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- [00:20]
A
This is White Centipede Noise Podcast. I'm Oscar Brummel and today my guest is Max Eastman of Tribe Tapes, a label started in 2019 with a focus on reissuing obscure cassette culture releases from the 80s and 90s, as well as releasing work from modern artists that carry the same spirit. Max records noise under his own name, as well as Tantric Death and a number of other collaborative projects. He'll be on tour in Finland this November, playing Helsinki November 6, Tampere November 8 and Turku November 9. This is part one of the interview with Max. To watch or listen to the full episode, go to patreon.com whitecentipedenoise for premium Patreon subscribers.
- [00:56]
B
There's also a zip file of Audrey.
- [00:58]
A
Audiovisual ephemera that Max put together for you to download.
- [01:07]
B
All right.
- [01:07]
A
Hello, Max.
- [01:08]
B
Welcome to White Centipede Noise Podcast.
- [01:10]
C
Hey, great to be here.
- [01:11]
B
Why don't I let you introduce yourself instead of me introducing you? I've already done the most obvious, but give us a brief introduction to who you are and what you do.
- [01:21]
C
My name's Max Julian Eastman. For the past few years I've been running Tribe Tapes record label. No longer focused on just cassettes, but with one foot set firmly in the past, so to speak. Lots of 80s 90s era cassette reissues onto CD, along with a sampling of what I feel is the best of today's noise. I also record under a plethora of pseudonyms, most notably under my own name. I also record as Tantric Death and have numerous collaboration projects of other people in the same.
- [02:00]
B
Nice. Well, well spoken. So, yeah, when I first came into contact with you was. Yeah, just a couple of years ago when I was really heavy with the distro. And I don't remember how if I reached out to you or you reached out to me, but at some point I noticed some pretty interesting stuff coming out of your. Your label, Tribe Tapes. And, you know, after I picked up the first batch of whatever it was, then kind of consistently was looking for stuff you were putting out because I realized you're putting out some really great stuff and, and, and you also sent me a triple tape release of your own solo work. That was really good. I was, I really liked that. I was, you know, I was impressed by that kind of out of nowhere. I didn't, you know, I wasn't familiar with Tantric Death. I think I'd seen that name around before, but, but yeah, I mean, so I, so I liked that. And then I, and since then I've you know, Tribe Tapes has really kind of taken over and done a lot of really cool things with, like you mentioned the. The reissues of. Of rather obscure 80s and 90s noise and industrial. So tell me about the kind of the evolution of the label itself, because I was looking back through your discography earlier today, before we started, and there was in the early days, kind of a different focus, it seemed, on different types of noise or maybe just a wider range. And at some point it kind of like fell into its own, I feel. Is that accurate? And tell me about how it kind of went from the beginning to where it's at now.
- [03:50]
C
I'd say that's a fair statement. I kind of look at tribe as having two different eras, so to speak. Maybe pre2021, 2022. I didn't really have a focus in mind on the label when I started in 2019. It was initially just a vessel to release my own tapes. I was performing under the name Great Humor at the time, but I always had an interest in cassette culture. Soon after that, I put together the first comp, Tribe Tapes, Volume 1, and began commissioning releases from a few different select artists. And in early 2020, I started a network of a lot more people, pretty much anyone who wanted to do a release of me at that point, you know, if I felt it was decent enough, I'd put it out. But in the past few years especially, and as I started to focus more on CDs, you know, when you're doing tapes back then in 2019, 2020, it was only editions of 2025 copies. I think the most I did at that time was 50, which is for that very first compilation. And those took ages to move at that point. But when I moved into doing CD releases more. When you're dealing with editions of 200 or 300, you have to be more purposeful of what you're choosing. And that's more so where the focus on cassette culture and a handful of contemporary harsh noise artists come from.
- [05:21]
B
What was it that, you know, really triggered your interest in this cassette culture era, 80s 90s stuff, was that something you got into right away when you were kind of like discovering noise? Or was that something that came a little bit later?
- [05:41]
C
And say, when I really got into cassette culture,'80s-90s angle of it all was when I was in college, I had a lot of time in between my studies, so I would do a lot of reading online and that would take me to a lot of these old blog spot pages like Tape Attack, Die or diy no longer Forgotten music. And they would just have thousands upon thousands of these old school tape rips. And a lot of these are artists that I'd never heard of before, weren't really discussed in the canon of harsh noise at all. But I guess to answer your question more specifically, there is definitely a period of separation. You know, I was getting into Harsh noise when I was in high school. I knew about Mersbowl, Wolfeyes, that really surface level stuff. But I feel like it was what I started discovering, that 80s and 90s era. But I started forging a more personal connection to it. You know, at that point when I was just listening to Mursbao or Wolf Eyes on my ipod or whatever, it seemed very much like a separate league from what I was in. It felt like something I couldn't really be part of myself. Even though those guys got started in the tape trading mail Art network themselves. When I discovered the cassette culture movement, that kind of invigorated this feeling I had that I could become part of something.
- [07:08]
B
At what point did you start getting in touch with people? Because that's an interesting. You know, you're working with a lot of artists that are quite a bit older, I would assume. I don't know how old you are exactly, but I would assume you're not of that generation. And you were discovering it through, you know, these blogs, these MP3 blogs. So you're, you know, a generation or two younger than these artists, but you felt a certain kinship with them, right?
- [07:30]
C
Yes, yes, I suppose when I first made contact with some of these, some of these more historic cassette artists around 2019, around the time I was first starting the label, I got in touch with Hal McGee. I was just doing some research, research on him. Very prolific noise artist Dog is Master Cause and Effect Tapes. And I found out that the zine that he was running in the late 80s and early 90s electronic cottage, was alive in the present day as a webpage in a Facebook group. So I ended up sending Hal an email asking if I could join the little community that he was cultivating with open arms. He let me in. There's a lot of old school cassette culture greats in there. Hal, of course, Chris Phinney, mental Anguish, Leslie Singer, Al Margolis, Jen, Ken. And from pretty much the second I was put in the group, Hal gave me an introduction. So a lot of these people were knocking at my door saying, hey, I'm so and so, nice to meet you. And that kind of opened the door for me to introduce myself and say what I do Have a label and propose the opportunity. Hey, would you like to submit a compilation track or something?
- [08:46]
B
Yeah. Were you like, the young guy in the group?
- [08:50]
C
There are a couple other younger guys, but the majority, yes. I probably say, like three or four other people in my age range.
- [08:57]
B
Did you feel. Did you. Did you know their. Their history and legacy? Did you feel like there was some sort of, I don't know, something to revere there or something to kind of research beforehand, or was it kind of just like going into it, like, with. With peers or. You know what I mean?
- [09:17]
C
There are a few names I wasn't familiar with before in the group, but majority of them, I'd been familiar with their cassettes beforehand. So it was kind of a fanboy moment for me not to overwhelm them and be like, oh my God, I love this tape you recorded in 1983. Could you tell me how you got this sound or that sound? So I was very excited, but understandably, I reeled my enthusiasm in a little bit.
- [09:43]
B
I mean, that was the great thing about that era. I think of the Internet. It's almost gone again. You know, like, we're still very online, but that time in the Internet where you could really just find stuff, and it was really kind of wild west. It's kind of over. I mean, I don't know if Soul Seek is still popping like it used to be or. But blogs are kind of a thing of the past. At what point did you kind of go from downloading it and just kind of like discovering online? Did you. Did you start at some point, really collecting the. The physical items?
- [10:19]
C
So it was a few years before I started Tribe. Shortly after I got into that deep end of blog spot and crate digging that I started collecting tapes on my own. There are a few cassettes, you know, that I found on these blogs that I really, really wanted. Had no idea how rare any of this stuff was at the time. So if something came up on Discogs for a somewhat reasonable price, I'd usually snap it up. And this is probably about seven or eight years ago when I started collecting really avidly. It was a lot easier to get stuff back then. I feel like since COVID the secondhand market has skyrocketed a lot. You know, tapes that he used to be able to get for 15, $20 about a decade ago sometimes go for over a hundred. Now there's plenty of cassettes in my collection have skyrocketed almost 200, $300, which is. Which is insane to me. But, you know, for a lot of Other people I know that's a pretty average spending weekend.
- [11:22]
B
I mean, do you feel like you brought some of these artists out of kind of obscurity or retirement with, you know, going. We're kind of jumping forward a little bit, but we're going to stay where we're at. But like, you know, you've done a lot of reissues of. Of stuff on Tribe that, you know, I've never heard of. I'm not the biggest historic head of old stuff, but I've seen a lot of names on your label that I'm like, what is this? And then I, you know, read the description. It's like, oh, you know, like obscure tape from, you know, Michigan from 1988. And I'm just like, I've never heard of this. And do you feel like that involvement, whether it's just your involvement with them or just the time maybe that that has passed, not you alone, but just everything that's gone, gone on. Do you think those, some of those artists have kind of come out of obscurity in the last few years and gained a wider appreciation for following?
- [12:16]
C
For sure. I think the past 10, 15 years or so. I think what really struck a nerve of a lot of cassette culture artists and made them want to get their stuff back out there are the reissues that started coming out from labels like Vinyl On Demand, where people were getting these really fancy box set treatments. I feel like for a lot of the cassette culture heads, it kind of felt like, well, when's it going to be my day in the sun? So when they're finally getting emails from someone like me 30, 40 years after they've recorded these tapes and no one's really talking to them about them anymore, they're usually very excited to get this material out into the open again. And I do think in a lot of cases the reissues do help a reevaluation of these artists. Randy Greef is another person who's very acclaimed among cassette culture aficionados. He considered to be one of the best composers of that era. But among contemporary noise heads, he's not really as well known. So it's been very, very nice for me to see the attention he's gotten since I've done. I think we're up to three reissues now. I even went on Special interest the other day and I saw a dedicated Fred for Randy Grief, which, which put a smile on my face to see it being discussed in such a predominantly noise focused place. And, you know, I'll make the distinction that even though Randy Grief, for instance. And a lot of these 80s artists are very musical. I still regard them to be noise artists. Instead of making noise with super distorted process sounds, they're, they're more so making noise with layering sounds, real world sounds, and using those to make a cacophony.
- [14:01]
B
Yeah, that's a good point. I think about that a lot too. Like, you know, I kind of try to like analyze or break down what is noise, what is harsh noise exactly. Kind of define it in some way in my mind. And you know, I do define it as something that's like a cacophony. And I've kind of thought sometimes it's. Well, it's just distortion. It's pure like white noise in different, you know, filterings. But actually no it's not. It's like you can create a very. You create noise by taking, you know, a piece of a song, a pop song and layering it over itself a hundred times. Just the, the layering and the repetition in a kind of non patterned way also makes noise with, you know, zero type of distortion or white noise, you know, injection. And I think that, yeah, you're right, that, that is a lot. Something predominantly used in a lot of that older stuff. It wasn't relying on the, the blown out sound all the time.
- [15:03]
C
Yeah, definitely.
- [15:23]
A
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- [15:57]
B
What is it about old noise that you love so much? Because you're not the only one who kind of puts, I mean people, people tend to put, you know, noise from the 90s or the 80s or whatever kind of on a pedestal. And you know, I sometimes have mixed feelings about that when people are like, oh, you know, everything new sucks. It's only about, you know, like the, the old stuff is the only thing that, that, that really captured that spirit of noise or whatever. And it's. Everything's dead now. But you know, there is something to be said obviously for, for there was. There's something different about it. What is it about older noise, different eras, bygone eras of yore that you really appreciate or that you find special.
- [16:42]
C
There's. There's a lot of things. I guess one of them. The first that pops into my head is. Is the simplicity of it. The limitations that people had in the 80s and 90s recording onto four tracks. Unless they are willing to take the time to bounce some of those tracks down and expand on them further. It kind of kept artists in a box, so to speak. But that box also inspired them to be as creative as they possibly could be within those limitations. It's kind of a different perspective now when people just record line in into Audacity, where the sky's pretty much the limit. And with enough creativity in the cassette days, obviously you could still do anything you wanted. But I feel like that very basic setup of having four tracks in front of you, record one or two at a time and then arm the next ones. That's a very. It's a very methodical style. But I think inspired a lot of people to push the limits of that format and expanding on that, too. Another thing that really endears me to that era is the unpretentiousness of it. People weren't creating these tapes to become well known. They weren't doing it for clout. Many times people created tapes because they wanted to trade tapes of other people. They didn't have any tapes to trade. The very first Sound of Pig compilation, for instance. Slave Ant Raid came from that purpose. Exactly. Al Margolis was buying a ton of tapes in the early 80s. I decided, hey, it would be a little bit better on my wallet if I had something to trade with people. So he recorded his first works as if B got a whole bunch of people, half Japanese. Leslie Singer, to contribute to that first compilation. Anyways, it's. Yeah, it's just the mail art, the communication parts of it that endear me so much to it as well. Which is something I feel is very lacking in today's day and age. I feel like some artists, not really anyone in particular, but really just want to get their material out there so other people will hear it and think of them as an artist. People are always trying to make definitive statements, trying to push the boundaries of noise. You should just create tapes that you find interesting and entertaining. And trade them with people that would care about them.
- [19:08]
B
I think that's a good point also, is that there. There's sort of a frustration nowadays. I think I hear when I talk to noise artists, most often newer noise artists. But even some people have been doing it for a while. They're like, you know, frustrated that their stuff hasn't sold out or that it's, you know, not being hyped up and, you know, kind of this how. Why does it work for them and not for me? And, and I think that's important to remember that. Yeah, it wasn't always like that, probably. I imagine back then that back then it wasn't about like, oh, who can, you know, have the hottest, most discussed tape that can sell out the quickest. It was more just like the networking, the sharing, the trading, you know, of ideas.
- [20:00]
C
I think the instant gratification principle of the Internet has spoiled us a little bit. Where we're so accustomed, getting instant feedback on things we put out in social media. For instance, you know, you make a post, you'll start getting likes within a minute. So a lot of people tend to apply that same attitude towards their, their musical releases where they wonder, why am I not getting that instant feedback that I want? But instead of trying to get credibility or recognition from mass horror hordes of people, you really need to establish your relationships of just a few people you connect with on a creative level and trade with them. Those are the people who want to hear your work. Don't waste your time sending promos out to people that you think are a big deal just because you want them to hear your work. Stick with the people who care about what you do.
- [20:54]
B
Do you feel like a lot of these people that you've come in contact with, these really more obscure artists from the 80s and 90s tape culture, did they realize that they were doing something at the time that would be appreciated, remembered, listened to, cared about 20, 30, 40, 50 years later?
- [21:10]
C
Not at all. Usually the first reply I get back from them is, I'm surprised anybody's still listening to that.
- [21:17]
B
And you know, I think conversely, it's, it's to the last point you made.
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A
It's also good to remember when people.
- [21:23]
B
Do make something they think is, you know, something they're proud of or something they, they, they like, something they think is good to also think longer term than just this moment. Why aren't I getting, you know, recognition or sales right now? Because I think a lot of this stuff, and I think also that's, that is the shame that some stuff gets, you know, nowadays even released in additions of 50 or small editions and maybe sells out quickly or dozens. People like, oh, why is my five, my 50s copies sold? Because, you know, like, we see constantly that 30, 40, 50 years later. I mean, we're not at 50 years yet, but I mean, like we're, we're crazy about stuff that came out 20, 30, 40 years ago that at the time, you know, no one didn't think it would need that kind of long term life. And, and think about when you release something now. If you release a new tape that you think is good, just don't be frustrated if it doesn't sell out now because some, you know, in 50 years, 300 copies is nothing, you know.
- [22:31]
C
Yeah, that's incredibly true. Things that feel like they don't really make an impact now could very well be reevaluated the same way we're looking at these older releases 20 years, 30 years from now. So even if you're, even if your self defined magnum opus doesn't sell out instantly right away, give it or give it 20 or 30 years, I'm sure somebody's going to be digging it up.
- [22:54]
B
To be fair, we are a totally different, you know, technological time. And, and with that comes, I mean, objectively, there's a huge, huge over saturation of, of noise being produced. I mean, I, I don't think people should also have the delusion that everything they make is, you know, important. I think people should also, at the same time, you know, kind of reel it in. In some ways many people should just, you know, try to self edit and ask themselves do I really need to be. Why am I putting this out? Is this good? Is do, is this for me? Or just, you know, do people need this? And you know, so back in those days, of course there was a much, much, I think tighter net of a network, right? I mean there wasn't this big social media.
- [23:44]
C
Like there's a lot of over saturation in those days. Also, if you flip through old issues of Sound Choice or OP magazine, there are a ton of tapes listed in the catalog. Sections of these have never been put on. Discogs have never been mentioned. Entire artists who do not have any online presence. If things seem oversaturated now due to the ease of access, you don't even need physical media. You just drop whatever crap on band camp. It was very oversaturated back then too. And there are also a lot of hurdles where a lot of people's tapes are recorded really, really awfully too. It's very common to get a tape from the 80s or 90s where that's only in one channel and barely going up above a few decibels. And on the over saturation angle too. A lot of artists had trouble getting individual works of theirs recognized because of the sole amount of output they were making too. One of my all time favorite Artists and close collaborators is Zan Hoffman, who had a number of labels for the 80s up to today. Zid Sick, Zid Slick, a bunch of variations on that name. Now it's all been encompassed under one name, ZH27. And in a 27 year span, he put out close to 2000 cassette tapes. 2000. And a lot of them are great. But it definitely brings the perspective where a lot of old tape heads think Zan could be even more well known than he is now if he honed some of those in, put out just a few releases, put the best sounds and put them on just a few tapes. I disagree. I think work he did was really needed just for the sole purpose of saying someone did 2,000 cassette tapes. I don't know who else could say that about themselves. But the oversaturation angle, you know, it was real back then. I think the difference is today is just people's entitlement to be heard. People just get upset that they don't get hurt enough. No, no, no, that's crazy. For some reason, I just landed this rifle. I don't really know what to do now. You want this.
- [27:16]
B
What the is going on and where the is it happening? I see people kind of digging out these obscure, obscure tapes in various genres. I mean, I, you know, I witness it or. Or films. You know, it happens in films too. Oh, this, you know, you know, like uncover this obscure horror movie from 1981 or something like that. How much stuff do you come across from those times that just isn't good, that you're like, this doesn't be reissued because it's just not good.
- [27:49]
C
Good amount of the time. Yeah. Like there's a lot of 80s and 90s takes that just don't really do it for me. I. I have older artists reach out to me too. The same way that, know, contemporary artists will reach out with submissions, occasionally have cassette culture artists reach out with a rip of their 80s tape and submit it to Tribe to, you know, attempt to get it reissued. And I wish I could because, you know, I do feel like a lot of stuff deserves more ears. But, you know, not everything from the 80s or 90s is to my liking. And there definitely is, you know, some kind of loose theme that kind of ties together what I do with Tribe. I kind of look at it as all existing in the same universe, which I mean, literally it does, but also, like, thematically too.
- [28:39]
B
What's one of your fondest experiences working on a reissue? Because I imagine, especially dealing with older heads, not everyone's just on Instagram, DMing back and forth. I mean, imagine you probably got to get on the phone with people sometimes. Do you ever meet up with them in person or, you know, letters or have more kind of personal, personal interactions and personal bonds that you, that you form with people over this, this stuff for sure.
- [29:07]
C
One of my closest relationships is with Jen Ken Montgomery, who's a very established male artist. He was a protege of Conrad Schnitzler. I got in contact with him initially through Hamicke's electronic cottage group. And pretty quickly we started swapping emails and physical mail art back and forth. And it's kind of blossomed into a real life connection over the past few years. Where recently he moved down from New York City where He lived for 30 plus years to Richmond, Virginia. I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina, so that's only two and a half hours away. So Jenkins made a number of stops by the apartment to drop off archival materials. He dropped off the tapes at the Mark Morland tape reissue was derived from. He's also passed on a ton of archival tapes we're looking to do more with. In the early 90s, he ran a space called Generator which put on live performances by so many great artists. The Haters, Big City Orchestra, Arcane Device, Chop Shop. And he has all these live masters on cassette, most of which have never been released in any capacity. I know the Haters live performances have been released on CDR at some point, but most of these have never been heard before. Addition to that, there's a box of audio letters from Conrad Schnitzler, close to 100 that him and Jen Ken swapped for over the period of a decade. So it's these very real artistic objects that I have in my possession and very, very real conversations Jenkin and I have had discussing these on the phone and in person. So there's definitely, you know, it's rare. It's not everybody I work with on reissues that I'm able to form a close personal connection with like that. But those connections are the ones that really make it the most worthwhile for me.
- [31:06]
B
Have you ever thought about expanding Tribe or maybe by another capacity, like something that would be a more all encompassing, like archival project of this stuff. Because, you know, Tribe, I think you have, you know, we're going to talk more specifically about the label. You know, you have a very nice aesthetic. Things are pretty handmade. You know, you do CDs. I mean, that's an archive in itself. But I imagine each release takes kind of a quite a bit of a work and it gets, you know, shown as an individual album, which is great. But with these kind of, you know, some of these guys must just have mass, mass archives of fascinating stuff that is existing just on cassette tape that eventually will be like, you know, hard to access or gone. I mean, I think, I would think it'd be also worthwhile to do something that's like also very kind of volume based, like archiving a lot of the stuff like, like the, the live recordings you just mentioned, you know, instead of, you know, maybe just each one as a CD or each one as a tape. But like make sure they get all a big box set or online archive somewhere, you know, so they can exist and be safe. And no, it's a huge, that's a huge undertaking for everyone. And I think there's probably hundreds and thousands of people who have such individual artistic archives that deserve equal treatment.
- [32:30]
C
You know, I totally agree. All the generator live tapes, all the Conrad Schnitzler audio letters, these are in the process of being digitized right now. Me and Jen Ken are actively discussing plans to archive these. More likely than not, you know, to prevent the Tribe Tapes store from being overrun with 100, 200 different archival releases, it likely will be some different format or series to encompass all these under. And I'm debating the kind of format that would be best to do this on a lot. For instance, a lot of the early hands 2 material was compiled a while ago on a DVD ROM. I think it's like around 67 albums that are all put on a single DVD. So maybe doing a couple of DVD ROMs could be an attractive option to get these out there. Also doing made to order cassettes where if there's any specific title that people want, that saves me the burden of having produce, you know, like 50 copies of every single tape is making them made to order. It's food for thought and things will work out.
- [33:41]
B
I asked some people on Patreon if they had questions for you. And I have a few questions that I'm gonna pepper in throughout. Nick Gibas from Bent Window, he asked, is there anything you've tried to reissue or re release that was impossible to do because of the rights issues or anything like that?
- [33:57]
C
There are very many releases that realm. Trying to think of a few off the top of my head. Let me look at my cassette rack back here and see if anything pops to mind immediately. Zbua is a really great Japanese harsh noise project. Really kind of like in the same realm as like Rudolph Eber with like how cut up and processed it Is. Can't find this guy anywhere. Worked a little bit with France divor in the 90s. He doesn't know whatever happened to him. That's just one of probably. I have a really big list on my phone of all those white whale artists that I wish I could get on the label.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah, I bet, Yeah. I mean these people probably just many just, I mean even nowadays I can, can't think of how many, you know, contemporary harsh noise guys that I was friends with, contact, in contact with or whatever for a couple years and they did a couple really great things and then they just disappeared. And no one, you know, no one's heard from or can get in touch with them for, for the life of them. So I'm sure the further you go back into that, you know, generation and that time, it must be just insane. I mean, I imagine compilations are hard. I've heard, I've heard about that from another number of people that want to reissue compilations even on bigger kind of more well known, you know, classic labels, well known compilations that maybe have one or two artists that you just can't get a hold of. And then it's like, well, you can't really do the, can you do the compilation at that point if not everyone has signed off on it or you know, if, if 20 people say yes and number 21 says no, what do you do? It's like, oh that's, that's gotta be really frustrating.
- [35:54]
C
Yeah, it's definitely a gray area. In cases like those with everything on Tribe. I always seek to get a hundred percent of the rights. So there's any ever, just the slightest sliver of doubt if I'll ever be able to get something. Oh, I think the only 90s compilation I reissued was very infamous comp that PBK put together, Anti White Bastards. This is in the early 90s when there was a bit of a moral panic about Mark Solotrof and the AWB Recordings label. A lot of people felt AWB was like legitimately very racist, very horrible. So Anti White Bastards came out as kind of a middle finger to that label. And it's a great compilation on its own merits. But that's one of those very interesting cases where PBK actually was able to get approval from the 12 or so participants to reissue that one legitimately.
- [36:51]
B
I recently did a follow up interview with Eddie, Eddie Giles, just, just a couple days ago and he talked about the Hell, Hell Town Incorporated release which I remember seeing coming out. And I think it was in between me shutting down the distro or something like that. And I didn't, I didn't grab it. But tell about that release.
- [37:11]
C
That was a really fun one to work on. Me and Eddie had a lot of phone calls reading up to that, fleshing out the 100 page text that we have accompanying it. It's a really historical document, both covering Eddie's early life, childhood, teenage years, as well as leaning into the events that led to recording of Helltown. Ank that's just a really great project. It was done in collaboration with a few other people too. Brian Set is another one. Was actually just listening to that tape last night because someone had ordered a purveyor's reissue of it and it really holds up I think in the canon of contemporary harsh noise for a late 80s release. It's really brooding, dark, difficult listening, a lot of really blown out loops and just really strange portions of audio. And yeah, the reissue was accompanied. Speaking of Gen can and Generator, Gen can had some vintage photos from when Eddie, under the alias EJ Vodka, was performing some demonstrations at Generator where he instructed the audience on how to make tape, tape loops, how to use turntables to make noise. It's equal parts noise, performance and lecture. And those are some of the Generator tapes I'm most excited to get out there too. We were originally talking about getting them out at the same time as the L Town reissue, but understandably that's been postponed a little bit as we figure out what to do with the full archive.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah, so you know, we've talked a lot about the reissue side of Tribe and the kind of the. Old school focus of the label, but you do release quite a bit of new stuff as well, and a lot of really great new stuff. Tell me about some of the artists, the contemporary artists that you're working with and what you look for in the artists that you release on Tribe nowadays.
- [39:22]
C
Yeah. So I guess the biggest thing that makes me interested in putting out a contemporary artist on Tribe is the way they handle their work. Their. How do I describe it? I guess their creative attitude towards. I tend work. I tend to like working with people who have a similar mindset that I do where the cassette is the ultimate medium for noise making. Most of the artists I work with on Tribe use tapes as an integral part of their setups. Dead Door Unit, Confounder, Mallard Fury, all these guys use plenty of tapes in their setups. And I think that's the biggest thing that draws me to contemporary artists, is getting that really gritty up sound and. And a lot of the artists I work with on the label. They are coming from kind of a regional area, primarily around New Jersey and Pennsylvania. I forged some pretty strong relationships of, like I said, a lot of people in Philadelphia, like Dead Door Unit, Bond founder Fricker, New Grasping Machina. These are a lot of the people that I work with closely on a collaborative basis, but it's also not just limited to any geographic location. Obviously. I work with a lot of contemporary Finnish artists on the label as well. Lusters Atrophist, to name a couple, along with a lot of just, I guess, artists in America that haven't really gotten the attention they deserve yet. Like Ineffable Slime is another guy I really enjoy working with on Tribe. When I first put out A Roll of the Dice. He only had a few self releases and a tape on Fusty at that point. And I was an artist where I really saw potential in him and I really wanted to try to bring him to my audience as well. And, you know, there's a few other artists in that tier two on the label who I see is just really deserving of that attention.
- [41:29]
B
Do you typically seek artists out or do they seek you out?
- [41:32]
C
I typically seek artists out. I'll listen to almost all submissions that I receive, you know, if I know who it's coming from. Not really so much strangers because amount of emails I get is a little overwhelming sometimes. But, you know, if I know somebody's work, I'll listen to what they submit. But typically I plan everything out far in advance. So the vast majority of releases are commissioned.
- [41:59]
B
We've talked now about your label extensively and I'm sure that'll keep kind of weaving itself in. But you do a lot of noise on your own and in groups. So tell me about your solo noise as Max J. Eastman. The stuff I've heard is, you know, very loop oriented, uses a lot of music samples. Looped sounds like vinyl abuse or tape abuse, I'm not quite sure. But tell me about, you know, your different projects, kind of your main projects and how they. How you would define them and what you're seeking to do with them.
- [42:34]
C
Yeah, so the easiest stick that I could kind of draw between my projects, I guess primarily between Tantric Deft and between the stuff under my own name. Tantric Def utilizes petals, particularly Distortion Petals. Stuff I do under my own name doesn't really. I. I use flanger sometimes. Henry sent me a Psycho flange pedal a few years ago that's all over Extreme Psychedelia and the Model of Malehood cd. But since then I Don't really use very many effects pedals in what I do. It's kind of just raw tape and vinyl environmental sounds field recordings. So Tantric Death is like, you know, I guess like in punk, they have Chain Punk and Egg Punk. If the stuff under that I do under my own name would be Egg Annoys. I hope to God no one ever calls it egg and noise. But, you know, Tantric def would be chain noise, where it's, you know. Yeah. Have you heard those terms before? Egg, Egg punk, and chain punk.
- [43:47]
B
Think I've heard those. It might be a little. I don't think I've heard those.
- [43:51]
C
But, like, egg punk is like punk that's, like, more inspired by, like, Devo or the Residents, like, really quirky. While, like, Chain punk is like, you know, D Bead or like, some crust punk, like amoebics or some.
- [44:06]
B
Okay, yeah.
- [44:08]
C
So you could kind of like, draw a similar comparison where it's under my own names, like, very abstract and weird, while Tantric Deaf is like, yeah, fucking harsh.
- [44:18]
B
I kind of knew what you meant, even though I've never heard those terms before. But that's a good. That's a good way to split it off. I think that's a pretty accurate differentiation with a lot of noise and kind of like, abstract music or, you know, experimental music. Egg and chain. So I have a question, actually, from Kenny kpg. What is his general view on noise in the live arena? After playing enough shows together, I've noticed that there is very little difference between the MJ set and a Tantric Death set. Those sets are usually ending in erratic. In erratic manners, too. Whether it's table flips, chain smoking, cigarettes, lighting sparklers inside. So I wonder how much live sets really matter to him in the grand scheme of the environment he's creating. Also, Max, why does my mom keep taking away my Tantric Death records?
- [45:02]
C
You're playing them too late and you're playing them too loud. Anyways, Ken, to answer your initial question, it's all based on the environment and what I'm feeling. I. I never rehearse for my sets. I don't really care to rehearse. I know I'll go on and I'll have a fun time and do whatever the I want. It really does depend on the venue, you know, like, let's say if I'm playing at a place like rhizome in D.C. where it's like a living room, I'm not going to be smoking cigarettes and setting off fireworks in a place like that. For instance, Because I have respect for venues, but I A place like Field Trip, where I love those guys and those guys love me. Yeah, I'll like chainsaw a table in half or I'll like set off some sparklers or just do some crazy. Because, you know, people come out to see a noise show, they want to see something a little bit different. And that's kind of where there is a big differentiation on record between what I do under my own name and his tantric death. But live, I pretty much do whatever I want. You know, if you book tantric Death, you might get some weird ambient psych. If you book mj, you might get me rolling around on the floor. It all depends on what your venue is and what kind of mood I'm in on any given day.
- [46:26]
B
Pete Jennings wanted me to ask you about the tantric Death Pain Appendix studio sessions at Tribe Headquarters.
- [46:32]
C
Pete came by on a business trip. He was headed out to the shore of North Carolina. My apartment in Raleigh was on the way. So he swung by. We got some barbecue at a really good local joint and then we sat down in my home studio, I. E. Tribe hq and busted out, I think close to an hour, just really ripping harsh noise and tape abuse. We're talking about shopping that around to a few different labels. It's pretty much all finished at this point. Point.
- [47:04]
B
Cool that. That sounds like a, you know, promising duo. Hope we hear that soon.
- [47:10]
C
Yeah, it's got some really cool track titles on it like Hell's Bells and Punch It Pussy Wild.
- [47:17]
B
Do you play live often? Is that something that you play? You put emphasis on kind of equal emphasis on with. With studio recording.
- [47:26]
C
Not particularly. Like, if there's an opportunity, I want to play live, like in Greensboro, North Carolina, there's a space I really like playing at Field Trip because I know all the guys who've run that for like many years, but I don't really have much interest in playing local shows the majority of the time. I am very interested in, however, getting overseas and touring a little bit more. This November is going to mark my first out of seas overseas tour as I embark to Finland for three days in Helsinki, Tampier and Turku, which is extremely exciting. It's going to be Helsinki November 6th, Tampere the 8th and Turkey the 9th. You'd also follow me on Instagram to keep in touch with everything that goes down. Should be a great time.
- [48:15]
A
Yeah.
- [48:16]
B
What's the. What's your connection?
- [48:17]
A
This is the end of part one with Max Eastman of Tribe Tapes to watch or listen to the full 1 hour 20 minute episode. Go to patreon.com White Centipede noise We go on to discuss his connection to Finland Domestic Noise Audio Letters, John Olson releasing vhs, the label Oxidation purveyor's arm of distribution releasing a tape package in a McDonald's cheeseburger, his top five dub records and much more. You can also download a zip file of audio visual ephemera that Max put together. If you're a premium tier subscriber, subscribe@patreon.com WhiteCentiPenoise to get access to all this and much more.