Love Is Blind’s Jess & Haramol: Two Hot Doctors and One Unexpected Love Story

Summary

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What's the Reality? – Love Is Blind’s Jess & Harmel: Two Hot Doctors and One Unexpected Love Story

Podcast Host: Amber Desiree (AD)
Date: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This heartfelt episode features an in-depth, unfiltered interview with Jessica (Jess) and Harmel, both ER doctors and cast members from Love Is Blind Season 10. Host Amber Desiree (AD) guides them through their unconventional love story, offering listeners a rare perspective on one of the season’s least-expected but most beloved couples. Together, they reflect on love found in unexpected places, navigating reality TV fame, difficult breakups, cultural representation, and building a relationship that thrives beyond the confines of the experiment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Relief, Realness, and Life After the Reunion

• 00:37: Both Jess and Harmel express immense relief at no longer hiding their relationship post-reunion.
  • “It’s a huge relief, I think, to not have to, like, hide. Yeah, yeah. And we can go to dinner and make out…” – Jess (01:45)
• They talk about how secrecy imposed a layer of "awkward and weirdness," and how being able to exist freely now feels “just great.”
• Jess and Harmel surprised everyone at the reunion by revealing their post-show romance.

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The Love Story in the Pods: Intensity, Culture, and Temptation to Walk Away

• Early Connection: Jess shares that Harmel was her number one from the start, describing their connection as “very intense, very, like, lightning strike.”
  • “I told [Ashley] my life just changed…talking to this man, my life just changed.” – Jess (03:00)
• Jess wasn’t sure if the bond was romantic or platonic at first but knew Harmel was important.
• Harmel discusses the pressures he felt representing Indian and brown communities in reality TV:
  • “Indian people, brown people don’t get very much screen time…my culture, my heritage, my family…those things matter to me.” – Harmel (04:48)
• Harmel explains why he left the pods: he didn’t want to hurt anyone if he wasn’t totally sure, emphasizing that “taking a knee” was sacred and couldn’t be faked.
  • “For me to get on a knee is when the experiment ended. And then everyone else was trying to do the experiment after.” – Harmel (06:47)
• Both reflect on “good guys” sometimes overthinking and hesitating for fear of causing harm, and how Jess instinctively provided Harmel the “out” he needed.

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Keeping Their Relationship Secret

• The Challenge: Jess, being an outwardly affectionate person, found it “really hard” to keep the relationship under wraps. Harmel describes himself as a “rule breaker—for good things.”
• They snuck around, broke a few show rules, and found the thrill in shared secrecy:
  • “People break rules for the wrong reasons…good people don’t break enough rules for kindness and love.” – Harmel (09:39)

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Who is Harmel? Life, Work, and More Than the ‘Hot Doctor’

• Harmel shares his background: grew up in Detroit, went to Duke, works as an ER physician, and is an advocate for mental health and humanizing healthcare workers.
  • “Doctors aren’t just doctors. They’re like, full human beings.” – Harmel (11:27)
• Both joke about Harmel’s love for “flowers, grass, trees…dirt!” (12:31)

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Two Doctors in Love: Does it Make a Difference?

• Surprisingly, neither was initially excited to learn the other was also a doctor—both had vowed never to date another doctor.
  • “When each of us found out the other was also a doctor, we were both like, ah, shit.” – Jess (13:31)
• They attribute their compatibility to seeing medicine as a job, not a defining identity, and share a mutual philosophy of being “just people.”

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After the Experiment: Delayed Romance, Persistent Pursuit

• Harmel recounts being sure Jess wouldn’t leave the show with anyone, only to be shocked she got engaged to someone else.
• He gently tried to reconnect, but Jess thought he was just “being a good friend.”
  • “[She] just keeps trying to make time for me. What a good friend to everyone. What a great man.” – Jess (17:32)
• Eventually, Harmel made his feelings explicit:
  • “Jessica Barry, I would really, really, really like to take you on a date.” – Harmel (18:29)
• Jess initially froze, overwhelmed by the stakes and the timeline (“This is too much”). After wrestling with fear, she texted the next morning: “Ok, but what if I want to be brave?” (22:50)

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Music, Meaning, and Vulnerability in Love

• Harmel creates playlists for Jess; their 'song' is "Go Gently" by Picture This.
  • “Every time I listen to a song, I’m like, oh, that’s about us.” – Harmel (27:57)
• Jess’s song for Harmel is “Easy” by Camila Cabello—sentiment: “You make it seem easy.”
  • “My whole life I felt like I’m so difficult to love…[but] you make it seem easy.” – Jess (30:32)

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Navigating Love, Fame, and Silent Battles

• Both detail how hard it is to watch the show—while fans send an outpouring of support, reliving traumatic on-screen moments is painful.
• Harmel praises Jess for receiving “all the flowers while dealing with all the hard stuff on the back end.” (39:56)
• They emphasize that every member of the cast fights “silent battles” unseen by the audience.

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Representation, Friendships, and Pod Connections

• Harmel’s other pod connections were Bri and Dynasty (“I like women of color. There’s something culturally there for me”), but Jess was always his person. (43:03)
• Jess and Bri became close, eventually laughing about how they’d both been into the same man—without realizing it.
  • Dynasty’s favorite phrase: “same girl, different color.” – Jess (45:28)
• Among the men, Harmel is closest with Connor and Jordan (“Soup nights, letting our dogs hang out.”)

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The Chris Situation: Politics, Breakup, and Aftermath

• Jess is clear: her values and politics are a non-negotiable.
  • “Not supporting human rights was a deal breaker for me. No question.” (50:18)
• She feels Chris agreed with her in the pods but wasn’t forthright about his real positions. Their breakup was precipitated by “spiraling,” and Chris’s behavior at the mixer was worse than she realized until watching the show back (“He said such nasty things about me. That was absolutely just a surprise…” 57:37).
• She describes feeling done “instantaneously” once disrespected:
  • “The moment that somebody treats me with disrespect like that…absolutely not. This is it.” – Jess (56:39)

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Takeaways, Lessons, and Going Forward

• Both say their biggest takeaway is to “trust yourself a little more” and to take leaps of faith.
  • “She was just right there the whole time. What the hell, man?” – Harmel (62:09)
• Harmel believes regrets are good “because next time, you take it seriously.”
• On what’s next, Jess: “I’m not worried about anything…just trying to appreciate each moment and each day and, like, live it to the fullest.” (69:46)
• Harmel: “Treat everything like it’s the last time…If you just make every day really, really good, how do good things not come from that?” (70:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I ran into Ashley, and she was like, what is going on with you right now?...my life just changed.” – Jess (03:00)
• “Indian people, brown people don’t get very much screen time…my culture, my heritage, my family, like, those things matter to me.” – Harmel (04:48)
• “People break rules for the wrong reasons…and then, like, good people don’t break enough rules for kindness and love and that stuff. So, I’m always trying to break rules for good stuff.” – Harmel (09:39)
• “For me to get on a knee is when the experiment ended.” – Harmel (06:47)
• “If you took all my wildest dreams and put them together, it wouldn’t come close.” – Jess (15:48)
• “I tell doctors, good things happen slowly, bad things happen fast…But every once in a while it’s the opposite. Good things can happen fast. That’s what happened.” – Harmel (26:04)
• “You give, like, so many women hope. And you, like, remind us that, like, this is how we should be…And you did on national tv.” – AD to Jess (68:37)
• “You were just right there the whole time.” – Harmel (62:09)
• “She’s strong. She can do her own thing. But I needed the truth to be the thing. I’m living a lie here, and I can’t do this anymore.” – Harmel (22:05)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Theme | Details/Quotes | |:----------:|:---------------------------------------------------------|:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:45 | Relief after reunion | "It's a huge relief, I think, to not have to, like, hide…" – Jess | | 03:00 | Love in the pods – instant connection | Jess runs to Ashley: "My life just changed." | | 04:48 | Harmel on culture and representation | "Indian people, brown people don’t get very much screen time…" – Harmel | | 06:47 | On taking a knee & ending the experiment | "For me, taking a knee is when the experiment ended." – Harmel | | 09:39 | Breaking rules for love | “Good people don’t break enough rules for kindness and love.” – Harmel | | 15:48 | Dream partner | Jess: “If you took all my wildest dreams and put them together, it wouldn’t come close.” | | 22:50 | Jess’s moment of bravery | Jess texts: "What if I want to be brave? Like, what would that look like?" | | 27:57 | The song “Go Gently” | Harmel: “Every time I listen to a song, I’m like, oh, that’s about us.” | | 43:03 | Harmel’s non-Jess pod connections | “My other two connections were actually Bri and Dynasty.” – Harmel | | 50:18 | On not negotiating on human rights in relationships | “Not supporting human rights was a deal breaker for me. No question.” – Jess | | 56:39 | Breakup boundary | “The moment someone treats me with disrespect like that… absolutely not. This is it.” – Jess | | 62:09 | ‘She was right there the whole time’ | Harmel on hindsight and trust | | 67:08 | Harmel’s unplanned reunion speech | “I actually forgot everybody existed for a minute. Like, I was just straight talking to her.” | | 69:47 | On appreciating the present | Jess: “I’m not worried about anything… just trying to appreciate each moment…” | | 70:01 | Harmel on intentional living | “Treat everything like it’s the last time… make every day really, really good.” |

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Tone & Noteworthy Episode Dynamics

• Heartfelt, sincere, insightful. The trio keeps the conversation honest, often emotional, peppered with unfiltered humor.
• Host AD relates as a fellow reality alum, leading to deeper, vulnerable admissions from both guests.
• Jess and Harmel’s dynamic blends “big feels,” grounded realism, and a mission to model love based in respect, transparency, and growth.

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Summary Takeaways (For Newcomers)

• Jess and Harmel’s story is about what happens when reality TV matchmaking gets it wrong, but love gets it right.
• Their bond survived and bloomed through secret meetups, misread signals, and months of persistence.
• Both are thoughtful about identity and representation, and eager to break stereotypes about doctors, love, and men of color on TV.
• Above all, they encourage trusting your instincts, being honest, and celebrating even the quietest victories "because you don’t always get tomorrow to try again."
• The reunion moment—fueled by Harmel’s unscripted, emotional declaration—offers a version of love, vulnerability, and support rarely seen on reality TV.

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▶️ Missed the episode? This summary gives you all the depth, context, and moments that make Jess and Harmel’s journey so special—no reality TV gloss, just real love and real talk.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Let's go.

[A]

From Nintendo and illumination, the Super Mario Bros. Can take care of the kingdom comes a super powered adventure. This Wednesday, pack our things. The galaxy gets even bigger. He knows that's my bike, right?

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

The Super Mario Galaxy movie. Pretty pg. Only in theaters Wednesday. Get tickets now.

[C]

What's the reality? What's the reality? Hello and welcome back to what's the Reality? It's your girl ad. You guys, I have another amazing couple with me today from Love is blind season 10. It may not be the couple that you were expecting, but they're just as lovely as anyone that we could ever have. Please welcome Jessica and Harmel to the podcast.

[B]

Hello.

[C]

Welcome, y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

Thanks for having us.

[C]

You guys are so cheesy and happy.

[A]

I mean, I can't help it.

[C]

Oh, my gosh, you guys. Hi. How are you guys?

[B]

Good. How are you?

[C]

Yeah, I'm good. Thank you guys for stopping by. But before we get into anything, how are you both doing now that the reunion has aired and everything is out in the open?

[B]

It's a huge relief, I think, to not have to, like, hide. Yeah, yeah. And we can go to dinner and make out and.

[C]

How are you feeling?

[A]

I feel good. I think it's, you know, this. It's just there's real stuff happening. Like, this is very real. And to try to follow, like, hey, we can't say this and we can't do that. It has this layer of, like, awkward and weirdness to it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so now being able to just be and exist is like, it's just great.

[C]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah, we're happy.

[C]

So you both kind of surprised everyone at the reunion when you revealed your relationship. Take me back to the beginning. How did this all start? Well, I know how it started.

[B]

Those pods.

[C]

But, like, tell me, what is the T right here?

[A]

Actually, you want to go first?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, please, please. So Harmo and I had a really, really deep connection in the pods. He was actually my number one the whole time. Until he left.

[A]

We can talk about that.

[C]

Put a pin in that, because I want to hear.

[B]

It was very intense, very, like, lightning strike sort of situation. And I was really blown away. I kind of ran out of the pods and went. And I ran into Ashley, and she was like, what is going on with you right now? And I told her my life just changed. Like, I don't know for sure what this is or what's going to happen, but talking to this man, my life just changed. And I knew that he was going to be in my life. I wasn't sure how. I wasn't sure if that was romantic or if I found, like, my new best friend. Turns out it's both. But I was, like, mind blown. I'm a very, very logical, kind of, like, follow the rules type of person. And this did not feel like that at all. So it was very. I wasn't sure what to make of it. And then there came a day where, you know, I walked in, heard his voice, was very excited, and I could tell he was, like, not doing great, that there was something going on. And I immediately wanted him to not be uncomfortable and wanted to figure out what was wrong. And I could tell he kind of just needed an out. And I said, you know, I know we have this deep connection that doesn't have to be romantic. Like, if you. If you want to be friends, that's also totally fine. And you could kind of, like, feel this, like, sigh of. Sigh of relief. And, you know, even at that time, I wasn't really sure what it was about, but I knew that he was important to me, and I didn't want him to be uncomfortable. And so we sat and listened to our music and had still a wonderful date.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I kind of thought, like, well, bitch, you misread the room.

[C]

Oops.

[B]

He's not in love with you.

[A]

She's not. She was on point the entire time.

[B]

She was on point the entire time, apparently, per usual. I didn't know that,

[C]

you know. Go ahead.

[A]

Okay. Well, I mean, just to kind of. My two cents on that. My piece on that. So I. Walking into the show, I feel like I had a different mindset a little bit, where I know that for me, whatever decisions I was gonna make and whoever was gonna reflect, it wasn't just a reflection on me. Like, Indian people, brown people don't get very much screen time when it comes to. I don't even really watch reality tv, but, like, we don't get too much representation. And so my culture, my heritage, my family, like, those things Matter to me. And sometimes, like, we get so excited about the pursuit of something, forget how much more we're carrying. And so I've always had that in the back of my head. And so I wanted to be the best version of myself. I had rules where I was like, I refuse to be involved in something if people are going to get hurt. Like, humans matter to me. Like, loving and care. It's like. It's just, like, matter so much.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, like, one thing I had a hard time with was at first, I was in my element. I loved it. Like, Jess was it like. It was just like every time we walked into a pod date, it was just like, there was moments where we wouldn't even talk and we could just feel just the. Something was happening the whole time. And so she was the only reason I was even holding on and going all toward the end. And then I remember on one morning, this is like. I think good guys over respond to things sometimes. So I remember I had a conversation. We had a morning conversation with all the guys, and Chris, producer Chris came out and was like. Was really putting it on, and in a good way, where he was like, hey, listen, like, if you get on a knee, you are getting married. Take this seriously. And in my mind, I was taking it seriously already. And I was like, I guess I'm not taking it seriously enough.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so it felt like a personal conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm, like, talking to me. I was like. I was doing all right. And so when it started getting very real, I just started realizing for, like, me personally, I was like, if I'm gonna get on a knee, even the idea of getting on a knee is a sacred thing. It's not something I'm gonna take, like, for granted. And so it sounds insane, but, like, for me, taking a knee is when the experiment ended. Like, I. And then everyone else was trying to, like, do the experiment after.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That wasn't what was happening.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

And so for me to get on a knee for Jess and to. For me to say, I like the word love means something to so many different people. And people just start. I'm like, I. When I say that, you got to know. I'm like, we're done here. Like, this is what we're doing.

[C]

This.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so now, all of a sudden, I'm marrying this person with so many other amazing things. And for me to, like, have her feel this way when I'm still not in that space, it's like, that's not something I'm willing to Risk is to like, hurt another human in my pursuit of what I think I want. And so I was very uncomfortable, like walking. And to give Jess a lot of credit that I don't think people. She picked that up very quickly and she, like, gave me the out that I really needed because the thing that I was trying to do was just get out of there. I was like, this is not. I'm not going to be able to be the best version of myself. And I think I'm going to end up causing a lot of harm. And so I ended up leaving. And do I regret it? No, because look at this.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

But yeah, I do. And so, like, just my call to like good guys is like good guys over respond to things. You know, sometimes it's like you're the one who needs to be challenged and put yourself out there and do those. Do those things. And sometimes, like, even your fear of being a bad guy can get in the way of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's definitely something that happened to me when I was on the show.

[C]

Oh, gosh. There's so many things that's like, running through my mind. Okay, one, I want to start a petition to get you guys, like pods shown, Please.

[A]

And please, please, please.

[C]

I want to see it so bad. And then it just cut like nothing else. This is the story. And it cuts to this podcast because I just want to see that story. I want to hear, like, how you guys got here, like through the experiment. And also too, I think it's like really cool that we're getting someone that wasn't technically featured to tell their story. I know a lot of people from a lot of seasons, it's like their dream to be able to tell, like, hey, I also fell in love. And I also. So I think it's so cool that we're getting that perspective from you and that we have like a happy, happy story. I love that. Was it hard keeping you guys relationship a secret for so long before everything aired?

[A]

What do you think?

[B]

Yeah, I am. I mean, I think anybody that's seen the show knows I'm an emoter. And I'm not quiet and I'm not, you know, I'm very. I really, really love my people. And I wanted to. I mean, like, I made a dinner reservation like last month, and then I was like, wait, wait a minute, I can't do that. Like, I want to do things together. I want to introduce each other to ourselves stuff and the stuff that we love. And so it's been. I mean, it's Kind of nice to just, like, be at the house. Not gonna lie. But, yeah, it's. There's so many things that we want to do together, and so now we can. Yay.

[A]

Yeah. I'm Jess and I. For as many things we have in common in, like, the deepest ways, we're very different people, too. I'm a rule breaker.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Like, I.

[B]

Like, I am not.

[A]

We had all these rules, right? We had all these rules, like, hey, you can't do this and you can't do that. And in my mind, I was like, this is such a good thing. I want to, like, create. Like, I just think people break rules for the wrong reasons and, like, to get money and get caught. And then, like, good people don't break enough rules for, like, kindness and love and that stuff. So, like, I'm always trying to break rules for good stuff.

[C]

I love that.

[A]

And so, like, I was like, we always, like. I was like, hey, can we, like, sneak around, do this thing? I'm like, we can go incognito.

[C]

And.

[A]

Yeah, it's just like, these, like, little moments that once we're out there, we're never going to get it again. And it's like, let's just do stuff. And so it's nice being out there, but it was fun. Like, even. Like, even that part of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Keeping it hidden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

An experience that no one's ever really gonna have in life.

[C]

So I can relate to that.

[B]

I was gonna say.

[C]

Yeah. Before Ollie and I, before we got. Got paparazzi, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So famous. And, like, we would be, like, trying to, like, sneak hold each other's hand just like. Or, like, we would go to, like, a mall, and I'd be like, all right. I go, right? You go, yeah. So awkward. Or, like, we would, like, be, like, together, and then somebody be like, oh, my God, Ollie.

[B]

And I'd be like, I had to

[C]

put my hood on. I'm like, sorry. And then they're like, where's Ad? Where's Ad? And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, not over here.

[C]

I would text, like, Paria and be like, hey, sorry, somebody saw us.

[A]

I don't know what to tell you. I'm so sorry. Sweating.

[B]

Yeah, Just hold the pan.

[C]

I'm like, okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But it is not. It's not. It's really hard.

[B]

It's really hard.

[C]

It's really, really hard because you can't. Like you said, you can't even make a reservation. You can't even sit together. Especially, like, I mean, you're so hot. Like, everybody knows exactly who you are. Everyone's like, I know hot doctor is not in the building. She with. I love that. So, Harmel, we sadly didn't get to see a lot of you in the pods. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about you so we can get to know you better?

[A]

Oh, wow. So I grew up in Detroit and Michigan. That's where my parents are at. There for honestly blessing my whole life. And then went down to. I'm a doctor, so I went to med school and then went down to Duke and I was in North Carolina for like 10 years to like do residency. I mean, I work in the ER now. I do a lot of things that kind of changed. My career path is like, I do a lot of like national speaking on like just mental health and wellness and stuff like that. Not just in the healthcare field, but this is something we talk about a lot, is just like doctors aren't just doctors, they're like full human beings. And I think people just. People forget how real humans are when they're in certain spaces. You almost become like a character in some way. And so I do a lot of that, like speaking to students and like reminding them. It's like, yeah, dude, you're more than just the thing that you're doing right now. You're like a whole human and you're like emotions matter and all that kind of stuff. And so that's kind of what I. That's kind of my shtick. And then to bring that back, it's like, I actually. The things that I like the most is just like, like slow moments, being outside. Flowers, grass, trees.

[B]

Dirt.

[A]

Dirt.

[C]

Dirt.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Dirt. It's just like. Wait, pause on this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, no, I just.

[C]

What about dirt? Do we love.

[A]

Oh, no, nothing. It's just like.

[B]

It's just very like earthy.

[C]

Okay. I just like it.

[B]

I'm like, we gotta get to the next thing.

[C]

We have to slow down.

[A]

Let's like, let's enjoy this thing. Let's do that. So that's kind of.

[C]

I guess.

[A]

Yeah. The other stuff is just stuff that I do, but that's the stuff that matters to me.

[B]

So.

[C]

Amazing. So you guys are both doctors. Do you think that's deepened your connection at all?

[B]

I actually. It's funny because we both. I mean, you know how the first day is.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Really rapid fire days. And so before we even. And I think that this reflects kind of who we are too, within, you know, the first five minutes or whatever. I was already like, number one star, star, star, per Connor, like, all of the things on my page about him. And then we got around to like, oh, well, what do you do? And both of us, like, when each of us found out that the other was also a doctor, we were both like, ah, shit. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, very much.

[B]

Cause typically that's not. Like, I was not excited about that. They even asked me, like, in interviewing and everything, would I, you know, date another doctor. And I was like, absolutely not. Either way, it's just hard and it's crazy and like, there's a lot of personality things that often come with that. And I was just not interested in that. And so you could tell we were both, like, disappointed together. We were both doctors. But I think that something that Harmon just said that's really important is like, I think sometimes we forget, like, we're just people and that's just the job that we do. And I think because we both view it that way, it's been something that has just made things easier. Like, I think we understand each other so well. And because we don't let our jobs define us, it works really, really well.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was interesting. As soon as she said she was doctor, I was like, nah, I'm out.

[B]

I was like, never mind.

[A]

I just. I just, like, know so many people. It's hard not to make a certain label your entire personality when it's. It. When everyone keeps telling you it's so important. You know, it's like if you're an athlete, it's like, as you've been told from Jump, that you're really, really good and this is who you are. And then when you lose that, you go existential crisis. And it's like, yeah, do you have to figure your stuff? Same thing with being a doctor. It's like that becomes your thing. It's hard not to lean into that. So I. Personality wise, there's a lot of doctors that are kind of like that. And not that I've been that for a period of time. And so when we got in the pods, like, you know what? There's a bunch of other people. We can figure this. But then, like, it was just. She was very real and it was like, again, I was not. There's so many moments where I just wasn't expecting it to be that thing. And every time I was like, I walked in, it was just that thing.

[C]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

You want to see a girl man

[B]

like this all the time?

[A]

You want to see a girl man cry?

[C]

Yeah, actually, I do.

[B]

Cry. That's why. Oh, you're good. No. When in the reunion. Like, all these wonderful things that he said to me, and I'm sitting next to Emma, who's my girl.

[C]

Chills.

[B]

Chills. She was just like, oh, my gosh. I can't. Like, I can't imagine someone saying that to me. And I was like, this is how he talks to me. Like, this is what he says to me. It just happens to be in front of a bunch of people today, and he's just been. So I tell him all the time, like, if you took all my wildest dreams and put them together, it wouldn't come close.

[C]

No

[A]

pause. Can we take a minute? Yeah. No.

[C]

Oh, my God. Okay. How did this all develop after filming?

[A]

Okay, So I knew what I wanted. And so I remember. I. And this is not.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

I try to speak life, but I remember I was very confident that she wasn't coming out with nobody.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

Very. I was just like, there's, like, cause. And that's.

[C]

Cause you get to know the guys. You're like, there's no way.

[A]

Yeah. Like, they're nice. Everyone's nice.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Everyone's a nice guy. But I was like, dude, her life, who she is, the way she speaks life into things, her. The way she cares about humans, just, like, so much. Like, I sort of. I was like, dude, I don't even know I'm enough for this. You know? It's like. And so I was, like, very confident that, like, hey, she's going to come out, and then I'm going to shoot my shot, and we're going to, like, do this thing. And so she. When I found out she was engaged to anybody, I was just floored. I was shook.

[B]

I didn't think you liked me. So I'm like, all right, I guess travel all night.

[C]

The show must go on.

[A]

And so obviously, that whole thing happened. And at that point, like, I was very unaware of the. Just the extreme nature of that whole thing. And so then there's, like, this washout period. I was like, okay. And then I kept just kind of shooting shots where I was like, hey, how are you doing? Can we hang out? And I just, like, this continued for a long time. And again, to give her credit for how busy and amazing and full her life is. Family, friends, work. Like, gal. Like, she's just doing all the stuff that everybody wants to do, and she's doing it constantly. And so I'm trying to fit into, like, any spot I can get into. Like, I'M I'm like, what are you

[C]

doing at 2:03 on Friday?

[A]

Help me. Like, help me come in over the spot. And it just kept, like, rolling forward and rolling forward and. And then I guess you just kept thinking, I'm trying to be your best, like a homie or something.

[B]

Harmo's so sweet. He just keeps trying to make time for me. He is. What a good friend to everyone. What a great man.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I was like, I thought I was friend zoned months ago.

[A]

I don't friend like that. I don't pursue friend zone friends like that.

[C]

Listen.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think, like, for me, when I'm very focused on something that I want to, like, I'm very persistent about something in gentle ways. Like, not to be, like, too much.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then it started getting to a point where I was like, okay. Like, take a hint. Like, it's okay. Like, you also gotta be respectful for, like, the spaces you're in. Whatever. But we finally ended up. Finally ended up meeting up. We went to, like, a wine bar. And so we were sitting there and I was like, hey, just get in your sweats. We can just hang out. And we don't mind trying. We don't have the biggest thing.

[B]

Magic words to me.

[A]

I was like, get in your sweats. And just after work and you're tired, so let's do that. So we went to the wine bar, and then we spent the first couple hours just talking about, like, her, like, work stuff and, like, all this. And I'm like, I don't. That's not the conversation I'm trying to have right now.

[B]

I didn't know. Just, like, completely unaware.

[A]

And so I. And then I ended up just being like, okay, I just got to tell you, like, hey, Jess, I'm really, really, really into you. Like, I really, really like you. And had, like, this little text message that I hadn't sent up to that point because we finally got to, like, end up hanging out. But I was like, hey, Jessica Barry, I would really, really, really like to take you on a date. And I screenshot of that and showed it. So I'm like, hey, this is how serious I am about this. And I think, like, sometimes I take for granted my focus and, like, how, like, sure I am when I'm doing something, I'm not. Like, I'm not messing around. And so it's like, if this is, like, the first time you're hearing it, it's like, oh, I guess he's just trying to. I'm like, no, dude, I have. Like, I've made my. It's been months of me trying to, like, I've figured this out. I've, like, see how kind you are. I see how you interact with. It's like, this sounds crazy. I'm like, I've already had an entire relationship with you.

[B]

He did say that. I was like, oh, my God.

[A]

And it was really. And it was really, really good.

[B]

And so he's like, it's great. Don't worry. Yeah, well.

[C]

Right, right, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, we already dated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was your reaction when I said that?

[B]

I basically was like, oh, thank you so much. No way.

[C]

I panic. Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

Literally, I was like, no, I can't do that. This is way too much. I don't. I'm totally overwhelmed. Like, this show is going to come out in a few months. So much.

[C]

I need, like, a timeline. When was the. The wine date compared to the ending of your relationship?

[B]

November. Yeah.

[C]

So when did everything with you and Chris and.

[B]

Oh, God, I was like, a year.

[C]

March of that same year.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you guys connected in November.

[B]

Well, we had been. I texted him all the time. Like, we talked all the time.

[C]

Right. Because you thought he was trying to be your best.

[B]

Yeah,

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't really.

[C]

So wait, how long were you in the friend zone?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

A long time.

[A]

A long time.

[B]

I think many months.

[A]

A long time, I think.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Interesting. Yeah.

[B]

He just was like, look, I. You know, I know who I am. I know what I want. It's you. And I was like, holy. I had no idea. And I also knew, like, ad. When I tell you in the pods, the way that I felt, I've never felt anything like that. And so I was like, I can't just mess around with. Yeah, yeah, I know. If we. And I said to him, I'm not just going to, like, go on a few dates with you and see what happens.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

If I'm going to do this, like, we're going to do this. And I know that. And so I can't be messing around with this. Like, I was like, I need. I can't. And he was so, like, kind and respectful and was like, I totally get it. Like, let me give you your space. Whatever you need. And I continued to just like, yeah.

[A]

She kept his text. Hey, let's be friends for a while. I'm like, okay, cool. And so she would just keep texting like a. It's like 40 times a day. We just keep texting. And I was like, do you think I text my friends like this?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Like, if they're going through an extremist situation, I'll be there for you. I'm doing every single day. And so I tried. Like, I'm a big truth teller. It's like, I don't. I can't not do the truth. Like, when there's, like, this, like, underlying, like, lie that I read. I can't.

[C]

I can't. Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I think people are comfortable. I'm like, I can't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so for a period of time, I was like, I'm good. Let's do this friend thing. But then at the end of every day, at the end of every other day, and it would get shorter and shorter. I'm like, this isn't friends. Like, I'd be like, I'm putting so much into this. And. And then we had this very real conversation where I was like, hey, I have to be completely honest with you. This is what. This means everything to me.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

I was like, I can't be friends. But there's something. There's something to like, I'm gonna cry.

[C]

Why am I getting emotional?

[A]

Because it matters, man. It all matters. I think these things happen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

People don't feel. Don't take these things seriously.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All the little stuff matters.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's like, I have to be honest with you. I can't be friends with you anymore. And then I think this is where guys get, like, annoyingly persistent sometimes, where it's like when someone asks you if a girl asks you, like, hey, I need my space. I do want to be friends. Don't be this, like, oh, I'm a knight in shining armor. Save you, whatever. No, dude. Like, she's strong. She can do her own thing. But, like, I needed the truth to be the thing. I'm like, I'm living a lie here, and I can't do this anymore. And so I fully respect if you need the space to, like, take care of everything that's about to come out, all that kind of stuff, you have a full life. And so that is gonna be me being a fan and from a distance, but, like, I can't keep burning myself doing this thing. And so we texted, and then I was like, okay.

[B]

Like, fine, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then I spiraled for, like, 12 hours.

[C]

Really?

[B]

And then I texted him the next morning and was like, ok, but what if I want to be brave? Like, what would that look like?

[C]

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[A]

Everyone calm down. The Super Mario Brothers can take care of the kingdom.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

This Wednesday.

[B]

Toad pack our things.

[A]

The galaxy.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Is waiting.

[C]

Who is this?

[B]

Yoshi.

[C]

So some cool dinosaur just shows up

[A]

and he's now part of the group.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

The Super Mario Galaxy movie. Pretty pg. Only in theaters Wednesday. Get tickets now. And then it started and it went very, very, very quickly in, like, the safest, cleanest way possible. You know, like, sometimes you get swept up in something. You're like, oh, my God, this is all like rose colored glasses and it's all whatever. But it's like I just knew who she was to her core. And I felt like she felt the same way. And so I think if you can create a. I always say, I'll tell this like doctors and like, residents. It's like, good things happen slowly, bad things happen fast, right? Like, you get hurt fast and the recovery is slow, but every once in a while, it's the opposite. God, guys, good things can happen fast. That's what happened.

[C]

Wow. No, this is like one of the most beautiful, like, interviews I've done in a very long time. Because it's like, you guys, the way you speak about each other and the way you speak about this relationship is so beautiful. And it's so obvious how real and how much you both needed this. And I think it's so cool how the experiment kind of worked in reverse. Like, you still got to know each other sight unseen through a wall and fall in love with each other. Like, you know, your real hearts and your true personalities and characteristics and stuff. And now, like, you get to, like, live outside of those walls with your own rules and your own, like, go about it your own way. And I think that's so, so dope.

[A]

That's very cool.

[C]

So very, very grateful. Are you about to cry?

[B]

No.

[C]

Yes, you are. Before you cry, Carmel, I heard that you're very passionate about music.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

What's a song that pops into your head when you think of Jessica?

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so immediately it's like, there's so. I have a playlist of songs to send Jess.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Like, every time I think of something.

[C]

Of course you do.

[A]

I do. It's just like every time there's a. This is the thing about me, it's like, oh, I can't help but associate things with people. And it's just like when you're the only thing that's running through your head for so long, it's like every time you listen to a Song you're like, oh, that's about us.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think one song that you sent me that is, like, on top of the list now and is now, like, the one of so many. But who's the artist? Is Go Slowly or Go Gently? Go Gently.

[B]

Go Gently.

[A]

Go Gently. I'm forgetting the artist's name.

[B]

They're Irish.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I want to hear it.

[B]

It is so beautiful.

[A]

I will say. Yeah, I'll tell. If you want me to just absolutely start sobbing if you play that. Yeah. Okay. Well, all right, chill, chill, chill. Let me.

[C]

No, who's it by?

[A]

Oh, this. I think the song is Go Gently by. Picture this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's an Irish band, I believe. And it's such a beautiful song.

[A]

She sent it to me, and this is one of our. This is, like, right before I was like, hey, we can just be friends. And, like, we. Like, that's just too much. Is. Yeah. She sent me that song.

[C]

Oh, gosh, you guys.

[A]

And it started playing, and I remember, like, I had to pause it, like, five seconds. I'm like, I can't, because it just started so good. And I was like, it's already associating her with it. And I was like, I don't know if you know what this is doing to me. And so I was like, all right, just like, pause it. You can listen to it again later. 10 minutes goes by. Try it again. I couldn't do it again.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And so that's when I was like, hey, I have to be honest about, like, all of this. And so that's when I. So that's like, there's so many of our songs, but, like, that's probably the first one that comes up is the one that you sent me. And now we were grabbing. Oh, my God. I can't stop talking.

[C]

It's okay.

[A]

We had dinner. Like, we were grabbing dinner at her place, and it was, like, takeout. And we're sitting there, and I have, like. I have that on playlist. It's like a stargazing playlist. It's like a thousand songs on it, and it's, like, shuffling, and then it just, like, comes on. I just couldn't stop. Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was like, dude, can you just eat your food? I was like. I was like, I feel like people are just, like, waiting for moments like this, just, like, so present. And I'm like, what do you want me to eat now? Just put food in there. And I was like, I don't want to. And so we just didn't eat and we just, like, stared at each other for, like, 10 minutes, just, like, sobbing.

[C]

No,

[B]

I'm gonna listen to that song

[C]

on the ride home.

[B]

It's so beautiful.

[A]

It's a really. It's a really good song. It's a really good song.

[C]

What is your song for harmful?

[B]

The same. But he sent me a song, actually. I found out later that it was on his playlist. It was part of his. Part of his, like, Silent Disco playlist by Camilla Cabello.

[A]

Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's just called Easy by Camilla Cabello. It's essentially like, I. My whole life, I felt like I'm so difficult to love. Like, I feel like I'm so much. And there's so many things wrong with me, and who's ever gonna want to deal with all of this? And she says, but, like, you. You make it seem easy. And so I think of that a lot. He sent that to me a really long time ago, and I've since learned it and sang it 8 million times in the shower. It's just. It's really beautiful.

[C]

Yeah, that is beautiful. Especially, like, given all the context of everything that you just went through. Like, what girl doesn't want to feel like she's enough?

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know?

[B]

Right. And it's rare that we do.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, before I start crying. So since you're both doctors and harmful, you work in the er, I have to ask, what are your thoughts on that show, the Pit? Are you watching it?

[A]

The Pit? I actually haven't seen the Pit, and there's a reason I haven't seen the Pit is because there's a lot of people that talk about that are in healthcare. They're like. It's way too real.

[C]

Oh, it's like.

[A]

That's what I keep watched.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's like. It's like it brings. It's like the nuance of it and, like, the situations are very much like. And it's almost like you're at work again. And so I keep getting that feedback from people. I'm like, hey, not to be careful watching it, but to be like, listen, man, if you. But I've heard really, really good things about it. It's on the to do list. I think we should probably just watch it together.

[B]

I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot. There's kind of like a storyline of, like, Covid ptsd, and it just, like, hits a little too close to home for me, so.

[C]

Might be on your skip list.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. But I've heard it's Incredible.

[C]

Yeah, I've heard. I've heard some things. I haven't seen it either, but I just figured maybe if you raved about it, I would turn it on.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Nah, that's what I mean. I mean, I heard it. Everyone else is doing it. Everyone else is doing it, so hers is really good.

[C]

Okay, well, let's talk Love is blind season 10. Let's go back to the beginning. How did each of you end up on the show? Were you recruited? Did you apply?

[A]

Great question.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Well, similar stories, I think, because we both were recruited and both were like, absolutely not. Like, we could never do something like this. Like, this is crazy. And casting's persistent. They sure are.

[C]

They'll show up at your door.

[A]

Very persistent. Yeah. Good for them. They're very persistent.

[B]

Yeah. And so it just kind of kept trucking along, and I don't. I mean, at least for me, like, for myself, I kept thinking, like, there's going to be a. Either they're going to be like, okay, we realize who she is. Like, we're not doing this, or, you know, something is going to get me out of this. I really thought work would say no. I really thought that there was, like, this is never actually going to happen. And it just kept happening. And then suddenly I was on a plane, and here we are locked in a pod.

[C]

Losing your mind.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Very similar story. It's like that, like, I just got this catfishy message on IG and I was like, okay, yeah. And then it was like, hey, have you ever seen, like, have you ever seen Love is Blind? I'm like, actually, that point. To that point, I hadn't.

[B]

I had watched every season.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, gosh. What's your favorite?

[B]

I don't know. I don't think I can pick.

[C]

I can't either. I can tell you what my least favorite is.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Season six. Yeah.

[C]

Throw it in the trash.

[B]

You get it?

[A]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[B]

I know. It's hard to watch.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you both were recruited?

[A]

Yeah, recruited. Very persistent. It was like one phone call turned into another. And I love. I actually love the idea of all of this stuff, like emotions and feelings and that kind of stuff. And so every time they gave me a phone call, it would go, like, hours and just, like, shout out Pedro. He was one of my guys that, like, I'm, like, still friends with him. And, like, we text and we talk all the time. And so one thing got left in another and eventually just ended up there and wild, wild adventure.

[C]

Did not succeed.

[B]

Thank you, Paige.

[A]

Side quest coming.

[C]

Paige and Pedro. Okay, y', all, what was it like dating for both of you in Ohio before Love is Blind?

[B]

I don't. I'm. I've never been, like, a really big dater. Whenever I, like, first got divorced years ago, I kind of made myself get on the apps for. I think it was maybe a month or something and made myself go on a bunch of dates, and it was absolutely the worst experience. I just. I hated it so much. Yeah. I just. Dating is so awkward and not fun, and I would never, like, for the next several years, I never really sought it out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, I would go on some dates here and there. Never, you know, really was in a real serious relationship. I was very much avoidant of dating, I think I would say.

[C]

What about you? Harmful.

[A]

Same. Yeah. I just don't. Dating, to me, there's like. There's all, like, the lead up to it, you know, And I found, like, the thing that I was looking for is, like, some, like, really deep. It's like the stuff in the beginning, I'm like, I don't want to prove all this. I just want to talk about real stuff. And people don't want to meet with, like, real stuff all the time. And, like, there's a difference of being chosen and being met, and I'm, like,

[B]

trying to meet people.

[A]

And it was just. It was just enough that I was like. I think one of the things that gets kind of, like, told very early is that, like, romantic love is this apex level of love and that you can't find love in different spaces. And we get so focused on that that it, like, makes everything, like, less, like, kind of dull.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it, like, for me, it flipped a while ago where I was like, oh, my God. I, like, deeply love my friends and I love humans and, like, my dog and walking around and just in, like, interacting with life and nature and that kind of stuff. And so I had a deep sense of fulfillment there. And so dating, for me was never really on the thing. And that's why when this came up, I was like, all right, let's. Let's give it a shot and see what happens. So very similar. Like, I haven't really dated much.

[C]

I always think it's so funny when people that have never seen love is blind. Go, yeah, I'll try it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you crazy?

[C]

Head first into the most insane experiment known to man, and you're like, good luck. This is not something you just.

[A]

I know, I know.

[C]

So funny to me. When I hear that, you know, they called me and I was like, why not? Next thing you know, I'm in a pod. Like that, to me is like, it's crazy.

[B]

I know. Yeah, I knew exactly like what I was getting into.

[C]

Same, same, same. Yeah. Still play myself. So have y' all been watching the show together? What has that experience been like for you guys?

[B]

Yeah, it's been interesting. I mean, it's. I think it's really, really difficult for, to watch in different ways. The first drop of six episodes, you know, our time came out at 3:00am and so a few of the girls came over and we all basically like made espresso martinis, cuddled on my couch, stayed up and, you know, binged those first six episodes. Oh my gosh.

[C]

Wait, who's your group?

[B]

Amazing. So. Well, I mean, I'm pretty much friends with everyone, but like, my closest friends are Kia, Emma, Brittany. I'm really close with Amber. I mean, we all, we spent a lot of time together.

[C]

It's a good group.

[B]

And they were. Yeah, most of them were there. Rosalyn. And we watched it all together and as we were finishing those six episodes, he was finishing a 24 hour shift and showed up at my door and I was just a wreck. So that was really, really helpful. But it's. Yeah, it's not, it's. It's a hard thing because there's all of this positivity coming my way and like people being so kind and sweet and whatever, but it's like, it's horror. I hate watching it. Like, I hated it. Yeah, it was a. It was one of like the worst things I've ever been through. Like to hear, you know, the worst things that anyone ever said to you, like over and over on loop and be sent like that clip over and over, it's like, like I'm so grateful for where I am now. Thank God I went on the show or I wouldn't have him. I wouldn't know these women. I wouldn't be here with you. But like, it was awful.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's, it's been really, really difficult. Honestly. There's, it's been, I think, an emotional roller coaster for both of us.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know how well I would be doing if it wasn't for harmful. Truly, it's been really hard. Yeah. And I, I love everybody's like support and positivity. It means so much to me, but, you know, it's only because of a shit storm.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To be honest, so it's, it's A double edged sword for sure.

[A]

I think every, like fighting like silent battles that, that people don't know about. You know, people talk about like, like the flowers of like everything that she's got. Like just the. Just like it's amazing. Like everybody knows it, right? But it's like what cemeteries is it built on like, what deep feelings? It's like if the, if the, the tree is high, the roots are deep and it's like nobody ever looks at that and being like, wow, dude. When someone, when something good is happening, it's like, is it really good for that person in that moment or is there like the hard stuff with it? And even talking about like castmates and stuff like that, and for your season and your cast, it's like there's probably stuff that you had to deal with that you'd think like other people in your cast would understand, but they didn't because like your thing was wildly different than the person next to you. And so for anybody, including you, who had to fight any silent battles that didn't like you couldn't talk to anybody because it was so unique. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like I feel like everyone's dealing with that in some way. And so just giving Jess a lot of credit for with Grace taking all the flowers while she was dealing with all the hard stuff on the back end. We were dealing with that together. But like just a lot, like a lot of pride in her being able to do that.

[C]

And I mean, speaking of, the Internet loves you, the people.

[B]

I don't know why.

[C]

What do you think?

[A]

I don't know why she keeps saying that.

[C]

I don't understand, like, despite like the, the shit show of that human, like you alone are just an amazing, charismatic human and you deserve your flowers. It's like outside of that, you are a beautiful, lovely, amazing, amazing woman. Thank you so much. So I never want you to forget that. Like, that's why, that's why people love you. Not because someone talk shit or talk down on you. Like, it's because you're a great person and a beautiful human.

[B]

That means a lot.

[C]

Just to clarify that, Harmel, we didn't get to see a lot of your journey on the show. Who were your other connections in the pods? April 15th is coming up fast. And if you haven't filed your taxes yet, you know, the stress hits differently this close to the deadline. But here's the thing. You can hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today with Intuit. TurboTax expert, full service. You're matched with A dedicated expert who understands your specific tax situation and can do your taxes for you from start to finish. Online or in person at one of their new tech enabled store locations. Have your tax forms directly imported into the app and hand it all off to your expert and they will work tirelessly to get you every dollar you deserve. Meanwhile, you can go about your normal routine, giving you time back to catch up on reality shows, hit the gym or finally go on your honeymoon. No more squeezing into someone else's schedule or chasing updates. Don't wait. Visit TurboTax.com and hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

let's talk about it.

[A]

Let's talk about that. So honestly, so truth. I like when I was there, I think the reason I felt very much in my element early was because everything felt like friend vibes to me. Like I actually didn't have a hard time connecting with people out of the guys. Like I'm like friends with almost all like all the guys and like would I talk to them constantly. We're always like like people want to shoot content, like let's do this, let's do that and like you know, hard conversations. We're sitting there having those conversations together. So I felt like connect with the guys. Same thing with the, with the women. Like just regardless of, you know, if there's, if it's a match or not, it's like these are phenomenal. Look at the cast.

[B]

This is insane.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like they're all accomplished.

[B]

Especially the women.

[C]

Yeah, the women are like it's always the women. Always the women. We eat all the time.

[A]

Yeah, truly, truly. And so, so like I had, I did not have a hard time having those conversations and, like, connecting from, like, a friend's perspective. And so. So outside of. Other than Jess, it was all just, like, conversations of, like, you know, friendly kind of vibe and, like, could something work? Maybe. But Jess was, like, just my person the entire time. But my other two connections were actually Bri and Dynasty. And for me, Bree Thomas and Dynasty. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And that was another thing in the back of my head, I'm like, I just. It was just, like, a thing in my head where I was like, I think I want. I like women of color. That's like, culturally, there's something there. And so in such a short period of time, how can I have a conversation with somebody to let them know, like, hey, here's all the things that are different walking in this life than something else. And so those are, like, the people that I'd kind of gone through with. Didn't really get much of a connection there other than Jess. And then just to give so much credit on that side of things, I admire a lot of things about you. You being friends with, like, Britney and Kia and seeing how much like you. It's like just water and water. It's like oil and oil, and it just works. And I don't think I ever told you that. That means so much to me, watching how easily you embrace and are embraced by women of color. Like, that's like, a big thing for me. And I, like, I love that about you. And so, yeah, thank you. That was.

[C]

And thank you guys for watching another episode.

[B]

We're gonna end it right here.

[C]

What?

[B]

Well, in Bri, Bri and Dynasty, while you didn't get to see much of them, are two girls that I love, like, deeply and relate to deeply. And so I remember, you know, like, once I finally figured it out, Bri Thomas and I were, like, inseparable in women's quarters. And we were talking about the same man to each other for days and days and didn't know it because we were two of the girls that, like, didn't say names.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just remember being so flattered to be like, I'm not going to feel any kind of way about. Those are my girls. But, like, to be, like. To be in that company, like, I just really love Bri, and I really love Dynasty. And so Dynasty always says, same girl, different color.

[C]

I know that's right. And you know what's crazy? When Kia and Tyler were here, those are two names that kept coming up as well, were Bri Thomas, Brie Thomas, and Dynasty.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Okay. I need to meet them.

[B]

You. I was gonna say, yeah. I need to meet them to have them come.

[C]

Those names kept coming up.

[B]

They are so wonderful, so fun, so funny. You'll love them. Okay, have them come. Let's go, girls. I love that.

[C]

I love that.

[B]

Okay, well, what about for the guys?

[C]

Who were you closest to as far as the guys?

[A]

Okay, so Connor, for sure. Connor and I are homies. I think the way I love Connor, he's like. He's, like, just a good guy. And the way, like. Like, we had a conversation, I was like, hey, man. I think the reason I get so along with you, because our lives are very different. It's like, if we grew up in the exact same place and had the exact same lives, we would have been homies all the way through, and we would have ended up. We just were different places and worked different lives. So. He's such a good, good guy.

[C]

I met Connor. He's really sweet.

[A]

Such a good dude. And so Connor's, like, easily my. Like, probably one of my best friends out of the pods. Jordan. You know, Jordan, I get along really, really well. We hang out a lot. We just had, like, a. We made soup and let our dogs hang out and stuff like that. And that's when I told.

[B]

Soup?

[A]

Yeah, we made soup together.

[B]

Who is this man?

[C]

You think your man's cheating?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. My boy making soup. What did you think was happening? Hell, no, I'm making soup. No, you can't have none.

[C]

So epic. I love that.

[A]

Connor and Jordan. But, like, again, there's so many like. Like. Like, people that didn't get much, like, you know, screen time. Like, Brent is amazing. Tyler, he's amazing. There's, like, so many good guys on the cast that I'm, like, friends with.

[C]

Yeah. What were your experiences like with Chris in the man's lounge? Like, did you talk much?

[A]

Honestly, tell the truth? Not really. And this is the. This is to give, like, women a little bit of credit about how, like, I hate to say the word duped. Like, duped is a strong word. It's like, I think, like, I didn't get much out of, you know, Chris in, like, a. Like, a sinister or bad vibe, you know, which is where this. Okay. I'm. Men with insecurities are, like. Can be very dangerous, and they don't. They're not aware of it. Yeah. And I speak on myself about that, you know, that's why I'm very hard on myself about, like, my insecurities and making sure they're not either coming out in friendships, relationships, whatever. It's like, you gotta look at yourself in the mirror. I'm like, hey, like, maybe you're not all that. Maybe there are things that you're, like, holding on to inside. And then all of a sudden, when something comes and challenges you, you want to destroy that thing to save yourself. And if you're not aware of it, it comes out in certain ways. So I don't want to be the one who's maligning, like, Chris right now, because, like, enough people have done that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think he was someone who has a lot of work to do, and it wasn't very apparent when you're just hanging out with guys.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And so another thing. When a girl tells you something bad's happening, kind of just believe him. Yeah. Because, like, I'm, like, dumb. A locker room guy. I've been a locker room guy my whole life. I know a lot of good dudes. And sometimes when I see. I'm like, wait, wait a minute. You're capable of that. I didn't know that. You're so good to me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, yeah, I don't think I had. I have nothing bad to say about Chris. In my relationship with him, it was very kind of neutral when we weren't, like, best friends or anything like that. But, yeah, he didn't run into. I didn't run into problems with him.

[C]

What was it like watching Chris and Jessica on the show?

[A]

Oh, terrible. Yeah, it's terrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like how? I think there's supposed to be some version of this. I'm supposed to be like, oh, yeah. It's like, oh, my God. Like, I'm, like, cool with it and everything. No, that sucks. Like, that's the woman I love. And watching a decision that I made lead to this other thing. It's like, it's very difficult to watch. I don't. I don't enjoy it, and I don't envy that. I don't want to put anybody else in that position, you know? But again, feelings and purpose. So I think sometimes you want to accomplish something really, really bad. And when your feelings are in line with the purpose, like, nirvana, keep doing your thing. But sometimes your feelings get in the way, and you have to remember what you really want.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so this is what I really wanted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so even if it's hard, like, you're gonna get through it, and there's gonna be, like, better days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so talking about, like, silent battle and stuff like that, like, she's helped me out with that so much, you know, giving me reassurance. Like, I've put my insecurities and my vulnerabilities on the table, and we're always just meeting each other, like, constantly. I think the best relationships happen when you get to the edge of the word that you want to say and you're afraid of it. Like, I wonder what this person's gonna think when I say the thing. And we've just created a space for each other where, like, is she. I'm like. I'm like, let's get there. Like, just say the thing that's making you uncomfortable. And then when you realize that you never have to be afraid to say the thing, the release of being like, wow, I can actually just be. And so, yeah, we help each other out with that.

[C]

So, Jessica, do you like Jessica or Jess?

[B]

Either.

[C]

I think Jessica is so chic. So, Jessica, let's talk a little bit about your experience on the show. We saw a little bit of your conversation about politics in Mexico, but now it's come out that Chris might have of different views. Why do you think he wasn't fully honest about that?

[B]

I think that a. I made it very clear up front with everyone exactly where I stood. And the fact that, you know, not supporting human rights was a deal breaker for me. No question. And I think that in situations like that, often people will be very cautious with how they word things to maybe not let you know exactly where they stand. I. I mean, I specifically asked everyone, like, did you vote for Trump? Because if so, I can't be with you, and I can have a respectful conversation about it. I can treat you like a human being because you are, but I'm not gonna lay in bed next to you every night. I need to know that the things that matter deeply to me matter to you just as much. I was essentially, you know, given a mirror back. Everything that I said that was important to me was, you know, a resounding agreement. Absolutely. Of course. Of course. Of course. And that seemed very clear in the moment. I want to be very clear that I don't. I'm not saying that, you know, he lied about who he voted for or what he believes, but he essentially just agreed with and. Or repeated whatever I was saying to the point that I thought that that was what he believed as well. I spent a ton of time talking about politics and human rights and equality,

[C]

and how did so much of that get cut out?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Like, everyone is saying that.

[B]

I know.

[C]

So weird.

[B]

It was. It's so important to me. And it's so. It's such a huge part of my life. And obviously Hartmore and I talked about it and really aligned with everything. I think that it is so divisive right now. And I think that it's very easy to not have a conversation. I think it's very easy to say, okay, you don't agree with me, you're a monster, and not even talk about it. And I think that's fair. I don't think that anybody energy wise needs to do that right now. It felt like this was an opportunity in a space where, you know, these are probably people that I maybe wouldn't speak to. I had some really great conversations with people that I completely disagree with.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were very respectful of each other and we talked about our whys. And I think that one of the most important things to me is just that at the end of the day we all have different priorities. Human beings and how they're treated and them being safe is always going to be my number one priority.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

There is nothing that's even going to come close to that. There is no issue or combination of issues that is ever going to touch that for me. I'm not telling everybody that they have to feel the same way. But if you're going to be in my bed, you better. Right. Period.

[C]

I mean, I'm never really lost for words, but I like that I need that on a T shirt.

[B]

I need that on a shirt. Cuz.

[C]

What are we talking about exactly? What are we actually talking about?

[B]

I love that it's very simple.

[C]

Do you think things would have changed if he was honest with you from the start? Things would be different.

[B]

Oh yeah. We wouldn't have dated.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was very clear about that. And like I said, had very respectful conversations with people that I disagreed with. Said, I'd love to buy you a beer once we're at the bar, but this is not ever going to be a romantic thing. And it would have been very easy for me to do that.

[C]

Yeah. So back in Ohio, same, like things seem to be going pretty well until you saw each other's places. What happened in the days leading up to your breakup conversation?

[B]

So we, we were really only home 3, 4 days by the time we had that conversation on the couch. We got back, we had a date to kind of like move in to the apartment and then we saw each other's places on a Sunday. Everything seemed okay. I thought he was a little weird, but. Sorry. I don't know what else to say. That he was acting a Little weird. But again, you're. You know how it is. You're exhausted. There's so much going on. It's chaotic. I. I wasn't that worried about it. And then he's like, I'm gonna go back to my place tonight. And I was like, great. I was so excited to be home. Like, I was like, my. Gonna have my parents bring my dogs. I was really pumped. Like, I didn't think anything of that. And then we were scheduled to film Tuesday afternoon, Tuesday evening, and I was going back to work Monday morning, so I was, like, very much in that mindset. And then Monday, Tuesday, I. I don't know, maybe sent a collective of, like, five texts total. Just very much spread out. I think maybe he responded once. It was just very bizarre. And I didn't really know what was going on. I remember getting a hold of production and saying, like, is he even coming to filming? Because I. I haven't heard from him. Like, I don't know where he is. I don't know what the situation is. And so when I showed up and they mic'd me up downstairs, I knew it was gonna be not good. And so I walked in and he was like, out in this, like, little patio area and came in and, like, y' all saw how it went down. It was. There wasn't, like, anything before that. The conversation was much longer in real life. And it was. A lot of the way that it was cut together made it seem a lot more coherent than it was at the time. It was very. It felt like a spiral. Like, it felt like kind of like grasping for straws. I'm uncomfortable. I don't know what to do. And it was a lot of unrelated things. Like, at one point, he was like, and you're just so liberal. And I was like, wait, what does that have to do with anything? Aren't you too. Like, didn't we talk about that? Like, what is going on? I was so confused.

[C]

And you're just so liberal.

[B]

And he's like, yes, and yes. And I was what? And it just. All over the place. And then it was like he finally, like, honed in on what he actually wanted to say, I guess. And I was just. Couldn't believe it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But it was very quick for me. I mean, don't. The moment that somebody treats me with disrespect like that. I've been through too much of my life. I'm old enough. I know. I know my worth. And I know nobody's going to talk to me like that. That you can Say your piece, and I will happily sit there and listen. But I was done instantaneously. And I think that's part of. Because people keep asking, like, how are you? So calm? How are you? It was. There was no more working in my brain, and so it didn't matter. I was just like, absolutely not. This is it.

[C]

Yeah, girl. Because I would have been throwing hands. I'd have been like, hold on. I know it.

[B]

I don't. And you have to know that was happening in here. Like, you have to have to know that. But it was like, you're not getting my energy. You don't get any bit of this. And I think he would have felt a lot better walking away had I freaked out.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I wasn't even going to give him.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you think of Chris's behavior at the POD mixer? Were you surprised to see him act that way?

[B]

I was shocked, honestly, like, just being honest, because obviously all I saw was the conversation that we had together. I had no idea what was said at the mixer. I had no idea how bad it was. I knew that he was, you know, in a really uncomfortable place and was not behaving great. I had no idea. He said, like, such nasty things about me. And that was absolutely just a surprise when I watched the episode. So, yeah, that was. I mean, it was awful. It was terrible. I'm so glad that I was already completely, like, like, done with him in that moment. But, yeah, I don't. I don't know what the goal was. I don't know what was happening there.

[C]

No one does.

[B]

I know.

[C]

No one has any clue what the hell that was.

[B]

I know.

[C]

And, I mean, I was watching it with Ollie, and he was like, the nerve of this man. Like, he was so disgusted. Like, so, like, we were just mortified. But, like. And he doesn't really get wrapped in it, like, TV and, like, you know, drama and stuff.

[B]

Stuff.

[C]

Granted, he's been on the show.

[B]

I was gonna say, that's ironic, girl.

[C]

You'd be surprised how much he does not care. So when he was like, I'm sure. No, you guys would. You guys would. 100. And the fact that he was like, wait a minute, like, he paused the

[A]

tv, he's like, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I was like, I know, honey. I know, I know. So, I mean, we were all, I think, lost and confused because what the actual hell? What were your thoughts on Chris and Bri's conversation that night?

[B]

It's. I knew that it was going on, obviously. I knew they were talking. I was over with Connor actually, like, hey, dude, what's going on? Because I was like, this has to make him uncomfortable. And I. I guess I didn't know how badly Chris was spiraling. And I do think that's what it is. Like, let's just throw that out there. He said horrible shit. I don't condone that in any way, but, like, we've all had low points. Unfortunately, his is on camera. I think that there has to be. There has to be a little bit of grace, because it is. It's a pressure cooker. It is a completely unnatural situation. And I think, you know, it's very easy to say, well, in. In that situation, I would have done this or I would have done that. It's not a normal situation. And so I know breezy, you know, later was basically like, I didn't show up the way for you that I wish I would have. And that meant a lot to me. But I also understand being in that situation is not easy.

[C]

Yeah. Was the mixer the last time you spoke to Chris before the reunion?

[B]

He called me the next day after the mixer, like, really, I think, really realizing what he had done. And I spoke to him for a short period of time and, you know, said, this isn't gonna make you feel better, if that's what you're looking for.

[C]

Yeah. What was he kind of saying?

[B]

Just that he did it. Like, he really messed up and it was gonna be really bad for him and everyone's gonna come after him and all these things. And I kind of said. Said probably, yeah. And again, I didn't even know at that point what he had said.

[C]

Like, so wait, so he was, like, sober enough to know, I guess, or at least, but, like, drunk enough to, like.

[B]

I'm so confused. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I think that was a really, really, really low point for him. And he was panicking and didn't know what to do. And I basically said, look, I don't. I'm not gonna talk to you again after this, but I'm happy to, you know, if there's anything you need to say, that's fine. And, you know, I didn't. I just wanted to let him know that I was not there to comfort him based on his own actions.

[C]

Call somebody else, basically.

[B]

Call somebody else.

[C]

Gotcha. Looking back on your experience, is there anything you would have done differently?

[B]

Everything. It's hard for me to say that. It is hard for me to say that because this has been such a beautiful journey and I'm like, have everything that I've ever wanted now. So it's hard for me to say would I change it? But, like, if I'm being honest, like, if. If there was any way that I could just go back and it could have just been us to begin with, it's too hard to say no to that.

[C]

Yeah. What would you say is your biggest takeaway from your experience on Love is Blind.

[B]

Trust myself a little bit more and to continue to show up for myself.

[C]

Yeah, you did show up for yourself very beautifully.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

You really, truly did.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Do you have a takeaway from your time on the show?

[A]

I think it's the same thing. It's just like, to trust yourself a little bit more, to allow good things to happen when it's like, right in front of man, dude, she was just right there. She was just right there.

[B]

He'll be in the middle of a story and just say that to me.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You were right there.

[A]

You were just right there the whole time. Yeah. We'll be just hanging out, eating dinner. I'm like, you were there the whole time. What the hell, man? And then you look back and it's just so obvious. And so just like, take the leap of faith. Just whatever it is, just take the leap of faith. Like, it's good things. Good things are on the other side of it. And again, this is all amazing, and I love it, but I think regrets are a good thing. It's like, because the next time it comes around, you take it seriously. So. Yeah, I wish I'd walked through that door. That's what I wish I had done.

[C]

But now we're here.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Let's talk love is blind season 10 reunion.

[A]

All right. All right.

[C]

How did you guys both feel going into that day?

[B]

It was nerve wracking. I think we. We are both, unless it's not obvious. We are both big feelers. And I think a lot of the hard stuff for us recently has been like, these are our friends and they've just been through some awful stuff. And knowing everything that has transpired and how all these people are feeling, how that. How that's going to affect them and how they're going to feel like, poor Amber, like, feeling like crap. Like, that broke my heart. Like, that was one of the hardest moments for me. And it's just, you. These are our people, and we love them so much. And, like, we don't want them to hurt and we don't want them to be embarrassed, and we don't want any of that. So That I think there was a lot of trepidation from that standpoint. And also just, like, not being able to, like, be together, that was killing me a little bit. But, yeah, it was. It was daunting for, I think, those reasons.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's just a very real thing. There's, like, real humans, and they're just not characters. And so, like, in my mind, I wasn't there for the pomp. Circumstance fanfare. I was very focused. I was like, I have a. I have a list of people that I need to take care of. Jess is on top of it. I don't care what happens. Like, she's the person I'm going to take care of. I don't know what that looks like, but I'm going to do it. And then after that, it was everyone else, like, Connor and Jordan and Amber. And I just. Like, the thing I admire most about Jess and us in this relationship is, like, we're constantly making sure everyone else is doing okay, too. Like, we create a really good community. And so being there, I think that was our, again, like, a great word trepidation walking in, being like, okay, there's real humans involved in this and making sure that they're doing okay the best that you can. So I think that was both of our focus, walking into it.

[C]

It is so weird because, like, you know, your experience, and then the show comes out, and then the Internet tears everyone to shreds. It doesn't matter if you're, like, the sweetheart of the show or the villain. Like, everyone is getting torn apart. And so you get there and you're like, like, damn. Like, I don't want you to. I don't want that for you. Like, I don't want that for you.

[B]

It's so weird. I don't feel good when I see all these nasty things. People think that, like, that would make me feel good. I don't. Like, no.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't. Like, these are human beings. And, like, yes, he made terrible decisions. We've all made terrible decisions. But, like, tearing people down is literally what you're mad at him for doing. So don't do it.

[C]

No, I. I can relate to that. Because you don't. You don't want that. You don't want that. You don't want. You don't want to dogpile anyone.

[B]

It'.

[C]

It's very bittersweet because, like, half of you is like, ha, ha, ha.

[B]

That's what you get.

[C]

The other half, you're like, I didn't want a million people to tear you apart.

[A]

That's something I want to give just a lot of credit for. Because there's a lot of feeling of, like, when you are the wounded one and you get this massive power differential, and it's like, now it's on you to forgive and, like, do this thing. But that's never. Has never been. Is never on you to do that. And so the fact that you do that at all is, like, again, a testament to how good of a human you are. It's like, you didn't need to do that. And so, like, I find that remarkable. Cause there's a lot you have every right to. And she's just been neutral at every step. At every step, she's been just neutral. Keeping honest to yourself about being like, yeah, I don't like what happened, but also, I don't need to dogpile on this thing. So just a lot of credit for you.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah, girl. Harmel, you had an amazing speech for Jessica. Were you always planning on saying something?

[A]

No, actually, that was very much like, I wouldn't say. It's ad lib. Those are all the things that I just, like, I feel very in touch with the way I'm feeling in a moment. And I just, like, say things. And so I just knew, like, again, my number one thing was like, hey, I don't care what happens. Like, I just need to be there for you. And then, like, I think they did the whole, like, reveal thing. And up until then, like, Jess has done an entirely amazing job for the entirety of your life just. Just taking care of everybody else. And you just been taking Ls. And so I remember, I think Gigi had the mic, and I was like, you know what? Like, someone's got to give you your flowers. Like, someone's got to come out. As much as you're taking care of everybody else, it's like someone needs to take care of you for once. And I was like, just give me that thing. I'm just gonna tell you what I feel. And so I actually forgot everybody existed for a minute. Like, I was just straight talking to her.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was like, I don't even know what happened. I don't know how long it was. I don't even see. It's like, I don't know what it looks like, but I'm like, that's how I feel. And everybody needs to know that that's who you are. And it's not like, it's also. It's not an opinion. I'm a truth person. I'm not like, this is not my opinion. This is what everybody sees. And I'm just gonna say it to you right now. And so, yeah, that wasn't planned. Again, breaking rules for good things. People break rules for bad things all the time. I'll break a rule for a good thing, anytime. I'll break a rule for a good thing thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're a very good thing.

[C]

So, yeah, I think that just the timing of all of that was so perfect, and it's just, like, you deserved it. And, like, obviously, it was, like, so spur of the moment and so, like, not random, but, like, I didn't expect that. No one did. And I'm just sitting there. I'm like. I'm on the other side of the room, and I just hear this magical voice.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

Like, from the other side, just singing your praises. And I'm watching you, and then I'm looking, and I'm just like, what the hell is actually happening? I'm like, he's about to propose one. I'm like, this is the proposal. This is happening. And then it's just, like, for you to have that moment. And, like, you said to give her her flowers is just. I mean, it was like a fairy tale. It was like, what every girl wants and deserves. And you had that moment, and he gave it to you. And, yeah, I'm crying Hold myself together. But it was just so beautiful. And I was happy that I got to be a part of that, because you deserve that.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah, you deserve that. And you give, like, so many women, hope. And you, like, remind us that, like, this is how we should be talking, spoken to. And there are men that will treat you and see you. And you did on national tv. And you didn't stutter. You just. You said it with your chest.

[A]

Because I meant it. Yeah.

[C]

And it showed. And. Yeah. Well, you guys, before we go, what's next for you two?

[B]

Thursday.

[A]

Thursday. Yes.

[B]

We've been talking a lot about this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because this is also overwhelming and chaotic and crazy. And we are very. Well, especially me. I'm a planner. I like to know what's next. I like to have a plan. And this has kind of put us in a position where a. We don't always know what's next, and we kind of have to lean into that a little bit. But also something that Harm was really, really good at that I'm not good at. I think, in general, as a society we're not good at is, like, being present and, like, actually appreciating the moment. And so I think that we're really trying to do that. Like, I don't. I will say I don't have any. Like, I'm not worried about anything.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I, like, I know what I want and I know that I'm his, like, regardless of what happens. And so I'm just trying to appreciate each moment and each day and, like, live it to the full list.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I'm with that. I think we're always trying to get somewhere. You're always, like, trying to get to something and then life is just happening in between and it's just like, the smallest moments. Like, well, you just take it for granted. It's like, because you think there's a tomorrow. You think, like, things aren't going to change and it doesn't have to be drastic. Someone doesn't have to, like, like, pass away for you, never. It's like things change. Like, it's like you have best friends and then you think you're best friends forever. And then, like, a year goes by, you're like, oh, wow, I don't even talk to that person anymore. And if you knew that was the last time you were going to do something, like. So I just, like, treat everything like it's like the last time. So, yeah, we don't have plans, but, like, if you're just. We just make every day, like, really, really good. And how do good things not come from that? And so that's kind of where we're at. That's how we ended up here.

[C]

So, yeah, I hope, if you guys watch this podcast, I hope they were taking notes because you are the epitome. Literally the epitome. And I don't have men here often, so when they come and they get a mic in front of them, they better speak like you because you just set the precedent.

[B]

Amen. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[C]

Thank you, guys. Thank you very much for coming all the way out to Little LA to hang out with little old me.

[B]

Love you. We're so grateful.

[C]

I'm so grateful for you guys. Are you guys in LA for a while or.

[B]

We're taking a red eye back tonight. Columbus has happened.

[C]

Okay. Well, I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedules f saving lives and loving on people to come hang out with me. You guys are welcome here any, anytime. So thank you so much and thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of what's the Reality? Be sure to follow us on all social platforms hatherealitypod and I will see you next Wednesday. Bye, guys.

[A]

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[C]

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