Chubby Chasers (w/ Jana Schmieding)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer

Episode: Chubby Chasers (w/ Jana Schmieding)
Release Date: March 28, 2025
Guest: Jana Schmieding (Comedian, Writer, Actress – "Rutherford Falls," "Reservation Dogs," host of "Sage Based Wisdom")

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Main Theme & Purpose

Nicole Byer welcomes comedian and actress Jana Schmieding to discuss the wild and winding realities of dating while fat, intersecting their own romantic histories, cultural observations, and the nuances of desirability, visibility, and self-acceptance. The conversation covers fatphobia in dating, "chubby chaser" dynamics, internalized shame, and the unique challenges and joys fat women face while seeking love. Along the way, Nicole and Jana swap uproarious stories, dissect pop culture, and share how relationships and dating have evolved for them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fat Women in the Dating World

• Visibility & Changing Cultures: Jana and Nicole reflect on increasing body positivity and visibility for fat women compared to when they started dating. Jana confidently recognizes a cultural shift:
  "I feel like the culture is changing... because fat women are more visible." (23:10)
• Dating App Experiences: Both share the unique pitfalls of dating-app culture for fat women. Jana met her current boyfriend (“a man of music,” a bass player) through Hinge, but both note the challenges: “The Gamified app... is a game... and it’s a lot of appearance-based things which, you know, as a fat lady, does not work in our favor." – Jana (10:50)
• Asking about Preferences: They talk openly about the awkward necessity of asking partners if they're "experimenting" or truly attracted: "All fat ladies are like, 'Is it your preference or is this like an experiment?'" – Nicole (11:36)

2. 'Chubby Chaser' Fetishization & Authentic Attraction

• Jana's Take: Jana’s boyfriend is attracted to “curvier” women, but she discusses the “chub chaser” scene and how her boyfriend found it off-putting, as it felt fetishizing rather than authentic (16:56–17:55).
• Societal Pressures & Internalized Shame: Both women talk about the ways they've internalized shame about being loved openly as fat women, and how past partners always seemed ashamed.
  “I'm the one who is like carrying the shame for them. I'm like, doing their own work for them.” – Jana (22:28) “Truly, you’ll fuck me, but you won’t hold my little fingies.” – Nicole (22:01)

3. Notable Pop Culture References

• Robbie Tripp & The "Curvy Wife":
  Nicole brings up Robbie Tripp, known for his viral celebration of his “curvy wife."
  “If you ever post about me on Instagram, can you say you love your curvy girlfriend?” – Nicole (15:05) They critique his music and agree culture would shift more if a more prominent artist made similar songs.
• Kanye West and Partner’s Outfits:
  Nicole and Jana riff on seeing Kanye West’s partner in public in pantyhose—critiquing controlling dynamics and objectification (07:18–09:28).

4. Stories of Wild Dates & Breakups

• Ghosting and App Breaks: Jana recounts being ghosted by a fat man she briefly dated, prompting a years-long break from dating apps (28:25–30:01).
• Ceremonial Breakup: One of the episode's highlights is Jana’s surreal breakup with a Native boyfriend who stages an elaborate “breakup ceremony” involving sage, abalone shells, and metaphorical gestures—followed by him forgetting his keys and tapping on her window:

  “He comes into my home carrying this eagle feather fan... He had brought over to my home two halves of an abalone shell and... if you don’t want to be with me anymore, turn the shell.” (34:07–39:42)

5. Body Issues and Self-Acceptance

• Body Shame & Dating Fat Partners: Nicole notes she never dated another fat person, and both agree they don't understand dating with body issues anymore (30:46–31:06).
• Public Perception: They discuss moments of being stared at in public, realizing more people than they thought are attracted to body diversity (22:52–23:38).
• Cultural and Historical Context: Jana references the Venus figurines as evidence of historical attraction to fat bodies (24:13–24:38).

6. Conflict and Relationships

• Adjusting to Partnership: Both share growing pains in learning how to consider a partner’s needs, especially after long stretches of being single (48:10–49:17).
• Conflict Resolution:
  Nicole describes learning in therapy to stop making herself the “main character in other people’s stories,” practicing non-defensive communication:

  “I try really hard not to immediately go, 'Oh, okay, so I’m a piece of shit, right?'... Instead, I’m like, I hear you, I just want to repeat back to you what you said.” (49:47–50:33)

• The Six-Second Kiss:
  Jana shares advice from the Gottmans: kiss your partner for six seconds daily to build connection (51:39–53:15).

7. Native Identity and Dating

• Labels & Language:
  Jana shares her thoughts on "Native American," "Indian," and language around identity (32:19–33:16).
• Cultural Expectations: Jana’s grandfather’s advice: “Don’t you ever get involved with another Native man. He will get you pregnant and leave you.” (33:25)
  Further stories about dating within and outside her community follow.

8. Advice For Single and Searching Listeners

• Categorize Your Loneliness:
  Jana recommends reflecting on what you truly want—sex, partnership, excitement—and using the right resources (apps, friends) accordingly:

  “Categorize your loneliness... I think that’s what helped me.” (57:33)

• Be Open to Experience:
  Jana’s own story—inviting her now-boyfriend on a weekend trip after just two weeks—proves that sometimes taking risks pays off.

• Nicole’s Golden Rule:

  “You never have to wonder if someone actually likes you. If they like you, they’ll let you know.” (61:20–61:44)

9. Memorable, Candid Moments

• On Being Annoying in Love:
  Nicole and Jana debate whether they “give too much space” and joke about striving to be “annoying” in a relationship (55:53–56:45).

• Nicole’s Cookie Tears:
  Nicole shares how she once burst into tears imagining a chocolate chip cookie without chips—her boyfriend had to reassure her it was a hypothetical world that didn’t exist (47:01–47:27).

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Notable Quotes

• Jana on Dating App Fatphobia:
  "As a fat lady, [dating apps] do not work in our favor, literally ever. Except for this one time and it’s because he is into a bigger girl." (11:18)

• Nicole on Newfound Acceptance:
  "Once I hit, like, 30, I was like, well, this is it. I’m gonna wear the bikini, I’m gonna show my arms, and if you don’t like it, then, like, I don’t know. What? You could go home." (30:50)

• Jana on Internalized Shame:
  "I, as a woman, have internalized so much of this shame. And I’m the one who is, like, carrying the shame for them. I’m like, doing their own work for them.” (22:28)

• Nicole’s Relationship Insight:
  "I’m working on not thinking I’m the main character in everyone else’s story." (49:47)

• On Taking Risks in Dating:
  “I took him on a two-week date or a weekend date to Palm Springs … I said wild, I know. I said, I’m gonna try doing something real wild and just see how it goes. It worked.” – Jana (60:13–60:27)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:31 – 07:18: Introductions, Erewhon shopping, and gym memberships
• 07:26 – 10:14: Kanye West’s partner, public spectacle, and pop culture
• 10:15 – 14:09: Hinge, chubby chasers, and dating fat women
• 14:10 – 17:31: Robbie Tripp and the "curvy wife" phenomenon
• 18:12 – 22:13: Examining partners' exes, body types, and public displays of affection
• 28:25 – 30:01: Ghosting and taking breaks from dating apps
• 31:06 – 33:16: Body image evolution and confidence
• 34:02 – 39:44: "Breakup Ceremony" story (not to be missed!)
• 45:48 – 47:27: Annoying girlfriend moments, wine-tasting meltdown
• 51:39 – 53:15: Six-second kisses and routines for intimacy
• 57:33 – 61:44: Best advice for finding fulfillment while single

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Memorable Moments

• Jana’s Story of “Turning the Shell” (34:07):
  The epic, invented breakup ceremony with the abalone shell that turns deeply awkward and hilarious when he forgets his car keys.
• Nicole’s Cookie Meltdown (47:01):
  "What would you do if someone gave you a chocolate chip cookie without the chips?" (Nicole, moved to tears.)
• Jana on Being Publicly Fat and Happy (23:07):
  “I probably could have gotten a new boyfriend just right outside, 100%. ... The culture is changing.”

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Tone

• Candid, Playful, Irreverent: Nicole and Jana are unfiltered, matching each other in wisdom and wit, blending self-deprecation with empowerment and humor.
• Vulnerable & Insightful: Both are open about insecurities, histories, and what it takes to be seen and loved authentically.

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Conclusion

"Chubby Chasers" is an incisive, heartfelt, and riotously funny exploration of dating while fat—full of practical wisdom, hard-won confidence, and a celebration of all the ways visibility and desire can (finally) come together for those who once felt overlooked. Jana and Nicole’s stories and chemistry put a hilarious, humane spotlight on the reality of fat dating, love, and friendship.

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Recommended for: Anyone interested in dating culture, body positivity, fat liberation, or just looking for a deeply entertaining listen about the real, messy, delightful sides of romance.

Transcript

[Jana]

This is a Headgun podcast.

[Nicole Byer]

Hey, did you know you can watch this entire episode right now? You sure can. Click the YouTube link in the description and come see me. If you've been thinking about upgrading your space, this is your sign, baby. Macy's is having their big ticket sales event and it's the time to snag the cutest comfy stuff you've been eyeing. And they have your whole home covered with. We're Talking up to 60% off furniture, mattresses and rugs during their lowest prices of the season event. And that Radley five piece sectional, it is just $2,179 right now. And that's the kind of couch that you can have sleepovers on or fall asleep on while your date watches Lord of the rings for the 100th time. And you said, not today, Satan. I've been looking at new rugs too. Because listen, nothing pulls a room together like a rug that says, yes, I'm grown, but I still have what fun. Macy's has them for 55 to 65% off. They've also got outdoor furniture up to 60 off, white glove delivery and great financing options. This sale is only running until September 15th, so don't sleep on it or do on your brand new mattress, which by the way is also 20 to 60% off. Hello, Honk shoe Honk shoe Honk Shoe shop. The big ticket sales now@macy's.com or in store. You your home deserves it.

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[Nicole Byer]

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you d.

[Jana]

Please tell me why.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh baby. Welcome to another episode of why Won't yout Date Me? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, was trying to figure out why I was still single. Even though you could come in the the neck of my shirt and say, that's a tag. My guest today. My guest today is an actress that you've seen on Rutherford Falls Reservation Dogs. And you can hear her in the new you're Dogman.

[Jana]

I didn't. I forgot. I. How do you know that that you're in Dogman? Oh, no, I can't remember what movie.

[Nicole Byer]

I was seeing, but I like went to the lobby and I looked up and I went, dog man. Now that's a movie for me.

[Jana]

You know, I'm really excited. I'm glad that you said it, because I don't know if it's a movie for me.

[Nicole Byer]

I don't. It's a cop dog, I think.

[Jana]

I think it's a man who turns into a cop dog. Yeah, A man cop and his dog, and they merge bodies.

[Nicole Byer]

That is for me. She's. She's also the host of the podcast Sage Based Wisdom. It's. Oh, Janice meeting.

[Jana]

Hi.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, I have a question. Are you dating? Are you single? Are you married? Are you on the apps? What's going on?

[Jana]

I am in a relash.

[Nicole Byer]

Nice. Nice, nice.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

From the apps or from real life?

[Jana]

From the apps. But I do like to lie about it and say that we met in the isles of Erewhon.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God. You know why I like that lie? Because both of you have so much money.

[Jana]

Exactly.

[Nicole Byer]

You have so much money that, like.

[Jana]

Exactly.

[Nicole Byer]

Cause, like, grocery shopping takes time out of your day. So, like, you were leisurely in the most expensive grocery store just perusing those expensive. Having a meet cute.

[Jana]

Totally. Having a me cute. In between the, like $25 organic granola in a mason jar and the like, $58 cacao nibs.

[Nicole Byer]

A goal. A goal for me is to do my regular shopping at Erewhon.

[Jana]

Me too. Oh, my gosh. Can I tell you something?

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Jana]

I got an. In order to try to manifest this fucking goal, I got an Erewhon membership.

[Nicole Byer]

They have membership?

[Jana]

Yes. I don't know why.

[Nicole Byer]

And what do you get?

[Jana]

You get. It costs $200 a year. And I think that it get. You get nothing but the feeling of being possibly rich.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, no.

[Jana]

You get certain deals membership they like. They'll be like, members only. It's a real fuck. Much like the grocery store itself. It is a scam.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Jana]

And that I fell for and willingly paid them $200.

[Nicole Byer]

Because, like a membership to a gym, I'm gonna use the equipment. I come back and the equipment will be there for me to use at no extra charge. If I use this membership, I buy the milk, I drink the milk, I gotta buy more milk.

[Jana]

Yeah. You know, it is a scam. I argue that a gym is a scam as well, because who's really using the gym membership? Are you?

[Nicole Byer]

No.

[Jana]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Nicole Byer]

I was a member at Planet Fitness. All bodies welcome. I don't know if that's their tagline, but I like that all their machines were purple and that it was $20 a month. But let me tell you, those motherfuckers got me for all my pennies.

[Jana]

Oh, yeah. And for years.

[Nicole Byer]

For years. And then I joined LA Fitness out here. I hadn't gone since before the pandemic. I know. And guess when I discovered I still was a member of this year.

[Jana]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did the same thing for LA Fitness. I hate that.

[Nicole Byer]

It's terrible. But also, the gym is disgusting. Disgusting. And yeah, I don't know how you self identify. I identify as a fat lady.

[Jana]

Same.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Jana]

A big old fat lady. A big old fat fat lady.

[Nicole Byer]

But anytime I went to the gym, people would be like, good job. Oh, my God.

[Jana]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

That's not a way to get me back here. That's a way to make me feel very bad.

[Jana]

I know. I hate the way that they greet you as you leave the gym. They're like, namaste. You know, like, you've really, you've really leveled up today, girl.

[Nicole Byer]

You did it. And I was like, please stop being encouraging. Like, I went to LA Fitness in Hollywood on Hollywood Boulevard, so sometimes hello Kitty would come in off the street for a shower. I'm like, we don't have to encourage me to come back. I made the choice to be here. No, I don't want to be here.

[Jana]

I couldn't do a hello Kitty gym.

[Nicole Byer]

And I once saw a man Winnie the Pooh ing at just a shirt sitting on the equipment.

[Jana]

No, no, no, no. And I remember, wait, bare balls, just right there on the, on the bench. Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

Balls out, dick out. Just sitting down, maybe moving a little bit and going to the next place and moving, and nobody stopped him. He, like went into the, the fitting room, the dressing room, the locker room, like of his own volition. I think he was like, well, I've had enough.

[Jana]

He's like, God, I've sweated on all of the equipment. I better go, I guess. Wash these nards. Wash these naked ass nards.

[Nicole Byer]

Gotta wash my nards. Well, you know, maybe he was a trend center. Did you see Kanye West's girlfriend or wife? I don't know who she is.

[Jana]

I don't know who she is either. What they. How they self identify. But that was brutal.

[Nicole Byer]

It was wild. Did you guys see it?

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Ad Voice / Other Guest]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God.

[Jana]

Brutal. This will be a few months after. Do you want to recap for the listeners?

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, okay. So, guys, I'm sure a thousand more awful things have happened in the zeitgeist because everything is another notch into hell.

[Jana]

But also, this really, this is kind of Culturally sticking out in our minds. We've been watching this Kanye west shit unfold for such a long time.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay, here's the thing. I feel like if you talk to him, he'll be like, yeah, I dressed her. But yeah, he didn't dress her. She's not even where. She's wearing, like a.

[Jana]

She's wearing a pantyhose.

[Nicole Byer]

A pantyhose dress.

[Jana]

One pantyhose?

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Jana]

It's the thinnest pantyhose you've ever seen in your life.

[Nicole Byer]

And then I was like, wait, is this visually attract? Like, her titties are all smushed, and you don't even get to see how round and nice they are.

[Jana]

We're getting full beef.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, Full bushless beef.

[Jana]

Bushless beef, bitch.

[Nicole Byer]

Aren't you cold?

[Jana]

The cold. She must have been freezing. I mean, listen, all I could look at really was her face.

[Nicole Byer]

Her tense face.

[Jana]

Her tense face. That was just like, I missed standing here for the picture and Kanye to the side being like, yeah, yeah, let them take your picture. It was bad.

[Nicole Byer]

It was very, very bad. If my partner ever was like, I want you to dress up in this pantyhose and go out in public and you'll take off your coat and you're gonna show everybody your whole body, I would be like, I. Well, he keeps dating women who don't seem to talk, so maybe there is no discussion.

[Jana]

I think that's.

[Nicole Byer]

They talk at home.

[Jana]

I think that that's part of it. Well, I have also seen follow up pictures of them at the after party where she's also wearing basically a one piece swimsuit to a party, and they're just, like, making out on the dance floor, and he's grabbing her ass. So. And it seems like they kind of are talking and laughing. So it is a publicity stunt for sure. And I. But I also feel strongly that, like, the. It's a controlling. The voiceless.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jana]

Model girlfriend is not a cool look in. In 2025.

[Nicole Byer]

No, we're in the future. You can talk.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Also, she, like, blew him in a gondola. Like, what? In a gondola?

[Jana]

Yeah, just like, raw, dogging it right out in the open, going down those canals.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, there's a man in a striped shirt fucking.

[Jana]

He's trying to sing his little opera.

[Nicole Byer]

Why would you do that?

[Jana]

And all you can hear is fucking gargling Kanye's nasty balls, which is just so gross. I think Kanye's disgusting.

[Nicole Byer]

And here's the thing. He did such good music.

[Jana]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

I liked him. For a long good time.

[Jana]

Listen, so many of our men in music have really fucked up.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

[Jana]

Speaking of men in music, my current boyfriend is a man of music.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, is he?

[Jana]

He's a bass player. He's an electric bass player.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, that's fun. How did you guys meet? Oh, wait, you met on air. Oh, you met at Airwoman.

[Jana]

Yes. No, we did meet on. What's the. What's the. The Hinge.

[Nicole Byer]

I like Hinge, but I just saw a video on Instagram saying Hinge is the worst. This, that and the other. But anyone I've dated more than two months I met on Hinge, I think.

[Jana]

They'Re all the worst. Yeah, I think they're all. Here's. I mean, the Gamified app. The Gamified dating app world is. We have to look at it for what it is. It's a game on our. It's a video game on our phones that is matching us based on technological algorithmic weird shit that I don't fully understand. And it's a lot of appearance based things which, you know, as a fat lady does not work in our favor literally ever. Yeah. Except for this one time and it's because he is into a bigger girl. My man, he likes.

[Nicole Byer]

Did you ask or was it volunteered information?

[Jana]

I asked, I think.

[Nicole Byer]

I mean, tell me in the comments. I feel like all fat ladies are like, is it. Is it your preference or is this like an experiment? Like, oh, yeah. What is like after like a month or two. And it's not that I don't find myself attractive. I'm just making sure.

[Jana]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

That you're not going to do something mean.

[Jana]

Yeah. That you're not like, isn't a. She's always. Yeah. No, I mean, we've had actually several. Several talks about it. I still ask him questions about it because I'm so fucking curious. Like, what. How. How. How has this. How have you become this? You know, and he. How have you become this? How have you become this? How have you become this? Whatever you people are. Because I think that there is. He has like. I don't want to like blow up his spot at all, but to. To add some context to the conversation about dating apps and fatness or dating and fatness in general, or romance and fatness. This is a person who I really never thought I would ever meet. Like a person, a man that is like this. My only experience up until him has been men who it seemed like I'm putting up with you. I think your personality is very attractive, but I'm going to sort of have to put up with the shame that I feel fucking you, or I'm just not going to indulge in. In your personality at all. You're truly just maybe even a friend. I don't know.

[Nicole Byer]

You know, you're a friend that I'll occasionally and deal with, or you're a.

[Jana]

Friend that I'll flirt with and never actually fuck and say it's because I don't want a relationship. And then a month later, I'm going to get into a relationship with a thin w woman who is 20 years younger than me.

[Nicole Byer]

It's very specific.

[Jana]

Yeah, listen. I mean, I feel like I've been down this road so many times. It's like my whole dating experience. But when I met Steve, he was just very obviously attracted to me and was not afraid to tell me how attracted to me he was. And it was like, oh, this weird feeling of, oh, my God, like, unashamed, you know, Would scream it on the hilltops. And so I had so many questions. I was like, how are you not ashamed? You know? And I not saying, like, no, I get it.

[Nicole Byer]

Because there's a societal pressure for a woman to look X certain way. I just showed my boyfriend. Do you remember the man who loved his curvy wife?

[Jana]

Oh, do I? I have made so many Twitter jokes about I love my curvy wife.

[Nicole Byer]

Robbie Tripp.

[Jana]

Robbie Tripp. I love my curvy wife.

[Nicole Byer]

He makes music and.

[Jana]

And it's about his curvy wife.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, well, it's about curvy women in general.

[Jana]

Okay.

[Nicole Byer]

It's one of those things where he got famous for one thing or for one thing.

[Jana]

And he was like, well, I'm gonna lean on it.

[Nicole Byer]

I'm not a three dimensional person.

[Jana]

Let's keep it one dimensional.

[Nicole Byer]

There's this one song that I actually think is a bop. It's like the Big Girl Bop.

[Jana]

No, no, I reject this. No, I'm gonna play it the Big Girl Bop.

[Nicole Byer]

No, it's really fun. Oh, my God.

[Jana]

To my boyfriend at home.

[Nicole Byer]

Have to do take notes. And I said to my boyfriend, I was like, if you ever post about me on Instagram, can you say you love your curvy girlfriend?

[Jana]

Oh, my God. And did he say y.

[Nicole Byer]

He said, only if I buy the outfit that he. That they're wearing in the picture. And I was like, he's wearing a white polo and pink shorts. Don't test me.

[Jana]

Halloween.

[Nicole Byer]

Get it? Are you kidding?

[Jana]

Hold on.

[Nicole Byer]

Let me find Robbie Tripp.

[Jana]

Like, it's.

[Nicole Byer]

I really like It.

[Jana]

Okay.

[Nicole Byer]

It's a big girl banger.

[Jana]

It's a big girl ban. Stretch marks tattooed on the What? On the ass, I think. Wait, did she get stretch marks tattooed?

[Nicole Byer]

No, I think he's saying.

[Jana]

So he's saying stretch marks, comma, tattoos on the ass.

[Nicole Byer]

We gotta dissect this stretch mark tattooed on the tan lines. It's a big girl stretch mark tattooed.

[Jana]

On the tan lines.

[Nicole Byer]

Big boobs are natural.

[Jana]

Swing low, let's bounce around. You know what? It actually kind of is a fucking bop. Like, if. If anybody else besides Robbie Tripp made that, like, let's say Kanye did a song like that, or Kendrick.

[Nicole Byer]

I think we'd all be really excited about it.

[Jana]

I think we would. And I think that it would change the culture in our favor. The fact that Robbie Tripp is doing it now is. Does not bode well for us.

[Nicole Byer]

No. And also, he, like, he'll make videos. It'll just be a lady with a fat ass, like, running that way. And then he's like.

[Jana]

His eyes go.

[Nicole Byer]

Is that what your boyfriend's like whenever you walk past?

[Jana]

He's like, he fucking better be. Oh, my God. No. But he is. He has experienced sort of the scene of, dare I say, chub chasing. He has been to, like, like, bars, like, meetups, and he was really kind of grossed out by it because it was a lot of thin or straight sized men and fat women.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Jana]

And so it. He was just like, this is not what I am. This is not an authentic experience fetishizing this. Like, it's not into the fetish scene. He thought it might be a cool opportunity to meet women who were fat but not, like, it was, like, kind of sleazy and more sexy than I think he was.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. Like, more sex forward than like, oh, I want to meet somebody. I want to date. Right.

[Jana]

Right. Um, so, yeah, that is. And he, like, has dated other fat women in his life. And all of his relationships have been with curvier at the. At the bottom level. Curvy.

[Nicole Byer]

I. Let's see. I dated this dude. Cause I love finding out what ex girlfriends look like. I dated this dude who dated, like, a curvy girl before me and then a girl in between, like, me and her size after me. And I was like, interesting.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

And then I dated this other guy who had dated not fat, but, like, bigger than most. And then me. And then the woman he dated after me was, like, a little smaller than me, and I was like, huh, what is. What is the. I don't. I simply couldn't Figure out the correlation. I think it was God being like, stop looking.

[Jana]

I think. I think. Here's what I think. Yeah, truly. Because I also one time was scrolling on. You know how on Instagram you can see what your friends have liked? And sometimes it will come into your algorithm and you'll be like, oh, this person. Like this. And I'm following that person. So I. So I'm seeing it now. Well, one time I scrolled past a little Instagram post from Timothy Tiffany Amber Thiessen sitting on her bed with, like, naked. With her covers. And the caption was like, this is 50. And it was just like, sexy Tiffany Amber Thieveson. And I had. And if I'm not following Tiffany, I should. She is looking great. But it was my boyfriend who had liked it. And so it came into my feed, and I said, jokingly, I said, hey, you know what I saw today on the Gram? I saw Old Tiff.

[Nicole Byer]

Old Tiff.

[Jana]

Old tiff. This is 50. And he was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I was like, it's fine. It's fine. Like, people like things.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, I don't give a fuck.

[Jana]

Like, I'm not threatened by your. And he's like, she's a great actor.

[Nicole Byer]

That's very. He was like, the picture had nothing to do with it. I really think she's a great actor.

[Jana]

I go, yeah, she acts great in that bed. But I will say, I have asked him so many times, like, talk to me about, like, what is it that you growing up, like, as an adolescent? What shaped this? And he was like, I just have always been into it. He was like, when I was a young dude. Mm. This is back when, like, porn was not online. It was like, you had to go.

[Nicole Byer]

In and rent a library.

[Jana]

You had to rent, and you had to buy magazines. And he. He said. He's like, there were only. There were certain magazines, like Jugs, for example, which is Jug for boo.

[Nicole Byer]

Big Titty.

[Jana]

He was like, those are kind of like the only magazines that had curvy or bigger women.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, interesting.

[Jana]

And so he would be into it, but it was hard to find. And he was like, I just have never developed shame about it.

[Nicole Byer]

Huh.

[Jana]

Which I think is so interesting.

[Nicole Byer]

I do love that. I dated a dude who I was like, do you prefer bigger women? And he was like, yes. And I was like, why? And he was like, I don't know.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

I felt like he thought I was shaming him, but I was genuinely just, like, curious. Cause he was like, the first person I dated who I guess was like, I don't know. I stopped feeling like self conscious about like ordering something other than a salad, which is so funny to like, be fat and order a salad and be like, I don't know how I got this way. This is simply all I eat.

[Jana]

Do you believe me? Like, my hormone, like, it's. I swear to God, I'm not going to order five orders of kung Pao chicken once you leave tonight.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, it's so unhinged that it's like, oh my God, I'm so full. Like, he was the first person that was like, I'm going to gobble all this shit down and I simply don't care.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

And then he'd be like, yeah, eat. Like, do you want some of mine?

[Jana]

Are you okay? No, I'm fine.

[Nicole Byer]

I ordered enough. But it is weird to like, I feel like when I was younger I would date dudes who like, wouldn't even hold my hand in public, which is like a wild thing to be like, truly, you'll fuck me, but you won't hold my little fingies.

[Jana]

Truly. And what it is, what I have come to learn through dating him is, oh, there are so we have. I, as a woman have internalized so much of this shame.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes.

[Jana]

And I'm the one who is like carrying the shame for them. I'm like, doing their own work for them, you know, and like, and, and from what I. He. My boyfriend tells me that there are so many fucking men, straight men in our world who are just into a bigger woman. And of course they would be. There's so much cushion for the push. And it's hot as hell. Yes, it's fucking hot as hell.

[Nicole Byer]

A lot of men stared at me today when I was wearing my little hell yeah sweatshirt. But also I was holding an ice cream cone and everyone kept smiling. And you're like, smiling at, I mean, yes. Having the nicest of times.

[Jana]

Uh huh.

[Nicole Byer]

I probably could have gotten a new.

[Jana]

Boyfriend just right outside, 100%. I truly believe, like, I feel strongly. And this is not just because I have a boyfriend after being single for however, 15 years or whatever, but I feel like the culture is changing and I don't know, I don't think it's changing because Kim Kardashian got butt implants. I think it's changing because fat women are more visible. And I think because somehow we are encouraging that visibility is encouraging men to dispel their shame about loving us and wanting us. And I mean, you see Venus de Milo or not Venus de Milo, the Venus, the oldest statue artifact to ever be found by archaeologists is this that little fat woman who has, like a big. What is it called? Venus. It's called the Venus figure. Venus figurine. It's a Venus figurine and it was found in, I believe, in Africa or on the African continent. And it is a figurine of a fat woman with big, saggy titties.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, yeah, I love her. She's so cute.

[Jana]

She's so cute. But that is like the first deity to be uncovered from the earth.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, who I want to figure out who is the person who is, like, thin. Thin's what I want. Don't we want to all be very thin? Because I think fat people are just cuter.

[Jana]

I agree.

[Nicole Byer]

I agree.

[Jana]

There's so much like. There's so. It's just like diversity, you know, it's like body diversity is interesting. It's cool and cute to look at. And also our personalities are on fucking point.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, you gotta be funny, Truly. You can't be fat and not fud.

[Jana]

You can't be fat and a piece of shit.

[Nicole Byer]

No. You know what's interesting? You say that. I believe that in my heart until I watch 600 pound life where I'm like, boy, oh, boy, these people are fat. And, yeah, like, some of them are so rude.

[Jana]

We are not a monolith.

[Nicole Byer]

We are. Fat people are not a monolith. There was one episode where this man was truly, like, 800 pounds. And I'm not shitting on, you know, the weight. The weight I'm shitting on. This man's response, so Dr. Now is like, you should have lost more weight. He's like, you're eating too much. And this man who's over 700 pounds, said, well, I don't want to be malnourished. And I was like, I don't think that's gonna happen.

[Jana]

No, I think you're okay, my friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Maybe you'll be anemic or iron deficient, but you're not gonna be malnourished. The body will eat itself. I hear.

[Jana]

I hear that too. And I hate to try.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, Jana, we have to take a break.

[Jana]

Oh, God.

[Nicole Byer]

Sip that water.

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[Nicole Byer]

So you were single for how long before meeting your current partner?

[Jana]

I feel like I don't know exactly how long because I had relationships that were sort of kind of relationships. I like dated a little bit, fucked around a little bit, but there was never a meaningful relationship. And I want to say that that was like roughly 15 years of being a single woman that was like pretty much all through my like 20s and 30s.

[Nicole Byer]

What's like a memorable date you went on, good or bad?

[Jana]

You know, I had, I actually went on some dates with this when I first moved to LA, which was in 2016 from New York. He was a fat black man and he was so goofy and fun and cool and I was like, oh my God, this guy is a match. It's a match. And I was really into him and he actually this is an interesting moment when I this is like kind of the first man that I dated where I was like, oh, I feel like I'm taking care of your body issues more than like you're like he was really insecure about his size and I found myself constantly being like, it's okay, like I think you're hot and I'm into it. Like, whatever, it's not a big deal to me or, but I Know that it's not about me. Whatever. You know, I was just trying to, like, be cool about it, but it came up a lot, and he was. But anyway, he ended up ghosting me. We dated for, like, a month and a half, and he ended up kind of, like, ghosting me. And. And it was one of those situations where I was, like. I was. I, like, completely delusional about how we felt about each other. It just seems like we were having such a good time. That was the last person that. From. That. That was, like, 20, maybe 2016, top of 2017. I turned on. Off the apps forever.

[Nicole Byer]

Really?

[Jana]

I stopped.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jana]

No apps.

[Nicole Byer]

No apps.

[Jana]

No apps through the Trump presidency and, well, until Biden's.

[Nicole Byer]

I know I was dating. I said, the world's ending. I'm getting fudge. I was on. I was on those apps.

[Jana]

Ooh.

[Nicole Byer]

I was on them. I only deleted them. I think it was the beginning of 2023. I, like, got rid of them, and I was like, no, more. Can't do this.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

I've actually never dated another fat person. I've just never matched with another. I've swiped yes on fat people. I just. They don't match with me, and I don't know why. Same.

[Jana]

That was the only time it was. It was very interesting.

[Nicole Byer]

I also. Okay, this is gonna sound insane. I don't really understand having body issues.

[Jana]

I don't. I don't anymore. But I do also.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, yeah, growing up, I did, but once I hit, like, 30, I was like, well, this is it.

[Jana]

Truly, this is it.

[Nicole Byer]

I'm gonna wear the bikini. I'm gonna show my arms, and if you don't like it, then, like, I don't know. What? You could go home. I don't know.

[Jana]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, I remember being in Palm Springs, and I was wearing a bikini and this, like. I think he was French or something. He wasn't speaking English, but he was, like, staring at me, and he was with his family, and I was like, you like what you see? And he, like, got startled, and I was like, oh, then maybe you did. I don't.

[Jana]

Yeah, he probably did. That's what I'm realizing is, like, oh, my body issues are, like, actually the opposite of how people.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. I think. I think more people think more things are beautiful. I don't know. It's. It's all. It's also like a. It's like a tough conversation.

[Jana]

It is a tough combo, and it has many layers and levels. And I also think that, like, depending on sort of the Intersections that happen with it, you know, that goes into it. It's like, you know, dating and bodies. Woohoo. Dating and bodies is such an interesting thing for me and something that I'm so fascinated by because regardless of whether we have insecurity about our bodies, all of us have insecurity about sex and, and certain shame, like dark things about sex.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jana]

And how those things kind of collide is fucking fascinating.

[Nicole Byer]

We should all be in therapy.

[Jana]

Oh boy. Boy.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. Are you, you're Nate. You're a Native American. Yes. I've asked other Native American people and I've been told Indian is also fine. How do you feel?

[Jana]

I think, yeah. I mean, I say Indian when I'm talking to other Indians.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. That's essentially what he was getting at. He was like, call me whatever, but he's like, I grew up as an Indian and then all of a sudden I was Native American.

[Jana]

I know.

[Nicole Byer]

And it's like, I just, I say Indian.

[Jana]

Yeah. I think Native American is maybe the, the, the corniest of all in my currently.

[Nicole Byer]

And I think African American's pretty up there.

[Jana]

Oh yeah. I mean, in terms of my.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. You know, anything with American on it, it's like, oh, come on, we don't.

[Jana]

Have to put the American on it.

[Nicole Byer]

Just say I'm black, please.

[Jana]

Truly. I'm like, just. I would rather somebody call me an Indian before they called me a Native American just for PR reasons. I don't want to be associated, man.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, it's not going great here.

[Jana]

We didn't come up with that name.

[Nicole Byer]

So. Did your parents ever pressure you to like, be with another Indian person?

[Jana]

No. I think actually I have a very stark memory of my own Native grandfather saying, don't you ever get involved with another Native man. He will get you pregnant and leave you.

[Nicole Byer]

Wow. So.

[Jana]

But I have dated one. I have dated one Native man and it was a little too sacred for me.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Jana]

He was really on his native discovery journey, so he really wanted me to. Let's just say that he. When we broke up. When I broke up with him.

[Nicole Byer]

Uh huh.

[Jana]

Which was but a month or two into the relationship. This was in college.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Jana]

He performed what I believe to be a fake and invented breakup ceremony on me in my home.

[Nicole Byer]

Wait, this man's an icon. That's so fucking funny.

[Jana]

It was so funny. But also, I had just gotten home from a like very long dress rehearsal for a play that I was doing and I was so fucking tired. All I wanted to do was smoke a bowl and go to freaking bed and this guy comes over. I had already dumped him during the day at school and said, let's say goodbye. He comes into my home carrying this eagle feather fan, which is, yes, if you know, you know, a big ceremonial eagle feather fan. And he comes into my room and he says, we need to talk. He sits down with me on my bed and I'm like, oh, God, here we go. He sits down next to me and he's sort of like, are you sure you wanna make this decision? We are meant for each other. He's crying. I'm trying to rummage up tears because I don't want him to feel bad. I mean, that's the woman I am. I don't want you to feel bad.

[Nicole Byer]

You're very giving.

[Jana]

I'm very generous with my fake emotions.

[Nicole Byer]

I love that.

[Jana]

So I was really like, yes, I do think it's the right thing. Oh, I'm so sorry. And he was like. When he. He held out. Do you know what abalone shells are? Abalone is the shell that in the inside of the shell it looks sort of like spilled gasoline.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Jana]

So the abalone shell has a side that it connects on. And a lot of native people use an abalone shell to burn sage or sweet grass or whatever medicine, you know, and they use it to like put snub out the burning sage, let's say. So he had brought over to my home two halves of an abalone shell and he had put like herbs and rocks and fucking bullshit medicine into each side. And he held one side to me, he gave one side to me and he held the other. And he said, if you do not want to be with me anymore, turn the shell so that it doesn't. The ends don't match. Turn it in my own hand so the ends don't match.

[Nicole Byer]

In your own house?

[Jana]

In my own home. He made me turn the shell and I said turned.

[Nicole Byer]

And then what did he do?

[Jana]

And then he acted as if a stake had gone through his heart.

[Nicole Byer]

I love this man. This man's very funny. Have we kept up with him?

[Jana]

No, because you know, he had an assault allegation after he dated me. Oh, no. He had a full on assault allegation. This guy got kicked out of school. Oh, yeah. I willingly fucked that.

[Nicole Byer]

Wow. But you dodged a bullet.

[Jana]

I kind of dodged a bullet. I sort of like willingly jumped into the bullet and then, boy, as soon as the turning the shell happened. The best part of the story though, I have to tell you this, is we went through this whole ceremony bullshit. And it took Forever. It was like a two hour conversation that we had to have to really break up.

[Nicole Byer]

The whole ceremony was two hours?

[Jana]

Yes. He was making it last so long and I was like, I'm so tired. I gotta get high and go to sleep, man. And he finally like, you know, when it was ceremony was over, he had successfully burnt, like, taken a lighter to the medicine in the shells and like put it, dumped the ashes into a picture, into the back of a framed picture of himself to give to me. I'm telling you, psychotic, iconic.

[Nicole Byer]

That is so funny. I'm gonna burn this and then I'm gonna give her a picture of myself with the ashes of something or the ashes of our relationship. Oh my God.

[Jana]

And it's framed.

[Nicole Byer]

Do you still have it?

[Jana]

No. Maybe. I don't know. I hope not. That's bad medicine. I don't want that curse, so.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh yeah, maybe it is a curse.

[Jana]

Yeah, I feel like that's curse vibes.

[Nicole Byer]

That's so fucking funny.

[Jana]

But then he was like. He stood up solemnly and as if we wouldn't see each other because we knew each other through the Native American Student Union at school where we were always hanging out. I was constantly organizing there. So as if we weren't gonna see each other the very next day, he stands up and he says goodbye and he goes in for a hug and gives me this long hug. And then he turns and leaves and he walks out the front door. And it's snowing in Eugene, Oregon, which is like it never snows in Eugene. So it was just like so fucking sacred. Like it was just the most nativy moment. It's as if he wrote this in a script. And it's happening, it's unfolding before him and he leaves and he walks out to his car and I go back into my bedroom and I'm like, time to get ripped. Pull out my big bong. And I'm just like, you know. And I like lean back. My bed is against the wall with the window on it. So there's a window right here. And I lean back and I'm like, that was wild, man. Holy fuck. And I hear this ting, ting, ting, ting, ting on my window. And I open the blinds and it's him. And he goes, I forgot my keys.

[Nicole Byer]

I.

[Jana]

He blew it.

[Nicole Byer]

Love him. Even though he's guilty of assault.

[Jana]

Yep.

[Nicole Byer]

Pre knowing that I really liked him. Very truly. Unhinged.

[Jana]

Unhinged.

[Nicole Byer]

He.

[Jana]

He. That's not the only ceremony he made me do. He. There were many.

[Nicole Byer]

What other many?

[Jana]

One time he made me Go to the beach with him. The Oregon coast, which is crazy cold. So yeah, so cold. It's so cold and windy and just gloomy. The Oregon coast is not to be fucked with. It's not inviting. But he took me to the Oregon coast to do a, some kind of a cleansing ceremony where he jumped into the ocean naked and made me sit on the shore and wait for him. And he like did a little, little polar plunge in the fucking ocean. Came out fully naked and. And then he didn't even bring a towel. He had like forgotten this crucial thing and instead he had a, like a, a wool Pendleton blanket that he dried off with. A wool blanket after being in the cold ass ocean of Oregon.

[Nicole Byer]

Really funny, dude.

[Jana]

This guy was insane.

[Nicole Byer]

He's great.

[Jana]

He had no idea what he was doing to. The guy was improvising these massive ceremony.

[Nicole Byer]

I love that. He's like, I want to do a polar punch. It's a ceremony.

[Jana]

Yeah, exactly.

[Nicole Byer]

I love that. What else did he do?

[Jana]

Oh God. Here's a non ceremonial tidbit about him. He only listened to one song ever and it was Chumbawamba. I get knocked down but I get up again. Every time we got into his giant truck, he would just be like, you drink a whiskey, drink, you drink a vodka. It would just like constant Chumbawamba, dude. I was like, who even listens to Chumbawamba once?

[Nicole Byer]

I'm obsessed with him. I love a misbehaving weirdo, but not like that kind of misbehaving. You did say he assaulted somebody. Like that's not fun. I don't like that. I don't co sign that.

[Jana]

Nope.

[Nicole Byer]

But listening to Chumbawamba, fun.

[Jana]

Coming up with very funny dating ceremonies.

[Nicole Byer]

To just do what you want funny. That's very funny. I went through a Limp Bizkit phase rather recently where anytime we got in the car, me and my boyfriend Limp Bizkit would be playing the album's significant other.

[Jana]

It's one of my favorite albums. Just going hard.

[Nicole Byer]

I love it. And then he was driving once and he had a 90s playlist on and I think nookie came on. And then he was like, and we're skipping. And I was like, oh, oh. I was like, oh my God, is that like a blow to me? And I was like, no, Nicole. We went on a two hour drive where we listened to the fuck full album. And then I was like, play it again. And then every time he got in my car for like three months, it was always playing. It makes sense that he was like not again. Like he had PTSD from me being like, I did it all for the nookie.

[Jana]

The one.

[Nicole Byer]

Fred Durst has a movie called Fanatic. O I am the only person who has ever seen it.

[Jana]

I've never even heard of it.

[Nicole Byer]

It stars John Travolta making some questionable choices and Devon Sawa is also in it. I would say he's making better choices than old John Travolta. I won't say whether it's a good movie or not because I have an interesting taste in movies. I've seen Craven now four times.

[Jana]

Oh.

[Nicole Byer]

I have been talking about Craven since it has come out. It is now March. When does this come out?

[Jana]

Yeah, the end of March.

[Nicole Byer]

The end of March. And I bet you I'll still have it on my mind.

[Jana]

I haven't seen Craven yet. Nobody has.

[Nicole Byer]

It made $2 in the box office and those $2 were mine. I fucking love Craven. I watched it with my boyfriend. He was like. I was lamenting about how nobody will watch it with me. And he was like, but you've already seen it twice. And I was like, yeah, but I want to watch it again and nobody will watch it with me. He's like, I'll watch it with you. But then I was like cleaning. So I was just watching it and then he came over and he was like, so you watched Craven without me?

[Jana]

You're like, and then we'll watch it together after I'm done.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, that's what I said. I said we can start it right over again.

[Jana]

I'm happy to watch it 50,000 times.

[Nicole Byer]

And then he was like, no, I think you need a craven break. And I was like, no, I don't.

[Jana]

Need a. I think you need to fuck up.

[Nicole Byer]

Don't me. When I need a craven break, I never need one. I'm a one man promotional wagon for this movie Craven that nobody has seen. I'm telling you, you gotta see it. There's a man who becomes a rhino.

[Jana]

What? I'm on board and I simply can't.

[Nicole Byer]

Explain it to you. More than he goes to the doctor in New York and that was an option.

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[Nicole Byer]

Tell me more about dating. Do you have more stories about men that are bad?

[Jana]

I have nothing but stories about men that are bad. This is the first boyfriend I've had that is actually good. Oh, that's nice. But all of my other stories. Here's the thing. I got so tired of being like, all my dating stories are hilarious. I would love to have a not funny, just normal ass dating story. Yes. But every breakup that I've had has been wild as hell.

[Nicole Byer]

Have you ever broken up with someone and held them hostage?

[Jana]

No, because I'm not that kind of psycho. That's. I will. I will scream and cry and like be so sad about a breakup or a ghosting or something, but he will never know that I have. I will keep it locked inside. My big problem is I don't want to inconvenience anybody with my big feelings. And that's my therapy.

[Nicole Byer]

That's really what Rachel I love inconveniencing people with my big feelings. I have big feelings all the time.

[Jana]

So do I. I just don't express them. And that is something I'm working on now with my boyfriend is like, okay, I'm gonna express my feelings and you're gonna have to like, handle it.

[Nicole Byer]

Interesting. I. They just fall out of me. My boyfriend once was like, because I love chocolate chip cookies. He was like, and I love a gooey one. He was like, what would you do if someone gave you a chocolate chip cookie without the chips? And I burst right into tears because.

[Jana]

Because I didn't want to live in that world. Just a hypothetical cookie. Cookie.

[Nicole Byer]

It's happened like eight times where he asks me a hypothetical and it makes me cry.

[Jana]

That's so weird. That's gotta be something that is about more than the cookie.

[Nicole Byer]

No, I simply thought about it and I didn't want to live in that world. And he had to say, just kidding. We don't live in that world.

[Jana]

Oh, God. Oh, wow. What else have has made you cry? The alternate reality. I'm trying to think. Have you guys had any, like, real, like, dust ups? How long have you been dating or been together?

[Nicole Byer]

Almost a year.

[Jana]

Huh.

[Nicole Byer]

And we have not had a fight, like, a real fight. We've had like a couple disagreements.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

We've had tiffs where, like, since I travel a lot, like, changing plans and then assuming that he'll adjust to it as opposed to being like, hey, I'm thinking about changing this to come home that day. Just floating it, like, not asking permission, but just like remembering that there's somebody else in my life.

[Jana]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

And I feel like he has had a little bit of an adjustment of like, remembering that there's another person in his life. That's where most of our conflict comes from. Interesting. Being used to being in a relationship.

[Jana]

I think that's a big part of it because it's not used to being in a relationship. I'm not either.

[Nicole Byer]

No. I had dated somebody on and off for like two years who didn't ever want to be talked about, so I didn't really talk about him on the podcast and. Oh, what was my point?

[Jana]

You didn't. Did you fight?

[Nicole Byer]

We fought all the time.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

I wasn't trying to, like, it was a situationship that I was like, maybe it'll be a relationship one day. But I was not trying to actively involve him in, like, ingrain him into my life. So, like, when we would fight about me changing plans, I'd be like, okay, yeah. You won't even say you're my boyfriend.

[Jana]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't actually. Don't owe you shit.

[Nicole Byer]

Don't care that I'm not coming home on Tuesday, I'm coming home on Thursday now.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

But this boy I do want to, like, ingrain in my life and it is hard for me to remember. Oh, just include him. Just remember to tell him, shit.

[Jana]

Are you good at fighting? Are you good at arguing? And what I mean by that is, are you good with conflict? Like, does conf. Are you comfortable in conflict with him now?

[Nicole Byer]

I am, because I'm working on not thinking I'm the main character in everybody else's story. That's what I'm learning in therapy. So when he or anybody else comes to Me. And they're like, I'm feeling this type of way. I try really hard to not immediately go, oh, okay, so I'm a piece of shit, right?

[Jana]

I'm a piece of shit who should.

[Nicole Byer]

Walk into traffic and get hit by a Tesla. So instead, I'm like, I hear you. I just want to repeat back to you what you said. Um, and then try to not be defensive about it and offer, do you want to hear my side? If not, it doesn't matter, because I've made you feel this way and that I'm really sorry about.

[Jana]

Wow, that is very evolved.

[Nicole Byer]

It's really fun.

[Jana]

And I bet it's hard.

[Nicole Byer]

It's very, very hard.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Um, and then sometimes I'll do that and then have to bring it to therapy and be like. I mean. And she's like, no, no, it's you. You did bad. So, yeah, just. What you did was great, because what you did was not great. And I'm like, okay, that is so fucking awesome.

[Jana]

Thank you so much. Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

But, yeah, I tried to, because I was in a relationship with somebody for a long time where we did not fight well. Like, he would bring up a lot of past stuff, and I'd be like, but we're talking about this now.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

And then you'd be like, well, it's a pattern. And I'm like, okay, but can we just talk about what we're arguing about right now? And anytime I brought up something from the past, he'd be like, we're talking about the now. And I'm like, well, what is it?

[Jana]

Is it a track record or is it today? You know, I have been recommended by my therapist. A book about a book by two. I think they're two Jewish elderly people. They're named the Gottmans.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, the Gottmans.

[Jana]

And they have. They have social media. I feel like since I started reading this book, I've been getting, like, Gottman's Instagram reels where they're talking about, like, you should kiss your. Kiss your partner for six seconds. That's. I've seen that. That's the Gottmans. After six seconds, you. You release the oxytocin, which is the commitment, the, like, orgasm chemical. Like, you know how when you have an orgasm, you feel connected to that person and you're like, holy shit, we're meant to be. Yes, that's oxytocin. That's a drug. That's not a real feeling. That's a chemical. You've been drugged.

[Nicole Byer]

So is that why they tell you not to fuck people early on to get to know them first.

[Jana]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

Well, you know, it'd be more beneficial if people said it that way.

[Jana]

You know, I think. Exactly. I think that we just. We. Nobody talks about, like, the. What hormones are happening in our bodies and why we feel certain feelings, but oxytocin is like an attachment feeling. It's like that attachment feeling.

[Nicole Byer]

But I do buy the 6 second thing.

[Jana]

I do too. I've tried it.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, do you count in your head?

[Jana]

Huh?

[Nicole Byer]

Does your boyfriend ever go, what are you doing?

[Jana]

Oh, I told him, I said no, we have to kiss for six seconds every day. That's like the rule. Oh, and we, we kiss. We have to kiss. This is my rule too. We have. We've been falling off the train with this one, but we kiss every night before we go to sleep. Open mouth kiss with tongue.

[Nicole Byer]

I don't know. For.

[Jana]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole Byer]

For whatever reason.

[Jana]

This is so nerdy.

[Nicole Byer]

Open mouth. It's not nerdy. But you said open mouth kiss. And for whatever reason, my brain just didn't go French kiss. My brain went to. You guys are just going.

[Jana]

Like in the movies. No, no, just, just, just a nice, like six seconds.

[Nicole Byer]

And I don't know why my brain did that. But yeah, that's.

[Jana]

No, it's a, it's a, it's a. It's a, like a time, a momentary little makeout that you do every night. If it evolves into something else, great. And if it doesn't, you, at least in one time during the day you had this romantic little moment.

[Nicole Byer]

I think that's nice. Yeah, it's kind of hot too. I also like holding hands during movies like that I find incredibly romantic because I'm like, it's so dark and nobody.

[Jana]

Knows what we're doing. I know a secret. When I was single for a long time, I have other friends who are single for a long time. I feel like, you know, when you're a single woman, you sort of like, align with other single women. It's just like the community. And one of my friends, Lauren Olson, she and I used to talk about how much we missed, like, not necessarily missing, like, being in a relationship, because that comes with a lot of drama sometimes. But, like, we just wanted to hold hands more than like, fucking somebody. It's like, I just want to hold somebody's hand.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah. And it's nice when you're like, I want to hold your hand. Fuck you sometimes. We also just, like, lay with you and watch.

[Jana]

I know, like, isn't the end all. Be all no, it is great, but.

[Nicole Byer]

It is very, very nice. But it's like when you find somebody who makes you feel like home. That's really nice.

[Jana]

It is so nice. It is so nice.

[Nicole Byer]

And somebody who doesn't mind that I wear giant sonic slippers.

[Jana]

Doesn't mind or actually likes. I don't know. I want to know. Do you like her sonic slippers?

[Nicole Byer]

Do you like my.

[Jana]

Sound like dippers?

[Nicole Byer]

He'll never see this. He's never go on Instagram or anything.

[Jana]

He's not. Does he not? He doesn't have an Instagram.

[Nicole Byer]

He has one, but he's never on it. I send him memes all the time.

[Jana]

And it's just filling up.

[Nicole Byer]

Yes. And what happens is we sit down next to each other and I go, excuse me, can you open up Instagram?

[Jana]

Excuse me.

[Nicole Byer]

And then he opens it up and I go, can you go to the messages I sent you? And he goes to the messages, and then he watches them, and then the ones he doesn't laugh. And I go, why did you not find that funny?

[Jana]

On a scale of 1 to 5, where was that one?

[Nicole Byer]

You know, sometimes you talk about yourself and you go, am I insufferable?

[Jana]

I actually kind of aim to be more insufferable. That's what I'm working on.

[Nicole Byer]

Really.

[Jana]

I am, too. I give too much space to other people, and I don't take enough for myself. And I. The other day, I. I think my boyfriend was like, am I. You know, am I annoying? And like, we've. We, like, we don't live together, so we. But we've been together for, like two years, but we see each other often, you know? And he's like, are you annoyed? Like, I keep coming over. And I was like, no. And I was like, are you annoyed by me? And he goes, no. And I was like, I'm going to work on that. I feel like I want to get to the point where I'm kind of annoying. You know, it's fun. Let's spice it up. Let's be annoying.

[Nicole Byer]

No, I don't think you want to be, like, violently annoying. There was one day I was violently annoying, and I was like, I can tell. I can tell.

[Jana]

I can tell. And it feels bad.

[Nicole Byer]

Gonna leave me. It's. Cause we went wine tasting during the day, and he drove.

[Jana]

Oh, no.

[Nicole Byer]

So he couldn't taste as much wine as me. And boy, oh, boy, did I lose my mind after the fifth glass of wine. Boy, oh, boy. And I was truly just, like, screaming.

[Jana]

Like, I'm having fun.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, God in a closed car. And he was like, well, can your fun be a little softer?

[Jana]

And I was like, no, no, it cannot.

[Nicole Byer]

Then he's like, you need a nap. And I was like, I've been annoying. I've been annoying. I've been sent to take a nap. But here's the thing. I did need a nap.

[Jana]

Yeah, he knew it was nap because.

[Nicole Byer]

I needed to be functional for dinner later. So it was like I needed. I needed that nap. Wait, Jana, do you have any advice for people who are single and looking? Hmm.

[Jana]

I do. I. I think you have to categorize your loneliness. I think that's what helped me. I was. I had friends who were sort of hung, like, horny. And there's an app for that. Yeah, you know, Field is a great app if you're just like, I am looking to fuck around. I wasn't feeling that when my. At the same time that some of my friends were sort of like, feeling like having a horny moment, I was like, I am. I'm looking for a. Like an actual challenge. Like, I'm looking for something more sort of instructive, I guess, or like, I'm looking. I'm. I. I feel like I had been single for so long that I was like, I want to look into myself. Like, there's something about a relationship where you have to do a lot of self work to make it work. You have to, like, really be willing to, like, look at your shit. And it's painful, but it's cool. Also, I like that kind of psychology or that, like, little psychological experiment. And so I categorized my need or desire in that moment as I want to date some. I want to date some people, and I want to have dates that are like, both weird and bad and good and maybe something meaningful comes of it. But, like, I'm not going to bank on that. And when I got back on the apps with that intention, also because I was writing a script and I was trying to write a rom com y scene and I couldn't think of anything. I couldn't invent, like a romance. I was really having a hard time writing flirtation.

[Nicole Byer]

So you're like, let me go out and do the research.

[Jana]

Let me go do some research. So I put myself back on the apps after years, since 2017, having zero. And I fucking tried to go on so many dates and nobody would reply to me on hinge. Nobody would respond. And the first person who reached out to me was Steve. And so I ended up taking a big swing with him. I invited him to Go to. After two weeks of sort of dating him and making out with him, I took him on a two week date or a weekend date to Palm Springs.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, so wait, you talked for two weeks or like, dated for two weeks and then you went on a weekend? After two weeks you went on a trip?

[Jana]

Yeah. I said wild. I know. I said, I'm gonna try something, doing something real wild and just see how it goes.

[Nicole Byer]

It works.

[Jana]

It worked. He wasn't a fucking freak. Or kind of was. In a good way.

[Nicole Byer]

In a good way. In a way that you like.

[Jana]

In what I like. And. But yeah, I think that, like. Like, that's my advice is sort of like, decide what you're wanting out of being lonely, if you're interested in dating or if you're interested in, like, being in a relationship. Exactly. What kind of experience are you looking for? Because there's an app for that. And also there are experiences that mirror that. Like, if you are genuinely feeling lonely and like, I don't have anybody to snuggle with that night or whatever, like, that is like. Like, is. Is there a friend. Is there a gay man that will do that with you? Is, you know, is there a friend that will do that with you?

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah.

[Jana]

And. Or field has relationship experience. You could get some cuddles in as a. As a thing people do that.

[Nicole Byer]

I like that advice to do something exciting or, like, out of the norm. I think the best advice that I've ever heard because my algorithm on Instagram got real wonky for a minute because I clicked on one lady talking about relationships, but essentially was like, you never have to wonder if someone actually likes you. If they like you, they'll let you know. And that could have saved me.

[Jana]

God, I know.

[Nicole Byer]

So much time.

[Jana]

Truly, truly.

[Nicole Byer]

I've literally dated people and gone as psychics to be like, does he like me?

[Jana]

I know. You know what, though? I feel like as a younger person, you hear that advice, but you don't fucking care. You sort of want to be. We were. I feel like we grew up in a time where it was totally acceptable to be delusional about whether somebody likes you or not or if they didn't like you. You were like, whatever, I'm gonna make him like me, or I'm gonna push through and just secretly pine for him.

[Nicole Byer]

She persisted.

[Jana]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

That's what Elizabeth Warren was talking about.

[Jana]

Exactly.

[Nicole Byer]

Her nickname's very funny to me. That Trump gave her Pocahontas.

[Jana]

Pocahontas.

[Nicole Byer]

Because she lied about being Native American boy.

[Jana]

And did she ever.

[Nicole Byer]

But here's the thing. A lot of us have lied. My aunt once said, because we're Indian, And I went, I'm native. She meant West Indian.

[Jana]

And you took it to the streets.

[Nicole Byer]

And said, sure did.

[Jana]

Look at me. I'm native.

[Nicole Byer]

Sure it did. I was like, maybe Cherokee. Don't know. Probably what the context clues are here.

[Jana]

West Indian.

[Nicole Byer]

I'm from the Caribbean for years.

[Jana]

I mean, it's a. It's a common American myth.

[Nicole Byer]

It's wild. Wait, Jana, I have a question. We've come to the end. Would you date me?

[Jana]

Of course. Yes. This is kind of a date, if there ever was one.

[Nicole Byer]

You know what? It kind of was. Oh, my God. All my episodes are kind of dates.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Have you thought of this, Mars?

[Jana]

Oh, yeah. I've known podcasters who've met where, like, their first date was just like them guesting on each other's podcast.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, yeah, you did say that to me. I'm slow on the uptake.

[Jana]

We should go on dates.

[Nicole Byer]

Let's go on a date.

[Jana]

Let's do it. We don't even have to kiss. We can just go and, like, hold hands.

[Nicole Byer]

If we go somewhere without Marcie, I think she'll be really mad.

[Jana]

We can bring Marcy. It's a three. It's a threesome.

[Nicole Byer]

It's a threesome. Ew. Getting frisky. Whiskey. You ever say something and you're like, whoa, why did that come out of my mouth? It happens to me all the time. Wait, Janet, do you have anything you want to promote?

[Jana]

Yeah. My current promotional thing is my podcast that I co host with a comedian, another native comedian named Brian Bahi. It's called Sage Based Wisdom. And we just, like, give advice to callers, and it's often very bad advice. So fun. I'd love to have you as a guest. I would do it to give out.

[Nicole Byer]

Advice to people, but here's the thing. I did a podcast. It was like a comedy podcast where we took phone calls for people, and then I was giving, like, actual practical advice, and the host was like, oh, oh, no.

[Jana]

I give practical advice all the time.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay.

[Jana]

And also funny advice. So, yes.

[Nicole Byer]

All right, I'll do it.

[Jana]

Yes.

[Nicole Byer]

Okay. Well, that's it for this episode. If you liked it, the outros of this get worse and worse. Boom. If you liked it, you gotta give me stars.

[Jana]

It's law.

[Nicole Byer]

Give me stars. And if you write a nasty come on to come on me, what? If you write me something nasty, hitting on me to why won't you date me? Podcastmail.com. i will read it. Okay. Hello, Nicole and Mars. Because Mars, my producer, reads it. Sometimes me and my friends get crazy messages sent to us on FetLife. And this one in particular made me think of the letters people write into the show. I attached it so you could see the OG but what I did for you and would love if you read it on the show is the haiku I made it into because I thought of you when I wrote it. So the original is. Wow, you look amazing. Your body, that ass, them boobs. I wish I could play with. I wish I could play with you. My cock would be dripping pre cum and shoot come shortly.

[Jana]

I wish I could play with you, period. My cock.

[Nicole Byer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jana]

I was a teacher for.

[Nicole Byer]

Wow. I mean, there's absolutely no punctuation.

[Jana]

Yeah, I can tell.

[Nicole Byer]

Oh, my God. My cock would be dripping pre cum and shoot come shortly after. With you out.

[Jana]

Well, yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

Without you. Without you or me even touching my cock. Sorry if that was out of line. Just telling the truth. This is a white person who wrote this.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

White people love the word cock in a way that is upsetting.

[Jana]

Oh, boy. I know.

[Nicole Byer]

Like, suck my cock. And I'm like, whoa, dude, that was so aggressive.

[Jana]

I know. I'm like, you mean your. Your dick?

[Nicole Byer]

I'll suck your dick.

[Jana]

Yeah.

[Nicole Byer]

I'd rather someone be like, suck my penis than suck my cock.

[Jana]

A.

[Nicole Byer]

It's my. I hate that word.

[Jana]

This guy was like, I love your boobies. Want to play with them? Once I pre Come, then I will actually come after that. And then I will just spray it in the street.

[Nicole Byer]

Dripping with pre. Com. How much of a load are you shooting?

[Jana]

Yeah, gross. Also, it's like. Like that. That's the pre. Com.

[Nicole Byer]

And here's the thing. This isn't even done yet. Your body, that ass, them boobs. I wish I could play. My cock be dripping Pre come in, shootout.

[Jana]

Pre come in. What was the last one?

[Nicole Byer]

Pre come in, shootout. Without you or me. Touching. Just telling you truth.

[Jana]

So that's the haiku.

[Nicole Byer]

The haiku is just this original message where they just said, we'll take away more and add some punctuation. Well, that was delightful, love. That's it.

[Jana]

What a way to go out.

[Nicole Byer]

Goodbye. You've been listening to why Won't yout Date Me With Me? Nicole Byer. This show is produced and edited by Mars with executive producer Anya Kanefskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue with guest research by Lindsay Kemp. Our VP of content at Headgum is Katie Moose. And our thief music is arranged by Mike Comate. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. See you then. Okay, bye.

[Jana]

Bye. That was a Hitgum podcast. What's up, everybody?

[Ad Voice / Other Guest]

I'm Kyle Mooney. And what's up, everybody? I'm Beck Bella.

[Nicole Byer]

And Man.

[Ad Voice / Other Guest]

Ooh, we got something to tell you. Oh, yeah, we definitely do. Yes. It's a brand new podcast on Headgum. That's right. And it's called what's Our Podcast? Yep. And that's because we don't have a single idea what our podcast should be about. Yeah, we don't. So we actually have guests come on and they tell us what they think our podcast should be about, and then we try it. Yep. Guests like Marc Maron, Jack Black, Brittany Broski, Kate Berlant, Bobby Moynihan, Meg Stalter. And Tim Balls. Landon Axler, Joni McGreeves, and Dender. And Dender. New episodes release every Wednesday, so subscribe to what's our podcast on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms. Yeah, I'm gonna go do it right now.

[Ilana Hope Levinson]

Hi, I'm Ilana Hope Levinson.

[Ad Voice / Other Guest]

And I'm Dan o'.

[Nicole Byer]

Sullivan.

[Ilana Hope Levinson]

And this is the Outfit, the new podcast from Higher Ground. And Headgum.

[Ad Voice / Other Guest]

You know, we're two journalists who are slightly obsessed with the mob and organized.

[Jana]

Crime and other nefarious stuff like that.

[Ilana Hope Levinson]

Every. Every week, we're gonna bring you a story about a mobster. Some you've heard of, some you definitely haven't. But all of them are gonna help explain why America is like this.

[Nicole Byer]

See, the mob explains all sorts of.

[Jana]

Things, from milk expiration dates to why we got into Cuba to Las Vegas gay bars.

[Nicole Byer]

Who knew?

[Jana]

Who knew the mob's involved?

[Ilana Hope Levinson]

All that and more. Subscribe to the Outfit wherever you get your podcasts and watch video episodes on YouTube. New episodes every Thursday.