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- [00:03]
A
This is a global production. Cami Badenok, she had quite a tricky task this week because she didn't go for the jugular with Keir Starmer. In fact, she was quite sympathetic to him in some ways. But she did go for Bridget Phillipson. She did go for Rachel Reeves. And she called Bridget Phillipson a spiteful class warrior for imposing VAT on private schools. Now, I thought, that's quite a good phrase. And then she went for Andy Burnham and called him two eyelashes and a black T shirt, which I thought was quite good. And then did you see that video that Andy Burnham did in response to it? I thought, this is quite funny. I wonder whether he would do this if he was Prime Minister. I hope he does. In some ways, he just got his camera up to do, like, effectively, a video selfie and he. And he goes. He looks down, goes. It's dark blue, actually. And I just thought that was quite good timing. There was excellent. Tessa and I are bereft and the reason is because I have displayed complete and utter incompetence. Incompetence, I tell you, because we have just spent 45 minutes recording what we both agree is probably one of our best podcasts ever. Tessa, do you want to tell them why it isn't going to be the best podcast ever?
- [01:22]
B
Ian, have. Having expended a great deal of hot air, having exposed himself as a climate dinosaur, having browbeaten me over former Conservative policies on electric cars, then suddenly, midway through a piece on Kemi Badenoch's compassion for her best friend, Bridget Phillipson said, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I thought, my goodness, is he having a stroke? What's happened? Is the dog biting his big toe? Oh, dear. Is life in Tunbridge Wells not suiting him? No. Oh, my God, Tessa. Oh, my God. I thought, he's spasming. What do I do? John's in the gym and he said, I forgot to press record.
- [02:00]
A
This is what happens when we don't have Corey to basically control, chaos breaks out. And, I mean, I'm so. I'm so horrified by it, because there was one bit in that which would have made such a good clip. When I got Tessa to admit that Brexit, in the case of electric vehicle dates, was actually a good thing. But we'll never hear it now.
- [02:26]
B
Never mind, Ian. I mean, life is full of regrets. The benefit of hindsight, what I'm really enjoying about this moment is from now on, whenever you've got a slight paddy about me arriving a few minutes late, not being prepared, pronouncing something incorrectly. I'm just gonna go press recordian. Press record. Give me back 45 minutes of my life, my friend. Anyway, we would like to tell you that we've now rehearsed, we have been really professional and we spent 45 minutes practicing our arguments. So if we fuck them up this time, everybody, it really is because of my concussion. Ian and I are going to impart our wisdom on the climate. We're going to expose Ian some as something worse than a climate denier. Oh, he is.
- [03:14]
A
I have never said anything, anything that you could call me that. And it's a horrible phrase to use because we all know what the connotations are.
- [03:22]
B
And I'm saying you're something worse than that because you recognize the climate is changing, that this is the responsibility of humankind. It's because of our actions.
- [03:32]
A
No, I'm not.
- [03:32]
B
And yet, really, Ian, I think you're at best lethargic about what we should do about it. I would suggest that you're protected by your privilege. That's why you don't really.
- [03:43]
A
Are you sure it's not because I'm a man? Look, I recognize that climate change is happening. I recognize that climate change has always happened in. It's a natural phenomenon. However, I do also recognize that in the last hundred years, climate change has been exacerbated by human activity. The problem is that there are still people in this world who don't recognize that, and they think that it is just all natural climate change and that things will revert to their natural levels over time. And the problem there is that the climate change ideologues, some people call them zealots, I'll call them ideologues, people who have been warning about this for donkey's years, who now see all their predictions coming true. In their view, they are so dogmatic that they don't think they need to persuade anyone anymore because they say the argument is one. Well, it isn't one. If you have a substantial minority of people who don't believe it now, you can come out and say, well, 99% of scientists do believe it. And they'll say, yeah, but there are still lots of scientists who won't come out of the closet because they know that they'll lose all their government funding if they do so. I don't. I think part of the problem that we have here is that ever since this became a major issue in the 1990s, you have had people, and it's a bit like the Brexit argument, people thought they could win the Brexit argument by calling opponents of the EU stupid and racist and whatever. That's exactly how they think they've won the debate on climate change. But what they've done is entrenched people in their, in their positions because they made no attempt to persuade them whatsoever.
- [05:31]
B
First of all, I commend you for just cutting your way through any fluff there. We didn't have to hear about John working out in the gym, which by the way, you got in the first edition of the pod, the unrecorded edition, because, wait for it, the Tunbridge Wells recycling unit was closed, so Ian and John were unable to flex their muscles tossing mattress into the tip. And therefore John has gone to work out in an air conditioned gym.
- [05:54]
A
No, that is not.
- [05:55]
B
Ian gets a good licking from his dogs.
- [05:58]
A
That is a complete travesty of what's happened today. Yes, you're right in. In honor of your visit to this said establishment on Saturday for our barbecue. Although I'm beginning to think I might rescind the invitation in honor of that. We're trying to get the house in some sort of semblance of order. John hasn't actually seen through my little tactics because every couple of years I think, oh, let's have a little social do at the farm because then I know that he's going to spend two days tidying up, cleaning and making the house look as about as good as it can. And of course that's what's happening now. So that involves clearing out the garage. So you see what you've started here. You're going to regret it now, but
- [06:37]
B
I can find you talking rubbish about
- [06:39]
A
the climate, clearing out the garage and taking it all to the tip. And we've done two loads so far and this afternoon we loaded up a third load, but the tips closed because the poor little workers there are so hot that they can't work. Yeah, they are out in the open. Absolutely right. But is it beyond their wit to construct a bit of shade somewhere? I mean, they do work in a tip, for goodness sake.
- [07:03]
B
In other words, there isn't sufficient infrastructure and I would argue one of the reasons why this country has been exposed for lacking any decent infrastructure to manage heat, which it has been in the last three days. It's been turned over. Okay. Luckily we've had the King of the north to focus on and therefore we're desperately trying to pretend that we haven't noticed we're melting. But it's because of the use of the word and you kept on using it there, Ian. Belief. Believe in climate change? No, this was baked into scientific reality. In fact, much of the science behind understanding how climate change happens was established in the 1800s. It then became a self fulfilling prophecy when billions more people arrive on the planet.
- [07:46]
A
What do you mean? It was, it was created in the 1800s. Andrews.
- [07:49]
B
No, no, the science, the understanding, the science behind what might happen.
- [07:54]
A
I'm sorry, who created it in the 1800s?
- [07:57]
B
I. They didn't create it, but there was several scientists, a couple of them by the way, Swedish, who gradually they all stand on the shoulders of each other, but started to understand the implications of greenhouse gases, global warming, etc. Why? Why the climate changes? What you did then was you add in vital human ingredients, billions of us and the extensive. In fact, it takes off in an unprecedented way in the wake of the Second World War, the burning, the global burning of oil, gas, coal, at the same time as we start hacking down trees like never before. And the impact is climate change, which we are feeling like never before right now. And the reason we haven't got the infrastructure in place, Ian, is because far too much of the establishment mainstream media have injected an element of doubt with words like belief. They've politicized it and that's why we're
- [08:55]
A
in a fucking mess.
- [08:57]
B
They've politicized it.
- [08:58]
A
Oh, so it's the media's fault. I'm surprised it isn't men's fault and it's also political.
- [09:03]
B
I mean, it's the establishment's fault. I want to come to a. Who would you say has been one of the most establishment broadcasters? You know the answer to this because we did it in the last unrecorded pod, you great buffoon. Who would you say is one of the most establishment broadcasters?
- [09:15]
A
I mean, let me, let me think. Does my memory stretch back 40 minutes? Would it possibly be Melvin Bragg by any chance?
- [09:24]
B
How did you guess? Melvin Bragg, who is a lord who is on received wisdom, one of the greatest minds in Britain today, an eminent
- [09:35]
A
broadcast and someone with one of the best haircuts in Britain. Well, maybe not quite. He's still got luxuriant locks at the age of 80, whatever he is. But in his heyday, heyday, oh, I was so jealous of his hair.
- [09:48]
B
I always assumed beneath those locks he had a better brain than you. But after I went back in time today and I listened to a 26 year old in our time about the climate, I have had real doubts about Melvin Bragg. So we're going to come to that after the break. More on why Ian will be serving me English champagne at the weekend. Will you stretch to that?
- [10:11]
A
Well, I brought champagne to your do at Christmas, so I'm assuming that you're going to bring champagne to mine.
- [10:17]
B
No. Because of the pages factors.
- [10:19]
A
No.
- [10:19]
B
And also because Corey drank the champagne that you brought to my party.
- [10:22]
A
That's very true. But as I, I formed, as you know, I formed a little WhatsApp group, but I did actually text people individually to say what kind of things would you like to drink on Saturday? And it doesn't seem as though many people are going to be drinking alcohol.
- [10:36]
B
Oh, don't worry, you can supply the champagne and if it's uncorked, I'll just pop it in the back of the car. Let's go to a break.
- [10:45]
A
Right, so educate us about what Lord Bragg of wherever he is. In fact, while you're, while you're educating us, I will look up to see where he is of. Because the really good news, the really
- [10:56]
B
good news is because we're doing this pod for the second time. I've actually worked out how to say
- [10:59]
A
his name every time. She kept saying Melville.
- [11:04]
B
He basically had on his show at the very beginning of the year 2000 after, and I quote him, the weather had given the planet a terrible Blue beating in 1999. There were all sorts of major incidents, tens of thousands of people dying in typhoons and hurricane, Hurricane Floyd I think was probably the most famous because of course it wreaked havoc in America.
- [11:28]
A
Yeah, there have been lots of, there are always lots of hurricanes and tornadoes in America every single year, of course. But they're. What's the word? The regularity of their occurrence, admittedly over the last 10 or 15 years has increased.
- [11:42]
B
Do you believe that or do you know that to be a fact?
- [11:44]
A
No, it is a fact.
- [11:46]
B
I'm just testing in. Right, so he had two significant guests on, one of whom is now very well known as a climate expert and journalist, George Monbiot.
- [11:58]
A
Monbiot.
- [12:00]
B
Well, maybe on the third take of this pod, I'll get that one right. And another. He shall remain nameless scientist because I forgot to annotate. But he was sufficiently high profile to be on every single significant scientific board at the time of record. And I was really struck by Lord Bragg. I don't think he was Lord at the time. His attack, his. He argued, playing devil's advocate.
- [12:23]
A
Yeah, but that's what his role is. And you see this. I go, no, it is, I get that all the time where I'm, I'm interviewing somebody and even if I agree with them, I appear not to be agreeing with them because I have to put the other point of view. That's all he would have been doing.
- [12:38]
B
How can you be sure? He kept saying, you bang on about this. He said to Monbiot, you bang on about it in your articles. It's the book of Revelations. You're injecting a climate of fear, he said, making us scared.
- [12:50]
A
Well, you know what?
- [12:51]
B
26 years later, are you afraid? No, people are afraid.
- [12:56]
A
People, people are afraid because they keep being told, this is a younger generation, this is a Gen Z thing. Gen Z have grown up by being told by countless people like George Monbiot that there is going to be climate Armageddon within their lifetimes. It's bollocks, actually, Ian.
- [13:13]
B
The rate of the change is much faster than even the worst scaremongering scientists had us believe. They were talking just a few years ago, including on this pod, of a 1.5 global increase in temperature, 1.5 degrees. That was seen as something we could manage, but we had to scramble to a net zero to hold it at that. They predicted that would occur between the years. I was going to get you to guess, but you know, because of the last pod, 2030 to 2050, instead, they've now revised those predictions. We are going to have a temperature that is, on average across the planet, 1.5 degrees hotter before 2029. That is what the most recent research suggests. That's terrifying, Ian.
- [14:03]
A
Well, it's terrifying because we've been told that it's terrifying. The fact is that many countries in the world, particularly in Asia, have existed with these temperatures for goodness knows how long. We're not used to it, so therefore we think it is terrifying and Armageddon is about to arrive. But if it is as terrifying as you say, and the problem that all of the people like George Monbiot have got is that they have been, they've adopted the wrong tactics. What they should have done is instead of frightening people, they should have tried to persuade people. And, and, and you're shaking your head at that, which I thought, I find astonishing because you cannot get, if you're trying to, to persuade people to change their habits in the way they live their lives, what they eat, what they drink, what cars they drive and all the rest of it, fine, you can use a stick however long you like, but in the end you need to introduce a bit of carrot too. And that's the problem here, that there's been all stick and no carrot. Now, many of us, and myself included, have changed the way that we do things.
- [15:10]
B
Really. How do you change the way you do things?
- [15:12]
A
I eat less red meat. I drive an electric car, which, if you told me that sort of five or six years ago, I'd have laughed in your face.
- [15:19]
B
That means you've got a taxi break under Rishi before he swiveled on the dates.
- [15:24]
A
It was partly because I could. Yes, it was partly because of that. You're absolutely right. But. But that's what I mean. This is where the nudge theory of politics comes into practice. If you nudge people to do the right things, and that can involve tax breaks, then you see what the effect of that will be. And sure enough, the sales of electric cars started to rise nowadays, I think, partly because of the war in Iran and the rise in diesel and petrol prices, that there's been another push to electric cars. And. And the secondhand market of electric cars is massive now. Two years ago, you couldn't flog an electric car in the secondhand market if you tried. So there are all sorts of ways of trying to persuade people, but in the end, individuals can change however much they like, but in the end it's going to be government action that is the crucial thing here, leadership. And we in this country have shown brilliant leadership in this across governments. Right from Tony Blair. Well, you could argue, actually going back to John Major with when Kyoto started in 1992, we have done more than any other European country on the environment, particularly on reducing carbon emissions. Only one other country in the EU has a better record than us in reducing carbon emissions since 1990, and that is Norway, Sweden. So we've got a good record there. And I think sometimes we need to blow our own trumpet a bit. We have the highest number of wind turbines in. Off. Offshore wind turbines. Turbines in the whole of Europe. I mean, we are in Ireland, so that's not necessarily something that is a surprise, but we have a good record there. But how many people in the British electorate know these things, that we have a good record on this because we keep being told by the green, I'll use the word zealots, that we. We're terrible in this country because it buys into this whole narrative that this country is basically that nothing works, that everything is going wrong and therefore we are bad people? Well, on the environment, we are not bad people. We have a really, really good record. And sometimes politicians should shout about it a bit more.
- [17:27]
B
I think that we can own as an archipelago and a rich archipelago, we are unusually well placed to embrace green technologies, wind and.
- [17:37]
A
And we have.
- [17:38]
B
We have Done under previous governments. You're quite right. Do you remember David Cameron with the green tree? We have embraced the lowest hanging fruits.
- [17:47]
A
And let's give a little bit of credit here, and I know you never like to do this and no one else does either. Let's give a little credit to Boris Johnson because he was probably the greenest Prime Minister we've ever had, partly because of his father and his wife putting a lot of pressure on him on these things.
- [18:04]
B
So can you give me two tangible examples of how Boris improved the planet, other than his seven children, of course, who are all going to be eco warriors.
- [18:14]
A
Well, I think the electric car thing came under. Came in under him, didn't it?
- [18:18]
B
Right, let's talk about that because to be fair, you did scrape a win off me in the rehearsal. We. I would say that we.
- [18:25]
A
Sorry, sorry about the dog noise. John is returning from the gym. In fact, he might put in an appearance as he comes to walk up the stairs in a moment.
- [18:32]
B
We've been recording this pod for so long now that John's actually left, come back and he's returned as the iron man and he's swinging English fizzy wine under his arm.
- [18:44]
A
Big swinging dick.
- [18:46]
B
So I would say, Ian. And the political landscape proves this. We addressed the lowest hanging fruit, we got rid of the coal fired gas stations, etc, basically the sort of retro technology that clogged up the planet. To cut to the quick, politically, we've backslid recently and the Conservative government started it under Rishi Sunak because. Oh, we don't. We're going to move the. Move the marker in the sand about when we.
- [19:11]
A
Yeah, but they didn't.
- [19:12]
B
Compulsory electric vehicles. No. As we discovered courtesy of ChatGPT, they didn't because they lost the election and the Labour Party reintroduced the line in the sand, which is 2030, for phasing out petrol cars.
- [19:24]
A
Yeah, but the point here is that we were only able to do that because of Brexit, because Europe has backslid. They've gone from 2030 to 2035 and if we had still been members of the EU, we would have had to do that too because this was not a derogated power, this was not something where we could have vetoed it. We would have lost the vote with. I don't know which other countries voted against it. In fact, I can look it up if you really want me to. So you have to admit that that is one benefit that you can point to of Brexit.
- [19:56]
B
You know, a war isn't won in a single battle and it May well have been.
- [20:01]
A
Would you just admit that it's a benefit of Brexit?
- [20:04]
B
It is one battle won for Britain on the environmental front. But I would argue it is far more powerful for Britain to be part of a 28 country team.
- [20:17]
A
That's a wider argument on this issue. It was a Brexit benefit to be able to. To do this, wasn't it?
- [20:23]
B
In one battle does not make a victory.
- [20:25]
A
But you admit that it was a Brexit benefit. Yes, is the word you're looking for.
- [20:30]
B
You're a fan of Kenny and she loves Second World War analogy. You know, if you think about it, Germany lost the second World War but they won many famous battles. It is one battle that we've taken the lead versus the eu. But I would say arg, not even arguably it was far more valuable for Britain to be in there market leading the green revolution, which is what developed countries like Europe need to be doing. Do you see how I called Europe a country there?
- [20:57]
A
I did, yeah. It did not escape me. It isn't a country by the way.
- [21:01]
B
I know, but hey, people like you peddle the idea that it might become one.
- [21:06]
A
Well, there is a logic to it
- [21:07]
B
becoming one sort of macro federal state.
- [21:11]
A
Yeah. No, I mean it's inevitable. Ever since the days of Chancellor Cole and Francois Mitterron, the aim has been to create a United States of Europe. And it will happen at one day.
- [21:21]
B
I don't actually think it will because of the geographical and the wealth disparities.
- [21:25]
A
By the way, I. I have looked up on chat GPT the countries that voted against moving to 2035. It might surprise you to know that Poland was one.
- [21:36]
B
Doesn't surprise me at all. They were probably at the time governed by that very right wing party, what's it called?
- [21:42]
A
You'd have thought they would have wanted to move it back though, wouldn't you?
- [21:45]
B
No. Hang on a minute. So you're saying these are the. These are. These are the countries there was only wanted to embrace electric or they wanted to.
- [21:51]
A
No, they wanted. Poland was the only country to vote against moving the date back for mandatory electric vehicles from 2030 to 2035. Whereas you would have thought they would have been the first ones to agree to it. Bulgaria and Romania also abstained. 23 other member states voted in favor.
- [22:10]
B
Yeah, I'm confused by that.
- [22:11]
A
So that, that is a little odd, isn't it?
- [22:13]
B
Yeah. Anyway, we need to interrogate that a little further.
- [22:16]
A
We can interrogate the Romanian ambassador over lunch.
- [22:19]
B
We can indeed. On the 22nd of July, the upshot of it all is, Ian, that there has been a sea change in thinking. I think you can pin it to the first Trump administration. But not only since about 2017 did he pull out of the Paris Peace Agreement and it's become unfashionable to care about the climate. People have too easily been berated for stating what isn't a belief, but a fact. And those of us who are genuinely afraid, and actually, I don't feel so much afraid as a bit guilty, I see my daughter's little hot pink face at school and I think this isn't right. It isn't also right that so many schools are closing, that a thousand schools are closing. And I would argue the reason why so many schools are closed isn't just because Britain can't cope with the heat, but because we've not embraced what we were told was going to happen. If I listen back to that in our time, the scientists sit there 26 years ago and they say there'll be more floods, there'll be more droughts, there'll be increased and longer heat waves, the poorest countries will be hardest hit, but we won't be exempt. And it's literally like tickets. Tick, tick. And now look at our kids being sent home from school like it's Covid times because of the heat. She couldn't even do an art class, my daughter, because it was too hot in the room.
- [23:34]
A
Well, I just think it's ridiculous that schools. I mean, we've got to the point now in our country where schools closed before even a snowflake has dropped on the basis that, well, it might snow, therefore we'll close the school. That did not happen until the last few years. Years. And similarly, I see no reason why schools need to close at all if they're in Victorian buildings. Those buildings are quite well insulated against the heat, as you know from your own house, which I bet your house is cooler than mine because your house was built in the 1830s and mine was built in 1985.
- [24:08]
B
I still think you're broadcasting from a basement because you.
- [24:10]
A
Look, I'm not. I'm on the ground floor.
- [24:12]
B
You don't. Given that we've been podding for a long time now. You're not even pink.
- [24:16]
A
I have. Look, I haven't got any fans on. We have no air conditioning. I mean, this room actually isn't as hot as I thought it might be. But the sitting room, which is upstairs, as you will see on your visit on Saturday, that is roasting because it's got on one Wall, it's basically all windows. And then there's windows on two other walls too. So there we've got a fan going, an aircon going, and they go all day.
- [24:40]
B
Aircon, you see?
- [24:41]
A
No. Oh, just. No, Just one little unit.
- [24:45]
B
I know, but it ratchets up your electricity bill.
- [24:48]
A
Tell me about it.
- [24:48]
B
Can't afford it. So the truth is that there is a disparity between the way in which climate change impact not just individuals, different regions, but different countries. And we've known that. And one of the reasons why we haven't shuffled the deck to try and do all we can to stop it happening is because the richest countries know that they will be the least badly hit. And by the way, and this is a genuine question, do you think, given how much energy these are AI data centers are going to require, do you think that the tech bros are fiddling with the algorithms? Do you think one of the other reasons why climate change is so fashion or worrying about it so fashion is because they're in control of the algorithms? That's a theory that some of the teenagers are buying into.
- [25:32]
A
If you'd asked me that question a couple of years ago, I'd have probably said no. I wouldn't put it past Elon Musk. I don't think it's something that matter would particularly do. I mean, it is. I am having had two weeks off and spent quite a lot of time doom scrolling just for my entertainment. I am slightly concerned about the way these things work and that just because you happen to hover on a particular video for more than five seconds, then you've got a whole load of others similar to that. So people are getting a perverted sort of, I don't know what the word is, a perverted mix of things that come into their feeds.
- [26:13]
B
I, I think it's a mix just all one note.
- [26:16]
A
Well, it can be. I mean, it's Puerto Rico song that I absolutely love. Have you had that in your feed?
- [26:22]
B
No, Ian, because we're very different.
- [26:24]
A
No, I know. I mean I literally every third or fourth video is somebody doing a dance to this Puerto Rico song. To the extent that I said to Corey when I'm back next week, I want to do one in the studio.
- [26:37]
B
The funniest thing is Ian often sends me these. Instagram was terrified to click on them because then I know that I will be in infected with his algorithms. On the subject of which we had a question because one of the reels that you kept on sending me or the type of reel was about these English Flags, okay. That weren't allowed to be flown in Bristol. And somebody called Dino texted and he said, Dear Dr. Tessa, please can you tell Ian has he ever heard of the algorithm behind Instagram? He keeps referring to reels he's seen on Instagram as justifications. Does he not realize why he keeps seeing things that back up his opinions?
- [27:20]
A
I do understand that. I really do.
- [27:22]
B
Finally, it's taken two weeks.
- [27:24]
A
Can we just go before we go to a break? Because we're well overdue one. Can we just go back to the point of. Of heat because. And schools, because how do you think teachers in Malaysia or China or Zimbabwe or South Africa cope? Because they cope with the heat. But then again, sorry to go back to Instagram, but I now keep seeing lots of Nigerians and people from hot countries saying, oh, the heat in England is much hotter than in Nigeria. And they say it can be 45 degrees in Nigeria, but 35 degrees in England is much hotter. I. I can't see quite how they come to that conclusion, but there we
- [28:01]
B
go, some of that. And the reason why this is a worse heat wave than the one in 2022 is because of the humidity, so that you get really hot. And because there's a lot of moisture in the air, your sweat isn't removed from your skin. It's not the natural cooling device that it should be because of the humidity. I don't know if that's the only reason, but why do they manage? Several reasons. I had Romanian friends over this week. It won't surprise you to hear much more. Extreme climate, very hot summers. They were like, what's going on, guys? Why are you making such a fuss? They start their school holidays in June. Most countries on the continent which are hot, I include Romania, but not only. Also, for example, Italy go to school earlier in the day, so their school day might start 8 till 2 o'. Clock.
- [28:43]
A
Well, we should be looking at these things.
- [28:45]
B
Yes.
- [28:46]
A
Can you imagine the education unions if Bridget Phillipson stood up tomorrow and said, right, schools are going to start at 8 o' clock every day. There would be a national strike before you could say Jack Robinson.
- [28:56]
B
You know the reason why we haven't been looking at these things? Because climate change was injected as a politicized debate into the public discourse with a heft of doubt, as we referred to the Lord Bragg. He was just one example of many individuals that we revered as the fountain of all knowledge, as a seasoned and reasonable individual. Even David Attenborough, who has subsequently won so many plaudits for his work around Climate change. He didn't acknowledge climate change existed until the late 1990s. Even Margaret Thatcher, your favorite chemist, was quicker off the mark than David Attenborough was. And yet he is somebody we now look up to as being a leader fighting the climate.
- [29:38]
A
Well, if you launch a campaign, well, not even a campaign, if you just assume that people are going to buy your argument that this is happening because I say it's happening, then don't be surprised if some people say, well, no, I don't believe it. Convince me. And they say, no, I don't need to convince you because it's a fact. I can tell you it's a fact. You need to take my word for it. People don't react well to that. This is exactly a replica of the Brexit debate, where a lot of people who know, let me make my argument before you try and introduce it. People. A lot of people in the Brexit debate were quite open minded about whether they were going to vote Leave or Remain. But. And some of them, the reason they ended up voting Leave was because they didn't like being told that other people knew better. And that's what the Remain campaign was all about. It was all about catastrophizing. It was all about the fact that the economy was going to. There's going to be 5 million unemployed or whatever after Brexit, and people thought, well, solved that for a game of soldiers. You may say this, but you've given no argument for it to happen. And that was a repeat of what happened about 10 years previously on Climate Change. And I well remember this. Back in 2006, doing a program on climate change on an Internet TV station I was working on and we tried to persuade Greenpeace to come on as part of the debate and they refused to because they said, well, no, the argument's won. And I kept saying, no, no, it isn't. There are lots of people who don't buy into this. And so you need to come on and explain to our viewers why the. What. What the point of your argument is. But they still refuse to, and, and they still have that attitude. I'm afraid a lot of people on that side. The moment you start to express any degree of slight skepticism about any aspect of this, they roll their eyes as if you're a fool.
- [31:27]
B
I would be the first to say that climate change does not suit democracy, because actually there's some hard yards we've got to walk and it feels unpalatable and it feels unpopular politically. Look at the people that Burnham is Surrounding himself beside. Look at the fear mongering about the possible appointment of Ed Miliband in number heaven. Oh my goodness. Apparently Britain would go into meltdown. All the bonds wouldn't ruin, the gold would just dissolve in despair. I mean, because this is one of the few men who has consistently said no, we need to re boot rewire our economy and our energy supplies.
- [32:07]
A
And I don't disagree with that. But you can't do it all at once. And the problem, the problem that he's got and the reason why people on the right of the politics react so viscerally to him is because they can see that he's approached it like a bull in a china shop. He's trying to do it all at once. And you have to. Sometimes in politics you have to do slowly, slowly catchy monkey and what he's done. And ordinary people can see this too because we all know that our energy bills have rocketed up over the last five or six years. Now that's in part due to the war in Ukraine, it's in part due to the war in Iran. Absolutely not denying that at all. But it's also in part due to the green levies that have been put on both by the conservatives and Labor. And I think we are at the point where consumers are starting to rebel against this because they look across the channel and they look at France and look at the energy prices in France which is vaguely similar economy to ours and they say, well why are they paying 30% less than we are?
- [33:08]
B
Now there's quite a lot of research that some of it's about us paying for the infrastructure in our bills and the way in which costs are divvied up nationally in other European countries.
- [33:17]
A
But people say, people don't really care about the explanation. They just see that our, our energy is the most expensive in the whole of Europe, apart from Malta, I hear that. And therefore they put two and two together and they think, well if our energy is expensive and labor talk about re industrializing the north, well, how they're going to do attract businesses into the north, manufacturing businesses, heavy industry businesses if their energy costs are so high it doesn't compute. And that's, that's Ed Miliband's problem.
- [33:50]
B
But I would suggest that if you gave Ed Miliband the chancellery, he could look at it in a macro way, a bit like a Chinese autocrat and he could actually.
- [34:04]
A
That's meant to convince me, is it?
- [34:06]
B
No, no, but so that the maths match the energy problems because at the Moment, you've got different thinking happening with the Energy Ministry and you've got a Chancellor who's bolted in to a rigid old school way of thinking. Obviously, we can't just eat tofu and hope for the best. We need to entirely rewire the way in which we acquire and pay for our energy. But the best. Best bit about this debate, Izzy. And you've got through this new pod without mentioning why was it that grapes grew New Yorkshire in the 1300s. And I feel that, my friends, is progress.
- [34:41]
A
Well, on that note, I mean, I could go down that road if you want me to, but I think. I think. Melvin, I think we've gone for 20 minutes or so without hearing from our sponsors.
- [34:54]
B
Foreign. Let's do a few questions. Sprinkle them in through your train of thought concerning your two favorite political women, Bridget Phillipson and Kemi Badenoch.
- [35:08]
A
How do you work that out?
- [35:09]
B
Onto that later. First, the question from Jonathan. Question for the pod given Badenoch compared Bridget Phillipson to the Gestapo, does A, Badenot learn her manners and spend less time online? B. Tess, how close are Labour's educational policies to that of 1930s Germany? C, Ian, next time you meet your mate, C, he's on the same track as me. I'm presuming he's talking about Kenny here. Introduce her to the theory of Godwin's Law. And D, it worries me. I don't think Labour have gone far enough on their attack on private schools. What does that make me worse than a Nazi?
- [35:50]
A
That makes you. That makes you Himmler. Okay, right, let's. Let's start from the basics here. I don't believe that it's a good thing for any politician to invoke Godwin's Law, I. E. Mentioning Hitler or the Third Reich. I. I don't think it helps public discourse. So from that perspective, I. I can't actually, I didn't notice that she did that. If. If she. If he's referring to the exchange in PMQs, I must admit I didn't notice that.
- [36:19]
B
You know, the, the PMQS where she accused Bridget Phillipson of being a spiteful class warrior apparently came off the back of a previous exchange, which I don't think was public, where she accused her of being Gestapo because of this VAT on private.
- [36:38]
A
Right, okay, well, let's stick to what happened in PMQs. Where can you. Badenox. I mean, she had, in a sense, she had quite a tricky task this week because she didn't go for the jugular with Keir Starmer. In fact, she was quite sympathetic to him in some ways. But she did go for Bridget Phillipson, she did go for Rachel Reeves and she called Bridget Phillipson a spiteful class warrior for imposing VAT on private schools. Now, I thought, that's quite a good phrase. And then she went for Andy Burnham and called him two eyelashes and a black T shirt, which I thought was quite good. And then did you see that video that Andy Burnham did in response to it? I thought, this is quite funny. I wonder whether he would do this if he was Prime Minister. I hope he does. In some ways, he just got his camera up to do, like, effectively a video selfie. And he. And he goes. He looks down, goes, it's dark blue, actually. And I just thought that was quite good timing there was excellent. So she was in very aggressive form in that PMQs. But, I mean, she is the Leader of the Opposition. That's kind of what leaders of the Opposition do when they've got an open goal, they're going to try and score one. And Rachel Reeves, I mean, she had to go at her. And Rachel Reeves did look a little bit upset by it, I have to say. And I think what riled Kemi Bate in order to do this was a succession of interventions from labor mps behind, basically saying, oh, we've done brilliantly in the government so far. Then they would list a list of achievements. And Keir Starmer did that as well. Then she quite understandably said, well, hang on a minute, if things are going so well, why have you lot all got rid of. Voted to get rid of him? And of course, they then sort of started even more of a ruckus that riled her up even more. So it was quite an aggressive thing. But the. The way that. The reason this has become a story is because afterwards, Liz Kendall and Bridget Phillipson confronted Cami in the corridor behind the Speaker's chair and said, what. What are you doing this for? Why are you speaking like this? And Kemi said, well, I. I have no regrets about saying what I did because I do regard you as a spiteful class warrior, because you could have no other reason for putting VAT on private schools. You want to destroy them. So I'm not going to resolve from that. But the speaker, obviously, he intervened as well. Although I. Thinking back when it happened, I couldn't quite understand why he had intervened because he was saying, we must need to watch our language. What I think he was actually referring to was the fact that she said, like, there's 400 people have stabbed Keir Starmer with a knife in his back. And I think that was what he was referring to.
- [39:15]
B
And also there was some Dad's army reference.
- [39:18]
A
They don't like it.
- [39:20]
B
That's right.
- [39:21]
A
Yeah.
- [39:21]
B
And his point, I thought more broadly, was a salient one, which is actually the coarsening of discourse.
- [39:27]
A
No, that's right. That. That is right.
- [39:29]
B
Does politicians no favors.
- [39:30]
A
I. I don't think they don't like it up them. It's. It's the worst thing a politician could say because, I mean, you can see from the reaction of all the labor mps that she. She accurately described that in that phrase. Not sure how many people under the age of 60 would have actually understood it, but there we are.
- [39:46]
B
Our attack of Rachel Reeves was the same one that I leveled at Rachel Reeves on the Jeremy vine show, actually, and I thought it was a pertinent one. And then I got trolling from my progressive left saying, God, can't you just get in behind Andy Burnham? Tessa. I'm like, not tribal, guys. And I found it very distasteful, that great big selfie that all the MPs did. I know. It's apparently the tradition when win for a by election. No, it isn't very rare.
- [40:11]
A
It isn't. It's not.
- [40:12]
B
The Labour Party have made it one, by all accounts.
- [40:15]
A
Well, I've never. No, they haven't. I've never seen that happen before.
- [40:19]
B
That's what I was told live on television.
- [40:22]
A
Absolutely not.
- [40:23]
B
Well, they've had so few by election wins, it'd be forgiven for forgetting if it was one of their traditions. Anyway. But for those of you who missed the picture and how could you have done. Because loads of MPs put it on their Instagrams and their socials. It was Andy Burnham, by the way, deliberately pulling forward. It felt like all these women to the front of the picture. Is that because he's yet another Labour leader?
- [40:40]
A
Burnham's babes.
- [40:42]
B
Yeah. And I actually somehow don't know how I did this, because I actually been getting on really well with her and she was helping me with my Romanian campaign. But I sort of had a minor contretemps with Stella Creasy, because I then pinned it to my Insta or something and I said, oh, pick me, pick me. Because it literally looked at Schoolyard. Oh, Andy, Andy, we know. We want to be in your team. Please, Andy. And it was so distasteful because just hours earlier, Keir Starmer had been greeting, as they say in Scotland, crying in outside number 10. And it just, I felt, was deeply Inappropriate.
- [41:13]
A
And I think for Rachel Reeves, I mean, she didn't even appear in Downing street when Keir Starmer was doing a speech. And then she appears at the front in that photo. You think, really? Is that really.
- [41:26]
B
I felt uncomfortable about it. And then today she's even more desperate, saying, oh, yeah, no, we're talking about what qualities a Chancellor needs. Like, she's already buried her own grave. She just does, you know, hold fire a bit.
- [41:37]
A
It was Rachel Reeves, I think, and this may come back to horn me. I don't think she stands a cat in hell's chance of staying in that job. I'd be very surprised if she stayed in the. In the Cabinet, to be honest. And it is very interesting. We talked about this in the last episode, about who Burner might have in his Cabinet in different positions. And that is. It's now typical of the way the Westminster media is operating. That is. That is the main subject of discussion. It's not what does Andy Burnham believe in or anything, which ought to be the major subject of discussion, because none of us really know. And that's not an anti Burnham thing to say. I think most people would agree with that. He's apparently going to make a big speech next week. He can't cover everything in one speech, but he's got to give us some idea of the direction of travel, what is going to change under him and what isn't. Does he regard the Labour manifesto as some sort of sacrilegious text, or is he going to introduce quite a lot of new initiatives?
- [42:35]
B
Ian, your whole body language has relaxed now. You've got into the political thicket.
- [42:40]
A
Yeah, because I'm talking about something I know about.
- [42:42]
B
Yeah, I could tell. Climate makes you feel deeply uncomfortable and it's not the lack of hair conditioning in your office.
- [42:48]
A
No, it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, it just bores me rigid.
- [42:51]
B
I know. I just want to flag, though, that I care deeply about the environment. And it's interesting that we've done more than a year of pods and we very rarely talk about the environment. And I just want to go back to. That's one of the reasons why we don't have infrastructure in place in our hospitals and schools, because it's been nudged off the agenda because establishment not only, but mainly men, don't like talking about it. Oh, could I read a little message off the back of that man Point. I don't know who sent this because I didn't write down his name. He says, every week, Tessa, you go in to bat for Decency and fairness and every week you're accused of being mean. Stop having a go at men, stop bang on about Brexit. Nigel Farage is good company. I would like to add to that. Like talking about the environment, he ends his message. God help us.
- [43:36]
A
Well, God help us if a lot of our listeners reflect those views. Although we won't talk about this now, we can do it in a future episode. But the sheen is starting to come off Nigel Farage a bit, isn't it? You can just sort of almost sense it. You can't pull point to anything tangible. In a way, I suppose the by election you could, but there's just, I think there's something going on. They've come down to 22% I think in the last poll, although three points ahead, the lowest they've ever been. And you have the Conservatives and Labour now above 20%, which hasn't happened for quite a long time.
- [44:08]
B
You think it's a sort of perfect storm of things. The Henry Novak fallout and the tone he took around that. I think the more moderate end of reform, ambivalent Tory vote, didn't approve of the way that he not only looked like he was dog whistling people across the line of violence, but then refused to pull them back or apologize or in any way shift his stance. And I think people don't like that. They don't like the degree of inflexibility.
- [44:41]
A
I think also all successful politicians, they manage to appeal to their base, but they also manage to appeal to people outside their base. And Nigel Farage is very good at appealing to his base, but I think he's lost the art of. And it's interesting, he did that sort of rather soft soap interview, kind of desert islanders thing with Nick Ferrari and he's done one or two of those recently where he's trying to soften his image and I think he does need to do that a little bit. But this, this 5 million thing is still haunting him. I saw an interview he did with BBC Breakfast, I think the other day, and he didn't do badly in it, but he was clearly irritated by the fact that the interviewer took, I mean, basically went on at him, on at him, honored him for probably seven or eight minutes. And he, in the end he said, you, you can talk about this as much as you like. I'm not going there anymore, I'm thinking. I'm not sure that's a good look.
- [45:32]
B
Yeah, it's not a great look and it looks too defensive and there was a flash of temper and that's Never. Good. Forgive me. In. In a man in a live studio when being interviewed by a woman, because the way it was clipped, you know, you watched the full seven minutes. I. My algorithm just served it up in a left wing package. So I just got. Nigel Farah is losing his temper with this little harmless looking woman who clearly needling him.
- [45:58]
A
She did quite. No, she did quite well, though. She did it very polite, slightly. He couldn't really have a go at her for the way it was asked. And I thought, well, no, actually good on her. Anyway, look, let's have a brief word about James Pernell and then we'll finish with some questions after another break. James Purnell, you said earlier off air that you didn't really know much about him. He was. He was elected at the same time as Andy Burnham to the House of Commons. He. They shared an office together. We got Blair and Brown vibes coming here, I think, and they're obviously very good friends. Their constituencies were almost next door to each other. And James Pinell rose quicker than Andy Burnham did initially and he ended up being Culture Secretary. And then in 2009, after the disastrous European election results for labor, he quit on the night of the European elections. I remember being on air at the moment. He quit it, but nobody followed him, or if only a few people did. And he then left parliament in 2010 and ended up as some big wig in the BBC, sort of director of strategy or something. And he now runs Flint Global, which is a big lobbying company which Jackie used to be a consultant to. So if it all goes. If Andy Burnham doesn't give Jackie a job, she can get it. She can take over from Chainsaw James Pinella run that. So that's his background. He's a arch Blairite, which is what?
- [47:29]
B
The left, the hard left. I don't mean mainstream media left. I mean, you know, that. Is it Nova Media, whatever the Navarro are all. Yeah. Are all saying, oh, he's a lobbyist for the Israeli government, etc, that's the kind of line that's being fed. And also he's on the sort of spin side of Blairism. And remember the. The hard left can't stand Blair. They seem arguably as more of an enemy than a Farage or a Badenov.
- [47:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's always been the weakness of the left. They go after their own people who would self identify as being on the left. And the right are becoming like that, going off, going after people like me who self identifies on the right and yet they think I'm some drippy Liberal Democrat or something. So you've got this on the extremes on both sides. I think James Pinell is a very capable guy, actually. I, I, I think it's unfortunate that the, that appointment has been leaked, because it does, it just feeds into this whole thing of presumption. Now, I get that if you, if, if in 17 days or 20 days or whatever it is that you think you're about to form a government, you've got to get your ducks in a row. But to those people who don't particularly like the way that Andy Burnham's done this, it sort of adds grist to their mill, doesn't it?
- [48:41]
B
Vision of cronyism. And I, and it's also, I go back to the schoolyard analogy, which is what I really took exception to, as I tried to explain to Stella, it's just the more repugnant side of politics where they look like they're climbing over the slippery pool. The fallout of political negligence is a school that isn't insulated or a hospital where babies are dying. But meanwhile we turn around and we just look at the chaos and these individuals all sort of grasping like sort of hands in a mob, trying to find their way, blinking out of the, the darkness of the Starmer era into the bright light from the King of the north, who trundled down like Henry VII to take over London and the south. But will he delegate some powers further north? Will he set up, presumably at vast expense and number 10 in the north? I do hope not. Not because we'll pay for that.
- [49:34]
A
Well, that would be performative, wouldn't it? Because although having said that, you've got the treasury having. I think they've got offices based in Darlington and Glasgow. I think the Foreign Office have outposts somewhat somewhere else other than London. So it's not unusual for government departments to have. But I mean, Prime Minister's office. I don't think so. I agree with you, but I know if I go on the radio next week and say I think it's outrageous that he wants to spend like three months, million or something creating an office of the Prime Minister in Manchester, I, I know exactly what the reaction will be, but I, I agree with you that that would be utterly ridiculous.
- [50:10]
B
We're going to do questions now because I suddenly looked at the time, I've got the school gate pending because, you know, we can't overrun schools are very
- [50:17]
A
high and children need to. What time?
- [50:18]
B
You've got to be there in the next few minutes. So a couple of quick quezes, you go for one Because I've read out quite well. No, I haven't.
- [50:26]
A
I haven't got mine on screen yet, so you go first.
- [50:28]
B
Is one free and I don't know who it's from? Here we are once more. They're all very negative because they come off my Instagram algorithm, I think, Ian. That's why. Once more, Ian plays willful ignorance. Yes. No, it's more on lamp posts. This never stopped, by the way. I've had so much about you banging on about lampposts. Yes. No one has ever banned anyone for putting flags on lamp posts, but we've never had people putting up thousands of flags to protest and intimidate people of color. Oh, Ian, stop clutching your pearls. In moral.
- [51:01]
A
I don't think it's me that's clutching my pearls. I think it's whoever you are. Anyway, John Myhill on Twitter says, tessa's husband, title of podcast. How the hell does he do it? I think he was so disloyal, he'd probably agree with that.
- [51:18]
B
Do you want to know that I've done a lot of horse trading? Because I could tell that Uncle Ian and husband John wanted me to arrive with my Romanian partner just so I could look like part of conventional, multicultural England. And also, I thought it would be preferable to share the journey to Tunbridge Wells, the wilderness that is to visit Ian at home with my beloved spouse. So I started laying the groundwork, and I'm building to a crescendo. But as soon as I thought, he'd basically said no. And Tati, my agent, said, dan's never going to go, Tess. I just tell him, bite the bullet. Tell Ian he's not going to come. So I put on the WhatsApp group. Really sorry, it looks like I can't take responsibility for my husband's bad manners, but he's not coming. And I went downstairs and I said to Dan, I told Ian, you're not coming, and I just want you to know that if it had been an equivalent, the tables had been turned, I would have turned up to your work do, and I am really hurt. And he took his headphones off, which is very rare in our marriage, and he went, what are you talking about? I never said I wouldn't come. And I went, does that mean you are coming to the barbecue at Priory Farm in Tunbridge?
- [52:27]
A
Don't give my address away.
- [52:29]
B
Oh, cut that Corey and join. And it's a violin. And. And he said, yes, I am coming. And that's how contrary he is. Contrary he is. Because I served him and no.
- [52:41]
A
Well, he's learned. He's learned at your feet then, hasn't he?
- [52:45]
B
Anyway, it's gonna be married.
- [52:47]
A
Okay? Your friend Brian Sage has another email.
- [52:51]
B
Oh, not Brian again.
- [52:52]
A
Kemi was magnificent at PMQs. Amazing that Starmer had to read from his briefing notes to provide congratulatory, congratulatory comments on Philipson and Reeves, the not so memorable duo. And of course a delicious jibe at the loyalty of Miliband. Well, actually that was quite good in a leadership bid. Even stabbed his brother in the back. Did you see that bit? I know she made a job at Miliband basically saying. And of course he's quite used to basically betraying those clothes to him.
- [53:25]
B
Anyway, I was busy looking for the next question and I did see it and I did think it was quite clever and personally because David was the better looking, more polished version of Ed Miliband and therefore I place Ed Miliband in the direct firing line of being somehow weirdly irresistible, responsibly responsible for Brexit. I've never forgiven him for doing what a Persian sat trap would have done and yeah, knife his brother. So I did hear it and see it and I approved of that.
- [53:48]
A
Anyway, Brian does have a question. How is it that a resigned Prime Minister may answer on behalf of the government from which he's resigned? Well, you've misunderstood that, Brian, because he hasn't resigned as Prime Minister. He's resigned as leader of the Labour Labour Party and he will resign as Prime Minister when the new labor leader has been officially picked. So that will presumably be on July 17th. P s. If Ian laughed at every one of Doctor. The Doctor's mispronunciations. The pod would be. Would sound like that laughing policeman record.
- [54:22]
B
It's just bitchy. Thanks, Brian. Cut that bit, Corey.
- [54:24]
A
Finally you know what you can do? You can insert the laughing policeman at that point.
- [54:29]
B
This is from Leighton. He did send me a really long thing on your football team, but I'm not reading that one out. He then adds to the football narrative though, talking about domestic violence. He says you could mention to Ian that the incident rate goes up when England win as well as when they lose, though by not as much. And this man is a mathematician so he sent me a sort of statistical Euro 2024 sheet on male violence. He then adds, implication would be that we shouldn't have any international football tournaments because men be women whether they win or lose. But then he adds, better solution would be no domestic violence, of course.
- [55:13]
A
Well, that would be a big solution Wouldn't it? But unfortunately, human beings don't react in the way that they should do do all the time. And let's also remember that domestic violence is female or male as well as male and female. It is. It is. A quarter of all incidents are female or male. And it happens in gay. It happens in gay relationships too.
- [55:34]
B
I'm. Which. What? But if you're gay, it can't be female or male.
- [55:38]
A
No, it'll be female or female or male or male. There's a lot of it about accidentally
- [55:44]
B
smiled then when you were talking about violence against women and I realized that I was like that female reform MP Sarah Ponchin. Do you remember who she's accused? No.
- [55:53]
A
But you see, she was actually. She was actually trying to do a good thing by doing that little video pointing out the fact that whenever there is an international football match that domestic violence increases, but at a less rate when England wins. So she sort of said, I hope England win. And. And yet she was absolutely traduced for it just because she represents reform, which I thought was very unfair.
- [56:15]
B
And also she has a weird permanent resting smug face which tips up into a smile.
- [56:21]
A
Just finally, because I know you've got to go. This is from my sixth cousin Fiona, who says I've been recommending where politics meets history in my world to my worldlier pupils who wanted a podcast with more disagreement and debate than the rest is polite politics. It helps that Tessa's. What's that? Strath. Strathalion.
- [56:47]
B
Note to the pod. I just corrected the way Ian says
- [56:50]
A
something she seen notes because I haven't got my glasses on. She seems to be a bit of a role model for the older gals. Well, I think you went to speak of that school, didn't you, recently?
- [57:00]
B
Yeah, I did. Does your sixth cousin teach at Strathallon?
- [57:04]
A
Yes, she's head of history, I think. And I'm actually going to do on the. My final night in Edinburgh in August. I'm going. Her husband organizes a speaking thing in the town of Dollar. So I'm going to go and do a little talk at Dollar
- [57:21]
B
Fallon's. A really interesting case of how only the strongest survive because there's a sort of Charles Darwinism happening at the moment among private schools because there's a slump in pupil numbers and also there's this taxation from the spiteful class warrior. And so a lot of them are closing, but Strath has just somehow supercharged and it's cannibalized loads of the other ones. It's kind of consumed Kilgrast and the nearest girls school because hands up here, I went to a state school till I was 15 and then I went to Strathallon, which is a big. Oh, you actually went there day school now? Yeah, I went there.
- [57:53]
A
All right. I didn't know that. All right.
- [57:54]
B
Went there for two years and finally I'm going to Ian's, in case you haven't gathered. With my husband. In case you haven't gathered this Saturday when we're going to be drinking English, very expensive insert here. Wine, in case you haven't gathered. And the reason is because, and only the Murdoch press could find it as a celebration. Climate change and a heat wave means that we now grow better fizzy wine than the Champagne region of France. And apparently the now in England, in
- [58:25]
A
England's green and pleasant land. Now I've got to go and mow the grass. I don't actually, I don't think I'm going to because I'm not sure the mower is fixed because it's about 2ft tall at the moment. But we'll see if that is done before your triumphant arrival. You're not veggies or anything, are you?
- [58:42]
B
Oh, God, no. I can eat any sort of meat. I'm going to roll in your lawn like Theresa May, Lady Shatter his lover. Perhaps I'll convert. John.
- [58:51]
A
It's not Chatterley, it's Chatterley.
- [58:54]
B
Oh, off you shittily.
- [58:56]
A
Bye. Where Politics meets history@global.com should you wish to send us a question for the next episode. And then of course, you are on your cruise next week, aren't you?
- [59:07]
B
We're recording on Sunday so we can have a post barbecue debrief. Go on, Fun one. You can drop in as you owe me one for record not recording this pod. You owe me one forever on this.
- [59:16]
A
And don't forget, pre order your copy of Where Politics Not My Politics Meets History of have I Said Too much? Out on the 15th of July I. I'm apparently going to be a major feature interview in the Guardian. Can you believe? Anyway, on that note, goodbye. This has been a global production.