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WHOA That's Good Podcast
Wait for the Man Who Loves & Accepts You Regardless of Your Past | Sadie Robertson Huff | Mack & Meredith Brock
00:59:47
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- [00:00]
Sadie Robertson
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Meredith Brock
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- [02:56]
Mac Brock
It's good to be here, Sadie.
- [02:57]
Sadie Robertson
Hi, Sadie. So good to be here.
- [02:59]
Meredith Brock
I know. Been a long time coming. We've been trying to get you guys on the podcast forever, and it's finally here. And I believe it's God's perfect timing and so can't wait to just dive into your story. But before we do any of that, I have to ask you guys the question that everybody gets asked the first time they're on this podcast. And it's kind of a heavy one. If you're not prepared for it, it will come out of left field. But what is the best piece of advice that the two of you have ever been given?
- [03:26]
Mac Brock
You know what's funny is I don't know if Maya is, like, your producer. She warned us about this question. She's like, hey, just so you know, you're gonna want to come up with something. I'm realizing now, as you're asking me this, that I forgot to come up with something.
- [03:39]
Meredith Brock
Oh, my God.
- [03:39]
Mac Brock
I did not do homework assignment. So I'm going to let my wife answer first while I remember.
- [03:45]
Meredith Brock
Buy you some time. Buy you some time.
- [03:49]
Sadie Robertson
Well, honestly, this is an easy one for me because I use this little bit of advice. It's actually two pieces of advice that I got when I was in my twenties from a gal who was much older than me. She was discipling me at. From. He was. We were going to his. His dad's a pastor, and so we were going to his dad's church and this lady named Cynthia Johnson. I used to meet with her and we would read scripture and she said. There were two things that she said to me that I cannot tell you how many times I have said to young girls since she said it to me. The first one was, if God Ever breaks a promise, he can't be God anymore.
- [04:26]
Meredith Brock
Wow.
- [04:27]
Sadie Robertson
And it just really helped me give me, like, a lot more confidence in, like, holding God to his promises, you know, and saying, like, wow. So, okay, God, if you ever break a promise, you can't be God anymore, so you. You have to keep this one, you know? So that was a really, really good one. I have a tendency to really worry about whether or not I'm walking in God's will for my life. You know, I worry, am I making the right choices? And it was in my, like, mid-20s when I was meeting with her, and she said this to me, and I will never forget it. She said, meredith, don't you realize that God is such a better leader than you are a follower?
- [05:06]
Meredith Brock
Wow.
- [05:07]
Sadie Robertson
And so if you're. The desire of your heart is to follow him and that's what you're chasing after, then don't worry, like, he will lead you where you need to go. So those are the two. I gave two.
- [05:18]
Meredith Brock
I gave a bonus. She's covering for you, Max. She's covering for you.
- [05:22]
Mac Brock
I actually do have one, and it is going to sound hyper basic, but it really, like, changed my life. And I remembered that I did think about this when we talked to Maya. I just came back to me. I met with a worship leader when I was probably 19 or 20, named Lee McDermott from New Spring Church. And I didn't really know what I was doing as a worship leader. I was like a good singer, a good musician, but that was about it. So I was meeting with him saying, hey, what do I need to do to be a better worship leader? And this is such simple advice, but he just said, you need to read the Bible. Like, that is your job. And as a person in the moment, I was like, well, duh. Yeah, like, I know I'm supposed to do that, but, like, musically, what should I do? He's like, no, as a worship leader, your job is to read the Bible, to be close to Jesus in those moments, to know scripture. And so that is something that, you know, 20 years later, I'm still clinging to.
- [06:24]
Meredith Brock
That's so good. And honestly, I always say this on the podcast. I'm like, I wish people had to prepare a sermon to preach because it does keep you in the Word. Like, because it's my job. I'm in the Word because I know I'm going to have a message, I need to preach next month. But if everybody had that mindset that my job is ministry, not just because it's my job title. Or because I have a message I'm gonna preach, but because I'm supposed to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, everywhere I go is a place that my words could hold power in someone else's life because I could tell them words that could change their life. The hope of Jesus. And so my dad says that a lot, too, because he speaks a lot, and he's. Man, it keeps me accountable, you know? And so, yeah, you don't. You don't. It's not, like, a bad thing to look at it like a job. It's actually a good thing. Like, it's what we're all called to do. It's what Jesus called us to.
- [07:16]
Mac Brock
So that's so true. I. I had to do a devotion yesterday for a different podcast, and it's been a long time since I've had to teach, like, in that type of setting. And so just even going to scripture that I hadn't visited in a while or studying a book of the Bible that I hadn't lived in in a long time was so challenging to me in that moment. Like, okay, pressure's on a little bit, but it's forcing. It's forcing me in a positive way to look at scripture in a different context. So good.
- [07:45]
Meredith Brock
It's so good. It's actually funny because. Did y'all just get your Spotify rap? You know, if y'all are. Spotlighter. Okay, that was, like. That was convicting. I looked at it, and I was like, this is hilarious. Because June, it was, like, going through the month, like, what you listen to this month? And then it was like, June, and it was all Disney theme songs because my kids. So it was like Moana and Ariel, and then it says. And then in July, you took a sharp pivot towards the more spiritual things, and I started, like, getting very worshipful. And in August, it was worshipful because my conference is September, like, the first weekend of September. So I'm like, all right, kids, it's time to get serious. Like, no more shiny. Yeah. No more part of your world. We need Jesus. But it's just. That's kind of funny, but it's really true. When you have something that you're like, I got to be in this. Like, you. You are listening to those type that. That stuff, you are reading more, which is a beautiful thing, and I love that.
- [08:42]
Mac Brock
And even. Even to piggyback off of that, I'm just. I know this isn't where you were going, but just as for believers out there in general, like, that's one of the good reasons to have other people that you're pouring into as, like, a discipleship or, you know, just mentorship, anything like that. Just, like having people that you're pouring into from a leadership level automatically, like, challenges you in a different way in your own relationship with Christ.
- [09:09]
Meredith Brock
It's so true. I always think about that verse from the heart, so the mouth shall speak. So it's like, on a daily basis, what are you putting in your heart that is gonna come out in the conversations? Because they have the power to really be really meaningful and impactful conversations, or they have the power to just be, like, blah. You know, you just go about life and talk about things, whatever, but putting intentional things in. Which is why I love podcasting and hearing stories. And, Meredith, love your advice that the second piece of advice you talked about is something that a lot of our listeners have talked about struggling with. So we've talked about that a lot about just that crippling. It really is a crippling anxiety that, like, I'm doing the wrong thing. Like, what if God doesn't want me to do this and I do it, and what if I mess it up? And I know we're going to get to that later, but before we even get too much into the weeds, we love a good how you met relationship story on the well, that's good podcast. So how did the two of you guys meet, and how long have y'all been married?
- [10:04]
Mac Brock
I'll tell the quick version. So Meredith grew up west coast in Idaho. Then she moved to Alaska. Then she came to school in South Carolina. I just grew up in South Carolina. I never left. So she was in South Carolina, I was in South Carolina. And I was a musician, and I was playing an event at a church. She was volunteering with a friend, serving us dinner and stuff. And when I saw her, I was just like, oh, my God. You know, like, just smiling ear to ear because I was just, like, enamored. And, yeah, we kind of connected that night. And she graduated shortly after that and moved back to Alaska. I had to convince her to come back to the south because as a Southern boy, I could not deal with any sort of coldness. And so she came back to South Carolina. We got married shortly after that.
- [10:58]
Sadie Robertson
I married for 18 years.
- [11:00]
Meredith Brock
18 years. And you guys have three kids?
- [11:03]
Mac Brock
We have three kids.
- [11:04]
Meredith Brock
It's incredible. I can't. Y'all story's so incredible. I can't wait to dive in. And I totally respect that. You can't be cold because it's, like, maybe 40 degrees outside right now. Maybe 50. I'm 40 is probably dramatic. And I have a heater behind me right now because I'm so cold.
- [11:18]
Mac Brock
If it's like below 50, I am turning my car on 15 minutes before I get in it. So it's just like a sauna in the car as soon as I get in.
- [11:26]
Meredith Brock
That's currently me. Okay, so you moved. Moved to Alaska. And this story is pretty wild. Do you mind sharing, Meredith, a little bit about your backstory? Because you guys grew up really differently.
- [11:37]
Sadie Robertson
Yes, very dramatically differently. Like I said, Mac is a pastor's kid, you know, so he grew up. If there ever was like a super healthy, like, picture perfect family, it might be his. My family is on the opposite extreme of that. So I did grow up in Idaho. Very dysfunctional situation. Lots of addiction to both drugs and alcohol, very abusive setting, and lots of just poverty. I, I, from the time I was really little, I moved from home to home because I got evicted like every few months from our house. And so by the time I got to be about 17 years old, I was pretty, like in a pretty bad spot, you know, and my, my parents had brought us to church a little bit here and there. And so I had heard the gospel, but I didn't believe it because I saw what it did in their lives and I was like, no, thank you. I am like, not interested. If that's your solution, I see how it's working for you and I am not interested. Wow.
- [12:54]
Meredith Brock
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- [14:45]
Sadie Robertson
But by the time I got to my senior year in high school, I had gotten myself into a little bit of trouble. I'd worked really hard all throughout my schooling. I had decided, like, made up in my mind that I was going to be different than the rest of my family, you know, and so I, with zero accountability, like, just worked my tail off. I think maybe I watched too much PBS Kids because I was.
- [15:07]
Mac Brock
Sesame street was like a life changing, influencing your life.
- [15:11]
Sadie Robertson
The Reading Rainbow Sadie, you're probably too young to know what that is, but there was this show on PBS Kids that it talked about readers are leaders and education is what you need. And it stuck, man. So when I was really little, I clung onto, like, I have got to get an education because that's my only way out of this craziness. My mom only had an 8th grade education, never graduated from high school. My dad barely graduated from high school. So everything was just really, really hard in our life. And then you layer on addiction and drugs and alcohol and abuse and all that kind of stuff. So by the time I got to be 17 years old, I had worked my tail off to try to do really great in school. And I had, I was really grateful that I had done really well and gotten scholarships and all kinds of stuff, but I still had this, like, aching hole in my heart very much that was like, man, does anybody even care that one, all of these terrible things have happened to me and two, like, I've worked my Butt off to try to get out of this. And this doesn't matter, you know, like, it doesn't matter. And so it was like January of my senior year. This gal named Emily Bankhead came up to me and asked me to go to Young Life with her. And I. I was like, sure, whatever, you know? And so I went to Young Life with her. And I had heard all the messages before, but I think I was in such a desperate spot. And so my heart was aching so much that I went home from Young Life and sat in my room and I said, okay, God, if you're real, I'll do what you tell me to do. I'll read my Bible. I'll journal like these people tell me I'm supposed to journal, which I didn't even know what that meant. And if you're real, I want you to show me, because I'm not going to tell anybody else. This is going to be between me and you. And so I. The young. My young life leaders had said, if you haven't read the Bible before, start in the Book of John. And so I read. I started at the beginning of the Book of John and just started reading through that gospel. And over time, it was like. It's like. I mean, I had read bits and pieces of it. I'd heard bits and pieces of it growing up, but I just saw Jesus in this new light of like, man, this is a man who loves the broken, who loves the hurting, who goes out of his way for the people who have been disenfranchised and uninvited and cast out, you know? And I identified with that and felt like, man, he loves me. And so I. In the quiet of my room, there was never a moment where I was like, okay, God, I'm. You know, it was more of like, show me. Prove it to me. And so over a period of time, I mean, he did become the Lord of my life. My young life leaders knew the kind of trouble that I was in, and so they somehow convinced me and got me in to go work at a Young Life camp right after I graduated from high school. Called Malibu. It's up in Canada.
- [18:16]
Meredith Brock
Oh, I've been there.
- [18:17]
Sadie Robertson
Have you been there? Yeah, it's awesome. It's amazing. It's beautiful. So I went up there thinking I was going to be there for a month, and I ended up meeting this couple named Caleb and Tracy Richardson, and they were from Alaska. And by the end of that month, they said, hey, I know this sounds crazy, but we think that the Lord is telling us that you should come spend the rest of your summer with us. And I was like, really? And I've always been a sucker for adventure, So I was like, alaska, what are we going to do? And they were like, well, we're just going to go hiking and backpacking. And I was like, sold. I'll go. And that little summer turned into six years.
- [18:56]
Meredith Brock
Wow.
- [18:58]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah. They became like parents to me. You know, I had. Because of the very dysfunctional home that I had grown up in, I didn't know how to do very basic things. I had never seen a marriage or a relationship that was healthy. And so they really took me in as my. As parents would and taught me even the simplest thing, like how to open a bank account and how to write a check and how to, you know, budget your money. And they let me sit and watch them when they were arguing. They didn't run away and hide. They let me see what it looked like to have a healthy disagreement. And so for six years, I lived with them, and it really completely transformed my life. And so it was during that season when I met Mac, and I went back to Alaska, Thinking I would never come back to the south again. Because, to be honest, Sadie, an Alaskan, a girl who grew up in Idaho, from the conditions that I grew up in, that loved Alaska, was very insulting to most southern men and women. I was just too strong. Nobody could handle it.
- [20:05]
Meredith Brock
Oh, my gosh.
- [20:07]
Sadie Robertson
I've learned to adapt. I'm not quite as insulting anymore, so. Well, yeah.
- [20:12]
Meredith Brock
What an amazing, wild story. And just, like, so inspiring, too. I want to hear a little bit about yalls early years of marriage and stuff, Because I feel like a lot of people listening. You know, you. You have one or the other story. And so it's so beautiful to hear that. That you both have such different backgrounds but have been married for 18 years with three kids. Like, this is so inspiring. What was it like at the beginning of yalls relationship?
- [20:38]
Mac Brock
I think there was a lot of hesitancy. I think Meredith carried a lot of, like, this is not gonna work. We're too different. We're too, like, our pasts are too different. We're very. I mean, we're very different. People in general tried to break up with me, me multiple times. I just would not receive it. Almost like someone trying to, you know, give you a prophecy that you don't want to receive. You rebuke it in the name of Jesus. I just would not let her in the relationship.
- [21:07]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah.
- [21:08]
Mac Brock
And I think we have learned, you know, we've learned one our Differences, but also learned how to communicate to each other. I've learned, you know, even. I mean, still learning to this day, 18 years later, like, what's the best way to. To serve her? What are her needs? What does that look like for her? She's the same for me. And so I think we've just worked really hard at learning what each other needs, you know, learning how to communicate with each other in the best way that serves that other, you know, each other, and it's an ever growing process for us.
- [21:48]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah. Sadie. I would say, like Max said, I was very hesitant at first in our relationship because. And I can imagine some of your listeners have felt this way before, and that is, like, I knew I was probably overly aware of the amount of baggage I brought into a relationship. You know, I knew all my issues are right at the surface.
- [22:13]
Mac Brock
And I was blissfully naive.
- [22:15]
Sadie Robertson
He was blissfully naive.
- [22:16]
Mac Brock
I was just like, it'll be good. It's fine. Whatever, truly.
- [22:21]
Sadie Robertson
But, like, Namah and I have it. Like, obviously, I have daddy issues. My dad left when I was little. You know, there's drugs and addiction and all kinds of stuff in my background. You know, who wants to marry a girl whose family's fractured? And I have, to this day, I have family members in jail. Like, I just knew. And I. And when he says, she tried to break up with me, I really did, because I said to him, I know that this sounds like, like, really romantic, but I promise, you do not want to deal with the baggage that I have, you know, like this. You don't want to sign up for this. And somehow, by the grace of God, he was like, no, it's fine. We'll work through it, you know, and really stayed consistent. I don't know why that is, but I'm grateful. What I would say, though, is that one of the greatest gifts that I think both of us brought into our marriage, and it was. We were unaware of, we were bringing this into our marriage, is that Mac and I are both very secure individuals apart from one another. I didn't need Mac to make me feel good about myself. I didn't. Because I had become so secure in my relationship with the Lord, I was able to, like, genuinely try to walk away from the relationship because I was like, I don't need you to make me feel good, and I don't know that you are ready to deal with this. And he was saying, no, I am willing to deal with this. I'm secure enough in my relationship with the Lord that I am willing. And so in Our marriage, it has allowed for us to see the other person as a gift rather than something that meets a desperate need inside of ourselves, you know, and it has allowed us, I think, to both also run really hard into what we believe God has called us to do. You know, I run a ministry. He runs his own ministry. And I don't know that we would have been able to do that confidently and without breaking down our marriage if we weren't both very secure independently in our relationship with the Lord so that we can come together whole.
- [24:36]
Meredith Brock
Yes, that's so good. That's so important for every single relationship, I think. And that's what's so beautiful about your story is like, you'll have two different bats backgrounds, but you have the most important thing in common, that you both had a secure relationship with the Lord before coming in relationship with each other. And how cool that you had six years, you know, not just with this family, but like, diving into what your relationship with the. With the Lord was before y'all met. Like, that is so beautiful. And it's so cool because at first, at like, first glance, you hear the stories, you're like, how did it work? How do you have 18 years of marriage after, like, so many differences in different states and all the different things? And then you hear about your relationship with the Lord, and it's like, that's how it worked, you know, because the gospel changes everything. And you, you mentioned you guys lead huge ministries. I mean, Mac, with all of your music and all of the different things that you've done. And then, Meredith, we're going to get into what you lead because I don't know that all of our listeners know that. Can y'all talk a little bit about the individual ministries that you guys are leading currently right now? I know I am not the only mama out there struggling with a picky eater. Y'all moms always want what's best for their kids. It can be really hard when it feels like our kids aren't getting everything that they need from the food that they eat. Kids vitamins are usually full of chemicals, sugar, and additives, so Haya graded a super powered chewable vitamin. Haya is a pressed blend of 12 organic fruits and veggies with 15 essential vitamins and minerals, including vitamin D, zinc, and folate to support your child's immune system, brain energy, bones, and more. It' formulated for kids ages 2 and up by pediatricians and nutritional experts, too. Other brands might have up to 5 grams of sugar, but Haya is made with zero sugar and no gummy additives and it still tastes great to even the pickiest eater. Let me just tell you, Honey James is a picky eater and she loves her high vitamins. And each batch is tested for heavy metals and microbes so that you can rest assured that high vitamins are safe. One less thing to worry about for us moms. Plus, if getting your kid to eat green vegetables is a battle, you are not alone. Haya now offers kids daily green greens plus Superfoods is a chocolate flavor, actually green powder designed to give kids More than 55 whole food ingredients that support their brain development and digestion. Just drop a scoop into some milk or non dairy options as well for a nutritious boost for your kids that they'll actually like being chocolate flavored. My sister Rebecca actually told me about this because both of our kids love chocolate milk, but we need them to eat more healthier things. And so we both ordered it and love it. So thankful for just all the nutrients they're getting. And like I said, the vitamins are a part of of Honey's daily routine that she really does miss. If I did not give it to her, she's like, mom, my vitamins. So we worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. You can receive 50 off your first order. To claim this deal, you got to go to hayahealth.com Whoa. This deal is not available on their regular website, so you have to go to hyahealth.com whoa h I y a h e a l t h dot com whoa w dash h o a and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.
- [27:52]
Mac Brock
Yeah. And I think just even to piggyback off of what Meredith is saying is just even in that aspect, we both have been supportive of each other's callings and they don't. They're not always like together in the sense of like we do very different things.
- [28:07]
Meredith Brock
Yeah.
- [28:08]
Mac Brock
And there's so much of our life that is doing ministry separately, but we're both hyper supportive and figure out ways to make it work. And so for me it's been, you know, worship ministry and music and writing songs and was on staff at Elevation Church for a long time and a part of that ministry for a long time. And then since then it's just been continuing to write, release music, go out, travel a lot and lead worship a lot. And so my schedule is very chaotic and crazy and it's taken a lot to like navigate even as our family is Growing and just the different seasons of our family, what that looks like. And Meredith has a whole different ministry. I don't know if you want to speak to that.
- [28:58]
Meredith Brock
I want to. Y'all can share what y'all do, but then we have to backtrack and how y'all even got started doing it, because that story is crazy. But before we even get to the backtrack, I do want people to know because again, y'all story is so intriguing and so interesting. And you mentioned Maya interviewing you. And I just have to say this for the listeners. So we've actually never done a pre interview with anyone coming on the show. That was something that we just wanted to get started. And Maya, who is on staff at Ello, got to interview them and she told me their story. And it's just so beautiful how many lessons you can pull out in the tube of your story that I'm like, gosh, in our conversation, in our time together, for our listeners, it's like, how do you get out the most of it? So I know you're like, you can share if you want. So I'm like not to put you on the spot and tell everything that you do, because I know that can feel awkward, but people to know just the gravity of what y'all do, because it didn't start there, you know, and we'll get to that and the story behind it. But it is really impressive actually what y'all are currently doing.
- [30:01]
Sadie Robertson
Well, thanks, Sadie. Yeah, my role right now, but it. I've only been the current role that I'm in is CEO of Proverbs 31 Ministries. It's an online. Primarily online. We do have a conference that we host every year. But online ministry that really is there to help people know and understand the more deeply you know. And so we reach about 6 million people a day. On our. Between all of our different channels, we. We have a couple podcasts. Most people will know that Lisa Terker is the president and chief visionary officer with me. So we kind of run alongside each other and she's the face and communicator of the ministry. And I'm kind of the backbone infrastructure of the ministry. And so we've been doing ministry together for 13 years now, going on 14, which is pretty amazing. And I love.
- [30:51]
Meredith Brock
It's incredible. It's so cool. I'm like, that's what we have to say it because so many people who are listening to this probably listen to Proverbs 31, probably read y'all stuff, are like, what the heck? That's so cool. And so we couldn't wait till the very end to say that. That's amazing. That's amazing. Okay, so we're going to get into this. Mac, whenever you. You mentioned that you worked at Elevation, which obviously, like, a lot of people know Elevation. People probably know you from Elevation. You had a very, like, secure role as a worship leader at Elevation and then decide to make a move that is scary. Like, that. That's scary for anyone to do is to make a move, even if you feel God calling you to it when you have something so secure and so stable. So take us back to that and how you were able to step out of something that felt so sure and do what you're doing now.
- [31:40]
Mac Brock
Yeah. So I was on staff with Elevation Church and Elevation Worship for a decade, and we really liked our life. We really liked what we were doing. And. And I think that whatever it is that me and Meredith are doing, I'll just say this as, like, a blanket statement. I feel like whatever season we're in, we're constantly, like, I could do this for the rest of my life, or if the Lord needed me to just stop today, I would be okay with that. And that's not like, I don't know. That's just a little bit of the way that we've always been. We are fully rooted. We like being rooted and planted in places and. And, like, dig deep our roots. But we always want to have a spirit of. But whatever's next or whatever the Lord wants, like, we want to be willing to do that. We don't want to hold on so tight. And so for me and for us, when we started feeling like just that, inkling from the Lord, hey, I think your season is at Elevation is done. I think that your assignment there is done. It's time for you to move on. My initial response was, okay, I'm going to hold on even tighter because I like it here and I like doing what I'm doing. And thankfully, the Lord allowed me and Meredith to process in a way to where he didn't have to pry our hands open and take it away from us. But he allowed us to process, to wrestle with him, to walk with him, to talk with him, and then to ultimately say, like, okay, we trust you guys, God. We have peace that this is what you've called us to do. And so we are stepping out and stepping into a new season of life. And we didn't know what that looked like. We didn't know, are we staying in Charlotte? Am I going to work at Another church. Am I going to still, you know, write songs or.
- [33:28]
Sadie Robertson
At one point, he. He was like, I think I'm going to go back to school and become a computer programmer.
- [33:34]
Mac Brock
Yeah, do I go back to school?
- [33:35]
Sadie Robertson
Like, And I was, like, really open.
- [33:40]
Meredith Brock
Yeah.
- [33:41]
Mac Brock
My passion of sitting behind a computer all day long. And, yeah, we really didn't know, but the Lord has been kind and gracious to us throughout. You know, I mean, it's been several years since I stepped away from elevation, and I'm still able to lead worship, and I'm still able to write songs and release music and do what I think the Lord has called me to do and what I'm, like, assigned to do in a. In a way that is still exciting and fresh to us. Yeah. And so it's been awesome.
- [34:13]
Meredith Brock
That's so. That's so good. That piece of advice you gave. Just throw it in there so casually and, like, wait. That's really good. Everyone needs to, like, focus on that. When you said, we, you know, whatever we're in and doing right now, we look at as if we could do it forever, but also, like, if the Lord called us to step away now, we would. I think that's huge. We were actually just having a conversation the other day about identity, and we were talking about how so often, you know, your identity can get wrapped up in the things that you do. And it led us to, like, so many other conversations, because it got started on a podcast. Then later me and my husband started talking about it, and then we did another podcast talking about it, because it's like, now we're like, okay, how much has, like, what we've done shape our identity and, like, the good ways and then sometimes the bad ways and whatnot. And he was, like, really secure in his identity without, like, the things that he did. Like, he doesn't struggle with that as much. And I'm like, it's so funny because I talk about identity all the time. I preach about identity all the time. And probably every message that I share, somewhere in it, identity comes up. And I started thinking how I think I talk about so much, preach about so much, because that is something I do tend to wrestle with. Like, and yeah, for sure, when we started talking about it, I was like, okay, if this was taken away, would it shake me? No. If that was. But then I started talking about, like, speaking or, like, podcasting and whatnot, and I was like, like, actually, I think sometimes I do put too much in my identity in that, because if it was taken away, it would be hard for me. But I think the reason I've got to like that is because I'm not holding it loose enough. You know, it's like, I think it's when you don't hold it loose enough, when you put it as like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this forever. And it's like, no, you might not. And that's okay because you are so much more as a person than this one task you've been assigned or you're able to step into. And so it's just so interesting you say that right now because I'm like, that' really good piece of advice for everybody, but particularly me right now because I'm like, we've been talking about this and discussing this and I'm like, how do you shield yourself from getting too far, you know, immersed in something where it's like, well, it's a good thing. It's speaking for Jesus. It's a good thing. It's podcasting conversations for the Lord. But at the end of the day, like, it's not all that I am. And seasons come and seasons go. I mean, Covid taught all of us that anything at any given moment can just be shut down and you're not going to do it anymore. And so I love that. Have you always been like that and that open handed or was there like a switch for y'all?
- [36:45]
Mac Brock
Yeah, as I'm saying that, like, make no mistake, we are not experts at it. Even you talking about identity, like, I am right there with you, you know, and for a long time, even after I left, like, I was like, shoot, you know, I used to be the worship leader at Elevation Worship or associated with a certain song or something like that. Like, if I take that away, who. Who am I? You even now still, like, I will still wrestle with like, well, outside of like, worship leader Mac, who am I? You know, or songwriter Mac, who am I? And it is, it's still like a. A constant, like, wrestling match. And I think part of that is like, it's weird because. And you said this, it's almost makes it even like, weirder when you're doing something that is noble or that is like ministry related and is something like for positive purposes, you know, even like Proverbs 31. But I think Jesus just like constantly wants to remind us, like, that's not why I love you. I am not impressed with the things that you can do for me. I love you because of who you are. I love you because you are my child. And I've had to wrestle with that my entire life. And it's a. I don't know. It's a growing process for me.
- [38:06]
Meredith Brock
Friends, there are people who love and celebrate Jesus all over the world, but there are so many people who don't have access to scripture in their own heart language. And I think that we can do something about that. So I want to invite you to join the scripture translation movement with illuminations 12 verse challenge. There are thousands of people groups adding up to a billion people who don't have access to scripture in their own heart language. And there are more than 1,000 people groups with no scripture at all. So I'm partnering with Illuminations, an alliance of 11 leading Bible translation agencies working together to end Bible poverty within the next 10 years. They used to think that accomplishing this goal would take over 150 years, but now, with our help, it can actually be done in 2033. Y'all. This is so crazy. So here's what we need to do for the 12 verse challenge. For just $35 a month, you can help fund 12 verses of scripture a year for people who need it together. My amazing will. That's good, FAM has already funded the equivalent of the four gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. For one group, y'all. That's so amaz. Now let's pass that blessing on to another group, too. I'm so proud of this that we are getting to do this together. Y'all have personally seen this work on the ground. I went to a very remote place in Guatemala to see this unreached people group get to have scripture. It was one of the most incredible experiences I got to be a part of. So I know this is legit. I've seen it with my own eyes. So we would love to have you a part of this movement as well. How you do that? Well, pull out your phone right now. Click the link in the show notes, or go to 12vc.com sister and commit to the 12 verse challenge. That's the number one, the number two, VC.com sister, y'all. We are all in this until everyone everywhere has access to God's word. Visit the number12vc.com sister to join the movement today.
- [39:58]
Sadie Robertson
I. I feel like if you were to look back at kind of the timeline of our relationship and our marriage. Marriage, I feel like over and over and over again. And I would say, even just personally separate from one another, God consistently brings opportunities for us to surrender ourselves to him.
- [40:24]
Mac Brock
Yeah.
- [40:25]
Sadie Robertson
And with each moment, each time, you've. We've been willing to say, okay, Lord, like, this doesn't really make any sense. Sense, but we'll give it to you, you know, and we'll trust you to follow us through, like, meet us on the other side. It has been such a consistent theme in our individual relationships and in our relationship together. Like, I think about when we. When we first got married, he. We connected with Stephen Furtick and we. He had actually had plans. We had had plans to move to LA because he had gotten an internship with New Line Cinemas. We thought that's the direction our life was going to go. And we got this other opportunity to come and move to Charlotte and be a part of this church. And I think we were like, okay, Lord, like, we'll. We'll give it a try and we'll do it. We'll step out in faith and say yes and let go of this other thing. And when we got here, we realized, holy cow, this was like such a bigger story that God has to write for us that we had no idea. But we were willing to say, okay, let go of our plans to go to la. And when I look back at our story of even how I got connected with Proverbs 31. So I was working at Elevation as well for the first. I think I was on staff for either four or five years, I can't really remember, but it was right from the beginning. And we decided to have. We decided to start our family. And I had not told anybody that I was pregnant. I was just barely pregnant. And this lady named Lisa Terkhurst, at the time, I had no idea who she was. I was working at the church as kind of running production and AVL and kind of the creative department and all that kind of stuff. Had been doing it for quite some time. But part of my job was to oversee this particular facility rentals when people stepped in. So Lisa had decided to rent this facility for six Mondays in a row to do this webcam. And this is like back in 2010, y'all. So this is a long time ago and nobody ever did webcast then. That was like, not a thing. But so she shows up and I sit down with her and I have to go through like all the pre production for everything. And I start asking her, do you have a run, a show? Do you have, you know, are you going to have lower thirds? All that kind of stuff. And she just looked at me like a deer in headlights and was like, I don't know what any of that is. And I was. I literally was like, oh, man, this lady needs help.
- [42:54]
Meredith Brock
Oh my God.
- [42:55]
Sadie Robertson
So I literally was like. Was like, okay, I'm gonna help this lady with no not knowing at all where this would lead. I had no idea who she was, like, literally did not know. So over the six week period of time, I like, watched her in action. I watched her get up there and preach for six Mondays in a row. And I got to know her because. And I learned, oh, my gosh, she has five kids. Kids. And she's like, doing ministry at a really high level in the way that I want to do it. And here I am with my first. I'm pregnant with my first child, and only Mac knows, you know. And so at the end of the six weeks, she was like, hey, thank you for helping me, will you? I'd love to take you to lunch, you know? And so I went to lunch with her and I, in my mind, I was like, I've got. This lady needs to be my friend because she's, like, a little bit ahead of me and I need to learn from her. And so at the end of the lunch, she was. I told her, I said, hey, I haven't really told anybody, but I'm actually pregnant with our first child. And she was like, oh, my gosh, that's so great. And then there was like this long pause and she goes, what are you going to do when you have that baby? And I was like, what do you mean? And she was like, would you ever want to come work for me? And so it was such a wow step of faith for me to leave my position at elevation and go, okay, I'll go work for this lady. And here we, we are almost 14 years later. Not really. I didn't know at all what God had in store for. It was just a little step of obedience and a little step of faith that led to something so beautiful and so fruitful and great.
- [44:31]
Mac Brock
And I just want to make note of one of the things that I love about Meredith's career is. I don't know if you even caught that. She said when she was at the church, she was doing avl. Like, that's crazy. That's crazy. And she has a master's degree in counseling. And then, like, at 30, she decides to totally change the path of her career into a brand new space that she never didn't know anything about, but felt like, okay, this is what I think that we're supposed to be doing. Completely redirect the course of, like, what I'm doing as my job. And I always use that, like, as an encouragement to people that are going through transition. Or stressed about transition is like. It's so fascinating to me that just even, like, at 30, like, that's kind of late in life to make a total career change and just to see what the Lord has done in the last 14 years is incredible.
- [45:30]
Sadie Robertson
I mean, that's truly, like. Just want to encourage the listeners. Like, obedience leads to fruitfulness. Obedience leads to. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, that true satisfaction.
- [45:46]
Meredith Brock
Right? Confidence.
- [45:48]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah. Better than you even know yourself.
- [45:52]
Meredith Brock
Right.
- [45:53]
Sadie Robertson
He knows what you need. Like, y'all, I never would have in a million years, not in a million years would have said, man, I just wish I could be the CEO of women's ministries. That was nowhere on my radar. But the Lord knew that's what he designed me to do, you know, and he designed me for this. And so like I said at the beginning, beginning of this, he is such a better leader than we are followers so good that if we just follow him one day and then the next day and stack those days instead of trying to run so far ahead and determine this is what my life needs to look like. Just be obedient today. Yes, just today. And that's all you need. I love one of my favorite things. There's two, two, Two things that I knew Lisa Terker and I were meant for each other. The first one is I had just had our son, Harvey. He was six weeks old, and she was speaking at, if anybody remembers this, that big conference catalyst down in Atlanta. And you remember Sadie.
- [47:00]
Meredith Brock
Did you ever heard of it?
- [47:01]
Sadie Robertson
Okay, so it was a big. It was a big thing, like back in 2010, 2011, around there. And my son was six weeks, and she was like, will you come with me? And I was like, well, as long as he can come with us on the plane. Like, I'm. I'll just strap him to me. And we're good, right? And so we get on the plane, and of course, like, they're about to take off. He has to stay strapped on. And all of a sudden he starts screaming. And I realize he's had, like, a massive blow up.
- [47:25]
Meredith Brock
Oh, yeah. It always happens on takeoff.
- [47:29]
Sadie Robertson
Yeah. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Stressed out. Here's my new boss sitting next to me because I've been working for her for, like, two seconds at this point. I think this is the first thing I ever did for her, ever.
- [47:39]
Meredith Brock
Oh, my God.
- [47:39]
Sadie Robertson
Like, I had come back from six weeks of maternity le and here I am on an airplane with her. And I was like, oh, Lisa. I think he. I think we have a blowout. And she goes, it's okay, just put him on my lap really quick and you can change it.
- [47:50]
Meredith Brock
Oh my gosh.
- [47:50]
Sadie Robertson
And I was like, this lady, me and her can go anywhere and do anything.
- [47:56]
Meredith Brock
That is so real. That's women's ministry for you too. Because, like, at any given moment, someone on our team's pregnant. Someone just had a baby, there's another baby here, my kids are here. Like, you just have to go with it.
- [48:08]
Sadie Robertson
I love it. I love it. So that was the first time, the second sign that I knew that I would want, I wanted to do ministry with Lisa Turkers. Forever is like probably the second week I worked for her. I'm a very goal driven, like, tell me what, what we need to hit and I'm going to hit it. And I said to her, I was like, okay, so let's set some goals. What do you want to happen? You know, year one, year two, where are we trying to get? And she sat there and she looked at me and she goes, well, I don't really have any goals. The goal is just to do what God tells us to do. And I was like, man, that's so refreshing. And so what I needed at that stage in my life to really be set free from achieving and making, you know, metric impact the goal. Instead, the goal was just obey God today.
- [49:04]
Meredith Brock
It's great.
- [49:04]
Sadie Robertson
You know, it's been a beautiful ride.
- [49:07]
Meredith Brock
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- [50:34]
Sadie Robertson
Whoa.
- [50:38]
Meredith Brock
Also having a flashback to when I had lunch with Lisa years ago and I was telling her about this kind of the struggles of like starting a ministry and not really knowing how to lead it. And she was like, you need to come and learn from our team. They're amazing. And I'm realizing the team is you friend and I need to learn from you. I'm like, so now that I'm here after the podcast, let me make sure I have your number, because you are who I need to learn from. I love it. It's so funny too. It reminds me so much of whenever two of my teammates first started working with me. They. They've been with me since the very beginning, which is for us, like seven and a half years. And I remember when I was kind of like pitching the vision, it was literally just that vision. And I remember being like, okay, guys, I know y'all have much more sure jobs right now. This is very set in stone because both of them did. I was like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't exactly know. But I do know this is what the Lord gave me and this is where I'm heading towards. And I. I need help. I need a team. And it's just so amazing because I look back at that and laugh because I was like 20, I was l barely 20 years old. I might have been 19 when I had this conversation with them and they both took the job and they're 10 years older than me. I look at them, I look like that. I'm so thankful. The Lord spoke louder than I did because a 19 year old with a vision from Lord, but God individually, you know, spoke to both of them and not nothing crazy. It wasn't audible. It wasn't like, this is the way you should. Both were unsure, but both of them just like leaned into it, took a step of faith and literally moved. One of them moved from California to Nashville. The other one is from Michigan, now lives in Louisiana with me. Like, it's just crazy. And I look at the their faith and I'm so inspired. And I mean, I had my own, you know, steps of faith to Say yes to what God was doing. And they did too. And it's so cool. Like you said, never in a million years would we imagine we'd be doing what we're doing now. And that those little yeses would lead to this, you know, big thing that we get to be a part of. But like, we're so grateful. Back in the day, we were obedient to what the Lord put on our heart before, like, we saw the full picture. And I think we, we talk about this verse a lot. But yout word is a lamp unto my feet and a light into my path. And how so often you want the lamp to light the whole path. Like you want vision for the whole path. Like I'm going to see what's down there 14 years from now.
- [52:58]
Mac Brock
Give me that vision.
- [52:59]
Meredith Brock
Never going to happen, you know, I mean, it could have been very rare that God gives you the whole vision. He gives you like the next step, the next step, you know, just enough to keep going and then you end up where you're at now and go, man, this is wild. This is beyond anything I could have ever imagined for myself. Like Ephesians 3:20, like, this is just beyond.
- [53:21]
Mac Brock
Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's been like a pruning thing for us because me and Meredith are both like, we are ambitious people and we do have like dreams and goals and things that we want, that we've wanted to see accomplished in our lives and to kind of our lives. I don't know, like, when I look at our life, even though we've always been that way, what are, what are our goals? What are our, like big, big time dreams? Dreams. The outcome of our life has never lined up with what we may have thought it was, you know, and we've never had like the ten year plan that came to fruition or the five year plan that came to fruition. But the Lord has like exceeded everything that we could have imagined and he's exceeded everything that we thought we might accomplish in our lives or see happen in our lives. And. But it's still like a pruning thing of like, to live like that every day is still. That's a tough thing.
- [54:14]
Sadie Robertson
It's surrender, you know, and surrender, surrender rarely feels good. It's. It's a, it's a, it's a. I hate it. I know. It's a giving up. It's a saying. I don't have what it takes. And you, God, do, you know, and that's where it is. It's hard, but I think we have been. I have been so grateful. I'm not saying we've done it perfectly, but I certainly look back at our 18 years of marriage and I say, wow, thank you, Lord.
- [54:39]
Mac Brock
Yeah.
- [54:40]
Sadie Robertson
That in the moments, there have been moments of surrender and obedience and we have seen the goodness of God on the other side of that.
- [54:52]
Meredith Brock
Great. It's beautiful. I. I love it. I love Yalls story in those things. And before we end, I do want to ask on a personal note, because, you know, y'all have taught so much about obedience and surrender and these big things in ministry, but I know that you guys open up your home as a place of fostering different people and even have a story of adoption. And I think that's a huge call of obedience and all of the different things. So can you share a little bit about just Yalls heart in the first place to start fostering kids and how you came to adopt your son?
- [55:23]
Mac Brock
Yeah. I mean, we've became licensed foster parents in 2020. I feel like we've been foster parents our whole lives.
- [55:32]
Sadie Robertson
I was like a pseudo foster kid, you know, and so because I lived with Caleb and Trish Tracy for six years, I was like, from the time I became a believer, I was like, I want to do this. I love for other people.
- [55:46]
Mac Brock
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Sadie Robertson
Like, it changed my life.
- [55:47]
Meredith Brock
Wow.
- [55:48]
Mac Brock
And even we'd been married maybe like two or three years and Meredith's 16 year old sister moved across the country to come live with us, finish high school here. And so, like, we've had like kind of a constant influx of people in and out of our house. But in 2020, we actually did it officially. And the very first placement that we got was a little boy named Zamir. And we didn't know if he would be with us for a month or six months or however long, but we were excited to have him in our home. And he's been with us for five years now. We finalized his adoption about a year ago. Yeah. And it's been an amazing journey and for us. Us. Yeah. I think that we have both been impacted from the investment of people in our lives, leaders in our lives, parents, or what do you call step in parents in our lives. And so to be able to do that for other people has always been a big part of our story and a part of our marriage. I would say for anybody that's like considering foster care or has like a heart for foster care or maybe you don't at all, which I did not. I was like terrified of foster care. My wife wanted to do it and I was like, that sounds too inconvenient and not very comfortable. And I like convenience and I like comfort so much. But I committed to taking the class and I committed to reading the books that I was supposed to read. And through that process really changed my heart for foster care and honestly, like, eased a lot of my misinformed fears of foster care. And so, yeah, through that process, like, changed my heart. And it's been such a journey for us. It's like a blessing. It is very, very hard. I don't want to, like, sugarcoat it. Like, foster care is crazy and it's difficult and it's messy and it's confusing and there's so many, like, the valleys, but it is so. There's so many positive things that have come out of it. And just even, you know, our son, like, came through. Foster care is such a powerful thing for our family. And then just the last thing, just like as a maybe a plug for foster care is there are lots of different ways to do it. You don't have to, like, if you have an interest in it. There's a lot of needs that are more than just like a permanent foster, you know, long term foster placement. Like, there's a lot of like short term care. Right. We're still licensed foster parents, but we only do short term care right now because we know that that's what we are capable, capable of doing at this season of life.
- [58:42]
Meredith Brock
Yeah.
- [58:42]
Mac Brock
And so it's a lot of like weekends or maybe a week here, a week there with different kids. So, yeah, there's a big need. There are a lot of needs. And yeah, it's awesome. It's. It's a, A big way to serve.
- [58:55]
Meredith Brock
It is.
- [58:55]
Sadie Robertson
It's a good. We've. It has changed the. It has changed the DNA of our family in the best kind of way and has, I feel like, really pruned away still. Still, every single day is pruning away selfishness.
- [59:14]
Mac Brock
Yeah.
- [59:15]
Sadie Robertson
You know, and this, when you. It is so easy, I think, in the Christian world, in the Christian bubble, to separate yourself from. And not on purpose. I think it just happens out of proximity to separate yourself from those who are most desperate in your own community and in most need because you go to a church that everybody looks the same and kind of comes from the same, you know, socioeconomic background and all that kind of stuff. And so to really step into the world of foster care forces you into proximity with some of the hardest, most desperate needs in your community. And then it forces you to either sink or swim and if you're going to swim, it means you're going to. You are going to sacrifice some of your own comfort and own needs to meet the needs of a child who can. Doesn't have the option to meet their own needs. So it's been really pruning for us in the best kind of way.
- [60:17]
Mac Brock
Yeah.
- [60:17]
Meredith Brock
I think that's such a beautiful testament to, like, again, you said sacrifices. It never feels good, you know, like, obedience. It's hard to be obedient whenever everything currently is working out or comfortably. It's a different thing to follow God when you're, like, desperate. You're like, I need to get out of this. God gives you a. Well, it's another thing when it's like, I'm happy where I'm at. I'm comfortable where I'm at, and you're telling me to go this direction. Direction. Like, that's hard because everything seems cool here. Like, gosh, I love.
- [60:47]
Mac Brock
I love being comfortable so much. It's my favorite thing. And the Lord just has to constantly say, nope, you gotta get out of that.
- [60:54]
Meredith Brock
I know. Well, I. I've been talking about Jonah a lot lately, but I think, like, that at the core of, like, the problem. There's a lot of core problems with Jonah and the story, but it was like, he's like, why would I go to Nineveh? Like, why would I go do that? Like, we're cool here. Like, and. And it's crazy, crazy because he's so confident to stand up in that boat, be like, I'm a believer. I fear the Lord while he's not doing what the Lord says. And I think that that is, like, where a lot of believers find ourselves. Like, we're confident to say, like, yeah, we believe in the Lord, we fear the Lord. But, like, are we willing to follow him in the places that you don't want to go? You know, actually preach it, girl. I've been on this kick, but it's really convicting me first and foremost. You know, that's how all messages are. It has to. It's really getting me right now because it's so true. Like, fostering and adopting is something that's been on our family's heart for a long time. And I don't know what the timing of it will look like for our family and what our story will be, but it really confronts. Before you even go through the process, it confronts you with your own selfishness and comfortability and fears. Like, and some fears are just selfish fears. Most fears are selfish fears. When it comes to those things. But I was like, I have to ask you. One, for our listeners, but two, because I'm learning and growing. And earlier this year, we had the people, the Martins, they did the story Possum Trot. I don't know if you guys have seen that movie. Oh, y'all are gonna love it. You gotta go watch that movie.
- [62:23]
Mac Brock
The movie's called Possum.
- [62:24]
Meredith Brock
It's called Possum Trot. I don't even want to tell you the story because you just gotta go watch it. I cried the entire time. Time after that. It led to my husband and I having, like, great conversations about it. But I love how you said Mac. Like, it wasn't on your heart, but you were open to even just having the conversation. And I think, like, that's the place as believers, like, we all have to get to the same as what you said earlier. Like, I would like to do this for the rest of my life. But, Lord, if you have something different, I'm willing. I would like to be comfortable. But, God, if you call me to adopt, I will, you know, like, if you call my name name, like, back to Jonah, then. Then I'm going to have to go, you know, and so, man, y story is so inspiring on so many levels. We could talk for so much longer, but I know we have to. We have to wrap, but thank you for one. Just being so open, sharing your story, living a life in full surrender and obedience to the Lord. I know that our listeners are going to learn so much. I personally have been so impacted and just really inspired by the couple that y'all are. So thank you.
- [63:25]
Mac Brock
Thanks for having us, Sadie.
- [63:26]
Sadie Robertson
Thanks for having us, Sadie. This has been a joy.