White Centipede Noise Podcast

Episode: Max Eastman of Tribe Tapes Pt. 1
Date: September 23, 2024
Host: Oscar Brummel (White Centipede Noise)
Guest: Max Eastman (Tribe Tapes)

Overview

In this engaging first part of a two-part interview, Oscar Brummel sits down with Max Julian Eastman, founder of the acclaimed noise label Tribe Tapes. The conversation explores Max’s fascination with 1980s-90s cassette culture, Tribe Tapes’ evolution from humble beginnings to reissue powerhouse, and the philosophical and practical nuances of operating within the sprawling noise underground. The conversation delves deeply into the motivations behind reissues, the ethos of tape culture, connecting with noise elders, contemporary artists, the challenges of archiving, and Max’s own creative practice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Max Eastman & Tribe Tapes

• [01:21] Max introduces himself as the founder of Tribe Tapes—a label originally focused on cassettes but now also on CDs, bridging the past and present of noise and industrial music.
• Max also records noise under his own name and as Tantric Death, plus assorted collaborative projects.

2. The Evolution of Tribe Tapes:

• [03:50] Max reflects on the label’s two “eras”:
  • Early Days (2019-2021): No fixed focus, initially a platform for his solo “Great Humor” project and other tapes, open to anyone he thought was “decent enough.”
  • Transition to CDs & Purposeful Curation: Larger editions (200-300 copies) demanded more selectivity and purpose, narrowing the focus to reissues from the cassette culture era and selected contemporary noise.
• Quote:

  “When you’re dealing with editions of 200 or 300, you have to be more purposeful of what you’re choosing.” – Max [04:53]

3. Discovering Cassette Culture & Noise History

• [05:41] Max charts his path into the obscure world of tape culture, starting with blogspot archives, forums, and college-era crate-digging, gaining access to otherwise forgotten releases and artists.
  • Early favorites came from blogs like Tape Attack and Die or DIY?
• Tapes seemed accessible compared to “untouchable” noise legends (e.g., Merzbow), giving Max a sense of belonging and possibility in experimental sound.
• Quote:

  “When I discovered the cassette culture movement, that kind of invigorated this feeling I had that I could become part of something.” – Max [06:31]

4. Connecting With Old School Tape Artists

• [07:30] Max began contacting original cassette culture artists through the Electronic Cottage Facebook community.
  • Early contacts included Hal McGee, Chris Phinney, Leslie Singer, Al Margolis, and others.
• He describes “fanboy moments,” but also the need to approach older artists as peers.
• Quote:

  “It was kind of a fanboy moment for me not to overwhelm them and be like, ‘Oh my God, I love this tape you recorded in 1983…’” – Max [09:18]

5. Collecting Physical Tapes

• [10:19] Max’s journey to collecting tapes began after finding digital rips; he slowly started snapping up physical cassettes on Discogs, realizing prices (and demand) have since risen drastically, especially post-COVID.

6. The Value and Relevance of Old Noise

• [12:16] Max asserts that his work is helping bring forgotten artists back to broader attention, often to their surprise.
  • Reissues can spark renewed appreciation—e.g., Randy Greif reissues fueling new discussions among contemporary fans.
• Noise is defined not only by distortion, but also by creative layering and cacophony, distinguishing some reissued artists from mainstream “harsh noise.”
• Quote:

  “Instead of making noise with super distorted process sounds, they’re more so making noise with layering sounds, real world sounds, and using those to make a cacophony.” – Max [13:40]

7. What Makes Old Noise Special?

• [16:41] Max on the enduring appeal of ‘80s-‘90s tapes:
  • Simplicity and limitation: Four-track recorders forced inventiveness.
  • Unpretentiousness: The goal was exchange and personal expression, not fame or clout.
  • Mail art and authentic community.
• Oscar notes the shift toward instant gratification in the social media era, contrasting it with the slower, more intentional networking and trading of tape culture.
• Quote:

  “It's just the mail art, the communication parts of it that endear me so much to it as well. Which is something I feel is very lacking in today's day and age.” – Max [18:20]

8. Perspective on Recognition and Legacy

• [20:54] Most old tape artists had no idea their tapes would be sought after decades later.
• Max and Oscar encourage artists to think long-term:
  • Today’s “unsold” run might become tomorrow’s cult collectible.
  • In a saturated field, quality and self-editing matter; but the spirit of personal connection and creative drive persists.
• Quote:

  “Things that feel like they don’t really make an impact now could very well be reevaluated... 20 or 30 years from now.” – Max [22:31]

9. Oversaturation—Then & Now

• [23:43] Max pushes back on the idea that noise is more oversaturated today; even ‘80s/‘90s fanzines were packed with obscure artists who never even made it online.

  • The difference now is entitlement to being heard, not the amount of output.

• Memorable Anecdote:

  • Cites artist Zan Hoffman (ZH27), who released nearly 2,000 cassettes—quantity itself is a kind of legacy.

10. Reissue Curation (Quality Control)

• [27:48] Not everything from the cassette era is worth reissuing; Tribe Tapes is selective, seeking a loose thematic “universe” that binds its catalog.

11. Building Relationships and Archiving

• [29:07] Max shares a particularly close artist relationship: Jen Ken Montgomery (generator space, mail art, archival live recordings).
  • These relationships go beyond digital exchange—real mail, in-person visits, and plans to digitize and archive priceless performances and audio letters.
• Plans are discussed for bulk/archival projects (DVD-ROMs, made-to-order cassettes) to keep large archives alive.

12. Legal/Rights Challenges in Reissues

• [33:41] Many “white whale” reissues are impossible due to rights or simply untraceable artists.
  • Tribe Tapes seeks 100% approval for all reissues.
  • The Anti White Bastards compilation (PBK) stands out as a rare case where every contributor could be contacted for approval.

13. Contemporary Noise Artists on Tribe

• [39:21] Tribe doesn’t just do historic reissues; Max commissions contemporary noise artists, usually those using tape as an essential part of their process.
  • Notable regions: New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, as well as Finland.
  • Max mostly seeks artists out, planning years in advance.
• Quote:

  “I tend to like working with people who have a similar mindset... where the cassette is the ultimate medium for noise making.” – Max [39:47]

14. Max’s Own Projects: Differentiating His Noise Output

• [41:58] Max lays out his personal creative split:
  • Tantric Death: Uses distortion, harsher, “chain noise.”
  • Max J. Eastman solo work: Minimal pedals, abstract, more tape/vinyl/sample-based, “egg noise.”
  • Analogy: egg punk/chain punk borrowed from underground punk discourse.
• Quote:

  “Under my own name [is] very abstract and weird, while Tantric Deaf is like, yeah, fucking harsh.” – Max [44:07]

15. The Art of Performance: Live vs. Studio

• [45:02] Max never rehearses for performances, preferring improvisation and responding to environment/venue.

  • Shows range from table-flipping, cigarettes, and sparklers, to more subdued explorations based on the space and vibe.
  • Live and studio output from Max’s projects differ wildly—sometimes subverting the expectations set by the release name.

• Notable Viewpoint:

  “I never rehearse for my sets. I don’t really care to rehearse... I know I’ll go on and I’ll have a fun time and do whatever the... I want.” – Max [45:14]

16. Collaboration and Recording Anecdotes

• [46:32] Shout-out: the Tantric Death / Pain Appendix studio sessions with Pete Jennings, recorded at Max’s home studio over barbecue and noise—set for possible release, with memorable track titles like "Hell’s Bells" and "Punch It Pussy Wild."

17. Playing Live and International Touring

• [47:26] Max reveals he doesn’t play locally very often but is excited about his first overseas tour—three dates in Finland (Helsinki, Tampere, Turku) in November 2024.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On discovering cassette culture’s accessibility:

  "When I discovered the cassette culture movement, that kind of invigorated this feeling I had that I could become part of something." – Max [06:31]

• On revival and legacy:

  "Usually the first reply I get back from them is, I'm surprised anybody's still listening to that." – Max [21:10]

• On mailing tapes and the DIY ethos:

  "People weren't creating these tapes to become well known. They weren't doing it for clout. Many times people created tapes because they wanted to trade tapes with other people... It's just the mail art, the communication parts of it that endear me so much to it." – Max [18:08–18:28]

• On oversaturation old and new:

  "It was very oversaturated back then too... A lot of old tape heads think Zan could be even more well known than he is now if he honed some of those in... I disagree." – Max [25:02–25:45]

• On live noise performances:

  "I never rehearse for my sets. I don't really care to rehearse... I know I'll go on and I'll have a fun time and do whatever the fuck I want. It really does depend on the venue." – Max [45:14]

• Oscar on the impermanence and future impact of releases:

  “If you release a new tape that you think is good, just don’t be frustrated if it doesn’t sell out now...” – Oscar [22:16]

Important Timestamps

• [01:21] Max’s self-introduction & Tribe Tapes overview
• [03:50] Evolution of Tribe Tapes (focus shift to reissues)
• [05:41] Deep dive into cassette culture blog discovery
• [07:30] Connecting with foundational cassette artists
• [10:19] Transition from digital finds to physical tape collecting
• [12:16] The impact and recognition of reissues for forgotten artists
• [16:41] What makes old noise special: limitations, attitude, community
• [20:00] Instant gratification and changes in noise networking
• [23:43] Oversaturation now vs. then
• [27:48] How Tribe curates which tapes to reissue
• [29:07] Personal connections and archiving with artists
• [33:41] Challenges with rights and “lost” artists for reissues
• [39:21] Contemporary artists on Tribe and selection criteria
• [41:58] Max’s own creative process and project differences
• [45:02] Max’s approach to live shows; performance anecdotes
• [46:32] Tantric Death / Pain Appendix studio sessions
• [47:26] Max’s approach to performing live and his upcoming Finland tour

Summary Takeaways

This episode is a rich oral history and deep-dive into the ethos, practice, and personalities guiding the contemporary noise reissue scene. Max Eastman brings an infectious passion and archival spirit to Tribe Tapes, building bridges between the original cassette networking of the 80s/90s and a new generation of experimental creators. Through hands-on collecting, archiving, and curation, he highlights the ongoing importance of physical formats, community, and context in noise music—while influencing and reinterpreting what “noise” means for today’s listeners.

To hear more—including Max’s connection to Finland, stories about John Olson, audio letters, and more—check out the full episode on Patreon.