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WHOA That's Good Podcast
I Was Praised for My Eating Disorder | Sadie Robertson Huff & Jess Connolly
00:58:57
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- [00:01]
Sadie Robertson
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- [01:18]
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- [01:53]
Sadie Robertson
What's up, sisters and friends? Happy Monday, everybody. I hope you're having a good start to your week. But y' all, it is about to get so, so much better. Because today we're talking about a topic that is so desperately needed. We are going to be talking about this topic of body image with one of your favorite guests ever on the Wetsco podcast, who is back. We have Jess Connelly here in Louisiana. So welcome.
- [02:16]
Jess Connelly
I'm so happy to be here. It's a dream.
- [02:18]
Sadie Robertson
I mean, it's so fun. And I didn't even know you were a Duck Dynasty. Fan.
- [02:21]
Jess Connelly
So literally OG Duck Dynasty.
- [02:23]
Sadie Robertson
Now you're, like, at the Duck Commander Warehouse.
- [02:26]
Jess Connelly
I have chills, personally. My husband this morning was like, I am so jealous of you. I was like, I know. I.
- [02:32]
Sadie Robertson
We should have brought your whole family.
- [02:34]
Jess Connelly
Listen, we'll come back sometime.
- [02:36]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah. Next time. I really meant it when I said it. You were one of our audience's favorite guests. My favorite guest. And it was kind of, like, not unexpected because you're amazing. But I didn't. I hadn't read a bunch of your stuff. I hadn't listened to a bunch of it. I just been. So many people said, you need to have Jess Connelly on. So I started following you. I was like, oh, she's amazing. But I hadn't, like, dove into your world yet. So when we were having that conversation, I was like, whoa, this is so rich and so good. And one of the things we had talked about in the podcast is Breaking Free from Body Shame, which is a book you wrote how many years ago?
- [03:10]
Jess Connelly
I wrote it in 2020. I wrote it during the pandemic five years ago.
- [03:13]
Sadie Robertson
Yes. So we talked about that, and now we're gonna have a full conversation about that, because Lord knows that needs a whole conversation. And we're so sensitive to the fact that so many people listening to this podcast have either experienced that or are currently walking in so much body sh. And so, first of all, just thank you for writing a book on the topic. Thank you for being willing to talk about the topic. It's not an easy one to share and not an easy one to even dive into. So I'm thankful for that. And just wanted to ask you, though, before I get into your story, because last time I asked you the best piece of advice you've ever been given, and I heard this time you might have some best piece of advice, specifically, when it comes to body image.
- [03:57]
Jess Connelly
Okay, it's gonna seem simple, but I am telling you, it is life changing. It's life changing. It's. This is what the advice is. We're coming into summer. Everybody's gonna go on trips. You're gonna go on beach trips. You're gonna go on fun trips with your family. You're gonna do fun girls night out after you take a photo, as you should take a fun group photo. Do not crowd around the back of the phone to look at it as you would. As you. As we do. And someone once gave me this wisdom and said, like, hey, just don't do it. Actually, to be honest, this is how they gave me the wisdom. They just. I Said, do you want to see the photo? And they were like, no, I'm good. Whatever it is, post it. And I thought, that's revolutionary. And then the next time I took a group photo, somebody was like, oh, let's do the thing. Because what happens is we gather on the back of the phone and we start picking our own bodies apart, which actually, like, speaks death over the women around us. And. But then on the flip side, when we just say, like, I'm good, post it, do whatever, it is a ripple of freedom. It's so incredibly helpful. It's such a small thing. That is a really big deal.
- [04:59]
Sadie Robertson
Well, that is so good. And there's so many things in that I want to talk about, which we're going to get to in this podcast. And it's interesting. I kind of had to have that same moment for me where I am on camera a lot, whether it's podcasts or an ad or a TV thing or something. And finally, I just had to, like, stop caring about what I looked like all the time on camera, because it's like no one else is thinking the things I'm thinking. No one else is picking me apart. And so, you know, used to be like, okay, do you want to approve it? I'm like, no, it's okay. It's good because I'm not approving it because I'm worried about what I said, only looking for approval in the way that I look. And that's a waste of time, honestly, and energy and mental space. And so I kind of got to the same place. And I've heard you say this. You're like, now the risk in that is you see a picture online that you don't love. Yeah, but, but that's your face. That's your body. It's, it's who you are. And it might be a bad angle, but hey, Lord, bless you and keep you.
- [05:57]
Jess Connelly
I say that as a woman with an incredibly expressive face. So literally, I, I, I travel to teach, and so I'll be on St. I, I just warn churches up front, like, you are not going to get a good picture of me. It's not going to happen. I'm going to be like, yes or yes. You know, that's how I teach. Oh, yes, it's going to be bad. And also, But I'm also like, that's my face.
- [06:18]
Sadie Robertson
Oh, yeah. When you get like the candid from a conference and you're like, oh, okay. So there's not one. Okay, cool, cool.
- [06:25]
Jess Connelly
I don't smile at all while I'm teaching. Oh, good. I swear I wasn't angry. I promise I wasn't angry.
- [06:31]
Sadie Robertson
I know. I will always text to people back and be like, do you have any video footage? Maybe I could to give more context to the face you just said. But no, that's hilarious. I do want to hear your story. What led you into being the girl, the woman who wrote a book about breaking free from body shame?
- [06:47]
Jess Connelly
Yeah. Well, I'm. This is going to sound like it's going to be a long story, but I hope it's not that long. But truly, my earliest memory is feeling insecure in my body. It's as far as I can go back. And as a writer, as an authority, I'm a remember. Like, I tell my. I tell my narrative in story. And the earliest I can go back, I have this memory of riding in the backseat of my mom's car and running my hand down my body and thinking, if I could just cut off this portion of it, I would be like other people. I would be like my cousins. I would be. I would be more normal. And that's, for me, as far back as I can trace, like, my very first memory. So I have to ask, like, what came before that? You know, what. What implanted that lie in my head so early? I had to have been under five. And I know for me, it is rooted in the fact that I was born in the 80s, and so diet culture wasn't diet culture. It was just culture. It was just culture. Every commercial, every conversation, it was so normalized that, of course, everyone would want to lose weight all the time. That's what they would be talking about all the time. It was so normalized to talk to kids about their body, to say what was wrong about children's bodies in front of other people. And so I think I was just born into that. I don't think my family was especially bad at it. I think we were just normal. That was just normal. And so my earliest memory was like, this is not right. Something's not right. And I carried that through my childhood. Now, of course, what's remarkable is when I look back at pictures of my childhood, I'm a normal kid.
- [08:30]
Sadie Robertson
Isn't that wild?
- [08:31]
Jess Connelly
It's wild. But in my head, I was so abnormal. I was. There was something so massively wrong with me. And that was just cemented, you know, by media, by conversations, by things people spoke over my body. It's a part of my story, you know, and Lord knows she can't help it. But I have a sister who's Three years older than me, who's about a foot taller than me with brown hair, who is literally a model. She was a model when we were growing up and so that was interesting. She's also a genius and she's also the nicest person you ever met and she loves God more than anyone I know. So I just, I grew up like a few feet away from this other worldly person who was so beautiful, so praised for her beauty, so praised for her insight and her wisdom and her intelligence, which she is so incredibly smart and so incredibly kind. But I just always was a few feet away thinking like, there's something, there's just something not right about me. There's just something not good. I remember telling my friends in high school, the first group of close girlfriends I had before I became a believer, I remember telling them one night, a sleepover, I just don't feel like you guys, like, I feel like something's wrong with me. And I remember being met with affirmation like, well, yes, it would probably be better if you went on a diet or you know, yeah, maybe, maybe you should work out a little bit more. And so that that message got cemented a little further. But honestly for me, when my with body image became dangerous and terrifying was actually after I became a believer. So I had a radical conversion experience when I was 15. Death to life, day to night. You know, one day just I. One day I knew I was not a Christian, I knew I was not a believer, I knew I did not have a relationship with God. And the next day all I could think about was Jesus. And I sat on my, my bed as a, you know, sophomore in high school, the day after I met the Lord, just flipping through my Bible and thinking, I want to spend the of my life telling people about God. And I think that was essentially for me, my call into ministry. And I have felt that joy and excitement and exhilaration around using my God given gifts for the good of others and his glory since that day. But really, really quickly I realized that my body, according to other people and according to culture was going to be what kept me from effectiveness in other people's eyes. And so I would have pastors comment on my body, I would have other Christian women comment on their bodies around me, and even kind of equate their beauty or their aesthetics or their thinness to their godliness, their righteousness, their self control. And so I received overtly and subtly these messages that didn't just underline what culture had told me about my body, but like twisted kind of a gospel knife in it. If you were godly, you would look this way. If you had self control, if you had these things in your life, this would not be such an issue for you.
- [11:32]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [11:33]
Jess Connelly
And so I just received all these really confusing messages that really continued to exacerbate my issue with my body. I didn't know what God said about my body, but when I heard godly people talk about their bodies, it felt very shameful. And so one night, I was in college, and I had all of these body image issues kind of baked into me already. And I was actually at a ministry eventually, and I heard another woman get up and share her testimony about an eating disorder. And she described her disordered eating behaviors, and she was talking about receiving freedom from them. But I heard her tell her story and what she did to engage in disordered eating, and I took it as a tutorial.
- [12:25]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [12:25]
Jess Connelly
And I went home that night, and I remember thinking, like, I'm not going to feel this way anymore. I'm not going to let this be my issue anymore. And so that was in early college. And so I began to engage in disordered eating behaviors, Both anorexia and bulimia in different types in different forms. And then, unfortunately, what happened is I was massively encouraged and praised.
- [12:53]
Sadie Robertson
That is the worst that happens so often. Yeah.
- [12:57]
Jess Connelly
People were like, now you are getting your. Your life together. And so at the time, I was already teaching the word. I was already even writing for a couple of different publications in. In my late teens, which was wild. But then those opportunities began to increase.
- [13:11]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [13:12]
Jess Connelly
And then, you know, churches that maybe would have, like, not listened to me before, but, like, well, now you. We definitely would want you to teach. And so there were people.
- [13:21]
Sadie Robertson
Do you think it was actually because of that, or what. What do you. Was that a coincidence, or do you feel like some of it was that? Friends, we all know that marriage can be hard. Christian and I have had easy days and hard ones just like everybody else. But for us and for our family, it's so important that we stick together through it all. And that's why I'm proud to tell y' all about Covenant Eyes. They've always had a heart for helping couples, especially in a world where we're surrounded by technology and distractions. Victory by Covenant Eyes is a tool designed to help protect your marriage and build real trust through accountability. In today's world, where inappropriate content is literally just a tap away, that accountability matters more than ever. The software monitors screen activity and sends reports to your accountability partner that can Be your spouse or trusted friend to open up a space for honesty and communication. I have talked about this on this podcast several times, but I know the power of accountability and just having honest conversations. And that especially can be so powerful in marriage. And so this is just a tool to make it a little easier. This is not about shame or guilt. It's about protecting what matters the most, your relationship with God and with each other. Marriage is supposed to mirror the way God loves us. Faithful, forgiving, and full of grace. And Covenant Eyes can help make that happen. Friends, I just so encourage you to do this. You know, I always talk about that verse, confess your sins to one another and you will be healed. There's no sense in struggling in the dark. This is a path towards healing and we encourage you to take it. So if you're married, engaged, or even just dreaming about the future, I can't recommend Covenant Eyes Enough. Go to CovenantEyes.com Sadie to learn more and start your journey towards a healthier, stronger marriage today. That's CovenantEyes.com Sadie.
- [15:01]
Jess Connelly
I think some of it was that and some of it was. Some of it was overtly said. Like, it almost seemed like, well, you're getting your life together. It wasn't just like, well, you're. You look better now aesthetically. It was like, you seem to be the full package, so you must internally be. Also be experiencing some increased righteousness or godliness or sanctification. So, you know, some of it may have just been normal life. And I received the lie and believed the lie. Some of it was overt. And so that really led me just down an incredibly dark path where I stayed for about 10 years. And then after the birth of my fourth son, my fourth kid, my third son, I began to engage in some disordered behaviors again to lose the baby weight. Actually, my husband and I are local church leaders and we had moved to a new church where he was going to pastor. And the church that we moved to, almost as like an initiation ceremony would. Would gift pastors this weight loss plan where you took this kind of crazy supplement and went on a really extreme diet. And it, they, they had all done it, all the pastors at the church had done it. And they were like, actually, you know, we want to just gift you guys this, this expensive program where you take these supplements and you, you know, eat under a thousand calories a day for a certain amount of time. And we all do it and we thought you'd love it. And I, I had just had my fourth son, and so I was like, okay, all right, I'll do it. And for me, it brought all my disordered eating behaviors just back full force. And again, I was massively praised. Now I finally lost the baby weight. Now I've by this point I'm a mommy blogger and I'm starting to talk to publishers about book writing deals and I'm teaching at more places. And I went forward kind of in that season, that second season of just extreme darkness for about 18 months and something broke in the middle of the night and I was like, I cannot live this way. God has brought me so much freedom in so many other areas of my life. I've based my entire life on a kingdom minded principle and I do not have a kingdom minded principle about this. This cannot be right to be harming myself privately and calling it freedom publicly.
- [17:19]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [17:20]
Jess Connelly
And so that led into about a 10 year exploration for me of learning really what God's word said about the body. Really just developing a theology of the body, which I didn't before, and understanding what freedom really looked like and understanding the path of how most people walk to freedom and doing that myself. And then about 10 years after that moment is when I ended up writing Breaking Free from Body Shame.
- [17:47]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [17:47]
Jess Connelly
Wow.
- [17:48]
Sadie Robertson
Your story is. I feel like probably hitting so many people in so many ways right now because I can think about my own story and different things and a time in my life when I picked up some disordered, not only eating, but thinking patterns and all of that. And then that was the time I was most praised for how I looked. And that's confusing because like you said, it's like, okay, this is like getting such good feedback, but I am miserable and I'm losing myself in it. And then all my thoughts, instead of being towards things that actually matter, are also self absorbed into what I look like, what I'm eating. And that that's what my whole day, you know, began to revolve around. And it's so interesting because I've been think about this with even just being pregnant, just how many people comment on your body in a million different ways. You know, I mean, before I was pregnant, you know when people like guess like, oh, are you pregnant? Do you think you're pregnant? Then you get in your head, you're like, do I look pregnant? All these things. And then like you get pregnant and then people are like, oh, you're so small, you're so small, you're so small. Or oh, you're so big, you're so much bigger than I thought or whatever. And like, it's like every day I have, like, somebody say something different. And I've had. It was so interesting. I was thinking about this because recently someone was like, oh, my gosh, you don't even look pregnant. You're so small. And I. And then the next day I wore a different outfit, and someone said, are you sure it's not twins? You popped so soon. And I was like, how do you. Like, in your mind, coming from my past, where those thoughts would have taken me to a dark place? Like, how do I receive those thoughts and not let it get to me and change the way that I am in the pattern that I am? And I want to talk to you a little bit about that because you had, like, this 10 years of, like, really hard and then 10 years of kind of freedom before you even wrote the book. Nowadays, like, when comes to your view of your body or people commenting on your body, like, how do you not go back to the place you've been before and really stay in that, like, breaking free of body shame, like, stay in the freedom of that.
- [19:47]
Jess Connelly
Yeah. Well, what's interesting is what's wild is most of us began to receive negative or positive messages that had a negative undertone about our bodies when we were kids. And what you know about kids having sweet kiddos is kids cannot accept or reject a message that is spoken to them. They don't have the authority, and so they just receive it. And so because we are born into that and we grow up into that, then we inadvertently believe this lie that we have to accept any message spoken over our body. Even after we're not kids, we feel like, right, this comes at me, so I have to receive it. And that's especially difficult when it's someone we love or someone who may even actually be an authority to us, a parent, even as we're adults, or a leader or a pastor or somebody we respect, Whether they're speaking about us or they're speaking about themselves or they're speaking about other people, we just. We do the thing that we always did of, like, I received this. And so one of the first things that I learned about messages received about my body is I don't have to accept them. I don't have to receive them. So I have a couple of different options. When someone says something negative or positive about my body that may even actually hit me negative in a way they don't know, I've got options. So I can courteously and calmly and gently, if I have a relationship with them, and I feel like it might help Them or serve them. I can say, hey, I know you mean well. That is actually not helpful. And I could tell you my story and tell you why, but it might just help me. If you don't say things like that, I can actually just walk away. I can change the conversation. I can go to them in another moment and say, like, hey, again, I know you mean well. I'm not making you the enemy. Because the enemy of our souls is the enemy. You're only saying what you've heard other people say. I just. I have different options. If I have a friend who's speaking about her. Her body negatively, I have to ask.
- [21:41]
Sadie Robertson
You too, because that's so common. And then that even puts you in a weird headspace too. When you hear someone else telling their body, when you're looking at them, you're like, okay, if you think that about you, what do you think about me? Like, there's so many different ways you can take that.
- [21:54]
Jess Connelly
I had to start. I had to stop a conversation with someone two days ago who was talk. Who was talking negatively about their body. And I said, like, I'm gonna have to pause you right there because. Because you're obviously so much smaller than most of the people who are listening to us. And again, I didn't shame her or embarrass her or say it in any kind of way. But I do wanna pause. Cause we don't wanna talk about our bodies like that. So I have a light way and I have a not as light way. And it depends again, on the relational equity I have with them. So the light way is I say, hey, don't talk about my friend like that. Don't talk about my friend like that. And when I say that, it just kind of cuts the conversation and it helps her hear. Like, right. I was just doing that because again, our friends, our family, the people we're speaking to, they're not the enemy. The enemy of our souls is the enemy. Or I can go a little more low and a little more humble and maybe in a more neutral moment and say, I just. I want to give it to you straight. Like, every time you talk about your thighs, every time you talk about your wrinkles, every time you talk about how you've gained weight, not only does it break my heart because I feel like you're just missing out on who God made you to be, but also it actually makes me feel shame about me. And I don't wanna think about my thighs like that. I don't wanna think about my size like that. I don't wanna think about my wrinkles like that. I wanna bless my body. And I'll tell you, Sadie, one of my favorite things about this is that since I've started to teach other women, like, this is how we can do this is women will do it back to me. So if I think I'm saying something that's like, chill or no big deal, like, you know, I'm over 40, so if I'll be like, oh, my Lord, my forehead is like, really, it's really got some stuff going on. Or like, my eye crinkles are just moving today. My like, don't talk about my friend like that. And I'll be like, heard, Amen.
- [23:39]
Sadie Robertson
Heard, received. I love that. It's so true though. It's so interesting because when you're talking about yourself like that, you don't think it's gonna hurt somebody else. You're really. You're not intending it to even. You're just. You feel that about yourself and you're sharing it. Whether you're sharing it because you really believe it, whether you're sharing it because you need affirmation and are searching for affirmation from someone else to say it or. Or whatever, but. But what it does do, because we're all women and you are yourself, is like, I was never thinking about your thighs. So you said it. And now that you're saying that now I should think about my thighs. It doesn't make you start thinking about their thighs. It makes you start thinking about your thighs.
- [24:15]
Jess Connelly
Yes.
- [24:16]
Sadie Robertson
And so I think that is like something that you don't really think about a lot, but it is something to be intentional about because not only is it not right or fair to you, but even to your friend who's listening because it sets it up for comparison and like, makes you feel like you need to work on something. Okay, mamas, let's be real. Finding shows that you can actually trust for your kids is not easy. You want something fun and engaging, but also filled with truth and goodness that sticks in them. Well, that's why I'm so excited that we found Minnow. It's our go to streaming service because it's packed with shows that entertain and support our kids faith journey at the same time. A few favorites in our house are Veggie Tales, Young David, God's Greenhouse. We love sea kids as well. And the best part, it's completely ad free so you never have to worry about what might pop up while you're not looking. Minnow is a game changer. During quiet time, car rides or even just whenever we're getting ready for dinner or getting dinner ready and I need to put something on. It gives me such a peace of mind. Just knowing the content is helpful for my girls to grow spiritually and not just keeping them busy. I love that it sparks their curiosity about God and the Bible. It is awesome to see their little minds light up with big questions. I recently really noticed the power of what she's watching because it took my daughter Honey to a faith based movie and ever since then she would not stop talking about Jesus and baptism and she's wanting to pray more, she's even wanting to preach and it really all is because of what she saw. It just like really touched her heart. And so that's what Minnow is creating a space that really does spark kids curiosity and makes them ask great questions as they're just being entertained. So visit gomenow.com to start your free trial today. Plus you can use my code whoa. To get your first first month free. This is a web only exclusive offer so make sure to sign up on the gomenow.com website with the code Whoa. Wh o a to get your first month for free. One thing that I think is so beautiful about when you share your story and you've said this before, is that you don't share the details of your disorder because when you heard the details, that's actually what gave you like the guidelines for how to do it. Talk a little bit about that. Like even in people opening up and what they're struggling with, like how do we open up to the right people to get help but not like share so much with other people in our disorder that it makes. Gives ideas for other people to step into that. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's a tricky one.
- [26:45]
Jess Connelly
And as much as I don't want people to feel shame about their body image, I don't want women to feel shame about anything. So if you're someone who you're, you're hearing that and you're thinking like, oh, I have done this before, I've shared the details or you know, I've, I've spoken negatively about my body again and again. Again and again. Number one, I would just say shame off you.
- [27:03]
Sadie Robertson
Yes.
- [27:04]
Jess Connelly
Because what actually changes the world is when we change our behavior and our thought patterns and our language and our. And the people around us see it so true. So, so shame off you. First of all, there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. But that being said, it is difficult, it is difficult to Know who you can share what you're going with, who you can confess. And I would never want another woman to say, like, well, I don't know who I can talk to about it. So I. I'll just keep it in the dark. I just won't talk about it. And in that case, I will say definitely. A good boundary line is if you have another friend who you know is struggling with body image issues, she may not be the best person to pull you out. You may be able to say, like, hey, let's fight for each other. Let's read Breaking Free From Body Shame together. Or any book that you feel like might serve you. It doesn't have to be mine. Let's read it together so we can encourage each other. But let's be really careful not to glorify our sin in a way or glorify what feels broken or heavy for us in a way that might make it look appealing to one another or to anyone else. And, yeah, that was such a priority for me because I did actually learn how to do disordered things. Hearing someone else almost, almost absolutely inadvertently giving me a tutorial. So when I wrote Breaking Free From Body Shame, I had to bring in clinical help because I said I want this to be safe for someone who maybe is struggling so that they might be in a facility. And one of the most beautiful things that God has done is that I've now heard of, and I've actually traveled to different eating disorder facilities where they are using the book. And I'm so thankful to say it feels that safe for them. But I had different clinical and professional perspectives weigh in on the book to say, like, does this feel safe for someone who might be in the thick of it? Or maybe on the alternate end, someone who might just be, like, struggling with their body image after a baby or feeling insecure about some brokenness in the body that they're. That they're dealing with. But another tip that I would just give for anyone who maybe is struggling is really, really pay attention to the different words that you use that, again, are totally acceptable in our culture. So my kids know, like, the F word in our house is fat. Like, we do not say the F word. We don't say the F word about our dog. We don't say the F word, certainly about a human, and we just don't. But on this, on the flip side side, the other word we don't use is S K I N Y I N N Y. Because in so many other ways, like, people have felt attacked by that word. But we're, I just taught them like, let's don't use these labels. We don't need to. They make people feel a certain way. And so I would even say just watching the language you use to talk about your body or other people's body and of course, yeah, maybe, maybe some of the more broken things that you do. And, and one last thing on this, I know, I'm just like going for it.
- [30:04]
Sadie Robertson
So helpful. No, I'm like, thank you, keep going.
- [30:07]
Jess Connelly
But a lot of people, when they start to step into freedom, they do realize that a lot of the rhythms or patterns that they do are actually disordered. So this could be as simple as maybe like pouring food or pouring water on your food when you want to convince yourself not to eat anymore. Or saying language, for example. Now my whole family knows. All my friends, friends know. Things we don't say around the holidays is like, well, we gotta exercise to work this off because we don't earn food and we don't pay for food. Like, we don't, we don't punish our bodies to be able to nourish our bodies. And so even you might find that like the more you step into freedom, you'll realize like a lot of this is actually rooted in shame.
- [30:50]
Sadie Robertson
So true.
- [30:52]
Jess Connelly
And so I would just say grace and peace as you realize like a lot of this may be in there. And I hope, I hope for me, I'm always learning new things in that way. Not so that I like live scared and small and like, oh gosh, I can't say the right thing, but I just continually want God to be transforming the way that I talk into a more kingdom minded perspective.
- [31:10]
Sadie Robertson
So true. That is so good and so helpful. And you know, I remember back in the day whenever I was kind of walking through that and walking out of it, there was a friend of mine, one of my greatest friends, but she was also struggling with it. And I remember thinking, okay, this is a safe place because we both struggle. But we struggled in different ways. And I shared something and I actually said how much I weighed. And she was like, I can't hear that. Like I can't hear that number. And it, I, I didn't mean to say it for her to feel that way, obviously.
- [31:44]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Sadie Robertson
But it was my first wake up call and like, whoa, like what I'm saying it like you're hearing it in the context of where you're at and that's messing with your mind. And she had actually just gotten rid of her skill. Like I didn't know the context of what she was walking through. And so, yes, like, words matter. Numbers are triggering things like that. Even sharing it with a close friend, like, you have to discern who and where and what's right. And like you said, if someone else is struggling, that might not be the person that y' all confide in one another. Because oftentimes, like, you unintentionally can bring each other back into those patterns. Not that you can't. I mean, we also encourage each other so much, and we walk out of it together. But there was just that little time in history where I felt like we were both too vulnerable to where we were at. And then also, I remember in a dating relationship, whenever I was really struggling, I not brought this up to anybody that I was struggling, but I had developed a lot of different patterns, and I didn't even realize it was necessarily unhealthy, because in my mind, I had convinced myself that it was just me, you know, trying to be, you know, fit and trying to be healthy and all this stuff. But it had really gotten into more disordered patterns. But because I didn't, like, recognize it from a word I had heard, like, anorexia, like, bulimia, I didn't notice that, like, oh, this is so unhealthy. Well, I really got down this bad path. No one knew. No one had called me. No one said anything. So I was like, okay, I guess, like, it's fine. And no one had really commented on me losing weight. Whatever. The people just said I looked good. And I actually shared with my boyfriend. I was like, hey. I was like, I think I might. I think I might be, like, struggling with this. And I, like, mentioned this disorder. And he goes, yeah, I've noticed. And that was all he said. And it, like, affirmed it, like, as in, if, like, oh, you've noticed, and I should be doing it because maybe I look better now. And why would you notice? You didn't help me. Like, you didn't say, oh, you don't have to think like that. You don't have to live like that because you're beautiful. It was none of that. It was just like, I've noticed.
- [33:55]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [33:56]
Sadie Robertson
Then that sent me down, like, a whole, like, you know, another year of doing the same thing. Because then I thought, okay, well, people are noticing, and they're not worried for me. They think, this is good. I look good, whatever. And that was such a toxic time in my life. And so I say it. To say, using wisdom on who you share it to does matter so much. And, you know, you can discern in your own life who that needs to be. And maybe it's a counselor, like a true outside source that is trusted, who can truly hear what you're saying and speak truth into it. Obviously, a Christian counselor is who I would recommend. Pastor, mentor, mother. You'll know in your life who that needs to be. But it is so, so important to that point. Gosh, I'm just thinking there's so many different directions we could go from here. But I do want to talk about this aspect, because you have a daughter. I have two daughters. I feel like that did change a lot of the way that I talked about myself. Even the way that I got dressed in front of them, the way I do my makeup. Like, because even the other day, my daughter, she's like, why do you wear makeup? And you're faced with this question of, like, okay, why do I wear makeup on? Why do I wear makeup? What am I going to say to her? Because this really matters. And I was like, you know, I wear makeup because I think it's really fun. I think it's fun to get dressed up. And, you know, that's something about being a girl that we get to do that's super fun and creative. And she was like, yeah, it is really fun. I was like, yeah, it is. Said nothing about the way that I look. Said nothing about makes me pretty. Nothing like that. It's just really fun. And we get to do this as girls, and it's just a fun way to be creative. But, like, then I'm asking myself, but is that really why, you know, do I wear makeup because it's just fun, or do I actually sometimes feel like, no, I need to because I look better and because people respond to me differently when I do. You know what I mean? Like, it challenges you when you have a daughter that you're raising and you want her to have such a healthy perspective of herself because you see her for how beautiful she is. How has that changed your language? And the way that you think about all of this summer with little kids is a whole different kind of busy. You know, there's less structure, more go with the flow, and somehow way more chaos, too. That's why I'm so excited to introduce you to Beam Kids all in one super powder. I've tried lots of other kids supplements, and every single one comes up just a little short. Some have greens, but no probiotics. Other have vitamins, but no fiber. And don't even get me started on those healthy gummies that are basically just candy in Disguise. There hasn't been a single product that's brought everything together in a way that I actually feel super good about until now. Beam Kids is packed with over 40 essential nutrients, including greens, fruits, vitamins, pre and probiotics. Literally all the the things. Beam gives kids everything that they need for healthy growth, strong immune systems, and steady energy all day long. It's pediatrician formulated, third party tested and co created by my friend, Olympic gold medalist and supermom Shawn Johnson. With 87% less sugar than other low sugar gummies and 13 times the nutrients, this is one of those rare products that actually just feels like a parenting win. Plus, kids are going to love it too, because it's chocolate flavored chocolate milk flavored. The. That is. My daughter loves chocolate milk and I'm always like, oh, I feel so bad. This is like, so sugary. So it was so nice to have a great switch from like sugary chocolate milk to chocolate milk that's actually good for her. Super excited about that being our routine now. And now is the perfect time to try it because Beam is offering an exclusive deal for my listeners. For a limited time, you can get up to 35% off plus two free gifts when you go to shopbeam.com Sadie and use the code Sadie at checkout. That's shop beam S H-O-P B E A M.com Sadie. Use the code Sadie for up to 35% off and two free gifts. Seriously, less stress for parents, better nutrition for kids, and no more arguing over veggies. Get yourself some Beam Kids super powder and have one less thing to worry about this summer.
- [38:02]
Jess Connelly
Oh, it's. It's changed everything for me. So when I, I first began this kind of journey for myself, my youngest son is 12, so my daughter is five years older than him. So she was about five when for me, something shifted and I was like, no more. I'm not living like this anymore. And so I would say most of her sentient memories of me are either getting free or free. And that being said, I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg. This is what I'm gonna say about my daughter. Her Gloriana Eloise. We call her Glory. I don't know if Glory is free because I got free or if I'm free because Glory's free. I don't know. Like, I don't know who influenced more sweet, but she is the most free woman I know.
- [38:51]
Sadie Robertson
Wow, that's so cool.
- [38:53]
Jess Connelly
And it makes me so hopeful for the women coming after us, you know, it Just makes me incredibly, incredibly, incredibly hopeful for the women come coming after us and the women who are at least affordable, you know, if not like the opportunity to be in safe spaces regarding their body image from birth, but even like the opportunity to be in spaces where they see people having their minds changed and renewed by God's word and developing a kingdom minded perspective. But so, yeah, it changed everything for me because all of a sudden I felt almost in a way how I assume the Lord feels about us. Because I wanted to stand in front of a bus for her, anyone that would speak negatively over her in any way, shape or form. And I, you know, I wanted to be like, you are going to have to come through me if you want to speak death over her. And then I realized, like, that is actually what Jesus did for us, you know, to say, like, the lion of the tribe of Judah speaks over our bodies and says, this is good. I made it good. No one can change it. No neglect, no obsession, no brokenness of the world, world, no pain, no sickness, no aging, no nothing can change what he has made. Good.
- [40:09]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [40:11]
Jess Connelly
And so I think just feeling that for her made me feel it even a little bit more for myself.
- [40:16]
Sadie Robertson
Yes, so true. That is the same for me. I was like, whoa, okay, this is how I feel about her.
- [40:24]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [40:25]
Sadie Robertson
Because this is how God made her and feels about her. This is how God feels about me.
- [40:29]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [40:29]
Sadie Robertson
Why am I like this? You know, like reading, like Psalms 139 and you're reading it through the context of your daughter and you're like, oh, but that's for me, like, I wasn't together in my mother's womb. Like, yeah, like, it just all of a sudden hits you in such a different way. And it's so beautiful. How I love. He said, I don't know what came first, like chicken or egg, but like, all of a sudden it's like, man, you find that freedom and there's nothing more than you want for your kids to believe that they're good, to believe that they're all that God made them to be. And then you're like, I'm the kid, I'm the child of God too. So I want to believe that for myself. Um, it's so good you've talked about, like, learning the theology of the body and how that was really important for you. Can you speak a little bit to that? Because a lot of people listening might be like, what is it? Like, what did you learn that, like, changed your perspective so much?
- [41:16]
Jess Connelly
Okay, let me hit some high points. Let me I'm gonna see if I can limit it to three. There are probably three really important things that I learned about the body, that, that maybe I had actually been like overtly told the opposite in Christian spaces, or maybe I had just subtly believed differently. So the first is this. This. This is life changing. Let's get ready, get ready.
- [41:40]
Sadie Robertson
Gear up, everybody. Lean in.
- [41:41]
Jess Connelly
The verse is this. And you probably already know this. A lot of your listeners might be like, duh, but I did not know this. That in God's word, specifically when we're talking about the New Testament, there are two words that are translated the same in the English language that actually mean, you know, really different things. That's the sarx and the soma. So the difference between the sarx and the soma is the flesh and the body. And the reason why this is really important that we know the difference between the sarks and the soma, because sometimes they're translated both as flesh or body in the New Testament, is that the sarx is our sinful nature, our flesh. That's what it's often called as our flesh, our sinful nature. It actually has nothing to do with the physical body, which is the soma. So the sark is this part of us that wants darkness, that wants brokenness. That is not who God made us to be. It's a broken desire for something that is not going to fulfill us. And on the contrary, the soma, the Greek word for body is soma. And it's good. It's a good thing. It's a beautiful thing. God made the soma. He called it good. In fact, you know, God makes the whole earth. And he says, like, good, this is good, this is good, this is good. But back in Genesis 1, when he makes man and woman, he says, this is muchness. Good. That's the word he uses. He says, it's very good. The Hebrew word there means muchness. Good, good. He says, it's just so good. So why this is different and why this is important. And one of the first things for me that I learned in the theology of the body is because a lot of times when we are hearing that the flesh is bad, the flesh is bad, the flesh is bad. We are receiving this inadvertent message, like, your body's bad. So this impacts us because we believe that our hunger is like a part of our socks, our physical hunger, our need for sleep would be like. We start thinking that that sucks. That's like some weakness in us. So we're taught again, subtly and overtly, that if you're hungry and you subdue that, you're somehow strong. You're subduing your flesh. Wow. But your soma's need for food is good.
- [43:46]
Sadie Robertson
Wow.
- [43:48]
Jess Connelly
Isn't this wild?
- [43:49]
Sadie Robertson
It's so good. I've actually never heard this before. My mind is blown.
- [43:52]
Jess Connelly
Your need for your soma's need for food, for sleep, for water, for care, for nourishment, all good.
- [43:59]
Sadie Robertson
Whoa.
- [44:00]
Jess Connelly
But we get this intertwined with the sarks and we believe, like, okay, well, if I can be hungry and not eat, then that makes me strong. That makes me even maybe self controlled, which is not actually what it's about.
- [44:11]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Jess Connelly
If I need sleep and I push past it, I'm strong. I'm subduing my flesh. You are not, in fact. Because the flesh wants ungodly things and rest is not an ungodly thing. Food nourishment for your body is not an ungodly thing. Now, can a desire for food be an ungodly thing? For sure. We hear all about gluttony, but that is so different and we have to know the difference. So I would say that is one of the first major things that I learned. Like, the sarks is one thing.
- [44:40]
Sadie Robertson
So good. And I see now why you got ready to deliver that. Yeah, that's life changing, actually.
- [44:46]
Jess Connelly
Yeah. Your soma's good. God loves your soma. He made your soma and he loves the needs of your soma. The sarek's bad. We don't want to mess with that. We want to put it to death. We want to kill it. But it's.
- [44:56]
Sadie Robertson
That's one question. This. And I'm probably gonna botch this because I can't even think of where the scripture is. But you know, it's Paul and he says something about, like, for no one would ever like, it's talking about taking care of, like, maybe it's about loving someone. Like, love yourself. For no one would ever mistreat yourself or like, not love your body. Like, he says that.
- [45:17]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [45:17]
Sadie Robertson
I've always been like, that's so interesting. Because he's like, well, no one would ever not love yourself. Like, no one would ever not love your own body. Right. And I was like, that's so weird because now, like, so many people, people don't love their own body. You breaking that context down, I was like, man, that's probably why, like, in the day it wasn't as confusing because those two things were so different. Where now those two things are so blurred and so it makes so much sense. Why we would think those things are bad because we're equating them with our flesh, and it's such a different thing. And also, like you said, you're kind of praised for those things, as if, like, you have good discipline. Like, oh, well, I put the food away even whenever I was hungry or I didn't go to. I only sleep this many hours or whatever. And it's like, we treat those as, like, a flex. But actually that's really not even good or healthy or discipline. That's just.
- [46:10]
Jess Connelly
It's certainly not glorifying God if he made our body to have these needs.
- [46:14]
Sadie Robertson
Interesting. Okay. So cool.
- [46:15]
Jess Connelly
Yeah.
- [46:16]
Sadie Robertson
Now I can't wait for number two.
- [46:17]
Jess Connelly
Okay.
- [46:20]
D
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- [46:48]
Jess Connelly
Number two is this. And that is, is that the body, the soma, actually really matters to God. And so I would say this was a message that we were hearing. The negative, the antidote to this, the wrong version of this, a lot more. Maybe in the 90s and the early 2000s, I feel like we've thankfully moved on a little bit. But in churches when I was, like a teenager in youth group, there was this kind of message of like, your body is all just gonna fade away and you're gonna go to heaven and this is not even gonna matter. The body's not even gonna matter. The body, like your spirit, it's your soul that matters. When actually, again, Genesis to revelation, the body matters a lot to God. The fact that Jesus came, our friend and savior embodied, actually matters. And the reason why it matters is because his death and his crucifixion and his resurrection is a crucial, essential part of our faith. And he is still an embodied savior. And in. In most of our eschatology, we're going to find that, like, we are going to have new bodies, but we're not going to, like, just drift away and, like, all of a sudden become air. You know, like, we're going to have resurrected new bodies. The body matters to God. And the reason why this has huge implications is because a lot of Christians, a lot of us can justify harming our bodies or muting the need of our bodies. Because we're like, well, this doesn't really matter.
- [48:20]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah, we don't prioritize none of this, really.
- [48:22]
Jess Connelly
It's just a. It's just a flesh suit. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I can abuse it, I can neglect it, I can treat it poorly, I can hate it, I can say what I want about it. I can do whatever I want to this body because it doesn't really matter. It's my soul that matters. But what we see biblically is actually like, the body, the soul, the mind, they're all one. They're all one. They're all us. And they matter to God. So I would say that would be number one, number two, and then number three. That also has wild implications about, like, receiving God's compassion when our bodies are broken, you know, because the brokenness of Jesus's body also really matters. The third one takes us all the way back to Genesis. So I actually was in an interview for Breaking Free from Body Shame, however many years ago when the book came out. And I remember someone said in an interview, they said, well, this is hard, right? Because there's not body image in the Bible. Like, there's not body shame in the Bible. We don't see body shame in the Bible. And I was like, oh, excuse me, ma' am. Body shame is actually the first sign of brokenness we see in Scripture. So what happens when Adam and Eve disobey God and they experience the effects of sin? They immediately cover themselves. They feel shame. And so this is wildly important because. Because I believe the enemy of our souls knows an incredibly effective way to keep us from experiencing peace, to keep us from experiencing oneness and unity with the Lord, to keep us from experiencing oneness and unity with one another, to keep us believing lives, to keep us from stepping into our callings, to keep us from feeling present, to keep us from believing God's faithfulness and truth over our bodies, to keep us from his compassion and his kindness and his gentleness, is that if we. If he can get us in this one area, if he can get us hating our bodies and feeling shame about them, it's over. Wild all it has just massive implications to how we experience God, how we experience one another, how we experience the world, how we step into what he's given us to do. And so I would just say, like, the theology of the body matters, and the enemy of our souls will always be attacking our bodies with shame. And yet, if the sun has set you free, you are free. Indeed. There is freedom. And we can actually Experience, if not complete freedom, a very beautiful version of it, this side of heaven.
- [50:53]
Sadie Robertson
That is so great and it's so true. And just to encourage the listeners out there, this is coming from two women who have experienced a lot of body shame in the past and who walk in freedom today. That doesn't mean that there's still not days you struggle. I mentioned, even with pregnancy, I fight the struggle of life. Like, okay, like so many people have said this, so you want to stay looking good, but then I'm pregnant, I'm going to get bigger. That's what I'm supposed to do. And it's like you get in your head even though it has nothing. Like, this is obviously the most beautiful reason to grow. But even people's comments in this stage can make you question my kids actually help me so much with it, like you said, because you think about what you want for them. And even with my C section scar, you know, that can be a tough one sometimes because it's like the most beautiful reason you have a scar. That's what brought your baby into the world. But it is a big scar on your body, you know. And I'm about to probably do another C section and have the scar again. But what's so beautiful is my daughter loves my scar. And she's always like, now that she, you know, my oldest can talk, she's like, and is that where the babies had come out of? And is that where we came out of? And she like, loves talk about it. And she's like, can I see your. Can I see where we came out of? Like, she loves. See the scar. She loves that scar. So it's become like such a beautiful thing for me to share. And so, like, man, you know, Jesus says, and this is not. Take this out of context, but like to be like the little children, you know, and when I think about the way they see themselves and they look in the mirror and they just smile and they just love what they see. And honey just twirls her hair because she loves her hair and talks about me as her mom and my scars and my. Myself. Like, I'm like, oh, God, give me the eyes to see myself the way that you see me, the way that I would see myself as a child and those that just that innocence. And so I feel like what's so cool is, yes, years ago I walked in a lot of disorder, and now I truly do walk in freedom. I am so happy with my body because of what it has done, how it has served the different things and just the power that God made it to be. And so I just want to encourage the listener. Like, just because this is so normal to you right now does not mean this is your story forever. There was a time where I thought, well, I ever go a day not thinking about these things and I don't think about those things anymore. Like you really can break free of the thought pattern. You can break free of the eating patterns, you can find freedom in this. And that is going to come through the way God sees you. You learning that friends counsel. Some people might need to actually go into a facility. I've had several friends who have actually gone and gotten treatment. And there is no shame in any avenue like that. You, if you need that, do that. This has just been so encouraging. I do want to give you an opportun opportunity to talk to the listener right now. Who this really has been a life changing conversation. Everything you said about the theology of the body, everything you said about how God sees you, everything you even pointed out about how the enemy would work, they're like, whoa, it all makes so much sense. Yet for years they've thought this way. Their whole friend group acts this way. They talk like this every day. What's like the first step for someone who's like, I'm ready to change. What do I do with all this information?
- [54:07]
Jess Connelly
Oh, that's such a great question. So the first, the first step is this, is that I want to say this up front because you might be feeling great while you listen to this interview. And then you might, you know, turn it off YouTube or turn it off on your phone and immediately go into a situation that makes you not feel great. And one of the first things that God showed me about breaking free from body shame is that it doesn't start with how I feel. So I don't have to feel free to act free. I don't have to feel free to live free. And so you might like finish listening and turn it off and move forward and look down and think. The problem is I still feel like I hit my body. I still feel disappointed in my body. I still feel broken. And I would just say like grace and peace to you. Your feelings, you know, you are not crazy. You live under the effects of a fallen world. And you have been again, overtly and subtly told incredible, incredibly broken and hard things about your body. So it is natural and normal to feel those things now. The feelings don't have to guide us forever, you know, they don't have to become facts in our life.
- [55:17]
Sadie Robertson
That's great.
- [55:18]
Jess Connelly
And so I would say if I could hand you a pathway. What I believe, kind of watching how people change over time in a variety of different ways and different areas, is that we have to have our mind renewed. We have to actually know truth. We have to say, like, I used to believe this, and now I believe this is what Tim Keller calls like, decatechization. We gotta be decatechized. We gotta say, I used to think this and now I think this. And so I would say get in a safe place where you can have your mind changed. Whether that's reading a book, whether that's going on your own journey in God's word and saying, I wanna just dive into God's word and I wanna know what he says about it. Do that. It doesn't have to be my book. It doesn't have to be anybody else's book. You can go straight to God's word. He's a much better communicator than. And so I would say have your mind renewed by truth. And then the second thing is, then you're gonna have to act free before you feel free. You're gonna have to start to see true truth about your body. Before you feel truth about your body. You're gonna have to look in the mirror and say, like, this is a good body. Even if you don't feel that way. You're have to walk away from the camera when people are taking the pictures. Even when you want to walk toward it, you're gonna have to, like, put on the shorts. Even though you maybe, like, maybe me have really extreme veins in your legs, you're gonna have to just put on the shorts and say, like, that's what my legs look like. I'm gonna have to live free before I feel free. And guess what? You're gonna set some other women free when they see your veins and realize, like, oh, that's what a lot of legs look like.
- [56:47]
Sadie Robertson
It's actually so true.
- [56:49]
Jess Connelly
They're kind of beautiful when you start to look at them. I'm like, my legs are a piece of art.
- [56:52]
Sadie Robertson
This third pregnancy gave me those veins too already. I'm like, wow, okay, that's new.
- [56:58]
Jess Connelly
That's what my kids like to trace. My kids are always like, wow, it is like a painting. I'm like, it is. In fact, it is.
- [57:04]
Sadie Robertson
It' work of art. Thank you.
- [57:05]
Jess Connelly
But, yeah, you're gonna have to have your mind renewed. Then you're gonna have to live free, and then you'll feel free. But if you don't feel free right now, it's not because there's something wrong with you. Yeah, it's not. Cuz you're broken. But the feelings don't have to be facts.
- [57:17]
Sadie Robertson
Oh, that's so good. The feelings do not have to be facts. And I think that's where my freedom comes from. Now that doesn't mean I still don't get feelings of that 100. That doesn't become a fact. Like, I don't let it go there because I know truth. It has to come through like this shield of truth that gets actually not true. You know, the belt of truth is on me. So it's like, I can't let that live here. And so I think that's the difference. It's not that you don't have the feelings, it's that you know truth, you have the facts. And so you walk in that daily freedom that was so helpful how you broke that down. And she's being very humble by saying like, you don't have to read my book, you don't have to read her book. But you probably should, because if you want more advice like this, she wrote a whole book on this. She dove into this and put all of her resources out there. And I want to say, because I think you might have mentioned when I was like, I've never heard that before. I think you might have mentioned that concept between the two last time around the podcast. Or maybe I heard it. But you know, it's funny, like, even hearing it again, it hit me in like a whole new way. And so you can hear these things that you might know or you might have heard, but it hits you in such a new way when you need to hear those things. And we're actually linking in the show notes today, her book and I think a Bible study, I mean, that you did, that you could actually do with your friends, you could do by yourself, whatever way that you feel like freedom might be a better fit for you to do by yourself or with friends. But I just encourage you so much. Click on that, get that book, get that Bible study, dive into it today. You're not alone on this journey of freedom. And Jess, I'm just so thankful for the resources you have put out there. It's so needed. Thank you for coming all the way to Louisiana to talk about this. And it just shows your heart and it's so beautiful.
- [58:50]
Jess Connelly
Thank, thank you for your leadership and your courage, for sharing your story too.
- [58:53]
Sadie Robertson
Thank you, friend Sam.