Looksmaxxing Is Psychotic (w/ Tan France)

Summary

Why Won’t You Date Me? with Nicole Byer

Episode: Looksmaxxing Is Psychotic (w/ Tan France)
Date: April 24, 2026
Main Theme:
A lively, honest dive into love, dating, identity, and self-acceptance with Tan France (Queer Eye), focusing on personal dating stories, the realities of being a minority in the dating world (especially in the UK and the US), how looks and self-presentation affect desirability, and a critique of extreme beauty trends like “looksmaxxing”.

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1. Overview of the Episode

This episode features Nicole Byer in conversation with Tan France, best known as Queer Eye’s style expert. The pair explore how growing up as visible minorities shaped their dating experiences, what it means to develop real self-worth, and how pop culture and internet trends like “looksmaxxing” are impacting people’s views of attractiveness and masculinity. They trade jaw-dropping dating stories, riff on the absurdity and pain of growing up feeling “undateable,” and dispense candid, hard-won advice for anyone struggling to find love or acceptance—emphasizing authenticity, kindness, and, sometimes, a little geographic strategy.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Navigating Love & Dating as a Minority (01:29 – 09:10)

• Tan’s Experience of Racism and Fetishization:
  Tan recounts a date in England where his partner said explicitly, “No one’s allowed to know that we’re on a date … we can do whatever … but no one can know I’m dating a Pakistani” (01:29). Both discuss being considered “second class citizens,” the trauma of being hidden, and the mental gymnastics minorities face in predominantly white dating pools.
• Reflection on Internalized Rejection:
  Tan admits, “I was mad at that version of me, but I said ‘yeah, I get it’ in the moment,” (44:41) highlighting how repeated exclusion can train you to accept the unacceptable—until you realize you deserve more.

B. Tan’s Love Story & Marriage (03:32 – 09:10)

• How Tan Met His Husband:
  Met online in 2008 for “what I thought was just gonna be a hookup,” but quickly became “the person I wanted to marry” (03:34–05:19). They confessed love within weeks, moved in soon after, and married a year later.
• Long-Distance & Moving for Love:
  Tan shares how his transatlantic relationship accelerated moving in together: “He lived in America, I lived in England ... I just came here for a few weeks, then it turned into months,” (05:37–06:07).

C. Fashion Industry Secrets & Mormon Clothing Line (06:08 – 13:47)

• Tan’s Entrepreneurial Pivot in Utah:
  Shares the origins of his modest fashion brand for Mormon women in Utah, and how it ended up selling at Nordstrom and Target—often unknowingly marketed to mainstream buyers (“Most of my money came from regular America, not the Mormons”).
• Industry Revelations:
  Explains “white label/private label” production: “Most major department stores have a bunch of brands you think are theirs … but they’re not—people like me make them” (10:35).

D. Path to Television & Representation (13:47 – 24:11)

• Accidental TV Stardom:
  Tan never intended to be on television: “I was only there as the background guy for these girls,” until a Bravo executive encouraged him to meet with Netflix for Queer Eye (15:10—17:13).
• Impact of Being Brown, Muslim, & Gay on TV:
  Discusses the rarity of his background on US television and the cultural/religious taboo of media participation for Muslims: “We’re not really allowed. It’s seen as a vanity thing” (15:10–16:46).
• Authenticity vs. Imitation:
  Tan purposely avoided watching the original Queer Eye: “If I watched the show, I’d try to act like that guy … I’m just going to be myself” (19:38–20:31).

E. Building Confidence & Self-Defense (21:45 – 24:13)

• Survival through Self-Knowledge:
  Tan articulates that resilience was a necessity: “Being Pakistani in an extremely white community, you learn very quickly to figure out who you are, stand for what you believe in, and fight” (21:56).
• American vs. British Social Dynamics:
  In America, Tan felt “so fucking nice—accidentally racist, but very friendly” versus the overt hostility in the UK (23:01–24:11).

F. Dating as a Late Bloomer & Relationship Patterns (29:43 – 36:48)

• Tan and Nicole reflect on being “late bloomers” due to race, body image, and orientation.
• Tan’s long-term pattern: “Started dating at 16, was with him until 21. At 21, started dating someone for a couple of years, then was single six months, then met my husband” (33:38).
• Insights on formative first relationships:
  “It didn’t make sense to try to grow with someone who was already grown ... so much life happening between 16 and 21” (34:14–35:24).

G. Wild & Awful Dating Stories (37:05 – 46:08)

• The Vomit Date:
  Tan describes a disastrous lunch with a hungover date who disappears to the bathroom; they’re asked to leave due to the mess (38:13–40:41).
• Peak Teenage Awkwardness:
  Both recount looking weird as teens and how this shaped their personalities: “You should be weird-looking as a teen … it helps you get a personality” (43:08–43:31).
• Explicit, hurtful racism:
  Again, the “second class citizen” quote, and being hidden by partners due to ethnicity—“He said, ‘no one can know I’m dating a Pakistani’” (44:25).

H. Accents, Exoticism, and the “Geographical Lottery” (47:55 – 50:08)

• Privileges of a British Accent in America:
  “In America, they just might like me for me ... or hate me for me, but not because I’m Pakistani,” discusses how accent can override other biases in perception.
• Conscious Self-Branding:
  “My parents never let us have a regional accent—said you’ll get more work if you’re just generic” (50:08).

I. Looksmaxxing, Modern Beauty Pressures, and Masculinity (57:42 – 63:41)

• Definition and Critique:
  Looksmaxxing: extreme body modifications for appearance, including breaking bones to “regrow stronger.” Tan: “It’s psychotic ... there are way less painful ways to do this. Chill out” (57:42–58:48).
• Toxic Masculinity Online:
  Tan: “They think breaking bones is more masculine than getting surgery—it’s the same shit, just more idiotic” (59:04).
• Worry for the Next Generation:
  Both worry about teens feeling compelled to look “hot” so young—“You shouldn’t need to look perfect to develop a personality. I’m worried” (62:43).
• Nicole’s observation:
  Reiterates the emptiness of prioritizing looks: “Looks fade ... if you put all your eggs in the looks basket, you’re gonna be so disappointed in midlife” (63:04).

J. Dating Advice & Final Thoughts (63:41 – 69:49)

• “Geography is important”:
  “If you’re struggling with dating, maybe that’s just not the place for you. Most people can work remotely—go somewhere else if love is important” (63:44).
• Practical Tips:
  • Don’t chase riches or brands; look for motivation and kindness.
  • Don’t fall for “negging”—“If he’s negging you now, he’ll neg you forever. Get the fuck out of that” (68:05).
  • Mutual effort and honesty: “If you like someone, just say so. Stop pretending the games work—bullshit!” (68:44).
• Nicole’s anecdote:
  On paying for dates: “We did a little back and forth … a nice way to do it, a mutual respect” (65:58–66:40).

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tan France on accidental TV stardom:

  “I wasn’t there to be on TV … I just wanted to make gay friends. I saw it as an excavation for friends. And, because I didn’t care, I nailed it.” (16:48)

• On surviving British racism:

  “You learn very quickly to figure out who you are, stand for what you believe in, and learn to figuratively and literally fight.” (21:56)

• On being hidden:

  “We can do whatever … but no one can know I’m dating a Pakistani. And I was like, huh.” (01:29)

• Nicole on growing up in white suburbia:

  “I was chubby, nobody really wanted this … I don’t know if you’re bringing a Black girl home to meet your middle class right-leaning family.” (31:47)

• Tan on fashion realities:

  “Most major department stores have a bunch of brands you think are theirs, but they’re not designing a single thing.” (10:35)

• On “looksmaxxing”:

  “It’s psychotic. Just get filler, Botox. Chill out.” (58:08)
  “You seem more of an idiot. I’d rather be seen as a more feminine guy than an idiot.” (59:24)

• Nicole on role of accent:

  “You’re brown, but then you open your mouth and people here go, ‘oh, not one of them.’” (48:32)

• On honest dating advice:

  “Don’t go for somebody just because you think they’re hot. That’s gonna go.” (64:09)
  “If he’s negging you now, he’s gonna neg you forever.” (68:11)
  “Stop pretending the games work—they’re absolute bullshit.” (68:44)

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4. Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:29] – Tan recalls being told to hide his identity on a date due to being Pakistani.
• [03:32] – How Tan met his husband, fell in love quickly, and navigated long-distance.
• [06:08] – Launching a Mormon fashion line in Utah.
• [10:35] – The secret world of “private label” fashion for department stores.
• [13:47] – Journey into TV and the expectations/limitations of being a minority in media.
• [21:56] – Developing resilience as a minority in the UK.
• [29:43] – Conversation about being late bloomers in love; dating while queer or “not the norm.”
• [38:13] – Tan’s “vomit date” horror story.
• [44:25] – “Second class citizen”: The pain of being someone's secret.
• [50:08] – Conversation about accent privilege and self-branding.
• [57:42] – Looksmaxxing explained and destroyed.
• [63:44] – Tan’s practical, hard-hitting dating advice.
• [68:05] – Relationship red flags 101: negging, honesty, and mutual respect.

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5. Podcast Tone & Chemistry

Nicole and Tan maintain a warm, candid, and irreverent tone, making space for both tough truths and lighthearted banter. They share trauma and laughter in equal measure, guiding listeners through the ugly and beautiful sides of seeking love when you don’t look or sound like everyone else around you.

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6. Tan France’s New Project (Honorable Gays)

[70:52]
Tan promotes his new YouTube comedy series “Honorable Gays,” where he and two friends judge “Am I The Asshole?” stories with sass and animated irreverence.

“I really want to play and be a dickhead and say ‘cunt’ and ‘fucking’ … so I created Honorable Gays.” (70:52)

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7. Closing Reflections

The conversation wraps with mutual respect and praise for Nicole’s interviewing style, underscoring how good podcasting is rooted in authentic listening and connection.

“You listen and respond … you don’t just move onto the next question. You do a really good job.” – Tan (74:02)

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For Listeners Who Missed This Episode

This episode is one of the rawest and funniest explorations of the pain, complexity, and joy of finding love as a minority in a world obsessed with looks—and the definitive takedown of “looksmaxxing” you didn’t know you needed. It offers great comfort, humor, and unfiltered advice for anyone who’s ever felt “not enough”—and plenty for anyone just trying to find where they fit in.

Transcript

[A]

Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode description.

[B]

This is a headgum podcast.

[A]

We talk a lot about messy dating stories on this show. But you know what's making dating even messier? Lawmakers across the country trying to strip away our access to sexual and reproductive health care. Planned Parenthood believes your body is your business and you deserve the freedom to make your own choices. Your whether you need birth control, sti testing, gender affirming care or an abortion, their health centers are there for you. But right now, politicians are actively attacking Planned Parenthood and trying to control our futures. Millions of people are at risk of losing essential care, especially those in black, Latino, rural and low income communities. Health care is a human right, which is why I'm so proud to support them. Here is a fun behind the scenes fact about the pod. I pay all my guests for coming on but but when they don't want to accept the money themselves, I asked where they'd like me to donate their fee instead. And Planned Parenthood is consistently the number one organization my guests choose to support. And together with people like you, me and the guests on this podcast, Planned Parenthood can fight every day to build the future we deserve. Supporters like you power this work. Donate to support Planned Parenthood now at Planned Parenthood.

[B]

I went on this date and I couldn't believe he had gone on a date with me. And very early on in the date he made it very clear that I was unworthy. And he said no joke. And I've had this a couple of times on dates. No one's allowed to know that we're on a date. I was like, huh. We can do whatever and I mean sexual stuff, but no one can know I'm dating a Pakistani. And I was like, huh. The rule back in the day in England was you could date a person of color, but you can't take them home to your family because as you said, your white middle class family cannot believe that their kid is being plowed by a second class citizen.

[A]

Second class citizen. I am blown away that this person said that out loud.

[B]

I've hit. I've being told this by two people I've dated.

[A]

And what do you say in the moment? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me?

[B]

Please tell me why.

[A]

Ooh, baby. Welcome to another episode of why Won't yout Date Me? A podcast for me. Nicole Byer was trying to figure out why I was so single. Even though you could Come on, an extension cord and tell me it was an apple charger. My guest today is an award winning personality, actor and producer who you know and love from his decade long run as the fashion expert on Queer Eye. He hosts a brand new comedy series, Honorable Gays, where he's judging the Internet's wildest moral dilemmas now on YouTube. I'm so excited he's here. It's Tan Friends.

[B]

Oh, my God. I can't match that energy. You've got so much wonderful energy. I'm like, it is the afternoon. I've not had coffee. You've got your energy drink. I don't.

[A]

Do you want one?

[B]

No, no, no. I've got water. I'm all right.

[A]

How did you meet your husband?

[B]

Online. So 19 years ago. Whatever 2008 was. Was that 19? 18 years. I don't keep track.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

2008. I was in Utah. Save your jokes, Internet. I was in Utah. Love Utah. Still live there. And I met somebody online who I thought was just gonna be a hookup.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On a website called Connection that does not exist anymore. Okay. Connection with an ex was.

[A]

They made their connection.

[B]

They said, got a package. They did it. They got the one and done. So I went on Connection, was not going to date and met this one man who was just wonder. And then a couple of dates in, I was like, ah, shit. I like this person. Which is the worst when you just want, you know when you don't want

[A]

a date, when you're like, I'm trying to slut it up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then you're like, oh, no, I think I'm gonna get locked down.

[B]

That was exactly it. For six months, I'm like, I'm gonna be on like a slut tour. And it didn't happen. I met this partner and on day five, he told me he loved me. And I said, no, no, no, that's way too soon. But internally, I was like, I love him too. But I didn't tell him. I know. I did say, look, it's very clear you're new to dating. Because he was very new to gay dating. And I was like, you're just new at this. You don't love me. You just like me a lot. And then about a month and a half later, I was like, yeah, I'll marry you.

[A]

A month and a half later.

[B]

We didn't get married a month and a half, but we did talk about marriage. I was like, yeah, I'd marry you. He was like, I'd marry you. We got Married a year later.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. What a whirlwind.

[B]

It was a whirlwind. But we did move in together three months later. And I know that's also insane, but when you know, you know.

[A]

Yes. When you know, you know you can't. Like. Yeah. Like, why fight it?

[B]

Why fight it?

[A]

Why?

[B]

I tried. I swear to God I tried.

[A]

You what?

[B]

I tried to fight it. I swear I tried to fight it. I was like, I'm not gonna get married at 25. I'm a child bride. That's never gonna happen. But it happened. But it happened and it worked.

[A]

I love that. So you moved in three months after dating.

[B]

I need you to know something, though. It wasn't just because I was. If I was living in England, that would make me kind of crazy to live with somebody. I just know for three months. He lived in America, I lived in England, and so I could come here for, like, up to six months at a time. So I just came here. And I wasn't gonna get a hotel for three to six months.

[A]

Yes, that makes sense.

[B]

So I lived. So I was gonna stay with him for a few weeks and then just turn it to months. I know that sounds crazy.

[A]

No, it doesn't. It sounds really sweet.

[B]

It was very romantic.

[A]

I really love that. Wait, you had a clothing line? I did, and it was in Utah, and it catered to the Mormon sensibilities.

[B]

Ding, ding, ding. It did.

[A]

How does one find that niche?

[B]

You know what? Okay, here's the thing. Do you own any businesses? A lot of entertainers have, like, a side hustle. No business. Okay. No, it's okay. So to be fair, it's always a fucking nightmare anyway. When I first moved to Utah, I was working in fashion in England. And my friends who I had met, most of them were Mormon people, which I didn't know what that was. When I first moved to Utah, I never heard the word outside of America. It wasn't Especially England. It wasn't really a thing. And so I came to Utah, and I really wanted to stay. And I'd met this guy who I was crazy about, and I needed a visa. And the best way to get a visa, or the easiest was to get a work visa. And there were no fashion brands. Obviously, it's Utah. But there was this one apparel company that made clothes for Mormon women. And I was like, okay, I'll work there. So I started working there. And then when they got sold, I was like, there's this massive audience here who just needs nice clothes. Why don't I make Them. And if you find a niche in business, you are gold. Like, it's really so hard to find. This was 20 2009. Even in 2009, everyone was doing everything. Like, you couldn't find a business that no one was really doing. But once mine had sold, this company had sold, there was nobody else doing it. It was like, why wouldn't I do this?

[A]

That's very smart.

[B]

I think so. And so that's how I made it. That's.

[A]

And what is the Mormon sensibility? It's a.

[B]

Okay. They wear what they call garments. So clothing under their clothing. It's their underwear. That's. It comes down close to the knee, and it's like a cap sleeve on the shoulder and then comes up to, like, here. Sorry. This is a podcast. If you're not watching this, you have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, like, my rib bone. What do you call that bone? Anyway, it's like your high chest. Yeah, high chest.

[A]

Yeah, high chest.

[B]

And so everything else, they can show their arms, they can show their legs. You can't show as much as you could if you weren't not Mormon. And so it was easy to create clothes for them, because at that time, 2010, the style was MIDI or maxi skirts or maxi dresses. And so I was like, I can do this easy. And so no one knew that it was Mormon clothing. I ended up selling most of my product to the likes of Nordstrom, Forever 21, Target. Like, they had no idea we were making clothes for Mormon women.

[A]

That's really interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it's like, you find the niche. You're like, I'm making it for these people. But then if everybody else wants it, they all can have it, too.

[B]

So I didn't really make money from the Mormons, who I adore. I made my mom my money from just regular America, thinking that they were just regular clothes for them.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I know. Wild.

[A]

And how do you. I don't really understand fashion.

[B]

Tell me about it.

[A]

So, like, I was.

[B]

No one should.

[A]

I was, like, bruising, you know, the Internet. And I was, like, reading about Halston and how he started designing and then Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's, or somebody was like, oh, we like your stuff. And then they put it in the store.

[B]

So how does.

[A]

How does that happen? How does.

[B]

Okay, gosh, this is so inside baseball. I don't really know what that term means. I'm not a sports person, but I think that this is what I'm about to do inside baseball. So what you do is you design a collection. You take it to what we call a trade show, and you showcase that collection. You've got one of everything, two of everything. And then buyers come round from major American retailers and say, if you make this, but put my label in it, I'll sell it in my store as a. Let's say this wasn't the case, but let's say, for example, you put it in your store as they used to have a brand called Gibson at Nordstrom, but that wasn't made by a company called Gibson. That is just made by some random company. And they just put in a label called Gibson. Because that's a Nordstrom brand. Yeah, that's how that works. That's wild. It's called white label or private label. And so you design a collection, it's not designed by Nordstrom. It's designed by somebody like me. And then they just buy thousands of it and ask you to put their label in it.

[A]

This is, like, blowing my mind.

[B]

Isn't that interesting?

[A]

That is really interesting.

[B]

So most major department stores have a bunch of brands that you think are theirs and they're owned by them, but they're not designing a single thing.

[A]

But they're just going to trade shows and picking out things that they think their designers will want.

[B]

Yeah. And then sometimes you'll do, like, an exclusive. So you'll say, okay, I've already sold this collection to, let's say, for example, a Target. But Nordstrom want it, but they don't want the same product as a Target. And so you'll say, well, I can do that, but I'll do it in a silk instead of a cotton, or I'll do that in blue instead of green. So they can only get that thing from your stores.

[A]

This is blowing me away.

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

It is crazy.

[B]

And I didn't know any of that until I moved to Utah and started working with this Mormon company. I'm like, oh, great, I can do my version of it. And what is so wild that I think is that all these Mormon girls were walking around not knowing that the product they were wearing was made by this gay Muslim man from England. Yeah.

[A]

You never know who's behind your clothing.

[B]

You just don't know. You just don't know who thought that up for you. But, yeah, it was me dressing Mormon women.

[A]

That is so wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you were in England, did you have aspirations to be on television?

[B]

No.

[A]

How did that come about?

[B]

Pakistani, like, that's insane. There were Pakistanis on TV that I literally had never, ever seen anything like it. And then it all happened very strangely. I was selling my businesses. I ended up having four. And one of my businesses, my last business was with an influencer, a very successful American influencer who had worn my product many times at, like, Fashion Week. And she was like, is there any chance you would help me launch my business? I don't know how to do what you do, but I'm. She was famous. She was Internet famous. And so I was like, yeah, sure. Started working together. And Bravo wanted to make a TV show, potentially about her and her sisters. They are like the Mormon Kardashians. There's four of them. They're all influenced. They are very entertaining. And actually, sorry, I'm telling a lie. It wasn't Bravo. It was just this manager who wanted to create the show, but we took it to Bravo, and so they wanted to do this sizzle reel. A sizzle reel. For those of you who don't know, it was like a trailer. And they said, but it's too white. There's only white people on the show. Because we were in Utah. And she was like, well, I do have a partner who's like, My 50, 50 partner. He's brown, he's Pakistani, he's British, he's Muslim, and he's queer. And they're like, the crowd checks all the boxes. We could have all that for one person, one fee. Like, yeah. And so she was like, but he doesn't want to be on the show. Can he just be, like, in the background when I'm at work? And I was like, yeah, fine. I definitely am not one for tv. I'm a businessman. And they were like, okay, we'll do that. So I went to these pitches. We pitched it at Bravo. We came here for, like, three days, met with every network that was available. And at that time, 10 years ago, there was still every network.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I went to every network. And then when we went for the Bravo meeting, the lady at Bravo. Did you ever work at Bravo? You only did Netflix, right?

[A]

Netflix. I don't think I've done anything for Bravo. No, I haven't.

[B]

There was this major buy, like the main person at Bravo who dealt with unscripted. She sat at this boardroom meeting with us. All these girls were there, and then me. And I only said a few things, but she said, listen, you girls are lovely, but a reality show will ruin your family. If you're willing to do that, take it. But it will. Like, you seem just happy and you don't need the money. You're all. They were very wealthy girls. You don't need the money. Like, you've got so much to lose. I'm dying, which is wild.

[A]

Your whole family will be ruined. But you know, if you want to.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

Who am I?

[B]

Ain't that true, though? Like, what, what reality do you. Especially about a family. Do you see? Like, they're all gonna make it. Like, you know that everyone's getting divorced. They're not gonna sleep. Like, you just know it. And so. But she turned to me and she was like, you haven't said a lot, but everything you've said, I've really enjoyed. I was like, oh, that's very nice. She said, I would put you on TV tomorrow. I was like, oh, lol. She was like, would you come back for a meeting? I was like, absolutely not. I'm not interested in being on tv. I'm only here to be the background guy for these girls. I was like, no, thank you, but that's so nice of you. Left the meeting. And then she contacted her friend at Netflix. Her name is Jen Levy, who I love very much.

[A]

I love Jen Levy.

[B]

Love Gen Levy. So Jen Levy had come from Bravo. This is a long word story. I'm really sorry. It's okay. So Jen Levy had just come from Bravo to head up unscripted at Netflix. And her first show was Queer Eye. And they'd been looking for the style guy in Queer Eye for months and had struggled. And so this buyer at Bravo said, I think I found your guy today. And she was like, okay, let's get him on tape. And I was like, I'm not going on tape. I'm not doing an audition. Will you just do a Skype with us? I was like, nope, not interested. I'm not an entertainer. Then finally they convinced me to do the Skype call that changed my life. And they said, will you be on this TV show? We've got a real life audition on Thursday. This was like on a Tuesday or Wednesday. And I was like, no. I had no interest. I wasn't like most people in our industry who wanted it. I'd never tried for it. And all I thought was, God, I feel physically sick at the thought being on camera. And my family was. We were raised so Muslim where we didn't do photos or videos. And the reason why back in the day, you didn't see many Muslims on TV is because we're not really allowed. That's not a thing that we're really allowed to do. I didn't know that it seen as a vanity thing. And so we wouldn't typically be on tv. And so it was just so beyond my wildest dreams. And so I thought, I'm not gonna go for this audition. They're never gonna have me on a show like that. I'm so not what the audience wants. Who wants a Pakistani, Muslim, gay guy interview? They just don't. And so I went for the audition thinking, never gonna get it. But I am looking for gay friends. Because I've been so busy with work. I only. I didn't have many gay friends.

[A]

I am dying at this.

[B]

Yes. I wasn't playing gays.

[A]

I don't care to do this, but maybe I'll make a friend.

[B]

Literally, that was it. I was like, I'm gonna. Because I'm a very social person. I'm like, if I go into this room of fortitude, I'm bound to come out with one or two friends. And so I saw it as an excavation for friends. And so. Because I didn't care, I nailed it. Yeah. Not to quote you, but yeah, nailed it.

[A]

But I do think people with aspirations of being on camera or, like, have to audition or whatever can borrow a little bit of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the way I go to auditions and this took a very long time to cultivate, I always go, I might not get it. It might not even be for a real reason. I just might not get it. But I do get to perform for, like, you know, 10 minutes today. And if I make someone laugh, maybe they'll, like, think of it later or maybe think of me for something else in the future. But, like, honestly, for this time, I'm just going to have a nice time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And usually when I care or not care, but when I try the least. Yes. I haven't. I haven't invested. Like, this is going to change my life. This is it. Like, it usually happens. Like, my meeting for Nailed it was very much. I kept being like, I think I could do that.

[B]

I don't know. Yeah.

[A]

I've never hosted before. Maybe we do it this way. I don't. And then I.

[B]

For a buyer, imagine if you were the buyer, you'd be like, I've seen everyone beg me today. And this bit comes in here, and that's like, I need to win her over. That would be fascinating.

[A]

Yes. But I have lost jobs because I

[B]

was a little too lackadaisical.

[A]

And they were like, does she care? And I was like, I do, but I don't actually know what you're asking for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I've just been responding with what you've been also.

[B]

I can. But I'm not desperate.

[A]

Yeah, I'm not desperate. No. Yeah, I would love to work, but like, I'm not going to beg. Yeah, that's not it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you make any friends at the audition?

[B]

I did. I'm upset with you because I didn't think I was going to get the show. So, you know what's absolutely fucking said? It's going to sound like absolute bullshit. The five people who ended up being the fab five were. Okay, the four, I guess, because I was one of them. So the other four were the people I became friends with and thought, oh, I made friends from this thing, thinking I wasn't gonna get the show. Cause they don't tell you there. And then if you could have got the show. There were just five people. Sorry, four people. That was like, oh, these people are the ones I wanna take away from this. There was one other person who was from a different category. But yeah, those five people, I'm like, yeah, I found friends here. And so when I move on from this and don't get the show, I'll keep in touch with these dudes.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

It just so happened to be the people who ended up on the show.

[A]

That's. I. What is that called? Kismet. Yeah, I love that. Did you watch the original show beforehand?

[B]

I'd never seen it.

[A]

I'm obsessed with you. No research, nothing. I said, I'm just gonna come in.

[B]

I swear to God, I just did not give a fuck. And I didn't think I was gonna get it. So I was like, well, also I didn't. I thought if I watched a show, then I'm gonna try and act like that guy. And obviously at that point I knew his name was Carson, but I was like, I'm gonna try and emulate that other guy. That seems weird. Cause that' we are such different people. He's one of the funniest. Did you ever watch that original? I've seen Carson on show since. He's so funny. And I was like, I'm not a comic. That's not my life. And so I thought, I'm just gonna be myself. And if they like it, they like it. If they don't, they don't. But I have watched the British one once since I watched an episode to see what did they do. And so I watched it before I started shooting Queer Eye. Cause I thought, I don't wanna be the American version, but I wanna know what the Brits do. And I just thought, I'm not doing that. It was really harsh. Really? I can't do that.

[A]

I.

[B]

The.

[A]

Okay. The original version of Queer Eye was so wild to me because there was so much homophobia.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes, because it'd be like, I don't know. I don't like queers. But I guess this one could dress me and I'd be like, I. I don't know. I would coach these people just a little bit. A little bit away from their biases to sound a little bit more inclusive. I won't say everybody on the show was like that, but there's like, a couple moments where you're like.

[B]

I mean, not to be fair, but not to be fair. This was like 30 years ago.

[A]

You are right.

[B]

Oh, my God. Very different. Oh, my God. But I thought that that would be the response we got, even if people were weird with us. Well, I think that this is probably not the way. Well, okay, I'm not going to speak the others at all. I think that I'm a little cuntier because I'm British than they were back in the day. So if somebody was like, I don't like homos, I'd say, bitch, who are you talking to? Like, I'm not that one. Like, you got. I would like to believe I'm very kind, but it's a choice I make. And if you want to say something repulsive, I can say something repulsive. I'm not just going to let it go. And so I think that there's a difference in how our show operated.

[A]

How are you? Have you always been secure in who you are? You seem very much like, I know exactly who I am, I know exactly what I want, and I'll figure out how to get it. Was this something you learned?

[B]

It was something I learned. Okay, listen, this is way too Debbie Downer to get into, but I'm just gonna say it and I'll try and breeze past it. Okay. Being a Pakistani person raised in England in an extremely white community, you learn very quickly to figure out who you are, stand for what you believe in, and learn to figuratively and literally fight. And so. And you learn that from a very young age. Very, very young age. I mean, the kind of town where they spray paint, like, get the fuck out of our country. Like, shit. And so. And that was from day one, is all I ever knew was hatred towards my people. Not everyone. There are amazing people in England. Fucking amazing people. But the most.

[A]

But the negative does stand out. And the negative that the most vocal stays with You?

[B]

Yeah. And so I learned from a really young age, you don't need to listen to that bullshit. Just figure out who you are and be that. And so that really taught me resilience. And then when I came to America and everyone was so fucking nice. Cause they couldn't figure out where I was from. They thought I was Mexican with a weird British accent.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Before Queer Eye, I got Hola almost every day. Almost every day. And my husband served a Mormon mission in Argentina, so he speaks perfect Spanish. So he would have to say to anyone who was speaking Spanish, he doesn't speak your language. He's not one of you guys. Or the racist would say, hola to be racist. He'd be like, no, I know I'm white. I speak Spanish. He's not one of you.

[A]

Just walking around Utah confusing people.

[B]

Confusing people. Everyone. And so when I got to Utah, everyone was so friendly. Accidentally racist, but very friendly. And so I didn't feel like I needed to be as cunty as I had to be in the uk.

[A]

Just, like, let your guard down a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, I get that. So it helped me really decide how I want to navigate myself in this world. Navigate this world. And so Queer Eye, the version of me that you see on tv, I think is a mashup of really shocking existence until I was in my early 20s. And then this weird dream existence in Utah, which means that I get to be nice, but also, don't fucking. Don't piss me off.

[A]

Yeah. Don't mess with me.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I like that. I like, you know, I can be kind until I don't need to be.

[B]

Yeah. Look, I did your show. I've seen you many times on. Oh, oh, red carpets, whatever. You're always so lovely. But I know for a fact that you could cut a bitch if you needed to.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

And I. I don't hate that about myself. I felt a lot of shame for a long time, thinking, gosh, I can be quite aggressive when I feel attacked. But now I just think, no, that's okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's absolutely okay.

[B]

You shouldn't attack me.

[A]

Yes, I fully agree. Sometimes I have to go, mm, don't hurt that person's feelings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause it'll be too easy. I can hurt your feelings if you come at me in a wild way.

[B]

Yeah. But I also think, well, you were looking for that fight. You thought because I was a prissy gay. Cause I know I'm the prissiest of gays, and especially when I had my high hair, people Were like my high hair. I can take that bitch down in a second. I'm like, okay, try

[A]

real quick. We gotta take a break. It's finally way day at Wayfair, which is basically the super bowl for people who love their homes but hate paying full price. From April 25th through the 27th, you can score the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with free shipping. On what? Everything. My personal style is very eclectic and lately I've been obsessed with getting creamy and making my own ice cream. I wanted to host a little ice cream social, so I went to Wayfair to find some new cute bowls and some matching kitchen decor. It was so quick and easy to narrow down exactly what worked for me using their filters. Plus I always look for the Wayfarer Verified badge. Their team of specialists vet everything by hand using a 10 point quality inspection so you know you're getting a quality piece no matter what your budget is. My new bowls have been a perfect way to elevate my creamy treats. What makes Wayfair different is the way they make the entire process seamless. They even have installation and assembly services available if you're doing bigger furniture upgrades. To away day is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything. Head to wayfarer.com April 25th through the 27th to shop Wayday. That's day w a Y-F a I R.com Wayfair every style every home Banks are honestly a headache. They're built for the 1%, not for the rest of us. It is ridiculous to get hit with random monthly fees or just have to pay for an ATM to access your own money. That's why Chime is changing the game. By offering the most rewarding fee free banking out there, Chime members can actually benefit from up to 1150 in annual rewards and fee free. When you use your Chime card, you get 5% cash back in a category you choose like gas or groceries. Plus your savings grows way faster with a 3.75% APY that is nine times higher than the national average. They even have premium travel perks like airport lounge access and 247 travel concierge. And if things get tight, you can get up to 500 of your pay with my pay or use Spot Me to overdraft up to 200 with zero fees. It feels like banking finally caught up to the rest of the world. It's simple, it's rewarding and it's one of those upgrades I really wish I'd made a long time ago. Chime is not just smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comdate me that is chime.com date me. It only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on the J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay spot me and travel perks go to chime.com disclosures this podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. You guys know I am a multi hyphenate, I'm a comedian, an authority, an urban farmer, and now even a creamer. When you're juggling a million things or even if you're just trying to get one single passion project off the ground, you need a way to stand out online without it becoming a second full time job. I have so many friends who use Squarespace for their businesses and they built these beautiful professional websites. You would honestly never know that they didn't hire a whole design team to do it. Squarespace is the all in one platform designed to help you do exactly that. Use their blueprint tool to build a professional site that fits your brand or just choose from their award winning templates. It's all drag and drop so you look like a pro even though you have no idea how to code. They also have everything you need to offer services and actually get paid. You can set up consultations, handle your appointments scheduling, send out professional invoices that match your brand. It streamlines all that admin stuff so you can focus on your actual craft. Go to squarespace space.com date me for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use Offer Code Date me to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain that is squarespace.com date me and use code date me for 10% off and we're back. Did you date a lot when you were in England? Are you a late bloomer or an early bloomer?

[B]

Okay, I'll, I'll, I'll phrase it this way. I was desperate to date from a very young age.

[A]

I identify with that.

[B]

Oh my God. When I was like 13 I was like get me a fucking boyfriend. So I started out Real early desperate. But I think because I was gay, dating wasn't as accessible. Like, are you queer? Are you straight?

[A]

You know, that's funny. Marge doesn't ask me that.

[B]

Oh, sorry, is that. Can I ask.

[A]

You can ask.

[B]

Okay, I.

[A]

This is so like, woo, woo. But I, I don't identify really as anything. I'm in a. I'm dating a nice man. Yeah, I've dated women. I don't seek out dating other genders besides men. So I don't claim to be queer or lgbtq. UIA plus because I'm not walking the walk. So I'm like, I don't want to take up space where maybe I'm not doing the work.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure, sure. This, it's obviously wrong to make an assumption, but I always assumed you were just fluid in whatever way I am. Okay, great.

[A]

Very fluid. Don't care, but never close a door because that's insane to me.

[B]

Great. Okay, good. Okay, I'm glad I assumed that.

[A]

Ah, munched a puss.

[B]

I have not. At school, straights would date because it was easier to ask another person out of the opposite gender, whereas asking a another guy would have been suicide in school for me. And so I didn't date until I was slightly older, but still 16. And that's relatively young, I think for straights. That's old to have your first, like, partner.

[A]

Maybe. Because I do feel like in middle school people were dating and I was like, how is this happening?

[B]

Everyone was dating in middle school. I just used to have to pretend that I was celibate because I was Muslim, but everyone was dating and I really wanted to date. Oh my God, I wanted to date. Also in England, I think that we just have sex. Sex much younger. So most people are having sex like 13, 14. So I was definitely the only virgin in my class.

[A]

Interesting. I feel I grew up, I was chubby, so nobody really wanted this. And I grew up in an all white neighborhood, so it was. Oh, you did? Okay, yeah.

[B]

California.

[A]

No, no, I grew up in New Jersey.

[B]

Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[A]

In Middletown, New Jersey.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I feel, I mean, I don't wanna speak for the people who I grew up with, but like, I don't know if you're bringing a black girl home to meet your, you know, middle class, right leaning family. So I was a late bloomer.

[B]

But yeah, like, what's your idea of late, though?

[A]

I didn't go on my first date until I was like in my 20s.

[B]

Okay, okay. That is a late bloomer. Yeah, late bloomer.

[A]

Okay. But like everyone else in high school was like, they were like fucking. And I was like, how, how is this happening? How are you doing it?

[B]

I know, I couldn'. Leave it same. And also I think I was scared of everything. I was scared of getting whatever. Because in England we really hit on the seds. Seds, like you've always got to use. It was just really hitting hard. I mean, I guess it was the 90s. It was.

[A]

Yeah, it was like dare.

[B]

And shortly after the AIDS epidemic. So it was.

[A]

I feel like here it was like abstinence, don't do it.

[B]

No, in Europe they're like, fuck it, whatever you want, but that's what it

[A]

should be everywhere you're gonna fuck anyway.

[B]

Yeah, it was just use protection. And so I was just. They really hit it hard. Like you've gotta use protection. You could get really sick. And especially if you're a queer person. And so that really scared me a lot. So for so many reasons I was like, I'll. As much as I want it, I'll wait a little bit. And then your initial question was, did I date a lot? I. In England we have a term which is how long's a piece of string? Which is how do you gauge that? It's all relative.

[A]

How long's a piece of string?

[B]

I would say I dated very little compared to most queer men, but it felt like a lot for me. I often had a partner, but they were very long term. So I started dating at 16. I was with him until I was 21.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Yeah, at 21. I started dating somebody for a couple of years and then I was single for six months, then met my husband. So not a lot, but I was always dating. But not a lot.

[A]

But not a lot. Just not a lot of people. But in relationship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dating someone from 16 to. You said 21.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's such a long time. And during like some real formative years, what was that like to grow up with somebody and having them as a partner?

[B]

Shit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I still love this guy. He's wonderful. But we were kids. I mean, he was three years older, so it felt like he was a grown up. But it felt weird to know that I was going through things that felt so old to him, like being. When again? Three years. Difference in your teens is a massive difference. So I was going through stuff and feelings that he had already moved past from. And also I wasn't his first boyfriend. I was like his fourth or fifth. Fifth boyfriend. And so I think the reason why, I mean, it was never gonna last. Anyway, it was my first boyfriend, but it didn't work because there was so much life happening between 16 and 21. And so it just wasn't conducive to being in a long term relationship. I think what would have made sense is to date him for a couple of years, move on to somebody else and learn to grow with somebody else as opposed to trying to grow with somebody who was already grown.

[A]

Who's already grown. That does make a lot of sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you go to college?

[B]

I did.

[A]

Were you in the same school or were you long distance?

[B]

So he moved to the city that I ended up going to college in and so we lived together.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah. So I didn't date in college. Anybody else? Yeah.

[A]

So you broke up with that person?

[B]

No. Oh, he broke up with me. Thank you so much for giving me that edit. I would love for you to give me the positive edit. He broke up with me, both my boyfriends before my husband definitely broke up with me. Yes.

[A]

So did you date in between partners or were you like. No. And then hopped in?

[B]

Not date. I slept around.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I did not date between parties. Yes. And I would have liked to have dated, but it just didn't turn into that. It was just, let's have a bit of fun.

[A]

So you've never been like taken out to dinner?

[B]

I have.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So. Okay.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

We ended. They were dinner and then.

[A]

And then.

[B]

Fun. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. Gosh, maybe I'm wrong. It has been over 20 years and my memory's not great. Maybe I did just do one night stands, but I don't remember doing a one night stand. Somebody's probably gonna comment saying, actually we slept together 1998. But I went on. I would go for dinners. I think I was too scared to just go to someone's house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wouldn't have had anyone at my house. I was way too chicken shit for the. And so I would go for dinner or lunch first, assess the situation and then. Do you wanna come back to mine or can I come back to yours? I have had a couple of shockers. I've had a couple of really bad dates.

[A]

Wanna tell me about em?

[B]

Sure do.

[A]

Okay, sure do.

[B]

I know that this person probably fucking hates me now that he sees me on TV because. So this person wanted to go out on a date. I'd met him online and. And I wasn't really that interested in going out on a date. He wasn't really my type. He was younger than me and I've never been into younger men ever. I've only ever dated older. This was the only time I've been on a date with somebody younger. I'm usually into, like, five years, probably closer to 10 years older than me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't have daddy issues, but I like a man who's got his shit together.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so I agree to this date. And. And I was probably 21, 22. He was only a couple years younger, but that was a big deal for me. And he wanted us to go out for dinner. I said, let's do lunch. Less committal. Yeah.

[A]

Don't ruin my night.

[B]

Yeah, That's a night I could spend in with cake. I don't need to ruin it with a bad day. And so we went out to this pub. It was in Manchester. Have you ever been toured in Manchester?

[A]

No, I've just been to London.

[B]

Okay. In Manchester, we have something called the Gay Village, and it's like our main hub for the queer in the north of England. So it's a whole long street full of gay bars, gay restaurants, and you are safe there. And so we went there. He turned up, and I could tell that something was off as soon as he sat at that table. I was like, you're looking peaky. And he was like, oh, no, I'm absolutely fine.

[A]

What do you mean by peaky?

[B]

Oh, peaky is like pale and ill.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But that's not how he looked on his pictures. And I just thought, this isn't just. You don't look like your pictures. Like, you seem six.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

And then it came out within the first few minutes that he was really hungover. Extremely hungover. And I thought, gosh, you knew two days ago that we were doing this date and you pushed for this. I didn't push for this. It was clear that you really wanted this date. And so I've met you and you're in this state. And he was like, just need to use the restroom real quick. Went to the restroom and had gone for about 15, 20 minutes. I thought, gosh, she said it diarrhea. Like, what is it? Whatever it is, I don't. I'm not. I don't want this again. I'm a very prissy gay, as the. These mean gays once called me on the Internet. I'm a. I'm a deodorant gay, which means that I'm a gay who likes deodorant and wants to smell of a fragrance, not my body odor. No judgment.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

It's so funny. But such a weird judgment.

[A]

It Is a weird judgment. It's like, I'm going to read you the house down. You want to smell good? Well. Well, yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I do.

[A]

And no judgment.

[B]

If you're into the mother stuff. Yeah, that's just not for me. And so he hadn't come back for a while. And then finally the barman. There were next to no people there. It was a pub, so we were having lunch at a pub. The barman came over and he was like, hey, when he gets back, you guys are gonna have to leave. And I was like, excuse me? He was like, he has puked all over that restroom and it's fucking destroyed. You guys are gonna have to go. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe they think that he's, like, with me and he's destroyed this bathroom. And I've never been asked to leave anywhere because of my decorum. And so I was like, hey, would you do me a favor? Would you let him know I'm gone? I need you to know this is a first date. I don't know this person. I'm going. And he was like, wait, are you serious? I was like, yeah, I'm going. And so I left and then I blocked him. And I have no idea what happened with this dude.

[A]

I've never been asked to leave because of my decor. I.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's wild.

[B]

It was a horrible.

[A]

That is truly wild. I don't understand how people up bathrooms like that.

[B]

How could you puke? So to be fair, I have once. Only once. It was in my own home.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I once puked so badly that I thought, sorry, this. Is this too much?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. I once thought I was very sad. I had the flu or something. This was many years ago. But I thought I was puking into the toilet, but somehow it sprayed in the most insane way that it did end up on the walls. I'm like, my face is. My mouth is directed towards. How did it end up there? So it can happen. Okay? It can happen. It's not a thing.

[A]

That never happened to me. That is wild to show up on a first date that hungover. That, like, cancel. Sick. Yes, absolutely. Don't see somebody like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why I love that you were like, actually, you can let him know

[B]

that I. Yeah, I. The thought of seeing him. How? Because I would have to be horrible and say, you turned up to this date so hungover and have embarrassed me. I live here. I'm here and I'm.

[A]

I might come back here.

[B]

And to be fair, I was at that pub a lot. It was my local. It was my local.

[A]

That is wild.

[B]

That's absolutely horrible. Then. Do you want one more?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was so me and my first boyfriend, we broke up a lot and we had a lot of breaks. They typically lasted about three or four weeks. And so I went on a date with somebody in my. So I was raised in a place called Yorkshire in a small town in Yorkshire. And then I moved to Manchester. So in Yorkshire, I went on a date with somebody and I should have known it wasn't gonna go well. I should have known not to date in my hometown.

[A]

Not to date in my hometown.

[B]

One shouldn't. If you're a minority, don't date in your hometown. And I went on this date and he was so cute. God, I was so attracted to him. He was from my work. And I had the biggest crush on him. And I couldn't believe he. I locked. Undateable. Definitely undateable. In my teens, I had to really grow into my ears, nose. I've got very large features and I still have very large features. I know that. I know. I know my issues. Leave me alone. I've come to terms with them.

[A]

You're stunning.

[B]

Look, I'm fine with my appearance, but younger, no one wanted it. And that was okay. That was okay.

[A]

I identify with that. I was very pimply y.

[B]

Every one of us. Well, actually, there are people who look gorgeous in their teens. I'm like, what? How? But I was one of those people. And I think it's a good thing. You should be weird looking as a teen.

[A]

I agree. It helps you get a personality.

[B]

It's the reason why we get to be on tv. We were not gorgeous kids. That's okay. And so I went on this date and I couldn't believe he had gone on a date with me. And very early on in the date, he made it very clear that I was unworthy. And he said, no joke. And I've had this a couple of times on duty dates. No one's allowed to know that we're on a date. I was like, huh? We can what? We can do whatever. And I mean sexual stuff, but no one can know I'm dating a Pakistani. And I was like, huh. And then I hid that a few times after you. The, the rule back in the day in England was you could date a person of color, but you can't take them home to your family because as you said, your white middle class family cannot believe that their kid is being plowed by a second class citizen.

[A]

Second class Citizen. I am blown away that this person said that out loud.

[B]

I've been told this by two people I've dated or been on dates with.

[A]

What do you say in the moment?

[B]

Do you know what? It's so stupid. And I hate that version of me, and I'm really angry at that version of me. Me. I said, yeah, I. I get it. I didn't go on. I didn't continue to go on dates.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I was like, yeah, no, because I. Because I did know. Yeah, I know. What do you say to that?

[A]

I. I honestly don't know what I would say.

[B]

So you just say, okay.

[A]

Yeah, in the moment. I think I would just say okay and then come to terms with it later because it is such a shocking thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That somebody's like, that's what I'm going to say to that person.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

I can date them, but they're not worthy of me. Sharing them with the world, like, that is so wild.

[B]

One of his parents worked where we all worked. It was a massive call center. And so we needed to make sure his dad never found out. And it wasn't cause he was gay, it wasn't cause he was dating. It was just.

[A]

It was just your ethnic.

[B]

That's. Yeah, yeah. I. You know, you need to see real England. It's not at all London in.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

And Pakistanis in particular. The. We are truly the untouchables.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so wild to me.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I guess. I mean, it's so silly for me to sit here and be like, I don't understand racism, but, like, I actually don't. Like, I don't. You know what I mean? It's like, why is this person deemed less than.

[B]

I know, I know. I do want to also add that there are wonderful people.

[A]

Yes, of course.

[B]

Lovely people in my house. They were just. Yeah. These. The ones that I dated. Just. Yeah. Well, the crazy thing is I actually know that he. That is how he had to behave.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because he wouldn't have been able to take me home.

[A]

Yes. But then it's also like, well, do I just, like, stay in the shadows or do I find somebody who, like, is proud to date me and will take me home and will shield me from what their parents have to say.

[B]

Then here's my real, real answer to that. And I've said this. I did a book tour and I've said this to every person I can tell. Sometimes if you're struggling with dating, maybe that's just not the place for you. And geography is important for somebody like me. Geography is important. I won the geographical lottery by being raised in. In the Western world, where I wasn't raised in Pakistan, in a village where life would have been much harder. So I was at least able to come out, potentially come out as a gay person and be able to stay alive because of that, or even. Or despite that. However, I knew that I was never going to be able to date happily, openly in England. But I knew that Americans didn't know what I am. And so I knew because I'd been coming here since 17. I'd come to New York every. Every opportunity I got. Every few months, I would come to New York and I'd watch the way these people treated me, and they didn't know. I just got to be a person. And I can't even tell you. This sounds so ludicrous. And I know this is way too much for a podcast, but what that does for a person's psyche is so insane. It gives you a confidence that you never dreamt possible, and it gives you hope that you never dreamt possible. And so I'd come to America, and they just. They might just like me for. For me, and they might just hate me for me, but they don't hate me because I'm Pakistani, British. They don't hate me because I'm Muslim. They don't hate me because I'm brown. I'm just exotic. Isn't that insane?

[A]

It is insane. And it. It is interesting because you were like, I come here and I get to feel better. And. And it's. I think it's because you have an accent.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Cause it's like, you're brown, but then you have an accent, and then you open your mouth and people here go, oh, not one of them.

[B]

If I were brown and I talked like this, you would not have this problem at all. Like, the problem is. Sorry, I'm allowed to do that. You can't. The problem is, is that they.

[A]

It really just threw me. I was like, whoa.

[B]

It came out of nowhere. I said, how we speak. Whereas as soon as I speak this way, it negates everything else. And they think, no matter what I thought of you, and this is the case with Idris, for example.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Idris wouldn't be Idris without this accent. That's just a fact.

[A]

It is. There's a lot of black actors who are English who I think are afforded more opportunities because they have that accent, and they're not seen as. As black Americans. It is really interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Ever since I've had a consciousness, I've seen and understood that privilege of having a British accent. And as I said, I won the geographical lottery. I got this accent naturally. Okay. A lot of people won't say naturally. I don't speak like a Yorkshire person. My parents were really particular about us not having a regional accent. It's easier to get work in England if you have just sort of generic accent. And so if we said something that sounded too Yorkshire. No, we don't say it that way. You say it this way. And so that gave me the luxury to be able to be appreciated by foreigners because they're like, yeah, he's brown, but he is British. I wouldn't be an entertainer, Nicole. I would not have gotten that Netflix job without this accent. I know for a fact.

[A]

That's really fucking interesting that your parents knew. It's like, I have to give my brown child a leg up where it's like. Like they're just English. I don't know where they grew up. I have no idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What kind of social inequalities they had growing up. I just know that they're English. That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. Because my parents knew, being from Yorkshire, this small town, people. If I ever wanted to move to a city, I wouldn't get a job because regional accents are not desir or used to not be desirable.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

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[B]

No. The reason why I remember that is because it was very painful. You know, it's a really weird feeling. So I stopped looking at DMs for a long time. But in the first year, when you first become.

[A]

I just want to say dating, you want to see what people are saying if they like you.

[B]

Yeah, I know that you can help it. But I couldn't help it. And so I scoured no one. And then I swear to God, this is true. Two years ago. Okay, maybe the dates are wrong, but the story is true. I cut my hair. Whatever the date was, I cut my hair. And I used to have this pump a bouffant. Yes. And then I changed it to this. I just wanted to change. I just didn't want. I just didn't want that. And so. And I was. I was going through a midlife crisis. I was about 10:40. I was like, let's change my life. Let's blow it up. And so, so I changed my hair. And then I did look at my DMs, and I got inappropriate DMs every day. And I was so confused. I even talked about it on my Instagram, saying, it's so weird that just because I changed my hair, I became all of a sudden sexual to you. Like, there was nasty shit in those DMs, and I just thought because of my hair, my hair made me seem frigid. Wild.

[A]

That is wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. You know what? I love it. I love it. You did a change. And then the men were like, well,

[B]

now I'm about to tell a story that's not mine. And I hope I'm gonna text this person after to make sure this is okay. Okay. Do you know a gay social media icon, in my opinion, Eric Sedeno. Do you know who this is?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay, so Eric Sedano is wonderful. And he's been a content creator for quite some time. He was like Forbes 30 under 30 for this year. Content creators like, wonderful kid. And this handsome Mexican boy. Gorgeous. He had a certain kind of hair. And Mustache. That has been his brand for years. He shaved it off, like, two weeks ago. And he knows what my change was, and I've told him, and he texted me to say, you know what? I. You are so fucking right. I shaved my mustache off. I changed my hair, and all of a sudden, this has never happened. My DMs are blown up with inappropriate messages. Who knew that a queer guy getting a haircut could do something to the queer community? It's wild.

[A]

That is wild. That's so funny.

[B]

Yeah, they just need it. So if you're struggling out there, dating, especially you gays, change your hair.

[A]

Change your hair. Shave your mustache.

[B]

Do.

[A]

Do something fun.

[B]

I had no idea that was the thing that got them going. Like, oh, he's willing to change. Ah, fuck him.

[A]

Interesting. I. Do you know what looks maxing is?

[B]

I don't. I don't. I can't stand it. And I want it to stop on my algorithm, but I don't know how to stop.

[A]

It finally got fed to me, and I was like, what? So, like, men are breaking their bones, so their bones grow back stronger.

[B]

They're doing everything to make themselves look good. And it's. I just think, isn't that just, like, the Hollywood glow up? Like, but you're calling. It looks like. But they're taking it to extreme lengths.

[A]

I was, like, reading up because I was like, I guess I gotta read up on it. Some people are doing meth to stay thin. And I said, but there's Ozempic.

[B]

It's not to stay. It's not just to stay thin. It's something else. It's something to do with the regrowth of your bones. It's one person in particular. I'm not even gonna say his name, but he's, like, the main guy. And I really want to say to him. Actually, I don't. I want to say to the people who are watching him, it's just a. Like, it's a glow. You don't need to do all this shit. You can get filler, Botox, like, do all that cosmetic surgery. You don't need to go to these lengths to look better. There are other way, less painful ways to do this. Chill out.

[A]

I agree. And there's, like, this air of, like, I break my bones. So it's masculine. And I'm like, I don't know. Why does everything have to be masculine or feminine?

[B]

The masculine shit's driving me.

[A]

Get the Botox. You're right. Like, just get the fillers. What are we doing?

[B]

Also, gosh, this is a. A shocking thing to say, but you think that just because you break your bones, you're less. You're less effeminate than the guy who gets cosmetic surgery. Like, it's the same shit, just a different way of doing it.

[A]

Yes. And honestly, I would say the less. Less precise way of doing it. Yeah, you're breaking your bones.

[B]

You seem more of an idiot. I'd rather be seen as a more feminine guy than a idiot.

[A]

I agree. Yeah, it's a little bit more femme,

[B]

but at least I don't seem psychotic, truly. But the worry is, is that these kids are looking at this. And I know a lot of these kids are like, whoa, that's what you do to get hot and. Yeah, masculine. Like, no way. No.

[A]

You go to a doctor's office and

[B]

you don't go to Home Depot to get a fucking hammer.

[A]

Fill me. Film me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know, it just feels. The world feels so chaotic in a way sometimes that I'm like. I don't know.

[B]

To be fair, though, not to this guy or his world, I didn't have social as a kid. Like, I wasn't there, wasn't. It wasn't a thing. And then when I hit my 20s, or very probably late teens, early 20s, Facebook became a thing. But it wasn't like it is now. I didn't know. No joke, Nicole. I swear to God. This is true. I know that America was a little different. You guys were a little more. The boys were a lot more into their looks, but in England, we were all goony fuckers. Like, no one was. No one had abs. Not ones that they weren't. They were just naturally skinny, so they might have had abs. They didn't have, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger bodies. No one had that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Whereas now my whole world has become. No one's a normal looking person.

[A]

No. Everyone looks crazy. Everyone truly looks wild in a way that I. I don't understand. And then, like, I feel like sometimes I'll see some teens with some self expression, but for the most part, I see teens because I have to drive by a school to get here. I see teens in, like, baggy jeans, Uggs, and a white baby tee, and there'll just be like a gang of all of them looking the same. And I'm like. I feel like when I was in school, yes, there was trends, but. But, like, people would do their own spin on the trends.

[B]

Yeah. Also, maybe this is different. I know. Well, all I have to go on is American television from when I was a kid. So maybe your world wasn't actually like this. But no one was hot in my high school. They were pretty girls, they were handsome dudes. But no, if you were to see any of them today, no one would say, whoa, hot. You'd be like, you are absolutely right. That's a normal looking person.

[A]

A normal good looking person who's just pretty cute.

[B]

Like, no one. You would never think you're gonna end up on a Calvin Klein billboard. Whereas I went to this meeting at my agency and it's one of these. They have this restaurant that's attached where the public can go to it. There are these teens from the local school that come here to be seen. It's become a hotspot. These girls were hot, like, shockingly hot. And they're probably 16, 17, and I've stood there thinking, you shouldn't be hot at your age.

[A]

I agree, I agree. Cause like, I would say the prettiest girl in my high school was like a little too tan and her hair was fried.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God. Always fried.

[A]

Just like flyaways everywhere.

[B]

Poke it straight.

[A]

Straight.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And he'd be like, okay, yeah, whatever. You're cute.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, like, the teens, they're like beautiful in a way that I'm like. But then I'm like, is that a problem? Yeah, like, did you do things like, are you. Do you have Botox at 17?

[B]

There's no way they actually look just. The world didn't. Just gorgeous.

[A]

There's no way. You're right.

[B]

There's no way. And also, they're all like. They've got these perfect Instagram parties. And I just think you shouldn't have that. Yuri, you need to not look gorgeous to develop a real personality. I'm worried. I'm not being hyperbolic. I've got kids and I would just think, please don't feel like you need to look perfect. You don't. You don't.

[A]

Well, I think the scariest part about somebody feeling like they need to look perfect from, like, 17 on is like, like, looks fade. So if you put all of your eggs in the looks basket, you're going to be so disappointed when you hit midlife.

[B]

Yeah. And you can't looks max at 50. Like, there's nothing you can do. There's only one person that's done it successfully in that share and like, out of the billions. Get the fuck out of here. You're not going to be that. And she looks lux. Maxed in a way that none of us can look. Maxed.

[A]

You're Absolutely right. Shares. Looks. Looks. Maxing so hard.

[B]

Hard. Yeah.

[A]

Dan, do you have any advice for single people?

[B]

I do. I'm gonna hit that geography point one more time. You are not. You are not required to be where you are if you're really struggling. You say. I hear this so often from people in LA and New York. It's really hard to date in LA or New York. Like, you don't have to be there. If dating is important to you and love life is important, you could be somewhere else and the world has become such where you can. Most of us can't work remotely. Go somewhere else. Don't go for somebody just because you think they're hot. Yeah, that's gonna go. And that might be so cliche, but let me tell you, when I first considered dating my husband, I thought, he's handsome. He's not typically my type. I went on a date and his personality was so beautiful to me that I just thought, I can see you being. Even if you don't want kids, but I can see you being the father of my children and feeling. Feeling confident that you will do a good job. See it as. Also, it doesn't matter what they do for work, as long as they have a good work ethic and they want to do well in what they do. I dated somebody who wasn't rich. I didn't need a rich man. Go for somebody who is motivated but doesn't have to buy you Chanel. If you want Chanel, buy your own fucking Chanel now also. Oh, gosh. Apparently I've got a lot of advice. Wow. When you first asked was like, I don't think I got anything. I don't know.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Don't expect them to pay. If this is a straight date, don't expect them to pay on the first date. But if you are the man, at least offer to pay on the first date. And I know that that might sound so archaic and it's not suggesting that the woman is less than. It's not suggesting that it's the 50s, but it's just a nice thing to. I just think it's a kind thing to. When I take girls out, I'm not a fucking misogynist. Most of my friends are female, but I want to pay for them. I just think it's my. I think my mom raised me to respect a woman and take her out. Even if it's just your friend, you're not trying to fuck it. Take her out and pay for her. And if she really throws down it's like, no, I want to pay. Let her. Fine, but at least offer.

[A]

See, I kind of agree with that. When I went out with the nice man in my life on our very first date, I was like, oh, do you want to split the wine that we just got? And he was like, no, I got it. And I was like, okay. And then he paid for it. And I was like, do you want to get another glass of wine? He was like, yes, I do. And I said, well, can I pay for this one?

[B]

I like that.

[A]

And then I paid for that one. And then he's like, do you want to do one more? And I was like, yes, I do. And he's like, well, I'll get that one.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

So we just, like, had a little back and forth.

[B]

I think it encourages a mutual respect.

[A]

A mutual respect. But then he was also like. It was just fun because it was like, oh, she wants to keep the night going. And then now I'm gonna tell her that I want to keep the night going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, yeah, that was. Yeah, it was, like, a nice way to do it.

[B]

Yeah, I like that a lot.

[A]

I agree. If you're. You're gonna take somebody out, take them out.

[B]

Yeah. Can I go?

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

So much.

[A]

I love it. I also love your shirt.

[B]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Thank you. Care about how you present yourself on that date. You never know what that date might become. You never know. I went into my date with my husband thinking it was going to be a hookup. He ended up being the father of my children. Like, make an effort is a sign of respect. And I've said it a thousand times on the show. It became a meme. But I do mean it. Like, make an effort for that person. They've gone out of their way to spend an evening with you. It's so much easier nowadays to just put on a TV show and stay at home and order in your fucking food. Like, they've come out to be with you. Show them some respect. Put some. I'm not saying wear a fucking ball gown, but put something on that.

[A]

Put some effort.

[B]

Yeah. Even if it's just a T shirt and a pair of jeans, if it's something that you like and you think, I like this outfit, I like the way I feel in this. Do that. Just put in an effort that makes you feel good about yourself. I'm gonna continue on, unfortunately. Who gives a fuck what car he's driving? I don't give a shit what car he's driving. Don't base your decision on, does he live in a nice building? Has he got a cool friend? Does he drive this Lambo? It doesn't matter. You could potentially grow into that. Just care about the fact that he's kind to you. He makes you feel good about yourself. Also, if he's negging you, bitch, get the fuck out of that.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I don't care that you think that that works. Get the. If he's negging you now, he's gonna neg you forever.

[A]

Get the fuck out of that. And it's gonna get worse.

[B]

Absolutely. Also, watch his eyes on that first date. If he's looking at other women, he's not for you.

[A]

Mm, that's good.

[B]

He's not for you. And don't play the game. The thing that I've always been firm on is ever since I started dating, if you wanna wait those three days to text me after that first date, that's a game I don't wanna be a part of. I don't wanna play it. I don't think it's fun. If you like me after the first date, tell me you like me.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

And I will do the same for you. I really enjoyed that date and I would like to see you again.

[A]

I fully agree on that one. The last couple people I've dated, I. They have not waited or I have not waited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm like, let's do this. Do you like me? Do you want to see me again? Let's. Let's get it on the books.

[B]

Yeah. And the worst thing they could say is, no, I didn't enjoy. I didn't enjoy you. But who gives a shit? You're not going to see that person anyway.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So who gives it one date?

[A]

It's. You don't have any. There's. There's no stakes in it yet. You don't know this person.

[B]

Yeah. I really do think that we need to be better at communicating. And I think we need to stop pretending that the games work and the absolute bullshit. And I'm saying this because I've had a lot of girlfriends who I love who will say I don't, but this is different. Like, God, we love. He didn't love her. Uh huh. And he won't love you soon too.

[A]

I mean, I think you're right. I think I really do think once a cheater, always a cheater.

[B]

Or at least if he cheated to

[A]

get with you, he'll just cheat to get the next thing he wants.

[B]

He might not. But the odds are stacked against You?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Don't take that risk.

[A]

I agree. Find somebody who wants just you.

[B]

Just you tan.

[A]

I think that was all really great advice.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Here's another question.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Would you date me?

[B]

Absolutely. I date. You're wonderful. Here's the thing. If a person can make me laugh, they're fucking gone. That I want them as my friend or my partner. If you can't make me laugh, get out my life.

[A]

I also really don't like being around people who don't make me laugh. I don't like people who frown and then find, like, the misery and everything.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not into a lot of negativity. I understand that times are hard sometimes, and that's okay. I'll help you through it. But that can't be a resting stage.

[A]

No, no, no. If you start low, have a peak, but then you get low again. I'm like, well, is this us?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dan, do you have anything you want to promote?

[B]

Yes, I do. Can I just go off? Okay. I have a new project that I'm so excited about, and I just want to say this. I wanted the audience to. It's been really lovely, but also difficult being on Queer Eye where you can't really be sassy.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I really just want to play and be a dickhead and say cunt and fucking. All those things that are so naturally me. And so I created a show called Honorable Gays. Three people. Me, Eric Sedano, Rob Anderson, who are Internet icons. And we three honorable gays take stories from Reddit, Am I the asshole? Stories. And we decide who really is the asshole in every situation. It's also animated, and I think it is so darn funny. And it's on YouTube now.

[A]

I love that. Can you give us, like, a little sneak peek?

[B]

Some of the stories?

[A]

Yeah. What's one of the stories?

[B]

Okay. Oh, God, we've got such good stories. There are eight episodes. We got three stories per episode. One of my. This will give you a taster. I love a wedding story. Any wedding drama, I always want to hear it. Because there's always weirdly wedding drama. And it's usually between the brides and bridesmaids. Or between the bridesmaids exclusively. One of my favorite ones that we do is there's a bride who's asking if she's the asshole because she asked one of her bridesmaids to not be in some of the pictures. All pictures. Because she was too robust and tall. And it was throwing off the vibe.

[A]

Yeah, you're the asshole. That's wild.

[B]

I won't tell you might not be a surprise who the asshole was in that situation.

[A]

That is so wild. Hey, do you mind spending money to wear a dress? Come to the location, Take time out of your schedule. Come to my bridal shower. And then I need you to step to the side because you're too fofum.

[B]

You too big. Because you're too big.

[A]

That's wild. Wild.

[B]

I know she pretended it wasn't because of that, but by everything she said because she mentions her build a lot, but yeah, she's pretending it's just because it wasn't really the right vibe. I'm like, uh huh.

[A]

I have not watched yet, but I cannot wait to watch it.

[B]

That is so fun. It's so fun. And these two are comics, so it's funny and it's ridiculous and the animation is just hilarious. I'm so proud of this.

[A]

Ugh, I love it. And it's honorable gays.

[B]

Honorable gays on YouTube.

[A]

And it's on YouTube. And. Okay, that's it.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Thank you so much, Dan, for being here.

[B]

Thanks for having me. I've enjoyed this so much. I need to say this for you. We had a lovely time on. Nailed it. But we didn't get to interact, really. And I. And I. I've listened to your podcast thinking, I don't know how this is gonna go because I don't have dating advice, but I've enjoyed this so much.

[A]

You had so much dating.

[B]

You are very, very good at this.

[A]

Oh, thank you so much.

[B]

A lot of podcasts aren't.

[A]

Well, I think I love love. I like genuinely love it so much

[B]

and I need to stop you. That's not it. You listen and you respond, oh, you are you. You may love love. And I love that you love love. And I fucking love love. Oh my God, I love a love story. But you weren't just in your notes like you actually listened to what I was saying. Do you know how rare that is for a podcaster?

[A]

That is. That is funny. I guess I haven't guessed it on very many podcasts where it wasn't another comedian. You know what? I am thinking of one podcast in particular that I guessed it on where I was like, oh, okay, you're truly just onto the next question. Oh, okay.

[B]

And you've stacked your day. And I'm one of six. And yeah, you didn't do that.

[A]

Just trying to get out of here.

[B]

I need you to know that I know how podcasts go. You usually bank some, but your guests shouldn't feel that no, it's fine. No, no, it's fine if. You know, because we're not stupid. We all know you've got a bank, but they shouldn't feel it. The reason why you're good at this is because you don't make a person feel it. You do a really good job. Sorry if that's condescending. I just need to.

[A]

It's not condescending. It's really not nice. Sometimes, I don't know, sometimes you undercut yourself and you're just like. Well, I. I love love. And I like doing this podcast, so that's why.

[B]

It's not that. So much more than that.

[A]

But I do like listening to people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes you learn something new.

[B]

Yeah. It's been nice. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

[A]

Dan, I gotta say this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I find you to be very genuine and very nice.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

And you have, like, a good spirit and aura.

[B]

Oh, thanks.

[A]

So you just. It's very calming. Like, you came in and you were like, I'm sorry for being late. But even that was calming. I was like, hmm, he's so sorry.

[B]

I was so. Do you know what? I literally. No joke. I'm not a crier. I cried on the way with my husband saying, I feel so fucking guilty. Cause I know Nicole, and it's such a disrespect to turn up 20 minutes late. But it was just. My last one ran so late and then the traffic was. We're in la. It's fucking insane. I was like. And I panicked. I get such weird anxiety when I'm gonna let someone down. I hate it.

[A]

Eh? You didn't let. This was delightful. Your shirt reminds me of this vintage brand. I think they still sell things, but it's called Quacker factory and everything they have.

[B]

So racist.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, what'd you call me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But everything they have is, like embroidered. It's like embroidered flowers and embroidered little animals. But I just.

[B]

I love anything embroidered. It's. It's one of the main crafts from South Asia. And so whenever I can get an embroidered thing, I'm like, I want that embroidered. Embroidered thing. This is also Indian.

[A]

It's really cute. I really like it.

[B]

Thanks, mate. I appreciate it.

[A]

Such a good color.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

If you like this episode of why won't you date me? You can like it, you can follow it, you can rate it 5 stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And if you write me something nasty, hitting on me to why won't you date me podcast, gmail.com. i'll read it. This person writes, not sure how to start this. So first of all, no question, Cole, you are a phenomenal comedian. Thank you. And person, thank you again. I would love to see you on Taskmaster UK as you would be wild and excellent. Anywho, onto the pure filth. First, I would wine and dine you at Guy Fieri's airport restaurant wearing matching flame shirts. And then we'd head back to my place where I would slowly strip you off, kissing your neck and working my way down your glorious body. When you're good and wet, I would then start kissing down on you and I would take my God damn time playing until you are so close. Then I'd pull out my rabbit to push you over the edge and just watch the waves of pleasure crash over you. What a treat. What a dream that would be for both of us. Thank you. Goodbye.

[B]

That was a Hitgum Podcast.

[A]

Hi, I am Mandy Moore. Sterling K. Brown. And I'm Chris Sullivan. And we host the podcast that Was Us now on Head Gum. Each episode we're gonna go into a deep dive from our show. This is Us. That's right.

[B]

We're gonna go episode by episode, pepper

[A]

in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors.

[B]

Are we going to cry? Yes, a little bit.

[A]

Are we going to laugh a lot. A whole lot.

[B]

That's what I'm hoping. Man.

[A]

Listen to.

[B]

That was us on your favorite podcast app. Or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify. New episodes every Tuesday.