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- [00:02]
Katy Charlwood
Hey everyone, it's Kel Penn.
- [00:03]
Myles Gray
I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
- [00:11]
Katy Charlwood
Every episode I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new
- [00:15]
Myles Gray
audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or
- [00:26]
Katy Charlwood
wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
Myles Gray
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- [02:16]
Katy Charlwood
Hello delicious friends and welcome to the 200th episode of who did what Now History podcast. That is not your history class with me your host Katy Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. And yes, this is an extra episode because with the months planned, the months in it, you know the next one was gonna be about a dude and I was like let's not do that. And so I wanted to talk about someone who has been on my to do list since since the get go. Like there's about I think 80 people in events that I was just like I need to talk about, you know. And the one, the only Belle Gunness is part of this because it's got everything. We've got coins, we got schemes, we've got Moira and we have a mystery. But before we get into that, I have news. I have actual news. I am going on tour. Now, two dates currently have been announced which is Belfast and Los Angeles. And you might be thinking those are two very different places and you would be correct, they're on different sides of the Atlantic. But just so you know as well, at time of recording, a quarter of the tickets of the Belfast show are gone. So if you want to see me in Belfast, as far as I know, it's my only north of Ireland show so far. But yes, if you want to come see me, I am going to be there now. Which also means get a move on la. You're making me look bad. No, in all seriousness, if you go to the event page on my website, whodidwhatnowpod.com there is an option to let me know where you want me to go. There's an option of adding your email, like in that form as well, to be notified of like when I am in your locale. So there's like, like forms for like Canada, US and Europe. So depending on where you are, like, I, I, I am securing dates as we speak and they will be released when things are locked in. So, so yeah, links are all down below and more dates will be added. So just keep your eyes peeled. And I am, I'm so excited to go on tour. Like, I am so excited. Like, I miss being on tour also, just in case you forgot, I don't do the same show twice. Like it's never the same story. It's always, always different. I'm never talking about the same piece of history or the same person. Like there can be overlap sometimes, but it's never exactly the same. And basically like the Los Angeles show won't be the same as the Pittsburgh show, which will be different to the San Francisco show. And obviously like Dublin, Belfast, Galway, they're all gonna be, they're all gonna be different. Okay?
- [05:27]
Bethenny Frankel
So,
- [05:30]
Katy Charlwood
yeah, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, katie, please, I know it's your 200th episode, but quit your jibber jabber. In fact me, in fact you. I will. But first we've got to get our source on our sources are. The Truth About Belle Guinness by Lillian de La Tour, Hell's Princess the Mystery of Belle Guinness Butcher of Men by Harold Schechter, America's Femme Fatale. The Story of Belginnis by Jane Simon Amison. We also have Belg, Lady Bluebeard by Jenna McAlpine and Iris Dixon. And we have articles from contemporary articles from the Chicago Tribune, the St. Louis Post Dispatch, La Grande Evening observer, and the Connersville Times. Are you sitting comfortably?
- [06:35]
Lisa (licensed psychotherapist)
Good.
- [06:36]
Katy Charlwood
Then let's begin. I am so excited to tell you about Hell's Bell. Like the mistress of murder, Hell, the butcher of men, Lady Bluebeard, one Mrs. Belle Gunness. But before I do content warning, I will be talking about a lot of horrible stuff here from violent crimes, murder, miscarriage, infanticide and desecration of a corpse. Now, if that sounds like it might be a bit much for you, feel free to exit stage left and we'll catch you next time. And now, Tabell Sabel Gunness was born Brynhild Paul's daughter, Storzith in Selbu Sortrandelag. Why did I make it all French there? Sartrand du lag. In Norway. In Norway. That's in Norway. And that is on the 11th of November, 1859, to Paul Peterson, a stonemason and tenant farmer, and Barrett Old Stoddard. Now, Brynhild, she was the youngest of eight children, right? And. Yeah, yeah, so she's, she's the youngest to this couple and we don't know much about, like, her childhood and her schooling, but she's growing up on a Cotto's farm, right. And she probably went to an Almusconen, which is a one room sort of primary elementary school. Well, she would have learned, you know, the three Rs, reading, writing, arithmetic. But she also would have had a very Lutheran, like, religious, I'm gonna say, curriculum. So when she's 14, she started working on neighboring farms to like, earn some money, which is like the same age that she was confirmed in the Church of Norway, which is a Lutheran church. So she's working on these farms, she's doing farmhand work, she's doing dairy farming. And this is hard work. Like, this is full on very physical, very, you know, laborious. It's very, very hard work. Now when she's 17, she does leave this and she goes to work as a domestic servant because it's very common. It's a very common thing that they did and it was part of it for years. And most families actually would have a servant of some kind, but you had to, like, treat that servant with respect. It was very much like a, a whole thing. So I think we talked on this, we touched on it in the, in the episode of Elizabeth Stride and, and the five canonical Victims of Jack the Ripper. I was gonna say Charles the Ripper. Who's Charles? But servant work and domestic work was very, very typical of the era. So you would go and you would get domestic work with another family. Okay, so this is where the rumor mill starts churning in. And, okay, according to research by Radford University, she marries at 17, and she married a man whose name I could not find. And allegedly, she's pregnant, and he beats her so badly that she miscarries, and then a month later, he's dead. Now, I could not find any information, like, any. Anything on this whatsoever, but apart from this, like, one, like, piece of research.
- [10:37]
Bethenny Frankel
And.
- [10:37]
Katy Charlwood
And, yeah, yeah, this feels a little bit like that sort of justification explanation regarding future actions. It's like, oh, well, this happened. Now, another rumor goes about that a wealthy farmer gets her pregnant, and so that's why she has to leave. But, like, she's working and she's trying to earn money, but she never actually earns enough money to leave. Her sister Olena had actually left years before, had got married, and it was Olena and her husband that actually funded Brynhild's exodus, shall we say, because there was a mass Norwegian exodus, you know, to the US and so off she went. And, like, this is at 21 years old. And so she moves to the United States of America, to Chicago, where her sister Nellie has settled, because Olena, she now goes by Nellie. Now, when Brynhild arrives in the us, she goes through the immigration centre at Castle island, and she anglicises her name to Bela Peterson. So she moves in with her sister and brother in law in Chicago, where she gets a job as a domestic servant, because she's already done it. That's something she can do. Okay, sidebar. Actually, you know how some people are, like, my family came over on the Mayflower to just show, like, how far back their roots go, usually as an excuse to be at least a little bit racist. And also, the way some of these people are talking, like, the Mayflower was as big as the Titanic, you know, I mean, like, in that same vein, you know, you'll get people who are like, my ancestors came through Ellis island, which. Okay, that's. That's actually fairly recent historically, because before that they would have gone through Castle Gardens, which is like, oh, Castle Garden. I keep wanting to, like, pluralize it, but they would have gone through Castle Garden, which is like, at the top of Manhattan, like, in Battery Park. And so from 1855 to 1890, I think maybe 92 up to 92, because Ellis island is opened in 92. Like, that is when everyone would have, like, gone through. They would have gone through New York and they would have gone through Battery park, right? And right. Bella, she's in Chicago, which is fun fact, was a hub of immigrant communities. You had Irish, you had German, you had Italian, you had Scottish, Polish, Norwegian, you also had Jewish, etc. And by 1890, 90% of the population of Chicago were born to foreign parents, right? Like, that's it. So she's in Chicago, she's working as a domestic servant, which she did not enjoy. And then she also gets a job later on as a butcher because she grew up rural, okay. She worked on farms and she wasn't afraid of handling or chopping up a carcass. This may be something to consider later on. And, like, initially, her English, it's not great, but she picks it up quickly. And then after three years of living in Chicago, she meets Mads Dudlev, Anton Sorensen, a night watchman at a department store. Which department store? I don't know, I couldn't find it. So Mads was also a Norwegian immigrant. They courted for a short while and then they married in 1884. Now, I saw someone try to add, like, some spookiness to this by being, like, making a big deal about the fact that Bella wore a black dress to her wedding. Now, white wedding dresses, they weren't really a thing. Again, for a lot of history, women wore the best dress they owned, regardless of colour. And Queen Victoria popularized the white wedding dress when she married Prince Albert. Now, one, this was a way to showcase, like, British lace and stuff, but also white dresses. You know, if you're wealthy, it doesn't matter if your dress will get dirty. Like, it shows that you're not going to get dirty because you've got this beautiful white dress. It's nothing to do with virginity and purity. That's a bollocks, right? That's made up. That's like retroactive filling in the blanks, you know what I mean? And yeah, I'm, I'm no fashion historian. Let's get that out there. But I don't really think a German English queen is going to be inspiring fashion trends for working class Norwegians in the 1800s. And okay, and one more thing, the picture you see make the rounds of Belle Gunness is a portrait of her and her kids from when she's in her 40s. And. Oh, oh, like people aged differently back then. I mean, just look at a Yule book from the 1980s. Like, every 17 year old looks like they're at least 35. But if you look at her wedding portrait, she looks grand. She looks normal, right? I mean, she's not some hideous, hulking monster. Like, the amount of articles I read, they were like, she was huge. She was ugly. She was nearly six foot tall. She, she was five seven, five eight tops, right? Like, I don't know what to tell you, but five' eight is not nearly six foot men on dating apps. She was not some giant about to grind bones to make her bread. I mean, maybe, but she wasn't. But she was tall and she was strong, right? But she wasn't some hideous, repugnant bitch beast. She was still fairly attractive, especially within the time period, you know, and the culture. Okay, sidebar. I'm going to go back to the height thing. Lads, if you're listening, most women don't care about height. We don't. They don't care about height. You are right. Just be honest about it. Now, I know that I've personally dated men from like 5 foot 2 to 5 foot 2 and a half and 6. 5. And I, I don't, I don't give a shit. I don't give a sht, right? I mean, that being said, my ideal man is Roger Rabbit. So effectively, I just need someone to be at least bib height. And I'm, I'm good. You know what I mean? But I digress. Bella married Mads, and the first decade of their marriage is fairly uneventful. Now, this marriage doesn't produce children, at least not exactly. Let's keep that in mind. She absolutely dotes on her niece Olga. And, like, Olga would spend quite a lot of time with Mads and, and Bella, like up to six weeks at a time, right? Just that's, that's over a month. Like that. Is that, is that like, summertime thing? Is the child not in school or are they also going to school while also in the care of Auntie Bella and Uncle Mads? Like, she's there so much that Bella at one point just goes to her sister Nellie and is like, can I keep her? And being fairly reasonable, Nellie is like, no, absolutely not. And now this puts a bee in Bella's bonnet and the sisters barely ever speak again. Now here she is, childless and does not even have her niece anymore. And in 1891, luck smiles on Bella, because in the Norwegian community, there was a terminally ill woman. Yeah, I said luck smelled on Bella. I didn't say it, you know, smelled on Mrs. Olsen here. So she has an eight month old baby girl. And Bella convinces the dying woman to give her custody of baby Jenny Olsen. Now, Jenny's dad isn't exactly interested in his daughter until he remarries, because of course he does. But he tries to get custody of Jenny, but, like, again, not until after he's remarried. Like, the courts are basically, you know, hey, where have you been up until now? Right? And they grant permanent custody to Bella, which, I mean, okay, there was a, this is a time, okay, where women and children were the property of men. So, yeah, outsourcing the rearing of your child until you got a replacement wife didn't really put the ball, like, in your court. Like, that's what happened. And also the consensus was that Bella absolutely, like, doted on this baby girl. Like, she looked after her like she showered her with love and affection and. And she was just like spoiled, like all that stuff, you know, she was being like a very, like, I'm going to say intense mother, but also like a very overtly caring mother. Like, at least from the outside. And so now you have Mads, Bella and baby Jenny. So they have a proper little family. They should have been set now. Right? Right. Like, everything should be fine now. Completely normal.
- [21:06]
Lisa (licensed psychotherapist)
But.
- [21:06]
Katy Charlwood
Oh. Oh, you sweet summer child. No.
- [21:13]
Myles Gray
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- [21:45]
Hoda Kotb
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- [22:47]
Bethenny Frankel
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- [23:23]
Lisa (licensed psychotherapist)
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Hoda Kotb
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- [24:18]
Lisa (licensed psychotherapist)
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- [24:24]
Katy Charlwood
In 1894, Bella and Mads had saved up enough money to set up their own business, which is the American dream. Now they set up a store. Now, a lot of reports will say that this is a candy store or a confectionery store, but it's more like a convenience store or a newsagent's. Like it was on Grand Avenue and Edward street. So it's like in a really good spot. And it sold papers and tobacco like newspapers, not just rolling papers, although it probably also sold rolling papers, cigars. It also had confectionery and sweets and stationery. Like all, all the typical stuff that you get in your general store right now. For whatever reasons, this did not do well. Right, Long story short, within a year it was failing, floundering even, because, like, about a year after opening, it was clear that the business was on its last legs. And what do you know? Danger. Willow Robinson. Danger. A fire breaks out in the store with Bella and three year old Jenny inside. Bela ends up running out into the street carrying Jenny in her arms, just screaming, fire.
- [25:52]
Lisa (licensed psychotherapist)
Fire.
- [25:53]
Katy Charlwood
Like. And while she's running around, the neighbours call the fire department. But it's, it's too late. The store had just been destroyed. It was basically sindals and charred wood and ash. Now, the frame was still there, but everything inside was just gone. Luckily for the Sorensons, their store was insured. Nobella told everyone that a lamp had exploded and started the fire, even though there was no evidence of that happening. The insurance company said, yeah, seems legit. After the payout, the Sorenses sold the store, like what was left of it anyway, back to the brother of the original owner and they moved out of the city centre and into the Bubs. So they settled in the small suburb of Austin and their family from there grew. Now, we're not sure how many children were biologically mad in Bella's, I mean, if, if at all, because no neighbours ever recalled seeing Bella pregnant. And also the math, it's not quite mathing because she's in her late 30s and I mean there is the possibility of Irish twins, but between 1896 and 1898, four children joined the family. Caroline, Myrtle, Axel and Lucy. Caroline died at five months old in 1896 and Axel at three months old in 1898, both of acute colitis, officially. So acute colitis is the inflammation of the large intestine and it was both a common and fatal illness in infants at the time. And so their deaths didn't really raise any red flags. Now again, also, life expectancy the way it was, children died quite a lot and Bella did have life insurance policies on these children and the companies paid out. Given what happens later though, it is presumed that she may have poisoned these children with strychnine. If you have listened to, you know, series one of my other podcast, Day and Nightshade, you'll know by now that all roads are lead to strychnine, unlike over here where all roads lead to dysentery. But yeah, the symptoms of strychnine poisoning can exhibit like those of acute colitis. And like again, it's, it's not that unusual because about 150 infants per 1,000 born died in the first year it was very, very typical, you know. So another major event in the Sorenson household happened in 1897 when Angus Ralston, a representative of the Yukon Mining and Trading Company, came knocking on their door looking for prospectors to join the company and earn their fortune. Bella, this is amazing. She's all in, right? But Mats, he's apprehensive, but she does sort of coax and convince him to sign for a year's service. April 1898 to 1899, the 1st of April I might add. All fools date of all things. But basically Angus comes in and he's like, yeah, you'll get this really good wage and you'll get a quarter of all the profits made by any minds that are discovered by Mads during his one year service. So you're also getting this like extra bit on top of, you know, your, your actual wages. But wait, there's more. Because the lady of the house would be without a breadwinner for a year up in the Yukon. The company would also provide Bella with a stipend and they would also get company shells on top of this as well. But in order to lock this in, they had to invest $700 up front, which is what in today's money? Like nearly 20k, I think. And basically the $700 was this promissory note and they had to have the house as collateral. And this money was supposed to cover like supplies and like tenancy and stuff up there in the Yukon. Now the couple only clocked that it was a scam when the transport that was supposed to take Mads out west did not show up. And they haven't heard anything, there's no news. And so they go to their lawyer, right? They unearth the scam and they have to go to court to remove the responsibility for the promissory note. Because what Angus had done is he had, you know, sold the promissory note. And so basically they could have lost their house. Now their lawyer does like some proper digging. It's like his company doesn't have all his minds, it doesn't really have anything and doesn't really exist. It's like it's just like a big massive scam. And I think a good rule of thumb is for anything is if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is, right? Just err on the side of caution with everything in life. So Mads, he ends up going back to work at the department store. And so he's there for another while. And then any crazy random happenstance, the sorensen's home burned down in 1900 in a case of definitely not arson. And the insurance company just paid out again. I think it was, like, pre the 1950s, I think it's 1954 or 57. There was like. The insurance companies were just like, yeah, seems right, seems legit. There you go. Here's your money. And now they. They've gone the complete opposite way, where they're like, oh, you've done everything right. We're gonna make a loophole to make sure we don't pay you now. I say the house burnt down, right? The house didn't actually burn down. The contents got destroyed. But, you know, luckily the insurance covered that. Now, three months later, I mean, they're just unlucky because tragedy strikes again on the 30th of July, 1900, Madge comes home from work suffering from a cold, and he's got this, like, massive headache. And, like, proper bad. It's a doozy. So Bella, being a dutiful and considerate wife, gave him a dose of quinine, or quinine powder, I should say, and sent him off to bed. So she's going about her day. She makes a dinner, and when she goes up to, you know, rouse him for dinner, she finds him fully clothed, laying upon the bed, lifeless. Dr. J.C. milla, the family physician, was called, and the cause of death was cerebral hemorrhage. Now, Dr. Miller, like, he is concerned that the pharmacist may have made a mistake and swapped over, like, medication and possibly accidentally given Mads morphine instead of the quinine, right? And so he's like, hey, can I check that little paper? Can I check the package? I want to see just in case. And she's like, oh, dear, I already got rid of it because I gave it to him and then got rid of it because I had no reason to keep it at all. No evidence here. Oh, dear. Whips a daisy. It was incredibly fortuitous for Belle that her husband died on that exact day, because it was the last day of one policy with one company and the first day of a new policy with another company. Again, seems legit. So both policies paid out. So you had $2,000 from one and 3,000 from the other. Now, in today's money, that is over $150,000. Now, as a wealthy widow, she needed a more suitable home for her and her children. And so she's. She's searching, she's researching, she's looking for somewhere good to go. And then in November 1901, she upped sticks and moved to Altic House. A 13 room farmhouse with a 48 acre plot, La Porte County, Indiana. Fun fact, that house was once a brothel. New neighbourhood, new life, new name. So she now introduced herself as Belle. So she took away the A from the end. So she gets there to La Porte. It's got old tracts of land and Belle was going to utilise it and start setting up a farm. Enter Peter Gunness. He had known Belle years back and had boarded with her in Mads for a bit. He had since returned to Norway, then returned back to the US to Minneapolis, Minnesota where his brother lived. He got married and had two kids, Swanhild in 1897 and then a second daughter in 1901 whose wife had died during childbirth. Peter was not a widow for long because he married Belle on the 1st of April 1902. Now he, he married her and he brings his two kids and he moves in with Belle, right, like just there you go. Now he is described as like this Viking looking fella, he's like hunky blonde, blue eyed and this is often used as a sort of juxtaposition to like Belle because it's like oh, they're such an odd couple because she's like oh, the goblin under the bridge, you know, that's a troll. The troll under the bridge, like trying to get the bully goats gruff and he's just like this Adonis. But yeah, marriage especially back then wasn't really about love. It was convenience a lot of the time, you know, because women couldn't own anything and so they needed security and men, I don't know, couldn't cook I guess. And so, and so yeah, he sees this, you know, she's got land and a 13 room house and all this stuff and he's Lincoln sweet, convenient. So yeah, yeah. So they have their old time in marriage and five days, five days after their nuptials, his seven month old daughter died officially of oedema of the lungs. Now I also could not find the name of, of child number two. Like it didn't, it did not come up. But yeah, the couple were only married eight months when another tragedy would befall them. Peter had an unfortunate accident with a sausage grinder. 12 year old Jenny armed with a poker like a stove poker or a fire iron I think you call it. She's banging on the door of their nearest neighbours like Swan Nicholson and his family. So she's huffing and puffing about how papa burnt himself. The men race over with Jenny to find Belle hysterical in the kitchen with a bloodied Peter Laying on the kitchen floor in just his night shot. One of the men left and returned with Dr. Bowl, the county coroner. Now, Bol observed that Peter had a broken nose, a wound on the back of his head, and he's like, hey, this is suspicious. So he's like, belle, what the hell? Pray do tell. What occurred here? Okay. So she said that he'd gone to the kitchen to get his shoes that were warming by the stove. Then in a final destination moment, as he bent down to pick up the toasty shoes, the sausage grinder fell from the top shelf, hitting him on the back of his head. And as he's sort of falling down, he knocks over a bowl of hot brine that had been like, on the counter, which scalded his neck. So basically he's leaning over, tries to grab his shoes. As he's leaning over, the sausage grinder falls from the top shelf of its own accord and he gets struck. And then as he is like wobbling, his arm flails and he bangs against the bowl. And as he's falling to the ground, the ball of brain like, scalds his neck. Now, Albert's one swan Nicholson's son was like, hey, anyone think this looks like murder? Like, and his dad is shut me down. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, don't do this cuz it might bring trouble for Mrs. Guinness. Now I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to be like, snitches get stitches. But. But also he's just like, careful, she did this to him. What if he did this to you? But also, is this. Is this like, oh, we don't want, you know, let belt come and get you next. Or is this like, oh, this was a domestic dispute. Let's not get involved in this, buddy. Like, it feels like it could be either way, you know. Dr. Bull carried out the post mortem and there were no burn marks or scalds on Peter Gunness body. The nose was broken and lacerated as if it had received severe blows. And the back of the head had a deeper wound. And he recorded the cause of death as shock plus pressure caused by the fracture. Naturally, he's thinking, oh my goodness. Peter came down with a severe case of the murders. And so he calls for an inquest into the death of Peter Gunness, which was held at the house. Right, at Altic house.
- [42:04]
Bethenny Frankel
Basically.
- [42:05]
Katy Charlwood
It's reported as mysterious and suspicious. But Belle herself is never implicated, like Belle and Jenny are. You know, they're both testifying and their statements are so close, in a way, it's almost as if they're rehearsed. But also they're very contradictory, like. Like. Jenny manages to, like, be aware of events that she shouldn't have known about because she was supposed to be asleep and she wouldn't have seen, but, you know. Yeah. So it's. It's. It's like, it's, it's. It's not. It's not optimum. However, in the end, Peter's death was officially classed as accidental death by sausage grinder. So the inquest was done and Belle was in the clear. But people were suspicious, none more so than Peter's brother Gus. Gus was curious to see if Peter's life insurance policy had paid out to Peter's daughter, Swanhild. Belle informed him that Peter had changed it, instead investing in a mining company. Angus Rose didn't eat your heart out. This is. This is so sneaky, right? Naturally, he asks to see the Shales and Belle's like, I don't have access to them right now. Now at dinner, you know, Gus says to her, he's like, you sure you don't have it? And she's like, no, it's somewhere. I don't know where. And she's like, hey, Gus, it would be so nice for you to stay at the farm with us, you know, and be with us and the children and help out. Wouldn't you mind staying for a while? The very next morning, Gus and Swanhild had scarpered because his spidey senses were tingling. And in the middle of the night, Uncle Gus said, fuck this for game of soldiers, grabbed his niece and headed back to Minneapolis without the insurance policy. Because he's like, I don't. I don't like the sound of this. And I quite like my niece being alive. So Belle continued working on her farm and her neighbours, they did not get along. So her cows would wander into a neighbor's land so much that, like, he penned them in and charged her a dollar for their return. Because, like, girl just build a fence, I guess. Now, when she finds his cows on the side of the road, she herds them into her land and charges him a dollar. And when he tries to open the gate, Belle told Jenny to go get her revolver. Her neighbors also thought that she was a bit of an odd fish for taking on the farm chores herself after Peter died. Now, because, as you know, all chores are gendered, even if you live alone, right? If there isn't a man to take out the rubbish in my house, it Just sits there stewing for days, weeks even. But no, she's working on the farm. She's going to livestock auctions by herself and she's deadlifting pigs into her wagon. But eventually the farm was just too much for her to manage on her own. So she puts an advert out in a Norwegian language newspaper, the Scandinavian, basically saying that she's seeking a farmhand. Oh yeah. At one point during this, like time, she acquires a baby boy, right? He's just there in the house one day. This is Philip. Philip is just there, he's clean, he's bathed. Like, Jenny's just like, mum got a baby. And this midwife is like, I'm sorry, what? What do you mean she got a baby? And she knows that, you know, Belle's over there on her own and she rushes over and she sees like, Belle just working outside with this like, fresh, clean baby. And she's like, girl, you need to rest. And she's like, ah, back in the old country, nobody rests after getting a baby. And it's like, where did you get the baby from?
- [46:41]
Hoda Kotb
Belle?
- [46:42]
Katy Charlwood
Whose baby is this? But yes, Belle has put an advertisement looking for farmhands. 30 year old Olaf Limbo answered the ad. He was a farm labourer from Indiana and thought this was the deal of a lifetime. He moved onto the farm with all of his possessions and his life savings in tow. He writes home to his parents in Norway about how he's met his future wife, a wealthy widow with property. Not only is he writing home about it, he is blethered in the pub about how he and Belle were engaged. A couple days after telling anyone and everyone, after a few drinks, well, Olaf just wasn't around anymore. And when a loud person disappears suddenly, people notice. And neighbour Kris Kristofferson is like, hey, where's Olaf? And Belle tells him that, oh, he went to the World's Fair in St. Louis to buy some land. Meanwhile, she tells Svan Nicholson that Olaf returned to Norway and when his parents hadn't heard from him in a while, they write to Belle asking where she, where he is. And she's like, somewhere else. But with Olaf gone, a position was available and it was soon filled by Henry Gerholt. In April 1905, Henry also writes home to Norway telling his family how he's living with a kind woman on a beautiful farm and he's treated like one of the family. But then he too disappears. Like, Belle is just having the worst luck with farmhands. Kris Kristofferson, he inquires after Henry and Belle says that he's gone to Chicago but he leaves without his good coat and Bill happened to be wearing it because like if you're gonna go, if you're gonna go to like a town city which I have been told by many people is all of the weathers you want to have your coat. Okay, so now Belle is looking for the next step in her life and so she puts a new ad in the classifieds. Comely widow, who owns a large farm in one of the finest districts of La Porte County, Indiana, desires to make the acquaintance of a gentleman equally well provided with a view of joining fortunes. No replies considered unless sender is willing to follow answer with personal visit Triflers need not apply. It was signed BG and the ad went local and international. And then Bell just sat back and waited to see if any suitors would respond and oh, did they.
- [50:00]
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- [53:12]
Katy Charlwood
the postmaster would bring up that Belle received about eight to ten letters per day. And they were from all over the US and so she was reading through, she was, you know, swiping left or right, finding the right person. And one such sitter was Andrew Helgelien, a 49 year old Norwegian farmer from South Dakota. Andrew was interesting. He had a past. He had spent time in prison for robbing a post office. And then in an attempt to get rid of the evidence, he burnt it down. Like, okay, they both like crime, they both like arson. I mean, you'd think things would go well, but this was 12 years before and he was a new man. And so he and Bell corresponded in Norwegian for over a year. I think it was close to 18 months, right? They sent each other, I think, 75 letters or so. And it's all Norwegian. The spelling is terrible, but the best translations, we have all of the letters that Bell sent him. We do not know what his responses were, but these letters, a lot of them are like, come look at my big fancy farm. And then there's a bunch of like love bombing stuff and more things. And we're going to get into that later because meanwhile, Bill Guinness did hire a labourer for her farm, Emil Greening. And so he witnessed, I'm gonna call it a conveyor belt of men arriving on Belle's doorstep to prove themselves worthy of her. Bel referred to these men as cousins. I mean they're all, they're all Norwegian. So she's like, hey. Or I mean they're all Scandinavian at least, so they just speak Norwegian. And so these cousins would stay in her room with her. Now these cousins never stayed for long and often left behind their trunks and other belongings. I think there was one like worker who was like, there was just a room of trunks, just so many trunks. In June, Jenny, who was now a beautiful 16 year old, told everyone that she was going to California for college. And so, you know, people want to say goodbye, but she leaves abruptly and no one ever hears from her again. And by June the following year, Emil Green egg, he quits his job and moves away and he is replaced by Ray Lamphere. Ray's father had been, you know, very prominent in the area. He was a schoolteacher, a politician, a justice of the peace. But he was fond of a drink and basically pissed away his fortune and his reputation. Ray was also fond of a drink and a gamble and spending time with ladies of the night. Now when he wasn't boozing right when he was dry, he was like a really talented carpenter. But the moment he's got some boozing them, it's not great. So Ray, after moving into Altic house, was bumping his gums about how he and Belle were getting down right, and that she was a hellcat in the sack. Like he was talking about like how they were like boinking. Now the affair fizzled out. By the time that Andrew Helgelien showed up, yes, they had been writing that low. So she told Andrew to keep their relationship on the down low and to not let anyone know that he was coming. She's like, I want to tell people after. I want this to just be like about us. It's like a secret, but it's like a surprise, you know, it's gonna be like really fun, but don't tell anybody. And also sell all your stuff. Don't leave your money behind. Come with me and sew your money into your underwear so that nobody knows it's there. Andrew did tell his brother Assel that he was going away for a week. Now he's like, I'm away For a week, but I'll be back. And so he shows up in la Porte on the 3rd of January, 1908. So you may be wondering like the conveyor belt of men that were coming into the house. Now not everybody who like visited, well, not everyone made it through the first stage. And then people who did make it through the first stage and they visited her, if they didn't have like a thousand dollars savings, then they were tossed out. They weren't like worth her time. So like having a little bit less money saved a few people. But back to Andrew. So when Andrew comes over, Ray was relegated out to the barn. So there's a room in the barn and he's out there. And Andrew gets Ray's room. Now it's a 13 room house. Are you trying to tell me you couldn't have a room full ray in the 13 room house? No. Okay. So she also warns Ray not to speak to Andrew. Now this is all according to Ray, by the way. Like, we don't have Belle's side of this for reasons. So three days after Andrew shows up there, the couple, Belle and Andrew, they go to the bank to cash his certificates of deposit from his South Dakota bank. Now the teller tells him it's going to take like five days to cash it because they need to like send the stuff to the other bank for approval and then for the money to get to them. And Andrew's like, okie dokie. And Belle, she's pissed. Like she went off on a full on Karen rant. Like she's demanding the money now and the bank's just like, no, we don't have it. So they come back on the 14th. So over five days, because Andrew had been feeling ill, they took the deposit of $2,839, which in today's money is approximately $75,000. Then it was all good and they lived happily ever after. Bah. No, no, no. So while the tailor's counting the money, they're like, hey, so got any plans? What you doing? And like Andrew is just responding with small talk, as one does in the bank. And Bella's just like, it's none of your business. Like, like absolutely, like mind your own beeswax, sir. Later that night, Belle sends Ray away to Chicago to meet with a man about a horse, her cousin John. And that if for whatever reason she says to him, if John doesn't make the meeting, just stay in Chicago overnight and meet him first thing in the morning. So when he gets there, he gets to designated location Chicago. And John doesn't show up. He's like, okay, you know what? I don't want to stay overnight in Chicago. It's early enough. I'll get back. Now, Ray says this as a sort of, oh, I'm gonna go check on things. I'm just gonna go back. But Ray tells his friend, he's like, I want to see what the broad is up to. Like, she's up to something. I want to figure it out. And so, right. He gets back to the farm around 9pm and ha. What do you know? Andrew is gone. Mysteriously gone. Like, who would do such a thing? And a few weeks later, something goes awry in altic house. Now, Ray and Belle, they seem to have some kind of set to. Now, I don't know whether, like, he quit or she fired him, but his employment ceased and. Right. Whom's to say how it went about? But so he storms off 3rd of February, 1908, and goes to his attorney. And so his attorney tells him that he has to go back to the farm to get his back pay and his stuff and to threaten to sue Belle, which. Okay, okay. Clearly this man does not know who Belle is, because that's not a good idea. But Ray's like, mother didn't raise no fool. So he goes back there and Belle scares him off with a pistol. Like, she brandishes a pistol at him and she's like, I will shoot you. So she ends up writing to the sheriff about re harassing her and her family, reporting that he's skulking around the land and he is actually. Because what he would do is he would get drunk and then he would go and like, trespass. And so he ends up being arrested in March and pleads guilty to trespassing. Meanwhile, in South Dakota, Andrew's brother Asla, he's worried and he's like, his brother was supposed to come back. It's been a while. And so he goes into his cabin and like, he didn't get rid of all this stuff. Like, he still had, you know, a bank account, he still had his livestock. Like, they were all still there. And he's like, this is weird, right? So he goes into the cabin and he goes to search for clues, you know, like Scooby Doo. And off he goes and he finds this big pile of letters and so this abundance of letters to Belle. And so he writes to Belle and he's like, where's my brother? And Belle's like, yeah, I'd like to know that too. She tells him that Andrew stopped by on the way on the Way to find another brother they had who was some kind of gambler, and he was off to find him, right? And then he says he was in Chicago and was planning to return to Norway. So the story kind of switches and changes, right? And she's like, he's was here, like, a little bit, but not much, not really. And so Asla asked Belle to send on, like, this letter that his brother wrote saying that he's in Chicago so that he could read him himself. But alas, she could not because the letter had been stolen. Those dang rotten letter thieves. In fairness, she actually says that Ray Lamphere, like, broke into the house and stole his letter for reasons. Now, Ray did have a habit of getting drunk and trespassing onto the Gunness farm, and she tries to get him declared insane, but his doctor is Dr. Bull, who's like, no, he's fine. He's drunk, but he's fine. And on the 15th of April, Ray was on trial for all of the trespassing malarkey. And his lawyer just goes hell for leather against Belle. So she's on the stand and he is just railroading her about the deaths of her husbands and their life insurance payouts. Like, he is so aggressive and in her face that the judge is like, banging the gavel and is like, sir, no, that's a bit much. So the result is Ray ends up being found guilty and is charged like the court costs, plus $5. Less than a week later, Ray is arrested for trespassing, and Belle receives another letter from Asla saying that he's coming to La porte to try and track down Andrew. So Belle said, of course she's happy to help in any way she can, right? And then as she's going out and about during her day, she's telling anyone and everyone who'll listen that Ray had been threatening her for some time, that he had gotten really jealous when Andrew showed up, and that she was very worried about what he would do to her and her children. On 27 April, she meets with her solicitor, like her lawyer, and she updates her will and testament because she's so scared of Ray that she's worried something's going to happen. And in the event of her death, all of her money and her property should go to her children. Myrtle, Lucy and Philip. Notice anyone missing from this list? What about Jenny? Where's Jenny? If the children were deceased, the entire estate would go to the Norwegian children's home of Chicago. So this same day, the children, you know, they go into school and they're really upset. And their teacher is like, you guys are like, like upset so much that even in a time of corporal punishment that they're like, something's wrong and you know, they're crying. They were playing and they had gone to like play in the cellar and they're forbidden from enter the cellar, but they were kids and they were going to go in the cellar anyway. And Belle catches them going into the cellar, drags them out and then beats the everlasting out of them, right? So these kids are just very upset. They're just, you know, emotions on high. Meanwhile, Belle goes to her bank and she gets her will and she puts it in her safe deposit box and she also deposits $730. She stops off at the grocery store to get treats for the children, some sweets, a cake and a toy train. She also purchased a fuckton of groceries and 2 gallons of kerosene. And that's just over 3.7 liters for those of you who use the metric system. While she's shopping, Ray Lanphear shows up and he's doing his shopping. Neither one acknowledges the other, but Ray followed her outside and watched her ride away in her wagon. And you know, the person in the till in the shop is just like, okay, that's weird. Especially because everything that'd been going around about him. So that evening, Ray's replacement, Joseph Maxson, he had dinner with the family and he said it was much larger than usual, it was basically a feast. And so by 8.30pm, he is heading to bed. He is so tired, like unusually so. And so he's decided to hit the hay all while the family are playing after dinner. So they're like playing with the train and stuff, and they're just having a good time. And he's just like, that's sweet. I'm off to bed. So he goes in, he lays down, he goes to sleep. Joe wakes up around 4 in the morning and he's drowsy as hell. And at first he thinks that Mrs. Guinness is bundling the breakfast. Then he realises his room is full of smoke. Joe leaps out of bed and throws on some bottoms because nobody needs to be dulling or ducking it when there's a fire. He looks out his window and sees that the house is ablaze. So he tries to call out to Mrs. Gunness and the children, but the smoke is so thick. And so he grabs what he can, so like just personal items, necessities, and leaps out of the room just to see the roof collapse in the very room he had just Been sleeping in. Ella Clifford had gotten up to make her husband breakfast when she saw the smoke and flames coming from the Altic house. So she sees this happen. She alerts her husband, her son and her brother in law who all rush over to see Joe hacking at the front door with an axe, trying to reach the gunnesses. The men prop a ladle next to the house just to see if they can see into any of the rooms with the way that everything is coming down. And so they get on top and they're looking in the children's bedroom but they don't see anything. So Joe, he leaves to get the sheriff and he returns around 5am with the volunteer fire department and the sheriff in tow. But you know, they try and do like a bucket chain, but there's nothing they can do at this point. They manage to get things under control and you know, but the house is, the house is burnt down. By the afternoon when the home, you know, was basically walls and ash, they started to inspect the area and they saw something unusual. It was as if the fire had started deliberately and it was started at the cellar door. And the sheriff, he immediately thinks of Ray Lamphe. Back in the remains of the house, the place was searched for anything, anyone. And in the southeast corner of the cellar were four bodies. Three children and one adult. The adult body was covering the children, all bodies blackened. And the adult, presumably Belle, bones protruded through the skin. Her right arm was gone, her left foot was gone, her right leg was gone up to the knee and her left forearm, it was missing. So like parts of the body are missing. Now initially they say that they're burned off and then it's kind of they were burned, they were chopped, so on and so forth. And the worst part of all, this body of this adult woman in the cellar, it was missing a head. Her internal organs, they didn't really show signs of damage, especially for the way the rest of the body had been charred. Ray was picked up by the cops, like at his work. Two deputies went over and the first thing he says to them was, did the lady and the kids get out of the fire okay? They're like, how did you know about the fire? And he says that he saw it, but he didn't go to do anything about it because it was none of his business. And also he thought he'd get blamed, which fair. But also there's kids in the house, sir. Upon interrogation, Ray said, you know, the way he's needed to alert anyone was actually because he had spent the night with 70 year old Elizabeth Smith. Now maybe he does have mummy issues. Anyway, no, Elizabeth Smith, she's 70. But the reason he doesn't want people to know is because Elizabeth is black. And like there's reports of Elizabeth being like incredibly beautiful and that her lovers were not just men with black faces. Like that is an actual, actual description because she's so hot. She supersedes racial bias. But yeah, he didn't want people to know that he was with her. Now she says that, you know, he had told her to wake him up around about 3:30 but it was closer to 4 when he actually wakes up because his alarm didn't go off or something and she has to wake him up. But yeah, so the initial assumption is that the head was burnt off, but a post mortem examination showed that it had been removed before death. So basically the newspapers are putting out all these stories about like how Set a Blaze woman protects children, all this stuff. And Belle's sister nellie, Jenny's sister, Ms. Olanda and Asla Helgelion all make their way to La Porte. So Nellie's there, you know, to make sure everyone gets a burial to sort out the estate. And Ms. Orlanda, she's as far as she's concerned, she thinks Jenny's gonna be returning back, like from California. And so she's like looking over the well and being like, hey, why is Jenny not on this? So they're biological siblings but they hadn't really spent time together. They kept in correspondence but, but she hadn't heard anything for a while. But when she finds out that, you know, her sister's adopted mother dies and that there's a fire in the house, she's like, well, I should be there, you know. And Asla. Well, on the 3rd of May, Asla arrives at the ruins and he joins Joseph Maxson and neighbour Daniel Huxton to sift the through the ash and rubble in the hope he'd find something. See, Joe and Dan, they are trying to see if they can find the head, right? And Asel, he's like, he's got a bad feeling about this, right? Asla, he's really worried and he's convinced that Andrew's dead. He thinks something fishy is going on and so he asks Joe if any plots had been like dug on the land recently. And Joe's. They often buried like rubbish over by like the pig pen or the privy pit, like things like that. And so Asla's like, take me there. So they go out there and start digging and by the time they hit three, four Foot down. The stench of rot and decay filled the air. The stench of death. A smell so unforgettable because this wasn't just tomato tins and old fish. This was much worse. Wrapped in a burlap sack was a decomposing body. They ended up exhuming it and taking it into the barn. Joe rushed into town to get the sheriff and the coroner. The body had been dismembered. Head, shins, arms, all chopped off. His head had a crack in the skull. The wrists were cut and the fingers were also dismembered. The coroner also checks the context of the stomach, and there is one and a half grains of strychnine and what I believe is the technical term here, a fuck ton of arsenic. So in the 19th century, drugs were plentiful. Like, they're. They're everywhere. Poison's kind of in everything. There's poison everywhere, you know, arsenics everywhere. Goodness. Strychnine, I believe, was still used in rat poison and things like that. And so Joe was like, oh, I mean, I've bought rat poison every now and again. And even Ray was like, yeah, I've gone out and purchased rat poison. Because of course you do. It's the farm. You gotta get rid of the rats, you know. So the sheriff asks Joe if more pets had been dug in. Joe's like, probably. And so they just start digging. And so they're digging all around, like the privy pits and the pig pen, and they find a selection of dismembered body parts and limbs, torsos. There were like, sacks of bones, rotting clothes. And by the afternoon, the coroner believed to have the bodies of two men, one woman and one adolescent girl. Now, the others were hard to identify, but the blonde matted hair of the teenager was recognized by anyone who knew the Gunness family. This was very clearly Jenny. And her body had been discovered on what would have been her 18th birthday. By 6 May, the remains of nine bodies had been uncovered, along with pairs upon pairs of men's shoes. And yet all of the trunks have been kept inside. I mean, they were all burnt to cinders now, but, like, you couldn't have burnt the shoes anyway. Sheriff Smutsar had Ray in prison and he is convinced that he set the fire and he's trying to shut down the rumor that Bell is alive because the newspapers are like, ooh, what if she escaped? Here is a headless body and there's. Especially now that all of these bodies are being uncovered, they're like, oh, what if the serial killer escaped and one newspaper actually Puts out like, oh, careful being a tall Norwegian woman at this time. Danger, danger. Because you might get arrested. So they have to lock down the crime scene, which they don't do, because once it hits the newspaper and it just shows you the obsession with true crime goes way back, right? It goes way back. And so over 16,000 people travel in to see the Murder Farm, right? They're like, selling souvenirs, there's ice cream, they're having picnics where there could be remains underneath, right? Like, they lock it down on the 11th and they bring in Lewis Schultz, a veteran gold prospector, and they have him sift through the cellar to try and find the skull or the. The sheriff, he's convinced that, you know, they should still find her dentures. Like, some reports say she has gold teeth, others porcelain. Either way, the fire wouldn't have burnt through them. So this guy, dentures, he's sifting and then he's like, oh, I found the tooth. It's. It's got no signs of fire damage whatsoever, but I totally found it. And that's his word on the matter. Joe's is a little different, but we'll get back to that in a wee second. So at this point, 14 bodies have been discovered on the farm. And Ray Lamphere's trial begins on the 9th of November, 1908. Now, he claims innocence and that he couldn't have murdered Belle. And this is where it turns into a bit of a sticky wicket. The trial is. It's chaos. It's absolute chaos. And there's like, the coroner gets questioned and it's like, can you tell if this was severed or it was burnt? And it's like, no. And you have these independent, like, autopsies done by, like three different. These three different doctors perform, like, autopsies. And they're like, yeah, things are a mess here. And see the body of the woman in the cellar, it's missing a head, it's missing hands, it's missing feet. She's round about 5 foot 2, 5 foot 4, they say, which is at least 3 to 5 inches shorter than Veil. And this is skinny. Skinny, right? She's 120. And even if you take into consideration, like, you know, fat being burned off. But belle Gunness was 280 pounds. Like, she had a lot of muscle as well as fat, so it doesn't add up. And also it takes like 20 hours to cremate bodies. So the skull, it should not have been cremated in that fire. So Sheriff's Mutzer, he takes to the stand and he regales the court with the history of Bill Gunness and Ray Lanphear. Now, whether he is convinced that Ray did it or he just wants to pin it on Ray, whoms to say, but he's. He's like giving all his reasons as to why Ray did this. Then Joe takes the stand, right? He says that he saw Lewis Schultz take the false teeth from his vest and not the ash that he was sifting. But Louis Schultz is nowhere to be found, right? He's like, the dentist confirms that this is Bell's dental work, right? And the sheriff's like, well, no one would hurt themselves and pull out their own teeth, sir. People have done worse. People have stabbed themselves, shot themselves, set themselves on fire. They've poured acid on themselves just to avoid, you know, being accused of mar d and, you know, things like that. People have done worse. And also, like, again, drugs are everywhere. Drugs. And so she had been out a day or so before, so, like before the 27th. And she purchased morphine, which is pretty potent and it's a good thing to take if you're ripping your teeth out of your face. Is someone who's had their teeth ripped out without anesthesia. A short story, but it's a sore story. My mum used to peel my teeth out with a tea towel and my dad would pin me down because why take a child to the dentist when you can just rip the teeth from their face? Everybody did that, right? That was. That was a 90s thing, I think. Was it? It was, wasn't it? Tell me it was. So Ray ends up being indicted on charges of arson and murder and he's found guilty of the arson, but he's found not guilty of the murders of Belle, Myrtle, Lucy, Philip and Andrew, because they lump him in with the Andrew murder. Like, it's very suspicious. And Ray Lamphere, he doesn't have the money to appeal. And even if he did, he's dead within a year, right? He's in prison and he dies of tuberculosis, like, less than a year after his conviction. And as for Belle Gunness, well, was it her body in the fire? It's missing a head. It's missing other body parts. The teeth, they're pristine. There's no fire damage on them. Like, even the undertaker, when he measures the body, he's like, this woman is about five foot two. Now, granted, we're missing a head, so proportionally as well, the thing is, your outstretched hand is the size of your face. It's just your body is weirdly proportioned most of the Time. And so we don't have hands, so we can't measure that. Like, your foot is usually the length of your wrist to the inside of your elbow. And I think it's like you have seven of your head makes up the rest of your body. So that's probably how the, like, guesstimated it, I suppose. So you have the fire starting point as well. Now, the fire, the point of origin was the cellar door, and this is where the body was found. So if the fire was at the cellar door, why would Belle, with her children, go through the fire and into the cellar? Like, it doesn't make sense to me. And also, like, she's not actually afraid of anyone. Like, clearly she'll hit anybody with a sausage grinder, but I don't think she could have been coerced into the basement. But the theory is, like, with regards to how she swindled these men is they would visit, she would take the money, she would poison them, and then she would hack him up. So she would. I mean, again, she can deadlift a pig. So if you can deadlift, like, a hog, you can deadlift a man, I think. And so she would bring their bodies down into the cellar where she would dismember them, and then she would just get them buried on the farm. Now, she swindled around $1.2 million, like, in today's money. That's what she got from these men. And depending on where you look, the body count is 14, 37, 40, hundreds. Right? Like, and then there's the question of, like, did she escape? Did she leave her children? Did she kill them? Or are these other children's bodies? Right, because she keeps acquiring kids from somewhere. Like, there's all these theories about whether she was doing trafficking or goodness, selling babies and all this kind of stuff. Like, did she flee? Did she choose to end her own life while having, like, one last act of vengeance because she's petty? No. And thus pointing all of it to Rey. Did she survive? Like, there are reports of seeing her for years. And here's the thing. Bit of henna, bit of bleach. She could have changed her hair colour, you know what I mean? She could have stooped, she could have worn a shawl like an old lady. She could have put on an accent.
- [92:06]
Bethenny Frankel
Or
- [92:08]
Katy Charlwood
she could be dead in the cellar. But that is an answer we just don't have when it comes to Belle Gunness. And so ends our terrible tale of Belle Gunness, America's most prolific serial killer, or female serial killer. And also the fact that America's most prolific serial killer is Norwegian. Like, can you guys not do anything right? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But thank you for listening to this 200th episode. Please get your tickets for the tour. Come and see me, Los Angeles. What are you doing? Come on, get your tickets. Beat Belfast. You cannot be beaten by Belfast. Los Angeles. Come on. Come on. What's this? But I'm very excited. I'm very excited to be back. It's gonna be great. Recommendation time for reading. Recommendation time. Okay, it is ready for pre order. It is ready for pre order. So pre order this for my girl, Dr. Esme Louise James and her fiction novel Becoming Venus. Okay, that is your reading. Pre order it. Do it. Women Supporting women. Let's do it. For listening. You should listen to Day and Nightshade because the season one finale is out this week and it's so good. But I did forget about the. The elephant drive by. But that's. I'm sorry. But I did forget anyway for watching and I. Okay, I know it's not out yet. I realize I've just named things that aren't ready yet, but I am so ready for Ride or Die with like, Hannah Waddingham and Octavia Spencer. Like, I am. I need it. And I need it injected straight into my veins. I am ready. But again, thank you. I'm gonna go, but thank you, everybody. This is a bonus episode that I stayed up half the night to write and I. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope it wasn't too blah blah, but I am really excited. I. Things are just. Things are just doing well right now and I'm super excited. So with that, I shall bid you adieu. Adios. Au revoir. Au revoir, my friends. Bye Bye.
- [94:34]
Myles Gray
This is Myles Gray from Ain't It Footy. You never know what can happen when your favorite players take the pitch during the FIFA World Cup 2026. That's what makes it great. An easy win. You can depend on the active cash Visa credit card from Wells Fargo. IT scores unlimited 2% cash rewards on your fanfare purchases. Talk about a win worth celebrating. Terms apply. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Visa Worldwide Partner of the FIFA World Cup 2026.
- [95:02]
Bethenny Frankel
This is Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies. If you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfoodfordogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.
- [96:10]
Katy Charlwood
Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn.
- [96:11]
Myles Gray
I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my PODC, HearSay, the Audible, and iHeart Audiobook Club.
- [96:19]
Katy Charlwood
Every episode, I nerd out with amazing
- [96:21]
Myles Gray
guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or
- [96:34]
Katy Charlwood
wherever you get your podcasts.