I Told My Friend I Was in Love with Her, Then She Told Everyone

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel
Episode: I Told My Friend I Was in Love with Her, Then She Told Everyone
Date: January 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this raw, intimate session, a caller shares the aftermath of confessing long-held romantic feelings for his close friend—also his friend group’s central figure—who is in a committed relationship. His disclosure, prompted by overwhelming emotion and years of inner turmoil, unexpectedly ripples through their intertwined relationships, resulting in heartbreak, lost friendships, and a sense of public exposure. Esther Perel guides the caller through layered feelings of betrayal, embarrassment, loss, and self-understanding, offering insight into the dynamics of suppressed desire, unmet expectations, and the search for self-forgiveness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Confession and Consequence (02:30 – 06:26)

• The caller describes being in love with his close friend for six years, both in long-term relationships. Despite mutual emotional intimacy and the pressure of group loyalties ("He said he would not be my friend anymore if I ever hooked up with her"), he finally confesses his feelings.
• She promises to keep it secret, but within days tells her boyfriend, who then approaches the caller. This triggers a cascade: he feels compelled to reveal everything to his partner, leading to their breakup and disruptions across the friend group.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller (04:38): "It wasn't reciprocated. She said she needed some time to process. And then she sent me an email saying that she just saw me as a deep friend…never saw me as anything more than that."
• Esther Perel (05:50): "Much happened in such a short amount of time… you did nothing wrong except maybe being in a relationship with someone that you didn't nearly care about as much as she thought you did."

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2. Emotional Fallout: Betrayal, Exposure, and Loss (06:26 – 10:33)

• Relationship cracks existed before the confession. The caller’s partner had doubts; “we were talking about having children… then she had those doubts," prompting the caller to romanticize the friend as an escape.
• The friend’s disclosure to her boyfriend made the caller feel betrayed, not just due to broken confidentiality, but through the ripple effect—loss of relationships, family ties, and the crumbling of his social circle.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller (07:58): "I'm still living with my ex. We're in the process of separating. I'll be moving out by the end of the month… Socially it's been good, but mixed."
• Caller (10:33): "I kind of feel like I've just been taking distance from him… I don't see him as, like, a good, supportive person to talk to about it."

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3. Understanding the Cyclical Pattern: Emotional Repression and Escalation (12:05 – 15:18)

• Caller traces a pattern of emotional repression—“to appease someone else”—and how neglected feelings intensify until they burst out, sometimes destructively.
• The longing for his friend was both an escape and a product of difficulties in his relationship, not adequately addressed in the moment.

Notable Quotes:

• Caller (14:04): "I've always, like, pulled her in closer...every time she would do that...it would, like, make me doubt the relationship more every time."
• Esther Perel (15:13): "You are in a relationship when you are just friends. But it's a different relationship."

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4. Metabolizing Pain: Shame, Exposure, and Moving Forward (21:56 – 29:23)

• The sense of betrayal is intertwined with embarrassment and feeling exposed: “I definitely feel exposed. I feel really exposed. I definitely question my sanity.”
• Esther reframes the experience, urging the caller to place the feeling of exposure above betrayal—in the public unfolding of his secret, he feels most vulnerable.

Notable Quotes:

• Esther Perel (24:58): "I would like to invite you to put the exposure at the top."
• Caller (25:10): "The embarrassment is…because everybody knows that you were rejected… I was ready for that, but I don't think I was ready for everyone to have this situation unfold."

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5. Letter Writing as Ritual and Healing (26:00 – 29:23; 47:23 – 49:32)

• Esther suggests writing unsent letters—by hand—as ritualized catharsis. The eventual “letter to send” should be less about expelling pain and more a balanced reflection, acknowledging both parties’ perspectives, the depth of the relationship, and mutual hopes moving forward.
• The caller recognizes the need for a more reciprocal, less impulsive communication to restore, if possible, their connection.

Notable Quotes:

• Esther Perel (28:52): "It's as if my love for you is now just commodity that can be passed around in gossip."
• Esther Perel (49:32): "You know it's the letter to send when it becomes a letter that involves two people and not just one person reacting to another."

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6. The Caller’s Emotional Inheritance: Parental Pattern Recognition (37:31 – 42:31)

• A revealing parallel emerges: the caller’s father, an emotionally volatile figure, would “get really intense and just kind of blows up.” The caller realizes a similar dynamic, where emotions become uncontainable and spill out “without thinking how it will affect you or the people around you.”
• This pattern, seen in both love and family, helps him locate the roots of his emotional intensity and the urge for drastic expression.

Notable Quotes:

• Esther Perel (40:54): "You have another very important relationship where you're trying to say to someone, I care deeply about you, and it doesn’t feel to you that it’s coming back."
• Esther Perel (42:52): "You poured your heart out, but you didn’t do anything... And now you know your place."

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7. Acceptance, Compassion, and Looking Forward (44:24 – end)

• The caller expresses shame and regret (“I feel like the fool”) but also understands that love is messy, irrational, and sometimes foolish but not shameful.
• Esther normalizes these difficult feelings, encourages self-compassion, and suggests that as the caller’s life stabilizes post-breakup and move, his pain will naturally diminish.
• The episode ends with Esther reinforcing the value of self-forgiveness, ritual, and moving towards writing a letter when ready—one that honors, rather than simply reacts to, the profound connection.

Notable Quotes:

• Esther Perel (43:55): "Love is foolish sometimes. It’s impetuous. It’s insubordinate. It doesn’t always follow the laws of good citizenship."
• Esther Perel (51:16): "There's no good way to end this except in the middle of a sentence."

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Memorable Moments & Quotes by Timestamp

• Confession and cascade:
  Caller: "After he found out, I felt like I had no choice, but I had to tell my partner, which led to the dissolution of our relationship and...a lot of loss." (03:46)
• Betrayal vs. exposure:
  Esther: "I would like to invite you to put the exposure at the top." (24:58)
• Emotional pattern recognition:
  Esther: “Sometimes things...become so intense and it feels unmanageable and disregulated that you...burst. Not aggressively...but it leaks out of you....And you've watched this many times. It's not a behavior you don't know. You've been on the receiving end of that.” (41:30–42:31)
• On self-harm through confession:
  Esther: "It's a form of self-harm. It's not just a revelation of your heart." (34:01)
• On letter writing:
  Esther: "There's something about feelings coming through our hands...Have a ritual around those letters that allow you to express in the full sense of the word express." (47:44–48:18)

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Conclusion

This episode holds up a mirror to the complexity of suppressed desire, confession, and the unpredictable ripples of truth revealed. With tenderness and tough questions, Esther helps the caller untangle shame from self-understanding—revealing that exposure, not betrayal, is often the hardest part of being truly seen. The episode closes on the hopeful note of ritual, reflection, and the gradual healing that begins when we learn to metabolize our feelings and see our patterns with compassion.

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Transcript

[Caller]

Hey Esther. So I have been in love with my close friend now for six years and we're both in committed relationships long term committed relationships four and five years and I've always had this interest in her. But my good friend who introduced me to her and to the friend group that is all around her, her and I, he said he would not be my friend anymore if I ever hooked up with her or we ever became a thing. So I had a loyalty to him, never pursued her seriously just as a friend because I wanted to be a part of her life because I had such a like I was so drawn to her. But now four or five years later after she moved back and we've become such close friends, I still can't but help wonder if she has the same feelings for me and if she's the one I'm meant to be with and I can't stop thinking about her and it's almost making me feel insane. And I definitely could use your services.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Esther Perel]

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[Caller]

So since I sent that I did end up telling her how I felt. I guess some context that I didn't put in that recording was that the friend who asked me or said that we couldn't be friends, she was his ex and he still had feelings for her when when he told me that. So like he still had an interest in pursuing her and then when she did move back that kind of he got closure on that and figured out that they weren't ever going to be a thing. So he like eventually moved on but at the same time she moved back and they had their blow up and me and her were becoming friends. I met my ex partner who was my current partner in that recording. After I told my friend how I felt she said that she would keep it between us and that she wouldn't tell her boyfriend because it wouldn't be good for us or the friend group or for my relationship or our friendship. But then she did end up telling him about three or four days later. And she didn't give me any, like, heads up or she didn't talk to me about that at all. And so after he found out, he came and talked to me right away and was very understanding and not, like, confrontational. Was just trying to understand where I was coming from and see my point of view. And then, I mean, after he found out, I felt like I had no choice, but I had to tell my partner, which led to the dissolution of our relationship and. Yeah, dissolution of a lot of things.

[Esther Perel]

What happened when you told her?

[Caller]

I mean, she said she was very shocked and surprised. But, I mean, after I told her, she said that a few days prior she was walking with her boyfriend and had told him, like, I think my friend me really loves me in a not romantic way, but that he does really love me. So she obviously felt that there was, like, a deep connection. But from. Yeah, I mean, when I told her, she said she was shocked.

[Esther Perel]

And it wasn't reciprocated?

[Caller]

No, it wasn't reciprocated. She said she needed some time to process. And then she sent me an email saying that she just saw me as a deep friend. Like, we have a deep friendship and that stops and ends there. She never saw me as anything more than that.

[Esther Perel]

And how did you leave this conversation?

[Caller]

How did I leave it? Well, I was definitely upset. Definitely had anticipated that it probably wasn't mutual, but was like, kind of hoping it was because, I mean, how could you not feel this way about somebody and not hope it's mutual? Especially, like, you know, I was always turning over my head, like, things she would say because, like, we were very close friends. Like, we would tell each other we love each other. And, like, we were very close. Like, we had a lot of emotional intimacy. We talked about everything, our relationship problems, like.

[Esther Perel]

And you're saying all of this in past tense now?

[Caller]

Yes, because, I mean, I'm saying this in past tense because right now we're, like, taking space and not talking. And I guess I have a lot of feelings of betrayal and hurt from her going back on her word of not telling her boyfriend. And I guess, like, one big thing is I want to just figure out how I can get over that so.

[Esther Perel]

Much happened in such a short amount of time. You have your feelings finally expressed. Your girlfriend of five years, that leaves you. This is your group of friends. You may have all kinds of mixed feelings about having finally shared with her. Your heart's aching. It's not reciprocated. You did nothing wrong except maybe being in a relationship with someone that you didn't nearly care about as much as she thought you did. What are the other pieces here?

[Caller]

I guess a key piece of detail is that me and my partner were having our own relationship issues this past summer where she started, like, she always had intuitive doubts about a relationship where she just felt like we weren't meant to be together. And this summer it came back up again. And it was pretty shocking to me because we were talking about having children and getting fertility tested. And when she had those doubts, it really pushed me away. I was like, am I just delaying the inevitable by staying here? Is this, like, not right? Is she just not being assertive enough to, like, follow her intuition? And so that's kind of what started off these feelings for my friend, like, resurfacing. Because I kind of used the idea of being with her as like an escape, I guess, from my own relationship issues, Romanticizing her and putting her on a pedestal instead of just dealing with my own relationship problems. And yeah, I definitely, like, I was hoping after I told her that I could just kind of let go of those feelings and refocus on our relationship, because I did. I do love my ex partner now, and there is a lot I cherished about her and a lot I saw the potential in the future together. I just felt like I had never dealt with those feelings for my friend properly and not like, setting good emotional boundaries or even just figuring out if it was mutual from the get go. So that's some context that was missing that I should have let you know about.

[Esther Perel]

Where are you now?

[Caller]

Where am I now in terms, like, emotionally? Like, in terms of what?

[Esther Perel]

Emotionally? Socially, Existentially. I mean, there's.

[Caller]

Existentially. I'm still living with my. I'm still living with my ex. We're in the process of separating. I'll be moving out by the end of the month. I'll be moving to a different city, back in with my mom for a short period of time until I find my own place. My friend, who I had the feelings for, I'm really close with her family. Like, her brother is one of my best friends. And me and him just had a conversation this past weekend where he was just calling me to try to understand, like, where I'm at, where. Where my feelings are, because he's like, you know, I feel like I'm In a really tough spot. She's my sister, and you're one of my best friends in the world that, like, you know, I just. I can't have you guys not talk or, like, not being on speaking terms because, like, you guys are both too important to me. So I hope you can, like, figure this out. Do whatever you need to do to, like, come to a place where you guys are able to, like, be copacetic. And the friend that asked me to not ever gave an ultimatum saying that we couldn't be friends if I ever hooked up with her. I had a conversation with him right after the whole situation because, like, I mean, the story was going around and it kind of got mixed up. And so I just called him to set things straight. It was a difficult conversation. He just kind of made me feel impulsive and rash and sort of, like, not, like, thinking of the future. And he just made me feel bad about what I did and was laughing a lot during the conversation, which I took kind of personally. So I kind of feel like I've just been taking distance from him because I don't. Yeah, just kind of hurt talking to him about everything. And I don't see him as, like, a good, supportive person to talk to about it. So, yeah, I'm just kind of keeping my space from him. And a lot of the other friends I've talked to about it, they say, like, we don't think of you differently. They've been supportive. So socially it's been good, but mixed. Like, even her partner, me and him have commiserated and, like, grown close. And, like, a lot of the reason why I didn't want to tell her was because I didn't want to impact his mental health negatively because I know he's been struggling recently. And so, like, I feel like I lost him as a friend and her as a friend. And. Yeah, a lot of loss and a lot of change all at once, for sure.

[Esther Perel]

Yes. Yes. A lot of pieces. None of which you thought about before?

[Caller]

I definitely, like, when I was. Because I had thought about it a lot, and I talked to my one friend who is not inside the friend group about, like, all the possibilities of what could happen. I just thought I could trust her enough to be, like. To have. You know, she told me she wasn't going to say anything. I thought that would be the case.

[Esther Perel]

Yes. But you understand that she told him?

[Caller]

Yeah, I understand why she did, because, I mean, even my friend said that if he really. If she really loves him, she would tell him because it's like, it's a really big secret to keep. And if he ever found out later, it would break their trust a lot. Like right after he found out. I wasn't blaming her, I was just blaming myself for telling her, saying, like, you know, it's my fault. I should have not told you. I should have been wiser. I didn't need to put this on you guys. It was a bit unfair of me to put it on you. I just didn't know what else to do with my emotions because I felt like I was becoming obsessive and jealous and it felt like it was going to lead me to do something more rash or. I don't know. I just felt like I was going crazy. Like I wasn't sleeping, like at all. Like I was just unable to sleep. I just didn't know what else to do with the emotions. Maybe I should talk to a therapist or. I don't know.

[Esther Perel]

Tell me more about you and your girlfriend or your ex girlfriend. Because what you've began to say is that you were struggling together and what went on for you. You just thought, this is imperfect, this is clunky. Here is struggle, there is perfection, there is purity. There is.

[Caller]

So we started off polyamorous for about eight months and we decided not to do that anymore because it's too difficult emotionally. And we just found it easier just to focus on each other. We moved in pretty quickly. It was pandemic times. So the kind of COVID advanced all relationships. It seems like we bought a house together, we renovated the whole house together. Like, we have been through a lot. I had a death in the family and parental estrangement. So yeah, we definitely been through a lot. We've worked a lot on a relationship. Saw like a relationship counselor. And we always worked hard at communicating and working on the relationship and planning dates. And we've been very intentional about the relationship. But yeah, there were. There has always been these inklings of doubts within her where she would even some. Like she wrote a broke up letter one time, but then. And left it on the table. But then I just put it away.

[Esther Perel]

And the doubts were about what?

[Caller]

Just that I couldn't love her the way she needed to be. That she just. We weren't meant to be is the best way I could put it.

[Esther Perel]

And this is five years now.

[Caller]

This has been over five years. Yeah, we were together for five and a half years roughly. And then, yeah, this past summer when she was having like doubts again. It wasn't like we were having any major issues.

[Esther Perel]

But when she has doubts, you come closer to her or you start to fantasize about another woman.

[Caller]

I've. I've always, like, pulled her in closer and saying, like, you know, it's just. We're just having a bad day. Let's just work on the relationship. Like, it's. We'll be better tomorrow. Like, every. It's ups and downs. Like, we're gonna, like, you know, you're feeling this way, but then in a couple weeks, you're gonna be, like, feeling a lot better. And. But then this past summer is where kind of shocked me because I was like, where did this come from? Like, she would. We would get in little fights, and it would become like, she would catastrophize and say, like, you know, it's supposed to be easy. Why can't we. Why can't this just be easy? And, you know, we're not meant to be together. And I'm just like. But we're just having a fight. And, like, now you're, like, into the point where you think we're not meant to be together. And so it'd just be really hard, and it would, like, make me doubt the relationship more every time she would do that. And me and my friend were spending a lot more time this summer together, and it was a lot. It was very easy to hang out with her. And, like, we had, like, great camaraderie. And, like, I mentioned a lot of emotional intimacy and obviously without any of the relationship issues, because you don't have the burden of being in a relationship together when you're just friends. So you can romanticize somebody when that happens.

[Esther Perel]

You are in a relationship when you are just friends. But it's a different relationship.

[Caller]

You're right. Yeah, it is very different.

[Esther Perel]

And issues can emerge there, too. But in this instance, you start to have this paradox between. This is complicated. Everything's an issue, and there things flow and they're easy and there is no friction. And then what happens?

[Caller]

You know, after the major issues where we were having, we just kind of kept going forward. I don't think I probably addressed them enough or was honest with myself enough about how much they kind of pushed me away. And the feelings I was repressing for my friend, like, just kept becoming stronger and stronger and to the point where I couldn't not think about them. And they just. I was like, these are a problem. Like, I'm emotionally cheating on my partner by thinking about being with my friend. And, like, I need to do something about this. And so I talked to a few people, and most people didn't know what to do or were like, you're clearly in love with your friend. I think you probably just need to tell her and figure out that it's not mutual so you can like let go of these feelings. And part of me thought about like should I tell my partner first? And then I thought well if I tell my partner first and then it's like jeopardizes that friendship as well and also jeopardizes like a friend group and is going to make it's just that seemed like a much harder approach. Whereas if I could tell my friend and kind of let go of the feelings without having for everyone to find out that it might just be easier that way and less destructive and less hurtful to my partner or ex partner now.

[Esther Perel]

Okay. And none of that actually played out the way you imagined it?

[Caller]

No. No it did not.

[Esther Perel]

Okay, We have to take a brief break so stay with us and let's see where this goes.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Esther Perel]

Support.

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[Esther Perel]

And what is the current situation between you and your girlfriend in the house?

[Caller]

I mean we're amicable, but she's very sad. She's.

[Esther Perel]

And you?

[Caller]

I mean I've at this point I'm just kind of ready to move on and start this next chapter of my life and figure out what my life is going to be like. But I also feel like I haven't fully felt it yet because like I'm still living with her. Like once I'm fully separated it's gonna.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah. And which is the parent? You were estranged from my dad or you still are.

[Caller]

Still are estranged. Correct.

[Esther Perel]

So you're not speaking to your close friend. You broke up with your girlfriend, you're moving out of a house you completely renovated, you're moving back with mom for a while, but you're leaving town where your whole circle of friends actually are. And what is it that you need or ask at this moment? Because that's a lot of change and loss at once.

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess my main thing is just, you know, how do I just let go of these feelings of sort of betrayal and hurt I have towards my friend that I confessed my feelings for. Because I just want us to be in a good place where I don't feel so hurt and I can just kind of be around her and not be resentful and to like, you know, have a good enough relationship where I'm still, you know, because her mom and her brother are like, both important to me, and he's one of my best friends. And I want it to be amicable between all of us. And I still care about her and her partner.

[Esther Perel]

What would it take?

[Caller]

That's a good question.

[Esther Perel]

What is the betrayal? The betrayal is because she said I wouldn't tell, but then of course she told. Is the betrayal the fact that you thought, how can it be that I felt something so strongly and that there was nothing coming back from her in that vein? Is it hurt? Because I feel exposed regardless of what she did. And I feel like I brought my heart to someone, opened up my heart to someone.

[Caller]

Kind of all the above.

[Esther Perel]

That's right.

[Caller]

I mean, definitely. I definitely feel exposed. I feel really exposed. I definitely question my sanity. I'm like, I felt like maybe there was something there. And then, of course, the breaking of the word is a big one because I really trusted her. It's definitely a can of worms.

[Esther Perel]

She may have asked the boyfriend not to come and tell you.

[Caller]

I think she expected him to not say anything.

[Esther Perel]

Everyone here felt the need for the other person to know, but hoped that the other person would not carry the message to the next person.

[Caller]

Right? Yes.

[Esther Perel]

So there's different levels of, if you want to call it betrayal, there's different levels of betrayal, or there's different needs for people to process information that is destabilizing to relationships that are seeking to be anchored. And it's like a bomb was thrown in the middle of the village kind of thing. Everybody thought they knew their place. Everybody thought, who's with who? Everybody thought, what is the hierarchy of loyalty? And suddenly all of that is thrown off it's balance. And you're saying, if I lose her, I lose her mom, I lose her brother, I lose maybe the circle of friends that surround her. I don't want to do that. How do I get over? And you put the betrayal at the top. And I would like to invite you to put the exposure at the top.

[Caller]

Yeah. I think the feeling of embarrassment, of like feeling exposed is definitely part of it. Like, not part of it is one of the bigger pieces.

[Esther Perel]

Right. But the embarrassment is to reveal the secrets of your heart to her. Or the embarrassment is that everybody knows that you were rejected. You know, the embarrassment can be about the public knowledge, the news traveling to the public square.

[Caller]

I think it's more so that. Because I could, if she didn't feel the same way, I was okay with that because I kind of. Part of me was like, ready for that, but I don't think I was ready for everyone to have this situation unfold.

[Esther Perel]

If you wrote her a letter today, having sat with so much of this and had so many sleepless nights, what do you think you would want to say?

[Caller]

I think I would want to say that I just wish I was more honest with myself about my feelings. That she shouldn't blame herself for the situation. Intuitively, part of me still wonders if there was ever any feelings between us.

[Esther Perel]

So. Dear X, I've been sitting with this for weeks trying to sort things out.

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess the letter would have a lot more questions than answers. I would still just have a lot of questions.

[Esther Perel]

Keep going. You may never send it, don't worry. But let's write it.

[Caller]

Of course, I've written a few letters that I've never sent to her already. I care about you implicitly. Yeah, I guess I just always wanted you to be happy. Whether that was with me or somebody else. Any. Even in your partnerships with. I always wanted them to be successful. And I just want you to know I'll always be there for you. I don't know how I could trust her again and be her friend like we were ever again unless I got some sort of reconciliation or acknowledgment or being met at the same level emotionally. Because you're just intellectualizing and rationalizing your actions. I don't feel you are seeing where I'm at in the situation.

[Esther Perel]

And what I want you to see is I came to you with my deepest heartfelt feelings for you and by sharing it, you cheapened it. I know intellectually that that's not the case. I understand, of course, that you would want to tell your partner. But at the same time, because I can have more than one feelings at the same time, I also feel that it's as if my. My love for you is now just commodity that can be passed around in gossip. And maybe even if you had told me it's hard for me to keep this, I will tell it to my partner. I don't foresee any major issue about that. But just so you know, this is not something I can keep for myself. Maybe I would have tried as best I can to convince you not to, but I would have appreciated you telling me. Who knows, I may still be equally hurt and be equally betrayed because I told you not to do it and you went ahead anyway.

[Caller]

Yeah, I definitely feel like people think that I was just trying to like shoot my shot or try to, you know, be with her. And I feel like the main motivation was just trying to release these feelings and have an understanding that it's not mutual so I could let go of them. And so I just feel people are misinterpreting my intentions, which is difficult because it makes me seem like somebody else that I.

[Esther Perel]

Okay, we're getting somewhere. So part of what is so embarrassing for me is that I'm being portrayed, or I think there is a perception of me as a snitch, a snatch person who snatches people. I don't know if it's English, but person who comes to take someone away from another relationship. I thought that if I put my hand on the fire, I will not want to come close to the fire again because I was obsessed. And maybe there's a combination of more than one thing. But what I'm troubled by is that I'm now perceived as someone. Yeah, what did you say? Who wanted to just shoot their shot. And maybe if you had told me that you too had been harboring these deep feelings of love for me, it would have been that. But it's not what I was aware of. But of course we act in part consciously and in another part quite unconsciously. So my question to you before we go on to the next paragraph in the letter is what happens to you when feelings become intense? Because that may have happened other times in your life too. And you don't know where to put them, you don't know how to sort them inside of. You don't know where to store them. And so you go and you do something big, hoping that it will stop the noise.

[Caller]

Yeah, sometimes I can repress my feelings. Whether that's like trauma or feelings of intimacy. Generally I would repress feelings to sort of appease somebody else or to not upset somebody else. So in this case, like I was repressing feelings to appease my friend who still had feelings for her or because I was in a relationship with somebody or. Yeah, generally I think. And then when I repress those feelings, it can either lead to self destructive habits or such as, I mean, seeking validation through. Through women, through sex, through alcohol or marijuana, or just ecstatic experiences like validation just through exterior means. Or I could sometimes channel it into writing or exercise, which is what I've been doing lately. I have not been doing the self destructive route this time.

[Esther Perel]

The reason I ask you this is because the story is so compelling that it feels to you that it has to do with the uniqueness of the story. And what I'm sensing and wondering about is that you feel things sometimes very intensely and that you inflate. It's as if your Feelings take up so much space inside of you and you don't know how to contain them.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was pretty accurate. The feelings I was having for her were definitely something I hadn't felt in a long time.

[Esther Perel]

But you have felt other feelings intensely as well. It's like I'm inviting us to think for a moment about different situations so that you can understand that the form, the pattern is as important as the uniqueness of this situation. It's not even like I decided to go and tell her. I just had to. I couldn't contain it anymore. I had to find out something. I had to make it stop. So I went straight to her because if she wasn't going to reciprocate, then I was going to be deflated.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Host/Announcer]

Like it's this real paradoxical intervention. In order for it to stop, I.

[Esther Perel]

Went to tell the woman that I love, that I love her because I had a sense that maybe she doesn't love me back.

[Host/Announcer]

And therefore it was going to cut.

[Esther Perel]

A different kind of shot.

[Caller]

Yeah, a different kind of shot. A shot to the heart, I guess.

[Esther Perel]

Yeah. An arrow. Yeah. It's a.

[Caller]

A.

[Esther Perel]

It's a form of self harm. It's not just a revelation of your heart. It's also a form of self harm. May be different from weed or drinking or sex, but it is. It's like what? Your entire ecosystem just imploded.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

We are in the midst of our session. There is still so much to talk about. We need to take a brief break, so stay with us.

[Host/Announcer]

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[Caller]

Yeah, I mean if I think of other situations where I felt very intense feelings, it would usually be like anxiety in regards to like the situation I'm thinking about is like when I was working with my dad and working with him was just super toxic and eventually I just couldn't take it anymore. And maybe I get this from him because he just gets really intense and just kind of blows up and it just kind of like leaves shrapnel everywhere and he's like has to pick up the pieces after.

[Esther Perel]

Can I ask you to tell me a little bit more about you and him? It is also where I went by the way.

[Caller]

Him and my mom divorced when I was four. He was always just very focused on his business. He was not very attentive as a dad. His way of showing his love was kind of just by supporting us financially. But even then he was like, had gone bankrupt and was very struggling financially and like wouldn't and that would be the one to refuse the child support checks. Be like, you can't even afford to eat. Like, you know, we don't need it, we're fine. And you know, coming between him and my mom is like, she'd be upset. She's like why didn't you take the check? And. And I was definitely manipulated by him a lot as a kid. And I, like, come to learn that, like, he was very much a narcissist and an unhealthy person that I just don't want to be around. He doesn't. We tried to do family therapy. We did, like, one session together. And it was very interesting during the session, like, watching the therapist do all the work I used to do of, like, just trying to get him to focus in on, like, apologizing for this thing. And he would always, like, go on tangents and, like, be talking his way around it. And. And it was like, oh, wow. This is all the emotional work I used to do when I had to try to interact with them. And after that one session, he's like, I don't want to do it. You can't force me to do it. And so we just weren't talking. And then eventually, like, I saw that he was selling his house, and I started thinking about it, and I was like, okay, I should reach out. And I reached out, and he's like, we don't need to do family therapy. And I'm like, look, I need this for me. Like, I won't be able. I don't want to engage with you unless we do this first. And so we had booked it, and then, of course, he had forgot. I even reminded him the day before, and then he blamed his assistant, and he couldn't make it, so we rescheduled. And the second time, I forgot to confirm with the therapist, so that was my fault. And then the third time, the therapist totally forgot and didn't make it, so I'm like. I feel like this is the universe trying to tell me something. I don't think, like, any.

[Esther Perel]

He.

[Caller]

A comedy of errors. Yes. And he. My. My dad even said. He's like, okay, I'll leave it to you to, like, rebook it and do all that work. And when he said that, it just kind of irked me, and I'm like, let's leave it to me. Like, is this. You don't care about this relationship? You're not even gonna try? So I just was like, after three times, I'm like, if he's not even gonna try, I'm just like, forget it. I'm not even gonna continue. Because, yeah, he doesn't ever call or ever make an effort to connect.

[Esther Perel]

But what you were starting to describe as, well, this is very sad. I'm shaking my head, but I want to say it too. It's really, because you kind of have another very important relationship where you're trying to say to someone, I care deeply about you, and it doesn't feel to you that it's coming back. And you probably have promised yourself a thousand times, I will never be like this guy. But sometimes things. Your own emotional life becomes so intense and it feels unmanageable and disregulated that you. You burst. You don't burst aggressively or things like that, but you burst. As in it leaks out of you without thinking how it will affect you or the people around you. And it just. The need for it to come out is bigger than anything else. And you've watched this many times. It's not a behavior you don't know. You've been on the receiving end of that. And the reason I bring it up is because there's nothing identical here except the form. But it will help you understand her a little bit better, and it will help you hopefully see the whole picture and not just, if she hadn't done this, none of this would be happening.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I can get over the fact that she told her partner and that it all came out. It's just. I guess I just, like, will feel very ashamed at, like, I don't know, just seeing them again and, like, being in their presence. It's gonna be like, oh, man, I'm such an idiot. Or this is gonna. I'm gonna just feel very exposed and.

[Esther Perel]

Like, yeah, you probably. You will be a little bit. You will be. Because you poured your heart out, but you didn't do anything. I mean, it's not like you exposed the fact that you realized that she was more than a friend to you, or so you think. And now you know your place. It's one thing to say, I don't know if I can be in your presence because I want something very different. And every time I'm next to you, my heart aches. That's not the same as I'm next to you. And to use the word that you used for your dad, it's less about how you're not reciprocated. My feelings, and more about the narcissistic injury. I feel like the fool. Love is foolish sometimes. It's impetuous. It's insubordinate. It doesn't always follow the laws of good citizenship.

[Caller]

No, it does not.

[Esther Perel]

There's nothing in that to be embarrassed about. It's just. I was confused. Things were not sitting clear. But this thing, it will pass. It will become metabolized, and it will become Absorbed. But the embarrassment that took you can. That is a relationship that you can negotiate for yourself. There's nobody embarrassing you.

[Caller]

Right. Yeah. It's really just my perception of what people are thinking.

[Esther Perel]

Right. And when you ask them, they're telling you it's okay. I mean, nobody's spending nearly as much time thinking about this as you.

[Caller]

No, definitely not. My life just hasn't been very settled right now. So once it starts settling and actually be able to sit with it more and metabolize it, as you say, are.

[Esther Perel]

You angry at yourself? Do you feel like you created this?

[Caller]

I mean, am I angry at myself? I think I was at some points, but I think it kind of needed to happen.

[Esther Perel]

Okay, what does that mean? You needed to implode the whole thing?

[Caller]

No, I think I needed to be honest about what I was feeling for her because, I mean, if I had those feelings for her for so long, I was not really being honest to my partner, my ex, or to her as a friend or to her, like. Yeah, to. Yeah. I was just hiding from those feelings.

[Esther Perel]

But, you know, I will ask you something for you to think about. This is six years. These feelings didn't occur yesterday.

[Caller]

No.

[Esther Perel]

Explain to me what you do for six years with this person. It's not that they suddenly became so intense and so uncontainable and so unmanageable. There's something in the sequencing that is curious to me.

[Caller]

I guess the feelings for her would ebb and flow sometimes, you know, when my relationship with my partner was good or I wasn't seeing my friend as much, they weren't as strong. But then I guess this past summer, when she was having relationship issues and I was having relationship issues, and we were hanging out more, and it was. We were just having a. Like. Yeah, it just felt really good to be around her. And one time I was driving her back to her place, I did, like, grab her leg and tell her, like, you know, I really love you. And she kind of, you know, was just, like, looking away, like, with her hand near her mouth. And she's like, yeah, I know. I love you, too. She seemed a bit uncomfortable, but she's like, what? You know, like, you seem to be feeling really good. And I'm like, yeah, I just feel really great hanging out with you guys is. You guys are a great group of friends. And so, I don't know. I don't know why I just got so intense this summer. Maybe it was just seeing her more. And.

[Esther Perel]

The letters that you have written, you've written them in the recent Weeks or before?

[Caller]

The recent weeks? Yeah. I was just processing my pain and betrayal and different feelings I was feeling.

[Esther Perel]

But you haven't sent any?

[Caller]

No.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Good.

[Caller]

No, I didn't send any.

[Esther Perel]

So you have a few more to write. You write by hand or you type?

[Caller]

Type. Should I write by hand? Is that better to write by hand?

[Esther Perel]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Esther Perel]

There's something about feelings coming through our hands and then throw away if you want to. Can make a picture before, but throw them away. Have a ritual around those letters that allow you to express in the full sense of the word express. Push out, articulate and push out. And then you'll have maybe at some point the letter that you actually want to send.

[Caller]

How do you think I would just like. No, it's the letter I want to.

[Esther Perel]

Send because it won't just be one in one which you expel and expunge and just spit out. It won't have the same impulsivity to. Will be quieter, it will be calmer, it will be more reciprocal. It won't just be what I feel. What I feel, what I feel. It will also be what you mean to me, what this relationship means to me, what your family means to me, and what I hope to bring to you. That sometimes when people have intimate, deep, intimate conversations that are deeply revelatory, it elicits feelings of love. And sometimes we start to think, you wouldn't tell me this if you didn't feel this for me. Even though she's never given you any sign that it was reciprocated, but that, you know, you knew that in advance. In fact, you went. Not because you hoped she would say, me too. You went because you hoped she would say something that would make this stop.

[Caller]

I mean, there was. There was a small hope that.

[Esther Perel]

Of course, of course, of course. Of course you have a small. I mean, but that's. That's not that. That wasn't the thing that made it impulsive and a route that you can't come back from. So that's how you know. You know it's the letter to send. When it becomes a letter that involves two people and not just one person reacting to another. When it involves the ability to see the predicament she was in as much as your predicament. When it takes into account time, six years, what we've experienced together, who we are to each other, when it takes into account the fact that we can overcome this. This may have thrown a wrench into our friendship, but I hope that we can both understand that. And of course that will change when you fall in love with another person and you have someone that gets your heart, that will be easier than now. Is this helpful?

[Caller]

It has been helpful. Yeah. I think thinking about trying to imagine writing that letter that you're speaking of of like seeing it both ways and having that ritual around that, I think that will be very helpful for me. And yeah, I mean, yeah, realizing that it was kind of a bit self harming to go and express these feelings. Sort of like I couldn't contain them.

[Esther Perel]

I don't think you did this consciously and intentionally, but it was. So there's no good way to end this except in the middle of a sentence.

[Caller]

True. Well, I've got a lot from this. Thank you so much, Esther.

[Esther Perel]

Thank you. Bye. Bye.

[Caller]

Bye.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This was an Esther calling a one time intervention phone call recorded remotely from two points somewhere in the world. If you have a question you'd like to explore with Estaire that could be answered in a 40 or 50 minute phone call, send her a voice message and Esther might just call you. Send your question to producerteraparell.com where should we begin with Esther Perel is produced by Magnificent Noise. We're part of the Vox Media podcast network in partnership with New York magazine and the Cut. Our production staff includes Eric Newsom, Destry Sibley, Sabrina Farhi, Kristen Muller and Julian at Original music and additional production by Paul Schneider. And the executive producers of where should we begin are Esther Perel and Jesse Baker. We'd also like to thank Courtney Hamilton, Mary Alice Miller and Jack Saul.

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