Even though their stories happened decades apart, Dr. William Pannell and Dr. Jemar Tisby’s church experiences start off in a very similar place. Growing up in their beloved Midwest communities, they both experienced a polite ignorance that worked to keep them “in their place” among their classmates and church family. They knew there was something deeply wrong, but there wasn’t the language or space to speak about it. Using their distinct voices and ministries, they’ve finally broken the silence. Listen as Dr. Pannell and Tisby share their expertise on changing culture and developing language to foster wholeness in their brothers and sisters in Christ.

Guest Bios:

Dr. William Pannell was professor emeritus of preaching at Fuller Seminary, where he taught from 1974 until his retirement in 2014. Fuller recognized his service to the school and the whole church with the January 2015 renaming and dedication of the William E. Pannell Center for African American Church Studies. Previously serving in leadership roles with Youth for Christ and Tom Skinner Associates, his books include My Friend, the Enemy; Evangelism from the Bottom Up; and The Coming Race Wars: A Cry for Reconciliation, recently expanded. Dr. Pannell passed away on October 11th, 2024.

Dr. Jemar Tisby is a public historian, national speaker, and author of the New York Times bestselling book The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church's Complicity in Racism. His writing has been featured on CNN, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and The New York Times. He is the founder and former president of The Witness—a Black Christian Collective and the cohost of the Pass the Mic podcast. He has recently received his PhD in history at the University of Mississippi.

Notes & Quotes:

“Whatever experience we go through, the Holy Spirit understands it all. He's been there before. Ours is not all that unique in history, for crying out loud. It's our story, and it's the only one we have, but God's been working on this for a long time.”
“I'm sitting there as a follower of Jesus, saying, ‘Well, if I'm supposed to love my neighbor, then what does that look like in this context? And where do I get the tools to understand this theologically and take action?’”
“Where love is the beating heart of justice, I always say we have to have a priestly proximity to people, particularly suffering people, because that breeds empathy, and empathy births love.”

Links Mentioned:

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Check out Dr. Tisby’s book, How to Fight Racism.
Get your copy of Dr. Pannell’s book, The Coming Race Wars.
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Verses Mentioned:

Mark 12:31
Ephesians
Colossians
Proverbs 27:17

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