48 Hours After

Summary

Who Killed JFK? – Episode: 48 Hours After

Release Date: January 3, 2024
Hosts: Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts in collaboration with Soledad O’Brien Productions

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Introduction: Revisiting a Nation’s Grief

The episode begins by setting the somber tone of President John F. Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963. Rob Reiner reflects on the gravity of the event and its enduring mystery:

Rob Reiner (00:00): "To have a murder as gruesome as Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down."

Soledad O’Brien introduces the tragic case of Julie Beverly, an 11-year-old girl murdered in Marion, Illinois, highlighting systemic issues in the justice system. While this case is a brief interlude, it underscores the theme of unresolved justice that parallels the JFK assassination investigation.

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Jack Ruby: The Enigmatic Figure

A significant portion of the episode delves into Jack Ruby, the nightclub owner who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, JFK’s alleged assassin, two days after the assassination.

Ruby's Background and Mob Connections

Rob Reiner outlines Ruby's murky past and his ties to organized crime:

Rob Reiner (06:06): "Jack Ruby was born Jacob Leon Rubenstein. At 11, he was arrested for truancy, spent time in foster homes, dropped out of school, and eventually joined the Teamsters Union. After serving in World War II, he moved to Dallas, changed his name, and began managing nightclubs and strip joints."

Lauren Bright Pacheco adds depth to Ruby's criminal activities:

Lauren Bright Pacheco (06:36): "There's evidence he also became involved in narcotics, prostitution, and gambling. Obviously, these are all businesses that are connected to the mob."

Ruby’s Relationship with Oswald

Rob Reiner presents evidence contradicting the Warren Commission’s assertion of no connection between Ruby and Oswald:

Rob Reiner (09:15): "There are eyewitnesses who talked on the record about Ruby and Oswald's relationship."

Quotes from witnesses reveal their interactions:

Helen K. Smith (10:23): "I saw Ruby and Oswald together on many occasions."

Shari Angel (10:31): Recounted Oswald dancing the twist with a woman named Kathy K., leading to a confrontation when Oswald called her husband a communist.

These testimonies suggest a deeper, undisclosed relationship, challenging the narrative of Oswald as a lone gunman.

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The Warren Commission and Its Shortcomings

The episode critically examines the Warren Commission's handling of Ruby and Oswald:

Dick Russell (04:51): "The Warren Commission Report says... no direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby has been discovered."

Rob Reiner questions the thoroughness of the Commission’s investigation, especially regarding Ruby’s connections:

Rob Reiner (09:43): "Contrary to the Warren Commission's conclusion, there is plenty of evidence that the two of them knew each other."

Ruby's insistence on a polygraph test further complicates the narrative:

Dick Russell (13:35): "As early as December of 1963, Jack Ruby expressed his desire to be examined with a polygraph... but they found it inconclusive."

Ruby’s frustration with the Commission is evident in his statements:

Rob Reiner (14:45): "Ruby said, 'The Warren Report never gave me the true authenticity when I requested a polygraph test... That's for you to find out.'"

These points highlight potential biases and omissions in the official investigation, fueling ongoing conspiracy theories.

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New Evidence and Alternative Theories

Rob Reiner introduces groundbreaking new evidence presented in 2023 by a former Secret Service agent, hinting at a larger conspiracy behind JFK’s assassination. Although details are reserved for future episodes, the implication is that Oswald and Ruby were mere pawns in a more extensive plot involving the CIA and organized crime.

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International Reactions and De Gaulle’s Insights

The episode broadens the discussion by exploring international perspectives, particularly French President Charles De Gaulle's thoughts on the assassination:

De Gaulle (28:46): "They got their hands on this Communist who wasn't one... They wanted to kill him on the spot before he could be grabbed by the judicial system."

De Gaulle's skepticism about Oswald’s role suggests that global leaders also questioned the official narrative, recognizing the potential for a fabricated scapegoat to prevent greater chaos:

De Gaulle (30:51): "America is in danger of upheavals... They won't allow themselves to find out."

Rob Reiner concurs, emphasizing America’s enduring desire to uncover the truth:

Rob Reiner (30:34): "De Gaulle was right on just about all of it, except one thing. I believe Americans do want to find out."

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Conclusion: The Quest for Truth Continues

As the episode wraps up, Reiner and O’Brien underscore the unresolved nature of the JFK assassination and the importance of continued investigation:

Dick Russell (21:22): "Nobody has gotten justice yet. And that's what I wish people would understand."

Rob Reiner teases the next episode, promising to reveal detailed accounts and possibly identify the shooters and their locations, further unraveling the tangled web of one of America's greatest mysteries.

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Key Takeaways:

• Jack Ruby’s Mob Ties: Ruby’s extensive connections to organized crime challenge the notion of his isolated act.
• Questionable Commission Findings: The Warren Commission’s dismissal of Ruby and Oswald’s relationship raises doubts about their impartiality.
• International Skepticism: Global leaders like De Gaulle recognized inconsistencies in the official story, hinting at a broader conspiracy.
• Enduring Mystery: New evidence continues to emerge, suggesting the assassination was more complex than a lone gunman scenario.

Notable Quotes:

• Rick Russell (04:51): "The Warren Commission Report says... no direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby has been discovered."
• Rob Reiner (14:45): "Ruby said, 'The Warren Report never gave me the true authenticity when I requested a polygraph test... That's for you to find out.'"
• Charles De Gaulle (28:46): "Better an injustice than disorder. They won't allow themselves to find out."

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Stay Tuned:
In the next episode of Who Killed JFK?, Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien promise to unveil detailed theories on how the assassination was orchestrated, including naming shooters and their locations, as they continue to explore the profound impact of JFK’s death on America and the world.

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Credits:
Who Killed JFK? is produced by Rob Reiner and Soledad O’Brien, with a dedicated team including Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, and others. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arce, and Dan Storper for archival audio. Recorded at CDM Studio and 4th Street Recording Studio. For more information and to listen to the episode, visit the iHeartRadio app or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Rob Reiner]

To have a murder as gruesome as Jay Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death, her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Dick Russell]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

They've never found a weapon, never made sense. Still doesn't make sense. She found out she was pregnant in jail.

[Dick Russell]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or where you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trehov]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me Danny Trehov and Step into the Flames of Fright, an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnum on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondents and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

On Monday, November 25, 1963, President Kennedy was laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery at the First Lady's request. The ceremony followed the same protocols for Abraham Lincoln's funeral nearly 100 years earlier. The flag draped casket was drawn by six gray horses. It was followed by one riderless black horse. Crowds lined Pennsylvania Avenue as the procession passed. Only the sounds of the drums and the clacking of horses hooves on the pavement could be heard. I'll never forget the rhythm Bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. Mrs. Kennedy, surrounded by family, friends, official dignitaries and a military escort, walked to St. Matthew's Cathedral for the service. Heads of state and representatives from more than 100 countries attended the funeral. Millions of people around the world tuned in to watch on television. After the service, the President's remains were laid to rest at Arlington memorial cemetery, where Mrs. Kennedy lit an eternal flame. 250,000 people waited up to 10 hours in freezing temperatures to pay their respects. The nation was in mourning. At virtually the same time, Lee Harvey Oswald, who had been murdered 24 hours earlier on live television by nightclub owner Jack Ruby was also being put to rest along with Oswald's remains. Secrets were buried.

[Dick Russell]

This is who killed JFK. 60 years later, what can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? And why does it still matter today? I'm your host Soledad O'Brien.

[Rob Reiner]

We've shown evidence that indicates that at the time of the shooting, Oswald was not on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository building. He seemed to know that he was part of something but likely didn't know exactly what it was. But when he heard that the President had been shot, he realized at that point that he was in danger. He fled the scene and he was ultimately arrested at the Texas movie theater. At the Dallas police station he claimed his innocence when he spoke this phrase, I'm just a Patsy. Within 48 hours of his arrest, Jack Ruby saw to it that Lee Harvey Oswald would never speak again. A year later the Warren Commission Report was released to the public. It set out with the goal of pinning it all on Oswald and it did. They wanted him to look like a lone gunman. Here is what they had to say about Jack Ruby.

[Dick Russell]

The Warren Commission Report says, quote, no direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby has been discovered by the Commission, nor has it been able to find any credible evidence that either knew the other. The Commission has found no evidence that Jack Ruby acted with any other person in the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Rob Reiner]

And they took Ruby at his word when he told them that he had killed Oswald out of sympathy for Jackie. He wanted to spare her the pain of having to return to Dallas for a trial.

[Dick Russell]

That seems just a bit absurd as an excuse.

[Rob Reiner]

Yes, it does. But it wasn't all that Jack Ruby had to say. He said something to his jailer after being arrested for killing Oswald. And it speaks to something much, much bigger. Soledad, could you read this?

[Dick Russell]

Sure. Quote, now they're going to find out about Cuba, the guns, New Orleans and everything.

[Rob Reiner]

Ruby was concerned that his connection to the CIA funded anti Castro operations would be uncovered.

[Dick Russell]

How exactly is a guy like Jack Ruby connected to what's happening in Cuba and New Orleans?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, to understand that, we need to understand who exactly Jack Ruby was. Jack Ruby was born in Chicago. He was born Jacob leon Rubenstein. At 11 he was arrested for truancy. He spent time in foster homes. He dropped out of school and eventually joined the Teamsters Union. After serving In World War II he moved to Dallas. He changed his name to Jack Ruby and and he started managing nightclubs and strip joints around town.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

There's evidence he also became involved in narcotics, prostitution and gambling. Obviously, these are all businesses that are connected to the mob.

[Rob Reiner]

The Dallas County Sheriff, Steve Guthrie, told the FBI that he believed, quote, Ruby operated some prostitution activities and other vices in his club. He was cozy with the Dallas police. Officers would come into his club and he'd give them free booze and he'd make sure that the women paid proper attention.

[Dick Russell]

Quite the host.

[Rob Reiner]

Along with running his clubs, Ruby became involved in running guns for the mob.

[Dick Russell]

A friend of Ruby's named James E. Baird spoke to the Dallas Morning News and testified to the FBI saying that Jack Ruby, quote, stored guns and ammunition in a two story house between the waterfront and the railroad tracks in Kemah, Texas. Baird personally saw Ruby and his associates load, quote, many boxes of new guns, including automatic rifles and handguns. Where exactly was he running these guns?

[Rob Reiner]

To Cuba. In September 1959, Ruby traveled to Havana as a guest of a close friend named Lewis J. McWilly. Before Castro took over, Florida mob boss Santos Trafficanti chose McWilly to run his casino in Havana. And after Castro came to power, McWillie was arrested and thrown out of the country. Back in the U.S. mcWillie was hired by Meyer Lansky and Sam Giancana to run their casinos in Las Vegas.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Five days before Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas, Ruby was seen at the Thunderbird in Vegas with McWillie.

[Rob Reiner]

You know, people often get lost in the semantics of whether or not Ruby was a mobster. Well, he wasn't a made man himself, but he had clear connections to the mob. It's the world he grew up in and the world he operated from. In Dallas. They say you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep. The House Select Committee looked at Ruby's phone records in the days leading up to November 22, and they discovered that he had made numerous phone calls to known mobsters.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Their reports showed that weeks prior to the assassination, Ruby made approximately 120 calls to mobsters associated with Sam Giancana and Carlos Marcelo.

[Dick Russell]

So how does this relate back to Oswald?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, just like we saw an uptick in activity around Oswald leave leading up to the assassination, the same was true of Ruby. Ruby and Oswald operated in the same sphere. So it should come as no surprise when I tell you that contrary to the Warren Commission's conclusion that there was no direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby, there is plenty of evidence that the two of them knew each other.

[Dick Russell]

How do we know that?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, there are eyewitnesses who talked on the record about Ruby and Oswald's relationship.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Dorothy Markham, a woman who dated Ruby, told the FBI that Oswald worked for Ruby during June and July. Clyde Malcolm Limbaugh, who worked for Ruby for three years, said he saw Oswald in Ruby's office on several occasions. Helen K. Smith, who worked at the Carousel Club, told the Dallas police that she saw Ruby and Oswald together on many occasions. And Robert Roy, Ruby's auto mechanic, said that Oswald used to drop off Ruby's car for repairs.

[Rob Reiner]

And then there's Shari angel, one of the most popular strippers at Ruby's club. Dick interviewed her years ago.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

I heard that you remember Oswald being in the club as well.

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

What do you remember about that Dancing.

[Rob Reiner]

With Kathy K. Drizzle twist. Then my husband hit him on town, called my husband a communist.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Called your husband a communist from the audience?

[Rob Reiner]

Yeah, if you missed that. She said that she remembers Oswald doing the twist with a woman named Kathy K. And her husband hitting him because Oswald called him a communist.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

So Oswald and Ruby definitely knew each other in the club before it happened.

[Rob Reiner]

Oh, yeah.

[Dick Russell]

And none of those witnesses testified to the Warren Commission?

[Rob Reiner]

None. And it wasn't until seven months after he killed Oswald that Ruby was even interviewed by the Commission. And what he said and didn't get to say will shock you. To have a murder as gruesome as Jake Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Dick Russell]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

This case, the more I learned about it, the more I'm scratching my head. Something's not right.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I'm Lauren Bright. Pacheco. Murder on Songbird Road dives into the conviction of a mother of four who remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there.

[Rob Reiner]

I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you step sleep that many times, you have blood splatter. Where's the change of clothes? She found out she was pregnant in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific. Nobody has gotten justice yet and that's.

[Dick Russell]

What I wish people would understand.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears edition Podcast. The Daily Show Podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dick Russell]

Why did the Warren Commission wait so long to interview Jack Ruby? How was he not at the top of the list?

[Rob Reiner]

You tell me. Before being interviewed by the Commission, Ruby insisted on taking a lie detector test.

[Dick Russell]

In the Warren Commission Report, it says that, quote, as early as December of 1963, Jack Ruby expressed his desire to be examined with a polygraph, truth serum, or any other scientific device which would test his veracity. And did they give him one?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, no, not at first. Eventually they did.

[Dick Russell]

What did it show?

[Rob Reiner]

The Warren Commission said that they found it inconclusive.

[Dick Russell]

What does inconclusive mean?

[Rob Reiner]

Well, they said that they couldn't verify the answers as true or false based on concerns they had over Ruby's mental state. It was an excuse that they used for other witnesses that didn't perfectly fit into the predetermined narrative. Ruby was frustrated. And when the Warren Report came out, this is what he said to the press.

[Dick Russell]

Ruby said, quote, the Warren Report never gave me the true authentity when I requested a polygraph test. He then goes on to say why they held back the answers, the results, whether they're true or false. That's for you to find out. That's for you to find out. That's pretty ominous.

[Rob Reiner]

I think he wanted to tell the truth about why he killed Oswald, but he knew that his life would be in danger if he did. So Ruby told the Warren Commission that if they got him out of Dallas, he would tell them everything he knew.

[Dick Russell]

He would tell them everything. Kind of can't get more loaded than that.

[Rob Reiner]

No, no, you can't. And he said, quote, gentlemen, unless you take me to Washington, you can't get a fair shake out of me. If you want to hear any further testimony out of me, you'll have to get me to Washington soon. I want to tell the truth and I can't tell it here. This isn't the place for me to tell you what I want to tell. Did they take him to D.C. he never left Dallas.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

After he was denied his trip to Washington, Ruby said, quote, I may not live tomorrow to give any further testimony. I want to get out to the public. And I can't say it here.

[Dick Russell]

Why couldn't he speak in Dallas? Why do you think he wanted to move so badly?

[Rob Reiner]

He was terrified for his life. He said, quote, I tell you, gentlemen, my whole family is in jeopardy. He didn't want to end up like George de Morenshield who mysteriously died the day he was subpoenaed to testify to the House Select Committee. Or Johnny Roselli, who was found chopped up and stuffed in an oil drum right before he was supposed to appear before the Committee. Or Richard Case Nagel, who died the day he received a subpoena to testify to the Assassination Records Review Board.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Here is how Robert Blakey, head of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, interpreted Ruby's remarks.

[Dick Russell]

Blakey said, quote, ruby was trying to tell the truth about the conspiracy he knew existed, but he feared for his life. You'll remember that Robert Blakey had a background in targeting organized crime.

[Rob Reiner]

The mob kills witnesses who are potential.

[Danny Trehov]

People who can tell the true story. And that's the reason I think, Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Rob Reiner]

From the time Kennedy was shot and killed until he himself was shot and killed, Oswald was in custody for just under 48 hours. Here's a transcript from a press conference during that period. Soledad, could you read this?

[Soledad O'Brien]

Sure.

[Dick Russell]

Did you kill the President, Oswald? No, sir, I didn't. People keep asking me that. Reporter. Did you shoot the president, Oswald? I work in that building. Were you in the building at the time, Oswald? Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir. Did you shoot the president, Oswald? No. They are taking me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy. It's remarkable that he's just out there fending for himself. Usually, you know, in any press conference with a suspected criminal, their lawyer would speak for them.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Oswald was never granted a lawyer.

[Dick Russell]

Did he get to make any phone calls?

[Rob Reiner]

He called Marina at Ruth Payne's and.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

There'S evidence that he made one other call and it's significant.

[Rob Reiner]

He placed a call to a military counterintelligence officer in North Carolina named John Hurt.

[Dick Russell]

And how do we know that?

[Rob Reiner]

Because there's a receipt showing that the operator placed the call. The switchboard operators who place long distance calls for patients people inside the jail were required to fill out a slip. A researcher found the slip with the date 112363 and John Hurt's name and telephone number. The woman working the switchboard that evening said that the call was never answered and that the two men in suits that were in the room likely made sure that the call never went through.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Researchers found John Hurt decades later to ask him about the call. He claimed he never knew Oswald and was completely unaware that Oswald had tried to call him. But he also didn't share the fact that he was military counterintelligence.

[Dick Russell]

What do you think he was hoping to accomplish with the call if he actually got heard on the line?

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

It was likely, and this process has been confirmed by ex CIA agents that Oswald was trying to reach a cutout, a go between to get a message to his case officer. He was going through a process designed for people on intelligence missions to get help. But since the call was never put through, Oswald was hung out to dry.

[Rob Reiner]

In another press conference at the police station, a reporter asks, did you kill the President? And Oswald says, quote, no, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The reporter then tells Oswald, you have been charged. And Oswald is absolutely stunned.

[Dick Russell]

In the televised report of this moment, you can really see his shocked reaction to this in real time.

[Rob Reiner]

He's realizing the implications of it all, that this horrific crime is gonna be pinned on him. And again, he didn't just say that he was innocent, he said he was a patsy. He knew that the men responsible for this had used him. That's why from the moment Oswald is brought to the police station, Jack Ruby starts to stalk him. Ruby's movements just before he kills Oswald show that this was not a spontaneous emotional decision. Ruby was part of something much bigger. To have a murder as gruesome as Jade Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Dick Russell]

I am confident that Julie Begley is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

This case, the more I learned about it, the more I'm scratching my head something's not right.

[Soledad O'Brien]

I'm Lauren Bright. Pacheco Murder on Songbird Road dives into the conviction of a mother of four who remains behind bars and the investigation that put her there.

[Rob Reiner]

I have not seen this level of corruption anywhere. It's sickening. If you step sleep that many times, you'd have blood splatter. Where's the change of clothes? She found out she was pregnant in jail. She wasn't treated like she was an innocent human being at all, which is just horrific.

[Dick Russell]

Nobody has gotten justice yet. And that's what I wish people would understand.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

Jack Ruby showed up at the police station at least twice before he found the opportunity on his third visit to take Oswald out. He was there during a press conference.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

At DA Henry Wade's press conference when Wade mistakenly identified Oswald as a member of the anti Castro Free Cuba Committee. Ruby corrected the DA saying quote, no sir, Mr. District Attorney, Oswald was a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.

[Rob Reiner]

None of the press or police or FBI there caught the DA's mistake, but nightclub owner Jack Ruby did. It's just so bizarre. First of all, why is a nightclub owner at this press conference to begin with? And second, how does he know the difference between the the Free Cuba and the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?

[Dick Russell]

So what exactly is the implication there.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

That Ruby knew all about Oswald?

[Rob Reiner]

We spoke with a man named John Currington about the time leading up to Oswald's death. Now John Currington for years was the right hand man for oil baron H.L. hunt. Hunt was one of the richest men in America with influence at the highest levels of government and and the Mafia. Now here is John Currington talking about a call he received on Saturday, November 23rd from HL Hunt.

[John Currington]

He called me about 4 or 5 o'clock and asked me to go down to the police station and check on what security, if any, there was around Lee Harvey Oswald. And he said, whenever you find out what I want to know about security, come to the house.

[Rob Reiner]

So what did you find?

[John Currington]

I go down to police station and I had no trouble walking in, walking out. I did have a briefcase with me. Nobody looked in that briefcase. And I was satisfied that there was no security whatsoever surrounding Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Rob Reiner]

And why did Mr. Hunt ask you to check out the security situation?

[John Currington]

He wanted to leave Harvey Oswald silence without having any kind of court hearing or anything else.

[Rob Reiner]

They knew that they could easily get to Oswald. They just needed the right guy to handle the job. And Hunt knew just who to turn.

[John Currington]

To I went out to Mr. Hunt's house and he said, I want to get a hold of Joe Savello and have him here as early as he can. Sunday morning.

[Rob Reiner]

Joe Savello was the head of the mob in Dallas. It's the morning of the 24th, two days after the assassination.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

At 10:35, Ira Walker, a television technician, is inside the station's news van outside the city Hall. Jack Ruby comes up to the window and asks, has he been brought down yet?

[Rob Reiner]

The he is Lee Harvey Oswald. Ruby knows that Oswald is going to be moved that day, and he hangs around to make sure that he is there when it happens. At 11:17, Ruby walks up an alley, passes through the crowd and enters the ramp into the police station. Within minutes, he's positioned directly in front of Oswald. And then he shoots Oswald.

[Dick Russell]

Here's David Talbot again.

[Rob Reiner]

He was a Mafia errand boy. That's why he killed Oswald. In the Mafia was the errand boys for the CIA. They used Mafia to do their dirty work.

[Dick Russell]

And here's the head of the House Select Committee, Robert Blakey.

[Danny Trehov]

Jack Ruby was the perfect guy to do it. Mob connected, but loosely.

[Rob Reiner]

Ruby gave an interview In March of 1965, a year after his conviction.

[Dick Russell]

In the interview, Ruby said, quote, everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts of what occurred, my motives, the people who had so much to gain and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in will never let the true facts come above board to the world.

[Rob Reiner]

In 1966, Jack Ruby died in prison three years after the assassination of President Kennedy. He died of a pulmonary embolism caused by complications from a cancer that came on suddenly and aggressively. In the next episode, we'll lay out in detail how we think the assassination took place. We will name the shooters and give you their locations. But before we finish this episode, we need to talk about something that for the most part, has been ignored. And that's the impact that Kennedy's death had on the rest of the world.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

On the day of the assassination, Fidel Castro was having lunch with a French reporter named Jean Daniel. Daniel reported that when Castro got word that the President had been shot, he said, es una mala noticia. This is bad news. He said it three times. Then when he got confirmation that Kennedy had died, he said, everything is going to change. Then as he processed the situation, Castro said, quote, now they will have to find the assassin quickly, but very quickly. Otherwise, you watch and see. I know them. They will try to put the blame on us for this thing, which is.

[Rob Reiner]

Exactly what they did.

[Dick Russell]

Reports that were declassified in 2017 show that the KGB held a series of emergency meetings when they heard the news. Sergei Khrushchev, Nikita's son, wrote in a memoir about his father that when his father heard the news, he fell to his knees and sobbed. The Soviet Party's newspaper Pravda ran a biography depicting Kennedy as a champion of peace.

[Rob Reiner]

It's completely counterintuitive to think that the Soviets or the Cubans had anything to do with this. Kennedy was trying to forge a path towards peace with them. He was their great hope.

[Dick Russell]

Then who did these foreigners think did it?

[Rob Reiner]

I believe that the answer to your question can be provided by French President Charles De Gaulle.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

De Gaulle shared his thoughts about the assassination with his information minister, Roger Parafit, who then shared these thoughts.

[Dick Russell]

In his memoir, de Gaulle says, quote, what happened to Kennedy is what nearly happened to me. The security forces were in cahoots with extremists. Then Parafid asked de Gaulle, do you think Oswald was a front? Everything leads me to believe it, de Gaulle replied. They got their hands on this Communist who wasn't one, while still being one. He had a subpar intellect and was an exalted fanatic. Just the man they needed, the perfect one to be accused. The guy ran away because he probably became suspicious. They wanted to kill him on the spot before he could be grabbed by the judicial system. De Gaulle continued, security forces all over the world are the same when they do this kind of dirty work. As soon as they succeed in wiping out the false assassin, they declare that the justice system no longer need be concerned, that no further public action was needed now that the guilty perpetrator was dead. Better to assassinate an innocent man than to let a civil war break out. Better an injustice than disorder. De Gaulle said. America is in danger of upheavals. But you'll see, all of them together will observe the law of silence. They will close ranks. They'll do everything to stifle any scandal, in order to not lose face in front of the whole world, in order to not risk unleashing riots in the United States in order to preserve the Union and to avoid a new civil war, in order to not ask themselves questions. They don't want to know. They don't want to find out. They won't allow themselves to find out.

[Rob Reiner]

De Gaulle was right on just about all of it, except one thing. I believe Americans do want to find out. We do want to know what happened and on the next episode, we're going to tell you.

[Dick Russell]

Next episode, Rob and Dick finally answer the question, who killed jfk?

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

I see the hallmarks or the markers of this potentially being a CIA operation that rogues would have conducted.

[Rob Reiner]

This was a top secret facility. He was there all during that fateful weekend.

[Lauren Bright Pacheco]

Osborne wasn't a damn thing in the world but a decoy.

[Dick Russell]

Who Killed JFK Is hosted by Rob Reiner and me, Soledad O'Brien and our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman and me, Soledad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman with research by Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinero. Our senior producer is Julie Pinero. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfine and Amari Lee. Our editors are Tristan Nash, Julie Pinero and Marcus Dilaudo. Our project manager is Carol Klein. Our associate producer is Emilse Quiros. Mixing, mastering and sound design by Ben Lahoulier. Research and fact checking by Girl Friday and Emilse Quiros. Archival Audio in this episode thanks to Dick Russell and Rob Reiner. Business affairs by Hernan Nadea and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Rosanne Gallagini. Recorded in part at CDM Studio and 4th Street Recording Studio. Show Logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Special thanks to Joe Honig, Rose Arce and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who Killed JFK? As a production of Soledad O'Brien Productions and I heart podcasts.

[Rob Reiner]

To have a murder as gruesome as Jade Beasley's doesn't happen very often down.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Here in Marion, Illinois. An 11 year old girl brutally stabbed to death. Her father's longtime live in girlfriend maintaining innocence but charged with her murder.

[Dick Russell]

I am confident that Julie Beverly is guilty.

[Rob Reiner]

They've never found a weapon. Never made sense. Still doesn't make sense. She found out she was probably pregnant in jail.

[Dick Russell]

The person who did it is still out there.

[Soledad O'Brien]

Listen to Murder on Songbird road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Trehov]

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me Danny Trey Hove and step into the Flames of Fright, an anthology podcast. I'm modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jon Stewart]

John Stewart is back at the Daily show and he's bringing his signature wit and insight straight to your ears with the daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Dive into John's unique talent. Take on the biggest topics in politics, entertainment, sports, and more. Joined by the sharp voices of the show's correspondence and contributors, and with extended interviews and exclusive weekly headline roundups, this podcast gives you content you won't find anywhere else. Ready to laugh and stay informed? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.