Surviving Beergate & Escaping Trans-Chasers (w/ Dylan Mulvaney)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer

Episode: Surviving Beergate & Escaping Trans-Chasers (w/ Dylan Mulvaney)
Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Nicole Byer
Guest: Dylan Mulvaney

---

Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode, Nicole Byer sits down with Dylan Mulvaney — viral TikTok creator, actress, comedian, and author of the new memoir Paper Doll: Notes from a Late Bloomer. Together, they dive into navigating dating as a trans woman in the public eye, surviving the fallout of "Beergate," the complexities of queer and trans romance, the absurdity of online hate, and how humor and friendship are powerful tools for resilience. The conversation veers effortlessly between heartfelt, hilarious, and deeply insightful, giving listeners an honest look into Dylan's world and the broader social landscape around gender, dating, and fame.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Perils and Pitfalls of Rentable Fashion (02:46–04:17)

• Nicole and Dylan banter about the hazards of renting clothing from services like Nuuly; Dylan recounts her “Amish” dress malfunction, noting the sometimes well-worn state of rental pieces.
• Quote (Dylan): “Sometimes they send you the woman that came in the last outfit. I mean, I feel like they’re just delivering them with them at this point.” (03:21)

2. Musical Theater Roots and Why ‘Wicked’ is Sacred (04:07–05:29)

• Dylan discusses her lifelong love of musical theater, sparked at age 3 by ‘The Grinch Who Stole Christmas,’ and details her obsession with 'Wicked' — having seen it live 13 times and the movie six.
• Nicole admits she hasn't seen "Wicked", enjoying instead being out of the cultural loop.

3. Touring with Book of Mormon, Pandemic, and Gender Transitions (04:54–05:48)

• Dylan shares how being in the national tour of ‘Book of Mormon’ was a turning point, feeling at home performing nightly even in the “wrong body.” The pandemic pause catalyzed Dylan’s decision to begin medical transition.
• Quote (Dylan): “It’s either you bake bread or you transition.” (05:30)

4. Love, Sex, and Emotional Connections Abroad (05:52–06:45)

• Dylan reflects on being an “emotional lover” who avoids casual hookups in the U.S. and instead connects more while abroad – last pre-transition hookup being in Australia.

5. The Gay Cruise Experience and Gender Affirmation (06:59–08:02)

• Dylan headlined a gay cruise but left after four days, finding it healing that no one wanted to hook up with her — a gender-affirming experience amidst a sea of gay men.
• Quote (Dylan): “How gender-affirming to have the hot crowd of gay men... not even a sound being made... I was a ghost on that ship.” (07:45)

6. Transitional Dating: From Gay Men to Trans Women’s Realities (08:07–10:07)

• Both Nicole and Dylan swap stories about falling for gay men and the joys and challenges of post-transition dating—Dylan misses the rapport but acknowledges the changed dynamics.
• Nicole relishes the idea of negotiating fun couple activities her boyfriend is indifferent to, while Dylan is still in “fake lashes by dawn” mode.

7. Dream Partners and Dual Citizenship (10:58–12:00)

• Dylan jokingly lists her top dating criteria: not wanting to be murdered, a hot British passport, and ideally a penchant for musicals.
• She shares her favorite musical isn’t ‘Wicked’ but ‘The Color Purple’ (starring Cynthia Erivo), and how the show led to a post-breakup hookup.

8. Navigating Embarrassing Stereotypes, TERFs, and Transphobia (13:15–19:31)

• The conversation highlights the persistent stereotypes (e.g., infantilization), online hate, and defining moments like “Beergate” — a transphobic backlash Dylan experienced after partnering with a major beer brand.
• Quote (Dylan): “There was a trend to shoot at beer cans with a machine gun in my name. This one’s for you, Dylan Mulvaney.” (19:40)
• Dylan shares candidly about mental health struggles during this period, mentioning ayahuasca therapy in Peru as a turning point.

9. How Dylan Got Her Groove Back—Post-Beergate Healing (21:32–23:45)

• Post-controversy, Dylan reinvented herself as "the kissing bandit," reclaiming joy through flirtation and fun — especially at the Hollywood bar Davey Wayne’s.
• Discussion on the weird triumph of being widely hated—Nicole relates with her own viral Bahamas mishap.

10. Writing ‘Paper Doll’: Truth-Telling and Vulnerability (26:12–27:28)

• Dylan discusses the challenges of writing her book, balancing humor with deep honesty about sex, family, trauma, and resilience.
• Both she and Nicole joke about using life tragedies to get out of deadlines.

11. “Trans-Chasers” and the Minefield of Modern Dating (37:36–40:01)

• Dylan unpacks the reality of “chasers”—people who fetishize trans women—and the difficulty of sussing out genuine interest.
• She reflects on the “tricks” chasers use, the exhaustion of navigating dating apps, and the complexity of romantic preferences.

12. The Ideal Partner, and the Dilemma of Labels (54:02–55:14)

• Dylan and Nicole agree on knowing your worth in dating, and remaining open-hearted about love without boxing oneself in with rigid labels.
• Quote (Nicole): “Date anybody who sparks something in your soul... Someone who makes you feel really nice. You deserve to feel nice all the time.” (55:06)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Transitioning During the Pandemic:
  “It’s either you bake bread or you transition.” — Dylan (05:30)

• Cruise Epiphany:
  “How gender-affirming to have the hot crowd of gay men... not even a sound being made... I was a ghost on that ship.” — Dylan (07:45)

• On Surviving Beergate:
  “There was a trend to shoot at beer cans with a machine gun in my name. This one’s for you, Dylan Mulvaney.” — Dylan (19:40)

• Nicole on the Ironic Triumph of Being a Villain:
  “That’s iconic. I made so many people mad.” — Nicole (23:22)

• Dylan’s Type (Niche):
  “My type is a man that has long spider fingers that probably plays the piano, journals right when he wakes up, sips his little espresso, and when you open your eyes, he starts eating you out.” — Dylan (28:52)

• On Advice for the Lovelorn:
  “Know your worth. I’m only sleeping with and/or going on dates with people who are worth it.” — Dylan (54:02)

---

Fun Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• 00:00–01:47 – Ads and intro music.
• 01:57–02:46 – Nicole introduces Dylan Mulvaney.
• 04:07–04:54 – Dylan’s theater origin story; Nicole confesses never seeing 'Wicked.'
• 05:29–06:18 – Transitioning after Book of Mormon and the pandemic.
• 07:10–08:02 – Life-changing, lonely gay cruise experience.
• 13:15–15:27 – Far-right stereotypes and TERFs explained—Nicole and Dylan break down the myths.
• 19:04–21:14 – The fallout and recovery from “Beergate”; ayahuasca and self-reinvention.
• 26:12–27:01 – The struggle and delay in finishing her memoir.
• 37:36–39:12 – Spotting and dodging "trans chasers" in modern dating.
• 54:02–55:14 – Final advice for singles and the importance of emotional resonance.

---

Episode Tone & Dynamic

The conversation is unfiltered, quick-witted, vulnerable, and full of warmth; both Nicole and Dylan weave comedy and candor as they deconstruct the highs and hardships of queer dating, online fame, and identity. They balance serious insights with humor, and the chemistry between them makes for an engaging, thoughtful listen.

---

Additional Memorable Moments

• Dylan’s “royal” Irish romance adventure (44:59–48:14): Includes dance battles, secret royalty, and a storybook love affair in Dublin (“He reversed Aladdin’d you!”—Nicole, 48:26).
• Advice for single people (54:02): Embodies the episode’s spirit of self-worth and boundary-setting.
• The episode's closing banter: Nicole and Dylan joke about dating each other, swapping brow artist and bungee class horror stories, and shout out Dolly Parton’s surprise UCB visit.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of “Why Won't You Date Me?” is a must-listen for its honest, hilarious exploration of the complexities and joys of dating, especially as a trans woman in the social media spotlight. Dylan Mulvaney’s journey is inspiring, and her chemistry with Nicole Byer creates a space for vulnerability, resilience, and joy.

---

For more:

• Dylan’s book Paper Doll: Notes from a Late Bloomer is available now (61:34).
• Follow Dylan on social media (if TikTok still exists), and Nicole on all platforms for more laughs, wisdom, and behind-the-scenes stories.

---

Transcript

[A]

Love the podcast. You'll love seeing even more of it on video. Watch this full episode on YouTube. Just check the description for the link. Subscribe so you don't miss out. New video episodes drop every Friday.

[B]

This is a Headgum podcast.

[A]

If you've been thinking about upgrading your space, this is your sign baby. Macy's is having their big ticket sales event and it's the time to snag the cute comfy stuff you've been eyeing. And they have your whole home covered. We're Talking up to 60% off furniture, mattresses and rugs during their lowest prices of the season event. And that Radley five piece sectional it is just $2,179 right now and that's the kind of couch that you can have sleepovers on or fall asleep on while your date watches Lord of the rings for the 100th time. And you said not today Satan. I've been looking at new rugs too. Because listen, nothing pulls a room together like a rug that says yes, I'm grown, but I still have what fun. Macy's has them for 55 to 65 off. They've also got outdoor furniture up to 60 off, white glove delivery and great financing options. This sale is only running until September 15th, so don't sleep on it or do on your brand new mattress, which by the way is also 20 to 60% off. Hello Honk Shoe Honk Shoe Honk Shoe Shop the big ticket sales now@macy's.com or in store. Your home deserves it Quick time to choose a meal deal with McValue, the $5 McChicken meal deal, the $6 McDouble meal deal, or the new $7 Daily Double meal deal, each with its own small fries, drink and Four Piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's.

[B]

Price and participation may vary.

[A]

Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why. Ooh baby. Welcome to another episode of why Won't yout Damie? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, was trying to figure out why I was so single, even though you could come in a sheet and tell me they're sugarcane cookies. My guest today is an iconic actress, comedian and content creator known for her viral TikTok series Days of Girlhood. She was recently named to Forbes 30 under 30 list. Her new book, Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer is out. Now it's Dylan Mulvaney. Hey, did I fix it or Did I break it more?

[B]

You broke it actually more. Yes, everyone, for our listeners out there, I bought this thing off the TikTok shop called. Oh, what's this called?

[A]

It's a tag attacher.

[B]

It's a tag, but it's got a fun little name to it. It's like the snippy something. But it's the off brand one. I didn't get the good one. And my dress I got off Nuuly. Do you ever do those rental sites?

[A]

Yes, I do, Nuuly.

[B]

I usually love Nuuly, but you never know what. And this one's missing a button right at the boobs.

[A]

Yeah, sometimes they'll send you stuff that's been worn to a nub.

[B]

Well, sometimes they send you the woman that came in the last outfit. I mean, I feel like they, they're just delivering them with them at this point.

[A]

I can't believe I broke this more. Dylan, I'm very sorry.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

Oh, it's real broken.

[B]

It's like it got crazy somehow. But that's okay. I think that this offers a little bit of seduction in what is a very Amish looking dress.

[A]

It is a little Amish, but I'm into it.

[B]

Well, I, I tried the C thing for like a year or so and I wasn't very good at it.

[A]

What do you mean you weren't good at it?

[B]

I like. I mean, you can, you know, you can put me in like a little Mugler kind of bralette situation. I'm still a cringe musical theater girl at heart.

[A]

How'd you get into musical theater, honey?

[B]

I saw the Grinch who Stole Christmas at the old Globe Theater in San Diego when I was 3 years old and I said that's, that's what I'm going to do one day. And I did it. Can we talk about something? Why didn't you see Wicked yet?

[A]

Why didn't I see Wicked? I don't know. I'm in a run of seeing sequels and the second movie of Things.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think that's a more fun way to live. I also like to not be in on it.

[B]

But it's so good, honey. I've seen the play and I've seen the play 13 times and now I've seen the movie six.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

It's wild that you've seen the play more. I know the play's been out longer, but movies are easier to.

[B]

And I think I would do just about anything to get into a Broadway theater to see Wicked. The musical.

[A]

You can fly to New York?

[B]

Yeah, it's still there. It's still going in a few places, thank God.

[A]

Wait, so you were in the national tour of Book of Mormon?

[B]

I was.

[A]

For how long?

[B]

I was in it from 2019 up until the Pandemic. And we were playing at Los Angeles in the Ahmanson, and I thought, you know, I knew I was in the wrong body, but I was like, this is pretty good. Like, if this is how I have to do boyhood, then I'm down because I was in a big cast, tapping every single night and making people laugh. And that was the best feeling. And then I moved back down to San Diego with my dad, and I was like, okay, it's time to start my transition. Because there was nothing else to do, right?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Naturally, it's like, it's either you bake bread or you transition.

[A]

I chose to bake bread. Just kidding. No, but. No, no, no.

[B]

You did, didn't you? Did I nail it?

[A]

Because I didn't transition.

[B]

You only gave two options, and thank God.

[A]

But I didn't make any bread. So I guess I got a transition.

[B]

That's it. There we go.

[A]

Wait, so when you were on tour, were people horny? Did y' all fuck each other?

[B]

That's okay. I'm glad you brought something up. I did not have sex with one person as I was touring the country, and there were people in my cast that were doing it. I was never one for Grindr. I think that I. I'm a very emotional lover, and I get connected really fast. And I. I'm also notoriously, can only get laid when I'm outside of this country.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I remember I was doing Book of Mormon. We had three weeks off, and the last time I had sex in. In my previous body was in Australia on Christmas Eve. Down under. Down under. Honey, he was great.

[A]

Oh, no. Was he?

[B]

He was great. Think of him fondly.

[A]

Do you still talk to him?

[B]

God, no.

[A]

Okay, fair.

[B]

That was. I think that was the last Grindr hookup of them all. 2020.

[A]

2020.

[B]

Hot hat. Oh, no. It's 2019. 2019. Wow.

[A]

You stopped Grindr before the pandemic?

[B]

Yeah. Did you start recently?

[A]

I'm on Grindr now, currently. No.

[B]

And that's the transition.

[A]

I wish, but I don't think anybody wants me on Grindr.

[B]

I almost went. I was on a gay cruise last week, headlining a gay cruise, and I almost downloaded it because obviously we're in the. And Anything goes. Starring Patti LuPone.

[A]

Yes. Maritime Law. Starring me.

[B]

Right. But. And then I did think I was like, I could just maybe not put my face. And then I was like, well, I'm one of three women on this ship, let alone the one trans woman. So I'm pretty sure they could.

[A]

They'll suss it out.

[B]

They could get it figured out pretty quickly.

[A]

Wait, why were you on a gay cruise? And how long was this cruise?

[B]

It was. Well, it was supposed to be nine days. I made it four.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I headlined. I put a show together in three days. I got the call, and I whipped it out, and it was, I think, the most healing experience I've ever had because no one wanted to fuck me.

[A]

Why was that healing?

[B]

Because how gender affirming to have the hot crowd of gay men that are just going at it with each other, you know, not a sound being made other than that. And they didn't even. I was a ghost on that ship.

[A]

They were like, we don't want you.

[B]

We don't want you. And I said, thank you. You ever fall in love with a gay man?

[A]

All the time.

[B]

Same all the time. So tricky.

[A]

In high school, all of my male friends were gay men. Now most of my male friends are gay men.

[B]

And I think we always want what we can't have. And I didn't know how lucky I was before I transitioned to, like, get to experience, you know, someone that wants to talk about housewives after sex. And now I don't have that, unfortunately.

[A]

Yeah, but you can find a partner who wants to talk about housewives.

[B]

That's fair. But that lim. You know, that then other things go out the window that I might be looking for. Like, that's my only thing.

[A]

But, like, when you date somebody, I feel like the most fun part about dating is being like, hey, can we do this thing that you have no interest in, but you'll do it because you like me? Like, I'm seeing ghosts with my boyfriend tomorrow. He doesn't want to see ghost, but he knows I love ghosts. I'm seeing it in theaters.

[B]

It's a movie.

[A]

Are you kidding?

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Ghost.

[B]

Bitch, you did not see Wicked.

[A]

Yeah, but Ghost. Demi Moore, Patrick, Suez, Whoopi Girl, Burg.

[B]

An oldie but a goodie. I'm thinking, like, I like, what Marvel is this, you know?

[A]

No, no, not Marvel. No, I'm not bringing my boyfriend to a Marvel movie.

[B]

Well, God, I was going to say it was like. Was it really that much of a shift to try to get him to go see this show?

[A]

I mean, he doesn't really like Marvel So it would be okay?

[B]

It would be.

[A]

It would be.

[B]

Yes. Okay. Fair.

[A]

No. We're seeing the, I call it a romantic comedy, but apparently it's a thriller. We're seeing that tomorrow. He doesn't care about that, but he's gonna have a nice time. He's gonna smile and I'm gonna look at him and I'm just, I'm cry.

[B]

And be like, oh, my God.

[A]

And then we're gonna talk about it after. He doesn't want to do any of.

[B]

That, but he'll do. So I haven't reached that point in a relationship yet. Oh, I've still been in the I have to wear fake eyelashes and when you wake up, I've already put new ones on kind of situation.

[A]

Whoa. I've never tried that hard.

[B]

Oh, honey. You've never been a trans woman?

[A]

No.

[B]

It's rough out in these streets.

[A]

Well, I mean, I've slept in lashes.

[B]

I've slept in a wig, but not post sex.

[A]

What do you like?

[B]

Like, I've, I've. This is a perfect illusion. I, I, I mean, there is definitely, there's some mystery that I'd like to, to keep alive for a certain amount of time, but it never lasts that long.

[A]

I mean, if I'm just like, hooking up with somebody, a one night stand or whatever, I'm not taking the wig off. Well, I'm not, I don't have a wig right now, but, like, when I wear wigs, I'm not taking that off. I'm not taking the lashes off.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, like, if it's been a couple of dates and it's been like a couple of months, you get to see Nasty Nicole.

[B]

Ooh, I want to see Nasty Nicole.

[A]

I mean, it's not that different than this. It's just my skin isn't as clear as it is now, and I'm not as glowy.

[B]

You look beautiful.

[A]

Hey. Thank you. Wait, what are you looking for in a partner?

[B]

Well, I'm looking for someone who doesn't want to murder me. I'm looking, I think, for dual citizenship, so somebody that can provide a new passport. Oh, yes.

[A]

What country would you like to go to?

[B]

London.

[A]

London.

[B]

Get the London.

[A]

Is it because they already speak English?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[B]

And I just go up. You know, the trans rights are still. They're not great over there, but they've got theater. They do, they've got musicals. They've got Wicked.

[A]

They do.

[B]

They've got Wicked with British accents and they go to uni, not college.

[A]

You like Wicked.

[B]

Well, that's. I think at the end of the day, like, you know, I went viral online, but I'm just trying to do musicals. That's all I want. What musical would you be in, do you think?

[A]

Ooh, what musical would I be in? I really love Caroline. Or change. Let me talk to the oven.

[B]

Okay. That's a good pick. Wow.

[A]

It's a great musical.

[B]

Proud of you.

[A]

Thank you. I'm not a musical girly, but I do like. I like plays. I like live theater. So is Wicked your. Your top one?

[B]

It's not my top, actually. The Color Purple, but specifically starring Cynthia Erivo. I want that contingency because I did have sex with my ex boyfriend after we were already broken up, but we had tickets to it because it was that powerful. Was not supposed to have sex with him again. So.

[A]

Okay, you broke up.

[B]

We broke up.

[A]

But we have tickets to see the Color Purple. So you went and see the Color Purple. It was so moved that you were like.

[B]

We went back to his trundle and we.

[A]

His trundle?

[B]

Well, no, the one that f. What's the one that folds out of the wall?

[A]

Oh, a log. No, a log. Is that what I just said?

[B]

A. No, it's the.

[A]

It's a Murphy bed. A Murphy be.

[B]

Cynthia Erivo got me back in that fudgeing Murphy bed, and it was actually really sweet.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[B]

Two bottoms don't make a top, though.

[A]

No, they don't. No.

[B]

That's what's tricky for gay people.

[A]

Yeah, you got to find which key fits in the hole or what hole fits in the key.

[B]

Yeah, which hole fits in the hole.

[A]

But also, I think two bottoms could navigate it.

[B]

I.

[A]

Toys.

[B]

I don't. I don't want it. Figure it out.

[A]

You don't want toys?

[B]

I. I mean, I. I like. No, I can't be a trans person saying I like toys.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because, honey, they say we're trying to infantilize ourselves. And you know, they're. They're tricky out here. The far right.

[A]

Where have you been? Listen. Not listen to them. I find it to be very exhausting.

[B]

We cannot get this. Nicole. I'm not going to get used getting me to say I like toys. This is the end of Dylan Mulvaney.

[A]

Wait, I don't. Hold on. We have to take a break.

[B]

I am dressed like a Victorian child. I will say.

[A]

Quick time to choose a meal deal with McValue. The $5 McChicken meal deal, the $6 McDouble meal deal, or the new $7 Daily Double meal deal, each with its own small fries, drink and four piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's pricing.

[B]

Pretty anticipation may vary.

[A]

Audible's Romance Collection has something to satisfy.

[B]

Every side of you when it comes.

[A]

To what kind of romance you're into.

[B]

You don't have to choose just one.

[A]

Fancy a dalliance with a Duke or maybe a steamy billionaire.

[B]

You could find a book boyfriend in.

[A]

The city and another one tearing it.

[B]

Up on the hockey field.

[A]

And if nothing on this earth satisfies, you can always find love in another realm. Discover modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood, the latest romantasy series from Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros, plus Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander, and of course all the really steamy stuff. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30 day trial at audible.com wondery that's.

[B]

Audible.Com wondery this message is sponsored by Greenlight with Schoolout Summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free Greenlight trial [e-mail] wondery that's greenlight.com wondery and we're back.

[A]

You are dressed as a Victorian. Wait, the far right thinks trans people infantilize themselves?

[B]

Yes, we're indoctrinating their children. Yada yada yada.

[A]

I see. That's wild to me. I I've never tried to teach a child anything.

[B]

Oh my God. I only like 59 year old like people for sex. So I just think that that's the, that's the last thing that is on the trans agenda.

[A]

I just also think it's funny to call it a trans agenda. As if all the trans people got together and they're like all right here, here, meeting's in session.

[B]

No.

[A]

What is the notes.

[B]

We're never on time.

[A]

No.

[B]

So I just don't know when anything, when any of that of agenda would get finished, let alone start it.

[A]

Tell me about starting your girlhood series. What. What inspired that? Were you just like I don't know. I want to make some tiktoks.

[B]

I was doing standup in LA after Book of Mormon I started transitioning. I was using they. Them pronouns. And I found out that you could tell the same jokes instead of to like seven people in a backyard in Los Feliz, I could tell them to many more people on the Internet.

[A]

Ah, yes.

[B]

And you can relay a little bit.

[A]

I mean, the Internet is a very vast, deep thing that I don't even know where it is. Isn't it crazy? We're all on a thing that we don't know where it's at.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Where's the Internet? People are watching this on the Internet.

[B]

That's the craziest part.

[A]

You open up a computer and the Internet's inside. It's crazy.

[B]

I love it. So I was, you know, really trying to figure out how to come out on the Internet for a third time. Because, you know, I had come out as gay then I had come out as. As non binary. I just thought, we gotta wrap this up. M. So I. I made what I thought was going to be a funny video day one of being a girl.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And some people took it very seriously and it went very viral. And there was sort of 50, 50 split here. We had the women who liked what I was putting out there and then the ones that not so much, which I found out are called TERFs. I didn't know what that was.

[A]

And that's an acronym.

[B]

Trans exclusionary Radical Feminist. Wow.

[A]

I was gonna start with trees.

[B]

And they say I'm not an activist. I had no idea what it meant. That is so amazing. I feel really safe here. This is a turf free zone. Like, we don't even know what they are at the Head Gum Studio.

[A]

Here's the thing. I think TERFs and people who don't like trans people. I'm like, what did a trans person do to you?

[B]

You live on a gay cruise. Because none of them knew what a turf was either. Truly, we need to get you out there.

[A]

Next week I will go on a gay cruises.

[B]

I'd go with you.

[A]

I'm a liar. I'm not trying to get on a big ship to be in the middle of the ocean.

[B]

You don't fuck with that.

[A]

No, no. What if we get stuck there?

[B]

Good.

[A]

Then there was like, right before COVID or during COVID there was like a ship where there was like poop and shit.

[B]

I. Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

Well, the gay cruise.

[A]

Yeah, but that's. That's by choice.

[B]

That's different.

[A]

But I. Yeah, I just don't want to get stuck out there. That seems like a bad time.

[B]

Okay, that's fair.

[A]

And honestly, I Don't think my ancestors want to see that from me.

[B]

They don't want you on the boat.

[A]

On a big ship in the middle of the ocean that I chose to be on. I think my ancestors are like, nuh, girl, get back to dance.

[B]

Get you off that ship. And then so no turfs are on the water. And then I just kind of kept. Cause I hated seeing people be mad at me in my comments. I'm such a people pleaser that I started making more videos to be like, I have to show them other sides to myself. And then it just kind of was this happy accident. And some people really liked it, some people didn't. And I think then, you know, beer gate happened. You hear that? You might not know.

[A]

I know about beer gate. Beer gate was honey. And you just did a.

[B]

We don't. We don't say that word.

[A]

We don't say.

[B]

No, we, we, we, we bleep that part out.

[A]

Okay. Can you bleep with.

[B]

Thank you. Burp, burp, burp. Yes, I did that. That's part of the. The story that I tell in my book is a little bit of like, how Dylan got her groove back after.

[A]

I mean, that's tough.

[B]

That was rough, girl.

[A]

I simply can't imagine, like, the amount of people who were like, oh, I have an opinion. I can't imagine.

[B]

There is a trend to shoot at beer cans with a machine gun in my name. This one's for you, Dylan Mulvaney.

[A]

You know, scary, but on the other hand, funny. You're shooting beer. You're shooting cans of beer.

[B]

Good beer.

[A]

Good beer that you could. You could have been drunk and you could go to a bar and like, rant about trans people. You're gonna shoot it up?

[B]

Yeah, for me.

[A]

Wild.

[B]

For the girl in the Amish trash. Not great. Nicole.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I could imagine.

[B]

I would say that there was some suicidal ideation.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

There was some dissociation. There was some ayahuasca that was taken.

[A]

Oh, that's fun. Get high.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, honey, that was. I. Well, I'm a quick fix kind of person. And when this shit went, I was like, okay, this seems like it's going to last longer than a week. So I'm going to go down to Peru. I'm going to throw up. And for many times. And. And I. It fixed everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. Oh, but some of it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Would you ever go down there and do that?

[A]

Yeah, I'll do drugs anywhere. Yeah, I'm. I, I like having fun.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I really never say no to Like a new experience, because why not? Like, one of the most fun times I've ever had was taking mushrooms in Mexico and laughing at an ATM because I said, money's in there.

[B]

Who were you with?

[A]

I was with two of my best friends, Honk and. Oh, maybe we should bleep their names. Maybe they don't want.

[B]

Okay, I can bleep on mushrooms.

[A]

Yeah. Can you bleep that with Honk? Sure. Thank you.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

The best part is the honk will happen before, and then later, I'll go, can you believe that? When I.

[B]

And then they're like. And then it's like, oh, I get how this show works now. I like it.

[A]

We're just having fun. Hey, so, yeah, okay, so you go to Peru, you do a little ayahuasca.

[B]

I do the ayahuasca. You come back, I dye my hair blonde.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then I become the kissing bandit.

[A]

Ooh. What does that mean?

[B]

It means that I would go to a bar called Davey Waynes in Hollywood. I'd walk through a fake fridge, refrigerator door. You know, it's. And I would point at any random sort of Eastern European man to walk over, and he'd said, would you like to dance? And I would say, I would love to dance. And that was a chorus line reference. Thank you.

[A]

That was a. Oh, sorry.

[B]

Wow. Keep up. Keep up. And I would just make out with these men. They'd try to take me home. I'd say no, and I would get my fill. And then I would keep doing it over and over again until I kind of. It's still not fully out of my system.

[A]

No.

[B]

I love kissing.

[A]

Kissing's fun. Kissing's delightful.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Kissing's so, like, sensual and, like, nothing else has to happen. It's just sometimes it's really just fun to kiss.

[B]

I love it. I love kissing.

[A]

Wait, I do want to talk a little bit more about how you got your groove back, because I. I'm not, like, a overtly positive person, but I do see the, like, good side of things. And safety aside, that many people hating you, I think is kind of iconic. Like, I went to the Bahamas and talked about it on Kimmel, and then the whole island nation decided to band together to be so mean to me. I was getting the meanest comments about what they were like, it's your fault. One lady called me Peppa the pig slut, which is funny. But I just talked about all the things that went bad, and it wasn't the people there or, like. And then I said that there was ugly People at Atlantis. I just meant the white sunburnt. And I wasn't talking about mutt people.

[B]

But they came for you.

[A]

They really did. But then I was like, that's iconic. I made so many people mad.

[B]

It is like, I mean, we did something. You know, we did something. And I think, like, maybe I'll look back on it in a number of years and be like, wow, that was iconic. I think maybe the level of transphobia that's still existing, that potentially because of what happened is a little trickier. Yeah. But I think the fact that I'm still kicking, baby. That's pretty good.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

It's pretty good.

[A]

But also, it's like hatred that was not sent the right way, honey. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

It's like, I was. I was. I kept being like, did I just get canceled? Like, I. And then I was like, but I didn't do anything wrong.

[A]

You. I signed a deal memo, and you got paid to do an ad, and then people got mad at you as opposed to just. Or the beer.

[B]

Can we. Can we bleep that with. This is my favorite show.

[A]

It's like when someone cheats and they're mad at the girl instead of the dude. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

That is. Well, honestly, that is the most, like, woman thing to happen to me. Like, the way that they treated me was obviously how they would treat a woman. Let's just say if they actually saw me as a man, it would have went down very differently.

[A]

Yeah, of course it would have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is it? The Scarlet A. Did you feel like that? Did you feel like you had a scarlet A on you?

[B]

Oh, my. Well, and then I thought I had to be a bad girl. Like, that's where I was talking about, like, serving cunt. Like, I was like, well, I guess they can't be palatable anymore. Like, no more, you know, Audrey Hepburn, Mary Tyler Moore. And so I threw on my little, you know, Mugler sunglasses and a, you know, a little thong. And I tried really hard. I tried so hard, but it's just.

[A]

It's not, you know, it's not, you.

[B]

Know, fun for, like, the Brat, you know, going the Sweat tour. Like, love that. Did you go, oh, that was the best concert of my life. Did you go, no, See, we got.

[A]

Sadly, I didn't. And I did want to go because Brat was a great album. I listened to it on repeat for a very long time.

[B]

I've never danced harder in my life.

[A]

Oh, what a dream.

[B]

But then I think. I think there Are like. Like my favorite dolls. Like Alex Kinsani, Hunter Schaefer. Like, they serve cunt. I serve.

[A]

Like, hey, like, I think there's different versions of cunt. I think this is pretty cunty. Really? Yes.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

It's a look.

[B]

I think a look is country, Victorian, rich child.

[A]

Yes. You look like Samantha from the American Girl Dolls.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I loved Samantha.

[B]

I love.

[A]

She was so country with that little plaid dress.

[B]

That's actually really funny. I was. For my book tour, I was like, what if I dress up as different dolls? Like, and then. But then you realize most of their outfits are horrendous and very difficult to recreate.

[A]

Yeah. Kirsten wasn't serving kind.

[B]

No. She was serving poor Cynthia on Rugrats. Not well.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

High fashion in some ways.

[A]

Wait, tell me about writing your book. Was it hard?

[B]

Hardest thing I've ever done.

[A]

Yeah. I wrote a book. It's filled mostly with pictures.

[B]

Oh, good. I've got drawings in mine. Mine have doodles. And just in case, you know, if they're like. If they don't like the words, you got to give them something else.

[A]

Look at some doodles.

[B]

And I. Well, I already overshare so much online that if people are gonna pay $28 for this thing, it's gotta be good. So I talk about sex and relationships, my family, you know, recovering from beer gate, all of the above. And so I do think I made it worth it for them. But, honey, that was a hard. Right.

[A]

Yeah, it's tough. And then they give you a page count, and then you look at the bottom of Microsoft Word and you're like, I'm nowhere close to that page count.

[B]

Oh. And I think, like, I think I was maybe a year and a half late on my deadline.

[A]

Oh, that's pretty late.

[B]

I will say a beer gate scandal does help that situation. That maybe the one positive is me going, yeah, I think I'm gonna need a little more time on that book. But them realizing, like, they're like, oh, we just got a little more bang for our buck. Because they got all of that when they didn't know they were gone off.

[A]

Yeah. You used beer gate how? I used my parents death in high school. Well, my mom died when I was in high school. My dad died a little bit later. But, yeah, I bring it up still, I'll be like, my parents are dead, please.

[B]

So that it does help.

[A]

And people are like, I don't know what to say. I guess you can have more.

[B]

I know I just don't want to be. Ever be pity fucked for bringing down a beer company. Do you know why not? I don't be like, I think I need to find someone whose kink is like a polarizing trans woman who can't shut her fudgeing mouth.

[A]

I feel like it should be easy for you. They say find somebody.

[B]

Someone for everyone.

[A]

There is somebody for everybody. I what? Exactly. Okay, so you want somebody with dual citizenship.

[B]

I like taller, ideally.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Taller could be any gender. But I like masculinity.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I really. Oh, you know who I actually do really like? This is a niche one. Oh, do you know who Honk is?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, he is. He looks like. He kind of has like, spider fingers and probably journals in the morning. Oh, do you know, like, you know the men that look like they wake up at 5am like, kind of like refreshed, but also still tired, and then they have their tiny little espresso and then they journal and then maybe eat you out. Like that's what he's giving.

[A]

That's so niche. Yeah, that's so niche. Someone with spider fingers.

[B]

I did just realize we are. We cannot.

[A]

Teeny, tiniest name.

[B]

I just realized that's my friend. And I was like, oh, no, that'd be bad. Okay, so my type is a man that has long spider fingers that probably plays the piano journals. Right when he wakes up, sips his little espresso. And when you open your. Your. When you open your eyes, he starts eating you out.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And he's like, as soon as you.

[A]

Open your eyes, like, there's no. There's no time to say good morning. It's like, oh, it's sunny.

[B]

And like, it's like, no. And he goes. He sh.

[A]

Me.

[B]

Yeah. And then he puts on have I found you, flyless bird from Twilight.

[A]

I've never seen Twilight.

[B]

Oh, my. I walk off, Dylan.

[A]

I've never seen.

[B]

I literally walk off of a lot of things.

[A]

What's your favorite movie? Let's see if I've seen it.

[B]

Oh, Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

What the fuck?

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

What's your favorite movie?

[A]

Ghost.

[B]

Well, there we go. Guess we're equal.

[A]

Have you seen.

[B]

See you tomorrow night. I'm going on your Valentine's Day, bitch.

[A]

Please come Thruffle. Be at the Americana.

[B]

You ever been to a throuple situation?

[A]

I've never. No. Because that. That would. Until like having somebody and then meeting a third person. And it's been hard enough for me.

[B]

To find that one person. Funny story for me, huh? I often Feel like I can't find one. And then there's multiple come at one time and then it. And then I end up it up because I. I was trying to play the field.

[A]

Well. I've been propositioned before. I used to do meet and greets. Oh. After shows and stuff. I simply can't now. I'm just getting too old to like be friendly for an hour.

[B]

You're like, I can't make you laugh and hug you.

[A]

It just. It's a lot. And I've had people be like, oh, you must hate this. I'm like, no, I don't hate it. It's just draining. It's like an hour of stand up, an hour of meeting people and then I don't want anyone to have a bad time. And I'm not being disingenuous. I'm like genuinely happy to meet people. But then to do another hour after.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's like. And then another meet and greet. That's four hours of like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Giving it your all.

[B]

I have my. I have a feeling that the people I'm meeting on my book tour are not propositioning me for.

[A]

They might.

[B]

It's going to be. It's a lot of moms. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Moms get fudgeing. Freaky. You don't know.

[B]

That's fair. Okay, okay, I'm excited. I'm excited.

[A]

Now is your audience, your fan base? It's moms.

[B]

We've got moms. You've got a lot of Gen Z, honey. Oh, many, many. The. The young. The young people. I'm 28, I'm on that millennial cusp. And they. But they've taken me as their own. I've got some gay men out there, not a whole lot of Republicans. I think that's where we suffer a bit in the analytics. And you know, my social media manager says we gotta put some stuff out there to get those people over here.

[A]

What do you think you could put out to get people from the right on your side.

[B]

Boy Dragon. I don't know. I. No, actually. Oh. That would confuse them to the point where they actually might follow me because they think that I've detransitioned. But it's so meta because there was.

[A]

A person online who was like, who was, I think, parodying you.

[B]

Oh, honey.

[A]

And I was so confused for the.

[B]

Longest time, what's happening?

[A]

And then he was like, no, I'm not. I'm transitioning back to a man. And now I'm transitioning to be black.

[B]

And I was like, wait, we lost the Plot was like, sir, well. And then I also. It was really funny because this man did this for a really long time.

[A]

Long enough that I was like, I think he likes being in a dress.

[B]

And then. And then when he, like, dropped the big bomb, everyone's like, yeah, like, like. But in a way that did not, like, land. I think the way that I was like, honey, that must have been exhausting.

[A]

Exhausting.

[B]

Talk about. Commit to the bit.

[A]

But then I also, I was like, wow, the community, the allies, the gays, lgbtqia, what a nice community. Because everybody was like, oh, well, I mean, I guess if that's your truth.

[B]

And then. And then I remember, I think he was like, well, it was crazy how many people, like, supported me in the comments and were, like, trying to tell me that I was okay.

[A]

And it's like, yeah, yeah, because people are supportive.

[B]

Yeah. Like, can you believe it?

[A]

Feels wild. Feels wild.

[B]

We live in some crazy. And the Internet's only making it crazier.

[A]

The Internet.

[B]

That's why we have to write books.

[A]

Yes. Because the Internet. We don't know where she is, but she crazy.

[B]

Get this. I write in there. I was like, I hope the words.

[A]

I write in there.

[B]

I write in there. I write in there. I. With my hand, I said, I hope the words on this page last longer than the videos on my TikTok account. Then TikTok gets fucking deleted before the book comes out.

[A]

But for what, 24 hours, 23 hours.

[B]

Writing like Romeo and Juliet, being like, when this app inevitably leaves us in 100 hundred years. No, bitch, it left. And we might have 90 days if we're lucky. So I. And I was like, wow, this is either going to be like, like a nostalgia read where I reference Tick Tock multiple times, or people are going to be like, we don't know what that is. That's fine now.

[A]

That's very funny.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

What did you do when it was gone for a day?

[B]

Well, I made. I made one of those posts. The thank you so much. I got real earnest. And. Are you an earnest person?

[A]

Sometimes, but not on the Internet, because I don't know where. Where it is, so why be earnest on it? But no, I. I did not think Tick Tock was gonna forever be gone.

[B]

Oh, my God. It was like when somebody loved me. Everything was beautiful. I went Sarah McLaughlin, Toy Story 2 on that. And I made a video that was so pure hearted that I kind of can't watch it because it's so embarrassing. Like, and I have gotten a bit more cynical since Beergate Sure. But there was something still in me because I was like. And I actually. I was kind of excited because I was like that. Tik Tok's a lot to fuel the fire. They say you posting every day, putting more out there. That's. We. That's too much. It is.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

So I was kind of happy to have a little reprieve, find some Instagram reels, but I really think that, yeah, TikTok is gonna be around somehow.

[A]

I think so. She's strong. She's gonna keep on ticking and talking.

[B]

She's gonna. Do you like scrolling on there?

[A]

No. Oh, wow. No, TikTok doesn't give me the dopamine I want because. So my phone's not in dark mode. Is your phone in dark mode?

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

Your phone's just darker?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But, you know, how.

[B]

Do you want me to put it in dark mode? No, I will. You don't have to. I'm a submissive person.

[A]

Are you? So you're looking for, like, an aggressive top?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That was a wave for our listeners out there. To the camera down, they felt it.

[A]

They. They heard the wave. They were like, whoa, Augusta wind.

[B]

You don't get dopamine. Do you get dopamine from telling trans girls to put their phone on dark mode?

[A]

That's how I get my dopamine. No, I. My phone's in light mode, and Instagram is light. It's like, it has a white background and TikTok has, like, a black background, so it's not making me happy.

[B]

Oh, I go into a hole. I go in that hole and I stay there seven hours a night.

[A]

Seven hours.

[B]

Scrolling, scrolling. Love it.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've been trying to put my phone down at night and read.

[B]

Oh, that's good.

[A]

I'm reading Julia. Oh, God, what is her last name? Uncut Gems.

[B]

Oh, Julia Fox. Yes.

[A]

I'm reading her autobiography, Julia Now.

[B]

Uncut Gems.

[A]

Uncut Gems.

[B]

That was crazy.

[A]

I love her so much.

[B]

She's.

[A]

She's serving cunt all the time.

[B]

That is someone who is active that. She's a great time of cunt.

[A]

And her book is so fun.

[B]

It's.

[A]

She's.

[B]

I mean, I love the way that she lives her life. I'm actually very attracted to her. And this is the first time that's a podcast exclusive.

[A]

That's a woman that I would like out there.

[B]

Yeah. We follow each other, and maybe something will happen. Could you imagine?

[A]

That would be fun.

[B]

Be hot.

[A]

That would be, I think, a good.

[B]

Couple, I think so. It's. We. We got kind of that sugar and spice thing going on. It's kind of like, oh, you're sugar, she's spice.

[A]

I got it.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, it took me a hot second.

[A]

I was like, who's spicy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you date women?

[B]

Only briefly. And I would. I'm a little more specific, I think, when it comes to a woman, because I. I don't care about how I work with men or work with men when I go into a duel. But I am very thoughtful of, like, I wouldn't want to, like, go out with a woman if. If I didn't really think that there was some great chemistry there because I'm more mindful of their time.

[A]

That's honestly very, very funny. You're like, men, I actually don't give a shit if I waste your time. But a woman, I simply couldn't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I truly love that. What a dream.

[B]

And I do end up with some. You ever heard of what a chaser is?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. Trans chaser.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it's. And they've gotten smarter. They're trying to outsmart us, is what I'm trying to say.

[A]

Wait, what do you mean?

[B]

Like, I will be.

[A]

How do you know when someone's a chaser?

[B]

Well, girl, it's. I mean, I can. If I can get their Instagram page, I. And I've got four doll friends that have already liked the third photo. I'm. I can pretty much confirm what's going on here.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But some of them have gotten really smart. Like, I, I. They've won't always give me their. Their Instagram handles, so then I have to feel it out in other ways and. But one, I was at in the Edinburgh Fringe last year, and, oh, I was listening to Ricky Lindholm's interview with you, and she was over there. Love her. And I went home with the guy, and I kind of felt like Miranda in the. He kept sticking his butt up in my face. And then I was like, I don't want to do that. And then all of a sudden, it's, you know, my last girlfriend was trans, and I was like, funny how you left that out before we left the.

[A]

Bar, but I will say it. As long as you're not being fetishized.

[B]

So hard to tell these days.

[A]

It is hard to tell, but someone who loves trans women doesn't have any, like, ill will or, like, it's not like, scratching an itch. They're just like, that's what I'm attracted to. Do you find that to be bad.

[B]

I think that's a. That's a loaded one, Nicole.

[A]

It is kind of hard.

[B]

Nicole, that is a loaded question.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

And I, Dylan Mulvaney, do not. Not know how to answer it.

[A]

I. It is tough because it's the same thing. Well, not. It's not the same thing being fat. It's. Maybe it's the same thing being black. I don't know. Like, I'll ask people I date. I'm like, have you dated a black woman before? And if their eyes, like, gloss over and they're like, m. Oh, I love a Hershey kiss, then I'm like, eh, that's not for me. But they're like, oh, yeah, I've dated a couple, and it's, like, normal.

[B]

I. I almost would like a. Like, oh, yeah, I've dated one or two, but there seems to be a string of. Of offenses in their past. And I think often it, like, links back to something else that maybe they're going through. And I think, like, I just. Straight men are really interesting. Did you know that?

[A]

Straight men are a mystery to me?

[B]

I. The more I see of them, the less I get it. And it's tricky. It's. I'm not as fun as I thought it was gonna be.

[A]

Oh, you. You thought straight men were fun?

[B]

I don't. I don't know what I thought.

[A]

I would say 2% are fun. The rest of them, sick in the head.

[B]

No one's.

[A]

They not right.

[B]

No one's home.

[A]

They're not okay.

[B]

Like, don't know how to ask a question.

[A]

No. And I've had friends who've dated straight men where, like, we're all friends or whatever. And they'll be like, oh, I saw so and so. And I'm like, oh, how are they? And they're like, oh, I don't know. I'm like, but didn't you play video games with them, like, all night two nights ago? And it's like, yeah, but we were playing, so we didn't really talk. And I'm like, and some straight men do talk. Oh, my God. There's this Instagram video of this straight men talking. Yes, it's. They. I think it's called, like, Wild Wednesdays. I'm getting it wrong. But it's the. Like, a group of straight men who make videos updating their friends on their life, and then they send it to each other, and it's really cute.

[B]

That's really sweet.

[A]

And I was like, more straight men should do that healing. Talk to Your friends.

[B]

Talk to them.

[A]

Talk to anybody.

[B]

Look at us right now.

[A]

We're having a nice time.

[B]

We're fucking talking.

[A]

I dated this one guy who didn't have a friend in the world. He had maybe one friend.

[B]

What if he's watching?

[A]

I don't give a shit. Still got no friends on your.

[B]

That's my man. That's my man.

[A]

Now, not a friend. Maybe one, maybe half a friend. But he would tell me all of his thoughts, all of his feelings, and then all of his grievances with the relationship we were trying to have. I was like, you gotta get a friend or a therapist. If you can't get a free friend, you gotta pay a friend.

[B]

Pay a friend. I love paying friends.

[A]

I love my therapist. I know that bitch is one of my very good friends.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Quick time to choose a meal deal with McValue. The $5 McChicken meal deal, the $6 McDouble meal deal, or the new $7 Daily Double meal deal. Each with its own small fries, drinks and Four Piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's.

[B]

Price and participation may vary. If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know and love the thrill of a deal. But are you getting the deal and cash back? Rakuten shoppers, do they get the brands they love? Savings and cash back.

[A]

And you can get it too.

[B]

Start getting cash back at your favorite stores like Target, Sephora and even Expedia. Stack sales on top of cash back and feel what it's like to know you're maximizing the savings. It's easy and you get your cash.

[A]

Back sent to you through PayPal or check.

[B]

The idea is simple. Stores pay Rakuten for sending them shoppers and Rakuten shares the money with you as cash back. Download the free Rakuten app or go to rakuten.com to start saving today. It's the most rewarding way to shop. That's R a K u t e n rakuten.com. i'll even pay my real friends sometimes. Well, now I. Now I'm in a place where I can like bring some of my friends on trips or.

[A]

Oh, that's nice.

[B]

And yeah, but it's, it's, you know, you gotta keep up, you gotta keep their attention.

[A]

Did you and one of your friends go on a trip where you fucked the same person?

[B]

Oh, you know what? I think you're okay cause I fucked my neighbor that my best friend Lily also Was in a relationship with. But that was my neighbor. I don't know if we were. Okay. Was I on a trip?

[A]

No. No. I might've misread my notes from Lindsay, my assistant.

[B]

No, I'm interested. Because there is a world where I did have sex with someone the same time I had sex with her.

[A]

An older Irishman, while you were abroad.

[B]

Oh, honey, I. None of my friends. Better that man, because that was. That was mine. And. Oh, that was just the happiest romance of my life. I was backpacking through Europe. But by backpacking, I had three full giant suitcases, and I was. It was the year before senior year of college, and it was my last senior. Oh, Lily was on that trip with me until Ireland. Then I was there by myself. There we go. Hi, Lily. So then I went to a gay bar, and I was so fucked up from the Guinness Factory because everyone kept giving me their tickets for free drinks.

[A]

You been Ireland? They like to drink.

[B]

Oh, are you Irish at all?

[A]

Am I Irish? Yes.

[B]

I'm a Mulvani. We're from the North.

[A]

I'm of the Reds from the Shawshank Redemption.

[B]

I was picking up on that and Morgan Freeman. And then I saw. I got so fucked up. And then I bought. I spent all my money on a River Dance ticket, and I fell asleep. And then I googled gay bar. It. You know, that's what you do. And I show up and I infiltrated a bachelorette party at first, and then this. Really? There's always the hot group of guys, you know, in a club. And this one, I was, like, in little overalls, and. And he walked over. Oh, my God, this is so full circle. Are you ready?

[A]

What does this happen? I'm not in your head.

[B]

Oh, I have chills up my spine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I knew I liked you. So this man walks over, and he goes, are you in Wicked? And I go, what? And he goes, are you in the cast of Wicked? That's Tarin in Dublin. And I said, no. And he goes, but you're an actor, aren't you? And I said, yes. And he goes, american? And I was like, yes. How'd you know? And in that moment. And then he goes, are you ready? He goes, what are you doing, Tamara? And I go, I'm going to the Cliffs of More. And he goes, what if I take you? And. Oh, my God, my mom would have killed me if she knew that I was going to the clips of More with a random man that I just met in a gay bar. And it turned into, like, Seven Days of The best love affair I've ever had ended up being like semi, semi, semi distant royalty. Irish royalty.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Which in my head, Prince of England. Yeah. And then Ireland. Well, yeah, if they had. I don't think they have royals. They don't have royals anymore. They nix those. We can't have nice things. And then for a few days, we just hung out and it was like, so. Like, I thought we were just friends, you know, I'm not trying to force my twink self on this, man. You know, that's not for everyone. And then on the fourth day, I had. Oh, my God. Then we go back to the same gay bar, and I get into a dance battle with. It was like one of those drag queens being like, dance battle. And so it's me up there doing my cathedral Catholic dance team audition dance. That's the only dance I know. And I did not make the team. And I'm doing the dance. Nobody knows what I'm feeling inside. And then a member of the cast of Wicked is the other person dancing. And we're going back and forth, and I'm about to throw up because I wasn't used to dancing so often. I could really only do that one dance. And then this random girl comes in. She sweeps the competition. Neither me or the Wicked guy win. I go to the bathroom, puke. I come downstairs, and the Irish prince goes, can I kiss you? And I was like, now? And he was like, yeah, I just didn't know if you were into me, and I wanted to be patient with you. And I was like, honey, time's a ticking. And so we hook up. And then. Are you ready for this? Yes. It's the last day. 6. We've been going to little carnivals and on walks along the Seine. And not the sen. Hello? Help. Mom. Pick me up. And on the last day, I was like, pick me up. I'm in this park looking at deer, as you do in Dublin. Sure. And he picks me up with one of those cars that has the doors that go like Tesla. No. Oh, honey, God wouldn't be telling that story.

[A]

A Lamborghini.

[B]

Like wings on the wings of a prayer. And I'm like, like, what the fuck? Whose car is this? And he was like, my family's. And I'm like, who's your family? The. The kind of royals. And takes me to the nicest. The Beyonce restaurant, where Beyonce ate when she was in Dublin.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But she does. Yes. And. And buys the entire menu. $800 bottle of wine. Had been pretending to be poor the entire week until the last day.

[A]

He reversed Aladdin to you.

[B]

Reversed Aladdin?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it was. Can you imagine having sex with someone that you just found out is actually rich?

[A]

Yeah. That's lovely.

[B]

It was. I had already settled for what I was working with. Like, I was, I saw our life.

[A]

Wait, why?

[B]

And then I continue. Wow.

[A]

This man wined and dined you and took you all over.

[B]

I think it was the brother.

[A]

The brother.

[B]

I, I.

[A]

You met his family.

[B]

I've said too much. I don't know if there's any sort of Irish mafia or what. There is, but honey, I've, I've lived through a lot of things, including some crazy conservatives shooting at beer clowns. I am not going down because of the Irish royalty.

[A]

I just, I want this to work out. This seems so mad. How long ago was this, actually?

[B]

Okay, full circle circles you've drawn. That was about seven years ago. Okay, so then last year we did get dinner when he was in Los Angeles.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

And he is still single.

[A]

A gay man. Oh, I see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, you met him pre transition.

[B]

Yes, Queen.

[A]

I see. I. Okay, all right. But love conquers all.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I have a question.

[B]

Talk to me.

[A]

This might be a weird question.

[B]

I love you.

[A]

Do you ever, like, reminisce about the old Dylan?

[B]

Um, I think I reminisce about how unhated I was once upon a time.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Um, I was very fun. I was, I was a fun human, let me tell you that. But I think, no, I wouldn't trade it for the. I. I love being me now. I love, I'm so confident. I, I love my body. I love waking up and looking in the mirror and seeing who I want to see every day. Um, but I do miss dating gay men. That was, I had no idea how good I had it. And yeah, there is, I think maybe a bi king could be good. If anyone's out there.

[A]

Yes, I think that's what you need, a bi king.

[B]

Do you have anyone for me?

[A]

A bisexual king?

[B]

Really? Think about it. Ages, like 27 to like 69. Could live anywhere. I travel. I have a passport. For now.

[A]

You know, I actually might.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

I actually might. Yeah, I might have one.

[B]

Oh, that's all it takes. Famously, Shawn Mendes did tell me he knew two people. Oh, I can't say this. I can't say that. Well, I'm gonna tell you, but Sean, I was at like a large dinner party and I was sitting at Shawn Mendes and he was like, yeah, I know two guys that would Be like, great for you. And then never. Never. I'm still waiting to hear.

[A]

That's rude.

[B]

I'm waiting to hear back.

[A]

Well, maybe Shawn Mendes will be sitting at home watching this and going, oh, fuck, I forgot to send that text.

[B]

I forgot to. And. And he was the coolest guy. What a cool person.

[A]

Who's the most famous person you've met?

[B]

Oh, well, Lady Gaga is my friend.

[A]

What? How? What? How?

[B]

TikTok girl.

[A]

Oh, my God, that's so nice.

[B]

That's. I love when Internet, like, really, they bring us together, but I went to a dinner at her house, and last week. Or not last week, last year, and then we just hit it off and I love. She was my pop diva. Who's your pop diva? Mm.

[A]

Beyonce. I do love Lady Gaga.

[B]

Who. Who's the most famous person you've ever met?

[A]

Beyonce.

[B]

Really?

[A]

But, like, it was a very. It was at the MTV Movie or.

[B]

Video Awards, honey, we'll take whatever we can get.

[A]

When Lemonade came out and she just walked past me and I was like, oh, you're a treat. And she went, thank you, and touched my shoulder and I was like, wow, it was really nice.

[B]

Oh, that's like. Oh, can I say. I'll say it. Fucking. I. I couldn't. I couldn't come for a long time because, yeah, my estrogen was down. Oh, you've got some estrogen stuff too, don't you?

[A]

I think I have estrogen.

[B]

You've got estrogen. Can I have some? And no, I said that very scared.

[A]

I was like, I think I have.

[B]

Well, Ricky Lindholman, you were talking about some weird estrogen on the pod. I'm not crazy.

[A]

I have. I have more testosterone.

[B]

Oh, same girl. So. But I was really struggling to, like, you know, feel good downstairs. And it was Beyonce's exo. That was finally the thing that did it.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

Your love is bright as ever.

[A]

That's really nice.

[B]

She does that for the community.

[A]

I'm happy that Beyonce made you come. Yeah, maybe you do need to date a woman.

[B]

Fuck. That's.

[A]

I mean, if Beyonce is making you come all over the place.

[B]

Drove across town in the rain to come sit down here and find something out about myself. The Mysteries of Girlhood.

[A]

I got the sequel. You just gotta a lady. I don't know. Maybe that's. Maybe, maybe.

[B]

Maybe I gotta see Ghost.

[A]

Go see Ghost.

[B]

And maybe you have to see Wicked.

[A]

I won't.

[B]

I just.

[A]

I didn't see the Barbie movie. I didn't see Oppenheimer. I really Liked not being a part of the conversation.

[B]

Well. And you didn't know what a turf was. And so I think there are a few conversations that you are really a part of of. So thank you for being an ally. And I'm going to see ghosts for you, and you won't do the same for me.

[A]

I'll go see the play Wicked.

[B]

I'll go with you.

[A]

For whatever reason, I just don't want to see it.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

I could do it at home just for ar. We got Wicked at home.

[B]

There we go. Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, boy. Well, we do have to wrap it up. Do you have any advice for single people?

[B]

Oh, God, I. Am I your girl for advice for single people? I would say know your worth. And that's what I think. The one thing that's working in my favor, I'm only sleeping with and. Or going on dates with people who are worth it. And it's because I'm not looking elsewhere. I'm not. I'm not gonna. I'm not going back. I can't. Unless. I would for a gay. A gay man be great, but I don't think that's in the hearts anymore.

[A]

But it might be.

[B]

But then he's not gay. Then he's not gay.

[A]

What's a label?

[B]

Oh, you know what? Maybe.

[A]

What's a label?

[B]

Love is love. Why are we labeling Lin Manuel Miranda?

[A]

I refuse to label myself. I'll date.

[B]

So true.

[A]

Anybody. I don't close the door to anybody. I'm dating a man right now. But I mean, in the future, if I. If we. I don't continue dating. What a funny way to phrase that. I don't know if I'm single again. I don't. I'm never gonna close the door. I don't know who I'm gonna love.

[B]

That's so true.

[A]

Like, a body part's a body part. Like, I like it just.

[B]

Okay, your advice for me is to maybe date a woman or just date anyone.

[A]

Date anybody who sparks something in your soul. Do you know what I mean? Like someone who makes you feel really nice. You deserve to feel nice all the time.

[B]

Yeah, like Dolly Parton.

[A]

Yes, Dolly feels good all the time. Oh, I've met Dolly Parton.

[B]

Shut the fuck up. Yeah, that's vision board shit.

[A]

She came to a sketch show I was doing at ucb. No, she came in full Dolly.

[B]

Dolly has been to a UCB sketch show?

[A]

Yes. Yes, she has. She came to UCB Sunset, which doesn't exist anymore. She's wearing giant dolly Wig.

[B]

Who got her there.

[A]

Her titties were out. Her doctor's son was a writer on one of the teams. And she said that she had always wanted to see a show. So she picked that show to come to. And everyone came back. Or someone came backstage and like, dolly Parton's here. And we were all like, what? And I remember I did a sketch called Rhonda the Condom Keeper. I played a woman named Rhonda who had the key to the condom case. So she would ask you questions before you got your condoms. Cause she was nosy. And then Dolly came backstage to talk to all of us and tell us that, like, we were funny. And she was like, I'd buy a condom from you. And I went, okay. I never really starstruck, but I was like, I couldn't believe.

[B]

It's too much. What do you say to that?

[A]

I said, okay, okay, okay. She was so pretty. But we do have to wrap up because somebody else needs to hop into the studio.

[B]

That's hot.

[A]

Dylan, I have a query.

[B]

Query.

[A]

Would you date me?

[B]

I trust you in a way that I think I would. I. I.

[A]

Well, also, I love the question mark at the end. And you're faced at a point.

[B]

I'm nervous because I think you're be like, well, I would. Wouldn't with you? No. Would you date me?

[A]

Yes. I think you're delightful. Oh, really? And your eyebrows are a great shape.

[B]

Debbie at Studio City Brows.

[A]

Debbie.

[B]

I actually. I don't think she's even taking new clients. It's that crazy, really, but she gets it. Also, oh, we need to hook her up with someone. Also, I. You said I need to date a woman, and maybe it's you. Maybe it's a throttle on Valentine's Day. Ghost, the movie.

[A]

Maybe we're.

[B]

And then we go home and we rent Wicked.

[A]

You know what? Okay, I'll see Wicked. I'll come see. I'll. I'll see Wicked dancing through life. Dancing. That's all I know of that song. I like that you shouted out your brow, girl. I would also like to shout somebody out.

[B]

Yeah, give it to us.

[A]

It's called Air Bungee Fitness in Burbank. One of the worst places I've ever been in my whole life. I fucking hated it. I'll talk about it on another episode, too.

[B]

Were they jumping?

[A]

It's bungee. Like, Bungee Fitness. And the instructor was terrible. And then at one point, I asked a question, a clarifying question about the tension and the squatting and stuff. And then she looked around the classroom and she was like, and that's why it's important to not lie about your weight. And landed on me. And we made eye contact, and I was like, whoa, what? And my friend was there, and I looked at her because I was like, did I imagine that? And she went, no, that happened. And I was like, okay, we're Bungie Fitness and Burbank.

[B]

They're still doing that. Also, I love that when I was like, oh, we should shout someone out, I was like, my brow girl for beautiful brows. And you were like this at Bungee John Fitness, and that's why I think we would work well together.

[A]

And then I got into a fight with the owner or the manager who looked like she did her makeup in the dark. Bitch look busted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I told her I didn't have a nice time, and then she got real defensive, and I was like, why are you defensive? And she was like, I'm defending myself. And I was like, context, words. Defensive, defend, same.

[B]

You were the only person on a bungee cord that did not vote for Trump. I promise you that. There's not. There's. I don't think a lot of Democrats are on the bungees.

[A]

How do you know I didn't vote for Trump anyway? If you like this episode of what?

[B]

She's a fucking terf. Imagine you brought me on the show. I mean, I did say 95 things that I do regret. And then also, I was like, literally, like, this was all to plot my demise. Like. Like I wasn't created in a boardroom. You were actually created to bring me down.

[A]

Here's the thing. Bring me down. Get her. She's wicked. She's drowning. Bring me down. Da da da.

[B]

Shooting your cans.

[A]

If you like this episode of why won't you date me? Liking rating. Subscribe. If you write me something nasty to why won't you date me? Podcastmail.com, i'll read it. You got hit on me. Okay, this person writes, oh, baby, I'm gonna have you bouncing up and down on my dick like you were in a bouncy castle. Jump high enough and I'll come so hard, I'll shoot you into space. Like putting Mentos in a soda can. That seems violent. Yippee ki yay. Get ready to ride. Yippee ki yay.

[B]

Did someone email that to you?

[A]

Yeah, to why won't you date me? Podcastmail.com.

[B]

But what was that for? Is that a segment that you just did?

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's how I end it.

[B]

Oh, just.

[A]

Oh, we've come to the end.

[B]

This is it. And. And so it's not like a. It's just a statement that someone wrote.

[A]

Yes. And they can write whatever they want. I'm gonna start writing one man or person. I don't know their gender. They wanted to flip me upside down and fill me with clam chowder. And that haunts me.

[B]

That was me. What if it's not you trying to bring me down? It's me trying to fill you up with clam chowder. That's. It's getting fucking meta in here.

[A]

I would hate it so much.

[B]

I love clam chowder.

[A]

I don't. I don't like the consistency or the color of it.

[B]

I don't like vegetables. Oh. Or what about broccoli?

[A]

They look like little trees.

[B]

No.

[A]

Or fruit, but if you put ranch on them, it looks like snow.

[B]

Oh, that's pretty.

[A]

Yeah, That's a nice type.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

You don't like carrots?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

Crunch. Crunch.

[B]

No, no. Or no meat, no vegetables, Candy, pizza, Coke.

[A]

How are you thin?

[B]

I don't know. Now that should be the second book.

[A]

But then you'd have to figure out why you're thin.

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

And then who's going to figure it out?

[B]

I. I don't know, but I. Maybe it's us together.

[A]

Okay. And then I'll figure out why I'm fat. Kidding. I know why. I'll eat anything. Did you know you can't heat up rice again anyway? Why apparently you die. I don't know. Do you want to ask Dylan what you'd like to promote? Ah, shit. Dylan, I have a question. Query, if you will. Do you have anything you want to.

[B]

Promote at this time? I would say probably my book, Paper Doll. Yeah, that comes out on March 11 in stores and I think it's pretty good. And I talk about sex on there, on there, and in there and around it.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

And other things too.

[A]

We didn't talk trans people.

[B]

She doesn't know who t. What a turf is now.

[A]

I do.

[B]

So the. The least that your listeners now.

[A]

I do. Turf.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

TR. Trees are e. Enough.

[B]

I know F for us that ghost is not a Marvel movie.

[A]

No, it sure isn't. But, you know, what is the Scarlet Witch? I don't know. Oh, that's just a character that.

[B]

You know what? I'm going.

[A]

Oh, here we go in Endgame. That's a Marvel movie.

[B]

Are you sure?

[A]

Yeah. Endgame. Casey, do you know. Oh, we have to. We have to.

[B]

We gotta go.

[A]

I think somebody else has to be in this.

[B]

Read paper doll. Love ya.

[A]

Okay, we did it. See you later. Bye. Bye. Wait, did I ask the question? Do you need. Yes. You've been listening to why won't you date me with me? Nicole Byer. This show is is produced and edited by Mars with executive producer Anya Kanefskaya. It's engineered by Casey Donahue with guest research by Lindsay Kemp. Our VP of content at Headgum is Katie Moose. And our thief music is arranged by Mike Comate. Ah, thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. See you then. Okay, bye. Bye.

[B]

That was a Headgum podcast. What's up, everybody? I'm Kyle Mooney.

[A]

And what's up, everybody?

[B]

I'm Beck Bell.

[A]

And man. Ooh.

[B]

I got. We got something to tell you.

[A]

Oh, yeah, we definitely do. Yes.

[B]

It's a brand new podcast on Headgum.

[A]

That's right. And it's called what's our Podcast?

[B]

Yep. And that's because we don't have a single idea what our podcast should be about. Yeah, we don't.

[A]

So we actually have guests come on and they tell us what they think our podcast should be about and then we try it.

[B]

Yep. Guests like Mark Marin, Jack Black, Brittany.

[A]

Broski, Kate Berlan, Bobby Moynihan, Meg Stalter. And Tim Bolt.

[B]

Landon Axler, Joanie McGree. And Dender. And Dender.

[A]

New episodes release every Wednesday, so subscribe.

[B]

To what's Our Podcast? On YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms. Yeah, I'm gonna go do it right now. Hi, I'm Ilana Hope Levinson. And I'm Dan o'.

[A]

Sullivan.

[B]

And this is the outfit, the new podcast From Higher Ground and Headgum.

[A]

We're two journalists who are slightly obsessed with the mob and organized crime and other nefarious stuff like that. Every week we're going to bring you.

[B]

A story about a mobster. Some you've heard of, some you definitely haven't. But all of them are going to.

[A]

Help explain why America is like this. See, the mob explains all sorts of things, from milk expiration dates to why we got into Cuba to Las Vegas.

[B]

Gay bar who knew mobs involved. All that and more. Subscribe to the Outfit wherever you get your podcasts and watch video episodes on YouTube. New episodes every Thursday.