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- [00:00]
Herobread Advertiser
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- [00:31]
Kohler Ambassador
When Kohler, global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, asked me to be their ambassador for timeless, elegant, durable cast iron, I said, I'm in. Soon after, I was in their Kohler, Wisconsin foundry watching molten iron poured, enamel applied by hand and the beautiful finished pieces ready to ship. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron has been crafted by incredible artisans and seeing it firsthand cast gave me a whole new appreciation for their craftsmanship. Now I am proud to lend my stamp of approval to my favorite Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and enduring style. Shop my curated picks@kohler.com as the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live cast Iron.
- [01:22]
Herobread Advertiser
There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still.
- [01:26]
Katy Charlwood
Not a chance.
- [01:27]
Herobread Advertiser
You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help.
- [01:31]
Katy Charlwood
Keep going further.
- [01:32]
Herobread Advertiser
Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.
- [01:37]
Katy Charlwood
Think about it.
- [01:38]
Just Food for Dogs Promoter
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- [02:49]
Katy Charlwood
Hello delicious friends, and welcome to who did what now? The history podcast. That is not your history class. With me, your host, Katy Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. And this week, this week has been wild. I had a million followers on Facebook, which wild. Absolutely wild. Now that being said, if TikTok, if tok talk, if TikTok and Instagram could catch up, that would be great. You know what I mean? Anyway, I don't know if you know of the pleasure pain theory. It's the idea that for every good thing that happens, something bad has to happen. So. So, like it's evening out the scales. So I hit a million followers. And that very same day, as I was enjoying my little McDade's Cola with some Brazil nut toffee, my tooth broke a molar. So word to the wise, make sure you get your checkup with your dentist, you know, especially the neurodivergent people who keep on forgetting to schedule that appointment. So, yeah, oh, if you haven't voted on tour, tour stuff. Because more tour news come in soon. If you haven't voted on that, get on that, let me come and see you. And yes, if you do notice that I sound a bit different. Yeah, it is because the. It's the tooth. It's the tooth. I'm on a cancellation list with my dentist. It's all good, but it's making it hard to speak. And I've noticed that I've been like buggering up a bunch of words, but everything shall be well. But yes, back to the tour. Back to the tour. And so I, I love you lovely denizens of, of the Internet, but of the Internet of the world, I should say. But when you're recommending places to me, please stop trying to send me to like 3000 seat theaters and, you know, 1700 seat concert halls. Like, I love you and I, I know that you enjoy this, but I feel like we should maybe lower our expectations ever so slightly. Like, like, I'm trying to focus on independent and minority owned especially, like, if I can't get that, I'll move on to the next one just because, listen, everything that's going on over in the States right now, I'm specifically talking about the U.S. right? You have lost so much tourism and so much everything in the places that are going to be hit worst first is always going to be the small independent local places. And so that's where I'm trying to, trying to push, push my business there. Now here's the thing about Europe. In Europe, everybody's happy to, to, to Tell you about a room above a pub that's available. It's great. You know what? And I love. I love that about here. But, yes, I hope to get this tour, like, fully locked in and sorted with y'.
- [05:36]
Kal Penn
All.
- [05:37]
Katy Charlwood
But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, quit your jibber jabber. In fact, me. In fact, you will.
- [05:43]
Kal Penn
Will.
- [05:43]
Katy Charlwood
But first, we've got to get our source on. Our sources are. Hamilton the Musical. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It's a bop, but I'm absolutely joking. So our sources are Duel, Alexander Hamilton, Aaron Barr and the Future of America by Thomas Fleming. Aaron Burr, A Biography by Nathan Schachner, the Burr Conspiracy, Uncovering the Story of an Early American Crisis by James E. Lewis, the Life of Aaron Burr by Nancy Eisenberg, the Life and Times of Aaron Burr by James Patton and the Heartbreak of Aaron Burr by HW Brands. Are you sitting comfortably?
- [06:37]
Sephora Hair Care Promoter
Good.
- [06:38]
Katy Charlwood
Then let's begin. Now, some of you may know Aaron Bar, sir. Sorry, I actually. I actually really wanted to do this as a live show specifically because I just thought it'd be really funny that whenever we talked about Aaron Barr, I would get the audience to respond with, sir. Aaron Bar, sir. Listen, listen. I amuse myself if nobody else. So some of you may know Aaron Burr, sir, as the man who lost a popularity contest to Thomas Jefferson and who shot a guy. But of course, there is much more to this story. Aaron Burr was born on the 6th of February, 1756 in Newark, New Jersey, to Esther Edwards, a diarist, and Aaron Burr senior, a Presbyterian minister and the second president of the College of New Jersey, which some of you may know now as Princeton University. Esther's father was a theologian, so they were of educated stock and they weren't, like, poor, you know what I mean? Like. And this is all in the province of New Jersey in the Thirteen Colonies. Aaron Bart Jr. As he was known then, was the second child born to the couple. His older sister, Sarah, was known as Sally, because that's what they did back then. That is a very, very common way to make a nickname. Let's have it. Have the exact same amount of syllables, like, it's fine. And letters. Yeah, that's. That's how nicknames work. Now, it wasn't all sunshine and roses for Baby Bar, because when he was but a year old, his father, Aaron Barsenha, passed away from exhaustion and fever. His maternal grandfather, Jonathan Edwards, came to take over his father's role in the college. But then he had complications from his smallpox vaccine and died in March 1758. Then 16 days later, Esther Burr's mother dies from a short illness with fever and delirium. So he's 2, and he's lost already his father, his mother, and his maternal grandfather. So enter Sarah Edwards, Burr's maternal grandmother. And she decides she's coming down to collect the children and to take them back to Philadelphia with her. And so she does. She collects them, they head back to Philly, and they are there for a few months. And then Sarah dies in October of dysentery. I mean, what is this, the Oregon Trail? All roads lead to dysentery. So Sally and Aaron were already orphaned, but now it's like double orphaned at the ages of like three and two, respectively. But they are not Oliver twisted out to an orphanage. Luckily, they go under the care of the Sheppen family in Philadelphia. Now, Philadelphia, to slip into some context, was at this point, the nation's capital. And William Shippen was a trustee for the College of New Jersey. So he. He knew the family, but the birth children were only under his care until the following year. And that's when their uncle, Timothy Edwards came of age and was able to legally claim guardianship of them. He was 21 years old. Now he just starts collecting children, like jubjubs, right? So he. He has these two kids, right? And then he has, like, other kids of siblings who have died, and he just has just this cohort of children, which is great for a 21 year old who knows absolutely nothing about children. Now, he does ensure that Aaron is well educated. He brings in tutors. And the goal would be that, you know, until he gets educated enough to go to Princeton or what would become Princeton.
- [10:37]
Narrator or Podcast Host
Shh.
- [10:37]
Katy Charlwood
It's fine. Basically it's to get him educated until he reaches the college itself. But Aaron Barr doesn't have the best of childhoods. And you're thinking, we know that. Oh, no. Yeah, give it time. So basically, when he's four, he's like, so done with his uncle's just beatings more than anything else, because this is a time of corporal punishment. And so he runs away. And he runs away and then he's brought back, okay. And then he does this again when he's like 8 years old, he runs away. And then he is like, he's gonna go work on a ship at 8 or like 10. He's still really, really young. They're like, you're gonna go work on a ship and be away and escape like his very strict, very tense uncle. Now, each time he's brought back. And when he's 11, right, bird jumps the gun a little bit, mainly because I think he just wants to get the heck out of Dodge, right? And he tries to attend the College of New Jersey at just 11 years old. And luckily the college is like, no, you are an actual child, please go eat your greens and get some maturity and then come back. So he decides that as soon as he is a teenager, he's going to reapply because that's how that works. And you know what? The college agrees. So at 13, he attends the college as a sophomore and he joins the American Wig Society and the Cleosophic Society, the college's literary and debating societies. This will put him in good stead later. So in 1772, at the age of 16, he received his Bachelor of Arts degree but continued studying theology because of course he did for another year. And he was training with Joseph Bellamy, a Presbyterian. But after two years of this, he wasn't really feeling it anymore and decided he was going to go do law instead. So the college, like education back then, it isn't the way that we would have it now. So like in the America now in the US you would have sort of elementary school, middle school and then high school and then you'd have your college after that. Now over in Europe we tend to do it differently. You have your sort of primary school, which is like your elementary level, then you're there until you're like 12, 13, and then you move on to secondary school, which is your high school. And then of course you have your college and university after that. Now that is that. And so yeah, he goes to this. So the schooling would have been different back then. You just kind of went younger and you just kind of stayed. Anyway, it's fine. But anyway, he has decided he's going to do law. He gets the heck out of Dodge and moves to Connecticut where he attends Litchfield Law School to study law with his brother in law Tapping Reeves husband to his sister Sally. Okay, so here's the thing. Aaron Barr. It feels like he doesn't have a direction of his own, in my personal opinion. Right, because he's wanting to go into like theology, he wants to study religion because like dad's a minister, you know, grandfather's theologian, you know, Timothy probably nothing to do with Jimothy by the way. Timothy's probably into some of that stuff too. And so he's doing that and then he's like, no. And then his brother in law happened to be doing law and he's like, you know what, that's what I want to do. So he's found that a law school has tapping Reeves and Burr just keeps to be following in someone else's footsteps. But again, that is just my opinion. By 1775, news reached Lichfield of the clashes with British troops in the Battle of Lexington and Concord. And this, these battles which launched the American Revolutionary War or the War of Independence, depending on how you want to read that now. So Barr, he puts his studies on hold so he could enlist in the Continental army. And Barr decides he's gonna be a soldier. So Barr joined the Continental army serving under his buddy Benedict Arnold, who is like the Brutus of the American War of Independence, but with remarkably less stabbing somehow. Now, I say he joins the Continental Army. They basically take on volunteers. You are volunteering in the army now, Bar, he does well in the army. Some might even go as far as to say that he thrives. So bar, he volunteers himself for Cardinal Benedict Arnold's expedition to Quebec. Like, Quebec is not the place it is now. It was basically of wilderness, some might say now. And it is a 300 to 350 mile trek, all in all, right, from where he's at. And the goal is to invade Canada. It's. Well, sorry, it's a wild concept to me. But anyway, this expedition, you're going to be surprised, it does not go well, right? In general, I mean, it goes great for Burr, just not for him. So basically he's been told that he has to deliver a message to General Montgomery. Now this General Richard Montgomery, he had taken Montreal, so he is the big dog. And Burr has to pass a message on to him. And so he has to get behind enemy lines and he does so by Hannah Montana ing it and dressing like a priest, right? So a Catholic priest. So he's a Presbyterian lawyer or a Presbyterian law student, I should say, disguised as a Catholic priest. And like, it's, it's. Oh, like he's like, yeah, super into Mary. Oh, love, love the Mary and the statues. Beg into the statues. Love our statues there, don't we? And Mary now say three Hail Marys in an act of contrision and you'll be fine as he passes through. Now, because of his education, right, because his upbringing and his education and all that, like, he actually does quite well here. He finds a pathway into the inner circle. And Montgomery as well is so impressed with Bart that he promotes him to captain and as his aide de camp. So he's basically like his like we assistant, is he, buddy, he's like we best guy. You know what I mean? So the Battle of Quebec, one thing leads to another and it's an absolute shit show, right? And Montgomery dies. Now Burr, he does try to recover the body but he's under enemy fire, he's in the snow and also Montgomery's dead weight. And I mean that literally because between that and the harsh weather conditions and you know, the bullets, it just wasn't happening. But it is noted that he tried to do it as a weebler aware he tried to do it. And so this, right, right, this established him as a hero here. And this is also where like he gets a bit disillusioned because after what he went through, after going through all of this and this again absolute shit show of trying to invade Quebec, right? He just comes to this conclusion that Congress is basically inept at military planning. And he, he writes, he writes that they are either drunk or crazy and also like he's serving under Benedict Arnold and he is just sick of his shit and so he wants out of that. And people are saying good things about Barr and his relative and bestie Matthias Ogden gets him a gig with George Washington in Manhattan as a member of his staff. Now Bart isn't happy with his position, doesn't want to be a member of this because he's like surrounded by lots of like backstabbing and back talking and all this other bollocks. And he's not there for that. And so he quits again to be a soldier. And so John Hancock, he recommends Bart to General Israel Putnam. And Putnam takes a shining to Burr and makes him his aide de camp. And so he's actually gained in this bit. He's like, he's showing that he's, you know, trustworthy, he's responsible, he's reasonable at least you know, to these generals. And that's going all fine and well. And then the British land and Manhattan.
- [20:20]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com upfront payment of
- [20:42]
Klarna Advertiser
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- [20:50]
Kal Penn
See terms hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week I'm sitting down with author Matt Dinnaman and narrator Jeff Ayes to talk about dungeon crawler Carl. Matt had one line in a notebook from middle school alien game show. It took him until 2019 to finally write it, but what came out was an out of this world audiobook phenomenon. We talked about that origin talking cat with a charisma stat that breaks the game and what it takes to voice an entire world.
- [21:27]
Narrator or Podcast Host
Fiction is bull, so you gotta trick me into caring about what you're talking about. And that's always what I have thought of as my job. So as a narrator, I always want to keep you engaged by making you feel as if I care as a narrator. And when I do dialogue, I don't want to tell you what the characters are saying I want you to hear firsthand.
- [21:53]
Kal Penn
Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:05]
Charity Lawson
This is Charity Lawson from Bachelor Happy Hour.
- [22:08]
Klarna Advertiser
Charity, I was thinking about this the other day. What's something that you'll always say yes to?
- [22:13]
Charity Lawson
That's easy. Seeing my friends last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.
- [22:19]
Klarna Advertiser
Same. And somehow every one of these memories comes with something to plan.
- [22:23]
Charity Lawson
That's so true.
- [22:24]
Klarna Advertiser
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Charity Lawson
Exactly. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place, Klarna helps you feel more confident making everyday money decisions.
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Klarna Advertiser
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Charity Lawson
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- [22:47]
Klarna Advertiser
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- [22:59]
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- [24:02]
Katy Charlwood
British forces landed in Manhattan and so the American forces, the Continental army, they have to retreat. Part of that is because Washington isn't great at the old decision making. Like, it's almost as if he's so worried about rushing into a decision that he's becoming too hesitant. Now this may shock you all, but Aaron Burr, pretty good at running away. Effectively, he designs the best route out of the city and he guides about what, 5,000 people to safety, during which he also salvages artillery, which is needed because you can't win a war without buckets and buckets of bullets. Now from this he gets promoted to lieutenant colonel and he's in charge of 300 men. Basically, when you become a lieutenant colonel, they just kind of give you 300 men. Well, I say that that's not true. That's wrong. No. There's another dude, he's in charge, but he's like never there. And so Bart just ends up in charge of this like 300 group of men. And he's strict, but he's smart. You know, he's fighting off British raids into New Jersey. There's this horrible winter in 1777 and he defends the pass at Valley Forge. Now he fights in the Battle of Monmouth, but it is a shit show. He's defeated. His horse gets shot out from under him and. And he gets severe heat stroke. He tries to get medical leave like without pay, but Washington denies him. And instead he is sent to West Point to oversee disciplinary measures. And he despises it. Like he is not about this whatsoever. Cuz like the trips are being disrespectful. Cuz like they, they called him like Aaron Barr's son or like young Bar because he was so young. And they're just like, where's the actual general? Look at this young fella. So like he's young and all the generals that could have boosted his military career, they're basically now either out of the army or dead, right? And so he sees that the officers are getting soldiers to steal food from civilians. And so he makes his men return the ship that they stole, which. Fairly good, right? Now, one of my favorite stories, I can't remember if it's like, here or before. I didn't write it down in this, in this one. But basically there's this plot to assassinate Barr. And so in order to, like avoid this, well, he actually gets wind of this, right? And so he actually gets, you know, his soldiers to like remove like the bullets from the guns. Like, he's just like, no, we're not doing this. And so he prevents himself from being shot. It was weird. But anyway, so on top of this, Bert is a ladies man, but he's also very aware that the wrong word from him could ruin a reputation. So he keeps stumming. So this is actually very clever because, I mean, he could just be very respectful or I say respectful, or he could be, you know, knowing that ladies talk and if he's known for, you know, ruining one woman, he could ruin another. And what's that? That's not good on his end, you know. So in like 1777, 78, he meets Theodosia Barto, Provost, at her home. Now, he meets her at her home because her home is being used as Washington's headquarters. Now, Theodosia, she is married to a British officer and she's also 10 years Barr's senior. She's 32, he's 22. Theodosia has five kids with her enemy husband, who is presumably out fighting somewhere. Now, she's actually pretty cool and she's not seen as a looker posse. She's got a facial scar, which everyone feels the need to point out, but she's bright and witty and her and Barley got on like a house on fire. Now, they start off as friends because, reasonably, that's how that works. And he's visiting a lot and eventually they're pretty open about being together and no one cares about her husband because they're like him, he's British. I mean, listen, he's a Swiss born British officer, but he made his choice. So they're very openly together. So it's like, here's my boyfriend, Aaron Barr. And people are very aware those two are together, and yet reputation unscathed. So I say, unscathed me. Barr's health isn't great after the heatstroke and the probable PTSD from all of the war trauma. So he resigns from the army and decides to go back into the law thing. So he's studying up, he's getting to grips with the law again. And then Theodosia's husband dies of yellow fever in Jamaica in 1781. So she, for propriety's sake, has to go through at least some official mourning before she can remarry. And also she wants him to actually have a profession so they can wed, which is fair because she's like, I must wait till I'm more sensible. Now there's always the possibility that, like, even though she didn't really care for her husband much, that she was still grieving in some kind of way. Because grief is weird and it's not linear, it's kind of wobbly. So hard. Needing some time seems really reasonable. Also, she would have to go through some official mourning. But, like, mourning is supposed to last like a long time. It's supposed to be like a year, sometimes six months, sometimes, you know, half mourning. But she can go through like a little bit of it because, you know, husband was British and she's American now, so huzzah. So he decides to give himself wee refresh on the law and ends up passing the bar in 1782, after which Aaron Burr and Theodosia get married. Their daughter, also called Theodosia, is born the following year, the only child of the couple to survive into adulthood. So he makes sure that Theodosia Jr gets a good education, like that of a boy. Also, he's really good to his step kids. Like, they all really like him. And he seems to be a pretty good dad, father figure and all. And his law practice really takes off and everything is turning up Milhouse. Then in 1784 and 1785, he's elected to the state assembly, which he wasn't that fond of doing. Then in 1789, he's appointed attorney General. It's interesting because, like, he's really progressive for the time. He's for women having the vote. He's wanting to free all black enslaved people in New York, which progressive. But on the flip side of that coin, he did also own enslaved people. How he educated, he made sure they were educated too. But also, though still enslaved, you know. You know, so he's been toiling away and by 1791, he's got a pretty successful political campaign against Alexander Hamilton's father in law, Philip Schuyler, going right. Hamilton takes this as a personal insult, right? And that's because, you know, bar takes a seat. So they've been beefing for a while because Hamilton lost to him in court a bunch. And also because Hamilton is a Federalist and Barr is kind of more into democracy. As a whole, there's, there's a whole thing between the two of them. And as much as the musical might wouldn't make you think that Alexander Hamilton is in any way progressive, um, he's like a terrible person. You know what? I'm gonna have to do like a three part series. I think if I'm ever gonna have to do Alexander Hamilton, like the Reynolds pamphlet alone is gonna take up time. But anyway, in 1794, Theodosia passes away from cancer. Now there are some dispute as to whether this is stomach or uterine cancer, but she dies in 1796. Barr runs for president and loses. It's the Adams administration. And when it rains it polls like bad things coming through. So he loses the election, he doesn't get re elected to the Senate and he loses to Philip schuyler. So by 1800 he's running again. Like initially the parties are like, let's run as teams. So on the same ticket you've got, you know, Adams is running with Charles Coatsworth, they're Federalists. And then you've got Thomas Jefferson who's running with Aaron Barr as the Democratic Republicans. Now there's no popular vote. State legislators appoint electors and so they make the vote. So Jefferson and boss sweep most of the south and Adams is doing well in like the Northeast. Basically the Federalists didn't want a tie and so they got Rhode island to vote for John Jay to give Adams a lead vote over Coatsworth. So that basically the plan was Adams would be the president and then Charles Coatsworth would be the vice president. I forgot the word for vice president there. I was like, second man, he's the president and he's the second man. So John Adams and Charles Cosworth. So now with the Democratic Republicans, they just voted for like Baron Jefferson. So they had the same number of electrical votes, electoral votes, not electrical votes, that's a different thing. And so the House of Representatives had the tie. Now Bum maintained that he wasn't going to challenge Jefferson and the House was Federalist. So you've got a Federalist House of Representatives. And Hamilton, a Federalist legit disliked Barr, so he helped push the vote in Jefferson's direction. Now what used to happen is whoever came in second became vice president. Although that did get changed in 1804. So Barr is marginalized by Jefferson. So like once they're in play, he's just like sidelined because Jefferson thinks Barr was being underhand and wanted to steal the presidency for him. So bar's like, well, if I'm off to do Other things. I'm gonna keep myself busy. And he goes and runs the Senate. Now there's this whole thing with the impeachment of a Supreme Court judge, a federalist who was a bit shitty and so he had to go on trial before the Senate and Jefferson wanted him out. And like he goes to Bart and he's like, I want him out. And Bart's like, I hear you. Now this is how not being clear and concise can let people think different things. So when someone says, I hear you, you might think I agree with you. Okay, but what Barr was saying was, I understand what you mean. Not the same thing. No, Bart is an impartial and rigorous. Like I. He's just. What was it? He is like sharp and grueling, but he's so impartial about it that Judge Chase gets off scot free because that isn't like completely 100 enough evidence. And obviously Jefferson is pissed because he told him he wanted this arsehole out. Find a reason, get rid of him. You know? So we're at the point now where the parties don't like him, the President doesn't like him, and Alexander Hamilton is talking shit about him in the papers now. They're taking pot shots back and forth. Like Barr, Hamilton, Jefferson, like all this stuff is going in the papers and people, they'll just, they'll just post them whatever they want, right? Like, like just because they could, there was no one to stop them, right? Like you could defame someone. Didn't mean a damn thing. So n 1800 Bar publishes the Public Conduct and Character of John Adams, Esquire, President of the United States. Now this is not positive, it's not a positive piece of writing and also wasn't written by Aaron Barr. It was written by one Alexander Hamilton. Burr just happened to buy it and publish it. Purchase, publish, Boom. Now this was incredibly embarrassing for Hamilton and this pisses him off to no end. So when in 1804, Bart is running for the New York governor, right? And he has burned some bridges on the way, he's running as an independent as well. And this is freaking Hamilton out. So he tries to convince all of the Federalists to not support Burr in any way. And so this ruins his whole thing. Also sidebar. Not even a sidebar. I've had so few sidebars this episode. It's not even a sidebar because I'm talking about something that happened. So Dr. Charles Cooper, he's having like this dinner party in 1804 and Hamilton's there and he is openly Talking shit about bart. And so Dr. Cooper ends up writing a letter to Philip Schuyler, Hamilton's father in law, about some of the awful things he said. And he's basically talking about just, just gratuitously, gratuitously horrible things about Aaron Burr. And this letter gets published and it's humiliating for Aaron Burr, sir. So he writes to Hamilton demanding satisfaction. Yes, like the song. So they're going back and forth, politely trash talking one another and this leads to Burr going, fuck this for a game of soldiers and challenges Hamilton to a duel for honour. And also because he's sick of the. But dueling is like a legal gray area. And so like, yeah, it kind of can happen, but it's, you know, it's maybe so like for the record as well, Aaron, Bart is still Vice president right now, right? So they travel to New Jersey because apparently you're allowed to duel in New Jersey. So then, not now, I'm fairly certain handbags at dawn. So off they skedaddled and they met in Weehawken on July 11, 1804. True to form, Burr arrives early with William Van Ness as a second, who is a New York federal judge. In New York City, federal Judge Hamilton arrives 30 minutes late with Nate Pendleton, a Georgia district court judge and a war veteran. So how a duel would work, right, was the first person to draw blood would be like, do you yield, sir? And then you'd yield, you'd be like, I yield. Right, and sort of honor would be restored, everything would be evened out. You've, you've done your stuff right now. Which here's the thing though, guns are notoriously known for, you know, causing death. So they did bring a doctor just in case, right? So they brought a doctor for their duel, which they intended to not be to the death, but just to be for the maiming. So Hamilton had preemptively told friends that he was going to deliberately shoot wide and miss Burr, which honestly stupid idea in a duel. And who's to say if that was really his intention or if that was going to be some kind of plausible deniability, right? They do, you know, the many steps. And he shoots Hamilton right in the abdomen. It's like above his hip. It's, it's a bad one. It's not a good place to be shot, you know, in the abdomen. And he knows he's not gonna make it. Like Hamilton is aware that he is gonna die, right? So he's like, get me home. So he is taken back to Manhattan and dies 31 hours later. 12 July 1804 so Burr thought that an honourable duel would help his reputation, but instead everyone is like, he's a murderer. And authorities issue an arrest warrant. But weirdly, no one wants to arrest the vice president, so that doesn't happen and he heads west in 1805.
- [43:24]
Kal Penn
Hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm the host of Irsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone, very far from Earth.
- [43:47]
Ray Porter
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections and it's like, okay, yo yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no. At this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener had have in telling this story if I don't go through it. But there's places in this book that that deeply, emotionally affected me and I left it on the mic. That's great cuz it served the story. People will say like oh my God, I cried at the end. It's like yeah dude, me too.
- [44:19]
Kal Penn
Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Charity Lawson
This is Charity Lawson from Bachelor Happy Hour.
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Charity Lawson
That's easy. Seeing my friends last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.
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Charity Lawson
That's so true.
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- [46:21]
Chelsea Handler
This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. If you travel a lot with your dog like I do with Doug, feeding them well on the road can get surprisingly complicated, especially when you're touring 30 plus cities, staying in hotels, flying, driving and basically living out of a suitcase. Frozen dog food sounds great until you realize you don't exactly have a freezer backstage. That's why I started bringing just fresh from just food for dogs. It's real fresh dog food made with human grade ingredients with meat and vegetables you can see in the bowl. But the difference is it's shelf stable, which means I don't need a freezer or a cooler and there's no prep. So now I can throw a few packs in my bag and Doug still gets a healthy meal wherever we are. Doug absolutely loves it and I like knowing I am feeding my baby something that's actually good for him. It's also the number one vet recommended fresh dog food made without preservatives or fillers. Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50% off your first order.
- [47:20]
Katy Charlwood
After leaving the presidency in 1805, Aaron Bath headed west, traveling through the frontier and down the Ohio river before eventually reaching the newly acquired Louisiana territory. Now when he's there, he leased around 40,000 acres of land from the Spanish government now and he began gathering support for some kind of grand western settlement. Now exactly what he wanted to do with it. Whoms to say? One of the most important people Burr brought into his plans was General James Wilkinson. So he was commander of the U.S. army at New Orleans and governor of the Louisiana Territory he also had the support of Harmon Blennerhassett, who offered up his private island in the Ohio river as a place where Burr could train and equip his followers. Now Buzz seems to have been betting on a war happening between the US and Spain. And if that happened, he could potentially use that chaos to his advantage. So he begins assembling small expeditions, right? He's got one of around 80 men and they were carrying not much really. Little more than like hunting weapons. They didn't have a stockpile of military equipment like and we know this because like the Ohio militia like eventually seized Blennerhasset's island and there like wasn't like a stockpile of any there. Now Barr claimed that his plan was simply to settle the land with a large group of armed farmers and if war broke out they would have a force capable of defending themselves and you know, perhaps taking some territory in the process because like why not? But right, so he's like this is what it was like, no harm, no vow, because what if you go to war? I, I'm just keeping myself safe and keeping these farmers safe and stuff. Now there is another theory and that is the Aaron Barr sir, may have been planning to invade Spanish controlled Mexico and establish an independent government there. There's hint to this, right? No conclusive evidence but those hints. But it's talked about enough that I need to tell you about it, right? So he and Wilkinson like there's hints that he and Wilkinson discussed encouraging the western states and territories to, to secede from the United States and, and with
- [50:09]
Chelsea Handler
them
- [50:11]
Katy Charlwood
joining with them in Mexico to create a new empire modeled on Napoleon's France. So the idea is that Burr had gone from disgraced former vice president to maybe plotting his own little empire, right? But if that's the case, like his big ally was incredibly untrustworthy if that's the case. Cause James Wilkinson was secretly being paid by Spain. And after almost getting into a wee skirmish with Spanish forces at Natchitoches, Wilkinson decided the safest way to protect himself was, was to betray Barr. And so he snitched to both Spanish forces or Spanish, you know, his Spanish contacts and President Thomas Jefferson about Barr's plans, the plans that are totally Burr's and no one else's. So Jefferson, always quick off the mark, issued an order for Burr's arrest and publicly branded him a traitor before he even got indicted. Like so Aaron Bur do you know how he finds out about the warrant? He's reading a newspaper in New Orleans or New Orleans Territory in 18 oh, seven. So now he finds out in January, and he tries to keep ahead of the authorities, like, trying to make his way towards Spanish Florida, but he gets intercepted in Mississippi territory in, like, what is now Alabama. On February 19, 1807, he's arrested and held at Fort Stod on charges of treason. And then there's more, because, of course there is. Aaron Barr had been secretly corresponding with both the British and Spanish ministers in Washington, trying to secure money and conceal what may actually have been his ultimate goal, helping Mexico overthrow Spanish rule in the Southwest. Now, exactly what Bart was planning to do is still mucky, right? If he really was planning to establish his own, like, dynasty in what would later become Mexican territory, it wasn't really the massive crime that Jefferson portrayed it as. Because, like, under the Neutrality act of 1794, launching a private military expedition against a country at peace with the United States was a crime. Yes, but at the time it was a misdemeanor. However, Jefferson wanted bar charge something much more serious. Treason. Which means the Aaron Balsaut's increasingly bizarre Western adventure was about to become one of the most sensational political trials in early American history. His case ends up before Chief Justice John Marshall, who was sitting as a federal circuit judge in Virginia. Now, at the time, circuit courts, not the Supreme Court, had the power to hear treason trials. And Marshall was about to make things very awkward for the government because he rules that under the Constitution, treason required an actual act of war against the United States. Now, Iron Barr may have been scheming, plotting, and being tote suspish, but the government couldn't actually prove that he had committed an act of treason. And so Chief Justice John Marshall acquitted him. So the trial itself had become embarrassing for the prosecution because one of the government's key pieces of evidence was a letter supposedly written by Burr, and it was produced by his ally, enemy, his frenemy, if you will, General James Wilkinson. The issue of this letter, you may be wondering, is that, as it turned out, the letter wasn't actually in Buzz's handwriting. It was in Wilkinson's. James Wilkinson admitted that he had copied the original because he claimed to have conveniently lost it. My, what a crazy, random happenstance. Shockingly enough, the jury was not impressed with this, and Wilkinson becomes the laughingstock of the courtroom. And so Chief Justice John Marshall, like he, he sticks firmly to this right. Article 3 requires that treason either be confessed in open court or proved by an overt act witnessed by two people. And no witnesses could place Barr committing an act of treason. So, yeah, 9-1-1807, the jury found him not guilty, but the government was not done yet. He was immediately tried on a lesser misdemeanor charge, but once again he was acquitted.
- [56:02]
Just Food for Dogs Promoter
Right.
- [56:03]
Katy Charlwood
This case became like a defining test of the separation of the powers in young United States.
- [56:11]
Sephora Hair Care Promoter
Right?
- [56:13]
Katy Charlwood
Like President Jefferson was personally convinced that Aaron Barr, sir, was guilty and used every ounce of political influence he could to secure a conviction. However, their judge refused to bend to presidential pressure. Now, whenever he thought of Barr personally, whom's to say? But the evidence didn't meet the constitutional standard. And like even now historians are like at, you know, they're, they're at loggerheads, like figuring out what Bob was actually planning to do. Now whether whether Barr was like a fantasist or an opportunist or some kind of aspiring emperor, him, hims to say, and he walks free. But again, reputation puckered up, his political career over. And also he's spent so much money his reputation's in ruins, his creditors are closing in. And so Barr leaves the United States in 1808 and spends the next four years in self imposed exile across Europe, mainly living in London, but he travels to Scotland, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, France. He even tried to revive his dream of conquering Mexico, seeking financial backing. But like, nobody was interested. Napoleon wouldn't even agree to meet him.
- [57:50]
Klarna Advertiser
Right.
- [57:51]
Katy Charlwood
And eventually Burr had little choice but to return home. Back in New York in 1812, Burr resumes practicing law quietly, sometimes using his mother's maiden name, Edwards to dodge creditors. But he never returns to national politics. In 1833, at the age of 77, he married one of the wealthiest women in New York, Elizabeth Brown Jumel. It looked briefly that his fortunes may have finally turned around. They had not. Within a year, Barr had managed to flutter away much of her wealth and Elizabeth filed for divorce accusing him of adultery. And the marriage collapsed almost as quickly as it began. And like, he's in his 70s, like, bar sir, what are you at? Like also adultery. He's 77. Who is Chase? Who, who is he committing adultery with? Who wants a 77 year old man in the 1800s? Like old men are weird now. Like, and we all know everyone looked really old like in the past. So like what? He's what? No. What? No. Anyway, after suffering two strokes, as in he had a stroke and then he had another stroke, he's not, you know, get your head at the gutter. After suffering two strokes, Aaron Bard died in a boarding house in Port Richmond in Staten Island. He died on 14 September 1836 at 80 years old and any final piece of just amazing timing. It was the very same day his divorce from Elizabeth was officially finalized. He was also, like, hugely in debt. Spent much of his later life, like, struggling financially. And the boarding house where he died ended up being renamed the St. James Hotel. Burr was buried in Princeton, New Jersey, near the grave of his father. And so ends the life of Aaron Burr, a former vice president, political schema, alleged traitor, possible would be emperor, and the man who killed Alexander Hamilton in a Jew. And so ends the story of Aaron Bar, sir. So that's the story of Aaron Bar, sir. I'm like, listen, as some of you are going to be, well annoyed. You're going to be like, she did the Aaron Bar, sir. Like, if you didn't do it along with me, that's your fault. You have no whimsy. Okay? So I wanted to do this because it's going to get. It's going to get dark because we're talking about World War II. And actually I'm probably going to say this at the beginning of the next episode, but I'm going to say it now at the end. So if you've stayed this far, wonderful. I made a Nazi Concentration camp series last year and this year, like, literally today, it got. One of my episodes got removed. The one on Operation Reinhard, which is the final solution, right? And it was removed for, quote, glorifying, like, hate things. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm literally providing factual information about a horrible thing that happened. And I state clearly that it's terrible what is going on. And I'm like, it's removed and I can't challenge it through meta. I can challenge it in court, which is. Which is wild. I mean, I can't believe, like, that's my solution to this. And it's like, I can't challenge it in any way on. On it. And it's like, what is going on here? Because he's like, oh, between computers and people. I'm like, great, let me talk to the people, please. But anyway, that's actually made it very concerning for me. Regarding the next month is meant to be all about World War II, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to talk about it without stuff being removed. So that is concerning to me. So I'll definitely be posting more on Patreon and more on YouTube just because that might be my only option. But anyway, let's get back to less terrible things. And it's recommendation time for watching Widows Bay. Now. That was a swell show. It's like. It's kind of like a supernatural Jaws, but from the mayor's perspective, it'll make sense when you watch it, right? For listening, I'm currently quite into Royal Swindle and for reading Thou Savage Women by Blessing Adams. So enjoy, listen, and I shall see you next time. Adios. Au revoir. Au revoir, my friends. Bye bye.
- [63:14]
Kal Penn
Hey everyone, it's Kal Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [63:44]
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