11/22/63

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Who Killed JFK?" Episode: 11/22/63

Introduction

In the December 27, 2023 release of "Who Killed JFK?" hosted by Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien, the 60th anniversary of President John F. Kennedy's assassination serves as a catalyst to delve deep into the intricacies of America's most enduring murder mystery. This episode meticulously examines the events surrounding the tragic day of November 22, 1963, in Dallas, Texas, presenting new evidence and challenging established narratives.

Setting the Scene: The Day of the Assassination

Rob Reiner begins by painting a vivid picture of the morning of November 21, 1963, setting the stage for the following day's events.

• Rob Reiner [00:00]: "It's Thursday, November 21, 1963. Lee Harvey Oswald is visiting his wife Marina..."

As Reiner narrates, the stationing of Oswald at the Texas School Book Depository is highlighted, emphasizing his seemingly unremarkable routine leading up to the assassination.

Kennedy's Arrival in Dallas

The episode transitions to President Kennedy's arrival in Dallas, capturing the optimism and public adoration that filled the air.

• Rob Reiner [07:04]: "At this point in our investigation, we've established that there were more than three shots fired at Kennedy..."

Despite the cheerful demeanor, underlying tensions are introduced, notably a critical advertisement in the Dallas Morning News that labeled Kennedy as "soft on communism," potentially fueling motives for his assassination.

Eyewitness Accounts and Conflicting Testimonies

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the timeline and eyewitness testimonies that have fueled debates about Oswald's presence and actions during the assassination.

• Witness [05:06]: "That morning was unusual... but that morning was different."

The narrative scrutinizes the package Oswald was carrying, questioning its contents and relevance to the assassination.

• Rob Reiner [06:33]: "This was the type of rifle Oswald allegedly used to kill Kennedy."

Challenging the Lone Gunman Theory

Soledad O'Brien and Rob Reiner collaboratively dissect the plausibility of Oswald acting alone, presenting evidence that suggests potential conspiracies involving the CIA, anti-Castro Cuban exiles, and organized crime.

• Soledad O'Brien [03:19]: "This is who killed JFK. 60 years later, what can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history?"

The episode critically examines the timeline of Oswald's movements post-assassination, raising doubts about his ability to execute the shooting single-handedly within the constrained timeframe.

• Buell Frazier [12:04]: "He would have had to have been in the lunchroom at 12:25, run up the stairs to the sniper's nest, got his rifle into position, fired three shots with incredible accuracy..."

Victoria Adams' Testimony: A Puzzling Absence

The disappearance of Victoria Adams, a witness on the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, adds another layer of mystery.

• Rob Reiner [14:14]: "Victoria Adams... some very powerful evidence emerged."

Her account suggests that Oswald might not have been present at the sniper's perch, further complicating the lone gunman narrative.

The Pursuit and Capture of Lee Harvey Oswald

As chaos ensues in Dealey Plaza, the episode details Oswald's frantic movements in the aftermath of the assassination, highlighting inconsistencies and suspicious behaviors.

• Rob Reiner [23:04]: "If you were Oswald and you just shot the President... where would you sit?"

Oswald's actions, including his unconventional behavior at the Texas Theater, are scrutinized to question his innocence or lack thereof.

The Tippit Murder and Its Implications

The killing of Officer J.D. Tippit shortly after the assassination is examined, with Reiner pointing out conflicting eyewitness accounts and the uncertainty surrounding the perpetrator.

• Rob Reiner [21:29]: "It's never been definitely proven who did it?"

This segment underscores the broader ambiguities and unresolved questions that continue to shroud the JFK assassination.

Looking Ahead: The Jack Ruby Connection

The episode concludes by teasing the exploration of Jack Ruby's role in Oswald's demise in the next installment, hinting at deeper conspiracies and hidden connections.

• Rob Reiner [26:03]: "In the next episode, we'll give that thread another tug and reveal who sent Ruby to take care of Oswald."

Notable Quotes

• Soledad O'Brien [03:04]: "So what was it?"

• Rob Reiner [09:07]: "I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening."

• Soledad O'Brien [07:04]: "This is who killed JFK. 60 years later, what can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history?"

• Buell Frazier [25:01]: "He's obviously concerned or suspicious, trying to hide his tracks, make sure he isn't being followed."

Conclusion

This episode of "Who Killed JFK?" expertly navigates the complex web of evidence, testimonies, and theories surrounding President Kennedy's assassination. By questioning the established lone gunman narrative and introducing new evidence and perspectives, Rob Reiner and Soledad O'Brien invite listeners to reconsider long-held beliefs and remain engaged in uncovering the truth behind one of America's most perplexing historical events.

Stay Tuned

Listeners are encouraged to tune into the next episode, which promises to delve deeper into Jack Ruby's involvement and the broader conspiratorial ties that may have influenced the events of November 22, 1963.

Connect with the Podcast

For more insights and detailed explorations into America's greatest mysteries, subscribe to "Who Killed JFK?" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Rob Reiner]

To have a murder as gruesome as Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death, her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

They've never found a weapon, never made sense. Still doesn't make sense. She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Soledad O'Brien]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or where you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me Danny Trehov and Step into the Flames of Fright, an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnum on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

It's Thursday, November 21, 1963. Lee Harvey Oswald is visiting his wife Marina, who is living with Ruth Payne in Irving, Texas. He and Marina were separated and he had taken a room in a boarding house not far from his job at the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas. He would normally visit Marina in June on the weekends, but this is a Thursday and it's unexpected. President Kennedy and the first lady will arrive in Dallas the next day. Before his arrival, the President became aware of a full page ad in the Dallas Morning News, an ad paid for by right wing extremists which accused him of being soft on communism and essentially calling him a traitor. Kennedy mused out loud about how easy it would be to assassinate a traveling president. Air Force One lands at Love Field in Dallas to adoring crowds. As the President shakes hands, Jackie is handed a dozen roses. It had been raining earlier, but now the clouds have parted and the golden couple is bathed in sunlight. Camelot has arrived in Dallas.

[Soledad O'Brien]

This is who killed JFK. 60 years later, what can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? And why does it still matter today I'm your host, Soledad O'Brien.

[Rob Reiner]

At this point in our investigation, we've established that there were more than three shots fired at Kennedy and not all from behind. We've presented evidence that Oswald, the alleged lone shooter, had a connection to the CIA and was likely unknowingly being set up for a plan that would motivate an invasion of Cuba. We've also established who had both the motive and the means to carry out the crime. Rogue elements of the CIA, anti Castro Cuban exiles and members of organized crime. And there's evidence that notable leaders from each of these groups was in Dallas that day.

[Buell Frazier]

A member of the President's security team later told researcher Vince Palomarra, we were getting all sorts of rumors that the President was going to be assassinated in Dallas. He then shares these threats with Kennedy.

[Soledad O'Brien]

That morning, Kennedy says back to him, quote, marty, you worry about me too much. The Secret Service told me they have everything taken care of. There's nothing to worry about. Okay, let's talk specifically about what happened on that day.

[Rob Reiner]

Oswald wakes up not knowing exactly what he's part of. But he knows that he's part of something important. Marina is sleeping. Before saying goodbye to her, he takes off his wedding ring and places it in a cup on her bedside table. He whispers to Marina that there's money in the dresser. $170. A sizable sum for the Oswalds. Marina goes back to sleep. Oswald exits the house and meets Buell Frazier, his co worker at the Texas School Book Depository. Fraser would often give Oswald a ride to work.

[Witness]

That morning was unusual. Most of the times I would pick Lee up walking down the sidewalk toward my sister's home, or I'd have to pull up in front of the house and blow on the horn. But that morning was different.

[Soledad O'Brien]

That's Buell Frazier. He was 19 at the time. And we interviewed him in 20, 23, 60 years after that fateful morning. He remembers it like it was yesterday.

[Witness]

He walked down the half a block across the street and with him he had a package. So he goes over to my car and he puts a package in on the back seat on the passenger side. And so I said, what's in the package, Lee? And he says, don't you remember we talked about this yesterday? I'm going to bring some curtain rods to work. And I said, that's right. You did tell me that.

[Rob Reiner]

Now, the package that Frazier mentions has become something of a fascination for JFK researchers.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Is the package the gun?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, I asked Frazier about that. Nobody ever has determined what exactly. Was in that package. Have they?

[Witness]

To my knowledge, that is correct. They have not. What I would like to tell you was I have a friend called Josiah Thompson. Josiah has a Italian Concarno rifle.

[Rob Reiner]

This was the type of rifle Oswald allegedly used to kill Kennedy.

[Witness]

I said, can we measure this rifle? He said, absolutely. So we measured the rifle, we measured the stock and we measured the barrel. There's no way that it would fit in the package that was on the back seat of my car.

[Rob Reiner]

Right.

[Witness]

And so that really made me feel good because a lot of people have said I haven't told the truth about that. Well, I've told you all I know.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So what was it?

[Rob Reiner]

Nobody knows for sure. All we know is that Oswald had a bag that according to Buell, Frazier wasn't big enough to hold even a broken down Carcano rifle.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Okay, what happens next?

[Witness]

So we get into, we start to drive off. When we get to the parking lot, he gets the package out of the backseat and so he turns around and starts walking toward the building where we would be working.

[Rob Reiner]

During the course of the day, did you see Oswald at all?

[Witness]

I did run into him. I know he went up to the fifth and sixth floor.

[Rob Reiner]

You saw Lee on the fifth and sixth floor at some point?

[Witness]

Yeah. It was on Friday and it had been a hard week. It's just a normal routine.

[Rob Reiner]

Nothing about that day would be normal. Let's jump ahead a few hours to 11:37am Air Force One lands at Dallas Love Field. The Kennedys arrive to an adoring crowd.

[Witness]

And here is the President of the United States. And the crowd is absolutely going wild.

[Rob Reiner]

They get into the open limousine and they sit right behind Governor Connally and his wife Nellie. The Secret Service car is directly behind them, followed by Vice President Lyndon Johnson and Lady Bird. They start their 10 mile ride through the streets of Dallas with onlookers cheering along the way. Nelly Connolly turns back and says, you can't tell me that the people of Dallas don't love you, Mr. President. And he says, yeah, yeah, they do. Everybody was happy until they turned off Houston street and onto Elm Street. To have a murder as gruesome as Jake Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

This case, the more I learned about it, the more I'm scratching my head. Something's not right.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

I'm Lauren Bright. Pacheco Murder On Songbird Road dives into the conviction of a mother of four who remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there.

[Rob Reiner]

I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you step sleep that many times, you have blood splatter, where's the change of clothes? She found out she was pregnant in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Nobody has gotten justice yet and that's what I wish people would understand.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The the Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show. Here's edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

It's now 12:25pm this is the time that the motorcade was scheduled to pass through Dealey Plaza. According to the Warren Report, when Oswald was asked by the Dallas Police Department where he was when the President was shot, he said, quote, went to the second floor where the Coca Cola machine was located, obtained a bottle of Coca Cola for lunch.

[Buell Frazier]

Two witnesses also place him there. They say they saw Oswald in or near the second floor lunchroom around the time of the shootings. One witness is a woman named Carolyn Arnold, a secretary at the Texas School Book Depository.

[Rob Reiner]

She said that she was on her way out of the building around 12:25 when she saw Oswald in the lunchroom.

[Buell Frazier]

She said, quote, he was alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch. I do not recall that he was doing anything. I just recall that he was sitting there in one of the booth seats on the right hand side of the room as you go in.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Okay, Oswald said he was eating lunch, went to the second floor. There are two witnesses that place him there all around 12:25 when the motorcade passes by. That seems pretty solid to me, except.

[Rob Reiner]

For the fact that the motorcade was running five minutes late. It didn't arrive at Dealey Plaza until 12:30.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So if it was Oswald who fired the gun, couldn't he have been on the second floor at 12:25 and then run up to the sixth floor by 12:30.

[Rob Reiner]

Okay, let's go with that for a moment. A man is planning to assassinate the President of the United States who is supposed to be arriving at 12:25. Now wouldn't he already be in position at that point? I mean, not casually sitting in a second floor lunchroom drinking a Coke?

[Buell Frazier]

Marion Baker is a Dallas police officer who was riding a motorcycle in the motorcade that just entered Dealey Plaza when the shots rang out. He said he saw pigeons fly off the roof of the Texas Schoolbook Depository. And without hesitation, he hopped off his bike and ran into the building. Video shows him entering within 15 seconds of the shooting.

[Rob Reiner]

He immediately runs into Roy Truly, the manager of the building. And Truly and Baker start up the stairs.

[Buell Frazier]

They reach the second floor lunchroom at 12:32pm Baker confirmed it was 90 seconds after the shots were fired.

[Rob Reiner]

And guess who they see sitting in the lunchroom? Oswald with a Coke in his hand. Trulli tells Baker that Oswald works in the building, so they continue past him. This is 90 seconds after the shooting.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Couldn't Oswald have fired three shots, then sprinted down to the second floor within 90 seconds where he runs into Baker?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, the Warren Commission had the same question. So they reenacted the time it would take Oswald to go from the sixth floor sniper nest down to the second floor and they timed that at around 75 seconds.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So tight, but definitely plausible.

[Rob Reiner]

Sure, if you don't allot any time for Oswald to wipe down the gun, which he had to have done because none of his fingerprints were found on the gun. It also doesn't include the time it would take Oswalt to hide the gun behind some boxes, which is how it was found.

[Buell Frazier]

He would have had to have been in the lunchroom at 12:25, run up the stairs to the sniper's nest, got his rifle into position, fired three shots with incredible accuracy, and then wiped the gun clean of fingerprints, hidden it, then run back down the four flights of stairs to the second floor in less than 90 seconds.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So that would be quite the athletic endeavor.

[Rob Reiner]

Officer Baker testified that Oswald seemed, and I quote, calm and collected when he encountered him and that it didn't appear that he had been running. But there is another piece of evidence that makes this even more unlikely. Victoria Adams worked on the fourth floor of the building. And after the assassination she gave a brief deposition to the Warren Commission and then disappeared. She was afraid of what her testimony might mean and she didn't want to get sucked up into all the investigations. Decades later though, a researcher named Barry Ernst was able to track her down. And between the information that she gave him for his book Girl on the Stairs and her warrant commission testimony, some very powerful evidence emerged.

[Buell Frazier]

Adams was on the fourth floor with three female colleagues when the President's motorcade drove through Dealey Plaza. They heard gunshots and they watched the President's limo race off. She and co worker Sandra Stiles ran to the staircase and headed down.

[Rob Reiner]

And what she says next is important.

[Buell Frazier]

She testified that they did not see or hear anyone else on the stairwell at that time until they reached the first floor. And yes, it was the only stairwell.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So Oswald would have had to have used the same stairwell to get down to the lunchroom.

[Rob Reiner]

Right. So not only would Oswald have to fire three shots, clean and hide the gun, he would somehow have to manage to go unnoticed by Victoria Adams and Sandra Stiles as he raced down the stairs to the second floor lunchroom. Now you can believe that or the eyewitnesses who saw Oswald on the second floor the entire time.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So you're saying you don't believe that Oswald was even on the sixth floor when those shots were fired.

[Rob Reiner]

Well, let me tell you what the Dallas police Chief concluded later that day. He said, quote, the physical evidence and eyewitness accounts do not clearly indicate what took place on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository at the time that John F. Kennedy was assassinated.

[Buell Frazier]

And when Oswald was later arrested, the police did a paraffin test on his cheek. It tests for contaminants from gun residue and the test on Oswald's cheek was negative.

[Rob Reiner]

So my answer is no. I don't think there's any evidence that Oswald was on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting. Yet everything changes for him once those shots were fired. To have a murder as gruesome as Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I am confident that Julie Begley is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

This case, the more I learned about it, the more I'm scratching my head something's not right.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Murder on Songbird Road dives into the conviction of a mother of four who remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there.

[Rob Reiner]

I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you step somebody that many times, you'd have blood splatter was the change of clothes she found out she was pregnant, in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific. Nobody has gotten justice yet, and that's.

[Soledad O'Brien]

What I wish people would understand.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

Kennedy apparently shot in head. He fell face down in backseat of his car.

[Witness]

When the shots began to ring out, people really began to panic.

[Soledad O'Brien]

That's Buell Frazier, Oswald's co worker who drove him to work the morning of the assassination. He had stepped outside the Texas Schoolbook Depository building to watch the motorcade go.

[Witness]

By and people began to run and fall down and people were crying and hollering and screaming. And this one lady come walking up and she said, they shot the President. And I said, what did that woman say? She said, they have shot the President.

[Rob Reiner]

It's just after 12:35pm what does Oswald do next? Well, according to Frazier, he left the building.

[Witness]

Alongside the building was Lee himself.

[Rob Reiner]

And what was he doing?

[Witness]

He just walked along very casually. Then he turned right and crossed Elm Street. Someone said something. I turned to see who was talking to me, and when I turned back, I had lost him in the crowd.

[Rob Reiner]

As Oswald walked away from the building, I believe that is when he started to realize that something had gone wrong and that maybe what Richard Case Nagle had told him was true, that he was being set up.

[Soledad O'Brien]

You might remember Nagle as the intelligence agent who warned Oswald that he was being used by people around him.

[Rob Reiner]

Right now, Dealey Plaza is in total chaos. People are saying the President is going to die and Oswald begins to act as though his life is in danger.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So what does he do?

[Rob Reiner]

He crosses Houston street and witnesses see him get on a bus. But because of all this chaos, the bus wasn't moving. It was stuck in traffic. So the same witnesses who saw him get on the bus saw him get off. And the next thing we know is he finds a taxicab and tells the cab driver to take him towards his boarding house.

[Soledad O'Brien]

How do we know this?

[Rob Reiner]

Because the cab driver testified that Oswald told him to drop him off a couple of blocks away from his boarding house.

[Buell Frazier]

He's obviously concerned or suspicious, trying to hide his tracks, make sure he isn't being followed.

[Rob Reiner]

At 12:45pm, just 15 minutes after the President was shot, the Dallas PD had already radioed out a description. White male, 5 foot 10, 165 pounds, in his early 30s. And this was all based on the account of one man who was standing across the street and said he saw a man of this description fire a rifle from the sixth floor.

[Soledad O'Brien]

So now they begin their search for a man who roughly looks like Oswald.

[Rob Reiner]

It's now almost 1pm Oswald gets out of the cab and walks to the boarding house. The woman who runs the boarding house, Earlene Roberts, said that Oswald went into his room, grabbed his jacket and hurried out. And at some point during that time he grabbed his revolver and he left the boarding house and he started walking towards the Texas Theater. At 1:16pm, a Dallas police officer named J.D. tippit is patrolling the area near Oswald's boarding house. And he sees a man that fits the description he received on his radio. And he goes over to him. Now there's a lot of conflicting information about this, including from eyewitnesses. Some say Oswald was stopped by Tippit. Others say Tippit stopped someone else. There are even reports that Tippit stopped two people. All we know for sure is that Officer J.D. tippit was shot four times and killed.

[Soledad O'Brien]

And it's never been definitely proven who did it?

[Rob Reiner]

Nope. Eyewitness testimony from the incident is all over the place. The Tippett murder may be the subject of another podcast, but what we do know for sure is what Oswald does next. He goes to the movies.

[Soledad O'Brien]

The movies? How do we know he goes to the movies?

[Rob Reiner]

Because someone saw him slipping into the now famous Texas Theater without paying and they called the police. So now I wanna ask you a question.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Okay, shoot.

[Rob Reiner]

Okay. If you were Oswald and you just shot the President of the United States and you go into a movie theater to lay low for a few hours, where would you sit?

[Witness]

Hmm.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I would hide in a dark corner somewhere.

[Rob Reiner]

That makes sense. Now to understand I've been to the Texas Theater and it's big. It seats around 900 people. That afternoon there were only 20 people in the theater. And now he could go anywhere. So what does he do? He sits right down next to an 18 year old boy named Jack Davis. Now, I don't know about you, but when I'm in a virtually empty movie theater and a stranger comes in, they don't typically sit right next to you. They leave you some space.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Yeah, that would be normal.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, right. But not Oswald. In a nearly empty theater, he sits right next to someone.

[Soledad O'Brien]

That's weird.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, it is weird. And it gets weirder. After sitting next to this 18 year old Jack Davis, Oswald gets up and he moves across the aisle and he sits down next to somebody else. And a few minutes later he gets up and he, you know, just strolls to the lobby.

[Buell Frazier]

In the lobby, he buys popcorn. And the man selling him the popcorn testified that this was at 1:15pm but.

[Soledad O'Brien]

We know Tippit was was killed at 1:16.

[Rob Reiner]

He was. So either Oswald didn't kill Tippett or the popcorn guy is way off on his time. Anyway, Oswald goes back into the theater and according to researchers, he sits down next to a pregnant woman.

[Soledad O'Brien]

What do you think he's doing? Going from person to person to person?

[Rob Reiner]

You know, I think he is looking for his contact.

[Soledad O'Brien]

His contact.

[Rob Reiner]

The theater could have been a planned meeting spot where someone would be waiting to get him to a safe house and then ultimately out of Dallas.

[Buell Frazier]

This is straight out of the Intelligence Operation playbooks. If a plan goes wrong, go to your prearranged meetup spot.

[Rob Reiner]

Except that after sitting next to all these people, none of them respond. So he goes to the back of the theater and sits there alone. Within minutes, the Dallas PD arrives, The lights go on in the theater. The officers spot Oswald. Oswald pulls his gun, but before he can fire, a struggle ensues. Oswald is subdued. They place him under arrest and they put him in a squad car. On the way to the police station, one of the officers, Paul Bentley, recalled a conversation he had with Oswald. Quote, I asked him inside the car on the way to City hall, did you kill our President? To which Oswald replied, I haven't shot a damn person. As Oswald arrives at the police station, someone asks him if he wanted to hide his face from reporters. And he responds, why should I? I haven't done anything to be ashamed of. As he faces a barrage of questions from the press. There's someone in that gaggle whose name you might remember. Jack Ruby.

[Soledad O'Brien]

It's been a little while since we've heard about him.

[Rob Reiner]

He was that local Dallas nightclub owner and low level mobster. Many of the officers would frequent his club. They knew him and they didn't think much of him being there. But like we said in our first episode, if you pull on the Jack Ruby thread, a lot will come loose. In the next episode, we'll give that thread another tug and reveal who sent Ruby to take care of Oswald.

[Soledad O'Brien]

On the next episode of who killed JFK?

[Witness]

He called me about 4 or 5 o'clock and asked me to go down to the police station and check on what security, if any, there was around Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Soledad O'Brien]

We take a look at who Jack Ruby really was.

[Witness]

Every line from Jack Ruby goes back to the mob. The mob kills people who can tell the true story.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Who Killed JFK Is hosted by Rob Reiner and me, Soledad O'Brien and our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman and me, Soledad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman with research by Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer is Julie Pinero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfine and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash, Julie pinero and Marcus DeLauro. Our project manager is Carol Klein. Our Associate producer is Emilse Quiros. Mixing mastering and sound design by Ben Lahoulier Research and fact checking by Girl Friday and Emilse Kirk. Archival Audio in this episode. Thanks to Getty Images Odyssey, Dick Russell and Rob Reiner Business affairs by Hernan Nadea and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Rosanne Galyni. Recorded in part at CDM Studio and 4th Street Recording Studio. Show Logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arce and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who Killed JFK? Is a production of Soledad O'Brien Productions and I Heart Podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

To have a murder as gruesome as Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death, her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

They've never found a weapon, never made sense. Still doesn't make sense. She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Soledad O'Brien]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trejo]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturno Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo and Step into the Flames of Fright, an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnal on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.