Stand on It with Love is Blind's Ben and AD Plays Matchmaker with The Ultimatum's Zaina and Temptation Island's Hashim

Summary

What's the Reality? Episode Summary
Episode: Stand on It with Love is Blind's Ben and AD Plays Matchmaker with The Ultimatum's Zaina and Temptation Island's Hashim
Release Date: March 26, 2025
Host: AD from Love is Blind

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Introduction

In this action-packed episode of What's the Reality?, host AD welcomes two notable reality TV stars: Ben from Love is Blind season eight and Hashim from The Ultimatum season three. Joining them is Zaina, the host from Love is Blind, who also serves as the matchmaker for the evening. The trio delves into their reality show experiences, personal growth journeys, current pop culture events, and offers insightful advice on love and relationships.

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Guest Introductions

Zaina kicks off the episode with enthusiasm, introducing Hashim from The Ultimatum and Ben from Love is Blind, highlighting their show's impact on their personal lives and relationships.

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Hashim's Journey on The Ultimatum

Hashim details his participation in The Ultimatum, explaining the premise: "The Ultimatum is a crazy experiment where there's six couples, and one person issues their partner an ultimatum: get married or break up." (01:22) He shares his motivations, stating, "I was the person that issued my boyfriend an ultimatum after three years together to prioritize our relationship." (02:03)

Hashim reflects on the aftermath, revealing that his relationship ended with his ex-partner blocking him on social media: "He blocked me after the reunion, which was shocking." (04:30). This experience became a catalyst for his personal growth, leading him to freeze his eggs at 33 to take control of his future: "I froze my eggs because I didn’t want to settle for convenience." (04:55)

He also discusses his wellness journey, which included battling depression and prioritizing his health: "Fitness and wellness saved me." (06:41). Hashim emphasizes the importance of healing holistically, creating a guided journal titled Purposeful Healing to assist others: "My journal covers the five stages of grief with prompts for mind, body, and soul." (08:15)

Hashim offers heartfelt advice: "Stop romanticizing red flags. It's not cute." (09:05) He encourages seeking therapy and embracing the healing process without rushing: "It's okay to cry, but don’t fall into a sunken place." (09:05)

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Ben's Experience on Love is Blind

Ben shares his journey to Love is Blind, highlighting his quick decision to join the show: "I received a DM inviting me to Temptation Island and accepted within two weeks." (17:04). With a background in sociology from Princeton and a master's in Instructional Technology, Ben was running a tech startup before his reality TV debut.

Reflecting on his time on the show, Ben describes the camaraderie among the male cast members: "We made the girls feel comfortable. We were like the therapists of the show." (20:16). He discusses his relationship with Shantae and Brian, noting their respectful interactions and challenges: "Shantae was closed off initially but did what was best for herself at the end." (21:00)

Ben candidly shares his experience of being blocked by Shantae before the show aired: "Shantae blocked me a few days before it aired. It was shocking because we didn’t communicate." (39:04). Despite this, Ben remains positive, expressing happiness for their mutual growth: "As long as she's happy, I'm good." (40:58)

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Current Events and Pop Culture Discussions

Kim Kardashian and Kanye West Custody Battle

Zaina brings up the ongoing custody disputes between Kim Kardashian and Kanye West, particularly Kanye's controversial music release featuring their daughter: "Kim is considering stripping Kanye of joint legal custody because of his new track." (11:57). Hashim weighs in, emphasizing child welfare over ego: "They should both say, what is best for these kids, not ego." (12:30).

Wendy Williams' Guardianship Struggle

The conversation shifts to Wendy Williams and her battle to regain control from her guardianship: "Wendy feels like she's living in a prison and is fighting for her freedom." (13:56). Both Zaina and Hashim express empathy, discussing Wendy's contributions to entertainment and her current challenges: "An eye opening experience that everything could be stripped away." (14:11).

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Game Segment: Deal Breakers

AD introduces the "Deal Breakers" game, where Ben and Hashim respond to relationship scenarios.

1. Posting Partners on Instagram:

   • Hashim: "It's not an automatic deal breaker, but it raises red flags if there's no clear reason." (28:16)
   • Ben: "In past relationships, yes. Now, not necessarily if there's a valid reason." (29:28)

2. Desire for Children:

   • Hashim: "It's a deal breaker. I want kids and have frozen my eggs to ensure the right timing." (30:40)
   • Ben: "It could be a deal breaker depending on the connection. I prefer not having 'baby moms', but would want children if it's the right person." (31:13)

3. Being Friends with Exes:

   • Hashim: "Absolutely a deal breaker. It signifies unresolved ties." (32:27)
   • Ben: "I prefer a clean break. Friends with exes on social media is fine if the breakup was amicable, but not if there was infidelity." (33:05)

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Cringe Dating Moments

Ben and Hashim share their most awkward dating experiences.

• Hashim recounts a first date where his date invited him to her workplace as a bartender, leading to an uncomfortable interaction: "He was working, making margaritas, and I felt like I should tip him on a first date." (35:07)

• Ben describes a date obsessed with astrology, leading to confusion and an immediate end to the interaction: "She tried to do my entire astrological chart on our first date. I gave a fake birth time and never saw her again." (37:13)

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Sarah's Interview and Reflections on Social Issues

Sarah, a former fiancé from Love is Blind, joins the conversation to address public criticisms and her handling of social issues on the show.

She acknowledges her initial discomfort with discussions on Black Lives Matter and the LGBTQ community: "I was embarrassed about how I handled those conversations, but they've been crucial for my personal growth." (45:12). Sarah emphasizes her journey from avoidance to active engagement, aiming to educate herself and support marginalized communities: "I'm an ally to all those communities and want to lead with love and curiosity." (52:04)

When addressing accusations of manipulating women on social media, Sarah clarifies her lack of malicious intent: "I did the best I could and never wanted to hurt anyone." (57:17). She stresses the importance of honest communication and owning up to past mistakes: "I need to continue striving to have tough conversations and educate myself." (55:11)

Sarah also recounts her breakup with Sarah post-show, highlighting the emotional challenges and the importance of clear communication: "We both said no, but the way it unfolded was confusing and hurtful." (66:27).

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Takeaways and Personal Growth

Ben reflects on his experiences, emphasizing the importance of clear communication and understanding personal needs in relationships: "Know how you like to be loved and ensure your partner does too." (74:29). He discusses the challenge of navigating dating life post-show, given increased public attention: "It might be harder to decipher genuine connections because of the DMs." (75:48).

Hashim shares his key takeaway of actively choosing someone who aligns holistically with him: "Choose someone who actively chooses you every day and aligns emotionally, physically, and spiritually." (75:48). He advises against holding on to relationships out of obligation: "Don't hold on to a relationship because you invested time in it." (75:48).

Sarah emphasizes the significance of confronting and engaging with difficult conversations: "Not avoiding the difficult conversations is crucial for personal growth and relationship blossoming." (71:15). She advocates for using her platform to shed light on social issues and support educational dialogues: "I will use my platform to drive positive outreach on these issues." (55:51).

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Conclusion

The episode of What's the Reality? offers an in-depth look into the lives of reality TV stars Ben and Hashim, exploring their personal journeys, relationships, and growth post-show. Through candid discussions and heartfelt advice, the guests highlight the complexities of love, the importance of self-care, and the necessity of engaging with social issues authentically. Host AD masterfully navigates through various topics, ensuring a rich and engaging experience for listeners, whether they're reality TV enthusiasts or individuals seeking meaningful relationship insights.

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Notable Quotes:

• Hashim: "Stop romanticizing red flags. It's not cute." (09:05)
• Ben: "We were like the therapists of the show." (20:16)
• Sarah: "Not avoiding the difficult conversations is crucial for personal growth." (71:15)
• Hashim: "Choose someone who actively chooses you every day." (75:48)

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For more insights and episodes, follow AD on all social media platforms and tune in weekly to What's the Reality? where love, relationships, and reality TV intersect with authenticity, humor, and heart.

Transcript

[Zayna]

What's the Reality? What's the Reality? Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of what's the Reality? You guys, I'm so excited about this episode. It is going to be action packed, starting with my girl Zayna from season three of Ultimatum. It's me.

[Hashim]

I'm here.

[Zayna]

Welcome. And then we have a little treat for all of my Temptation island fans. We've got Hashim coming in to talk about his time and drop a little tea as well. And then if you've been following along on the podcast, you know that I am very much invested in season eight of Love Is Blind. So I got to talk to Ben a little bit after the reunion, and we're gonna. We're gonna show that as well, so. Yeah. But before all that, how are you?

[Hashim]

I'm great.

[Zayna]

Welcome to what's the Reality.

[Hashim]

So happy to be here.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Catch me up on life. How are you?

[Hashim]

I've been great. Honestly. The show was the biggest blessing in disguise. Not gonna lie. Thank God for that. Afterwards, it's like a weight has been lifted. Everything's just been up and up after the show.

[Zayna]

So let's go back a little bit and talk about your ultimatum journey. For those that don't know what ultimatum is, do you wanna give us a little breakdown and then tell us how you got involved?

[Hashim]

Yes. So the ultimatum is a crazy experiment where there's six couples, and out of the couple, one person issues their partner an ultimatum. Let's get married or break up. And so I was the person that issued my boyfriend at the time of three years an ultimatum. And even the way we kind of, like, got on the show is that we saw, like, an ad pop up for it. And I brought it up as a joke. I was like, oh, my God. Like, look at this. He's like, oh, we should do it. And I'm like, oh, my God, you're finally prioritizing our relationship. Because up until that point, marriage conversations were stalled. And I took his enthusiasm for wanting to do the show was like, you.

[Zayna]

Just want him to marry me? You want to marry me? Oh, my God. Cause he was married before.

[Hashim]

He was married before, so I thought that he just had some undealt trauma with his, like, first marriage engaged. After that, Like, I thought there was just, like, a lot of trauma there. And I was excited to do the experiment because I'm like, you can't run from the mic or the producers. You can't sit here and talk. So that's kind of how, like, we got there. And. Yeah. So once you get on the experiment. You break up with your original partner, you start dating the other people.

[Zayna]

Time out.

[Hashim]

Yep.

[Zayna]

I just can't even imagine bringing my man onto a show with beautiful women.

[Hashim]

Everyone was stunning, by the way. My season.

[Zayna]

Your cast was stunning.

[Hashim]

I walked in, I'm like, oh, there are tens all around.

[Zayna]

And then you're just like, bye, babe. Hopefully one of these women will make you come back to me.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Is that the premise?

[Hashim]

That's how, like, confident I was in my relationship. I'm like, I have nothing to worry about. My man would never cheat.

[Zayna]

Little did you know?

[Hashim]

Little did I know. But like I said, blessing in disguise. So you break up, right? You start dating these other people, and then you do a trial marriage for three weeks with your trial person. So I was with someone, he was with someone. And you don't know what's going on, by the way. It's not like Temptation island where they have the playbacks in real time and you can watch it back. So once you do the three weeks, you switch back over with your original partner. You do three weeks, and you either make a decision to get engaged or move on.

[Zayna]

So do you talk to him at all, or have you talked to him since reunion?

[Hashim]

No.

[Zayna]

Is he dating?

[Hashim]

Do you know? I have no idea. So he blocked me.

[Zayna]

Blocked you?

[Hashim]

It's so funny, because the only reason I found out he blocked me because he was already muted when I was on my healing journey. I was like, you know, you don't want things to be, like, triggering. Like, I was still cool with him, but it's like, I just didn't want to see him on my timeline. So I had went out to drinks with Sandy and Aria right after the reunion. I was just like, girls, I don't care. I went through this. He owed me loyalty. Whatever.

[Zayna]

Yeah, we're good.

[Hashim]

So we were following each other on Instagram afterwards, and I put Sandy's in, and I knew that they had followed each other from the show, and I was like, dang. Did he unfollow her? Cause that's crazy. They used to be mutuals. And then I was like, oh, wait, I'm blocked.

[Zayna]

It's me.

[Hashim]

It's me. I'm the one who's blocked.

[Zayna]

Holy shit.

[Hashim]

So he blocked me, like, really? Right after the reunion.

[Zayna]

I thought he was crazy. I know.

[Hashim]

And I was just like, well, damn.

[Zayna]

I think you've kind of mentioned that a reason why you did issue the ultimatum is because, like, your biological clock is ticking. You've kind of expressed a lot about your journey for wanting to, like, start a family one day and, like, freezing your eggs. How's that journey going for you? And what's that like?

[Hashim]

Yeah, so for my 33rd birthday last year, I decided to take that jump and just do it. I've been. I was talking to my OB for a while. There was a discount.

[Zayna]

There was a sale.

[Hashim]

I was like, what?

[Zayna]

Can we put the discount code at the bottom of the screen?

[Hashim]

Not, like, in a shady way, but there was, like, this fertility clinic that was celebrating their 35th anniversary. So they had, like, a $3,500, like, sale that's actually really cool package, which people know. Like, it's very expensive. So I was like, this is the sign for me to do it. And I was so grateful for that. Still dealing with some hormonal acne from that experiment experience. But I'm just glad that I prioritized myself in that moment. And what that. The real reason, too, is because I didn't want to be in a position where it's like, all right, now I'm 34, you know, and I don't want to settle for just whoever's the most convenient and available and available. Like, I want to make sure whoever I end up being with, father of my kids, you know, it's the right person, right time. And I'm not making a rash decision because of a biological clock, which, you.

[Zayna]

Know, I think that's so empowering. I think it's very empowering. And the fact that you were so public about it. Like, I'm also 34, and I think women our age is kind of, like, taboo to talk about. Like, I don't want to just settle with someone randomly just to have a baby, and I think it's so taboo to even discuss it. So I think it's really powerful of you to open up that. That portal, because I have actually been seeing it a lot on social media about women freezing their AIDS and, like, making it. Their taking the control, like, taking our control back.

[Hashim]

So I think that's cool.

[Zayna]

You're also in your, like, health, wellness era. Like, I'm watching you on social media. You look good. Like, really, really good. Tell me about your. Your wellness journey.

[Hashim]

Yeah, so that is something that has been super important to me during that, like, gray area with JR right after the show where I didn't know what was going on. Very just, like, whiplash of, like, how do we go from here to, like, this extreme? I recognized that I wasn't prioritizing my health. Like, I. I was falling into, like, a depression. Where I wasn't eating, I wasn't moving. Like, I didn't do the things that made me happy. And I had a moment where I was like, this is make or break. You either sink to this depression, or you come out of it and know that God has, like, a bigger plan for you.

[Zayna]

Come on.

[Hashim]

So that is what really initiated my relaunch into fitness and wellness, and it honestly saved me. A combination of God, my friends, family, therapy. It was a holistic thing to the point where I developed a journal. It's a guided journal on healing after a breakup from a holistic standpoint. Because I recognized that going through a breakup is like going through the five stages of grief, right? Like, you have to grieve the relationship that you once had. And the only way to come out of it, like, stronger is, like, letting yourself go through that process. But while you're going through it, it needs to be holistic, mind, body, and soul. So the journal that I developed is something that, like, came out of, like, my personal healing journey, where it goes through the five stages of grief. And each stage takes you through prompts that cover mind, body, and soul to make sure you're not neglecting any part of yourself.

[Zayna]

That's amazing. What's your. Is it done? Is it made? Yeah, it's called.

[Hashim]

It's called purposeful healing.

[Zayna]

Did you bring it?

[Hashim]

I launched it.

[Zayna]

No, I wish we could have put it right here.

[Hashim]

Yeah, it is done. It's just now, like, in production.

[Zayna]

That's amazing. What advice would you give to women or just people in toxic relationships and how to one see those red flags and heal from them? Like, you are sitting here talking about your healing journey, and you're glowing. Like, I can see. See how happy and strong and powerful you are sitting right here. And I think you could offer some amazing advice to girls that are in or were in a similar situation.

[Hashim]

Yeah, no, thank you. I. I would say the one thing that I recognize after that situation is that you have to stop romanticizing red flags. Like, when you see a red flag.

[Zayna]

Say that one more time.

[Hashim]

Stop romanticizing red flags.

[Zayna]

It's not cute.

[Hashim]

It's not cute. It's not hot pink. You know, we're not going to be Colorblin in 2025. You have to take them for what they are and stop holding on to what someone did for you months ago. And also, just like, anyone going through a healing journey, go through it. Like, don't try to move past it, like, super quickly or neglect any part of yourselves. It's okay to Cry. It's okay to be hurt, but don't fall into a sunken place. Like, try and figure out ways to get yourself out of it and seek therapy. Like my therapist. I get chills talking about her. Same.

[Zayna]

I love my girl.

[Hashim]

Hell you. She was the biggest blessing because I was. I exhausted my options of, like, my friends, like, of course. But just having that therapeutic, like, approach to things, she gave me something so pivotal. When I was seeking closure from Jonathan.

[Zayna]

She was like, who's Jonathan?

[Hashim]

Oh, sorry, Junior. My bad. Sorry. She was like, why are you seeking closure from him? Create your own closure. And everything that's happened is, like, evidence that gives you the power to create your own closure. That right there was a turning point.

[Zayna]

For me where I was like, yeah.

[Hashim]

Why am I trying to find closure from someone who has shown me over time, like, how he feels about me? It's. I just need to take the ownership for myself and create my own.

[Zayna]

Are you dating? Are you in a relationship? Are you on the app?

[Hashim]

I am very single right now. Very single, Very single. So I'm in the space in my life where I just want things to organically happen, and I'm not chasing anything. I'm allowing things to just, like, come to me. And so I've been, like, going on dates. I've been, like, dating, and it's been really difficult, honestly.

[Zayna]

Why?

[Hashim]

It's been once again, now that I have, like, this new, like, level of understanding red flags and just, like, paying attention to the signs early on, someone's consistency in how they show up and, like, aligning their words and actions hit different. Where it's like, someone can actively pursue me, then I. They have my attention. If you have my attention, know it's rare, right? So take advantage or move out the way so someone else can create space.

[Zayna]

Like our girl.

[Hashim]

Don't. Don't play girl.

[Zayna]

Let's talk some current events, some fun stuff.

[Hashim]

Okay.

[Zayna]

Yeah, let's shake off Jonathan and talk about some. Something else. So recently in the news, Kim Kardashian. Yeah, Northwest. And a name I don't want to say, but we will mention. Kanye. They are. Are you caught up on what's going on?

[Hashim]

I'm caught. Yeah. I'm caught up.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

It's crazy.

[Zayna]

Okay, so Kim has been considering asking a judge to strip Kanye of joint legal custody of their four kids because of Kanye's decision to release his new track with Diddy that features their daughter on it. Oh, another name I don't want to say. Diddy.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Yeah, Diddy and daughter should never Be in the same sentence, in my opinion. What's going on? Okay, tell me your hot take before I. Because I'm already starting to sweat.

[Hashim]

Okay. No, me too.

[Zayna]

Honestly.

[Hashim]

No, it's a lot. So, I mean, my hot take, I have a very just, like, balanced approach to things. And I think with co parenting, like, at the crux of, like, what's happening, like, in, you know, publicly, it's co parenting. How do you healthily co parent? And I really think at the end of the day, like, they should both look at it and say, like, what is the best for these kids? Not ego.

[Zayna]

Not what's best for the business.

[Hashim]

Not what's best for the business.

[Zayna]

Not what Kim can profit from, not what he can profit from. How is this, like, what are we teaching the kids and how are we protecting the kids? And that's just my humble fucking opinion. Yeah, no little girl should be on no track with Diddy. Diddy shouldn't be putting out music. Who's watching that? Prison.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

What's going on?

[Hashim]

I don't understand how any of this is going on right now. Like, honestly, don't.

[Zayna]

Why is he releasing music?

[Hashim]

I don't understand any of that. But it's literally just coming down to, like, what is best for the child. And I think that gets so lost.

[Zayna]

It can't be that. It can't be that. In a world where there's a zillion things that your daughter could be doing, that can't be it.

[Hashim]

This is. This is a lot. I cannot imagine.

[Zayna]

Not on my bingo card at all.

[Hashim]

No.

[Zayna]

Okay. Moving on and moving forward. Wendy Williams.

[Hashim]

Oh, my heart.

[Zayna]

What?

[Hashim]

Tell me. I mean, it just breaks for her. I don't. Like, it's just, once again, things happening publicly. It's just, like, one of those things. It's like, dang, how did we get here?

[Zayna]

For those of y'all that don't know, Wendy Williams is under this, like, protective guardianship. And she has been trying to convince the people around her that she is capable and that she is able to kind of live her own life freely without being in what she called a prison. So she's currently trying to get herself free from this guardianship, literally fighting for her little life. And if I have any say, I say freer.

[Hashim]

Yeah, well, if we have saves, free.

[Zayna]

Wendy, Listen, Wendy is my girl. Like, I'm such a. How you doing? Like, I watched her show religiously. I loved, like, the way she would kind of go on with her guests and have people on, and she was just so real and raw. And, like, I watched a bunch of her documentaries. So obsessed. I'm so obsessed. And, like, I watched a lot of how she came up in the industry and how respected she was and how she kind of had to bully her way through to get where she's at. And then the latest documentary that she put out where it's just like.

[Hashim]

That was really sad.

[Zayna]

It was eye opening. Because it's like in the blink of.

[Hashim]

An eye, everything could just be stripped away.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

Taken from you. Independence, just like everything that you worked for, all of a sudden, you have no control over it. Not where you feel like a prisoner.

[Zayna]

An actual. She literally said she feels like a prisoner.

[Hashim]

That's so sad.

[Zayna]

Like a big dream of mine. Wendy, if you ever watch what's the Reality? I feel like I would hate to have her on this couch, but I feel like the interview would shift and I'd be like, now I'm being interviewed. Like, I don't know. That would be a dream.

[Hashim]

So.

[Zayna]

Hey, Wendy.

[Hashim]

We're manifesting. Wendy, right here. Imagine in this seat.

[Zayna]

Imagine I get the exclusive.

[Hashim]

Look, anything is possible.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Okay, y'all. So Zayna and I are officially joined by our new friend, Hashim. Welcome to what's the Reality.

[Ben]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Zayna]

How are you?

[Ben]

I'm good. I'm good. This LA traffic is crazy.

[Zayna]

So for y'all that don't know, Hashim is from Netflix's new hottest show, Temptation Island. We're so happy to have you here. So tell me a bit about yourself.

[Ben]

Yeah. So my name is Hashim. I grew up in Florida, went to Princeton, played football and basketball.

[Zayna]

Just casually close out. Princeton, Princeton casual. What'd you study?

[Ben]

Sociology.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

See, I tried to use a little bit of it on the show.

[Zayna]

How'd that work out?

[Ben]

You know.

[Zayna]

You'Re sitting here.

[Ben]

You know, sitting here.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

After that, got my master's in Instructional technology from Bloomberg University, ended up moving to Texas. Was in Dallas for a couple of years, and I'm in Austin. Me and my boys, we started up a tech startup called Pilot. It's like a ticketing and booking software. And. Yeah, then Temptation island happened.

[Zayna]

I was going to say, with all that on your plate, how the hell did you get involved in Temptation Island? You're starting businesses and getting masters.

[Ben]

Product wasn't done yet, so I had to fill my time a little bit.

[Zayna]

Okay, so how'd you get involved into Temptation Island?

[Ben]

I just got a DM1 random Sunday. I'm sure you got this. Well, both of y'all got the Same thing. And then I had an interview and then like that Friday they sent me my flight. So my, my process was super quick.

[Zayna]

Really?

[Hashim]

That's crazy.

[Ben]

Yeah, mine was like two weeks before filming got, got on the.

[Zayna]

Scouted and accepted and flown out in.

[Hashim]

Two weeks is crazy. Wait, what made you say yes?

[Ben]

It's Netflix. But I mean I was open to. I went into just being like very open, open minded, which I'm sure you guys both did. It was just excited for the.

[Zayna]

Surely you were single or.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not one of the ones that goes on with.

[Hashim]

You were really single, Single, single, single, single.

[Ben]

I was single, single. DMs was dry.

[Zayna]

Oh no. Okay. So perfect opportunity.

[Ben]

100%. 100% perfect opportunity.

[Zayna]

Wait, so they tell you the concept of the show and what did they like, how did they describe what your role is gonna be on the show and how did you be like, you know what? That's me. That's what I'm gonna fucking do.

[Ben]

Honestly. Honestly. When I got on the phone with David the producer, he was more excited than I. He was just like, you know, we've been looking for someone like you. I didn't know what that meant. I was like, I mean, I don't know what that means, but I'll take it. Now I see what they meant. But yeah, it was, it was. They described it. I kind of seen a couple episodes of prior seasons. Once the interview process started, I, I wasn't going to be the type to be doing whatever on tv. It's not me. But I was like, this is a respectful, tasteful way to still do it.

[Zayna]

Sure. For sure.

[Ben]

Still get you get your off.

[Zayna]

So how'd your family feel about it?

[Ben]

My family loved it.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

[Ben]

I mean I was the like the sweetheart on the show.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

I feel like, I feel like all the guys in our house were. But now they loved it. I don't think my mom's watched it yet. I got, I got a couple of texts from my nieces. 18 year old, that's at FAMU. And then a 16 year old in high school on the scene where I was like 24.

[Hashim]

So when you explain the show to your family, like what was their relationship? Yeah.

[Zayna]

Cause it's not like you went on in a relationship and you're like, I just want to test my relationship and see like if she's really about me or I'm about her. You went on specifically.

[Hashim]

I'm tempting specifically to tempt and wreck.

[Ben]

Yeah. I don't think I told them what the Right.

[Zayna]

Okay. Something got left out. Something got left out.

[Hashim]

It's just a show. Right.

[Zayna]

I'm just going to kind of like Love is Blind, but not really.

[Ben]

I'm just going to Hawaii, you know, eat some. Eat some fried rice, quick trip. You just won't hear from me for a month. No, but my parents are older. They don't even. They didn't even have Netflix, so they didn't know. They didn't even know what it was, to be honest.

[Zayna]

Okay, so tell me about your experience on the show. What was it like? Is it anything that we didn't see?

[Ben]

Yeah, no, I. I had a good time. I had a good time. The best part was probably the guys in our house. We had a really good group. We made it. I feel like we made the girls feel comfortable. Our side is a little different. We had to be like the, you know, to put the sociology degree to use. We were like the therapists of the show.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Which is. Which is fun. Like, we were just trying to be there for the girls as much as we could. Give them advice. If we ever attempt. They attempted. If we. If we couldn't. Friends Island. Which is. Which is fine.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

Friends Island. Island.

[Zayna]

I heard that's what they're calling it. So you in particular, you were interested in Shantae and it looked like she was still in love with Brian.

[Ben]

Situation.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell us more about that whole situation.

[Ben]

Yeah, look, I think Shantae is great. I don't think I fully got to experience her in terms of her personality.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

She was very closed off up until like the last three days of filming. I just think she was. She didn't. She didn't allow herself to enjoy the entire journey and process of it.

[Zayna]

Brian did. He allowed himself to enjoy the experience.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Is that right?

[Ben]

No, he did.

[Hashim]

Yeah, he did.

[Ben]

Yes. Apparently he found. Found out at the end. And that's crazy.

[Hashim]

Wait, sorry, but with Temptation island, is that considered like a hall pass or. It's like people are supposed to still.

[Ben]

They did set boundaries. She said it. They showed her saying it. They said boundaries. Nothing physical.

[Hashim]

And he crossed physical. I'm so catching.

[Ben]

From what I hear. From what I hear.

[Zayna]

From what was. From what was said. Oh, yeah. From what I hear, he did what he said.

[Hashim]

That's crazy.

[Zayna]

Okay, so from what you hear, are there any secrets? Some BTs, some juicy tea that went on that we didn't get to see with you and anyone else or you.

[Ben]

No, I mean. So me and Shantae, we went with the friend route. You could kind of tell. She was just like, even in the first day, like, she was just running from me. And there's a scene where we're dancing or trying to dance and like, I don't know, that whole day she was kind of just running away from. Yeah, but I. Which is fine. Which is fine. But granted, if I had a girlfriend and I was on that show, one, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have went on the show. But to be clear, I would have wanted her or my girl to act the way she did. She did amazing.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

Like, she didn't give opportunity for any clips to even look bad. That's why, like, I think Brianne even said it. Like, she didn't do anything. Like, she was never talking to a boy in any of. Any of the clips. She, she. She did what she was supposed to do. Yeah, right. So commend her for that. At the end. She did what was, what was best for her, in her opinion. Sure, most people would disagree, but that's.

[Zayna]

Her life, her business.

[Ben]

It's her life, it's her. It's whatever. Whatever worked for her.

[Zayna]

I kind of feel like you two shows are a little bit similar, but just like, I don't know, they're similar, but different. Where it's like the Ultimatum, Temptation island, where it's marriage minded more. And this one is more like, I don't know, just testing, boyfriend, girlfriend. But it's also you're still being tempted. Do you feel like you could have taken J.R. onto Temptation Island?

[Hashim]

Here's the thing. If I sign up for Temptation Island, I know what I'm signing up for. You know what I mean? Like, that's, you know, y'all both to be tempted. Right, Right. But I feel like with Ultimatum, it's.

[Zayna]

Like you are in a marriage. You're.

[Hashim]

Yeah, you're in a marriage. You're taking it, like, a little bit more seriously. But I will say, if they merged the two shows and I was able to see what was happening in the trial marriage, I would have.

[Zayna]

Things would have been different.

[Hashim]

I would have been like, okay, that's the type of time we're on. Right? Gone. So I think that's the different. The main difference in the show is that people are able to see in real time what's going down and still knowing that they're being recorded in 4K and knowing that partner's gonna see it and wilding out is crazy.

[Zayna]

That's crazy.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Yeah, that's wild. What.

[Ben]

How would you have acted on Temptation Island? Would you still like I've had fun or been really closed off.

[Hashim]

I think I would acted the same, honestly.

[Ben]

I mean, fun in terms of, like, personality, you seem like you have a very bubbly personality.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

So I feel like Zayn would have been fun. I don't think she would have been, like, disrespectful, but I think you would have had a lot of fun.

[Ben]

There's. There's a way to do it. Like, Ashley and Tay, like, they were having fun.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Like, before they were like, hey, we're single now.

[Hashim]

I think I would have honestly been the same that I was on ultimatum, because I definitely was open to it, even with, like, the dating and Scottie, and I was just like, all right, I'm open to this experiment experience, but I wouldn't have crossed physical boundaries.

[Zayna]

Right.

[Hashim]

It's like, that's just to me, like, straight respect. But I probably. I would have definitely been flirty, like, hey, let's have fun. But I'm. I don't know. That's just me in general. Like, people think my personality is very flirty, but I'm just a very friendly person.

[Ben]

Same.

[Hashim]

Okay. Similarities.

[Ben]

Same.

[Zayna]

Okay, Similarities.

[Hashim]

Okay.

[Zayna]

Same. Same. So are you single?

[Ben]

I am single.

[Zayna]

Ooh. I have a single friend.

[Hashim]

Damn.

[Ben]

She right here.

[Hashim]

You got a lot of single friends?

[Zayna]

I got girl single friends. Yeah, she right here.

[Hashim]

Her name is Zayn. I'm just kidding.

[Ben]

Zayn, would you have been tempted?

[Hashim]

Is this blind? I would have been a little tempted. Is this a blind date right now? Edie, what are you doing?

[Ben]

I felt like this was a blind.

[Hashim]

Are you setting us up right now?

[Zayna]

You're welcome. Name the first girl. Amber. You're welcome. So are you single? You're single? Are you dating?

[Ben]

Open dating? Yes.

[Zayna]

Open to dating. Okay. Are you on apps? Are you going out? How are you meeting people?

[Ben]

No, I'm. I don't go out. Honestly. Honestly, with work, it. Me going out is. Is working okay. In a way. So I just. I don't know. I don't really have time that much. I'm traveling around a lot.

[Zayna]

Do you have a type?

[Ben]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zayna]

What's the type? What's your type?

[Ben]

Okay, I'll be honest. I'll be honest, as I've got some 30, by the way. So as I've gotten older, you know, I don't necessarily go for looks. I go for more vibe. Vibe. Aura.

[Zayna]

Sounds familiar.

[Ben]

If she can dress, she gotta be able to dress. AD's over here. Check, check.

[Zayna]

My girl can dress and she's a vibe, but go ahead.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Has to have her own thing going on. That's cause I do too. So it's like this.

[Zayna]

Honestly, this couldn't be more perfect. What are you guys doing after this?

[Hashim]

I'm crying.

[Ben]

Perfect mask.

[Zayna]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Hashim]

Oh my God. Call him, call him, call him. Is the AC on in here?

[Zayna]

It is. It's actually cold.

[Hashim]

Relax.

[Zayna]

Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead. She has to have something going on. You like him? Busy.

[Hashim]

Cute.

[Ben]

Yeah. Fit. You know, I like to work out a little bit. I have a huge sweet tooth though, so we gotta be able to do both.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

I'm a big back fellow. Big back.

[Zayna]

Big back unite.

[Hashim]

Big back unite. Then you burn it. All right.

[Ben]

That's the only reason why I work out. Just so I can eat whatever I want.

[Zayna]

Okay. Balance is key. Okay. Yeah. So let's play a little game called Deal Breakers. I'm gonna list a few things and you just tell me if that's something that you would allow or rejecting your relationship, situationship or whatever.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Hashim]

Okay, let's do it.

[Zayna]

So your person, I don't know how serious you are, whatever, you take it how you want, but they won't post you on their Instagram. Deal breaker or no? Not a deal breaker. You don't care.

[Ben]

No.

[Zayna]

Casual.

[Hashim]

This is layer. Is this a yes or no question? Whatever.

[Zayna]

Whatever is speaking to your soul right now. I want you to.

[Hashim]

Okay, so I've been in a situation where a person didn't want to post me. And I thought it was because. Oh, this is like your business page. Like, I want to respect that. I'm a very understandable person.

[Zayna]

Yeah, you are.

[Hashim]

But then realized later it was like, because you probably want to do some shady stuff.

[Zayna]

Right. Because you have a wife and kids.

[Hashim]

That's typically how like literally.

[Zayna]

So am I lying in my situation?

[Ben]

No, but.

[Hashim]

But I would want to know like the real reason why.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

Behind it.

[Zayna]

Right.

[Hashim]

So I wouldn't say like automatic deal breaker, but if it's giving red flaggy, like we are no longer blinded to red flags.

[Zayna]

Okay. So it's kind a deal breaker.

[Hashim]

Ish caveat. Like explain.

[Zayna]

Okay. But not for you.

[Ben]

No.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

I mean, in past relationships. Yes. As I've gotten older, I mean, I'm like an Instagram person. I mean, I guess. I guess now I have to be. But welcome, welcome, welcome. Yeah. So. But now. No, not necessarily.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Hashim]

Why would you not want to post your partner?

[Zayna]

Yeah, why would a man. Maybe not you, but why would you think a man would not want to post their person?

[Ben]

No, I'm I'm down. Supposed to post my partner. So you said if I'm not getting posted.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But why would you. Because we need some advice. Like, if a man did not want to post our girl, Zayna, why would you? What would you think the reason could be?

[Ben]

If he's not posting her, there's something wrong.

[Zayna]

But I'mma leave and let y'all. I'm on the wrong damn show.

[Hashim]

This is my water.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Zayna]

I feel like I walked into something.

[Ben]

Y'all didn't get to see it. I'm a little goofy. I didn't get to see it on the show.

[Zayna]

Look at her.

[Hashim]

I love this for her. I love this for her.

[Zayna]

Okay, period. You should be posted point blank, period. Okay, next question. The person that you're with dating, whatever, they don't want kids. Is that a deal breaker? Is she.

[Hashim]

It's a deal breaker. Oh, you asked her?

[Zayna]

No. You know, you got something to say?

[Ben]

Go ahead. Go ahead.

[Hashim]

It's a deal breaker.

[Zayna]

Deal breaker.

[Hashim]

Because I know I definitely want kids. We have some frozen options, but, like, I definitely.

[Zayna]

One's in the freezer.

[Hashim]

Ones in the freezer. I froze my eggs, by the way. Not that you needed to know. Not that you needed to know that at all.

[Ben]

How young are you?

[Hashim]

I am 34. Fresh. 34 as of like, two weeks ago. So you missed my birthday, have it bladed. Thank you. But, yeah, I really want kids, so I feel like if someone doesn't want to have kids, I know in the long term, I'll, you know.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

Not resent them, but I'll be sad.

[Zayna]

Yeah. For sure.

[Hashim]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

You know what you want?

[Hashim]

I want to.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Oh, what about you?

[Ben]

Deal breaker or not, it's not necessarily a deal breaker, but I do want kids, so.

[Zayna]

Could be a deal breaker.

[Ben]

It could. It could be.

[Zayna]

Well, yeah, long term.

[Ben]

My thing is, I just. I don't want a baby moms, so, like, that's my thing. Yeah. My brother and sister did the whole route, and they're older, they're like, like 48, 46. I've seen the whole baby mama, baby daddy thing, so I don't want that. So it's not the right person. I'm just not gonna have kids.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

And I can go that route. But if it's the right person, then clearly I want a kid or a couple.

[Hashim]

How many do you want?

[Zayna]

Two. Huh?

[Ben]

Two or three?

[Hashim]

Boy and a girl or like, you want two boys?

[Ben]

I just don't want three girls. I'm down with two girls, one boy, but I. I Got four nieces, so that's. I need at least one.

[Zayna]

My mom had five girls. Five?

[Hashim]

Oh, wow. I'm one of four, but it's like three girls and a boy.

[Zayna]

So you're okay with two to three?

[Ben]

Two, three.

[Zayna]

I'm just taking notes over here. Okay. They're still friends with their ex.

[Hashim]

Absolutely. No, that's a deal breaker. That was a. That's a deal breaker for me because why you look over like that?

[Ben]

I was gonna chime in.

[Hashim]

I'm like, you friends with your ex? Because I feel like if you have a lingering ex, there is still some type of tie. There's some type of soul tie. Like, why. Why are they lingering? Why are they around? Unless it's, like, an ex from middle school. That doesn't count. I'm talking about, like, real life. We've dated, like, two, three years ago. There should be no tie to your ex at all. Sorry. I'm very passionate about that.

[Zayna]

Very strong about that.

[Hashim]

Your turn.

[Zayna]

So wait, basically what you're saying, you don't have any ties with your exes?

[Hashim]

I don't. Well, actually. Okay, caveat. I mean, I'm friends with them on Instagram.

[Zayna]

Is that considered a tie?

[Hashim]

I don't think so. I'm talking about, like, you guys text, you call.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Going out for lunch.

[Hashim]

You, like, hang out. Like, your families are still, like, super intertwined.

[Zayna]

Yeah, that's.

[Hashim]

I just think there should be, like, a clean break. Agree between that. But there's obviously, like, room to explain if it's, like, a high school exit, whatever. Childhood crush, whatever.

[Ben]

Sir, can I curse on here?

[Zayna]

Yes, of course. We have a beat button.

[Ben]

Are you doing.

[Hashim]

No, look, I'll be the. Beep, beep.

[Zayna]

So cannot. That is a deal breaker.

[Ben]

Friends with the X9.

[Hashim]

Why are you friends?

[Ben]

You could. You can still be friends on Instagram if y'all ended cordially. Like, if it was like, hey, we just not working. But if one of y'all was cheating. Nah, can't do it.

[Zayna]

Wait, why?

[Ben]

Just something about it. Just don't sit right with me. Just don't sit right with me.

[Zayna]

So if you're a current girlfriend, say you had a current girlfriend and she was friends on Instagram with a man that cheated on her.

[Ben]

Why would you. Why would you still want to soul tie? Why are y'all connected? Are y'all trauma bonding? Like, what's going on?

[Hashim]

Trauma bonding?

[Ben]

Look, y'all don't clip that up either and make us about.

[Zayna]

Yeah, we won't do that to you. We got you okay, let's move forward to your cringiest dating moments. Or like you were on a date and this happened or somebody that you were dating were just like pretty cringy. You look like you have a story revved up.

[Hashim]

Xander, my first happen.

[Zayna]

You look like you just went through a Rolodex of cringy story.

[Hashim]

I actually did.

[Zayna]

Holy shit. Was that on my face?

[Hashim]

Oh my God. Like, I should have like.

[Zayna]

No. Okay, I'm gonna let you go.

[Hashim]

Okay. I mean, obviously there's a Rolodex of stories, but the one that pops to mind. So I moved to New York for like 11 months. Didn't make it a whole year. Co happened. Whatever. I felt like during that time, dating in New York was just like so crazy. I was on the apps and this guy one, the first day he asked me to come over and I was like, I'm not doing that. Like, what are we like, huh?

[Zayna]

The first day.

[Hashim]

That's crazy. So then, because the first date was just so out of the box crazy, you know, he was like, all right, well, why don't you come to my job? And he was like a part time bartender.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Hashim]

So I'm thinking, I'm like, why are you going?

[Zayna]

Ok, now you're going to the office, right?

[Hashim]

So I'm like, okay, like at least it's not your home.

[Zayna]

And while he was working or girl.

[Hashim]

So I'm thinking like, this is after your shift and like, you know, it's a bar, so maybe it's a vibe and you're not working, but we can like chill. This man was actually working, so.

[Zayna]

Oh, he wanted you to tip him, probably.

[Hashim]

So we're at the bar, right? It's still prime time.

[Zayna]

What?

[Hashim]

And he's literally like working. So it's like, hey, how are you? Like, tell me about your childhood. All right, cool. Oh, margarita. All right, let me go make that margarita. Real fast.

[Ben]

I would have left so fast.

[Zayna]

I would have left.

[Ben]

What?

[Zayna]

You know what I would have done? I would have ordered a drink and talk to somebody else while he. I would have been on another date. I would have called somebody else actually working.

[Hashim]

So he invited me on the first date to his job so that he could just give me a free drink and I don't know, me tip him. It was really strange.

[Ben]

You tiptoe?

[Hashim]

I did not.

[Zayna]

Did you see him again?

[Hashim]

I did not. I was like, this is wild.

[Zayna]

How long did you stay?

[Hashim]

I mean, I definitely stayed like way too long. So. Yeah, that's my life.

[Zayna]

Casual. Do you have anything I can Top that.

[Ben]

I could top that. No. Okay, so I live in Austin. When I first got out there, went on a date, went to grab some drinks. For some reason. I don't know if this is, like, just all. Just in Austin or this is just universal. Yeah, universal. Y'all let me know. Okay, first question. She goes, what's your. What's your sign? That's not bad. It's fine. I'm a Leo. So, okay, what's your moon rising? Fire? What is that? I don't know. I don't know the terms.

[Hashim]

I don't even. Okay, so it's moon. It's rising. That's all I know.

[Ben]

Okay, so moon rising. I know there's a fire sign in there somewhere.

[Hashim]

I mean, that's just like, one of the. One of the things categories.

[Ben]

So she was like, okay, what's your moons like? Trying to piece things together.

[Zayna]

Moon, sun, rising.

[Ben]

She's like, okay. She's like, okay, what time were you born? She's like, really trying to figure this.

[Zayna]

She was trying to do your whole chart.

[Ben]

She's trying to do my whole chart. This is our first time ever. Speaking, talking.

[Hashim]

That's crazy.

[Ben]

She's like, like, what's your. What time were you born? I'm like, I don't know.

[Zayna]

Like, yeah, I don't know.

[Ben]

She's like, can you call your mom? I'm very nice, right?

[Zayna]

You called your mom?

[Ben]

I'm very nice. I called my mom.

[Hashim]

You called your mom?

[Ben]

I'm like, she's up. I'm always staying up late for no reason. Called her. I said, hey, mom, what's my. Like, what time was I born? She said. Rhonda hung up. I said, yeah, 1202. Yeah, that's. Really. Yeah. Never talked to that girl again.

[Hashim]

Were y'all compatible based on.

[Ben]

I gave a fake time, so I don't know. It could be off.

[Zayna]

Could be. Could be off a little bit. Did you ever see her again?

[Ben]

No, never saw her again. Never saw again.

[Zayna]

Damn.

[Ben]

Probably for the better.

[Zayna]

Yeah. I don't know too much about zodiac signs and the risings and the fallings of it all freak me out as well. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Okay, well, thank you guys for sharing.

[Ben]

I got a question. Question for y'all.

[Zayna]

Oh.

[Ben]

Have y'all ever. Have y'all ever been blocked by someone you were on a. On a show with? Not just me.

[Hashim]

I've been blocked too.

[Ben]

By someone on your show?

[Hashim]

By my ex.

[Zayna]

Did you just get blocked?

[Ben]

Yeah. I'll give y'all some tea. Shantae blocked me, like, a couple days before the show.

[Hashim]

Before the show?

[Zayna]

Before it aired.

[Ben]

Before it aired. I thought we were.

[Hashim]

That's what happened to me, too.

[Zayna]

Wait, were you guys in communication before the show aired?

[Ben]

So I had never reached out. Yeah, she just, like, commented on, like, a couple things here and there. And then all of a sudden, you woke up blocked.

[Hashim]

How'd you find out?

[Zayna]

Yeah, how'd you find out?

[Ben]

One of my homies asked me, like, what the girl from the show looked like.

[Zayna]

That's awkward.

[Ben]

And I was like, yeah, I'll show you. I think Shell her name was.

[Zayna]

Shut up.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

How does it make you feel?

[Ben]

I don't think it was. I don't think it was. Off of her own strength, I think.

[Zayna]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Understood. Understood. Because like we said, there's no need to be friends with your past, so.

[Hashim]

You gotta look forward to the future.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

Stay in the present.

[Zayna]

So do you have any idea if Shantae and Brian are still together?

[Ben]

I'll be honest. I have not talked to them or nor have I ever met. What's. Brian? Sure. Yeah. No, no. Have I ever met Brian. There was an article that came out today about all of the couples. Apparently, they're still together.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Ben]

And, you know, they. They fought through it. They. They apparently figured it out. I'm happy for. For Shantae.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Long as she's happy, I'm good.

[Zayna]

That seems to be, like, your theme throughout. As long as she's happy.

[Ben]

She's happy.

[Zayna]

Yeah, she's happy. I love that for her. Yeah. You're. You seem pretty stand up. I love that. Have I been blocked? Couldn't tell you. Did I do some blocking? Hell, yeah. But I don't know. I don't know if I'm blocked. Couldn't care less.

[Ben]

So I didn't. I wasn't hurt by it. I was just, like. I was just trying to. I was shocked because it was like, we didn't have. Like that.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hashim]

It is shocking.

[Zayna]

Very shocking.

[Hashim]

Especially when you, like, find out.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Randomly. Yeah.

[Ben]

Oh, no, I'm black, bro. I don't know what to say.

[Hashim]

You gotta go on your page.

[Zayna]

Figure it out. Give me your phone. Give me your phone.

[Ben]

Let me check. Are you. Oh, yeah. He's like, yeah, I got it.

[Zayna]

Oh, damn. Okay, well, listen to you real quick. Yeah, I love that. No, sometimes, like, the blocking is the blessing. Like, whatever you got blocked for is just. We'll leave it at that. So y'all. A few weeks Ago, I had the opportunity to speak with Ben from Love Is Blind season eight.

[Ben]

I actually met him in Austin.

[Hashim]

Oh, really?

[Ben]

Yeah, during south by Southwest. Like.

[Zayna]

Oh, yeah, a lot of.

[Ben]

Yeah, a lot of the. Love is Blind.

[Zayna]

A lot of Love is Blind. Yeah. They had a whole thing set up for Love is Blind cast.

[Ben]

I didn't recognize. He was just like, hey, really? Yeah, I didn't recognize him.

[Zayna]

Interesting. So I had an opportunity to speak with him after their reunion, and it was a lot about the topics that came up on his season with his then fiance, Sarah, and she brought up a lot of things about, like, Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, LGBTQ community, and he just had a lot of nothing to say about it.

[Hashim]

How did your conversation with him go?

[Zayna]

Yeah, well, we have been here. Thank you for coming to what's the Reality?

[Sarah]

Thank you for having me.

[Zayna]

Of course. How are you?

[Sarah]

Doing well.

[Zayna]

Doing well.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Because last time I saw you, we were at the reunion. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. It was definitely interesting experience, as you probably know.

[Zayna]

Yeah. So update me on life.

[Hashim]

What.

[Zayna]

What are we up to?

[Sarah]

Life is interesting. Yeah. Just kind of in a. In a limbo phase right now, figuring out how to kind of maneuver through everything, trying to keep it as normal as possible, but with the show. Yes, exactly right.

[Zayna]

No need to keep it normal.

[Sarah]

So trying to figure out the best way to deal with the new normal.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we dating? Are we single?

[Sarah]

Yeah. Completely single.

[Zayna]

Oh, yeah. Completely single.

[Sarah]

Yeah, completely single. I've obviously, you know, Minneapolis is small, so everything's pretty crazy. And, you know, when had. When nothing had come out yet, I knew it was going to, so I didn't really date and wanted to avoid bringing anyone into this whole crazy situation. But now that it's out and stuff, I'm a little bit more open to, you know, meeting someone if they come around.

[Zayna]

Okay. Are you still friends with people from the cast? Do you still talk to anyone?

[Sarah]

Yeah. So the whole cast is pretty close. I would say. Obviously, there's the little subgroups, but for the most part, I think we're all pretty good friends.

[Zayna]

Okay. Who are you closest with?

[Sarah]

I would say me and Alex are really close. We both have built a big bond through going through this whole story. And obviously the hugs you've seen on our season stuff, those were some of my favorite parts. And then Dave, with our backgrounds of both being baseball players at the University of Minnesota, we had that when we were in the lounge to talk about. And then just from there, we've kind of built a friendship.

[Zayna]

Love that I think that's one of the most amazing things to come from this whole experience is, like, the friendships that you are able to cultivate. But I do wanna dive deep into, like, you and Sarah and how all that.

[Sarah]

We don't need to talk about that.

[Zayna]

Sarah who? Right. No. So obviously, I'm all over social media and I'm watching kind of the backlash that you're getting from conversations specifically that you had with Sarah around, like, lgbtq, Black Lives Matter, and everyone's kind of saying that you responded in a very particular, almost robotic, if I do say so myself, manner one. Why did you respond like that? And is there anything you want to clear up?

[Sarah]

Yeah, definitely. It's something that I am kind of embarrassed about how I handled that conversation. And as you know, they only show snippets of those conversations, and the snippet they chose, even though I did say those words, wasn't really the outcome of that. Of that conversation. We talked about that for a long time through there. But, yeah, my opinion, even though it was robotic and such, it just comes from a place of more curiosity. And I hadn't had someone kind of hit me hard with those questions before. And I think it's really important because it was something that I knew I had to think about growing up. I should have ideas on how I approach these social issues. And that was something, even before the show, I was diving into because I have friends that are lgbtq, I have friends that are black, and, you know, all part of these different minority groups. And so I want to have more perspective to what they go through. And as a white male, you know, I am privileged to not have to, like, I can avoid those things and I can avoid talking about them if, you know, I want to. And sadly enough, I had done that in the past. So even before going on the show, I knew it was something I wanted to, you know, open my mind up and do self development there. And then having Sarah kind of jump into it with her strong views, even though it kind of hit me, I don't want to say off guard, but it hit me to the point where I didn't know how to talk about it at the time. I think she knew my heart and she knew where I was at to be confident enough to get engaged because our views weren't different. It was just she was at a level that I was trying to get to.

[Zayna]

Okay, so. And I hear that. How old are you?

[Sarah]

28.

[Zayna]

28. Okay, so you did mention that you do have a lot of privilege of where you don't have to experience or talk about conversations that you don't want to have, but in your own city. George Floyd, how do you navigate through life knowing that that took place and you are able to just kind of turn the other cheek to it?

[Sarah]

Yeah. That George Floyd situation was awful. And I know in the pods, I didn't necessarily have a full 100%, like, answer like that to Sarah. And that's part of me being embarrassed and owning up to kind of how I handled that situation. Not the best. And it was one of those moments where I had grown up with trying to avoid conflict in all situations.

[Zayna]

Seems like to be the Minnesota way.

[Sarah]

Yeah, Right.

[Zayna]

We're not ruffling feathers.

[Sarah]

Exactly. So as I'm not proud of it, but I definitely was like, that's happening in the city. I'm not a part of that. I'm just gonna stay out of it and not think about it. So that was part of, you know, being privileged. I could be able to do that and not have to think about it or cause conflict. But am I proud of it? No. That's something that, you know, going back, I really should have taken that moment to learn from it. And there's been a lot of great conversations I've had with people since the show, since meeting Sarah, that we've dug into those kind of conflicting or, you know, controversial topics. And I'm over here avoiding these conversations in the past because I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings or whatever, but it's done the opposite. It's grown those relationships and built those friendships and, you know, has impacted my perspective on a lot of those things.

[Zayna]

What are those conversations like?

[Sarah]

They're just very open to curiosity and understanding. You know, a lot of them have been with, you know, my friends and family about, you know, the fact that it could have been a family member that was George Floyd, or it could have been someone or these other tragedies of people of, you know, of authority taking advantage. And it could be a loved one, could be a close friend, and, you know, fortunate for me it hasn't been. But to talk with people and see that their fears are real, that it could have been them, and for me to know that if it was them, I would be heartbroken and it would be impactful to me. So just because it wasn't doesn't mean that I should ignore it.

[Zayna]

Yeah. How do you feel that you'll move in life now knowing what you know or knowing what you don't know?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

How do you feel you're gonna be Moving forward now.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So I think I'm just gonna continue to obviously strive to have those tough conversations. And like I said, the part of this was very self motivated. Even though Sarah said no to me at the altar, I was still motivated to build this side of me and educate myself and really have those conversations and not avoid them. And so just continuing to do that and I become more open to it because of how well they've gone.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And so having those conversations have not only changed my perspective and impacted it, but also just helped so many friendships and relationships blossom.

[Zayna]

And so there wasn't just the Black Lives Matter conversation, there was also the LGBQ conversations where you kind of referred to a community as that or they or that. Like very much like almost like you had an opinion in your head of how you wanted to refer to people that were not like you. And to me, it was a little bit off putting because again, like your privilege shined so bright that you can say, I don't talk about that, I don't deal with that, or I accept that. Do you want to clear that up in.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Why did you respond?

[Sarah]

Again, it comes from the place of I hadn't. I've avoided these conversations.

[Zayna]

Is it that you've avoided these conversations or is it that you were raised in a way where maybe you have an opinion and your default is to avoid?

[Sarah]

Yeah, I think it's definitely something a little bit of both, I would say, because I think growing up I've always wanted my own opinion. But you always fall back or stem to what you were raised believing. And so I think that's part of why I've kind of avoided it. Because growing up in a community that, you know, is always open and loving to everyone, but believes a certain belief system and me not maybe believing that, instead of talking about it with the people that raised me or with the community that raised me, I just was like, I don't know if I believe that, but I'm not gonna bring it up or talk about it because I don't wanna ruffle any feathers here. But I also. Yeah, but also there's this other side that I think I do believe, but because the people I'm around, it might ruffle their feathers and it's a back and forth. And so I chose to avoid it, which as now being, you know, growing up and personal development, I know is not the way to do it.

[Zayna]

Okay. So knowing all that, you know, because the people, we need a clear answer.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

What do you believe? Who, like, who are you? What, what do you know what don't you know? What do you want to know? Like, clarify what you. What you stand for, honestly.

[Sarah]

Yeah, and what I stand for is that I know there's these social issues in this world, and I think the community that I've been a part of in the past maybe had ignored them, but now I'm not necessarily putting signs in my yard, but I'm driving conversations to talk about these conflicts. I think, honestly, a lot of good will come out of this because of people that are like me, that might be scared to talk about it, and being an example of someone that has talked about it with people and not shied away from that and how it's benefited my personal growth and relationships, that's what I'm going to keep doing. And so my beliefs is that Black Lives Matter and the LGBTQ community has some, you know, things that people look at and marginalize them. That's not okay. And I know it's tough because my church comes out as believing that marriage is between a man and a woman. And that was something that I've dealt with in the last year is finding out, you know, do I want to keep going to this church? Do I need to explore other options? And I have, and that's been really great for my personal growth. So, yeah, I'm. I want to say I'm an ally to all those communities, and it's something that I want to make sure that I've cleared up here and that just leading with love and curiosity is, you know, next steps going forward.

[Zayna]

Okay. We love to hear that. We love to hear that. We want you on the right side of history. We don't want you. I think it's just so important because, like you said, you are extremely privileged. And I do want to drive that point home, because there's a lot of us that are watching and being like, this man can just lay down at night and not worry about the things that we worry about or not stress about is your brother, uncle, or nephew coming home. You know, and it's not just about conversations that need to be had. It's about education, and it's about sitting down and watching it on tv, because you'll never. There's only so many conversations that will, like, allow you to feel it. But if you turn on the TV and you're just watching straight white men talk about whatever the fuck they're talking about, you're never gonna feel, you know, and it's more than, I'm an ally. Turn on the TV and watch.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Call up your friends and be like, bro, what is this? Take intentional time to educate you and the people around you.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And you made a good point with understanding that I will never feel what you guys have to go through. And so I was like, how do I impact? How do I do anything? And a lot of the people that, you know are going through it, they're like, we just want you there. We just want you. When you see something come out, check in on us, like, make sure you know how we're feeling and everything. And that's something that I was reluctant to do because I didn't want to talk about it because I was avoiding it. But now, obviously, those relationships have grown and it's been honestly really beautiful to see.

[Zayna]

So a lot of eyes are going to be on you and a lot of people that relate to you and their, I guess, lack of education on the social things that are happening around them. How are you? How do you plan on using your platform moving forward to, like, shed light on these issues?

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's. You said it. There's going to be a lot of eyes on this whole situation. And I think, like I said, a lot of good's going to come out of this based on people that are in my position that seeing kind of the effects of avoiding and having the privilege to be able to avoid is something that's separating us in this. And so I will. I'll use my platform in the way that is meant to be, you know, positive and outreach and sending light on these issues to help those people that are in my position trying to find their truth and find their way through this. And so because it's a whole, I think, section of people that, you know.

[Zayna]

Haven'T teetering on, it's like you're in the middle, you know what I mean? And I think there's a public perception that you would rather be quiet than speak your actual truth. And I think when you don't stand for anything, you automatically default into falling into what may not be the best option. So my advice to you would be stand for something, even if you don't believe in what, whatever, stand on it and stand in your truth about it. So that way we know how to receive you. Because you don't want us to come up with our own opinion of he's a racist or he doesn't like gay people. Like, you don't want that stand on whatever you stand on. And that would be my advice for you when you're trying to educate people that are similar in a position like you Stand on something so that we don't have to come up with our own opinion of you.

[Sarah]

Yeah. No, thank you for that advice. And, yeah, definitely use that.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Now let's get into some other tea. Okay. Let's talk about these women coming out on social media. Multiple different women.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Seeing that you're manipulating them. And what we kind of saw was you again, teetering about. I don't remember. I do remember. I don't like what's going on with. Clear this up for us.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So the situation with the girl from TikTok specifically, I'm holding on to the fact that I. I don't remember because it was so insignificant.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I will say I was the kind of Division 1 kind of player in college, did talk to a lot of women. And I, you know, wasn't always, you know, I was the one that, like, ghosted or wasn't the most upfronting with, you know, maybe saying things to girls or whatnot. But it was never anything that was super malicious and anything that would be to the point of how much she was reacting. Yet. I wish I remembered more because I think Sarah needed kind of that clarity to be like, here's what happened. Here was the situation. But I couldn't give that to her because I honestly didn't remember because it was so insignificant. It was literally maybe a week, maybe two weeks of, you know, matching on a dating app and then talking and then meeting up at a bar. And then that's pretty much it.

[Zayna]

You met at a bar and that's all you remember?

[Sarah]

We met at a bar? Well, we met at a bar. And the way that the texts and everything were going, I had figured she. We were gonna, like, get physical. And so we had gone back to her place, and then we just kind of made out and such, and I didn't want to stay over, and so then I just ended up leaving.

[Zayna]

Why is she so heartbroken?

[Ben]

And then that's.

[Sarah]

I don't know.

[Zayna]

Yeah, it's.

[Sarah]

It's something where I think, yeah, I, I, I feel bad because if I thought she had this feelings towards me or this connection towards me, I wanted. I would have wanted to apologize or say, like, that I'm sorry, but I was in a place where I ghosted her, and then I don't remember how she reached out to me after or anything that happened after that. I just know I didn't talk to her again.

[Zayna]

And what about the other women coming out?

[Sarah]

The other women? I don't remember. No. Don't remember. No. The other Women, I don't know. There was no one that I really saw that I was like, yeah, I remember that situation or that situation. I know Sarah was bringing up. There's these girls in these comments that are saying things and I'll see their pictures or whatnot. And I don't know if they just don't have accurate pictures or what, but I didn't recognize any of them.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Interesting memory you have. Very interesting.

[Sarah]

Very interesting.

[Zayna]

Very interesting.

[Sarah]

It's a lot going on.

[Zayna]

Yeah. A lot of nothing in.

[Sarah]

A lot of nothing.

[Zayna]

No. Like you remember.

[Sarah]

I honestly don't. With this girl on Tik Tok. I don't remember.

[Zayna]

Okay.

[Sarah]

It was. Well, do you remember all your little hookups in college?

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You remember? Okay.

[Zayna]

Yeah, I would remember if I affected them enough that I made them cry on Tik Tok.

[Sarah]

And that's where I'm coming from, a place of. I didn't know I affected her enough to make her cry on Tick Tock. And that's another thing where signing up for this. I would never have signed up if I ever thought I had treated someone in a way that was going to come out with anything like that. And I told Sarah that and she was like, that's like, that's a good point. Why would I put myself through that knowing something's going to come out like this or could possibly. I've always done my best to treat people, you know, positively. And there's been the Minneapolis, like, are we dating the same guy? Facebook and I've been posted on there before and it mostly was nice things. And so that kind of gave me like the confidence, like, oh, you know, there's nothing that anyone really has to say about me. And, you know, I've. I wasn't surprised by that. So when this TikTok came out throwing me through the mud, I was really surprised and just honestly shocked and. Yeah.

[Zayna]

Do you feel like there was any intent behind her making that TikTok, considering the timing of it all?

[Sarah]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you were to look at her following when she posted that TikTok, I think it was around 30,000. And now she's. Last time I checked, upwards of 500,000. So what? I don't know if it was just my Tick Tock that blew it up, but I know that got millions of views and likes and such. So I know there's a Monet monetization around Tick Tock. And, you know, I can't blame her for trying to make money and, you know, make things that not at your Expense. Not at my expense. And I really wish it wasn't. But at the end of the day, it's like, there's a motivation there that's behind it all.

[Zayna]

Interesting. Do you. A lot of people are also saying that maybe you came on the show for wrong reasons. How do you feel about that?

[Sarah]

I think that seeing kind of how the relationship played out and honestly, one of that first social issues conversation with Sarah, I knew in my head it would have been easy to be, like, super. Just forward on. Yeah, I've thought about these things, and this is so important to me because I knew that's what she wanted to hear, but I was being vulnerable, authentic, and I was. You know what? This is something that I've been ignorant about, and it's a personal growth spot that I need to work on because I knew how important it was to her, and I didn't want to lead her thinking I was in that same boat. And so the fact that we still went ahead and we were able to get engaged and all that stuff was awesome. But I don't think anyone can see that and think, this guy's just on here for TV time. Because if it was the case, I would have tried to say everything right.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Were you shocked at the no at. From the altar?

[Sarah]

So this came up in the reunion? Yeah, they. I wasn't shocked by the no at the reunion. I was shocked by the reason, so. And then honestly, the response on when I asked her if she wanted to, like, continue dating after, and she said, we'll see. Yeah, that was a little heartbreaking.

[Zayna]

Did you guys talk about that?

[Sarah]

So we had talked about it. We were like, yep, we're gonna be dating after the show. And we actually had, like, talked about what we're gonna say, and it wasn't related to the social issues and such because we didn't really think it made sense, because at this point, I thought we were on the same page and we were ready to be that way to go forward. And so then when she said that was the reason she said no, I was kind of confused. And then I was, you know, excited to just be like, well, if you. I would love to just continue to grow relationship, or I forgot exactly my words. But she then said, we'll see.

[Zayna]

And I was like, that's not what we practiced.

[Sarah]

It's not. We didn't even practice it. It was just a feeling of, like, I wasn't even thinking of saying that until the moment. And then when she said, we'll see, I was like, okay, are we Actually, like, did something change in the last, you know, 24 hours that we talked? Are we, for sure done here? Are we gonna keep dating? I was just very confused. And honestly, when Sarah said at the reunion that, like, I wasn't heartbroken. Like, I was not because she said no, but just the way everything happened.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Did you guys talk much after?

[Sarah]

So after the wedding, that was kind of where I started to just kind of see the priorities shift with Sarah. Because as soon as the camera stopped rolling, got my phone back, I immediately text her. I'm like, hey, like. Like, what are we doing? Where are you? Where are you? How are you feeling? Where are we going? Like, all this stuff. No response. It was probably 45 minutes. I don't remember if she did text me back or if the first time I saw her was at the bar that we all agreed to go party at after. And the bar, it's a little dive bar in Minneapolis, so it's not that big of a space, but everyone at the wedding was there, and so it was super fun to just look up and see all of our family and friends. The only thing that was hurtful to me was I got the bar to the bar early, and I was in more of the back, and then someone turns around and says, sarah's here. And I was like, okay. So she couldn't text me that she was, like, on her way or here or anything. And not only that, I looked over at her, and she didn't make her way over. Like, I wasn't the first person she was looking for.

[Zayna]

Interesting.

[Sarah]

She was sitting there, hugging all of her friends and family, taking shots, all that stuff. And I was like. So I had to actually walk over there to be like, hi. Like, are we good? And she's like, yeah, we're good. Like, hi, like, great to see you. And then. And I was like, okay. Like, I guess we're fine. I don't know. Yeah.

[Zayna]

I remember watching after, she was like, she can't marry you. And then watching her reaction after. How is that? Watching how she was kind of going about after saying, no. Like, I'm fine. I'm fine, I'm fine.

[Sarah]

Yeah. That was, again, hurtful, because it's like, I was hurt again, not because she said no, but just because of how all went down. And yes, seeing her. Talked to her family after, too, in the car. And the reason she's like, I just. I can't be with someone like that. But yet she still wanted to date after.

[Zayna]

It was actually quite confusing, if I'm being honest. Because she kept saying, like, he's perfect. Like, I love him. I would marry this man. But then, like, said no. But then kind of celebrate. I don't know. Like, her energy at the end was, to me, confusing. I don't know. Like, there was just some. I feel like we, as an audience, missed something, because you both looked very much unfazed.

[Sarah]

It was. Well, like I said, we both, like, said we're gonna say no. So that wasn't the surprise. I was just surprised, though, how she kind of went into, like, all the reasons she, like, couldn't be with me.

[Zayna]

So. Okay, you guys spoke before the weddings, and you already had your answer before you got to the altar, and it was.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it was no.

[Zayna]

From both of you?

[Sarah]

From both of us.

[Zayna]

Interesting.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

Why did y'all go so far?

[Sarah]

You know, there was. When you're in love, and that was where we were at, And I was in a spot of. Because of the. What they didn't show at all was the fact that she was living in Nashville this whole time.

[Zayna]

Oh.

[Sarah]

And so the whole time, she didn't work at all. She wasn't in her home space. And as we were talking about what we were gonna say, obviously, you know, it's pretty of a. It's a pretty crazy time when you're trying to figure this all out, a lot going on. She wanted to just be like, I just need to be in my home space. I want to be back in my normal routine, and we can kind of figure it out from there. And that's where I was like, yep, that sounds great, because I also, like, think that I don't want to have this all be a fairy tale. Say yes, and then we're stuck in a marriage, and I've never seen you work. So that was the big kind of reason why I thought we were gonna say no. And so that's where I was prepared to honestly speak first and say no.

[Zayna]

Okay. So how do you feel about everything after the reunion? I know a lot was said, but do you feel like you got to say everything you needed to say?

[Sarah]

Yeah, it was obviously. I was honestly caught off guard a little bit from Sarah's reactions to how everything went down after the cameras were turned off, because, like, we had seen each other multiple times before then, and it's always been pleasant. And for her to have such strong opinions on how it all ended was surprising to me, since she was the one that ghosted me and the one that was more or less not making me the priority. And so it's funny Because I actually went back and looked at my phone and saw the receipts from that after the reunion. I know the triggering word, but, yeah, it's. There's. And I know she said that she thought we were together before going to Nashville and that I was going to come visit her, but the receipts kind of lead towards other things.

[Zayna]

Interesting. This is like. I feel like it's all coming together in a. In a different way. But it also came out at the reunion that you called Sarah to, like, rehearse what you guys were gonna say.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

That was kind of all feeling pretty calculated. Is that true?

[Sarah]

It wasn't that we were gonna rehearse questions. I just was in a spot where I was so honestly curious where she was at, because she dropped me. She ghosted me, and I was. That's an extreme reaction to almost getting married to someone. And then just because I messed up thinking that we had broken up. That's why you ghost me. I don't think. I don't know if there's ever a good time to ghost someone, but especially not a fiance.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And so I was just confused. And so I reached out to Jimmy just to see how he kind of handled everything. And he was like, yeah, I would just make sure you're on the same page with Sarah, and you guys are, you know, going into the reunion like friends. Jimmy from season. Yeah.

[Zayna]

That's funny.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I was like, that's. That's great advice. And then, yeah, I got on the phone with Sarah, and we had, you know, a nice, long conversation that was good. And just kind of was like. Yeah. And I talked to Jimmy, too, and he's, you know, awesome and was in helping me. And he was. Yeah, he was saying that we should be, you know, on the same page for the reunion and know what's going on, but that it wasn't like we should rehearse questions or anything like that.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Why was it important for you to be on the same page instead of just letting what was raw and natural occur?

[Sarah]

Just. Cause I was so confused on where her head was, and I didn't want to come to the reunion and have it all blow up in my face and be unexpecting, even though that's what ended up kind of happening. So that was something that I thought me and Sarah had enough connection and respect for each other to kind of give each other the reasons and kind of where our heads were at to kind of be a little bit more mentally prepared.

[Zayna]

Yeah. So you turned off your location. Was that an indicator of the Relationship being over, like what? Where'd that come from?

[Sarah]

Yeah. So like I'd said in the reunion, I thought it was over at this time. And the healthy way I've always seen to end relationships is to just remove them on everything so you're not thinking about them, seeing them. And I knew especially Sarah's location being in Nashville, I don't want to like see your pounce out being at bars and like everything. So I made sure to check it until she got home. And then I was like, okay, she's home and safe and I'll now delete it. And so that I'm not looking at it and going crazy.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Were you like always like often watching her location?

[Sarah]

I mean, not super often, honestly, but it was something where, I mean, it's my fiance, so I'm always checking in on it and making sure that, you know. Yeah, yeah, she's in the right place.

[Zayna]

So knowing all that, you know and the full experience and now you're, you've, you've done the reunion, you're watching kind of social media go kind of crazy.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Zayna]

What do you, what would you say is your biggest takeaway from the show?

[Sarah]

My biggest takeaway would to not avoid the difficult conversations, not avoid the controversial topics. Because if the conversation then doesn't go the right way, it's not meant to be. But when it goes the right way, that's when you know and that's when that relationship really begins to blossom.

[Zayna]

Yeah, that's a big takeaway. What about in the, the love sector?

[Sarah]

The love sector? Yeah, it's. Love is. It's a difficult thing to figure out and I don't think anyone knows anything about it until they're in it. I mean, you, you know, you've gone through it and you've now found it.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So you probably know firsthand that it's not something that you can't linear. This is what it is. Exactly.

[Zayna]

What I will say is I do think conversations like the conversation that we had today is very important. And if more people had conversations like that from a place of curiosity and also a place of educating and like me now being able to see your side and why maybe conversations weren't being had and like you sitting over there, from my point of view, seeing why it's actually important to have, I think.

[Sarah]

That if the world could have conversations like this, and I appreciate you too for asking him in such a honestly kind and open hearted way. And that's something where you could so easily ask questions, really just digging in in a More accusing way. But you did it in such an open hearted way. And, you know, that's, I think, another reason why these conversations are sometimes hard to have. But I think having them, like you.

[Zayna]

Said, I was genuinely curious because it's like, it's not like you said one thing and was very strong on it. Like you kind of didn't really give an answer. And I did want to give you the space and the time to say what you believe, what you stand, so that we don't have to make the assumption. And that way we can open the gates for other people to feel strong in their opinions no matter what they are. Like, I want people to feel confident and comfortable sharing their views. And I think if people just said.

[Sarah]

It had genuine curiosity, the world would be a much better place.

[Zayna]

I appreciate you.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I appreciate you.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Hashim]

I think conversations like that need to happen more often.

[Zayna]

100%.

[Hashim]

I think we shy away from a lot of. Of difficult conversations. But there is a way where you can frame it, where both parties feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable.

[Zayna]

And that's all I was trying to do. Yeah. Especially when you're. When you come from a place of. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Well, here are the facts.

[Hashim]

Now do you know?

[Zayna]

Now do you know? And how do you feel about them?

[Hashim]

That was it.

[Zayna]

That's all I was trying to do. Yeah. But I do want to kind of wrap this up a little bit and talk about your personal experiences on the shows. Do you feel that you'll take anything that you learned or went through or you didn't go on the show in a relationship? But is there anything that you would take into a new relationship? Maybe seeing those couples and how they were fighting for their lives?

[Ben]

Yeah, I have trust issues now. I didn't before really seeing that. Yeah.

[Zayna]

Damn.

[Ben]

I'm just joking. But yeah.

[Zayna]

Oh, he's scarred. What would you. Knowing all that you know and everything that you saw, what would you take, even if it's a small bit into your new relationship?

[Ben]

I would take someone that I would need. Someone that's very insecure, someone that. That's someone that's very secure in themselves. Like, know what they want to do, know what they want out of life.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Career wise, who they want to be. Know how they like to be loved, how they know how they like to be treated. Because, like, I can love them a certain way or treat them a certain way, but if they don't even like it.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Then it's just like it's not going to hit them the same.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So it's like. And also me understanding how they like to be loved also and vice versa, like what I need from a partner I think is what I'm gonna really take. Because if you don't know those things, that's when you end up on Sensation island or something like that. Just.

[Zayna]

Yeah. Do you feel like you saw that with the couples that people were just unsure of how they wanted to be loved or how they were loving?

[Ben]

I think more on the guy side, they were just kind of unsure from what I saw on the show, seemed a little bit unsure about themselves and like what they even, what they even needed from their partner. So that's why they're like, oh, let me see what this one can do for me. Let me see what this one.

[Zayna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben]

Whether that's physical, emotional or just how they even like to be just talked to type of banter they like to have. So I think you just need to be fully securing yourself and then saying and vice versa for the partner.

[Zayna]

Do you think being on the show is going to help or hinder your dating life moving forward?

[Ben]

That's a good question. I don't. I don't know. I guess it'll be harder. I guess it would be harder just to like cipher through.

[Zayna]

In what way? Because your DMs are crazy.

[Ben]

Yeah. You know, it's. I mean I was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's not dry anymore.

[Hashim]

I guess we're out the dry season, ladies and gentlemen.

[Ben]

I'm just joking. But. But I think it'll be harder just, just decipher. Just like as I move along with our startup and then just the social media stuff or the social media world trying to decipher who's likes you for you.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Versus who just wants to be next to you and take pictures for.

[Zayna]

You mentioned Perfect Match or did you ever go on it?

[Ben]

I would definitely go on Perfect Match. So the reason, the reason why I would want to go on Perfect Match because I didn't necessarily get that opportunity to like flirt or even like banter have that back and forth with somebody because I did go into it with open mind.

[Zayna]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Person I was matched up with was pretty close minded which is amazing for her. She. That's what she was supposed to do.

[Zayna]

Right.

[Ben]

But from my experience it's kind of hindered just because I didn't get that opportunity. So that's why I would want to do Perfect Match.

[Zayna]

Y'all heard him.

[Ben]

It's also my favorite Show. It is to watch. Yeah.

[Zayna]

Really? Wait, why?

[Ben]

It's just. I mean, also. I mean, because you. The whole point of it is, like, you've seen these people on other shows.

[Zayna]

And it's like, okay, it's like the Avengers.

[Ben]

It's like an Avenger.

[Zayna]

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[Ben]

Matches up. See if it's like, a genuine connection.

[Zayna]

Yeah. You could get engaged.

[Hashim]

Listen, get engaged. You know, I love this for you.

[Ben]

You never know. You never know. So.

[Zayna]

Okay, well, I'm gonna have my fingers crossed for you.

[Ben]

Appreciate you.

[Zayna]

Appreciate you. Ms. Zaina, is there anything from your show experience that you would bring into or leave and not bring into a new relationship?

[Hashim]

There is a lot. But I would say my main takeaway is like to choose someone who actively chooses you every day. Not to hold on to the honeymoon phase of a relationship or what someone did for you, like, months ago, but to really just evaluate how someone is making. Making you feel emotionally, physically, spiritually, like a holistic standpoint. Are they growing with you? Are they secure in themselves so they can be secure in the relationships? Like, there's just so much that I learned from that experiment and just. Also, just being really, like, confident in yourself and not holding on to something because of time. Don't hold on to a relationship because you invested time in it. Because if it's not meant to be, like, don't force something to happen. I think with me, I recognize that I. I'm a lover girl. I'll admit it. People have seen it. When I'm in love, I'm 100% invested. So it's hard for me to sometimes, like, let go when I. I'm realizing that they're not the right person for me. But just having, like, that discernment when it is time to, like, move on, because when you're dating, you're not married. And I would come into a relationship with, like, a marriage mindset, and that's where I went wrong.

[Zayna]

Right. So I love to hear that. So is there anybody in, like, super, super close proximity maybe sitting to the left of you?

[Hashim]

Are you really? She's about to set us up on a date. Honestly, though, like.

[Zayna]

What are y'all doing after this?

[Ben]

Nothing.

[Zayna]

What are you doing, T?

[Hashim]

I don't have plans yet. Same.

[Zayna]

How long you in la?

[Ben]

I don't have a flight back yet.

[Zayna]

And you know what?

[Hashim]

Oh, my God. This was a whole setup.

[Zayna]

It wasn't until you guys align on.

[Sarah]

A lot of things.

[Ben]

When I saw you in the lobby, I was like, did they set this up?

[Hashim]

Oh, you saw me in the lobby.

[Ben]

You know, I saw you in the lobby.

[Zayna]

You saw you in the lobby. How could he not see you looking good, you guys, I don't know what you're doing after this, but I hope y'all get into something. Go get some lunch, a coffee or something. But it was so, so amazing to have you guys both here and sharing your experiences with your shows and how can we all relate to reality tv? I want to thank you guys for joining me on what's the Reality? I want to thank you guys for joining me on another episode. And be sure to follow me on all socials on what's the Reality Pod. And I will see you next Wednesday.