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- [00:00]
Shell V-Power Nitroplus Advertiser
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- [00:30]
Odoo Business Software Advertiser
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- [00:41]
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- [01:13]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
sponsor jobs get you quality candidates when you need them most. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. A job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire this is a job for Indeed Sponsored jobs. This is Myles Gray from Ain't It Footy. How can you stay winning during the FIFA World Cup 2026? Well, the active cash Visa credit card from Wells Fargo scores unlimited 2% cash rewards on all types of fanfare purchases. That's cash rewards on T merch and game day snacks. I call that a win, win, win because unlimited 2% cash rewards earned means unlimited bragging rights Won terms apply. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Visa Worldwide Partner of the FIFA World Cup 2026.
- [02:29]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Hello delicious friends and wel, who did what. Now the history podcast. That is not your history class with me, your host, Katie Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books. And be glad, delicious friends, that I'm actually recording this podcast and not hiding any bathtub full of ice. You know, because of heat reasons, not because of, you know, people stealing my liver reasons so, yeah, see, because there's a heat wave here. Frankly, I am too pale and too soft for this weather. Right. And yes, before you start bumping your gums at me, I know other places are hotter. Okay, I understand. There are all these things and things are in place. We are implementing things to try and cool the planet down. Right. Not just my abode, but just getting AC is so much more complicated than just getting ac. And also trying to put an AC in a small house with no storage as is. Like, I. My house is covered in books. I currently record at my kitchen table because there are boxes of Lego in my kid's bedroom because it needs to be done. There is so much that needs to be done to make this house lovable. And I have antique father trial that is not mine, but I can't get rid of. And there is no space for me to put an AC unit in. Like, it's not. It's not a thing. And yeah, yeah. Apart from the fact that it's tough enough to get one in here, as is in temperatures that typically go from chilly to absolutely Baltic, it's not exactly an ideal solution. I have, however, purchased myself three fans with Mr. So I've got these wee chow pao fans, right? And that's mainly for the kids, you know, so they can put it in whatever room they're in. And also I've got like a proper wee desk fan thing, which also, it's by Shark, also has the Mr. So I'm hoping it's gonna be, like, decent, because I'm trying to not have, like, cold air blown directly at my face because apparently that's really bad. And as I'm sure you can hear from my voice, it still hasn't fully, fully come back now. Okay. Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good that I pre ordered these fans, though, so, like, yay me. Partially organized. Also, a friend of mine who was originally from Florida gave me, like, really good advice during the last time we had a heat wave. And so I'm. I'm. I'm propelled in some ways, which is. Which is good. Which is good. Now it's also really nice to see how, like, how the US has really embraced the tartan army. And as someone who is half Irish, half Scottish, right. This. This bodes well for me. I'm like, great. I've got the accent you like, and I wear a lot of tartan now. That's a little bit handier for me. And there's this whole thing about how they. They're not going to, like, touristy places. They're going to, like, Seven Elevens and Costco and stuff. And I love Costco, okay? I love Costco. I got taken to a Costco when I was over there the last time. It was like, do you want to go to the Costco? And I had said yes before the end of the sentence, but the. The food court was down. So I get. I don't know if I said this last time. I may have said this last time, but here's the thing, right? You take me to the food court at Costco. I'm a cheap day. I'm very easily pleased. Like, people were telling me, like, oh, this is what I get when I go to the food court in Costco. And I'm like, I want to go to the food court in Cost. It's like when I went to a 7 11. Like, I went to a 7 11. And I really wanted to get, like, the weird roller hot dog things, but I didn't get one of them. I just got the gulp. And then I got a double gulp just because it was like, get the double gulp. It'd be really fun. And it's bigger than my head. It was massive. It was so huge. But, like, I'm. I'm very excited because, speaking of the us, right, I will be announcing tour dates soon, so keep your eyes peeled, and if you want me to come to your city, then you make sure you fill in the form and let me know to come to you. So, like, there's a wee link down below, so that's going to be across Europe, the U.S. canada, like, all of that. I don't have Australia planned yet because I. I haven't got that far in my planning. But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, katie, quit your jibber jabber and fact me. In fact you. I will. But first we've got to get our source on. Our sources are. Pay it no. The Life and Times of Marsha P. Johnson by Michael Casino and Richard Morrison. The Death and Life of Marsha P. Johnson by David Frantz Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries. Survival, Revolt and Community by Lesley Feinberg. Stonewall. The Riot that Sparked the Gay Revolution by David Carter. I also got a great deal of information from blackpast.org, biography.com and thesmithsonian.com are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then let's begin. And as the final episode of Pride Month. And how could I talk about Pride without the one, the only, Marsha P. Johnson. Marsha P. Johnson is an LGBTQ icon, a person who lived, who struggled, and who fought for the betterment of her community. She lived a life. And then her death. Well, her death is mysterious. But we'll get to that. And before we do go on, I want to give you a big, fat, content warning. I am going to be discussing sensitive issues. Assault, rape, suicide, murder. So if that is something that you think you might not be able to handle right now, it's probably best you exit stage left. And we will see you next time when I get to tell you all about the history of America. And by America, I mean the land that is now currently the United States of America. Because what would be better to Discuss on the 250th anniversary of those 13 colonies doing their thing? And some of you are gonna like it. Some of you. Well, I mean, if you listen to me, you probably, like, I'm gonna talk about anyway. But some people are not gonna be that happy, I don't think. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. But back to Masha, actually, before going to Marcia sidebar, before we get into anything, somebody left a comment like, oh, I can hear snoring in the background. It's really distracting. And, and here's the thing. I record alone in a room by myself. Now, it is rare that sometimes, like, the kids are in the room. That being said, I did record the JonBenet Ramsay episode, like, many, many years ago with my child sleeping beside me, but it wasn't that episode they commented on. And I'm like, why are you hearing snoring in my house? Who's. Who's snoring in my kitchen? Which is where I do most of my recording currently due to the rest of the house not being organized yet. Marcia P. Johnson. So Marcia was born Malcolm Michaels Jr. On 25 August, 1945 in Elizabeth, New Jersey. Now, here's the thing. For the purpose of this episode, I will be referring to Marcia as Marsha, and I will be using she her pronouns, although probably I will revert to the additional they here and there. And that is just a habit. I tend to just call people they at the best of times because it's one, correct and two, the easiest way for me not to misgender someone as my friend Jay, if you listen to day and nightshade, Jay is someone. I, I never misgender when I am talking about them, but when I am talking directly to them every single time, it's like it just keeps happening. And then Jay makes fun of me for it, and then I feel terrible, and then they make fun of me even More, which is great for them. They get great enjoyment out of this, by the way. But the thing about Marsha P. Johnson is that she would use Marcia and Malcolm interchangeably. Marcia existed in a time in which modern terminology was decades away from existing. And frankly, Marcia at best could be described as gender non conforming. Many of her friends would refer to her as gender fluid because sometimes she would be Marcia, sometimes she would be Malcolm. They were a gay man, they were a drag queen, they were a transvestite, they were all of these things. That is, again, I'm going to be using terminology as well that some of you are going to not be totally happy with just because it's going to come up and it's going to be relevant to the story because it's going to be terminology that Marcia herself used. And that's, that's why it's going to be in there. But Marcia was fluid. But Marcia was known quite a lot mostly, and as part of the activism as Marsha P. Johnson. And so this whole thing about being gender fluid, like, she would even say that the P and Marsha P. Johnson stood for pay no mind, which is what she would reply if anyone asked her gender, like, it basically became her motto. And like, even for a while, like before this, like, Marsha was the name that she chose for part of herself or, or however she wanted to express herself in this way. And like, at one point, like initially she called herself Black Marcia, which is like, I don't know, it's as if she watched the Brady Bunch and she was like, that's Marcia, but I'm Black Marcia. Like Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. I don't know. I don't know where she got Marcia from, but that was the name she chose and I love that for her. But I am getting ahead of myself. Marcia was born on the 24th of August, 1945 in Elizabeth, New Jersey to Malcolm Michael Sr. An assembly line worker for General Motors, and Alberta Claiborne, a housekeeper. She was the fifth of seven children born to the couple. Now, I did try and find out more about her siblings, but I could only find two older brothers, an older sister, and one sister that I couldn't find an age for. So we had Albert, Charles, Jeannie and Normie. Now, Marcia had a conservative Christian upbringing, but not the kind that you think, because this was one that was focused more on tolerance, kindness, as you will find out. Haddad Malcolm, he had come to New Jersey from Virginia as part of what was the second migration, the second great migration, which ran from 1940 to 1970 was the mass relocation of over 5 million African Americans from the rural and urban south to the Northeast, the Midwest and the West. Was it sparked by World War II defence jobs and. Or was it, you know, the desire to escape Jim Crow? A little from column A, a little from column B. When Masha was three years old and two siblings later, Marshall's parents separated and Malcolm relocated to London because that's where GM Motors plant was. He continued to be a fixture in Marcia's life. But Marcia stayed in Alberta with her mother. Now, when she was around five years old, Marcia wore women's clothing for the first time, much to her mother's chagrin, but she loved it. Now here's the thing, this is the thing kids do anyway though, isn't it? Like they dress up, they dress up, they paint their faces, they have slime in their hair while fighting dragons and a glitter tutu if no one forces them out of. But for Marcia, putting on women's clothing just felt right. And she would continue to wear clothes, women's clothes, until the neighborhood boys quote, got fresh with her. That's the. How white do I sound? I mean, I'm the whitest person you'll ever meet. I'm a full blown male sapient like and. But the boys, well, they put their hands on her and when she was 12, she was assaulted by a neighborhood boy. He was 13. Well she was raped and she didn't even know what sex was at that age. And it took away of what childhood she had left. So for her, like she had no knowledge, people didn't talk about it, it wasn't something that was discussed. And like as far as she was concerned, she was married to Jesus because they were religious. And there she was, her childhood just gone. Now speaking of growing up, Marcia was raised in a wee house on Washington Avenue in Elizabeth. And Elizabeth was a segregated city, but it was also an early hub for civil rights activism. So all of this would be happening around her when she was young and she grew up there, very religious, attending the Mount Temen African Methodist Episcopal Church. All of these churches have really long names. Like all the churches ever. It can't just be like something church. It always has to be the church of the oppressive destructive thing or the Church of Our lady of Hope and Sorrow. Like they're always like really long names. Oh, it's Our lady of Perpetual Sadness. Like cool. Like they always have really long names. But the church that she attended, actually this is really interesting, is the oldest black church in Elizabeth. And Marcia, she was deeply religious she went to church every Sunday. She performed on stage as part of the church's Christmas program. And yeah, her family were the type of conservative Christians that were more due unto others. Show compassion and kindness as opposed to the God will smite you for your existence distance. Like her family, although they might not have agreed with her, choices in life were there for her throughout. And even, and even when she came back home, like, sometimes she would bring people with her, people who needed help, people who needed a warm meal and a family environment. She would bring them back to New Jersey, she would bring them back to Elizabeth, meet her family, and then, you know, bring them back to New York. Marsha went to the Edison High School, which is now the Thomas A. Edison Career and Technical Academy. She was a drummer in the marching band. She was involved in parades and the like. She was very much community focused from the get go. And when she was 17, she enlisted in the U.S. navy. Now she did begin military recruit training in Chicago, but was honourably discharged after she punched a man who tried to sexually assault her. Good for her. Initially, heading back home to Elizabeth, she decided that she needed to get the heck out of Dodge and moved to New York City with a bag of clothes and $15 in her pocket. Which is wild. It's like 1962, 63, and you've got 15 bucks to your name nowadays. I don't even think I'd get you a meal in New York, which, incidentally, is one of the places I like to visit. It's on the list because I haven't been there yet. And. Okay, sidebar. I'm doing another sidebar. Okay. You know how we talk about, again, I said earlier about the 7 11s at the, the food court and all this kind of stuff. I want to go to a bodega, okay? A proper bodega and one that has a cat. You know, if the bodega has a cat, I know it's a good one because it reminds me of the corner shops in Scotland when I was growing up. Like, you know, it was a good corner shop if it had a cat, you know. But back to Marcia. She gets to New York and she's homeless. Sometimes she's lucky and she sleeps in a movie theater, which was common back then. Like, even if you go back to like the 40s, if you remember from like the Black Dahlia episodes, Elizabeth Short did that too. Like, if she was desperate for somewhere to stay and she literally had no other option, she would just go sleep in a movie theater. Now, a lot of people who would come to know Marcia would. Would struggle with how she managed to survive at this time. She was transient, she didn't have a job, and she resorted to begging and sex work just to survive. And it's around about this time when she met 11 year old Sylvia Rivero, who would go on to say that Marcia saved her life. Sylvia was also transgender, and that meant that she wasn't welcome in her grandmother's home anymore. Essentially orphaned, Sylvia's mother completed suicide and her father abandoned the family well before that. And so when 17 year old Marcia held her hands open for her, she was ready to be there, ready to be welcomed. And they became each other's family. And Marcia was building this community. Her found family, spending a lot of time in Greenwich Village, particularly Christopher Street. Now, Greenwich Village was the gay spot in New York where a lot of members of the LGBTQ community would hang out, spend time together. And so even though this was, you know, a frightening time for Marcia, she's a teenager in this big city. She's sleeping in picture houses, bath houses, and eventually friends, couches. She's finding her people and like, obviously the ball scene's in existence and you've got voguing and all that jazz happening. And Marcia didn't really take drag seriously because she couldn't afford to. She performed, but she used what she had. And she had this really fun, whimsical sense of style. It wasn't expensive, but it was so good. And so her, like, she got her glad rags on using dresses, high heels, robes, stockings, wigs, and she would add, like, really interesting design elements like brooches, artificial fruit, and of course, the flower crowns. Like, if you see a picture of Marsha P. Johnson, you'll usually see her in a flower crown and sometimes these, like, big fabulous sunglasses. Like, she would make these flower crowns and sell these so she could make a little something. So when she performed, it was her personality that really shone. And Marcia was a kind person. But that's not to say she was a pushover, because, no, absolutely not.
- [23:35]
Tony Ayo (The Real Report Advertiser)
This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will this go up soon? Game, because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life Meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement. Some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [24:35]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [24:39]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [24:42]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Hey, Bowen. Point of order. It feels like nothing is what it says it is anymore.
- [24:46]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Point of answer. It's because everything has a catch.
- [24:48]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Hey. Or it turns out to be something else entirely.
- [24:51]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Like a total catfish situation.
- [24:52]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly, Bo.
- [24:53]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Except for hotels.com?
- [24:54]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
yeah, that one's pretty literal because it's
- [24:56]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
hotels.com it's in the domain. You go there, you book hotels, hundreds of thousands of them, and hold up.
- [25:03]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
That's it.
- [25:04]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
That's it.
- [25:05]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
And when stays are booked as a member, rewards are earned every time.
- [25:08]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Every stay, every stay.
- [25:10]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
No tracking or managing. Just rewards that can be used like cash on future bookings, which, by the
- [25:14]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
way, already feels nicer than most rewards programs.
- [25:16]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Okay. Yeah. Members can also get up to 20% off bookings, so savings start right away. Does that mean no weird restrictions and no blackout dates? Book what works when it works. It's actually really fitting of Real Travel.
- [25:29]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
So the name is honest, you're saying, and the rewards are too?
- [25:33]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [25:36]
Odoo Business Software Advertiser
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- [26:27]
Scotty B (Elvis Duran and the Morning Show)
Hey, it's Scotty B From Elvis Duran and the Morning show on Demand. You know how some people are dog people and some just aren't? I don't really buy it. I think either you're a dog person or you just haven't met the right dog yet, because when you do, they work their dog magic on you, and it's like, boom, you're a dog person now. Done deal. I mean, just think back to when you were a kid and you had your first dog. Going on walks, playing in the lake. There was never any doubt you were a dog person, and you or your parents were probably feeding them pedigree. For 40 years, families have been feeding their dogs pedigree. It was good then, and it's better now. Every bowl serves up 100% complete and balanced nutrition, supporting six health essentials that bring out the goodness in your dog. That's the pedigree goodness promise. Of course I want the best from my dog, Sawyer. He deserves it because he's always such a good boy. Yes, he is. I mean, it's pretty simple. Pedigree is really good dog food for really good dogs, just as it always has been. Pedigree good then, better now.
- [27:31]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
The very first Pride was a protest. Stonewall was a riot. Now, this is something you may have heard in passing, but it's true. So let me slip into some context for you. In the 1960s, it was illegal to be gay. A bunch of laws have been put in place as a runoff from the McCarthy era, including that people had to wear the clothes of the gender they were assigned at birth. Now, if you want a full refresher, the lavender scare episode, which is, I think, just two episodes before this one, goes into McCarthyism and the persecution of the LGBTQ community. Effectively, gay people weren't allowed to exist, and they certainly weren't allowed to congregate, especially in bars, and they certainly weren't allowed to drink in them. You weren't allowed to dance with a member of the same sex in public. Like, all of these things could get you arrested and charged with sexual deviancy. And bars that were seen to be promoting that kind of deviancy, for serving drinks to a gay person, you could be fined or shut down, which is wild. Like, imagine turning to a patron at your bar and being like, I ain't a POV before I pour you the Shah of Sambuca. Like imagine. So cops were raiding suspected gay balls all the time because apparently that was a far more important use of their time. When not solving muddles and shit, they'd raid places. Like, they'd even walk into places and be like, that person's gay. You served them a drink, you're getting shut down, they're getting arrested, so on and so forth. Which brings us to the mob. That is correct. The Mafia. See, the Mafia owned a lot of businesses, including bars and clubs. One such bar was the Stonewall Inn, which was connected to the Genovese crime family. Now, if you want to hear about the best bisexual mob queen, I've got a whole episode way, way back on Anna Genovese, although I do mispronounce her name through the entire episode. Now, the Mafia realized that a whole community of people needed a third space. Of course, they did not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, but to the fullness of their pockets. See, the mob didn't discriminate. If you could pay, you could stay. So the Mafia ran a whole host of gay bars in New York. And with the mob running things, there's some extra protection usually. The Stonehall Inn was a legal loophole of an establishment. It was deemed to be a private club with a guestbook signed by members. And it wasn't a bar, it was byob. Bring your own bottle. Like, that was the loophole. So as long as you could afford to come in, you were welcome. Like, what's, what's pretty good here, right, is that it's like you need to bring your own booze. And it's like, no, they'd serve booze, right, because they'd sell it. And it was just like a very clever workaround. Now what's interesting here is that the community, the queer community itself wasn't exactly the most accepting of spaces like you'd think. But here's the thing. Communities within themselves, they can become insular and they can also be guilty of othering people, you know?
- [31:21]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
And,
- [31:23]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
well, the thing about this is trans women and drag queens were not really appreciated by the LGB minus the T community. Many members of the gay community wanted to distance themselves from drag queens and the like. But in Stonewall, drag queens, gender fluid and other such non conforming queer people could go and be welcome. And the mob, well, they basically had a deal with the nypd. They'd get forewarned about a raid happening and so they'd send word out not to come that day to the customers, all while just so happening to be Closed on that very day. Whoopsie daisy. We weren't open for business. There was no club meeting that day. Nothing untoward happening here. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. But on 28 June, 1969, the NYPD showed up at the Stonewall Inn completely unannounced. No forewarning, no chance. The cops stomped in and they start beating people. Like, they arrest 13 people and they start doing genital checks. You fucking heard me? Genital checks. Like, hey, we're gonna sexually assault you for the good of people. Female officers started to take people into the bathroom to force them to show them their genitals to prove what biological sex they are. Because if they were wearing the wrong clothing, that's an arrestable charge, right? If you're wearing trousers and you have a vulva, right? Any trans person or trans women. Sorry, any trans women who didn't have a sex change, who didn't have that surgery, arrested if they had a skirt on. If. I think it was technically, you had to have. If, like, two or more items of your clothing were not the gender assigned at birth. Like, if they didn't match. Like, women wearing slacks, like, arrested, right? They're, like, pulling up skirts and down trousers to see if someone has a penis or a vulva. They're looking at vulvas, they're not looking at vaginas, right? I mean, that's like. You'd think it's. It's all bad because it's violating, and that's not even the right word for it. Like, there's a more extreme word, but I just don't have it in my brain. And this was going far, and people were getting violently attacked by officers and one women, one amazing, fabulous butch lesbian and drag king, Stormy Delavi. She gets beaten with a billy club and she's just fucking pissed. She's screaming like, do something. Are you gonna fucking do something? And here's the thing about Stonewall, right? And that's. We don't actually know that much about it. Like, there are so many contradicting accounts of what happened that, like, there's a narrative that's been presented. Cops raid the place, people resist, and a brick is thrown. Was it Martha P. Johnson who threw the brick? Was it Silvia Rivero? Was there even a brick? Like, we don't even know if there really was a brick, but we do know that there was a punch. And the person who threw the first punch was Stormy Delavy. And this just sets everyone off. And according to some witnesses, Marsha P. Johnson was there and threw a shot glass across the room, proclaiming, I've got my civil rights. Which is basically, I like to see that as Marcia's version of going, fuck this for a game of soldiers. Others say, by the way, that Marcia was one of the first people to start offering the cops a knuckle sandwich. But chaos ensues. Everyone is fighting back and they are throwing shit at the cops. Anything they can get their hands on, bottles, chairs, change from their pockets, like, everything they could. Like, gets to the point that the cops actually have to take cover inside the Stonewall Inn. But, like, this angry mob is just getting bigger and louder, chatting stuff like gay power. And in an act of desperation or stupidity, I'm not entirely sure which one it was, a police officer sets the Stonewall Inn on fire. They're inside it and they've set it on fire. Right? Incidentally, there was also a report that Marsha P. Johnson showed up. Like, when she arrived at the Stonewall Inn, it was already ablaze. Luckily, the fire department was able to extinguish the flames, save the building and everyone in it. But that wasn't the end of it. For the next five days, following Stonewall, protests, marches, gatherings, they started popping up. Thus, the very first Pride march was born. The whole gay community came together. An act of resistance, an act of community. And this whole incident is one of the reasons why there's a huge discourse as to why cops don't belong at Pride. It's very much a whole thing. So after the events at Stonewall, Masha became very active in the Gay Activists alliance, the gaa. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to sidebar you again here. So in Ireland, we have the gaa. It's not this gaa, it's different gaa. We call it the ga. It's the ga. So the ga. Right. I'm trying to do it, but I can't do the accent right. I have to sound like I'm from Cavan. So the GA is all over Ireland. So basically, it. It's inter county, but it also has each county. So you would have, like, an all Ireland final, and it would have a team from, like, County Donegal, County Cork, Galway, Dublin, etc. And each county has colours, so you'd have county colours. And so if you're ever driving through Ireland and you see flags that have two colours on them, they're usually just two squares that make up a rectangle. If it's like blue and yellow or green and orange or whatever, like that, that's the ga. That's the ga flags. Okay. And so this would include things like Gaelic football, comoge, hurling. Although for years I would call hurling Harley, because that's what I thought it was called. And I got made fun of by lots of people from Limerick, of all places. I'm kidding. They were from County Clare. I wouldn't. I wouldn't complain about Limerick people. They're okay. So me reading the word ga here is. Is very funny because I'm just like, ah, sure. There they were with their Harley, and they're Schlitter. Schlitter is the name of the ball that they use in Harley, just so you know. And it's. It actually goes all the way back to, like, ancient Irish myth. And, you know, that's a story for another day. So Marcia is also involved in the gay liberation front glf. And then Marcia and Sylvia had established Star House. So STAR stood for Street Transvestites Action Revolutionaries. And they housed transgender youths, kids who were homeless and had nowhere else to go. And they didn't just put a roof over their heads. They gave them money, they fed them, they gave them clothes, and most of all, they fought for the rights.
- [39:29]
Tony Ayo (The Real Report Advertiser)
This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent's going up, streaming services are going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the will this go up soon? Game, because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost unlimited plan.
- [40:30]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [40:33]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [40:36]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Hey, Bowen. Point of order. It feels like nothing is what it says it is anymore.
- [40:40]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Point of answer. It's because everything has a catch.
- [40:43]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Hey.
- [40:43]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Or turns out to be something else entirely.
- [40:45]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Like a total catfish situation.
- [40:47]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly, Bo.
- [40:47]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Except for hotels.com?
- [40:49]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
yeah, that one's pretty literal because it's
- [40:51]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
hotels.com it's in the domain. You go there, you book hotels, hundreds of thousands of them, and hold up.
- [40:57]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
That's it.
- [40:58]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
That's it. And when stays are booked as a member, rewards are earned every time.
- [41:02]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Every stay, Every stay.
- [41:04]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
No tracking or managing. Just rewards that can be used like cash on future bookings, which, by the
- [41:09]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
way, already feels nicer than most rewards programs.
- [41:11]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Okay, yeah. Members can also get up to 20% off bookings, so savings start right away. Does that mean no weird restrictions and no blackout dates? Book what works, when it works. It's actually really fitting of real travel.
- [41:24]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
So the name is Honest, you're saying, and the rewards are too?
- [41:27]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [41:30]
Odoo Business Software Advertiser
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- [42:23]
Scotty B (Elvis Duran and the Morning Show)
B from Elvis Duran and the Morning show On Demand. You know how some people are dog people and some just aren't? I don't really buy it. I think either you're a dog person or you just haven't met the right dog yet. Because when you do, they work their dog magic on you and it's like, boom, you're a dog person now. Done deal. I mean, just think back to when you were a kid and you had your first dog. Going on walks, playing in the lake. There was never any doubt you were a dog person. And you or your parents were probably feeding them pedigree. For 40 years, families have been feeding their dogs pedigree. It was good then. And it's Better now. Every bowl serves up 100% complete and balanced nutrition supporting six health essentials that bring out the goodness in your dog. That's the pedigree goodness promise. Of course I want the best from my dog, Sawyer. He deserves it because he's always such a good boy. Yes, he is. I mean, it's pretty simple. Pedigree is really good dog food for really good dogs, just as it always has been. Pedigree good then, better now.
- [43:23]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
And the first Star House came about because, well, it was a dilapidated building owned by Michael Umbels, a man who was very well connected with the mob, especially the Gambino crime family. So he had this piece of shit building, and Marcia and Sylvia basically made a deal. Evie gave it to them for cheap, like cheap rent. Then they would do the place up. And they did. I was gonna say by Jeeves. They did. I don't know why I was gonna say by Jeeves, but they did. They renovated it and they got it looking fucking fabulous. So they had this lovely house and they were caring for these young people and they called Marcia the Queen Mother. And these young people that she was caring for, she called them her children. Now, here's the thing, Marcia. Marcia's a humble queen, right? Marcia gives full credit to Sylvia for setting up Star House. And Marcia says that she's merely the vice president. But then you've got Silvia saying that Marcia really set up the first Starhouse when she helped her all those years before. Now they end up being evicted by Umbels because they were behind on rent. Listen, if you're renting from the Mob, okay, and. And you're like behind on rent, like, if you're not making rent, you are going to end up back on the street. Unfortunately, there wasn't really a lot of job opportunities for transgender women in the 1960s. Or I suppose gender non conforming women, they had less options to earn money, traditionally at least, which is why they often engaged with sex work just to bring in some money. Meanwhile, Marcia became entangled with Thomas Gerald Davis, also known as Kandy. So she met Candy at a dance, after which they regularly spent time at Star House together. And at some point they had this wedding ceremony, like this symbolic gesture of their love. And Candy gifted Marcia a dog to symbolize the relationship. Now, the dog was pregnant and had a litter of puppies, which all became, like, part of Star House. And this. The thing is, a friend characterized the pair's relationship as marked by love, complexity and a deep desire for self actualization. Now, this relationship was not without its faults, Candy was a drug user and one day they tried to rob an off duty cop who shot them in the chest, killing them. Candy's death really affected Marsha and it triggered a breakdown resulting in her being admitted to the Wards Island State Hospital. And it was here where she had a revelation. And this was to just give it her all, to really push into activism, to ignore the romantic side of life. And so she really did. She started pushing for the New York City Gay Rights bill, which the GAA had introduced in September 1970. The purpose of the bill was to provide protections against sexual orientation discrimination. Marcia supported the bill, stating, and I quote, I have no intention of getting a job as long as this country discriminates against homosexuals. There's only homosexuals, bisexuals and trisexuals, darling. And there are no straight people. So the Star House was short lived, as was the next Star House they set up because, well, they just couldn't afford to keep running it. But Marshall, Marsha did her best, right? And she was this beacon of light. She went out of her way to care for others. She was so considerate and generous and like, if someone complimented her for anything, she wore a scarf, a flower crown, a brooch, like, she would just give it to you. Oh, you like it, honey? Here you go. Right? Literally, you know when they say, oh, they'll give you the shirt off their back? Marsha would, okay. And here's the thing. She wanted to help transgender people to have a voice. And she's at, what was it? There's, there's this rally for gay rights in 73, and things just nosedive. Because at this point, the dream of a united gay liberation movement was splintering. Some organisations pushed for gradual political change where others believed that different paths were required. In the midst of all these divisions stood Marsha, who spent years caring for those the movement too often overlooked. When the annual Pride march arrived, Star, the organisation Marcia had helped build to support homeless, transgender and queer youth, was meant to lead the parade. Instead, its members were pushed aside, the banner disappeared from the rally stage, and they were told there was no place for them at the front of the movement they had helped shape. And Sylvia Rivero, like she ends up on stage begging, pleading with the entire community to help these youths, to help transgender people, to give them a voice to help them. And she gets booed off the fucking stage. And for Marcia, it was another painful reminder that even within a fight for equality, some voices were considered easier to ignore than others. But she didn't disappear into the crowd she remained a symbol of compassion, resilience and hope, continuing to care for our community even when recognition was slow to come. And after Star dissolved, Marcia found a new home on the stage, of all things right. She joined the Angels of Light, which is, like, this colourful theatre group known for, like, bold, joyful performances. And so she's just, like, spreading joy and hope and just, like, putting positivity out in the world. And around about the same time, she begins performing with the Hot Peaches. Peaches? Oh, sorry, I have a thing about Peaches. And so the Hot Peaches are a drag theater trip. And so they appear in, like, a string of productions throughout the 70s, and she performs with them for years. And Marcia refused to let anyone decide where she belonged. Even when she was pressured to choose between the two theatre groups, she carried on performing with both. She even appeared in independent films and plays. And Wilde. In 1975, she was photographed by Andy Warhol for his Ladies and Gentlemen Portrait series. Life off stage was, unsurprisingly, less glamorous. Friends from the Angels often helped cover her living expenses. But Marcia struggled with periods of poor mental health and was repeatedly hospitalised. During one difficult episode, she was arrested after reacting to a group of people who had been harassing her. It's okay for people to do things to you, but don't react to it like that makes you the bad person, which is such a fucking shit take and is one that we keep pushing. Like, take the high ground. No, I'll take the low ground. I will dig a hole under you so deep it will lead you to the pits of Hades themselves. But she has an episode, and as a result, she's admitted to Bellevue Hospital, where she is treated with the antipsychotic medication Thorazine. That drug, it made it painful for her to speak and perform. And sometimes she would disappear from the theatre scenes for months while she recovered. And each time she came back like a boomerang. She brought back the same kindness, humor, and this unmistakable spirit that made her so fucking beloved. And, like, not just, you know, these health issues she's going through. Like, her and a pal actually went to see this, you know, the screen of her that Andy Warhol did at a store on Christopher street, and they kicked her out of the store because no one recognized her. Now, those of us who are interested in LGBTQ history are aware of Marsha P. Johnson. We know enough about her. We've at least, like, we would at least recognize her image or. Or know just enough about her, right? Like, we know we can skim it, you know, anyone who has an interest would have some knowledge. But she wasn't really an icon in her own time. Like, she wasn't held in such high regard when she was Alive. And by 1979, Marsha was once again without a permanent home. She often spent her nights in gay bath houses or stayed with friends whenever she could. Then in the winter of 1980, during one bitterly cold night, activist Randy Whicker invited her to stay with him in Hoboken, New Jersey, which started off as an act of kindness, but, like, she moved in and never really left, right. This became this really long lasting friendship between the two of them, and they would live together for the next 12 years. Even with a roof over her head, life didn't get easy. It remained difficult. Like many transgender women at the time, Marcia relied on sex work to survive. And in 1980, she was shot in the back by a taxi driver while working along New York's west side Highway. Doctors were unable to remove the bullet, and it remained in her body for the rest of her life, causing constant pain and making it difficult for her to sleep. Now, St. Vincent, they did try and remove the bullet. They did everything they could, but they just couldn't. But being shot wasn't the only time that she was on the receiving end of violence. While engaging in sex work. Like her Johns, the, the people that she was providing the service to like, she would often get roughed up by them, and this was a continuous hardship. But despite everything she was going through, Marsha continued to build relationships and find moments of joy. Like in the 80s, like the early 80s, she managed to have this on, off relationship with Joseph or Tansky. She travelled to places like, she went to Europe, she went to Puerto Rico and Los Angeles, and often with help from Randy. Right? And so she ends up, like, going to, like the Olympics, the 84 Olympics, and of she's engaging in sex work, you know, just to have enough money to get by. And she did that then. But as the 1980s began, a new crisis swept through New York. At first, few people understood what it was, the illness that would later become known as aids, which spread rapidly through the LGBTQ community. Taking friends, partners, and chosen family one by one. Marcia couldn't just stand by and watch. She spent hours, countless hours visiting people in hospitals, sitting beside their beds, praying with them, lighting candles and making sure they knew they were not alone. When a close friend became seriously ill, she cared for him until his final days and later held a vigil in his memory. She also looked after David Combs a close friend living with aids, stepping in as his nurse whenever she was needed and alongside her caring work, Marcia Marcia continued to speak out. After she was honoured in the 1985 New York Pride, she helped organise the first AIDS walk in Los Angeles. She took part in fundraising events back in New York. And now she Even though she was never a formal member of ACT up, she joined protests and marches demanding better treatment, faster research and dignity for people living with aids. She watched people around her wither and
- [57:52]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
die,
- [57:55]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
and the weight of so much loss was impossible to escape. Watching friends die one after another took a heavy toll on Marsha's own mental health, leading to more periods where she needed hospital care. By the end of the decade, she'd also learned that she was HIV positive herself. Even then, she refused to stop showing up for others. At Pride in 1990, she marched carrying a banner honouring David Combs, determined that those lost to the epidemic would not be forgotten. Marsha P Johnson was HIV positive. Marsha P Johnson had contracted aids. But it would not be AIDS that caused the end of her life. No, her death would be far more complicated.
- [58:51]
Tony Ayo (The Real Report Advertiser)
This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rents going up? Streaming services are going up? Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks salsa should cost extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will this go up soon? Game because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life, meaning you're set to never worry about your bill increasing again for as long as you're on the plan. While the world keeps finding new ways to nickel and dime you, Boost Mobile gives you unlimited wireless at one set price for life. Imagine something in your budget actually staying the same. You'll pay the same for unlimited wireless when you're posting mirror selfies in your 20s. And when you're posting mirror selfies in retirement, some things never change. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.
- [59:51]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [59:55]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [59:58]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Hey, Bowen, is it just me or does it feel like nothing is actually what it says? It is anymore.
- [60:02]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Yeah, like when you order chicken fingers, you don't get fingers, you get mystery nuggets.
- [60:07]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly. Well, except hotels.com.
- [60:10]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
i was gonna say, yeah, hotels.com because they do hotels refreshing. And when booked as a member, rewards are earned every stay, not points that disappear. Rewards that work like cash and can actually be used.
- [60:21]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
So the name checks out and the perks do too.
- [60:23]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Yep, members can get up to 20% off tons of hotels with no blackout dates. Just works with real travel. Okay, that tracks hotels.com, it's all in the name.
- [60:33]
Odoo Business Software Advertiser
If your business runs on five different apps, 12 browser tabs, and one spreadsheet that everyone's afraid to touch, it's probably time for Odoo. Odoo is an all in one business management software that connects every part of your business and into one powerful, easy to use platform. So instead of wasting time switching between disconnected systems, your entire business works together in real time. Your team moves faster, your data stays accurate, and you can actually focus on growing your business. Let one unified system run your entire business. From the first opportunity to the final payment, everything works together in one place. Whether you're a small business or managing a large operation, Odoo gives you one flexible platform built to grow with you. Try for free today@odoo.com iheartradio that's O-O-O.com iheartradio.
- [61:24]
Scotty B (Elvis Duran and the Morning Show)
Hey, it's Scotty B From Elvis Duran and the morning show on Demand. You know how some people are dog people and some just aren't? I don't really buy it. I think either you're a dog person or you just haven't met the right dog yet. Because when you do, they work their dog magic on you and it's like, boom, you're a dog person now. Done deal. I mean, just think back to when you were a kid and you had your first dog. Going on walks, playing in the lake. There was never any doubt you were a dog person and you or your parents were probably feeding them pedigree. For 40 years, families have been feeding their dogs pedigree. It was good then and it's better now. Every bowl serves up 100% complete and balanced nutrition supporting six health essentials that bring out the goodness in your dog. That's the pedigree goodness promise. Of course, I want the best from my dog, Sawyer. He deserves it because he's always such a good boy. Yes, he is. I mean, it's pretty simple. Pedigree is really good dog food for really good dogs. Just as it always has been. Pedigree good then. Better now.
- [62:29]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Just days after the 1994 Pride celebrations, Marcia quietly left Randy Wicker's apartment. Now, it wasn't unusual for her to travel on a whim, and she had often spoken about heading to la. So at first, Wicker believed that's exactly what she did. But as the days passed and he had no word from her, concern began to grow. On 5 July, Wicker went to the police to report Marcia missing. And instead of taking the report, officers turned him away, claiming incorrectly, the Missing persons report could only be filed for people under the age of 40. And Marcia was 46. You know what, this is a fucking heartbreaking response for someone who had spent so much of her life caring for others. This feet dragging by the nypd, like it meant that valuable time was lost before her disappearance was taken seriously, if it ever was at all. On the 6th of July, 1994, Marcia's body was discovered floating in the Hudson river just off the West Village Pier. From the get go, cops worked under the assumption that Marcia completed suicide. Her friends, however, they wanted a proper investigation. They wanted answers. And for the police, well, Marsha was just less dead. The wrong kind of victim. The thing is, just from stats alone, this should have been investigated. Like, even nowadays, like transgender people experience violent crime at a rate of, what, 86 per thousand persons compared to. What is it? It's like, almost like it's like 21, 22 per a thousand sense gender people. Like, that's four times as much. And that's in the U.S. now,
- [64:46]
Scotty B (Elvis Duran and the Morning Show)
back
- [64:47]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
in, what was it? I think 1992 was the worst year on record for anti LGBTQ violence. Right? And you would think, I mean, this is two years later, that's not a long time for things to change, because they didn't really. And police, they ended up reclassifying the case from, like, drowning to undetermined cause. But the LGBTQ community was furious that the police refused to investigate further and that many press outlets just did not cover her death. Now, Randy Wicker last saw Marcia on the second, but there were sightings after this, like Benny Toney. Benny said that he had seen Marcia arguing with a neighbour with prominent facial scars known as Michael. And this was like, pretty soon before her death, according to Tony, the man shouted homophobic slurs at her. There was a confrontation, he pushed her and he was like. He, like, he was like cruising for a bruising, like he was ready for a fight. So Tony claims that later that day, the same man, like, he recognized him because of the scars on his face, right, that he was in a local bar boasting that he had killed a drag queen named Marsha. Now, the day after Marsha's body was pulled from the river, Tony, like, reported this to the police. He went straight to them, thinking that this could be an important lead. But according to Tony and Randy Wicker, this never gets properly investigated. Now, there has been speculation that Marsha's death may have involved members of the New York Police Department, although no evidence has ever conclusively proven this. These suspicions, well, they're shaped by the wider climate in York at the time. You've got the violence against LGBTQ people reaching, like, alarming levels, right? These attacks carried out, you know, by general members of the public and in many cases, by police officers like this, was discussed again in last week's episode. Now, former Anti Violence Project director Matt Foreman, right, he described the period like of this time, saying that anti LGBT violence was at a peak in that year. They had 1300 reports of bias crime, and 18% of those were based on violence perpetrated by police. An unrelating wave of attacks. Now, many of these crimes were never sold. Marcia herself had dedicated much of her activism to confronting street violence and seeking justice for Williams. Marcia was not afraid to throw a punch. Now, according to Randy, she understood the dangers that came with that. And shortly before her death, she reportedly warned him that investigating assaults involving corrupt police officers could get you muddled. Well, she didn't say corrupt police officers. She called them dirty cops.
- [68:19]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Right?
- [68:21]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Getting involved in dirty cops can get you murdered. Now, there were reports of Marcia being seen on the 4th of July and the 5th, like, really late on the 5th, and she seemed scared. There are also eyewitness accounts of two men following her as she made her way towards the direction of the West Village Pales that night. Now, Randy, he thinks he may have played a part in Marshall's death because, right, he was trying to get the reins of this Christopher Street Festival Committee, which ran, like, a portion of events at Gay Pride. Now, Randy was sure someone was pocketing funds, like, embezzling them from the committee, so he launched an investigation with, like, a PI and everything, spending five grand of his own money. And, well, allegedly, the Mafia had their fingers in many pies, including this one. And so they were profiting off of pride. So he's investigating, and so is Victoria Cruz. Now, she finds a message that was for Randy that he never got. And I'm paraphrasing here a wee bit, but it basically says, tell Randy, what happened to Marcia will happen to him if he doesn't leave Jacques Guerin and Red alone. Now, these are supposed to be members of some kind of criminal underground. And yeah, it's one of those threads that gets pulled and kind of leads you in a direction. And Marcia's death, it's actually thanks to Victoria Cruz that Marsha's death cause of death has changed. Because initially it's like suicide by drowning, but it gets changed to undetermined in 2002. Now, Marsha was found floating in the river. Her body was removed and left on the sidewalk for several hours before the coroner even arrived. In July in New York, like, hmm. Randy. And other witnesses confirmed that there was a hole in the back of Marsha's head and that she had other injuries. But when the coroner show up, suicide, death by drowning. Now, an independent medical examiner reviewed the coroner's report clarifying that damage to Marsha's body, including missing eyes and the hole in her head, could have occurred after death as the police removed her from the river. Here's. Here's the thing. We're gonna get into, like, the whole report in a second. But typically when I hear of eyes be missing on a corpse, that's usually like animal activity, you know, but that is something that happens over days, not one night. Because she's found in the Hudson river during the day, and it was very late at night that she was seen. So that's not even 24 hours that she's been in the water. And she's missing her eyes. No. So, yeah, I'm not. I'm not entirely convinced. Okay. So the coroner stated that she was breathing when she entered the river, which. Okay. Does not rule out being unconscious or being chased or pushed into the water. In Victoria Cruise, she wants handles and show. She. She gets her hands or she tries to get her hands on the autopsy. Right? She tries to get her hands on the autopsy report. And this is where my spidey senses are tingling because it's missing, it's lost. And when it's partial, like, it's her going round and round in circles trying to get this basic medical document regarding a person's death, which should be simple. Okay. And when she does get it, it's partial, it's incomplete, but they're signs where they are discolouration of the body, which could be livomortis, you know, which is when the blood pools, which is when the body's in a certain position for a period of time. The blood sort of like it's not being pumped to the body. So it just kind of pools in an area. So if a body is lying face down for a long time, their face would probably end up looking more blue, like, as if they're bruised. But it's not a bruise. It's just all the blood pulling, like, in that area. Now, there's also several hemorrhages in Marsha's brain. There's no mention of any signs of assault on the body. So, like, these are questions we have to ask is, what. What caused the haemorrhages? Was it natural causes? Did she have a condition? Could this have been caused by a seizure? Like, what could have caused that? Why wasn't this investigated? Medical examiner, like, hmm. Now, okay, I'm gonna throw my tinfoil hat in the ring here. Whether Marshall was chased into the river, if she was intoxicated one way or the other, like, I don't think a full autopsy was performed, and I think it wasn't performed because Marcia was HIV positive. Even if we rule out foul play, even if we say this was a tragic accident or this was something that Marcia did to herself intentionally or unintentionally, I believe the medical examiner did not do their job because there were eyewitness reports on Marshall's body, and that information didn't make it into the report. Contemporary information by many different witnesses, information that was taken at the time, but none of this is in the report. Like, not even looks like etc, or possible contusions to abc. Like, none of that's there. And so even if this was, you know, an accident, if it was a tragedy, we're not getting full answers because the medical examiner did not do their job properly. And the fact that a body was left out in the July sun for hours, like, I mean, it's more. It's more than disrespectful. It's so horrible. Now, I understand that there are many people who believe that Marcia ended her own life. One of the arguments is that, like, she was giving away stuff before her death. Marcia gave away stuff constantly. Like, she was that person. You like it, you have it. Congratulations. Good for you. But she had been struggling with mental health issues. She had breakdowns. She struggled, but she never had suicidal ideations. That was never part of the plan. And I'm fully, like, on board the ship of it's either a tragic accident or. Or it's a hate crime. Mugdoll. Like, I'm. I'm in either of these two. Like, the thing about it is, apart from the fact it wasn't it just. It wasn't investigated properly. If at least they did their jobs and they followed the leads, then we could at least go, well, you tried. And also, now, I have been told many times that black people just don't end their lives. It's not a thing they do, especially in a public way. If it's something. If it was gonna happen, it was gonna happen in a very private way. Now, there's always a possibility that Marcia suffered some kind of episode, but again, if you don't investigate it properly, it's always going to be suspicious. And Marsha's death was suspicious, and she deserved to have it investigated fully, properly and without bigotry and bias. But Marcia was more than just her death. She was her life. She was an advocate for the disenfranchised, a mother to children and a fucking pioneer. And her name deserves respect. And she lived for joy, to share joy, to give joy. When people say joy is resistance, it's Marsha P. Johnson. Her joy was resistance. Marcia's passing was mourned by everyone whose life she had touched. Three separate funeral services were held in her honour. Randy Whicker organised one in Hoboken, New Jersey. Her family held another in her hometown of Elizabeth. And a third service took place at the Church of the Village in New York City, where friends, activists and members of the LGBTQ community gathered to celebrate her life. A representative from Mayor David Dinkins attended the New York service and read a message that reflected on the weather that day. When it rains on the day of a funeral, it is a testimony to the life that person has lived. After the service, mourners walked together to the Christopher Street Pales, the place where Marcia's body had been found. There they held a quiet memorial, placing flowers and lighting candles in the Hudson river as they said their final goodbyes. And so ends the story on the life of Marsha P. Johnson. I always wanted to do Marsha P. Johnson justice. I always wanted to show her as a fully formed person. I think she deserves to have her story told in. I wanted to end Pride, Pride month talking about her, talking about her joy. And often when we talk about history, there were so many horrible things consistently happening, one after another, consecutively in a row. And there were moments and pockets of joy, and Marsha P. Johnson was one. In her life, she was that pocket of joy. And she deserved better than what she got. She deserved joy. And I think. I think we should all do something joyous for Marsha P. Johnson. And. And I actually want to thank before I finish, because it's It's Pride Month. I want to thank every person who emailed me and who messaged me about, about last week's episode about the AIDS crisis that I did, and thank you so much. I got so many beautiful, lovely, wonderful emails and messages, and you all said some lovely, kind, generous things, and I'm glad that I'm making some kind of a difference. I'm glad that you appreciate what I'm doing, and I'm hoping that I am giving the reverence and consideration and the truth of it all. I am so lucky. I am so lucky. Life is hard, guys. Life is hard. I'm, listen, I'm struggling. I always am. That's who I am as a person. But I am so lucky that you listen to me. I am so thankful that you listened to me. I'm so happy. And, you know, that's my joy. Fuck it. I mean, my kids are fine. They're nice, they're okay. I'm kidding. I love my kids. They're amazing. But I get real joy knowing that I'm doing something right. Whether it's being your body doubling sort of sound as you're doing your laundry, or I'm helping you, you know, I'm being that constant, you know, every Wednesday, there she is, you know, there she is talking to me, and here I am. I'm really glad to be here for you in whatever capacity that is. And I, I, I'm so grateful, and I'm, I'm glad I could do some kind of justice to the history that people are trying to sweep under the rug. And I won't stop, because that's who I am as a person. I'm, yeah, I'm getting emotional. And so I decided that with the recommendations, I'm gonna go for Joy from a recommendation list this week. Things that make me happy. And these are my recommendations to you for watching Grease 2. Okay. Greece 2. You know what? The last third of the film, it's not that great, but the first two thirds of that film, gold mine, right? Beautiful, fantastic. Frenchie disappears in the middle of the movie for no reason. Love that movie. Right? Love that movie. Really, really obsessed with do it for our country, which is like just such, such a me problem. But, yeah, I, I, let's bowl, let's bow, let's rock and roll. It's all in my head now. Grease 2, it's a, it's a joy. It's a Joy to watch Grease 2 for listening. I am a really big fan of for listening. Okay. Okay. There's this song by Monty Python. And it doesn't matter anymore because the. The money doesn't exist because it's. It's a song called Money, right? And it's all about all these different currencies. And it's sang by. I think it's written and sang by Eric Heidel. And it's basically, I've got 90, 000 pounds in my pajamas. I've got 40, 000 French francs in my fridge now. It's all the euro now. So, like, it doesn't matter. But it. It's this really silly song about money and it's like a minute long. And I really love it. It's my. It's one of my favorite, like, songs. You know, I should give you a second song that is also Joyce. C' est la Vie by Bewitched. Okay, so I have a. I have. I have a. My metaphorical. Metaphorical. My metaphysical. No, that's not right. My imaginary vision board, okay? My imaginary vision board has me doing a live show in Canada on St. Patrick's Day wearing a Canadian tuxedo with a member of the musical group 90s sensation Bewitched. Okay, That's a plan that is on the vision board because I think it would be really funny. No other reason.
- [86:09]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
And
- [86:11]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
for reading. Oh, my goodness. For reading. Reading for joy, actually. What do I read for joy? No, everything I read for joy is kind of depressing, actually. You know what? This is really bad. Okay? So I don't know if you know this, but in Ireland we have, like, a really good relationship with death. Like a really strong relationship with death. And I had this book years ago and it's called Last Laughs and Epitaphs. And it's all about the funny, like, last words of people and the funny quotes on their graves. It's very funny, I promise you. It's great. Circle of life. Very funny. Now with that, thank you so much. And I will see you next week when we start talking about Murrican history. And thank you for listening. Adios. Au revoir vui de Z, my friends.
- [87:15]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
Bye.
- [87:15]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Bye.
- [87:16]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [87:20]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [87:22]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Hey, Bowen. Point of order. It feels like nothing is what it says it is anymore.
- [87:26]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Point of answer. It's because everything has a catch.
- [87:29]
Katie Charlewood (Host of 'Who Did What Now? History Podcast')
Hey.
- [87:29]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Or it turns out to be something else entirely.
- [87:31]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Like a total catfish situation.
- [87:33]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly, Bo.
- [87:34]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Except for Hotels.com? yeah, that one's pretty literal because it's Hotels.com. it's in the domain. You go there, you book hotels, hundreds of thousands of them.
- [87:43]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
And hold up. That's it.
- [87:45]
Indeed and Wells Fargo Advertiser / Myles Gray
That's it.
- [87:45]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
And when stays are booked as a member, rewards are earned every time, every stay, every stay. No tracking or managing. Just rewards that can be used like cash on future bookings, which by the
- [87:55]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
way, already feels nicer than most rewards programs.
- [87:57]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Okay, yeah. Members can also get up to 20% off booking, so savings start right away. Does that mean no weird restrictions and no blackout dates? Book what works, when it works. It's actually really fitting of real travel.
- [88:10]
Matt Rogers (Las Culturistas Podcast)
So the name is honest you're saying and the rewards are too.
- [88:13]
Bowen Yang (Las Culturistas Podcast)
Exactly. Hotels.com. it's all in the name.
- [88:17]
Odoo Business Software Advertiser
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- [88:48]
Pedigree Dog Food Advertiser
We learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school. They were the dogs that raised us. We returned the love with Pedigree dog food. It was good then. It's better now. For 40 years, Pedigree has been bringing out the goodness in dogs. Every bowl serves up 100% of the nutrition your dog needs. Supporting six health essentials. That's the Pedigree goodness promise. Pedigree good then, better now.
- [89:21]
Tony Ayo (The Real Report Advertiser)
Oh, hear that?
- [89:24]
Pedigree Dog Food Advertiser
That's the Spam brand singing you a love song. Spam, Sizzle pork and mmm.