← WHOA That's Good Podcast
WHOA That's Good Podcast
Stop Letting Shame Win | Sadie Robertson Huff | Christian Bevere & Tori Masters
01:07:28
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- [00:00]
A
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- [02:25]
B
Thanks for having us. Truly a blessing and an honor and
- [02:28]
C
for giving us an excuse to hang out. This is amazing.
- [02:30]
B
Literally, we just had our first dinner by ourselves without kids or husbands last night. We were like, we've been friends for four years and we just had our first date. Oh, my gosh. It was really special.
- [02:42]
A
I totally get that. Any excuse, like, I have a girls conference coming up. And I was like, christian, could this. My husband Christian. I was like, christian, could this be one that, like, me and the girls go to? Because it's same when you're a mom. It's very hard to just hang out. And it typically goes like this. The moms hang out, the guys hang out, and the moms have all the kids, you know? So let's go, ladies. Way to get out of the house and do it. That's awesome.
- [03:06]
B
That's so fun.
- [03:07]
A
But you both, y' all are doing so many amazing things. Like, y' all are crushing it in motherhood, doing so many things in ministry. Christian, this book has been reaching so many people. You even have a podcast on it. Future Husband Present Prayers, which just pause there. Uh, a lot of you probably need to read a book like this. Future Husband Present Prayers. I actually just talked to someone. It was yesterday. She was like, I'm really struggling cuz I'm single and I want to find my husband. And do you have any advice? And I was actually sending her to some podcasts that I listened to. But this is the book I need to send her to. But I'm thankful that we're having this conversation because so many people are in that stage of waiting for their spouse. And you guys, we could talk about so many things. But I do want us to talk a lot about that today because y' all can speak so much into that. But before we get to that, tell us a little bit about who both of you are and then how y' all met.
- [03:58]
B
You start, J. Okay.
- [04:02]
C
We even said we're like, we need to have one line where we, like, finish each other's sentences. But we didn't.
- [04:06]
A
And you did it.
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C
Darn it.
- [04:08]
B
And here it is. We wanted the, like, step brothers moment.
- [04:11]
A
That is so funny.
- [04:12]
B
A little bit about us. I mean, we connected because I think we just have such similar values and, like, missions in life and have gone through a lot of the same stuff. And a lot of friends were like, y' all need to meet each other. And so, yeah, we're like, okay, we need to connect. And so I just happened to be in Nashville for some work and I think I slid into her DMs and was like, hey, if you're in town, we should totally double date. And it worked out. And then, you know, it's always funny cause you're like bringing your husband along and you're like hoping they connect. Well, they like totally bromanced it out on our date.
- [04:47]
C
My husband's always like, I don't need to be friend, like, you don't need to set me up with someone just because. And then it worked out.
- [04:53]
A
Yeah.
- [04:54]
B
And then every time more than we do, like they're like bummed that they're not hanging out and they're like jealous. And so then we ended up getting pregnant around the same time. And now our three year old little boys are starting soccer on Saturday together. And it's just been really beautiful to have. You know, we were talking about this this morning. It's like beautiful to have a friend you can have coffee with and that you can go shopping with or take a trip with, but like having a friend that when you're in the trenches and you can text and be like, hey, no, I need you to like go to war for me. Like, I need you to pray over me. Like it, I'll cry. Like it's so special to have those types of friendships where you're like, oh, I can trust that you're gonna go to the secret place for me. And so it's been beautiful to like cultivate that for, for four years now.
- [05:40]
C
Man,
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A
that's sweet.
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B
Because girlfriends, you know, like, I've gone through a lot of seasons where it's like, I'm a girl's girl, I love girlfriends. But there's healthy girlfriends and there's not so healthy girlfriend relationships. And to when you, when you have the real thing, it's something to cherish and to not take for granted. And so I truly thought we lived
- [06:05]
C
in Colorado before we lived in Tennessee. And like I came from Alabama, used to southern hospitality and Colorado. Colorado was good, but it wasn't necessarily warm and vibrant. And I came from thinking, is it me? Like, am I why I have no friends? And then so you have to experience those like good godly friendships is such a gift.
- [06:23]
B
Yeah.
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C
So cool.
- [06:24]
A
Well, let's talk about that for a minute. Because so many people ask the question, like, how did you become friends with your friends? How do you create that community? Because like you said, there are healthy friendships and there are not so healthy friendships. And so Many people desire healthy friendships, desire godly community. But it's so hard to explain, like, how to find that. But I think one thing that, you know, the Bible says, like, we overcome the enemy by the blood of the lamb and the power of our testimony. And I think just sharing, like, okay, this is how it happened for me. That doesn't mean it's going to happen like this for everybody, but there are some ways that you can position yourself for it to happen a little bit more likely. What was that for you? And how did you start finding those healthy friendships? Like, because y' all both moved to Nashville, right?
- [07:05]
B
She moved first.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And then we always talked about, like, what it'd be like to raise.
- [07:09]
C
They built their dream home in Florida, and we're like, that's great. But what if you traded that for community?
- [07:17]
B
And honestly, it was true. We did. We built our dream home. We loved it, but we were like, we have this beautiful house, but no one to fill it. And we felt, like, isolated inside of this castle. I mean, it wasn't. But for us, it felt like that. And. And so I feel like, in terms of just, like, practical tips, vulnerability always breeds vulnerability. And I feel like if you want surface friendships, talk about surface things, right? But, like, just like that verse you said, it's like, well, we overcome the land by the blood of the lamb and the power of our testimonies. And it's like, okay, if you're willing to go there, if you want deep friends, be a deep friend.
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A
That's good.
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B
You know, like, go there and don't be scared. Because I think when you let the walls down, and I think it's Brene Brown who's like, the most courageous thing you can do is be vulnerable. And you're scared to do because you're like, okay, well, what if they judge me? What if they don't? You know, like, that part of me, what if I'm not a good enough Christian? Like, what you get? And that's all the enemy. And so it's like, to fight back and just do it, to go there. And then you're like, oh, no, they actually love me for me. And it's like, my husband, I always say, like, intimacy is into me. You see? You know, like, you see the deepest parts of me and you love me still. And that breeds, like, a deep, deeper friendship. And, yeah, just being the friend, that's like, no, I am going to pray for you when I say I'm going to pray for you, and I'm not just going to, like, Ask, you know, the small questions I'm going to ask, like how you're really doing and actually care.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You know. Yeah.
- [08:56]
A
Because there's a difference.
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B
There is a difference.
- [08:58]
C
Yes.
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B
Yeah.
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C
I feel like on the other side of that is like, to be a good friend and to foster, whether it's platonic or romantic relationships, you have to actually know who you are and be like, you've delved into that territory. You know, you've let the Lord search your heart, you've gone through some things with him. So you're not just striving to be the good friend or to be the good girlfriend. Like, you know how to walk through that. And that's very much my story. Prior to meeting my husband, prior to meeting friends, I went to Auburn, graduated, moved back home doing the same job I did before college. I was like, this fiscally makes no sense. Like, on any chart, this makes no sense. And it was just a time of rediscovery, of healing, really taking accountability for, you know, a lot in my life, which I didn't do. All the things that were like my. I know I'm going deep real quick. That's kind of my emotions.
- [09:46]
A
Sorry, Love that we are all here for it.
- [09:49]
C
There's just so many things where I'm like, I could have said these friends were not good to me. I could have said this guy, this person wasn't good to me. But I also know the parts I played in that either as effect or cause. And so it was just a time of, you know, lord, pick out the things that are going to uproot. They're going to choke out those seeds that you want to plant. Like, maybe I wasn't a good friend because people weren't good friends, but maybe I can learn how to be a good friend. I can learn how to love despite thinking, what is this person going to give to me? Or, you know, being insecure to the point of, well, if they don't love me, well, like, I can't love them. Well, you know, there's just. There's so much there that it's like, it's both. And like, you need the right people to walk alongside of you, but we also need, like, that grit to be able to be a good friend in those hard season to. To love your spouse when they're not putting the toilet seat down or, you know, something. So there's just. I feel like there's so many lessons that are not always cookie cutter, not always easy, but in the Lord's kindness, it's like, it's worth journeying.
- [10:45]
A
That's so good. I love that. And that's so true. Because it's so easy to be like, well, this is why it's not happening. This is why it's not happening. But then the day you have to go, what can I do to like, start? Either it's like, what can I do to pick those things out? That's maybe sin in me. Or what is it that I could just do to maybe create friendships? Like, I haven't thought of. I remember when Christian and I moved back home. Well, to my home, not to his home. He's from Florida. We just talked about that. Y' all are all from similar areas, which is so crazy. We had a little mix up a second ago and thought. Tori said she dated him. And I was like, hold on. But no, that was just hilarious. But we all, you know, so he's from Florida, I'm from Louisiana. We dated whenever I was in Nashville and he was in Auburn. So we were like, all over the place. I had great community Nashville. He had great community in Auburn. We moved to Auburn for, like, two months. Covid hits. We moved back to Louisiana and, like, had no friends. And you would think, oh, you're from there. But, like, everybody went off to college. You know, you're so. I was so different than who I was in high school that I was, like, praising. And I was like, that is not going to be, like, where I go necessarily to find friends, like, high school friends, because I'm so different. Like, I. So, you know, where do we find friends? And I remember, like, a year went by, we had no community, and it was so hard. And we were like, oh, we had such good community in Nashville. We had community in Auburn. And so you constantly are like, should we just go back? Like, what. What does that look like? Or, you know, we have family here, so that's great. But we did want friends and we wanted a church family, wanted all those things. And then we're like, okay, well, what can we do, you know, to. To find that? Because we haven't done any. We're, like, waiting for someone to seek
- [12:23]
B
us out, you know?
- [12:24]
A
And so we had to start, like, getting plugged into a church and actually, like, showing up and wanting them to see we want to be known, you know. And then I started a Bible study and, you know, went and got coffee with people. You gotta show up and you gotta try. And like you said, I slid into her DMs, like, you gotta do the brave thing and go for it. And I love that book Brene Brown wrote, I read. Is it Dare Daring Greatly.
- [12:49]
B
I've watched it on YouTube.
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A
Oh, I love that Daring Greatly. I read it so long ago, but it was so impactful for me. And then Dare to Lead was so good too. But she talks about that bravery thing. Cause she talks about how when vulnerability is met with a lack of empathy, that's where she shame enters. And so it's hard because maybe you've put yourself out there before and it's like the person you know heard your story and they're like, oh, wow, sorry, you know, and didn't meet you, like empathetically, they weren't vulnerable back with you. And then you get shameful and insecure and go like, okay, I'm never gonna do it again.
- [13:19]
C
Yeah.
- [13:20]
A
But I think even just knowing that is helpful to go, okay, this is why I might feel insecure because that person didn't maybe meet me where I was at. But that's okay. Like, I'll keep going. I'm gonna keep showing up, I'm gonna keep trying to meet people. And so I love that Yalls friendship has blossomed the way it has. It's so beautiful to get to do MOT or just life alongside of someone and people who pray. I'm the same way. I was talking about my prayer group the other day. I just started crying because like there's just not enough words to express the gratitude you feel when someone like goes to the father on your behalf or your family. It's amazing. So I love that I'm in a season of life where complicated wellness routines is just not going to work. So I have been focusing on the easiest wins, things that fit into my day without making life harder. One of the biggest things for me has been getting enough protein. It is so simple, but it really does change how I feel. Changes my energy, focus, everything. And I am loving Taylor Duke's wellness protein. It fits into what I'm already doing. Instead of adding something complicated or new to my plate, I just add one scoop into my iced coffee smoothie. Literally just water sometimes, which is so easy. What makes this protein different is it's made from 100 grass fed bone broth. But you'd really never know that because it doesn't taste like that at all. It tastes smooth. It's collagen rich, made with ingredients that I feel good about me and Christian having, but not only us, our kids having, which is really the biggest win. I actually made Honey and Haven a smoothie yesterday with the chocolate protein and Honey said This is the best smoothie ever, mom. And that's such a win as a mom to find something they love that's good for them. I love that I can trust this brand. Taylor Dukes is a functional medicine nurse practitioner and a Christian mom. Everything about her brand is focused on being intentional, not the pressure to be perfect. TDW has their best offer right now. You can use my link shop Taylor Dukes well bonus.com Whoa. To save 15 off site wide anytime. Plus for the next 48 hours, everybody get this. You can also unlock two free gifts with any full size protein purchase. Check it out@shop.taylor dukesbonus.com Whoa.
- [15:28]
C
Can I say one thing on that? And this is gonna feel preachy and I'm, I just feel it so closely because I know we've had this in different parts of our story, but it's so the fear of man too in those scenarios when it's like, like but I did get rejected and I did get hurt and I can see that toggling to not wanting to put yourself out there. It can also toggle to like even the people that you attract, especially in romantic relationships. And I was totally the perfectionist, the like shame whisperer, like all of these things. And so if anyone's feeling those things, it's like it is valid to want to cover yourself. But CS Lewis said to love it all is to risk. And it's so worth it. It's so worth it to risk. And also I think the Lord meets us like if you tiptoe into that area and lean in to even my father in law writes on the fear of God all the time. And at first I was like, that's big. I just want to love God. But I found so much joy in that of like, wow. If I'm more concerned with like what happens if I don't risk or what happens if I don't reach out to those people or start their prayer group. There's just so much on the other side of the lies of shame that I think sometimes we hear that and it's just like offense, like don't go to that area retreat side something else. But there's so much on the other side side. And I know we'll get into that in other sides, but so true.
- [16:48]
A
I love that, you know, we, we talked about wanting to talk about dating and whatnot and kind of the gravity of even having this conversation is that there's so much on the other side of like people listening to this and maybe they're in a relationship where they realize oh, this is not actually what I want in my life. And maybe there's going to come a breakup. Like, that's a big risk. But at the same time, like, what you're setting yourself up for is meeting the right person and doing it the godly way. And the fruit that from that in the life and the legacy. I mean, the. The gravity of conversations like this is. Like, this is generations to come. We'll be impacted by people stepping into the right relationships, which is like, the coolest thing ever. And we all experience the not right relationships and then dating people. Well, and. And more in a godly way. So I want y' all to tell y' all stories. And then Tori was really cool. Before we started the podcast, we were talking about just the gravity of that. And people are going to be listening to this who might need to go break up with their boyfriend, or people are listening to us who might be like, I need to marry the guy I'm dating. Stop procrastinating or whatever it is. And you said it was actually a podcast you listened to that started to change things for you. So you want to start there?
- [17:55]
B
Yeah. So I. This. Okay. So this relationship. I've been in a couple. I would say two relationships prior to Chad were both, like, not great. It was the second one, it was more of the one that's like, okay, is this gonna end up being the one? Right?
- [18:13]
A
And.
- [18:14]
B
And it was Dawn Cherie Wilkerson and Rich Wilkerson. And they said, your spouse number one should be a good decision. Like, it should actually be a good decision. And your spouse is either your greatest asset or your biggest liability. They will either launch you or they will cap you in your calling. And I then had a dream. My boyfriend at the time was a musician. And the Lord gave me a vision because I prayed. I was like, okay, Lord, I have chills thinking about it. It was like I felt like my mountaintop moment a little bit, because I was like, lord, I don't wanna see through the lens of romance. I don't wanna see through the lens of my flesh. Like, I don't wanna see through the lens of almost wanting to prove everyone wrong by this working, you know, and especially when your friends, like, you're like, I don't think it's it. And you, like, wanna prove them wrong.
- [19:10]
A
You're like, no, this is my personality. It's gonna be great.
- [19:15]
B
And the Lord said, specifically gave me a vision that one night I was on stage holding up my Bible, preaching the word of God.
- [19:23]
A
Wow.
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B
And he was on Stage holding up a whiskey bottle and our children were confused. And it showed me the impact that that would have had on the legacy and the generations behind me because we were not equally yoked. And I broke up with him two days later because the next day was Christmas, so thought that was probably not put a pin in that one. But it was, it was tough because I was like, I actually care about him too much. It wasn't that he did anything wrong. It wasn't that I felt that he didn't deeply care about me. It was more of, no, this is not what God has for me. I was like, lord, I want you to show me if this is my husband or not. And if it's not, I care about him too much to keep this going because they will hinder him. And I don't want want that for his future wife. And like, let me care about him and his future relationship more than just like, not wanting to go through pain. And I've learned that as a mother too, of, you know, sometimes your kids have to go through pain to learn the lesson to get to the other side for the greater good. And a lot of people come at me of like, well, you would never let your kids, like, cry. And I'm like, no, I'm actually really, like, I'm a good mom, right? Like, I know that there's something here that if they can just learn it, it's going to be for the greater benefit of our family and for the greater benefit of them. And my father in heaven is such a good dad and he knows that if I can get through walking through the pain, that it's for not just my benefit, it's like for the generations to come benefit for our children's benefit. That wouldn't exist, right. If I can't make this, this hard decision right now, like the ripple effect that that's going to have, like, not only in my life, but like literally through generations, which is so crazy that every decision is so vital and so important. And so it really just, you know, came out of that advice where I was like, wow, thank you Lord for that vision. And, and I do kind of want to speak to the, the person who maybe already is married and doesn't necessarily feel like their spouse is their greatest asset and maybe is in the boat of like, oh, well, I actually do feel like they're capping my calling. Go to war in prayer, like in the smallest little, like day to day decisions like even Chad and I were talking about. Like, I do feel like Chad is my greatest asset he is, like, my biggest cheerleader ever. We have a hard moment with the kids. And I could just tell it was about to flip, where it was like, oh, we can either go about this day in frustration, or we can go about this day in gratefulness. And I was like, hey, babe, like, go take a minute. Like, go get yourself together. Because when you wake up and just all the needs are, like, so present, like, right when you wake up and you wake up in, like, fight or flight, right? Versus, like, having time with the Lord first. I was like, go have some time with Jesus. Take a shower. Like, you know, I got the kids. And he's like, thank you. And so he did, and he came back and was a blessing to our home the whole day. And so I just. I. There's so much power in prayer inside of that, too.
- [22:40]
A
I'm glad you said that. That's so good. And it's so true. Like, we live in a generation who, like, comfort is way too high on the priority list because there's so much that you do learn in those moments of pain. And I remember, like you said in motherhood, learning that, like, honey struggled with sleep and all the things. She was very colicky whenever she was a baby. And I remember one time I was putting her down, and we were at our home, and so she was in a pack and play in a little closet. So it was, like, not what she was used to. And I had done all the. And then I was like, I'm going to have to just let her cry. And so I remember, like, sitting outside of the door and listening to her cry. And I felt like the Lord just, like, gave me a picture that, like, that is how he is with me. Like, he's right there at the door. Like, he didn't leave me. He didn't forsake me. Like, he's not doing anything against me, but he is going to let me cry because, like, I do have to learn to go through this. Like, I actually. There is something in this moment, in this closet moment that I need to go through. And it was really cool because it mirrored something I was going through spiritually. And I felt like God was distant from me. And I was like, oh, you aren't distant. Like, you're here. But I do have to go through this. And that is true in relationships a lot of times, especially, like, breakups. And I think it's cool that you mentioned, like, there were two relationships. One was not good, not healthy. The other one was actually not necessarily bad. Like, he was a good person. You Loved him as a person, but it wasn't where you were going. And I had similar situations like that. It was like, I used to not date well at all. Then I actually started dating well. And that was even a little bit more confusing because I was. I was like, I mean, I could marry him. Like, he's a good person, but I don't know if he's like, it's the right picture for my life or where I'm going. And, Christian, I know you write about that, and you talk about that a lot. It's like, you didn't just want to date. Like, well, you wanted to date God's way. What did that look like for you as you started to date well, and discerning, like, okay, this is good, but who's my husband?
- [24:29]
C
Yeah, I. In the book, I call it, like, the eenie, meeny, miny, moe effect. It's like, okay, which Christian guy should I marry? Because I was told, you know, by church leaders, just find someone that's cute and loves Jesus and you're good to go. I was like, if that worked, we really could just swap husbands.
- [24:45]
B
And it all worked out.
- [24:46]
C
And I. You know, I think that was good advice, but it's just, like, the starting point. It's like, find someone that loves the Lord that, you know, you're attracted to, you have chemistry with, you, believe in their character, but then, like, set up a vision for your marriage. Like, there. There is these qualifications, because dating is an evaluation. Like, you should be evaluating something rather than just two. Two check marks on a sheet.
- [25:07]
A
Really good.
- [25:09]
C
And, you know, I. I don't feel like I even started to date well. I feel like I more just was bumbling through and then got to this point of desperation where I remember sitting in my mom's bedroom floor and just crying. Because, you know, similarly, I had two relationships. One where I was like, you are so kind in your heart, but you don't know the Lord, and that's going to cap us. And then someone else that loved the Lord and then.
- [25:32]
A
And.
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C
But it was just that, like, we both. We both felt it early on, but we thought, oh, this is what Christians do.
- [25:37]
A
We just need to make it.
- [25:38]
C
We just. We're supposed to figure it out. You know, people have thoughts on that. But I. I really do believe that you should be excited. You should be energized, that you should feel like your yes carries merit. Because no matter who you marry, no matter who you are, you're gonna have days where you're gonna feel attacked or you're just gonna feel drained or you're just not gonna sleep good because the kids are crying. And so like, your yes has to be your why. Y. I remember in child short, the Lord led me to natural where I thought, no, I was going to be drugged up. And he just gave me a conviction for it. That's, you know, not everyone's story. But I think it was purposeful for something he wanted to teach me. And the biggest thing that I walked away with from the first time was like, shoot. Your why has to be so strong
- [26:21]
A
because when the rubber hits the road,
- [26:23]
C
like, you need to know, like, why you're doing something. And I think that's so true for marriage too. It's like on the hardest days, I don't question did I make a mistake? Because all of the things in my prayers and my stories and God's confirmation points to I was there. I was leading that yes. And more than that, I look at my husband and I would be hard pressed to find someone that loves the Lord more, that is faithful, that is loyal, that puts up with all of my qualms. Well, like, when people are like, don't you know that seven year itch? Do you feel like maybe you could have done different? I'm like, new anything. I'm like, shoot, you could have done different, but you're stuck with me. But yeah, in that evaluation time, it's. It's hard. And there's so much of like, when you know, you know. And how do you really explain that to someone? I knew because of. I had the times of I didn't know and it became clear. But then also I just got to this place of like, lord, I need you to teach me this. Like, I'm blind because I've kind of dated the world's way. I've tried to date in the church, which was not bad, but there's just, I think there's more life to discover. There's more of like, I'm going to actually trust you with this decision rather than just find someone and be like, okay, God, can you stand? I was like, blessed and I'm allowed to marry this person. And so I started praying for my future husband. Like, I was single, the prospects were really small. Like you said, moved back to the town where it was the same guys from high school. And I thought, I've either dated them or my friends dated them. I don't know where we're gonna pull from, but just started praying and I thought, I don't know how I'm gonna meet somebody. I Do know there's a lot of stuff to heal. It looks like this is a tough terrain, but if you're gonna guide me to that and if it is a desire that you want to walk in, I believe that you're gonna do it, and I want to do it your way. So, again, there's so much that I could just talk about forever, because I love this topic, because the Lord showed up so much and did exceedingly, abundantly, more than I thought. But he gave me dreams of confirmation. He gave me words to pray, ways to intercede for him that actually aligned. Once we were married, I was like, you were going through that at that time.
- [28:27]
A
That's crazy.
- [28:28]
C
Isn't it amazing? Because when you start praying for someone you never met, you're like. Like, pray you have a good day.
- [28:34]
A
So true.
- [28:35]
C
You wake up some days, you're like, oh, I need to go to war. I mean, the same thing for your friends, too. You might just start. We were talking last night. You had a dream of someone, and you're like, I'm just praying for you. And. And it aligns. And that's one of my favorite things about prayer, because Jeremiah 33.3 says, you know, call to me, and I'll show you great and hidden things. And there's just such an invitation of prayer, of interceding, of believing past what looks like natural and plausible that just astounds me, even when, you know, we're both walking through things. So we're like, okay, we're still. Still praying for that. There's times when the Lord answers quickly and there's delays, but I've seen too much and been amazed too many times to start to doubt his goodness.
- [29:14]
A
Great. It's so true. The weather is finally warming up, which means it's officially grilling season, y'. All. I live for these warm summer nights when my husband is grilling. Shout out to Christ, kids running around. We're gathering everybody to our house for a cookout. It's just the best. And for us, you already know what's on the grill. Good ranchers. Good ranchers is one of those things that I feel so good about serving because it's 100American meat. It's pasture, raised sourced from local farms and ranches, has no antibiotics and no added hormones. And best of all, it ships straight to my door. I know I'm feeding my people the very best. I get so excited whenever we get a good rancher's box because they just lodge custom boxes, which is a game changer, so you can actually build Your own box with exactly what your family enjoys. So if you want more sigs for grilling chicken for easy week night dinners, it's all yours. I love being a good rancher subscriber and keeping the freezer stocked. Meals are way easier, especially in busier seasons of life. Especially, you know, if you're not used to having great quality meat in your fridge, which I'm not. And now I look in my freezer, I'm like, oh, we could have steak tonight. Like, how nice is that, y'? All? I love it. We also love chicken nuggets. I'm not gonna lie. We're such a chicken nugget family. They have the best chicken nuggets that you actually feel good about serving your family. Cuz they have great ingredients. And so when you subscribe, you get free meat for life, which is amazing. And you can use my code Whoa. To get $25 off your first order. That's free meat with every order and $25 off your first order with the code, whoa. When you start your plan@goodranchers.com Again, good ranchers.com American meat delivered. It's so cool because like you said, sometimes you get the answer quickly and sometimes you don't. But at the end of the day, as life goes on, it's like the more you see as you look back the prayers that were answered. Because it is, it is amazing. Like you said, it's when you meet your husband, it's like, yes, you could have chosen anyone if you get down. It's like, yeah, I guess I could have. But at the same time, like, this is so who God had for me. And you can't make it up because of the prayers. I know, I prayed and like, how he answered them on the other side. And I just think you, you said something about like, okay, move back to the hometown. Like, how is this going to work? Because. And I think so many people limit God in like, finding their spouse. Because like, I've had so many people move here and we live in a small town, Louisiana, and people are like, I'm never gonna find my husband. And I'm like, well, how did everybody else here find their husband? You know? And also, you only are looking for one person. Like, you don't need a big city. Like, you need the one person. It needs to be the right person. And for me, like, I'm from here, Christian's from Florida, he was living in Auburn, I was living in Nashville. And somehow we met somehow, obviously God had that planned. And like, we were prayerful. About it. And it was similar for me in 2017 in January, Christ DM me, but I never saw it. And then in 2017 and my notes app on my phone, I started praying for my future husband. And it's so crazy because I like wrote out this list of like, like it sounds bad to say a list and doesn't sound bad, but you know, some girls lists are like a little different than what this list was. It wasn't necessarily like what he looked like or anything like that. It was like a non negotiable vision of like, yes, who I'm looking for in a person. And then I wrote a prayer for this person and I started to pray this prayer over this person. When I would think of them, it was like so cool. It wasn't until the following summer that we met in 30A actually and started a relationship and then later realized that he had DM me never even put the prayer piece together really until after, like we're married. And like, whoa, that's so crazy. I was praying that at that time. And then when he starts telling me as we're dating, his testimony and when he started overcoming stuff, I'm like, look at this. Like, this is so crazy. Like that's when I started praying. And then I guess it was before we were married because we started talking about that and I was like, I prayed that for you, you know, and it was so crazy because I didn't know it was you, but I knew it was someone to come. And so yes, prayer is so powerful for the girls. Like, what do I do in the waiting? Pray. Like seriously pray. So into prayer. And that's going to be so cool because again, that goes into the why. And then in your yes, because then when things are hard in your marriage, you go back to God. You made it so clear though. I couldn't have missed that. It was so obvious. This is what we prayed for, this is what we're living in. And again, if you're married now and you're like, that's not our story. We've never prayed together, We've never read the Bible together. Start today. Start praying for your husband now. And it's amazing what can change. Christian and I, that was obviously our dating period. But then in marriage we had a couple of hard years and prayer was key. And I look at how we are now in our seventh year, which would be the itch, and I'm like, man, we're stronger now, but we went through some really hard stuff to get here. You know, there is a time that we've alluded to that none of us dated very well. Can we talk about that? Because I love Latoria. You talk about, like, your rebellious years, and it's. It's just good to hear because you both are such stunning women who carry yourself so beautifully, who are, like, married, doing ministry, motherhood. And you look at you two, and you're like, that's goals. That's ideal. That is, like, what I'm striving for. And then you hear y', all, like, tell your testimony. It's like, oh, wow. Okay, they've been here. So I think it's really powerful to share a little bit of the mess. Yeah. If you'll go to your rebellious years.
- [34:31]
B
Yeah. Okay, so there's a lot, a lot here. Just buckle up. Now that we've been polished, it's not polished at all. I met the Lord when I was really little. I mean, I literally remember I used to have stomach issues when I was a kid. I remember, like, sitting on the toilet just, like, praying to the Holy Spirit to help me when I was little. And then, unfortunately, we had a huge fallout with my pastor in the church. And it was just right in that season of, like, eighth grade, going into ninth grade, I went from a private school to a public school. I went from. From, like, holding my 8th grade boyfriend's hand and, like, being grounded for a week for that to the next year in public school, losing all of it. Like, I mean, just went from one extreme to the next so quickly. Wasn't in church. The spirit of rebellion was on me, like, heavily. What was crazy was I still had the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but through fought it, like, I mean, and I would, like, cry and pray and know that I was going to do it again. Like, I mean, it was like this crazy tension wrestling in me. Like, God, why do I keep doing what I don't want to do? But the hardest heart issue of it was I loved. I loved the sin, and I loved the sin more than God in that season. And it makes me want to cry because I was just telling Christian this this morning. If you look at pictures of. Of me from when I was a kid, I look so similar to how I did as a kid. Now. If you look at pictures of me from high school and early college before the Lord, like, recaptured my heart, I don't look like the same person. Like, the. The light wasn't in my eyes, and it was because I was fully in the world. I was doing all the things right. And it got. I. I can't remember, actually, I think I've blocked it out as a little bit of trauma. I can't tell you the dates. I can't tell you the. The timeline per. Um, but I unfortunately, like, the guy had cheated on me multiple times. And it finally got to that breaking point of, like, I can't keep doing this. Um, and I got really, like, sick, like, and I thought I was just heartbroken over all of it. Um, and my mom. Cause she knows me well, she was like, this feels like more than just, like, sick over heartbreak. So she took me to the doctor. And I can't remember. I mean, I remember my mom and I having, like, a conversation about me, like, slipping up. And she was so gracious in that moment, gave me so much grace. But I think in her heart, she was like, okay, that was the conversation. Now she's not going to do it anymore. But like I said, that was not the case. And so they took my blood work to see, like, what was going on. And I was very, very early pregnant. And then. Then the next day, drove somewhere, and it was, quote, unquote, taken care of because I had a future. And I didn't talk about it for almost a decade. And I was so gripped with shame. And just like, it. It's so crazy because it's so counter everything the world says where it's like, oh, your life just. Just goes on. Like, that's how you get your life back. And it's like, no, you never move on from that. There's never a day that. That isn't a thought in. In your. In your head. And I think the reason I am so passionate about the grace of God is because I know, like, how his grace has covered me and it's taken me, oh, my goodness, so many years of fighting through, trying to cover up. I mean, even like, when I was Miss Florida of these things, it was like I was trying to cover up the shame with banners of achievement. And I'm like, okay, if I can just wear this banner of achievement. And this is what people will see when they see me. And I was so terrified. I mean, I remember standing top five Miss America, and I'm like, well, this was the goal, right? This was the dream. This was what all this was for, right? Like, this was what my whole life was like leading up to. And. And I was terrified to win because I was like, if I win and someone digs, you know, and they find it, then I'm exposed and this deep, dark secret is going to come out and everyone's going to Know, and the enemy just played with my. I mean, anything you keep in the dark is the enemy's territory, right? And so the Lord can't do anything until you bring it to light. And this is actually the first time I've shared this publicly.
- [39:21]
A
Really?
- [39:21]
B
Um, yeah, so I've shared. I have a mentorship program online called Unveiled, and girls walk through it in their own timing. It used to be, like, a year long, but it kind of felt like a safe place because people kind of had to, like, you know, you're buying in, right? Like, there's. There's some skin on the. The table. But the Lord has really, I mean, even in the last year, deeper levels of, like, healing, deeper levels of forgiveness to the old version of who I was, who wasn't walking with the Lord. Like, empathy I have for young Tori has grown so much. I almost feel like she's like a separate, like, person. Because I was born again, re baptized. I am not who I. I was. It feels like assault Paul. Like, I'm Like, I am not. I'm not that person anymore. And I have so much empathy for her. And so. And what's so crazy is we were at a live action event this past summer, and right before we went, I actually had, like, this crazy demonic dre. Like, it was intense. Intense. Woke me up, of course, at 3am because that's how it always happens. And it was that I was gonna walk through doors that I wasn't opening, and I was terrified, but God was like, run through it with me. And it was like, specifically about this story. And so I was like, okay, God, I'm gonna do it.
- [40:51]
A
Scared.
- [40:51]
B
I'm gonna just keep doing it. Scared. And I was staying at a friend's house, and. And amazing, amazing people, if you don't know. Melana and Jordan Ciudi, they're incredible. They have a podcast as well. But Jordan, I texted in the group, and I was like, can y' all pray for me? Like, I'm scared to go back to sleep because it was honestly so demonic. I was nervous if I went back to sleep, I'd, like, fall back into the dream, and I didn't want to. And he was like, I'm going to call the elders of my church over to pray for you. And so that next morning, I mean, this is literally just a couple months ago. Keep in mind, this story happened down decade, over a decade ago. And the elders of the church came over, they anointed Chad, and I. I shared my story, and I look over, and one of the elders was A woman. And she looked at me and she was like, I've never shared before. And she was in her 60s and she was like, I had one too. And what's so crazy is it's actually like one in four women now have had them and 70% of them are women in the church. And what is so crazy is, is it's the shame. And I think it's so hard in the Christian sphere because the minority is so loud, right? And but it's not Christian women who are like, hey, this is part of my story. I know that cuz that was me. Like I, I hid it for so long because I was like, I don't want that to be the thing that you use, God. And when I first moved to la, I was part of a Bible study. Praise the Lord for Bible studies. And it's a hard question to ask, but someone asked me, what are you scared to ask God? And at first I gave like the surface answer, you know, I'm like, oh, you know, I'm not really scared to ask God anything. We're close, you know, and, but I felt that like gut heart pull and I was like, we're not going there. But that one's staying down here. We're not pulling that up right now. That's staying in the dark. And my good friend Kristin, she looked at me and she was like, what are you like, what's your real answer, Tori? And I was terrified to ask God if he wanted to use my story because I did not want the answer to be yes. And I knew that if I asked and he said yes then I would have to be obedient. But if I didn't ask then I could just like have this thing where I'm like, oh, okay, well he never said yes, so I'm not acting in disobedience, right? But I asked and I, and then I went to my husband and I was telling him and the reason I'm just now like really sharing was because after that I was like, okay, well if I share and one person decides not to, then it's like redeemed, right? And my sweet, loving, amazing, God filled husband looked at me so kindly and he was like, you're not ready to share. And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, because you're sharing from a place of trying to redeem. Nothing you do, nothing you ever do will redeem that. What Jesus Christ did on the cross redeemed you. And until you can walk in that freedom from knowing, sorry, from just knowing that whatever You've done whatever you've walked through. Jesus Christ died like he bore it on the cross for you so that you could live a life free from it. And that's the whole point of that verse in Revelation. Like, we overcome him by the word of our testimony, by the blood of the Lamb. And I know I have blood on my hands, but when God looks at me, he sees me as pure. And I just want the listener to know that he sees you as pure here. It doesn't matter if you've lost your purity. It doesn't matter what's happened in your life. What Jesus did on the cross covers you. Like, that's the lens that God sees you through, not through your sin. He sees you through the filter of his son on the cross. And that is what matters, right? Like, that's why we. That's why we share. That's why, oh, God, he's just so good. I'm just so passionate about grace because I think we live in a culture that abuses it, where it's like, oh, I can just do whatever I want to do. Because his grace covers. And I'm like, oh, what an abuse of that grace, that beautiful grace of God that we don't deserve. Like, I'm so just aware of how much I don't deserve it and left up to my own devices, how sinful I can be. And so it's just been a beautiful journey with God. Thanks, Liv. To see that. And even in back, kind of going back to just relationships in general. Thank you. There was a long time where the enemy told me lies, where I was like. The enemy was like, when you walk. I would have visions of walking down the aisle on my wedding day and feeling like a fraud because I thought I would take it to my car grave. And. And so two months into Chad and I dating, I, like, broke down and shared it with him, and he met me with so much grace. And. And again, just like it says in scripture, like, God forgives you, but when you confess your sins to others, you are healed. And so I've experienced that so much because it took me so long to actually, like, go from head knowledge of being like, I know you, for I know you forgive me, but I'm so not healed of this. And so it's been like layer after layer of, like, sharing and more healing, sharing, and more healing, sharing, and more. And I think that'll be the rest of my life. To be honest. I do feel free from the shame, but I still feel like there's just, like, layers upon layers of healing that occur. And then it. I thought I was good. And then we started trying to have a baby and it kept taking a long time. And we are about a year into to, you know, trying and it not happening. And then another lie came up of like, well, this is because I told you you weren't gonna be able to have children. I told you you weren't gonna be able to have children. And I would go to the throne room. I'm like, God, I thought that you were just gonna demolish that lie from the enemy right away and like, be like enemy. Take that right? But there were things he was teaching me in that season and it's really crazy. I'm gonna stop talking here in a minute cause I know I'm taking up so much time apologize. But last night when you were shar and hearing them, I was literally telling Christian that last night, like last night I had the same vision a couple weeks ago when Ezzy just needed to cry. I had done all the things. And I hate you hate it as a mom. Like, you're like, this hurts my heart. Like this grieves my heart. But I know it's for his benefit because he needs restorative rest and right now he's not getting it. And I was like looking at the monitor, I'm like, lord, I feel like, like this is me with you that I just keep crying out. And you could just pick me up and comfort me. Like I know that I could just pick him up and give him my boob and he'd be great.
- [48:09]
A
And.
- [48:10]
B
And. And you're not doing it, God, why? And he's like, cuz I'm a good dad. Y. Y. I'm a good dad. And I know that this lesson you're learning is for the benefit of you and the benefit of your family and the benefit of generations to come. And. And now we sit here with three kids, three little boys. And now I'm like, take that enemy three under three with all its beautiful, you know, chaos and gosh, it's. It's incredible. What a joy and privilege. But yeah.
- [48:43]
A
Wow. Well, first off, thank you so much for sharing. I know that is like no easy thing. And even you kind of spoke to like the warfare that comes before you decide to share something like that. But like giving God your yes does come with, you know, a lot of things on the shed. Like Jesus says, like, if you're going to follow me, you pick up your cross and like it's. It's hard for us to know what that means. But the disciples knew what that meant. It was like picking up a cross means picking up a hard road to walk. Sometimes, like, you have to die to yourself. We joked about dying to yourself earlier about our bad side. But, like, dying to yourself actually is really, really hard to say. Like, I'm going to, you know, lay aside the, you know, whatever people think of me in this moment, whatever judgments are going to come with this, because I really do believe that there's life on the other side of death, that there's hope, there's resurrection life, and that you really did make me a new creation and that you can make others a new creation, and that your grace is not something that's just, you know, something to say, oh, I'm just going to have the grace of God and carry on and wash it. No, like, I'm receiving the grace of God. The grace is sufficient for me in my weakness. Like, just what you're preaching is so powerful. Your testimony is so powerful, it's going to help so many people. I just want to pause here and say that today's conversation with Tori has been overwhelmingly powerful just for her to be so vulnerable. She opened up in a really real, honest way about how abortion happened quickly for her, and it wasn't just something she could just move on from, but it impacted her for years before she truly realized and understood the depth of God's grace. I'm so thankful she shared that story. Sharing true truth and life are things that I care so deeply about, which is why I'm so proud to be partnered with Preborn. I want to stop right here and tell you about it. Preborn is an organization that supports women facing unplanned pregnancies by meeting them with compassion and giving them space to slow down and really understand their options. Hearing Tori's story, one, it takes so much courage for her to share and just to be so honest. But it also made me realize that there are millions of women who carry very similar experiences quietly. And conversations like this remind us how important it is to show up with truth and with grace. At Preborn Network clinics, women receive a free ultrasound where they can see their baby for the first time. And in that moment, fear can really turn into clarity. Just $28 provides one ultrasound, 140 provides five. Giving moms in crisis that moment to see, to pause, and to truly consider life. But more than just an ultrasound, women are being introduced to the hope of Jesus, which is something that truly can change everything. This April, Preborn's goal is to have 11,000 gospel conversations through Preborn clinics, and you can be a part of that. Every dollar helps Save Bab shares the hope of the gospel with someone, and I would love for you to help out. You can help by dialing £250 and saying the keyword baby. That's baby, £250. Or visit preborn.comSadie that's preborn.comSadie. thank you so much for considering helping women all around the world. Different story, different scenario, but. But so similar in the way that as teenagers, I think that in Enemy, it's such a playground for the enemy, because you're so young, but you make these big decisions.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah.
- [52:00]
A
And there were so many big decisions I made at such a young age that the enemy just was like, boom, like, got you. Now you're gonna. You know, I had so much shame from that. I felt. Same word. I felt like a hypocrite. I felt like I could not live the life God called me to because it was contradicting the things I had done. And what if someone found out? And then. What if that person said something and then everyone knew? And then they'd be like, you're a fake. And. And then that's when you say, no, I'm not a fake. I'm. I was crucified with Christ. I'm alive in him. Like, but the enemy's gonna get you feeling like, well, you are. But that's when you have to cling to scripture. But I can just relate to all of that wrestle and just the fear of it and even down to the. The purity aspect, because I remember one time I was sitting and we were actually on a ski trip, and it was after I had come out of, like, the bad stage of my life, but still wasn't, like, fully living out what God had called me to do, because I did live in so much shame from my past and things that I was, like, scared would come out. And so I was on a ski trip, and I remember, like, looking at the snow, and I remember hearing the Lord say, you are as white as snow. You are pure. And I remember being like, no, I'm not. Like, no, I'm actually, like, not. I'm just not. And I remember, like, you know what you see, like, pockets of snow that have been, like, stepped on a lot. And it's, like, muddy and, like, feeling like, that's actually what I feel like. I'm not white as snow. And I kind of, you know, I tried to receive it, like, tried really hard to be like, okay, well, your scripture does say that, you know, that I'm washed white as snow, so I'm going to receive that. But I didn't feel that way. And I remember like when Christian and I started dating, we shared our testimonies with each other other. And it's actually the day after we shared like the hardest parts of our testimonies that we told each other we loved each other. Which is really powerful. Cuz I really felt like we meant it. Cuz it was like we don't just like each other. This is not, this is not likable material. Like you love me if you love me after we shared that. And so I shared that with him. Well then a couple months later we went on a ski trip together and I had told him about that moment with the Lord and how like it didn't really feel that way, but I want to receive it. And we were going up the gondola and the sun was shining on the snow like so beautifully. And it, you know, when sun shines on snow, it looks like crystals. So pretty. And Christian looked at me, he's like, you're white as snow. And I just remember being like, oh, that is so crazy. But it's such a picture of your. The snow is glistening because the sun is on it, you know, and like that's why you're white as snow. Because the sun is on it. Because when he looks at the blood, he sees his son's blood. When he looks at your story, he's looking at the lens of you through his son on your behalf. And like when you get that, and then not only when you get that, but even when someone else sees it for you too. And like you're like, oh, wow, I really can live in freedom. Because Christ really did raise from the dead. And that was for me to receive and to live in. Like it's so life changing and life altering and it's to. It's so crazy to the details of. I had a dream about these. These doors. So weird.
- [55:14]
B
Wow.
- [55:15]
A
Literally. But it, it's so crazy because I saw all these doors of my past that I had so much shame from. And I was walking down the hallway and. And these doors were all open. And as I walked down this hallway I got more and more and more insecure and insecure and insecure and afraid because I felt so much shame. And then I got to the end of the hallway and it was this opportunity that was waiting for me. But instead of doing what I was supposed to do, which was speak, I hid under the table cuz I felt so much shame. And I Talked to a counselor at time I had this dream is a long time ago. It's actually when I lived in Franklin. And she said, you need to go close all those doors. Like, you need to go find redemption on all those doors so that you don't keep feeling shame and you don't, like, get coward down as you go, but, like, you are able to stand tall. So all these years, I've literally spent, like, a lot of work trying to get rid of all that shame. And again, like, Jesus did it. The shame's gone, but you have to still, like, your flesh, your. Your mind, like you said, has to align with what your heart knows to be true and what scripture is. And what's crazy is in the vision, in that dream, the opportunity that I saw, it's so weird. I literally got invited this week to the opportunity I saw in that dream. And that was no joke. Like, I mean, it had to have been eight years ago. And so I say that to say, like, when you were saying that, I was like, this is crazy. Like, just to increase, encourage you and the listener. Like, when God gives you these dreams and these visions, like, they are something to act on. Like when you said, I had the elders come over and anoint my home and, like, pray for me because there is warfare happening. Shame can stop you. Like, you talk about your husband either launching you or capping you. Like, shame will cap you all day long, you know, until you. You go, you know what? I'm going to deal with it. And that looks like a lot of hard work. Counseling, prayers, anointing, all the different things. So that when you get to the end of the room, so that when you get to the opportunity, so that when you get on the podcast, so that when you get in the moment, your mouth, when you open your mouth, he gives you the ros. And you speak and the Holy Spirit works through you, and his grace is sufficient. And when you're weak, he is strong. And it's just like. Then you're like, take that enemy. Like, this is how you walk in the battle. Like, this is how you war, you know? And so it's. It's amazing. Amazing. It's. I. I can't help but share the details of that, because if that's true in our stories, how many people listening to this are going, that's exactly what happened to me. I made this stupid mistake as a teenager, and it was a big one, and it set with me, and I have shame, and I could never do what God calls me to do, and I can never Be honest. I could never. And here we are saying, oh, yes, you can. It's gonna be better, but you better because there is something on the other side, because there's life on the other side, and I just love it. Christian, I know you talk about shame often. Even you saying, I'm a perfectionist, and shame is a part of my story. Just as we begin to round out this podcast, can you just give a last push to the listener who's sitting in that shame and who's like, is it worth it to pick up the cross? Is it worth it to do the hard thing? To. To confess my sin to someone, to break up with the guy? To do the hard thing? I think that's been kind of the theme of the podcast is, is it worth it to do the hard thing? And can I actually overcome my shame? So you want to give minute charge to the listener. I don't know about y', all, but if I can avoid loading up the kids, getting everyone in the car, and going into a store, yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna choose that every single time. If what I need can just come right to my house, that is just such a game changer. And that is why I think three day Blinds is so genius. They literally bring the showroom to you. Just set up an appointment, and a professional design consultant comes to your house, helps you pick everything out, and gives you a free no obligation quot same day. Looking through their designs on Instagram proves just how much of a difference this really can make. Blinds aren't just functional. They can completely pull a room together. Three Day Blinds has thousands of options to choose from. Everything from light filtering to blackout, and even motorized blinds that connect to Alexa. So cool. Being able to open your blinds with a voice command in the morning just sounds like such an upgrade. I mean, that. That. That feels like luxury, y'.
- [59:32]
B
All.
- [59:32]
A
That's pretty cool. And when it comes to installation, three Day Blinds handles everything. So no measuring, stress, no DIY fills, which I know we've. I certainly have. Their team takes care of the design, measuring, and install, which makes the whole process just so easy, y'. All. Right? Now get quality window treatments that fit your budget. With Three Day Blinds, head to Three Day Blinds.com Whoa. For their buy one, get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, shutters, and drapery for a free, no charge, no obligation consultation, just head to three day blinds dot com. Whoa. One last time. That's buy one, get one 50% off when you head over to the number three day D a Y blinds dot com.
- [60:16]
B
Whoa.
- [60:20]
C
Yeah, I feel like you don't need it. Like, what you both shared is just so powerful in and of itself. But it's funny, I feel like the first book I wrote, the title of it encapsulates. All we're talking about is called Breakup with what Broke you. So it's like, if it's the actual breakup, if it's the shame, if it's the dreams, whatever it is. It's just this idea. Like, I wrote in there because this is something I lived out. I feel like when I write, it's not because I know it really everything. It's like my cathartic release I have to journal to get it out of my head. But I wrote shame as an inability to separate what you've done from who you are. And I feel like that's so true for all three of us. And whoever's listening to is like, how do you actually remove that from your mind, from your heart, like, from your conscience? And shame is just the enemy's playground because he really sees an opportunity to say, huh? They know that God is good, Good. But this thing, this hidden thing, is tethered so tightly to how they see themselves, what they believe is possible. And, you know, I just think there's so much power when we say, that was so overwhelming, that was so daunting, but yet you are still bigger than that thing. You know, there is nothing, the Bible says there's nothing that can separate us from that love. And that doesn't mean that we just say, oh, I'm good. God doesn't care about that. It means that, oh, because that is so painful and large, we know even greater than that. His love is tenfold, hundredfold the power that we've experienced. So if you've gone through shame, it took me a while to realize, wow, if I know the weight of that, how much greater can I actually experience the Lord's love? And it is hard to, you know, like, I am sometimes a realist. I'm definitely a firstborn perfectionist at times. And I'm like, lord, how can you redeem that? But we have to see redemption is not perfection. It's restoration. And so it has to be like this spewing out of. I can't do everything perfectly. So I'm going to lean into you to try to even do anything good. Like, I actually need your grace. And I'm just so encouraged by the woman at the well. And her response was, you see me through my filth and similar. Like, and yet you still call me love. You're still speaking to me culturally. This is not even allowed for you to speak to this other race and gender, but yet you take the time to lean down to meet me. I love that you. Every time, almost every time that the Lord heals someone, he. He bends down and he like, offers his hand. He, like, he gets low with us. He gets in the dirt sometimes he uses the dirt, he's gonna spit in the dirt to actually heal you. But her response was not, thank you. Okay, like, can you take away my past? Can you give me like a new story? Can you take me with you to Israel and just like make me this redeemed version? She runs back to the place of heartache and she says, this guy is so good because he told me all of the terrible things I've done and yet he loves me still. And that to me is just like one. I would love her courage to be like, guys, I'm a mess up, and it's amazing. I would not have that courage. I would want to say, there's this really great guy, like, you should go meet him. Don't ask him about me, but his name is Jesus. And she just runs right into it. She runs into the messy. And I think that's because she probably dealt with shame for so long. I mean, I'm sure everyone in that town knew her story. Story, yeah. Knew her past husbands, knew her current situationship. And, you know, we can, we can all find ourselves there. It doesn't matter if, you know, you just looked at a guy and you feel shame from like wanting to kiss him to, you know, whatever you did. It's. We all are short of the grace and power. And you know, I'm not saying go and try the things until you can find God in that realm, but I think there's just power. Like, we talked about vulnerability, we talked about shame, we talked about hoping again, again. And the Bible just says, I have this hope that's an anchor for my soul. And so when we can sit and separate, you know, this is what I've done, this is what I've hoped for. But at the end of the day, I'm going to go back. I'm going to go back and think, well, what is my life really for? What is the legacy I'm creating? What do I believe in? What it, despite my own imperfections am I still striving for? And we see time and time again. I mean, Paul does the same thing and I think the secret sauce, if you will, if I'm trying to Stay relevant, since I'm in my 30s now, is just humility and hope. Yeah, it's great because we see Paul say, you know, I'm striving forward towards a goal. I'm disciplining myself for that. But I'm also the least of these. Like, I know I got some skeletons in my closet, but I'm not going to let that discredit me and make me powerless. But I'm going to strive in this humility. And I found the more I do that and the more I want to try to say, like, am I doing enough? Am I being enough? That never empowers. Empowers me. But when I say, lord, I'm broken, will you help me restore it? Will you keep the vision ahead of me? Will you keep this Habakkuk? Never say that book. Right. But will you keep that vision in front of me so I know where I'm headed?
- [65:07]
A
That's great. I love that. It's so good. I smile because I just turned in my book and it's all about the woman at the well. I was thinking about the whole time. But, you know, when you're in something and it's like, you see it in everything. So when you said it, I was like, yes, because this is the woman at the the will. Because we all are the woman at the well. And I love that she ran back and she's like, come meet a minute. Tell me everything I ever did. Like, it wasn't a man who did some crazy miracle or what. It was like, he told me everything I did. And that just like, that got her. Like, she ran back. She didn't have time to, like, fix herself up. She had time to change her situation. She just, like, went with it. And again, that's that, like, no, I once was dead. Now I'm alive. That's an old person. So I can talk about her, because that's not me, you know, and this is me in Christ. And, yeah, I still have things to overcome. And one of the things that Christian, my husband, I keep doing, that I've been learning lately is we're both like, he's watching the House of David series, and then our kids are watching the little David series, and then I'm reading the Bible recap. And then my daughters, I'm reading with them, like, the storybook Bible every night. And so we're both, like, learning at this adult level and this child, like, level every day. It's been really, really sweet for both of our faith. But one thing that's been cool is like the word grace, the word joy. Those words, like when you are a child, you see them as like these sweet words, like the grace of God, like the joy of the Lord. And then when you're an adult, you realize like, no, that is the secret sauce, like that there is power in grace. And grace isn't a one time thing for that one sin. It's an everyday thing to get you through your days. And joy isn't just like, oh, I'm happy, happy. It is the strength that you have to get through life. And like, humility isn't something you just say and like, hope you, like, you have to become like, these things are, these things are real. And it's so cool because it's the fruit of who God is. So the more you're in Christ, the more these things flow out of you and you realize like the depth of the, the power that the Holy Spirit really does within you as you walk through these everyday, everyday things and you deal with the things that life throws at you. And so I just couldn't thank y' all enough one coming down here. I said that before, but way more than that, being willing to share and be so vulnerable. Like you said, vulnerability breeds vulnerability. And so for the listener, I hope that this isn't just a conversation you listen to and go, that was good. But I hope it's a conversation you listen to you meditate on. Go to the Father first, pray about it. There's something in your life that you're like, okay, I'm scared to ask God this. I'm scared to let God in on this. First of all, he already knows. And he loves you.
- [67:52]
C
And he.
- [67:52]
A
His grace is sufficient for you if you have one friend that you could call. Confession is a powerful thing. It is how you are healed. Also, you need to walk through life with friends, ask for prayer. These two are amazing models of walking through life with friends and praying for one another. Don't do this alone. Don't go through this alone. Plug into a church, plug into your friend groups, open up to your spouse, but most importantly, go to the Father. And I hope that as you navigate what's coming next, that you just have full faith that God really can work all things together for good. And that no matter what you've done in your past, he can use that to bring life to not only you, but to other people. And so thank you all again for coming on. This was amazing, such a blessing.
- [68:38]
B
Thank you,
- [68:44]
A
Sam.