God’s Way Is Better — I Finally Believe It | Sadie Roberton Huff & Jamie MacDonald

Summary

Podcast Summary: "God’s Way Is Better — I Finally Believe It" | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jamie MacDonald

Episode Release Date: May 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of the "WHOA That's Good Podcast," host Sadie Robertson Huff engages in a profound conversation with musician and speaker Jamie McDonald. The discussion delves into Jamie's transformative journey from a tumultuous past to embracing faith, overcoming challenges, and finding purpose through music and ministry.

Jamie McDonald's Early Life and Struggles

Jamie McDonald opens up about her challenging upbringing and the struggles that shaped her early years. Born in Nashville to a pro boxer father, her family frequently traveled as her father pursued his boxing career. This instability led to financial hardships, leaving Jamie and her siblings primarily under the care of their mother.

Notable Quote:

"My childhood just feels like it was a little bit sad and hard just because we would wait for him to have a big fight to kind of provide... it just wouldn't happen." — Jamie McDonald [08:10]

As her mother remarried when Jamie was twelve, the family moved to a new town. Her stepfather, while providing stability, imposed strict rules that stifled Jamie's love for singing, inadvertently contributing to her developing a "hard heart."

Encounters and Turning Points

Jamie recounts a pivotal moment at a church camp when she first felt God's love, which planted the seed for her faith journey. Despite this encounter, she struggled to maintain her newfound faith amidst ongoing personal and familial challenges, leading her into a life marked by addiction and instability.

Notable Quote:

"I would always hear that phrase, like, don't go back to that hardened heart that you used to have." — Jamie McDonald [05:34]

Her interactions with a homeless man outside a Kroger further influenced her perspective, emphasizing the importance of keeping her heart open despite life's adversities.

Embracing Faith and Transformation

At the age of 21, Jamie experienced a profound spiritual awakening that steered her away from a destructive lifestyle. She details her experience at a rescue mission shelter, where she began to rekindle her relationship with God, leading to her baptism and subsequent mission work in Africa.

Notable Quote:

"I just started belting out this gospel song. No musicians around. And the way that God just, like, blessed that moment... it just was like, okay, I was made to do this." — Jamie McDonald [22:20]

This period marked a significant transformation, as Jamie found purpose in worship leading alongside her mother and stepfather, symbolizing a full-circle moment from her restrictive past to a harmonious present.

Music as a Medium for Healing and Ministry

Jamie discusses how music became a vessel for expressing her emotions and sharing her testimony. Her songs, such as "A Million Is a Million Chances" and "Desperate," reflect her journey of redemption and serve as tools for others facing similar struggles.

Notable Quote:

"My heart is to make sure others know, like, who God says they are... your story's not over." — Jamie McDonald [27:12]

Her involvement in prison ministry further emphasizes her commitment to using music as a means of outreach and support, providing hope and second chances to those incarcerated.

Overcoming Insecurities and Sharing Her Story

Transitioning from being someone who needed guidance to a leader inspiring others, Jamie shares her apprehensions about leading and communicating her story. Despite feeling unprepared at times, feedback from her audience has reinforced the impact of her testimony.

Notable Quote:

"I'm stepping in, being like... I don't always remember the timelines perfectly... but people are coming up and they're not talking about my singing and my songs as much as they're saying, Thank you for sharing your story." — Jamie McDonald [51:23]

Her humility and honesty resonate with listeners, underscoring the power of vulnerability in fostering genuine connections and inspiring change.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with reflections on the importance of embracing one's journey, relying on faith through hardships, and the transformative power of music and storytelling. Jamie McDonald's narrative serves as an inspiring testament to resilience, redemption, and the unwavering belief that God's way indeed is better.

Final Notable Quote:

"God is using your story for His kingdom. It's beautiful to see that awaken people in their own lives." — Sadie Robertson Huff [52:05]

This episode not only highlights Jamie's personal victories but also serves as a beacon of hope for listeners navigating their own struggles, reinforcing the message that no matter how "far gone" one may feel, redemption and purpose are always within reach.

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For more inspiring conversations, tune into the "WHOA That's Good Podcast" hosted by Sadie Robertson Huff.

Transcript

[Sadie Robertson]

Race the rudders. Raise the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Jamie McDonald]

Over.

[Unknown Host]

Roger, wait.

[Sadie Robertson]

Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. She's made up her mind to live pretty smart Learn to budget responsibly Right from the start she spends a little less and puts more into savings Keeps her blood pressure low and credit score raises she's cutting debt right out of her life she tracks her cash flow on her spreadsheet at night Boring money.

[Jamie McDonald]

Moves make kinda lame songs but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet brilliantly boring since 1865.

[Unknown Host]

What's up, everybody? Okay, before we get into today's podcast episode, which I am so excited about, I gotta tell y' all something brand new on the live original website that just dropped that you have got to know about. It's called the Ello Study. It is a seven week Bible study that we want you to download and do one by yourself, but more than that with friends. The whole thing is sisters who study together. And we are hoping that this will help you get in the Word with community. That's our whole goal in this that you know, we know. So many people have been asking us how to read the Bible. We've done so many podcasts like that, how to make community centered in Christ. And so we're hoping that we can help bridge that gap for you. And so we dropped the Ello Study. We want you to download it, read it, soak it all up and maybe meet some friends or further your friendships in the meantime. Also want to let you know about something that's dropping next month or starting next month. And it's Ello Local. This is so exciting, y' all. In several cities around the nation, there are going to be local groups that are meeting together that are actually going through this study together. And so maybe you don't have that Christ centered community right now, but you're in one of these cities. Go to one of the local nights, study the Word together with these new sisters and friends. If you're not in one of those cities, then we encourage you. We're also going to be doing it Ello Virtual so you can just watch it on like a zoom call or something and that's where you can connect or you can start one for yourself if you're like, hey, I want to Start at lo local, text some friends, text your, you know, your group and say, hey, let's start this together. Let's read the study together. I think that you'll be deeply encouraged. The whole first one is on sisterhood and friendship, and I just hope that it makes you fall more in love with who God is. I hope that it helps you build your community, and I know that you're going to love it. So we're so excited about that. Make sure to head over to the live original website and download the Ello study and get your friends on it, too. All right, without further ado, we're going to jump into today's podcast, y' all. It is a good one. Your week is about to get so much better. We have a new guest in the house today that you guys are just going to absolutely love. You probably heard her music, but today you're getting to hear her story as well. And I'm so excited to introduce Jamie McDonald to the podcast. So welcome to Louisiana, Girl.

[Jamie McDonald]

Thank you. I'm loving it so far.

[Unknown Host]

It's pretty cool, right?

[Jamie McDonald]

Been amazing.

[Unknown Host]

It's pretty cool. We were just talking about having a cool life. East Nashville is cool.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Monroe's cool, right?

[Jamie McDonald]

I just got the Duck Tour, so I'm extra inspired.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah. Now. Now you really have reached the Cool the Duck Tour. That's so funny. But, no, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're on this podcast. I've said this to you guests before, and I truly mean it. Like, to get to prepare for someone to be on this podcast and study someone's life or research their music or their projects. It is such a blessing to me because I'm so encouraged by who they are. So this morning, I, like, listen to a podcast you did. I've listened to your music, and now I'm like, man, what a great start to my day to get to hear all the things that God has done in your life. And I'm so glad that everyone's about to get to hear the things that God has done. So you're. You're just awesome and cheering you on, and I can't wait to have a conversation. But first, Jamie, this is the question I ask everybody who comes on this podcast for the first time. And if you're not ready for it, it'll come from left field. But what is the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

[Jamie McDonald]

I would say right when I became a Christian, when I was 21 years old, I was. I had just Moved to Kansas City to pursue music. I was about to attend a music school, and I was talking with this homeless man outside of a Kroger. And I often love getting in conversations with homeless people just because they just have a lot to share, and they're always blessing me with whatever they share. But this guy said, no matter what happens to you, don't harden your heart. And at the time, I was like, man, I just gave my life to Jesus. Like, I expected my life was about to get easier and better because I had, like, such a past and a really hard heart in the past. But God had already, like, healed so much in that first year. And it was just cool because that phrase stayed with me throughout my whole walk with the Lord. And, you know, I thought everything was going to start happening good. And it really was a long journey, even after giving my life to Jesus and, you know, heartbreak and addiction in my family and just life, how it happens to all of us. You know, we're going to face a lot of different things. But I would always hear that phrase, like, don't go back to that hardened heart that you used to have. So that was just cool.

[Unknown Host]

Dang, that is so good. And coming from someone who is homeless, you have to know they have a story. And for that person to say, like, don't let your heart get hard is, like, you feel the weight of the words a little differently when you know, someone's probably walked through some really hard stuff that would lead you to having a hard heart, which. That's so real. And I love that you're just honest and saying, like, hey, whenever I started following Jesus, I thought it was going to get good, and it didn't at first, you know, and it's never, ever promised to always, always be good.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I do think a lot of people go in with the expectation of, like, all right, I'm gonna get saved now. Things are about to get good. Here comes the blessing. Here come. And it's like, that is not what the word is even says. But sometimes church can be misleading in that, and messages can be misleading in that. Okay, before we dive into your story, I just want to ask you about conversations with homeless people, because that's so intriguing to me.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

How do you, like, get into a good conversation with homeless people? Do you initiate it? Like, what does that look like?

[Jamie McDonald]

I would say, like, if I'm walking and, you know, I see someone sitting there, I'll just stop and just say, hey, how are you doing? Or, you know, I usually keep some cash on me and there's, like, debates about that, whether you should give homeless people cash, But I'm just like, whatever they need, they're gonna buy. And that's not up to me. But, yeah, I just love hearing their story. A lot of times, for me, it's like, I have compassion because I know that there's a place in their story where something probably happened to them that wasn't fair. And so, like, from a young age, you know, it's like they've got the craziest stories of how they ended up there, and I just love hearing that. And everyone's got a story, and I just. I love stories.

[Unknown Host]

That's cool. I. I'm so with you. We had Jimmy Darts on the podcast years ago. He's amazing. He's, like, just been such an inspiration for initiating conversations with people.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Like, not being afraid to bless people, which sounds funny, but it's so true. Like, you feel intimidated to even give someone money or ask you how they're doing. And it's like, when you break it down, why do I feel that way? Like, what's the worst that could happen? Like, this is gonna open the door to a good conversation, or if anything, they're gonna feel blessed.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And at the end of the day, yeah. It's like, okay, who's to say how they're gonna spend their money? It's not on you to know that. Or it's like, this is your obedience to give. And so, anyways, he has inspired me a lot. And so when you brought that up, I was like, I gotta know, like, what's your story with that? So it's really cool. All right, let's backtrack. Tell us about who you are. You mentioned you're from a small town in Michigan.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

What was life like growing up?

[Jamie McDonald]

Well, born in Nashville. First, my dad was a pro boxer, and so we traveled a ton as a family. He was fighting the world title.

[Unknown Host]

Wow.

[Jamie McDonald]

Around the time I was born, and so it was just a crazy time to be a kid. My dad was gone a lot, so my mom was kind of on her own raising us. And so my childhood just feels like it was a little bit sad and hard just because we would wait for him to, like, have a big fight to kind of provide, like, an income for us, and it just wouldn't happen. Like, he wouldn't. He wouldn't win. And then we would end up struggling again. And my mom was waitressing, and a very young mom. I think she. By the time she was 19, she had three kids, or at least two kids. And then shortly after had my brother. And so, yeah, it was just a tough time. And I kind of just remember internalizing and getting really quiet and being quiet about having any needs and stuff like that. So they ended up divorcing and my mom basically raised us on her own for a number of years as a waitress. And so we were in the restaurant a lot with her. And I kind of remember like rolling silverware as a kid and just like hiding under the booths. And there are some like fun memories with that. But I just remember she really, really struggled. And then around the age of 12, my mom remarried. And that was kind of what brought us. We moved to a new town and I started a new school and my new stepdad, although he provided like a ton of stability for our family, he never really wanted kids, but he like really loved our mom. And so it was like, don't exist. Don't make any noise. And like the rule for me was no singing in the house. And like, singing was the one thing that brought me so much joy. And so that was pretty tough.

[Unknown Host]

That was a, like an actual rule.

[Jamie McDonald]

Singing in the house. And so I really started to develop just like some anger issues and like I mentioned earlier, like that hard heart.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Jamie McDonald]

And so I, I developed this hard heart even around music and around singing. And so just like pain and music just were like synonymous. And it was, it was something I was celebrated for in school but punished for at home.

[Unknown Host]

Wow.

[Jamie McDonald]

And so, yeah, I just got really hard and I started doing self harm and really just started doing bad in school. And nobody really knew why, you know, because I, at school I was just like, that's kind of where I would flourish with friends. And I was happy there and not happy at home. But yeah, nobody understood like what was going on in my home life and what was going on inside of me. I got invited to church camp at 12 years old. And that was incredible encounter for me. First off, like the love of the counselors, they were just like, jamie, who are you? Like, we love you. Tell us, tell us all about you. And you know, it was like the singing was so encouraged at camp too. So we just like sang non stop. And I felt God's love for me and learned about God's love for me kind of for the first time. And. And I just never forgot that feeling. There was a sermon. It's funny because I can always remember a sermon from like last week, but I never forgot the sermon.

[Unknown Host]

Isn't that cool?

[Jamie McDonald]

When I was like 12 years old. Yeah. And there Was like this illustration of the A plan and the B plan that God, like, God' a plan for your life. And then, like, sometimes we get lost and end up on the B plan, which is, you know, getting into the wrong crowd and experimenting with whatever, drugs, alcohol. That was kind of the age where I was starting to get into temptation with that. And so I really just clung to that message. And my best friend and I gave our lives to Jesus at camp together. And from leaving camp, I just got right back into the same home situation and I really struggled to just feel understood. And I kind of felt off the deep and pretty bad and got in the wrong crowd, started doing drugs a lot more and skipping school and ended up in a group home. And so that was just like kind of my teen years was in and out of group homes, and then I ended up dropping out of high school. I lived with my aunt for a while and then just kind of went off on my own and started staying the night with random people and going to parties. Wow. There were times I had nowhere to go and, you know, people would be like, where are we dropping you off at? And I, you know, just like, I don't live anywhere, you know, so that was, like, really rough on my identity. So for about five years, I lived like that, where it just slipped.

[Unknown Host]

Your seniors, too?

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

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[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

When you were, like, at that age, even before you. You went to campus, like, music and pain were synonymous. Like, what did that before having Christ? Because now, knowing your songs, you have such a way of, like, bringing pain in. But it's like the redemption side. But what did it look like before the redemption side? Like, was it getting out your emotion because you didn't have the space to do that in front of other people? Like, what did that processing look like for you?

[Jamie McDonald]

You mean to, like, get to where.

[Unknown Host]

It is now or even, like, back in the day, like, music? Because you talk about having music as, like, a kid, but it was, like, punishing the home.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Flourish in school.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

What was music to you without the faith component of music?

[Jamie McDonald]

Just a way to express my feelings. Cause I felt, like, so suppressed, even. Just, like, I felt like I didn't have a voice and I was, like, silenced, you know, at home. And so I would just put on headphones and get lost in, like, Mariah Carey or. And some of it was, like, stuff that I couldn't even relate to as a kid. Just, like, love songs or whatever. But when I was a teen, the Alicia Keys record was. I don't remember what year that came out, but I remember I was kind of going through, like, a heartbreak. And that record, just, like, I tapped into, like, the deepest emotions I've ever felt, you know, just like she said every word I needed to hear. And so I would sing along to that and really learned how to sing, too, by listening to them. And I would actually go out in the woods and sing. So, like, behind our house, there was, like, this trail that led down to this river, and I would just run down that trail every day and just go sing out there or go climb trees and sing in the trees.

[Unknown Host]

Wow. I love this.

[Jamie McDonald]

I still do that. Hey, it's Still a big part of my life.

[Unknown Host]

I get that, like, there's a spot for me. We grew up at a summer camp, and there's like a place in the woods at that camp that I have gone back to as an adult. And that's like my. No one in the world knows where I am right now. No one in the world can hear me. And as I can sing as loud as I want to, I can pray as loud as I want to, and just, like, brings you to, like, your roots in your faith. So I actually so relate to that. And I think it's cool because, you know, this is obviously gonna air a different day. But we both know Ms. Tara and Mr. Was talking about how, like, when people go through hard times in life and they're like, God, where were you? And she's like, he was there. And it's cool to look back, like, think back at your life. And that was in like, some really rough moments. But the gift God gave you was in you. And he was using that to comfort you even before you knew it was, like, attached to him giving it to you. You know, like, music was still a gift and it was still something that was like getting you through some dark stuff. So you go to camp, you give your life to the Lord, which I love that because I'm such a camp girl.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yes.

[Unknown Host]

And, man, it's so cool because counselors and stuff like that, just people loving you and seeing you can go such a long way, but then you get back and go right back into it. Did you feel convicted or were you just, like. Were you just, like. That wasn't real. Forget it. Like, what?

[Jamie McDonald]

No, it was so real. And like, even the songs, like, stayed with me. I remembered the songs so well, and my best friend and I kind of both went down different paths. But like, in beginning of high school, like, we would. We'd be at a party and, you know, we'd run into each other and both of us just, like, obligerent, like, just had drank all night. And we'd find each other and be like, hey, we gotta get back on the A plan, you know, and we just grab each other's shoulders, like, don't forget the A plan. And you know, just like always this thing. And her and I are still best friends to this day. So we've walked through so many moments in life together, but we both got very off track for a number of years. And it was always that a plan. Like, we'd write each other, you know, notes or send each other letters in the mail. Every birthday card, it's like, at the bottom, it's just like. Like the. A black. So it was something cool that God gave us. And. And now we're both on another, like, sober journey together. So we've got. We've both just hit our, I think, six or seven years sober together. So it's just, like, fun that we've had each other to walk through.

[Unknown Host]

What a gift. That is so cool. Okay, so you mentioned you were living in group homes and not really having a place to live. And I heard in your story, because I did listen to a podcast that you ended up living with some drug dealers for a while. How did that take a turn? Like, how did you get involved with that? And what. Around what age was that?

[Jamie McDonald]

So when I dropped out of high school, I was maybe about to turn 16, and I was already hanging around drug dealers and just people that do drugs because I was doing drugs. And so that kind of just became a family to me. And it really, you know, they were. They were good to me. They had my back, they took care of me. I didn't have a job, you know, I didn't have anything of my own. So it was like a support for me. And it did feel like a family. And those were my friends, and they happened to be drug dealers. And also, you know, it was just a party lifestyle. So we were just constantly partying. There was like a hip hop culture theme. So I was the girl voice on a lot of rap music at the time. And I was still pretty shy about singing. Cause I'd just been through so much, like I said, pain with music, and it was just confusing. But if I would drink enough, they could get me to sing in, like, the studio. So it's just like, you know, liquor and whatever. And then I. They'd push me in there to sing some stuff. And it honestly, like, wasn't. A lot of. It wasn't terrible as far as, like, you know, I wasn't on, like, crack in some alley. Like, we were just partying really hard and. But I got so tired of that lifestyle. And I saw some of my friends overdose. Some of my friends went to prison. And it just like, it's very tiring lifestyle too. And I would. I was sitting in our house one day because we were kind of like the hub for all of it because we had like, the drugs and stuff. And people would just come party and pass out everywhere. And I would hear the Holy spirit speak to me. I'd get just like, in a stare and, you know, I would zone out and into my own thoughts. And. And I would just be reminded of what God said to me as a young girl. And I would hear just the Holy Spirit say, this isn't the end of your story. Wow, I've got a plan for your life. And, you know, this is not it. And I just, like, started listening to that voice and just like, okay, God, like, if. If you really could get me out of this lifestyle, like, what would that look like? Because I had burned every other bridge. I didn't have anywhere to go. And I began to, like, read my Bible in the mornings secretly. I'd wake up and read the Word. And I got invited to church one Sunday, and the pastor just said everything. Just, like, called out everything that was going on in my world. It's just like, so God to. Whatever message he gave that pastor that day was, like, specifically for me. I know it was. And I was like, whoa, this is real. Like, God is real, and he's really talking to me. And so I just got more and more curious about that voice and that lifestyle. And I ended up. In order to get out of that situation, I ended up in a rescue mission shelter because I really had nowhere to go, and I just knew I had to get out of there immediately. And so I ended up in a rescue mission. And then from there I started. I ended up living with a friend and kind of got out of that lifestyle, and then slowly but surely just started attending churches, and I got right into mission work. So after my best friend and I got baptized together at 21 years old, and then from there, I just got on mission teams. I went to Africa right away. And that was like, a pretty cool pivot, pivotal moment for me, singing for the Lord. Because they pushed me up to preach when I was in Africa, because they're just like, hey, this. Surely if they've sent you this far, you must have the word of the Lord. Like, why else would they send you? You're the anointed one. And I'm like, I promise I don't know the Bible. I just became a Christian, like. And so I just started singing instead, because everybody was just, like, standing there staring at me. And I knew I didn't know how to preach, and so I just started belting out this gospel song. No musicians around. And the way that God just, like, blessed that moment, it's just, like, something unlocked in me. And I'm like, okay, I was made to do this. And they all started singing along, and it was just like, this huge moment of praise. And so from there, I was in Africa for a month. So from there I moved back to Michigan and joined a worship team.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jamie McDonald]

And something really beautiful is, my mom remarried again and this time a worship leader. So she turned her life around, gave her life to Jesus, and now the house is filled with music, and I'm now on a worship team with my mom and my new stepdad.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jamie McDonald]

So full circle, very redemptive moment.

[Unknown Host]

That's crazy. From no singing in the house to worship leader.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And y' all are all worship leading together. That's unbelievable. That is so cool. It's so cool that you started hearing, like, the Holy Spirit speak to you. Did you know it was the Holy Spirit at the time?

[Jamie McDonald]

I did, yeah. Because I never forgot what he spoke to me as a young girl. And so even at my lowest moments throughout those five years that I was just at rock bottom, like, I would think of those camp songs and I would hear him speak to me in different moments. But at that one point, I was so tired of that lifestyle. And it was just, you know, ready. It was just time. Yeah. And it was like, okay, I'm ready to actually listen to this voice and really follow God's plan. And I didn't know how to get out. And that was one of the hardest things, is like, where am I gonna go and what am I gonna do? And God just like, every little step I took, he would bless it. And then he put more family around me through the body of Christ. And suddenly I'm, you know, moving to different cities and people are like, come live with us. We believe in you. And I started recording and writing my own songs, and people would just. I did, like, crowdfunding. So I did two records, totally unexpected, but people just donated and said, hey, we believe in you. Like, and just got me along the way with music.

[Unknown Host]

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[Jamie McDonald]

I think, like the years that I was dropped out of high school, I really thought there was no hope for my life. You know, I just, I didn't even know how to look a week ahead. I was like, how am I going to get through this one day? You know? And so there's definitely times even throughout after getting saved that I didn't feel good enough. And, you know, I'M trying to step into my calling and just having, like, feeling like my whole past is still hanging over me. And it's taken so many years to really, like, feel like I belong, you know, feel like a daughter, feel like someone who has something to say and worth listening to. And so for me, like, with my music, it's been this really cool way to, like, speak the truth over myself. And, like, my heart is to make sure others know, like, who God says they are. And, like, even my first single, just, like, it's not too late and your story's not over. Like, that's what I hope to do with people who are where I was is just, like, reach back and be like, hey, I was there. And, like, God can do anything and even great things with a story like yours if you let him, you know?

[Unknown Host]

So encouraging because, like, people watching this podcast right now are probably like, whoa. Was not expecting that. Because when you look at you, you're stunning. You have the cutest style. You have the most incredible voice to you reading your Bible back there. And so to hear, like, the pastor, it's like, whoa, look at what God can do. You know? Because a lot of times you just look at somebody, you're like, oh, they're just. They just got it. You know, they just got it. And it's, like, cool to hear you go, oh, no. I had to work for years to, like, overcome those insecurities of, am I enough? Am I this? Well, I think some people just, you know, you look at your story. I could never. Then you hear yours. You're like, oh, okay, maybe I could. You know. I love your song A Million Is a Million Chances. Is that the song you were referring to?

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

So good. Talk to me about writing that song and singing that song, what that looks like.

[Jamie McDonald]

Well, I. Few years ago, I was living in Georgia. Kind of an interesting chapter. But I moved to Georgia during the pandemic to help look after my dad. Kind of reunited with him after years of not seeing him because he kind of never came back around after they divorced when we were young and he had Parkinson's and dementia. So I moved there and spent some years with him until he passed. Passed and around, like, the time that he got on hospice, I was really struggling. I was the only person in Georgia. I didn't have any, like, family or anything. And so I was just hopeless and really fighting, you know, just like, so many. So much grief and feeling alone. And I got invited to sing in a prison, and I hadn't done any singing in quite a Few years, I think I was going on about four years that I hadn't sang anywhere or written any songs for myself. And when I got to the prison, I was kind of walking down the hallway to meet the, the choir for the first time because there was a music program. And I start to hear, you know, this song playing. And it turns out they were performing one of my songs. And as I came in the room, like, there are all these faces singing my song to me and I just like started weeping. And it was like the most hope I had felt in so many years. And I was like, like, I'm supposed to be here. And so my time with them really kind of awakened my love for music again. And A Million Chances was the first song I wrote as I was like, okay, I want to sing again. I want to. I want to let God use me again. And, you know, I had already talked with record labels years prior and just didn't find like, what felt like a good fit for me in the music industry. And little did I know God wanted to walk me through like a five year healing journey with my dad and like, like heal some stuff that was probably going to prevent me from really being able to step into my calling and probably why for years. Why it took me so many years to, to really be ready to share. That was like the final piece I felt like. And so after that experience with my dad and then being reawakened for my love for music in the prisons, it was just like the songs just started coming and so I was able to write, write so many songs out of that season and I still am. But yeah, so the, the Million Chances song is definitely from my prison experience.

[Unknown Host]

And that's really cool.

[Jamie McDonald]

The cool thing about them is they, although they're in prison and you know, they're. It's almost like, are you getting a million chances? Like you got locked up for the one thing you did and. But they found Jesus in there. And so for them, that's like their second chance and that's their chance at like, like, you know, they're living like full lives in there and they're shining and they love the Lord and they carried me through that season with my dad. Like, I wasn't serving them, they were serving me. It was a beautiful experience. So.

[Unknown Host]

So cool. So, yeah, it's so true. Like, I've done some prison ministry and some of those real deal believers, you know, in prison because it's their hope and they found that to be the truest thing about their life and their future. And yeah, you're ministered to. You're like, whoa, I needed to see that. You know, I. People have. Yeah. Perspective of that. Like, is there. It was like, no, it's so much deeper than that. On a spiritual level. That's so cool. I think one of the things that, like, people feel pressured in is. Is to, like, hurry up and do the record or hurry up and write the book, and hurry up. And it's like all these people in your 20s feeling like you have to, like, do all these things. And there's something so beautiful to letting life happen and letting God mature you and. And redeem things and heal you and then, like, actually have the story to share. So, like, time is not the enemy. Like, time is truly a gift and those things. And I felt like that recently because I've been doing what I'm doing since I was really young, you know, because my family's TV show happened when I was, like, 14. And then quickly, two years later, like, wrote my first book. I was, like, barely even 16. I don't even think I had turned 16 yet. I was 15 when I started writing it, and it just kind of, like, snowballed in a good way, but I just kept doing, doing, doing, doing. And then finally, like, it just caught up with me where I felt like anything that I, like, studied, I had to write. Anything that I read in the Bible, I had to, like, put out. And it got to the point where I was just feeling like, man, I'm empty. Like, I'm just like, it's just going ping, ping. And it's, like, not actually penetrating my heart. Like, I'm not meditating on it. And I felt like when I would sometimes read stuff I put out, I'm like, I don't even know that message. Like, because I didn't live it yet. I just wrote it. And finally, with this next book that I'm working on, I just told the editors and my book publishing team. I was like, I cannot have a timeline on this. And to say that to the publishing world, I'm sure you know this in the music world, like, that's a hard thing to say because they're always like, it's got to come out. It's got to happen. And they're great people, don't mean any harm by it. That's just the industry, right? And I was like, no. Like, I can't. And I was like, because I have to live life to have a story to share. Like, I have to live more life. And it's just been so cool I don't know why I feel teary, but I do, because, like this. I told my husband this literally yesterday. I was like, this is the first time in so long that I have been reading the Bible just for myself. And it has been the most, like, it's just been so good for muscle. It's been refreshing me in so many ways. I feel like I could write stuff, but I'm not going to because I don't have the time to right now. And that's okay because it's just for me right now and for my family and for my kids and for the person that I am. And it's just brought me my relationship with the Lord, like, so much deeper and so much closer. And so I think it's, like, so cool that you have had five years that were hard. Like, not neglecting the fact that that had to have been so hard to watch your dad, watching my grandparents go through Alzheimer's. And that's been so hard, hard years, but years to just be with the Lord before you. Like, your music is taking off now. And now it's so cool that the these words that are so true for you and true for those ladies in prison, y' all. My best health buddy, AG1, just leveled up big time. It is the same easy, one scoop a day routine we've always loved, but now it is totally upgraded with more advanced vitamins, minerals, and probiotics. And it's clinically backed. That's a pretty big deal, y' all. 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Or just one scoop of AG1 into a glass of cold water. It's just super, super easy, super simple. And that's why it's something that we've actually been able to stay committed to. So this next gen is an advanced formula. This is the perfect time to try AG1. If you haven't yet, or even if you've been drinking AG1 for years, this is a great time to up it again because they have the next gen. So I'm super happy to be partnered with them. Go ahead and subscribe today to try the gen of AG1. If you use my link, you'll also get a free bottle of AG D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, and five of the upgraded AG1 Travel Packs with your first order. So make sure to check out drink ag1.com. Whoa. To get started with AG1's next gen and notice the benefits for yourself, that's drink ag1.com. Whoo. Have resonated with millions of people. You know, it's a beautiful thing that we get to walk in. In relationship with God. So anyways, just had to kind of go down that rabbit.

[Jamie McDonald]

I love that.

[Unknown Host]

That spoke to me. I'm like, man, those. Those private moments or those hidden years are so valuable and people look over them so often.

[Jamie McDonald]

I love that.

[Unknown Host]

Man. There's so many places, so many things I want to ask you about your story that are so interesting to me. One is that you literally, like, became a believer and went to Africa. That in and of itself is so awesome because it seems like you just dove all in. Like, you were like, not a. Not necessarily a believer. You always kind of knew who God was, but not, you know, following God. And then all of a sudden you're like, okay, go to church. I believe this worship leading. Go to Africa. And I love the all in factor, because the truth is, like, a lot of people listen to this podcast, are a Christian, but they're still at the parties going, there's a plan A for my life, but I'll get there one day. You know, like, that's. That's a lot of people's story. That's a lot of people story right now. Listen to this podcast.

[Jamie McDonald]

Wow.

[Unknown Host]

How did you go from like, I know God, I know what I'm supposed to do. Like, what do you feel like inside? You went, okay, now I'm all in. I'm not gonna do this halfway. I'm not just gonna be a Christian and just go to church. Like, I'm like, 100%. What did that look like for you? And how Would you encourage other people in that middle zone?

[Jamie McDonald]

Well, for me, it was like I had lived most of my life in darkness, you know, And I had seen the power of darkness and the power of what the devil had been up to and destroying my life, you know. So by the time I tasted any bit of the light, I was just, like, all in on that. And I wanted nothing from my past. And I didn't change completely overnight. Like, there was still some habits and things that I had to work out. But the Lord was so kind and just, like, it was like, one thing at a time, you know, and he didn't rush me and didn't shame me for right where I was at. But it was like. Like when I was born again, like when I went under for getting baptized, like, when I came out. It's like that. You feel like that seed is planted, like, that spiritual seed where it's like, I'm a new creation and I'm starting as a baby now. And so it was just like I could feel that the spirit in me telling me, like, this isn't for you. And my desires changed. And, you know, I paid attention to that where it's like, you could do this, this, or you could give me this, and I'm going to take you higher. I'm going to take you to the next thing. And so it's just been a beautiful journey of, like, trading. Like, it's cool if you give me this, like, you know, and just lay things down and say, God, there's nothing I don't want to give you because my way sucked.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Jamie McDonald]

You know, and my flesh tempts me to, like, want to do the thing that destroys me. And so it was just like a. You know, sometimes I would choose the wrong thing, but then. Then the way I feel after is just like, okay, I learned by that. And, like, okay, I don't want that. Yeah, I actually want to choose life. And so just, like, it's taken so many years, but I do feel. I just love that feeling of, like, choosing life and having just, like, a clear conscience and, yes, a clean heart and then seeing him open up things in my life that I don't feel worthy of, but he's just like. Like, this is where I want to take you next, you know?

[Unknown Host]

And it's like, okay, so good. When people, you know, think about giving up sin, giving up addiction, giving up things of the flesh, you know, you think about how hard it's going to be, but then you don't often think about, like, the blessing on the Other side. Like a clear conscience. Like peace when you go to bed at night. Like a true healthy body of joy. Like a healthy body. Like, you know, the path of life that doesn't lead to death. You know, the path of life that leads to life, life. And I always, like, feel like sometimes as a church, it's just like, oh, don't do this. Don't do this. It was like, okay, yes, don't do that. But here's why. Like, look at the beauty of on the other side that you actually get to live in when you walk in the spirit. And to be completely honest, it's like, no, you're not going to be perfect, and that's okay. And it's not that you feel shame, you feel convicted. And what a gift that is to say, you're better than that. I'm going to get back on the right track now. I'm going to, you know, I deny my flesh. I'm going to pursue the spirit. And so I love that. I think that's beautiful. You know, your song Desperate is, like, blown up, and it's so good. Oh, my gosh.

[Jamie McDonald]

Thank you.

[Unknown Host]

First of all, your voice. Wow. But also just the words ring so true. And I feel like if those who are listening, who are huge fans of yours, would be like, you have to ask her about this song. So tell me about writing that song. Was it in the same season?

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah. So I had just. Just lost my dad about a year and a half or a year before that, and I moved back to Nashville. I had, like, a conversation going still with a couple record labels, not about me being an artist, but just I was doing a lot of, like, stuff for TV and film and doing, like, that's cool artist alias, like, singing songs that you would never think is me because it's not my actual artistry, but just, like, different things. Always, like, inspirational stuff that I would, like, stand by message wise.

[Unknown Host]

But that's cool.

[Jamie McDonald]

I was just. Just, you know, creating still and moved back to Nashville, and my record label now was like, hey, we're interested in signing you. And I was like, I'm really going through a lot right now. I just lost my dad. I'm coming out of, like, five years of isolation. You know, it just didn't feel like the time to step into the spotlight in any way for me. And I started just kind of taking it slow. I got into writing rooms, and I was writing every day of the week for about six months straight. But every time I showed up, you know, everyone's like, tell us who you are like, where are you at in life? And, oh, how exciting. Like, you're signing a record deal. And I'm just like, honestly, I'm so broken. And this is what I just went through. And, I mean, I don't. Hopefully I didn't tell him the whole story, because that's a lot. But just, like, you know, I'm just coming out of a crazy season and I'm grieving, and, you know, everybody was so kind, and they're just like, let's. Let's dive into that. Like, let's write about that. And some of them felt like counseling sessions where, you know, I'm crying. People are sharing wisdom, and we're getting songs that are so beautiful. But the day we wrote Desperate, I showed up in the studio, and it was a good friend of mine, Jonathan Gamble and Jordan Sapp. And Jonathan had an idea, and he said, I'd like to write a song called Desperate. And I was like, oof, I know how that feels. And it was just like, I could tell right from the beginning God wanted me to sing this song. And it's like a message that I had been living. And I felt like it was the words that I needed for so many years, living with my dad and taking care of him. And I was so the most desperate I'd ever been. And so it was so beautiful to finally be able to express how that felt. And it was the right timing. And Jonathan, actually, him and his wife weren't able to have a baby. And so that was kind of where the idea started with him just crying out to God for a miracle. And it was like, let's give people a tool to cry out to God with all their heart, you know, and to be bold before the throne. Like, this is what I need. And I'm not asking, I'm begging, you know? And so.

[Unknown Host]

And then backing it up with, like, who God is is so cool aspect of the song. Like, I know you can do this. That's why I'm begging you to do it. You know, it's so beautifully written, and you can tell you lived it. It's like that homeless man's advice to you. It's like you lived it, and so it holds weight when you sing it. It's so good. So you just went on your first tour.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

How fun was that?

[Jamie McDonald]

It was so fun. I was in two vans with a bunch of young dudes, and oh, my gosh, probably goes like a rite of passage, because I was like, okay, we're not sleeping, rarely showering.

[Unknown Host]

You gotta Start scrappy. You gotta start scrappy. You're not just starting by just being the first tour is always a little scrappy.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yes. And, you know, just like hotel rooms never know what you're gonna get. But it was so fun and really it just became like a family. And one cool thing is, like, people really kind of scare you about the music industry. Like, even before signing, just like hearing all these stories and, and it's like scared me a little bit. And even going on tour, it's like you hear stories about that too. Even Christian tours where it's like, oh, that's like my old life that I don't want, you know? But this tour was so pure and it was just like seeing the way these guys and even Seth Schleider, who was like the headliner for the tour, he. The way he led the team was just so pure. And God really showed me, like, what it could be rather than me just carrying all the. These like, stories and things that I was afraid of. Like, I guess I'll try to like, carry the weight spiritually. Like once when I have my own tour one day. Like, I might just have to be okay with people living, you know, a certain way. That was maybe my old life that I didn't want to be around. Like, I just thought I was going to have a lot of compromises. But after seeing this, I was just like, wow. Like, this was such a pure godly time and it was fun and we like laughed non stop, but it was just like, so fulfilling spiritually. And we prayed like so much together. They're just like, hey, let's all just pray and just like, really like, it was very cool. And yeah, God centered and everybody's heart was in it.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

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[Unknown Host]

And to be honest, like, that fear is, is so real in so many things. Like, I think about marriage. People scare you to death going into marriage. It's like, you get engaged, everybody's like, let me tell you how hard the first year is going to be.

[Jamie McDonald]

Right?

[Unknown Host]

Let me tell you how hard? You know, I'm like, I want to get married. Because it seems really scary and hard, obviously. Yes. But it's like, people warn you so much, you know, and then you have to realize, like, oh, it's my life. It's my marriage. It's based off my decisions. Like, I have a lot to do with how this turns out, you know? And so it was interesting for Christian and I because. Because our first year of marriage was actually great. Like, we enjoyed each other's company. We loved each other. Like, and then a couple years in, we went through something hard together, and that was, like, our harder year. And we know we'll have many other hard years, but we're like, okay. We also get to, like, make our own decisions and are in control of that. And God is God, and he's in our life, and we're following his path. So, like, just because it's that person's story doesn't mean it's our story. People do the same thing with having kids. Oh, when you have kids, your life is over. When you have kids, say goodbye to travel. Well, we have kids, and we travel everywhere with our kids, you know?

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Is it crazy? Yes. Is it sometimes embarrassing in airports, whenever. Both. Yes. You know, like, there is that, but it's like, you. You get to have control of that. My mom always would say you can only control you, you know, And. And that is, like, a beautiful aspect. You can't control what happens in life, but you can control the way you respond to your it. And to be honest, like, I never, ever, ever, ever, ever talk about this, because it's not even a big deal, but my first tour when I moved to Nashville, I was super young, and I'd signed with a company, and it was shocking because it was bad, and there was so much behind the scenes that I was like, oh, my gosh. I was just. I was devastated because I went into it wanting it to be pure, and I actually didn't even consider that it ever wouldn't have been. I didn't get the warning. No one told me. I wasn't around enough people to know I was too young, and I was from here, and I moved there and went into it, and I was like, oh, my gosh, is everybody. Like, this is how everybody thinks? And got a little scared of trusting people for a while, and then I realized, no, it's not the way everybody is. It's the way some people are. And it's very unfortunate, but it's not the way everybody is. And end. It's not the way you have to be, you know, And I had to restructure a lot of things and get out of that agreement and all the different things. But now the main comment people give every time they come to ELO conference and are backstage to say, this is the purest conference. And, like, just that word, pure. I'm like, oh, thank you, God. Like, it can be, you know, these things because that's who you are and that's who you are in us. And I just love that. And so, yeah, I think a lot of people, whether you're in an industry setting or just in life, people scare you about how life is going to be. You have to remember, okay, I serve the God who says, do not fear. I am with you, and I'm going to lead you and guide you and be your sustainer and your helper and your guide and your guard and all the different things. And so it's really, it's. It's good stuff. I want to ask you too, just what it's like leading over people. Like, you're leading people through testimonies. You know, what has that been like from the perspective of, like, at one point in your life, life needing to be led in worship now leading other people in worship. What's the joy in that?

[Jamie McDonald]

It's honestly been pretty intimidating just because I feel like if I would have waited till I felt ready, I never would have done it.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Jamie McDonald]

You know, and I've really just started telling my story in the past, maybe six months or so.

[Unknown Host]

Really?

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

I didn't know that. Yeah, it was, like, fresh.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah. Since releasing music and signing is when I really started sharing my story publicly.

[Unknown Host]

Wow.

[Jamie McDonald]

For the first time. So. So it's. It's been a healing journey for me. And what's cool is, like, I'm stepping in, being like. I don't know if I'm saying it right, and I don't always remember the timelines perfectly, and some of that's blurry because of the substance abuse. So, like, I'm like, is my story going to check out? Like, did I say this age? And then this age? I just, like, worry about a lot of the.

[Unknown Host]

That literally happens to me. When I first started speaking, my brother would be like, that's not how it happened. I'd be like, it's not how it happened. I actually thought that's how it happened. And then you're like, in your head because you just told so many people how it happened and someone corrected you.

[Jamie McDonald]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, yeah. I totally get that. And I Wasn't even substance abuse. That's just me being dumb. I'm like, that makes me feel better.

[Jamie McDonald]

Really?

[Unknown Host]

No. Grace and being human.

[Jamie McDonald]

Okay, good. But, yeah, it's more like the logistical. Like, am I a good communicator? And, like. But what God's been showing me in the past, even just since going on this tour, I'm getting here real feedback in real time because I'm sharing my testimony from stage. And people are coming up and they're not talking about my singing and my songs as much as they're saying, saying, thank you for sharing your story. That's the part that hit me. And, you know, my son was next to me and he was bawling and he never cries. Like, so it's like God keeps highlighting the story part. And that's where I feel like that's my weakest part. And so now I'm just excited to share because despite how weak I feel while trying to communicate and share because I don't have a high school diploma and all the reasons why I don't feel like you, I should be speaking God is just saying, I want to use that. Like, I want to use your weakness to show myself strong.

[Unknown Host]

That's so good. The enemy will be defeated by the blood of the lamb and the power of the testimony. And it is so true. And I can relate to you so much because I barely finished high school. I mean, truly, they should not look back at my records because maybe I shouldn't have had a diploma because it was such a crazy time in our family's life. And I was, like, homeschooled and. And it, like, half homeschool, half going to school at a worker's permit. It was so weird. And so I missed so much when I took my act. I remember going into the bathroom and my friend saying, I know for sure I missed three. And I said, I don't even think there's three. I knew, like, there's not three questions on there that I knew. Like, I was totally just guessing. Game, abcd, filling in, you know? So, like, I felt that for years when I started speaking, like, I'm not smart enough, enough, I'm not communicating well enough, I'm not good enough. All the different things. I remember I used to, like, make jokes all the time about me not really finishing high school very well and being dumb. And I would talk about being dyslexic and just, like, all my insecurities. And I would, like, make it funny, though. Like, I'd make it a joke. And finally, two of my friends. I said, hey, it's not funny when you say that. And I was like, it caught me off guard. I said, it's not funny whenever you make fun of yourself. Like, I know that you use that as kind of like a crutch. And these are two of my best friends. They had the right to say it. And I was like, yeah. I was like, you're right. It's not funny. And I'm like. And it's actually not funny to me either. I just do that because I'm insecure, you know? And I was like, I'm gonna stop doing that because I am not school smart. But, like, the Holy Spirit has filled me with wisdom, you know? And I love the Word, and I'm reading the Word, and I might not have gone to seminary school, and I might not know everything there is about it, but I can read it for what it is, is. And always think about is Apollos. And it says, like, he was teaching the Word, and all he knew about it was from John's baptism. And then it was like, Priscilla and Aquila, like, brought him in and they taught him a little bit more. And then he, like, kept teaching. And I feel like I can relate to that so much. He's like, he knew the testimony, and that's enough to preach. And they weren't shaming him, saying, like, hey, you're not smart enough. You're not good enough. They're like, hey, let me teach you a little more. And they, like, taught him a little more. And then he kept continuing to preach. And then Paul's over here going, hey, Apollos is, you know, planting the seeds. I'm watering the ground. Like, you know, they're. They're working together. And these are two guys who weren't, like, they had passed. They, you know, just. Apollos was young, but yet they had everything that they needed to preach the gospel because they were filled with the spirit. And that is you, friend. Like, you got this. And I always tell people this, too, whenever they're singing or telling their story. And it feels so vulnerable, like, to write a book or write a song or whatever. And you think, like, people are thinking about my voice, people are thinking about my song. People think about my words. And they're not. People are thinking about themselves in a good way. They're going, how can those words relate to me? How can the story relate to me? So they're not going, jamie, my gosh, what a story. Like, you're. You were crazy. They're like, oh, I'm. I live that way. I've lived that way. That's redemption, you know? And it's just so cool when you're able to give your life to God and get out of the way and let God use. Use your story for his kingdom. It's beautiful to see that awaken people in their own lives. And I was a fan of you before. I'm a bigger fan of you now. Thank you so much, Shirley, for sharing your story. I can't believe you've only been doing this, like, sharing your story for six months. You're a pro. You're seasoned, like, and just everything you're doing with your music cheering you on big time. Thanks so much.

[Jamie McDonald]

Thanks for having me. Me.