← What Your Therapist Thinks
What Your Therapist Thinks
Why Did We Start a Mental Health Podcast? Felicia & Kristie's Origin Story
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- [00:00]
A
So it wasn't until college that I was in therapy for the first time. And I did not do it because I thought I needed help. I did it because I knew I wanted to do this for other people. And I just wanted to see I.
- [00:12]
B
Was going to become a therapist. I took every clinical internship, every psychology course, but then I got to the end of it and I was like, ooh, I should not help anyone.
- [00:21]
A
And I think it took me a long time to appreciate that some suffering isn't as obvious, including my own, and that it's still feel valid and worthy of care.
- [00:30]
B
I think that's what I thought therapy was, is just making hard stuff go away. But then.
- [00:38]
A
The Internet loves throwing around words like gaslighting, narcissist, and toxic. But most of the time they're getting it wrong.
- [00:45]
B
In this podcast, we unpack the Internet's most asked anonymous mental health questions that you wish you could ask a therapist. And by anonymous, we mean the Reddit questions you post in the middle of the night.
- [00:57]
A
If you're new here, welcome. I'm Felicia Keller Boyle, licensed somatic therapist.
- [01:02]
B
And clinical advisor@besttherapist.com and I'm Christy Plantinga, founder of Best Therapists. And I've been in a lot of therapy. This show is brought to you by BestTherapist.com, a therapist directory that vets therapists so you can focus on fit, not quality. You can find your best therapist@besttherapist.com it's time to find out what therapists are really thinking.
- [01:25]
A
Today we have a really special episode for you, Christine. I are going to help you get to know us a little bit better and share some of our own mental health journeys and really what inspired us to create this podcast. So I don't know about you, Christie, but I'm a little nervous. I'm a little excited. I think it's going to be cool to let people, you know, get a bit more of a window into who we are because they might be wondering. I mean, it's kind of obvious, right? I'm a therapist. You've been in a lot of therapy. Why we would start what your therapist thinks. There's more to the story. And so today we're gonna be sharing a bit of that. And yeah, it's both, both a little nerve wracking and excited. How are you feeling about it?
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, I think the same way. One of the best things I think we all can do as people who are passionate about mental health is break the stigma of silence around mental health. And that there is no shame in having struggles with mental health. You know, we'll get into it, but we both have definitely struggled with our mental health, for sure. And, of course, it's always scary to put your story out there, because there are gonna always be people who are judgmental. It's one of those things that's tough to understand if you haven't been there. Um, but I think it's really, really important to be more open about this stuff. Yeah. Hopefully someone listening feels more encouraged to share what they're going through with other people. And the more people that can break the stigma, the better. I always think if more people got therapy, the world would be so much better.
- [02:54]
A
I couldn't agree more. So, Christy, what got you interested in mental health?
- [02:59]
B
Yeah, I think. And I've heard this from many other therapists that I work with. I work with many, many therapists in the different businesses that I have. I'm obsessed with therapists. I love therapists. I love that I get to hang out with them all the time. But I was very much in the kind of sensitive kid, good listener to therapist pipeline, which is very commonly. Somehow escape escaped. And I somehow escaped, which is great, because it's really not the career for me. I love supporting therapists. It means the world to me. But, yeah, so I think I was a really sensitive kid. Like, I always had big feelings, right? Just big feelings as a kid. But I specifically remember this one time, like, I was pretty young, probably middle school, and I was just, like, journaling, like, being all moody and sad, looking out, like, this dark fall day. And, you know, I just had all these.
- [03:51]
A
And you grew up in Michigan, right? So I'm trying to. I'm trying to, like, paint the picture of, like, the scenery.
- [03:57]
B
Yeah. Very cold, wet, wet leaves sticking onto the sewers. And I was like, they get it. The leaves. Yeah. I was like, that's how I feel. You know, that's me. So I think I was always just this kind of older soul, sensitive kind of kid. So I think in some ways, I was maybe set up for things like depression because I was just kind of more comfortable with those. Those feelings. Not that anyone obviously chooses to feel depressed, because it's terrible, but I just became more interested in and interested in it as my life unfolded, as more things began to aggravate my mental health problems. And I think when you're encouraged, it's like you're a good listener. It's like, well, what else would I be than a professional listener? Which is kind of what people Think therapy is a lot of times. So I was going to become a therapist. I took like every clinical internship, every psychology course in college. But then I got to the end of it and I was like, ooh, I should not help anyone. Like, that is not a good idea for me right now. And I thought maybe I would in the future. Who knows? Maybe I will at some point if I ever.
- [05:09]
A
There's still time.
- [05:10]
B
There's still time. Life is long. But yeah, I just decided that it wasn't for me in a professional way. But I never lost the passion. I never forgot how therapists changed my life. And so I kind of got to segue back into the mental health world using other skills that I had. So it all started, I think big.
- [05:33]
A
Feelings, kid, way back when.
- [05:35]
B
Way back when. And the. Yeah, that was at least what got me interested and I think just paying attention to my mental health.
- [05:42]
A
How old were you when you first got into therapy? Like, when did your therapy client journey begin?
- [05:48]
B
I was 19 when I went to my first therapy session. I've seen a handful of therapists over the years and they all, I think, taught me different things, which has been cool. I definitely have my preferences. I think of the therapists that changed my life the most. But I think I should have been in therapy much sooner. And to your point, when you were referring to if I'd got treatment sooner, I feel that way about my own mental health journey. I just wish that I got help sooner because I don't think it would have gotten as bad as it did if I got help before it got to that point.
- [06:27]
A
Yeah, that makes me think about one of the reasons that I was drawn to the mental health world. I was just really aware from a super young age of a lot of things that weren't good. I'm the oldest of two kids raised by a single parent. My dad really wasn't around when I was growing up and there were, yeah, just like a lot of people in my life who were really suffering, including myself, but just not in as obvious a way.
- [06:57]
B
But you were saying how you. Your struggles more internal than the people in your life where it. Maybe it was more obvious.
- [07:06]
A
Exactly. So there were, there were lots of people in my life who had struggles that were like pretty obvious, you know, and mine were. Were serious, but just less obvious because I was very quote unquote functional. You know, I was getting good grades. I was not getting in trouble at school. It took me quite a long time to like, really make friends. I was very much a loner, especially when I Was very young and definitely relate to what you said about being an old soul. Like, I felt very comfortable speaking to adults or, like, being in a leadership position, but if the thing I needed to do was play with other children or just, yeah, I could play by myself, but if I needed to play with other kids, I was just very kind of, like, confused about how to do that. And so I spent a lot of time when I was young just, like, by myself or in teachers classrooms. And it really wasn't until, like, junior high in choir class, where I. I met some friends, and I kind of got into this group of people that I'm still friends with today.
- [08:18]
B
I love that.
- [08:19]
A
I know, I know. And. And I love these people so much. We're basically family. Like, these are my group of friends that I've known now for. Yeah, the majority of my life are still going strong and.
- [08:30]
B
Yeah.
- [08:31]
A
But before that, I was really kind of on my own. And even after I started, I don't know, feeling a little bit more at ease with people my age, I still didn't really talk to them about what was going on. You know, I still kept a lot of that to myself. I was so focused on the other people in my life that seemed like they needed help that even though I'm.
- [08:54]
B
To say this sounds like a classic, I'm the one that's doing okay. So I'm gonna shoulder 100% chaos because I'm the one that kind of has it together when inside there is actually just as much chaos. But you are the responsible one who felt responsible for the people around you.
- [09:12]
A
Exactly. And so when you're talking about that, like, you know, deeply sensitive, you know, old soul to therapist pipeline, I absolutely fit that bill. Again, wasn't so great at talking to peers, but if they needed something or if they were hurting or if they were trying to figure something out, I was, like, the best person to talk to, you know, because I could really help them figure it out. I could be, you know, a compassionate listener. And I really, really, really cared about people feeling better. And I was also, like, had this drive to help people earlier in their lives. So, like, before I became a therapist, I was really interested in working with younger people, working with children, because I thought, well, how do we reduce suffering? We work with people as soon as possible so that, you know, like you were saying, early intervention, timeliness of treatment, Timeliness of treatment. Like, if we can help people when they're younger, then we could potentially prevent young even more suffering. And ultimately, I didn't work with children that much. But that was kind of my initial interest when I was first starting out in the field or when I was first considering being a therapist.
- [10:24]
B
Yeah, just a healer's soul, which I think is what draws so many therapists to the field, is they just genuinely have this beautiful heart that they want to make people feel better because life is really hard, and the way it's really sad. Yeah.
- [10:39]
A
And I think over the years, I've really come to appreciate the fact that suffering is something that everyone experiences, you know, regardless of what it might look like. People who are very well resourced still experience suffering. People who are very under resourced still experience suffering. And I think it took me a long time to appreciate that some suffering isn't as obvious, including my own, and that it's still valid and worthy of care. So, yeah, that's been a big part of my own journey. And I'm happy to say, like, eventually, I, like, have started to take care of my own mental health.
- [11:15]
B
Right.
- [11:15]
A
Like, it took a while for me to feel like it was okay to turn the spotlight back on myself.
- [11:20]
B
I was gonna say, did you decide to help others or yourself first, like, when you were deciding to pursue this as a profession?
- [11:30]
A
Well, I was 13 when I decided to be a therapist, so.
- [11:33]
B
Amazing.
- [11:36]
A
I definitely was more concern with helping other people than myself, you know? But, yeah, I mean, definitely, eventually I did start getting help. Christie, what are some of the things that have affected your mental health?
- [11:50]
B
I call it a proclivity for the SADs. This is what I refer to it a lot, I think.
- [11:55]
A
So Poetic.
- [11:56]
B
Yeah. That's very writerly of the SADs, you know, which I think maybe a lot of listeners have. You know, I think I was never afraid of the deeper things. I was never afraid of hard conversations. Like, I've never understood why people, you know, don't ask other people who have just, like, lost a relative or a parent or like, a pet, like, how are you doing? Cause, like, I don't want to bring it up, you know, Like, I don't want to upset them. But from my experience, I'm not afraid of asking those kinds of things to people because I'm not afraid if they'll get, you know, a little sad or emotional. But also, it's so much better to be asked than to not be asked at all, you know, So I was always just really more comfortable in that. In that space. So I think I was predisposed. Right. When it's like nature versus nurture, I was predisposed to struggle with my mental health. And then in high school, I was diagnosed with a chronic condition that runs in my family. And I felt very alone with it. I think I needed more, more help than I got because everyone just does the best with what they have at the time. You know, it's when you just aren't expecting something and you don't know the best thing forward. I think that's where I got caught a bit. And so I kind of just buried it and, you know, just did what I needed to from a medical perspective, but didn't really, you know, how am I going to deal with this throughout my life? Because it's a chronic condition. It never goes away. Right.
- [13:27]
A
That must have been scary to get that news as a young person, I imagine.
- [13:33]
B
Yeah, I think I was diagnosed at 13. And so you're just this chaotic teenage girl, you know, who. And all you want as a teenager is just to be understood because you don't understand yourself and you want to kind of learn who am I. Right. So this really, this core thing to who I was, I had no idea what to do with and I wasn't telling, you know, friends or really anyone at the time. It was kept very close in my family for many reasons, but that kind of bit me in the ass because I just kept it so close to myself that I think, Yeah, I was 19 and in college, my mental health just like evaporated. It just. I remember the morning, it was like depression sat in and I was like in a deep depression for a while. And then I just had no choice but to deal with it. I just, it felt so terrible. Like depression is truly one of the absolute worst things I think a person can experience. And I just knew I didn't want to feel that way anymore. I just, you know, I wanted that vivacity for life. If I think vivacity is a word, Right.
- [14:47]
A
If it isn't. If it wasn't, it is now.
- [14:50]
B
Yeah. And it should be.
- [14:51]
A
So Shakespeare. Shakespeare, basically. So how'd you find a therapist? Like, what was the process you went through as a 19 year old? Did you get your parents involved? Did you go to your school counseling center? Did you look a therapist up on the Internet? Like, how do you find your therapist?
- [15:12]
B
Yeah, this was 2012. I mean, I certainly was not savvy at all. But I think first my parents swooped in and they were like, we are going to get you help. And I remember my. My godmother, whom I love so much, she's a psychologist and she actually taught psychology at the college that I went to for a While. And so she knew one of the school counselors there. So my first session ever was in. Yeah. Like a school counseling setting. And I remember I put, like. I, like, barely sat down with a chair, and I was like, you know, just, like, melted immediately. And I just remember being like, so you have depression, like, right away.
- [15:59]
A
They've, like, literally done no diagnosis, no use. No other diagnosis other than the fact that your butt touched the couch and you.
- [16:07]
B
Half my butt was on the chair. And he was like, yeah, girl, do you have depression? And it was so weird to, like, feel that. And again, like, he did his due diligence, whatever. I'm not. Of course.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah, I'm sure he did what he did.
- [16:21]
B
Yes, he did. But, like, he sees this, like.
- [16:23]
A
But it was obvious.
- [16:23]
B
It was obvious, right? So. And just to get that diagnosis, I remember I was just rocking with it in my brain. I just couldn't get my mind around it, that I was a person who had depression. I just remember that process being very difficult.
- [16:37]
A
But so are you saying, like, it was. It felt hard to, like, get that diagnosis? Like, when you got. It was, like, challenging to receive the diagnosis, or when you got it, you were like, oh, this makes sense. Like, what do you mean?
- [16:49]
B
I think it's both. On one hand, it was very empowering because I felt, you know, not quote, unquote, crazy. There is something wrong. There's something going on. You know, you're not just this dramatic, sensitive person, whatever, which I think you get told a lot when you are kind of a big, big feelings person, like, oh, you're dramatic, or people don't take you seriously sometimes. So then to get that diagnosis, it made me feel more confident in a way that, okay, I know I have this. But also, there is so much stigma around depression. And when I was even younger, more so for my, like, our parents generation, even more so. So I think getting the diagnosis was the first time I really felt stigmatized in my life. Like, I just experienced a lot of privilege, and I never really thought that. And I don't think the school that I went to was very sympathetic about mental health problems, because mental health problems don't always unfold in this pretty way.
- [17:47]
A
Right.
- [17:48]
B
So I went to a very Christian school, and, you know, I was getting into risky behavior. I was drinking. It didn't unfold in this, like, oh, sad, you know, kind of poetic way.
- [17:59]
A
You weren't just writing poetry about wet leaves on sewer grates.
- [18:04]
B
I had passed my artistic phase with mental health. You know what I mean? I was just. I was A fucking mess, to be honest. Like, I was a total mess. And that's really easy to judge on the outside, especially just when you're younger. And you just don't know that as much about people in the world. And I think ideally we gain an understanding of people and, like, more forgiveness for people as we get older instead of like, oh, if I were you, I would never do that, because you might be the person who doesn't do that.
- [18:34]
A
Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly.
- [18:37]
B
That's when I first really started the deep dive into my mental health journey. Anxiety definitely, definitely came with that. That took me a lot longer to recover from, and I still, you know, who doesn't have, you know, periods of time where their anxiety kicks up again? Um, yeah. What. What about you? Yeah. What are some of the things that affected your mental health?
- [19:02]
A
Yeah, I mean, what hasn't? Right. Well, everything I said already about just being kind of like a loner as a kid, there were some pretty, like, serious challenges that really early in my life that kind of, yeah, made me, like, quite nervous of other people, the world. I was just very sad. I was such a sad kid. I was also quite an angry kid, too. That definitely came out more at home. Maybe not so much like, with my peers or teachers or anything like that. But, yeah, like, I was pretty unhappy in a lot of ways. I think that was just my. My norm from such an early age. You know, it wasn't like, things were good and then they, like, started unraveling. It's kind of like things were pretty rough from almost the very beginning. So it was more like finally getting to a point where I was like, oh, I should do something about this. You know what I mean? Like, you. My first counseling experience was also in college. So like I said, at age 13, I decided I wanted to be a therapist. But that wasn't because I had experiences in therapy. Like, I know I had some family members who had maybe had brief therapy or were in group therapy at different points, but I don't think I was ever in therapy as, like, a young person. I definitely needed it, but I wasn't in it. Or if I was, maybe it was like a session here or there. Like, I literally don't even remember. It might have been like, sitting in on someone else's therapy in my family to kind of like, be a part of that family therapy, but I don't think I ever had my own. So it wasn't until college that I was in therapy for the first time. And I was very practical about it. I didn't go in because I was like, I need help. I went in because there's free therapy and I know I want to be a therapist. So, like, just for research sake, I.
- [20:53]
B
Should case study, you know, go be.
- [20:55]
A
In therapy to, like, see what this.
- [20:57]
B
Is actually like asking for a friend to receive.
- [20:59]
A
Yeah, I'm totally asking for a friend. Absolutely. I did not do it because I thought I needed help. I did it because I knew I wanted to do this for other people and I just wanted to see.
- [21:09]
B
What are you doing? Do you see him? He's just like, under the couch. Oh, my God.
- [21:17]
A
But despite the fact that I was going for research purposes only, when I got there, I, like you, just immediately started crying.
- [21:25]
B
And I cried one ass cheek on the chair, and it's like, oh, I need help.
- [21:30]
A
Turns out I'm not just here for research. But yeah, I mean, there's not a lot that I remember about that therapy except for the fact that I just talked and cried the whole time. But I do remember one thing that my therapist said that has stayed with me since that time, and it had. It had a huge impact. I remember I was talking about something from early in my childhood that was really sad. And I was just saying, I'm so sick of feeling sad about this. I'm so done of being. Being bothered by this, thinking about this. I just don't understand basically why I'm not over this, you know? And my therapist said something like, well, Felicia, what happened was it's really sad, you know, and it's. It's probably going to be sad for the rest of your life. That's not going to stop having been a sad thing. And what if instead of trying to feel like you need to stop having feelings about it, you just. Just made it okay to feel sad? And you could even, like. I don't think they said it this way, but I feel like they might have suggested, like, you can even decide that once a year you're gonna let yourself do it or you're gonna, like, create some sort of ritual around it. And I was like, oh, right, okay, I'm not broken because this still affects me because I still have feelings about this truly terrible thing. Like, that's not a bad thing to have feelings about it.
- [22:54]
B
So that was really helpful. It's so interesting how you were so quick to see the suffering in others and yet so hard to admit it for yourself.
- [23:08]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably a thing that a lot of therapists experience. I think there's probably a lot of overlap between, like, older siblings and therapists. I think there's probably a lot of overlap between, like, the being the person in the family who kind of quote unquote, has it together. Again, like, not that you necessarily have it together, because I certainly didn't. But you have the appearance of having it together.
- [23:32]
B
Right.
- [23:33]
A
I think there's probably a lot of overlap in those groups. And I was quite slow to really recognize that I needed help and to be willing to accept it, because I. I used to be, like, really, really, like, put off when people would express, like, I perceived it as pity, but maybe it was just compassion or care. But I really, really did not like it when people would try to be nice to me in that way. When it was clear to me that they noticed something that was, like, maybe a little off. And they would be like, hey, are you all right? And I'd be like, I'm fine. I would just straight up, like, lie to people when they would be like, are you okay? I'd be like, yeah, I don't have allergies. You would say, or maybe I do now, but I would be like, I have allergies. It's like, okay. Cause you look like you're crying, and we're just, like, walking through the halls.
- [24:22]
B
In high school, and I'm like, yeah.
- [24:23]
A
No, I'm like, totally fine.
- [24:25]
B
Totally fine. So that's on you.
- [24:27]
A
How dare you even suggest that.
- [24:31]
B
Tears actively streaming down your face. You're like, it sounds like a you thing. It's not me.
- [24:36]
A
I'm, like, basically crying now just thinking about it. It's that ridiculous. It's so ridiculous.
- [24:41]
B
I'll say this. Choosing to be the person that had to be okay. I absolutely prioritized other people's feelings above my own because, yeah, you just don't want to see people feel hurt. I don't want to bring this up because that might hurt this person's feelings. So I think. I'm sure a lot of therapists. And obviously, I know for me, again, choosing to be the person that I'm going to be, the one that's okay. I'm going to make sure other people feel better before me because their feelings matter more than mine at the end of the day is really what we're doing. Or there's just, like, no room.
- [25:17]
A
Sometimes it feels like there's no room, you know, when. When there's only so many resources to go around. When there's only so much attention or time or money or fucks to go around, it's. Someone is suffering again in A way that is much more obvious or much more acute, maybe dangerous. You know, it makes sense that the time, money, energy, resources, including your own, would go towards that person, but it doesn't mean that you might not be struggling in your own way. And for me, like, changing environments, going to college, leaving home, being in a place where I could put more attention on myself, was kind of the beginning of things starting to change.
- [26:05]
B
Yeah. How did your mental health journey unfold after that initial kind of, oh, I'm not okay. And I should maybe keep pursuing this. Not as a case study.
- [26:17]
A
Funnily enough, like, I didn't continue therapy. Like, you know, I graduated or like, that's that one free semester and school ended and so I stopped going. Now I know what it's like to see a therapist work and I know what it's like to be on the other side of that. A lot of my mental health healing has actually happened outside of therapy. It's happened a lot through engaging in somatic practices. It's happened through having a meditation practice. It's happened through recovery. I don't deal with substance addiction myself. I never have, hopefully never will. But like I said, I have a lot of loved ones who deal with addiction. So at different points in my life, I've been sometimes more, sometimes less involved with Al Anon. And so there are all sorts of things that I've done that have been really helpful for my mental health outside of therapy. So it's kind of funny as a therapist, you know, to like be a therapist and really love it and really value it and think like it's, you know, incredibly life changing for people, but to have actually had a lot of my healing happen outside of that context. Now these days I am, I am in therapy and I'm really enjoying it. And I'm at the point in my life where I'm, I'm like, really ready to receive that. But yeah, so a lot of my mental health shifts came through a lot of groups that I was in. Whether it was like, again, somatic practices or recovery or meditation groups that I.
- [27:49]
B
Was a part of.
- [27:49]
A
Like, I found a lot of healing through that and then occasionally supplemented by therapy. But yeah, I think for me, groups are just so powerful. I think something that was true for me growing up was just like really strong sense of isolation and specialness, but not in a good way, you know, and so I'm really so grateful to have been in different groups that really confront the beliefs that I've had around, around being special in ways that aren't Helpful, you know, and hearing other people describe experiences that are so similar to mine, and really, it's hard to walk out of those rooms still in the fantasy that, like, my problems are really unique or they're insurmountable. It's just so nice to be around other humans who were able to say, yeah, me too. You know, I feel that too. Even if. Even if our stories aren't ex. Exactly the same, just knowing that I'm actually not alone in these things has been such a huge part of the healing. And then the other piece is, yeah, like, getting into my body. Growing up, I was really, really disconnected from my body. I was super heady, super thinky, wanted to do really well in school, and I didn't really feel connected to my body. I was also raised in a very conservative church. And so, like, the body was just kind of like this dangerous place. You're not supposed to go there. Like, that's where sinful desires live. So it was very much, like, cut off from my body, very much prized, like, being smart and being good at school. So it really wasn't until my, like, young adulthood that I started reconnecting with my body, being curious about it, literally just like moving my body instead of just thinking all the time. And that has been so helpful. And it's a huge part of how I became a somatic therapist, because I did experience that sort of healing in my body first, and then I started using it with clients.
- [29:47]
B
I. I can totally see that. And I would love to do more somatic work in my therapy journey as it continues to fold. Also currently in therapy, shout out. Alicia, you are the best and you changed my life. Yeah. I think what was interesting about continuing and seeing different therapists, which I always recommend, you know, try out different therapists, it's good to see who you have more of a connection with. What approach resounds with you more, and it could change throughout your life too.
- [30:14]
A
I was just gonna say that, like, there was a period of time in my life where I hired a male therapist on purpose because I really wanted my transference about men and my feelings about men to get evoked in that therapy. And oddly enough, it didn't end up being like a big deal, but I intentionally did that. And this round of therapy, I intentionally looked for a therapist who provided emdr. Therap is a treatment that's often used for trauma because I knew I wanted to do some work around that. And it was also really important to me to find a therapist who did in person work because I really Wanted to do work in person. And so, yeah, I've chosen different therapists for, like, different stages of my life.
- [30:58]
B
Because every therapist is an individual. So you're obviously learning from all of their education and their clinical skills, but also just them as people. And I think that's so valuable, too, that different therapists can empathize deeply with different parts of your experience, but they might not be able to empathize with other parts. You know, I mean, obviously, empathy is the bread and butter of therapists. It's who they are. But obviously there are gonna be some things. If you haven't gone through it, you're not gonna get it as much and.
- [31:28]
A
How you feel just about different people, you know what I mean? I'm so aware, having worked as a therapist, that, like, the relationship between you and the therapist is just so valuable. All of the things that you feel about your therapist, the things you like about them, the things that frustrate you about them, how they respond to you when you're really liking them or you're really frustrated with them, can be, like, super evocative and helpful in the therapy. So, again, like, for me, it was important at one point in time to work with somebody who I thought might actually be activating for me, because I wanted to explore that in a container that would be safe, you know, and I'm assuming this person is gon be safe, and it's a place where my stuff could come up and it would be supported.
- [32:12]
B
Yeah, I think there's so much healing that we can do individually, especially when we're thinking about just outside of the therapy room or even in therapy. That's a very individual, often healing experience. But some of the most profound moments in my own healing journey have been in relationship, you know, like, through my. My relationship with my husband. So much was just healed with him that I knew I wouldn't be able to do by myself. Because you need to kind of break whatever pattern that you're in and then learn that that's not how all relationships have to be, or that's not true, or, you know, just, I think in relationship. You know, it's so funny that this is a podcast, like, largely about therapy, but then so much healing does happen outside of therapy, like you were saying, you know, And I know you're a very spiritual person, and that's been a really huge part of you just maintaining your own wellness and really exploring yourself. And what's interesting is I never really thought of myself as a spiritual person, but with my therapist, I learned that really what needed to be healed was my spirit, and it wasn't me, like, thinking through all this stuff, which you need to do. You need to talk it out. Right. But what I really needed was this kind of deeper, just cultivating of my inner wisdom and, like, letting my spirit trust, maybe. Trust? Yeah. Trusting yourself, like, believing, like, learning that I can have beliefs because, yeah, I was raised in a religious context, so belief was always tied to, like, organized religion and faith. And then it's like, I can have beliefs, and I can just choose to believe stuff because I want to. Like, I can choose to believe that reincarnation is real, that doesn't hurt anyone, and if I want to have that as a belief, I can have that. So I think reclaiming that was a really, really big part of my own healing, healing journey. And I'm not someone who currently, you know, meditates or. I think I'm probably more spiritual than most person, but I know a lot of, like, you know, like, really spiritual people.
- [34:13]
A
I think it's hard also when you come from the sort of backgrounds that you and I came from, because I know for me, when I stopped being a Christian, when I left the church, it took years for me to even understand that spirituality was something that wasn't synonymous with Christianity. I, like, felt a real repulsion, actually, towards anything that was spiritual or I perceived as spiritual. And so it took quite a long time for me to be like, no, I get to have spirituality, even if it's not the way I thought about it when I was younger.
- [34:51]
B
And I want to say, too, for listeners who are religious and exploring their relationship with religion, you know, religion can be a very healing place for a lot of people. So it wasn't for Felicia and I, but I even did a paper on this at college that people in religious communities had better outcomes for, like, cancer was a study that I read. I'm not saying that's like, listen, you know, that is truth, and go tell everybody.
- [35:16]
A
We don't know if it's been replicated multiple times. Exactly. But, yeah, there are tons of great things about spiritual communities. And I think what has been so important to me is being able to choose that, because I was born into it, and so were you. We were both born into the religions that we were a part of. And I know I certainly, at a certain age, chose it, like, with the, you know, capacities that I had at the time. I chose to be a part of that religion. But in many ways, it was something that was just a part of my life from the very beginning. And so what's so different now is having that choice. And like you said about being able.
- [35:54]
B
To choose beliefs, choose beliefs that help.
- [35:56]
A
You in your life and don't harm others. You know, what are the beliefs that I am going to live by? Because they're not coming from a kind of dogma outside of me. What are the things that I really want to hold true and live by? And also that that can change. You know, I think that's one of the other hard things about coming out of, you know, the ways that you and I were in religions. It's like. It's very much like it's this way, and that's the only right way. But I think one of the biggest mental health breakthroughs that I've had throughout my life has been accepting that it's okay for me to change. You know, I always really wanted to get it right. I wanted to be a good kid. I wanted to be a good person. I wanted to always do the right thing. And one thing that's been so important for me and feeling a sense of freedom in my life and choice in my life is that one, I can make mistakes. I can change my mind. I can think or believe something at one point and then learn new information and change my beliefs. And sometimes that means I've learned information, and I'm like, ooh, I messed up. I need to make amends for that. Or it might be like, that just doesn't seem true anymore based on, like, the new things that I know. And I'm allowed to just think and believe differently. And that freedom is so healing. That is so incredibly healing.
- [37:13]
B
There's so often a fear of making mistakes in relationships. I know that I had that. I was so afraid if I mess this up, if I say the wrong thing, if I stand up for myself.
- [37:21]
A
If I say, hey, I don't like.
- [37:23]
B
That, or, hey, I don't want to hang out tonight, or whatever. Being so scared that the relationship is just gonna disappear and they're gonna hate me. We talk about people pleasing a lot on the show because Felicia and I may or may not have struggled with that in our lives, but I think that's a lot of people pleasing. And, yeah, I'll just never forget I had this moment in therapy where I think we've talked about this, maybe on the episode about emotional abuse with Ashley Hudson, but that you can be the bad guy and you can make mistakes, and sometimes people are just gonna think that you're the bad guy because you hurt them, even though you know you were doing Your best that you could at the time. So that same grace that you extend to other people in your life, you know, oh, this person could mess up and I still loved them. But then not letting yourself do that, loving yourself despite messing up, I think that kind of forgiveness and that self talk is something than I mastered because I almost have like my therapist, she's like the angel on my shoulder, you know, where it's like, you're going through your, your day and you have, you're facing a tough situation, whatever. I can like hear my therapist just being like, hey, you know, like, I don't know, just like that, that inner voice, cultivating that inner voice in therapy, that is so valuable.
- [38:41]
A
Absolutely. I, that is such an important shift. And I think not having that in practice is one of the ways that our suffering can be so intractable. Because fundamentally, that's not accepting yourself. That's saying, my love for myself is conditional upon always getting it right. And if there's a moment where I don't get it right, getting it right can be like so broad, right? It might not even be like you actually did anything wrong. It might just be like you were a little weird and awkward and so now your brain is like, fuck you. I hate you. Like, how dare you.
- [39:14]
B
Like, you.
- [39:14]
A
You can't have friends anymore. That was so easy. To your point earlier about, like, you know, it can be so easy to offer people compassion and then have such a hard time doing it for yourself. It was so easy for me to see that other people were worthy of, like, love and compassion and that they deserve to have, like, better lives. Like, of course they shouldn't continue to suffer just because they did something wrong once or maybe even a lot, you know, but it was a lot harder to apply that to myself because your brain has the habits it has, right? And if it has the habit of really beating you up, it's not just as simple as, like, hey, don't do that. It's literally a process of rewiring your patterns. That's where somatic practices and things like meditation really came, came in. That's why they were so helpful, is because neither of those things are about thinking my way out of it. They're really about how do I regulate my system even while hard things are happening in my brain.
- [40:17]
B
I think that's what I thought therapy was, is just making hard stuff go away. But then life continues to be hard, like, even since having my son. You know, speaking of that self forgiveness piece where usually when you're in like a good place and Nothing is particularly traumatizing or anything. You can catch yourself and say, oh, I don't think that way anymore. I don't treat myself like that anymore. But I remember, like, I was trying to get some clothes off of him, and the zipper kind of, like, scratched his forehead, and I had him, like, three weeks ago. So I was, like, unstable a little bit, but I was inconsolable. I was like, oh, my God, look at this mark on my baby's forehead. I cannot. And it went away, like, an hour later. Right. And then I. If my friend texted me that I would say, what are you doing? Like, they're okay. It doesn't matter. He doesn't remember what happened 30 seconds ago. Like, you'll be okay. But that's also what therapy does, is it gives you those tools to catch yourself.
- [41:13]
A
Yes.
- [41:14]
B
When life continues to be traumatizing, so you don't have to keep repeating the same thing over and over and over again, which I think is frustrating. When you are a person who has been in a lot of therapy and then you have, you know, relationships with people who haven't, you keep seeing them do the same thing, and you're like, oh, God, that's so frustrating, because I know that it could be different for you, better for you. But that's part of, you know, a healing journey, too, is just accepting people, you know, for yourself. Accepting yourself, but also accepting others as they are, too. So we've both been on our own mental health journeys. This is your profession. Therapists are the people that I love to support in my own work. So in many ways, it feels very natural for us to want to start a mental health podcast. And I think I remember when we actually started talking more seriously about it, because we always thought, like, oh, it'd be so fun to do a podcast together. Yeah.
- [42:11]
A
We talked about it for, like, months, maybe even like a year before it actually started. We had been talking about it, and then, like, so many things were happening. It's like, I was very busy in my business. You were very busy in your business. You got pregnant.
- [42:26]
B
Right.
- [42:26]
A
All of these. I traveled for, like, a month.
- [42:29]
B
You were gone for a long time. Time having so much fun, but you were gone for a while.
- [42:33]
A
I traveled a lot. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, so many things just kind of delayed it. But we also really wanted to make sure that we were contributing something we felt excited about. And there were some things that were really important to us in creating the podcast. We knew that we wanted to handle, like, serious mental health topics, but we also Knew we wanted it to be fun, which is, like, not always an easy thing to do.
- [43:02]
B
Right.
- [43:02]
A
Like, one of the reasons why you and I enjoy talking with each other so much is because we have a lot of fun and we joke around a lot.
- [43:09]
B
Yeah. The dark sense of humor suits mental health topics very well.
- [43:13]
A
Totally, totally. And so we knew we wanted to have something that would feel, like, entertaining and fun and funny, but also, when the time called for it, that we could get serious. And we really wanted to be respectful about the topics that we were handling. So that was something we really wanted to get right about this show. And I feel really good about how we've done it so far.
- [43:35]
B
Yeah, me too. And I think, you know, it goes back to what we were saying in the beginning about how we feel even recording this certainly more vulnerable episode. But it's one of. It's just another one of those things that can break stigma, is just being a little more lighthearted when it's appropriate to talk about some of this stuff, because, yeah, I think most of us are just afraid of hard things, and we're afraid of talking about difficult things, but the reality is they're part of life frequently. And so being able to bring a bit more. I think levity and relatability is important to me. You talked about a lot.
- [44:15]
A
I'm remembering because you said, you know, as somebody who's not a therapist.
- [44:19]
B
Right.
- [44:20]
A
As somebody who is a therapy goer, you really helped me understand that therapy can feel kind of mysterious in this way, you know, especially what the therapist is actually thinking. Like, hence the title of our show. But as someone who has benefited so much from mental health care, you. I remember you sharing with me that you really wanted to get this information out to more people. Like, that was something that was really important to you about starting the show.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think we all. At one point or another, hopefully, we kind of start dipping our toes into the world of mental health. And I think of a podcast as just a great place to start. I just love listening to therapists and hearing from them. But we really liked that there was a professional, always professionals, licensed mental health professionals, but also someone who could kind of raise their hand and be like, well, what does that mean?
- [45:16]
A
Yeah, we need our everyman.
- [45:18]
B
Yeah, I'm the everyman. I'm the everyman. Every man for the podcast. But we spent so long just really workshopping, what do we want this to be? And I'm just so happy with all the conversations we've had so far. I've learned so Much from all of our experts, Anyone who's curious about mental health and thinks the world of psychology is really interesting, this is a great fit for that as well. But yeah, ideally, I think it would make me so happy to know that this did shape someone's mental health journey. Or I can relate to that. Or maybe I will start to look for a therapist this weekend. Even though I've been saying I'll do it for three years, just anything like that, that feels really special to me because we both know that we would have probably had better outcomes if we got help sooner. So if you inspire anyone to get help Sooner, shout out BestTherapist.com where we vet therapists. So you have to do a little less work maybe in the qualification process if even one person feels encouraged enough to find a therapist. Mission at job well done. Yeah, yeah, job done. Well with that. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you got to the end, it's a little scary to put out there in the world, but at the same time, I'm not ashamed of what I've been through.
- [46:45]
A
Yeah, exactly. I'm so with you. Like, all we've done is be honest here about ourselves and our lives. And we thank you for your kind attention. We hope that something that we shared resonated with you. And like Christy said, if you're looking for a therapist, please do check out BestTherapist.com leave comments on our show, Ask us your questions. Follow us on Instagram. I've been reading some of the DMs that we've gotten there and yeah, wow. Like, so many amazing responses. Someone wrote me and said that they were writing a book about one of the topics that we covered and they really enjoyed how we spoke about it. So that was really neat. I really love hearing from you. Also, please do keep on writing in, commenting on the show, sharing it with your friends.
- [47:31]
B
And letting us know what sorts of topics would you like us to bring an expert to speak about? We have a ton of super fun ones lined up for season two already.
- [47:41]
A
Season two is coming.
- [47:42]
B
Season two is coming. We have some baller guests. I'm so excited to talk to them.
- [47:47]
A
Just selfishly, really fun, interesting topics.
- [47:50]
B
Yes. I literally got to ask one of my favorite authors of a mental health book to be on the show and she said yes. And so I'm already fangirling majorly.
- [47:59]
A
I just started reading her book and we'll let you all. Well, that'll be a surprise for season two. We're not gonna tell you who she is just yet. You'll find out soon. But thank you so much for tuning in today. We do appreciate you being here. You are making our dream come true. You know, when Christy and I started this podcast, we could have never imagined that so many people would be tuning in and it's just such a such a delight to be sharing this with you. So thank you, thank you. That's all for this week's episode.
- [48:26]
B
If this conversation resonates resonated with you, the best way to support us is to follow, rate and review the show. Wherever you're listening right now. Are you watching on YouTube? Subscribe and drop us a comment.
- [48:37]
A
Have a friend in mind who could use the advice in this episode? Text them the podcast. You can also connect with us on Instagram yttpodcast. We want to hear from you, so slide into our DMs with your mental health questions. They just might be featured on a future episode.
- [48:53]
B
What yout Therapist Thinks is hosted by me, Christy Plantinga and Felicia Keller Boyle. This show is brought to you by BestTherapist.com, a therapist directory that vets therapists so you can focus on fit, not quality. You can find your best therapist@besttherapist.com Our.
- [49:10]
A
Show is produced by the team at Podvision.
- [49:13]
B
See you next time.