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- [00:03]
A
This is a global production. Do you think that the City of London and the financial markets have any confidence in Ed Miliband?
- [00:10]
B
Well, let's have a look. Interestingly given he's been one of the favourites for Chancellor and Burnham arrived as the King of the north with Ed Miliband firmly in his pocket. I was interested. The bond market etc didn't seem too rattled.
- [00:23]
A
Well, we will see. But if he does do this, I'm not convinced he will do it, but in a couple of years time. Let's come back to this episode of the podcast and see who was right. Can I just make clear, I have pressed record Tessa, because I know you got such vicarious pleasure out of me making a mistake last week, in fact, so. So vicarious was your pleasure. I thought I better bring Corey to tell him what had happened. So I phoned him about 20 minutes after the pod had finished, but you had already got in and was crowing to him like. I mean, it's like the best thing ever happened to you.
- [01:00]
B
What's called money in the bank, Ian. Money in the bank. Now, are you a bit of a sleepy head today? I think you might be.
- [01:08]
A
I am a little bit because I had a bit of an exhausting day yesterday and I didn't actually get out of bed until midday today. And we're recording this, we should say on Sunday afternoon because you're off cruising.
- [01:21]
B
I'm off cruising. And it's very generous of you and one would could say that it's perhaps compensation for the error last week regarding the record button. He is kindly allowing us to record this on a Sunday ahead of the big Andy Burnham dump tomorrow, the economic dump. You were so long in bed, you missed the repeat performance of yet again Piers Morgan on Kloensberg saying we need a general election. I thought that is the last thing the country needs, actually. But of course I too had experienced the fog of war because last night I was in the the garden of England with none other than he will be one day Sir Ian Dale and your family.
- [02:05]
A
No, I think I would turn down a knighthood. I've never wanted to be called Sir Ian. I think it's a peerage or nothing.
- [02:10]
B
Oh, you're arrogant.
- [02:12]
A
But before we. Before we get on to your evening, Piers Morgan. He's always on Koonsberg. It's really weird, isn't it? But this whole thing about a general election, I had dismissed that as just fantasy talk because there's no constitutional reason to have a general election and people can whinge and moan all they like about. Oh, well, it's just not right to change a Prime Minister and not have an election. Well, it is. We're in a parliamentary democracy. But I'm. I'm almost coming to the conclusion that it is something that Andy Burnham might consider, because he will be constrained a little bit by the fact that it's not his manifesto. But, I mean, how you would get that past 400 Labour MPs, not a single one of whom would want an election, I do not know.
- [02:54]
B
Interestingly, Piers Morgan's argument was this would suit Burton, because reform and Restore are sort of cannibalizing each other. They're devouring each other. We know that Nigel Farage is a particularly bad. Well, this is. They know. This was actually Lord Morgan. He was saying, they've had a particularly bad run of it. People aren't buying Nigel Farage's different excuses. There seems to be one a week as to what that £5 million was really all about. And he said that while Kemi Badenoch is improving in popularity in the Conservative Party, her party is far behind her. So, arguably, this could be an optimum moment for Andy Burnham, not just to legitimize his kingship, which of course it's being called, but also to extend his reign by five years.
- [03:44]
A
Well, these are all the same arguments that were had when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair and he funked a decision on an election and forever lived to regret that. And I do think he probably would have won if he had called an election three months after he took over, because by that point, he was walking on water. Even I was thinking, oh, my God, I've really underestimated Gordon Brown. But as soon as he wimped out on having an election, everything went to pieces. Now, I. I think it's. I. I still think, on balance, Burnham won't do it, but that will be the whole of the summer speculation, because he wouldn't call an election on day one or even day 10. He would have to call it probably sometime in September. So that will be the. That will be the story of the summer.
- [04:28]
B
We are going to have repeat politics because it was called the Brown bounce. So if Burnham comes in and everyone loves them over the summer, if England do quite well in the World cup, not too many more heat waves, but a nice bit of English sun, sunshine and bits of elsewhere in Britain, you're going to have the Burnham bounce. And then yet more speculation about general election. None of which, by the way, is good for the markets. Ian. It's not ideal for business well, bear
- [04:51]
A
in mind that if, if he does become Prime Minister, there is no challenge from Al Khan's, who I have to say, I, I increasingly view as a preposterous character. I mean, I just think he's completely nuts. Assuming that he doesn't challenge him and he does and he wins the leadership on the 7th, Friday the 17th of July, he then takes over on the Monday because apparently you can't take over on the same day and you can't take over at a weekend. I don't know who dictates these things. So it would be Monday 20th July, the day after the World Cup Final. Now, the way England are playing, I'm not sure we're going to make it to the World Cup Final, but if we did, Starmer will still be Prime Minister then. So he will go, presumably as Prime Minister. But I bet Burnham wangles his way onto the plane.
- [05:40]
B
Of course he will. Oh, they could hold hands. Bill and Ben, the Labour flower pot men. It's interesting because there has been speculation as to why it's taking this long. We know Starmer's going, we know Burnham's coming in. There's this sort of dead time, treading water. And when I was looking and did a bit of research online, and I'm sure you'll know this, that Thatcher's tearful farewell. Within a week, Major was the Prime Minister. The removal van had been and gone. If you think of Rishi replacing Trust, that was very quick. If you go further back in time, the best one, I think was when Eden resigned and Macmillan had no clue. That morning he'd spent reading Pride and Prejudice, which he said was very soothing. And later that day he was the Prime Minister. You don't need to have basically four weeks for Burnham to scratch his ass and work out what color his T shirt is.
- [06:32]
A
Well, you kind of do and I'll come to that in a second. But I think the, the best bit from the Harold Macmillan takeover was when in those days leaders of the Conservative Party emerged. So you'd have a senior party figure essentially taking soundings from, from the Cabinet as to who they thought ought to take over. And Lord Salisbury was the senior party figure that did this, essentially, presumably on behalf of the Queen, who was getting advice. And his nickname was Bobberti. I can't remember why it was Bobberti, but that's what it was. So each Cabinet member would go and see him and Bobberti had a speech impediment and he couldn't pronounce his R's So he would say to each of them, so is it WAB or Howell? Because it was R.A. butler who's known as Rab or Harold. And I just think that that that's quite quaint. And it turned out because Ari Butler was the favorite. But as is usual in. In these things, Howard Macmillan was everybody's second favorite, just as Alec Douglas Hume was everybody's second favorite when Harold Macmillan resigned. The reason that that can't happen this time is purely because of Labour Party rules and the timetable set out by Keir Starmer, who decided that the. That nominations would close on the 17th of July. And therefore, if there are no nominations, that's. That's when Andy Burden takes over. Now, I don't see why. I mean, surely people could have worked out before then if they wanted to stand. But that was them's the rules, as they say.
- [08:07]
B
I think that stage timetable was put on Starmer that was requested because we know the Burnham team want time to sort their act out. And we're going to come on to whether Ed Miliband should be Chancellor because that ties nicely into our little bit of argy bargy when we got very hot and bothered during the heat wave on climate change. I've done something of a deep dive and there's a lot of commentary, a lot of traction and a few haters, Ian. Some in my camp, but most of them in your camp, I'm so pleased to say.
- [08:38]
A
Well, enough about my camp, by the way. You know, we've got the, the. The barbecue WhatsApp group that I used to communicate with everyone. Did you see the pictures that people put on last night? I noticed you haven't put any. Or did you?
- [08:49]
B
Yeah, they were all mine, most of the lead.
- [08:53]
A
What about that one where I've got my arms folded in front of me? I look, well, hench.
- [08:58]
B
Well, funnily enough, other people have been in contact to say, because I did do a little photo dump on Instagram that I noticed. You haven't collaborated.
- [09:05]
A
I haven't seen it.
- [09:06]
B
But people. People have asked whether we're in a relationship. Clearly not everyone. Ian, realizes you are a great big gay man.
- [09:17]
A
Yeah, I think that's. I mean, were. Were I not a massive gayer? Well. And were you not married? I mean, who knows? I mean, that's what. That's. That people always used to think that Jackie and I were in a relationship as well, because we were quite flirtatious.
- [09:30]
B
I don't flirt with my old women, my veterans. I mean, flirtation is a form of communication. It's a form of endorsement. It's a form of approximation, physical and emotional. I don't think that it has to mean you want to have penetrative sex together.
- [09:45]
A
Did we have to go there?
- [09:47]
B
Yeah, because you like smart and I just gave it to you. Well, I was really interested by. Because people have been longing for a debrief. So we're coming to Ed Miliband. We're also going to come to the history of the Commandos because they're spending half a billion. Since you've been asleep, Ian, we spent half a billion quid on Commandos to take the fight to the high north. Collaborating with Norway once again. It's like going back in time. But anyway, more on that in a bit. Just quickly on Ian, not Garden of England, but Secret Garden. Okay, I got past the rot iron gates, the remote control cars, and in I walked with a very reluctant Dan. We had been hot under the collar on the motorway for quite some time.
- [10:18]
A
Can I just point out, we don't have wrought iron gates.
- [10:22]
B
People don't need to know that. Let me paint the picture. Okay, in we came. First of all, I immediately cried in the kitchen in front of your one face famous guests, a real own goal. Dan and I had a proper domestic spat to the point that Sian Williams, Dr. Sian Williams these days, said, do you want to go and chat it through with your husband? And I went, no, I want a divorce, and walked into the patio. Things that marginally improved in my relationship when I left, which is always a sign of a good party.
- [10:50]
A
And would you like to explain the incident with the brooch, the necklace? Yes.
- [10:55]
B
So, Corey, our lovely producer, who we're all devoted to, has a divine, highly accomplished, very attractive, modest, well behaved fiance who arrived looking sort of cool, literally and physically. And I admired the necklace she was wearing. And I went, God, darling, you've got a fake as well. I said, I mean, on what planet
- [11:22]
A
does a normal person accuse somebody of having fake jewelry?
- [11:26]
B
And she held hers between her fingers and she went, it's real. What I should have done is held mine between my fingers and gone. Mine's bigger.
- [11:36]
A
But instead, instead, and wait for this, ladies and gentlemen, instead, what did you do?
- [11:43]
B
I begged your very accommodating and loving husband to give me the Internet code because you live in a hole, so that I could look up and see how much her necklace was worth.
- [11:58]
A
I mean, what. What possesses you to say things like that?
- [12:03]
B
No, she went home considerably richer in her head than she arrived. And on top of which I introduced a party game.
- [12:11]
A
I don't think that really worked.
- [12:13]
B
It didn't, but it was still a nice moment of effort. And, you know, there's something collaborative about communal effort in a room.
- [12:20]
A
I mean, the one thing that I was astonished at that is that John took part in it because he hates games of any description. Rem, when we first met, we ended up playing Trivial Pursuit with some friends. And I. I like to win at Trivial Pursuit, as you might imagine. I'm sure you do, too, but he. He couldn't be having. He could not be having my competitive spirit. When we first met, we played squash a couple of times, but he just wanted to, like, hit the ball back and forward. And I'm thinking, no, no, we're gonna have a proper game. I'm gonna whip your ass. And we've never, ever played any sport against each other since.
- [12:53]
B
It's quite a gentle game. And I would like to say the only reason it didn't work is because those people who were the protagonists through, you know, a random selection of cards were utterly fucking useless at executing their roles. I see you, Corey. Worst murderer in the world. He doesn't even know how to wink. Very funny. But finally, before we move on to more important matters, or some would say, what is more important than whether Ian's husband likes me? But does John like me? Because I really liked him.
- [13:23]
A
He did like you, actually. My nose is not growing longer as I say that, because I wondered whether he. I'll be totally honest. I mean, you're not his sort of character because he. He likes sort of quiet, shy people, and you are kind of everything that normally he doesn't like. But he really did like you, because that. That was actually the first thing I said to him when you. When you're all gone. I said to him, right, Tess is very keen that you like her. Do you? Yeah, I do. Yeah. She's completely bonkers. But I really like her.
- [13:56]
B
Yeah, I like just. And funny enough, this is really now getting too boring, this incest match. But we drove back with one of your other producers, Kalyn, who kept saying how much he liked. We're also likable. He liked John. So there you are. You can cut all this, by the way, Corey, we'll leave you to see
- [14:13]
A
the most inappropriate present, which I can't. I can't even reveal what it was, even on this podcast.
- [14:19]
B
I think it's probably better you didn't. Finally, for those who want an insight into Ian's personality, because I think that's one of your judgments as to what Stops being collegiate and becomes friendship is crossing the threshold of the other. And I allowed you into my. Not nether regions, but my London abode.
- [14:39]
A
No, you allowed me into your upper regions, if you remember.
- [14:42]
B
Indeed. Yeah. We went all the way to the attic. Some others do have them.
- [14:46]
A
That's not a euphemism.
- [14:48]
B
And I. So I visited your Kent garden and what I discovered about you, I saw about you is actually you're a supporter really, aren't you? There's a huge number of young people you'd gathered around you and you, you love to support and bring on talent and you engage with enthusiasm and energy. And I love the fact that you only had aforementioned one famous person. You know, there's some people who like, do, you know, only have sort of people who are known in their inn circle. And I love the fact that much more you're about sort of. Well, just I, I don't think the next generation.
- [15:27]
A
I don't mix very much with famous people. I know quite a lot of famous people, but I don't really mix with them and I have to really like somebody to have a proper friendship with them. And I mean, you know what I mean, you know, a lot of famous people too, and that they are friends in inverted commas, but they're not real friends. They're not the sort of people you have around your house or you go around to their house. They're people that you meet through work. And I mean, you're right. I mean, one of the things I say at the end of my book, coming out on the 15th of July, is that I. I actually get a real thrill out of. See, the trouble is whenever I say this, I feel it sounds a bit weird. I'd really get a thrill of doing what you've just said, sort of helping young people sort of get on and trying to give some. Give them a break.
- [16:18]
B
A mentor, you're like a mentor.
- [16:20]
A
And I, and I, I.
- [16:21]
B
It's a friendship thing as well and
- [16:23]
A
I like doing that. And I mean, Corey and who's the other one? Two people have done sort of public endorsements for the book and that's what they've said. Well, that I, I sort of specialize in mentoring young people. But in today's environment, people always think you've got some sort of horrible sort of reason for doing that. And I, I don't. I mean, Caleb is another one. I met Calum when he was 16 at the Global AC me and he interviewed me and then he turns up at lbc and I've really tried to help him get on and sort of show him what you need to do to get on as a producer at lbc. Well, not, not all presenters do that, I have to say.
- [17:00]
B
No, you're very generous like that and I can confirm that I don't see any dark sexual motive behind Ian's patronage. I will release the expose if I haven't did. No, I think it is. You're right, people do. There's so much cynicism in the world. I remember when I wrote my book Century Girls, this extraordinary Joyce Reynolds, an old don, hundred year old don at Cambridge, she was the original Mary Beard and she tutored Mary Beard. And I basically interviewed all those extraordinary women who she brought up in her wake. Not jealous of them because they could have it all. They could have the family, the baby and the academic career. She had to make a choice back in the day. You couldn't be both. She was just wonderful. And they talked about these incredible drinks evenings she threw and the excursions she took them on and the 360 support she gave them in and out of college. And all of them said a, you wouldn't have time to do that today because of the kind of bureaucracy that people are weighed down with. But also you just wouldn't. Questions would be asked and immediately there'd be suspicion.
- [18:03]
A
Just to round off last night, you, you should know and you should, you must tell Dan this, that he was quite a hit. The other Dan who was doing the barbecue is my good friend. I mean, he, he, I think went out of his way to take Dan under his wing, could see that maybe that this wasn't his usual crowd and they had a very, very long chat, I think, over the barbecue. And no, Dan, Dan really liked him and I mean, I did feel sorry for him a bit because clearly if you are Tessa, if you are Tessa Dunlop's husband, you kind of, you kind of take a back seat, don't you?
- [18:40]
B
He very much enjoyed the company of your Dan, who he said lightly at the end of the evening, I think he must have money because one of his hobbies is, is doing up Ferraris. That'll be Ian.
- [18:51]
A
No, actually it isn't. Dan somehow got a secondhand Ferrari and he paid it, not that, not a huge amount of money for it. And he's had it in a garage being done up for the last three years and still hasn't sold it.
- [19:06]
B
Oh, well, we all need our ongoing perennial hobbies for when the weather gets wetter and a little bit.
- [19:12]
A
Yeah, but wasn't that A bastard. Yesterday, though, we've had, like, that bright sunshine all the week, and then the afternoon of the barbecue, it starts pissing down.
- [19:20]
B
I actually think it was bonding to move in and out of your enormous, many roomed house.
- [19:26]
A
It's not enormous. Now, you can't throw this at me anymore because you've now seen it and it's not enormous and it's not many rooms.
- [19:33]
B
I would say it's very well appointed. It's perfect for two and a couple of dogs. But, of course, because Ian's got so many buts, he actually wants to build an extension, which I rather love. At least it's not an extension for your car.
- [19:47]
A
And, and obviously, I was telling John about your. Tessa was sitting on our sitting room floor, sort of marshalling people into this game that she introduced and then kept complaining that she had dog hair all over her dress. And I'm thinking, well, yeah, you. You're in a house with a Jack Rosser. What do you expect?
- [20:06]
B
It's okay. I've washed the dress and it will be going on the cruise with me. I think we spent half an hour talking about the innards of your party. Corey, cut some of that bit. We're going to Ed Miliband next. Although arguably the part is probably more interesting.
- [20:17]
A
Yeah, exactly. And when I saw that you wanted to talk about Ed Miliband, I thought, well, what a way to switch off listeners. So if you want to go now, listeners, I'm not going to hold it again.
- [20:25]
B
Commandos are brilliant. And actually, the Ed Miliband totally ties in with the climate change stuff.
- [20:29]
A
Right.
- [20:30]
B
But the hate that your apathy generated. The hate, yeah.
- [20:33]
A
Well, that's because you made people hate me because of the bit that you chose to cut on the. From the zoom, which no doubt you'll do again on this one. I'm really. I've really got to learn how to do this video. Video lark. I'm making a bit of progress, but I'm not quite there yet. Anyway, break, and then we'll be talking about Ed Miliband and maybe David. So if we have to, we're going to spend a few minutes talking about Ed Miliband. I do want to leave time for some questions at the end, so let's not do this for too long. So the, the, the, the, the speculation is that Ed Miliband is now favorite to be Andy Burnham's Chancellor. I've just. I did a poll on my Sunday newsletter last week about who you thought, who people thought should be chancellor, and 42% said Wes Streeting, 36 said Pat McFadden, 18 said Shaban in Mahmood and only 5% said Ed Miliband. Now, you might say, well, that's not representative, because a lot of your listeners won't be representative of the electorate. And you would be right on that. But I do think 5% was quite low.
- [21:37]
B
Know, I think, yeah, that's a selective sample. It looks like it's now been whittled down to two possibilities. Shabsi Mahmoud, as you like to call her, and Ed Miliband. Apparently, Burnham's had zero contact with Mahmood all last week, whereas he's in constant contact with Ed Miliband. I was initially skeptical, but I think nicely teed up by the terrifying yeti and terrifying heat wave. Ed Miliband is the person that I think probably has to become the next Chancellor of the Exchequer. Several reasons. Did you see the open letter from 40 academics, economic experts, who wrote an open letter about the climate transition being one of the major drivers of industrial jobs? Over a million workers worth over a hundred billion pounds. And actually, that's where the future lies. If you're going to make money out of the North Sea, build wind turbines, don't drill for oil, you're not going to get out of the, the ground
- [22:36]
A
for another, you can do both.
- [22:37]
B
You know, why would you invest in something you're not going to reap the rewards from for another 10 years? And also there's risk involved.
- [22:43]
A
So that's, that's what, that's what people like you used to say about nuclear. And look where we are now. If we had, if we had the amount of nuclear that France does, we wouldn't have this energy crisis.
- [22:53]
B
I agree, but the things that were unknowable about nuclear, that we 100 know about the fossil fuel industry. And actually, while as we discussed, climate change became 2017 because we were the, the, the green. I think the green agenda was frightened or had been told not to scare people because it made humanity feel powerless. I think now there's going to be a bit of a 360. Well, no, but that's why I think not only is it Trump that's knocked climate change off the agenda, but thinking about what you were saying, it's also because about 20 years ago, people were terrified into a sort of helpless state. They felt there's nothing we could do. So there was this kind of gear change about playing it down and looking for solutions. And the impact of that is for people to think, oh, someone else will solve it. And I think there's got to be a kind of rebalancing of the pendulum. And Ed Miliband might be the man who actually looks like he can walk the walk and talk the talk. You shake your head, Ian, but climate change ain't going away.
- [23:52]
A
You're utterly delusional if you think that Ed Miliband is the answer to all of our problems. He's absolutely the opposite of the answer. If he becomes Chancellor of the Exchequer, that will be the first death knife in the anti Burnham government. I'm absolutely convinced of it. The man doesn't understand economic growth. He is obsessed by green issues. And look, I, I tried to make clear in the last podcast and the problem with you putting out that clip, totally misrepresent. I mean I did obviously say the words because it was envisioned, but it didn't take into account the context that I put it in at all. And I, I don't deny climate change. I, I want to see measures put in place to mitigate it. But it's much more complicated than how you're putting it. And I couldn't give a rat's ass if 40 academics write a letter to their Times or whatever. I have a policy of never reading those letters because they're self selecting. They all have an agenda. Most of them are funded by the climate change industry and I don't take any notice of what they say. Now, if you think that Ed Miliband imposing his green zealotry on the treasury is going to result in loads of economic growth, growth you know nothing about economics.
- [25:01]
B
I also want to point more broadly to the power, potential power of Ed Miliband in number 11. And one is he would have credibility with the left of the party and he's more likely to get them to squeeze down the welfare bill than someone on the right. He's also an antidote to the appointment of James Parnell, which has rattled some of the left. And thirdly, the idea that he doesn't understand about fiscal constraint. He was serving under Gordon Brown, one of Gordon Brown's aides in 1997 when the Chancellor first invented fiscal rules.
- [25:36]
A
Do you think that the City of London and the financial markets have any confidence in Edmilliband?
- [25:41]
B
Well, let's have a look. Interestingly, given he's been one of the favourites for Chancellor and Burnham arrived as the King of the north with Edmilliband firmly in his pocket. I was interested. The bond market, etc didn't seem too rattled. Settled.
- [25:54]
A
Well, we will see. But in a couple. If he does do this and I'm not convinced he will do it, but in a couple of years time. Let's come back to this episode of the podcast and see who was right because I, I, yes, he has. He served under Gordon Brown in the Treasury. You're absolutely right. It's one of his key advisors. So his one advantage, I suppose, over the other contenders for the job is that he kind of has a bit of history in the Treasury. He knows how the treasury can be the roadblock to every everything and politicians, I mean, very few Chancellors have ever been in control of the Treasury. It's the treasury that have controlled the Chancellor. So from that point of view, you might have a bit of a point, but I think he would be an incredibly bad choice overall.
- [26:40]
B
A bit of a rowback. Do I hear a softening in the tone?
- [26:43]
A
No, not at all. I, I actually quite like Ed Miliband. I, I know him a bit, I've interviewed him quite a few times. I remember, I remember when he was leader we were trying to get him to do a phone in and I mean Ed Miliband in some ways is not your ideal phone in politician. Anyway, I got my way in the end. I persuaded Tom Baldwin that it should happen. So they said, right, we'll come down to Hastings on this particular day and he's doing some events there, so do it in Hastings. And he was actually quite good and quite entertained. He's got, he has got, he hides quite an impish sense of humor in many ways. And I think some of his public Persona is unfair. I mean that bacon roll thing, I mean really, really unfair. It was bizarre because you've probably. Do you know Christo Fufas?
- [27:31]
B
Yes, I do know him.
- [27:32]
A
He used to be on LBC at that time and it turned out that it was his dad who owned the cafe where Ed Miliband ate the bacon roll. And I do, I do feel sorry for him about that. I don't think he was a bad leader of the Labour Party. Most of us thought that he was going to win the 2015 election. I think he thought he was going to win the 2015 election. I mean, obviously that didn't happen and that I think has sort of colored his pitch ever since. And nobody ever thought that he would really ever get back into senior, senior role within a Labour government. But the fact is, if Andy Burnham hadn't won that by election, we'd now be talking about Ed Miliband as one of the leadership candidates.
- [28:14]
B
Yeah. And I don't think he'd have come again. He's not a cut and come again kind of guy, I think. Interestingly, took down his brother Kemi Badenok, obviously referencing that in Parliament last week. There's also talk in some of the papers today about David Miliband returning, presumably piloted in like Jackie through the Lords to be Foreign Secretary, doing a bit of a David Cameron. Do you see that happening? Two Milibands for one.
- [28:37]
A
It could happen. Or if they want to get the band back together and effectively go back in time, that's what Andy Burnham will do. I mean, I. I like David Miliband as well. I think he's a first class politician and was completely nixed by his brother. And I mean, there's still obviously some tensions there. So I'm. I'm not sure I see that happening. I mean, James Purnell is obviously a big friend of his, but what signal does that send out? Well, we've got 400 MPS, but that we have to bring back David Miliband because we can't find anybody else who's capable of being Foreign Secretary. But he clearly wants the job. I mean, he did an event at the Institute of Government last week and he said, they asked him, would you take it? And he said, well, let's leave the new Prime Minister to form his own cabinet, shall we? I. E. A non denial, non denial. So it's possible, but I mean that the formation of that Cabinet. I know we did a little bit of that a couple of episodes ago. It's going to be fascinating. Waiting to see who he brings in and who.
- [29:39]
B
I just. But, but I think is this benefiting the country? Another month, basically, of speculation. I'm bloody God, I'm going on a cruise. The other thing that happened when you were hiding under the duvet this morning, contemplating England's very late win. I was almost back in London by the time Harry, whatever he's called, rediscovered his First World War form and smacked it across the line via a header for the second goal. I mean, it was only once you get the second goal, you really know you're going to win, isn't it in football? I always think.
- [30:05]
A
Think, never talk about football, Tessa. I'm just saying, 2 nil is 1 of the most dangerous scores in football. Okay. You'd always want to be 2 nil rather than nil 2. But I mean, if it had been 2 nil at half time, there's still 45 minutes for the other team to come back. But you're right, it was all a bit late.
- [30:22]
B
It was a bit late because I remember we were just entering London and it was still a score. Draw. Nil. Nil. And they were going to come in through second because Croatia at the time, I think, was leading. I was like, really? That's pathetic. And then.
- [30:33]
A
Not as pathetic as Scotland though, is it?
- [30:35]
B
Yeah, well, that. Well, we know that they don't have quite such a large pool or so much money to draw from. That's not to excuse.
- [30:41]
A
They always talk such a big game, don't they? And it always ends in terrible tears. And the manager has already resigned.
- [30:49]
B
Quite right. I mean, it was dismal. Their performance was dismal. I think Haiti scored more goals than they did in the group. In the end it was really a tragedy. But Harry, I just think, think Harry Kane looks like he. He's got grandfather who was a tommy in the First World War. He's got that look. If I was a casting agent, I'd want him in my. Would you agree?
- [31:08]
A
Totally agree. Talking of Harry, shouldn't we be talking a bit about the Royal Family in this episode?
- [31:13]
B
Yeah, and I want to slip in the commandos. I need to talk a bit faster, basically.
- [31:17]
A
Well, let's do. No, no, no, no, let's do that after a break because we're, we're going to be chasing our tails otherwise. So we will come back with a little bit about Prince Harry. Will he won't be. Will he or won't he, bringing Meghan and the kids to meet the grandfather? Because it seems as though he may be rowing back on those plans. So I'm quite surprised at the lack of coverage and comment that the release of the King and Williams tax affairs got on Thursday night. I mean, it obviously got a bit, but it wasn't sort of quite as blank as I thought it might be.
- [32:00]
B
Well, I think it was very strategic. First of all, I'd like to point out I was on Newsnight intoning about this very.
- [32:06]
A
And I intended to watch it, but
- [32:08]
B
I forgot even Newsnight had been postponed until later because of the football. So the Royal Family, I mean, they couldn't have planned it entirely because no one knows when the heat wave's going to hit. But they had a heat wave and they had a World Cup. So what they do is they plop onto their spreadsheet, which is basically their end of term report for the sovereign grant. They plop into that, you know, a non cycle figure about how much income tax they pay. Well, given that we don't know what income they're declaring because all of it's voluntary and we don't know where they pay capital gains, the figure is totally pointless. I was sitting next to establishment Robert
- [32:41]
A
Hartman, who insisted, oh, he's a very great man. Man.
- [32:44]
B
He is a great man. But he insisted, you know, for the Daily Mail. And he's very good and loyal and loves the King and it's fine, we're all very fond of the King, but he said, oh, well, you know, he's just half a starry Hiles Styles and he's somewhere between a pillow manufacturer and a light bulb owner in terms of the top 100 taxpayers. At which point I'm thinking, yeah, Robert, but we don't know how much of his wealth he's paying tax on, but it, you know, so basically this absolutely suited the royalists because they could say, say, look what the King's declared. But actually what he's done is he's obfuscated, as usual. But the other big announcement was, of course, he's not returning to Buckingham palace, which we've known for ages, but somehow seeing it starkly presented in black and white. You're wonderful, you know, AA Mill, you know, the changing of the guard. Will the King be at the window? No, he's never going to be ever again at the bloody window. And I think, and that's what I wrote for the Telegraph, that they're asking us to not demand of the King that he moves home in late old age because he's happy and bourgeois in Clarence House. And that's logical, but actually, what's not logical is a man evading most taxation, having a zillion palaces. I mean, Sandringham, Balmoral, Highgrove, Clarence, Buckpal, Windsor. It's just a nonsense. And this is an obfuscation and pretense around them sharing more of their finances. So I did take umbrage with that and I tried to be really cheerful about it, so I didn't look aggressive.
- [34:13]
A
I think the. The big thing from all of that for me, actually, is the not living in Buckingham palace, because I think that is quite a moment in our. In our royal history. Because when was Buckingham palace built? Was it 1820?
- [34:26]
B
So it was basically, it became important under George IV when he got John Nash and to reappoint it. And then it's, you know. But it was Victoria who first turned it into a royal residence for the monarchs.
- [34:37]
A
What was that? What was there before Buckingham Palace?
- [34:40]
B
Well, it was Buckingham House, wasn't it? And then it was turned into this. Yeah, it was converted, but it was Victoria getting away from her mother in 1837. You then have a case in 1952, where the king dies prematurely. The Edinburghs, who are Elizabeth and Philip, are living in Clarence House and Philip's done it all up in a fancy way and they don't want to move back into Buckpal. Philip's really angry anyway. He's had to come back from Malta, give up his job, he's huffing and puffing and Churchill basically really reads the. Throws the rule book at them, reads the right act and says, you've got to get your asses back into Buckpal. That's the belly button of the monarchy. You know, this is the next Elizabethan age. You're about to go off on your big tour, it needs to, you know, look the part. And they do as they're told because Philip and Elizabeth are old school and understand the power of monarchy and also because, well, Churchill was Churchill. Can you imagine Keir Starmer saying to King Charles, get back to Buck.
- [35:38]
A
No, I think you should. I can't do a Starmer impression, but I have to anyway.
- [35:43]
B
Interesting there.
- [35:43]
A
I'll have to learn how to do the King of the north gravy. That's what we want, gravy.
- [35:49]
B
Maybe Andy Barnum should move in as the new King of the North.
- [35:54]
A
Why not? Let's quickly talk about Harry and will he or won't he be bringing Megan and the children over with him in July? Why the change of heart?
- [36:03]
B
Because Ravic, which is the board that decides, governmental board that decides which which individuals, incoming individuals require state level security, has deemed the risk not sufficient to merit the security cover. Now big Harry fans will say, oh, but what about Taylor Swift and Herrera's tall? She got protection. Why doesn't Harry? Why doesn't Meghan, once the prince, always a prince that baked in risk that comes with his in Bill born celebrity, which he doubled down on by marrying Meghan, arguably doesn't go away. I think think for understandable reasons they have have been worried about their security. Terrible trolling, numerous death threats and instances, I think of pretty unpleasant attention verging on stalking. So I do have a degree of sympathy with them, what this might mean. And I think it's more about pride at this point than anything else because if he lives or stays in one of the royal accommodations, we know Buckpal is free. I don't think he wants to go there. It's too much in the belly button of things. But there's plenty lodgings available which have inbuilt security. But in the visit he was also apparently going to be staying in private accommodation and there's the rub, the rub is actually that's, that's challenging for, you know, for Harry to say on the one hand I need security, then not to be given it and then to come anyway with his family, it looks like he's suddenly saying he doesn't need security. And I think pride might stop him bringing Megan and the children, which would be a great shame. You know, the King hasn't really met the youngest child, Lily Bet, since she was a baby. And I think all of us kind of want the healing process to get underway.
- [37:46]
A
Well, as you know, I, I'm not a fan of the Markles, as I like to call them, but on this I do think they have a point. I, I think anybody that thinks that there is no security, security risk attached to them is living in cloud cuckoo land. Given the, the, the times that we live in, given the threats that this country faces, I, I think it, it's just, it would be normal to provide someone like him and her with security. So I think that should happen does
- [38:16]
B
seem extraordinarily naive and you realize it's a case of computer says no or some bureaucrats like n. Now, you know, recent relative risk levels suggest that we don't need to provide them with security, when actually I would argue from an optics level it's important to provide them security.
- [38:35]
A
This is where the agency vacation of government has gone wrong. Because if this decision had been taken say 30 or 40 years ago, that would have automatically been referred to the Home Secretary. But successive governments have decided to denude themselves, themselves of the power to make these decisions because they don't. They or, well, politicians aren't involved. Our hands are clean. Well, no, that's what you're there for as a minister, to make these kinds of decisions. So it seems to me as though this Ravet committee is almost a law unto itself that it has no political accountability at all. If I was Shabana Mahmoud, I'd be calling this in.
- [39:12]
B
And we know that Shabbat Mahmoud sent Harry quite a warm letter by all accounts, a kind of letter of reassurance last year, year. Which is why this has gone so far down the track because I think that the Sussexes presumed it was a given, effectively, and yet it hasn't materialized. So I have a degree of sympathy with them. I don't think they're probably going to find they're in danger. They've got their own security and they will be, as I say, in protected accommodation if they choose to stay in the Royal precincts. But it is, yeah, it's intense A kick in the solar plexus really on the eve of what could have been a bit of a road to recovery moment. This is a year away from the Invictus Games. I think the King feels sufficiently secure nowadays. He's had quite a good run of it, particularly on the other side of the Atlantic with Trump. He's got away with his tax return. There hasn't been a revolution in the wake of news. He's not going to be living in Buckingham palace and why not be generous to a second psalm? So the States got in the way. More's the goddamn pity.
- [40:17]
A
Right, five minutes on commandos then. Questions?
- [40:20]
B
Are we going to go to a break or are we going to go straight into command?
- [40:22]
A
No, I just said five minutes on commandos.
- [40:25]
B
Okay.
- [40:25]
A
Because I like to be dictatorial about these things.
- [40:27]
B
Well, no, it's fine, Harry. Of course keen military man would approve of this. Dan Jarvis. You might not know who he is because he just very last minute replaced John Healey, the Ministry of Defense Defence. He has committed half a billion, no, half, yes, half a billion pounds to the transformation of the UK commando force including new high speed commando insertion craft. More drones, more flexibility. Basically taking the fight to the enemy, particularly up at the, in the high seas, the high north. Collaborating with Norway. I envisage this being more combat raids against for example Russia's Shadow Fleet. If you want the genesis of the commando unit, can you give me the year of their inception by any chance? Ian Dale?
- [41:15]
A
No. So do you want me to guess? Yeah, go on, have a go to 1947.
- [41:21]
B
1940. Congratulations.
- [41:24]
A
It wasn't far off, was I?
- [41:27]
B
1940 in the wake of the evacuation of Dunkirk work. Churchill's like we've got to fight this differently. Realizing we're not going to have a big set piece victory for quite some time. You need something to keep morale up as much as anything. He launches a force. At first there's a couple of attempted sort of missions in the likes of Guernsey, Bologna in France doesn't really come to much.
- [41:48]
A
He puts Bologna's in Italy. I think you mean Bologne.
- [41:52]
B
Thank you very much. He puts Mountbatten in charge. He's across all the four seats and he very much is about morale. And this is about units working as one your elite crack troops. They were an extraordinary, well sort of unit to be honest. Several thousand men by the end of the war they've taken 1,700 casualties. I was reading up on one of their early on one of their sort of game changing missions up in the Norwegian waters. Some of the islands up there because of the fish oil, apparently very effective as an explosive and also essential for the U boat boys vitamins because, of course, they weren't seeing any sunlight. And that was where we sort of pitched our mission to prove that these commandos, many were very skeptical about what they were doing and whether it was a risk worth taking. And with collaboration, Norwegian intelligence collaboration. We stormed a couple of islands very, very effectively within a day. V Let me get this right. Vagso and Malloy, you won't be able to correct me because you won't have heard of them. And there was. I mean, we did lose tens of men. The Germans lost about 150. But we managed to from a standing start. You know, an amphibious attack is very, very difficult. We overwhelmed them both sea on land and on air there. And from then on, they. There was really no stopping the commandos. But of course, there was also dissent because the exile King of Norway is like, these are pinprick battles. And what that's going to do is make sure the Gestapo clamped down on Norwegian civilians, which is exactly what they did do, because they realized there's lots of leaks because you don't have that level of intelligence to give you a victory that quickly unless you're working really intimately with the Norwegians. But ultimately, what it also meant was, was a lot of the German fleet were pinned up in Norway, even at the time of the D Day landings down in Normandy, the. The Germans had huge numbers of missiles, submarines and defense up in Norway, where there are goddamn no use at all. But also, we were better at picking off the German fleet when they were pinned up against Norway than we would have been trying to track them down in the Atlantic. I was just interested that this is happening in the high north again as well.
- [44:07]
A
Yes, but surely. And this is where I haven't read the story completely, but on the front page of the Sunday Times today, there's a story saying, well, we're not going to have ships anymore. We're just going to have drones. And I'm thinking, well, I. I completely buy into increasing our drone warfare capabilities, but surely you also need to have ships, not least to defend your air defenses, but also if you're going to conduct operations in the high north, that then you've got to have both submarines and ships to be able to do that. Surely.
- [44:34]
B
Of course. And we know from taking out that Shadow fleet vessel the other day in the Channel, it's a combination. It's the combined force. And your commandos need to know how to operate sometimes crewless craft, sometimes manless drones or humanless drones, but also to work alongside that technology. And that's what this is all about. It's high speed commando insertion craft. But who knows how to use them? You need to have guys and girls who are really impressive physically, mentally and know their territory, but you have to
- [45:05]
A
have the frigates or destroyers in the area for them to be launched.
- [45:10]
B
Yeah, yeah, you do that. That too. But this is just a tack on. It's a half a billion pound sop, isn't it? Because we've got this.
- [45:17]
A
But my point is that the government in this defense improvement or is it investment plan that they're apparently now going to release on Tuesday, which I think is crazy crackers. They should wait till Burnham comes in. Apparently in that Starmer with Burnham's backing has said that they're not going to renew the type. Is it type 42 frigates or is it type 45? Whichever one, they're not going to renew them. And you're thinking, well, we've only got six of them and four of those are in port at the moment. So what impact is that going to have on, on our.
- [45:49]
B
The thing is, if you're doing these rapid reaction skirmishes and stuff, I don't know the extent to which you do need frigates. Although interestingly, for example, the attacks on Norway in the winter, I think it was of 1941, you did have a defensive fleet. They got smashed leaving Scapa north and got absolutely smashed by winter storms and had to delay the attack. But it depends on what they're planning. But when it came to that takedown of a Russian shadow vessel, what. What were the craft used to do that?
- [46:22]
A
Well, that was in the middle of the English. That was in the middle of the English Channel. I don't think that's comparing light with light. The threats that we face at the moment are from many areas, but predominantly Russia and the Middle East. Now in. If you're thinking of if Russia attacks this country, it's likely to be through missiles which could be launched from ships or more, more likely from land. But if they really wanted to do damage to us, they will have their fleet sailing towards the North Sea through the Baltic Sea. And surely we therefore need some sort of ship defenses to either deter them or to repel them.
- [46:57]
B
Possibly. But remember, we are going to be allying ourselves with Norway, key NATO ally, armed up to the gills, partly because of where it is geographically, partly because it's one of the richest countries in Europe. And also together then we can build on that historic type 26 frigate deal. So I don't. We're not alone in this. Britain's just par a cog in a greater wheel, if you like. And I think it'll be interesting how you divvy up where you spend your assets. I think it's quite exciting if I'm honest. And by the way, history of the commanders, 99p. Lest we forget for two more days it's 99p. I love the commandos. I think they're exceptional. I mean honestly, balls of bloody steel.
- [47:36]
A
No, absolutely. But did you see also I think it was in the Sunday Times. If you put can a league table of all. Is it 32 NATO nations now 31. We are second from bottom in meeting the commitments that we've promised. I mean that is a national embarrassment, isn't it?
- [47:55]
B
Yeah, we're slow off the mark. We've lost our lead and it's.
- [47:59]
A
We've always been seen as the most important country in NATO apart from the United States. And now we're not. Just not the second most important. We've. Well, I won't say we're meaningless, but it's getting to that point. Right. We, we have to crack on because otherwise we're going to go on for far too long. We know how you don't like doing that. So after the break we're going to take some questions and if you want to put questions for the next couple of episodes, email where politics meets historylobal.com and you can can leave a message wherever you find us on social media, but predominantly on Instagram. That's. That's where Tessa monitors the most. Okay, questions next. Okay right, questions. I. I can't give the name of this person because they've asked me not to. Hi. Both love the pod but tend to align a lot more with the professor himself rather than Dr. Dunlop. That said I have to raise the earth firm stance that the other council had raised concerns around flags on lamp that no other or do we didn't we do this one last time?
- [49:00]
B
This is another one on the same subject.
- [49:02]
A
Another one. Anyway, he's. He says the council in the northeast of Scotland, this Tory Lib Dam council had to take a similar stance due to the incredible amount of flags Soul tires and the ladies lesser spotted Union Jack appearing on lampposts last summer. And council officers took a lot of abuse for taking them down to the point that they had to stop. They looked a complete mess come winter time. Anyway, just flagging this is not an isolated issue. Well, okay, it's happened in one other council A bit big deal. I still don't see the problem of people putting a national flag in public places, but there we go.
- [49:45]
B
Interesting. What piques people's interest? The other one, of course, is your stance on climate change. This is from Ruth. I'm just catching up on the latest pod and Ian doesn't quite believe those from hot countries saying how much worse UK heat is. I grew up in Hong Kong where the summers are very hot and humid, but our houses were built for it and malls, supermarkets, shops, etc have aircon on full blast so you can escape the heat. Heat. The MTR brackets underground is lovely and cool all the time. You also get absolutely used to it. The weather in the UK feels like a roller coaster often and my bedroom at midnight was 29 degrees centigrade and I'm in Lincolnshire, so London must be hellish. Going to read on from that second one. Slightly similar. Juliet, I'm afraid I agree with Ian in terms of you can't tell people they're stupid if they don't believe in climate change. People hate to be told what to do and will indeed cut their noses off despite their faces. For example, Brexit. Also, Ian says he's eating less red meat to help the environment. Not last night. I've never seen so much bloody meat. And. And when he asked if either of you were vegetarian, you were very dismissive. That's to me, he missed a beat. As consistent studies show the easiest and quickest impact anyone can have on climate change is to reduce animal agriculture and eat less meat. Like Ian. Love the pod. Irritating to be agreeing more with Ian again on something that said, I do not find climate change boring like he does, just frustrating. People won't consider the most simple steps
- [51:15]
A
just to say I did not eat less red meat because of climate change and it wasn't even. It wasn't even a conscious decision. I think it's more that all because of my diabetes. All of the dietary recommendations recommendations I get is to cut down on red meat. And I think over time I've probably cut my red meat consumption by about half.
- [51:37]
B
You're such a selfish wanker. In other words, it's to save you, not.
- [51:40]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [51:41]
B
That you stopped eating animals.
- [51:42]
A
Exactly. But you see that that's the thing. Most people do act in their own self interest and that's that. And that is what governments have consistently failed to understand and they should be conducting all their marketing and PR campaigns on, on this issue to take notice of that. So yes, you can appeal to people's wider sense of Doing good. And. And we all have that to an extent. But if. If you just as a questioner cited there, if you just tell people that they're being evil, if they. If they eat a certain thing or something, well, don't be surprised that people rebel against it.
- [52:21]
B
Finally she says, oh, just thought of something I disagree with Ian about. Climate change is not just about our country being hotter. It's about glaciers disappearing, ice caps melting, ocean currents being disrupted. Obs. My Insta feed showed me such articles after the pod. Now they're going to be in my feed for the next few days, as Ian's discovered. Click on something once. It's like, why do I keep getting women?
- [52:44]
A
I don't get these.
- [52:45]
B
Well, I get women over 50 who've had facelifts. I don't know what I'm trying to be told by the Instagram algorithm. Yeah, yeah, loads horrible.
- [52:52]
A
I just get sort of footballers from the World cup showing their willies.
- [52:56]
B
What say about the two of us, Ian?
- [52:58]
A
Quiet. I think it was.
- [53:01]
B
While we're ahead.
- [53:02]
A
I think it was all because. Do you remember that a couple. A month or so ago, there was. Was it an Arsenal footballer? It was tackled and like, slid along the ground and his shorts came off. So you saw his bum. And when I first saw that, I thought, that must be an AI thing. So I clicked on it again and then clicked on it again and I was thinking, well, why do you see his bum? But you can't see anything else? And I think that must be the reason I get all of these other ones. Showing Scott McTominay with a tent in
- [53:30]
B
his shorts at the beginning of the pod. You beseeched us to not think that you could ever have an ulterior motive for anything.
- [53:40]
A
It was inadvertent. That's my story.
- [53:44]
B
Oh, it's always inadvertent, Ian. It's always inadvertent. Couldn't. I'm going to be connecting with you next far. Starlink. Skylink.
- [53:52]
A
Oh, yeah. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? She's on this cruise around the Mediterranean. Presumably you haven't had to pay for a penny for it. You're paying people, they're paying you to speak. And. And we've got to do the podcast next Thursday via Starlink. Well, I've never done anything through Starlink before, so I have no confidence at all it'll work.
- [54:10]
B
Well, make sure you have a standby and I promise I'll bring them gallons of Italian wine if something. If Elon Musk lets me down.
- [54:17]
A
So where Are you actually going to be.
- [54:18]
B
I haven't really had time to look at the route yet, but I'm. I don't dare admit, as I'm the climate campaigner on the pod, that I'm actually flying to Rome. That's where it's starting.
- [54:29]
A
And then next Monday, because your travel plans don't work for the pod, Natasha Clark will be here in, in your stead.
- [54:37]
B
Yeah, but please, I. When you go on these cruises, just so you know, they, they trap you on and you have to be there to speak on the sea days. So that means they want me for the day after tomorrow to speak and entertain their guests on the sea day or to kill them off, depending what I'm talking about, if it's not too left wing. That's the problem. You know me, radical progressive, Ian. And often on cruise ships they're quite, how can I put it, they're a little bit more conservative. So if I've not been tipped overboard, then the next sea day isn't till the Sunday. So I'm being flown off, you see, on the Monday and I couldn't, I'd really tried, but then because of the jet fuel crisis, this, they canceled the original set of flights, so I couldn't, I couldn't get home in time for you.
- [55:16]
A
Too much information. Right. Edward says. Corey, Edward says. I recall on a previous pod some time ago, Tessa revealing that her green zealotry extends to the supremely unhygienic move of only showering every other day. Does she keep this up even in these horribly hot. I nearly read that as horn hot. Horribly hot and sticky days. And if so, did she deign to step into the shower before Saturday's social highlight of the year in Tunbridge Wells vicinity? Or was she a bit wiffy? I think we should be. Well, I can confirm that Tessa was not at all wifi. She smelled very fragrant and we had various hugs throughout the course of the evening when she was apologizing for crying and. And she smelled very lovely, actually.
- [56:04]
B
Well, I, I can actually confirm that in very hot weather I do always make sure I wash the essentials, the pockets and the patches. But because it was Ian's big day, I did have a full head to toe shower. But thank you for your inquiry, sir.
- [56:19]
A
I had two showers yesterday because I spent the whole day, as did John, trying to get the house in some sort of semblance of order and cleanliness. I didn't succeed wholly on that front, but I also had to do a bit of strimming and there was an st before the bit that people seem to have misunderstood on Twitter. So I went to Strim where I've been mowing, where I couldn't get the mower. So that. And that's quite a sweaty thing. So. So I had a shower in the morning and then I had a shower just before the lovely guests arrived.
- [56:53]
B
You were accusing me of too much information. I think that actually capped my cruise excursion.
- [56:58]
A
David says surely first time that a leadership contest does not include any of the holders of the other three top offices. Reeves, Lamy, Mahmoud, not even mentioned in passing. They're so bad that they may have to choose someone who wasn't even an MP until last week. Labor mps are in a fantasy world. It's not the front man for the policies that is the issue, it's the policies too. I hate eight coronations, says David. I mean, I haven't gone back and checked, but it's probably quite unusual for there not to be anybody who's held a first one of the. One of the top three offices of state. I mean when Tony Blair stood, well, Gordon Brown hadn't. He hadn't
- [57:47]
B
kissed on him being good dog of government when he took over. Over.
- [57:49]
A
No, but there were. There were other people in. In when. When he won the leadership, weren't there? Who was there? Just Phillips, Liz Kendall. My mind's gone completely blank. But no, I think David makes a good point though it is a little odd that you haven't got any of the others even being. Well, in fact Cooper's sort of been mentioned, but not really very seriously.
- [58:10]
B
Nobody's mentioned Lammy because they're starmers men and women. That's why all the king's horses and all the king's men go and you get in a few a fresh bucket. Let's see where Jackie lands. I was speaking to your guests last night and they very much felt that Burnham will have to surround himself with gross. I know babes and therefore women are safer than men who are already in government positions. I don't know if you hold any stop by that.
- [58:32]
A
Well, judging by that picture in Westminster hall that was taken this the selfie one, all you could see was women in the front.
- [58:39]
B
Oh, quite right. Shame there's not one literally heading up the government. Government. On that note, I. I genuinely think we're quite warm and the family's all about to load onto the Internet because they've given me a whole hour on a Sunday without a single one of them touching Internet. So I had crystal clear reception in.
- [58:54]
A
Okay, well, we will reconvene on Thursday on Starlink, courtesy of your hero, Elon Musk. Goodbye.
- [59:03]
B
Love you.
- [59:03]
A
Bye. This has been a global production.