256: Charles Davis

Summary

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Wildlife Photo Chat – Ep. 256: Creative Fieldcraft & Rebellion with Charles Davis

Host: Ray Hennessy
Guest: Charles Davis
Date: July 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of Wildlife Photo Chat, Ray Hennessy sits down with Australian wildlife photographer Charles Davis for a lively, wide-ranging conversation. The two dive deep into Charles' creative process, his dedication to fieldcraft, the business of selling prints, and his rebellious, outside-the-box approach to both photography and life. Along the way, Charles shares stories from the field, unique insights about making wildlife art accessible, and practical thoughts on creativity, gear, and living authentically as an artist. The episode is full of colorful anecdotes, thoughtful advice, and plenty of humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Charles Has Been Up To & The Ongoing Dingo Project

• Life Updates:
  Charles has been renovating his house for the arrival of his first child, discovering serious issues (termites!) that turned a small project into a massive one.
  “I bought a tool belt. I've been swinging a hammer. But in between that, I've been working with dingoes for the last two years now…” – Charles [01:36]

• On Photographing Dingoes:

  • Has been following the same pack—featured in Nat Geo and BBC films—trying to capture unique behaviors, especially their coordinated hunting of kangaroos his own size.
  • Uses e-bikes loaded with gear to keep pace with the dingoes on their hunts.
  • Recounts a recent triumph: finally capturing a backlit dingo howling in the cold, its breath dramatically visible (“I need that.”—Charles [04:09]).

• Unique Field Techniques:

  • E-bikes for speed and stealth, then running to get into position.
  • His approach is more akin to hunting than traditional wildlife photography, using skills honed on a sheep farm and from a background in snowboarding and art.

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2. Chasing “Transcendent” Images & Appealing to a Broad Audience

• On Making Emotional Impact:

  • Seeks images that connect with "normal people," not just impressing fellow photographers.
  • Example: The visual of a backlit howl fascinates laypeople and draws them into nature's emotional realities.
    “We want the normal people to appreciate our work, not just stroke other photographers.” – Charles [06:24]

• Career Ambitions:

  • Primary recent motivation: win Wildlife Photographer of the Year (WPY) to “be the best in the world for a year” [07:36].
  • Has been a finalist three years in a row.

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3. The Business of Prints: A Rebellious Economic Model

• Defying Industry “Rules”:

  • Unlike most, Charles makes a full living by selling big, limited edition prints through his own gallery.
    “No, nobody makes a living selling prints.”—Charles, recounting peers’ disbelief [08:30]
  • Purposely prices his art high to filter for appreciative buyers, creates exclusivity, and emphasizes unique quality over mass-market cheapness.

• Gallery Philosophy:

  • Gallery is in a renovated church, decorated with local materials and flora to create an immersive experience.
  • Staff are trained to make every visitor feel welcome, regardless of purchase. “It would not be a gallery of snootiness or staleness or prejudice.” – Charles [28:21]

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4. Fieldcraft, Upbringing, and the Creative Mindset

• Fieldcraft Over Gear:

  • Stresses that knowing animal behavior and moving quietly in nature is more important than tech skills. “Learn how to hunt…You don’t have to kill anything. The hunting—the being in nature, problem solving—that’s what people are instinctively meant to do.” – Charles [21:03]

• Childhood & Family Influence:

  • Grew up on a 5,000-acre sheep farm in an artistic family that valued creative independence.
  • Hunting, bushcraft, and creative encouragement shaped both his worldview and his photographic “edge.”

• How He Became a Photographer:

  • Started as a snowboarding “snow bum,” picked up a camera for fun, found instant success selling prints to friends, and “went all in” professionally after reading inspiration from David Attenborough [18:30].

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5. Passion, Rebellion, and Unconventional Success

• Rebel Mentality:

  • Attributes success to a strong tendency to buck trends and disregard naysayers.
    “If someone tells me to do something, I’m generally going to do the opposite…Not with that attitude.” – Charles [13:01]

• Passion Drives Business:

  • Believes passion is “infectious” and underpins his brand, customer experience, and happiness. “First and foremost…the job is to make every single person who comes through that door feel welcome and have a good time…” – Charles [27:58]

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6. Creativity, Technique, and Artistic Growth

• Learning Photographically:

  • Adapts lessons from snowboarding: try different disciplines for overall balance.
  • Uses portrait techniques (even from wedding photography) on wildlife to create more intimate, creative images.

• On ‘Copying’ vs. Being Unique:

  • Admits that all art builds on predecessors but urges photographers to “swipe ideas” and remix techniques, not simply re-create others’ work.
  • Suggests personality shows in photographic style: some are “Pokemon collectors,” ticking off species or shots, others (like Charles) want to “break new ground” [37:12].

• On Uniqueness:

  • Takes pleasure in tackling challenging, never-been-done-before shots—e.g., 27 nights spent camera-trapping a native quoll [38:58].
  • Enjoys using ultra-wide lenses to capture animals in vast landscapes, influenced by his landscape-painter grandfather.

  “You cannot bullshit a small animal, big landscape shot. It is where it is, and that animal is in the wild.” – Charles [41:12]

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7. Gear Philosophy: Tools, Not Status Symbols

• Favorite Approaches:

  • Loves switching between big primes (e.g., 600mm) and all-in-one zooms (e.g., 28–400mm) for versatility and challenge.
  • Downplays gear obsession; says most clients don’t care about technical perfection if the image is meaningful.

  “At the end of the day, most people don’t care how sharp your image is. One of our best-selling images is 1 megapixel, pixelated all hell, and underexposed…and people don’t care. They just like it.” – Charles [45:04]

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8. On Creativity and Comfort Zones

• How to Unblock Yourself:

  • Advises photographers to “make yourself uncomfortable”: get wet, cold, lie on the ground, tackle new situations, or use unfamiliar gear.
  • Physical and creative discomfort breed originality and growth.

  “If you’re comfortable taking your photos and you feel happy, you’re doing it wrong. You should be wet, cold, uncomfortable…lay down for a change, get up high, take a ladder, do different things…” – Charles [60:05]

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9. Local vs. Travel: Valuing Homegrown Stories

• Prefers Shooting Locally:
  • Finds bottomless inspiration in Australia, noting there’s still “so much mountain to climb.”
  • While open to travel for truly untouched experiences (e.g., Arctic underwater work), is driven by the opportunity to make original images in his home country.

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10. The Role of Nature and Upbringing

• Nature as Foundation:
  • Stresses how basic closeness to nature—listening to birds, feeling the breeze—is vital for creativity, happiness, and mental well-being.
  • Looks forward to sharing this heritage with his soon-to-be-born child: “I just want them to learn home…and feel like that’s their place, that grounds them in the universe.” – Charles [63:34]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We want the normal people to appreciate our work, not just stroke other photographers.” — Charles [06:24]
• “No, nobody makes a living selling prints.” — Charles, quoting his peers [08:30]
• “If someone says, ‘You can’t do that,’ I say, ‘Well, not with that attitude.’” — Charles [13:28]
• “You cannot bullshit a small animal, big landscape shot. It is where it is and that animal is in the wild.” — Charles [41:12]
• “If you’re comfortable taking your photos and you feel happy, you’re doing it wrong.” — Charles [60:05]
• “Learn fieldcraft... if you get the money, buy the really fancy shit. Because it is really fun.” — Charles [47:00]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction / Time Zone Chat – [00:00–00:27]
• House Renovation and Dingo Project – [00:44–02:18]
• Chasing Backlit Dingo Breath Shot – [03:40–04:41]
• Appealing Beyond Photographers – [06:10–07:01]
• Making a Living: Gallery and Selling Prints – [07:36–11:02]
• Pricing, Target Audience, and Print Philosophy – [10:01–12:28]
• Upbringing, Art Influence, and Becoming a Photographer – [13:11–18:28]
• Fieldcraft over Gear – [20:00–23:10]
• Teaching/Experiencing Fieldcraft – [23:10–25:05]
• Gallery Vision and Business Model – [27:07–30:28]
• Gear & Lens Choice Philosophy – [42:34–49:57]
• Shooter’s Creative Process & Fieldcraft Priority – [31:33–36:56]
• Creative Block Advice: Get Uncomfortable – [60:05–61:01]
• Discussing Local vs. Travel Inspirations – [55:36–59:00]
• Passing on Nature to the Next Generation – [62:02–63:38]
• Wrap-Up: Where to Find Charles – [64:08–64:28]

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Resources & Where to Find Charles Davis

• Instagram: @charlesdavisphotography
• Website: charlesdavis.net

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Final Thoughts

This episode is especially rich for anyone seeking to break free from formulaic wildlife photography, grapple with the business side of art, or rekindle a passionate, purpose-driven approach to both creativity and nature connection. Charles Davis’ “do it your own way” attitude, vulnerability, and practical wisdom make this a must-listen for photographers of all stripes.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Wildlife Photo Chat. I am incredibly excited to have Charles Davis on the show. Charles, how's it going?

[B]

Good, Ray. How are you?

[A]

I'm doing good. I'm doing good. We're like, pretty much exact opposite times in the world right now. I know it's morning for you, and it's just about to have the sunset over here where I'm at in Newfoundland.

[B]

That's kind of fun, though, isn't it?

[A]

It is, yeah, it is. Yeah. You're starting today and I'm ending it, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So what have you been shooting lately? What have you been up to?

[B]

I've mostly just been renovating my house.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, we've got a baby hallway in four weeks, so it's. It's going to. It's. It's got its ups and downs, I would imagine. Like. Well, we started off with just like, let's replace the windows with something, you know, because something basic for those. For those in the world that don't know. Australia has the worst houses in the world.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

For. For a developed country, like, more people die of cold in Australia than they do in Sweden, and that's like a true statistic. Wow. So we thought we put double glazing and triple glazing in, and, you know, we put in a few windows, and then we're like, oh, maybe we'll poke that lint. And, oh, my finger's gone through it. And, yeah, maybe we'll grab that stud and oh, it's crushed in my hands. And, oh, house is full of termites.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

You know, we've pulled down all the walls and I bought a tool belt. I've been swinging a hammer. But in between that, I've been working with dingoes for the last two years now, trying to get. Okay, trying to get one photo, but it's turning into a bigger thing. Um, yeah, so they're just up the road. It's pretty cool. Um, they're the same ones that we film for National Geographic, the BBC, David Attenborough. So they're pretty famous, but there's a lot of things that just haven't been captured. And. Yeah, it's just so easy. It's just up the road, 45 minutes, so it's like, oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah, that's really cool. So let me ask you then, when you've spent so much time with something, what is it? Is it basically behavior and unique things you're trying to capture at this point, is that what kind of keeps it fresh and keeps you going Back.

[B]

Yeah. Like, there is. There's one behavior. Like, they'll. They're pretty unique in this one spot where they'll. They'll take on a kangaroo my size as a pack. And like, every now and then, you just see, like, two dingoes at the same time just flying at his head. And he's like, claws and everything, and it's all very even, you know, you don't. You don't feel like it's an uneven fight.

[A]

Yeah. At all.

[B]

Which is cool. And. Yeah. Just trying to capture that. But, like, on the sides, you're like, oh, well, maybe I should get this shot, you know, or maybe I should get that shot. And, like, the other day, I took. I took one of the builders out because he was pretty curious and. Okay, that was a nice thing to do. And, yeah, we. We take E bikes out because it's the only way to keep up with them while they're hunting.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

So you strap all your camera gear to your back and you just floor it on the E bike.

[A]

Oh, that's fun.

[B]

Just a crazy way to take photos. Yeah, it is fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, you know, you drop the bike and you just start running until you get into position. But it's not.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

I don't really photograph like, normal people, I guess.

[A]

No, it sounds way more interesting.

[B]

Yeah, it's very fast, and it's. It's probably more like hunting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah, but. Yeah, that's how I grew up. But, yeah, I took him out, and we saw this dingo. It was, like, getting cold now because I live in the mountains, and this young dingo was howling, and you could see the breath just coming out of my mouth with every howl. And I was like, I need that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I went out the other day, and then, sure enough, so young dingo got on a rock, and he was kind of asleep, and I got the sun to his back, and everything was looking pretty good, and the air was cold, and I went. And he got up and just started letting it out. And I got this shot with just this breath going out in bursts. Every time he dropped his voice and raised it all the way to the corner of the frame, and I was like, yes, that's it. Yeah. So just like shot after shot after, like that. You see it and you want it and you need it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something so special, too, about getting that backlit, glowing breath of any animal. You know, I've gotten it with birds and stuff before, and it's still. It still kind of Fascinates me every time. And it's nothing too, you know, I mean, we know how it happens. It's pretty straightforward. But just seeing it and capturing it in photo or video, it's. It's still damn cool, isn't it?

[B]

Oh, you need so many things to align to get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, yeah, like, it is. It is simple, but also just so hard to get. Totally. Everything has to line up just right.

[A]

A little breeze and it doesn't work.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Or like the. The animal just doesn't push it hard enough and it just kind of wafts up like a fart, you know, like it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, you need. You need that power behind it and. And it's the only way, or one of the only ways I've seen to get noise, like real noise into a photo, not grain.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, exactly. Yeah. No, I totally know what you mean. And I don't know, you know, I think it's probably a little different with mammals, but it's really interesting the few times I've captured it with birds, the way it comes out sometimes it almost gives this appearance of musical notes, which is really fascinating. And so it's just kind of like this. Exactly what you said, capturing this audible thing in a still frame, which is pretty impossible any other way. Right?

[B]

Yeah, totally. And like, you show that to someone there, it's like, oh, I get that.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Super satisfying.

[A]

It sort of. I think it piques the interest of, you know, non photographers more than just a standard portrait would sometimes because of the. That visual.

[B]

That's, that's. That's the thing we want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, we want. We want the normal people to appreciate our work, not. Not just stroke other photographers.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. Or I do. At least that's my job.

[A]

Yeah, I totally agree. So that's a great segue into a question I'd love to hear your answer on, which is, what else do you do? What else do you seek out to try and make that happen, to try and transcend just other photographers and people in the know appreciating it and getting to that quote, unquote, general audience.

[B]

So I should probably start off with, like, how, for those listening, like, when wildlife photographers often meet up, they never talk about cameras. I find they. They always ask, how do you make a living? That's usually the question that comes up.

[A]

And you hang out with very different people. All of them talk about cameras to me.

[B]

Do they?

[A]

All right,

[B]

well, like, so my fundamental goal in life, at least for the last few years has been to win the Wildlife Photography Year awards.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just because I want to be the best in the world for a year. So nothing big. Just keep it simple.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I've been in it the last three years in a row. And the last time I went, it's in London, if people don't know. Like, in the Natural History Museum, it's pretty swanky. You have dinner under a giant blue whale skeleton. All the fancy people turn up. But, like, I was chatting to a whole lot of heavy hitters. Like, one was on the COVID of National Geographic right then and there, and the other one had, like, won it the year before. And, you know, that question came up, how do you make a living? And they said. Oh, they said the same thing. They said, stock photography and photo tours. And they're like, well, how do you make a living? And I was like, I just sell prints. And they're like, I'll try not to swear, because Australians do that a lot. Yeah. They're like, get out. Yeah.

[A]

I would have the same reaction.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, no, nobody makes a living selling print. So I was like, that's all I do. I. I have a gallery. I have five stuff.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Print them big. We do it nice. We do limited editions. And, you know, that. That's. That's my bread and butter. And I. I think I came into it just going, well, that's what photographers do, isn't it? Like, they. They. They do big prints. And I. I never really hung out with other photographers, so I never fell into that sort of mainstream way of making a living now. And sure, I kind of just threw bullshit to everything else that says, you can't. You can't make a living off your work just selling his prints. And I just went, why not? Like, you know, and you guys, like, I'm sure it's the same in all Western countries. We have these shops where you go to, like, furniture shops. And you go in there and they got this crap canvas.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

A Highland cow. Or for us, like, a really bad photo of a koala or a cockatoo or something that shit. And someone buys that.

[A]

That's crap.

[B]

Like, what if I do an absolute banger photo? Do it well, do it nice, and sell it for 20 times the price. Like, yeah, yeah. People like that. And people appreciate it.

[A]

I was just gonna say, but I think initially that seems like the challenge, what you just said. Sell it for 20 times the price. How do you connect with the audience that does actually appreciate it and doesn't just want the cheapest thing possible. Because they don't know any better. Right. They can't see the difference. Or can they?

[B]

Well, this is where. So when. So we, Ray and I were actually meant to have a chat years ago, weren't we? During the spicy cough or Covid or whatever you want to call it. We call it spicy cough in Australia.

[A]

Oh, fun.

[B]

Or the pangolin plague. And yeah, we were meant to have that chat then. And I just started up my gallery and I think a lot of businesses really struggled back then. And the reason I did quite well during that period because my clients, I price my pitches high enough that they kind of just price out the bull. And like.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The people who are coming in, they, they like, if they're happy to spend eighteen hundred dollars on a picture, like, they're happy to spend two and a half grand on a picture.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like, they don't, they don't, they don't argue about the price. They're just. Yeah, yeah, yeah, honey, let's do it. We'll put it in the Tesla. It'll be great. Yeah. And, and you know, like, you don't need everybody to be a customer. You just need enough people.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And if you're selling for enough, it's just like, just sell one print a day rather than a whole lot of little ones. And really. Yeah, yeah. Shocks here. Yeah, it's the, it's sadly, it's the, it's the people with less money who really tighten their purse strings. But like the, the wealthy people out there, they just, they just buy stuff. They don't care.

[A]

It's almost a status thing at some point, right?

[B]

Yeah, it's status thing. And also, like, they just have the money so they can.

[A]

And so they appreciate good.

[B]

They can. Yeah, that's right. And, and, and you, you, you also need to price. Like this is the worst thing I see in our industries that you have someone and they go, oh, this canvas. I don't need canvas, by the way. But like this canvas. $200 to make. I'm going to sell it for $400. And you're like, but you're not selling canvas, you're selling your picture. Like, sure, yeah. Add a thousand to that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then put the cost on top. Because you're selling your work, you're selling your hard work, you're selling your time, you're selling your art, your creativity. All that equipment you had to buy. Yeah. All that. Like, yeah, don't, don't, don't sell yourself short. And don't be freaked out that you're not gonna win or achieve it. Like, you won't get everybody. You just need to get a few people, and that's. That's where it is.

[A]

That's so awesome to hear. Did you know that's the way you wanted to make a living when you decided, I'm gonna try and do this full time? Is that. That's where your head was at and that's the direction you went? Or how did you get to that point of deciding, I'm gonna sell prints and like you said, not falling into the trap of what myself and everybody else is doing?

[B]

Yeah, well, I am. I am first and foremost just. Just a rebel and everything I hate.

[A]

Okay, rules.

[B]

Maybe that's the Australian in me. I don't know. But I. You know, if someone tells me to do something, I'm generally going to do the opposite, so.

[A]

Nice. I can appreciate that.

[B]

Like, if they're like, you can't do that. Like, there's a saying in my family that there is no word, such word as can't. And then the other one is that really annoys people. And I love saying it is if someone says, well, you can't do that. And I say, well, not with that attitude.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And, yeah, that really stops people. And they're like, what? What did you just say? Yeah, you're just not trying hard enough or thinking outside the box. Like, it's all possible. But I was a snow bum, and I was snowboarding all over the world, and I never thought I'd be a photographer. That was never, ever something I thought about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was very good at art at school, and I was terrible at maths, terrible at English. Always pretty creative. Always had a good sense of imagination. Always pretty good in the bush. Grew up on a big sheep farm, which I still live on with my wife.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So half of it's sort of like national park, I guess, like private national park. It's about. Oh, nice, 5,000 acres. So growing up with that in your backyard's like, pretty nice. You know, I grew up watching eagles and hunting things with my father and my grandfather, and my grandfather and my aunts are all painters. So I had that artistic flair in there already.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they always made it feel very okay to be an artist. But. Yeah.

[A]

Which is helpful. Like, that's the thing, right? That. That's kind of.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, no.

[A]

You kind of need that, right?

[B]

People say it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. You need people to say, being an artist is okay. And like, you went back 200 years ago being an artist was a respectful job, and now it's like, oh, that's cute. Do you make a living out of that? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. The attitudes are very different now, and there's so many people that just, like you said, kind of laugh at it at first. And it's like, man, I don't know about you, Charles, but if you kind of just realize, like, if money isn't everything, and you don't really kind of care about that, and you can just make a living doing this stuff that you love, I mean, that's a happy life.

[B]

Absolutely. And, like, you need to find a job that you would do even if you're rich. Like, I would still be doing exactly the same thing I'm doing every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. Oh, yeah. So I was snowboarding a lot, and I wasn't very good at it. I was really good at hurting myself, and I got a bit over it, and I picked up a camera and a few lenses from a snowboard photographer mate called Phil Tifo, who's really good photographer, still is. And just. Just a couple lenses, Nikon lenses. And then I bought a nikon body, a D90. And that was my first big boy camera. And I quickly went through the process in my mind. I was like, I could photograph snowboarding, but if you photograph snowboarding, you're not snowboarding. So that's. And I was like, maybe I'll go chase these eagles and bears and stuff, Because I was in Squamish at the time.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I turned to my housemate, and I was like, where's all the eagles and bears at? And he's like, the dump. And I was like, yep, yeah, yeah. You want all the majestic stuff, Go to the dump. And I was like, okay. So I went to the dump, and there's just eagles everywhere.

[A]

And I was like, yeah, okay.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

That's funny. What's that area? Stunning, by the way. I love it there.

[B]

Pretty. Like, yeah, just ridiculous. Like, someone made it up. And. Yeah, it's just ridiculous. And. And everybody there is a freak athlete. Like, totally. They're all pro rock climbers, pro mountain bikers.

[A]

Well, I was just gonna say I went there to do mountain bike riding, and I'm like, all right. Keep me on the easiest trails possible, because everything rated here is, like, seven times harder than everywhere else.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And, like, the kids that grew up, they're like, I've got good mates there, Kimmy and Justin. And, like, they were both pro snowboarders, and their kid Xavi is just a freak. Like, yeah, he's so good at everything, but everyone around him is so good at everything.

[A]

So he's just exactly. You just sponge it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And then I came home to Australia and came back to the farm and I had like a Sigma 150-500-mil lens. And it was just easy because I knew all the animals so well and I knew how to get close to them and I knew how they operated and, and I knew where I needed to be and like all those fundamentals that I grew up with, you know, how to stalk, how to be quiet, how to not to let them know you're there, where they hide, what they do, it all just clicked. And I was like, cool, I'll just keep taking photos. And then I was already just pretty savvy in the mountains. So I just started going to the mountains and finding animals in the snow, which in Australia is like such a weird niche thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then people around me started wanting to buy prints and I thought, oh yeah, that's cute. They've been supportive. Yep, sure. And anyway, I just kept selling more prints. More prints. And like within a short time I was making more money selling prints than I was doing my crappy retail job. So I told them to shove it and sure, that was 15 years ago and I've just been full time photographer ever since.

[A]

Kick ass, man.

[B]

Yeah, that's quite funny. I just sort of went all in and yeah, I was reading David Attenborough's Life on Air book and he had this passage in there and this is just before I quit that retail job. And he was talking about sitting on top of this mountaintop in Borneo watching the sunrise. And he had this option of going back running the BBC as a director or just doing the documentary thing. And he was like, stuff it, I'm doing the documentary thing. And I was like, stuff it, I'm quitting the job. Nice.

[A]

So great. That's so great, Charles. I want to jump back to something you just kind of touched on a little bit ago, and I want to get your opinion on this, because it's my opinion that I think it's better, it's almost better to have the amazing field craft skills first before you even touch a camera than the other way around. I feel like it's probably easier to learn the, the skill of photography so, you know, just understanding how to operate the camera and everything. And you can grow faster with wildlife photography when you already have that base of incredible field craft, just like you said, versus the other way around of somebody that just kind of loves Photography and decides I'm going to start photographing wildlife. And then they have to learn all that side of things. Because I got to say, I think just having that field, craft, skill, and understanding of your subjects is more important in the end than just the photographic skill. What do you think about that?

[B]

Oh, absolutely. You nailed it. Like, blows my mind watching other people go out and take photos. Like. Yeah. And just watching them bumble around in the bush. Like, like. The place I often go is international parks. It's public ground. And I, I, I, I dress up pretty, pretty, you know, I put camo on, you know, okay. For the dingoes and stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, and I, I blend in pretty good. And I'll often have people just walk past me and I just think it's funny as hell.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And they have no idea I'm there. But I'll watch other photographers and I'm like, you have no spatial awareness whatsoever or comprehension of how to get close to that animal. And yeah. And like, yeah, I often, like, I have people come in the gallery and they'll say, oh, I'd love to be a wildlife photographer. Like, how do I do that? And they're never prepared for what I say next. And that's learn how to hunt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you don't have to kill anything. Don't kill anything. Killing's not fun. I hate killing. But the hunting, the being in nature, problem solving, this is what people are, like, instinctively meant to do. This is the thing that makes us most happy. And I think people don't realize that, you know, they go, I really love mountain biking. I really love trail running. I really love fishing. But they're all the same thing. They're all being in nature, problem solving, and that's where we're meant to be. And if you, you know, if you get into that Zen state on a mountain bike or skiing or trail running or fishing, you know, you know, it's that, that state is when you connect with nature and start listening and stop thinking of yourself as detached from it or special and just go, oh, I feel that breeze on me. I hear that noise. Those birds have stopped. That bird's making this noise. You know, what, what do all these things mean? What does that mean to the other animals? How do they feel when that animal looks at me? What does it feel? And they do feel like they've all got emotions, They've all got personality. Some are fun, some are cheeky, some are jerks. Like, and, you know, that's, that's the other thing people need to learn is they need to embrace some emotional intelligence with their subjects and go, what does that subject feel? And what can I do in this situation to make it feel okay? And if it's not going to feel okay, can I go find something else that's more amenable? So sure. Yeah. Like, people need to learn that field craft. They need to. To learn the area. They need to learn how to move through the countryside quietly, not aggressively.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not to look at animals in a predatory way, because they know. They know if you're just staring right at them, they're like, that thing's gonna bloody eat me. Yeah, that's. That's unnerving. I wouldn't be comfortable in that situation. Yeah. And they. Yeah, yeah, you nailed it. Yeah, well.

[A]

And here's the other thing, too, I found interesting is that so many students that I work with ask me about that. They're like, you know, I'd like to learn better field craft. And, you know, a lot of these people I'm working with, you know, online, so not in person in the field, which is the only place I feel like you can teach that. I don't know. I haven't figured out myself, how do you teach that? I don't even know if you can really teach that other than it's just experience. Like, it's easy to teach somebody how to get a proper exposure. It's easy to teach somebody how to get proper focus to teach field craft. I'm like, get out there a bunch. That's my best advice. You know, like, what else do you say?

[B]

Yeah, they've got to be out there. Like, you need. It needs to be hands on, you know, and I think it's a shame for a lot of kids, like, that's where it should start, you know, they should be out in the bush learning all these fun things.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know, what, what is it? What is it? What does the leaves sound like when I step on them? What is. What does it feel like to trip on a rock or that rock's gonna be slippery when it's wet? All these fun things. Like, that's. That's what being a kid is like. It's learning how to be outside in nature safely and, you know, as a functional creature. Yeah. And I feel sorry for a lot of these people that grow up in these bubbles thinking that it's normal to be inside. And that's, you know, has so much to answer for with people feeling anxious and depressed and unhappy.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, happiness comes from just a short time just sitting in the sun Just.

[A]

It just doesn't take long.

[B]

I know it doesn't take long. Yeah. Or just listening to birds. Like in Japan, they call it bathing in nature. And. And that's a fundamental core thing that they do because it makes people happy.

[A]

There's such a simple thing of even, like, opening your window and letting those outside sounds come in, you know, those nature sounds, like you said, hearing those birds and stuff like that. It's just to. To me, it's something that simple is connecting to the outside.

[B]

Absolutely. Or just feeling the breeze on you.

[A]

Yeah. Huh. Versus, like an air conditioner. Yeah. It's just. I mean, I. I don't have one, so I don't remember the last time I've turned one on other than when I walk in a building somewhere, you know, but.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you're. You're still living in a van.

[A]

Yeah, we are. Yeah. Yep.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You.

[A]

Yeah. I was just gonna say we just

[B]

got to have no choice except to.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. We open up the windows and it's beautiful. It's like today is a beautiful day and we've had, you know, the door open all day long and the air coming in and the birds are singing right outside here. And this is, you know, we went for a mountain bike ride this morning, but this is where I work the rest of the day. And, you know, it's just. It's right there. It's connecting.

[B]

Yeah. That's just so appealing. Yeah. If I didn't do the gallery, that's what I would have done. Yeah. Just packed up, just got in the vehicle and started driving. Yeah.

[A]

I've had people ask me recently, you know, hey, have you ever thought of, like, trying to display some photos in a gallery? I'm like, that would be cool, but very difficult to do with the way I live. Not impossible. Again, just kind of like what you mentioned in the beginning, and I really like that. And actually it's a good topic to go back to, which is having that drive and just not giving up. And that's something I, you know, recognized when I started my wildlife photography career full time and left wedding photography in the past and, you know, it was like the first, I would say, I don't know, maybe three to four years. I just felt like I had to devote just basically every waking moment to this and making this succeed. And that's what I wanted. And so I did, and it worked out, you know. Did it feel that way for you as well? Like when you decided to not, you know, stick with that retail job and go in after this, was it just full on commitment?

[B]

Yeah, you got to go all in. Just. Yeah, just balls be. Yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, you can't half asset.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, yeah, you got to go all in. And you know, passion, passion makes a great business as well. Like you, you find that with any business you go into, like if the person's passionate and it's full of love and yeah. You know, effort, then, then people reciprocate to those infectious and they. Yeah, yeah, it's infectious. They want to be part of those kind of businesses and like, first and foremost with the gallery, like all my stuff, their job is to make every single person who comes through that door feel welcome and that every single person has a good time and it doesn't matter if they don't buy anything. They. They just need to have a good time. And it's a business like no other. Because I, I said from the get go it would not be a gallery of snootiness or staleness or prejudice. So we, we renovated an old dilapidated church that had been empty for 50 years and.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

I put all my life savings into it. Just put it in.

[A]

That's the commitment, dude.

[B]

And oh man, it's such a bad building, but like, it looks pretty good now. And then I took all the old timber off the farm, like, stuff I've been sitting out in the paddock for 100 years and you know, just, just built the counter out of like splintery, nasty looking stuff. But it's all rustic and. Yeah, it's gritty and yeah. Bought tree branches in like old burnt snow gum branches which are all silver and hardened and this kind of immersive and then. Yeah, it's just, it's just a different kind of gallery. You can see pictures on my website if you want. But yeah, like recently we just pulled out the old English garden out the front. So like, I hate roses. Roses. Nothing should be that spiky. But we put all native plants in that are native to the area and nice. You know, like, we pissed off the pine trees and we put eucalyptus, snow gums in and you know, it's just part of that immersiveness. Like this is, this is all stuff. And like it's funny now because like I didn't kick Jesus out. They did that. The church did.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Deconsecrated. That's a whole other topic. But we put wombats in and you know, people appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But yeah, yeah, we went all in. We made a gallery that was different and we treat ourselves more as like A second visitor center for the town. So if people come through, you know, we have this big 55 inch TV behind the counter and I just pull up Google Earth and I'm like, what do you want to see? Where do you want to go? What do you need? And we tell people where to go, like or eat here, go drink there, go around here. And if they have a good time and they're having a good time and you give them things that they didn't expect, they'll turn around and buy something, of course.

[A]

Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

[B]

And they'll buy something.

[A]

Yeah, well, and it shows you care and that just like you said. And I can hear it and just listening to you talk about it, just like you said, the passion that you have for this, you know, it's, it's obviously there and I'm sure everybody that steps foot in there realizes that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I hope so. I'm not in there every day to keep a check on this, but you know, I trust my stuff. They're pretty good.

[A]

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, the other thing that I want to make sure I talk to you about, you know, in addition to all this field craft and having that passion and that drive and being 100% all in, I mean that still doesn't work if you're a shitty photographer. And thankfully you are not. Your photography is amazing. And so how did it, how was that process of learning that side of it, the lighting, the creativity that you have, how did that come about? Was it, did that feel as deliberate for you or was that just fumbling your way through or what was your growth process like with that side of.

[B]

Yeah, it's a, it's a funny thing, that question. You can, you can come at that from a lot of different angles. Um, so, so, so when I, when I was snowboarding, we were always coached to do multiple disciplines. You know, like you'd race to focus your edging, you'd do half pipe to get good at that, you do handrails to get good at this, you do jumps to get good at that. And it'd all come together and you become a very well rounded athlete and, or in my case just hurt a lot. But with photography, like my brother in law, he's sort of a people photographer. I don't enjoy photographing people because they have opinions but you know, it makes you a better photographer. And like one of my best selling photos is like a wombat walking towards me, kind of side lit and it's beautiful. Just, just starting to Snow and it's like a big white box. And when I took that photo, I took it with a, like a 50 mil prime, which is not a wildlife lens by any means, but I shot that wombat like a bride. I just, yeah, that's, that's, that's what was in my head. I was like, come to me, pretty lady. Yeah. And, you know, it worked out beautifully because it was. I did not go about it from a traditional wildlife photographer's point of view. And. Yeah, yeah, like, and, and I've always been, you know, like, if I see someone else's work, I never try to copy it. I always, you know, back to that rebellious streak of like, how can I do that differently?

[A]

Yeah, I'm with you, dude. Yeah, I'm.

[B]

So if you are gonna copy someone, like, copy the idea, the technique, is it right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, this is a great coffee table book out there called how to Steal Art. And the whole premise of it is that you don't. No one really creates anything new. They just kind of swipe ideas of someone else.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. So, yeah, to an extent you can slap a whole lot of things together. And I think, you know, if you want to get to the talent question, talent's a funny thing. I think about this stuff a lot because, you know, like you, I spend a lot too much time outside alone. And like, like my mate Justin, he was like two time Olympian snowboarder and like we had this chat about talent one day and he's like, talent gets you to like here. If you can imagine your hand like halfway up near your. But Olympic medals are like way above your head and like raise your hand up that far again and he's like, you gotta want it. You gotta want it. You gotta want it more than anyone else. And that's the only way you get there. And like, I think I had, like, I'm not mathematically intelligent, I'm not literally intelligent, but artistically and emotionally I think that's where I hit gotcha. And, and I'm dyslexic as all hell and I was always penalized at school for all these things. You know, I'm made to feel like an idiot.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But really, like these, these are the best talents I have are being dyslexic and, you know, and maybe a little bit adhd. And those two things together make a very creative person that can see outside the box. Yeah. And see solutions to problems where others might not. And I'm very grateful to that. Even though my Brain's running at a completely different rate to my. My wife, who's quite a type. You know, it's. It's a good thing. And if you are a little bit different in the head in this world, I think you'll do great, you know, And I try to tell kids all the time. I'm like, you know, are you bad at spelling? And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, cool, That's. That's great. You gonna do great. Or. Or you're a bit adhd. You haven't got it. You just are it. And it's an advantage. You just need to learn how to funnel it.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And you'll kick everyone else's ass because you've got 10 times the energy. Someone else would. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, and. And, you know, going back to that uniqueness thing, like, that's the thing that always sort of struck me as odd is how much of the photo, as far as, you know, workshops and travel, like, people traveling and trying to basically, like you said, I wouldn't call it steal someone else's idea or photo, but emulate, like. And emulate. Like, I've seen somebody share this photo and they're like, I want this. But yet, yeah, it always seemed odd to me because I think most photographers, if you ask them, like, you know, hey, on social media and on the Internet, do you want to stand out amongst the crowd? And they would all probably answer, yes. It's like, well, why would you then want to just go copy something that somebody already did? Like, those two things don't match up at all. And yet that seems to be such. The trend is, oh, I see this photo, I want that myself, and I just doesn't match to me, you know, do you get that?

[B]

You get a bit Freudian on this, which is dangerous, but you can kind of like, you can pick out what someone's personality is a little bit by the photos they take. You know, like, you have your Pokemon collectors.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah.

[B]

I was call those people. They're like, I gotta catch them all. And like, they just tick off the shot, you know, like. Or they go traveling. Like landscape photographers. They're shocking for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they'll go to the place, they'll take the photo, stand the spot, they get the shot. Bin Bamborn Pokemon achieved. Yeah. And those people, like, it's. It's not. It's not their fault, and they're not doing anything wrong. That's a different kind of way of going about it. They, you know, like, they. They probably people who like rules and people who like things set out, you know, like, they'd probably find it very gratifying to watch a video of a square shape going in a square hole.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Whereas I would not. I'd want to put the round shape in the square hole. Yeah, yeah. And that's fine. And, yeah, I think, you know, there's people like myself who like breaking new ground, whereas others would go, that's scary. That's risky. Why would you spend $40,000 on something that's never been done?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And try and pull that off? Like, that's.

[A]

Because that's where it's fun, right?

[B]

That's where it's fun. Like, yeah, maybe that thing will tear our arm off and beat us to death with it, but let's do it anyway because it's fun and they're actually the people hang out with.

[A]

The unknown is the fun, isn't it? That's what it is. To me, that unknown is the fun and the challenge of, hey, I thought of this thing, this photo. I'll speak for myself, right? I thought of this photo. That might be possible. It's probably not, but, man, if it works, I'm gonna feel so damn good if this works out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is the same buzz that I used to get on a snowboard. Learning new tricks is like, yeah. Figuring out how to get that shot. Like, I. When I was in Tassie a few years ago, like, I spent 27 nights just trying to get one photo of a. We call it a qual. It's like a native cat jumping midair with a camera trap. And, yeah, man, I have, like, PTSD from that photo, but I bloody figured it out and I made it work. And I only got one shot in 27 days. It worked, but I still got it. And, yeah, I was pretty gratified by that. But all the shots I didn't get, they're still in my head, and I need to get that itch out of my brain. So I'll go back.

[A]

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, another thing that really stands out to me, Charles, looking through your photography is sort of the diverse approach, right? You have everything from the white background, the black background, the really close, incredibly intimate portrait, to incredibly wide, including so much scenery, hide photography, camera trap stuff, like just all of this stuff. Did you ever feel like you wanted to really isolate in on one particular style or anything? Or you love that sort of, let me just try it all approach?

[B]

Oh, no, I just let loose. Like, I like to be Honest. My favorite shots are always the big scene, beautiful landscape, beautiful everything, small animal.

[A]

What drew you to that?

[B]

Because I, I. So like, my, my grandfather was a landscape painter.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So he, he, he, he, he and I would have chats about this stuff. He's like, you know, you always have to put an S in your picture and like, you know, you should balance it out with a tree here and there. He'd be like, but you just have to push a button. I was like, yeah, but you can put a bloody dragon in there, you know, so we go back and forth in that regard. You know, it's like, who had it better?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, there was all those fundamentals. And then, like, I feel like I see a lot of landscape photos and I'm like, that's beautiful, but it needs an animal.

[A]

Yeah, that's a fly.

[B]

Yeah. Otherwise it's some Narnia esque, bloody mythical world type stuff, and that's hard to relate to. As soon as you put an animal in there, someone can connect to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it grounds the whole image. And also, like you, you cannot bullshit a small animal, big landscape shot, like, it is where it is and that animal is in the wild. And, you know, like, every part of it counts. And like, if you do tight portrait, type portrait. Type portrait. 600 mil. 600 mil. 600 mil. You could have shot that anyway. The background looks the same. Like. Yeah. If I see another tight shot of a lion's head, my God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just stop it, stop it.

[A]

I know. Just.

[B]

Yeah, make him small, put him off to the right.

[A]

Unless there's some interesting, incredible behavior. I'm 100% with you on that, man. Yeah. And I just. I don't know about you. I love. Listen, I do think there can be a great portrait, you know, and I don't pass them up when given the opportunity. But to me, there isn't the same level of puzzle solving as there is when you go small animal, big habitat. There's just so many pieces that have to line up that you, the photographer, have to make work. And I freaking love that challenge, man. It's the hardest wildlife photography I've ever done, and I love that for it.

[B]

It's so much more fun, though. Like, like, the thing goes, for the first few years, I was just using long lenses, like 500 mil. And now when I go out, I take like the. I've got that. It's probably the best bird lens in the world, I'd arguably say. Is that 600 F4 with the built in TC?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So you're shooting at like 845.6. So I take that. But the other one I have in the bag at the same time going is the 24 to 120. And I try and take as many shots as I can at 24mil now of dingoes and like, nice. That just takes it to a whole other level. Cause you spend like an hour crawling on your stomach through thistles and you're like, I'm gonna get this. And that's so much more fun. And yeah, I really enjoy doing that. And like, there are days I've gone out with just a 24 mil prime and I'm. So I'm just going to use this lens today.

[A]

Yeah, dude, I'll tell you, my favorite lately has been this Nikon has this 28 to 400 and I take it with me and I don't even have to think about what I want to shoot. I can shoot everything with it. You know, I'll show it all, doesn't it? This wide scene and then slam it to 400 and get this tight portrait without having to move. And I'm just. And it. And the best part why I love it so much is it's so light. It's so tiny and compact and light. And if you would have asked me four years ago if I would love a lens like that five years ago, I'd be like, hell no, man. Because I was all about like the big telephoto prime. And I still have one. I still have my 428. I love it. But you know, it's just so weird to think that I went from this sort of prime only elitist sort of mindset to now I'm shooting like this cheapish, you know, all in one zoom, but absolutely having a blast with it. I would have never guessed that. But here I am.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And like the predecessor to that Lens was the 28 to 305.6, I think. Yeah, you could say that. That lens, that lens made me more money than anything else I've ever owned. No, it's like a twelve hundred dollar lens in Australia. Yeah, right. You said it like it does all the things. You're like, you're out there and it's like, boom, I'm going really wide. Boom, I'm going really tight. It's really small. I can walk further. I got more shots.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. All of a sudden your subjects cooperative and here you are shooting it at the widest focal length that you never expected you would.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, like, most people don't care how sharp your image is. Like, I know that's making a whole lot of photographers out there shudder right now, but care about noise or grain or anything. Like, like one of our best selling images is 1 megapixel and is pixelated all hell and it's underexposed and it's noisy and people don't care because they just like it.

[A]

You know, it needs to meet a certain bar, right. It needs to hit a certain level of quality. It can't be so soft it hurts your eyes when you look at it. Unless that's the intention. Right. Like there is a level there, but. But beyond that, it's just such a. You know, and I hate saying it, but it's just such a waste of time to worry about all that shit.

[B]

Yeah, people get too hung up on that stuff. Like, it, it. I always tell people, like, I'll do classes to Nikon sometimes, and I always make sure I end the class with the most important thing is that you're having fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And your photos are for you and everyone else can get stuffed. Right? Yeah. You take the photos that make you happy. If you want to photograph Rusty Nails, go.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and to that end, if it does make you happy to sweat the megapixels and the absolute fine detail sharpness, then I guess who am I to say, you know, you shouldn't. Right. And I'm not trying to say that. I just, I just always sort of, I think, just like, you want to share with those that are learning, like, hey, maybe you don't need to get hung up on this, you know, like, sure, be aware of it. But don't get stuck by that. Don't get, you know, frozen in your creative growth by the fact that you don't have the highest megapixel or the sharpest lens out there. Like, just go shoot. And back to what we said in the beginning. Learn that field craft.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Learn that field craft. And then, you know, if you get the money, buy the really fancy shit. Because it is really.

[A]

Hell yeah. That's why I have it too.

[B]

Yeah. But it's, it's. It's gear for certain days as well. Like, Like I. I'm quite lucky, you know, Like, I have Nikon behind me and, and I do have all the fancy stuff. Like I have two Z9s. I have a Z8, I have that 600 F4, I have the 402.8. But I also have, you know, their cheapest telephoto lenses, that 180 to 600, and that thing is better on the day that I need it than anything else I could have. And I will take that lens, even though I have. It's infinitely more expensive. Big brothers. I will take that lens because it will get me the shot and it will give me the flexibility and the versatility I need. So the gear for the day is the best gear you'll have and just make a great.

[A]

Yeah, no, 100% agree. And it is so interesting when you are. And I'll put myself in that same group. Right. I'm lucky enough to be able to have, you know, 17 lenses sitting in the back of my van here to choose from. And the interesting thing is, like, each one of them does have a purpose. I grab a different one for different needs and not one of them. And this is the other important part. Not one of them does everything the best. There is not a reason I have all them and I still use them all. You know, they're just.

[B]

They're just tools at the end of the day.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Like, very shiny, expensive tools, but, like, tools. They're just tool. I. And, like, when you start out photography, like, the gear envy is palpable.

[A]

Like, so tall.

[B]

Oh, man, I. I feel like that so much. Yeah. But, you know, once. Once you get that gear, I feel nothing. Like, nothing. Yeah, I just. I just think about the shots I can get with it and, you know, is. Is that, like, the only reason I. I got the 600F4 was because I needed that extra reach. And that thing just locks on to really fast subjects. Yeah, really tight and fast. And. And that's its predominant purpose, you know. And the 402.8, that thing you cut your eyeballs on. How sharp the photos are.

[A]

So crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it's so crazy sharp. And.

[A]

But then let me ask you in the translation, in the translation to a print, in the end, do you notice that?

[B]

Yeah, no, not really. It's More like the 402.8 is good for really dark things. If it's a tricky subject and it's really dark and I need that thing just to lock on, it's good for just that very finite section of the world. That's what I take it for.

[A]

Well, let me ask you this another way. I'd love to hear this answer. Do you ever pick a lens based on how you think it's going to look in your gallery, or does that not cross your mind? You just go pick a lens based on what you're trying to create?

[B]

It's what's gonna get me the shot. Like, I love it.

[A]

Yeah, that's cool.

[B]

So. So, like, I. For the underwater stuff, because it's. Because I do that as well now. It's. I have two lenses because everything underwater, for those birders out there that will never go underwater, everything is shot at the widest zoom range. So for me, it's always at 14 mil. Everything you take underwater really wide, you, like up in its face and you shot really wide to decrease the amount of water and rubbish in the water as possible. So I have a 14 to 24 2.8. That's the nice lens.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know, price wise. And then there's the 14 to 30 F4.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And when we went to the Falklands back in December, I took the cheaper one because I could put a filter on that one and do split shots. And that was the better lens because that was the lens that was going to do the job. And the shots I came back with, you know, like, I got told not to take an ultra wide on that trip, which was quite funny by a mate I respect quite well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the two best photos I got were both at 14 mil. So is one that albatross shot?

[A]

Like, I just love that, by the way.

[B]

No, it wasn't the albatross shot. It's. It's two images I refuse to put on social media because I'm saving them up a call.

[A]

Oh, good for you. One.

[B]

One was, like, right on top of this mountain and this caracara just belted me in the head and I've taken it a 14 mil. And it's like. It's this island that took us two years to get permission to get on it. It's called Steeple. Jason, if you feel like a little Google Earth trip, you'll go to the weirdest place you'll never set foot on. Um. And, like, we were the only people on this island, only 10 people set foot on it. And. And we're down the bottom of this hut and I'm looking up at this jagged peak above us. It's like 300 meters up. And, you know, we'd been hit in the head by caracaras for, like, the last day. And they're, like, picking at your shoes and trying to eat rivals and everything. Like, you knew if you passed out out there, they'd just devour you.

[A]

Cheese.

[B]

And I'm looking up at this thing and I'm like, that thing looks jagged as all hell. I reckon. I reckon. And I turned to Matty and I Was like, I reckon if I climb that thing I could put a leg on either side of it and you could see the whole island. So we put his drone up and sure enough got it up there and this thing just snaked away off into the distance. And I was like, wow. Oh, that's amazing. And then Karakara hit the drone and I was like, cool. And then I scrambled up there the next morning I was like bam. In the head. And I was like, yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, I got the shot and that was cool. Yeah, it was good.

[A]

That's amazing, man. Yeah, it's amazing. I love, I've been for the last year I've been having so much fun with. I bought a Laowa 10 millimeter for the full frame. And getting up in things faces with that is wild, man. It's just like when you get into that like 14 and wider focal length, the distortion is fun if you don't use it. Gimmicky.

[B]

So much fun.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's also mind blowing just how ridiculously close you have to get to stuff because you look at it with your eye and you're like, oh, I'm right next to it. And then you look through the lens and it's still tiny, you know.

[B]

Oh yeah. And it can get really dangerous as well because you like I've done it with crocodiles and like.

[A]

Have you really?

[B]

Elephant seals and stuff. Yeah. Like you like looking through the lens and you're like, I still got time, I still got time. And you put your head up and

[A]

you're like oh crap, that's right there.

[B]

Yeah, but fun. And also like the other thing with Ultra Wide is you could never photograph a person with one of those lenses. Correct. You would wig people out. They'd go all fat and weird.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You don't know what people look like. You do that to an animal. It just gets fun. Uh huh.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had a caribou stick its nose into the lens and then the shot right before that, it's just like its head is huge and its body is all tiny. It's got these tiny little legs so like the proportions are distorted. Just ridiculous. So it turns into these like fun, comical looking proportions on these animals that don't make any sense. And, and you know, listen, I don't want to shoot everything like that, but yeah, it's a fun, unique thing to do and cool. When you can just be that close to animals when they tolerate you, right?

[B]

Oh yeah, absolutely. And like if you know, you don't. Yeah, you're right, you don't want to do all your shots like that, but it's so good to have that in your quiver. And like, those, those shots win awards because they're so different and they're so hard to get. And, and you really need to be up in that animal's face. And like, you know, you could never photograph an animal that's freaked out like that. You know, it has to be on its terms. And, yeah, people just know that instantly. They look at it and they're like, yeah, yeah, that animal is fully in control of the situation.

[A]

Correct? Yeah, yeah. So my last question to you before we wrap up this lovely conversation is, do you prefer to shoot locally or travel? Do you have a preference?

[B]

Oh,

[A]

so

[B]

I would quite happily just shoot in Australia for the rest of my life. Like, it's apparently quite a big place, despite what the map says, very big. And it's funny, you know, I talk to other photographers and they're like, oh, I'd love to go to Borneo, I'd love to go to Africa or whatever. I'm like, what? You feel like everything's been done in Australia. Like, we've only just, we've only just started climbing this mountain. And, like, I see opportunities everywhere. I see so many opportunities that I do not have enough lifetimes in my head to get it all done. Um, so, yeah, I, I, I don't mind traveling. Like, going to the Falklands last year was a bit of a stretch, but at the same time, there were kind of Australian type critters as well, because elephant seals are here and the Gentoos and stuff. Yeah. And like, you know, I did think about going to Chile and doing pumas and stuff, but then again, everyone else does it and that just annoys me. So what's the point? Or going to Africa and I'm just like, oh, man, that's just, it's just everybody else is there and you're competing with people who've been doing that their whole lives.

[A]

Do you feel like, though, in that circumstance you could put your own spin on it, you could put your own stamp on it that would be unique? Or does it just seem like, because I'm the same way, man, I feel the exact same way about these really famous places. And then every once in a while I think to myself, I'm like, yeah, but maybe that's the challenge, right? That's the big challenge is go to these places that have been done to death and try and come away with something unique. But, you know, I don't know I always go back and forth on that same thing myself.

[B]

Yeah. Like, lately I've been having my eyes opened a bit because I'm such a recluse in the photography world. Like, I never go out with other photographers. I generally hang out with cinematographers.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Because we have similar interests and we don't cut each other's grass, but sure, you know, like that. I've been doing a few trips with some underwater photographer mates and they're. They're very heavy hitters in the industry. Like, they, you know, they. They win WPY categories and stuff as well, and. And going to places with them and shooting exactly the same thing and coming back at night and going, your images are completely different to mine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then having them tell me, I would have never thought of that kind of bolsters me to go, maybe I could go to somewhere else and maybe I could shoot it differently. And. Yeah, so I would like to do that. I just. For the meantime, I just sort of need to get the things out of my head and put it in the real world that I'm doing around here. So.

[A]

That makes sense. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah.

[B]

Like, next year we're looking at going to the Arctic and getting in the water up there just for shits and giggles to do something that's never been done before. And, you know, I'm excited about that. That sounds. That sounds pretty rad, you know, if it hasn't been done, I'm pretty happy to travel for it.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. If it's risky, yeah, it's good. I put a really high value on my individuality and maybe to my detriment, but, yeah, that's what, that's what spurs me to go on.

[A]

No, I completely understand that, man. I feel very similar in that regard. I feel like that's part of what keeps things fresh for me, is trying to see if I can come up with something unique, you know, and, you know, far from always successful with that. But, you know, every so often these ideas come into the head or you have the encounter or you have, you know, the weird lens connected and things line up and that happens. You get this something where at least. And I can say for myself, it's like I have excitement when I haven't seen someone else share it. Even if it's been done before and somebody points that out after, I'm like, that's cool, because at least it felt fresh to me in that moment. It wasn't something that was sort of that, you know, oh, hey, I saw this. And this is my version of it. It's just kind of the. You know, I've never seen anything like this. Let me try and make it happen. And then it comes to fruition. And again, even if it's been done before, it feels great in that moment to just kind of have it come to being for myself that way.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, like, to those. Those people out there who feel a bit creatively blocked, like, make yourselves really uncomfortable. That's. That's, like, one of my biggest tips is, like, if you're comfortable taking your photos and you feel happy, you're doing it wrong. Like, you should be wet, you should be cold, you should be uncomfortable. Your knees should hurt. Like, you know, lie down for a change, get up high for a change. Take a ladder. Like, do different things. Take a really weird lens out, Go somewhere new that you feel uncomfortable in, and watch the creativity come because you will be forced to think differently, and that will spur other things. And the more uncomfortable things you do and the more differently you have to think of things over and over and over, you. You'll come at those situations from all those different ways that you've learned, and that'll help.

[A]

Such great advice, man. It really, really is. Yeah. And, you know, I would even say it doesn't maybe always have to be physical discomfort, you know, but just make yourself uncomfortable with the way you're shooting or the style of shooting, something that you've never done before that can probably get you in the same result. Although, you know, if you add the physical discomfort, it adds some to it, doesn't it?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Everyone loves a bit of pain. Now we're sick. Don't listen to me.

[A]

So this is this. I didn't ask in the beginning, but I meant to. Is this your first child coming up?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay. So, you know life's about to change for you, huh?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like everybody with a child already is a complete sicko and just like. Is just like, your life's gonna get shit, and they just love it. They just have this little bit of Sharpen Freud kicking in. And I was like, thanks, man.

[A]

That's really helpful.

[B]

But no, like, I'm. I'm. Yeah, I really like sleep, so that's gonna be hard. But I'm excited about no Doubt showing the kid all the things, you know, outside. Like, we're like, you know, we have emus around our garden and stuff, and, like, I'm keen for them to grow up and, like, wow, look at that giant bird in the garden or that kangaroo let's go up in the bush and we'll touch different trees and I'll tell you what they're all used for and show you where the platypus are and where the echidnas go and what the wombats do. And I. I think that's going to be really fun, you know, just watching the little mines just explode. Yeah, yeah. And seeing what little sort of person they are. Like, you know, are they. You know, are they just a landscape photographer or what? I don't know. I'm guessing landscape photographers are.

[A]

Right. I'm guessing they're going to be connected to nature some way.

[B]

Yeah. In some way or another, I'm going to make sure that they appreciate everything around them. Because. Because for us, like, so I'm like sixth generation. She'll be seventh generation on this farm.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And. Or they he them. Yeah, yeah. It. That's. That's kind of nice. Like, the farm's not. Not a possession, it's not an asset. It's. It's home, it's country. And, you know, I just. I just want them to learn. Learn home. Yeah.

[A]

That's wonderful.

[B]

And feel like that's their place, that grounds them in the universe. That'd be really nice.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Charles, thank you so much for setting aside the time to chat with me. This was such a wonderful conversation and I is going to be so insightful and helpful for everybody listening. And so thank you for spending the time, man. I really, really appreciate it.

[B]

No, that's all right, Ray. Thanks for getting in contact. And yeah, it's been a really fun chat.

[A]

Absolutely. I'm glad we finally made it happen. Right. It only took a few years, but here we are. It's good.

[B]

I totally snubbed you for like, four years. Yeah. Sorry.

[A]

No, no, no. Where's the best place for people to follow your work

[B]

on the gram? So, Charles Davis Photography. Or you can go to my website, just charlesdavis.net yeah, that's. That's probably the best part. I've been a bit lax on the social media lately, but I need to ramp that back up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Or do you? I don't know.

[B]

Well, yeah, we could have a whole podcast about that. A lot of opinions on the social media.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll be the next time. We'll do this again.

[B]

Definitely. Yeah.

[A]

Excellent, Charles. Thank you again. And I can't wait to see what you continue to produce. It's amazing stuff. I really appreciate it, man. Have a great day.

[B]

Same to you, mate. I look forward to seeing what you come up with next. It's going to be exciting.

[A]

Thanks so much.

[B]

All right, see you, mate. Bye.

[A]

Hey, this is Ray Hennessey. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the conversation and got something helpful from it. I also hope you join me for the next episode. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast player and help me spread this podcast around by sharing with your friends and fellow photographers. It would also be a huge help for the podcast if you could give it a five star rating and possibly a review wherever you listen to the podcast. Thanks again and I'll see you on the next episode.