MtoM #204: Two Doc Couple Beats the Seven Year Itch and Becomes Multi Millionaires and Finance 101: Your Finances at the Beginning of the Year

Summary

White Coat Investor Podcast Summary Episode: MtoM #204: Two Doc Couple Beats the Seven Year Itch and Becomes Multi Millionaires and Finance 101: Your Finances at the Beginning of the Year
Host: Dr. Jim Dahle
Release Date: January 6, 2025

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Introduction

In episode MtoM #204 of the White Coat Investor Podcast, Dr. Jim Dahle welcomes Steve, a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and his wife, a specialty surgeon, to discuss their remarkable financial journey. Celebrating eight years of marriage and achieving a net worth of approximately $3 million, this couple shares their strategies for financial success, overcoming common challenges faced by high-income professionals in the medical field.

Guest Background

Steve’s Background

Steve hails from the Midwest, residing in an area with a medium cost of living. As a child and adolescent psychiatrist, Steve and his wife, a specialized surgeon, have built a robust household income of nearly $800,000 annually. Their combined professional efforts have been pivotal in their financial achievements.

Personal Milestone

Originally planning to celebrate their seventh wedding anniversary on the podcast, scheduling conflicts led them to celebrate their eighth anniversary. Steve expressed heartfelt gratitude to Dr. Dahle, stating, “[03:12] …you have been my surrogate financial help throughout. I was very lucky to be introduced to White Coat Investor… It's greatly changed my life.”

Milestone Achievement

Net Worth and Stability

Steve and his wife have successfully navigated the pressures of a dual-physician household, maintaining a strong and supportive marriage. Their net worth has grown to around $3 million within seven to eight years post-training. Jim highlights this achievement, noting, “[05:43] …net worth right around 3 million. That’s awesome. You guys are killing it.”

Low Divorce Rates Among Physicians

Contrary to common misconceptions, Dr. Dahle emphasizes that physicians enjoy lower divorce rates. “The typical divorce rate in our society is 50%. If one of you is a doctor, it drops to 25%, and if you’re both doctors, it actually drops to 10%” ([05:28]). This stability has undoubtedly contributed to their financial and personal success.

Strategies for Financial Success

High Savings Rate

A cornerstone of their financial strategy is an impressive savings rate. Steve explains, “[09:12] …we try to save about $3 for every dollar we spend. Post-tax basis, about 75%.” This disciplined approach allows them to aggressively build their wealth while maintaining financial security.

Investment Strategies

Their investment philosophy centers around low-cost index funds and letting the market work for them. Steve shares, “[06:11] …being smart with low-cost index funds, letting the market do the work,” avoiding traps like whole life policies that can hinder financial growth.

Debt Management

Early in their careers, Steve faced significant student loan debt of approximately $200,000 at a 6.8% interest rate. Through disciplined budgeting and strategic repayment, they eliminated this debt within two years. Reflecting on this period, Steve mentions, “[08:11] …we actually have a fairly large disagreement…she has some skepticism around broad-based market index funds… but things have gone very well financially.”

Achieving Net Worth

Assets and Liabilities

Their financial portfolio is well-balanced:

• Primary Residence: Owned outright, valued at $1 million.
• Taxable Accounts: Approximately $1.5 million.
• Retirement Accounts: Around $500,000 in 401(k)s and backdoor Roth IRAs.
• Debt: Completely debt-free, fulfilling a key priority for Steve’s wife.

Real Estate Investment

Choosing to purchase a home with cash was a pivotal decision. Steve recounts the experience: “[14:53] …a million dollars is a really weird feeling, but it has felt great in the home sense. We picked something that wasn’t too big but also not too small.” This decision provided peace of mind and financial stability, aligning with their long-term goals.

Retirement Account Strategies

Front-Loading Contributions

Steve and his wife emphasize the importance of front-loading their retirement and tax-advantaged accounts early in the year to maximize growth. They prioritize:

• Health Savings Accounts (HSA): “[10:46] …front-loaded our HSA every year…and our HSA is pushing a quarter million dollars.”
• Backdoor Roth IRAs: Implemented early in the year to take advantage of tax-free growth.

Maximizing 401(k) Contributions

They also focus on maximizing their 401(k) contributions early, stating, “[14:11] …we max out our WCI 401s…for the maximum benefits, front load them as much as you can.”

Handling Financial Disagreements

Communication and Education

Despite their shared financial goals, Steve and his wife occasionally face disagreements regarding money management. Steve notes, “[10:46] …she doesn’t have the same background in the markets and personal finance that I do. She has some skepticism around broad-based market index funds.” They navigate these differences through continuous education and open communication, ensuring alignment on major financial decisions.

Advice for the Audience

Start Early and Save Diligently

Dr. Dahle encourages listeners to adopt disciplined saving habits, even if they cannot match the high savings rate of the featured couple. “You don’t have to save 75% of your income to be financially successful. Persistence is key,” he advises.

Invest Wisely and Plan Ahead

Emphasizing the importance of tax-advantaged accounts, Jim suggests, “Front load your contributions to retirement accounts and HSAs as much as you can. The earlier you invest, the more your money can grow.”

Seek Professional Guidance

For those uncertain about managing their finances, investing in financial education or consulting with a financial planner can provide clarity and confidence. Steve concurs, “[12:43] …paying a few hundred dollars to have a one-hour consultation with a financial planner is a great idea.”

Host’s Reflections

Dr. Dahle shares his personal financial journey, contrasting it with Steve’s. Coming out of training, he and his wife had a combined net worth of $120,000, significantly lower than Steve’s $3 million. However, he emphasizes that financial success is attainable through persistence, prudent saving, and wise investing.

“We’re proud of all the high-achieving individuals featured on this podcast, but remember, you don’t have to reach multimillionaire status to be financially successful. Save diligently, invest wisely, and stay the course,” Jim concludes.

Conclusion

This episode of the White Coat Investor Podcast offers invaluable insights from a successful dual-physician couple, Steve and his wife. Their disciplined approach to saving, strategic investments, and effective debt management serve as a roadmap for other high-income professionals aiming to achieve financial freedom. Dr. Dahle’s reflections further reinforce the message that financial success is accessible to all who commit to smart financial practices.

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Notable Quotes:

• Steve on financial guidance: “[03:12] I grew up without a dad and so you have been my surrogate financial help throughout… It’s greatly changed my life.”
• Jim on divorce rates: “[05:28] The typical divorce rate in our society is 50%. If one of you is a doctor, it drops to 25%, and if you’re both doctors, it actually drops to 10%.”
• Steve on savings rate: “[09:12] We try to save about $3 for every dollar we spend. Post-tax basis, about 75%.”
• Steve on buying a home with cash: “[14:53] …a million dollars is a really weird feeling, but it has felt great in the home sense.”

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Resources Mentioned:

• White Coat Investor Courses: Available at whitecoatinvestor.com/courses
• Black Swan Real Estate: Learn more at whitecoatinvestor.com

Transcript

[Steve]

This is the White Coat Investor Podcast Milestones to Millionaire Celebrating stories of success along the journey to financial freedom.

[Jim]

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[Steve]

Thanks for having me. Jim.

[Jim]

Tell us what you do for a living and a little bit about your family situation, what part of the country you're in.

[Steve]

Sure. I'm from the Midwest in a medium cost of living area. I'm a child and adolescent psychiatrist and my wife is a specialty surgeon.

[Jim]

Very cool. And you guys had a recent anniversary recently, I understand.

[Steve]

We did actually. So to give you the full story, I had signed up to do this a year ago for our seventh year wedding anniversary and then I never found any calendar times that worked for me. And then honestly this all happened with you and I felt like if I can't do this now, when can I do this? So we actually just hit our eighth year wedding anniversary instead of the seventh. But I did just want to thank you first before we get too far into things. I grew up without a dad and so you have been my surrogate financial help throughout. I was very lucky to be introduced to white coat investor kind of at the middle to end of my residency before I started fellowship and then kind of took on stuff from there. It's greatly changed my life and so I wanted to come on after hearing what happened to you say thanks and be part of the community.

[Jim]

You're very welcome. But I don't know that I can take the pressure of being a surrogate dad. I guess maybe just financial data, right? Is that financial dad?

[Steve]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Jim]

You have hit a milestone recently. Tell us what milestone we're selling celebrating today.

[Steve]

Yeah, so it's part of a two physician, both full time attending household. I think, you know, getting through, you know, seven, eight years of marriage, having raising a family with a young kid. There's a lot of pressure and stress that goes through that. Finding a way to, you know, make it through the end of the day, take care of everybody's call obligations, family obligations and still be able to celebrate. So there's historically been this thing about divorces spiking at seven years and then again at empty nest time that people talk about and you know, relationships go on wonderfully with my wife, so blessed to be married to her and I just really wanted to celebrate that. We actually took a trip to the Maldives to do so and got a chance to see some great dolphins and sharks and things of that nature. So that was a big milestone for us.

[Jim]

Very cool. Congratulations on hitting that you're right, it is not insignificant. You know, a lot of people think doctors have this terrible divorce history, right. And it's not what most people think. I mean, the typical divorce rate in our society is 50%. If one of you a doctor, it drops to 25% and if you're both doctors, it actually drops to 10%. So it's not this bad thing that people, people assume it is. For doctors, yes, residency and fellowship, they're hard. But there are a lot of benefits to being married to a doctor, it turns out. But you're so you're, you've been married seven, eight years now. You're also seven, eight years out of training. Both of you came out close to the same time and hit a recent net worth milestone. Now, I don't know if the one I have in front of me was a year ago. Where are you at now with your.

[Steve]

Net wor worth right around 3 million.

[Jim]

$3 million. Seven, eight years out. That's awesome. Congratulations. You guys are killing it.

[Steve]

Thank you.

[Jim]

What do you attribute, I mean obviously part of your success is it's two doctors, right? It's two big shovels contributing to this mound, this pile of money that you're putting together. But still seven, eight years out. This is impressive. What are your secrets to success? How have you acquired this much wealth that quickly?

[Steve]

Yeah, I think for us we just are very lucky to be on the same page financially the whole way through our spending habits. We don't budget anything, we don't ever really talk about much as far as spending unless it's for big ticket items. And because we both have just, I think intrinsically the way we were raised, learned to have a value for money, it's just come fairly naturally. We've basically saved her salaries as a surgeon her entire career and never had to spend any of it outside of like buying a house, things of that nature. And then obviously a big part of it, as I said before, is just kind of knowing what to do, being smart with low cost index funds, letting the market do the work, not being trapped by any whole life policies or bad decisions that I know other people have had to make. The mistakes of my brother and that I stepped over and so I haven't had to make those mistakes, which has been very fortunate.

[Jim]

Well, we all make mistakes. Hopefully we make them early on with small amounts of money. Right.

[Steve]

That's true. I did do that. Actually. I did make early mistakes as I was alluding to before when I came out of training. So I didn't have any Financial help for med school. I was able to get enough scholarships to cover my undergrad. And so I came out of that without any debt. But med school was all 100% financed by loans, all at 6.8%. So I came out of med school with about $200,000 in loans. This is back in the day, it's a little bit cheaper, but that, of course, was accumulating and I had no idea what to do. When they asked me what to do with the loans, I kind of pretended I was an ostrich. I put my head in the sand. I was in forbearance on those, which is obviously not ideal. Wasn't able to accumulate any income bas subsidies or payments or anything of that nature. And so it really was until, like the third year I was a resident where I was just figuring out, like, I actually have to address this. This isn't, you know, monopoly money. And I do have to find a way to go forward.

[Jim]

It's funny how it feels like monopoly money when you're taking it out, isn't it?

[Steve]

It does.

[Jim]

Was your spouse able to. Did she also end up with a bunch of debt coming out of school, or was she coming out debt free?

[Steve]

She came out debt free, and so it was nice to just have mine. And she was very aware. We had conversations about exactly what that looked like. And at that point, it was a quarter million that it was going to take to repay. Took us about two years to do that coming out.

[Jim]

What do you think your net worth was when you guys came out of training?

[Steve]

It was negative. $200,000.

[Jim]

Okay, so definitely in the negative. So you've had quite a swing now. Have you both been working full time the last seven, eight years?

[Steve]

We have been. She took off a little bit of time when she had our child, but other than that. Yeah, full time.

[Jim]

Okay. And what do you think the range of income's been total household income over that time period?

[Steve]

It's been very close to $800,000 throughout. 500,000 from her and $300,000 from me, roughly.

[Jim]

Okay, very cool. And what do you think your savings rate has been over the last seven or eight years, if you had to guess?

[Steve]

I take a look at it usually from a post tax perspective, Even though I know a lot of people look at it pre tax, we try to save about $3 for every dollar we spend. Post tax basis, about 75%.

[Jim]

Wow. Wow. That's quite a savings rate you're building. That explains why you're building wealth so quickly. I mean, the investments help Obviously, especially the last five years or so. But when you're putting that much money away, you just build wealth very, very quickly. Tell us why this was so important to you to do that. I mean, a lot of people would have said, you know what, let's get a big fancy doctor house, let's get a second home, let's get a wake boat. Let's, you know, let's enjoy some of this money. We deferred gratification for so long. Why was it important to you to have a 75% net savings rate?

[Steve]

I think it goes back to that sense of security. I did not grow up with any money, and so just knowing that something was there. And interestingly enough, my wife grew up with some money. Not fabulously wealthy, but definitely came from a upper middle class background. And she maybe feels even more than I did, despite growing up with much less. We just kind of felt like being able to say no if something happens at a job, if things aren't going the way we wanted to, was kind of the number one priority. And then I have no plans on stopping working. And maybe things will expand to get in that second house or get in that wakeboat. Those are certainly on the table for spending in the future. But for us, we wanted the kind of foundation and stability first. And then once we felt like it was easy to walk away from work, then we were going to kind of expand out from there.

[Jim]

The classic get rich first, huh?

[Steve]

Yep.

[Jim]

Yeah. Can you recall any disagreement the two of you ever had about money? What's the biggest disagreement you think you've had in how you invest or how you, you know, budget or spend or save or give over the last seven or eight years?

[Steve]

Yeah, we actually have a fairly large disagreement. She, I think, doesn't have the same kind of background in the markets and personal finance that I do. In addition to consuming every piece of material that the white coat investor has ever produced, I also listen to other finance podcasts and read other forums and other books. And so to me, it's kind of straightforward stuff. To her, there's definitely some skepticism, you know, around broad based, you know, market index funds. There's some idea that maybe, you know, should be having a financial advisor do some of this work. Thus far, it has defaulted to me, but I think there's probably still some, you know, conversation to be had about that in the future. It has certainly helped that things have gone very well financially and not that, you know, bear market means that you should be picking stocks. I obviously know that, but we haven't had to get to that point with how well things have gone in the market.

[Jim]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. One of the benefits of sitting down even for, you know, like a one time consultation is your spouse gets to hear that you actually know what you're doing, you know, and that is beneficial to a lot of couples and to realize, oh, okay, well, you know, maybe my spouse isn't out to lunch because there's a lot of people that are very confident about their finances and they're doing crazy stuff. Right. And you know, maybe your spouse worries that you're one of those people, you know. And so for everybody out there, something to think about that is a benefit of, you know, paying a few hundred dollars to have a one hour consultation with a, you know, financial planner of some kind. You know, even if you really don't have any questions, you just want to check up. That is something you can do. There are firms out there that do that sort of a thing. It's hard for them to build a business that way. You know, most financial advisory firms are set up to serve delegators, people that want to come and have them manage all their money indefinitely going forward. But there are some firms out there that will, you know, do hourly rate financial planning and they can do that sort of a service.

[Steve]

And I think that's a great idea. I really want to be doing that. I got to find the people and make the time to do that in between working and taking care of my, my child. But I think that's a great idea. I have shown her, you know, the Vanguard page and she's looked at it, but I think it looks like, you know, it's in Hebrew or Arabic characters to her or something when she takes a look and she sees the numbers but you know, of the actual ETFs and stuff, kind of looking like in there in a different language.

[Jim]

Even sometimes just doing the chores, buying, selling, donating, moving money into a daf, whatever those sorts of things are worth having the less interested spouse do from time to time. Just so in case you fall off a mountain or something like I did. You want your spouse to be able to pick up where you leave off. So there's some benefit to that. Now, you mentioned that your student loans are all gone. What's the breakdown of your net worth look like? I mean, what are your assets? What are your liabilities at this point?

[Steve]

Yeah, so we don't have any debt. It was very important to my wife to not have any debt. Again, I think going back to that sort of Safety net. Our net worth would be much better if we didn't own our house in full. But we have a million dollars in our primary residence and then the rest is about 1.5 in taxable and then about half a million between our 401s and backdoor Roth IRAs.

[Jim]

You know, this is a problem a lot of people have out there that they're like, well, where can I, where else can I save for retirement? I don't know where to save for retirement. I already maxed out my 401k in my IRA. You clearly did not have this problem. You've learned that you can always save more in taxable.

[Steve]

Well, actually, I will say I did have this problem going back to everybody making mistakes. We have only been in the markets for, gosh, I think maybe the past three and a half, four years. We did actually have extended periods of time with multiple, multiple six figures sitting in a money market that was under the auspices of buying, you know, a seven figure house in cash. But you know, things would have obviously, like I said, been much, much different if that was in the market. And we went with a traditional mortgage and did things that way again for family reasons, we decided not to do that. It gave everybody peace of mind. I know it wasn't the optimal thing financially, but I was happy to make that sacrifice, you know, for, for my wife feeling better about it. And so we did.

[Jim]

So did you pay cash for the house?

[Steve]

We did.

[Jim]

You saved up the whole thing and walked in there and dropped a million dollars on the desk and said we're, we're not going to do a mortgage.

[Steve]

Yep. At the age of 34 or 35. Yep.

[Jim]

That's pretty cool. What'd that feel like?

[Steve]

It was harrowing sending the actual money transfer and they send you all these don't get scammed and all those sorts of things. And so I quintuple checked it and called all the people and yeah, it is. It's a wiring. A million dollars is a really weird feeling, but you know, it's felt great beat in the home sense. We picked something that wasn't too big, but also not too small, you know, to. Not some super fancy house, but it's obviously not a nothing burger that a lot of people would obviously be very grateful to live in.

[Jim]

So yeah, a million dollars still goes a long way in the Midwest.

[Steve]

It does.

[Jim]

Very cool. Well, congratulations to both of you on your success. You guys are doing great. You should be very proud of yourselves. We're happy with any contribution we might have made toward your success over the years. And thank you so much for being willing to come on the podcast and share your story and inspire others to do the same.

[Steve]

I really, again, appreciate everything you've done. It's made a huge difference in my life. So glad that you're still here with us to host this podcast today.

[Jim]

I hope you enjoyed that podcast. It was a fun interview. We talked to so many people in this podcast that are just absolutely killing it. We're so proud of so many of you out there that are doing this well. Right. I was talking to them afterward. When I came out of training, Katie was staying at home with her oldest child, and I was working for the military. We did not come out to an $800,000 pair of shovels to work on our pile. We came out with $120,000. Pile or shovel. That's all we had. That's what we were making. Literally, when I was first in attending, that's what the Air Force was paying. It was $120,000 a year. Yeah, there were a few tax breaks on it, but the truth is, you don't pay that much in taxes when you're only making $120,000 anyway. And so we had to be pretty careful budgeters, right? We still had a high savings rate. We hit the ground running financially and that we were financially literate. We had a written plan, and we started building wealth, and it took us about seven years to become millionaires. Well, in that period of time, this couple were multimillionaires, right? They had $3 million in the time it took us to get $1 million. They bought a house for cash, for crying out loud. Right? So many of you have done way better than we ever did, and you should be proud of that. But those of you out there who are not multimillionaires, seven years out of residency, don't think you're unusual or behind everybody else. Okay? I mean, a lot of times on this podcast, we're seeing the very high percentile people as far as financial literacy goes, as far as savings rates go. I mean, they're saving 75% of their net income. You do not have to do that to be financially successful. You can catch up to that sort of success just by being persistent. Yes, you have to save something. I generally recommend 20% of gross. You have to save something. You do have to have plans for your debts, your mortgages, your student loans, et cetera. You can't just throw caution to the wind and blow everything and expect to be financially successful. But you don't have to be as successful as some of the people we feature on this podcast, right? They're going to probably have estate tax problems. They're going to have problems where they got to figure out, well, what can they spend money on that will make them happier? They've got problems. And then they got to worry about how can we keep from ruining our kids with all the money we have? They're great problems to have, these first world problems. And we'll continue to talk about them here at the White Coat Investor. But it's not necessarily some sort of requirement that you save 75% of your income or make $800,000 a year in order to be financially successful. The whole point of this website is that you don't have to do those things and you can still be financially successful. You do want to make as much money as you can without burning out. You do want to save a good chunk of your income. You do need to invest it wisely, but you don't necessarily need to be fi in the first decade out of practice. It is an option, though, obviously, if you're interested in that. Okay, I mentioned at the beginning, we're going to talk about the beginning of the year. It's the 6th of January when this podcast drops. I mentioned earlier, it's the last day of our Buy one, get one sale. This is a good time to pick up, fire your financial advisor or no hype, real estate, estate investing or a continuing financial education course from last year and get our CFE 23 course along with it. You can sign up for [e-mail] courses. But even if you don't need a course, it's time to pay attention to your finances. This is January. And the amazing thing, when we look at our traffic for the website, it's always really high. January to April, and then you guys go on summer vacation just like we do. And the fall's, you know, kind of chill, and then coming in December, it kind of picks back up again. And that's just the way personal finance is, right? We think about it at the beginning of the year. Well, it's the beginning of the year. It's time to think about it, right? If you're not experiencing the success you would like, you need to make some changes in your life and you can do that. You can save a little bit more money, you can earn a little bit more money, you can invest a little bit smarter. You can take care of those important financial tasks that maybe you've been putting off, like buying Disability insurance from one of our recommended agents. You can go to whitecoinvestor.com insurance for that. Or maybe you need to get a will in place, or maybe you need to do some more extensive estate planning or give a thought or two to your asset protection plan. Wherever you're at, please take this as motivation to help you do that. I wanted to talk a little bit about front loading retirement accounts. Right. Investing in tax protected accounts is a good thing. Not only do those accounts get more asset protection in every state, some states even protect your IRAs completely, but in some states protect HSAs and 529s as well. But they grow faster, right? You put the money in these accounts and they don't get taxed as they grow, even if you're buying and selling within them. And so you want to invest as much as you can inside these tax protected and retirement accounts rather than outside of them. So as much as you can, try to frontload your contributions to those things. So for the most part, you're trying to use your earnings in the early part of the year to go into retirement accounts and HSAs, 529s, whatever. And later in the year is when the money goes into your taxable accounts, that gives you a few more months of that extra tax protection. And so the first thing that we fund every year is our hsa. HSA is triple tax free. And so every year for like the last, what, 14, 15 years, we have put the maximum contribution into an HSA basically the first week of January, and we have invested it in equities the entire time and obviously in fact US equities and basically just put it all into total stock market fund just for simplicity. And obviously over the last 15 years that has done very well. I think our HSA is pushing a quarter million dollars and a good chunk of that is because we front loaded it every year. And that's what happens when you start frontloading these sorts of accounts. We also fund very early, our backdoor Roth IRAs, you can do one of these for yourself, one of these for your spouse. It usually takes a few more days than the HSA. The HSA you can usually dump in January 2nd or whatever. What often happens with the backdoor Roth is the money's got to sit there for a few days or a week or as much as three weeks. I've heard before before they let you do a Roth conversion on it. Two step process contribution to a traditional ira, then a conversion to a Roth ira. Yes, if you got some extra money in there from the growth in between those two steps, you ought to convert that as well. And you'll owe taxes on $16 or whatever earned in between contribution and conversion. But otherwise it's generally a tax free conversion because you didn't get a tax deduction for making the contribution to the traditional IRA because you make too much and you have a plan at work you can do more, though that's not the only things you can put in in January. Many of us have control over our individual 401s, and the IRS does not care when you make the money as long as you make it during that year. You don't have to earn it before you can put it into the 401. Now you have to have some money put into the 401, but you don't have to earn it. You have to earn it by the end of the year to justify the contribution. But if you know you're going to make enough money to max the thing out, you can max the thing out right away. What I end up doing in my physician partnership where I make my employee contribution is I send them a check in January for Last year was $23,000. I think this year was 23,500. I send him a check and I say, you know, put this in my 401. Now I wait until like April of the next year to make the profit sharing or employer contribution to that 401 because I just don't know how much I'm going to make and how much they let me contribute to it. I don't practice medicine enough to be able to max that account out. So I got to wait a while to put in the employer contribution. But you know what Katie and I do with our first paychecks from WCI of the year? We max out our WCI 401s. We happen to do mega backdoor Roth contributions in that, but we do it early in the year. And we've always done this in early in the year, as early in the year as we could. Now in the beginning we didn't have enough money to like max everything out in January, right? We couldn't do it. But every year we tried to move it up, right? Maybe the first year you come out of training, you can't even, don't even have any money to do your backdoor Roth IRAs. And you end up doing it like April of the next year. Well then you move it up to January or up to December the year after that, and maybe October the year after that, and eventually you get to the point where you're doing it early in the year, January, February, March, et cetera. You know, and you can gradually move everything up, right? Maybe it takes you four or five months to max out that 401. That's okay. Better to get it in there in the first four months of the year than spread it out over all 12 months of the year. You get a little bit of extra tax protected growth from front loading your accounts as much as you can. Now this is obviously the maximizer approach, right? And satisficer works for most of us in all things we do. But if you're trying to get the maximum benefits out of those accounts, front load them, you can do it with your HSA, you can do it with 529s, you can do it with your 401s. You know, a lot of times your cash balance plans won't let you do it like mine won't let me front load it at all. We have to, to spread our contributions out throughout the year. And that's okay. Whatever they want to make me do is okay. But as a general rule, your savings early in the year ought to go toward the tax protected accounts and the savings toward the end of the year, if any, can go toward your taxable accounts. Or maybe that's when you spend more money or give more money or whatever, right? But that front loading effect does have an effect on how quickly your accounts can grow. Today's sponsor, Black Swan Real Estate offers accredited investors access to private multifamily real estate investments with an investor first model. Unlike most firms, Black Swan collects no GP level fees and takes no profit until investors receive a full return of capital. Their position led team brings a hands on approach to managing their $375 million portfolio, ensuring every asset is optimized for cash flow, appreciation and tax advantages. With a track record of meeting and exceeding return targets, Black Swan Real Estate provides stability and growth for long term wealth building. Discover [e-mail] BlackSwan all right, we've come to the end of another great podcast. This is the Milestones podcast. The regular podcast drops Thursdays, the Milestone podcast drops Mondays. You can apply to be on this podcast. We'd love to feature your milestone, congratulate you on your accomplishment and use it to inspire others to do the same. You can [e-mail] Milestones. All right, keep your head up, shoulders back. We'll see you this Thursday for the next podcast and next week for the next milestone.

[Steve]

The hosts of the White Coat Investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.