← Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood
Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood
183. Gisèle Pelicot - To Hell and Back
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Shame has to Change Sides
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Imagine waking up to breathtaking landscapes, vibrant culture and a welcoming community. New Zealand is calling. If you are a passionate early childhood, primary or secondary school teacher, New Zealand says come teach us. With up to 10,000 New Zealand dollars in relocation support, now is the time to make your move. Find out more about moving to New Zealand to teach@workforce.education.govt NZ open to existing qualified primary, secondary and ECE teachers. Note that this grant is only dispersed after a teacher has arrived in New Zealand and meets the other accompanying criteria ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend Hi, this is Zibby Owens, host of Totally Booked with zibbee. Formerly Moms don't have Time to read Books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest or underrated authors and story creat whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to stay in the know. Get insider insights and connect with guests like Grammy Award winning singer Alicia Keys, critically acclaimed author Judy Blume and Academy Award winning screenwriter John Irving every single day. With Totally Booked, you aren't just listening, you're part of the story. So don't miss out. Follow Totally Booked with Zibby on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Hello delicious friends, and welcome to a special bonus episode of who did what now, the history podcast that is not your history class for International Women's Day 2026 with me, your host Katy Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. So this episode is going to be a little different from what I normally do. So typically I like to keep things at least 25 years in the past because that's that's a full grown adult. Like that's, that's something. However, as a millennial, I keep living through many major historical events in which landscapes, nations and societies keep changing. And like I very nearly called this episode like who's doing what Now Just because I am picking something that's happened within the last five to 10 years, something that I think is very important and a person who I don't feel we have to wait till she dies in order for us to talk about her. If you are listening to this, on day of release, it is International Women's Day and this is during Women's History Month. Now, I am going to talk about some more light and fluffy things near the end of the month, because we're going to need that. But right now I want to talk about someone who could have very easily just crumpled, hidden and allowed the world to overlook what happened to her. And it really shines a light on how society is right now, how easy this is and the challenges we face together. Now, this is going to be difficult for some of you to hear. I am going to be talking about abuse, some sexual assault, rape, Just so many horrible, vile things. Murder. It's going to be awful, it's going to be unpleasant and it's not going to be easy for any of us. If you are in any way sensitive, feel free to skip away. Exit stage left and I will see you next time. But for now, if you're with me, I am going to quit my jibber jabber and get my source on. Our sources are a hem to Life by Giselle Pellico Herges Estabile Papa by Caroline Dorian Qui Unique by Esther Basinga Sisterhood at France's Mass Rape Trial by Diane de Vignemont. And you know, I have so many articles here. I have from Mondres, I have BBC, the Guardian, the New York Times. There are so many articles about this that you just need to type in the Pellico rap trail and you will find information. But I always wanted to try and keep as close to the source as possible. Which is why my main sources for this were both Giselle's book and Caroline's book. Now, are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then let's begin. Giselle Pellico was going through her usual nightly routine. Setting the table for breakfast the next morning, laying out cups, saucers, other assorted crockery, her maison place, everything in its place. She never liked the idea of rushing around in the dark morning searching for the breakfast accoutrements, preferring instead to start the day relaxed and organized. She carefully laid out clothes for the next day for her husband of nearly five decades, Dominique, a pair of trousers and a pink top that their children had got him as a present. 68 year old Giselle liked being organised. She liked order, especially with everything that had been happening to her lately. She had been having a range of health concerns, memory issues and just so much more. And the order it helped center her. On the morning of the 2nd of November, 2020, she and her husband, Dominique, had breakfast together in their little yellow retirement bungalow. Then they got into her car together and he drove them to the Carpentra police station in Avignon. Giselle thought that the worst part of her day was her husband picking a jacket that absolutely did not match the outfit that she had put together for him. She told him so, and he shrugged as they walked out. You see, she thought that she was going to talk to the police as a formality, perhaps as support for her husband's crime from two months previous. Back on 12 September, when Giselle was away visiting their daughter and grandchildren, Dominique had been caught upskirting three women and the Leclerc supermarket. Each one lodged a complaint and Dominique was taken in. When she had returned home from her visit, he broke down sobbing about how he couldn't lose her. She was told of her husband's actions. Well, he told her of his actions and naturally she wasn't happy about it. But to her, this situation could have been much worse. They had had some trials and tribulations in their marriage, and for Giselle, marriage was hard work and they had to work through it together. On top of this, she knew what her husband had gone through as a child, the challenges he faced growing up, and she wanted to be there for him. She was calm, orderly, and she told her husband, comforting him, letting him know that she wasn't going to abandon him. And she stated in no uncertain terms that he was going to have to apologize to each of the women that he had upskirted and that he was going to go to therapy. She made it absolutely clear that if this ever happened again, that she would leave him. But for now, she was going to support her husband. And today the police had specifically asked for her to come to the station with Dominique. Naturally, she would. Her husband, they'd been together since they were teenagers. He was a good man and he had been really taking care of her and her declining health in these recent years since their retirement. He had been there for her and she wanted to be there for him. Covid precautions were in full swing at the police station. The couple put on their little blue face masks and made their way inside. At the station, they were separated. Dominique was taken first. Soon after, the gendarme came for her too. They led her into Deputy Sergeant Perrette's room, where she expected to join her husband, but he wasn't there. Instead, she was sat opposite Perrault, who seemed calm but cautious. There was a sense of unease in the air and Giselle didn't know what she was expecting to be asked. But the questions coming out of the sergeant's mouth were odd. She was far enough away that she could take off her mask. And Perrot, he started asking her some very specific and to her, bizarre questions. Like did she have friends? Did they often invite people over? What was their nighttime routine? Did she and her husband go to bed at the same time? Did she take a lot of naps? How did she feel when she woke up? They asked her about Dominique's personality. They asked personal questions, very intimate questions about her love life with her husband. Like how often did they have sex? Then a question so absurd it shocked Giselle to hear it. They asked the 68 year old grandmother sitting at the table if she was into swinging. The word no came out of her mouth, sharp and resolute. For Giselle, this was a preposterous question. For her, there was no other man for her than her husband. She clearly informed them, for sex there must be love. The man seemed to hold his breath before showing her a photo, then another, then another. Photos of a woman in black suspenders, in risque lingerie. A woman with a man on top of her, behind her. Photo after photo. Giselle couldn't understand why they were showing her these photos of this woman. She couldn't quite process what was happening. Then she noticed things in the pictures. She recognised her bed, her nightstand, her lamp, her bedroom. She didn't recognise this woman with her body sunken, her face almost melted into the bedding, limp, restrained. Then she did. The unconscious woman in the pictures in her bed, in her bedroom was her. She was being shown a photo of her unconscious, with a stranger in her bedroom raping her. Before she could really grasp what was happening, the police kept putting photo after photo in front of her. Hundreds of them. Photos of men she did not recognize. Hundreds of photos of men assaulting her as she lay there, limp and lifeless. Out of the 83 men in these pictures, Giselle only recognized two of them. A neighbour who she would say hello when she met him in town or have a chat in passing, as one does. The other man was her husband of nearly 50 years, Dominique Pelico. Here she was, head swirling, heart racing as her world came crumbling down around her. The life she built with her husband for half a century as she was faced with the mounting evidence of abuse and assault that she had suffered all unbeknownst to her. The police asked her if she wanted to press charges and she blotted out yes. Before she even fully took in the question, the police took a strand of her hair. She signed a statement acknowledging that she was a victim of assault, outwardly agreeing to what was happening around her. Well, inside she was in disbelief. She kept thinking that this couldn't be happening. This wasn't happening to her. This was not real. And unfortunately for Giselle, this was just the tip of the iceberg. The depravity of the man that she thought she knew would reach even more harrowing depths. Giselle was born Giselle Marie Guyou on 7 December 1952 in Villingen, Germany, to Yves Guyou, a soldier in the French army, and Jeanne Proth. She was the second child of the couple, with an older brother, Michel. Her father had fought in the Second World War and after was stationed in Germany at the time of Giselle's birth. They returned to France when she was five, to the Indre. While others were moving out of the countryside, the Guyus, they were relocating to it. Most migration was from the cities and out to suburbia. But the family moved to be close to her maternal grandparents and aunts and uncles. Her father, being a military man, was away more often than he was home. Her papa. But her papa, he loved his wife. Giselle would lose her mother. When she was nine years old, it was discovered that Jeanne had cancer at 28, a brain tumor. Giselle's mother was a source of constant joy in the guillot's lives, always wearing a smile, determined to fight the melancholy and tragedy around her. Over time she weakened, she got smaller and thinner, but she would always try and bring light into the world. Her breasts had basically disappeared, and so she would put oranges under her blouse to make her sister and daughter laugh. She never cried, not once, in front of her children, something that stayed with Giselle. The cancer spread, eating away at her, until she died at age 35. Her father, he had returned home when his wife's health was declining. He was there when she passed. Giselle's mother died with her eyes open, and so her father closed them. Giselle was nine. She thought her mother was asleep, and she grabbed her by the shoulders and shook her, trying to wake her up. But she was gone. Her father broke down. He was not a man prone to tears, often strong, often stoic. But now, at the love of his life, her loss, he cried. The kind of gut wrenching, guttural, ugly cry when you lose someone who is so important to you, he was in pain, he was in sorrow. And her brother, too. He was also struggling with her mother's death. And so Giselle, at the tender age of nine, decided that she had to be strong to be there for them and to comfort them. See, this was not the first death in Giselle's childhood. Her younger cousin had died previously after a severe scalding accident, after which her grandmother adorned mourning garb, wearing black for the rest of her life. Life with her grandparents, peasants from the Indre, a childhood spent chasing after a wheelbarrow with her aunt and her cousins just across a meadow. This was, all things considered, a happy childhood. And after the war in Algeria, Yves Garriloux, he would take a job with the War ministry in Paris. And so she would leave their home, the shadow of the Chateau d' Alze Laferon. Her father would eventually remarry when Giselle was 12. Giselle and her brother Michel, they did not go to the wedding. In fairness, her father didn't let them go to weddings or funerals. He did not want his children to witness that coffin going in the ground, and he did not want them to witness him getting married. So he married a widow, Marie Josephine. And Giselle, she would not go on with her stepmother. She found her strict, harsh and cruel. Now, this led to tensions in their home because growing up, she never received a compliment from her stepmother, who kept telling her that she was fat and looked like a cart horse. Well, her own daughter was a racehorse. She would hide butter and coffee so that Michelle and Giselle could not have any. Like she was an almond mom before almond mom existed. She would hide apples in the washing machine. Who hides apples in a washing machine? She complained they were too fat and they needed to to eat less. And then she made sure that they always at their lunch, at the cafeteria, at their school, she didn't want them coming home for lunch. She made them stay away. She would also do, like, really sneaky, sleek, abusive things, like turn off the hot water when Giselle was in the middle of washing her hair. Like, they said that, you know, oh, they were wasting so much money and she was in there for too long. But like, when you're used to having to boil your water to wash your hair, you know, I say boil your water when you put the boiler on, right? You know that you have a limited amount of time and so you get good at cleaning yourself quickly. As someone who used to live in a little cottage, I can assure you I can have a three minute shower. I can also have a. A 30 minute shower. Like, listen, sometimes you just want to, like, come out pruned, okay? But for Giselle, the less time she spent with her stepmother, the better. And so she decided that during the school holidays she would get a job. So at 14, she worked in a factory in Millemontan assembling phone cases. So, like telephone cases for actual big telephones, like, solid ones. While her brother assembled funeral wreaths. At 16, she was nannying for a wealthy family. A French mother, American father. And they lived on the Boulevard du General Konig in Nuit sur Seine. And so she was there during the school breaks. The family were so impressed with Giselle and the way that she cared for their daughter that they wanted to take her on full time. And so they offered her a full time position with them. This would involve having to travel with them to their various homes in Paris, Hong Kong, Honolulu, Hawaii. Sorry, Honolulu. In Hawaii. And her father just refused to let her go. Was he being protective? Was he worried that this au pair life was going to be dangerous for her? Or did he just want to keep her close? So either way, he put the kibosh on this adventure. And this, this was a turning point for Giselle. She had been prevented from traveling. Her stepmother was demanding 350 francs for room and board, and that was a month now that she was earning a little money. And so Giselle decided that she was going to leave school altogether and work full time and gain her independence. Giselle managed to get a job working as a secretary at a printing press that made bank checks. And when she was 19, in 1971, she returned to the Indre to visit her aunt. And that is where she met this shy boy with long curly hair and a Breton sweater. And he was working for them. For Giselle, this was love at first sight. Unlike the boys of Paris, he had no airs or graces. And he was at her aunt Andrea's more often than he was at his own home. He stayed for dinner, and that was it for her. Over the coming months, she would visit nearly every weekend to be with him. She would come back with assorted colognes and sweaters from Paris, and they courted for nine months before they slept together for the first time. Giselle never wanted to rush into a sexual relationship, because for Giselle, for sex there must be love. Now, he was a bit more ready to go than she was, but he didn't pressure her. He waited until she was ready, which shocked her when she looked back. After everything that would come to light about him. Two years after they first met, Dominique and Giselle wed. And Giselle, like was the norm of the time, took her husband's surname and became Giselle Pelican. They married in April 1973 and moved to Bruno, near Paris. They would go on to have three children together, David, Caroline and Florian. The Pellico children would go on to say that for the most part, their childhoods were normal and that Dominique was a doting father who loved his wife and kids. But it's easy to look back at a home life and see it more idyllic than it actually was. Both Pellico parents worked, although Giselle certainly had more stable employment than her husband. She took time off to raise the children, the first two, so David and Caroline. But financially, she needed to work to keep them afloat. A logistics manager, a bookkeeper, upgrading to hr, something that fitted her stellar organizational skills and management. She would train and upskill, sometimes treading just to keep their heads above water. When Florian was born, she couldn't afford to take time off work to raise him, other than her maternity leave. When it was over, she went straight back into the office. Meanwhile, Dominique seemed to bounce from job to job. He tried his hand at being a real estate agent, but he was not a very good one. He had trained as an electrician. He was always good with gizmos and gadgets, so he was at that for a bit before joining the EDF as a salesman. So Giselle also worked for edf and he's, he's there for a while and this didn't last too long either. He ended up starting his own company, which shockingly, went bankrupt. Giselle effectively is not only the breadwinner for the family, but she is the one keeping everything in play. She is basically balancing her books. She's being frugal to ensure that they can survive. Like, she didn't want her children to go through the same poverty that, that they were struggling with. And so she ensured that they went to a private school. And this, this was costing a pretty penny. But they did without in order to make sure that their children had a better life. Giselle was the only one with a consistent job. And Dominique's terrible financial skills resulted in bailiff showing up at the house with the police to remove every piece of furniture except from the children's beds. Caroline would have been, I think, 12 when this happened. The financial stress, well, it put pressure on their marriage. Dominique's debts forced them to struggle in Giselle staying by her husband's side through these financial Difficulties showed the couple to be stronger together, with friends and family. Commenting on just how great their marriage was, however, the children did mention that at least once in their formative years that they saw their father act violently towards their mother, grabbing her by her shirt collar and pinning her against a wall. This fleeting moment of violence aside, Giselle completely trusted her husband. He was the love of her life since she was 19. He took the kids to school and picked them up to dance classes. He helped them through times of strife, emotional turmoil. He was involved, he was communicating, he was open, he was involved to the outside world, even for them, from the inside, when they were loving it to him, to them, he was a good father, he was a good man. As time went on, Giselle and Dominique became grandparents. They spoke to their children and grandchildren all the time. They visited, they played football and cycled. When the Pellicos retired in 2013, they moved south to the town of Maison in Provence. It was no surprise that whenever the school holidays rolled around that the pillow, children and grandchildren would migrate to this beautiful area to spend time together. Family time for sure, but also the pool that they would get their strokes in. They would have dancing competitions and play board games like Trivial Pursuit. Then of course, there were the pretty lavender fields, which may or may not be full of very etchy beasties. The Marche Jourdan and of course the fete that would run in the summer. It was idyllic. These cherished happy memories of their lives would be referred to as a comedy of tranquillity by Giselle and Dominique's daughter Caroline. Looking back on those happy memories, they're all tainted now. Three years before the couple's relocation to Provence, Dominique was arrested in a supermarket for upskirting women. Yes, this happened before. He had been caught filming under women in girls skirts with a pen camera by security guards. The police fined Dominique a grand total of €100 and sent him on his way. Well, not quite. They did take a sample of his DNA, which was standard procedure, and then they let him go. Giselle saw this act as a blip in their marriage, something to work on and get over. She didn't want to tell the children. She didn't want them to, to suffer through this or be embarrassed. And so she decided that we were going to work through this. He was going to go to therapy and, you know, get better was the goal, you know, and she knew what Giselle had gone through in his life, in his childhood, and it made it easy for her to rationalize his actions. I think at that point in comparison to her childhood, that Dominique Pellico's childhood was bleak. 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Giselle grew up surrounded by love and compassion, whereas Dominique didn't have that same affection in his household. When she lost a mother at nine years old, her family were there for her. When Dominic was nine, he had been assaulted by a male nurse when he was in hospital. On top of this, his family dynamics were not pleasant. His mother, Juliette, was originally married to his uncle Andre, who just abandoned her one day before their divorce was finalised. She was already in a relationship with Andre's younger brother, Denis pellico, who was 10 years her junior. Denis was aggressive and loud. Dominique's brother Joel was away training in medicine. Meanwhile, Dominique was seen as a lowly electrician. Their half sister Genevieve had gotten married and left that house as soon as she could. The house was cramped. One bedroom was for Dominique's grandfather, a war veteran suffering from Parkinson's. Dominique shared a room with Nicole, a ward from the state that had learning difficulties. She was brought into the household when she was five years old. Denis and Juliette would sleep in the living room. Joel and Dominique had tried to get Nicole taken out of their family's care and brought somewhere safer. They tried to get social services or the French equivalent to get her away for her own safety because for years Denis Pellicaut, their father, had been sexually assaulting the girl. After the death of Juliette, the 58 year old Denis would officially announce his relationship with 28 year old Nicole, the girl he was responsible for since she was five years old. The girl who when Giselle met her for the very first time, was still holding onto a teddy bear. Giselle's childhood was a happy one in the countryside. So it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to think that a move to the picturesque Provence was for her benefit, so that her final years could be as joyful as her early ones. But this move was very much Dominique's idea. And it put around 400 miles, that's about 643 kilometers between the couple and their children. Before picking this spot, he had suggested other rural areas. But Giselle was determined to have access to a train, especially a high speed train that could get her to and from the children and grandchildren. So easy travel. They had been working from young ages, since they were teenagers. And so Giselle thought that this, this was going to be the time of their lives, that they were going to relax and enjoy their sunset years. But not long after the move to Maison in Avignon, Giselle's health took a turn for the worse. She had always been very particular about her health and well being. She didn't smoke, nor did she overindulge when it came to alcohol. She wasn't a big drinker. Now she did like keeping fit and going for walks, especially with her bulldog, Lancome. That's what a la compan is for, was it not? She was in her 60s now and she was having bouts of memory loss. Entire conversations or days lost. She would forget conversations that she had with her children. She spoke on the telephone, often to them, so she didn't know if she'd said goodbye to them, what they talked about. She forgot films that she had watched the night before. One day she woke up with a haircut. Panicked, she raced to see her hairdresser, who informed her that she had been there the day before and she didn't remember any of it. Her hairdresser was actually very glad to see her because she said that when she was cutting Giselle's hair that she seemed to be blank, like staring forward, not quite with it. And she was glad to see that she was okay. Giselle's mother died from a brain tumor and so this was Giselle's first thought, her initial wave of fear. Was she going to waste away and die? La Cremeont, leaving behind devastated children and her husband. Perhaps it was Alzheimer's or dementia conditions that were being highlighted. More than ever, Giselle was terrified that she was losing her mind, she was losing time. And Dominique, he was there for her throughout this ordeal. He made the appointments for her, the scans, the screens, and he held her hand through all of it. Each scan came up clear. No tumour in her brain, no shadows on the x Ray. The bouts of amnesia, though, were only one issue. She was exhausted, as if suffering from chronic fatigue. One of her arms stopped working properly. She would just lose control of it. Then there were urinary and gynecological issues. Her bladder would just empty without warning. She'd wake up in the morning, her pajamas soaked, or she would suddenly get a feeling like her waters had broken. She'd been through that experience three times before, so she knew what that was like. She was getting other pains, and so she was visiting neurologists and gynecologists, and at one point, she had an inflamed cervix, and they warned her to just stop having sex. Giselle felt that she and her husband had a healthy sex life. Nothing too much better than most couples that had been together for five decades. They were intimate five, maybe six times a month, always initiated by Dominique. He always had a higher sex drive than she did, and that was normal to her. Men were more carnally inclined than women. That's just to her, how things were. He always respected her boundaries. If there was something she didn't want to do, well, he wouldn't badger or pester. A no was a no. So when the gynecological issues started that she had no explanation for, Dominique accused her of having an affair. She vehemently denied it. The couple had both had romantic dalliances in the past. They had affairs. They were brief, and they were decades before. But with her blackouts and memory problems, she really had to question. Had she slept with someone else? Had she done it and not remembered? One night, she awoke to find Dominique having sex with her. He told her that he thought she was awake and to just go back to sleep. At the time, she wrote it off as just another memory blackout incident. She really trusted her husband and never really occurred to her that anything nefarious was going on. Her children were becoming concerned. Her scans led no clues as to what had been happening to her. In 2018, Florian, her youngest, was visiting his parents when he saw it happen right in front of him. No sooner had Giselle sat down to dinner than both her elbows gave way and her body hung there like a rag doll, staring blankly as though in a trance. Florian, unsurprisingly, freaks out. He's worried about his maman. Dominique's concerned, too, but tells his son that this happened from time to time when she had too much activity. So not only is he sort of brushing it off, dismissing it, but he's blaming this whole incident on Florian and his family being around and draining Giselle of energy. He suggested they put her to bed and that she'd be well in the morning. But Dominique was a little worried, so he was trying to knock her out. He had just given her a dose that kicked in way too early. The following year, Giselle was so concerned by these amnesiac bursts that she stopped driving, worried she'd be a danger on the road. She stopped taking the train by herself because she was afraid she'd miss her stop. Dominique became her chauffeur, driving her to all of her appointments. He's playing the part of the doting husband, her rock. From an outside perspective, he's so considerate and caring. But what he's doing here is he's isolating her. Which brings us to the upskirting incident in September 2020, when Giselle is on the he an island on the Atlantic off the coast of France, where her daughter Caroline and son in law Pierre had a holiday home. She often went to help look after her grandchildren. During the breaks from school, she was ma m nou, the traveling grandma. That weekend she had been helping with her grandson Maxime, when she got a call from Dominique. Sounding agitated, he said he'd lost his mobile phone and he had to get a new code to activate one. It was sent to her mobile and he needed it. She obliged, confused by his sudden disarray. In mid October, the following month, she had visited her son David and his wife Celine. He was due to undergo minor surgery, and so she was there to look after grandson Nathan and her granddaughters, the twins Clemence and Charlize. It was here that she received a phone call from the carpenter police. They wanted to interview her. She informed them that she would be back on October 21st. But they bluntly informed her that they would have to see her on November 2nd. She thought it was odd that the police wanted to interview her. Her husband had made a foolish mistake, one that he was going to make up for and apologize and go to therapy. Little did she know that in less than a month she would be shown hundreds of photographs, evidence of the abuse perpetrated by her husband and strangers that he invited into their home or over the last 10 years. After that day at the police station, she was told that she shouldn't be alone. An officer drove her to her house, the yellow, provincial, single story home that she was planning to spend her retirement years in. And she was on autopilot. She washed Dominique's pyjamas and put them on the clothesline to dry. She ported about, cleaning, tidying, just keeping Herself busy, having to keep herself busy until her neighbor Sylvie came around just to be with her. The police officer had returned later to make sure that there was someone with her. He seemed relieved. However, that was not the only reason for the visit. He needed another sample of her hair. The police required more strands of her hair to test for chemicals. Basically, hair can show if you have been receiving drugs for a long period of time. And they would show and it would come out in court. One by one, Giselle called her children. This was news that she wanted to break herself. She was concerned about telling her daughter. Caroline, the middle child was what Giselle referred to as highly strung. Where Giselle was composed and reserved, Caroline was the opposite. Her emotions came to the surface and she had a temper. She made sure Pierre was with her when she told her what had happened to her. Sylvie's husband, unaware of what the right thing to do was in this situation, had brought over a bottle of champagne and put it in the fridge, just in case. Not much of a drinker, but Giselle polished off that glass of champagne. For once, she needed it. She spoke to her children, explaining that their father drugged her, raped her and helped others rape her, and that he was taken by police. David, her eldest son, only responded with, I have to go, Mama. She found out later that he had hung up and vomited. Caroline screamed. A shriek, she said it was like the howl of a wounded animal. Florian, the youngest, was calm, asking how and where she was. Giselle told him that she was staying in Sylvie's guest room, that she wasn't alone. And once he hung up the phone, Florian collapsed in shock. In Sylvie's guest room, Giselle could not sleep. Rest was not on the agenda, and her three children kept calling, checking in, worried, every 15 minutes. It was during one of those calls that Caroline said to her mother that the memory lapses, the blackouts, they must be connected to the assaults. Something that Giselle had not put together yet, when Dominique had been caught taking photos under women's skirts in the Leclerc supermarket. Because this was a repeat offence, the police had seized his phone and computer, upon which they found over 20,000 images and videos, all of which had been neatly organised in a file labelled Abuse. While Giselle was trying to piece together the fragments of her life, the police were working on identifying the 83 men that were in the photos. It didn't take them long to discover just how exactly Dominique found these men. He was a frequent flyer, if you will, of The Absolute Trash Fire 7th Ring of Hell website coco.fr a site that was eventually shut down in June 2024, thanks to a combined task force from Bulgaria, France, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania and the Netherlands. It was basically a chat site without registration or moderation. All you had to do was put in your age, gender code, postal and a nickname. It was a fan of predators, used to coordinate homophobic attacks, gang rapes, racist attacks, child sexual abuse connected to over 20,000 police cases and judicial proceedings. Dominique under the pseudonym Marc Dorian. His favorite forum was Assange un Suites, which translates to without her knowing. On this forum, men would share stories about this incredibly specific form of sexual abuse. Drug facilitated sexual assault and domestic chemical submission. They bragged about how they drugged and raped their partners. And Dominique Pelago was posting on this forum as early as July 2011, two years before they moved to Maison. He posted openly about how much he enjoyed what he called rape mode. He waxed on about how he drugged his wife with sleeping pills and he would do all the things that she would never have agreed to. He would film these assaults and post them on the forum. How long had he been practicing to get the mix and dose right? Because that's not a first time thing. He would mix sleeping pills with anxiolotics, anti anxiety meds in the house. They would later find Viagra, Zolpidem and Lorazepam. He would also ensure that he mixed in a little bit of muscle relaxant. He made sure to give it to her the day after the attacks. I have a theory that he mixed in a little bit with everything anyway, just to ensure that she didn't have internal bruising. He tried out different combinations over the years and he hid them in the garage, in boots, in socks. Hundreds and hundreds of pills. He ordered 450 pills in one year. Like how did this not raise any flax? Giselle remembered occasions where Monsieur Pellicot gave her a drink that was odd, like a cocktail with a weird test or a beer that was glowing green. When she commented on them being weird, he would just dump them down the sink. His favourite concoction he would crush and mix into her mashed potato, her coffee, her glass of wine, carefully tailoring the amounts to give the desired effect without too many side effects. It's no surprise that when Giselle was well and truly through the menopause that this starts escalating. They move to Maison, he drugs her, he rapes her and then offers to let other men rape his drug induced comatose wife. He'd contact them through the forum and then make arrangements via Skype. He'd Tell them to wait in a school car park nearby until sending them the all clear. They would come to his house, undress in the kitchen, as to not to leave any clothes in the bedroom. They couldn't wear aftershave or cologne. They weren't allowed to smoke beforehand. They had to wash their hands with warm water, lest they wake her up with a cold touch. If she moved or seemed to be waking up, they had to leave. He never made any of these men wear a condom, even when he knew they had hiv. He never took payment for this abuse. He just did it for his own enjoyment. He would dress Giselle in lingerie that she would refuse to wear. Afterwards, he cleaned her body and changed her clothes so that she would be none the wiser. The gendarme identified over 200 counts of rape perpetrated by at least 92 men. Only three men that arrived and saw Giselle unconscious left, but they didn't report this. They saw what was being done to her, but they just left her there. Out of the 92 men in the files, the police were able to identify 83 separate men, but could only track down about 52 of them. Many of the men claimed that they believed that Giselle was in on it, that she liked to be sedated, or that she was pretending to be asleep, that they were promised a casual threesome. Unfortunately for these men, Dominique, his lawyers and the conversations on Coco Fr poked a massive hole in their shitty little lies. The day after Dominique had been arrested, all three Pelico children traveled to see Giselle in Avignon to offer support or something. David and Florian, they were searching their father's personal belongings. His books, his boxes, anything for a clue. Caroline, however, was angry. She started smashing plates. Her childhood, her life, her father. Everything was a lie. She wanted to tear it all down. There was a painting that hung, one that she had always wanted, one that she had asked her father for when he passed. It was the painting of a naked woman from behind, painted by Dominique. Caroline raced towards it, tore at it, ripping the canvas off the wall. Then she saw on the back a word. A word that sent a rage flying through her body. The painting was named coercion. Giselle was despot for normalcy. Caroline wanted to turn the house to ash, like her memories. It wasn't long before they were brought to the police station. In question, Caroline point blank asked the officers if her father ever showed remorse. They told her no. To make matters worse, the police informed Caroline that along with the thousands of pictures and videos of Giselle being assaulted, there were also pictures of other women. Caroline was shown a picture of a woman lying on a bed in her underwear. The light was on and the covers were off. She looked like she was intoxicated and posed. Caroline then came to the shocking realisation that the young woman in the picture was her. The photo had been shared on the forum under the title of my whore of a daughter. Another was superimposed to a picture of unconscious Giselle. Another had male genitalia superimposed onto the image too. Caroline returned to the house in Mazan. She was terrified. Had she been abused by her own father? She was suspicious and so were her brothers. That night, she didn't want to sleep alone. Giselle feared that if she joined her, if she snuggled up next to her daughter in that room, that she would break. She couldn't allow that. She felt like she had to adorn armour to survive tragedy. And she wanted to get her life back. She wanted the comfort of her own bed, hers. Florian dragged his mattress into his sister's room and slept on the floor as to not leave her alone. The next day, Caroline was speaking to a psychologist who suggested that it was highly likely that she had been raped by her father, a suggestion that was supported by Dominique's brother, Joel. Giselle was still grasping what was happening to her family. She told them nothing could be ruled out, but they had to wait for the evidence to come in. Giselle would go on to say that this would sound like denial to her children's ears, but to her, this was leaving it open until it was confirmed. Now I get where Giselle's coming from. She's hoping that she didn't fall in love with someone who could rape his own daughter. She doesn't want to believe it. Caroline just breaks down and emergency services are called. They take her to the psychiatric emergency room and then she spends the night on a psych ward under observation. While she's there, the police speak to the rest of the Pelico and they start thinking back to things that, you know, were odd at the time but now seemed nefarious. They mentioned the grandchildren, talking about trying to wake up Mamenu in 2019 but couldn't. And they got scared. They had mentioned seeing strange flashing red lights when they played by the pool. They brought up how their grandfather offered to get them sweets if they took off their clothes, and how he grumbled how they never wanted to play doctor anymore with him. Doctor involved them having to take their clothes off. Things that seemed awful innocuous at the time now had everyone ready to explode In a small grace, there were no visits from the cuckoo forum when the grandchildren were around. It would also come to light that hidden cameras were placed around the house and photos were taken of both of his daughters in law. Daughter in laws. One of those is correct. Cracks would begin to show in the family. Pillarcon.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching your insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame. You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
- [57:54]
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Wow.
- [57:55]
A
Way to go. So, about that picture frame.
- [57:58]
B
Ah, forget about it.
- [57:58]
A
Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
- [58:01]
B
Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Florian would return to the house in Marzan with his mother to clear it of what they could. Anything that could be sold was swiftly and cheaply. They just wanted it gone. Remember Dominique's terrible business acumen? Well, when they were clearing the house, they uncovered buckets and buckets of debt that he had sunk the family into. And so much, if not all, of it, was in Giselle's name. Caroline, once again was upset, fearing that she was going to be thrown into poverty to pay for her father's debts now that he was in prison. Giselle had always been frugal. She thought that she could figure out a debt repayment plan. She had been a bookkeeper, after all. She knew how to manage her numbers. Giselle left the yellow house, the color of Provence with two suitcases and her bulldog, Lancome, to get ready to divorce Dominique and get her life back. In the following months, Giselle reconnected with an old friend, Pascal. One who had left her life thanks to Dominique. Being an absolute creep, she divorced Dominique and took back her maiden name, Giselle Guillot. She spoke to her children, grandchildren and psychiatrist who was available every hour of the day, just in case. That first Christmas was tough on the pelican. Giselle had been staying with Florian. Her daughter Caroline brought Maxime to visit. But she was struggling to be around her mother because she felt that her mother didn't want to believe that she married a man who would abuse his own children and grandchildren. She felt that her mother didn't believe that anything had happened to her. In February 2021, Dominique Pilico would receive an eight month suspended sentence for the upskirting incident in the supermarket. While Dominique was behind bars, the police were investigating about two years, trying to uncover every man involved in this horrible scheme. But the identities of these men were not all they found. Two cold case investigators had travelled to the Marseille prison to Visit Dominique in October 2022 and they believe that he was connected to two crimes in Nantes in 1991 and 1999. Sophie Noem and a woman referred to only as Estella. On 4 December 1991, Sophie Nom, a real estate agent in her early 20s, was was expecting to show an apartment in northeast Paris. The appointment had been made under a false name and when Sophie showed up, chemicals were used to subdue her. She had been tied, stabbed, raped and killed. On 11 May 1999, another real estate agent in her twenties, Estella, arrived at a viewing, which would later be discovered to be under a false name too. Estella let the man into the apartment when he suddenly grabbed her by the throat, held a box cutter to her carotid artery. He forced her onto her stomach, tied her hands behind her back and pressed a compress soaked in ether over her mouth. Ether, the chemical that the Victorians deemed too dangerous. Ether. The people whose wallpaper was poisoning them. As Estella started to go under, the attacker took off her shoes and trousers and made her touch him. Somehow she managed to fight back and escape. DNA was still in its infancy really at this point, and some was taken from Estella's shoe and the carpet of the apartment. Traces of this DNA would be a match for the DNA sample taken back from that first upscorting arrest. Back in 2010, Dominique admitted to seeing Estella through a real estate agency window, was taken over with lust and lost all impulse control. Even though he clearly committed a premeditated attack, he did not agree that this was an attempted rape. The DNA from Sophie's case had somehow disappeared. Giselle was contacted regarding the murder and attempted rape. Now, the attempted rape is one thing because she knew that he was capable of that, but she didn't believe that her husband was capable of cold blooded murder. I mean, no one wants to believe that they were married to a monster. The Pelico rape trial was Garnering public attention. And Giselle was upset that her lawyer seemed to be chasing the fame train, giving sound bites into every microphone she came across. By now, Giselle had relocated to the heu, somewhere far away from the bad memories. She had found community and connection. It was here that she would be connected to a new lawyer. One who wouldn't be the drama and who wanted their name and lights. No, she wanted someone sturdy who would support her through the trial. And she found two men, Stefan and Antoine. Initially, Giselle was going to be anonymous. She went through the name options. Francoise Marie P. Options to protect her and her family when on the he got a second chance at love. Jean Loup, a widower who matched her energy. Her children were delighted that she found someone. As the trail grew closer, Giselle was forced to face the evidence and watch each and every video of her being raped. Each one more harrowing than the last. Her husband. A man she did not know. A man she did. Gratuitous lingerie, her body flopping limp, lifeless. A courgette. A man forcing fellatio on the comatose woman. The sound of choking, suffocating coming from her. Men using her every orifice, never with protection. And her husband filmed the whole thing. Just before the trial, Giselle had a revelation. What happened to her? Men within a 50 kilometer radius of her home had done this to her. At least 83, 50 of which she would see in court. She decided to be brave, to not give them the ability to hide. And that shame had to switch sides. She should not be shamed for being the victim of an attack. It's the attacker who should feel shame. Basically, she could keep her ex husband and the rapist's name out of the press. But instead she said fuck this for a game of soldiers and just did it. She told her lawyers, who were shocked, they wanted to make sure that she was prepared for the onslaught of the press, media and public opinion. But Giselle was determined. When the court came into session and one of the five judges presence. Yes, it's a five judge trial. One queried whether she wanted an open court. Waiving anonymity like this was not a thing that was done. It was usually done in closed court. It usually kept the press out and it kept names out of the papers. The defence tried to argue for a closed court, but unfortunately for them, that choice lays with the prosecution, not them. Giselle wanted to ensure that if any other women woke up with Giselle wanted to ensure that if any other women woke up questioning their memories, they might remember the testimony of Ms. Pelican. No woman should suffer from being drugged and victimized other than Dominique. Defendants came from all walks of life, with most of them within the 50 kilometer radius of the Pellicon village of Mazan. They were firefighters, security guards, soldiers, lorry drivers, journalists and a DJ, which earned them the name Monsieur Toulement, Mr. Everyman. Most of them had children. Many of the men challenged the rape accusations. Some said they thought she was in on it. Others laughed it off, saying that if they wanted to rape somebody, it wouldn't be a woman in her sixt. Some men admitted it. One apologised. Dominique clearly admitted that he facilitated the raping of his wife and that these men were rapists. The men ranged in age between 27 and 76. 50 were brought to trial and two had died before the trial came to the courts. 33 of the accused were walking free until the verdict. 18 were held in custody and one was being tried in absentia. The 51 men were represented by 49 separate lawyers. Oh, and the maximum sentence for rape in France was 20 years each. Some of the men apologised for their behaviour. Many have not. And because I'm a petty bitch, I'm going to tell you all of their names. Dominique Pellecan. Guilty of aggravated rape on his ex wife Giselle. Also guilty of the attempted aggravated rape of the wife of one of the co accused, Jean Pierre Marechal, and taking indecent images of his daughter Caroline and his daughters in Lawrence and Celine. He was sentenced to 20 years. Jean Pierre Marechal. Guilty of attempted rape and aggravated rape of his wife as well as drugging her. Sentenced to 12 years. He is the only one of the 51 who was not accused of raping or attempting to rape Giselle. The 63 year old admitted to following Dominique Pellicot's lead, drugging his own wife for five years, raping her and inviting Dominique to rape her too. Charlie Arbon. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 13 years. He was 30. Cyril Davy. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. He was a father of two. Christian Les Cole. Guilty of aggravated rape. Acquitted of having child abuse imagery. Sentenced to nine years. He was a volunteer firefighter and father of two daughters. Lionel Rodriguez. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. And he was employed in the same supermarket where Dominique Pellico got caught in 2020. He was 44. Nicolas. Guilty of aggravated rape and having child abuse imagery. Sentenced to eight years and banned from working in jobs with children for several years. Several years. Not all of the years. He was a 43 year old freelance journalist. Jacques Cuban. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 5 years. 73 year old lorry driver, divorced father of two. Patrice Nicole. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. 55 year old electrician, father of two. Thiers Parisi. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. He was 454. Simon MacKenzie. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentently to nine years. He was a construction worker and father of six who lived next door to the Pere licon. He was 43. Nazar Hamida. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 10 years. He was a hairdresser, builder and delivery driver. He was 40. Boris Moulin. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. Delivery driver, 37 years old. Jerome Vier. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 13 years. Former firefighter, supermarket employee, divorced. Father of two. 46 years old. Didier Sambucci. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to five years. Retired lorry driver, father of two. 68. Clintin Enibel. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to seven years. Former prison guard, ambulance driver, 34 years old. Philippe Lelue. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to five years. Two of them are suspended. A gardener, 62 years old. Jean Luc La. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 10 years. Father of four, 46 years old. Fabian Sutton. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 11 years. Father of three. Has a criminal record of domestic violence and sexual assault of a minor. Karim Seboy. Guilty of aggravated rape and having child abuse imagery. Unmarried IT specialist. Sentenced to 10 years. 40 years old. Joan Coille. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 10 years. He raped Giselle the same night his daughter was born. Jean Marc Leloux. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to six years. We're not even halfway there. The 74 year old was a retired lorry driver. Andy Rodriguez. Guilty of attempted rape and aggravating factors. He had domestic violence charges. Sentenced to six years. 37 years old. Vincent Goulet. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 10 years. Also had domestic violence. 43 years old. Adrienne Langeron. Guilty of aggravated rape and child abuse imagery. Sentenced to six years. He was jailed in 2020. He was 34 years old. He was jailed because he had stalked and raped former girlfriends. Hugh Malago. Guilty of attempted rape and two aggravating factors. Sentenced to five years. Tyler. 39 years old. Ahmed Tabarak. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. He had a boxing club. He was married for 30 years. He's not married now and he was sentenced to eight years. 54. Husametin Dogan. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to nine years. Belder. Father of one. Drug trafficking. 43 years old. Romain Van de Velde. Guilty of attempted rape. Sentenced to 15 years. HIV positive. 63. Joseph Coco. Guilty of aggravated sexual assault. Sentenced to three years. Father of one. Divorced. 69. Seiferdine Garbi. Acquitted of rape and attempted rape. Guilty of sexual assault. Lorry driver, father of three. Sentenced to three years. 37. Jean Tirano. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. Ruffer. 52. Mohammed Rafa. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentently to eight years. Retired DJ and club manager. Sentenced to eight years. Did I say sentenced to eight years already? Anyway. 70. Ludovic Blumer. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentered to seven years. Former firefighter and warehouse worker. His baby was three years old when he went to rape. Chazelle. He was 39. Patrick Aaron. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to six years. He actually has medical issues, so he's not actually in. He has to be in like a special jail anyway. He was married for 25 years. Father of two. 60. Abdullahi Dalal. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. He's currently free last time I checked, as he also needs to be in a special unit thanks to his medical condition. He's 47. Gregory Sevillon. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. Painter and decorator. 33. Cedric Guessault. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentently to 12 years. Delivery driver. 50. Cedric Venzon. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentences to nine years. He was managing a hotel in Corsica. 44. Madi Doidy. Guilty of mass rape and drugging. Sentenced to eight years. 36. Thierry Postin. Guilty of aggravated mass rape and drugging. Possession of child abuse, imagery. Sentenced to 12 years. Banned from working with children for life. Refrigeration specialist. Divorced father of three. 61. Florian Rocca. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to seven years. The father of three, he was already convicted at the time with theft and driving without a license and various drug related offences. Dominique Davies. Aggravated rape. Laurie driver. Sentenced to 13 years. 45. Cyprien Culeiras. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to six years. He had eight prior convictions. 45. Matthieu D'. Artagnan. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentened to seven years. Former baker, two children, 53 years old. Cyrelle Bobby. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 9 years. Lorry driver. 47. Paul Cocoy Grojugi. Guilty of activated rape. Sentenced to 8 years. 31. Omar Durie. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 8 years. Employed by a cleaning company. 36. Redouan Azuga. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentently to 9 years. The 40 year old father of two had previous convictions for domestic violence. Hassan Uamu. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to 12 years. He's currently on the run in Monaco. He's 30. Ridouan El Farihi. Guilty of aggravated rape. Sentenced to eight years. When Giselle took the stand, she did not mince her words. She told the men that none of them were forced to rape her. They did not have a gun to their head. Not one reported what was happening, especially those who left. She was composed, she was authoritative. And because she had her name, she wanted to give her grandchildren a name to be proud of. Not that of a monster, but that of a woman who stood up and fought for justice. Throughout the case, she received letters from victims, women who had suffered, and saw her as a symbol. She kept them in a beautiful box. She moved to the Hee du Rue and is moving on with her life. She's hoping to rebuild connections with her children and grandchildren. Her grandson Nathan is pressing charges against his grandfather. Florian is divorced now because of everything that had happened. Their family is broken because of every horrible act that Dominique decided to do. Giselle held her head high. She walked into that courtroom. Her character was attacked. Her looks, her age, her complexity, everything was under scrutiny. She could have shrivelled away in head, but instead she took a stand. That is the story of Giselle Pilico, a woman determined to live her life with joy. Happy International Women's Day. Now. As you can tell, I was getting kind of full of angry and rage near at the end of this story. And that's. That is just how this story makes me feel. Because even in France, like, rape is considered something that happens under. It's like violence, coercion, surprise attack. Right? It's a violent act. And because. Because Giselle was like, under, because she was knocked out, that these issues, it was something they couldn't really pinpoint. So they had to redefine what this was because consent, the concept of consent legally is such a gray area in France. And I think with everything that's going on now, we really need to take things like that on board. And I think we need to respect people like Giselle Pellico as a direct result of Giselle and everything that she went through and coming forward. The French parliament has ratified an amendment to add consent to the legal definition of sexual assault and rape. This only came through in 2025. This is incredibly recent because previously, rape or sexual abuse in France had been defined as any form of sexual penetration committed with the use of violence, coercion, threat or surprise. Now the law will say that all sexual acts done to another without consent constitute rape. This change is the result of cross party years long debate which came to the forefront because of the Pellico rape trial and because of the advocacy, the advocacy right of Giselle Pellico. Happy International Women's Day and I'm going to be nice and swift here at the end. I'm going to talk to you about. Well yeah, recommendations time because I do it every episode. May as well do it here too. For listening. Ghosted by Roz Hernandez because you need a break at this point for reading if you get the chance, A Hymn to Life by Gisele Pellico and for watching again to just give you some joy in the world. Go watch north of north and demand that Netflix give it a second season because it's really good. And with that I'm going to bid you adieu. Happy International Women's Day. Adios. Au revoir au vui de seine, my friends. Bye bye.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save Hundreds of Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
- [82:24]
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ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend. Christian Bale was preparing for his role in American Psycho, dressing the part, hitting the gym for the first time in his life, even getting his teeth redone. There was just one problem. He didn't actually have the part. Leonardo DiCaprio did. Listen to our podcast what Went Wrong every week as we unearth the chaos behind Hollywood's biggest movie flops and most shocking successes. Available wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.