Perfect Match’s Sandy: BTS Drama & Questioning Intentions

Summary

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What's the Reality? Podcast

Episode Title: Perfect Match’s Sandy: BTS Drama & Questioning Intentions
Host: AD (from Love Is Blind)
Guest: Sandy (from The Ultimatum S3 & Perfect Match)
Date: August 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively, candid, and heartfelt episode, host AD invites recurring guest Sandy for a behind-the-scenes deep dive into her experience on Netflix's Perfect Match following her controversial turn on The Ultimatum. They unpack the complexities of reality TV, relationships, authenticity, the drama that happened off-camera, and the emotional aftermath that followed. The episode balances plenty of reality show “tea” with honest convos about healing, growth, friendship, and moving on from televised romance—plus some hilarious, unfiltered commentary on their castmates. The episode closes with a sweet, impromptu guest appearance by Sandy’s mom, bringing warmth and generational perspective.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up & Relief After Airing (00:39–02:52)

• Adjusting to the show airing: Both express relief that Perfect Match is finally out, as keeping secrets and bracing for public reaction is emotionally taxing.
• Sandy on the difference from Ultimatum: "Ultimatum was really challenging in a lot of ways. It was a lot of, like, hard lessons and just tough moments. And so this quite literally felt like a walk in the park compared to that." [02:07, Sandy]
• Sense of Exhale: “Now that everything is aired, I feel, like, a lot better. I feel like we, like I said, can exhale.” [01:37, AD]

Redemption Arc & Growth (03:05–05:10)

• Feeling redeemed: Sandy shares that Perfect Match allowed her to “get her girls’ girl card back” and show a funnier, lighter, more healed side, compared to the heavy drama of Ultimatum.
• Personal growth: “From when we filmed Ultimatum to when we filmed Perfect Match, there was a year of...healing and therapy,” Sandy recounts, noting growth and learning from her breakup and therapy. [05:10, Sandy]

Being Cast & Pre-Filming Vibes (05:10–09:35)

• Discuss how Netflix approached Sandy, and why she preferred Perfect Match over other dating shows.
• Unique cast dynamics: On Perfect Match everyone could actually socialize and bond from day one, unlike the isolation and competition of Ultimatum.

First Day & First Impressions (09:35–12:47)

• Meeting each other: AD and Sandy reminisce fondly about entering the house together—"That was, like, the moment we just became like—"
• Men in the house: "I thought they were all a bunch of attractive tree trunks." [10:01, Sandy]
• Both women admit initial disappointment until the arrival of Ollie, whom AD immediately gravitated toward.

Matching & Relationship Strategy (12:47–14:07)

• Sandy & Louie's instant connection: Chemistry was apparent, though both “tested the waters”—which they felt actually made their relationship stronger.
• “We were actively, like, choosing each other through it, which was cool.” [13:13, Sandy]

The Boardroom, Jealousy, and Drama (14:07–16:22)

• Alex’s arrival as a test: AD describes fighting to “protect” Sandy in the boardroom, and both reflect on how new arrivals put everyone’s relationships to the test.
• Louie’s enjoyment of Sandy’s jealousy is revealed: "He loved, like, he would literally say, no, I love this. I love watching her get upset. He loved it." [16:03, AD]

Challenges, Mixers & On-Screen Chaos (17:28–21:45)

• The kissing challenge: Produced both humor and real tension. Misidentified kisses and joking about not wanting anyone kissing their love interests.
• Mixers: Highlight the emotional stress of new people entering and the forced socializing ("I don't care, I don't want to have another conversation").
• Living arrangements: Matching means sharing a bed and private space, raising the stakes of “switching matches.”

Exes, Boardrooms & Recycled Drama (22:10–28:10)

• Sandy’s ex Junior joins: Awkwardness ensues as Sandy avoids matching with him, instead setting him up with AD to test her own relationship.
• Intentions and confrontation: Louie openly questions Sandy’s motives for being on another reality show, which makes her emotional—highlighting the double standards within the cast.
  • "Why did that hit so deep? Because the man that's been on 17 reality shows dating shows is questioning my intentions...and I'm, like, literally chatting with guys that walk into the house..." [26:27, Sandy]

Infamous “Guys’ Day” (28:27–33:03)

• Uncensored mixer drama: The girls recall walking into a “cesspool”—an out-of-control make-out session disguised as a party game ("That’s not a dare. That’s not a game.")
• Aftermath: Despite Louie being transparent about what happened, Sandy is hurt and forced to reassess trust.

Final Dates, Endgame & Post-Show Fallout (37:47–44:10)

• Emotional final moments: Louie writes Sandy a heartfelt note, which she recounts as "peak moment" and surprisingly genuine.
• Uncertain future: While they discussed seeing each other in LA, the reality fizzled quickly after filming, particularly after the Cancun group trip.
• "I'm not a girl that's going to, like, chase a man ever." [47:14, Sandy]

Real-Life Love & Castmate Updates (47:39–52:07)

• Louie is seen out with Love Island’s Huda before the Perfect Match finale airs, which Sandy calls “calculated and disrespectful” to the show's integrity and the audience.
• Sandy is now seeing someone new and is “really happy.” She shares the unique challenge of dating post-filming while unable to publicly explain her real relationship timeline.

Superlatives & Cast Reflections (52:08–57:55)

• A playful rapid-fire on who in the cast is best dressed (AD and Sandy), biggest heart (Freddie for the guys, Rachel for the girls), most extra (Sandy), most likely to cry (Rachel and Lucy), start drama (Madison), and more.
• Several not-aired moments and off-camera ordeals are revealed, like medical intervention after a challenge.

Family & Full-Circle Moments (59:43–66:07)

• Surprise appearance: Sandy’s mom, Lori Gallagher, joins briefly, expressing pride and sharing her perspective as a reality TV parent.
• Mother-daughter bonds: Both guests reflect on the importance of maternal support in the reality TV rollercoaster.
• AD’s pregnancy premonition: Sandy correctly “dreamt” about AD’s pregnancy before it was announced.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "With Ultimatum, the premise of the show is so depressing...Literally you’re gonna break up with your person. And be stuck with that weird stranger." [03:09, Sandy]
• "I think you got your girls girl card back." [03:57, AD]
• "Oh, my God. How could you guys do that? We couldn’t even speak to the other women on the show until after we wrapped filming. Whereas Perfect Match, we all were living together, so we all got so close." [06:05, Sandy]
• "I thought they were all a bunch of attractive tree trunks." [10:01, Sandy]
• "Why did that hit so deep? Because the man that's been on 17 reality shows dating shows is questioning my intentions..." [26:27, Sandy]
• "We did it for the plot." [26:10, Sandy, on boardroom decisions]
• "That was just a trip." [18:30, Sandy, after the kissing challenge]
• “I’m not a girl that’s going to, like, chase a man ever. I will just never do that. I’m feminine.” [47:14, Sandy]
• "We date up, honey, not down. Yes." [51:57, Sandy]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39–02:52 – Adjusting after the show, relief post-finale
• 03:05–05:10 – Redemption, growth, therapy year between shows
• 09:35–12:47 – First impressions entering Perfect Match
• 14:07–16:22 – Jealousy, boardroom drama, and relationship tests
• 22:10–28:10 – Ex arrives, more drama, questioning intentions
• 28:27–33:03 – The wild "guy's day" mixer aftermath
• 37:47–44:10 – Emotional finale, post-show life, Cancun trip
• 47:39–52:07 – Louie & Huda, respect and secrets, Sandy's new romance
• 52:08–57:55 – Season superlatives and behind-the-scenes stories
• 59:43–66:07 – Sandy’s mom joins; maternal perspective & appreciation

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode is open-hearted and conversational, mixing humor and offbeat asides with real reflections on growth, regret, and healing. The chemistry between AD and Sandy is sisterly and playful, balancing spicy “reality TV tea” with genuine moments of vulnerability. The surprise appearance from Sandy's mom and the personal anecdotes about motherhood and friendship end the episode on a poignant note.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for Perfect Match, Ultimatum, and general reality dating show fans who want:

• Unfiltered cast insight and off-camera drama
• A nuanced perspective on what it’s like to live and love while the world is watching
• A blend of humor, honesty, and heart that makes the reality TV world feel a little more real

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Transcript

[A]

What's the Reality? What's the Reality, you guys? What's up? It's your girl, Ad. And we are back with another episode of what's the Reality? I have my homie, my A1 from day one. Day one from me, my castmate, Sandy.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

You may remember her from Ultimatum season three. Three.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Three for three.

[A]

Three for three.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And Perfect Match.

[B]

Three for three.

[A]

And she's back. We're back for round two of the Reality.

[B]

I think I'm your first repeat guest, so we love that.

[A]

Okay, so catch me up. What have you been up to since I last had you here on what's the Reality?

[B]

I mean, just living my life, you know, kind of. I mean, it's interesting because last time I was here, it was like, earlier this year, obviously, before Perfect Match came out, but we knew we had already gone through it and we could talk.

[A]

About any of it.

[B]

I know we were, like, trying to speak in code.

[A]

I don't want to talk about Ultimatum, girl. You remember last summer?

[B]

Well, it's interesting, right, because, like, the last six months to a year, I've been kind of, you know, doing all the Ultimatum stuff. And then obviously now it's like Perfect Match, which we've been waiting for. And. Yeah, I mean, it's been fun that it's out now and just kind of dealing with all of that. What, you're not having fun?

[A]

I mean, now that it's all out.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, okay, now I can breathe.

[A]

I can exhale. Yeah.

[B]

Thank God.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How are you feeling?

[A]

Good thing. This is not a show about you interviewing me.

[B]

Well, you don't know.

[A]

No, I'm kidding. I'm good.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

I'm good. Now that everything is aired, I feel, like, a lot better. I feel like we, like I said, can exhale.

[B]

It is a big exhale.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's hard. Kind of like just week by week trying to keep everything and just not.

[A]

Knowing how people are going to react to certain things. And it's like knowing, like, watching and knowing the truth and the reality and being like, well, that didn't happen, or that.

[B]

I mean, but that's just reality tv, you know? It's had my fair share.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So how.

[A]

How are you feeling now that the show is all out?

[B]

I mean, I feel good, honestly. Like, I think this time around has been a really different experience for me, to be honest. Like, Ultimatum was really challenging in a lot of ways. It was a lot of, like, hard lessons and just tough moments. And so this Quite literally felt like a walk in the park compared to that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Just the intensity of everything. It's a lot more light hearted, fun, funny, but still like real genuine emotions and experiences, relationships, everything. So I think there's been a little bit of mixed emotions kind of watching it back and seeing everything, for the most part positive just because it was such a fun experience. I met you guys, like, we had so much fun.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And it was cool just being able to like, relive all those moments.

[A]

So last time you were here, you mentioned that you were having some regrets about the decisions, like some of the decisions and the actions that you made on the Ultimatum.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you feel like the Perfect Match gave you a chance to show us a different side of you?

[B]

I think so. Totally. I think just because, you know, with Ultimatum, like, the premise of the show is so depressing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Literally you're gonna break up with your person. It is literally some stranger.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And be stuck with that weird stranger.

[B]

And then go back and then it's just.

[A]

It is depressing.

[B]

And typically the, you know, people that are doing those shows, like, the relationship.

[A]

Is on the rocks.

[B]

It's already on the rocks. And my relationship was definitely on the rocks. And it's your real relationship. So it's like dealing with that, with the public perception, everything is really challenging. And yeah, I made. Personally, I. There were things that I would have done differently, all of that stuff. And I feel like with Perfect Match, it was. We got to see a different side of me, which was really nice, just not all the drama.

[A]

I think you got your girls girl card back.

[B]

Thank God. Okay, girls girl. That's right. I'm here for the girls.

[A]

They tried to snatch that from me.

[B]

They tried to snatch it, which I don't blame them for some of it. But also I was just kind of involved in some messy drama, so. Which was really unfortunate for me. But I'm actually really glad with just how Perfect Match went. And it's interesting because we filmed Perfect Match before I even saw the Ultimatum. So that was something that was really scary for me. Like just internally, like when I was kind of going through ultimate, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, what happened on Perfect Match? I don't even remember, barely. And you know, I. I didn't get to have those lessons of seeing yourself on tv, even just noticing little things like touching your hair every second that you're like, I can't implement this the next one because we already filmed it. You know what I mean? But I do think that I carried myself really well throughout the show and the experience. And I did have time just to, like, grow and learn. From when we filmed Ultimatum to when we filmed Perfect Match, there was a year of, you know, and I did a lot of, like, healing and therapy, and I was going through my breakup with Nick, and then we came to Perfect Match and I felt like just kind of, you know, a new person, and so it was good.

[A]

How did you get approached for Perfect Match?

[B]

They just approached me. They. They asked me, I got an email to have a. Just kind like a check in call. And they were checking in just to see where I was at with my relationship and Nick and everything. And then, you know, they asked if I was interested in maybe doing another show. And I said, I mean, it depends on the show. And so we kind of just went.

[A]

Through the process and they said, perfect Match. Were you like, immediately yes or immediately no?

[B]

No. I kind of was like, yeah, I'd be down because. Because it seemed like a way more fun show. If they asked me to do, like, Love is Blind, I would say, no, thank you. Absolutely not. But it was just. Yeah, it was just something that I felt, okay. This is like night and day difference from that really heavy, intense experience that I did with Ultimatum. And this is something that could actually be fun. I can meet somebody. I can meet friends. That was something that was really difficult with my first show because we could not be friends with the other girls on the couch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like, that was a big thing. Everyone thinks that the girls are friends. Oh, my God. How could you guys do that? We couldn't even speak to the other women on the show until after we wrapped filming. Whereas Perfect Match, we all were living together, so we all got so close.

[A]

Was there anyone that you were hoping to see at the Perfect Match house?

[B]

Honestly, not really. I had no idea who was gonna be there, because I didn't. I definitely didn't know that they were gonna open it up to outside of Netflix.

[A]

Right. That was a shock.

[B]

Yeah, I really didn't know, though. Yeah, I guess.

[A]

Did you think any of your girls would be there?

[B]

I thought maybe Zayna. I don't know. But yeah.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, you didn't know. But, you know, it's so funny. I always think about the day we walked in together.

[B]

I love that. That was my. One of my favorite moments ever.

[A]

So, like, there is a lot. Let's kind of set the scene up. So we're in Mexico and we're in the hotel for, like, what Three days before we started filming.

[B]

Like, three. Yeah, three. Four days or four days.

[A]

And again, we're just by ourselves with our thoughts, and then one day, they're just like, all right, it's time to go.

[B]

Yeah. They're like, tomorrow morning. Be ready by nine.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Are we doing this?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, did you know that you were gonna start in the house?

[A]

No. I mean, I had an idea.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But whoever.

[B]

So I had no idea. I actually, like, I thought for certain that I wasn't.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because somebody told me that they had gotten a separate call that they were starting in the house.

[A]

Oh, no, I didn't get that call.

[B]

So I didn't get that either. So I was like, okay, so I'm not starting, but I did say, do.

[A]

Not make me a bombshell. Right. I didn't say that because I was like, I'm not stealing anybody's man.

[B]

I don't know. I don't have energy. I didn't want to do that either. That's not like. It's just a tricky situation.

[A]

But you never know.

[B]

We don't have control over.

[A]

You never know.

[B]

And so I actually thought 100% I was going to start as a bombshell.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. And you don't even know. You don't even know what day of the week it is when you're in there. Then you're like, okay, what's going on? And then, you know, the. The producers came to my room, and they're like, okay, so we're starting everything tomorrow morning. Should be ready by seven. And I'm like, does this mean I'm starting in the house? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're starting for. I was like, what?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we're, you know, waiting in the vans for hours. For hours, redoing our makeup 700 times.

[A]

My 12th layer of lip gloss. Literally the 17 in the bag. So then they're like, okay, time to go. And then they, like, line us up outside the villa. But, like, only, like, everyone else is kidding.

[B]

Anybody. They literally make you duck.

[A]

Literally, they would make you duck when.

[B]

Another car was driving by, so you couldn't see when they. Because we really had no idea who was gonna be there. And that also, it helps, you know, set the tone and the excitement.

[A]

So then when you came around the corner, I was like, who is this girl? She's fucking stunning.

[B]

I was like, okay, I know who you are. And I was really excited to see you, because I don't know why. I just wasn't. I guess I didn't really anticipate the other, like, women that were gonna be there. But I saw you, and I was like, oh, my God. Like.

[A]

And what did I say to you?

[B]

You were like, girl, I don't know who you are, but if they're putting me with. If they're putting you with me, I'm excited to see your show. And I was like.

[A]

I literally was like, she must have did something. You must have something.

[B]

I'm excited.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, yep, that's.

[A]

And then that was, like, the moment we just became, like.

[B]

And then we walked in, and that was. That was genuinely one of my favorite moments.

[A]

That was so good. I can, like, the fact that we came in together first and had that moment to just bond and build our friendship. Like, even though it was just like, a quick five minutes before everybody else started rolling and, like, it did set the tone. Yeah, it really did.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And we were like, this is our house. We're not going anywhere.

[B]

The first ladies.

[A]

Yeah, first ladies.

[B]

We're the first ladies. That's right.

[A]

First ladies.

[B]

And we. Well, you went somewhere for a little bit, but that's okay. You came right back. It was still our house.

[A]

It was.

[B]

We're both Scorpios.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You have the 444. I think I had a four for four necklace. I was like, okay, this is meant to be.

[A]

We vibed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I love it immediately. I just love you.

[B]

I love you so much.

[A]

Okay, so what were your honest first impressions of the men on day one?

[B]

I mean, I thought they were all a bunch of attractive tree trunks. That's how I. I was like, these men are huge. Like, I'm like every. You know, I just was like, we're in the forest.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We are exploring the forest and everyone was good looking. I feel like.

[A]

Speaking of tree trunks, like, Clayton with the oranges, he was actually.

[B]

He was literally an orange tree. He was like a big orange tree. Yeah, it just. That was like, my first impression. You know, everyone kind of seems really cute at first before you kind of start talking to them. And then you start talking to them, you're like. You're like, oh, damn. Okay, next. Let's go to the next one. But I definitely. Louie caught my eye. Of course. Daniel caught my eye. He's attractive for sure. I was kind of like, who's Cody? Had no idea. You know.

[A]

I'm not going there.

[B]

You know what I'm talking about. But yeah, I mean, I thought it was like, a good looking group.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. It was interesting, though. I. I wasn't really into any of the. The guys except Louie.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was actually like, so. I'm not gonna lie. I was so deflated until Ollie walked in.

[B]

Yeah. You were like, just like. I kept looking at the door, literally, like, yeah.

[A]

I'm like, I. There's no way. No, there's no way. This is the selection.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he came in the door.

[B]

I was like, thank God.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And you knew right away.

[A]

I was like, where are the grown men?

[B]

And he.

[A]

And then did you see in the edit when it was like, grown men.

[B]

Oh. And he walked in. Incoming, grown men. Incoming hubby.

[A]

I love that I was so underwhelmed.

[B]

I loved watching you guys back. Obviously, you know that I'm, like, your guys's biggest supporter and fan, but it was just really cute to actually see, like, the first conversation you guys had, your guys's first kiss. And, like, I even remember talking to him, you know, because you talk to everybody.

[A]

And he stop. I know.

[B]

And I was like, go get your girl. Go close the deal right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you guys just instantly know, which I love.

[A]

Oh, gosh. Okay. Back to you. So you and Louis seem to connect pretty quickly, and you guys matched the first night. What was it about Lou that caught your attention?

[B]

Honestly, I think it was just more his energy and personality. Like, Louie has a great personality. He's hysterical. He's a lot of fun. Really good energy, like, and I. You know, me, I need somebody that I can, like, banter with, that I can be a little playful with, flirty with. And he was that for sure. But, yeah, I wasn't. I. I just. I wasn't into anyone else, to be honest.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You guys did connect immediately.

[B]

We did, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It was so, like. It was kind of what you were saying about Ali and I. It was so nice to watch you guys.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, it was. Really. Because at first it was like you guys were just, like, playing games and kind of like, yeah, we're open and we're this and we're that. And just, like, as the days went.

[B]

By, it would get more feelings that.

[A]

Were, like, growing, growing, growing.

[B]

I was like, whoa. I know.

[A]

At one point I was like, they can. They could actually win this because you guys were locked in from day one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You both tested the relationship. You guys played the game. Like, you guys were so, like, in it. And I was like, whoa.

[B]

That was like, our strategy. Like, we. A lot of people kind of close things off really early on, and him and I were like, that's, like, silly to do that. Just because we're in this so much. Yeah, yeah. It's like. And also, how do you know if this is, like, your perfect match if you're not actually kind of testing the waters with other people? So that was kind of our. We agreed on that. Which is why, you know, we do seem so open and, like, entertaining other people and whatever. But I think that actually just made us closer deep down, because we were like, okay, no, I want you. We were actively, like, choosing each other through it, which was cool. And I know that you saw the growth of our relationship more than anyone, pretty much. And we don't see it so much, I feel like, on camera, you know, because it does get, like, diluted with everything else, which. That's fine. But, you know, kind of what it was.

[A]

So Alex definitely tested Yalls relationship a little bit. Like, kind of a lot of it. A lot of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But okay. One you saw. I was fighting.

[B]

Yeah. The boardroom.

[A]

In the boardroom.

[B]

I'm glad I saw that back. Because when you came back in the.

[A]

House, I was like, I know you were so mad because I was like.

[B]

I was so relieved that you were going in the boardroom. So I was like, I know my girl's gonna have my back. And I saw what you were doing. You were trying. I tried. And you.

[A]

I tried.

[B]

I'm glad I saw that. And also at the same time, it's like, we're on Perfect Match.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Put him in with the hottest.

[A]

I'm glad she came in.

[B]

Yeah. Let it.

[A]

Because she was a test for Louis, for Ali, and for whoever else would have, you know, like, she totally. I'm glad she came in.

[B]

I support that. To be honest, I probably would have done the same thing if I was in the boardroom, but it was hysterical seeing. Yeah. Actually you and Ollie going at it.

[A]

And just being my.

[B]

Absolutely. I know. It's okay. It's okay. We still made it through.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That was a night, too. That was a night. They cut a lot of that.

[B]

They did cut a lot of it out, which is surprising. Good. Yeah. We'll leave it at that. But, like, I'm surprised because there was more drama.

[A]

That night was so drama filled.

[B]

Yeah. Because it was me and. Yeah, it was me and Louis. And then Rachel and Clayton were going through their thing, and so it was just. I think there was so much drama happening that they could only show so much.

[A]

Take it all out.

[B]

But that was definitely, like. People don't realize how scary it is to, like, have your man go on a date and then come Back with quite literally a bombshell. And then you basically could be on the chopping block and you're like, wait, hold on.

[A]

Any. Any of us.

[B]

Any of us are. But especially when your guy is the one on a date and he's kind of trying to choose.

[A]

Yeah. And the fact that he loves the jealous. Loved it. Like, you guys did not see the. Like, he loved, like, he would literally say, no, I love this. I love watching her get upset. He loved it.

[B]

That is his. His, like, eyes would just light up when I would get a little jealous. And I'm not typically a jealous person, but I will fight for something if I need to. But that was like. He had me fighting for my life out there. We don't really see much sleep by.

[A]

The time y' all actually matched. We matched.

[B]

You guys came out of your room. I remember when we rang her bell, we were like, finally. Yes. Because it was like, I know. And you know what the, the crazy part is? He told me he was never going to match with Alex. The whole time, he literally told me that he was like, I was never going to match with her.

[A]

He just wanted to make.

[B]

He knew that he was going to match with me. The second he was on a date with her, he just was like, she's not somebody that I would actually match with. And he made me sweat and sweat and sweat. And he. He also says that the reason he was kind of got like offended is because I was saying, can she handle him?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which. I'm sorry, I think that's super valid. No, but it's like. But that's super valid. You're. You're a self proclaimed menace.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You need a woman that can handle that. Not just anyone's gonna be able to handle it. Right. And it's not a bad thing. I actually, I say the same thing about myself. Like, I need a man that can.

[A]

Handle all of me, like, nowadays, today.

[B]

Today, with what he has going on in his life. No, thank you. I don't need.

[A]

Okay, no, let's talk kissing challenge.

[B]

The kissing challenge was. It was pretty funny. Obviously I knew when I was kissing Louie, because it was Louie, I was kissing him every night. So I knew exactly when it was him and you know, his sanitary issue. So they.

[A]

Well, that disappeared quickly.

[B]

Yeah, that just where. What happened to the sanitary issue?

[A]

Out the window.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, out the window. So I knew when it was Louie. But with Clayton, I thought I was kissing Daniel.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Like, because they are. They're really similar. I genuinely got them flipped around. I Thought for sure that that was Daniel.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

So it was like I was, like, tripped out. I'm like, wait, Clayton. I did not know that. But the other ones, you can kind of tell, right? Because they all, like, different.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Builds. But Clayton, Daniel, and Ollie have the same, like, structure build. But, yeah, that was a trip.

[A]

That was a mess of the day. That was the way we tried to, like, get out of that kissing challenge.

[B]

Everyone was, like, freaking out. I low key was like, okay, yeah. I didn't want to do the eating challenge or, like, the. The climbing challenge.

[A]

I didn't want you to come around. I was just like, I don't want nobody kissing Ollie.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

I was like, I'll do the. I'll. I'll kiss everybody. I don't want anybody kissing him.

[B]

Close your mouth. Right. I mean, at that point, I think it's like, this was our second or third challenge. It was our third challenge.

[A]

Third challenge.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So at that point, it's like, it' a little too long. Like, we're a little too, like, comfy in our. We're like family at this point. This is. If they did it the first week, it's like, okay, none of us know each other yet, but they were trying to trick us. Yeah, I know. How did you feel about kissing some of the guy?

[A]

Honestly, I could do without. There was a one point when Ali and I kiss was going where you could hear Nick go, this is the longest kiss in perfect.

[B]

They, like, had to actually separate.

[A]

Literally had to stop it. Like, wouldn't stop. Right.

[B]

I know.

[A]

As soon as I knew it was him, I went crazy.

[B]

That was just a trip.

[A]

That wasn't meant.

[B]

Yeah. It was kind of fun, though. I don't know.

[A]

I would never do that again.

[B]

Can't say the same for me.

[A]

Sunny said, Season 4. Me.

[B]

No.

[A]

Jesus. Because you and Clayton got the highest scores, you guys ended up going on a date.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Rachel and I were laughing about this last week, but I want to know what was going through your head on your date with Clayton.

[B]

I was like, why am I in the woods with Clayton right now? Why am I not on a date with Louie? How did I possibly win a challenge without Louie? Like, come on, Are you kidding me? And I just was, you know, obviously, we're on the date. Clayton's a friend.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We were strategizing about the boardroom for the most part, and I was really surprised when he had told me basically, that, like, he was gonna dump Rachel. Cause I was like, wait, what? Like, that's crazy. And that he wanted to maybe put himself on a date. If it was a guy's. A girl's board. If it was a guy's board, whatever. Yeah. What was going through my head was like, can I go home and go back to Louis?

[A]

Did you want to match him at.

[B]

Any point with Clayton?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No. Love him as a friend. He was really fun in the house, but I was not. I was not, like, attracted to him like that at all. I wasn't attracted to most of the guys in the house. I really wasn't. Like, my friends and my mom kept being like, do you don't want to match with anyone else? I'm like, no, I really didn't. I kind of like. I don't know.

[A]

There were so many. Like, they don't really show, but, like, you have to talk to everyone at every mixer. Every mixer, you have to talk to everyone. And every single time, I'm just like, oh, I don't want to have another conversation. I don't care.

[B]

They would literally be like, go talk to this person. And also, I'm like, of course I'm going to say hi to everyone, talk to them. I talked to all the girls that walked in, all the guys. Introduce yourself, you know, get to know them. And I think where, you know, kind of the drama comes in is like, oh, like, your man sees you talking to the new guy that walked into the house, where you're like, I'm literally, like, welcoming him into this.

[A]

I have to talk to him.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not actually interested in matching with him. It's like, yeah, to. To switch up a match is kind of crazy because it is insane. We're essentially, like, living with these guys. And you also, if you match with someone, you're instantly sharing a room, sharing a bed, bathroom. Like, that's kind of a big thing.

[A]

It's a big dog. Like, you can't, like, just switch your match every night and be laid up with someone else every night. It doesn't work like that.

[B]

It's not even, like, Love island, where, like, we all are, like, having, you know, all the beds are together. It's just you guys in a room. And so that's also how you get so close with your match.

[A]

Because once the lights go out and the mics go off, you're, like, having real conversations, and you're literally talking to that person.

[B]

Right?

[A]

All night long, all day.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

So I need you to talk. Talk me through some.

[B]

I think I know where this is.

[A]

Going, because y' all went into that boardroom and your. Your ex pops up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, I know exactly who he'd be perfect for.

[B]

You're like, I thought you loved me. Okay.

[A]

I thought you loved.

[B]

I do love you. I love you.

[A]

No shade to Junior. But.

[B]

But you're like, put shade to Junior. Yes.

[A]

I thought you loved me.

[B]

Girl, I love you. And I.

[A]

You were in a trial marriage with.

[B]

That man, so I didn't want to go on a date with him. I really didn't.

[A]

So you sacrificed me.

[B]

Well, I wanted to put you on a date.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I actually wanted to see how Ollie would react.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, remember, there was.

[A]

There was some turmoil.

[B]

I was getting mad at the guys because I was like, back the f off.

[A]

Yeah. They had their claws in us, like.

[B]

And I wanted to put you on a date. I wanted to see how he reacted. I also, of course, I did want to bring J.R. in the house. I want to have a. For myself, sure. But no, like, I. Not for me, but I guess I wanted to have a conversation with him, and I hadn't talked to him since Ultimatum, so.

[A]

Okay. Because now I'm curious, because I remember being on the date, and obviously, like, your show wasn't out, so I had no idea who he was.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so I'm like, oh, like, what show are you from? And he's like, ultimatum. And I'm like, oh, because I didn't.

[B]

Tell you before you left. Because we couldn't.

[A]

We had no idea.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So then I'm just like, mind you, I'm like, doing a little clay bowl. And I'm like, ultimatum. Okay.

[B]

I thought we talked about this before you left, but now that makes sense, because we kind of.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then he's like, telling me about his experience.

[B]

I'm like, oh, you're like, with my girl Sandy.

[A]

Okay. And I never told him. So I was wondering.

[B]

But you never told him.

[A]

I never told him. I never told him. I was just like, oh, well, you're going to have fun when you get in the house. And he's like, why is that?

[B]

And I was like, did he know I was in there?

[A]

Not for me. And we never brought. We never talked it up. That's what I was going to ask you. Like, did you guys. Did you have any inclination that he could be there? Or did you guys talk at all?

[B]

No, we didn't talk at all. Not one word. Which also, I would like to say that kind of says a lot. Him and I never spoke to each other after Ultimatum. After Perfect Match. I never saw this man. If the cameras weren't in front of our face.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I will say, though, when I did see him on the boardroom, I had a little weird inclination that, like, maybe he would be there. Than he was. And I was like, I have to, like, do something with this. I can't just be like, okay, next, I gotta do something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't want to put myself on a date with him because quite literally, I was really over it. I was already like, we're done with this. We're good. I'm happy with Louis, but for the plot, we gotta bring him into the house and, you know, maybe him and AD could be a fit. I don't know. I will say, though, you guys had a lot in common, which I didn't know, which is crazy. That was. That was kind of like trippy watching back, but a lot.

[A]

Not in common, so.

[B]

A lot.

[A]

There were a few moments where I'm dead.

[B]

But we. But we. We. That was. Yeah, I need to do that. And we.

[A]

That night got crazy as well.

[B]

Did it?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I just. I feel like every mixer night when somebody came in, it was just a weird.

[B]

It was, well, weird energy because it's like you're like. Ollie was sweating when you were on your date, which I wanted in my head.

[A]

I was just like, when I get back to that house, I need Ali to be like, so calm.

[B]

This is what I told.

[A]

So collected. So, like, if I would have came in the house and he was like, manic and running around and be like, full of rage. Yeah. And when I walked in the house and he was just like.

[B]

I was like, I. Lord. That's what I told him. I was like, you need to keep it together. You need to let her do her thing and then she'll come right back to you. And this is what so good. These men needed to be, like, tested a little bit. I wanted to test your guys relationship. Did we have to do it with Jared? Maybe not. But should I have put you on a date with Carrington?

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

I mean, I don't know who else.

[A]

No, I understand.

[B]

We did it for the plot. We did it for the plot.

[A]

But I was just so happy to come back and see him looking so fine.

[B]

And that's what we wanted. And then he went right back to him. And then Jared got the boot.

[A]

There were a few moments on the show where Louis questioned your intentions, and we saw how emotional that made you. Why that hit so deeply?

[B]

Why did that hit so deep? Because the man that's been on 17 reality shows dating Shows is questioning my intentions being on. Like, I hadn't even had a show come out. Right. I hadn't even, like, seen myself on tv, so it just was like, how are. What? Yeah, because I'm, what. Doing what we're supposed to do here. And I'm, like, literally chatting with the guys that walk into the house, like, talking to them, and it was a reach. And you're, like, questioning my intentions when. What are your intentions? I don't know. I just thought that was crazy, to be honest. And I still think it's crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's super.

[A]

Talk more about that or how does he feel your intentions are now?

[B]

I don't know. We don't talk. So how's his intent? How are his intentions, though, now? A little questionable, right?

[A]

You want to get into it?

[B]

Do we?

[A]

We definitely can.

[B]

I don't know. I just think it's interesting. Within the last four or five months, he's been on, like, five shows. Yeah, he's on it. There's another dating show that already came out before our show's even fully out.

[A]

Is it already out?

[B]

Yes, girl, it's already out.

[A]

It's live on TV.

[B]

It's live. It went live August 11th. Our show didn't even finish airing yet. Already on another dating show is like, that's crazy to me. Why?

[A]

When was that filmed?

[B]

I have no idea. After a Perfect Match.

[A]

He'S booked and busy.

[B]

Booked and busy?

[A]

Yeah, and busy. Who's his agent? I don't know.

[B]

Himself?

[A]

Shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, we're gonna circle back to that because I just have another thing. I wanna talk about that really? I wish you could have been at this mixer like a fly on the wall. Oh, I don't like a fly on the wall. Because even. Even what was shown was nothing. Was nothing. Was nothing. What was.

[B]

Can you please tell me?

[A]

It was a cesspool. Like, it literally, like, I felt like I walked into an.

[B]

Like, what were they doing? Just, like, making out the whole time. Just the whole time.

[A]

The whole time. And calling it games. I'm like, this is not a game.

[B]

He literally goes, it was a dare. I'm like, not a game. I'm sorry.

[A]

I dare you.

[B]

I dare you to kiss who you want to kiss in this house.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

That's not a dare.

[A]

Like, it started off the first round.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Truth or dare?

[B]

Okay, Dares. Like, go jump in the pool, not go make out with whoever you want to make out with. Everybody's not a dare.

[A]

Freaked the out.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Just freaky.

[B]

I Know, Freaky.

[A]

I was mortified. I didn't think for one second I was going to be there at all. I thought, like, they took Freddie and I out, and I thought we were just going to chill and vibe until, like, the big mixer. I didn't think I was going to be a part of that at all. I was so pissed off when I found out I was going.

[B]

Oh, why? Why?

[A]

No, why?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, because it was getting. It was. Things were getting back to me via you and Rachel. Yeah, things were getting back to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I was. I don't. I don't know. I just didn't know what the hell was going on.

[B]

Well, thank God you were there.

[A]

Thank God, because.

[B]

Oh, my God. Can you imagine how much more they would have dogged us if you weren't there to literally, like, you know, brought them out?

[A]

It looks like there would have been much more, but I don't think there could have been much more.

[B]

Like, that's great.

[A]

They're like. They probably would have like, really doing other sex. Yeah. I don't know. So you got to watch it live as it was airing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How was that watching it back?

[B]

I mean, not surprised, obviously. Like, we know that it was. You know, we knew. We knew that they went crazy, but it was still just gross, honestly, especially given, like, for me personally, me and Louie, we got. It was actually after our fight that we had with him questioning my intentions, and then we had. We made up, and it was like, you know, the things.

[A]

You were good.

[B]

Well, the things he was saying to me. Like, he was saying some stuff to me that night, like, really, really nice things. And we. We got really close. We're being really open and vulnerable with each other. And then the next morning, the. The morning that they left for Guys Day, he brought me Mango. The teddy bear.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, like, it was this really cute moment. And then he, like, ran off and, like, had a little late.

[A]

Tell people who Mango is.

[B]

So Mango is my. The little. This little teddy bear that Louis gave me after he made me cry and he felt really bad, so he gave me this teddy bear, and I think he gave me something else, too.

[A]

And why do we name him Mango Mango?

[B]

Because I would cut Louie Mango every morning. And that was just.

[A]

We bonded over Mango.

[B]

We loved Mango. Like, it was. We were in Tulum, and I would make him Mango. I would cut him Mango every morning. And so I had a little teddy bear named Mango, and it was really special.

[A]

So he gave you Mango, and then.

[B]

He gave me Mango, our child, essentially. And. And then Went off and destroyed the family at the guy's day, you know.

[A]

I did pinky promise him that I wouldn't say anything. And I literally. And I. But only because I needed to gather data. I needed him to feel free to be like. Literally. I was like, I won't say a word.

[B]

I'm not going to say a word.

[A]

You're like. And I just. No, literally, I told the guy when.

[B]

They were in the pool, you're like, hold on one second. And you're like, I need to, like.

[A]

Distract me and pull me. And I'm like, no, I need to be able to say. Not. Not say maybe could have, like, I.

[B]

Need to see with your own eye.

[A]

I need to witness. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not going to say anything.

[B]

And, like, let them do it.

[A]

I'm not going to say anything. And then that clip of Ali being like, oh, if 80 snitches, I'm not going to match her.

[B]

That's a joke. That's a. That's comedy. Sir, please, like, are you kidding?

[A]

Don't piss me off. Yeah, don't piss me off. The first thing I did was tell us.

[B]

You're like, girls, sit down.

[A]

Everybody sit.

[B]

What do you know? No, but honestly, I would have handled it the same exact way, because it's like, let the guys have the opportunity to tell us. Louis did tell me, for the most part. I mean, he told me that he made out with this girl. This girl. This girl. And then three way. Whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he was making out with Alex outside of the game.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know the extent of it. I don't know how many hours.

[A]

It was a long party.

[B]

I'm sure. I'm sure they were just, like, hooking up in the pool. Let's be real. Like, they probably weren't just making out.

[A]

But, like, it was a long party.

[B]

But he did tell me. The other guys, they really thought that they weren't gonna say. I'm like, are there not cameras up your. Up your thighs?

[A]

Did you feel a kind of way watching it? Like, kind of that side by side when you're like, put a girl in front of him.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

See what he does.

[B]

I actually thought that was hilarious. I was kind of hoping they would do that.

[A]

Like, Netflix ran with it, too. That meme.

[B]

Oh, okay. I was like, that was a little rude. But, like, we love it. I'm here for it. And I can make fun of myself all day. I do not care. But, yeah, that was like, again, because him and I were in the strongest place that we were in pretty much the whole time the morning of when he left. So that's why I was just like, oh, my God. I'm embarrassed, because I'm actually surprised.

[A]

But, you know, that's what I was wondering. People gave Louis, like, a lot of credit for coming to you and telling you the truth about what happened that day, but still, having to hear the details must have hurt. What was going through your head in that moment?

[B]

I kind of was just like, okay, don't trust him. I was really starting to trust him and really let my walls down and really starting to, like, fall for him, not just in this show, but, like, actually as a person. And then that just kind of snapped me out of it. I was like, all right, he's the same old guy. He's the menace. Like, he's doing his thing. He's always gonna do that. And so, like, don't be stupid. Yeah, that was pretty much what was going through my head.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Um, so after the drama with the mixer, Rachel and Ray sent you on a date with J.R. your boy. With your boy, J.R. um, do you feel like.

[B]

Like, can we, like, are we done with JR Please? I'm so over it.

[A]

Okay, then let's just wrap it up. Do you feel like you had unfinished business with him, or do you feel like, um.

[B]

To be honest, no. Um, I felt I. Okay. By the time we went on a date with him, girl, I had already seen him five times over at the end of the show. It would be one thing. The first time he came into the house when he's on a date with you and we talked was like, okay, cool. Honestly, that was, like, closure for me. Like, I wanted to say hi to him, wanted to, like, catch up, maybe see if there was something. But there wasn't. I knew that there wasn't. I was good on that. Then I saw him again at the girls mixer, then the all cast mixer, then on my date. And at that point, I was kind of just like, oh, my God, I'm over.

[A]

By the time you guys went on the date, we had all convinced ourselves that there were new people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We were all convinced.

[B]

I was hoping that there was someone new.

[A]

And the boys were like, there's new guys coming in.

[B]

I was a new bag in some new people.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But obviously there wasn't. And it makes sense. Of course, I. I probably would have done the same thing if I was Rachel.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, sure, we had some, like, you know, some time to actually, like, talk and whatever, but at that point, I just was like, oh, my God. Yeah, I'm really over this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And the thing is, I will. I want to clarify on this because it looks like I'm confused. When I come back into the house, I was confused on Louis because Junior was basically putting a lot of things in my head. Louie's. Come on, he's not here for you. Every other guy here has their arms wrapped around their girl. He's never liked that with you, but, like, kind of making me question Louie's intentions.

[A]

You mentioned that you got into a fight, like, five minutes into the first.

[B]

Five minutes, because he right away started being like, louie's not here for you. Don't you want a man? Don't you? Aren't you just sick of babysitting, kind of talking smack on Louis? And I got really defensive because I'm like, if me and Louie have our own thing going on, that's one thing. But, like, you're not gonna talk on him. You don't even know him, nor do you know our relationship. You were saying this to me different, but, like, he doesn't know anything. And so I popped off on him, and they. They didn't air it. And then even when we went back into the house, he was like, wow, Sans, I've never seen you pop off. You've never done that. And I was like, I know, because, like, I've hit a breaking point.

[A]

Like, I'm done, right?

[B]

And I was like, yeah, get out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I'm just that on that. And again, this all happened before the ultimatum stuff came out and all the drama and me really seeing the full picture of everything, Seeing how he's speaking to other women in the interviews, how he's talking about me in interviews, but.

[A]

Just, like, brought that sexual energy from everywhere. That's just a lot.

[B]

It's a lot.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

All the time. To everybody.

[A]

To anyone.

[B]

To anyone with tits, really, Everyone. And it's just like. It's not cute. It's not appropriate. It makes women uncomfortable. And when there's cameras. Cameras up our face and you're saying certain things, it's like, hard for us to be like, don't. Don't say that. That's like. You don't want to make it awkward and embarrass them. You're like, I'm like, I just would laugh it off. And that was my bad. I should have, you know, really, like, stood my ground on some things. But, yeah, just seeing everything, full picture, it's like, okay, no goodbye. Next. Also like, again, Tim and I had a real relationship. Don't you think we would have spoken in real life or seen each other? We live in the same city, essentially. I'd never seen him once outside of cameras. Not once.

[A]

Okay. And that's that on that, folks. So on your final date with Louis, you two had a pretty deep conversation about your relationship, and he wrote you a sweet little note, which I didn't know. That's cute.

[B]

You didn't know that? Yeah, it was really sweet. It was actually really long and it was really cute.

[A]

What were you feeling in that moment?

[B]

I honestly could not believe my eyes because I was like, louis Russell is sitting here, like, writing me a handwritten letter, reading it out loud to me on camera. It was really, really sweet. That was definitely, like, peak moment of everything, you know, on our. Our first and last date, mind you, because we never won a challenge and we. I don't know, just the vibes were really high. We were really, really close. And yeah, I mean, I felt like it was real, you know, I don't think he was doing that for the cameras.

[A]

If anything, he would performative.

[B]

If anything, he would, like, not do that for the camera.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it was real. And even said, like, I've never. I've never known someone this closely or something like that because him and I were really close. Like, that man, like, cried in my arms, you know, Like, I. I knew a different side to him that most people on this planet will never see.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think because we trusted each other to, like, open up and, you know, we. We had a. A really close, like, bond through all of that, and then. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like a. It's a weird thing.

[A]

Did you guys talk about, like, your future and what it would look like outside of the show?

[B]

Not really so much. Like, we would talk about, like, okay, you know, what are we gonna do from here? But we never gave each other, like, false hope. We were never like, oh, my God, okay, we're gonna make this work. And da da da da. We just were really grateful for the time that we spent together and, like, the. The connection that we built and the relationship that we had. And we're like, no matter what, nothing can, like, take that away. Like, we've already experienced this together and, you know, whatever is meant to happen will happen and we'll see, like, how it is going back to reality and going into the normal world. Obviously we live in different countries, but he was planning on moving to LA in general, so we' so There was kind of like, okay, I think we can make it work, because if you're going to be in la, you know, some we can. Something can come from this. But that was kind of the extent of, like, our conversations around what's after that, you know, do you feel like.

[A]

You had collected enough data on him there to make an assessment of it? Probably wasn't going to go beyond that.

[B]

Not really. I actually, I thought that we were going to, like, at least try because he was talking about come visiting LA and, like, you know, okay, I want to come out before your neck, before your show comes out. I want to be there for you. You know, he was really like, like, when he's on, he's on and he's amazing, and then he. When he's not, he does not give a. Yeah. You know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was kind of the weird thing to see. Like, I think being on, you know, the show in the villa, it's like you kind of have their undivided attention more so. And I think it was genuine, 100%. But it's like once reality kind of kicks in, other things are going on. Especially with Louis, like, he's like, yeah, it's out of sight, out of mind, you know? So I think kind of seeing kind, like how he just didn't really give a. After it was like, oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It was almost immediately after.

[B]

Immediate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So let's talk finale. What did you think about the final compatibility challenge, like, twist that they threw at us?

[B]

Well, I actually liked that challenge because those are my types of challenges.

[A]

I love a compatibility one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I do not want to be climbing.

[A]

Rocks, hoisted up in and jumping into water.

[B]

I will, like, let me tell you what, your birthday.

[A]

I know this person. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Your mom's name. Yeah, like, all that stuff. So I did like it, but at the time we were like, oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, wrap it up, girl.

[B]

We were so tired and just. Yeah, but I thought that was a fun challenge. It was kind of a bummer that, like, no one, like, if you weren't in the top two, then, like, you didn't get a chance at, like, being, like, voted as the perfect match. And that was just something that we weren't expecting.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. I think overall, like, the voting, like, from season one, two and three, like, I don't know, something about the voting just needs.

[B]

It needs to change because.

[A]

Change. It just doesn't make any sense that people that don't know shit about your relationship or what you've gone through have that much power. I think that is exactly the most insane thing. And I know they tried to, like, switch it up to, like. Like, minimize, like, no shade, but, like.

[B]

Ray and Rachel winning, which I did.

[A]

If the. If that group had their way and.

[B]

They wanted ready to win, because he would have won outside the house the majority of the time.

[A]

So I like that they narrowed it down, but, like, let's narrow it down again. Like.

[B]

Yes, no, exactly. I agree. Because I. It's like, I don't want to, like, exclude anybody because we're all a part of the cast, but it is really difficult when people that have never even stepped foot in the house are voting. They literally do not know the relationships. And that's kind of what happened. Season two, they just voted for the people that were like, their friends, which I get, of course.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's like, that didn't really make sense. And to be honest, I think as a viewer, the audience gets kind of annoyed with that because they want to see the couple that they're invested in win.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think everyone wanted to see you and Ollie win, which I knew that at the time. And everybody in the house voted for you and Ollie. Respectfully. And I love.

[A]

Except for Louie and his. Any mini miny mo, which I was.

[B]

Did they show that on the thing.

[A]

Which is fine. I understood. No, because it's like, those are his boys.

[B]

I really wanted you and Ollie to win, and I was, like, really actually bummed when you guys didn't win because I knew that you guys were legit. You guys could use the vacation. I knew Lucy and Daniel were not gonna take the vacation. I knew it because I knew it wasn't gonna last. Respectfully, like, and it didn't. Which, again, it's like a wasted vacation, you know? Can. Can we transfer it to you guys, please? You guys actually took your own vacation. We did. Which I'm. I'm glad that you guys did. And that kind of, like, I'm sure.

[A]

It was very necessary.

[B]

I know. I want to, like, hear about that.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

And just the, like, how your guys relationship has evolved.

[A]

A bunch of us stayed after filming wrapped, and you guys, you, Louie, Lucy, Daniel, Scott.

[B]

We went to Cancun.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And we were. Ollie and I were a part of the plans to all go to Cancun.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then Ollie looked at me, like, the night before and was like, yeah, we're not doing that.

[B]

Yeah, you guys took your own little.

[A]

Yeah, we're not doing that. So we ended up staying in Tulum.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then.

[B]

How. Like, how was it when you guys were in Tulum first time? No cameras.

[A]

Like, it was good.

[B]

I mean, it was good. I know it was good. I'm just. I love that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, long. Like, long story, very short. We're grateful that we didn't go to Cancun.

[B]

I'm grateful.

[A]

Cancun. After y' all left, then.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[A]

Yeah, we went to Cancun after. Yeah. We had our own. Wherever you guys were, we were not. Yeah.

[B]

You guys needed some real.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I feel like that. That probably helped your guys's relationship really, like, grow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's what you guys needed after all the craziness, to actually, like, sit down and assess. Okay. Are we gonna do this or are we not? You know, we stayed a full week. Good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes. And then you guys just went back.

[A]

To girl separate ways for a short time, and then I was off.

[B]

I know. Then you went right back, right to London. You're like, I've been in London for three weeks. I'm like, holy.

[A]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, my girl's getting married. Yeah, I know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You didn't miss anything in Cancun. In fact, I'm actually glad that you didn't come, because I was.

[A]

That's when everybody's relationship fell to pieces.

[B]

Yeah. We saw a different side of the boys there. Me and Lucy were like, what is going on?

[A]

Do you want to talk about it or. No.

[B]

I mean, it just was like, I saw the maturity level just plummet very quickly just being there, being out, and I was like, I could never deal with this because it just was, like, not. I'm like, I just deserve better. Yeah.

[A]

How long did y' all stay in Cancun?

[B]

Like, two days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it was, yeah, get me outta here.

[B]

Like, time to go home.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What did happen, like, after the show wrapped? I know you kind of mentioned that it was almost immediate that you and Louis just stopped talking. Was it immediate?

[B]

Pretty much. Like, after we went to Cancun, obviously kind of saw a different side of him, which I didn't really appreciate, but we still obviously had our relationship and everything. And then, you know, we basically said bye to each other, and that was kind of it. Like, we. We kept in touch a little bit. Voice noting back and forth, checking in, like, here and there for maybe a couple weeks after. But it was, like, very, like, sporadic. Nothing consistent. And to be honest, like, I could just. I am not a girl that's going to, like, chase a man ever. I will just never do that I'm super. Like, I can read a room and. And I'm just used to, like, I'm being pursued. Yeah. I'm feminine.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And Louis just was kind of like, all over the place and, you know, like, just taking days to respond or hours. And I'm like, okay, you're gonna take hours to respond. I'm gonna take days to respond. Like, I just. That's how I went down.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, just like, you know, and it's fine, but it just kind of fizzled out and then we just lost touch, honestly. Yeah.

[A]

So for those of y' all that may not know, our boy Louie was spotted hanging out with Love Island's Hutta. What are your thoughts about him and Huda, if you have any?

[B]

I don't know if they were spotted necessarily. I think they hit a red carpet together on purpose. I think they. They were spotted first at the Grove.

[A]

If you don't want to be seen, go to the Grove.

[B]

Yeah, literally. I don't know if it was like a. They were spotted at the grocery store. They quite literally hit a red carpet.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And hard launched their. Whatever. Relationship the day that our show premiered. Mind you, for the people that don't know, like, when you're on reality TV shows, especially dating shows, you have to keep your dating life on lockdown until the show is done. Because it ruins the show. It ruins the surprise. It's like, that is like reality dating 101. You have to keep everything super private. And it almost felt like. It almost felt calculated and very intentional that they're not being spotted but hitting a red carpet the day that our show premieres.

[A]

Were you upset?

[B]

Yeah, I was upset, yeah.

[A]

Did you talk to him about it? No. Have you talked to him about it?

[B]

No. Do not say word to him about it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you talked to him since?

[B]

No.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Only when we were at the. The promo stuff. Yeah, I was upset for. Mostly for the show. Not for me personally. Like, I actually. It kind of was like a little bit of a relief in a way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But for the sake of the show, the. The other castmates, our storyline, and most importantly, the audience, like, I thought it was a really, really big slap in the face and just a disrespect to the whole production.

[A]

I feel that.

[B]

Right. Like, didn't you feel that way?

[A]

I just. I don't think there's anything that that man can do that would shock me. I was just like, you know what? Louis being Louis, it is so unfortunate that you didn't get that time to like, have your story play out, have.

[B]

That maybe 10 days.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Literally. You got. We have two weeks of air. Of airtime.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You could have waited two weeks, especially with your relationship that has only been alive for two weeks. Like any other real relationship, like all of ours, we've had to kind of wait months and months and months to actually reveal what's going on for this show, the timing of it, and a lot of other castmates have been doing that. And then for him to do that was just, like, very disrespectful and selfish. I don't know.

[A]

Well, now that the show is aired and everything is out, is there anybody you want to reveal? Are you single? Are you dating? Are we in a relationship?

[B]

I've been seeing somebody. Yes.

[A]

Come on, T. You know, I do know.

[B]

I know you know. You know all my stuff. Yeah, no, I've been seeing somebody for the last couple months, and we're really happy. Things are really good. I mean, it's been. There's been some roadblocks with this show. Yeah. I mean, it's not easy to watch your person on TV with somebody else, but it was, like, filmed a year ago, you know, And I think that's the challenge that a lot of us have run into with the show. You know, you're engaged, pregnant, like, life goes on. In a year, a lot can happen, and then we kind of watch things play back, and we have to keep our current life a secret. You thankfully got to reveal that before, but imagine if you had to keep your pregnancy and engagement a full secret. Like how it's difficult to do that.

[A]

It is hard, right?

[B]

It is hard, and it's really hard.

[A]

For somebody that's not in the industry or that's.

[B]

Yeah. That's not also on the show with you. Like, to kind of process that and. And digest it, you know? So it's. That's been interesting, but.

[A]

But you're working through it.

[B]

Oh, we're good. And everything's amazing. And it's like. It's actually nice that. Okay, everything's out in the open now. We can just, like, freely.

[A]

Are you back in your dating age range?

[B]

Yes, I'm back in my normal dating age. We date up, honey, not down. Yes.

[A]

I love that for you. I can't wait to meet him. We should all do dinner.

[B]

I know. We need to.

[A]

Okay, let's. Let's switch the tune. Play a little game. You know? I love to play a little game. We're gonna do Perfect Match season three superlatives.

[B]

Okay. Love this.

[A]

So I'M gonna call out a superlative and we have to pick which person from our cast. Bets fits that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. First one most likely to steal someone else's match. Juliet.

[B]

Oh, wait, not her. I love Juliet, by the way. Love her so much. Not her trying to steal Louis. When she was like, should we match? I'm like, I texted her. I was like, you bitch, you're trying to match with Louie. She was like, I don't remember that.

[A]

Remember when she looked Madison dead in the eyes and was like, so you're not gonna match with Cody? Can I match with Cody? And Madison was like, jeez, that is.

[B]

Honestly a good one. I would say might not. Instantly I thought about Alex, but Juliet actually would be more savage to the point where she'll be like, do you want a match?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Alex, like, wouldn't really do that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay. I like that Juliet respectfully love her. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Best dressed, best dress.

[B]

I think me and you. I do. I'll take it.

[A]

Yeah, I'll take it.

[B]

I always thought that we had like the best outfits.

[A]

I really love that purple number that I wore.

[B]

I love that with the cute.

[A]

With the head scarf. Yeah, that was so cute. Yeah.

[B]

Like redemption.

[A]

And then you like for your revenge. Sandy has a signature dress like I do. You have a signature look. I show the abs.

[B]

It's going to be.

[A]

Going to be longer than Sandy look.

[B]

It is the yes. Thank you for.

[A]

And it eats every single time.

[B]

Yeah, I love it. I love a good strapless, cut out, long, long, colorful.

[A]

Yeah, every time. Every time. Okay. Biggest heart.

[B]

Probably Freddie. I just feel like he is a sweetheart. He's just a sweetheart. And even just hearing like some of his, like his thought process from like, you know, why were you doing certain things? Ready? He just is like, it comes from a good place.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He always thinks big picture too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I just think he's a really sweet soul.

[A]

He's so sweet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who would you say biggest heart? I would agree. Freddie. Just sweet.

[C]

Just.

[B]

What about out of the girls? Let's do that.

[A]

Probably Rachel.

[B]

I was gonna say maybe Rachel. Yeah, she's just like a. Literally a sweet girl.

[A]

Yeah. Just so sweet.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Okay. Most likely to start a villa wide argument.

[B]

Madison. She kind of did.

[A]

She triggered people every single night.

[B]

She actually did start a villa wide argument.

[C]

I remember her.

[A]

Louie, Alex, Freddie got into it.

[B]

They didn't air it, which I'm surprised. But at the all cast mixer, they were shouting across the pool like they. Everybody was involved and it was because Madison Was stirring the palm, running her mouth.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Most unpredictable. I would say Daniel. Like, I would have never expected him to act the way he did after everything that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I think that caught me off guard. That was my most shook moment.

[B]

Right, exactly. Because it was like, Daniel would never. Because he was so Shrek with their relationship, and it was like him doing. Not Lucy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then for him to go crazy was. Was crazy. Okay. Most unpredictable. Also, Juliet. Yeah, I think Juliet was unpredictable because it's like, what is she gonna do today?

[A]

Yeah, no idea.

[B]

Who is she gonna match with what?

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Every time. Every minute Juliet spent in the house was a minute worth living.

[B]

What's she gonna say? What is gonna come out of this girl's mouth? I never knew. I am long. Yeah. Okay for it.

[A]

Most extra. In what way?

[B]

I think me, honestly, I was, like, carrying my hair brush around me everywhere, Mini straightener on hand, doing my lip gloss everywhere. Like, I do think I'm a little extra. I'm like. I'm like a princess. My churros. Like, the churros? Yeah. I'm gonna say I was the most extra.

[A]

I never want to see a churro or a cricket or a tire.

[B]

How in the did you eat the crickets and the churro?

[A]

You know, you do what you gotta do.

[B]

I was like, this is not a joke, because there's seven churros on this plate.

[A]

And you took your sweet little time.

[B]

Because I was like, I will be damned if I'm shoving my face like that on tv, drinking milk. Like, I'm not in an eating challenge.

[A]

Like, remember how sick Louie got after.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

After the cameras cut from that challenge.

[B]

The medics had to come to Louis because the medics came. They came because of the pepper. Yeah, because he ate.

[A]

It was, like, throwing up. Like, it was bad.

[B]

I was like, okay. This is okay. He's also extra. Yeah. I'm like, no one else needed a medic.

[A]

I literally looked at Ollie while he was eating that pepper, and I said, if you throw up, you're like, I'm gonna get that.

[B]

Scarf it down. You just ate.

[A]

I just ate. If you throw up a pepper, don't ever talk to me again.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

They didn't air that, But I was like, I swear to God.

[B]

You're like, I have a belly full of bugs.

[A]

Literally, a belly full of bugs.

[B]

Move on. I love the belly full of bugs.

[A]

Because eat the pepper.

[B]

No, that was eat the pepper, actually. And also, though, I'm like, louie, eat the crickets. Like, you were gonna make me do it. He's like, I'm not eating at Rock Paper Scissors. I'm like, haha. Jokes on you. Like, I know that you had to eat it because, yeah, vegan, but like, I. I was literally taken back when Rachel and Ray was like, you got it, Rachel. I'm like, you're gonna make her eat the cricket.

[A]

His perfect match.

[B]

Who are these men?

[A]

I don't know. Biggest overthinker.

[B]

Maybe Rachel.

[A]

Did she.

[B]

I don't know. I think she can get in her head a little bit. Or maybe.

[A]

Maybe Clayton. I feel like he thought the process.

[B]

Out okay a lot. Yes.

[A]

The intuition, the thinking.

[B]

Clayton is a big overthinker. He's a big thinker.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In general.

[B]

Too much. Yeah, Sometimes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He overthought a lot of it. Okay. Most likely to cry.

[B]

Rachel.

[A]

Lucy. Rachel. And Lucy.

[B]

No, but Rachel is the queen of. Queen of crying on the screen. Queen. Yes, she is. That is her brand, is. We love the tears. Lucy did cry a lot.

[A]

She did.

[B]

But I would cry too.

[A]

Did I cry? Yeah. When I got kicked out.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That was the one time I cried.

[B]

Yeah. You had one cry. I had one cry.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Us tough Scorpios are like, I'm not gonna cry here. It does. It will pull it out of you, though.

[A]

Okay. And most likely to become a meme, I would say Netflix did deem me meme girl of the season.

[B]

Because all of your faces, the reactions, that's actually true. But you're like a good meme. I was just shocked when I think.

[A]

I mean, a lot of my time. Shocked.

[B]

Yeah, the whole thing. I was like, shocking what's going on. I think that you're a good meme where it's like, okay, but when I think of a meme, I think of kind of, I don't know, Silly. Yeah.

[A]

Let's see.

[B]

I was thinking Clayton, but he's not like, meme worthy faces, but like, you know, like dancing.

[A]

And did you see after he voted me and Ollie, and he's like. And that deserves a happy dance. The way.

[B]

Because I didn't watch the full episode yet.

[A]

The way me and Ali burst out laughing like we were so, like. He was just, like, so happy for us, right? He breaks out and he's like, that deserves a happy dance.

[B]

And I'm just, like, staying on. I will say his dancing videos give me life.

[A]

They just show up on my feed and I'm like, go crazy. Yeah, go crazy. I would be so remiss if I didn't bring in another sweet Soul. Before we wrap up.

[B]

Oh, there's someone else here.

[A]

Yeah, your mom.

[B]

Oh, my God. Stop. Yeah, Mom. Come on. Just a little hug. Just say hi. Just a little hug. Oh, my God. Stop. Yay. Yes. Come in here. Oh, she gonna cry. Here, put your hair.

[A]

Oh, she's so cute. You did great.

[B]

Yes. Oh, mama.

[A]

I know. Obviously, I don't have any questions prepared for you because I didn't know that.

[B]

We would be blessed with your presence with me everywhere. I love that. My lifeline and my best friend.

[A]

So introducing it to your mom.

[B]

This is my mom. You guys say hi. You better be nice and you better be nice. You better be nice to my mom. This is first place. Lori Gallagher in the flesh, period.

[A]

Okay. So where do you think I get myself? You've seen Sandy on Ultimatum. You've now seen her on Perfect Match. How do you feel about having a reality girly?

[B]

I love turning on the TV and seeing her face.

[A]

I'm gonna cry.

[B]

I'm like.

[A]

I'm like, that's my girl.

[B]

I love it. I love it. Even in all my crazy moments.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll have to say the Ultimatum was hard to watch because it was really real.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you knew Nick.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That was really difficult. Perfect Match was fun. I could watch it a hundred times.

[A]

Did you call your mom? Like, when we got chances in between.

[B]

She was the only person I would call because. Because, you know, we'd have, like, 20 minutes on our phone, and I would just, like, give her updates on everything. She's my best friend, so I tell her everything. And she is here for all the. The drama and the tea and the reality. The reality she loves. We do our little watch parties for the show. We like. I. I'll watch all the stuff for the first time with her, and we just have a fun time. She always makes me feel good about it, even if I did some crazy, messy stuff. She's like. She makes. She's like, you are so good.

[A]

I'm like, my mom's the same. My mom's the same. I was like, I'm loving the show. I'm like, well, what show are you on?

[B]

Even with Ultimatum, she was like, you are a star.

[A]

I'm like, mom, well, you raised an amazing, amazing queen.

[B]

She's my best friend. I'm very, very proud.

[A]

I feel like I'm looking at my Future in, like, 20 years.

[B]

I'm sitting on a podcast with my.

[A]

Daughter, and I'm just like, absolutely.

[B]

I'm so happy that you're having a daughter. Like, I feel like, us women, we just. We want that. I want this for myself, and I'm really excited for you to have that. I know it's the best thing. So I watched your show, Love is Blind.

[A]

I'm like, dang, we went through it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that was. Yeah, you did.

[A]

So now we're here.

[B]

And honestly, I'm so happy for you because you did go through it, and you literally found your Prince Charming, your love story, everything, and it's all on tv. And, like, I am so happy and honored that I got to, like, see it in the flesh and be so close to you through the process. Since minute one, like, I just knew it, and I stayed true to that. And like, you, I just. It's so cool to kind of be on the other side of it and like. Like, be in the know and just really know how amazing my relationship is.

[A]

What I never talked about. Well, I could never. Oh, yes, you guys, I was pregnant. And no one knew. No, I didn't. Like, Ollie. And my family knew, but it was. We weren't public. And I get a random text. Like, it was. Had to be, like, random. Seven to eight in the morning.

[B]

It was right when I woke up.

[A]

Very early and she texted me. She said, bitch, I just had a dream that you're pregnant. And I go.

[B]

Can'T wait for Perfect.

[A]

Match to come out. And you're like, no, no. What did I say?

[B]

You said, we moved.

[A]

I'm not pregnant. But I moved to. No, I said. I didn't say I'm not pregnant. I said, but I live in la.

[B]

You said, get. Guess what? We just moved to la. And I was like, shut up. No way.

[A]

I had to change the subject.

[B]

Why did I just have a dream that you were pregnant?

[A]

And I literally was like, ollie.

[B]

And I had the most vivid dream I remember. I woke up and I was like, oh, my God. Ad you were like, beautiful mother, as you are right now. Exactly. Like, it was so weird. I was like, I have to text you this because I had a feeling you were pregnant. I was like, I need this in writing.

[A]

It was so.

[B]

And I. I could kind of tell by your response. I was like, I think something's going on.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then obviously, when you came out, like, I knew it.

[A]

I'm like, kill me. You're gonna kill me.

[B]

No, I. Obviously.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That is. I know. I wanted to bring that up because I.

[A]

That was so. You did. That was so weird.

[B]

I knew it in my dreams.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm so happy for you. And it was beautiful and it's here. It is like. Like, it's gonna be amazing. And you're gonna be the best mom ever.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

So you're living in LA now? Yes. And where's Ollie living in la? Oh, yeah, they got a place together.

[C]

Okay, good.

[B]

Yeah, they have a nursery and everything. Seeing him, like, posting pictures, like, setting up the nursery. I actually died. It's.

[A]

That's all he does.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It's his favorite pastime. Yeah.

[B]

It is the cutest thing I've ever seen. It's. He's gonna be the cutest girl.

[A]

Dad, he's just already so obsessed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He's so upset. Him.

[B]

Horrific. Holding a little baby girl. No more crying.

[A]

Okay. Well, Sandy, thank you for coming on what's the Reality? Again.

[B]

Again.

[A]

And I'm sure he'll be back for.

[B]

I'll be back again.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Again.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Why not? Truly? Why not?

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Mama Gallagher, thank Mama G. Oh, Mama G. Okay, make sure we have Mama G on. Mama G. Thank you for joining us. And thank you for blessing the world with this beautiful, beautiful soul.

[B]

Thank you. I love you. Thank you for having me. And thanks for bringing my mom in here. So cute.

[A]

Course.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

We all need to get our moms together.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That would be fun.

[B]

Is your mom here?

[A]

No, but she will be. Yeah, she's gonna have to come.

[B]

She's gonna come home.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Amazing girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah.

[A]

So thank you, guys.

[B]

Thank you for having me. Of course.

[A]

And thank you guys for joining us on another episode of what's the Reality? Be sure to follow us on all social platforms at what's the reality? Pod. And subscribe on YouTube if you have, if you haven't already. And I will see you next Wednesday. Bye.

[C]

Bye.