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WHOA That's Good Podcast
How to Tell the Truth with Kindness & Love | Sadie, Christian & Preston Perry
00:53:36
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- [00:00]
Sadie Robertson
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for Career Day and said he was a big roas man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day.
- [00:14]
Preston Perry
Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com results. Twitter terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be to Be.
- [00:30]
Sadie Robertson
The nights are long this time of year, friends, and that's why you have got to get yourself a Helix Mattress. When you get a Helix mattress in your home, you don't even mind that it feels like bedtime. At 5pm Christian and I have a Helix Midnight, which is what we matched with when we took the Helix Sleep Quiz. It's perfect for us because we are both side sleepers and like the bed not too firm, not too soft. It is perfect for us. Our Helix was a major upgrade from our old mattress and the difference in our sleep quality is so obvious. Not only does it help me sleep, also helps me have fewer aches and pains, more energy throughout the day, and it truly has been the biggest game changer for sleep. So go to helixsleep.com Sadie for 25% off site wide and two free dream pillows with your mattress purchase. That's helixleep.com Sadie for 25 off site wide plus two free dream pillows with your Mattress purchase. Helixleep.com Sadie what's up everybody? Happy Wednesday. I hope you're having a great week, but per usual, oh it is about to get so much better because we have an incredible guest on the podcast and to help me co host I have my husband Christian say what's up?
- [01:43]
Christian Huff
What's up? I'm the co host today.
- [01:44]
Sadie Robertson
He's the co host because we are both so mutually excited for the guests that we have. You guys have known his wife because she's been on the podcast twice. But today we are so lucky and honored to have Preston Perry on the podcast with his new book how to Tell the Truth, y'all. This book is such an important message to the church, to believers. Everybody before you even listen to this should go buy it. But definitely by the end you're going to. So Preston, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:10]
Preston Perry
Hey Sadie, I love it.
- [02:14]
Sadie Robertson
I love it. I was just telling him it was so funny because Jackie and I like it's so sweet because I just respect her so Much love her so much, and she's always said the same to me, but we are so different in personality. And it really rang true in my intro to Jackie, because I just. Every time I'm like, you're about to have an even better week, and blah, blah, blah, and then Jackie's like, hey, Sadie. That was, like, everyone's favorite thing. So, Preston, thank you for meeting me with the Perry energy. I love it. I respect it. Look, we ask the same question every single time to a new guest on the podcast, and it's kind of a hefty one, so I do apologize. But the first question we have to ask is, what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given?
- [03:00]
Preston Perry
Wow, that's. Man, that's crazy, because I have different nuggets of advice for different areas of life. I think when it comes to marriage, the thing that helped my marriage, somebody told me that if God gave me a spouse that met my every condition, I would never learn how to love unconditionally. And I don't know why that just spoke to me so, so much, because I think it. It just transformed the way I thought about marriage and covenant.
- [03:28]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [03:29]
Preston Perry
And. Yeah, and I just transformed how. How I was as a husband. And so I think that was the. The. The best. Some of the best advice I've ever. I've ever given I was ever cool.
- [03:40]
Sadie Robertson
I love that. It's so cool, too, to see, like, just how much you and Jackie's marriage has ministered to so many people. I was. We were Both watching yalls YouTube this morning, and I watch it often, but we were watching it today to kind of prep for this podcast, and I'm. I was just thinking, man, like, they have ministered to so many people. One with what you say. Absolutely. The words you say are so filled with truth in such. Well, but even maybe more than that, the way that you just act, the way that you live, the way that you love one another has ministered to so many. So it's so cool to learn from you guys. This book, like I said, it really is so important. I'm so excited to talk about it. Christian and I had, like, two pages of notes separately, so we're like, okay, you know what? We're gonna just have to have a good conversation and let. Let it fly, because we have so much that we want to ask. But before we get into everything, tell us a little bit about who you are. Like, your backstory, how you grew up and all.
- [04:35]
Preston Perry
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. So, yeah, I'M from the south side of Chicago. I'm from a place called the Hood. You know, I grew up with my mom. My mom, you know, was a single parent who raised me and my siblings, you know, and I didn't grow up in a church. I didn't grow up going, going to church. Often my mom would take me to church like on Easter and Christmas, but I didn't grow up in a church at all. And you know, the only person that was a, a Christian in my family, like a real like devout Christian in my family was my grandmother who raised my mother ironically and, and all of her brothers in church. But you know, I guess when they got older they was just kind of churched out. So my mom had like a form of godliness, but she just didn't rock with the church like that. And so growing up in the hood, you know, I, I just kind of became accustomed to the things that was around me. You know, grew up in a lot of poverty stricken areas. So around the age of 12, I started selling weed. Around the age of 12 I lost my virginity. Around the age of 12 I broke into my first car. I did everything kind of at 12 years old, you know, and I, I had uncles who I looked up to, but all my uncles were, you know, living, living the street life. And I grew up with a lot of cousins and my cousins was like my brother and you know, just growing up, I just, I just grew up around a lot of criminal activity, to be honest with you. But you know, when I got older I kind of felt like the Lord was calling me. And it happened when I was chasing this girl who I liked in this house church in Atlanta. And her father, and her mother was pastors. And the father came outside the parking lot before church started. They were like, they were about to, about to get ready to start service. And he said, I know you like my daughter, but if you want to be around my daughter, you have to come to church. And so I was like, ah. So I didn't go in that day, but the next Sunday I came in, you know. And this is around the time where I'm getting kicked out of school. This is like later on in my, my teenage life. I was, I think I was in alternative school at this time because I, I went to four different high schools. I was arrested 16 times in high school. Just really big problem child. And I went to church that, that Sunday. I think I was 15. And her father got up and said if, if you think God being a God of love means he won't destroy all evil. You don't know what love is. If God is a God of love, he must hate all evil. And then he just started talking about the evil in our community and how it deserved death. But because God is a God of love, he's equally offering us grace and salvation through the person of Jesus Christ. And I was like, whoa. And so I. I heard about Jesus before, you know, but this was the first time I heard about Jesus in this way because it was kind of like, oh, God has beef with me. God hates the way I'm living. Like, I was like, whoa. And so, yeah, I can just kind of go into my salvation story through from there. But yet that's kind of how the Lord started pursuing me and kind of how I grew up and stuff like that.
- [07:47]
Sadie Robertson
Wow, that's so crazy. So whenever. So now, like, you're such a deep thinker. You're such a deep. Like, we're going to get into all that, you know, your past life being such a wild kid. Were you always a deep thinker? Like, do you think that message just made you, like, go, whoa, that's deep. That's something I hadn't thought about before. Or is the deep thinking and the apology all that? Did that just come later in life once you found your relationship with the Lord? Or is that something that was kind of always in you?
- [08:14]
Preston Perry
Wow, Sadie, that's such a good question. I don't think anybody ever asked me that question. Yes, I. I think I. You know what? I think the way God has created you there, there are always going to be remnants of that even before you come to the Lord, you know, and so I remember when I was 11 years old, I was getting in trouble online in school, and they assigned all of the bad kids, quote, unquote, bad kids, mentors, to shadow them in class, to help them with, you know, behavior issues. And I was getting into fights, and this lady named Ms. Magnus, like an older white lady, she changed my life. She said, we need to find an outlet for you. She said, because you're so angry, but it's a reason why you're so angry. And that was the first person who started trying to identify why I was angry. Because everybody always called me bad, but nobody ever asked me, why are you so bad? Or why are you so angry? And so she. She told me to write the way I felt. And I just wrote the way I felt. And she read it and she said, I think you're a poet. And I said, what? And she was like, I think you're a Poet. And so she got this book from a woman named Gwendolyn Brooks. Gwendolyn Brooks was the first African American female poet to win a Nobel Peace Prize. And she was from the west side of Chicago, and she gave me her book. And that was the first time I fell in love with language. And I started to see the beautiful possibilities of language and how it can change the world. Right? And so I read this book by Gwendolyn Brooks, and I started to write poetry. And this old white lady, I remember I wrote my first poem, and she started to affirm me of how brilliant I was and how great of a thinker I was. And I wrote this metaphor. I said, mom, I hate when you attack me with that gun that sits between your nose and your chin. And she was like, 11 year olds don't write like this.
- [10:09]
Sadie Robertson
Whoa.
- [10:10]
Preston Perry
And. And so she just started to affirm, like, my mind, you know? And so as I started to grow up, I started to see that even though I lived in the middle of poverty, in the middle of violence, in the middle of gang banging, that God, in his sovereignty, strategically giving me, gave me a mind that would later on serve him. That makes sense.
- [10:31]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [10:32]
Preston Perry
And so even before I became a Christian, God used people like Ms. Magnus and other people to plant seeds to let me know what was in me.
- [10:39]
Sadie Robertson
Man, that. That's incredible. That's so cool, because that's, like, the.
- [10:42]
Christian Huff
Best piece of advice I've ever been given.
- [10:44]
Sadie Robertson
I know. No, that's so good, because I think that, like, a lot of times, you know, when you look at somebody who is living such a wild life, there's always a reason, you know, there's always a reason people act the way I think, even. It's funny that you say that about me asking that question. You're like, no one's asked me that question before. And even with podcasting, I think so often, you know, people ask the same questions to people because it's like, the obvious question you should ask, because it's, like, the obvious thing they're giving. But I think you get to like better conversations when you ask, like, I don't know, the deeper question, like, why is it that way? How did you get to become such a deep thinker? And it's the same in life. I think, like, one thing podcasting has helped me understand is, like, the power of intentional questions. And so, yeah, instead of, you know, just assuming, oh, that person's so bad, that person's so wrong, it's like, why do they get that way? Which I think you are so good at when it comes to like street evangelism. Like, you are someone. I was watching videos this morning. I'm like, this is so cool, cuz. Yes. It's so bold. It's also something that you're teaching so you're able to learn from it. But it's like that is intimidating to go up to people who believe so different or are so different. But do you feel like, I guess because you felt misunderstood in the past and you had a bigger story to tell, is that why you feel like you give others a chance to uncover their stories? Is that where that questioning in you comes from? Was maybe even that teacher? Y'all thinking back to the days, the newborn days when sleep was few and far between. Trust me, when your baby doesn't sleep well, you'll do whatever you can to make sure that you're getting some rest. And that is where Dreamland Baby weighted sleep sacks comes in. Dreamland Baby was created out of a desperation by an exhaustive mom. They made a deal on Shark Tank, which is actually where I sell them for the first time. And their product has been featured in Forbes and sold in top retail stores like Nordstrom's. And it has to be good, right? If it's getting all that attention? Well, let me tell you something from me personally, it is amazing. The weighted sleep sack works by mimicking the gentle feeling of parents touch to comfort them into a deeper, longer sleep. The tagless design means that no irritation is going to happen. And the two way zipper makes the nighttime diaper changing super easy. Plus the soft but durable materials will stand up to a lot of washings while staying gentle on baby's skin. I remember the first time we saw this on Shark Tank. It was like a movie scene. We were so tired, Honey was not sleeping. And we see this on Shark Tank and we're like, we need to buy that right now. We go online, we bought it. And to this day we still use Dreamland Baby way to sleep. Haven uses it. She does not know a night sleep without it. We absolutely love it. It changed the sleep game for us for sure. That is like our biggest hack in parenting is Dreamland Baby. So go to dreamlandbabycode.com and enter my code. Whoa. That's w h o a at checkout to receive 20% off site wide plus free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers that streamland bab and enter the code Whoa at checkout to save.
- [13:45]
Preston Perry
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Absolutely. One thing I've learned about evangelism is every heart really Has a cry. I think we just have to ask the right questions to hear it. Love that a lot of people don't even realize why they believe the things that they believe. They. They don't. They don't realize how much. How much the hurt and the pain that they endured in life have shaped their worldviews. And one thing that I found out is that asking right questions kind of unearths and kind of reveals like, oh, this is the reason why I believe what I believe. And so I think, you know, I ask a lot of questions in evangelism, not just so that I can understand, but also to help them understand. And I think real evangelism is also, like, about, like, it's kind of like counseling almost, you know, like, and. And I'm not trying to play the Holy Spirit, you know, but I'm just trying to make room for the Holy Spirit to speak. Yeah, I think that's the only job we have as evangelists is how can we be used so we can make room for the Holy Spirit to reveal? And so just asking the right questions. And so Jesus did that. Jesus always asks questions that he knew the answer to, not because he didn't know the answer, but because he was trying to reveal something. The woman at the well, where's your husband? He knew she had five, you know, but he's trying to reveal something to her. So I think asking good questions is always good in evangelism because I think it helps people to come up with their own conclusion about the state of their own heart without you seeming accusatory, without you seeming like you're attacking them. And so I think that's just a really great tactic that Jesus kind of example gave. Gave an example for us.
- [15:25]
Sadie Robertson
It's great. I love that so much.
- [15:27]
Christian Huff
I want to. Speaking of asking a question, I want to ask this. And then I have a question kind of from what you talked about with Ms. Magnus, but from an evangelism side. You know, one of my favorite passages is Acts 8 was Philip and the eunuch. There's post, you know, post resurrection, post Jesus ascending to heaven. And it's, you know, there's this eunuch who's leaving Jerusalem from worship, and he's reading the prophet Isaiah. And, you know, Philip goes and asks him, he says, do you understand what you're reading? And the eunuch says, how can I unless someone explains it to me? And it says, beginning with that very passage, he explained him the good news about Jesus. And then after that, the, you know, the eunuch says, here's Water. Why, why should I be, why should I be baptized? And then he goes and be baptized, and then they both go their separate ways. But the thing about the question is, you know, thinking about it in our terms today, it's like if you see someone leaving church and they're reading the Bible, you usually would associate them with being saved. You probably wouldn't go ask them this question and something about the Philip, you know, Philip asking that question. Do you understand what you're reading is what's so poignant? But I just love, you know, we do like, a bunch of evangelism stuff at our church. And that's like one of our key stories of, like, asking good questions. And not only asking good questions, but, you know, if, if Philip would have gone over there, and then it's the passage in Isaiah where it's, you know, like a sheep, he was led to the slaughter. If Philip would not have known what he was, you know, if, if, if the eunuch was like, it's Isaiah 51. And then Philip was like, oh, I don't, I don't, I don't know that scripture then. So, so you have to be equipped. But then you also have know good questions. So, yeah, yeah. Anytime I, you know, hear people talk about from an evangelism side of things, like asking the right questions, asking good questions. That's one of my favorite scriptures to go to because it lays out, you know, being equipped, asking the right questions. And then here's water. Why should I be baptized?
- [17:20]
Preston Perry
So that's so good, because I think that, I think that what you're saying is that we, we, we, we have to ask the right questions, but if we are not equipped with the key foundations of the essentials of the gospel, we actually don't really know the right questions to ask. And do think that God wants us to, to know the gospel. Right. And I think a lot of times people are afraid of evangelism because they feel like they don't know enough.
- [17:47]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [17:48]
Preston Perry
And I, I, I, I think, I think that's one tactic of the enemy, to be honest with you, to feel like you have to know a whole bunch of information. I don't necessarily think that you need to know a whole bunch of information, but I do think that you need to be solid in what you do know, and that is that Jesus, who Jesus is and how he has revealed himself to his creation. I think that we need to know how we are saved. It is through grace in Jesus Christ alone. It is not of our works. And I think that we need to explain how God exists, one God through a triune Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And I think all the other stuff kind of falls in place when we know the gospel. And I tell people all the time, don't major over minors. There are going to be certain things in the in about the Christian faith that you don't necessarily have to go deep in.
- [18:46]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [18:46]
Preston Perry
You know, but when you get out in the streets, people have a problem with who Jesus is. That's the main thing. A lot of people didn't admit that he existed, but they deny his deity. Right. A lot of people have a problem with how we become saved and how we get to heaven and so explaining how, how we get to heaven, that we're saved by grace through faith in JEs alone and explaining how God exists. And I think that if you focus on those three foundational essentials of the gospel, then you will kind of know, like, what are people beefs? And then you know the right questions to ask. And I think the last thing is the defense of the church. I think a lot of people are just hurt by church, Christians, church people. And so I think understanding that you come from a group that has, has negatively impacted a lot of people, I think your behavior and your conduct then kind of informs how you should act when you get in the streets, you.
- [19:48]
Sadie Robertson
Know, So I love the story you were telling. I think you were talking to. It was someone who believed in like her ancestors and stuff. And as you were talking, like, you realize you need to shift gears based off of her past church hurt and what had happened to her. And I love the quote that you said. Like, sometimes you have to drive like a different vehicle to get to the same destination. And I was like, that is so good. And just goes to show like, like, it's not going to be like the same thing you say to every single person. Because you have to account for the fact that people are hurt for a reason. Like, there's a reason there's hurt, there's a reason, there's confusion. There's a reason, like, and so I think I love, like, you carry this beautiful boldness, but also like loving kindness. And didn't you write down that quote that he said something about like, boldness.
- [20:38]
Christian Huff
Without the spirit, Boldness without the spirit makes us fools.
- [20:40]
Sadie Robertson
I was like, like, that's so good. That's so it. So how do you feel? Like whenever you're in a conversation, like active conversation with someone, you go in, you know, all the stuff, but how do you hold the tension for, like, just Love, you know, like, how do you be bold and also be loving? How do you tell the truth but also love someone? Because I think that's the hard thing. People are like, I want to tell the truth, but I'm scared people are going to think I'm hateful. Or I'm worried that if people see that I'm a Christian, they're going to think that I'm judgmental. Like, how do you stand firmly in the truth, but also firmly in love?
- [21:10]
Preston Perry
Yeah, because I think. I think one thing that we have to kind of remember is boldness is not doing what men are afraid to do. Boldness is doing what God empowers you to do.
- [21:24]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [21:25]
Preston Perry
You know, and so I think that if we look at boldness in that way, that boldness is empowering. Is an empowering of the Holy Spirit to do what he. Whatever he wants you to do in the moment.
- [21:36]
Sadie Robertson
It.
- [21:37]
Preston Perry
Right. In Acts, chapter four, when Peter and John were arrested, you know, and they had to stand before the council the next day after they were released from prison, you know, the Bible says they was filled with the Holy Spirit to, to. To tell, you know, the priest, like, no, this Jesus Christ of Nazareth, y'all crucified him like he was the cornerstone that y'all rejected. Right. And so these were the same group of men who hid in a, in. In a house who was af. Know, after. After the crucifixion of Jesus. And so now they're standing before the same people who crucified Jesus with this Holy Spirit boldness because God empowered them in the moment to be bold. And so it wasn't merely them just saying what men are afraid to do. It was God empowering them to be bold in the moment. And I think boldness is deeply connected with love. And I think that anytime our boldness is, Is. Is operated in lovelessness. It is, it is actually not boldness. It is just foolishness. Right. Because a fool can just say anything but a, but a bold person for the Lord, a bold person is going to say what God empowers him to say. But because God is a God of love, he's always going to allow you to speak in a loving way for his glory. Right. And I think that's the difference. Like, for example, you talk about the lady who worshiped her ancestors. You know, I wasn't necessarily afraid to tell her that ancestral worship was wrong. I wasn't afraid. Like, I, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't. You know, it's not like I didn't care, but I'm just, I wasn't afraid at the moment, you know. But when she started to talk about her ancestors, I started to go to all of these scriptures and what was crazy, every scripture that I, that I brought up to her, she, she knew the scripture. And I was like, oh. So that told me, okay, she's familiar with the Christian church, so let me ask her, did you come from the Christian church? And she said, yeah, yeah, I came from the Christian church. Why, why are you not a part of the Christian church? And then she said, I don't want to tell you that. So I was like, okay, you know, I kind of backed off a little bit. And then something was just telling me, she's hurt, she's hurt, you know. And then I started talking about the sovereignty of God, and I started talking about the, just the all knowingness of God. And when I started talking about the sovereignty of God, she was triggered. And she said, was it God's sovereignty that I got raped? Was it God's sovereignty that the church blamed my rape on me? And at that moment a fear came over me. And I think it was a healthy fear. It was not a fear to tell her the truth. The fear came over me that I don't wanna, I don't wanna further abuse her. I don't wanna further mistreat her. I don't wanna further wound her. And so it was this healthy fear, this healthy over, over a fellow image bear. And so I remember praying and I remember asking the Lord, Lord, I think she, I know she needs the gospel, but I don't know how to give it to her. Help me. And I felt the Lord speak to my heart and say, share your wife's story. Share your wife's story. And so I started sharing my wife's story. And when I start sharing Jackie's story about her molestation, yada yada, yada, I just left it at that. And I tell people all the time, when you ask good questions, especially with a combative person in evangelism, the moment they ask you a question with their guards down is when you started to kind of gain traction with them.
- [25:15]
Sadie Robertson
Wow, that's so good.
- [25:16]
Preston Perry
Yeah. And she said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that happened to your wife. She said, whatever happened to your wife? And so now I'm able to give her the gospel through Jackie's story. You know what, actually God ended up up saving my wife. And she wrote a book called Gay Girl Good God. And God has used her to bring so many People out of bondage and yada, yada, yada. And guess what? God wants to do the same with you. And he saw what happened to you and he's a God of love. And he hated that. He hates sin. And he will like, he will repay all those for what they have done. But he's offering you grace. He's offering you love. He's offering you freedom. He's offering you peace if you just turn from your sin and place your faith in Him. So I was able to give her the gospel through another vehicle, not just throwing scriptures down her throat, right, because she hated the scriptures, but God gave me another vehicle to get to, to. To the same destination. And I think. I think boldness is not necessarily just blurting out a whole bunch of things that are true. Yes, boldness is about obedience. And so I was. I asked the Lord what did he want me to do? And I obeyed. And I was still bold.
- [26:25]
Sadie Robertson
It's great. That is so beautiful. Well, fam, we are not too far into January yet, and I hope y'all are staying strong with those new year goals. Sometimes sticking with one goal or resolution all year can be hard, especially when it comes to forming new, healthier habits. Thankfully, AG1 makes it so easy and possible to do just one scoop and a glass of cold water. And AG1 offers immune, gut and stress support. There's no powders, pills, or complicated prep because AG1 is an all in one solution that supports your entire body for the whole day in less than 60 seconds seconds. Living healthy doesn't mean keeping a super strict diet or working out every day. It means finding ways to make better choices that work for you and your body. And AG1 is here for it. So even whenever I'm on the road, I can stick to my healthy routine by just having AG1's convenient travel packs in my, literally my purse. Not even just my backpack because they're so small. I just throw a few in my purse, head out the door, and we are good to go. There's no mixing powders, pills, or complicated prep because AG1 is an all in one solution that simplifies, supports my entire body for the whole day in less than 60 seconds. Living healthy doesn't mean that you have to, you know, necessarily have a strict diet or workout every day, but it does mean finding ways to make better choices that work for you and your body. And AG1 is here for it. So even when I'm on the road, I can stick to my healthy routine with AG1 by literally just putting a travel pack. They have the most convenient travel packs in my purse. And heading out the door. AG1 has been incredible for my gut health too. Gut health is so, so important. And I remember looking into just different things to take for gut health and it can be overwhelming because there's so many things on the market. And then I realized AG1 literally has everything I need to support my gut health. So this new year, try AG1 for yourself. It is the perfect time to start a new healthy habit. And that's why we've been partnered with AG1 for so long. And AG1 is offering new subscribers a free 76 gift. You're going to get a welcome kit, a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com whoa to get this special offer drink ag1.com whoa to start your new year off on a healthier note. It reminds me of the woman at the will again, because she asked the questions back to Jesus. Like, I think that's what's so cool. She wasn't offended by him saying that about her husband's situation because she knew this. This man's on my level. Like, he just offered to drink from my cup. He's like, why is this Jewish man even talking to me? And like, because of his kindness and his, him asking questions. She was asking him questions. And they got to this place of him revealing to her that he's the Messiah. And it changed her entire life. And then, then all of a sudden she's going back to the town and people are like, what happened to you? And then it changes an entire town. Like, it's amazing. And that wasn't. I love that story. Because God didn't do any kind of. Jesus didn't do any kind of like, miracle in that moment other than just seeing her, knowing her, loving her, getting on her level, being vulnerable. And like, he could have, he could have done a miracle. You know when he said this, well, it's like living water. He could have like made the water overflow. Like, it could have been something that she could have gone back and said, come and see this. But it wasn't even that. It was just, come and see this man who knew me. Like, oh, that's just one of the best.
- [29:40]
Preston Perry
And so she didn't, she didn't. She didn't. She didn't do a five point sermon. Nope, she didn't. She didn't talk about substitutional atonement. She didn't try to break down propitiation she just said, go see for yourself.
- [29:53]
Sadie Robertson
Go see. And that's what's so good. Like, that's what everyone who is a believer needs to hear and take note of. Like, when we're talking about evangelism, like, who is the evangelist? Like, you're supposed to be. We're supposed to be. We all are. It's not just reserved for pastors, preachers, seminary school. Like, it. It's everybody preaching a believer. It's you, you know, And I think that's what I love about what you preach and how you live. It's like you're just. You're equipping people with how to do it, but not in a way that it's like you have to know everything. It's like, hey, love people well. Yeah. Know. Know the foundational things, Know what really matters. Know the truth. Yes. Have a solid foundation, but then go like, love people well. And that's pretty much what Jesus said. He's like, it comes down to this. Love the Lord, your God, the heart, soul, mind, love your neighbor as yourself. And like, when you do those things, it covers a lot of the bases, you know, it kind of flows from there, you know, it's so good that you said that about boldness. I think that is what such a turn off sometimes to people, even on, like, social media, to Christians, because it seems like you're just spitting out all of these, you know, hot takes sometimes not. When I say you, I'm not talking about us. I'm talking about sometimes I have felt like people feel like that's a turn off for Christianity when they see such, like, bold takes without, like, like, oh, that was 15 seconds. You don't understand, like, the context and maybe what we were talking about. But I remember one time I felt like I felt like I needed to say something that would have been bold, you know, that would have felt like, oh, gosh, this could get some hate. This could get some canceling this whole thing. But I really felt like God was putting on my heart to say it. So at the time, we happened to be going to Texas around that time, and we were going to go eat dinner with Matt and Lauren Chandler, which Matt Chandler is someone that, you know, we really look up to, respect. And when I think a bold pastor. He is a very bold pastor, he's.
- [31:39]
Preston Perry
Like, I love Matt.
- [31:40]
Sadie Robertson
I. We love him. Like, he preaches truth. He challenges the church. Like, he is such a good pastor. And so I was like, oh, perfect guy to ask my boldness question to. And so I, like, lay it out like, hey, here's what I feel like God put on my heart to say. And I feel a little worried about it because yada, yada, yada, and feels really bold. And he was like, you know, if God put that on your heart to say it, I. I'm not going to go against it and say, don't say it. But I do want to ask you, like. Like, why do you. Why do you feel like you need to say it? And then he was like, because it might not be yours to say. He's like, it's true. Someone needs to say it. And maybe it is you, if God's convicting you, that he's like, but you need to think about who's listening to you. He's like, you have a very broad audience, so if you say this, you need to really consider the way that you say it. So, yes, it's in line with the truth, but also, you want people to know that you love them. And if that got cl. If that got clipped in a certain way, it could be a huge turnoff to people. And it was so good for me because I was expecting Matt Chandler to be like, say it. You know, just say it. And he didn't. He was like, it might not be wise to say it. Like, if God put it on your heart, then, yes, you need to obey, but you also need to be very careful with this. And what was so cool is I went from that conversation, I prayed a lot into what I was gonna say, and God gave me this beautiful analogy and story to say what I was going to say and hold true to. To the truth of God's word, but in a way that was so loving and. And in a way that people understood it in a new way. And it was so cool, because I'm like, had he not given me that advice, I wouldn't have prayed into it more. I would have just kind of gone out and said it. Like, this is what I'm gonna say. Because God. And I'm just so grateful for that. And so he kind of taught me, like, yeah, boldness is important, but, yes, boldness has to also be met with love. And I think that's what Jesus did so beautifully. Wisdom, discernment, like, say it kindly. Say it in the right. It's not just about going out and being bold for the sake of being bold. So, yeah, I love that. That was so, so good. So good. Gosh. Okay. Do you have something? Because I feel like I have so many things.
- [33:46]
Christian Huff
No, you're good. No, you're good. I Always have something to say and then you go into something new. So I feel like I'm backtracking, which is completely fine. But I was thinking about it when you were talking about the lady who was worshiping her ancestors about, you know, the, the, the verse where Paul talks about I've become all things to all people. There's, you know, that verse and Ephesians 6, which. This verse is so interesting to me. So it's Ephesians 6, 19. It's Paul, Paul's praying to God that the mystery of the gospel or that God would help, you know, Paul articulate the mystery of the gospel. Which is so interesting because if anyone knows the gospel, it's Paul. You know, Paul's, Paul's praying that to these people that God would help explain the mystery of the gospel through him. And even, you know, kind of tying that verse into I become all things to all people. You know, that there are some situations where, you know, whether it's in Acts where he's reasoning with the people in the temple or where he's, you know, deliberately just talking about the gospel. Like there's so many different ways, you know, to do evangelism and it's not the same way. Yeah, wait, it's not the same way every time.
- [34:54]
Sadie Robertson
Can you tell that story about you and Jackie with the Jehovah's Witness in the airport? That's like putting you on the spot with a specific story. But I love that story because it's so true that evangelism is going to look different for everybody. And you see that for you and Jackie on like a global ministry scale. But that was like a really good day to day skill.
- [35:13]
Preston Perry
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [35:15]
Christian Huff
Yeah.
- [35:15]
Preston Perry
Me, me and Jackie, we were actually leaving Virginia Beach. Her, her oldest brother was retiring from the Navy as a master chief. And so we were leaving Virginia and we walk her through the airport support. So if anybody knows my wife, I mean, if you like follow my wife throughout the years and if you know her personally, you know, she's a huge introvert. She's just not the type of person who like walks up to strangers or talks to strangers. I mean, people come in our house. Jackie's not going to say a word. She's going to observe and kind of just be to herself. That's how she is. And so we walk into the airport and I saw two Jehovah's Witnesses at a stand. And so I know I'm very, I'm very familiar with the Watchtower organization, Jehovah's Witness organization. And I Know that when you see them in public, they're not allowed to actually kind of like talk to you. You have to talk to them first. And so by law, right? And so I say, jackie, I'm about to go talk to the Jehovah's Witnesses. And so she said, okay, I'm about to go get us something to eat. Peace. And so she threw me the deuces and she went and got something to eat. And so, I mean, I, I expected her to do that. I, I was going to come with me. So I went over there, over there. I had like a 30 minute conversation with the Jehovah's Witnesses. It was really respectful. I just kind of wanted to, you know, you know, plant some seeds, ask him some questions that I feel like nobody never asked them. You know, connecting to my YouTube channel, connecting to resources that might reveal true to them all the things. So I leave the Jehovah's Witnesses, go to the restaurant in the airport where Jackie was at. And when I get to the, to the restaurant run, you know, Jackie has her head bow with the waitress and they're praying together. And I'm like, whoa, what's happening here? And so like one, I'm shocked because Jackie, she disciples women in our local church. She, she's really good with like, like situations, with like, situations I brought to her. But like, in the public sphere, she's never like really talking to people like that. So I'm like, why? How did this happen? And so, you know what was crazy? Jackie. After they got done praying, Jackie said, you know, the waitress asked her, who's she ordering food for? She said, I'm ordering food for my husband. She said, where's your husband? He said, she said, I'm over, he's over there, you know, talking to some Jehovah's Witnesses. And the waitress responded and said, I used to be a Jehovah's Witness and they excommunicated me and I've been done with religion ever since. And so Jackie said, I just felt like the Lord was like literally opening the door for me to give her the gospel.
- [37:48]
Sadie Robertson
Gospel, wow.
- [37:49]
Preston Perry
And so I, I, I, I put that example in my book and I, I talk about that example everywhere I go because evangelism doesn't always have to look the same. Yeah, right. Notice how God notice how like, Jackie didn't pursue a conversation, but she didn't avoid one when God lay on her lap. Like, she didn't avoid it. Right. She was receptive to it. She was obedient. And I think that God will give us all opportunities to be evangelistic if we are just, if we're just obedient. Right, right. And so I, I, I tell people all the time, I was discipling this young man who became friends with another guy I was discipling. And this guy that I was discipling, he's a lot like me. He's a lot like me. He's, he's the type of person that'll go out and talk to strangers. And so that's the reason why he start cutting my hair. That's the reason why I started discipling. So he's my barber and my discipler. Right. And so I started discipling this other dude that became friends with him, him, and he came amongst us and he's just not like the other guy. And he's not the type of person that would go up to strangers. But he felt this pressure to be like me and to be like his friend, because he's seen how much my discipleship has helped his friend become a better evangelist and stuff like that. And I told him, I said, you got to understand that God is not calling everybody to go out and catch the fish. Some people are called to prepare it, Some people are called to clean it, some people are called to serve it. Right. And it's all evangelism and it's all making disciples, but everybody, like, if God created us all differently, he doesn't want to use us the same.
- [39:29]
Sadie Robertson
That's good.
- [39:29]
Preston Perry
And so I had to just free him of this pressure.
- [39:33]
Sadie Robertson
That's great.
- [39:34]
Preston Perry
Your evangelism doesn't have to look like mine. God is going to use you how he has uniquely made you.
- [39:40]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [39:41]
Preston Perry
And I think, I think I want to just, I think that was one of the main messages that I wanted to preach to the book, that God has made you in a very, very unique way. Every single person is made in such a unique way. And I think that we look at certain people online and we say, I have to be used like this. And it's like, no, you have to be used, but you are not supposed to be used like that. You have, you're supposed to be used the way God wants you to be used, you know? And so I think that's one of the main, the main goals. And so I see J. Jackie right now, like, you know, being evangelistic with her person who does her eyebrows and person who does her hair. And I'm like, I love it, you know, but, you know, it wasn't always like that. And so God is going to use you how he has uniquely made you.
- [40:26]
Sadie Robertson
That's great. That's such good advice. Because I think a lot of people are looking at other people and thinking like, oh, when I get that platform, then I'll be used like that. And it's like they're not doing what they can be doing here now with what they have with how God made them. And the thing is, this is what I love about these examples. Like, like you talking about Jackie's ministry is with her hairdresser, with the girl that does her eyebrows, with the waitress. It's not talking about your podcast tour, which was amazing and did minister to a lot of people and is a way of ministry in evangelism. But, like, it's more than just that. It's all of it. It's life. It's who you talk to. It's whoever you're talking to is an opportunity to grow closer to God. The last thing I want to talk to you about, because I was like, oof, everybody needs to hear this. This is so good.
- [41:11]
Christian Huff
And then I have a last.
- [41:12]
Sadie Robertson
Okay, okay, okay. We got two more questions. Motions. There are few things more important to toddler moms like me than having a good bed to sleep in after the long days. And that is why I love Helix sleep, y'all. It loves me back, too. My Helix Midnight is everything I need in a mattress. It is not too firm, not too soft. It is just right in the middle. Plus, it was literally designed for side sleepers like me and Christian. Not only does Helix help us get better, deep quality sleep, but it also helps honey too. Actually, maybe too much because she wants to sleep in our. She's got her own Helix as well, and that keeps her well rested. And trust me, she stays energetic throughout the day. She has no problems there. I feel so much better in the mornings. Just since we started sleeping on our Helix mattress years ago. I don't struggle as much with aches, pains, or stiffness. When I wake up like I used to. There's no tossing and turning. I mean, we really do sleep so great. And sleep is so important, especially with busy travel and all the different things. And speaking of travel, you know when you go to a hotel and the bed's so nice, but once you have a Helix Mattress mattress, when you come back, you want to get in your bed because it is the most comfy. So go to helixsleep.com sadie for 25% off site wide and two free dream pillows with your mattress purchase. Don't miss this, guys. That's helixsleep.com. sadie for a 25% off site wide plus two free dream pillows with your mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.Com the last thing I want to ask you was about being okay with being seed planters. Because I was like, that is so good. And you were talking about how, like, it doesn't always have to end with, like, an altar call moment or I got saved for you to feel like you did your job, which I think just takes the pressure off of any of this being any kind of performance. You know, it's you doing what you really feel called to do. Can you speak to that a little bit?
- [43:04]
Preston Perry
Yeah. I think one of the biggest hurdles that we have to get over when we do evangelism is this save your confidence complex. I think that we. I think it is very. It is very easy to fall into the mode of trying to be the Holy Spirit and trying to convert people and trying to find pride. Like, I led this many people to the Lord today, and I'm. You know, I led this. And I do think that, you know, scripture does have a place for that. Like in Acts, it says that 5,000 people came to the Lord that day. And I do think that God, you know, has a place for that at times. But I. I do think that. That God definitely wants to raise up a generation of evangelists. That's just okay with being seed planters. That's just okay with, like, planting seeds and allowing those seeds to water. Water. And one of the examples that I gave in my book, one of the stories that I gave in my book was, you know, the first time I heard the gospel in the house church that I was telling you guys about. You know, I. I didn't even put this in the book. You guys getting, like, an exclusive. I wish I would have put it in the book. I. I didn't put this in the book.
- [44:17]
Sadie Robertson
Part two.
- [44:18]
Preston Perry
Yeah, right. I think I said this in a couple of interviews, but I might put it in the book. That same pastor who I heard give the gospel when I was 15, in 2019, me and Jackie was on a. A poetry tour called the Poets in Autumn Tour. And that same pastor came to our event, and he sat in the front row, and I'm doing my poem, and I look down and I see him. And I was like, whoa. And so after this, after the event, I went down, gave him a hug, and he has tears in his eyes. And he said, every time I would share the gospel, when we was in a parking lot or when you guys was at my house, I Felt like you guys can hear me. And just to see you guys on stage giving the gospel with your wife in very creative ways has blessed me. And I told him, I said, the first time I heard you give the gospel, I said, I did not become a Christian that day. I said, but I became keenly aware of my sin. And I said, and God started to pursue me. And I said, it wasn't until a friend of mine died where somebody came along and watered the seed that you planted. And he just began to cry. And I tell that story a lot because what if that man thought that his preaching was just in vain all those years? Yeah, right.
- [45:35]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [45:35]
Preston Perry
Like, God is going to use multiple people in our salvation story. And so a lot of times we won't be around to see somebody's conversion, but that does not mean that we did not play a pivotal part in their salvation.
- [45:48]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [45:49]
Preston Perry
That God is going to strategically use people to plant seeds. To plant seeds, to plant seeds. And that was the testimony of my life. Like, if I didn't hear the gospel when I was 15, I didn't stop breaking in cars after that. I didn't stop sleeping around after. After that. But I became keenly aware of my sin. I became keenly aware that God was watching me. I became keenly aware that I was. My. My sin was offensive to a holy and a righteous God. And. And I wasn't comfortable with sin after that day. I wasn't comfortable. And so. And so I do think that that's the role of an evangelist. It is to. To. To make the hard soil soft. Like, I think that's a lot of our role is to. Is this hard. Like, people are hard in the streets. And so my goal is not to see somebody become a Christian. My goal is to kind of like break up that solid ground. And God is sovereign, God is holy. God will send somebody to plant the right seed. Right. And so I do think that if we look at ourselves as seed planters, people who makes us the soil soft, I do think that it'll shift shape, reshape the way we think about evangelism and even apologetics. And I think that, I think, be helpful for our generation.
- [47:07]
Sadie Robertson
That's so good. Gosh, that is so good. Everything, every, like, thing you say, I'm like, you're have to rewind that to just listen to that whole answer again, because it's so rich and so good. So thank you for that. Did you.
- [47:23]
Preston Perry
Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry. From Long winded.
- [47:25]
Sadie Robertson
Oh, my gosh. No, it's the best that's what podcasts are for. That's all we have so much time is to be long winded so we can get all of it. It's so good.
- [47:32]
Christian Huff
We. And we can. And we can end with this. Cuz I thought you said this in, in your interview, which I thought it was so good, but you said don't give people the truth in a garbage bag and you talked about how they didn't reject the truth, they rejected the way that you gave it to them. What would you say to the person who maybe because you talked about, you know, serving the gospel on a silver platter and not in a garbage bag, what would you say to the person who maybe equates know, seminary or the like, you know, more, more theological things with the silver platter versus, you know, just testimony. Yeah. Versus just, you know, the blind man who. Look, I don't know who it was, but all I know is I was blind, now I see. Or the woman at the. Well, how, how do you. Because you know, Matthew 28, we're all called to be evangelists. We're all called to go make disciples and tell them about Jesus. So what would you say, the person who thinks, you know, I need to go do seminary and, and no more theological stuff to maybe think that that's, that's what it looks like to serve the gospel on a silver platter. But most of the time it looks like you just sharing your testimony.
- [48:34]
Preston Perry
Wow, that's cool. So as you guys probably can tell, I'm a storyteller. That's how God kind of speaks to me. If you guys don't know who Brian DY is, look him up. He is, I think, a hero in the field faith. He doesn't like public attention. So that's the reason why a lot of people don't know who he is, but a lot of people who actually do ministry know he is. And he started a discipleship making conference in Chicago years ago and he was my pastor. He was the one who married me and my wife. And in this discipleship making conference he would have like Matt Chandler, John Piper, lrae, all these people come and teach. And he was the first person who began to cultivate the evangelism gift in me. And I remember, you know, it was a three day conference one year, it was, it was all of these heavyweights like Dr. Tony Evans, John Piper, Matt Chandler, lrae, all of these people teaching. And I had did a workshop on evangelism and on the last day of the conference, it wasn't in the college, it was in the streets. We would have an outdoor concert and all the hip hop Christian rappers, they would do an out out outdoor concert. But what would happen was we would go out in the streets in teams and ev. In the neighborhood. And so people from all around the country was on the south side and the west side of Chicago evangelizing, trying to apply what they just learned in this conference in the streets. Long story short, Brian died. That was the first year, was years ago. It was the first year he put me in charge over the evangelism. And I was so terrified. Not only was I terrified, I felt very disqualified. I was like one. I did not go to seminary. I do not know all these things. I was so intimidated. Workshop is one thing, but like. And what was crazy is all of these people that were on my team were in seminary. And I was like, whoa. And so I went to Brian and I said, brian, I said, I don't feel equipped. And he said, you are just a man for the job. And he said, when you go out there, you're going to see the day why you equipped. Why you are more equipped than a lot of these people out here. And I went out there and I basically kind of instructed them on how to give the gospel in the hood. Right. Because I'm from these areas in Chicago. And, you know, the person that gave the people that gave me the most problem out there on the streets, it was the seminary students.
- [51:02]
Sadie Robertson
I was gonna say. Yep, that's the same for me.
- [51:06]
Preston Perry
It was the seminary students.
- [51:07]
Sadie Robertson
Yep.
- [51:09]
Preston Perry
It was the. It was. It was. Oh, my goodness, it. You know, and I don't want people to hear me say I'm shaming seminary because I actually I'm. I went to seminary. I didn't finish, but I'm starting back, you know, next year. You know, my wife is in seminary. I think the Bible tells us that his people perish because of a lack of knowledge. Knowledge is good. So I'm not shunning education, but I do think that if we find our identity in the information we know and not the God that we know, we will treat people like projects and not image bearers. And I think that's what I saw that whole day. And a lot of these people went out and they were so eager to teach people what they have learned. You can tell that they really didn't know people. They just knew information.
- [51:57]
Sadie Robertson
That's right. Yeah.
- [51:59]
Preston Perry
And. And I remember this. I'll never forget this. This guy, these two guys, they was trying to teach these people about some lofty theological term like substitutional atonement or something. I don't know. I forget what it was. And this old church mother, they came to the conference year after year. She interrupted them. She said, can I. Can I. She very respectful. She said, can I step in? And these guys, they were street guys, some hardened criminals. She said, you're hurting, baby. She said, why are you hurting? And she said, he said, I'm not hurting. And then his friend said, bro, you know you hurting. And then he kind of put his head down. And then she was like, tell me what's wrong? And then he wouldn't ref. Like, he refused to tell her. And then his friend said, his brother was killed last month.
- [52:44]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [52:45]
Preston Perry
And then she said, can you come and give me a hug? And then she began to pray for him. And then when she began to pray for him, his heart, like, this little. This, this. This. Like, this little boy came out of him. I could. I can't explain it. And this hardened criminal is, like, literally weeping on this woman's shoulder. And then right after that, she gave him the gospel and sent him on his way.
- [53:06]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [53:07]
Preston Perry
Right. And so, like, she just. She just did something that these seminary students couldn't do. And so I do think that knowledge is good, but I do think that God wants us to be in tune with people. He wants us to listen to stories. He wants us to be investigative. And I also think that he wants us to, in a loving, apply the information. We know that. That in a way that people can receive it. And so I do think that, like, knowledge is good, but we just have to. We have to make sure we don't give it to people in a garbage bag or dignified platter.
- [53:38]
Sadie Robertson
That's so good. I remember early on when I started speaking, someone said to me, like, that. I don't know where it is. They said, like, knowledge puffs up, but love pours out. And they're like, yes, continue to grow. Continue to learn. Absolutely. But. But, like, love pours out, so don't get too puffed up in what you begin to know that you're not pouring out with love. And I was like, that was a really good word for someone to speak at the very beginning of that journey for me. And so, Preston, this is so good. Honestly, y'all who are listening, this is a long podcast with so many rich things that we got to talk about. So many good nuggets, so much good advice, but there is so much more in this book. If you do not follow Presence Preston and their podcast, you gotta go follow along. They have so much that they put out there that, like I said, you're gonna learn from what they say. Absolutely. But also just the way that they live their lives. So thank you so much for being who you are and living the life that you live. We're both so inspired, and thanks for coming on the podcast, man.
- [54:33]
Preston Perry
Thank you guys for having me, man. God bless, y'all.