Katie Charlwood (2:21)

Hello delicious friends, and welcome to who did what Now? The history podcast. That's not your history class. With me, your host, Katie Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. I may have been ranting on the Internet this week. I mean, I did have some good stuff. But let's start with the ranting. Because yet again, arseholes cannot keep Anne Frank's name out of their damn mouths. One week they're arguing that she never existed and the very next they're going, don't use her as a comparison as to what ICE are doing what? And may I add the fck, because here's the thing, as historical references go, this is a fairly accurate one. Like, and I know I don't really talk about the Holocaust too much because one, it's incredibly depressing and two, this is not your history class. Like, I don't cover the very, very basics. Like, hey, they mass deported people into camps like this. I felt was a general knowledge situation. Although in recent years I've discovered what I've thought is a fact everyone knew, like general knowledge, common knowledge has turned out to be not the case. So, yeah, okay, so anyway, I've been ranting on the Internet about that because it's like, how dare you? I also got to use a Malibu Stacey reference, so that was fun for me. But it's just like, how dare you? How dare you try and use this poor girl who suffered in life and in death. How dare you? I am livid. I am, to quote my boss, cross. I am cross. I am unhappy with this. And I don't usually go like full on ranty, like on, on camera. And I'm normally a bit more composed, but I did a one take, like full on rant about this situation because I know what I'm fucking talking about, okay? This is my area of expertise and I don't usually do it and I don't do that. But the good news is, she says, stepping aside is that I did manage to film a video with my son. You may have seen his hand, because I bought him a dinosaur. Because he's been really doing well. He did very well. He progressed at school. I mean, he's not where he could be, but it's all a process. We're working together. And positive reinforcement I felt was like such a thing that we needed to do, you know. And so for, you know, actually, you know, working hard and the fact that he put in effort, I was like, great, you're getting a treat. So him and his sister, they did really well in the report cards this year. So I took them to Smith's Toys and I got them something they wanted. She wanted a 250 piece art set. I was like, absolutely, you get what you want. He wanted a dinosaur, I got him a dinosaur. And then he wanted to make a video with the dinosaur. And I was like, sure. And so we made it and people love Jeffy the Dinosaur, which has become a thing. And so if people behave, if y' all behave, you will get more Jeffy content. Okay, I've spoken to him and my boy is up for making more Jeffy content, so we will see what happens. And God, I hope Geoffy isn't like a weird slang for something that I'm too old to know about, because I don't. I don't need that hassle right now. But anyway, I know what you're thinking, Katie, it's been almost four minutes. Quit your jibber jabber. In fact me. In fact you. I will. But first, we've got to get our source on our sources. Alan Turing the Codebreaker who Saved Millions of Lives by Jack Copeland Alan Turing the Enigma by Andrew Hodges the Sherborne the Making of Alan Turing by Rachel Hasal Professor Alan Turing Decoded by Dermot Turing what Did Turing do for Us by James Grime the Professor's Book Turing's Treatise on the Enigma by Alan M. Turing. Alan Turing His Work and Impact by Jan van Leeuwen and Barry Cooper Alan M. Turing by Sarah Stoney Turing. And let's not forget our old favourites, history.com and biography.com. are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then let's begin from day one of the podcast. I mean, I've been doing it for, like, almost five years now, but from day one, I have always wanted to talk about Alan Turing. He has been on my, like list. He was in the top 10 when I first started writing it out, and I think he may have been the only man on that list initially. And I know I don't talk about men very often in this podcast, especially not in a Favourable light, but. Because why would I? But Alan Turing, he was someone I've wanted to talk about for so long, but I always felt like I was never going to be able to do him justice. And this stems from. And you're going to think this is ridiculous, but my mom and I were watching the Olympics opening ceremony, right? And it was in the uk. They had. They had, you know, they were doing the big thing in London and what's his name? Danny, was it? Danny Boyle had directed the. The stage production of everything that was going on, whoever it was. And, you know, Darcy Bustle had come out of retirement. She was a ballerina and she would have been in extreme pain performing, but she came out of it to do it for the Olympics, for doing the opening ceremony. I love Darcy Bustle, so that's why I felt the need to mention her. But they had this, like, moment where, you know, because they were talking about, like, icons and history and all this stuff, and they had, like, space girls come out. They had Darcy Bustle come out, and they had this, like, segment where they had a moment for Alan Turing. And I'm getting. I'm welling up now. And my mum, she's not an emotional person. She's a very private person. So she's gonna be like, you're talking about me on that podcast again? So are you talking about me on that podcast again? Because my mum sounds like Kathleen Tullner but Scottish, and she's like, are you talking about me again? And she starts getting emotional. Like, she starts feeling human feelings, and she's watching this piece on Alan Turing and she's just, like, welling up. She's getting really upset about it, and she's talking about, you know, how they were so cruel to him in life and how he never got the respect he deserved at the time. See, now I'm getting emotional about it because he is, or was, the linchpin, you know, he helped, you know, end the war. Like, no matter what way you put it, he was part of that team. He was. He was that, like, again, the linchpin. He was that important point. And he was, I don't know, the quarterback. I don't. I don't know the sports, but, like, he was, like, a very important member of the team. And because, you know, the war isn't won by one person alone, it's won by all of the people involved. And he just. He never got the respect he deserved because he was a homosexual man. And that's the be all and end all of the situation. And, you know, there's always, like, didn't he have Asperger's? Which is a redundant term, but, like. Like, was he autistic? Was he this? Maybe. Maybe he was maybe autistic. Definitely a homosexual. And that's where, like, things just didn't work out for him. And I was always so worried to talk about him because I always felt like I would bugger up his story. But without further ado, let me tell you about Alan Turing. This Pride month, Alan Matheson Turing was born, as many people are, he was born on 23rd June, 1912 in Maida Vale in London, England, to Julius Matherson Turing and to Ethel Sarah Stoney Turing. Now, she never really went by Ethel, she went by Sarah. And I'm just gonna stick with that because, you know, if you don't want to be called Ethel, then you don't want to be called Ethel. So he was the second of two children. His brother, John Ferrier Turing, was A wee bit older. Now, the reason the boys are in England, the reason that Alan is actually born in England is because his parents wanted their children to be raised in England instead of India. Because Julius, he was in the Indian Civil Service, effectively, he was like a member of the British army, but in India, and he was on leave so that Alan could be born, right? So he's all part of the British Raj. So at that time, I think it was the Madras Presidency that was going on. So, you know, colonialism, because that's a thing. Now, here's. Here's a fun fact. His dad, so Alan Turing's paternal grandfather, he was a reverend, so he was Reverend Turing. And so their family, they're like, mainly like Scottish merchants. So they're all like, like, traders and, And. And businessmen, and they're, like, based in the Netherlands, but they're, like, Scottish. Because here's the thing, what I've noticed actually, is Friesian. So, like, where the black and white cows come from, like, like Friesland, the. The Friesian language is very similar in ways, in the pronunciation to, like, old Scots. Like, it's a very interesting, like, linkage there. Anyway, on his maternal side, like Ethel Sara Stoney, like, her family, like, her dad was an engineer and, like, chief engineer on the Madras Railway. And they're all, like, Anglo Irish, so they're basically Protestant Irish people who are now in, basically wreaking the rewards of the colonialism that overtook their own country. So they're, like, from Tipperary, because there's a long, long way to Tipperary, as we know. And also like Longford, which is a county that I keep forgetting exists, like Louth, like, I keep forgetting about Louth, but it's fine now. I think she actually lived in County Clare for a while. I don't know exactly where, but if. Here's the thing, Clare and Tipperary are really close. So if she was like Ballina Killaloe sort of in that area, it wouldn't be surprising if she was down that sort of part of the country, like, because those. Those share a border, you know. And like, so Julius and Sarah, they actually get married in Dublin in Ballsbridge, which is, like, now definitely, like a fancier place, like the RDS and everything is down that way. And there are some very fancy boutique hotels, which are lovely, by the way. I've stayed in a few of them because I like to save up my money and stay in very nice places and treat myself when I go places, because, like, if I can, sometimes I'll just, like, splurge and treat myself not that I've done that in a while, because I'm struggling. No, it's fine. People have it worse than me. But anyway, so Julius, he's a member of the Indian Civil Service. Colonialism and like, his grandfather, actually. So if we're going, like, up this patrilineal line, like, he'd been a member of the Bengal army, but basically, like, he was. Here's the thing, back in the day, parents weren't too keen about spending all that time with their kids, so they wanted their kids raised in Britain, but they didn't necessarily want to raise them themselves. So what happened was, because Julius is still very much, you know, a member of the Indian Civil Service, is that he has to go back to India. Like, he's like, his commission is still going, so he's going to go back. And so he does. And his wife follows him, because, of course she does. And so John and Alan, the brothers, they are left in the care of this retired army couple, which is, like. It just sounds like a really good idea for, like, a book or a stage show, like. And now they're staying with this retired army couple who, let's face it, would have been in the army during the Victorian era. Like, this is, like, logically, reasonably, chronologically, like, that's where this would have been. And so when Alan turing is about 6 years old, like, which is young, I think he starts school, like, four or five, and he's six, and people start noticing, hey, this boy's good with the maths. Nope, I'm wrong, it's six, because he starts school at six. So I was looking at the years and I'm like, huh, that math. Ain't math in for me? Yep, he's six when he starts school. And basically from the moment he starts school, his teachers are like, oh, this boy knows math. And so he's at St. Michael's in St. Leonard's on Sea. And so he's there for, like, three years. And the headmistress, she's like, this boy has such a brain on him. Like, she's like, this boy is smart. Everybody look at how smart this boy is. So he's there and then after this, he moves to Hazlehurst Preparatory School. Preparatory School. I can't say words sometimes. And so it's this, like, little school in this village in East Sussex. And then when he's 13, he goes to the Sherborne School, which is a boarding school in Dorset. So him and his brother both go there and then. Yeah, so here's the thing, right? So his parents, they're away in India. They come back every now and again. And for the most part the kids are either in these, like boarding schools or they're staying with this retired army couple. But then on like school holidays, like the summertime, they would spend that with their parents. Now I think it's like 1926 when he's like 13 and he's starting school or secondary school really, like properly that older school age. And it's not secondary school. Yeah, it's like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Anyway, but for like college. Yeah. So he's, he starts this boarding school and he's at West Courthouse. So he is at West Courthouse at the Sherborne School. And the first day of term happened to coincide with the 1926 General Strike, which meant that he couldn't like travel. So like he, he almost didn't make his first day of school. So because this strike is on and he's so determined to get to school that he cycles 60 miles, which is 97 kilometers for those of you who use the metric system. And he just cycles at 16 years old from Southampton to Sherborne. Now he does, he does stop. Like he stays at an inn overnight like a weary traveler on the road, which is technically what he is, but he just stays in an inn and then continues on his merry way. Now it's the year after this that his parents actually buy a house in Guildford. Oh my sweet Christ. I just like aged him up by three years. He was 13 to secondary school. Why did I call him 16? It's because of 1926. It buggered up my brain. He was 13. He was 13 and he cycled 60 miles on his own. He was 13 and he traveled 60 miles unaccompanied. Okay. No, no, no, my boy's 11. I mean, I've seen him like cycle six miles on his own and then come back dripping in sweat. But like, he'll, he'll go, you know, but like. Yeah, yeah, no, no, 13 is too. No, it's too young. I'm sorry, Please don't, please don't cycle for 60 miles unaccompanied 13 year olds. Unless, like you really have to. Unless it's like a life or death situation, in which case cycle, cycle little children like E.T. you know, not that E.T. was actually doing the, the cycling. That's not the point. Don't mind this 13 year old staying at this inn unaccompanied. What? What? Anyway, Sorry. But also. What? Sorry. Anyway, at school he did well with maths. And sciences and also running. Now, he didn't have a lot of male friends, specifically because it's. Boys were at school, obviously, but he didn't have a lot of friends. He didn't really vibe with other people much. But yes, he was at this boarding school then. And I love the fact that none of his parents thought, maybe I'll drive him, maybe I'll get someone to drive him to school. No, he just. Anyway, sorry, I'm really stuck on this and it bothers me so much. Nobody thought, let's get this boy to school anyway. I can't believe I'm getting so mad about this. This is such a thing to get riled up on. But yes, so at school he's like, super into, like, maths and science and things like that, but he's not really into, you know, Latin and mythology and, you know, those kind of things, sort of the classics. And so he's not really into, like, Greek and Roman literature and all that kind of stuff, especially if it's in the original translation and he's not, like, into it and he's not like, super great at it. And it gets to the point that his headmaster ends up writing to his parents, like, please do something with this boy. Basically, he's like, he's. He's gonna fall between two stools, effectively. They're like, either, you know, send him away somewhere where he can focus specifically on science and maths, right? Do this because if he stays here, he needs to focus on classics and, like, become good at that shit. Like, that's basically it, right? And you know how there is this whole thing about how gays can't do math and, like, bisexual women mathematics? No, sorry, it's not a thing. That math ain't mathing. And. But yeah, Alan Turing is like, no, no, no, no, no. The gays can math now. Excuse me. So he just starts, like, doing complicated, like, math equations. Like, he's never done, like, basic, like, calculus and stuff. But the boy, he knows his maths. Like, he can just understand it. Like, he gets it. The interesting thing about maths, though, is it's something that you need to, like, consistently do and think about. And I was thinking about this concept about him maybe being autistic or neurodivergent of some flavor. And, like, you focus on things and the reason you remember things is because you replay them in your head, which is why negative bias is such a thing, because we replay memories and feelings over and over our head and we tend to focus on the worst things because we try to rethink it and relive it anyway. So, like, you're doing things over and over your head. And maths, I find maths itself is repetition. It's understanding formulas and things because it's. It's repetition, it's memory, like most things are really. But I think it's one of those things you have to actively do. Maybe it's just my little idiot math brain, but he's just, like, in it. Like, he gets it. Like, it's always, like, on the cusp for him. It's just. I don't want to say easy, because I don't think anything was easy. He just had a talent for it and he had a skill, and he just leaned more in that direction. And because he was interested in it, it was easier for him to learn. Well, being at school, it wasn't just maths and running. He did running. The boy liked to run, which is not a team sport, as you may have guessed. And so he is running. So he's basically isolated himself in a completely different way. Like, he's not into the classics like the other boys are. He's like. Like a little nerd, a little gay nerd. He's a gerd, if you will. Not gerd, which is the thing that pregnant women get, which is. It's not indigestion. It's like acid reflux. Anyway, that's not the point. He's a little gay nerd and he likes to run. He's a fast gay nerd and he falls in love. He falls in love with Christopher Morcom, who I think is like. I can't remember if he's in the year above or the year below. But, like, they're. They're not the same age, but Christopher, you know, they're in different houses and. But they just sort of come across each other. And it is Alan Turing's first love. They're his first love. And this relationship, it is cut short because in the 1930s, Christopher passes away from bovine tuberculosis. And if you're thinking that's the second time you've mentioned cows in this episode, you are correct. But bovine tuberculosis was a type of tuberculosis that you got from drinking cow's milk. Infected cow's milk, which is why you're supposed to pasteurize it. Sorry, when we're gonna drink raw milk, you're gonna get bovine tuberculosis. Okay, lads, can we not? Anyway, why. So, yeah, in 1930, Christopher Morcom passes away from bovine tuberculosis, which, again, it's just a mark of tragedy in Alan Turing's life. Now, I know they say that maybe he's autistic because he didn't have these sort of social connections. Yeah, maybe he didn't have those social connections because he wasn't raised by his family and he was consistently being sent off to other places. I'm just. I'm just given an option, floating the idea. And this really hit Alan Turing hard. Like, it really broke his heart. And he basically used his grief as fuel to work harder at maths and science, because that's what he and Christopher actually bonded over. And Christopher Morcom introduced him to astronomy and so not astrology. Like, he wasn't like Pisces Rising. No, he was just, like, into astronomy and planets and. And all that jazz. And so he started focusing on that because it was a connection they had. And he even became close to Christopher Morcom's mum. And every year, like, round about Christopher's birthday, he. He would write letters. It's a wonderful thing, letters. He would write letters to Christopher's mum. And in one of them, he even said, I am sure I could not have found anywhere another companion so brilliant and yet so charming and unconceited. I regarded my interest in my work and in such things as astronomy, to which he introduced me as something to be shared with him. And I think he felt a little the same about me. I know I must put as much energy, if not as much interest into my work as if he were alive, because this is what he would like me to do. But, like, that's so sweet. He's finding a way to channel that grief and appreciate the person from when they were alive. And there's just something so beautiful about that. Ugh. Human emotions. I don't like them. So, anyway, he ends up going to King's College to not a scholarship, because his family had enough money to pay for him to go there. I'm gonna get a scholarship to King's College. I don't mean to brag, but, damn, I am as an astonish. That's a really bad Lin Manuel Miranda impression. Even though, like, Alexander Hamilton, he's Scottish, right? He's Scottish descent. Like, his dad's Scottish. His name is Alexander Hamilton. Like, that is a very Scottish name. And. And he's like, in the island of Nevis. He's from Nevis, right? Like in the West Indies. But, like, yeah, so I, I, whenever I think of Hamilton, I like to think of him as having a Scottish accent. My name is Alexander Hamilton. My name is Alexander Hamilton. And there's a million Things I haven't done. But just you wait. Just you wait. So, yes, he goes to King's College to study mathematics and then he goes to Princeton. Yes, that Princeton to get a PhD. And so he goes across the pond and then he comes back and so September 1938, Turing starts working part time at the government code in Cypher School, which is basically a code breaking organization. Like in Britain, a British code breaking organization, if you will, which I don't know if you know, dates, but this is like just before the second world War breaks out, which seems like a really good time to go for a break.

Carvana Representative (30:08)

Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.

Katie Charlwood (30:11)

Whoa. When did I get here?

Carvana Representative (30:12)

What do you mean?

Katie Charlwood (30:13)

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana Online. I must have time traveled to the future.

Carvana Representative (30:19)

It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.

Katie Charlwood (30:23)

It is the future. It's.

Carvana Representative (30:26)

It's the present. And just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.

Katie Charlwood (30:30)

It's all good. Happens all the time. Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana, pick up.

Carvana Representative (30:37)

Times may vary and fees may apply.

Stem Regen Representative (30:39)

Say hello to Mia.

Katie Charlwood (30:40)

Hey there.

Stem Regen Representative (30:41)

Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago. But getting new clients was rough until.

Mia (30:45)

I started using Acast. I recorded my ad, targeted pet owners in the area and let ACAST do the rest. Now people all over the city know about my grooming services.

Stem Regen Representative (30:53)

Mia's business is looking sharp. What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients?

Mia (30:58)

A fresh cut, a friendly vibe, and a well placed podcast ad.

Stem Regen Representative (31:02)

Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go.acast.com advertise to get started.

Katie Charlwood (31:14)

And we're back. I hope you enjoyed your adverts, commercials, or perhaps even a moment of silence. So enjoy that. So here's the thing. Before we get into like more Alan Turing stuff, it's like, so you know, I don't have control over like the programmatic ads that show up here. Like, I don't have any involvement in that. All I know is that for some reason Sony Pictures were doing a lot of ads. I don't even know what they were for, but apparently that's a thing. So one time, like, I got like angry messages about how there was like Trump ads on the podcast or some angry conservative stuff. And I'm like, shouldn't you be happy that they're there? Because it means what they're doing is they're just wasting money. Because if Anybody's listening to my podcast, like, I doubt they're conservative. And if you are, you can fck right off because I don't want you here. Like, I'm, I'm not here for angry people who are on the right, which is actually the wrong side of history, because, you know, I feel like common decency and morals are relevant to life and existence. So, yeah, you can fck right off if you fall into conservative American Republicanism, like, all that kind of sht. Bye, bye. Adios. Au revoir of weirdo Zen. Now, sometimes, you know, you grew up in a situation and your mind has changed. Fine, great, I understand. But, like, don't, son. Just don't. Anywho, but, like, yeah, if, if they're wasting their money on my podcast, which they're doing just to make you angry, like, they're just wasting their money. They're wasting it, right? Um, but I don't really care what adverts are played unless they're very funny, unless they're weird as shit. You tell me about it because I want to know that stuff. Right? Um, I, I, I had someone message me and they were like, I got one for a Texas gun range. And I'm like, that's amazing. So if we can get the three G's, it'll be great. Which is guns, God and Girls, Girls, Girls. Like, I'm so mad. I was in LA and I saw, like, the one billboard that was about guns and I saw a God billboard, but I never saw Girls, Girls, Girls billboard. I was so mad. I want to see one. Anyway, back to alan Turing. It's 1939, and the French and the British meet with the Polish cipher bureau. And it is here that the Polish give them information about the wiring of the Enigma cipher machine and also about their method of decryption. And it's this that is given then two Alan Shering. So Alan Shearing, he's working with Dilly Knox, right? They're like a great team. So the Polish, the sort of, the decryption method they were using, it sort of required this insecure indicator in the German cipher. Now, this could be changed and fixed, like, on the other side, on the German side. And so it wasn't the most reliable in Germany. They ended up, like, changing the cipher, the insecure indicator in the cipher in, like, 1940. So, like, the following year. So this method, it wasn't like, it wasn't like, the best because, like, two years in, two years in, it's just crack. And so Turing, he, he created this crib based decryption. So he ended up being able to, like, improve the machine that they were using. And so the Polish had a machine called the Bomba, which is like this little tippity type machine that they used to decrypt the ciphers. And then Turing created the Bomba, which was B, O, M, B, E. So, like. Yeah, yeah. And so that's what they were using to decode the British ciphers. And effectively, he just kind of upgraded. He basically upgraded the Bomba, and this was basically put into Bletchley Park. So if you haven't watched Bletchley Circle, you should. So anyway, in 1939, after the UK declares war on Germany, and if I hear anybody be like, Chamberlain takes too long to. Britain could not survive going into war early. It would have lost. It would have failed. It was not economically, it was not socially. There was not enough of anything to survive. And so, you know, the appeasement was basically biding time. Like, just because it wasn't gung ho doesn't mean shit. Wasn't working behind the scenes. Anyway, anyway, again, I don't usually talk about the Second World War much anyway, which is funny because, like, I have a whole thing about World War II propaganda. No, no, Katie, it's not about that. It's about Alan Turing. Okay, so let's talk about Alan. So, yes, in this Bomba, it was just the first of five major advances that Turing would make during the war. And so it's in Bletchley park, and this is when they cracked the German cyphers using his methods. And so, like, they're able to crack the coat. And so one of the other things he does is he was able to deduce the indicator procedure used by the German navy. And so they would use a cipher, but it was separate from the other ciphers and no one was working on it. And Turing was like, fuck this for Game of Soldiers. I'm gonna crack it. And so he developed a new statistical procedure which made this whole thing, like, more effective. And he's just, like, updating shit. Like, he's just making everything better, making the bombers more effective, making things faster. Like. Yeah. So he ends up developing this procedure called the Turing Grey. And it was working out the cam settings on the wheel of the Lawrence cipher machine. And so it's like a little machine and has all these, like, settings and wheels. And he figured out this procedure of how, like, to decipher it and move it. And then towards the end of the war, he developed a portable secure voice scrambler. With which they code named Delilah. Right. Which honestly, if hey there, Delilah was about this, it would be so much cooler. That's what I need. Like, hey there, Delilah. And it's like this little voice scrambling machine. Oh my God. It's like. But it's like scream. No, wait, I need artists to make this because that would be fcking cool. Anyway. And so anyway, the bomba, it led to like, I don't know, it's probably just pronounced bomb, but I'm like, bomba, bumba. So this ended up like, leading to like the breaking of the German ciphers in Bletchley. And in 46, Turing was appointed as Officer of the Order of the British Empire by King George VI for his help during the war. Because obviously the war, it finishes, Hooray. They were able to crack the ciphers and the codes and get information that they needed in order for them to, you know, do the army stuff. So they could send the army to do the things that it needed to do. Like, it's, it's not just a man with a gun or a man in a tank. Like, you had all of these different cogs in the machine doing their part. And then you have Alan Turing, who's just spearheading like this. And a lot of his work, it was, it was hidden because the, you know, there was always the fear of another war as well. Like that was there. And then the Cold War happened. And so there's just this massive, you know, secrecy. So, like, there's a secrecy act and it basically keeps a lot of the stum. But he does get, like, you know, officer of the Order of the British Empire, gets his wee medal, yada, yada, yada. So that same year, he presented a paper on the stored memory computer, which would store programs in an accessible electronic memory. Like, he wasn't the first person to do a paper on it, but he was the first one to present a paper that was this incredibly detailed, like, paper. Like, he had a design of the computer, what it would do, how it would look, how it would work. And everyone was like, oh, what? Because he wanted this to be accessible, he wanted, you know, people to be able to use his machines. Like, and it's so amazing when you think about it. Like, Alan Turing, this, I mean, let's just call it a gay man, is the reason we have computers. Right? Right, let's just put that out there. A woman is the reason we have the Internet, how WI fi works, you know, like Hedy Lamarr, you know, and they would have been alive, like around about the same time. And like, even before this you have. Oh my God, Lord Byron's daughter. How have I forgotten her name? Ada Lovelace. Ada Lovelace. Right, so you've got her, who, along with Charles Babbage, like they invented like the concept of computer. But yeah, it's, here's the thing, like all these people are the reason that we have a phone in our hand right now. But anyway, anyway, he is like, he's putting out this paper, he's like, look, computers. And he worked on a design for ace, which is this automatic computing engine. But because, you know, secrecy, the war, all this stuff, like, like he. There's loads of delays on it and he can't talk about it, right? And so the project doesn't really get off the ground and obviously he becomes disillusioned. And then by the time the 1950s roll around, like, like the, the sort of an ace was starting to be built. Maturing, like, wasn't there for it because he was off, you know, in Cambridge. And the full version of the automatic computing machine, like it would not come about until after his death, like the proper version, the full version. Now, like he's on the sabbatical from Cambridge, so he's in Cambridge, right, and he ends up like making or producing work, right, on intelligent machinery. Now this doesn't get published during his lifetime. Like this is all published like post mortem. And you gotta remember as well, like, like for a lot of people the idea of his science would be science fiction. Like he could see something in the future that a lot of people just weren't able to grasp. And so he's like hooking his nails into this and he is, you know, writing about machines and intelligent machinery. He's warning us about Skynet, but also he's like, you know, coming up with the idea of the computer. And not only that, but he wanted the computer to be something that we all had access to. But anyway, 1948, he gets reader in the mathematics department at Victoria University of Manchester. Basically he's appointed reader. And this is like a high falutin professor, right? He is up the ranks, he's like top dog professor basically means he's like super duper smart. So he is just like tippity top cream of the crop, you know. And so while he's there, he studied and I shit you not, AI. And he creates an experiment which we still talk about today, called the Turing Test. And the Turing Test creates a standard for what a machine needed to do to be deemed intelligent. Now, it was originally Called the Imitation Game, which is what the movie with Bentleybum Cumbersnatch is in and Keira Knightley. Sorry, I needed a moment. So, yeah, he was creating this test. He was working with a man, a colleague called Champerone and they ended up creating a chess program to play through the computer. Unfortunately. Nerds, nerds in their chess. I'm kidding. I'm. I don't think ahead enough to play chess. Like, I'm not. I mean, that being said, the last time I probably played chess like properly with any sort of determination was my mum had got my dad like back when they were, you know, together was in the 90s and she'd got him a Battle of Hastings chess set. So it was like, like a hand carved battle of Hastings, like the Normans versus the Anglo Saxons, like. Anyway, really good, really fun. I ended up breaking the head off a pawn. Not intentionally. His head just kind of fell off. He got better. But yeah, I glued it back on with some, with some glue. It was fine. I didn't get in that much trouble. So yeah, they're, they try and make this game of chess to the computer, but the computer wasn't powerful enough to run the program that they created. And so Turing really wanted to see if it would work. And so he sits down at a chessboard and went through the program by hand, playing out the moves that the computer would have played against his colleague. And so it takes him half an hour, like 30 minutes to do each move because he had to like, read through the algorithm to like make sure like, he was doing it the right way. And so like, and they're recording like each step of this game, right, which is so much effort. Like, I mean, I get the hyper focus consideration now. Like, that's the thing though. Are you passionate about something or is it a hyperfocus? Like, you have to understand the difference anyway. So, yeah, each move, each move is like half an hour. So games could last weeks, I guess, because that's when you think about it. Because if you're doing half an hour for one move, I suppose days is probably more reasonable when you think about it. But yeah, so the game is recorded and they said the program was able to play chess in a recognizable way. Now, it could play, but it wouldn't beat Macaulay Green. Like, there is no like record of it ever beating like Shampoo. And it's like never beaten him in this test. But there's a rumour which I feel is deeply, deeply settled in misogyny because it's like it bet the colleague's wife on a game of chess once. The mathematician's wife. Did it beat the mathematician who played chess. Cool. Did it beat the W? Sure. Okay. But there's no record of that. But there's, like, a little rumor because it's like, ooh, but it did beat a woman fck right off. But yes, the Turing Test. It's like, it still exists today. Like, we still use it as that baseline for, like, the debate involving artificial intelligence. Like, it's like, oh, computers can think. But, like, here's the thing. Modern AI, which is just like burning cities and draining lakes, is so wild to me because it's not intelligent, because you put things through AI and it. It's. It's just a text scrambler, really. It scrapes information and it puts it together, but it doesn't put it together correctly. Because I have, on occasion, I've asked, chat, GPT and stuff. Like, I've tested it out where I'll ask for information regarding, like, something in history specifically. I'm like, hey, tell me about abc and. And without a doubt, it will give me the incorrect information every single time. Like, it's rare that I will get, like, something in chronological order because I could go in and I was like, give me the chronological order of the major events in so and so's life. And without a doubt, it will fuck, like, half of that up, right? It'll be completely bollocksed. Like, I saw somebody ask it to put the starkid musicals in chronological order, and it, like, not only put them in the wrong order, but it also gave them different names. So M A M D, which is me and my dick. Like, it changed to, like, myself and my depression. Like, it just changed the names. But yeah, it's. It's funny because the amount of people that will type something into Google and will just, like, screenshot whatever the AI has said and then send it back to me. And I'm like, no, no, no. Quote a paper, right? Like, quote a scientific journal. Quote something that's real. Quote a respected historian. Like, do something, right? Don't just share your bullshit, right? I have no time for it because it's just a predictive text thing. That's basically what the shitty AI is. And also, if you want to, like, hoodwink the AI, just shove a swear word in there. Because, like, if you ask for, like, it's like, give me the fcking list of matches games by Boston Celtics. Like, there won't be an AI thing there because the word fcking is in there. And I, I found that out because somebody told me so. And then I tried it because I'm like, why are you automatically having AI involved in the thing? I don't want AI. I want an option to not have AI. I would pay money, right? I would pay to have a browser that would not automatically use AI. Telling you I would, I would pay for that service. Cuz that. Anyway, back to Alan Turing. You know what, let's just, let's just take a minute to cool off. Commercial.

Mia (52:14)

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon.

Katie Charlwood (52:23)

Yep.

Mia (52:23)

Get a new phone on any plan with select phone. Trade in and my plan and locked on a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.

Stem Regen Representative (52:44)

Say hello to Mia.

Katie Charlwood (52:46)

Hey there.

Stem Regen Representative (52:46)

Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago. But getting new clients was rough until.

Mia (52:51)

I started using Acast. I recorded my ad, targeted pet owners in the area and let Acast do the rest of the. Now people all over the city know about my grooming services.

Stem Regen Representative (52:59)

Mia's business is looking sharp. What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients?

Mia (53:03)

A fresh cut, a friendly vibe and a well placed podcast ad.

Stem Regen Representative (53:08)

Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go acast.com advertise to get started.

Katie Charlwood (53:17)

Quick. And we have returned. Hello. Did you enjoy that moment away from me? I bet you did. So, personal life now. Weird. I've done this twice now. I've done this twice in a row where I've just gone, here's professional, here's personal. So personal life. Here we go. So when he's like at Bletchley, when he's working in the huts and whatnot, he gets engaged to Joan Clark and yeah, played by Keira Knightley in the imitation gay movie. I'm just, I'm just saying. Anyway, and so they get engaged in 1941 and it doesn't like last. Like it would have been a lavender marriage. See, here's the thing, Turing. He ends up telling her that he's gay, right? He ends up admitting to her and she's like, that's cool. Like, no worries. And it's very much like a marriage of convenience really, because she gets her freedom by being able to be with him because like she's smart. She's able to live with him. And he then decides that he's gonna break off the engagement because he doesn't see it as fair to her or fair to himself. He's dealing with a lot of his own feelings, and so he ends up breaking off their engagement. And he doesn't really have any major relationships for a while until 1952. And he gets into a relationship with Andrew Murray. Not the tennis player, to my knowledge. Now, Andrew Murray is 19, and Alan Turing is 39. So not super fond of this age gap. It was very typical of the time. Not going to deny that, but, yeah, there's. There's an age gap. And so the very same month that they. You know, that they start the relationship, Turing's house is broken into, and he gets burgled. He gets burgled, right? And Andrew Murray, like, they tell him that they know who the burglar is. Like, they know this. And Alan Turing, he's just like, I'm sorry, what? And so he ends up going to the police, he reports the crime, and. And for some reason, he decides to tell them that he and Andrew Murray are in a relationship. A sexual relationship, which was illegal at the time. Mm. Yeah, that's. That's a factual piece of information. And so even though he was burgled, he was robbed, the police are more focused on the fact that he is a homosexual man in a homosexual relationship. And so both men are charged with gross indecency. And basically, February that year. So, like, this is January, this is February. There's this, like, committal proceeding, which is effectively, you go, guilty, not guilty. And Alan Turing's brother is like, tell them you're guilty. And Alan Turing is like, okay. And so, yeah, he's. He's like, I'm guilty. And he doesn't even try and, like, deny the charges. And he ends up being convicted in March and was told he could either go to jail or be put on probation. However, in order to go on probation, he had to get chemically castrated to ensure he could no longer perform sexual acts with other men, which is fucking gross. And this is gross indecency. No, this is gross indecency. This is indecent and gross. Like, he has to get chemically castrated through injections. A synthetic estrogen that reduced his libido, makes him impotent and caused, you know, a growth of breast tissue. So it made him impotent and gave him boobs. Okay. Like, anyway, fanciful. It's like hrt. Anyway, so because he's convicted. His security clearance was removed. Like he couldn't continue working with the government. So like his cryptographic consultancy for the government, which is like part of that British cypher organization, like, like he just. That was removed. He couldn't work there anymore. And so the company he was originally working for at the time, like the government code in cyber school, becomes the government communication headquarters, like after the war. And so he's still working there. Then his security clearance is removed and so he doesn't have a job. So he could keep his academic job. So he could still be in Cambridge as like the professor, but he couldn't do like the cryptography. Right. And so it's the 1952. So you got the lavender scare, which I've mentioned, I think in the Tula Bankhead episode and I think maybe Marlene Diedrich. So you got that, you've got the red scare. So they think you're like a communist or gay or a gay communist or I don't know, at this point, just a sexy socialist. Ah, God. And so he's working there, he tries to get into the us which he can't actually do as well because he's convicted, because he's got this conviction, he can't enter the us, he can't do work there either. And so a huge part of his life is just gone. And so this is March, three months later, on the 8th of June 1954, Alan Turing's housekeeper found him dead in his home at the age of 41. It is reported that the cause of his death was cyanide poisoning. You know, because they found cyanide in his system and his death had a lot of like weird like bits around it. And so how he died, it's kind of vague, but the agreed sort of statement at the time was that he died by suicide by way of cyanide. Like a cyanide suicide. Which is. Sounds more poetic than it should be. That being said, there have been questions around that. Now you can understand why someone at this point might want to want to do this. So, yeah, I'm gonna talk about this in a little bit more detail. So if you feel uncomfortable, just skip forward like two and a half to three minutes. Three minutes. Skip forward three minutes just for good measure. Okay, so Alan Turingey's found dead. There is a half eaten apple beside his bed. Right? And so it is the 8th June 1954. And at 43 Adlington Road in Winslow, which is his house at the time, Turing's housekeeper comes in to find Alan Turing dead in Their bed, half eaten apple on the bedside table. And so there's this theory that. Several theories about his death, and one of which being that this was death by suicide and that cyanide was in the apple, and that's how this happened. Now, Alan Turing, he had a habit of eating apples before bed. It was just apples. A thing he did. He would have a little bit of apple, sometimes a full apple, sometimes half an apple, you know, wouldn't always have an apple, but most of the time he'd eat an apple before bed. Right. It was just something he did, part of his routine. And apparently he was like a really big fan of Snow White or he was haunted by the story of Snow White, allegedly. And there's this theory that he was trying to, like, reenact, like, Snow White by having a poisoned apple. Now, that's a consideration now. And the reasoning behind this was like, you know, he'd undergone chemical castration, he'd lost his, like, consultancy job. Like, he had a conviction now and he was dealing with all this stuff. And so, like, this, like, in combination with. I mean, if he's taking all these hormones that this affected his mood to the point that he just decided to do this, which is an option, which is a. I don't want to say a valid option, because if things get to a point where you feel there is no other option but to end things, then you have reached. You've fallen down a hole and you cannot see a way out of it. If the pain that you are feeling, you cannot find a light or a flicker of hope to. That is a terrible place to be. And I would never. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I wouldn't wish those feelings on anybody. Those moments of desperation where the only concept of peace comes from ending your life. However, there are some other theories, one of which being that this was a massive accident. So there's a lot of queries regarding the coroner's historical verdict. Now, Turing used to use this apparatus to electroplate gold onto spoons. It was basically to, like, dissolve gold. Not like alchemy, in case you're wondering, Because. Okay, anyway, potassium cyanide was used to dissolve the gold. And so he had one of these, like, set up in his Wii spare room. And there is the possibility that he could have accidentally inhaled potassium cyanide. You know, it's very much something that could have happened. And the coroner's report, it does lean more towards sort of inhalation of fumes as opposed to ingestion of cyanide. And, like, people Argue as well that, you know, he had, like, left a list of things to do, you know, at work. Like a list of things to do for when he got back from his, like, from the bank holiday weekend. And here's. Here's the thing I remember from therapy back when I was going through some really tough times. And it's why I always have a plan. That's why I always have something to do, that's why I always have a future plan. Because if you have a future plan, then you've got something that you're working towards and you're not just gonna stop, because if I. If I stop, I stop anyway. So you have something to work towards. And so making future plans is something that's really important to keep yourself going sometimes. And so we had, like, a list of tasks that he had to, like, do when he came back. And his mum is just like, he was an, like, careless when he was, like, doing stuff in his lab and he accidentally did it. And then there's another theory that goes that he, you know, ended his own life, but did it in such a way that he wanted it to look like an accident as to not upset his mother. And of course, there is the theory that someone did this to him because, like, when his housekeeper comes in, like, she finds him very neatly in the bed, it's not like he'd suffocated and he was flailing from the suffocation of the cyanide poisoning. But could have. He could have been laying a certain way. It could have been. Could have been so many things. But there's a theory that someone did this to him, is part of, like, a Cold War situation, something. I don't know. It's a flimsy. It's a flimsy theory at best. His body is found on the 8th of June and it is confirmed as identified by his brother John on the 9th of June. Now, John, he's. He just agrees with the inquest because he's informed that, you know, it's unlikely that they'll be able to prove it's an accident. So you may as well just let it rest. Now, their mother, she's over in Italy at the time and she comes back and she never believes like, that Alan Turing ended his own life. She just refuses to. Now, John, he gets Alan Turing's remains and they are cremated at the Woking Crematorium on 12 June 1954, which is the day after the inquest. Oh, and for the record, by the way, they never tested the apple for cyanide. I'm just saying. Anyway, Anyway, so on 12 June 1954, Alan Turing is cremated at the Woking crematorium with his mother, Sarah Stoney Turing, his brother John Ferrier Turing and Lynn Newman in attendance. His ashes were scattered in the garden of the crematorium as his father's were before him. And so let's skip forward, you know, half a century, just over half a century, actually, to August 22,009, where British programmer John Graham Cumming starts an online petition to get the British Government to apologise for Alan Turing's prosecution as a homosexual. So they get like, over 30,000 signatures and Gordon Brown, who is the Prime Minister at the time, acknowledged the petition and released a statement in September 2009, apologising and describing the treatment of Alan Turing as appalling. And so, like, this is verbatim, thousands of people have come together to demand justice for Alan Turing and recognition of the appalling way which he was treated. While Turing was dealt with under the law of the time, and we can't put the clock back, his treatment was, of course, utterly unfair and I am pleased to have the chance to see how deeply sorry I, and we all are for what happened to him. So, on behalf of the British Government and to all those who live freely thanks to Alan's work, I am very proud to say we are sorry. You deserved so much better. I wanted to be serious about that, which is why I didn't do a voice. But I think as apologies go, like, that's a fairly decent one. Go Gordon Brown, speechwriters for that one. Like, that is a decent, decent apology. Like, a lot of the time they're kind of like wishy washy or derogatory in some way. So you've got that right. And then in 2011, in December 2011, so two years after this, William Jones and a Member of Parliament, an mp, John Leach, they create another online petition requesting that the British Government pardon Turing posthumously for his conviction of gross indecency. And so, like, he tries to do it and it gets shut down. And so he just keeps submitting bills to Parliament and it ends up bringing this, like, really high level, like, high profile campaign to secure the pardon. He ends up pleading the case to the House of Commons that Turing's contribution to the war made him a national hero and that it was ultimately just embarrassing that the conviction still stood. And so he goes to Parliament, he campaigns for, like, years and he gets, like, public support from, like, scientists, like, even Stephen Hawking, right? And it gets introduced to the House of Lords, gets pushed back down, and they're like, well, technically, he did do it and, like, it was technically a crime, right? And then later that same year, there was a letter to the Daily Telegraph which came from Stephen Hawking and had like. Like Royal Lord Rees, the President of the Royal Society, Sir Paul Nurse, Lady Tropington, who worked for Turing during the war, Lord Sharkey, like, you have like, all of these people, all of these, like, high, like, profile scientific names, right? These. These high profile people. And so, you know, it calls on the Prime Minister, who at this point is David Cameron, the man who put his penis in a dead pig's mouth, in case you're wondering who that is, okay? And so. And they basically called him to make the request go through. And the government's like, okay, we'll support the bell, okay? And so it goes through to the House of Lords in October, which is the third time it was read, and. And this time it gets passed. And so on the second reading of the bill at the House of Commons in 2013, Christopher Cope, a Conservative, are we surprised? No, we're bloody not. He objected the bill, which ends up delaying its passage because of course, it's a fucking Tory. Fuck the Tories. And so it goes back to the House of Commons in February, in 2014, and so they have to proceed under the Royal Prerogative of Mercy. And so In December of 2013, Christmas Eve, actually, Queen Elizabeth II signs a pardon for Turing's conviction of gross indecency with immediate effect. And so the Lord Chancellor, Charles Grayling, announced the pardon and said that Turing deserved to be remembered and recognised for his fantastic contribution to the war effort, not for his later criminal conviction. And the Queen officially pronounced this pardon in October, in August of 2014, and this was only the fourth royal pardon granted since the conclusion of the Second World War. This is out of all the times a pardon has happened. This was only the fourth time. Like, and she ruled for a long fucking time, right? I think she beat, like, Victoria when it came to ruling, like she was there for the long haul. Say what you want about the Royal Family, Lizzie knew how to stick around, right? And so, like, these pardons, like, they were granted people who were technically innocent. So, like, technically, under the eyes of the law at the time, Turing was guilty, right? But when. When you think of how the law was really stupid, right, a really unjust law, like, it makes sense. And so in September 2016, the government announced that it intended to expand the retroactive exoneration of other men convicted of similar historical indecency offenses. And so, like, informally it's known as the Alan Turing Law. And so basically the. Sorry, my mouth can't make words right now. The Policing and Crime act of 2017 served as an amnesty law to retroactively pardon men who were cautioned or convicted under historical legislation that outlawed homosexual acts. And this is like England and Wales. And so Alan Turing is named one of the 100 most influential people of the 20th century by Time magazine in 1999. Time magazine has gone a little bit downhills then. And so, yeah, blue plaques are put all over everywhere for the centenary. So like June 23, 2012. So that's like 100 years since his birth. He has a plaque at like King's College. There's one as like the house in Guildford, I believe. And like, they're all over the place, right? And they created the Turing Centenary act and they worked with Cambridge, Bletchley Park, University of Manchester to create a year long program of events like, all around the world honouring Turing's life and achievements. And so there's like statues all over the place. There's actual, like, There was a 50 pound note that was released in 2021 by the bank of England. And so it's the Queen on the front and Turing on the back. And that was the 50 pound note that was released in 2021 to celebrate Alan Turing and what he did. And so, yeah, Alan Turing, he is a hero and he died too young. And he deserved to be respected and revered and to be able to love without penalty. Again, not super cool on like the March December romance, but he deserved to live and love without fear. You know, he deserved the option and the choice and to continue to contribute the way he had, because who knows what else he could have done. And he created the Turing Test and, and the broken the Enigma code and just. And I, I know I have not done him justice this episode. I know I've. I've missed something or I've overlooked something and he fucking deserved better. And the thing is, even now, even now, there were people who are being stepped on and pushed aside and they are losing opportunities, they are having their lives ruined because they're lgbtqia, because they're neurodivergent, because people would rather tear people apart and step on each other's throats than to link arms and unity. And I think we have to do better. We have to be better. And I know I'll rant every now and again and I'm trying to share Information in a positive way. I'm trying to open minds and be considerate, but sometimes people make it really fucking hard. And sometimes it just makes me so angry because at what point do I get to stop repeating myself? Like, when do I get to talk about something new? You know, I say about history as if it isn't all old, but how many times am I gonna have to explain that Jack the Ripper's victims were not sex workers, that they were victims of society? How many times am I gonna have to turn around and explain that women didn't have rights? How many times am I going to have to explain that indentured servitude in chattel slavery are not the same thing? Like, how do you explain to people that they should care about other people? Like, anyway, thank you for listening to this episode. If you would like to rate and review five stars, that would be amazing. If you don't want to do that, that's fine. If you don't have anything else to say, don't say anything at all. That being said, thank you for listening. And it is recommendation time for watching. You're gonna watch the Bletchley Circle. It has very little Turing in it, but it does have awesome women, and I feel like that's important in life. I mean, you can also watch the Imitation Game if you want, with Biddly Boop Cucumber Snatch. You can do it if you want. I'm not going to stop you. I'm just saying Bletchley Circle because I like things that involve puzzles for reading. There's a book called Reeling in the Queers by Porrick Kerrigan. It's tales of Ireland's LGBTQ past. If you're thinking, well, that's a weird name for a book, it's based on this list thing on Irish TV called Reeling in the Years, and it would, like, do a thing about a certain year. So it's a. It's a. It's a play on words and it's very good. I actually have a copy of it myself. Read it. It's very good. Educate yourself in LGBTQ history. And let me see now for listening. You know what? Kindness. Now, I was thinking about kindness a minute ago. So when I was in la, I was staying with a friend and their housemate and just a bunch of really cool people, and we all hung out and they were just so incredibly lovely. Now, one of those incredibly cool people I was hanging out with, his name is Danny Padilla. D A N N Y P A D I L L A and so his single was released in April, latest one called and so it isn't. Okay, so if you want to go stream that now, please, that would be amazing. Go give him some love. Okay? That's what we're gonna do. We're gonna support each other, we're gonna be kind and considerate. And also I ate his bagel so I feel like I owe him one. Sorry, Danny, I ate your bagel. I'm actually sending like a care package over to them. By the time this is released, I will have already sent it. So. So full of like lovely, delicious like chocolates and teas and stuff. So anyway, anyway, with that I am gonna tell you to be awesome. You're amazing. Listen lads, I appreciate you and I just think we should do what we can to be nicer to each other sometimes. And I want to try and put a little bit of positivity out in the world because I'm not very good at it because negative bias and I want to just try and give something out there. So thank you for listening. I shall bid you goodnight. Adios. Au revoir. Au revoir, my friends. Bye bye. Listen up. You can get the new iPhone 16e with Apple Intelligence for just $49.99 when you switch to Boost Mobile. We pulled so many all nighters to give you this deal and hey, stop messing with the mic.

Acast Representative (82:24)

I'm just helping us catch people's attention.

Katie Charlwood (82:26)

This is a great deal. Exactly. So it doesn't need all that. Fine. Head to your nearest Boost mobile store right now. Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store for full offer details. Apple Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later. Restrictions apply.

Acast Representative (82:40)

Hey there. You hear that, right? You don't? That's what it's like to order food for your workplace with Easycater. No hold music while you wait to place your order. No tap tapping as you type in special dietary instructions or long complicated searches for options in your budget. No crinkling of paper receipts, just dang.

Carvana Representative (83:02)

These are some tasty sandwiches.

Acast Representative (83:05)

Ezcator the better way to order food for work. Order now@ezcator.com Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.

Tech Podcast Host (83:21)

Hey, do you want to hear the next big new tech podcast hit before anyone else? Check out the daily tech news show Experiment Week. We're swapping out our normal shows to try out some new ideas. We've done this before and launched big hits like behind the Data, the Tech John and more. This year we have exclusive Android faithful reactions to the Pixel 9 events. It's all on the DTNS feed starting August 11th. Don't miss it.

Acast Representative (83:52)

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.