The Bachelorette's Charity & Dotun Talk Representation, Double Standards & The Future of The Bachelor Franchise

Summary

Podcast Summary: What’s The Reality? – The Bachelorette’s Charity & Dotun Talk Representation, Double Standards & The Future of The Bachelor Franchise

Episode Date: April 15, 2026
Host: Amber Desiree (AD)
Guests: Charity Lawson (former Bachelorette) & Dotun Olubeko

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep, candid conversation between host Amber Desiree (AD), The Bachelorette’s Charity Lawson, and her fiancé, Dotun Olubeko. The trio discusses life after reality TV, their unique journey as a couple, double standards and racial representation in the Bachelor franchise, challenges navigating public relationships, and the broader realities of being in the spotlight as a Black couple in reality TV. They also touch on the controversy of the most recent canceled Bachelorette season and the pressures of public life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life After The Bachelorette: The Adjustment (05:01–08:58)

• Charity and Dotun share how life shifted after their engagement aired:
  • The public sees only the “highlight reel,” but the reality is filled with adjustment, highs and lows, and pressure from constant public scrutiny.
  • Moving in together and starting life as a real couple outside TV was challenging.
• Quote: "Life really does begin after the cameras stop rolling." – Charity (05:36)
• The transition from Georgia/LA to New York City, adjusting to a new city and climate, and growing as individuals (02:51–04:54).

2. Wedding Planning, Relationship Dynamics (10:52–15:26)

• Addressing public obsession with quick marriages after reality TV.
  • Dotun pushes back against the concept of “long engagements,” advocating for normal timelines.
  • Charity is highly organized and takes the lead, while Dotun, in typical laid-back fashion, is “in charge of the cake.”
• On blending cultures: They’re planning separate traditional Nigerian and “white dress” weddings (13:06–13:24).
• Humor and relatability: Playful banter about personality quirks (Charity teasing Dotun by not closing the blinds, “She likes to get naked in front of our neighbors!” Dotun at 09:13).

3. Path to Reality TV: How They Got Cast (16:07–29:34)

• Charity did not apply herself; her best friend submitted her without warning (16:17–20:07).
• Charity walked through being the second Black Bachelorette, balancing expectations and the pressure of representation.
• Dotun got cast on wildly short notice via a group chat connection—a literal “butterfly effect” of chance and networking (26:16–28:59).
• Both reference the series of 'signs' that made them believe appearing on the show was meant to be.
• Quote: “A good thing is just a good thing.” – Dotun & Charity (29:28)

4. Falling in Love – On and Off Screen (30:22–34:35)

• Their connection grew strongest after a pivotal “bungee jumping” date, where they discussed overcoming stereotypes and connecting on a deeper level outside show tropes (32:39).
• Producers’ pressure versus real emotions: Dotun resented being pushed to declare love for TV but points out, in hindsight, the experience clarified his feelings (31:32).

5. Representation & Double Standards in The Bachelor Franchise (34:36–40:49)

• Charity and Dotun openly discuss the lack of visibility and support for Black couples in the franchise.
• Charity: “We’re the first moderation Black couple to even get engaged on the show... People want to say, 'Don’t throw race into it'—but that’s the reality.” (34:56)
• Followers and social media: Black and POC contestants always have fewer followers; public interest and support are limited by implicit bias.
• Quote: “Our stories, too, deserve to be amplified.” – Charity (36:59)
• Dotun: “Be better people is my message. Look at character, man.” (40:49)

6. After the Show: Dancing with the Stars & Experiencing Microaggressions (40:49–47:12)

• Charity’s experience on DWTS started exhilarating but turned emotionally taxing due to public and social media criticism, often tinged with racial undertones.
• Public demanded perfection, labeling her “aggressive” or “cocky” for expressing emotion or ambition (44:59).
• Dotun calls out the “blatant display of covert racism” in how both audiences and producers react (44:59, 45:12).
• Quote: “It's like—you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don’t.” – Charity (47:05)
• Ongoing negative trends in voting and public commentary reflect structural problems in mainstream reality TV.

7. Current Franchises & Double Standards: The Canceled Bachelorette Season (51:54–58:59)

• Discussion on the scandal and cancellation surrounding Taylor, Frankie, and Paul.
• The trio highlights how the Bachelor franchise is willing to “take risks” on certain contestants (i.e., white leads with controversial backgrounds) but not support successful Black couples post-show.
• Quote: “If I was to do that, the season would be beyond canceled, the network would collapse.” – Charity (55:11)
• Dotun urges networks to “take a stand” rather than “performative” diversity (56:44–57:06).

8. Mental Health and Reality TV (61:34–67:27)

• Charity, with her master’s in mental health counseling, strongly advises anyone struggling with mental health NOT to do reality TV, given its emotional dangers.
  • Even with a year of therapy before the show, the adjustment remains “very hard.”
  • Both Charity and Dotun stress deep self-knowledge and emotional preparation for surviving stardom’s aftermath.
• Quote: "If you’re not in a good mental place, you should not be on reality TV. The risk is far too great." – Charity (61:43)
• Importance of therapy before, during, and after filming (65:02).
• Dotun: “Don't do it unless you really know who you are... Reality TV brain is like 35, like deadass.” (66:24)

9. Looking Forward: Careers, Health, and Staying True (69:02–70:49)

• Charity is focused on the wedding and career navigation—open to possible couple-based or competition reality TV, but not interested in romantic formats.
• Dotun is working on health and “rebranding,” conscious of how being tied to the Bachelor audience affects his creative freedom and public identity.
• Honest talk about the challenge of authenticity and self-care in the aftermath of reality TV.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Charity on Representation: “I now have, like, this... I don’t want to say pressure, but, like, I’m representing so many of us, and... we don't really get these opportunities a lot.” (20:50)
• Dotun on Industry Realities: “That’s where the money’s at. Middle America. They get their bread from there. And a lot of those people are still, you know, just not really able to differentiate the two. So be better people is my message.” (40:49)
• Charity, on Social Media Double Standard: “You can't tell me it's like, 'Oh, they're just not interesting enough.' Well, why aren't they interesting? Tell me why.” (38:53)
• Dotun, on Vetting and Risk: “I know the vetting process I had to go through... You’re seeing a therapist, three-hour call, thousand questionnaire... They know everything.” (57:36)
• Charity, on Mental Health Preparation: “I did a whole year of therapy beforehand. I was in the trenches, like, deep... I took this so seriously...” (63:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Moved to NYC/how life changed post-show: 02:51–06:04
• Wedding planning/engagement timeline: 10:52–15:26
• Path to the show & casting stories: 16:07–29:34
• Deepening the connection/falling in love: 30:22–34:35
• Race, representation & double standards: 34:36–40:49
• Charity's DWTS experience: 40:49–47:12
• Canceled Bachelorette scandal: 51:54–61:11
• Mental health & reality TV advice: 61:34–67:27
• What’s next for Charity & Dotun: 69:02–70:49

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, humorous, vulnerable, open, and honest.
• The trio leans into relatable banter, supportive mutual respect, and direct critique of industry failings—but always with warmth and care.
• The language is frank, at times irreverent, but always driven by a desire for awareness and growth.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich portrait of life before, during, and after reality TV as a Black couple. Charity and Dotun pull no punches on the double standards, expectations, and emotional rigors they face—but remain gracious, grateful, and determined to shape their narrative outside the franchise. Their wisdom extends beyond reality TV, resonating with anyone navigating life in the limelight or striving for authentic love and representation.

Charity: “Our stories deserve to be amplified... It’s not an us thing. There’s a lot more at play.” Dotun: “Be better people. Look at character, man. That's how we all gonna get better.”

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh, no.

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[B]

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[D]

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[B]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. What's the reality? What's the reality?

[A]

What's up, you guys? And welcome to another episode of what's the Reality? You guys, today I am joined by one of the most beautiful couples I've ever seen, if I'm being honest.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I'm, like, the greatest compliment.

[A]

Yeah, just so beautiful. So stunning. They gave us one of the most iconic love stories on reality tv. Please welcome your former bachelorette, Charity, and her fiance, Dawton.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Hi.

[A]

Welcome to what's the reality of you guys? Okay, before I even get into these cards, yes, I am a charity. Stan.

[B]

No, literally, like, I don't think you guys understand. I'm like, me and a. This is our first time, like, meeting in person.

[A]

Meeting in person.

[B]

But I'm like. She's like my sister. She's like my best friend.

[C]

Literally.

[A]

Best friends on socials, like, we've been talking. I mean, when I.

[B]

Ever since, like, you were on the spot, I was like. No, I. I so invested.

[A]

I was watching your season. And, like, I, to be honest, did not really watch the Bachelor.

[B]

I don't blame you.

[A]

Until I saw this beautiful queen on my screen, I was like, my popcorn, my wine. Like. And we've been locked in ever since, so this was a long, long, long time coming.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then she shows up with her 20ft tall fiance, which I get it, because my. How tall are you?

[C]

Six, eight, if I'm being honest.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If I'm being honest. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Just a few inches taller than my husband. So I see.

[B]

I. You understand it? We got it.

[A]

I Want to thank you guys for coming to the podcast. We have so much to get into, especially with all the Bachelorette drama. Just some small things going on a little bit. I know you guys live in New York City.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what brought you guys to la?

[B]

So we're just here for work. Yeah. But, yeah. So how we ended up in actual New York was because Dot was already living there. And after we obviously got engaged on the show, I was contemplating if we wanted to stay in LA or if I wanted to go back to the South. And I. I knew the south was probably not going to be an option for me. I was like, let me get out of here while I can. And since he had already kind of established his roots, that he was like, well, if we want to go back and, like, get our own place, I think you would like it. Let's try it out. And we did. I hated it for the first year. Yeah, it was very hard. Yeah. I was, like. I was very open about it. Right. Like, I feel like I expressed that a lot. I was like, I'm not if I want to, like, stay here. And then I think I kind of turned the tide a little bit and was like, you know what? I actually like New York.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, wait, what part of the south are you from?

[A]

Georgia. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So like, an hour 30 south of Atlanta. Exactly.

[A]

Because I'm a Boston girl that moved to Charlotte.

[B]

Oh, so you did that. Interesting.

[A]

I will never go back Northeast. Never again.

[B]

Yeah, the winter was really hard. I was like, I did not own any jackets. I had, like, two jackets when I moved up there. Now my whole closet's, like, all these jackets. Yeah, but. Yeah, no, I mean, I think I've learned to appreciate it just because it's, like, helped me grow and, like, challenge myself. I think the big thing of New York is, like, things are. It's at your convenience, but it's also not like, it requires you to do a lot more than what a standard person probably get in their car, going to Target and getting something.

[A]

It's like. And it moves a little bit quicker than it does.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

People talk a little faster. Yeah. Like, it's like, you better be on top. You gotta be on it. So, Dot, Is that where you're from?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Where are you from?

[C]

Well, born in Nigeria, but raised in Fresno, so not far from here.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. That's why I got the hell up out of there, though. Yeah. So once the pandemic happened, I moved back home for a little bit, but then I was like, I know. I want to go somewhere big. And I'd lived all over California, and so New York was really the only place. So I came out for a little bit, tested it out, loved it, and the rest is history.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Without that, I wouldn't have ever met this one. Little butterfly effect.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

Wait, so what has life been like since you two got engaged on the Bachelorette? We're at.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I'm like, where do we begin? I feel like it's been. It's been good. But I think there is, like, a misconception of, like, oh, my goodness, like, your life's completely changed, and it's this, like, big fairy tale. Like, obviously, it's. We are so grateful for, like, the show and how we met. Like, obviously, without that, I like to think that we would have found our way to each other, but, you know, I don't know. And so for the show, obviously, very grateful for that. But it comes with, like, life really does begin after the camera stop rolling. And, you know, you're adjusting to life.

[A]

You're.

[B]

I mean, I'm now living with someone that I have not spent this much time with. It's like, all these things that I feel like people don't really understand who just watch us, obviously, on tv. And it's far more. There's so much more. Yeah, that goes into it, but it's been good. But also, like, I won't sugarcoat. There has been, like, just, you know, the highs and lows that you have to figure out, and that is. That's lie. Yeah. You wanna add to that?

[C]

No, you nailed it. Pretty much summed it up. Yeah. I mean, it's like. Yeah, it's been. She said, very grateful. Every day I wake up super happy for the experience. You know, from not wanting to go on that show to all of a sudden being a finalist, getting engaged. And there's, as you know, a lot of opportunities that comes with this. That, again, very blessed. Things that we would never get to do in a million years. And, like, what else is life about if you don't do those things? But it comes with a lot, too, right? And, like, career wise, too, like, a lot of turmoil over, like, what path do I want to take? Right. Because you have a whole life before and what does it look like after? And obviously, like she said, getting to know your partner, that's also, like you said, ups and downs. You know, you figuring a lot of things out. And then also it's just like, all the travel and all these things. Like, again, that's really underrated. And I actually went back home in December, and it was really eye opening because I talked to a lot of my old friends back in Fresno, and they all have this totally different perspective of what's going on. They think, like, life's great and hey, you know. And, like, some of them are, like, salty. Like, you don't talk. I'm like, bro, Because I'm, like, sad and depressed, like, half the time. You know, Like, I'm, like, trying to figure stuff out so people have no idea. But again, like, overall, very blessed.

[B]

Like, yeah.

[C]

Would never complain, you know, I, like, feel.

[A]

Feel like there's so much in that that I feel like I understand.

[B]

Yes. On, like, a. I know you.

[A]

Not a surface level.

[B]

Correct. Correct.

[A]

Because, like, Ollie and I, we met on tv, we got engaged shortly after, and, like, everything that we've done has been in a span of a year.

[B]

Correct. Which I can. I mean, like, you guys have accomplished a lot.

[A]

Like, yeah, he moved to a different country, I moved to a different city and state. We got engaged, we got pregnant, I had a baby, we lived together. It's just all in a year in the public eye.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So there's so much that I'm hearing in here that I can, like, relate here. And, like, I feel you guys on a spiritual level.

[B]

Like, people don't, because I'm like, you know, it's like, that's what social media is. It's like you guys just see, like, the highlight reels, which I'm like. I try to be as transparent, but I also, like, I'm very protective over myself and over him and my family. So it's like, certain. Exactly certain things. I'm just like. I'm not just going to be super vocal about, but it's like, I try to, like, you know, share as much as we can of, like. Okay. It's just been like, a harder season for us. Like, whether that's health, whether that's, you know, whatever it is. It's like, I try to be open without going into so much detail, but, yeah, I think people don't really understand. It's like, they think it's so simple. It's that, too. They definitely don't care. They're like, okay, so when are you getting married? Now. I'm like, sorry. I'm trying to. I'm trying to save up money. Thank you. Like, it's a lot, really.

[A]

When are you ready for your second?

[B]

Yeah, it's like, I'm still. It's so invasive sometimes. But, you know, I. I like It. But I don't. You know, it is very interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

What's something that the audience would be surprised to hear about your relationship?

[B]

I'm like, speak carefully. I'm trying to think. What's something that the audience would be surprised?

[C]

She likes to get naked in front of our neighbors.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

We leave, we have blinds, and we have this complex. And it's like, bruh, there's people across the hall. And she never closed the blinds. And I'm like, you want people to see, that's fine. Just tell me. No, I don't pretend like you're.

[B]

But then all of a sudden, you know what?

[C]

It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. So there's something you don't know.

[B]

You want to take it there? We'll take it there. Let's go. So to my defense.

[C]

Crazy. There's nothing like it.

[B]

It is not like, I'm like, hey, everybody. Like, I joke to him about it, but, like, obviously, like, no one can see. It's just weird on the top floor. So, like, you know, unless it's like, peeping Tom. Sorry. But, like, no one can really see. I just tease him.

[C]

Yes, they can, because we can see directly in their apartment.

[B]

I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with our relationship.

[C]

But anyway, she asked a question. What are you talking about? I answered it.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I just am open and I'm like, not thinking, you know, that's. That's the purpose of your home. Listen, it's my safe space.

[A]

I am a literal breastfeeding mom. I have no body. Like, you can't body shame me.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Like, listen, we are women and we are beautiful, and if somebody's looking, that's on them.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm not.

[C]

Yeah. I don't get mad, get twisted up. I just. Just let me know. That's what you like. I like what? Like, I don't. I want you to live your life. Be free.

[B]

My turn to answer that.

[A]

This question. You know, I'mma let you simmer on it so we can come back.

[B]

We will. Cuz I got to get a good one for that ready out the gate. Like, okay.

[A]

So funny. So you guys shared on social media that we're getting married this year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How's wedding planning going?

[B]

Wedding planning is going. It's going, as we all know. It's like. It's one of those things. And I think because we had a longer engagement, I knew, like, a lot of the stuff that I wanted. So, like, I got to like, kind of sit on that. As we were in our engagement season.

[C]

We gotta break that statement and stop saying longer engagement.

[B]

Well, it is to the public. It's not a long engagement to us. Like, to us.

[C]

We gotta stop saying that. We're perpetrating.

[A]

Give us the timeline, then. So you guys got engaged. What year?

[B]

April. 2023.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then why are you on a break? What do you.

[C]

No, no, no. Okay. So this has been an issue, and this is part of the issue with the Bachelor world is they assume as soon as you go off the show that, oh, if this is true love, you get married right now, this instant. They don't want to give you time to really understand, like, figure it out. And so, like, every interview you do, they're like, oh, like, literally off the. When you getting married? Like, bro, we just met. Like, I know that. I know that. Like, it's a. It's like. It's like. It's like, bro. Exactly. It's like, bro, we did the engagement. Like, bro, what else do you want? Like, bro, that's also pretty crazy. Like, give us some credit.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

That's not enough. So it's something we talk about all the time. So, like, I'm like, we got to stop saying we had a. Because we did it. We had a normal engagement. Most people are engaged for two, three years longer than that. So, like.

[B]

Yeah. So normalizing in our world.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Longer engagements, but it's not long. But yeah. So basically, I had that window to kind of just sit on a lot of the ideas that I wanted. So when we were like, okay, the time is now. We're doing this. Like, let's go. I just kind of brought forth my idea, so I think it's making it a lot easier because it's less, like, pressure. I'm so specific, and I feel like that's not a thing that a lot of brides, like, come into wedding planning knowing what they want. And, like, our wedding planner was like, oh, you're, like, so, like, organized. I was like, no, truly. And I was like, well, you are here for a reason. But, no, I think for the most part, it's going good. It's just, like, we're taking it day by day. And honestly, without giving too much away, we're anticipating and excited for the rest of this year. So I know.

[A]

Are you doing two weddings, like, Nigerian and.

[B]

Yes. So, yeah, we thought about, like, trying to combine both, but it just, like, was not gonna work just because he has so much family and we want his family to Be present for, like, the traditional one. So we're just gonna break them up. Separate weekends. But yeah.

[A]

Beautiful. Okay. You don't have to answer. Is it going to be in New York?

[B]

No. Okay, I can answer that. No. Yeah.

[A]

I think it looks so good.

[B]

Yeah. No, literally, I'm like. I just. Bridal era is like, everything. I know.

[A]

Are you contributing, dying, or are you just letting her do her thing?

[C]

Yeah, I'm in charge of the cake.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So the most important piece.

[A]

What kind of cake is it? A tall tier.

[B]

That's my favorite thing.

[C]

We can't. We can't. It's secret. But. But, yeah, the design, but we have the flavor.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm.

[B]

I'm in charge of the cake.

[C]

Yeah, I'm in charge of the cake. Big deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Don't. Don't play with me.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

I can't. I love it.

[C]

That's important. So, yeah, I'm working on a cake. No, I, I, I try to give insights, and I'm more thinking of right now, like, the vendors and stuff like that. So I'm doing some of that, trying to figure out, like, who's gonna get involved. But yeah, I mean, most of it's coming from her. I don't have an opinion generally for most things.

[B]

Right. Which I. I like and I don't like. You know, it's like, I love how you so. Because that's his personality. He's just very laid back and just very easygoing. But I'm like, okay, say something. Like, whether it's a color or whether it's like a texture, like, say something.

[A]

You know, Ollie has an opinion.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

I'm like, no.

[B]

I'm like, you just want.

[C]

You don't want the opposite.

[B]

She don't know.

[C]

She don't know no better.

[B]

Yeah. Remember what 80 said? Hella.

[C]

You don't want that.

[A]

Sometimes I look at Ollie, I'm like, it's a blessing.

[B]

I have an opinion. I am so dead. Okay.

[C]

You could be clashing. Yeah. You don't want that.

[B]

Okay. Okay. I would appreciate it.

[A]

Small things and just act like you're looking for the opinion.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Exactly. Exactly.

[B]

You know what you're gonna do. Okay. Exactly.

[A]

It's all good until it.

[B]

I'm like, not y' all too. Like, y' all are best buds.

[C]

Got it. She knows it. She got it.

[B]

Ollie always has an opinion. I can't wait to meet that man.

[A]

I really can't today. But the baby, she sleeps.

[B]

That's okay. Let her. Let her stay.

[A]

We let Them stay at home today,

[B]

but, yeah, it'll happen.

[A]

Less is more.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[C]

Oh, speaking of Ollie.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Does he know Demola Dema was on the most recent season of UK Love is Blind? Because he was on uk, right?

[A]

He was, yeah. I don't know if they know each other.

[C]

They need to link up. Yeah. My cousin was on Love.

[A]

I did see that on your socials. That.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's his. His cousin.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I did see that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He got his heart broken.

[A]

I did see. I did see that. He was a little sad.

[C]

Anyways, we'll get to that. I was just wondering. I don't know how small that world is. I was like, they should link up.

[A]

Okay, let's talk Bachelor, Bachelorette.

[B]

Let's get into it.

[A]

Let's get into your journey. Specifically, a little bit on the Bachelor and Bachelorette. Let's go way back to the beginning. How did you end up on the Bachelor?

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah, take us back there.

[B]

Crazy. Crazy. I mean, not too much of a crazy story, but crazy because I didn't apply. So basically, I was in grad school and I was getting out of. Or I was already out of at the time, really not so healthy relationship. And I was just kind of taking time to myself, focus, obviously, on graduating and all this. And my best friend, she mentioned to me she watches the show, but, like, she's not like, an avid, like, Bachelor fan. Like, she could care less. She brings it up to me randomly one day, and she's like, oh, my gosh, you should sign up for the Bachelor. And I was like, I'm not signing up for the Bachelor. I'm never going on that show. And she goes, no, I just really think that this will be different for you. Like, your personality. I know America would, like, love you. Like, just try something out new. And I was like, I literally brush it off. I was like, okay, you're just talking silly talk. And fast forward to, like, I want to say, like, five. Five months later. It was like, right before or actually right after, I had just graduated. I finished grad school. I was getting ready to, like, literally move to Charlotte. Like, it was crazy. I get a call from a producer, and I don't recognize the number. So I obvious I don't answer. So I'm like, okay. Calls again, and then sends a text, is like, hey, this is a producer from the Bachelor. We're wondering if you're still single. I'm like, wait a second. I was like, okay, maybe this is just, like, by coincidence. And I called them back, and I was like, wait, how did you guys, like, find out I didn't apply for this? I was like, oh, we gotta. We received an application on your behalf. And so I was like, no. Literally, I was like, I know there's, like, two people that I could think of off the top. My best friend and then another girl. And I was like, it has to be her. So I texted her, I said, did you actually submit an application for me? And she goes, yeah. And I was like, you didn't even tell me that. Like, you know, it went through, like, you. I had no idea about this. And I was like, well, the producers just called me. And I was like, I literally don't even know what I'm going to do because, like, this is such a weird transitional period for me. Like, I am literally about to, like, I accepted a job. Like, there's so much going on. And so the casting process is, like, so long. It's like the whole summer. Three to three to four months, I feel like, is the average time, which is like, you're just waiting. Like, you don't really know. Like, you are getting excited about something, but you're also, like, trying to, like, remain, like, kind of like.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, if it doesn't work out. Exactly, exactly. So I was, like, telling myself. I was like, I can't put, you know, all this on pause. I just, like, worked so hard to, like, get to where I'm at. So end of summer, I am coming back from Paris. My. One of my good friends from high school, she just got married. I literally, like, had an insane trip in Paris. I was like, on cloud nine. I was like, you know, everything is really working out for me. I'm feeling happy, like, we're in a good spot. And that's when I get the call that I'm like, oh, you're officially cast it. We, like, we start filming in two weeks. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, the whole time, I was really, like, struggling with, like, do I do this? Do I not do this? But I feel like I was also getting, like, signs just from, like, God and, like, the world of, like, okay, this is something that I need to, like, just do and take a. Take a risk on. If it works out, it works out. If not, it's okay. And so that ultimately is what led me to, like, decide to be, like, you know what? Honestly, let's just do it. Like, you know, it could be my husband. It could not. And so I think I am a little bit naive when it comes to that. I am, like, a hopeless Romantic. I'm just a believer of love. So I said, you know, put me in front of a man, like, perhaps, you know, we might fall in love. And so, yeah, so I ended up on the Bachelor, which obviously didn't work out, but I had. I personally had a phenomenal experience. Like, not everyone can say that. And I. I do realize that. I'm so grateful that I had a good experience. Still very close with a lot of the girls from my cast. I was on Zach season. He's stand up guy. Like, truly. He's married now to his final one. So honestly, great experience. But obviously that led me to me stepping into the role of Bachelorette, which I also didn't anticipate for myself next.

[A]

Like, yeah, what was your reaction when they asked you to be Bachelor?

[B]

I think it's. You know what? I'll be as transparent as I can, I think, because, you know, traditionally they ask or they, like, tend to interview multiple girls from the same season or other people that they have kind of already, like, in their mind of who they might want to be as the next lead. And for me, when I got approached, I won. It was like, very fast. And I was like, well, I'm still trying to process what the hell. I just. Yeah. What did I just went through? Like, I need a moment. But, yeah. So when I got asked to do all, like, the interviews and whatnot, I just assumed that this was them checking off a box. Like, that was me in my head. So I was like, it's not gonna be me, but it's okay. Like, at least I got the opportunity to interview. And in my head, the whole time I'm thinking, oh, they're definitely gonna choose somebody else. Like, it's going to be somebody else. And they. Again, very similar process to how they do, like, forecasting. They don't really tell you everything. Like, you just kind of have to wait and figure it out and. And see, and they tell you when it's time. And so I got towed on the. The night of our reunion. So, like, where the women tell all? And I was completely taken aback. Like, I know people were like, oh, my gosh. Like, Charity, kind of. Her reaction kind of felt like she knew. Like I knew because I was in the process. Correct. But I didn't know it was going to be me. And I was. If more than anything, I was genuinely shocked because I was like, oh, like, I'm also making history again. Because as we know, there's not a lot of woman of color who has been lead. I'm the second Black Bachelorette. This is crazy. I. I am, like, now about to, like, possibly find my husband. Like, all of these emotions were, like, just running through me, but, like, ultimately that I think I was just overwhelmed in that moment because of the fact that I was like, yes, I might find my husband, but also, like, I now have, like, this. I don't want to say pressure, but, like, I'm representing so many of us, and it's like, we don't really get these opportunities a lot. So it was. It was a whirlwind of emotions for me, but that's essentially, like, how I, like, stepped into this role. And then, yeah, I was, like, praying to God, I say, you know what? Like, I didn't. It didn't dawn on me in the moment, but I was like, I just. I accepted being Bachelorette, so, like, now this kind of needs to work out for me. But then also trying to, like, reassure myself and calm myself of, like, okay, if it doesn't. It's going to be about how I go through this process. It's going to be about how I am either vulnerable, how I show up again, how I'm representing myself. So I tried to, like, have that in the back of my mind always. But this one has a crazy story on how he got on my season. But, yeah, I mean, I had just an incredible group of guys, like, I. I still to this day. And he can also, like, testify for that. I am so grateful because I feel like there was. It was a rarity, like, our cast or, you know, the cast of guys they. They picked really good for me, and I don't know, I was like, it. Part of that is, like, really reassuring because I was like, oh. They were, like, either really invested in, like, just my belief of love and, like, this experience and how I wanted it to play out for myself. But, yeah, I mean, it was. It all worked out, obviously. Yeah. With him. But I want him to tell you his story, how he got on my season, because I think that's really important.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That people don't really. Sir. Not a lot of people. It's like, it's.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's a part of the story.

[A]

It is. And I'm definitely interested. That was my next question. How did you end up. April 15th is coming up fast, and if you haven't filed your taxes yet, you know, the stress hits differently this close to the deadline. But here's the thing. You can hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today with Intuit. TurboTax tax expert, full service. You're matched with a dedicated expert who understands your specific tax situation and can do your taxes for you from start to finish, online or in person at one of their new tech enabled store locations. Have your tax forms directly imported into the app and hand it all off to your expert and they will work tirelessly to get you every dollar you deserve. Meanwhile, you can go about your normal routine, giving you time back to catch up on reality shows, hit the gym or finally go on your honeymoon. No more squeezing into someone else's schedule or chasing UPD. Don't wait. Visit TurboTax.com and hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today.

[B]

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[A]

Ugh. I love my VRBO for the location.

[B]

Good reason.

[A]

Oh and for the pool cause pools are cool. I feel the love.

[B]

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[C]

are y' all alright?

[B]

He's always trying to humble somebody. I'm like

[C]

people need humbling in this world if you ain't noticed. Okay, okay, so I'm so done. I mean I feel like Honestly, you pretty much told my story like no, in terms of pretty much similar, like crazy. Mine was really short notice. Two weeks, just like a roommate was in this group chat. Someone dropped out last minute. And generally it's like, you know, again, it's like a six month process. People start getting vetted nine, six months in advance. And someone dropped out last minute two weeks before filming started. And then one of the casting agents was like at a bar, like you know, stressing like how we're gonna fill in this role and then saw some guy and asked him, hey, you want to go on the Bachelorette? He's like, I have a girl. That guy had a friend that was there. He was like, can I be on the Bachelorette? And she said, no, you don't look the part. You know what I'm saying? Unfortunately, that's what it is. It is what it is. It is what it is.

[A]

Tall.

[C]

Yeah. You know, girl.

[A]

Cherry.

[C]

Exactly. You imagine just let anybody on, right? So tr. It's fair. I get it. I get it. And then for whatever reason, the guy who got rejected was like, can I find you someone? She was.

[B]

Which is so sweet.

[C]

Like randomly. I don't know if that's sweet.

[B]

It's kind of psychotic a little bit, but it's sweet.

[C]

Cuz he cares but respect and I appreciate him. And then, and then for he just like started texting the group chat and then this old group chat of college buddies that. That my roommate happened to be in isn't that he got the text and then sent the requirements roommate thought of me, told me to send you some pictures. I remember it like it was yesterday, just working normal day, two o' clock remote.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[C]

And then he sent me pictures and I was like, haha, you're stupid. That was a joke. You know, you want to see me? Okay, whatever. Just say you want to see pictures of me. It's fine, bro, you ain't got okay to kick it.

[B]

So.

[C]

And then, and next year, an hour later, the cast agent hit me up. And then two weeks of hell. But but starts kept getting those signs. So it was like crazy signs. And then the last one was seeing her as a bachelorette because I didn't want to be a token black dude, honestly. So that was a big. I remember screaming at my roommates, being like, I don't like. I remember like yesterday I was like, I don't want to be a token black dude. And then next day later they announced her and then I called my mom

[A]

and I was like, and you're like, sign me up.

[C]

No. No. I was like, mom, I really don't want to do this, but, like, all this is happening. Like, all this stuff keeps happening. She listen to story. And of all. I was hoping she would talk me out of it and be like, yeah, don't do it. She's like, you know what, son? You know, sometimes life puts you in these positions. That's. That's what you're meant for. That's where you shine. So I say you go for it. And then I told him yes. And then, like, literally 16 hours later, I was on the flight, so.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. I always hear, like, when I am interviewing, like, success stories from, like, reality shows, everyone always goes, there were so many things that opened up that made it easy for me. And there were so many signs. Like, like, every single time, there's a successful. Like, even my relationship, like, things just opened up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was just like, I didn't want to do Perfect Match. I didn't want to go.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was like, stop calling me. I'm not coming. And then, like, by the fourth call, I was like, okay. Must be some. There has to be something.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Every single time I get a couple on this couch that is, like, successful, they're like, everything opened up. That is so, like, it just works.

[B]

That was. That's our thing from our, like, our slogan from our season. Like, I. Obviously, it took a minute for our love story to kind of bloom. It was a little bit of a slow burn. And once we, like, obviously started talking, I was like, no, I really like this guy. But I remember on, like, one of our dates, like, I started getting in my head a little bit, and he reassured me, and, like, it's a saying. We say a good thing is just a good thing. And it's like I am so reminded so many times and obviously, like, you talking about just how everything kind of, like, worked out. It's like, I didn't have to, like, look for a reason for it not to work out. It just, like, it did, and the world opened itself up for us to, like, have these moments and this opportunity to fall in love on a. On a public platform, which is crazy. But. No, literally one of the biggest. But yeah, no, it. I. I love that. So you.

[C]

You nailed it in terms of. I always say this, like, luck is a big part of success, right? I can be like, yeah, I came in. I was that dude. You know what I'm saying? We go swabble. But, like, no, like, it's luck.

[B]

Right place for every right Everything.

[C]

So it makes sense. I think that's what you're seeing is those successful ones are sometimes the luckiest ones.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

Sometimes some of the ones might have made it if they just had a little bit more luck that last.

[A]

Wait. So, Dton, when did you realize charity was the one for you? Turn his mic up.

[B]

No, I'm like, that's for the Nigerians.

[C]

Yeah, that's for the Nigerians. Don't know. Anyways, it was so around the bungee jump day. You know, I'm a big skeptic. So honestly, it's like, very hard for me to, like, be like, oh, yeah, meant to be, but on the bunny jump, J. Like, I started real. Like, that was a real powerful date for me. And, like, I felt super connected. And I remember, like, one of the producers was low key, trying to, like, convince me that I was in love already, right? And I was. No, it's crazy.

[A]

She just say it.

[C]

Just crazy. And I was like, huh? And then. So it was just. We had like. Like, almost like yelling, not in a bad way. Like, love, like, not. Not bad. She was just really passionate and doing her job, probably, but really passionate. And then. But I was like, I'm not doing that. But then I'm actually glad that conversation happened. I didn't like it at the time because again, I felt. Trying to coerce me. But then it made me really think about it. And she's. That's where the good thing is. A good thing came from. And I was like, damn, maybe, maybe, you know, maybe she's right. And then that's when we had that conversation. And then by then, like, I was starting to be like, damn, this is too real. Like, I might actually, like, be falling. But then it was pretty much the next day. That's when it was pretty much solidified. And then, like, in Fiji, she was on the dates with the other two guys. And then I didn't care, you know, like, in a sense, like, I cared like, when I was about to go to the altar. But before those, I was at peace. And for me, I think that was a sign that, like, yeah, this is. This is the one if I make it there. And I felt like I would. So.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I'm like,

[A]

did you know that?

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I would say bungee jumping date was the. Was it the evening when we had that conversation about. I think we both, like, had a lot of similar. Like, our upbringings are very different, but the things that I think we both. Both felt during our upbringings is what we talked about on that evening date, which I think we were like, oh, my gosh. Like, we're a lot more similar in ways than I think we thought. And basically, that conversation was just, like, not being confined in a box. Like, I think with him, he talked about, like, just, like, you know, being a six, seven, black guy. People expect him to be like, you know, they naturally assume he's, like, an athlete and does all these things, and he falls in this one criteria. And then, same for me. It's like, how I present myself. I'm just this, you know, naturally super poised, like, without air girl. And I was like, no, I have a lot of flaws. Like, I have a lot of stuff going on. But it's like, we talked about that, and we connected on such, like, a deep level, which I feel like transcends a lot of bachelor. Bachelor talk, I should say. And so that. I think that was a really, like, huge moment for us. And then the following week is when I took him again on a one. On one day. I was, like, obsessed. I was like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, we're doing another one on one. You just had one. Exactly. I was like, I want more. More time. I think that's when they knew. They're like, wait, yeah, I think this girl is in love. And I was like, basically, yeah. Oh, that's beautiful.

[C]

So you and D. You remember that scene? Do you remember that scene? No running, when they told me that I got the second one and all the dudes were hella sad.

[B]

You got to watch it back.

[C]

It's just funny if you haven't seen that. Yeah. No fact, like, it was so funny, man.

[A]

We got to insert.

[C]

They was all devastated, and I had to, like, try to contain my happiness a little.

[A]

I need to run it back.

[B]

No, you do. Probably, like, the worst moment, I feel

[A]

like, now meeting you guys. I need to go back and watch it.

[B]

Yes. A lot more will make sense.

[A]

Yeah. It'll start me.

[B]

A lot more will make sense.

[A]

You and Dalton are one of the few success stories to come out of the Bachelor franchise. Why do you think your love story isn't as spotlighted as some of the other couples?

[B]

Well.

[A]

Well, if I had to pick

[B]

not that many answers, I mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it is not. Like, I can probably say this in the best way that I can. Obviously, very grateful to the franchise. That's a given. But, yeah, I think there's a little bit of a conversation that should be had more. But, you know, there's only so many of us that, you know, truly speak out about stuff like this. I think it's just. Yeah. I mean, we're the first moderation black couple to even get engaged on the show. So it. I hate to say that people are gonna be. Don't throw race into it, but it's like, that's the reality. Like, hello. What's the reality? Hello. Hello. And that's the reality. So it's like, I think, you know, a lot of the shows, obviously, it's based off their demographics, based off, like, their audience who watches the show. And I understand that, but also, there's a level of that where they have to kind of make us marketable to where we are digestible for their audience. And granted, which leads me into, like, you know, obviously, there's a lot going on now, but the whole conversation of, like, how I was as a Bachelorette, essentially doing my role almost flawlessly. Yeah. Without mistake. Obviously, I didn't do everything without mistake, but in. In the, you know, grand scheme of it all, and that is a lot of pressure and a lot of pressure that I carried on my season just as a lead, but even as a contestant, too, there's certain ways I couldn't even, like, react, respond to. So it's like, I'm thinking that this whole time, but also on his end, like, how he was like, as a black man on tv, like, clearly, I'm. The first season that it happened. We have not had a black man win the Bachelorette ever. So it's like. And I hate to say win, but, yes, that's what it is. He won, got engaged to. And, like, for us to represent the franchise as a black couple, I think that's like, oh, wow. Like, it's obviously never happened. So that in itself is a shocker. But it's just. I hate to say it, but it's just not what people expect, nor probably. I don't want to say want it to see.

[C]

And.

[B]

And that's the sad part of it all, because it's like our stories, too, also deserve to be amplified. It deserves to be treated with the exact same way that other stories are

[A]

put on a pedestal.

[B]

Correct. Yeah. And it's like, you know, we have. People have their golden success stories, which is great, but it's like, what makes your love different. Correct. And that's almost like, something that we have to think about. But I try not to, because I know it's not a us thing. It's like, yeah, no, our love is what it is, and there's nothing wrong with that. But just remembering that there's A lot more at play and a lot of other factors that unfortunately come into.

[A]

Yeah, even with just, like, socials. Yeah, that's a big conversation today as well in other franchises. But even with just socials. Yeah, like, the uphill battle to just get one more follower.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

Please.

[B]

No, it's. Yeah, like, it is. It's incredible. And, you know, there's. I'm gonna give her a shout out. There's a girl Bachelor Data. She, like, does an amazing job. I'm sure she probably does it for y' all series to. Love is blind, too, but she basically does, like, spreadsheets over, like, just keeping track of, like, you know, contestants. And every single season. I'm. I kid you not. When you look at the final four, and usually there's always, like, Dalton said, it's always like, I don't want to say the token black person, but there's a person of color that is in the final four. They are vastly less than in terms of followers. And it's like, that's not. That's not exactly. That is not by mistake. I'm, like, there for that trend to happen every single season. You. You can't tell me. It's like, oh, you know, they're just not interesting enough. Well, why aren't they interesting? Tell me why. Right? You talk to me. Tell me why that part. So it's like, I. I don't. I don't buy that excuse. I. You know, whether or not you want to sit there and, you know, be at peace and recognize your biases, I can't fix that for you. But all I'm gonna say is just sit with them. Reflect.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just hate when I go in certain comments of, like, not even just your show, but just in general when things switch up, even when, like, Grant was on and then the comments are, I'm not watching.

[B]

It's crazy. No, literally, that was my whole. That was. I was doing campaigning for my own season before I became Bachelor, because that was the dialogue. Well, don't watch. Do not. That's fine.

[A]

The ones that will, like, literally, right.

[B]

I, I. It's just. It doesn't make sense to me. Yes.

[C]

The weirdest thing, man, I also felt like I played it as perfect as I could. Right. I was very aware and, like, still was authentic, but, like, brought my best self. So I don't again, you know, give. Give anybody ammo, right? Because they're looking for an excuse to. To deplatform or not give voices to us. So, yeah, it's it's. Again, it's so hard to, like, try to condense this, but, man, this stuff goes deep. And I really wish that human beings in general, it's like, I don't know. I guess they. They just see what they relate to. And, like, I can understand that to an extent, but I wish we all moved past that and saw character for character, for sure. You know what I'm saying? Because that's what I do, right? I don't give a damn about your skin color. And, like, think it's weird that human beings still to this day, and then particularly in that Bachelor franchise, which is the most, like, Puritan. And again, all love. Like, truly, like, I. I really am grateful for them, but it doesn't make it easy. And I think they still have work to. To. To overcome those biases, but that. That's where the money's at. Middle America. That's. That's what they. That's where they getting their bread from. And, yeah, a lot of those people are still, you know, just not really able to. To differentiate the two. So be better people is my message. Like, bro, look at character, man. Like, that's how we all gonna get better. Stop looking at skin color. That does not matter.

[A]

So, anyways, so, Charity, you were also on Dancing with the Stars after your season aired. What was that experience like?

[B]

That one is always, like, so tricky for me to answer.

[A]

I watched that too, by the way.

[B]

Yes, I had. I had a couple a. I had a good time. It just came with things that I don't think I was prepared for nor expecting. And again, kind of similar to what we just shared. You know, first of all, watch Dancing with the Stars growing up. So I was like, oh, my gosh, the fact that I get to do this. The fact that I get to have this, like, experience and opportunity. Yes, a million times, yes. I was so excited. Obviously, Dalton knows. But also simultaneously, this was right after we had became public as a couple. So I was very much a little bit on fence and on edge because, again, like I said, very protective over our relationship. And I was like, no, I want to make sure I'm doing everything that I can to make, you know, him feel like he's supported and, like, you know, I'm, you know, giving into this relationship and not just like, okay, next opportunity came by, like, leaving you at home. Like, I made sure to, like, like, just include him and, you know, uplift you as much as I could. But little did I know that that show is going to take over, like, my life, like, come In. In all ways. I mean that in all ways. Going into it again on Cloud nine, I was so excited. Did not realize how rigorous the training is. It is possibly one of the hardest things that I've ever done for my body, mentally and also emotionally. The show days are really fun. I. That was obviously probably one of my favorite, favorite parts. Just, you know, working with the costume team and performing live, being in the ballroom, like that. Those feelings, I could never, like, shake. Like, I'm. I will always have that with me. But on the flip side, as we all know, it's tv. Yeah. And there's a part of it that a story always has to get told. And, you know, my premiere night, I placed top of the leaderboard. And so for me, I was like, oh, my gosh, like, this is great. We're off to a great start. And I was, like, really happy. But I think that was, like, the top. And then I had a long crash coming down, and I, again, did not know. Was not prepared for that. I think they saw someone as someone who is very naturally competitive, but, like, if anything, more competitive with myself. Like, I want to. To be the best at anything that I put my mind to or that I do. So week after week, you know, I'm showing up and putting in the hours, putting in the work. I'm drained. Coming home, still trying to find time to do, like, a little date night. Like, I'm doing it all. And as the show progressed, obviously it's live, so I'm watching and reacting to all this, like, in real time. The tune from the audience just kind of started to switch a little bit, and I was not really understanding why. Truly, like, not understanding. And you can ask anybody that's in my, like, support system equally baffled, like, not really knowing what's going on. And again, I think it just boils down to what's digestible for audience. And in a competition show, if anything is posed potentially as a threat to maybe your favorite or your person who's top at your list, we need to get them out. Like, they need to go. And that was kind of what I started to face. Just really insane comments. Yeah.

[C]

Talk about. Yeah, I mean, talk about. So it's funny you left that out. But what would happen was because, like, she was. Is obviously the top, and she was clearly one of the more talented people that should have make it far early on. Yeah. So she. You sort of know the rankings, and then, like, you know, week three comes by and she gets a six or seven. Right. She doesn't get it. She's like, I need to do better. She's beating herself up. And then the comments are like, wow, like, look how aggressive she. You know what I'm saying? Like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, no, more aggressive is crazy. No more blatant. No more blatant display of what a covert racism. Like, that's just what it is, right? And like, like. And so, like, I didn't realize at the time, but it was tearing her up inside. But, like, you know, I'm like, you getting your bag?

[D]

You.

[C]

We still in this? Like, hey, let's go. You know, like, thank God. But. But, yeah, no, it's crazy, man. And you just see it so obvious, and you're just like, in 2026 still, like, you're thinking like this. Like, you type in these words.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, you hitting enter.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, like, that. That's a perfect. And she deal with that throughout the whole season anytime if she wasn't like, you have to be. Be literally perfect.

[B]

I mean, and then beyond perfect.

[C]

Beyond perfect. And then meanwhile, look at the Bachelor. Look, our latest bachelor. That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, bro, the standard is crazy. And again, I just want people to recognize it, man. It's really not that difficult, right? Like, it'll take some time, but it's not difficult. But, yeah, she dealt with that a lot.

[B]

Yeah. And I'll. I'll go. I'll tag on to what you said about just kind of, like, you know, scoring and stuff. So, like, obviously we would do interviews and, like, they would ask, oh, so what was your score score this week? And I'd be like, oh, I got an 8, you know, or let me not even say a. It's great. I got a seven. Not my best, but, like, I ideally would want to get a nine. Like, that's like, what I'm shooting for. That's what I'm aiming for, literally. And it's just me answering the question and that being in my package for, like, the next week. It's like, all she talks about is her scores. She thinks she's better than everyone. Like, oh, she just is so cocky. She's so conceited. When I. When I go up and been obviously never happy because I'm. I'm stressed. Like, I'm stressed. I'm scared. Like, I'm anxious. It's like the. There's more than just one emotion of, like, okay, someone's aggressive and, like, ready to fight you. Like, that doesn't even exist on this. Like, let's use context here and it's like I'm getting, I'm up on stage getting my scores from like Julianne. And it's like, oh, she has an attitude problem. She's not smiling. And then if I am smiling, oh my God, she thinks she's better. So it's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. And then, and that when I say I've never really been so like, merged in the, like wedged between those two things in my life, I was like, how do I, like, how do I maneuver this? Like, I literally don't even know how to get out of this.

[A]

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[D]

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[C]

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[B]

and I was like, honestly, I just need to get through to the end of this. And, like, that is what's so hard for me to say, like, even to this day, in this moment, is that the experience went from something that was, like, so exciting to me to, like, I just need to survive this. Like, I just need to get out of this. And, like, once I'm done, I can be like, I'm done. I had my time. Thank you so much. Like, that's. That's all you get, you know? And so, yeah. Yeah. Just very, very hard. And I. I wish that it wasn't. But again, I can also recognize how grateful I am for it. I'm very. Still close with some of the pros, so, you know, that makes me happy. But, yeah, it should not have been that case for me at all. Because the following year, we see the same kind of treatment happen to Chandler, who placed third. She was in. Honestly, I don't even want to say. Insanely talented. Probably one of the most talented people that I have seen on Dancing with the Star course. And the treatment she got, horrific.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Year after year, the same. Like, it just. It doesn't stop. And I'm like, at some point, it's not that people are not aware of the trends. Y' all are just ignoring it. And it's like, because it doesn't affect you. It doesn't matter. That's not how life is. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And it's so hard in social media times because, like, 20 years ago, people would just pick up their phones and vote however you see fit. But then you get on social media, and then you see everyone on, you know, dog piling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're like, well, I'm gonna jump on board as well.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Talent out the window.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's just like, you're already, like, fighting a losing battle.

[B]

Yes. What are they. What do they call, like, echo chambers? Yes. I'm like, that is literally what. Yeah. I'm sorry. Tick tock is. It's like, you see five comments where everyone's like, oh, my God, I love this dance. Then now the whole thing is like, oh, my God, the dance was amazing. It's like, no one has independent thinking anymore. Like, if you say, I didn't like, the, like, you know what I mean? Like, then say it. But it's like, it is. Everything is such an. It actually drives me insane. I'm like, okay, so we can't think

[A]

for our own, like, basket toss, though. Lives rent free.

[B]

Period.

[A]

Lives rent free.

[B]

In my head, honestly, I was like, the most freeing night because I was like, this is my last dance. I'm done with this shit. Thank God. But then also, I'm like, no, I'm doing something I love, you know? And I had, like, the cheer people from Netflix with me. I love them so much. It was the best week of my life. So I was grateful for that too. Yeah. Crazy. But here we are.

[A]

That was so good. You and I would have been. I will say that because that definitely.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy.

[A]

I feel like we need a sub show. I need, like, a sub show.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I don't have to wrap up so quick because I'm like, I want to hear more.

[B]

I know.

[A]

We just go to dinner.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So let's discuss the headlines right now about the canceled Bachelorette season because what the helly? What are your thoughts right now after you heard about Taylor, Frankie, Paul, and what's going on with the Bachelorette? Where's your head Said.

[B]

Honestly, it's like, this is a great question. To sum everything up, kind of just what everything. We just talked about a little bit of, like, just the double standard. I will say from someone who is very empathetic, I. I'm an empath in everything that I do or try to be. I'm very sad. I'm very sad for her situation. And obviously, I know that we don't have all the facts, but what we are presented with and what we are shown with, that's also what we have to go with. Very sad for her. I want her and Dakota to truly be in the best mental state. Well, being for their children. There's children present, and I think people are also forgetting that somehow we're just bypassing that. I don't know how, but there's children present. And I'm like, these are their parents. This is the environment that they are living in. It's not conducive. It's not good. Watching the video. It's not good. Horrific.

[A]

Terrifying.

[B]

Horrific. Yeah. On the flip side, that's from 2023. 2023.

[A]

So how do we get here?

[B]

And that's. It's a thing.

[A]

How did we get here?

[B]

Thank you. So it's like, you know, and I will. I will quote.

[C]

That's tired.

[B]

No. And I'm. I'm gonna say true because obviously I've spoken about this. Kind of have to like stay, stay consistent. And nothing that I'm saying is like different. But I will quote what Rachel Lindsay talked about. She talked about this on her podcast Higher Learning. And I was like, oh, this is actually like, she just spoke it so well, so eloquently. It's interesting again that they were okay with taking the risk for someone like Taylor when we just discussed, you know, the obstacles that we are still. Yeah. Hopping through as a success story from this franchise. And it's like, that's not a risk, but somehow uplifting this or like maybe pouring more money into my season and having a bigger budget. That's a risk. We, we can't, we gotta be very careful with that. But this is not now you don't have a season. Hello. So that is, that is where I was like Rachel said that so well and I'm like, I don't know. And like, honestly, very eloquently, like I was like, it's nothing against, against Taylor. I think everyone, I at least am very supportive of her finding love. She's deserving. No one's saying she's not. Like, everybody's deserving of love. But I think I want everyone to be just very mindful of the standard that we're setting. Because if we're going to set that standard, that standard has to be applied to everybody. And it's not. And that's just again the reality that we are in. And that is where I have a struggle with, with on the flip side. But also naturally, as a woman of color, as a black woman in reality tv and coming from that franchise, that grace is not given. It's not given to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dot. And it's not given to me. If I was to do that the season beyond cancel, I'm like, the network would collapse. Like, and that's just. No. And that's just the reason. And that's what I'm saying. And so it's like I'm not here to like on her. Like, I, again, I am fully supportive of her well being. I want her to like get help. I want, you know, I want everything to work out. But it's just, it's this two way street of like, okay, well how can we now set this standard? Because I'm like, oh, well then this is, this is the mark that you guys are going to make. So everything that follows after this, make sure you're giving that to everybody else. That's after. Because now you are setting the tone that's ex. That's essentially what you're doing. And it's. It's. It's. It's frustrating to see. It really is frustrating. It's hard. While also trying to just be empathetic to it all.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Truly. No, you said it. Listen, it's Bachelorette situation, first of all, I'm not surprised. I ain't shocked, right. When they, when they cast it, you know, I was like, huh, interesting choice.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, but I understood why. Obviously didn't know about the DV stuff. But even then, you could still. Still see there was like, I don't know, but whatever, you know, it is what it is. And yeah, everything coming out, it just reinforces what we've just been saying, which is just like, like, the standards are so freaking different. And like, I just wish some of these networks, like, like, take a stand, yo. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I know you got to make money and do what's right, but, like, take a stand and do what's right or at least try to attempt to slowly move in the right direction.

[A]

Help us.

[C]

Yes, help us either. And it's like, honestly, go all in or don't. Like, yeah, don't get. Don't have us on the show then. Right? Just, just don't be. Oh, we're fighting criticism. Let's get a black person, like, just go all white then. It's fine. Right? And then, like, let other people, like, I would rather have that pretending of like, oh, so he needs a permanent mic.

[B]

No, you get a mic.

[C]

I mean, for real. It's like, it's like, you know, don't. This performative stuff, it's, It's. It. It hurts more than it helps, you know, at this point. And so, yeah, I, I just wish that they. They had done better. And I wish that, you know, it wasn't such a big contrast to our season. Like, remember, throughout the whole time since they chose her, I've been telling charity, we see billboards, we're like, yo, they are throwing money behind this season. Like, wow, this is incredible. I've never seen anything like that. Come to find that they knew all this stuff prior. Right. Whether they. They're going to admit it or not, they did.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

The, The. I know the vetting process I had to go through. Right? They sure as hell have that for her. I mean, you're talking about. You're seeing like, obviously, like a therapist, three hour call, thousand questionnaire. They have a full profile of who you are. They know Everything. Background check.

[A]

So, I mean, even if we didn't know exactly who she was, we saw enough on tv.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

There was enough public.

[C]

That's what I said.

[A]

The alone.

[C]

Imagine if she was on.

[B]

I hate to say it, but it's

[C]

like, I feel like. Like you said, like, we. None of this is super surprising. Like, she was obviously a wild card from the jump. Like, very obvious. I feel like we can get people that are entertaining and good people, like, not. She's not a bad person. I don't want to make that clear. But, like, clearly that's not someone you want to be platforming, putting on tv. It's possible there are people out there who are entertaining and also really good people without a history. Right. Why can you not find those people?

[A]

Right. And there were women that were single from her show as well, that were also truly.

[B]

And also from the franchise. But, hey, that's neither here nor there. I don't. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

That part.

[B]

Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[C]

And this was their, like, I don't know, like, like their build. Ultimate moment. Let's make sure she's white. Let's make sure she's got a following. Let's make sure she's crazy.

[B]

They.

[A]

They crazy.

[C]

They. They try to hit every box and around and find out that's the case without that video, without Dakota, nobody would have said. Nobody would have known anything. And she'd have kept making more money and she would have kept. You know what I'm saying? Like, but she still. Yeah, no, exactly. She's only gained followers. Right. She still gained followers. This girl will lose half her followers if she posts.

[A]

Post.

[B]

You know, I posted go vote, and I lost 20k followers.

[C]

I'm telling you, go vote. She's gaining followers. Again, nothing personal. This is a bigger conversation than any individual.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If you're listening to this, you're not that important.

[B]

That's why I was like, yeah, bigger conversation.

[A]

Because, my goodness, you guys, this is. I feel like I need a sub show. I keep saying that because I feel like we're not going. No. We're barely scratching the surface. And it's like, so relatable on so, so many levels. And it's across networks, it's across production. It's a. It is a nationwide, worldwide thing. That's just like, are we okay?

[B]

No, literally, I'm like, I. I didn't want you to get all of the people from Love is Blind Bachelor that are like, yeah, in a room.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I'm talking about the same.

[B]

The dialogue would be Incredible.

[A]

Just confused.

[B]

I know. Literally, you just confused.

[A]

Is it. Wait, Charity. But you met her on before the Rose special.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What was that like?

[B]

Honestly, that was such a fun day. We didn't really spend a whole lot of time with Taylor, minus the conversations that we had. I feel like she asked, like, a lot of questions. She was, like, engaged. And I feel like she wanted to, like, know as much as she could. But also, I think the other highlight was just, like, being able to meet all the other Bachelorettes. Like, obviously, we are all in a group chat. We know of each other on social media, but a lot of us have not had the opportunity to meet, meet. So being in the same room was just very, like. It was, like, nostalgic, but also very, like. I don't know, like, it was just really good. It was very joyous and, like, happy to have all of us there for, like, one solid reason, I should say. But, yeah, she was. She was very friendly, very, you know, open, and she wasn't in the nitty gritty yet, so I think. Yeah, she was still.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you, either of you surprised that they canceled the whole season then?

[B]

Yeah, actually, I was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will say that according to Bachelor happy hour, it's paused. So that's the. That's the thing. We don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like, I have a feeling that they might. I don't know.

[C]

It's coming back. Yeah. There's no way.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like they're gonna.

[C]

So much money.

[B]

Yeah. They're gonna somehow, even for now, something's gonna get salvage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Charity, as someone with a master's degree in mental health counseling, what are your thoughts on someone who may be struggling with their mental health TV show like the Bachelorette?

[B]

My guy today, my favorite thing to talk about. You should not do it. I. I just. It. You should not do it. The risk is too. It's far too great than it is what your reward would be. And I say this as someone, I'm just going to speak from experience. And I also made a video about this, and I stand by it. 10 toes. When you are going into an environment that is going to create such a vulnerable experience for you, but also seeking a vulnerable thing, which is love. It's so vulnerable. You don't know. Like, you can't predict. Oh, it might go this way. You genuinely never know. It's love. That's how love is. You owe it to yourself to show up as best as you can. And obviously, I know, there's a saying of, like, oh, my God. Like, well, you know, life doesn't always, like, work out where everything's lined up. I understand that that's a given. But it's like, you also would be doing, like, yourself a disservice if you are not somewhat prepared. That's like going to a job interview and you don't, like. You have no idea, like, what the quote, what you're interviewing for. And I feel like. Like it's so much on you emotionally. It's so much on you physically. It's so much on you mentally that I came. I, like, still to this day, which we are almost three years removed, almost. I am still, like, adjusting just, like, sight, like, psychologically, like, emotionally, just trying to figure out, like, oh, wow, I went through this grand experience and it changed my life for the better, thank God. But I'm still adjusting. And it's like the impacts that being in reality TV filming has on people, they don't. The audience doesn't get it. They won't get it unless you sign up and go on a show. But I'm like. I'm saying it was very hard for me to adjust coming back to life and going through that. And I did a whole year of, like, therapy beforehand. I was in the trenches, like, deep. I was like, I am preparing. I was, like, speaking over myself. Like, I. I genuinely thought, like, okay, I took this so serious. The opportunity of finding love. That's how serious and real it was for me. Of, like, I'm gonna do everything that I can to show up as the best part of myself. And we, like, even joke about it today. It's like, yeah, obviously we presented our best versions of ourselves, but that's also kind of take. Taking it back to what we talked about, like, coming off this show, it's like, yeah, now maybe a little bit of that. I don't want to say Mass Falls, but it's like, you know, reality. Now you see a little bit of how I deal with. Oh, yeah. When we're in crisis or how, you know, how we deal and, you know, manage something else, it's like, it is different. And that's a part of us, like, obviously going through together as a couple, but, you know, beforehand, it's like, that's. That's just what I feel like is important. And if you are not in the place to go or if you're not in a good mental place, you should not be on reality TV and not worth this unless you don't care. And if you don't care. And you want to just play a character, then by all means do so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But for me it was. This was not a game.

[A]

So I say that too. Like, go to therapy before. Go during if you can.

[B]

Like all three.

[A]

And then after that.

[B]

Yeah, no, keep going.

[A]

Like, we need help. That's not a normal experience. It's not normal.

[B]

Literally not. Yeah. And I again, I'm like, I try to explain. It's like even talking to like, some of my friends from like, not this space. They don't get it. Yeah, they will not get it. And it's like I can just. I'm just like venting to them and they're like, yeah, like, okay, okay. But like, people who have been in this, you know, realm, they. They kind of get it. But as a lead, it's like I have to depend on like, obviously the other bachelorettes or just, you know, other people who have similar experiences. And it's very challenging. It's very challenging. And I always think of you too. Like, you can add to it of just like mental health wise. Of how, how much things change, like, and how hard it is.

[C]

It's very tough. Yeah. It's not. It's not as easy. Like I said in the beginning. Beginning as it seems. And like, for me, I've had like again, all the travel and everything. Like, it's taking a number of my health. Right? So it's like my health. My lower back has gotten worse. I will say this on, I think, like, you could maybe do a show. Because I think the experience is amazing. Right. Like, I do, like, I think it's incredible. If you're someone who wants to live life and like, get the most out of it and do novel experiences, it's great. But yeah, don't do it. It maybe unless you really know who you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that comes at a certain age, right? Like, yeah, before 30, probably not.

[A]

Frontal load. They say 25.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Not enough for reality TV. That's. I don't apply to reality TV. Reality TV brain is like 35, like dead ass. That's a whole different lobe. You got to develop. Not ain't even frontal lobe. So like facts. So, yeah, I would say, like, you really got to know who you are. Like, that's probably the biggest, biggest thing. And the ones who get the most lost are the ones who don't know who they are because you're not gonna have time to find it.

[A]

Yeah. And the world will tell you exactly who you are.

[B]

And you gotta Be ready for that.

[A]

You got to be that person.

[C]

Exactly. Or. Or, you know, defend. And now you're spending your time instead of learning who you are.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Responding to what other people think you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That. That. That is a hellish nightmare that you are gonna regret when you're 40 years old.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It's not. It's not.

[A]

And nobody cares about you.

[C]

Nobody's gonna eventually care about you. I was gonna care about me at some point. Yeah. Nobody's probably going to care about you.

[B]

Maybe.

[C]

Who knows, though? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's just the case. So at some point, all this ends. We don't know no bachelors from 15 years ago. And we don't, you know, they're not in the. In the public. So eventually, you're just going to be left with yourself again. You better be happy with who you are.

[A]

I love that. Well, that was fun.

[B]

That was good.

[A]

Wait, how long are y' all in la?

[B]

I'm like, I. I want to extend our flight. I know it's tomorrow, but I'm like, have to see if we can extend it for maybe a day.

[A]

If you do or if you don't, we are here and Holly and I, we would love to do dinner.

[B]

That would be great.

[A]

That would be. And even just talk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we don't even know.

[B]

I know. I'm like, I just. I also need to hear so much to say. I know. I need to hear yalls experience. I am just so curious about everything.

[A]

I mean, pretty similar. Yeah. All good things. Just like that.

[B]

Yeah. All good things.

[C]

For the best part, we need to create a union for black.

[B]

That's why I told AD I said,

[A]

we will be the president.

[B]

Hello. I will lead. Listen in charge. Emily's taking me out.

[A]

No, I love, loved this conversation. And we need more of this. Like, we need to not be afraid to get behind the mic and talk our reality. Because that is the point of this. Like, what is our reality? People need to, like, they don't hear it. They don't see it enough. They just like, oh, they'll be fine. They'll be fine. They're on tv. They're fine. They're getting brand deals and they're public figures and blah. They'll be fine. So there's so much. Yeah, there's so much more. And this conversation was so important. But again, it is just the tip of the iceberg, y'. All. Like, there is so much. Yeah, but you carry it so well, so gracefully. So beautiful. This is beautiful. Like, I Love how you guys have each other's back and like, it's just, I love this energy. It's just a beautiful couple all around.

[B]

You're the best. No, this was such an honor to come and do. I've been waiting. So you have to have us back. Well before, before we go.

[A]

What is next for y'? All? I know we're doing weddings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's next?

[B]

I'm like, wedding, wedding, wedding, wedding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What else? I'm like, I'm kind of just focused on kind of navigating career of just what I want to do. I think I won't tease too much,

[A]

but just kind of any more reality tv?

[B]

No, no. I mean, maybe like I don't want to say no reality tv. Like I'm down to do something that's like a competition, like couple or something. But like, like obviously I'm not looking for love, none of that nonsense. And if I'm going to be put in a house with people, they better be somewhat. Well, so that part.

[A]

Yeah, that part. Don't lock me in the same asylum.

[B]

No TV right now. But I won't say it's off the tables and then dot anything you have.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Similar sort of really this year, two things is, is my health and also sort of rebranding because of everything we sort of talked about. It's been hard to put myself out there there because even like conversations like this, like, unfortunately my followers are still bachelor. They're not, it's not going to click. I can't be like main content around. So like, I, I, this is a year where for me I need to start to step into that a little bit more, be more comfortable, like not care about the numbers and stuff like that again, which goes back to what we're talking about. Like these are things I'm constantly thinking of and struggling with and you would never know. You probably think, oh, he's just chill, like he doesn't want to post. But it's like I want to pose. It's, it's great and, but like, I just don't know how to like really connect with that. So this year is for that and again, my health too. So like won't get into that. But I've got like some pretty significant lower back stuff that's got a lot worse since the show. So yeah, it's been on a good journey up and up and like hope hoping that my goal is on the wedding day that like both those things are, are complete and come to fruition. So making good progress so far.

[A]

Yeah, I love that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm praying for y'. All. And you guys have. Have a spa on this couch any day. You show up on a Wednesday and you're like, I got something to say.

[B]

Okay? Period.

[A]

Call me.

[B]

Call me. And don't give me the invitation.

[A]

I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I am not kidding. Any place, anytime. We can talk. So thank you guys for joining me.

[B]

Love you. Thank you, thank you.

[C]

Give you your flowers too. You have a great season. You were showering her. She didn't even shower even. No compliments.

[B]

I did.

[C]

No, you didn't. You had a great season. Charity really.

[B]

Did he actually for real?

[C]

And like, she was like, I remember right after season ended, we were like my biggest a. Like, hey, like I said in the car, if I'm your op, then the truth is your op.

[B]

I'm crying.

[C]

If I'm your op, the truth is your op. I don't make the rules here. Okay, but you killed it. Great season.

[A]

You don't know what me and AD

[B]

talk about, so that's fine. But yes.

[C]

Day one. So happy for all your success.

[B]

Appreciate it.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

So Oli said, what's up?

[B]

Too.

[A]

I need to do a link cuz you guys have a lot to do.

[C]

No, no, no, actually. And I liked Ollie too. I really did. And that's hard for me to like

[B]

a lot of these shows.

[A]

That's hard. So funny.

[C]

Started speaking a lot of sense and making. I was like, I don't know about this guy, but towards me, I was

[B]

like a little bit of sense about it

[C]

all.

[A]

Thank you and thank you guys for joining me for another episode of what's the Reality? Be sure to follow us on all social platforms at what's the Reality? Pod and I will see you next Wednesday. Bye, y'. All. What's the reality? What's the reality?

[B]

Traditional home security only alerts you after a break in. And that's too late. Simplisafe is changing that.

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Stop. This is Simplisafe. Police are on the way.

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We don't just alert, we stop crime before it starts. Simplisafe plans starting around a dollar a day. Save 50% on your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com sxm or with promo code sxm Outdoor deterrence requires a

[C]

Simplisafe active guard outdoor protection plan starting at 49.99amonth.

[B]

Visit simplisafe.com licenses for alarm license information.

[C]

Tennessee 2012.

[D]

You wouldn't take financial advice from a 72 hours in a single day. Alpha Influencer, would you? Same goes if you're in a car accident or any accident, who you choose matters. That's why Morgan and Morgan exists. They're the largest injury law firm in America, and they've built a reputation by actually winning cases, not just talking about it. Over a thousand lawyers across all 50 states. And $30 billion. Recovered, injured. Go to forthepeople.com podcast. That's forthepeople.com podcast.