← Why Won't You Date Me? with Nicole Byer
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This is a Headgun podcast.
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Want to watch this episode? Catch the full video on YouTube. Just hit the link in the episode. We talk a lot about messy dating stories on this show, but you know what's making dating even messier? Lawmakers across the country trying to strip away our access to sexual and reproductive health care. Planned Parenthood believes your body is your business and you deserve the freedom to make your own choices. Your whether you need birth control, STI testing, gender affirming care or an abortion, their health centers are there for you. But right now, politicians are actively attacking Planned Parenthood and trying to control our futures. Millions of people are at risk of losing essential care, especially those in black, Latino, rural and low income communities. Health care is a human right, which is why I'm so proud to support them. Here is a fun behind the scenes fact about the POD I pay all my guests for coming on but but when they don't want to accept the money themselves, I asked where they'd like me to donate their fee instead. And Planned Parenthood is consistently the number one organization my guests choose to support. And together with people like you, me and the guests on this podcast, Planned Parenthood can fight every day to build the future we deserve. Supporters like you power this work. Donate to Support Planned Parenthood now@planned parenthood.org defend description. Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Why won't you date me? Please tell me why. Baby. Welcome to another episode of why Won't yout Date Me? A podcast where me, Nicole Byer, was trying to figure out why I was so single. Even though you could come in a book and say, that's my sticker book. My guest today is the author behind the Game Changers series and the hit steamy show Heated Rivalry. Her highly anticipated new book, Unrival Drops. What next year? I'm so excited. It's Rachel Reed. Rachel, how are you?
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I'm great. Busy. Great.
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How do you write a book?
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It's terrible. I would not recommend it at all.
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B
What made you want to write?
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A
I wanted to write originally because I just needed a creative outlet. I had like young kids and my life had kind of changed a lot because I was like, like in a band and doing lots of creative stuff. Going out every night in my 20s, living downtown. The then I got pregnant. Then we moved to the suburbs and then I was kind of like the only one with a baby. And then I wasn't really going out anymore and doing the creative stuff and after a few years I just got really sad. So writing was the creative outlet that I think made me happy again.
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I love that it was just like an escape for you. So it was like, okay, I got these kids over here, but I could go into a room and go to a different world that I've created.
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A
Yes, exactly. Although I wasn't even in a different room because I was actually sitting on their beds waiting for them to go to sleep while I was writing. Which maybe sounds messed up, but that's the truth.
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B
No, I don't think it sounds messed up. I think it's nice to be like, I can be in here. You can fall asleep, I'll do some mommy work, and we'll both be satisfied. Heated Rivalry is not the first book in the series, it's the second book.
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Yes.
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And you got a DM from Justin, who created the show. Jacob or Jacob. My God. Jacob Tierney.
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Jacob Tierney.
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Okay, so you got a DM from him saying that he wanted to option the book.
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Yeah. That was after all the books were out.
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B
All six?
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Yeah.
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And what was that like? Did you think it was a joke? I would have been like, hehe, Ha ha. Who the fuck? What?
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A
No, basically, yeah. Cause he's actually like, a pretty big deal in Canada. And so he followed me, and then I thought, you know, that was a mistake. And then he DMed me and said that he wanted to option my books. And yeah, at first I was like, this can't be real. But he had a blue check mark, so I was like, seems real. And then we had a zoom call, and it was real. And then he made the show.
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B
What goes through your mind? Cause the books are popular, and that itself is an achievement when people aren't really reading, you know? So, like, yeah, walk me through that. Like, what did that feel like? That the books were a hit. And then what was it like when it was like, oh, now not only are they a hit, but, like, now it's gonna be a TV show.
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A
Yeah. I never thought they'd be adapted. I just didn't think they could be because they're pretty. They're pretty raunchy. So, yeah, I think as each book came out in the series, each one sold a little better than the one before it. And that was a good feeling. It still wasn't enough. Like, I certainly wasn't making my living writing or anything like that, but it was. I was doing decently well for a side hustle. And then I think, yeah, when the sixth book came out in the series, which is basically the sequel to Heated Rivalry, it's The next Alien chain book. That one did quite well, considering it was ebook only, basically.
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Were they all ebooks?
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Yeah, they were. And so the versions that you see in bookstores now only came out in November 2024. So before that was mostly entirely ebook and audiobook. So, yeah, it was pretty awesome to start to make real money when the Long Game came out, especially when they weren't really in a lot of bookstores. So. Yeah. But then when the TV show became a possibility, I mean, obviously I didn't expect the success that I'm getting. I don't think any of us did. But I definitely thought this could level me up significantly. But, yeah, it's been wild.
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B
I could imagine, like, it is fucking crazy to be, like, this thing that was in my head that I put on paper, and now it's a visual medium that people can then see, and then the two actors from it. People are, like, obsessed a little bit.
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A
Yeah.
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In a way that I was like, we gotta get everybody into therapy. We gotta. My God. But I did like watching it. I was like, it is so romantic and, like, horny and fun. And I think. I don't know, like. Like, there was, like, a kind of a death of. Not like. Like, romantic things, like, the 90s. I feel like there was, like, erotic thrillers and things like that that were like, ooh. Like, I watched. I had never seen Dracula, and my friend Mark has a whole list of movies that he wants me to watch. And we were watching it, and I was like, people watch this in the theater. We were all just getting horny in the theater like that.
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Yep, they were.
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And I'm like, bring it back. And you did it, so thank you.
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And that was. I remember in Jacob's first conversation with me, he was like, you know, there's no, like, sex on television anymore. That's not, like, harrowing or violent. And he just. Yeah, it was something he wanted to try to bring back, and I think he was very successful.
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B
I have to agree. It was very, very successful. Um, everybody I know has seen it, which I think in this day and age, like, I think it's called, like, monoculture, where everyone saw the Sopranos, everybody watched the Office, and it's like, there's so many different things to watch that everybody isn't watching, like, one thing. But everybody watched Heat at Rivalry, and I think that is so fucking cool.
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A
I mean, we never. I never expected it to have this wide an audience. It's an unlikely hit to be, like, this globally loved. Like, there's nothing about it that on paper, you'd think, oh, everyone's going to watch and love this. But they did. It's Canadian. It's hockey. It's gay. It's very. Yeah, it's like sexually explicit. It's so many things. It's a small production show, unknown actors, like, just the whole thing. You're like, yeah, this will be a hit.
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B
So you're married? Husband's here.
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A
He's over here.
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B
It's nice to meet you. How did you guys meet?
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We met doing burlesque together.
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I love this.
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That's a very early 2000s meet. Cute.
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I think it really is. It is of a time when people
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were doing burlesque and yeah, it was like a little scrappy burlesque troupe in Halifax, Nova Scotia that was doing stuff for charity. And yeah, basically he was the keyboard player, like piano player for the show. And I was the one who had a car and could drive the keyboard to and from rehearsal. So that's how we met.
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B
And what was your act?
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Oh, I was. I was named Misconduct and I did sports and largely hockey themed stripping and comedy stuff and some music.
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Did you come out, like in full hockey attire and then slowly take off
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every piece for one of my act? I did and I borrowed it from a guy and it smelled so, so bad. And I went down to pasties, I think. Yeah, it was fun.
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B
That's so funny. I wonder if anyone in the front row was like, who we. Ooh, this lady who. My God, the smell coming off her is not okay.
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A
I tried to air it out, but, man.
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B
Yeah. When I lived in New York, there was a little closet on the floor I lived on and this guy put his hockey stuff in that closet. So. And then the door would close and then there was also like garbage in there. So it was like garbage and the smell of hockey equipment. So, like, I absolutely know what that smells like and is. And not good.
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It's the worst smell. I don't. I can't. I don't think there's a worse smell than hockey gear.
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No.
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So bad.
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It's nasty. And I'm like. And then they just put it on.
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Yeah. I don't mention this in my books, but they smell bad. So bad.
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B
So when you like, did you date a lot growing up? Were you a late bloomer?
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A
I was kind of like, always had like a long term boyfriend kind of girl. And so, like, I actually, like, I was only. I think we figured out the other day 22, when I met Matt, my husband. So that was basically the end of that. Like, it was like, it was kind of like. So we've just been together for, you know, over 20 years and that's. That's kind of been it. That's a long, really boring.
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B
It's not boring. I do not think love is boring. How do you make it work after 20 years? That's a long fucking time.
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A
Well, I think we're a little different, I guess, than a lot of couples. Like, monogamy is not like a big deal to us. It never has been. It's, you know, that's not something I've ever really found works that well, I don't think for most people. I think we are. It's a little forced for most people. Not everyone. So that's one way. And I also think just like giving each other space and like, you don't have to, like, all the same things or do all the same things. Like, we used to take like separate kind of trips and stuff like that. We don't do that as much anymore because, like, I'm really busy. So we don't like, see each other as much. So. But yeah, I think things like that, like, just give each other space to be your own person and, you know, I think our values are the same and like, we really get each other and support each other. But, like, I think a lot of people are surprised that we're a couple sometimes because we are very different. But it works, I think.
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B
Sounds like it works. It's been over 20 years. I kind of like the whole, like taking vacations on your own or like, not necessarily having all of the same interests and taking time for yourself. Because I don't think I could ever be in a relationship where, like, I have some friends who are in relationships where they do everything with their partner. And I'm like, good Lord, y' all live together, y' all do shit together. Don't you get sick of one another?
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A
Yeah.
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And they're like, no. And I'm like, they do. They have to.
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I'd say most of, like, like, I'll go out with my friends. Matt will go out with his friends, like, totally separately. It's pretty rare that we're both going out to the same thing. And that's fine. It's like, I think that works really well.
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B
In high school. Were you dating? You said. Yes, you said that you.
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A
I had the high school long term boyfriend, then I had the college long term boyfriend, you know, both of which I thought were very serious. And we'll definitely get married someday, you know, all of that. But.
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B
And were you monogamous with them?
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I was, yeah. But I think it was just. I was so young that you were
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like, oh, this is the thing that I'm supposed to.
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Yeah. And I think. I mean, I'm basically most like, am with Matt, too. It's just like, because for me, like, I'm. I'm too lazy to, like. I don't really want to, like, look for anyone else to be with. I'm fine. I'm fine. Perfectly good where I am. That's a lot of work and meeting people. But, yeah, Matt's free to do whatever he likes to do is kind of the thing.
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B
How did you to arrive at that decision? Was it a, like, vocal decision, or was it just like, hey, I don't care?
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Yeah, I think it's something we talked about quite a bit over the years. Like, Matt's bisexual. He's openly bisexual and wanted to explore that, and I was totally on board with that. And again, it's like, it doesn't concern me. Like, that's something he can do separately. It's not like a thing where I need a report or, like, I want to be involved in that in any way. It's just, yeah, you. You go do that.
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You know, be funny if you were like. And my stipulation is I would like a report. I would, like bullet points of things that happened and when you had the most fun. But no, I get that.
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Very much the opposite of that. I want none of that.
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Go do your thing. Yeah, I get that. I like that. I. So my. The nice man in my life, my current partner, went to, like, a bachelor party, and they went to, like, a strip club. And, like, some of the. Some of the women who were dating the guys who went were, like, mad about it. And I was like. Like, I was like, honestly, you could have the stripper. I don't care. Yeah, like, what, are you going to leave me for a stripper in Vegas? If so, good luck, Godspeed, you know, I don't think that's happening. I think she wanted your money, and that's it. That's where the transaction ends. And I'm like, how. How are you mad about that? Like, it just, like, really blows my mind when people get mad about things like that. I'm like, that has nothing to do with me. You had a nice time. Whatever. You came home to me. I like it.
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That's sort of. I mean, I think I even said to Matt once, like, it doesn't really make a difference to me if you go to dinner with a friend or have sex with a friend. As long as you're coming home and like, you know, you're still the dad to our kids.
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You're like, you suck a dick. You eat a steak. I don't care.
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Do the dishes.
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I don't care. Do the dishes. I don't care. Yeah, I love that.
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Yeah. What, what you do when you're out with other people doesn't really matter to me. As long as we're still good.
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I like that. I think that's a healthy way of looking at things real quick. Oh, we gotta take a break. Ugh. I love a good glass of wine at the end of the day, but staring at that massive wall of bottles in the grocery store gives me absolute anxiety. I don any of this stuff. I usually just pick the one with the cutest label and hope that it actually tastes good. Then I found First Leaf. They made the whole process of picking wine so much easier. You just take a quick quiz about your preferences and First Leaf delivers premium personalized wines straight to your door. Every box comes with easy to follow tasting notes and pairing suggestions. So whether I am making dinner or having friends over, I always know exactly what to pour. It makes me look like a total wine expert. They work directly with wineries, giving you award winning bottles at prices way below retail. You completely control your delivery schedule and they even offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee if a bottle misses the mark. I absolutely love always having a great bottle of wine ready to go. Stop settling for wines that don't quite hit the mark. Head to try firstleaf.com date me to sign up and you get 50% off your first box plus free shipping for an entire year. That's T R Y F I R S T l e a f.com Date me. Try firstleaf.com Date me. I'm living a full farm to table lifestyle right now. I am growing my own tomatoes. I have my little berries thriving and I'm so proud of it. But for the longest time, my backyard wasn't looking like a chic farm that I had imagined. It was an unorganized mess. I had my crops in random plastic pots I found in the garage and absolutely nowhere to sit and admire my hard work. But then I went on Wayfair. They have absolutely everything to completely transform your space, no matter your style or budget. I found the most gorgeous raised garden beds for my crops and a beautiful wooden potting bench and some incredible patio seating so I can literally just sit outside with a drink and stare at my tasty tomatoes. Wayfair is a total one stop. Shop for outdoor seating, patio, lighting, storage and decor. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, which is basically your shortcut to all the good stuff. Their team hand vets Items using a 10 point quality inspection, so you know you're getting a quality piece that will last outside no matter your budget. Get prepped for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style. Every home.
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A
Wayfair Every Style. Every Home.
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B
Recently, I took a little getaway to Joshua Tree with two of my besties and Clyde. And let me tell you. Oh, what a treat it was. What a dream it was. Now, we love a hotel for traveling, but for a trip like this with friends, hotels just don't give us the space we need. I love my friends, but a bathroom for one is not great when three women are trying to do our skincare routine all at the same same time. Okay, so we decided to book a stay on Airbnb and it just makes it for a way better trip. You could find the coolest, most unique spots to stay in. We found a home on Airbnb that had an actual vintage Airstream in the backyard just for lounging, plus this gorgeous outdoor soaking tub. I was looking online and you can literally find houses shaped like UFOs or ones with giant telescopes in the living room for stargazing. We had so much fun cooking a big group dinner together. Then we lounged around LAUGHING until like 2:00am which you literally cannot do when you're all split up into separate hotel rooms. Next time you're planning a getaway with your friends, do yourself a favor and book a stay on Airbnb. Writing about gay men as a lady. Why?
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A
That's the big question is it's a
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B
question you get a lot.
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A
Well, it's the question I get asked and I never really have a great answer because for me it really felt like I just had this idea for a story and then the next one and the next one. It wasn't really something where I was like, I'm going to write about. I'm going to write gay romance novels about men. That wasn't really what I set out to do. It just, I think you just kind of. I mean, once you have a book that does pretty well and then another one, your publisher would like it. If you keep writing publishers, like, same
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B
sort of thing, this is the area you're in now.
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A
You've got a brand I mean, it is something that matters a lot to me, though. Like, queer joy is very important to me personally. It's very important to, like, my family and, like, my friends. And so, you know, that's one reason. And I just. I don't know, I guess I just enjoy writing it. But, you know, I'm very aware that I'm. I'm not a gay man. I'm not a bisexual man. So I do try to, like, you know, keep that in mind when I'm writing and try to be very sensitive
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B
about that, which I. I think that's really wonderful and appreciate, because it's like, how do you be an ally without, like, overstepping? And I think it's a. It's a hard road to drive down. I don't know. Anyway, I think the thing that resonates the most with it, it is queer joy. It is like. Like, nothing bad happens. Do you know what I mean? Like the episode where Shane tells his parents, you're kind of like, uh, oh, are they gonna, like, disown him? Are they gonna be mad about it? And then they kind of just, like, have dinner and, like, they're like, okay. And it's one of my. It's. I think it's my favorite episode because it's just a nice time. This is nice.
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A
It's very relaxing. Yeah, it is.
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B
It's relaxing. And you're like, nothing bad happened. And, like, love is shared and love is explained and it's supportive and it's just nice.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So you are consulting on it or a producer on it?
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A
I'm a consulting producer. Which means, like, a little bit, like, you know, I get sent the scripts. I get sent, like, you know, like, this is who we're thinking about casting for this. I get kept up to date, I visit the set, things like that. But I don't really know anything about filmmaking, so it's. I just kind of, you know, step back and let the people that know what they're doing do their work.
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B
What is something that you've learned about filmmaking?
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A
I think quite a bit. I mean, I. I mean, not enough that I could actually make a film, but you could. I think the first thing that really surprised me because when I stepped onto the set the first time, that was the first time I've been on any kind of set. So what really blew me away was just how many people were working and working very hard and very efficiently. And just also, you get a sense of, like, oh, there's a lot of money being spent on this, and a Lot of people really care about getting this story right. They care about these characters. They care about, you know, the little details on the set, on the. Like, in the decoration, the costuming. And. Yeah, it really kind of blew me away that it was just even surreal to hear people, like crew members talking about the characters in the story on set, because I was like, those are my characters. This is my thing. So I think, yeah, it was fascinating, but also fascinating to watch Jacob work. He's the writer, director, and producer, and he runs a really tight ship. But you can also tell that everybody really respects and enjoys working for him, which I think is why the show is so good. But he's so efficient. It's really fun to watch. Watch him work. And I think I learned. I mean, I've talked to other authors whose, you know, experience with getting their books adapted wasn't nearly as fun, and I think I've learned that I'm very lucky to have had such an amazing experience that it's not always the case.
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B
Yeah. I think it's Bret Easton Ellis, who did not like the adaptation of American Psycho.
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A
Yeah, he didn't.
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B
Which I think is crazy.
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A
Which everyone says is a masterpiece. Yeah.
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B
I think it's such a good movie. And I've read the book, and I was like, not. I think they did a good job. But, hey, you know, it's your thing. It's your baby. Do you think you'll, like. Do you have any ambitions of, like, writing a different series with different characters and.
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A
Yeah, I mean, I'd like to write something that's not romance even. Like, I'd like to try to branch out a bit. I'm also interested in learning how to write screenplays. Yeah. Just. I'm open to writing all sorts of different stuff. I'd like to write something that's not hockey.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I just want to see if I can do that, frankly.
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B
Yeah. Bridge. Do a bridge into tennis, maybe. No, I'm kidding. But, I mean, you're in such a perfect scenario where you can learn about screenwriting. You know, you just, like, ask a bunch of questions and whatnot. And honestly, reading the scripts and dissecting them and, like, you know, going online. Like, I don't know. Like, I can see this for you. I see you writing screenplays and whatnot.
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A
I would. I would really love to.
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B
Well, I see it for you, Diva.
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A
Great. Great to hear.
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B
Heard it from me. All right. When you. Okay, so I also have written a book, and I say book very loosely because it's a picture book.
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A
I have It.
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B
Oh, you do?
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A
Yeah, I bought it when it came out. I pre ordered it. I actually have two copies of it.
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B
Oh, my God, Am I gonna burst into tears? I'm, like, really blown away.
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A
I love it.
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B
Thank you. Thank you so much. I had a word count to hit and I was like, well, I don't know if I'll ever do. Was so hard.
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A
Yeah, that's my life every day.
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B
Wait, do you have a word count that you have to hit?
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A
A rough one? Yeah.
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B
Huh. I thought authors just got to, like, pick the length of their book.
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A
Well, we do, but there's a sweet spot that I aim for.
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B
There was a sweet spot they were aiming for, and I was just like, I don't know, what if I add another the like, that's where I was getting down to.
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A
Like, what was the word count?
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B
Oh, girl, I don't remember, but it was not a lot. Maybe a thousand. Wow. So when you have like a first draft of a book, does it immediately go to the publisher or do you send it to friends to read first?
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A
I don't send it to friends. I send it to my editor. My editor, MacKenzie, is usually the first person to read it. That's not me. Sometimes I do read to Matt. I'll read chunks of the book or let him read chunks of the book to sieve, get a bit of feedback. But other than him, nobody gets to read it except my editor.
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B
Do you feel nervous about what the notes will be or do you feel, like, incredibly confident?
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A
I'd say I'm still nervous. I mean, I've done all of my books with the same editor, so I kind of can guess what she's gonna say about things. So I feel like my manuscripts are cleaner now because while I'm writing, I can picture what she's gonna say about something and I can fix it as I go. But, yeah, I'm always nervous. You know, I know she's not gonna write back and be like, this is garbage. But I still always think, like, maybe. Maybe this is the one that she's like, wow, we can't publish this.
- [27:12]
B
Yeah, I feel like with performing, I've been performing for such a long time, but anytime I try a new joke, I'm like, is the audience gonna hate me? Are they gonna throw tomatoes and tell me I'm nasty? But then it's just like, no, it always goes. Yeah, it goes fine.
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A
I think, like, the release day is more nerve wracking than when I send it to my editor. Or, like, when the review copies go out and the first reviews start to come in. That's. That's the really stressful time.
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B
Have you gotten any reviews that you're like, oh, you didn't get it?
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A
Oh, yeah, I don't. I try not to ever read reviews anymore. It's been, like, a long time since I've really read reviews, even glowing ones. But, yeah, those early, early ones.
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B
Why you don't like glowing reviews?
- [27:59]
A
I don't know. It just. There's something that makes me feel weird when I read them. I can't really explain it, but I just prefer to not know what people are saying about the book. But, yeah, the early ones have stuck with me. I know my very first review I ever saw, my very first book, tore it apart. And I will never forget that review or who did it. So I'm like, yeah, things like that stay with you.
- [28:29]
B
But do you mind telling me what that review said?
- [28:32]
A
Oh, boy.
- [28:33]
B
Cause you won. You know what I'm saying?
- [28:35]
A
I can't remember the specific things anymore.
- [28:37]
B
You just remember that it wasn't great.
- [28:39]
A
It just really. Yeah, it tore it apart in a way that I thought was very harsh, considering it was my first book. But, yeah, overall, the reviews for that first book were decent. So, I mean, I should. There was no reason to do. To focus on that one.
- [28:55]
B
I think I understand when you say you don't like, like, reading glowing reviews because, like, when I first started acting people or doing comedy, people would be like, oh, I think you're really funny. And I'd be like, yes, yes, thank you, thank you. Oh, God, I don't what up. But then I worked with somebody who was like, yeah, well, they're telling you they like what you do, so, like, why wouldn't you be, like, happy to hear that? And now when people give me compliments, I'm like, yes, that's why I left the house. Yeah, give me all of them. But, like, I get it. It's like sometimes you don't really know how to, like, handle praise sometimes. At least for me, I'd be like, oh, that's too much. I'm just. I'm. I'm a clown. I'm just doing silly things. What do you mean?
- [29:39]
A
Like, yeah, that's how I've been feeling a lot lately, because I'm like, I just write romance novels, but really, really care about these characters, which is amazing. But on a level that I'm like, oh, this is starting to feel like a lot. Like, I feel like I need to make sure to never let you down.
- [29:56]
B
Oh, yeah, that's Fucking tough to be like, oh, I have set a standard and you've enjoyed it thus far. Hopefully the next one doesn't let you down.
- [30:08]
A
And you've got a full back tattoo of my characters. And now I have to make sure that you never want to get that removed.
- [30:17]
B
That's wild.
- [30:18]
A
Yeah. Things like that are a lot. It's a lot of pressure, but it's touching. But it's also like, yeah, I need to be a perfect person forever for this person.
- [30:32]
B
What is the thing in your life that has changed the most since the books and the TV show?
- [30:38]
A
I'm going to say I get recognized a lot, which is weird for an author, generally, even a famous author. The biggest authors in the world don't typically get recognized on the streets. And I do, like, every day.
- [30:50]
B
Really every day.
- [30:52]
A
That's in every city I go to. So that's really weird for authors. I can't really think of many authors, even my very favorite authors, that I would recognize in public because you just don't see authors that often. But because of all the hype around the show, my face is out there a lot, and a lot of people recognize me. I got free pizza at the Wiltern Theater last night because the concession person recognized me.
- [31:16]
B
That's nice.
- [31:17]
A
Yeah, free pizza's nice.
- [31:18]
B
Yeah.
- [31:19]
A
I got free Dairy Queen once, and my kids lost their minds. They were like, well, this is great.
- [31:24]
B
I would have lost my mind. I would have absolutely lost. I love soft serve.
- [31:28]
A
Yeah, that's what.
- [31:29]
B
It's truly my favorite thing. What's the weirdest thing a fan has done?
- [31:34]
A
Oh, boy. One thing is I get given sometimes really erotic art of the actors and anyone who's. If you're listening to this and you've given me this art, it's lovely. I'm not a prude. I love erotic art. Doesn't have much of the next person, but those are my friends.
- [31:55]
B
These are people I know.
- [31:56]
A
I'll just be honest. It's not on my wall at home. I have it all in a place together, but it's not on display because I feel weird about that.
- [32:06]
B
No, I fully get that. Like, yeah, erotica art of, like, people, you know, it's just like, well, well, okay, thank you so much. But, like, I know these people personally.
- [32:15]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [32:16]
B
I've had people not draw me erotically, but sometimes they'll draw me in a way where I'm like, is this really what you see? Because that's not very flattering. And then I have to say thank you, because it's Like, I am grateful that you took the time to make it. Maybe I don't see myself in it, but, like, art is art. You tried. You weren't trying to make it bad. And art is kind of like in the eyes of the beholder. But truly, I've gotten some things that I'm like, oh, my word.
- [32:51]
A
Yeah, I'm lucky that I've only seen a tiny bit of art of me, because it's always of the characters or the actors.
- [32:56]
B
Yes.
- [32:57]
A
So that's good. Although I've seen some nice art of me, very lovely portions of me, which I appreciate, but no erotic art yet, which is good. I prefer not to see that.
- [33:08]
B
Everyone, she don't want it. There's someone right now putting their paintbrush away, being like, oh, God. So you live in Canada?
- [33:20]
A
Yep.
- [33:20]
B
The show broke through in the state. Like, I get, like, the world. Like, what's that? Like, putting Canada kind of like. I don't. No offense. I don't really think about Canada. Not to be rude. It's not on my.
- [33:33]
A
When you think of sexy television shows, you don't think of Canada.
- [33:35]
B
I'm not like, oh, yeah. But, like, how does that feel to kind of, like, make Canada in people's brains?
- [33:43]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's been a pretty fun part of all of this. I mean, I think we've really shown the world what Canadian film can do, what Canadian television can do with, you know, pretty. Pretty small budget, relatively, to, like, Hollywood
- [33:58]
B
and.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, it's like a very Canadian show. It's like, in Canada, there's a lot of Canadian places. It was filmed there, a lot of Canadian actors, so. And I think, like, you know, the parts of the show that are in New York are very clearly still in Canada. But that's charming.
- [34:13]
B
That's charming.
- [34:14]
A
I like it. But, yeah, I think it's been cool. Canada as a whole has kind of lost their minds about having this kind of representation on the world stage. And the smaller places that they filmed in have really enjoyed a tourism boom, which is really funny. And, yeah, I don't know. It's been cool. Our prime minister is very into it.
- [34:41]
B
It's really cool. It's really cool that something that started in your brain, you put it onto paper and you have created. You're a job creator. You know that, right? You have created so many jobs for people.
- [34:55]
A
That's been the best part, honestly, the success that I've seen people have. I mean, obviously the actors and people like that, but it's like the ripple effect of the show, like, I've had people who do trivia nights tell me that this has paid their rent. I've had fan artists say that they're now debt free. I've had, like, you know, tattoo artists doing really well. I've had, like, I don't know, just like, people that sell, like, different, like, little products and things, like candles or whatever. They're doing great. And, you know, people like the actors, stylist, groomers, like, those people are becoming, like, kind of stars and. Yeah, like, even, like the intimacy coordinator on the show has done a lot of press. The costume designers. I don't know.
- [35:40]
B
It's cool.
- [35:40]
A
Like, I think it's.
- [35:42]
B
You're very humble about this before. It's crazy.
- [35:45]
A
Obviously, I'm doing okay, too, but I don't know, it makes me really happy that all of these very talented people have done so well from it.
- [35:57]
B
And then when does season two come out?
- [36:00]
A
I believe it will be spring of 2027.
- [36:03]
B
Okay, cool.
- [36:04]
A
Not sure if there's a month yet. Spring, I think, is the aim.
- [36:08]
B
And then you have unrivaled. Comes out next year. Yeah, June 1st and then. Are you going to take a break?
- [36:16]
A
Oh, my God, yes. Well, as soon as possible. Yeah. But I do next year will be very busy with the book tour and so forth. And season two.
- [36:28]
B
Do you do. When you go on a book tour? What does a book tour entail? I only know.
- [36:32]
A
I don't know. I've never done one.
- [36:34]
B
You're like, I'm about to fucking find out.
- [36:37]
A
See if I like it. Yeah. I mean, typically, it's like you go to a different city pretty much every day and go to a bookstore event
- [36:45]
B
excerpts from the book.
- [36:47]
A
I don't. I hate doing that. So I usually do. I usually do a Q and A. Oh, okay. I prefer that. And then like a signing.
- [36:53]
B
Oh, okay. And there's audiobooks, right? Did you narrate the audiobooks or.
- [36:57]
A
No. My God, no. Nobody would want that.
- [36:59]
B
I don't know.
- [37:00]
A
Listen to me.
- [37:02]
B
You sound wonderful. Truly, I do.
- [37:06]
A
No, we have some great narrators who do the audiobooks.
- [37:11]
B
My research shows me. My lovely assistant Lindsay does my research, and she found that you make a Spotify playlist for each book that you write.
- [37:21]
A
I was doing that. I had them. Yeah. I think. Yeah. All of the Game Changers books had a Spotify playlist that's probably still on there. You can probably find it. I think tons of people have made their own. There's probably a million out there now. But basically it's just songs. I listen To a lot while writing each book. Kind of like the vibe of the book, but yeah, definitely for heated rivalry alone. I know even before the show, so many people made their own playlists, so there's tons of them out there now.
- [37:48]
B
Are you making these playlists before you start writing or during the writing?
- [37:52]
A
Usually during the writing. I might start with a couple songs before, but that are kind of like, this is like the tone I want the book to have, but for the most part, it would just kind of grow as I was writing.
- [38:05]
B
Also, you didn't have an agent when you wrote your first book.
- [38:08]
A
No.
- [38:09]
B
So I'm sure there's other people who are writing who don't know how to get published. So what was that journey like?
- [38:16]
A
Well, I basically just saw at the time there. Well, at the time, almost no publishers were doing queer romance. So it was pretty easy to round that down to the ones I could possibly submit to. And then two of those had open submissions, which meant you could submit without an agent. So I submitted to both of them and eventually both of them did offer to publish the book. But, yeah, I didn't have an agent for the first. Well, technically, my first five books, I didn't have an agent.
- [38:48]
B
That's wild.
- [38:49]
A
Yeah, I don't know if I'd recommend that, but. But it. I did do that. And yeah, it's probably better if you have an agent. Yeah.
- [39:00]
B
But I do love that, you know, have not having an agent kind of. It's a hurdle of trying to get something, you know, out there for people. But I like that you, like, persevered. And you were like, no, I'm gonna submit my shit. That's what I'm gonna do.
- [39:12]
A
Yeah. And then, you know, my agent reached out to me, so I didn't have to query for an agent.
- [39:18]
B
And that's the best case scenario when somebody wants you.
- [39:21]
A
Yeah.
- [39:21]
B
Real quick, we gotta take another break. Getting dressed used to take me forever because I could never find the perfect balance between an outfit that looked really cute and was actually comfortable. I love fabrics that feel expensive but actually let me breathe. Quints fixed all of that for me because all the clothes they make are flattering but feel luxurious. Quince makes it incredibly easy to refresh your everyday wardrobe for spring with pieces that feel as good as they look. They use all these amazing premium materials like a hundred percent European linen, organic cotton, and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at just $30. They are so breathable, effortless, and easy to wear on repeat. The best part is everything at quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship and not brand markup. I bought the nice man in my life. These really cute short sleeve button downs with like a little polo collar. It's olive green. The other one is this creamy color and he looks so sophisticated and handsome. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com date me for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com date me for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com date me. And we're back. So you were diagnosed with Parkinson's in 2023.
- [41:02]
A
That's right.
- [41:05]
B
You were like, what? Yeah, that was Right?
- [41:07]
A
Oh yeah.
- [41:08]
B
What was, what was that like? Were you.
- [41:11]
A
It was awesome.
- [41:15]
B
That is. It was a bad question. You're like, it's perfect. I love it. But was it one of those things where cause it causes tremors? Right.
- [41:23]
A
Yes. It was actually kind of a relief to be diagnosed, to figure out what's going on. I think when you don't know what's wrong with you, you just want to know. Even if it's bad news, it's like, at least you have an answer. And by the time I got diagnosed, I pretty much was 99% sure that's what I had. Cause we'd ruled out everything else and that process rules out some much worse things. So yeah, it was, it was kind of a relief to get the diagnosis and the medication and get started on treatment and stuff.
- [41:52]
B
So was it a journey to figuring it out? Because I feel like sometimes when something is going on with bodies, like it just takes doctors too fucking long.
- [42:02]
A
Yep.
- [42:03]
B
And like, as a woman, I feel like sometimes you're not listened to and you're like, like, I found out I was allergic to morphine because I was at the hospital and I was like, I'm hot and itchy. And they were like, that's not a thing. And I was like, well, okay. And then I said it to the doctor who did surgery on my ankle and he was like, oh, you probably have an allergy to morphine. And I was like, well, that's funny. Yeah, that's funny that weeks later somebody is like, oh, that's why that happened.
- [42:26]
A
Yeah, I had this tremor for a long time, like a year. And you know, I kind of thought maybe it's parkinson's. Because that's, you know, that's the first thing you think of with that. But, you know, the first doctor I saw was like, oh, it's definitely not Parkinson's. And so I was like, okay, well, that's good. And they said it might be an essential tremor, which is honestly not like, a lot better because that's like, Parkinson's with no treatment. So. So it's like. I mean, it's different, but it's still a tremor that you have forever. So I just kind of rolled with that for a while, but then, like, it kind of was getting worse. And then there were, like, other symptoms. Like, I was like, oh, I'm having trouble walking. My toes are curling up really tight, like, involuntary. I have all these, like, muscle cramps. And then, you know, so I went back to the doctor, and then they were like, maybe you should see a neurologist. And I was like, great. So long waiting list for that. And then in the meantime, I, you know, eventually I did get some CAT scans and one mri, and that ruled out, like, some other things. And then I got to finally see a neurologist who was like, okay, yeah, I think that this is Parkinson's. We'll put you on medication.
- [43:35]
B
So that sucks, though, that there is a waiting list. I feel like there shouldn't ever be a waiting list for, like, ailments.
- [43:41]
A
I know, like, am. The neurologist I got to see was a migraine specialist, and she was like, yeah, I don't really know much about Parkinson's, but the waiting list for that doctor would be five years. So anyway, I now have a neurologist who does know about Parkinson's, So I'm good. But, yeah, it's was a long journey, but that sucks.
- [44:04]
B
When I broke my ankle, it happened in 2020, and it was, like, right before Thanksgiving. And every surgeon I. Because you have to figure out your surgeon. I didn't know that. I was, like, at the hospital, and I was like, so you're going to fix it? And they're like, no. And I was like, what? They're like, you go home. I said, okay. And then was at home. And then called the hospital and was like, so what do I do now? And they're like, oh, you have to find a surgeon. So then I was just calling surgeon. Orthopedic surgeons being like, can you do my surgery? And they'd be like, no. And then a lot of them had very long waits. And then the way I found mine was my old or my manager's old assistant, his Friend from college, his father was an orthopedic surgeon. So they like, slotted me in and I was like, I had to know somebody.
- [44:50]
A
That is not the way it should be. No, no, no.
- [44:54]
B
It really blew me away.
- [44:55]
A
Yeah. I think it's a little different in Canada, but still a lot of waiting.
- [44:59]
B
Yeah. Can I ask, do you have any advice for single people listening?
- [45:05]
A
Yeah, I think be open to someone who doesn't seem to be like, anything like you. If you feel like you connect on the things that really matter, which are your values, sense of humor. And I would say if you have, like, respect for each other, that's like, the most important thing. Like everything else. Like, if somebody's really into, like, a band you hate or. Or doesn't like, your favorite thing in the world, like, that doesn't matter. What matters is, is the values and, like. And kind of like what you want out of life too. Like, I think that that part's really important.
- [45:42]
B
I agree. There's this lady on TikTok. I like her name. I don't know her name, but I call her Tacky Teeth because she's from England. And the video I first saw was her and her boyfriend getting new teeth in Turkey. And they both just love each other so much. And when I listen to her, I'm like, yeah, I don't think I could hang out with her. But, like, she found somebody who's deeply, deeply into her and they'll go shopping together and she'll be like, look at him with his new tiff and his new shorts. And he's always like, just like, modeling for her. And, yeah, they might not have everything in common, but they, like, really enjoy one another.
- [46:19]
A
Yep.
- [46:19]
B
And I feel like, yeah, like, a lot of couples miss that part of, like, enjoying the other person you're with.
- [46:26]
A
Yeah, that's. That's key. And I think for me too, I needed, like, I. My boyfriend in college was super nice, like, too nice for me. So, like, that's a good example of, like. Like, we. We weren't the same enough. Even though I liked a lot of things about him, he was great. We got along really well. But, like, if I wanted to say something bitchy about something, he would be like, defend it. And I'm like, no, because now I feel like an even bigger bitch. That's bad. So it's like, you need, like, I learned that I need to be with somebody I can, like, give a side eye to, and they know exactly what. What's stupid about the situation that we're in. Like, and we're gonna definitely talk about it as soon as we're out of that room. Like, that's important. That's important to me.
- [47:10]
B
It's important to me, too. The nice man in my life sometimes. We were in an Uber once, and he had all of the windows down and was blasting, I think. Creed.
- [47:20]
A
Oh, yeah. And that's a great situation to decide on your partner.
- [47:26]
B
He kept. He was a Tesla, so, like, if you touch the gas, like, you fly. But he was stepping on the gas and then slamming on the brake, so it was like. Also, my contacts were getting dried out, so I was, like, getting jerked around, and then I was, like, texting him, and then he kept being like, we'll talk about it later. We'll talk about it later.
- [47:43]
A
Are you like, we're gonna die to Creed. This is the last song I'm gonna hear.
- [47:48]
B
I'm like, jesus is meeting me. But, yeah, like, it was. We talked about it at dinner for some. So long. Because it was so wild. And we were just, like, talking shit about the driver. And it is one of my favorite pastimes to do with him, to be like, let's talk shit.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah. It's so important to me and that you. You don't have to even explain, like. Like, you're both totally on the same page about it.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah. I remember the first time I was complaining about a friend to him. I was like, well, they are my friend, and I know. And he was like, you don't have to do that. You want to hear my thoughts about my friends? And I was like, yes, I do. I just love it. I love talking shit.
- [48:25]
A
Yep.
- [48:27]
B
What is another thing that you guys do together that you like?
- [48:30]
A
I mean, we. You know, like, most couples, we like to watch TV together.
- [48:36]
B
Did you guys watch Heat at Rivalry together?
- [48:37]
A
We did. We watched the rough edits together. We watched it one episode per night so we could savor it and talk about it. And Matt's like, my proxy crier. I never cry. So he's just, like, blubbering next to me while I'm feeling a million things watching it, but he's crying on my behalf, But I love that.
- [48:58]
B
Yeah, I love that so much. I love, love it truly. Just, like, makes me, like. I don't know. I feel like the world is so sad and bad, but then it's just like. Yeah, but there's human connection and there's human love, and it's not all bad.
- [49:16]
A
Yeah, we can be really nice to each other sometimes.
- [49:19]
B
Yeah.
- [49:19]
A
Really like each other.
- [49:20]
B
And again, that's why I think people resonate with your writing, because it's people being nice to one another.
- [49:26]
A
Yeah. There's a line. Well, in the books that end also on the show, that's, like, very much something that my husband and I say to each other all the time, which is, I like you. I like you too. It's just like, something that we say every now and again just as. Actually pretty often just as, like. I don't know, it's somehow, to me, it's, like, nicer than saying, I love you.
- [49:45]
B
I agree. I said to the nice man in my life, I was like, I like you. And he's like, well, I love you. And I was like, I love you too. But right now, I really like you.
- [49:53]
A
Yeah. I think liking somebody's a big deal.
- [49:55]
B
Yes. Because I. I've said this so many times on the podcast, but I had dated so many men who did not like me, and I knew they didn't like me, and I would just be like, well, maybe if I do this, they'll like me. And it's. They would just be so annoyed with me because I love talking, and I narrate what I'm feeling at all times. But it's like, yeah, having someone like you is so much more important than having someone love you. Because it's like, oh, you might love my comedy, but then when we meet, you might actually not like me as a person. Do you know what I mean?
- [50:29]
A
Yep.
- [50:30]
B
And I've had people when I used to do meet and greets, I've stopped doing them since, just because when you do an hour of standup and then like, a half hour to 45 minutes of a meet and greet, it's like, so now I've been performing for an hour and 45.
- [50:44]
A
I totally get that.
- [50:45]
B
And then I gotta do another show. Somebody was like, oh, you must hate meet and greets. And I was like, no, I just. I'm not performing right now. I'm just trying to, like, talk to you, meet you where you are, and, like, have a nice time before I have to get ready to do another show.
- [51:01]
A
It's hard to meet, like, a lineup of people one at a time and be on for each because it's so important that you give them each that memory that they're hoping for.
- [51:09]
B
Yeah.
- [51:09]
A
So it is. It is. It can be very tiring. Yeah.
- [51:12]
B
Rachel, thank you so much for being here.
- [51:15]
A
Oh, thank you for having me. It's awesome.
- [51:17]
B
We've come to the end. Do you have anything you want to
- [51:20]
A
promote a special edition of heated rivalry coming out in September. That's coming out September 29th.
- [51:26]
B
Wait, what makes it special?
- [51:28]
A
It's a hardcover. Yeah, it's fancy. Yeah, it's got some bonus content. Ooh, sprayed edges and.
- [51:35]
B
Ooh, what does that mean?
- [51:36]
A
They're, you know, like the. Like, metallic gold edges. Oh.
- [51:39]
B
Oh, that is fancy.
- [51:41]
A
Really fancy. So it's the same book, but fancier, so you should buy that.
- [51:48]
B
I think my favorite thing about that is I feel like the only really sprayed books I see are Bibles, and I feel like this will be a Bible to some women.
- [51:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's true. Those gold edges.
- [52:03]
B
Yeah. Reminds me of the King James version. Rachel, I ask all of my guests this. Would you date me?
- [52:11]
A
I think I wouldn't date anybody right now. Even if I. You know what? Even if Matt's out of the picture, I just. I can't do it. I just can't.
- [52:19]
B
Okay.
- [52:20]
A
It's the idea of having to, like, go on a date and meet somebody is scary to me.
- [52:30]
B
Okay. I. I accept that, and I. I appreciate the honesty. Sorry. I appreciate the honesty. No, it's fine. I won't walk into traffic. I'm fine.
- [52:42]
A
It's the whole world. I'm. I'm saying I won't date.
- [52:45]
B
No, I get it. Thank you so much for being here. Truly. This was incredible. And if you like this episode of why won't you date me? You can like it. You could follow it, you could rate it 5 stars on Spotify and Apple podcasts. You could tell a friend. You could recommend the show on Reddit. It really does help the show out. And if you write me something nasty hitting on me to why won't you date me? PodcastMail.com I will read it. This person writes, hey, Nicole, I want to shrink myself down to the size of a hot Wheels car and drive it all over your glorious curves when I finally reach your grand Canyon, in parentheses, pussy. I'll park my little car, set up a tiny camping tent, and just live down there, lapping up your juices like a thirsty little woodland creature until I drown from Max. Thanks, Max. That was disturbing, and I liked it.
- [53:34]
A
That was a Hitgum podcast.
- [53:36]
B
Hi, I am Mandy Moore. Sterling K. Brown. And I'm Chris Sullivan. And we host the podcast that was Us now on Headgum. Each episode, we're gonna go into a deep dive from our show. This is us. That's right.
- [53:48]
A
We're gonna go episode by episode.
- [53:50]
B
We're also gonna pepper in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors. Are we gonna cry? Yes, a little bit. Are we gonna laugh a lot. A whole lot. That's what I'm hoping. Man. Listen to that. Was us on your favorite podcast app. Or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify.
- [54:10]
A
New episodes every Tuesday.