Julia Gets Wise with Alice Waters

Summary

Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus
Season 3, Episode: "Julia Gets Wise with Alice Waters"
Release Date: October 16, 2024

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Wiser Than Me™, host Julia Louis-Dreyfus engages in a profound conversation with culinary and environmental pioneer Alice Waters. The episode delves deep into Alice's illustrious career, her philosophy on food and sustainability, her experiences as a mother, and her reflections on aging and loss. Through candid discussions and shared personal anecdotes, listeners gain a rich understanding of Alice's unwavering commitment to transforming the way we approach food, community, and life.

---

1. Introduction and Personal Connections [00:01 - 08:24]

Julia opens the episode by celebrating the start of Season 3 and shares a cherished family poem written by her mother, Judith Bowles. This sets a personal and intimate tone for the conversation. She introduces Alice Waters as a trailblazer in the farm-to-table movement and highlights her numerous accolades, including seven James Beard Awards and the National Humanities Medal. Julia expresses her admiration and excitement for hosting Alice, setting the stage for a meaningful dialogue.

Notable Quote:
Julia Louis-Dreyfus: “You are the founder of the groundbreaking Chez Panisse, a Berkeley, California-based restaurant where you delved deep into the connections between environment, culture, food, and politics.” [00:50]

---

2. Daily Routine and Culinary Philosophy [12:00 - 20:22]

The conversation shifts to Alice's daily life and her culinary practices. Alice shares her commitment to maintaining an organic and sustainable kitchen, emphasizing the importance of fresh ingredients and homegrown produce. She discusses her love for gardening, with Meyer lemon trees and various herbs as staples in her household. Julia relates by sharing her own gardening experiences, highlighting the mutual appreciation for fresh, homegrown food.

Notable Quote:
Alice Waters: “I always have flowers in my house and in the moment in time. It keeps me connected exactly the way food does with where I am and time and place.” [17:33]

---

3. Motherhood and Raising Fanny [32:54 - 40:50]

Alice delves into her journey as a mother, bringing her daughter Fanny into the bustling environment of Chez Panisse. She describes how integrating family life with her professional life enriched both, allowing Fanny to grow up with a deep appreciation for food and community. Alice recounts anecdotes about Fanny’s early adventures in the restaurant, fostering a sense of responsibility and creativity from a young age.

Notable Quote:
Alice Waters: “Fanny was a child of the restaurant. I did bring her there very early on.” [36:56]

---

4. Coping with Grief and Building Community [51:28 - 57:19]

A poignant segment of the episode addresses Alice's experiences with grief following the loss of four close friends within six months. Alice shares how these losses impacted her view on life and death, leading her to advocate for green burials and a deeper connection with nature. She emphasizes the importance of community support and the role of meaningful relationships in navigating grief.

Notable Quote:
Alice Waters: “I want to be part of regenerative agriculture. I want to nourish the soil. Don’t want a casket, just in there.” [55:01]

---

5. Reflections on Aging and Wisdom [08:28 - 10:12 & 46:47 - 61:14]

Alice reflects on aging with grace and wisdom, discussing her perspective on age not as a number but as a measure of one's spirit and engagement with life. Julia and Alice explore the societal perceptions of aging, the value of intergenerational connections, and the importance of staying present and connected to one's passions and community.

Notable Quote:
Alice Waters: “Age is about how you feel about yourself.” [08:53]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus: “Pause and pay attention.” [58:55]

---

6. Victory Gardens and Early Memories [62:33 - 66:26]

The episode concludes with nostalgic memories of Victory Gardens during World War II, as shared by Julia and her mother, Judith Bowles. They reminisce about the simplicity and hope embedded in planting gardens as a patriotic act. Alice joins in, reflecting on how these early experiences shaped her commitment to sustainable agriculture and community-focused food practices.

Notable Quote:
Judith Bowles (Julia’s Mother): “I thought that if you planted your vegetables and had your family eat them, you would win the war.” [63:30]
Julia Louis-Dreyfus: “Officials reminded Americans that a well-planned victory garden was not only patriotic, but could provide a family with nutritious and tasty food.” [65:08]

---

Conclusion: A Celebration of Wisdom and Community

Throughout the episode, Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Alice Waters weave a narrative of passion, resilience, and dedication to creating a better world through food and community. Alice's stories offer listeners invaluable insights into sustainable living, the importance of nurturing relationships, and embracing the wisdom that comes with age. The conversation not only honors Alice's legacy but also inspires listeners to cultivate their own connections with food, family, and the environment.

Final Notable Quote:
Alice Waters: “Pause and pay attention. Now, of course, I'm running like crazy right now, trying to change the world.” [58:55]

---

This episode of Wiser Than Me™ is a testament to the profound impact that one individual can have on society through unwavering commitment and love for what they do. Alice Waters' journey serves as a guiding light for those seeking to make meaningful changes in their lives and communities.

Transcript

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi there. It's me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. We're back for season three of Wiser Than Me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the magnificent old ladies featured this season. To celebrate the start of season three, we've added some groovy new items to our Wiser Than Me merchandise collection. Head over to our merch shop to check out all of our great stuff, like a classic Wiser Than Me bagu tote bag, a kitchen tea towel with my Grandma De's delicious peanut butter cookie recipe featured on it, and a new, gorgeous hardcover Wiser Than Me notebook to capture all of this season's bits of wisdom. Start shopping today by visiting wiserthanmeshop.com.

[Alice Waters]

Lemonader.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

This is a favorite poem of mine. It's called Flash Frozen. Here it is. My mother grew up in a homemade world. Her mother stitched sun bonnets one stitch at a time for five little girls carried pears, beans, tomato, squash in her apron from the garden to the kitchen where steaming Mason jars with wide open mouths stood at the ready to receive. Jars lined the cool basement shelves like picture books, wild with color, waiting for another season. A huge gray pot, quiet on the stove, made soup for the week. In winter, root vegetables bounced, softened in water fragrant with the earth. Clarence Birdseye, born in Brooklyn, practiced taxidermy before joining the Department of Agriculture as a naturalist posted in the Arctic. There he learned a thing or two watching the Inuit make holes in the ice drop lines and bring up a fish frozen straight through in the blink of an eye. Clarence brought that thought home in a system that packed food into waxed cardboard cartons, flash frozen, nearly fresh. My mother's freezer was as big as a car. Thursdays were poker night. She could whip up a meal in 20 minutes once she unwrapped the box. How about that? So that was actually written by my mom, Judy Bowles. And good God almighty, I do love that poem. The grandmother who stitched the sunbonnets and carried pears and beans and tomato and squash from her garden to her kitchen was my mom's Grandma Bessie, my great grandmother. She was the original farm to table chef. Well, I mean, I guess everybody who didn't have a staff and a cook, which is most people, was a farm to table chef. Not so long ago, my mom and my sisters and I all hold Great Grandma Bessie in a kind of magical sainted place. We all really want to be a little bit more like Grandma Bessie, especially in the kitchen. I'm very lucky because my little sister Lauren lives in Los Angeles, and whenever we get together, which is very often making food delicious food is at the center of what is always a joyful time. She is a baker. I mean, a crazy great baker of amazing breads and muffins and bagels. And we are both obsessed with baking desserts. And I make things out of the food that I grow in my garden, like tomato sauce and pickles and jams and marmalades. And it's all pretty goddamn good, if I do say so myself. The thing that my mom catches really so beautifully in that poem is the physical, tactile contact with the ingredients that make meals so delicious. And the melancholy in it is the loss of that contact. Of course, the poem is about a lot more, too. Family, caring, nourishment, and other kinds of loss. You know, I've been thinking a lot about how as we speed forward and technology dominates more and more of our day to day lives, we touch the things that matter less and less. I mean, think about it. We don't hold the newspaper, we look at it on a screen. We don't put pen to paper very often. We don't rest the stereo needle carefully in the groove of a. Of a cherished record album. We're a step back, it seems, from touching things that matter. I mean, life is easier. Yeah, sure, but even when we go to a beautiful place now, we immediately stick a phone between us and the sunset. God, you know, I mean, there's a loss there, too. So maybe that's why cooking beautiful, healthy, yummy meals with my sister and her family made with vegetables and hand picked fruit right out of the garden or stuff that's carefully chosen at a farmer's market. And spending hours together, you know, working out the menu and working with our hands and our hearts means so, so much to me. Food? Mm. Yeah. I mean, it's the basic. It's the most basic thing of all. And so how lucky then that today we get to talk to Alice Water. I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. I remember what American cooking was like before Alice Waters. We ate stuff like frozen fish sticks and banquet, fried chicken, TV dinners. And those were treats. I mean, that's what we looked forward to when our parents went out to a party. It was a dark time for taste buds everywhere. But our guest today knew there was something better. She is the founder of the groundbreaking Chez Panisse, a Berkeley, California based restaurant where she delved Deep into the connections between environment, culture, food and politics by paying close attention to ingredients, not just in how they're prepared, but in how they're produced. She is a pioneer of the farm to table movement, maybe the pioneer. And most importantly, she championed the concept that food grown with care and treated with respect in the kitchen could be transformative. And of course, delicious. Our guest has served up everything from delicious haricot ver and sunripened peaches to, believe it or not, a braised pair of Werner Herzog's boots in a pot of render duck fat. We can talk about that later. It blows my mind how many renowned chefs trained with her. Basically everybody. The truth is, her impact on American cooking is immeasurable. And it doesn't stop in the kitchen. She's a tireless advocate for sustainable agriculture, food justice, and education reform. Through initiatives like the Edible Schoolyard Project, she has provided hands on experiences that connect students to food, nature, and each other while addressing the crises of climate change, public health, and social inequality. At its heart is a dynamic and joyful learning experience for every child. And you can actually download the lesson plans. Alice is the recipient of some of the highest honors in both food and life, including seven James Beard Awards, the National Humanities Medal, and the French Legion of Honor. Please join me in welcoming an author, cook, activist, mother, and woman who is, oh, so much wiser than me, Alice Waters. Welcome, Alice Waters. What a treat to have you with us.

[Alice Waters]

Thank you so much. Wonderful to talk with you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm happy you're here.

[Alice Waters]

I'm a little tearful about that introduction.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, no, no. Well, it's such a celebration. And you have so much to celebrate about yourself. And I personally am honored to talk with you today because I'm a ginormous fan of yours. Are you comfortable if I ask your real age?

[Alice Waters]

I just turned 80.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Nice. And how old do you feel?

[Alice Waters]

You know, I've never thought about age as being, you know, something I was looking forward to or something I look back on. It's strange that when this happened this year, I mean, everybody else was concerned about me. They were, well, worried that I was getting old. And I really feel like age is about how you feel about yourself. And I had a great aunt who lived to 102.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Nice.

[Alice Waters]

And she was a wonderful inspiration to me my whole life. Her whole life. And I watched how she lived.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So when you say you watched how she aged, your aunt, what are you witnessing? What are you inspired by?

[Alice Waters]

I guess I'm inspired by their joie de vivre. Yeah, they're Wanting to be present. They're wanting to communicate what they know with everybody else. And I heard so generous with that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, that's so wonderful, Alice. I have to tell you how our lives connected. So I'm very close with my sister in law who's a conservationist and environmentalist in Northern California. And she did an auction for the Trails Forever dinner that was thrown by the Golden Gate National Park Conservancy. And one of the prizes being auctioned was you and I. Because it was a hike. Yeah, it was a hike with me and a picnic by you. Honestly, I'm going to tell you right now, I don't remember anything about the hike. And I love to hike.

[Judith Bowles]

Okay?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm a big hiker. I don't remember a thing. But I remember that goddamn sandwich was so good, Alice. And it was asparagus and prosciutto. It was on a baguette. There may have been butter, there may have been arugula, this I can't recall. But all we did was talk about this sandwich. I'm not kidding you. I don't remember a thing about the hike. And it was a big hike. So then I went home and I tried to recreate it and it was complete crap, what I made. It was terrible.

[Alice Waters]

Well, that's because.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Tell me.

[Alice Waters]

I think it had aioli on it. Garlic. Garlic mayonnaise. And we make that with wonderful olive oil and a real sweet garlic. And garlic is a main ingredient, not only for taste, but for health. Have you seen the film Garlic is as good as 10 mothers?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No, but I'm going to watch it tonight.

[Alice Waters]

Okay. Les Plank made a film called Garlic is as good as 10 mothers.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's a great title. So you made a garlic aioli. I'm going to now try this again because everything was off. The prosciutto was off, the asparagus was too stringy, you know, whatever. But I did try anyway. This is. This is how much I loved it. I have so much work to do today because I'm going to do this garlic mayonnaise. You know, you are known, of course, for making the everyday experience elevated. So I wanted to dig into your daily routine. For example, what do you have for breakfast?

[Alice Waters]

Well, I always have my puer tea because I had high cholesterol. And I asked all my friends what I should do, and I had many of them tell me, drink the fermented puer tea, a Chinese tea, a dark tea, and eat whole grains. And I absolutely was rigidly adherent to that prescription. And my cholesterol went down 100 points.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Get the hell out of here.

[Alice Waters]

No, really. It really did.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Wait a minute. Did you take medication, too?

[Alice Waters]

No, I didn't want to take medication.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Fucking God. I can't believe what I'm hearing.

[Alice Waters]

That's true. And now I've become kind of a Puerto salesperson.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

How do you spell Puerto? Cause I'm getting it from my husband.

[Alice Waters]

E, R, H, H. Puertie.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Is it tasty?

[Alice Waters]

I think it is. I make it very dark. I used to be a kind of Francophile. In my breakfast, I drank a cafe au lait. I had a piece of toast with some jam. That kind of early morning, and now when I'm drinking that tea, I want something savory. So I had this morning, I had a little bit of salad, but I scrambled an egg.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Do you still cook each day? Do you plan your meals?

[Alice Waters]

Well, I always want to have the ingredients at my house, so I can cook something if I need to or want to. So I always have salad. I always have great farm eggs. And a lot of this I just get from Chez Panisse because I want everything from my organic, regenerative farmers.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

The things that I have to have at home are salad and fruit, and I want Meyer lemons, and I have a tree out back. I have herbs all in my backyard, so I can always get rosemary and sage and fry them. I can always make something tasty at the last minute.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I have a Meyer lemon tree, too, and it is such an unusual taste. And I always have lemon water in the morning. And if my Meyer lemons are ripe, I have my Meyer lemon water, which is an elevated lemon water experience. There's just no way around it. And I just recently, by the way, going off topic a little bit, I just started to make ice cream, and I made lemon ice cream. And I now I'm thinking, ooh, I'm excited to try to make Meyer lemon ice cream, because I think that'll be yummy. Right?

[Alice Waters]

Guess what? 53 years ago. No, 52. Not in the first year of Chez Panisse, Lindsay, who was the pastry chef at Chez Panisse, started making Meyer lemon ice cream and Meyer lemon sherbet. And I have to say that that was a wake up not only for us in the kitchen, but for everybody who came to Chez Panisse. It was the dessert that they wanted again. And it was a long season, so. And we got them from people who brought them or exchanged them for a lunch at the restaurant. They would bring them from their backyard tree. I loved it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

God, I Wish I lived near you. I would bring you Meyer lemons just so that I could eat that right now. You describe beauty as an essential life force. By the way, I put my dahlias here today for you.

[Alice Waters]

I saw those first off.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Good. I'm so happy you notice them.

[Alice Waters]

First thing I thought, oh, how beautiful.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Thank you. Oh, that makes me happy. Then mission accomplished. Because those are from my garden and I just wait every year for those things to pop up. And they're going crazy right now. And I'm going to post a picture of this on our social so people can see. But you describe beauty as an essential life force. How do you bring beauty into your life every day? Is there a practice that you have? I think you're very like me. You're very into flowers. But talk to me about that.

[Alice Waters]

Well, I always want flowers in my house and of the moment in time. I don't want tulips in the middle of the winter.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Alice Waters]

And the lilacs, I want them just in the spring when they're happening. And it keeps me connected exactly the way food does with where I am and time and place. It's all of those subtleties that I'm so connected to.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Have you always been like that?

[Alice Waters]

Well, when I was little, my great aunt and my mother used to go out always in the spring and in the fall to look at the trees. And we would drive on roads all in north New Jersey and see these glorious explosions of flowering trees and bushes. And we had a hedge of lilacs that I always wanted to go by. But that's kind of, I think, been in my life since I was very little. And of course, everybody had victory gardens during the war. And I'm sure that that really gave me a taste for strawberries and corn and tomatoes that I'll never, ever forget. Those are really hot weather vegetables and fruits. And no matter how delicious ours are here, not quite as good as New Jersey.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And isn't it interesting, too, how smells can be. So as you're talking about, like the lilacs and the tomatoes, and I'm growing tomatoes right now. And the smell of a tomato plant is very specific. You know, when I'm nipping the leaves that I don't want there, my hands get that. My hands get that smell. And I love that smell.

[Alice Waters]

I think. You know, I'm a Montessori teacher.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

And I was trained in London in 1968. And she, of course, believed way back in the 1880s that our senses are the pathways into our mind. And I think, of course, in this tech world that we live in that we're all sensorily deprived because we aren't touching and smelling and tasting and listening to things that are beautiful and looking at the world, the nature around us.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, totally. Totally. There's even more wisdom from Alice Waters coming up after this break. Okay, guys, in case you missed it, food waste is a huge freaking problem for the planet. And a while back I found out about a new invention that's supposed to help solve it. It's called the mill food recycler. And I gotta tell you, I am a believer. First off, it's insanely easy. It takes almost anything that comes out of your kitchen. And I mean, seriously, we're talking avocado pits, a whole Thanksgiving turkey carcass and you just drop them in the mill and well, that's it. It works overnight while you sleep. You don't even have to think about it. You can keep filling your mill for weeks on end and it never smells, not even a little. It shrinks everything way down into these clean, dry, nutrient rich grounds. And you can mix them with your potting soil to feed your home garden. Or if you're kind of indoorsy, then get this mill can have your grounds picked up from your home and sent back to farms to create more food. I am so into mill that I've actually become an investor. It's made my life better and I think it stands a chance of making the world a little better too. Go to mill.com wiser to get $100 off your purchase of mill. We're not talking small change again, that's mill.com wiser for $100 off. Fall is finally here and with it comes all those cozy, comforting flavors we love. Green Chef makes it easy to enjoy the season with delicious, clean meals delivered straight to your door. They're the number one meal kit for eating clean. That means every box is packed with fresh organic produce and responsibly sourced proteins. Green Chef's recipes are designed to be easy with pre prepped ingredients and meals ready in 25 minutes or less. Plus they offer meal plans for every lifestyle like keto, Mediterranean, plant based and more. Let's read from this week's menu, shall we? Green Chef users can select the savory and colorful Southwest pork and rice stuffed peppers with corn, red peppers, Monterey Jack and chimichurri. Or the creamy shrimp primavera with spaghetti squash, tomato, peas, parmesan and sunflower seeds. That one's gluten free too. Or perhaps the protein packed herbed organic chicken and apricot sauce that comes with pesto kale, roasted fingerling potato and cabbage salad. It's finished with a little sprinkling of feta cheese. Can't get yummier than that. And if you're craving something extra, check out Green Market. It's loaded with grab and go breakfasts, quick lunches and snacks that fit perfectly into your day. Go to greenchef.com wiser50 and use code wiser50 for 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next two months. That's code [e-mail] wiser50 to get 50% off your first box plus twenty percent off your next two months. This show is sponsored by Macy's. Thanksgiving morning wouldn't be complete without the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. This year marks the 96th annual annual parade live from New York City. There's something so special about waking up to those huge, colorful balloons making their way through the city streets. It's like a little bit of magic filling up your living room. And it's the perfect start to the holiday before all the cooking and festivities get underway. This year's parade is even more exciting with Minnie Mouse making her debut as a brand new balloon floating down the streets of New York alongside all the other iconic characters. And it's not just about the balloons and floats. There are incredible Broadway performances, marching bands from across the country, and of course, Santa himself closing it out to kick off the holiday season. So grab your family, cozy up and make the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade part of your Thanksgiving tradition. To learn more about the parade and what's in store this year, visit macy's.com parade I was watching you talking on the with Julia Child and you made the mushroom and fennel and parmesan salad with olive oil and lemon. And I thought, and I was at the market yesterday and I, I thought, oh God, I'm gonna try that. That looks so divine. And so I, I bought the fennel and the mushrooms and I took it home and I started to, I don't have a mandolin. So I started to slice as thin as I could and then I had a bite of fennel and I thought, oh shit, I, I hate fennel. I'd forgotten that I hate fennel. I don't like the taste of licorice.

[Alice Waters]

I know I could get you to love fennel, but you need to get a little Japanese mandolin because that is an essential little equipment that I have from my kitchen. I have a mortar and a pestle and I have a mantolin they're very inexpensive. You have to be careful that you do it slowly, see? But it's not like the big French one that's hard to use and you really could hurt yourself. But when you eat a big chunk of fennel, I wouldn't want that. But if it's shaved thinly and mixed with greens and a great vinaigrette on it with garlic, it's delicious like that because it's a little tone of an herb.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think what's becoming quite clear to me is that is there any house in your neighborhood for sale? Because I have to move next to you. You have to be my neighbo.

[Alice Waters]

I have to go find you a house.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I need a house, Alice. I need a house next to you. Did you get to know Julia Child?

[Alice Waters]

You know, I did. I knew her from year two, maybe, near one of the restaurants. And she came and she had the fixed price dinner, because that's all we had at the beginning. Yes, 3.95 for four courses. And you had to eat them, right?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

$3.95 to be.

[Alice Waters]

Yes, yes. And when I come over to the table, she said to me, this is not a restaurant. This is like eating in somebody's home. And I think she meant it a little bit as an insult.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No.

[Alice Waters]

But a little bit of, what are you doing? And I thought it was the greatest compliment. The greatest compliment. And then we became good friends after that. And she always acted as sort of a big sister to me in that respect. The one show that we did together, I was just so embarrassed that I was doing something so foolishly simple. But she was so generous about, oh, it's so fascinating, Ella. How do you crack an olive open? When she knew perfectly, perfectly well how to do that, I didn't. And I'm acting like that is something special. I'm communicating to people. And it was so tender the way that she took care of me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I have a Julia Child confession story because I live in Santa Barbara, where, of course, she lived at the end of her life.

[Alice Waters]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And she was very close friends with our neighbor at the time, Dal Delarmy. And she would often, of course, as I'm sure it happens with you as well, people would send her food, people would send her meat. And Dal, our neighbor, was a wonderful barbecuer, and so she would bring meat to him and then he would barbecue it, et cetera. And so one day our neighbors said, oh, Julia's coming over tonight for a cocktail. Come over for a cocktail. And I said, oh, okay. This is by the Way, this is quite a long time ago and our kids were really young, you know, this, by the way, does not reflect well on me. So just heads up about that. And so then it, you know, it was around that time and I was like, oh, my God, I can't go to somebody's house. We've got too much to do, and the kids and blah, blah, blah. And we didn't go.

[Alice Waters]

We didn't go.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And I, I'm gonna tell you that if somebody said to me, do you have any regrets in your life? That would top the list because we didn't go and we missed a chance to meet that icon and good human being. So anyway, I'm confessing to you, my priest, Alice Waters, and I hope that you're gonna tell me that you forgive my sin.

[Alice Waters]

I do forgive your sin because I understand completely about taking care of a child and a family at home around dinner. And my new grandchild is absolutely adorable, but she takes full time attention and I want to be there for her, especially around dinner. And I understand the issues for parents to leave at that time. And I think one of the great things that's going on right now are that men are connected with children and are cooking for the family. And I just love it. It's about sharing the work, right?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Sharing the work. It's not just women's work in the house.

[Alice Waters]

It is not.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It is absolutely not.

[Alice Waters]

That's the beautiful thing that's going on in this next generation. And we're finding out about the passions of each other. And the gardening is the same way. Why aren't we all planting victory gardens? Why aren't we planting wherever we can and growing food?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

By the way, my mother's 90 and she had her own very own Victory Garden as a little girl. And the word Victory Garden is so beautiful. I think I have to make a sign and put that on my garden that says Victory Garden.

[Alice Waters]

And I did that during the pandemic and neighbors came over and said, how do you keep the deer away from your vegetables? And I never had talked to my neighbors before, all of a sudden, how.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Do you keep the deer away? And by the way, how do you keep the bunnies away? The bunnies? These fucking bunnies in my. They're making me crazy, Alice.

[Alice Waters]

Well, I've figured out how you plant something for them to eat that they like, and that's over there. And so the things that you want are over here. And what do they like? What do bunnies like? Probably carrots, I presume. I've never had the problem with bunnies. I've just had the problem with deer.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I guess I'm gonna have to plant carrots all over my house because I've actually turned into Farmer McGregor. I mean, I'm thinking, like, I got to trap these things and eat them or something. I want to switch gears to ask you a question about motherhood, actually, specifically because I was really interested in your memoir. You talked about your mother's postpartum, when nobody would discuss postpartum. And her help. Receiving help was considered a taboo. And the arrival of your first period, which you felt you couldn't mention even with your pregnancy. It struck me how little women were supposed to know or were allowed to know about their bodies when you were growing up. And I'm wondering, how did that.

[Alice Waters]

Sort.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Of culture affect or influence the way you raised your daughter? Were there things that you found you had shame about that you had to find a way to get over? I'm curious about that, because I think, frankly, my mother had the same experience about that challenge.

[Alice Waters]

Well, I did. I was in Berkeley in the 60s.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

Right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So there's a. That.

[Alice Waters]

That opened up my mind in so many ways.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

But I still had those taboos in me. And I think that, you know, in some ways, Fanny's father did not have those in his life or didn't. Didn't feel that way about nakedness or just the parts of, you know, your body that are just not to be talked about. And Fanny opened up my mind in a way.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Interesting.

[Alice Waters]

She did. She helped me to really accept myself in that way. She wasn't afraid of those words and still can't say them. Really Strange. No, I can't. I can't say them quite. I can think them, but I can't say them. Interesting. And I believe in it. I believe in having skeletons that we learned from. In our science class in fourth grade, we had that. We don't know anything about anatomy anymore. Where is our gallbladder? I had to ask when I went to the doctor, where is that? I mean, why don't we know?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And what is it doing, by the way?

[Alice Waters]

What is. Yes, and what is it doing?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I mean, people get rid of their gallbladder, don't they?

[Alice Waters]

I know. We don't know anything. Anything about the functioning of our bodies.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

And, I mean, it was only Kennedy that helped us learn about exercise and what our muscles did and who. And he encouraged us all to exercise, and. And that was the beginning of my really sort of passion about it. But, you know, we didn't we thought. And we still do things of exercise as hard.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. As opposed to just a pleasure. Yes.

[Alice Waters]

I mean, it's like walking out at night and seeing the stars, watching the sunset. Even if you're in a city, it's like you get to move and breathe in a kind of air that's different. And I just think that we have such a wrong understanding. Well, it goes with the food, too. It's completely misunderstood what is good for us and what is not.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, indeed. It really is. I would love to shift here and talk about your life as a mother. You had your daughter at age 40, which is just phenomenal, by the way, I love the name Fanny. Can you talk about that transition? Because, of course, you had been running Chez Panisse at that time. And then talk about what you did once Fanny was born and how you managed that. I'm going to say transition.

[Alice Waters]

Fanny was a child of the restaurant. I did bring her there very early on.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

And the waiters, she would crawl around in the dining room. And I wrote a book about her when she was 10 years old and making her pizza upstairs in the restaurant with Michele. All of those experiences she had at a very early age. But I wanted her to understand that food was right of the moment and needed to be eaten. You know, from the garden to the table, that experience. So we had a garden out in back of the house. But another great story, which I might have told one time, was she and her friend wanted to have blueberry pancakes. And I said, this isn't the time. It's wintertime. There's no blueberries. She said, I'm going to go to the store. I said, organic blueberries. Remember that? So she comes back with a little organic label on the blueberries. I said, where did she get that? And in the end, she had to admit that she stole the organic label from another package and that put them on the blueberries.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Did she confess in the moment or later?

[Alice Waters]

No, just a few moments later. About 10 minutes later.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Bless her heart. This is a child rebelling against Alice Waters. That is Alice. But explain how. I mean, as you acknowledged being at home at dinner time, putting a child to bed, that doesn't, shall we say, jive very well with running a restaurant. So can you talk about that balance, how you managed it? Did you step back a little bit?

[Alice Waters]

Did you? Well, I did, kid. I knew we were open for six days, and I knew that I couldn't work six days, but maybe I could work three days and have another chef work three days and they would get paid for full time, but they would only work three days. And it worked so well because they were inspired. They brought another viewpoint to the restaurant that I decided to do that for the cafe chefs and for the pastry chefs. And we've done this since I had my daughter, you know, 40 years ago. I mean, it changed the life of the restaurant because the people who were working on the menus could go out and eat, could take care of their families, could go on vacation. The other chef would cover for them.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Alice Waters]

And everybody who worked at the restaurant would have several opinions. You know, they would learn how to make that salad that way and this way with different chefs. And so I am convinced that spending that money in that way is what has kept the restaurant alive for these 53 years.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I think it's interesting because it kind of. It really does overlap with what you were saying earlier, and that is the connection to the people with whom you're working, the almost ensemble work that you're doing as a restaurant. And that is, of course, there is so much respect built into that way of working that it is so ingrained. There is nothing but respect there. And people respond to that. It brings out the best in someone. And. And that's a great life lesson. It can be applied to so many things. Certainly, I do apply that to the work that I do when I'm working in an ensemble, which is my favorite thing in the world to do. And that kind of give and take and the ability to listen and the ability to share in a moment. It's a great life lesson. It's time to take another break. We'll be right back with Alice Waters in just a moment. When the weather turns cooler, it's time to embrace everything cozy. And Quince has just what you need. From luxurious cashmere to soft loungewear, Quince offers high quality essentials at prices that will shock you. The quince 100% merino wool scarf coat checks all the boxes. Soft, warm, and so stylish, you'll wonder how you ever live without it. The attached scarf and delicate embroidery gives it a bespoke, artisanal feel, while the oversized fit gives warmth and comfort. You can really wrap up in. It's the perfect fall staple item for everything you're doing, whether that's the farmer's market, market brunch with friends, or just walking the dog. And where else can you get 100% merino wool for these prices? Here's the best part. Quince cuts out the middlemen and works directly with the best factories. So you can get a gorgeous high quality wardrobe for a fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere. No markups, no gimmicks, just pure timeless comfort that doesn't break the bank. Get cozy in Quince's high quality wardrobe essentials. Go to quince.com wiser for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.com wiser to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com wiser. You know, one of the things no one tells you about being an adult is how complicated saving and investing can feel. Suddenly you're supposed to know how the stock market works. Yeah, forget it. No thanks. We don't teach basic investing skills in schools and we expect everyone to be able to figure it out on their own. That's why Acorns was introduced. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for your future. You don't need a lot of money or expertise to invest with Acorns. In fact, you can get started with just your spare change. Acorns recommends an expert built portfolio that fits you and your money goals, then automatically invests your money for you. No spreadsheets, no digging around for stock tips, just smart automatic investing while you live your life. So if you've ever thought I should really start saving for the future, but after this next episode, Acorns is for you. Their mission of making investing accessible has resonated with so many people who previously thought getting smart with money just wasn't for them. Head to acorns.com wiser or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors Eliminate LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] Wiser we all have fitness goals, but it's another thing to stick to them until we see progress. Peloton makes it easy to keep up with your goals no matter where you are or how your schedule looks. With a huge variety of classes, Peloton fits every stage and every moment. Whether you're welcoming a new chapter or just carving out a few moments for yourself. Whatever era you're in, holiday hustle, running season, or a new wellness journey, Peloton is ready. With the workouts and encouragement to keep you going. You can try barre, pilates, yoga, running, meditation and so much more to discover what energizes you. Each class type is there to help you stay motivated and keep moving. Need flexibility? Peloton's All Access membership means you can work out at home on your bike, tread or row, or log into the app to squeeze in a workout wherever you happen to be, whether you're at a park, in a hotel, or even cheer cheering on your kids from the sidelines. And if you're balancing a packed schedule, Peloton has you covered. Classes come in all lengths. Whether you have just 10 minutes or you're ready to dive into a 45 minute session, there's always something ready on demand or live, whenever you need it. Find your push Find your power with [e-mail] Wiser Than Me Season 3 is available ad free when you subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll also get access to exclusive interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now in the Apple Podcast app Before we stop talking today, I would like to talk to you for hours and hours.

[Alice Waters]

I have so many things I want to tell you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, well, you must. And I want you. One thing I'd love for you to tell is the Werner Herzog story with the boot. Would you mind explaining the genesis of that? It's such a good story.

[Alice Waters]

Well, it's a story about two filmmakers, Werner Herzog and Errol Morris. And they were both people I knew because of my dearest friend, Tom Luddy.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

And he came, he used Chez Panisse as his dining room. So I met, you know, George Lucas and Coppola and Kurosawa, and everybody came to Chez because of Tom and to Tom encouraged a film to be made about Werner Herzog making a bet with Errol Morris. Referring to a film that Errol Morris was going to make. Verna said, if you do make this film, Errol Morris, I will eat my shit. Then Tom Luddy said, oh well, Alice will cook the shoe. Alice will cook the shoe. And Verner brings by a walking boot that he had, a big old tough boot. And I said, verner, I'm not sure I can cook that. He said, cook it. And I stuffed it with garlic and I tied it all up and I figured it was a little bit like cooking a duck confit. Cook it in the fat. Cook it in duck fat.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm assuming it was leather.

[Alice Waters]

It was leather. Oh God, yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You're not cooking some sort of Gore Tex situation?

[Alice Waters]

Yeah, it was leather. But anyway, I started cooking it and cooking it and cooking it and cooking it and funny. Tom came by to get the shoe to Take over to the auditorium where from was going to eat the shoe. Because Errol made the film and I could not really make it help. But Verner, in his enthusiasm, started to eat the shoe. I watched him eat about. He had a very sharp scissors that he cut it with and he did chew it up and he didn't eat the whole thing, but he did a good job.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And did he go straight to the emergency room after that?

[Alice Waters]

No, but I just.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think that is so remarkable.

[Alice Waters]

It's a testimonial to really believing in what you're doing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

And believing in film to that degree. To understanding the value of a certain filmmaker knowing it's important, the films he's making. And that is, I guess, the way I would feel too. I'm not sure I would eat a shoe, but I might have to do something that I didn't like because. Because I wanted to show people that it was that important to me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I get it. I have to say that was an extraordinary story. And speaking of Tom Luddy, I know that he passed away last year, very sadly for our listeners. Tom Luddy was a film producer who co founded the Telluride Film Festival Festival. And I wanted to ask Alice, actually, if you don't mind, about the things that change as we age. And I'd like to talk about how you deal with grief and loss because you're so community oriented in the most healthy and magical way. Really. How do you rebuild the community as you move through grief, as you have lost people? I mean, this is a part of life. How do you do it?

[Alice Waters]

Well, I wouldn't have believed that I could do it, really. I was afraid of death. And I had my four dear friends die within six months.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Four hours.

[Alice Waters]

Four. All four. Tom Luddy, who was my friend of 50 years, 55 years. I had Fritz Strife, who wrote every book with me, wrote every letter to a president for me. He walked with me every morning. And I haven't been able to imagine my life without him. And then Steve Crumley, who was the first waiter at Chez Panisse, he was the head of the cafe at the top of the stairs for everyone. He was Chez Panisse. And the fourth one was, of course, David Goins. And David. David had a stroke and he was paralyzed. And David is somebody who always did things the way he wanted. Coffee with cognac. You know, that kind of person always knew what he wanted. And there he was in the hospital, paralyzed. And I knew he wouldn't be there long. And even though his sister's daughter wanted him to. To stay alive and go through rehab. He said, I want to go home. Said to his best friend Richard, from the printing press days, I want a blueberry muffin and a rye whiskey. He ate the blueberry muffin, drank the rye whiskey, and died. That was it. I learned so much about dying. Some did it poorly that they couldn't help it. They didn't plan for it. They didn't think it was going to happen. And some had partners who helped them really be with their friends right to the end, who had their friends, heard musicians come and play music, invited Chez Panisse into their house. And then there were people that wanted to do it in private and did it when their partner, you know, left on a trip. And they were all so different. And I saw what it was like. When you don't have your wishes written down and notarized before you die, you can't count on friends and family to do that because they may be stricken with grief, and they have families that want to do something other. Want to have cremations. I've already told Fanny that, you know, I've got a backup for you if you don't do what I want. And I want to be buried in the ground because there are now cemeteries where there are trees.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

A green burial, no casket, just. I want to be part of regenerative agriculture. I want to nourish the soil. Don't want a casket just in there. And I can't probably do it in my backyard, so she could have a lettuce garden there. But I really think it's important. Just think of the way that people have been buried since the beginning of time. And I'm sure that that was part of what kept the soil so rich with all of the nutrients, is the burials.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's interesting, isn't it, that we all have in common the fact that we've been born mystically, magically born in this moment, and we all have in common that we're all gonna go.

[Alice Waters]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But isn't it interesting that people really push away that fact?

[Alice Waters]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And to your point about, can we say dying? Well, that there's a denial in place that is an obstacle to dying. Well, I think there is huge obstacle.

[Alice Waters]

Even the people that are very, very committed about it. Somebody's got questions for them that they can't answer, and it goes in different directions. But I saw that I need to prepare myself, and not just mentally, but physically. And I just appreciate the cultures that care about this.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Alice Waters]

Like the Japanese culture, particularly. I'M so interested in the way they treat children and schools and how they treat older people. People and they care for them. I've always wanted to commune right to the end for my friends. I promised that. And from the time I was 30, I just thought, what if we all just live together?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Alice Waters]

Until we go. And Ruth, Roger was asking about where that commune was today.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Alice Waters]

And maybe it's Santa Barber.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Maybe. Can I join it, by the way, if you put it in. Oh, thanks. I'd love to be in it. I'd love to be in it. I want to ask you quick little questions before we go. Is there something you go back and tell yourself when you were 21?

[Alice Waters]

Pause.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, really?

[Alice Waters]

Don't just tear through your life so quickly. I mean, I was part, you know, of the Free Speech movement and, you know, the whole drinking and living and the sexual freedom times. Stop the war. I mean, and we were so kind of starved for connection with each other, but it's very difficult to do when we aren't really encouraged and taught in college about what the bigger world is about. And that was something that Mario Savio taught me at Berkeley during the Free Speech Movement. He said, we need to learn from other people who have other ways of living.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Pause and pay attention.

[Alice Waters]

Pause and pay attention. Now, of course, I'm running like crazy right now, trying to change the world.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know, I know. I'm running too. But it's something I have to tell myself is. In fact, yesterday I was taking my dog for a walk and we walking through the garden and I was actually admiring some plants that are in bloom. And then I saw a hummingbird land on a little, tiny, tiny branch of this particular plant. And I just stood there watching it. And it was clear that this is a bird who's guarding a nest. Cannot see the nest. You know how tiny these things are. And I thought, oh, I've got to. I have to take the dog to the vet. I've got to meet with this person. But I just stayed there. And I sort of been thinking about that ever since. Just sort of watching the hummingbird sit. And so I'm thinking about that advice. I think we would all benefit to pause and pay attention much more often than we do, particularly in this country.

[Alice Waters]

Well, that's exactly the kind of walk I take every morning. I'm just looking at what's growing, and I'm just fascinated by it. And it's happening everywhere. I mean, you don't have to go to Central Park. No, I mean, the birds are everywhere right and flowers are everywhere and they're changing all the time.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, of course.

[Alice Waters]

And so. So you notice things even in the dandelions that are in the little space between the sidewalk and the street.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Alice, I want to show you the picture of the hummingbird that I took yesterday. Can you see that?

[Alice Waters]

Oh, I love it. I've got some pictures just like that for you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, it's pretty fun to see them just hanging out.

[Alice Waters]

Incredible.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Isn't that, dear?

[Alice Waters]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Alice Waters]

Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Alice Waters, I can't thank you enough for generously giving us so much of your time today. I'm indebted to you. I hope that someday we get to spend time together now.

[Alice Waters]

There's always a seed for you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Bless you. Thank you for everything today.

[Alice Waters]

Thank you for asking me. Wow.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, what a beautiful conversation. And that was with Alice. I just can't wait to talk to my mom about this one. Let's get her on a zoom right away. Hi, Mom. Hi, sweet mom. Okay. I just had the most wonderful conversation with Alice Waters. Oh, what an extraordinary woman she is.

[Judith Bowles]

What a huge impact that she's had on this world.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. We have have her to thank for the farm to table movement and regenerative farming and sustainability. You know, she brought that into the fore.

[Judith Bowles]

Absolutely. And. And got us away from SpaghettiOs.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. Got us away from SpaghettiOs.

[Judith Bowles]

And that's what you grew up on.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

SpaghettiOs and banquet fried chicken dinners. We love that. I happened to mention that in my intro of her, but don't worry, mom, it's all good. It's all fine.

[Judith Bowles]

Yeah. Well, you look okay. I hope.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So far so good. Yeah. She talked about her parents victory garden. And just to be clear, the victory garden idea was brought about by President Roosevelt. Right, Mom?

[Judith Bowles]

Right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

During World War II, he encouraged people to plant gardens and call them Victory gardens in support of the war effort. Can you talk about your victory garden? What was the idea behind it? Sort of nationally. And then what was your thinking about it when you were a little girl?

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, I mean, I thought it was gigantic. I mean that if you plant. If you planted your vegetables and you had your family eat them, that you would win the war. It was just as simple as that. And it was just a victory. And every family would never have to go to the store because you had all your own vegetables and made you independent and made us win the war. So I had a fairly small plot that was out the side door. It was a good sunny corner of our house, the backyard.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And you were about seven.

[Judith Bowles]

Seven or eight, Right, Exactly. So I Got hold of seeds, but I planted them way too close together. I didn't quite understand how much space each one needed. Well, at any rate, not too much happened in that garden, except for carrots. And I remember very, very well one day riding my bike up the side driveway and seeing these little green tops coming.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Judith Bowles]

And I thought, oh, did you? We're winning the war. This is so great. It was so excited. And I tried to keep watching, but I got too excited. So I started to pull them out. And Julia, they were like little hair carrots. So they're like little. I mean, you could barely see them. They were so darn. And so anyway, then I tried to leave some in there, but I just kept getting excited every time I looked at them. Did my harvesting way too early.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So they were like little tiny, like hairpins coming out hairpins. I bet they were tasty because they were so baby.

[Judith Bowles]

Yes, right. Very sweet. But all those things that we did, the scrap metal and then tin cans that you gathered and then you took them to the scrap metal center and you bought Victory Stamps. And all of those small things that we did seemed to me to be crucial. And I really, as I had my red wagon and was gathering up tin cans, I was convinced that that was going to win the war.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Mom. And wasn't there rationing, too?

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, yeah, there was rationing of sugar and butter, and we didn't get any butter, but we got oleomargarine, which was sort of a white stuff. And then you added yellow dye to it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, dear.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, it's just terrible. It was awful.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And the. What was the idea of the VICT garden? Just what was the idea politically? Why did he suggest that people plant gardens?

[Judith Bowles]

I don't know. Somehow I think probably I'm imagining that was Eleanor Roosevelt.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Judith Bowles]

Because she was very influenced by the work in Cornell. And Cornell was the place that had the first really home economics that was not just stupid. I mean, it was very scientific.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So here's what my exterior brain, my phone is telling me about. Why Americans were asked to plant victory gardens. Officials reminded Americans that a well planned victory garden was not only patriotic, but could provide a family with nutritious and tasty food. America had a reputation as a land of plenty, But World War II challenged the nation's ability to grow and distribute food, because obviously the distribution of food is an expensive undertaking. So that's a really fascinating idea. And I know it was such a formative part of your life, and it was a formative part of Alice's life as well. Which is just so, so interesting.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, sure.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Anyway, I hope that our paths cross again because I really, really like Alice. She's just a lovely person. All right, so you're lovely, too. And now I'm going to say goodbye to you.

[Judith Bowles]

Okay, well, I will say goodbye to you, too. I love you. Thank you for talking to her and talking to me.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay. Love you, Mommy. Have a wonderful day.

[Judith Bowles]

Okay, thanks. You too.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Bye. Bye. There's More Wiser Than Me With Lemonada Premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of season three A.D. free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple Podcasts app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at wiser than Me, and we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media, created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Peace, Jamilah, zara Williams, Alex McOen and Oja Lopez. Brad hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neal is VP of New Content, and our SVP of Weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittleswax, Jessica Cordova, Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Joni Vince Evans with engineering help from James Farber, and our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and of course my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts and if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up. Hey Wiser Than Me listeners, We want to hear from you. By just answering a few questions on our listener survey, you can share feedback.

[Alice Waters]

About show content you'd like to see.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

In the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best. And even better, once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Visa gift card. The survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't.

[Alice Waters]

Want to skip and keep bringing you content you love.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Just go to lemonade.com survey lemonadamedia.com survey.