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- [00:01]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Well, hi there. It's me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. We're back for season three of Wiser Than Me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the magnificent old ladies featured this season. To celebrate the start of season three, we've added some groovy new items to our Wiser Than Me merchandise collection. Head over to our merch shop to check out all of our great stuff, like a classic Wiser Than Me bagu tote bag, a kitchen tea towel with my grandma Dede's delicious peanut butter cookie recipe featured on it, and a new, gorgeous hardcover Wiser Than Me notebook to capture all of this season's bits of wisdom. Start shopping today by visiting wiserthanmeshop.com.
- [00:45]
Patti LaBelle
Lemonader.
- [00:50]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So I'm not good at technical things. If it's digital, I can't do it. Or really, I won't do it. I mean, I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of stuff, but in the end, who really gives a shit? I get by just fine, thanks. Except for one thing. Music. I love to listen to music. It's one of the three or four things I enjoy most in life. When I was in high school and college, we had a record player. A record player. Remember those? Oh, my God, the hours and hours that I would listen to music, Slap Stevie Wonder's talking book on the turntable, place the needle on the record, music comes out of the speakers. Nothing to it. And then records died. Fine, whatever. Stick the Stevie Wonder CD in the thing, press play. I could do that. And look, I certainly don't want to be them. Well, back in my day kind of person, especially on a show about how older women make such valuable contributions right now, but now it's all Spotify and Apple music. And that's great when I've got my phone in my pocket and my ear things in, but what about when I want to dance around my kitchen? What is washing dishes, you know, without Ray Charles blaring or Parliament Funkadelic when you're making the bed? Okay, I can't make that happen. And we have what the rest of my family claims is a very straightforward system that is utter and complete bullshit. But here I am, they say, with every song ever recorded, and I think they're like 100 million songs on Spotify or something all right there at my fingertips. And how often do I listen to music in my own home if I'm alone? Never. Seriously. I'm not kidding you. Never. And what a giant loss that is. Our house used to be Filled with music. I remember making cassette tapes of playlists when our kids were born. Oh, my God. Music for nap time, music for waking up. Just music. Music. Our house was full of music, and it made such an imprint on our boys. For example, our son Henry, he started playing guitar in middle school, and when he was in high school, he was in a jazz band. So it created Christmas. The school would have a holiday concert, and the jazz band played a song or two. So fantastic. And these were always instrumentals, right? But at this concert, at the end, they bring out a microphone, and R. Henry, in his little suit and tie, steps up to the microphone and he says, this is Tenderness by Paul Simon. Okay, look, we had no idea this was going to happen. He hadn't said anything, nothing. So the band plays that first chord. Do you know that song?
- [03:35]
Patti LaBelle
What Can I Do? What Can I Do?
- [03:46]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And Henry starts to sing his version of that song. And it was shocking. I mean, we knew he could sing. He was in a good rock band. But this. What? We'd never heard him do this. It was like a complete transformation. It was transporting. And it came out of nowhere. It's like a movie. We were so astonished. And girls were woo, woo. They were all screaming. And Henry's voice was, like sailing up higher and higher because he has this gorgeous tenor voice. And his dad and I looked at each other and we knew without a doubt that this guy was going to be a singer, a musician, and of course, that's exactly what he is. In fact, he writes the music for this podcast. Do yourself a favor and listen to him on Spotify if you can figure out how to work it. Because seriously, he is just unusually good. And I say that as a music critic, not as his mother. And God damn it, I want to hear my own son's music on Spotify. Loud in my kitchen, which. Okay, so this brings me back to my technical infirmities. Henry had a live show a couple of nights ago at a great venue here in Los Angeles called Zebulon. I bought tickets online, and when we got to Zebulon, I brought the tickets up on my phone, and I tried to get up the QR thing or whatever the fuck it is, and I can't do it. And of course, there are people behind us in the line, and the show's coming up, and I don't want to hold up the line. And the nice kid at the box office offers to help me, ma'am. He says, oh, God. And I see this very handsome young door guy watching this, and he's smiling. He's laughing a little bit at me. And I'm thinking, oh, come on. What? I'm that lady. I'm the one who can't figure out her own telephone. Please. The world has passed me by, God damn it. But then the scanner went beep and we went in and the show started. And in 30 seconds, none of that mattered because the music was not just good, it was spectacular. And there I was, doing one of the three or four things I love the most, listening to great music, and really everything else fell away. Nothing else mattered. I was completely lost in it. Looking at my Henry on stage, I could see the direct line between his high school jazz band and this night. And I was completely happy. Because really, is there anything better than the simple pleasure of a good singer singing a good song? Especially a singer you love with all your heart? So how wonderful then, that today we are talking to the great Patti LaBelle. I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. In 1954, a very shy 10 year old girl walked up to Beulah Baptist Church in West Philadelphia for the first time. So shy, in fact, that until that day, her mother had to convince her to go outside and play with other kids by paying her a quarter each time. But in that church, things started to change for her. Under the guidance of Ms. Harriet Chapman, her choir director, gospel songs began to fill her head. The solos came, standing ovations started to roll in, people saying, that girl sure can sing. Ms. Harriet told our guest, never stop singing. Whatever. Do, don't stop. And guess what? Patti LaBelle is not stopping. You could right now go see Patti LaBelle perform live where you'd hear her sing incredible hits like the original Lady Marmalade, On My Own and New Attitude. What you can expect at a Patti LaBelle show is drama, shoes flying, and a damn good time. That personality on stage, that big voice, and 18 studio albums have rightfully earned her the title of the godmother of soul beyond music. She's an accomplished entrepreneur, entrepreneur, actress, and a New York Times bestselling author of several incredible cookbooks. She has transformed her culinary talent into a multimillion dollar empire with her brand Good Life, which includes her viral sweet potato pies. Mastering one craft is challenging enough, but my God, Patti LaBelle has mastered many. In 2023, she was named one of Forbes magazine's 50 over 50. She's a Grammy winner, an NAACP Image Award winner, a GLAAD Media award recipient and an inductee into the GR Grammy hall of Fame. Yet the accolades she has received are not for her alone. A core part of who Patty is involves helping others, and I can't wait to talk about that. Patty was one of the first recording artists to support AIDS causes in the 80s and 90s and is still a fierce advocate for gay rights. Not to mention her band labelle performed in the gay bathhouse circuit, the same that launched Bette Midler and Barry manilow in the 70s. Most recently, she launched a consulting firm called ZPAC dedicated to assisting BIPOC and women owned food businesses in getting their products onto the shelves of big box retailers. She is taking what she has learned and is helping others succeed a positive force. Force all caps in a troubled and so often negative time. And that is why I am deeply thrilled to be talking today to an icon, a mother, a grandmother, and entrepreneur who is so much wiser than me, Patti LaBelle. Patti, you're giving me goosebumps. Just talking about this is giving me goosebumps for real.
- [09:52]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, thank you so much. Julia's giving me goosebumps talking to you.
- [09:57]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It's a delight.
- [09:58]
Patti LaBelle
Thank you.
- [09:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Thank you. So, Patty, are you comfortable if I ask your real age?
- [10:03]
Patti LaBelle
I'm 80.
- [10:04]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You're 80?
- [10:04]
Patti LaBelle
80 and happy. Yeah, a good 80.
- [10:07]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
How old do you feel, Patty?
- [10:09]
Patti LaBelle
I feel 30.
- [10:10]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You do?
- [10:11]
Patti LaBelle
Yes, I feel 30. And the 80 is working. It's working. I've never been ashamed of saying my graduation. Whenever I turn 75, that's a graduation.
- [10:24]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh.
- [10:25]
Patti LaBelle
I graduate each day in age, which some, some ladies and men are afraid to say how, how old they are. And my sisters all died early, in the early 40s.
- [10:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [10:38]
Patti LaBelle
So whenever I made 50, I, I knew I had graduated, you know, and every, every other year was just like putting on another year that they didn't make it. So I'm honored to be 80.
- [10:51]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, boy. Is that something I was going to ask you, what's the best part about being your age? But you just answered it. I mean, I love the idea of thinking of aging is graduating. That's so cool because it implies what you've learned. It implies an education, doesn't it?
- [11:06]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, it does. A true education. I have learned at every age something great and something that you say to yourself, well, maybe because my family died young, I might not make it to 70. And I did, and I'm 80 and still striving and still realizing it's a blessing.
- [11:29]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And now here you are. And I have to say, for our listeners Looking positively exquisite. Patti's wearing this gorgeous white top with a multiple strands of pearls and honestly, short bob haircut. You look divine.
- [11:45]
Patti LaBelle
Thank you, Julia.
- [11:47]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So this year you celebrated your 80th birthday and I understand your son Zuri surprised you and you said, you're really hard to surprise. I can't believe the pictures I saw from your party. That was a crazy party. How did you. I need to know details about it. How did you know, like what to wear? How did he get you there without you knowing?
- [12:10]
Patti LaBelle
I knew at 80 I was going to have a big, big party.
- [12:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [12:13]
Patti LaBelle
So my friend Zhang Toy made a beautiful dress for me before I knew where the party would be or any details. But I knew I had to celebrate with a beautiful dress. So I got the dress and I kept saying to my son, why don't you just tell me? He said, tell you what? I said, just tell me where it's going to be, because I know it's going to be. And so then he told me this big story one day about I had to get dressed because we're having a meeting with Walmart. I said, since when do I have to get dressed, dressed up for meeting with Walmart? But I did.
- [12:51]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Wait a minute. Were you suspicious or did you buy into it?
- [12:54]
Patti LaBelle
Of course I was. No, I was suspicious because I knew he was lying. I knew it wasn't going to be a party with Walmart, but because I am who I am, I got dressed in, put on that beautiful blue dress and said, let me. Let him think that I don't know any better. And then we went to the party. It was in New York because I live in Philadelphia. And so I knew it was going to be a fabulous night. And when I walked in the door, all my friends were there. Oh, God. Everybody that I loved in show business from back in the day, friends that I hadn't seen in 20 years, just so many wonderful people who enjoyed celebrating with Patty. Patty. Yeah.
- [13:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, that's so good. I love it. You tour 8 to 11 months out of the year. Is that still the case?
- [13:45]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, yeah, I tour all the time. A lot of people think that I've stopped singing. I said, oh, no, Google me, honey, I'm on tour a lot, so can.
- [13:54]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You just talk about the realities of keeping your voice in shape? What is your routine?
- [13:59]
Patti LaBelle
I have no routine to keep my voice in shape.
- [14:02]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
What?
- [14:03]
Patti LaBelle
No. No routine? No, not at all.
- [14:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Stop it. Don't you drink tea or anything?
- [14:09]
Patti LaBelle
Do you warm up tea? I. No, I don't warm up either. I think I'M a bad person to not.
- [14:16]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
No, you're not.
- [14:17]
Patti LaBelle
Do the things that most singers do. I just wake up and I could sing perfectly in the morning at 6 or 7 in the morning. So that, that's a blessing. And I never, I've never done anything to make this happen. I've never had lessons, I've never. I'm just a. Whatever I am.
- [14:39]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Do you have perfect pitch?
- [14:41]
Patti LaBelle
I have perfect pitch.
- [14:42]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You do?
- [14:42]
Patti LaBelle
Uh huh. Yes. Thank God.
- [14:45]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That is so cool. You've had so many wonderful and deep friendships with people that we know, you know, as icons like Prince and Mick Jagger and Nina Simone. And one through line through all of this is that you have, in addition to knowing them as artists and being with them as artists, you've cooked meals for them.
- [15:08]
Patti LaBelle
I've cooked for so many. Richard Pryor for, of course, the Rolling Stones. Elton John was my piano player back in the day.
- [15:18]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [15:18]
Patti LaBelle
And so his band would come to my flat after the shows and we would play cards for money. And they lost every time. They didn't have any pounds. No pounds. You know. So I won all the pounds and sent them home with Tupperware. With food every night we played because they couldn't afford food.
- [15:37]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [15:37]
Patti LaBelle
So here's the story with Elton. So we were buddies, Buddies, buddies. And so he called me one night and said, hello Patty. I'm not going to do his accent because I can't. He said, hello, Patty. I said, yeah. He said, this is me. Elton. No, Reggie.
- [15:53]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh.
- [15:54]
Patti LaBelle
I said Reggie because he was Reggie Dwight. His band was Bluesology, I think, and he was Reggie at that time. He was not Elton John.
- [16:02]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Was that he was born Reggie. Was that his birth name? Yes.
- [16:05]
Patti LaBelle
And so he called me and said, patty, it's Reggie. I said, oh, hey Reg. He said, I want you to come to my show tonight. I said, a show where? He said, at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. So I said, oh, who are you opening for?
- [16:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [16:21]
Patti LaBelle
He said, I'm Elton John now. I said, you heffa. Did I tell him some bad things? I said, you made it before me, honey. Yes. And it was just a beautiful, beautiful moment. And so later we recorded together in Vegas when he did the Red Piano show in Vegas.
- [16:40]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [16:41]
Patti LaBelle
And we recorded a duet together. And after this song was done, he had taken his rings off.
- [16:47]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [16:47]
Patti LaBelle
And I said, so here are your rings, Elton. And he said, no, that's for your Tupperware that you gave me back in the day. So he paid me with a beautiful ring. Yes.
- [16:58]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh my goodness. Do you still have that ring?
- [17:01]
Patti LaBelle
I have it upstairs in my box. Yes.
- [17:04]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I'm dying to see what that ring looks like.
- [17:06]
Patti LaBelle
I'm keeping that ring.
- [17:08]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Of course you are.
- [17:09]
Patti LaBelle
Do you know where that ring is, Kim? I could show you.
- [17:12]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Would you show me?
- [17:13]
Patti LaBelle
Could you get it? Sure.
- [17:15]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I would love to see it.
- [17:17]
Patti LaBelle
It's so beautiful. It's so manly. So I never wear it, but it's.
- [17:22]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So meaningful and the story behind it. Because what he did was you made food for him, but then he kept the Tupperware and he didn't return it. And that kind of bugged you, right?
- [17:33]
Patti LaBelle
It's because I love to get my shopping bags. If I give you food and my Tupperware bag, well, I understand that.
- [17:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It makes sense. It's kind of rude not to give it back.
- [17:41]
Patti LaBelle
Well, I love my Tupperware and my shopping bag. Good shopping bags. Yes. So he did pay me back that day at Caesars when we were recording. After the recording session, he gave me the ring that he had taken off to play the song. And he's a good friend. Yeah.
- [17:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [17:59]
Patti LaBelle
I have so many friends in this business. A prince who wanted me to cook for him. So he took me to his home and they went grocery shopping for me, his people. And when I made about eight items or more, the only thing he ate were the biscuits.
- [18:19]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Was he not a big eater? What's the deal? Well, he was kind of a small man.
- [18:23]
Patti LaBelle
He is small. So he made me cook all that food, and he ate a biscuit. I said, what's up? He said, that's all I wanted. I just wanted to see you cook.
- [18:31]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, my God.
- [18:32]
Patti LaBelle
And then he took me to his. Was a disco, a club. Before that, he had outfits made for me at his studio because he had a tailor shop in his building.
- [18:43]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Is this in Minneapolis?
- [18:44]
Patti LaBelle
In Minneapolis. And he had four outfits made for me. And then I cooked for him that day. And then that night, he took me to the club and we danced and we drove in the Alphabet car. Oh, you remember the Alphabet car?
- [18:58]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Sure, I do.
- [19:00]
Patti LaBelle
So many wonderful memories with those guys.
- [19:03]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Did you enjoy collaborating with him in particular, as an artist? Was it sort of. Was it an elevated experience?
- [19:09]
Patti LaBelle
Patty, it was more than that. And the thing is, sometimes producers make you record a song like 20, 30, 40, 50 times for that one song. When we did our song, you, Mr. He said, that's it. On the first take.
- [19:24]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
No way.
- [19:24]
Patti LaBelle
He did not want a second take, he said, because the first take was magic. And I appreciate that so much because sometimes you get in a studio and they make you Work, work, work, work. When you think you had it in the first five takes, and sometimes you'll continue to record and continue it, and then they end up using maybe the first or the second. But Prince knew he wanted that one take.
- [19:47]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Isn't that fascinating? I mean, he was an artist. He was a true artist. Oh, boy. Here comes the ring. Here comes the ring. Oh, my gosh. Oh, it's beautiful. It's a diamond ring. And it looks like it has crosses on it, right? Like four different crosses. And it's like a. It looks like it's pave diamond ring, right?
- [20:13]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. It's so heavy and just so beautiful.
- [20:15]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It's heavy, but, you know, it's beautiful. And, Patty, I have to tell you something. I think you can get away with wearing that. I don't think that looks too manly on your hand at all.
- [20:23]
Patti LaBelle
It doesn't really fit on the fingers that are like. This finger is too small. This one. It's kind of big on it. It's a big ring. It's a little too big for my fingers, and it doesn't fit on this one.
- [20:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Well, you could have it size. Patty, I'm just telling you. I'm in favor of you wearing that ring. I love it.
- [20:40]
Patti LaBelle
You're in favor of me wearing it? Well, I'll get it fitted.
- [20:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Get it fitted, yeah.
- [20:46]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. So I still have your ring, Elton. I have it.
- [20:51]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's beautiful. That is beautiful. And I love that story about Prince, too. And I understand that you travel. I mean, you're such a cook, and you love to cook so much. You travel with spices. What are the spices you travel with? You must have very specific ones.
- [21:06]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, my gosh. In season, I travel with habanero peppers because they're the hottest, and monkey peppers, bird peppers, anything that's hot. Jalapenos are not so hot, but the habaneros are crazy, blazing hot. So I carry those. I carry fresh garlic. I carry certain sea salts and grapeseed oil I travel with.
- [21:31]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, interesting.
- [21:32]
Patti LaBelle
And when we get to the town, we'll find a farmer's market to get the fish and, you know, fresh foods, fresh meats and fresh vegetables.
- [21:40]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [21:41]
Patti LaBelle
And I make sure I have those. And I carry my pots and pans on the road.
- [21:45]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And so if you're going to a farmer's market and you're. I'm kind of going off topic here, but I'm so interested to know, okay, when you're going to a farmer's market like that, in whatever town you're in, I'm assuming you're kind of maybe making things up as you go along because you don't know what you're going to come across at the farmers market, right?
- [22:01]
Patti LaBelle
Never know. No, you never.
- [22:03]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You never know.
- [22:03]
Patti LaBelle
So I'm very spontaneous when it comes to cooking and having to go to a store. If they don't have what I really need, I'll find it. And if not, I'll improvise. You know, I love that.
- [22:15]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I love that the I wish you live close to me because I've got. I have a huge serrano chili plant right now. It has a lot of chilies on it and I'd be. And I don't need to eat a lot of those and I would be so happy to send them your way.
- [22:29]
Patti LaBelle
Well, send them anyway, whenever. We'll get them.
- [22:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It's time to take a quick break. We'll be back with Patti LaBelle in just a few moments. Staying on task with a million windows open on your computer is practically impossible. By the time you've answered ten emails, another hundred have piled up. And let's not even get started on the endless tabs from your Internet search rabbit holes. Listen, we know your time and expertise are valuable, and with professionals spending nearly half the work week on written communication, focus is one of the most important things to have at work. With Grammarly as your writing partner, you can stay focused and get through your work faster with relevant, real time suggestions whenever you write. Grammarly helps with any writing, from brainstorming to sounding more confident and persuasive at work. In fact, 90% of professionals say Grammarly has saved them time writing and editing their work. Plus, it works seamlessly with the apps you use every day. Get more done with Grammarly. Download Grammarly for free@Grammarly.com podcasts that's Grammarly.com podcast. Certainly you've taken a lot of pictures with your kids and family this year. Holidays, first day of school, vacations, and all those little moments in between. Here's the thing, even with all those great shots, sharing them with the whole family can be a hassle. It can feel like a lot to manage. Fortunately, there's an easy way to share all those memories without flooding their inboxes. Named the number one digital photo frame by Wirecutter, Aura Frames are incredibly smart and easy to use, allowing you to upload unlimited photos and videos directly from your phone to the frame. Plus, you can order the frame online and preload it with photos and videos using the Aura app, so it's ready to go right out of the box. Let's be honest. What most people really want for the holidays is to see their favorite people more often. That's why this year the best gift you can give besides plane tickets is an Aura Digital picture frame. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling carver Mat frames by using Promo code Wiser at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code wiser. This deal is exclusive to listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays. Terms and conditions apply. I know we're all so excited to find the perfect gifts for the people we love. There's nothing like seeing your adult child light up because you finally nailed it and surprised them with exactly what they wanted. Macy's Friends and Family Sale is here to help make that magic happen. From December 4th through December 12th, take an extra 30% off top gifts and 15% off the best beauty brands. They've got something for everyone. Ugg boots, Advent calendars, Nest candles, Crocs. Crocs. Who knew those were going to be such a big hit? They also have these incredible dry bar travel kits, skin gym LED masks and stocking stuffers galore. With the holidays right around the corner, now is the time to dig into your holiday shopping and find those perfect gifts for your loved ones and for a great too all at the Macy's Friends and Family sale. Don't miss out on Macy's biggest offer of the season. Save big and enjoy free shipping on orders over $25. Whether you're shopping for loved ones or treating yourself, now's the time to snag those perfect holiday finds. With deals this good, why wait? Visit Macy's.com and make this holiday season the easiest and most stylish one yet. So you grew up as the second youngest of five children, correct?
- [26:21]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [26:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And as I said, you were very shy. But now, now look at you. You have such, you have this huge social life.
- [26:30]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [26:31]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
When, when did you grow out of that? How did, what was this evolution for you?
- [26:37]
Patti LaBelle
I don't remember how old I was when I became not so shy, but it was so bad, my mother would pay me a quarter to go out and play with kids.
- [26:46]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [26:47]
Patti LaBelle
And the quarter wore out and I wore out with people. So I said, I'm coming back home. Oh, I was just too shy to deal with people. Of course, that changed in years because now I'm around so many wonderful people and so many things that I do now include people. So I was just born a shy girl.
- [27:07]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Do you ever feel that shyness coming back, Patty?
- [27:10]
Patti LaBelle
Yes, every now and then it comes back.
- [27:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And how do you manage it? And tell me how it comes back? I'm so curious.
- [27:17]
Patti LaBelle
It comes back at moments, and I can't explain why it comes back at times, but when it does, it leaves quickly because I can't handle it. I know that I have to be out of that shy state to do what I do. Before we go on stage, we pray. And when I see the audience, that brings me back to not being so shy because they're so giving.
- [27:41]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So you feel the energy from the audience.
- [27:44]
Patti LaBelle
Energy from the audience. And when you go out, you never know what audience you're gonna have. You don't know if they've never seen you before, if they're trying to say, okay, we're gonna give this chick a try. And then when I get out, one of the things that I say in the middle of the show, how many people are seeing me for the first time? And maybe 80% of the audience raised their hand. And so then I said, well, fasten your seatbelts. Cause it's gonna be a bumpy ride. And I hope you will come back to see me once you see me tonight.
- [28:17]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I love that you take the energy and it kind of lifts you up. It's like arms outstretched to you. And I think that's phenomenal. So, Patti, going back to your musical beginnings, your older brother introduced you to jazz, right?
- [28:29]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. He was a Nina Simone, James Moody, a fanatic. And I learned to love jazz, I mean, because of him.
- [28:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right. And then I'm jumping ahead here. But then you got to know Nina Simone personally, didn't you?
- [28:46]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, she was my good friend. Yes. Yes. We would talk maybe once every two weeks. Goodness, she was just a wonderful friend. And we talked about food, we talked about. She talked about everything with me.
- [29:00]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
What did you learn from her? What did you learn from Nina Simone?
- [29:04]
Patti LaBelle
Well, there was a time we were doing a show at Carnegie hall with Sting, Elton. Oh, my God. A few. A few wonderful people. And she was with me, and I asked for a glass of wine, and they brought it to me in a plastic cup. She said, oh, no, darling, you never drink out of plastic. Crystal only. Crystal only. You know, it's just. She was just like a teacher and just.
- [29:33]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
But she said, but that can't be the only thing you learn from her to drink out of crystal.
- [29:37]
Patti LaBelle
Her music. I mean, she was so. She was one of a kind. She was way ahead of most people.
- [29:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [29:46]
Patti LaBelle
For the rights of the right people.
- [29:48]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's right.
- [29:48]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah. So, I mean, I learned that I. I just stayed with her whenever she would call or I would call her and was just like mother lessons, you know that she was just mother lessons. Yeah, just her. Her period was a blessing to me.
- [30:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [30:06]
Patti LaBelle
I can just say she was like one of my better friends in life. Not just musically, just life, things that happen in life. And just a strong, strong woman. She was.
- [30:19]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And I believe you cooked for her too, particularly, like, at the end of her life.
- [30:23]
Patti LaBelle
I did. I was at. I think we were at the London hotel in New York. I can't remember the name of the hotel. We were staying at the same hotel because we were doing the Carnegie hall show. And she was in my hotel. And so she called me and said, patty, what are you doing? So I said, I'm making lunch. And so she said, what are you making? I said, I'm making hot sausage. I mean, they were really hot from the farmers market in Philly. I brought them with me to New York. And she said, I would like one. And so I went up to her room and she was there in her way of being at that time. And my friend normally who does my hair came up with me. She said, no, no, not Norma, just you. So I went in and gave her the hot sausage. And she. She just showed me what she was going through. It was very personal. And she just opened up to me and when she ate it, I said, now you're going to need a lot of water to go after that. Hot, hot. So she said, after she finished, she said, go make me another one. And they were. They were on fire. I said, are you my kind of girl? Yeah. So.
- [31:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Wow.
- [31:35]
Patti LaBelle
We had quite great personal moments. Just as a friend.
- [31:40]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's just so beautiful. So you had three sisters. What was the dynamic like between you and your sisters when you were growing up?
- [31:49]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, God, the dynamic with my sisters. We fought.
- [31:52]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You did.
- [31:53]
Patti LaBelle
We loved.
- [31:54]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
We hugged.
- [31:55]
Patti LaBelle
We. We had issues with crabs. Hard shell crabs.
- [32:00]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
What do you mean, issues?
- [32:01]
Patti LaBelle
Issues. Because we all loved hard shell crabs. Male crabs, the gigantic ones.
- [32:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [32:07]
Patti LaBelle
So we would get bushels of crabs on the weekend. And so whenever they were cooked, I would go in the pot first and take the bigger ones. And my sisters would hate me for this. They said, why do you always have to get the big ones? And they would say a few curse words to me. I said, because I can, you know. And so we would have fights about my taking the big crabs. And it always ended up that I got the bigger ones because I. I was a I was a picker. I knew how to get in that pot and pick before they got in the kitchen. Just crazy things. But we loved each other. But we fought like sisters.
- [32:43]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And they were very fashionable too. I understand, right, Your sisters, weren't they?
- [32:47]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, I used to wear my sister's Vivian. When she went to work, I would get her clothes and wear them to school and she would come back and say, somebody's been in my clothes. Cause I never put them back properly, you know. So, yeah, we had fights about that. But she was a dressing woman. Yes.
- [33:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Really?
- [33:06]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah, she knew how to dress.
- [33:08]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Maybe you got a sense of fashion from her. Because actually your outfits, when you were with LaBelle, those outfits were completely ahead of their time, don't you think?
- [33:17]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, God, they were ahead of time. Yes, they were.
- [33:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
They really were. I mean, you really kind of. I mean, you. I think I even heard you say we were. We were Lady Gaga before there was Lady Gaga. The way you would come out and present yourselves.
- [33:33]
Patti LaBelle
Right. We were Gaga and Madonna before they were kiss the girl.
- [33:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [33:39]
Patti LaBelle
They wanted to dress like our outfits. So they got in touch with our designer, Larry Legaspi, and said, we want to have some things like LaBelle. And so he made things for them. It was such a compliment. It was a compliment when Gaga or Madonna, like Sarah Dash wore the beautiful silver breastplates. Madonna wore them. And it was after they saw Sarah with them. And it was so many compliments thrown our way because we did it first.
- [34:10]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes, of course. In your memoir you talk about having low self esteem as a child, which we discussed. And you didn't consider yourself beautiful, which I find astounding by the way. Cause you are truly a beauty.
- [34:25]
Patti LaBelle
Well, thank you. I never saw myself as beautiful. I saw myself as a real woman looking the way I look, not wanting to make any difference on my face. But I did. I had a nose job, you know, and that didn't make me any prettier. It just took away some of the, some of the no's. But I. I've learned lately that it doesn't really matter what you look like. It doesn't. You know, I dress up and get made up and haired up for the shows because I'm in show business. But if not, I'll be just like right now. I'm not really basically made up or haired up. I'm Julia upped, you know, so this is kind of, kind of quiet.
- [35:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
If this is quiet, I. I mean, honestly, I cannot. I think you look spectacular. You could go to the Academy Awards looking The way you do right now. But what do you mean that you. What do you mean that you learned it lately? You said. I learned lately that what you look like doesn't really matter because I realize.
- [35:31]
Patti LaBelle
What I am inside. I am a person with a good heart. And the makeup and the hair is not going to make me a better person. It's not going to make me a better person. As I've gotten older, I've realized that that does not make me. It doesn't make me. As long as I can sing and perform and make somebody happy, that's good. Sometimes I say I could just do it with a pair of jeans, not with an awesome costume or something. Because they came to see Patty LaBelle. They didn't come to see the costume. Although I'm a dressing drag queen. I do dress up. I do. I do. I do.
- [36:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [36:12]
Patti LaBelle
And it feels good. But I realize that we can't put all that emphasis on how we look all the time.
- [36:18]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. It can be exhausting, right?
- [36:20]
Patti LaBelle
It is exhausting.
- [36:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And you have this musical instrument, and that's your. That blessing is the one that.
- [36:26]
Patti LaBelle
That's my life, let's face it.
- [36:28]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, that's your life.
- [36:29]
Patti LaBelle
The music is my life. That is your life, yes.
- [36:32]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
When you were with the Bluebells, the group was you, Sarah Dash, Nona Hendricks and Cindy Birdsong. And then Cindy left, right?
- [36:41]
Patti LaBelle
Cindy left to go with the Supremes.
- [36:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
The Supremes in 1967. At the time that that happened, did that shake your confidence when it happened?
- [36:57]
Patti LaBelle
It shook my confidence because it happened.
- [36:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It did.
- [37:00]
Patti LaBelle
It was not knowledge of our group that she was leaving to go with the Supremes. And so we were performing in Cleveland, I think, and we were waiting for her to come down. And she never came down, you know, to go to the dressing room. And so somehow we found out, I think it was the next night, that she had joined the Supremes.
- [37:25]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You didn't even find out from her. You just found it out from some other way.
- [37:28]
Patti LaBelle
We found out at the time, I don't remember exactly how, but it wasn't from. It wasn't from Cindy. No, she did not call us. And I just felt so betrayed and just so sad. And then I thought about it. I said, maybe if I were in her position and one of the best selling female groups asked me to join them, I might have said yes, because they were making much more money than we were.
- [37:57]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [37:58]
Patti LaBelle
So I kind of understood her reasoning after a while. And then I prayed for her and I said, wish you the best of luck. You Know, So I had to take it and I had to not dislike her for that.
- [38:12]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. It's just the way she went about it. Maybe it was a mistake on her part. Yeah. Have you had conversations with her subsequently and come to come to a peaceful.
- [38:23]
Patti LaBelle
Place with her and Diana? You know, so it was something that, at the time, Diana wanted to do and Barry Gordy or whoever, they wanted to replace Florence Ballard.
- [38:34]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [38:35]
Patti LaBelle
And she was very close to looking like Florence Ballard and sounding like Florence Ballard.
- [38:41]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I see.
- [38:41]
Patti LaBelle
So after a while, I realized that they did what they had to do.
- [38:45]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [38:45]
Patti LaBelle
And I did what I had to do. And that was to keep on keeping on.
- [38:48]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Keep on keeping on.
- [38:50]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah. I couldn't hold that anger. I couldn't hold it any longer.
- [38:53]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. Because it'll eat you up.
- [38:55]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. And we. Since then, we've talked. Diana and I have talked. We're friends.
- [38:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Good.
- [39:00]
Patti LaBelle
You know, so there's no hard feelings at this time. So it's a done deal.
- [39:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's a done deal. That's finished now. You went. You started going to therapy, I think you did.
- [39:12]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [39:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Around the time that Cindy left the group. Is that right?
- [39:17]
Patti LaBelle
No, I went to therapy after the group broke. Oh, after the first rope.
- [39:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes. Up. Okay.
- [39:22]
Patti LaBelle
With me, Sarah and Nona. When we broke up as a group, I didn't want to be blamed as the one who left the group. I didn't want to be. Sometimes they said Diana Ross was the reason they broke up the Supremes or whatever.
- [39:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [39:39]
Patti LaBelle
I didn't want it to be said that Patti LaBelle broke the group up.
- [39:42]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I see.
- [39:43]
Patti LaBelle
So I had to go to therapy because it was hard for me to go out on that stage some nights solo, without them. But the reason we broke up is because the three of us wanted to do different music.
- [39:55]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Sure.
- [39:56]
Patti LaBelle
And so to stay together as a group, we'd be lying to the public. So we had to make that move. And like I said, we're still talking. Yesterday, me and Nona, we lost Sarah, which is so sad. But we're still the best of friends. But at that time, I needed help. I needed a shrink.
- [40:16]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, I get it. I mean, I think endings are very difficult. They can be really difficult for me, too. I mean, not that I had a fabulous girl group, but, you know, when jobs end particularly long standing jobs, that can be a ground shift. Can it? Scary.
- [40:37]
Patti LaBelle
It's scary.
- [40:37]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It's scary.
- [40:38]
Patti LaBelle
It's totally scary because you don't know who's going to blame you for the breakup. You know, at that time, I didn't know.
- [40:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. But also, don't you? It's sort of like, who am I without?
- [40:47]
Patti LaBelle
You know, it's so many things.
- [40:50]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So many things.
- [40:51]
Patti LaBelle
So many things go through your mind.
- [40:53]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right.
- [40:54]
Patti LaBelle
And so you have to, like, deal with it and that my way of dealing was to see somebody. I had to get help.
- [41:00]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart. There's much more with Patti LaBelle after this break. Don't go anywhere. By now, almost everyone knows about Airbnb. You can use them to book incredible stays in interesting homes and cultivated spaces. And even better, you can actually offer your space on Airbnb. Becoming an official Airbnb Host Millions of people host on Airbnb, sharing their space with guests who are so excited to stay there. You might be planning to travel for a few weeks out of the year. It might just be for a few days or for a long weekend, or perhaps it's a couple of weeks, weeks away for a family reunion. Think about those times away and picture listing your space on Airbnb. It could be an opportunity for you to turn those situations into a practical and even profitable one. You might be thinking, my place couldn't be an Airbnb, but that's not true. If you're concerned about the time commitment, you could give it one try and see how it goes. It's a practical way to keep using the space even when you're not there. So if you're curious about hosting on Airbnb, find out how much your space could be worth by visiting Airbnb. Airbnb.com host it could be the start of a whole new chapter for your home. Go to airbnb.com host your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host overspending during the holidays feels inevitable between buying gifts, planning parties, traveling, and even going out to eat. That's where Acorns comes in. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing for you, your kids, and your retirement. Retirement. Even during the holidays, you don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you. And you can get bonus investments just for buying the stuff you need from the brands you love. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now. That could be $5 a day or even just your spare change. That's right. Acorns can round every purchase you make up to the dollar and automatically invest your spare change for you. Buying stocking stuffers this year. More money in your investment account today and now Acorns is helping you build your financial future so you can focus on your holiday shopping, parties, travel or whatever. You don't need a ton of time. You can create your Acorns account and start automatically investing your money in just five minutes. Learning how to be smart with your finances is so important, and that's why Acorn's mission of taking the guesswork out of investing has resonated with so many people. You can invest just by rounding up your everyday purchases like when you grab coffee or order takeout, giving those small investments a chance to grow. Head to acorns.com wiser or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk Acorns Advisors, LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures@acorns.com wiser being a dog Parent is the best, isn't it? The companionship, the sweet energy they bring to our lives can feel so simple and wonderful. But being a dog parent can also be complex. Even day to day things like dog food aren't straightforward. Most foods in the pet aisle are extremely processed, low in protein, high in carbs and full of artificial stuff that no species needs to thrive. The good news is Maeve is radically different. Their raw food for dogs is made with real human grade ingredients like USDA beef, chicken breast, kale, zucchini, green beans and even blueberries. And that's it. It's bite sized and ready for your dog to eat right out of the bag. No mess, no prep, just rip open, pour and serve. You want the best for your dog and feeding them a better diet is an investment in their health, longevity and prevents future vet visits. Maeve is the first and only human grade raw food for dogs made with real ingredients you can name just by looking. Who else can say their dog looks and acts like they're aging backwards just because they changed their diet? Make the switch to raw today. Right now, maeve is offering 20% off your first order at meetmaeve.com wiser that's spelled M A E V. Go to meetmaeve.com wiser to receive 20% off your first order. That's meet M A E V.com wiser wiser than me season three is available ad free when you subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You'll also get access to exclusive interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now in the Apple Podcast app. So Patti, what was it like earlier in your career, touring in the South, Because, I mean, on one hand, you're building up this fan base and a name for yourself, but on the other hand, it's the height of Jim Crow.
- [46:18]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah. It was big that we traveled in a station wagon, you know, throughout the South. And there were times when we couldn't get a hotel, so we stayed in the station wagon. We would buy our tuna and chocolate candy bars and whatever and just stay in the station wagon because there were no hotels that were going to really let us board. Wow. In the south, there were some black hotels, you know, that we would find, but we were not allowed about to dwell in those. The white hotels. So we spend a lot of time in the station wagon. And we realized that for us, that was all there was. And so you take it or you leave it. You fight it or you settle. So we had to settle because we couldn't change the laws, you know, and it didn't take anything away from us as far as our performance. We still worked. But you really have to know that there was a big, big, big difference in white acts and black acts. And what it did for us was just grew us up.
- [47:29]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, I bet. Really quickly.
- [47:31]
Patti LaBelle
It did.
- [47:31]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Really quickly.
- [47:32]
Patti LaBelle
It grew us up, you know, so when we. When we did our thing, we did it with knowing that there was going to be a lot of rejection. And you live with it or you fight it. It made us stronger. That's what I'm saying. Every lesson wasn't a negative ending.
- [47:48]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [47:49]
Patti LaBelle
Every lesson that we dealt with grew us up.
- [47:53]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Patti LaBelle
And realized that we're not going to be treated the way we want to be treated all the time, you know, so the way you're treated is the way you're going to live with and the way you're going to expect. And then when it changes, that's like a big old rose. Oh, it wasn't so bad that night, but, you know, that wasn't often. So we did that, and we did it knowing what we were going to go into.
- [48:14]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [48:14]
Patti LaBelle
We knew it was going to be great all the time.
- [48:17]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And it must have just. You must have formed a bond with those women like no other. Right.
- [48:24]
Patti LaBelle
We created this love for each other. I mean, that we weren't going to get from most people traveling. So we just grew to hold on to each other and to make each other laugh and play jokes on each other and. And just have fun, you know, because what we had to do to get there wasn't always great.
- [48:42]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right. Right. Wow.
- [48:44]
Patti LaBelle
God.
- [48:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I mean, you've nurtured relationships with so many artists like Jennifer Hudson and Fantasia. God, I love Fantasia. And Mariah Carey. And you said that you didn't want them to make the same mistakes you made. What are some of the important lessons that you've learned in your life that you shared with them? Them?
- [49:03]
Patti LaBelle
Of course I share with all of them. What we went through at beginning of our careers. LaBelle, Patti LaBelle and the Blue Bells, the things that we went through in the south, the things that we took for granted would come for us, and it never did. But you. You tell all these. Like, I. I talk to them. Fantasia, Jennifer, Mariah, like you said, all my little girls. And they. They will call me every now and then for information, for just some kind of something that I've gone through that they might be going through.
- [49:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Interesting.
- [49:36]
Patti LaBelle
And so I'm like a godmother. Yeah, Godmother.
- [49:41]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. And you've always been very. I mean, you've had an incredible eye for spotting talent. Right. Like Luther Vandross, by the way.
- [49:49]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, yes.
- [49:50]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And Elton John.
- [49:51]
Patti LaBelle
And Elton John. Yeah. It's. Luther was our first fan club president, but he would come to the Apollo Theater with clothes for us.
- [49:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Patti LaBelle
So I said, oh, who is this man with all these gowns? He had, like, four gowns. They were pink and gray. Beautiful gowns. And so, of course, we. He had all of our sizes and everything, really. And so I said, well, what else do you do other than bring clothes? He said, I sing. I said, oh, really? And so I said, sing. And he sang. I said, honey, you shouldn't be pedaling these clothes. You should have a microphone and go out and make yourself a living with your voice. And then we became good friends, and he became our first fan club president.
- [50:36]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And then. And then did he launch his own career after that?
- [50:40]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah, because he was singing a lot. Backgrounds with different people at the time. I think that we met him, I'm not sure. But he ended up making his own life, the best life for him. Singing. Not background, but singing lead.
- [50:55]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, of course. And I'm so struck by your generosity. Who modeled all this generosity for you? Who was generous with you the way you are so generous with others?
- [51:06]
Patti LaBelle
My mother.
- [51:07]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [51:07]
Patti LaBelle
And my father. Yes. They were very giving people.
- [51:12]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [51:12]
Patti LaBelle
And. And my sisters were also very, very much givers. And so I took a lot of that from them.
- [51:22]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Hey, listen, when the Nightbirds came out in 1974. Right. And that was the first huge, big hit album for you guys, and the lead single was Lady Marmalade, you know, I have to tell you something. That is such a formative tune, I mean, as it is for millions of people. But I was 13 when that song came out, and I couldn't. Couldn't believe that song. It was so sexy. And I used to sing that. And you could sing it because it was in French, so you could kind of get away with it. And I just remember feeling so kind of like. What's the word? Like a rebel singing that tune loud in my house. You know what I mean? Along with you guys, did you know it was going to be a hit?
- [52:08]
Patti LaBelle
I knew it was going to be a hit, but I didn't know what Vouli Ricochet evergrande meant.
- [52:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Get out of town.
- [52:14]
Patti LaBelle
I'm serious, honey. I had no clue. It meant, Will you sleep with me tonight? So when we heard it, when we went to Allen Toussaint to record Nightbirds, I said, let's make this our first song to record for this album. As the song was recorded, we knew it was a hit. And after it was out, we had some interesting people saying, wow, why are they singing about a hooker? It was nuns talking about, ooh, that group is not nice. We're singing about hookers. I had no clue what fooly vous meant. And so we.
- [52:50]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Amazing.
- [52:51]
Patti LaBelle
We got a little.
- [52:53]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
A little blowback for that. Yeah. But who cares?
- [52:56]
Patti LaBelle
Continued to sing it. Yeah. You know, it's like I said, a lady Marmalade hooker is a hooker. I'm not, but I'm singing it. Yes. So it was a very interesting song.
- [53:09]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, it's a great song. It's incredible. LaBelle did the gay bathhouse circuit. Right. And also. So. Yeah. And also the first black group to play Metropolitan Opera House.
- [53:20]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [53:22]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Which is incredible. I saw that poster. I just thought, that poster for that show is so beautiful. It's. It's bananas.
- [53:30]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, gosh. We were at the Metropolitan Opera House, the first black group to play.
- [53:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes.
- [53:36]
Patti LaBelle
And the show was called Wear Something Silver. And so everybody came with silver out outfits. The Cycle Sluts, they came. It was some. I don't know if Cher was there that night, but that's when I think I came from the ceiling flying down, singing Night Birds. And we just had a crazy, wonderful night at the Metropolitan Opera House. And we did play the Bath Houses.
- [54:02]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I know you and Bette Midler did it.
- [54:05]
Patti LaBelle
Mittler. Yeah, we did that. Oh, and guess what happened.
- [54:10]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Tell me.
- [54:10]
Patti LaBelle
At the bath house.
- [54:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
What?
- [54:12]
Patti LaBelle
I went to the machine thinking it was bubble gum.
- [54:15]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, no.
- [54:15]
Patti LaBelle
And so we put money in. It was condoms. They look like bubble gum, things falling out. I said, what the hell is this?
- [54:23]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I hope you didn't put it in your mouth and try to chew it.
- [54:25]
Patti LaBelle
No, no, but it was Sarah. They laughed. They laughed so hard. Yeah. We were putting money in the machine, getting bubble gum, I thought.
- [54:34]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Did. Did you get blowback for that? For playing in bath houses?
- [54:38]
Patti LaBelle
Never did we get blowback for playing in bath houses.
- [54:40]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Good.
- [54:41]
Patti LaBelle
At least I don't know about it, right? I don't think so.
- [54:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
But, I mean, you. You have been so accepting of the gay community from way back in the day, and maybe at a time when it was not as widely acceptable to be gay. Right. But you were. You were.
- [54:58]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah. I have had a gay following from the beginning. Sarah, now, and myself and Cindy, we had a gay following.
- [55:05]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [55:06]
Patti LaBelle
Which I take as a compliment, of course.
- [55:09]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, without question. And I think I have a gay following, too, by the way. I think I have a. I bet you do. I don't know how to make that determine. Oh, I'm being told that I do. Good.
- [55:20]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [55:20]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So we have that in common. And I'm grateful for it. Patty, I. I learned this fact about you that just blew me away. So here you are at the top of your game. But in your 40s, you used to say farewell to your fans after every show because you really believed you would not live beyond 50, right, because I.
- [55:41]
Patti LaBelle
Given all my sisters. Yeah. I thought all your sisters, that it wouldn't last long. Yes, I did.
- [55:47]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And your friend Claudette, too, who passed away young. Right. Patti, can you talk about living with that at the time of your mammoth success? Because they bump up against each other, don't they? The feeling of, I'm not going to make it. But you've made it. At the same time, as an artist.
- [56:10]
Patti LaBelle
Of course you would think that. I mean, after I turned a certain age, I would say, well, am I next as far as going through what my sisters went through?
- [56:20]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's right.
- [56:21]
Patti LaBelle
And when I turned a certain age, I just said, well, God is with me when it's my turn, it's my time.
- [56:29]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Is that. But is that when you turned 50? I think.
- [56:32]
Patti LaBelle
Is that right after I turned 50, yes. And I just said every day something could happen. And it didn't.
- [56:42]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It didn't.
- [56:43]
Patti LaBelle
And I'm still standing, you know, So I just thank God for all the time that I have and all the time that I have left.
- [56:52]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And so. But you had a lot of anxiety about it, and then all of a sudden it seems like that anxiety just.
- [56:58]
Patti LaBelle
It left it.
- [56:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Left it Just left.
- [57:00]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [57:01]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's good.
- [57:02]
Patti LaBelle
The anxiety left. Yes, it did.
- [57:05]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Maybe it was just the marker of getting past a certain age. Yeah. I had a. I lost my sister, actually, and she was 44. If you could really.
- [57:17]
Patti LaBelle
Oh, yes, she.
- [57:19]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I know.
- [57:20]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah.
- [57:20]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
That's why I was so struck by that.
- [57:22]
Patti LaBelle
In your life, what did she pass from?
- [57:26]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
She was just really ill and. Yeah.
- [57:29]
Patti LaBelle
Sorry.
- [57:30]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
So. Yeah. Really tragic. But it is. It so upends your life because it's not the way the world is supposed to work.
- [57:40]
Patti LaBelle
No, it's not.
- [57:40]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
It's not the order of things. And that's why it's hard to kind of. Well, that's why you're frightened.
- [57:47]
Patti LaBelle
That's why it's natural. It's natural.
- [57:50]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. It's natural because it doesn't feel. It's natural to be frightened because it's so unnatural.
- [57:57]
Patti LaBelle
Unnatural. And never know when it's going to happen.
- [58:00]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right, exactly. Right.
- [58:02]
Patti LaBelle
Well, I'm sorry.
- [58:04]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Thank you. I'm sorry for you, too.
- [58:06]
Patti LaBelle
Thank you.
- [58:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I'm sorry for you too.
- [58:08]
Patti LaBelle
Thank you.
- [58:09]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Anna, you've been very open about. About when your sister Jackie passed away. And you've come to terms with what? Do you mind talking about that right now?
- [58:18]
Patti LaBelle
Well, she wanted me to prepare her lunch. Egg sandwich. Fried egg sandwich, because I made great sandwiches. And she was around the corner at the hospital.
- [58:31]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [58:31]
Patti LaBelle
Where I lived at the time. I've moved since then. And my aunt was at the hospital with her. And so that's the day I had gotten back from touring. And so I was kind of tired. I said, can I make it tomorrow? And she said, yes. And tomorrow comes and my aunt calls and says, your sister's gone.
- [58:52]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, God.
- [58:53]
Patti LaBelle
So I didn't get a chance. Yeah. That's not good.
- [59:01]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
No. But you've forgiven yourself for that. And she knows that you love her, doesn't she, Patty?
- [59:09]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. She knew it.
- [59:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. She knew it.
- [59:12]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah.
- [59:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [59:14]
Patti LaBelle
But you just think about things you didn't do.
- [59:16]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Right. But isn't that always the case when you lose people you love?
- [59:20]
Patti LaBelle
There are things that you said you could have done.
- [59:23]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, of course. Believe me. And I say the same thing, believe me, with my own sister. But at the end of the day, you were a.
- [59:32]
Patti LaBelle
At the end of the day, I realized that she was my love. Yes.
- [59:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah.
- [59:41]
Patti LaBelle
I'm sorry for crying.
- [59:43]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
No, that's okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make you cry.
- [59:46]
Patti LaBelle
No, it's just the way it is.
- [59:51]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And now you feel. I believe. I hope that you have peace about. About that. Yeah.
- [59:58]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah, I. It's hard to talk about. When I think I can talk about it, then I realize I really can't.
- [60:06]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, it catches you. It's like a. It's like being hit from behind or something. Yeah, I understand that.
- [60:13]
Patti LaBelle
Yes.
- [60:14]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Well, Patty, is there something that you would go back and tell yourself at age 21?
- [60:24]
Patti LaBelle
At age 21, I would have said to myself, don't be so afraid. Don't be so shy. Don't be so scared. Not scared, but scared. Don't be so scared. Just know that your life is going to turn out all right, you know? And I have lived to see that.
- [60:42]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, you have.
- [60:42]
Patti LaBelle
That I'm all right.
- [60:44]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, you're all right.
- [60:45]
Patti LaBelle
Yes. Baby.
- [60:47]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Is there something you would go back and say yes to?
- [60:51]
Patti LaBelle
That's a good question that I could think of. No.
- [60:56]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Really?
- [60:56]
Patti LaBelle
No. No.
- [60:59]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
You've said yes to everything you wanted to say yes to?
- [61:02]
Patti LaBelle
I wanted to say yes to. I love that because everything that I say yes to made me feel good. And it was age appropriate. Yeses.
- [61:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes. Is there something you're looking forward to?
- [61:14]
Patti LaBelle
More life?
- [61:15]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. I was going to say graduating to 81.
- [61:17]
Patti LaBelle
Graduating. Yeah. My graduation. 81.
- [61:21]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Your graduation in May. Because you're a Gemini, correct?
- [61:24]
Patti LaBelle
May 24th.
- [61:25]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Nice. Is there something that you would like to tell me about aging, Patty?
- [61:33]
Patti LaBelle
Just don't be afraid of it. Don't be afraid of turning whatever you're going to turn to be older. Some people live to be nervous about turning certain ages. Just don't. Just accept it. You made it. So don't be afraid of life.
- [61:49]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. And that seems like a really lived thing for you, Patty. I mean, you were actually scared to turn certain ages, and you aren't anymore. It's good advice. Is there something you wish that you'd spent less time on, Patty?
- [62:05]
Patti LaBelle
No.
- [62:07]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
See, I think you've had the perfect life.
- [62:09]
Patti LaBelle
I can't say that I've had the perfect life, Julia. I could say that I've had a nice life and a life that I.
- [62:16]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Don'T regret, but I call that a perfect life. A nice life that you don't regret. You know, not a lot of people can say that, Patti LaBelle. I know.
- [62:24]
Patti LaBelle
I know it. A lot of people are.
- [62:26]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And you can say it.
- [62:27]
Patti LaBelle
Yeah, I can say it and mean it.
- [62:29]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. Oh, my God. It's been such a delight to talk with you. You are just the most wonderful human being.
- [62:38]
Patti LaBelle
I had a feeling that it would be like this with you and I. And I'm so pleased have spoken with you and thank you so much, honey.
- [62:56]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, wow. Wow, what a life Patty LaBelle has lived. Okay, let's get my mom on the zoom. Can't wait to talk to her about this conversation. Hi, Mommy. I have to turn your audio on. Yeah, what's the problem?
- [63:15]
Judith Bowles
I've got Garrison Keeler on and I.
- [63:18]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Can'T turn him off on your phone.
- [63:20]
Judith Bowles
I can't find where it's coming from.
- [63:22]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Okay, so it's just playing. You don't know why. Do you want to just turn your phone off?
- [63:26]
Judith Bowles
Yeah.
- [63:27]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Garrison Keeler, once again, ruining the podcast.
- [63:31]
Judith Bowles
Okay, all gone.
- [63:33]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Nice.
- [63:34]
Judith Bowles
Hi, love.
- [63:34]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Hi, Mommy. Hi. Hi. So guess what? Today we talked to Patti LaBelle. Yes, the wonderful Patti LaBelle. And remember, she had that big hit back in 1974. It was called Lady Marmalade, but the tune was Voulez, Vous couchez avec moi sur soit. Do you remember that?
- [63:54]
Judith Bowles
Oh, I do remember that. Oh, yes, yes, yes.
- [63:57]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
And I used to sing that all the time because it was so naughty, of course. And I thought I was like, you know, pushing the edge of the envelope.
- [64:09]
Judith Bowles
I mean, my God, you were.
- [64:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, I was. Will you sleep with me tonight? I mean, that was very dirty. Were there any dirty songs like. Well, not like that, but. What was considered dirty when you were growing up?
- [64:22]
Judith Bowles
Well, we. We used to do these.
- [64:26]
Patti LaBelle
The exercises.
- [64:27]
Judith Bowles
You know, we'd go, we must, we must, we must increase our bust the boys, the boys, the boys depend on us.
- [64:38]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I don't think that was a top 40 hit.
- [64:41]
Judith Bowles
No, no, it wasn't. It didn't make it, but it was a good hometown thing. It was good in Columbus, Ohio.
- [64:48]
Patti LaBelle
It was.
- [64:49]
Judith Bowles
Made all the charts. I don't think there were any. It was such a. We were such a quiet generation, you know? I can't think of a single song that would bring a blush to anybody's cheek.
- [65:09]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
When I was in high or in junior high, it was, we must, we must, we must increase our bust the bigger, the better the tighter the sweater the boys depend on us.
- [65:20]
Judith Bowles
That's another one. Yes, that.
- [65:22]
Patti LaBelle
That.
- [65:22]
Judith Bowles
That got very complicated once it got eased.
- [65:29]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Well, it's such an unfortunate rhyme in every. On every level.
- [65:34]
Judith Bowles
Exactly, exactly.
- [65:35]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I hope. I hope we haven't brought it back into popularity by mentioning it on the show.
- [65:39]
Judith Bowles
I'm so sorry about that. We can.
- [65:41]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I know. I am, too. I have huge regrets right now.
- [65:43]
Judith Bowles
But Back to Patti LaBelle.
- [65:45]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yes. She just turned 80 this past year, and her son threw us through her surprise party with everybody she's ever worked with in her entire Life showed up to this party in New York and it was a very, very big deal. But it reminds me of when. Mommy. Remember when I had the surprise party and you told me about it? Do you remember?
- [66:10]
Judith Bowles
I know. That made me feel so bad. I'm so sorry.
- [66:13]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean bring it up to make you feel bad. It's fine. It's a great family. Lord, your story.
- [66:20]
Judith Bowles
I know. How did I tell it? Did you slip out or did I. Did I?
- [66:23]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, I just slipped out. You said you. We. I think. I think what was going to happen was Brad was going to take me away somewhere, if I'm remembering this correctly. And you and Daddy had come to take care of the kids while we were going to go somewhere and we were about to leave, and you said something like, well, see you in Santa Barbara later, like that. Because that's where the surprise party was.
- [66:55]
Judith Bowles
I know. Oh, dear. Did you pretend it was a surprise or did you just say I had ruined the whole thing? Or how'd you work that out?
- [67:03]
Patti LaBelle
I can't remember.
- [67:03]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Well, I mean, I knew something was gonna happen, but I didn't know what the extent of it was.
- [67:08]
Judith Bowles
And you didn't know it would be there and everything.
- [67:11]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah, exactly. I didn't know what this. What it was gonna to unfold to be. So I was obviously surprised by that. And it was such a joyful occasion. It didn't. It didn't really matter at all. And this all reminds me very much of Patti LaBelle, in fact, because she's somebody who's gone through a lot, but she's really, really happy in her life. She's very at ease with who she is. So I think she was definitely happy to be celebrated as she should be. That thing of having a party celebrating your life and you like. And you get to sort of sit back and look at it and assuming you're happy or relatively even. Not even just happy happy, just reasonably happy with where you are. That's a lot to be celebrated, you know.
- [67:54]
Judith Bowles
Of course it is. It is. For sure.
- [67:56]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Yeah. And then.
- [67:57]
Judith Bowles
And then to be singing. I mean, how wonderful, wonderful that she is still singing.
- [68:02]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
I know. It was an incredible honor to be able to talk to her. No doubt. All right, Mommy. Well, so long. Oh, there's the front door. I have to go, Mommy. I've got the gate, guys, here to fix the gate.
- [68:14]
Judith Bowles
Oh, okay, good, good. Well, I love you and I'll see you soon.
- [68:18]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Okay. I love you. Love you. Thank you for talking with us so.
- [68:21]
Judith Bowles
Happy to be here.
- [68:22]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
Bye, Mommy.
- [68:23]
Judith Bowles
Love you.
- [68:24]
Patti LaBelle
Bye bye.
- [68:34]
Julia Louis Dreyfus
There's more Wiser Than Me with Lemonade Premium on Apple, you can listen to every episode of Season three ad free. Subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the Wiser Than Me podcast logo in the Apple Podcasts app and then hitting the subscribe button. Make sure you're following Wiser Than Me on social media. We're on Instagram and TikTok at wiser than Me and we're on Facebook at Wiser Than Me podcast. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonade Media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. This show is produced by Chrissy Pease, Jamilah Zirah Williams, Alex McEwen and Oja Lopez. Brad hall is a consulting producer, Rachel Neal is VP of New Content and our SVP of Weekly Content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Paula Kaplan, Stephanie Whittles, Wax, Jessica Cordova, Kramer, and me. The show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans with engineering help from James Farber, and our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Will Schlegel and of course my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than Me wherever you get your podcasts. And if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up.
- [70:03]
Garrison Keillor
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