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White Coat Investor Podcast
MtoM #246: Neonatologist's Hobby Turns into Lucrative Side Gig and Alternative Investment and Finance 101: Alternative Investments
00:21:14
We have a Milestone on the podcast today that we have never heard before. We are chatting with a Neonatologist who has become financially stable enough to start investing in comic books. He has acquired a $500,000 collection. He said he was on his way...
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- [00:00]
A
This is the White Coat Investor Podcast, Milestones to Millionaire. Celebrating stories of success along the journey to financial freedom. This is Milestones to millionaire podcast number 246. Neonatologist acquires a side gig, an alternative investment, and a wonderful consumption item. This podcast is sponsored by Bob Bayani at Protuity. He's an independent provider of disability insurance planning solutions to the medical community in every state and a longtime White Coat Investor sponsor. He specializes in working with residents and fellows early in their careers to set up sound financial and insurance strategies. If you need to review your disability insurance coverage or to get this critical insurance in place, contact bob@www.whitecoatinvestor.com Protuity. Today you can also email infoprotuity.com or you can just call 973771. 9100. We're up and running with our Champions program this year. Okay. This is only gonna run through February 15th this year. You can go to whitecoatinvestor.com champion and sign up. This is for first year professional students, medical, dental, et cetera. You sign up to be the champion. It costs nothing. It really doesn't require much. All you gotta do is give us your mailing address and, you know, basically prove you're in your med school class or whatever, and we send you a book, the White Coat Investors Guide for Students for everybody in your class. And all you gotta do is pass them out. That's it. That's the Champions Program. We're trying to get this book to every first year medical, dental, et cetera student in the country. Last year we got it to about 70% of the medical students. We're hoping to do even better this year, but we need your help. We cannot send these out one at a time. Number one, we won't get it to everybody. Number two, it's cost prohibitive. Okay? We got to send them out in bulk, so we need somebody to pass them out when they get there. That's your job as a champion. Please sign up whitecoatinvestor.com Champion. If nobody's handed you one of these books yet this year, that's probably because your class doesn't yet have a champion. They need you to do it. All right, we got a great interview today. This is the most fun one I've recorded in a while. But we're going to talk a little bit afterward about alternative investments, so stick around. Our guest today on the Milestones Millionaire podcast is Sami. Thank you for being here. Thanks for being on the podcast.
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B
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [02:17]
A
Tell us A little bit about yourself, how far you are out of training and what you do for a living and what part of the country you're in.
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B
Yeah, I'm a neonatologist practicing in the Midwest, and I am 14 years out of my fellowship training.
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A
And we just discovered before we hit record, that we actually overlapped in training in Tucson for about a year, which is. Which is pretty cool. I don't know that we ever met each other, but it's fun to have that connection. Yeah. Tell us what milestone we're celebrating today.
- [02:44]
B
Yeah. So the one I applied for was, I thought a kind of a Fun 1. It's $500,000 in a comic book collection. So I've collected comics for a while before college and medical school. And obviously once you get into that world, it's kind of hard to do those sort of fun things. And I kind of got back into it about five years ago and realized we were in a position that I could afford to spend on these books that I loved as a kid. And it's been kind of fun to do that.
- [03:11]
A
Very cool. Well, tell us a little bit about how you've lived your financial life to put yourself into a position that you could afford. You know, what's essentially a splurge, a rather expensive splurge. Right. At least it doesn't have the ongoing expenses of a boat or anything. But it's an expensive splurge without it affecting your financial goals. So tell us kind of how you've lived your financial life.
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B
Yeah, so I kind of found your material pretty early, like in 2014, and I was kind of searching the Internet to like, I kind of knew, like, you know, saving is good and putting it into investments is good, but that's kind of the base I had. And then, you know, as I learned more and we have a private group and so, you know, implementing things that allowed us to just be able to save 30 to 40% of our income in pre tax ways or even after tax ways that just made sense. And so when you start to see that growing, you realize you have the freedom to do other things. And so that's kind of how that developed for me.
- [04:07]
A
Now, you mentioned that you were kind of on a fire track for a while. You were like financially independent. Retire early. I'm going to save 30 or 40% and I'm punching out early. What happened? What happened that you got off that track and decided to get on the comet collection track?
- [04:23]
B
Yeah, so I was going through it and I was looking at the numbers and all of a Sudden I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, I'm going to have 20 to 30 hours a week. To do what? Sit here and read more? I don't know. It was just, it seemed like there was not a good answer to what I was going to do, which is what? My wife's like, what are you going to do if you, you know, retire early? And I'm like, that's a, that's a great question.
- [04:44]
A
Sounds familiar. I get this question all the time.
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B
Yeah. And of course, I don't think she's loved the thing I've transitioned to, but it's still, you know, it still works out well. But it was right before COVID I started looking at my stuff again because I collected as a high school kid, and I started like, you know, realizing I, I could afford some of this stuff, and I started buying things. And then I've always been entrepreneurial, so buying collections, selling collections, improving the comic books, that was always fun. Like, that part has been really entertaining and fun for me, and it allows me a balance from the neonatology world and vice versa, you know, so it's been kind of nice.
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A
Are you actually making money collecting comics?
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B
I am.
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A
So this, this isn't just a consumptive splurge. This is like an alternative investment asset class, Correct?
- [05:31]
B
Correct. So it's both things. I, I never thought I would make money off of it, truly. And then I started realizing I could. And it's been kind of fun because I get to have these things that I enjoy, like little toys that I personally like, but also that, that part of my mind that likes to, like, you know, be able to, like, have money grow. It kind of works in that way. Now, look, it's an illiquid asset. It could go to zero at any moment. I'm completely aware of that. But it's just kind of fun that there is some money making going on these last two to three years on it.
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A
Where do you store the comics?
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B
In my basement currently. And if I could show you my video, you would see my basement is like comics all around. It's kind of crazy.
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A
Okay, so do you have a special insurance policy on this collection?
- [06:17]
B
I do. You have to have it separate from your homeowners because the homeowners won't cover it. So it's a company called Collectors Insurance something. But yeah, I, I insure it for the full amount. It's a separate amount that I, I, yeah, I, I pay for.
- [06:31]
A
How much does that insurance policy cost? You remember?
- [06:33]
B
So for. And I, I'M a little under insured on the comics right now. I'm only insured for 300,000 because that's actually the amount of money I have into it. So it's insured for 300,000 and that's about 900 a year.
- [06:46]
A
Okay, very cool. And. And you're still making money after. After paying that expense of, I guess, who knows what the storage expense is. Right. It's your basement, but in the insurance expense, you're still coming out ahead. Okay, so give us a sense of what you're not necessarily net worth, but your investment portfolio looks like that you're comfortable having $500,000 in, you know, an asset class like this.
- [07:10]
B
Yep. So we have 1.5 million in pre tax. So that's kind of our 401k and cash balance at work. Then I have about 400,000 in after tax, whether it be Roth or taxable accounts. And then we have about 2 to 2.5 million in real estate, depending on how you, you know, our own home. I don't like to count that as an investment in that, but so there's. It comes out to about $5 million in assets with about $1 million of liabilities.
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A
Very cool. So it's actually a pretty. If you look at it as part of your portfolio, it's a big chunk of it. This is not a small percentage of your portfolio.
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B
No, it's about, it's about 10 to 15%. So when I started it, it was kind of that whole. I think you said it a couple of times, but like, when you've gotten to a point where it's good enough, it. Or, you know, you feel comfortable enough in your assets, you can, you can play around with 5 to 10% of your money in things that maybe aren't as, you know, Bitcoin or whatever. Not that that's what this is, but it's kind of like that because it's not, it's not an asset that I can go out on the market and be like, this is worth a hundred dollars. Pay me a hundred dollars. I have to kind of show that and find the right person to do that to.
- [08:18]
A
Right. Well, you know, and I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with this as, you know, a boat. Right. I wouldn't have a problem with you owning a $500,000 boat. Might be kind of expensive to operate and run and insure, et cetera, on your income, with your level of assets, but I wouldn't have a problem with that. So I don't have a problem with it as a comic collection. I just think it's interesting to look at it from both perspectives, both from a consumption perspective as well as from an investment perspective. It's interesting because it does have some aspects of both, of course, but. But it's pretty fun. Pretty fun to look at. Very cool. Okay, so you're, You're. Let's see, you told me when you started. So you're what, like 17 years out of training or so?
- [09:00]
B
Yeah, 17 out of pediatrics. 14 out of you. Yeah.
- [09:03]
A
Okay. So, I mean, you have a substantial amount of assets. Not. Not looking at the comics. Right. I mean, tell us how you got. The two of you got on the same page to decide to be saving 30 or 40% of your income and investing it away to the point where you're now, you know, multimillionaires.
- [09:21]
B
Yeah. I think it was so backstory of me. My dad passed away in his early 50s, so for me, finances were always important because I kind of understood what it looked like when things weren't taken care of. Not that we were in any bad situation, but all of a sudden, as starting med school, I had to take care of my family's financial life when I had no idea what I was doing at all and made mistakes throughout for that. And then as I started medical school and all that, I realized, like, look, it's really important for us to have a base that. That you as my wife, can feel, you know, confident that it can be taken care of if I wasn't around. Right. So for me, it was really important to get that going early. And that meant, you know, saving a ton. And that mean that meant putting into things that would grow at a 7 to 8 to 9 to 10% rate. And I started with, you know, the 401k stuff and that stuff, but then realized that real estate also was a very good ladder to do that. And kind of what I. My goal is, you know, now financial plan wise, is to have 50% kind of in equities and 50% real estate other than the comics, which I really don't think of as something that's going to support our family. But it's, you know, it's been there now and it's kind of fun.
- [10:33]
A
But it could. Right. You could go out and sell it and probably provide multiple years of living expenses for your family just from. Just from the value of the comics.
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B
Yeah. So when this year is done, I'll have done. Probably I'll have made six figures of profit from the comics for the year of 2025.
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A
Wow, that's something. So this is a lot of things, right? It's a consumption item because you love it. Although I'm sure you're not reading these things all the time, right? They just sit in some sort of plastic or case or something. Right.
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B
Because that's part of it, right? I like reading them, but yes, a lot of them sit in plastic and yeah, 100%.
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A
It's a little bit of an investment and it's a little bit of a side gig. It's a lot of things in your life.
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B
It's a lot of things.
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A
Which is pretty fun. Well, give us a sense what your incomes look like over the last 14 years or so. Typical neonatologist, employee, job or what do we talking about?
- [11:24]
B
Oh, no, this. We own the group. So it is a private group, which has been nice. So it fluctuates. But my income has been anywhere from 250 to 450. So it can range quite a bit depending on.
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A
Pretty typical physician income, though. I mean, that's a typical physician income. And your spouse is working or.
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B
No, no, she actually, she was an optometrist but then decided to stay at home with the kids. So she's been a stay at home mom for probably the last 12 years.
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A
Yeah. So you basically did all this on a normal physician income. Well done. You should be very proud of yourselves. You guys have done awesome.
- [11:59]
B
I am, yeah. I do feel a little proud about it.
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A
So let's go to the conversation you had because I assume you told her about this. You had a conversation at some point going, hey, honey, I'm going to do this comic book thing. Like, seriously, we're going to put hundreds of thousands of dollars into this and I'm going to spend a bunch of time doing it and it's going to be all over the basement. Tell us about that conversation.
- [12:23]
B
Yeah, it was, it was one of those things where I kind of had made the decision and like, I kind of came to her and presented it and if I got a lot of pushback, it would have. I would have, you know, nipped it in the bud. But, you know, she was like, look, if it makes you happy, do it. I think in retrospect she might take back that conversation now with, with what has occurred in our basement. But we have plans to deal with that and, and store them somewhere where it's not taking up the whole house.
- [12:49]
A
But yeah, it's the basement issue, though. It's not a financial issue.
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B
No, it's the basement.
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A
It's the space in the basement.
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B
It's the storage. She wants her house back is what she wants.
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A
This is great. Well, it sounds like a problem that can be solved with the storage unit, which is not dramatically more expensive than the insurance policy you're paying for. So that's pretty awesome. All right. Well, we don't talk a lot about kind of intermediate financial goals in this podcast. We're always talking about retirement. We talk, you know, maybe college, but we don't talk about this other stuff. You know, people that want to take a year off and do a sabbatical, or people that want to have a comic book collection or they want to buy a boat or these sort of intermediate things. What advice do you have for somebody that wants to do something intermediate like this? How should they plan for it financially?
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B
Yeah, it's almost kind of like the dessert at the end of dinner, right? So it's kind of like if I do these things, right, I can do this other thing that's going to be a lot of fun.
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A
Right.
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B
So whatever that intermediate goal is, if that. If it's the year off or it's buying the boat or whatever, it's like, man, if I just save that 20 to 30%, and if I don't live lavishly, you know, beginning, you can, you know, creep it up a little bit, whatever, and have my, like, other assets protected. I feel like it's almost like that, oh, I get this treat at the end of doing the things right that I should have done to. To get me in that place.
- [14:11]
A
Yeah. Pretty awesome. Well, well done, number one. Number two, thanks for being willing to come on the podcast and share this with others. This is clearly not a milestone we've had yet, and it's fun to get unique.
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B
You know, we. We love talking about the other things about. Oh, you know. But I think this stuff is important, too, because I think it gets lost in this. The side talk of. Of what we do and why. I like saving money. I like the investments. I like the boring investments. But I. I also like this, too. And I think that. I think there are other people that like other things, and it's not just all this.
- [14:41]
A
Well, there's probably somebody out there listening that's into comic collecting. Right. So tell us what your most valuable comic is. I actually.
- [14:49]
B
I put it next to me here so that I could show it off. But this. This is my most valuable comic. This is the first appearance of the X Men in a. There's a glare on the screen, obviously, but. So this is probably a 30 to $50,000 comic, depending on wow. This is my most expensive cover.
- [15:06]
A
Wow. Well, make sure that one's listed specifically in the insurance policy. It is.
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B
It is. 100%.
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A
Very cool. Well, thank you so much for being willing to come on the podcast. We'll let you go and move on. Thank you.
- [15:18]
B
I appreciate it.
- [15:20]
A
Okay, that was fun. I love the aspects of a side gig and an investment and a consumption item. And this would be fine as any of that and as all of it is especially fine. I promised you at the top of the podcast that we're going to talk about alternative investments. I generally don't consider everything that some people consider alternatives to be alternatives. For example, some people consider real estate investing to be an alternative investment. I really don't. I consider stocks, bonds, real estate to be kind of standard investments. An alternative is to be something above and beyond that. Typically they're a speculative investment, something that doesn't generate cash, it doesn't generate dividends or earnings or interest or rents or anything like that is kind of speculative, like a comic book. You pay somebody something for it and you hope to be able to sell it for more down the road. Right. Classic speculative investments are things like empty land, precious metals, crypto assets like Bitcoin. Right. These sorts of more speculative things. My favorite one, of course, is Beanie babies from the 1990s. But it's getting to the point where a young people don't understand this example anymore. So I try not to use it too much. But it is my favorite alternative speculative investment. My general recommendation when it comes to these speculative investments is limited to a single digit percentage of your portfolio under 10%. So you want to own some Bitcoin or some own Bitcoin, I don't care. But don't put 50% of your portfolio in Bitcoin. Not only is it very volatile, but there's real long term risk. There's. Could it go to zero? It could. Now, if you're a true bitcoin believer, you think there's no way it could possibly go to zero. But it's not impossible, Right? There are risks there. And so limit those risks by limiting how much of your portfolio you put into it, and put the rest of your portfolio into more traditional stuff like stocks, bonds, real estate, et cetera. But if you want to have some of your portfolio in these sorts of things, one or two of them, I think that's fine. Gold's been really popular the last couple of years because it skyrocketed in price. So I get more questions about gold now than I did for decades. Before the last couple of years when it skyrocketed in price. Be careful. You're not just chasing performance. It becomes very common when we're talking about speculative investments. People buy something because it's going up. Well, oftentimes they bought it because it went up and now it goes down. So be very careful with that. But limited in your portfolio. You don't have to invest in any of it. It's all totally optional. In fact, real estate is optional. You don't have to have real estate in your portfolio. Stocks and bonds will do it. In fact, there's lots of people out there, especially younger people, that are like, I'm not even going to do bond, at least for a while. I think some of that's probably performance chasing. They just don't have any experience of living through 2008. And the bear markets in 2020 and 2022 were so brief and maybe you didn't have very much invested that you didn't really feel the emotional visceral pain that comes from losing money you used to own. But it's not crazy for a young person to be in 100% stock. So I don't have a problem with that either. But be a little bit careful as you get into the alternative investment space, particularly in the private investment space, right? Scams can be run in public companies as well. See Enron for details. But it's much less common. It's much more common when you're in private investments, whether that be private real estate or some sort of private equity or VC or some sort of speculative asset. You're much more likely to get scammed. So you got to be very careful when you go into that space. All the usual investment principles apply. You gotta diversify, you gotta watch your costs, you gotta watch your tax efficiency and those sorts of things. You know, calculate your return accurately, including the value of your time. But it's fine to put a little bit of your money into that sort of stuff. It might add a little bit of variety to your life and who knows, might even really boost your investment return. Might turn into a side gig. I mean, look at our example from our interview today, right? Not only does he have comic books that are appreciating, but he's turned it into a side gig that he made six figures at last year. Who knows, maybe 15 years from now. He's got a dozen people working for him in his comic book business that he built while he was working as a neonatologist. That sort of stuff happens all the time. So don't be afraid to add some variety to your life if it's something you're particularly interested in. If you're really interested in it, you're probably going to get really good at it. So go for it. All right? This podcast was sponsored by Bob Bayani at Protuity. A listener sent us this review. Bob has been absolutely terrific to work with. He's always quickly and clearly communicated with me by both email and or telephone, with responses to my inquiries usually coming the same day. I have somewhat of a unique situation and Bob has been able to help explain the implications and underwriting process in a clear and professional manner. You can contact bob@whitecoatinvestor.com fortuity. You can email infoortuity.com or you can call 973-771-9100 to get disability insurance in place today before you actually need it. If you want to come on the podcast, you can apply. You go to whitecoatinvestor.com milestones and you'll be able to apply there. And the more interesting your milestone, the more likely you are to come on. So don't be afraid to use something different from just becoming a millionaire or just becoming financially independent or just paying off your student loans or getting back to broke or these more common milestones we have in our lives as physicians and other high income professionals. Sometimes it's fun to do the more interesting ones too. See you next time on the podcast. The hosts of the White Coat Investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.