Podcast Summary

Which Side of History? — Superpower Suicide: Global Impact of U.S. Policy Changes

Host: Jim Steyer (Common Sense Media Founder, Stanford Professor)
Date: January 22, 2026
Featured Guests:

• Susan Rice: Former U.S. National Security Advisor & U.N. Ambassador
• Michael McFaul: Stanford Professor, Former U.S. Ambassador to Russia
• Margrethe Vestager: Former EU Commissioner for Competition & Exec Vice President

Episode Overview

This episode explores the dramatic shift in the United States' global role over the past year, analyzing the ripple effects worldwide. With three influential guests, the discussion covers the shrinking of American influence (dubbed “superpower suicide”), the escalating crisis for global democracy, the U.S. withdrawal from international leadership, the dangers posed by rising autocracy, and the urgent need for civic action and revitalized democratic values both at home and abroad.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Retreat of U.S. Leadership and “Superpower Suicide”

[02:10] Susan Rice:

• The “state of global democracy is under extreme duress,” with a broad backsliding into nationalism and authoritarianism.
• The U.S. is now “shrinking and ceding huge parts of the playing field to historic adversaries like Russia and China.”
  [11:13] Quote:

"I think we are in the process of witnessing superpower suicide. I say that because we are unilaterally disarming from our greatest strengths."
(Susan Rice, 11:13)

• Specific rollbacks: abrupt closure of USAID, withdrawal from the UN and global agreements, and abandonment of traditional alliances.
• Internally, domestic policies are “taking us back to the 19th century,” including anti-immigrant measures and attacks on the rule of law and educational systems.

2. Global Democratic Backslide & Rise of Autocracy

[03:27] Michael McFaul:

• Freedom House data confirms a “19-year democratic recession” globally and an “11-year decline” in the U.S.

• Three key dynamics:

  1. Rise of autocracies with China and Russia pushing illiberal, authoritarian models.
  2. Once-democratic nations—like Russia and Turkey—fundamentally flipped to autocracy.
  3. The U.S. retreat:

     "What is most threatening to small 'd' democracy is what's happening in the United States... President Trump doesn’t frame the world as a battle between autocrats and democrats—it’s strong leaders vs. weak leaders.”
     (Michael McFaul, 05:30)

• Democracy-vs-autocracy is now a struggle within societies, not just between countries.

[06:41] Margrethe Vestager:

• The UN’s inability to adapt: "We’ve gone from stable disorder to global disorder, which is accelerating and unpredictable."
• Human rights regressions are a major warning sign.

Call to Action:

“This is a call to revitalize the fundamentals of democracy—respect for the integrity of every individual. If ever there was an important point to get active, this is now.”
(Margrethe Vestager, 08:00)

3. The Impact of U.S. Policy Reversals—Hard/Soft Power Vacuum

[09:13] Vestager:

• Closure of USAID had catastrophic on-the-ground effects: "Drugs expiring on shelves, food rotting in storage... the HIV epidemic risk returning."
• The rule of law and multilateralism—long-term strengths—have been sacrificed for a "muscle through" approach.
• Global trust in the U.S. is profoundly shaken.

4. Vacuum Filled by Rival Powers

[16:29] McFaul:

• "China is not withdrawing; they’re filling the space. Belt and Road continues while the U.S. pulls out."
• Russia Today gets more money as the US cuts VOA.
• China creates new multilateral institutions while holding onto old ones.

“Just because we leave doesn’t mean they’re leaving.” (Michael McFaul, 18:00)

5. Can the Democratic System Bounce Back? Historic Context & Hope

[20:30] McFaul:

• Cautiously optimistic:

“There’s hope. It was darker in the 1930s, and the late ‘60s, early ‘70s weren’t great either. But we recovered... I don’t think [Trump and allies] have the electoral mandate or the means to do all the crazy things they’re promising.”
(Michael McFaul, 21:05)

• Majority of Americans support Ukraine and see Putin as a threat.

[23:40] Vestager:

• Highlights the necessity of activism and effort, not just relying on hope:

“No improvement will materialize by itself... It’s going to take effort, activism, and disagreement—the basics of democracy.”
(Margrethe Vestager, 24:01)

6. Ukraine and the Ethics of U.S. Foreign Policy

[25:55] Steyer, [26:27] Rice:

• Discussion shifts to the “clown show” of current U.S. negotiation on Ukraine, focusing on personal gain and appeasing autocrats.
• Witkoff anecdote:
  • Susan Rice recounts how chief negotiator Witkoff mistook her for Condi Rice and casually divulged sensitive diplomatic details.

“He thinks I’m Condi. That’s so funny... But he’s the first senior American official who’s made that mistake while supposed to be a global negotiator.”
(Susan Rice, 26:43)

• The current administration’s priorities: power, money, and strongmen relationships, not U.S. or allied interests.

[30:58] McFaul:

• Outlines the standard for evaluating foreign policy: security, prosperity, values.
  • Finds no evidence these have advanced in current Russia/Ukraine dealings.
  • Danger: Engagements seem motivated by personal, not national, interests.

“If that’s true... that should be deeply disturbing to all Americans.”
(Michael McFaul, 35:58)

7. European Perspective on U.S. Withdrawal

[38:28] Vestager:

• The war in Ukraine is existential for Europe.
• U.S. betrayal—abandoning soft power and military guarantees—forces Europe to reconsider dependencies (energy, security, technology).

“If you’re a self-interested nation state that was or is an American ally, you’d be foolish, foolish to put your eggs in the American basket.”
(Susan Rice, 51:56)

8. Consequences for America’s Reputation and Alliances

[50:57] Rice:

• Emphasizes the “lasting stain” and broken trust, especially with allies like Canada and Europe.
  • Canada now sees the U.S. as a bigger threat than China.

“Trust is something you cannot pay for and you cannot easily reclaim once it’s lost. And that’s what we have sacrificed.”
(Susan Rice, 54:20)

9. No Going Back: The Shape of the New World Order

[55:08] Vestager:

• The world won’t revert to previous arrangements, even if U.S. policy changes again—Europe and others are now building new alliances, diversifying, adapting.

[57:12] McFaul:

• "Analytically, there’s no going back... Normatively, I disagree that the U.S. can't return to leadership. It’ll be a fight, but it's still possible."

[60:12] McFaul:

• Outlines why the democratic “team” (if united) is still much stronger than the autocratic one in military, economic, and ideational power.

“If we are together, the democrats are in much better shape than the autocrats. As long as we get the United States back on the democratic side.”
(Michael McFaul, 61:42)

10. Restoring Agency, Combating Polarization, and the Role of Technology

[63:09] Vestager:

• Most people “are in the colorful everything in the middle...we can turn more gray or more white depending on our own choices.”
• The current era’s polarization is not inevitable but the result of manipulation and loss of common ground and agency.

11. The Digital Revolution and Democracy

[65:38] Vestager:

• Social media and tech addiction, driven by corporate greed, are core factors in societal division.

“Social platforms should be safe to use—for your mental health, and for your democracy... Imagine what social media could be if it actually was supporting communities and not dividing them.”
(Margrethe Vestager, 69:00)

• Explains Europe’s efforts to regulate tech giants (Digital Services Act, Digital Markets Act, AI Act) to restore safety, competition, and democratic resilience.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think we are in the process of witnessing superpower suicide.”
  — Susan Rice [11:13]
• “Just because we leave doesn’t mean they’re leaving.” (re: China/Russia filling the power vacuum)
  — Michael McFaul [18:00]
• "There is hope…but no improvement will materialize by itself. It’s going to take effort."
  — Margrethe Vestager [24:01]
• “You’d be foolish to put your eggs in the American basket.”
  — Susan Rice [51:56]
• "If we are together, the democrats are in much better shape than the autocrats."
  — Michael McFaul [61:42]
• "Social platforms should be safe to use—for your mental health and for your democracy."
  — Margrethe Vestager [69:00]

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:10: State of global democracy (Rice’s initial diagnosis)
• 03:27: Global democratic decline by the numbers (McFaul)
• 06:41: UN and multilateral system under strain (Vestager)
• 11:13: U.S. “superpower suicide” and global consequences (Rice)
• 16:29: China and Russia filling U.S. vacuum (McFaul)
• 20:30: Historical context and hope for democracy (McFaul)
• 26:43: Diplomatic anecdote—Witkoff misidentifies Rice (Rice)
• 35:58: Corruption concerns in U.S. Ukraine dealings (McFaul)
• 38:28: How Europe sees the crisis—and its existential stakes (Vestager)
• 50:57: Lasting stain on U.S. credibility (Rice)
• 55:08: Why the old world order isn’t coming back (Vestager)
• 60:12: Why democratic alliances can still win (McFaul)
• 63:09: The majority of humanity is not polarized—agency and hope (Vestager)
• 65:38: Tech and the crisis of democracy; European regulatory approach (Vestager)

Closing Reflections

• All speakers agree: The threatened values of liberal democracy and international cooperation can only be preserved with sustained activism, open debate, and institutional resilience.
• U.S. withdrawal and internal democratic decline have gravely damaged its alliances and global standing, but “there is hope”—provided that citizens everywhere rise to the occasion.

For listeners seeking deep insight on the intersection of U.S. policy, the global democratic recession, technology’s role in polarization, and the evolving new world order, this is a must-hear discussion.