico or like, the, like some of the little tourist shops. Sometimes you do see, like, made in China looks very similar. So I do think that the, I mean, I'm not an expert. I do think that the government in Mexico, though, has, like I said, this seal. I didn't know the silk was applied by the Mexican government up until very recently. So I do think that they're very protected. I mean, the Mexican government will come after you if you do them wrong. Like, we have. I've known of a few brands get sued by the Mexican government for appropriating things or taking things. So we. But I've not, I've grown. For me, I think, because I grew up in Mexico, some of this stuff was like, oh, it's obvious that they would get sued because I think the Mexican government tries to protect them. They just, there's just not a lot of money. I think people need to buy more of it for them to really keep going. But I think the Mexican government does do a good job of protecting them. They do a lot of shows.
- [45:23]
A
Yeah.
- [45:24]
B
The artisans will send me, like, oh, there's going to be a show in Cancun. We're all going to, like, they all, It's a community and they all talk to each other.
- [45:31]
A
I mean, I think as a culture, it's respected, which I think is a little unusual.
- [45:36]
B
There's a lot of respect. And I, and I, you know, when we work with them, we're very aware of that and like, how we give them credit. The styles all have their signature on it, their name on. We're very aware of this because I, I, even though they're being like, let's just in coming after brands that I think it's a good thing and I think that's why it's still around. It's because they're, they try to protect them. But ultimately I do think people need to invest in it for it to keep going because there's only so much the government can do.
- [46:05]
A
Yeah.
- [46:06]
B
Especially in, like, a poor country, you know.
- [46:08]
A
Yeah. Speaking of family businesses, you work, you work with your husband, is that right?
- [46:14]
B
Yes.
- [46:15]
A
Tell me how. How's that been? I can't believe you're still married.
- [46:20]
B
You know, it's funny because a lot of people ask this question and usually my answer, I mean, sometimes it's really fun. Sometimes I think the hardest thing about working with your spouse is that you never stop working.
- [46:34]
A
Yeah.
- [46:34]
B
My husband has this, like, terrible habit of like, we're about to go to bed, it's 2am because we work really late. And he's like, oh, can we Go through the emails together, I'm like, oh my God, you could have asked me like two hours ago when we were having dinner. But other, like, I think for the most part it's not that different than raising kids because when you're raising kids with someone, you're kind of raising a little company. You're having to compromise between like, what school are they going to go to, what religion are we going to raise. Like, my husband and I come from different countries, we grew up in different religions. We were raised, I think, different, but in the same values. And when you're raising kids, you're kind of compromising on all these decisions and meeting in the middle. And I always tell people, like, if you can raise kids together and not kill each other, you can do a company, you can do a business. But I think the hard thing is like, you just. We're having a lot of fun and I think it's brought some interesting things because I, you know, my husband works in completely. He works at J.P. morgan still. He has still a full time job. He comes from a totally different industry. And before there was like a wall. Like, you come home, you're tired, you're talking about work, and there's like a wall of like, he kind of understands what I'm talking about, but not really. But now that we're doing it together, there's like, there is so much more to talk about. There is a better understanding. There's also like, there's more respect because I'm like, oh. He's like, oh my God, I can't believe, you know, he's like, you've been working in fashion for so long. I can't believe how hard this is. Like, I didn't realize.
- [48:09]
A
Yeah.
- [48:10]
B
So there is, there is like some positive. I think the hard thing is like, you just never stop working. And. And I actually said this to someone the other day because I was like, sometimes, you know, when we're doing date night, we're like, oh, let's invite another couple so that we stop talking about work. And we could talk about them because we're. If we're sitting just the two of us in a restaurant, we're gonna be like, did you see the email? Did you answer? When is this shipping? And it's just like, just, you're just not. Doesn't stop. The work. Doesn't stop. But it's. For us, it's been fun. And it's also been like an excuse. Like we just went to Oaxaca to, to do a shoot. It's an excuse for Me to. Yeah, like the vacations should be in Mexico because we might as well be there and do the shoot and visit the artisan. And it's, it's just become like. And the kids are involved. So it's a whole family business. And we just went to Oaxaca and visited Mari Carmen, who was Angelico's daughter that passed away. And I took the kids now because I've been talking to this woman and they know the whole story. Before I took my dad and my daughter was like talking to her daughter and it's just not. It is nice to have a family business because, you know, I hope that even though it's annoying for my kids to come to the office on the weekends, I hope that they like eventually appreciate it when they're older.
- [49:29]
A
My daughter is 21 and has never, has always, you know, eye rolled a lot about all of the things that we, we had to do. But now she's interning with me this summer and really interested in it. So I think you never know. And I think is you, you just do what you do. It's a family business.
- [49:45]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [49:47]
A
But it has to seep into them, I think. I mean it, it really has to.
- [49:51]
B
Oh, for sure. My mom, you know, I grew up, my mom has a business with her best friend since she was in her 20s. And they're still going. I mean they've been doing their interior design business for a long time. And I think as a child I resented how hard she worked. And you know, you didn't come to my ballet recital because you had a meeting and I always gave her such a hard time. And then you grow up and you become just like them. So I hope, you know, like you appreciate them in the long term.
- [50:22]
A
Exactly.
- [50:23]
B
I hope that I'm doing the same.
- [50:25]
A
So you, you're four years in. If we were, if we were to talk in four more years, where would you hope to be?
- [50:32]
B
I mean, I hope that like our business has grown where we have a few more. We're definitely want to expand more categories where because we're small, we keep it very tight. And I find myself like wanting to wear heirloom every day. But I'm like, I don't have anything casual to wear to like just expand a little bit our offering and I think grow our team. I think we have, you know, it's me and my husband and we have like two full time employees who work extra hard doing so much and I hope that we can get a few more people so that people can breathe
- [51:08]
A
and take a Vacation, get married as one of yours. Right?
- [51:14]
B
Yeah. And, like, hopefully, like, we don't go to bed at 2 in the morning. So. Yeah, we're just, you know, we want to keep going. We're excited about that direction that we're in and. Yeah. And we just want to, like, keep building and keep growing and have more. I definitely feel like there's so many, you know, like I said, because we're such a small team, it's hard to travel to Mexico. And I hope to do a better job of telling those stories, you know, not just with the clothes, but also, like, going down there, shooting a little video and like, do a better job of that awareness and the, you know, that trust that they've put in us to promote them internationally. Still trying to figure out what else we can do to do a better job of telling their stories. So that's definitely something that's in my mind a lot.
- [52:07]
A
We ask our last question on every podcast. What did you wear to prom? And I'm thinking at the American school in Monterey. You definitely had a prom, right?
- [52:16]
B
Yeah, we didn't call it prom, but I definitely. I know exactly what I wore. It was a Jill Stewart dress.
- [52:22]
A
Oh, cute.
- [52:23]
B
It was so not how I dress now.
- [52:26]
A
Was it from Liverpool? No.
- [52:28]
B
I think this is so sad. But we, like, we bought a lot of home stuff at Liverpool and everybody in my hometown in Monterey, you, like, travel to the U.S. i mean, this was like, my. My, how I. I experience fashion. You would travel to the US Twice a year for a weekend and be like, buy everything you need for the next six months. And so we spent a lot of time going to, like, San Antonio, Texas, Dallas, Houston.
- [52:55]
A
Some of my best clients are from Mexico, by the way.
- [53:01]
B
Yes, they come. I mean, the Mexican ladies will come in, and they're the best, like, crazy.
- [53:06]
A
And they love clothes.
- [53:07]
B
Some of my, even my heirloom clients, like, I see things getting ordered to Texas, to San Antonio. I'm like, that's. That woman's definitely from Monterey. Yeah. So I think, like, I wore. I went. I went somewhere in Texas.
- [53:19]
A
Yeah.
- [53:20]
B
And I bought a. It was like. It was a strapless chiffon dress that kind of started nude, and then it ombre into, like, red or, like, pink.
- [53:30]
A
That's cool.
- [53:31]
B
So it was. Yeah.
- [53:32]
A
And accessories.
- [53:33]
B
I feel like it was a great dress, but I was, like, way too tan at that time. It was the early 2000s, so the
- [53:41]
A
nude was actually nude.
- [53:43]
B
The nude was of. The dress was lighter than my skin because I was, like, baked. It was a different. You know, we weren't think in the early 2000s, we weren't thinking about skincare the way young, young women are now.
- [53:56]
A
And then accessories, shoes, jewelry. Do you remember their bag?
- [54:00]
B
I don't. I do remember, really. I mean, I was in prom, for me was 2004. I do remember being very much into Mark by Marc Jacobs. That was like the coolest thing. And I. I think I must have had some Marc. By Marc Jacobs shoes.
- [54:17]
A
I love it.
- [54:18]
B
It was like my fit. I was obsessed with everything from Mark by Marc Jacobs at that time of my life.
- [54:23]
A
Yeah.
- [54:24]
B
Yeah. The bags, the shoes, everything. And it was like, you know, it was the only time in my life that I wore a lot of color when I was wearing Mark by Marc Jacobs. I haven't worn color since or before then. It was like I went through this phase, Marc Jacobs phase. Very, very strongly.
- [54:41]
A
He brought it out in you.
- [54:43]
B
Yes.
- [54:44]
A
Thank you. Stephanie. Is there. Is there anything that I haven't asked that feels important to share?
- [54:49]
B
No. I mean, I think you've asked a lot of great questions, and some. Some of the questions, it's like, it's nice to talk about it because you don't think about it until somebody asks.
- [54:57]
A
Yes.
- [54:57]
B
It. And so I really enjoyed this.
- [54:59]
A
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [55:02]
B
Thank you so much. Thank you.