How I Learned to Lean on God After Sudden Loss | Sadie Robertson Huff | Alena Franklin

Summary

WHOA That's Good Podcast
Host: Sadie Robertson Huff
Guest: Alena Franklin
Episode: How I Learned to Lean on God After Sudden Loss
Date: October 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a heartfelt conversation between Sadie Robertson Huff and Alena Franklin, exploring Alena’s journey through grief after the sudden loss of her mother and the ways she learned to lean on God throughout her suffering. The discussion touches on the power of sisterhood, navigating public and private grief, the challenges and joys of marriage, spiritual identity, and Alena’s new devotional book, "God Is." Both women reflect on the importance of honest faith, community support, and the transformative authority that can emerge from suffering.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reconnecting & Early Memories

Timestamps: 02:07–04:04

• Sadie welcomes Alena, recalling how they first met years ago during their adolescence.
• Both reminisce about their early family connections and how those formative years shaped the women they’ve become.
  • “Your heart has always just been so pure, and the way that you have used your life and your voice has been so beautiful.” — Sadie (02:48)
  • Alena reflects: “That was an angsty, hard season of life... Sadie met the worst version of me.” (03:14)

2. The Story of Marriage and Relationship

Timestamps: 04:04–07:38

• Alena shares about her first year of marriage to Kaz, her childhood acquaintance, emphasizing the unexpected joy and peace they found together.
  • “A lot of people prepared us for marriage to be really hard...Our first year was the easiest, most peaceful, most fun.” — Alena (04:04)
• She describes the journey from friendship to love and the importance of letting her husband pursue her, while also giving permission for that pursuit.
  • “They need that permission [to pursue].” — Alena (05:52)

3. The Best Advice Alena Ever Received

Timestamps: 07:38–08:51

• Alena recounts her mother’s sudden passing and the immediate wise counsel from her aunt:
  • “Don’t be their mom, be their sister.” — Alena’s aunt (07:53)
• This advice transformed her relationship with her three younger sisters, helping her to focus on genuine friendship and lasting familial bonds rather than stepping into a surrogate mother role.

4. Navigating Grief as a Teen in the Public Eye

Timestamps: 10:38–12:49

• Alena details her experience of losing her mother just before high school and having to navigate grief publicly as a young actress and ministry kid.
  • “[Suffering] purifies us, but also it’s ugly. I think I grew very bitter and angry, especially towards the church.” — Alena (10:59)

5. Journeying Through Suffering and Learning to Trust God

Timestamps: 14:58–19:19

• Alena shares about singing publicly during her season of grief (performing “Rescue” by Lauren Daigle):
  • “I felt pressure to help other people in the midst of my needing help...I was simply walking in the authority of suffering.” — Alena (15:31)
• Discusses the spiritual concept of “walking in the authority of suffering” (16:09–16:40) and how suffering can eventually yield a ministry of comfort and testimony for others.
• Sadie affirms Alena’s journey, noting how her joy and authenticity now shine on social media and in her relationships.

Memorable Quote

“He’s given me the gift of walking in the authority of suffering, which just means that I’ve felt the things and I’ve done the things, and now I get to talk about Jesus in a way that has real weight.” — Alena (16:19)

6. How to Walk Alongside Others in Grief and Suffering

Timestamps: 19:19–20:19

• Alena emphasizes “presence and prayer” over words when supporting others through hardship:
  • “Presence is the most powerful part of all of it. Presence and prayer...They’ll remember that you were just there.” (19:19)

7. Marriage, Comfort, and Learning to Receive

Timestamps: 21:36–22:54

• Alena discusses how marriage has taught her to receive comfort, not just provide it:
  • “Men need you to need them....Allowing him to nurture me has been healing for me.” (21:36)
• Both women reflect on the biblical picture of comfort, dependency, and learning trust—from receiving love from a spouse to experiencing God’s provision as described by David.

8. Writing "God Is": A Devotional Born from Suffering

Timestamps: 26:51–38:40

• Alena shares her initial feelings of inadequacy and how stepping into writing about God’s character required both obedience and honest vulnerability.
  • “I was thinking of all the questions and pain points I had in the midst of suffering...Most of those questions actually pointed to a direct flaw in the way that I viewed God.” (28:33)
• Discusses why a grounded understanding of God’s character transforms identity and confidence, especially for young women.

Memorable Quote

“The answer to your question of who you are is actually who I am. And when you realize who I am, you’re gonna know who you are.” — Sadie (29:22)

9. Grief, God’s Trustworthiness, and Honest Faith

Timestamps: 33:35–35:07

• Alena shares the fears she had about God after her loss:
  • “Is God safe? Is God going to protect me? Is He trustworthy?” (33:35)
• Through God’s persistent pursuit, she finds assurance that God is trustworthy, urging others to bring their doubts honestly to Him.

10. The Legacy of "For Girls Like You" and Impact of Alena’s Mother

Timestamps: 38:46–42:38

• Story behind the magazine for girls created by Alena’s mom: originally written just for Alena, now impacting thousands after her mother’s passing.
  • “When she died, it blew up and it’s the biggest it’s ever been. You have no idea the seeds you’re planting and what God will do with those when you’re gone.” (39:36)
• Discussion of legacy, humble leadership, and the fulfillment of building something beyond oneself.

11. Writing for Teen Girls—But With Universal Truths

Timestamps: 43:26–44:08

• Though the book is marketed for teens, Alena notes responses from mothers and older women saying its lessons on God’s character transcend age.
  • “I realized that actually we’re all still, even after teenhood, trying to figure out who He is.” (43:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Alena on grief and advice:
  • “Don’t be their mom, be their sister.” (07:53)
• On authority of suffering:
  • “God has given me the gift of walking in the authority of suffering, which just means that I’ve felt the things and I’ve done the things, and now I get to talk about Jesus in a way that has real weight.” (16:19)
• On being present for others:
  • “Presence is the most powerful part of all of it. Presence and prayer...They’ll remember that you were just there.” (19:19)
• On identity and God’s character:
  • “The answer to your question of who you are is actually who I am. And when you realize who I am, you’re gonna know who you are.” - Sadie (29:22)
• On legacy:
  • "You have no idea the seeds you're planting, and what God will do with those when you're gone as well." (39:36)

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Timestamps & Important Segments

• 02:07 – Reintroducing Alena and their shared history
• 04:04 – Alena and Kaz’s relationship journey and marriage insights
• 07:38 – Best advice received at her mother’s death: “Be their sister, not their mom”
• 10:38 – Being a public figure while grieving as a teenager
• 14:58 – Singing and leading while grieving; “authority of suffering”
• 19:19 – How to support others in suffering: presence and prayer
• 21:36 – Marriage’s lessons in receiving comfort and healing
• 26:51 – Inspiration and process behind writing "God Is"
• 33:35 – Wrestling with fears about God after loss
• 38:46 – The legacy of Alena’s mom and the growth of "For Girls Like You"
• 43:26 – The relevance of Alena’s devotional for all generations

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On Navigating Social Media & Sisterhood

Timestamps: 48:44–53:45

• Alena views social media as a place for overflow, not validation, encouraging authenticity and real-life connection.
• On practical sisterhood:
  • “You love and you fight and you keep moving. That’s my favorite part of sisterhood...we need to just be soft enough to love and tough enough to not take it all personally and just keep moving.” (51:57)

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Final Reflections

This episode is filled with wisdom, vulnerability, and encouragement for anyone facing loss, struggling with identity, or seeking to deepen their understanding of God’s character. Alena models the power of honest faith, showing how God can redeem even the most painful parts of our stories for the benefit of others. Her journey is a testament to the healing found in community, presence, and knowing who God is.

Sadie’s closing words:
“You’re going to be amazed at how those things that you thought maybe you could never get over...start to all kind of fall into place when you understand who God is and he’s in the rightful place on the throne of your life.” (54:52)

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Episode Takeaway:
Lean in with honest questions, let others walk with you, and don’t discount the seeds of legacy you might be planting today. In suffering and in joy, God is trustworthy—and sisterhood, whether by birth or by faith, is one of His great gifts.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the world that's good podcast. Happy Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week. But friends, it is about to get so much better. We have an incredible guest on the podcast today. I actually got to meet her a long time ago when she was much younger. And now seeing the woman that she's become and just the things that she's doing is so, so incredible. She has a new book out called God Is. It's a devotional book. We have Alina Franklin on the podcast today, which is so cool to call you by your new last name.

[B]

I know, it's very fun.

[A]

It's crazy. How old were you whenever I met you? Do you remember that in the factory?

[B]

Oh, gosh. I was, like, in adolescence.

[A]

I was crazy.

[B]

Maybe like 15. Maybe 14 or 15.

[A]

That is wild. It's so cool for both of us. I was such a baby, too, whenever we met. But, like, man, your heart has always just been so pure, and the way that you have used your life and your voice has been so beautiful. I remember I met you with your dad, and even the way that he just, like the way he loved you and protected you during that season was just beautiful. So I'm glad I got to meet you then, and I'm glad I get to know you now.

[B]

I'm glad you get to know me now, too, because that was an angsty, hard season of life. And I'm like, sadie met the worst version of that was the worst version of me.

[A]

If that's the worst, then you are incredible. But I know that was a hard time, and we're going to talk about all that as we get into this podcast. I am so truly thankful that you came here, and I can't wait to have a conversation because you're someone I follow on Instagram, and I just am like, I love her. She's so cool. She's so cute. You and Kaz, your husband, are just the sweetest. And now I'm like, yes. Now we actually get to, like, be in the same room. It's so awesome. This is my also shout out shameless plug for everyone to go follow her on Instagram. You will not regret it. She's the influencer worth following. But tell me about life being married. Now tell me about you and Ca for everyone who doesn't know him. How'd y' all meet? The whole thing. We want to hear about the relationship.

[B]

Okay. Marriage has been amazing. We just hit one year, and it was the best year of my life, which I think a lot of people prepared us for marriage to be really hard. And I know that there will be seasons of that. Thankfully, our first year was the easiest, most peaceful, most fun. We went to probably. I think it was like seven or eight different countries.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Three or four different continents. Like, just throughout the whole year.

[A]

What continents did you go to?

[B]

We did Africa, we did Europe, we did Australia.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And, yeah, it was amazing. And the way that we met, we were, like, childhood friends. Not really. Our families are friends. And so we were like, you know, cousins. But not total, like, you know what I'm saying? When you've got those people that your families are around, but you don't really ever talk to him. I never talked to him because he was older, like, by three years, and so the time is very weird. But he was friends with my cousins, and so I knew of him, knew about him, always thought he was cute. Always, always, always. And then I moved to Nashville. He moved a couple years later, and during COVID we became really good friends for, like, a year. And I'm really thankful for that year of just, like, platonic friendship. I think it's helped us a lot in dating and then marriage. And then during a snowstorm in Nashville, I just was like, I can't take this anymore. Like, we're obviously secretly in love, and we need to, like, talk about this. And so I just confronted him, and I was like, can we talk about it? And so then I let him lead, and, you know, the rest is history.

[A]

See, I love this so much because, you know, girls are always like, is it okay if I make the first move? How to be pursued. And I actually think that there is something to giving a man, like, the confidence to pursue you. You know, like, he pursued you. I'm sure he led in the most beautiful ways when you. Whenever y' all were in a relationship. But there's something to, As a woman saying, like, hey, I'm interested.

[B]

Yeah, they need that permission.

[A]

You need that permission and even that confidence to. To pursue. So I love that you were like, okay, let's talk about it. And thank God for a snowstorm.

[B]

Well, thank God. Thank God for a snow, snowstorm. And, like, wise counsel, because I'm a bit. I'm even more confrontational than that. So I wanted to just, like, lead the whole thing. And women kind of, like, walked me through how to, you know, like, give him permission to lead and then let him lead. So thankfully, I had people around me that helped me do that.

[A]

Well, that's so cool. I love that. Kaz I've actually known for a long time Keziah. I love his name. Do you call him Kaz?

[B]

I call him Keziah and Zai.

[A]

I mean, that's a cool name. He should go back, because I always. Because that's such an epic name. But actually, when Ello Worship was first starting, he was doing the drums for us. So talented, crazy talented musician. And I always look back at that and think, that's so special that we got to know him during that season. Such an incredible man of God. And when I saw you two get together, I was like, this is powerhouse couple for the kingdom. I think everybody said that and probably thought that, but it was like, oh, my gosh, this is incredible. And it's one of those things whenever, like, someone like you and him are dating where you're like, please don't break up. And then when you get married, you're like, yes, it's such a win. It was awesome. Yeah. Well, like you mentioned, you have so much wise counsel around you. You really are surrounded by some of the most influential people in everybody's life. You know, who gets to watch from their platforms. But you are up close to all those people. You're family with those. Um, I'm interested to hear from you what the best piece of advice you've ever been given is, which is our Question the Boat podcast. But I'm sure you've gotten so much good advice over the years, it might be hard to narrow that one down.

[B]

Yeah, anytime I think of the best advice I've gotten, I think of, like, one of the hardest moments of my life and one of the wisest people in my life and that colliding and like, I really think changing, changing the trajectory of my life in ways that I probably won't realize until heaven. But I was in the hospital, my mom died. And in 2018, super sudden, like within an hour she was there and then she wasn't. And I didn't even make it to the hospital before she was gone. And so I'm, you know, we're all on our knees devastated, and my aunt comes up to me and as I just like, ball into her arms, sob uncontrollably, she just whispers in my ear, don't be their mom, be their sister. And I have three sisters and I'm the oldest. And naturally I'm a caretaker. And like, I just go in and I love people really hard that I care about. But her advice to me, I think, like, really changed and shaped my friendship with my sisters to where now we've just got this tight knit bond that I think if I had stepped into the motherly role and tried to, like, solve all of their issues and be strong for them, I don't think we would have as genuine as a friendship as we all do. And so that's probably. It's definitely the greatest piece of advice I've been given.

[A]

Wow, that is like, so cool that in that moment, someone came up and said that. Because I feel like in that moment, you never know what to say, you know, in those moments. And the fact that someone had such a word, I mean, that's truly from the Lord. It's really cool to hear you say that, because in a completely different context, the Lord gave me a similar word in a completely different time of my life. Whenever I was like, God, what is my purpose? And what do you have for me? And how do I go about using fame for your glory and all this kind of stuff? I felt like the Lord tell me, uh, I'm not calling you to be famous. I'm calling you to be a sister and a friend to those who don't have one. That's why my podcast on Mondays is called Sisters and Friends. That's why lo converse called hello sister. We have sister all over these walls. And why I always kind of keep that at the forefront of my mind is because a sister is something that, like, I know I can be. It's something that doesn't take. You know, you don't have to be the character. You just get to be a sister. You get to be a friend. You get to be who God called you to be in its fullness without the pressure of anything else. You can laugh, you can cry, you can dance, you can sing without wondering, what is that person thinking? Because they're your sister. You know, there's just so much freedom in it. And so the fact that the word sister brought, like, you. Freedom to just be and not to have to pull it all together, even lead your younger siblings, which I'm sure you did by nature and naturally, but, like, took that off, is just really, really cool. It's very beautiful. I want to talk about that time because it. I guess it probably wasn't long after that that I did meet you. So that probably, you know, like, probably.

[B]

A year, maybe a little less. Yeah.

[A]

That's wild. So you were going into high school when that. When that happened.

[B]

Ninth grade.

[A]

Wow. And I think one thing that kind of always stood out to me that was interesting is, like, you had to navigate that very publicly. I know your life was public before you were in war room and acting and those kind of things, but what was that like for you, being so young and having such a public platform with the hardest thing that has happened?

[B]

Yeah. Far from easy. I think death is hard. And then navigating death in the public eye is hard because it's just, like, it's going to be the worst version of you. Like, you're going through some of the hardest things you'll ever go through. Suffering is naturally. It's. You know, it purifies us, but also it's ugly. Like, the process is very ugly. And so I just kind of. I think I grew very. And also, being a teenager is already super angsty. And so that's the. The best word I can think of is angsty. Like, this once pure and, like, just really. I think gentle and joyful girl had, like, just been stripped of, like, the things that made her who she is. And so I just grew kind of bitter and angry, especially towards the church. Growing up in, like, ministry, and those people mean really well. And also, I think, as the church, we're not totally sure how to walk with people through suffering. And so. And we're human, and so people make mistakes and do the wrong things. And so I just. I think I lost sight of grace in that season. And also, I think God was taking me on a much deeper, like, you know, journey inside that. I think I'm close to the other side of now, but in the thick of it. I'm like. I remember very little. Just that, like, God was with me through the whole thing, and that the people I lived in Franklin at the time, the people of Franklin, are incredible and the most loving and kind and generous humans ever. And looking back, I can see that in the moment, I was like, I am being smothered by nice Southern people. I just moved from Dallas. It was all very different. And looking back, I'm really, really thankful for those people. I think they made that whole transition and just grief a lot easier in ways that I don't recognize till now.

[A]

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[B]

I used to sing that song, Rescue. Okay, it could have been.

[A]

It wasn't Church of the City. I remember seeing you. Yeah. Seeing Rescue.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Like, that is an incredibly brave, bold thing to do. I don't know if you naturally sing, if you'd always sung, if that wasn't so bold and crazy, but, like, okay, you. It's one thing to be put in the public eye and you can't help it, but it's another thing to, like, put yourself in the front, you know? Like, you're like, I'm willing to sing this song knowing people know my story. People. So, like, what was God teaching you during that time of prompting you to do those very public things? Did you want to. Was it a wrestle? I'm just so interested in that.

[B]

Yeah, I think it was a wrestle. I think parts of me have wrestled with the fact that it didn't feel all the way optional, like, being who I am, I felt pressure to, like, help other people in the midst of my needing help. And at the same time, what I realize now is that I was simply walking in the authority of suffering, which is, like, to invite other people into this thing that they're also experiencing and into, like, you know, relationship with God, and so both can exist. I feel exposed and exploited and don't want to be up here. And at the same time, I'm watching God do much more than I could imagine with this part of my story that I would rather not have.

[A]

Wow. Walking the authority of suffering.

[B]

Can we listen? I just heard a sermon on that from Ephesians.

[A]

Walk that out for a second.

[B]

The authority of suffering.

[A]

I've never even heard of that.

[B]

Yeah, she said it. And I was like, everything came together like the book. Everything that I've done has been because I've been able to. God has given me the gift of walking in the authority of suffering, which just means that I've felt the things and I've done the things, and now I get to talk about Jesus in a way that, like, has real, you.

[A]

Know, like, without that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Wow, that is good. Okay. Because there's so many people listening to this who might know you, might not know you, but maybe because they heard of your story, they want to listen to this podcast. Maybe they're dealing with suffering. Maybe they've experienced a loss. I. I think that that is going to give so much hope to people to know that, like, you don't. Suffering doesn't just have to be something. And this is interesting. I'm navigating the wording of this because I literally talked to a mentor about this yesterday of, like, you don't just have to keep taking hits from the enemy and being the person who suffers. Like, at some point, something's got to switch and you take the authority over it. And I think a lot of times, like, when we say spiritual warfare is happening, it's like, for me, I tend to just, like, let myself get beat up, and it's like, no, you have a thing authority. Like, you fight back. You've been given spiritual weapons. You've, you know, you've walked with the Lord enough to stand on it. And so I think it's so encouraging to hear you say, like, yeah, that was an angsty girl. That girl was struggling as you should have been. You just lost your mom. Yes, you were angst. Yes, you were struggling. Yes, all those things. Yes, it Felt like the worst version of yourself, but you're like, but now I'm this girl and I walk in. The authority of suffering doesn't mean it's still not hard. Doesn't mean there's still not hard things that come with that. Doesn't mean I even want this platform or asked for this platform. But this is what the Lord has walked with me through, and this is how I can speak into it now. I just feel like that is like so much hope for people out there who are in the, the grip of it and thinking, am I ever going to find a boldness again? Am I ever going to find that joy again? That laughter how you talked about, you know, you were kind of this pure, joyful girl and then you went through something really hard, but you're finding that again. And that's so cool to like, allow people to see. I mean, I think about following your journey just on social media. Like, when I look at your social media page, I see genuine joy, like love and this friendship that you have with your husband and adventure. And it's like, that's so cool to know that that's possible on the other side of suffering and through the suffering. It's beautiful. So inspired by you. You mentioned that the church doesn't always know how to walk through suffering. Well, and I agree with you. I, I, I totally agree. They think people don't know how to do it. Looking back at that, what do you wish, how do you wish people helped? You know what I mean? Like, because there are people out there who might have friends who are walking through suffering. Like, what's the best way? I guess, if you will. And I know these are messy conversations. There's not like a right way always. But what, what did you see in that time ago that was so helpful? Like, I remember that person loving on me in this way.

[B]

Yeah. I want to tread very carefully because I feel very passionately about God's people and that, like, they genuinely mean the best. And so, like, I'm so thankful for the people of God who surrounded me and did what they knew how to do with what they had. I think what I've learned, even as I walk with my sisters through suffering and walk through friends now in, like, the thick of suffering, is that presence is the most powerful part of all of it. Like presence and prayer. Your prayers will go way farther than any word that you have for the person who's like, trauma stricken and won't remember anything you said anyways. And then presence, I think, is what they'll Remember that? You were just there. You were one call away. You were sitting next to them when they got the call. You know, like, I think those things are really important, and it actually has less to do with what we say. It's just that, like, presence of prayer, knowing that them. Knowing that you're praying for them and that you're genuinely there and you're not afraid to walk in the mud with them. I think those are really powerful. The two P's.

[A]

The two P's, Yeah. I love it. Two P's in a pod. I love it. That's really good advice, Fred. You know, I was listening to several of your interviews, just preparing for you to come on the podcast, and I loved one of the things that I heard you say about what marriage has taught you. And you were talking about. Do you remember?

[B]

I'm like, what did I say?

[A]

I know. I'm like, I know too much about you. But no, One of my favorite things is getting to prep for podcasts of guests like you who come on because I get so blessed and strengthened by studying your life. Life. And this morning, getting to watch interviews you've done. I'm like, man, I'm filled up. This girl. You just. Wisdom flows out of you. It's an overflow of your heart, you know, from the hearts of the mouth shall speak. And you can tell your heart has been with the Lord. But you said what it has taught you, and what has been a beautiful thing in marriage is that taught you, like, how to be comforted. Like, it's taught you how to be comforted. And you said it in a much more beautiful way. But kind of that idea that you were talking about of how you naturally want to do that for others, and you take on that, like, nurture, comforter. But, like, now you're in a season where, like, you get to be comforted and nurtured. Speak into that a little bit. And, like, the. I don't know, like, how powerful that's been for you to walk through a marriage. And was that, like, a hard thing for you? Because it was new.

[B]

Yeah, I've been married a year, so I actually have no idea what I'm talking about. The same mentor that, or It's Crystal, you know, Crystal Evans. Crystal Evans, prison sister. She's the one who told me to be my sister's sister and not their mom. And then also she told me, men need you to need them. And I heard it, and I was just like, that's so. Like, it sounds, I don't know, kind of demeaning. Like, why do they need to be needed? And also, I'm confused. I'm, like, from a girl power household, you know, so I've just always done things on my own. And then I, as I got married and, like, started living with a man, I realized, oh, when I don't allow him to love me and nurture me in the ways that he sees fit, I'm stripping him of his mascul. Masculinity and ability to, like, be my husband. And I think that's probably universal, like, for friendships. Like, we're stripping our friends of the ability to be our, like, a true friend when we don't allow them to help us. And so I think it's more universal. But specifically in marriage, allowing him to nurture me has been healing for me. Like, I always talk about being passenger princess and all these things that I get to experience now that I'm married. Like, as an oldest child, I never got to, like, you know, just be. Yeah, be the baby. So now I get to be the baby sometimes. And it's so freeing and healing for me has made me softer. Absolutely. And taught me how to be a better nurturer and lover of people.

[A]

That's so cool. I love that so much. I was thinking about that last night because I have a little bitty baby, and she's two months old and totally dependent on me for everything, which is, like, the sweetest thing ever. And you get to experience just so much of God's creation, like, you never have, you know, whenever you're nurturing a child. And so yesterday she was having a rough day. She has, you know, reflux and the whole thing, and she was crying a lot. So I held her, like, all day. And I wasn't planning on her bringing her to spaces that I did bring her to because I'm just now back to work. But I was like, forget it. I'm bringing her. Like, she needs her mama, and I'm also still nursing her. So it was like, the whole thing. So anyways, I held her all day long. Like, by the time I laid her in bed, like, my arms were sore. Then I went and got in bed, and I laid in my husband's arms. And I was like, oh, this is so cool. Like, I've held someone all day. My baby, and now, like, he's holding me. And, like, ultimately, that teaches you that, like, God and God carries him and us and all of us in those moments. And it's just been so beautiful as I've been, like, reading scripture and, you know, you read scripture differently, like, when you're going through certain seasons, and some verses that would have never stuck out to you in the past are now sticking out to you. And there's a verse that David talks about how he. At his mother's breast, he learned to trust the Lord. And it's talking about how, like, whenever he was an infant and he, you know, was dependent on his mother for food, but every time, like, he needed it, he had it. And that's how he, like, learned to trust the Lord. So you start to see these things about God that, like, you didn't realize until now. You're in this situation, and you're like, wow, like, she's learning trust right now in me. And hopefully later in life, she'll know to trust the Lord that when she needs something, it will be provided from him. It's amazing. And. And I think in, like, it's so cool to see, you know, you writing a book and the character of God based off the things you've walked through in life and learning, like, what the true characteristics are of him versus what you thought they were of him. So I'm so excited to get into the idea of this book and what God taught you. You know how life just kind of shifts whenever fall rolls around. The weather's changing, the vibes change, and suddenly your schedule is packed again. Back to school, church events, holidays, creeping in. It is a whole thing. So, yeah, this season is cozy, but can also be a little chaotic. And that's why element is part of my daily rhythm. It is a zero sugar electrolyte drink mix or sparkling water that helps me stay on top of everything. I'm talking energy focus, fewer headaches, less of that foggy feeling, all the things. And listen, electrolytes aren't just for people running marathons. If you are breathing and doing life, your body needs them, especially in a busy season. Like this one. Element helps me feel good without any of the sugar or artificial stuff and other electrolyte drinks. Plus, it comes in stick packs and cans, so I'm never without it, y'. All. It's so easy to carry around. There are so many awesome flavors. I probably couldn't just pick one. Let me tell you, Christian is actually obsessed with their sparkling drinks. So, like, the black cherry lime sparkling one is his favorite. Like, he does not share them. They are his favorite. And I can't get enough of the watermelon salt or my summer lemonade flavor. I would not let Christian touch that. So, yeah, we're stingy with our element because we love them and it makes us feel so much better. I used to drink different electrolyte drink mixes, and they have a lot of sugar in them and whatnot. And it's just so nice that this one doesn't have any of that, but it still gives you that pick me up. It's still sweet and I love the taste. So get your free Element sample pack with any [e-mail]. whoa. Try element Totally risk free. If you don't like it, they'll refund your order, no questions asked. That's drinkelemenT-R-I n k l M-N-T.com Whoa. First of all, why did you want to write a devotional book? Because that's a big thing to take on. I know you have a lot of authors around you, but did you feel ready for it? Were you excited for it? Nervous?

[B]

It was one of the first things I've ever felt, like, totally not equipped and capable of, which, like, naturally makes me want to just lean in and do it. And also is, like, a reminder to me, oh, this must be, like, something God wants me to do. Like, sometimes, yeah, we're totally out of our depths and we should have no business doing something. And other times, there's, like, a warfare part of that where it's like, the enemy doesn't want you to know that, like, you have authority over this and can talk about this and write about it. And so, honestly, it happened how most things happen in my life. Like, an opportunity comes up and I just say yes. And so I got the opportunity and I said yes. And then I was like, what the heck am I doing talking about the character of God? I haven't gone to seminary. I haven't done any of the things that I feel like I would need to do to talk about this. And yet I did it.

[A]

And so I think that's what makes it something that's so accessible and trustworthy, because it's coming from, like, a true, authentic place. It's like, not that it's not. If you go to seminary, gosh, we need all of that. But it's also refreshing to be like, hey, I'm a girl too, and I go through life and life is hard, and I want to understand who God really is. Because. Because if you don't know who God is, it makes life very, very complicated. You don't know who you are. You don't know what your purpose is. You know what anything is. And so I. I think it's amazing that you where you're at with what you have and the knowledge you have going, you know, I have enough to talk about who God is in the best way that I understand him to be. Did you, like, even with the intimidation of talking about the character of God, how did you even begin the process of that? Is it something that, as you were writing, you were, like, coming to it, or were you, like, looking back at the last seven years since what you went through and going, okay, this is what I learned in that time.

[B]

Yeah. I was actually, like, thinking of all the questions and, like, pain points that I had in the midst of suffering. I wanted to talk directly to the human experience, which I think is filled with hard stuff. And that's when we tend to, like, search for answers and ask questions. And so I just look back at when I was 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, what were the questions that I had about life? And then most of those questions actually pointed to a direct flaw in the way that I viewed God. So when I thought about, am I beautiful or am I smart or, like, all these me questions, that actually just stems from not knowing my creator and how he made me. And so then I quickly realized, oh, I don't want to write a book on identity. I want to write a book on who God is. And then all the answers to, like.

[A]

Because that actually is a book on identity.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it's the missing piece in the identity conversation that I think just changes the game, you know, I agree.

[A]

One of my favorite scriptures is whenever, you know, they're asking Jesus, or when Jesus is saying, like, who do people say that I am? You know, and then they're saying, well, some say you're this. And then he says, who do you say that I am? And then when Peter tells Jesus, like, you are the Messiah, you are the Christ. And then immediately after, Jesus looks at Peter and says, and you are Peter, and on this rock, I'll build my church. And it's like the minute Peter realizes who Jesus is and confesses that he then, in return, gets told who he is. And you see that even with, like, Moses, I think about when Moses standing by the bush and God's speaking to him, and Moses is like, who am I that I could go do this? And God's like, I am who I am. You know, like, the answer to your question of who you are is actually who I am. And when you realize who I am, you're gonna know who you are. And so I love that in that process of going, okay, I need to answer this question about me. How do I Know I'm beautiful. How do I know this? It's like, actually no, if I start talking about who God is, all of this is gonna be resolved, all of this is gonna be figured out. And you're right. Especially in those teenage years, I think we spend so much time trying to like, figure out how to be confident, how to answer these questions about me. But truly, if you start studying the characteristics of God, your creator, it all starts making sense. Like all those things that you thought, I'll never be able to believe I'm beautiful, you actually do because you feel treasured in love.

[B]

Then it becomes so much smaller. If I'm looking up all of a sudden, this body that I just get to steward for, you know, hopefully 80 plus years, like that's not a big deal. It's not even a huge important thing when you, when you look at who God actually is. So I was also just like, it was so anxiety easing or just like peaceful realizing that it actually wasn't even about me. Like this whole thing had nothing to do. I just get to be a vessel.

[A]

And so good, you know, I love that. I can relate so much. I remember as a teenager just feeling really insecure about who I am, body, all of that kind of stuff. And I'm so thankful that my relationship with the Lord changed that like I can actually say I'm confident in who I am and because it doesn't really matter that much, it's like just of the least of importance of, you know, what I look like compared to what God's called me to do. But it was really cool because the other day I was talking to my sister in law, we were at the beach and was like eight weeks postpartum, you know, from a C section. So like, you know, you're not looking your best. Okay. And it was funny. She's like, how are you feeling? You know, with everything. And I said, I wish every girl could experience like what I've been experiencing lately and how confident I feel in my body and how proud I feel and how much like how thankful I am. It's like I have so much gratitude for what my body just did because it got to carry this baby that I love with everything in me and it's nurturing her and nourishing her and like I could just go on and on and I'm so thankful. And I just feel like that perspective of gratitude has changed so much of how I've seen myself and appreciate myself, the way I speak to myself, because I'm like, I, I will not Let myself talk down on like the creation that like that God created. And that's not to say there aren't hard moments and there's not moments where I'm like, oh, I wish this or that. But truly and genuinely I was like, I wish every girl could feel this way that I feel right now. And I would have never thought like my 18 year old self if she was like looking at my 20 year old self and just looking at the body after a C section. Like I don't know that she would have had that relationship enough with the Lord to say the words that I'm saying. You know, it would have been so much more superficial, so much more surface level, visual based. But like I'm so thankful I'm not in that state anymore. And that 100% comes from knowing who God is and being grateful for who he is. Talk to me about some of those things that, you know, obviously we can talk about insecurities and looks, but maybe there were some of those things that were bigger questions that you might have had wrong about who God is. We're talking about suffering. Were there things that you thought about God that as you begin to study him, you just realize you were wrong in?

[B]

Yeah, I think I was afraid of God. I still am sometimes. And it's not like that healthy fear like I respect him. It's like, no, I'm actually like afraid of you. And like just have this feeling that you're going to punish me, that you hate me, that you're not going to protect me if I don't do all the things correct. And I think a part of that stemmed from, yeah, life all of a sudden being turned completely upside down and going, I thought this God was supposed to be here to protect me and, and watch over me and care for me and all the things. And so I think that was one of my greatest questions. Was, is God safe? Like is God going to protect me? Is he trustworthy? And I quickly, well, not quickly, it took me a while, but he quickly came to my rescue and showed me that he was trustworthy and safe. And a part of that was just that as I rejected him, he continued to pursue me just like relentlessly and with love. Like with love and mercy, love and mercy, love and mercy, over and over. And so I got to just experience his trustworthiness. Even in like walking through marriage every season of my life. He's showed up and he's showed up just on time and just the right way with just the right pace, like proving himself trustworthy and so I don't know. I love that, I love that we can, and I don't think many of us know this, that we can like go to God with our questions and our concerns and some of our sins. Like God, I don't like you. Like, we can go to him with that. And it doesn't scare him, it doesn't frighten him. I think he just like gets excited at the, at the thought that we're going to be honest with him and he, we're gonna let him come over us and show us who he actually is.

[A]

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[B]

It's a huge part of why I wanted to write God as a devotional was because I wanted to. Like, one. You don't have to go to seminary to understand the basics of who God is that we so often get confused about. And, like, he's very approachable, very understanding, understandable. Although he is a mystery, he's also like, like, we can come. He's a friend. We can understand him. And so I was. As I was writing it, I was like, what's really important? And I didn't realize this until after the book, but I was big on the knowledge part. Like, his scripture tells of who he is all over. And so the. The book is scripture filled. And then what I realized later is, yes, it's scripture filled, but also because I wrote it, it's experience filled. And so it's filled with stories of my own personal life. And, like, the experiences I've had with God and knowledge and experience, I think, are those both aid in our faith. And there, like, this perfect combination of them. Like, it's one thing to read Ephesians, it's another thing to live it out and then to get to read about it and hopefully be encouraged and inspired by somebody's personal experience, you know, of Ephesians 3 or whatever. That's why I wrote it, because I was like, I want people to be interested in what God has to say in his Word that is alive. And because it's alive, I've experienced parts of it.

[A]

Wow, that's good. I love that. One thing that I think is really cool, because y' all have the magazine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Remind me the name of it for girls like you. For girls like you. And your mom started that, right? Really for you? Yes. Tell me about that.

[B]

I was an avid reader in, like, kindergarten, so you could like, you know, readers were A to Z when they used to, like, grade us that way. And I was at a Z, so I was just picking up adult books and reading them in kindergarten, which can get you in trouble. So I'd bring something home and my mom would be like, what is that? Like, why are you reading that? And so she quickly was just like, okay, we need to figure out how to like, give this girl something to read that's not Cat in the Hat. And also, like, it needs to be, you know, fueling for her faith. And I, she just saw something in me really early on because she's my mom and I think she probably had whispers from God about what he would want me to do. And so she just started writing this, like, magazine that was just for me. So she would just write, you know, sophisticated things that I could read and in such a way.

[A]

Oh my gosh, that's so cool.

[B]

Yeah. And then I started, I think, handing it out to my friends and it became a whole thing. And then she pretty quickly felt like, called to just make a. A big thing. And so now it's called for girls like you F O r girls like you. Also. She had four girls F O U R. But yeah, when she died, it like blew up and it's the biggest it's ever been. So it's also really cool to see that legacy of like, you have no idea the seeds that you're planning and like, what God will do with those when you're gone as well.

[A]

Oh, I always say that someone actually today, this morning, I had a friend sitting at the house and she was like, sadie, what's your dream? Like, what's something you dream about that you're not doing now that maybe it's like a 30 year old, I mean like your 30 year old dream or your 40 year old dream. Like, what's your. What are you dreaming towards? I was like, honestly, like, I just want. I hope and want and I'm pursuing. I want ello, the ministry of it to be like so much bigger than me. Like, I could walk away if I needed to and it just, it doesn't need me at all. It is a women's ministry that like every single person comes to and is blessed by and sees themselves and in a community that they fit in and always say it's like sisters who are studying the Word together. Who are in community together. And I was like, and we're finally, like, doing that. And I was like, but in the future, like, I hope whenever I'm older, I'm, like, still seeing all these elo, local Bible studies happening around the world, and Ella worship songs being sung and all this stuff, because it's something that I needed when I was in high school, you know, it's something that I want to build for my girls. It's the legacy thing. So I don't just want this to be like, oh, it's a thing I'm doing now. One day it might not happen. Like, no, it's a thing I'm doing now, and one day I might not be as a part of it, but, like, I hope that the seeds that we're sowing are actually, like, flourishing to something beautiful, and people actually have a stronger relationship with the Lord and a stronger community with friends and all that different stuff. So I was like, the dream is that, like, what I'm doing is fruitful, you know, that it's like, it has much more purpose than just these little moments or things. And so your mom did that. Like, she was sewing seeds and doing something that was so fruitful. And, like, even though she's honored to be with the Lord, she's still building the kingdom on her with the things she put her hands to. And now her legacy, her daughter's doing it. I mean, that's incredible. That's so cool.

[B]

She had written in her journal. I might butcher the words, but I think if it's either a few months or two years, I can't remember before she died, she had written in her journal, like, God, I'm. I'm tired, and I don't want to do. I don't necessarily want to continue to be the face of girls like you, but I don't know what to do with it. Like, I just give it to you, and you do whatever. And then it's weird. Like, God is a mystery because then she dies and it blows up and literally does its own thing without her needing to be there. And so, I don't know.

[A]

It.

[B]

It makes me think about, like, the state of our. Our world at the moment. And, like, culturally, I think we all want to be the face of things. And it's actually so much more fulfilling to just do what God has asked us to do.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Hand it. Hand the baton to the next person. Like, there's something really fulfilling about that.

[A]

That's what Christine Kane's like. If you build the platform, then you gotta Keep the platform in the sense of like, there's so much pressure. And it. That's why I'm like. And I've realized that more now, becoming a mom, because I've had to step away in seasons to be a mom. And I'm like, but I so believe in what God put on my heart to do that is to, you know, be a sister and a friend. But it's not just for me to do that. It's for girls to do that for sisterhood. Because I think about whenever I was 17 and I was lonely, I didn't have a lot of friends and friends were hard and I didn't know who God was and all that stuff. And I see you doing the same thing. It's looking at your younger self saying like, okay, this is what I needed. This is what I was wrestling with and doing that. Yeah, I know you have a heart for probably all women, but this feels. It says for teen girls. Is that because this is what you needed during that time or this is what you were wrestling with?

[B]

I still struggle. I. We all, me and the publishers were talking about the fact that it needs to say for teen girls and young women because I wrote it with myself in mind. So, yeah, an 18 year old, 19 year old, 20 year old. But what's been really cool is, is since it's released, there's like, it's kind of transcended generations. And so there's older women reading it, young moms reading it with their, like, little girls, there's teens reading it, there's college age girls reading it. But it says teen girls, I think, because when I thought in my head about just like, what version of me needed to know who God was the most, it was that. And then I realized that actually we're all still, even after teenhood, trying to figure out who he is.

[A]

Like, the way publishing works is you have to go into like, categories. Yes. And for me, because, yeah, I'll just say that because for me, I wrestled with the same thing. You remind me so much of myself and I'm like, oh, I just love learning from you and hearing what your journey's been.

[B]

So good, so good, so good.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. Big Gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. But I. Most of my beginning books were all like teen books in the teen division. Then I was like, we gotta get out of the teen division. Even though I know I'm young and I know these are simple things, but like, everybody needs this truth. And it's hard for like someone older to say, like, oh, I'm going to buy a teen book for myself, so like, can we take out the teen? Cuz everybody needs to know who God is. And so I know it's for everybody because everybody needs that lesson and everybody needs that wisdom. And so, yeah, I was just curious about that. And I love that you guys are carrying on the legacy, what your mom is doing. And I love that it's bigger than it's ever been. I pray that it continues to multiply and reach young women, because that is so needed. It's so cool to think about you as a little kindergartner reading these like massive books.

[B]

Scandalous, bad stuff that I had no idea it was bad.

[A]

That's crazy because for me, whenever I was five years old, it's literally, we have videos of me, like preaching on the countertop and doing this stuff. When you look back at your young self, are you shocked by how much of that little person you see in you now?

[B]

Absolutely. I'm like, somehow I've always just been like. I don't even know how to explain it, but like, maybe it's not even a performer, but I just love talking to people and sharing about. What I didn't know is that the passion would be about God. But I knew that I love talking to people and like teaching them things something. And now that I know Jesus, I'm like, oh, this is it. Like, I want to talk about God.

[A]

That is exactly how I was. Because I was like, in front of people, felt natural. In front of a camera felt, you know, and that goes from whenever I was young. There's so many videos. Like my brother, he, you know, like, you would get in the door way and like climb up the. The door. Did you ever do that? And he would hold a blanket behind me and that was my stage. And I would get in front of it and like talk. And you just see him like awkwardly in the door, like holding the little thing. That's amazing. And it's so funny. But it's like I always did that. But then when I got in high school, I started getting nervous around people. Insecure, anxiety, the whole thing. And then whenever I had like a true encounter with the Lord, it was like that young person was reignited because I was like, like, oh, now that I am passionate about the Lord and I can talk about Jesus, like, I'm not scared anymore because I got myself out of the way, you know? And so I do think that it's beneficial for everyone to look back at who you were when you were young and, like, kind of naive and pure hearted and didn't know anything about what to fear. And you're like, okay, how do I get back to, like, what God made me to be, what he originally put in me, and then use it for good? It's like, okay, I was in kindergarten reading some crazy books, but, like, now, like, let me tap into that. I'm going to write a book, because I have. Because you're kind of like an old soul in, in a really sweet way. All these wisdom, all this wisdom, all this knowledge and reading certainly gives you a lot of that. And now, how can I put it out there to the world? Your Instagram captions are so good too, by the way. I love following your Instagram. Yes, y' all are so cute. I love following the adventures. But your captions are so good. You can tell. You always keep your follower in mind. You're always trying to help other people with what you walk through. And I get what you said earlier. You're like, you didn't necessarily want to lead through your suffering. Sometimes you just wish you could just be in it. And sometimes I feel that way with, like, I'm like, you know, in the past, I've been like, okay, this is a lot to, like, be leading while I'm also learning so much. It's very humbling, but I think it's such a gift to the world that you put yourself out there in the midst of that. And it's also something that, like, God put on your life, you know, to get to do. And it's hard, but it's like, beautiful that you've stepped in and, like, accepted that. And not just accepted it, but, like, owned it and led with it. I'll just ask you this when you think about social media, because I think so many people are trying to navigate how to use social media as a young person. How do you approach social media?

[B]

I don't. And that's the problem. I'm never on it. I post when I feel things and then when I don't, I have a very, like. Even with promoting the book, it's been hard because. Because I'm not always just talking on my stories and showing up every day. To post and I felt like very, just like God sees me and encouraged to just stay me. Which just means you show up when you show up and when you don't.

[A]

You come up wholeheartedly.

[B]

He'll do the rest. But yeah, I've probably maintained. I know that social media is problematic for a lot of people and it's been a whole thing the past, I mean, honestly, four, eight years, whatever, it's been a lot on there. But my fear is still like funny and you know, just chill and I just like looking at my friends and yeah, so I love it for that. And I also think it's really important to just maintain actual real life connection, which we're all being preached that now, you know, years after it's been, you know, created and kind of taken over. But yeah, I like to try and maintain real life and then show up with like the good stuff and I'll post about the bad stuff when I need to.

[A]

But I love that I always tell people, like, if you can just let social media be your overflow, that's a good place to be. Yeah, I think a lot of people like go to social media to get something. It's like you're trying to get satisfaction of, like trying to get followers, trying to get attention, trying to get information. But like if that can just be a place of overflow, like, no, I'm actually going to go give to it. I'm going to go like give through my words. Like hopefully I bless other people. Post something fun, like be the light of the world, laugh about it, you know, go like it's just so much better when you come at it. Not from a place of needing anything from it, but actually like being able to give something to it. And sometimes you don't always have something to give. So if you don't have something to give, you don't have to give. Don't post. You know, and I think so many people are like the algorithm I have to post every day. It's like, okay, just trust the Lord enough to know that if you don't have something to say, don't say it yet, you don't have something post, just wait. I get some people, you know, when big things happen, I've had it happen where people are like, why aren't you speaking on this? Why aren't you speaking on this? And I'm like, because I'm thinking about it, because I'm processing it, because I'm praying through it, because I'm asking the Lord for the words to say. And I Don't have them yet. And so I'm not gonna post today because today's the day everybody's talking about it. It's like, it might be tomorrow. It might be a week from now. And what I've done with my podcast a lot is I'm like, I might never say it on Instagram because I cannot fit all my thoughts into a caption that only takes that many characters. These are, like, conversations I'm having, you know, Like, I'm a talker. Okay. We can't process in a little. Little chat. And so, yeah, I think you're so wise to just be like, hey, I'm just gonna be me. And when I have something pose, I'm post it. Like, unfortunately, that's not a lot of people's approach, but I think we can certainly learn from that. You know, your sisters, I love how you started this with your sister. I want to end it with your sisters. Like, that was the word your aunt gave you. That was the word she put on your heart. And you've been such a good sister to them. Y' all have the thing together. What is sisterhood? What a sisterhood taught you in general, and how would you encourage those out there be a good sister?

[B]

Oh, that's hard. I'm just thinking about, like, the practicality of sisterhood, which has been, like, you love and you fight and you keep it moving. Like, that's my favorite part of sisterhood, is that this is embarrassing. In a confession. I've chucked a remote at my sister's face. Before it was PMS. I was 14.

[A]

Come on, now. Let's keep this real.

[B]

I think I was older. She said something crazy, and so you fight like that, and then we apologize and we move on. Sometimes you don't apologize. Like, you just keep it going. And I think that's just a human life skill. Like, with our sisters in Christ. With our sisters, like, we need to just be soft enough to love and, like, tough enough to not take it all personally and just keep moving.

[A]

Like, that is a word.

[B]

Like, just living in love. I think there's something freeing about that, where you just can live and be. And I. Yeah, I want to be that kind of sister. That's like a safe space for everyone, and you can throw a remote at my face and be forgiven, and we can keep loving each other.

[A]

Just keep it moving. I love that. I'm trying to. Okay, so I'm trying to steward sisterhood right now because I have three girls, and that is, like, truly, it gets brutal. I mean, no. They are so rough with each other, and then they'll be so sweet to each other. But one thing I am teaching them is, like, how to come together after they fight. And so they will be so mad at each other. And Honey takes us from Haven, and Haven takes that from Honey. And they're chasing each other and they're screaming at each other, and I'll go, stop. Y' all both hug right now. And it's so funny because they're like, oh, you know, and then they do my little one, my two year old, they hug, and she goes, I, Anna, you, Elsa. And I was like, that was the best thing ever. And then, of course, Honey ruins it. She's like, I don't want to be Elsa. And I'm like, stop. This moment is too great. But it's, like, so sweet.

[B]

It's like, did your parents make you.

[A]

Oh, yeah. It's like, you have to hug. You have to come together. That was our thing. Yes. It does work, actually. I have seen after they hug, like, it kind of resets the moment. And actually, Haven really has taken on to the Anna Elsa thing. And so she'll be like, I'm on your Elsa. And then for her, that's, like, all she needs. We're back at it. Like we're sisters. That really kind of backfired, though, with our little one, because Haven kept wanting to, like, pry her eye open while she was sleeping. I was like, haven, stop. She. It's what Anna do to Elsa. And if you watch the movie she actually does, she tries to wake her up. It's so. She's taking it very literally. I was using them as an example of beautiful sisterhood. It's so funny, but I love that. Keep it moving. Keep it moving. Girl. You're amazing. First off, you are just radiant. You're a stunning, stunning girl who loves the Lord, and it radiates off your face and your heart. And I couldn't be more thankful to know you, to cheer you on in life. And to everyone listening to this podcast, I know you've been so blessed by her as just an encourager and an influencer. Go follow her on Instagram. Instagram. Go get this book God is. Dive into who the character of God is in your life, and you're going to be amazed at how those things that you thought maybe you could never get over, you could never get past start to all kind of fall into place when you understand who God is and he's in the rightful place on the throne of your life. So thanks for listening, friends. And thank you so much, Lena, for coming on.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Sam.