Listen Again: Julia Gets Wise with Diane von Furstenberg

Summary

Wiser Than Me™ Episode Summary: Julia Gets Wise with Diane von Furstenberg

Podcast Information:

• Title: Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus
• Host: Julia Louis-Dreyfus
• Guest: Diane von Furstenberg
• Episode Title: Listen Again: Julia Gets Wise with Diane von Furstenberg
• Release Date: May 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the Season 3 episode of Wiser Than Me™, Julia Louis-Dreyfus welcomes fashion icon Diane von Furstenberg for an engaging and insightful conversation. This episode delves deep into Diane's illustrious career, her philosophy on fashion and life, and personal anecdotes that reveal the wisdom she has garnered over decades.

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Personal Anecdotes: Julia’s Childhood and the Bobby Sherman Story [00:01 - 05:58]

Julia opens the episode with a heartfelt and humorous story from her childhood, sharing her early admiration for Bobby Sherman, a teen idol of the time. At eight years old, Julia penned a personal love letter to Bobby Sherman, complete with a photograph in a "bikini and go-go boots," convinced it would cement their lifelong bond. Despite her mother's laughter and refusal to indulge her plan, Julia reflects on how this experience was her first encounter with the "power of a look" and its lasting impact on her perception of fashion.

Notable Quote:

"I knew in my heart that when Bobby saw this picture and read my note, we would be together for the rest of our lives. We were meant to be together." — Julia Louis-Dreyfus [04:30]

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Diane von Furstenberg’s Introduction and Impact on Fashion [05:58 - 08:11]

Julia introduces Diane von Furstenberg, highlighting her over five decades at the forefront of the fashion industry. Diane is celebrated not only for her iconic wrap dress but also for her philanthropic efforts, including founding the DVF Awards and supporting women's cancer research. Julia emphasizes Diane's role in empowering women through fashion, making her a pioneering brand long before the concept became ubiquitous.

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The Iconic Wrap Dress and Its Personal Significance [08:11 - 11:56]

The conversation shifts to the legendary wrap dress, a creation that transformed both Diane's career and Julia's personal style. Julia recounts how wearing Diane's wrap dress in her teenage years boosted her confidence during a time when societal standards emphasized extreme thinness. Diane appreciates Julia's candidness and the mutual admiration they share for the dress.

Notable Quote:

"The wrap dress created me because it gave me my freedom, it gave me my independence, it gave me my identity." — Diane von Furstenberg [12:05]

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Aging and Embracing Change [11:56 - 15:16]

Diane and Julia delve into the subject of aging, with Diane proposing a refreshing perspective by suggesting the term "living" instead of "aging." She believes that age is a testament to a life fully lived, emphasizing that every year adds to one's character and experience.

Notable Quote:

"Age is life. So instead of saying, how old are you? People should say, how long have you lived." — Diane von Furstenberg [14:33]

Diane shares her journey of achieving significant milestones by her late twenties, leading her to erroneously believe that life's accomplishments would plateau. However, she discovered that life continues to offer growth and new opportunities.

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Fashion Staples and Personal Style Philosophy [15:16 - 18:28]

Julia inquires about essential wardrobe pieces, sparking Diane to discuss the importance of authenticity in fashion. Diane emphasizes that clothing should reflect one's true self, offering comfort and confidence. She notes that while the wrap dress is a staple, individual preferences vary, and each person should find what best accentuates their unique morphology.

Notable Quote:

"The most important thing is to be true to yourself. As long as you're true to yourself, you are free." — Diane von Furstenberg [18:00]

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Leadership, Empowerment, and Personal Challenges [24:12 - 31:18]

Transitioning to leadership, Diane describes herself not as a traditional leader but as an "inspirer." She believes that true leadership stems from self-commitment and self-reliance. Diane shares her mother's survival story from Auschwitz, highlighting how her mother's strength instilled in her a fearless and resilient character.

When discussing personal challenges, Diane opens up about her diagnosis with cancer 28 years ago. She credits her ability to handle such adversity to her upbringing, which taught her to face obstacles head-on without succumbing to fear.

Notable Quote:

"The only thing you have complete control of is your character. You never lose your character." — Diane von Furstenberg [28:48]

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Relaxation and Mindfulness Practices [31:18 - 34:14]

Julia and Diane discuss their methods for relaxation and maintaining mental well-being. Diane elaborates on her love for solitude, nature, and meditation, particularly her practice of swimming in the ocean as a form of deep meditation. She explains how these practices help her achieve a state of mindfulness and peace.

Notable Quote:

"Swimming a lot in the ocean... I go into deep meditation. That is probably the most restorative thing." — Diane von Furstenberg [31:55]

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Dealing with Fear and Vulnerability [34:14 - 41:58]

The discussion moves to the concept of aging gracefully and embracing vulnerability. Diane reframes "aging gracefully" as "living gracefully," advocating for self-acceptance and authenticity. She shares insights on how facing fears and owning vulnerabilities can transform them into strengths.

Reflecting on Julia's experience with cancer, Diane emphasizes the importance of sharing one's struggles to inspire and support others. She believes that acknowledging vulnerability publicly can be a powerful tool for empowerment.

Notable Quote:

"Aging is a proof of living. It's a continuation of life." — Diane von Furstenberg [15:12]

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Reflections on Success, Struggles, and Legacy [39:48 - 48:42]

In the latter part of the conversation, Diane discusses the challenges she faced even after achieving success, including financial struggles and personal hardships. She highlights how negative experiences can become valuable anecdotes for future endeavors, such as writing books or giving talks.

When asked about her legacy, Diane shares her vision for Venice as a hub for elevated discourse and think tanks, showcasing her forward-thinking mindset. Julia expresses admiration for Diane's relentless drive and inspirational mindset, affirming her commitment to continue their remarkable journeys.

Notable Quote:

"Everything about my life... like, for example, now I have this vision that Venice should be a place where we kind of elevate the debate and where people meet." — Diane von Furstenberg [47:01]

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Final Thoughts and Personal Reflections [48:16 - 49:08]

As the episode concludes, Julia engages in a light-hearted conversation with her mother, Judith Bowles, reminiscing about the first wrap dresses and sharing humorous anecdotes about fashion choices. This segment underscores the generational impact of Diane's designs and the enduring legacy of the wrap dress.

Notable Quote:

"I like the lived. I never wanted to be a little girl. I always wanted to be a woman. I always aged myself." — Diane von Furstenberg [19:09]

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Conclusion

The episode of Wiser Than Me™ featuring Diane von Furstenberg offers a profound exploration of life, fashion, and personal growth. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Diane imparts invaluable wisdom on embracing authenticity, overcoming adversity, and living a fulfilling life. Julia's engaging storytelling and Diane's inspirational insights make for a compelling listen that resonates with audiences seeking guidance and empowerment.

Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity in Fashion: Emphasizing the importance of dressing true to oneself to foster confidence and independence.
• Redefining Aging: Viewing age as a testament to a life fully lived, focusing on growth and accumulated wisdom.
• Embracing Vulnerability: Transforming personal struggles and fears into strengths and sources of inspiration.
• Leadership Through Inspiration: Leading by inspiring others rather than traditional hierarchical methods.
• Resilience and Character: Building and maintaining character as the cornerstone of navigating life's challenges.

Notable Quotes:

1. "Age is life. So instead of saying, how old are you? People should say, how long have you lived." — Diane von Furstenberg [14:33]
2. "The most important thing is to be true to yourself. As long as you're true to yourself, you are free." — Diane von Furstenberg [18:00]
3. "Aging is a proof of living. It's a continuation of life." — Diane von Furstenberg [15:12]
4. "Everything about my life... like, for example, now I have this vision that Venice should be a place where we kind of elevate the debate and where people meet." — Diane von Furstenberg [47:01]

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About Wiser Than Me™

Wiser Than Me™ is an award-winning podcast hosted by Julia Louis-Dreyfus, featuring personal and heartfelt conversations with iconic older women who share their wisdom and unapologetic attitudes. Each episode aims to inspire listeners to laugh, cry, and gain insights from extraordinary life experiences.

Transcript

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hey, listeners, it's me, Julia. We're back for season three of Wiser Than Me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the legendary old ladies featured this season. You know, so many of our guests have written memoirs reflecting on their experiences, and by putting it all into writing, they've uncovered a better understanding of what truly matters. Jane Fonda calls it a life review and wisely says, to know where you want to go, you. You first have to understand where you've been. So brilliant. Right? That's why we've created a special Wiser Than Me notebook so you can kickstart your own life review and write down some of the nuggets of wisdom these women share in each new episode. We just added these groovy hardcover notebooks to our merch shop. To buy yours, head over to wiserthanmeshop.com today. Lemonade. So the big debate when I was 8 or 9 years old was, do you love Bobby Sherman or do you love David Cassidy? These guys were the absolute teen idols of the time, and everybody loved one or the other. Naturally, for me, it was Bobby Sherman. I didn't like Bobby Sherman. I loved Bobby Sherman. He was incredibly, indescribably handsome. He was on a TV show called Here Come the Brides, and he had this full mop of gorgeous hair that was sort of all combed in one direction across his forehead. I mean, really, it was just like the Beatles, which was, of course, irresistible. And he wore these kind of big, blousy, very groovy shirts. And he was be still my beating heart. Perfect. And Bobby had a big hit song called Julie. Do you love me? Julie, Julie, Julie, do you love me? Julie, Julie, Julie, do you care? Julie, Julie, are you thinking of me? Julie, Julie, will you still be there? I mean, I didn't like being called Julie because my name is Julia. But Bobby didn't know that when he wrote that song for me. He and I were meant to be together if there had just been some way for us to meet. So at the age of eight, I decided I would write a letter to Bobby Sherman. Not a fan letter, but a personal love letter. I can't remember now all the details of my letter, but I certainly can remember how it opened because it was so fucking clever. It went like this. Dear Bobby, I think you're really cute. How's that for a start? Question mark with a heart at the bottom of the question mark instead of a period, because that's what the cool second graders did back then. But the real clincher, I was going to enclose a photograph. A photograph that was guaranteed, God damn guaranteed to make him love me back. Now, at this time in my life, I had two items of clothing in my closet that I knew were can't miss sure things. The first was a two piece pink ruffle gingham bathing suit with bottoms that went all the way up to my waist. In my mind, this was of course a bikini. I have recently looked at some pictures of me in the aforementioned bikini and honestly, with the ruffles on the back, it looks like I'm still wearing a diaper. It really does. The second item from my closet, a pair of vinyl white almost knee high. Go go boots. Do you hear what I just said? Go go boots. I knew that either one of these would probably have been enough to seal the deal with Bobby. But together, the bikini and the boots, forget it. He was as good as mine. So I put on my bikini and my go go boots and I walked my 8 year old ass downstairs with a camera. And I told my mom that I needed her to take a picture of me because I wanted to send it along with my personal love letter to Bobby Sherman. You guys, do you see? You have to understand something. I knew. I just knew in my heart that when Bobby saw this picture and read my note, we would be together for. For the rest of our lives. We were meant to be together. So anyway, I asked my mom to take the picture and struck a pose. And she laughed. Which I have to say I'm still quite pissed about. She didn't even acknowledge the infallibility of my plan. She laughed and then she said no. Which of course makes sense now, considering I'd essentially asked her to help me send what they might now call a sext or worse. But back then I was so insulted I threw a proper tantrum. Big time. I may have been eight, but this was like a two year old on the floor screaming, pounding fists. Tantrum. I remember it so vividly. God, I was so mad. And it really is a shame that she didn't take that picture because God, I really wish I had it now. I was so fierce standing there in my bikini and go go boots. Convinced all I needed to make my dreams come true was this one special outfit. This was the first time I understood or really thought about the power of a look. I still feel that way when I put on the right dress for the Oscars or any red carpet show. Or feel exactly right in an outfit for a fucking hike. That's the power of fashion. How you feel inside of it.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

When you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

When everything is working and you know it. What a feeling. And so today, of course, we're talking to Diane von Furstenberg. Hi, I'm Julia Louis Dreyfus, and this is Wiser Than Me. A show where each week I get schooled by women who are wiser than me. Well, hold on to your freakin wrap dresses, people. Cause our guest today has been at the forefront of the fashion world for over five decades. And guess what? She's not done yet. Not even close. Remember how not that long ago, everything all of a sudden was a brand? Do you know what I mean? Shoes, computers, entertainment, people. Everything's like a brand now. Well, way before that, decades even. Diane von Furstenberg became one of the original brands by creating clothes that celebrate the strength and independence of women. She had the vision to see exactly where women wanted to go in fashion. And she turned that vision into a global empire where one chic little outfit at a time. And then she banked her success and she started doing all kinds of good for all kinds of people. She is the founder of the Diller von Furstenberg Family foundation, the DVF Awards, an incredible supporter of the Women's Cancer Research Fund, and is the former chairman of the Council of Fashion Designers of America. And so much more. She has the brains, the beauty, the confidence and the skill to make it in an industry that caters mainly to women, but is still most often run by men. She's willing to share herself with us as an author, designer, and philanthropist. So please welcome a woman who is wiser than me, Diane von Furstenberg. Hello.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Wow, that was quite an entrance.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, that's quite an entrance you've just made. So are you comfortable if I say your real age, Diane?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Oh, yes. I'm 76, but I really, really should be 300.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, because I've had a very full life. I've done a lot of things. Lots of struggles, lots of people, lots of. So I feel like there's no way I can make myself even a day younger because I feel like I have lived very much every moment.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, it's so nice. But how do you feel inside? What age do you feel? Do you feel 300? No way.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No. Well, I feel my age. I feel that I have lived every single day of my life. My life. In. In that life, in that short life, Even though I'm 76, I have piled up so much.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That I certainly could not feel any younger. I am who I am, so I.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Get the sense you love being your Age.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, I love, I love being alive.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That's how long I have been alive. So.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, yeah, yeah, got it. Of course I'm going to join the millions of people who want to talk about the wrap dress. So indulge me for a second. There's such a universality to the wrap dress. It changed my life, that wrap dress.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

What's your story?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay, here's my story. I was born in the early 60s. So by the time I became a teenager in the, you know, 70s, being super thin was the only way to be. And I was not. I was a little bit heavyset, but I had a small waist. Okay. And I'm going to tell you honestly that your dress was, I think, the first sort of fashiony thing that I wore that made me feel like, oh, I don't mind my body so much.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Oh, nice, that's good. And you were how old?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I'm going to say I was 16, 15.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Uh huh. Do you remember your first souvenir? Was it. What is it that you did in that dress?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I had multiple of your dresses. I had many of them. Here's one of my favorites, which I'm going to ask my team to pull up to show you on the computer right now. This is me in your dress.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Oh, you look hot.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

How about that? Diane von Furstenig said I look hot.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That's it. You look super hot. I need that picture.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I want a copy of that picture. It needs to go in my archive.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, absolutely. Let me tell you just for our listeners, I'm wearing, of course, the wrap dress and it's in the fabulous leopard print. And actually, you know where I was going, I was going to a Paul McCartney concert.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Wow.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. He was performing at some benefit or something in Los Angeles. And I wore this. And I think I even still have the bra that's underneath it. It's still in my possession.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You look hot.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Thank you. Oh, I'm so happy that you said this is my. That's made my week that you said that.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You look hot.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So listen, let's talk about clothes for a second. Diane, are there any staples you think a woman should have in her closet?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I think the most important thing is to be true to yourself and to like yourself as much as possible. So obviously be the staple should be what you are comfortable in and something that represents you at the best way or that allows you to be yourself, you know? And listen, when I created that dress, I had no idea that I would eventually sell tens of millions of them.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Unbelievable.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

But it did Something. It awakens things in people, and I don't know. So, you know, I mean, I created the wrap dress, but truly, it's the dress that created me because it gave me my freedom, it gave me my independence, it gave me my identity. So it's one of those things. But as far as I think every woman like you have a small waist, so wrap dresses obviously look good on you. I don't really have a small waist, so I go for more fluid. But every one of us finds something that we have a tendency to go to.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

To accentuate. Like, you mean.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. And it becomes your personality and your style. And so, you know, for dvf, it's about making clothes, you know, thinking about all the different morphology of a woman, you know, with the one who likes to accentuate the waist, the one who doesn't. Then therefore, you go fluid, and the ones who are very body calm, who like to show the entire body, then you deal with the fabric fabrication, that's so important. And then, of course, we have colors and we have prints. So in dvf, the colors are our letters, the prints are the words, the fabrication, and the silhouette makes the sentence nice.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But do you have other staples that you like in your closet? You know, I'm thinking of something like some people in the past have said to me, you, every woman needs to have a perfect white blouse or something. Do you think that's stupid, or do you think that makes sense?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, I don't think that's stupid. I don't think I have a white blouse, actually.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Do you want me to get you a white blouse?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, not particularly. You know, but I could tell you, I would say everybody needs a black turtleneck.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You know, this is good to know. Let's talk about aging and body changes and how to embrace all of that. How have you embraced all of that as you've gotten older?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Okay, first of all, the word aging. I would change the word aging and say living. Right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, thank you. That's perfect. Perfect.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Age is life.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

So instead of saying, how old are you? People should say, how long have you lived? Oh, my God.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, I'm going to change this.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And automatically it changes everything, even to a child. How long have you lived, little boy? I have lived 11 years. Wow, that's impressive.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And then if you ask an older person, I have lived 76 years. Wow. You know, so aging for me is life. It is not a decay.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

It's a continuation of life.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. It's a completely different framing, and I applaud It.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Right. So for me, aging is a proof of living. And also, if you have. If you manage to be my age. Well, it's already. I mean, I thought I was gonna die before I was 30. So.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You know why? Because I had done so much in my 20s that I didn't think that it was possible to continue like that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I see.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And so I thought that all these things. I had two children by the time I was 24. I had a successful business, I bought my house. So I did bas basically everything before I was 30. So I. I used to think that that was be the end, and then it turned out not to be.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. Wow. I. I love that framing. How. How long have you lived? I'm really going to apply that to my. The way I speak now. I think it's brilliant, actually. Well, then I'm gonna rephrase this question for you. Do you think there are things that women who have lived a long time should not wear? And here's why I asked you this question. Let me tell you something. So I was on a vacation, right? And you know how when you go on vacation and you go into a. You get sort of caught up in the culture of where you are and maybe. And what people are wearing and maybe it's in a different country or whatever. Anyway, long story short, I was in this shop, and they were selling these cute culottes. And I put them on, and I'd forgotten how. Cause I wore culottes when I was a little girl, but I had forgotten how unbelievably comfortable culottes were. And I was like, oh, my God, I think I've got to own these. But I wasn't sure, and I thought, oh, maybe this is just a moment. I'm going to put them on hold. I'm going to go have some lunch. So I put them on hold, and then I went to go have lunch, and I was thinking about should I buy them or not? And as I'm thinking about that, one of my teeth fell out of my mouth. I don't know why, but all of a sudden my tooth fell out. And I thought that was a sign that perhaps I had lived a little bit too long to start running around in culottes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Actually, I think you could wear culottes till you're 90.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What if you don't have any teeth in your mouth? No, I'm kidding. You think you can wear culottes until you're 90?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. I mean, it depends how short they are. I mean, I don't think you should Try to look sexy because that looks ridiculous.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You mean in culottes or generally speaking? What are you talking about?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, just in behavior. I think it's beautiful to live. To live who you are. And you are, you know, you are accumulation of all your life. So.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

The most. The most important thing is to be true to yourself. As long as you're true to yourself, you are free.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

By the way, you know, on your Instagram, the picture that you posted of yourself in your bathing suit, you look so beautiful and so strong, and I just wanted to applaud you for it. I just. I thought it was inspirational.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That was two years ago, I think. Yeah. For my 74th birthday.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. I have a tendency to think that, at least in my case, when I look at myself in the mirror, I find my strength there. So somehow when I look at myself in the mirror, I like it. And then sometimes I see a picture of me and I say, oh, my God, that's not how I feel.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What about this word? Well, again, I'm going to use this word aging, which I shouldn't, but I will. For this question, I wanted to ask you about that. You know that phrase, aging gracefully. I feel like there's a lot to unpack there because.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, just call it living with gracefully.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Living gracefully. Right. But it has a lot of different meanings to different people. And the idea of how to present yourself as a person who has lived a long time and, you know, and the judgment about plastic surgery or not to have plastic surgery and all that stuff.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I don't judge anyone. Everyone has the right to do whatever they want. Right. I have a tendency, since I'm a little girl to find a tiny bit destroyed, look attractive because it's lived, you know, So I like the lived. I never wanted to be a little girl. I always wanted to be a woman. I always aged myself. By the time I got to be 20, my mother said, how does it feel to be 20? And I remember I told her, I've been saying, I'm 20 for the last five years. So I've never wanted to be younger. I always look forward to being old.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I think that is incredible because I've had the exact same experience exactly. I always wanted to get older. I really did. It was like, even. I have to tell you, this is going to sound strange, but even when I started to develop as a teenager and my breasts started coming in and I noticed that they were very upright and I used to push them down because I wanted them to look like my mother's breasts, that would hang a little bit more and I would push them down because it drove me crazy. And it's funny you say that I.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Used to put Kleenex in my bra because I didn't have any breasts. So, you know, we never like what we are.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I know.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

More with Diane von Furstenberg after the break.

[Judith Bowles]

Hey prime members, did you know that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You can listen to Wiser Than Me Ad free on Amazon Music? Download the Amazon Music app today to.

[Judith Bowles]

Start listening ad free.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

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[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, I never really thought of me as a leader. I prefer to think that I'm an inspirer. You know, I prefer to inspire rather than lead.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But aren't you in charge, Diane?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yes, but you know, I mean, to be in charge is first and foremost a commitment to ourselves. It's owning who we are.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

We own our imperfection, they become assets. We own our vulnerability. We turn it into strength.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

So to be in charge and is really got to do with yourself. And everything has got to do with the relationship you have with yourself. Because the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself. Once you have that, any other relationship is a plus and not a must. And I never want to be needy ever to anyone. For me, the most important thing is to be self reliant. My children, I mean, for me, loving your children is making them independent. That's how you love your children because you equip them for life.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What would be a vulnerability that you would own that would then somehow become an asset?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I mean, you know, I mean, I was very successful, extremely Young, right. By 26, at 27, I was on the COVID of all the magazine. I mean, I was an entrepreneur. But you go up, you go up. What goes up must go down.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You face difficulties. You go through all kinds of things. And what is important is not to pretend you're not, but facing it, facing the obstacles, facing the difficulties and owning them and dealing with them. And then all of a sudden you turn them into assets.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I don't get the sense you hold back how you're feeling. Do you let people know how you're feeling?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You see, the thing that explains who I am is the fact that 18 months before I was born, my mother was liberated from auschwitz. She weighed 49 pounds. She was a skeleton in the midst of a field of ashes. She couldn't move. She could not move. She went back to Belgium. Her mother couldn't believe that she had survived. She was 21 years old. She fed her like a little bird every 10 minutes, and within six months, she looked normal. Her fiance, who had been in Switzerland, came. They met, they got married, and the doctor said, no matter what, you cannot have a child for at least two years because you will not make it and your child will not be normal. And sure enough, she got pregnant, and I was born nine months later. And in a sense, you could say I was not normal. But the fact that I was so close to that, my existence, my mere birth, was a triumph over misery. And therefore, just the fact that I was born was a triumph. I had won just because I was born. And my mother used to say, God saved me so that I can give you life. By giving you life, you gave me my life back. You are my torch of freedom. So I was born with a torch of freedom in my hands, which, as a little girl, could be difficult. My mother, for example, would never allow me to be afraid. If I was afraid of the dark, she would lock me in the dark closet today. She could be arrested for it. But she made me fearless, and I'm thankful that she did that. Wanted me to be a victim. Never be a victim, no matter what happens. And that's how you build your character. Because the only thing that you have complete control of, the only thing is your character. You could lose your health, you could lose your wealth, you could lose your job, you could lose your husband, you could lose your family, you could lose everything. But you never lose your character. You and that character is the little house inside yourself that is called strength.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And did you take those lessons that you learned from your mother, and did you apply them to being a mother yourself?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yes. And my mother was also alive when my children were growing up. My mother died. They were already both my children were parents.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, wow.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

She gave that survival strength to them as well. Yes. And we all have that incredible survival thing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Is there an example that you can recall in your life where you've confronted fear and looked it in the face and overcome it? Is there anything specific that you could tell us about?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I mean, I don't know. I mean, 28 years ago, I was diagnosed with cancer.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I mean, that's never pleasant.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

No.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And. But I dealt with it. You know, I say, okay, this is what happened. This is what the doctor can do. This is what I Can do. And I just dealt with it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And I mean, you know, my mother told me fear is not an option. So fear is always pushed away. Because, I mean, if you push the fear away, everything stays the same. But at least you could deal with that without the fear, you know?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And I have a new trick. A friend of mine lately was. She was going through very, very difficult medical tests and it was very painful. And she called me, she's in California, I'm in New York, and she calls me and it's 12 o' clock for me, and I don't know what to tell her. And so I don't know what happened to me. I said, you know what? Tomorrow when you do that and push your fear away, push your emotion and just go through it like you were watching a documentary. And the next day she called me and she said, you know, it was so helpful. So now that's my new trick, huh?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

It's stepping outside yourself and looking back in.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Changing your lens.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Changing your lens, Yeah. I had cancer too. And I was terrified. I didn't have your. Your mother's advice in my ear, but what I did do was take one step at a time.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Exactly.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I approached it as if it were something to be approached in manageable parts. And that's exactly what I did, you know? Yeah. Talk about relaxing. How do you relax? What do you do to relax?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Relax also is a weird word.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What should I say instead?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Empty. The noise, you know, it's empty. The corridor. Silence, solitude. That is what is the most restorative thing. So I need to be alone, I need to be in nature. Yes. Solitude, silence, all of that is very restorative.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, I find the same. I'm a big hiker and.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Me too. Yeah, me too.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

And if you go by yourself, it's an entirely different experience.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And swimming? I swim a lot.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

I swim a lot in the ocean. Very far. And therefore I'm alone between the sea and the sky. And I'm just this tiny little dot and I go into deep meditation. And that is probably the most restorative thing.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You know, I've taken up swimming recently too. Let me ask you something. What do you do about the sun when you're out there? Do you wear like a full body UV suit? I got one of those too. That blocks the sun because then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, otherwise I would burn because I swim two hours at the time. So I couldn't, I could not do that unless I wore something.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Two hours. My God in heaven. What does that mean? How many miles Are you going? That's a couple of miles, is it not?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, no, it's maybe one mile. Yeah, maybe one mile. I mean, we're very lucky. We have a boat. And so I go far in the ocean, in the sea, and there's a tiny little boat that follows me, but very far. And I go through all the meditation. I have these sutras that Deepak Choprato. So I have this routine that I go and by the time I'm finished with the whole routine and then they become prayers and then I talk about, I think about each one of my children, my grandchildren. So the whole ceremony of my meditation takes about an hour and a half because then I turn and I say, how long have I been in? And usually they say between an hour ten and another thirty and an hour. And then I stay a little longer.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Have you been meditating a long time? Your whole life?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

You know, I'm not. I should meditate more, more consciously. But I do empty my mind. Yes, I do that. Otherwise I couldn't be. I hate the noise. I don't like small talk. I don't like any of that. And I love nature. I mean, nature for me is everything. As long as I have nature on one side and my phone and the Internet, I don't need any.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

My conversation with Diane von Furstenberg continues after the break. Maybe your mom's always wanted to learn how to paint or write that novel or finally perfect her sourdough game this Mother's Day. Help her get started with Masterclass. Our parents taught us so much. Now they can learn from people they've always admired, like Jane Goodall. All on the natural world, Diane von Furstenberg on style and confidence, and over 200 more leaders, artists and innovators at the top of their fields. Whether you're gifting Masterclass to your mom or treating yourself, it's a thoughtful way to invest in personal growth. With a membership, you get unlimited access to classes across cooking, writing, design, leadership, photography and more for just $10 a month, billed annually. That's every single instructor, anytime, anywhere. And it actually works. Did you know that 88% of members say Masterclass has had a positive impact on their lives? Plus, every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. This Mother's Day, give your mom something inspiring to dive into. Our wiser than me listeners always get great discounts on Masterclass of at least 15% off any annual [e-mail] See Masterclass latest deal at least 15% [e-mail] wiser masterclass.com wiser Spring is here and summer's just around the corner. Honestly, besides the warmer weather, half the fun of this time of year is planning your summer vacation, right? Deciding where to go, figuring out where you'll stay, and picturing yourself soaking up the sun or exploring somewhere totally new. But while you're off making amazing memories, what about your place? See, this is exactly where Airbnb comes in. If you're thinking about earning a little extra cash while you're away, tapping into that side hustle mentality can be a game changer. Whether it's offering your space for others to enjoy or just making things easier for yourself, there's an opportunity to make the most of your time away without lifting a finger. So if you're already adding your spot on Airbnb, make it even easier with a co host. They're total pros, vetted on Airbnb and can handle everything for you. Especially if you're planning to be gone for a while or you've got an investment property. Find a co [e-mail] host this show is sponsored by Midi Health. Staying in touch with your body becomes more important than ever as you get older, especially for women. After 40, hormones shift, energy changes, and what your body needs has evolved over time. Paying attention to how you feel, how you move, and how you respond to stress can make a huge difference. So of course, while this hormonal transition is a fact of life, it doesn't mean you have to accept these symptoms as just another part of aging. Get help with Midi Health. Their clinicians are menopause experts equipped to support you with safe, effective FDA approved medications as well as supplements, lifestyle coaching and preventative health guidance. You'll come out of the experience feeling heard and with a plan to start feeling better. Listening to your body, both the big signals and the subtle ones, helps you stay connected and in control of your health at every stage. But tuning in isn't always easy, and that's why support matters. Midi Health offers convenient, accessible care through telehealth visits and 247 messaging. Plus all of their services are covered by insurance. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit [e-mail] that's joinmidi.com springtime colors buttery soft fabrics Everyday luxury Cozy Earth is here to help you transform your home into a sanctuary with premium bedding, towels, pajamas and loungewear designed for comfort and calm. From breathable sheets that help you sleep cooler to ultra soft fabric that won't pill, every Cozy Earth product is crafted with Care and made to last Cozy spaces support your mental well being by helping you relax, unwind and feel safe. Creating a home sanctuary is more than comfor comfort. It's essential self care. Cozy Earth believes your 5 to 9 after work should be the most relaxing part of your day. Whether you're winding down at night or easing into your morning, Cozy Earth's durable temperature regulating fabrics create the kind of comfort you'll actually look forward to. And with a 100 night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty on all bedding, it's a risk free way to bring more ease and softness into your life. Luxury shouldn't be out of Reach. Visit cozyearth.com and use my exclusive code WISER for up to 40% off Cozy Earth's best selling sheets, towels, pajamas and more. You won't regret it. That's cozyearth.com codewiser and if you get a post purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth from wiser than me. Sanctuary awaits at Cozy Earth. Let me ask you this question. Was there ever a time in your life that you struggled financially or were you. But you sort of hit it big from the get go?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, I struggled. Yeah. I did struggle in the beginning.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

You mean before the rap dress or in between?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, no, no. I mean, you know, after my big success, you know.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. I had a lot of very stressful moment. Yes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

But you know, you forget, you forget the bad things. Like you forget the physical pain. You forget it. Once it's done, you forget it. So. And every single thing, every negative experience in your life ends up being an experience and turns into something. That's another trick that I always tell my friends. You know, sometimes, you know, my friend, I mean, I don't know, they do a movie or they do a book and it's. And it's not. Or their company is going bankruptcy, they get bad press and they, they just feel so bad. And I always say the same thing. I said, this moment that is so hard will be the best anecdote when you write your book or you tell your TED Talk.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Turn it into an asset. Right?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That's right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. It's funny because not to keep going back to this, but when I had cancer, and it's funny you say that. Which was just very wicked. And I was in production, we had to shut down production. Right. For almost a year. And because I was, you know, normally I would have kept something like that completely private into myself because it was. Because it is so private. But in this case I really had to make a statement about it because everybody had to stop working on. On this show. I was doing Veep on hbo, and so. So I had to make it public. Well, here's the positive thing that came out of that was that I was talking about insurance and how critical insurance obviously, is for everyone and everyone deserves to have it. And out of that sprung an opportunity for me to raise awareness and raise funds for women.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Exactly.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Right.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Exactly.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And so. And your experience, especially when, you know you are a person, a public person, right. Your job is a purpose. So when something. What is inspiring to other people is not your success, your Emmy or your Esca or whatever, what is inspiring is when you talk about your vulnerability. That is inspiring.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, right. Exactly. Are you gonna retire at some point or you're just keeping up this pace of fabulousness?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

No, but, you know, you changed. I mean, now I'm you. You know, I'm born on New Year's Eve.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's a great birthday.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, it's very neat. You know, when the year is over, it's over. So as a result of that, I always do New Year's resolution, blah, blah, blah. So now, you know, now I'm entering the winter of my life, which could be a short winter, a long winter. I don't know that. But it's the winter of my life. And therefore, at this time of my life, it is more important than ever to really focus on using my voice, my knowledge, my experience, my wisdom, my connection, my resources in order to help others and to kind of, you know, improve the world and society to the best we can. And right now, it's so discouraging. The world seems so corrupt and so that I think we have to look for the light, even if it's just a tiny little bit of light, and build around the light, cherish the light, share the light. Because at the end, it is the light that pushes the darkness away.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

This year, we are. I don't know if it was this year. No, it wasn't. It was last year. We lost the spectacular Vogue journalist and editor, Andre Leon Talley. I know. Who is a very good friend of yours. What did he mean to you? And also, can you talk about endings and how you deal with endings?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Okay, so Andre was, first of all, my friend. He was my friend for over 45 years. He happened to be also a formidable person. But if you're talking about ending. And it was very sad that he died. He died January 18th last year. But strangely enough, his life has become even bigger, really, since he died. You know, How? Well, the recognition that he has received.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And the recognition of his book and his work and, you know, he was almost evicted from his house a few months before he died, but didn't. And now the street names, his name, you know, so there is no such thing as ending. It's evolution. We are all part of nature and we evolve into something else.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah, but I mean. But what about your sadness when he passed? I mean, you must have been very. I mean, he sounds like such an extraordinary human being.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yes, yes, but death, you know, life is a journey. Death is a destination. We all so, I mean, there's not a day in my life that I don't think about death. And that is my way of dealing with it. So, you know, I mean, that happens to everyone.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I know. We've all got it in common. We're all headed there.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

That's right.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

God, you're so gracious with your time. I want to ask you just a couple more quick questions and you can just give me whatever thing pops into your head. Is there something you'd go back and tell yourself at 21?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Go for it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Is there something you go back and say yes to?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

The only thing you regret in life is the things you don't do right. And I did pretty much all I could do.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

What's the best business advice you ever received? Or the worst? Or both?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Oh, I don't know. My big fault in business is that I enable people. And I. Because I feel like I can make things happen. I think that everyone can make things happen. But, you know, I don't think I am a great businesswoman. I think I am a very good manifesto. I can manifest things. I can make things happen. I am somewhat, a little bit of a visionary, but I'm definitely not an executive, nor do I want to make.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

But you're like an inspirer. That's the sense I have. Is that true?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. Yes. And manifesto. I like the. I believe in manifestation. You know, you have a vision and you make it happen.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Can you give me an example of when that happened in your life?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Oh, my God. Everything about my life. Everything. Like, for example, now I have this vision that my last act, Venice, the city of Venice, is going to play a very large role in my life. Why? Because I fell in love with Venice not only for its beauty, but for its history. 1600 years. I mean, for me, Venice is a woman. And she's had the most extraordinary life. She's invented everything. She invented a banking system. She invented the banknotes. She invented diplomacy, the passport, the Custom. Everything that we use in the modern world was invented in Venice. And I had this vision that I think Venice should be a place where we kind of elevate the debate and where people meet. And I see Venice as a think tank. And so that's my vision. How I would like to spend a lot of my winter.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I hope you do it. I know you'll do it.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And I'll invite you.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Would you?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Yeah. Because you are an idea person. You also are definitely a manifesto. You are a very. A very generous manifesto. You have ideas and you make them happen.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

So, yeah, thank you for saying that.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

And I would be very curious to hear you. Or to interview you, for that matter. We could turn around the next time.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That would be superb. I gotta say, it's been kind of dreamy talking to you. It's been very dreamy talking to you.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Well, thank you very much for asking me. And continue to be the woman you are. You are definitely inspiring.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Back at you, dvf.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Bye, darling.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

The chicest lady ever. Bye. Lots of love to you. Thank you.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Bye.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Bye. Bye.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Bye.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay, another podcast done and dusted. Wow. There is so much to tell my mom. Okay, I'm gonna call her. Right, Mama.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, hi, honey.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Hi. So I just talked to Diane von Furstenberg.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, wow. I hope. I hope the wrap dress is still there.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah. Speaking of the wrap dress, mom, did you have a wrap dress? Mommy?

[Judith Bowles]

I did have a wrap dress and I was trying to think. They came out in. Was it. When. When was it first that they came out?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

74. 1974. Yeah.

[Judith Bowles]

So I had a wrap dress and I was trying to remember what. It seemed to me that it had some kind of geometric print on it.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Judith Bowles]

And then one that was sort of gray and was sort of maybe one color or two colors, something like that. I loved it, but it made. I don't know why. Made me feel a little self conscious.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Why, Mommy?

[Judith Bowles]

Well, I don't know. Maybe I was just so used to wearing pants, you know, it was just.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Just.

[Judith Bowles]

It was such a wonderful dress. Maybe I didn't. I can't remember, but I just somehow felt a little self conscious.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, it was a very sexy dress. So maybe that's why you felt self conscious. Yeah, because it's not like you're wearing pants all the time. But I told her this story and I gotta say, she did not find it as funny as I do. I don't think I told you this, but recently I was on vacation and I saw a pair of culottes and I Wasn't sure if I should get them or not, right? It was like. Like, when am I going to wear culottes? I don't play golf. I. I just. But they were so comfortable, and so I put them on hold and I went to go have lunch, and then one of my teeth fell out of my mouth during lunch. And I thought, oh, this is maybe not a good sign. A woman whose teeth are falling out from mouth should not perhaps be buying Kula.

[Judith Bowles]

Excuse me, but I'm very worried about that. Why did the tooth fall out?

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I don't know, Mom. I cracked a molar. Who knows? But the next thing I know, I was practically coughing on it. Oh, what?

[Diane von Furstenberg]

So it's all.

[Judith Bowles]

I mean, did your whole teeth fall out or just the top of.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes. No, the whole. The whole thing came out. I was all. Anyway, so. So what was your dentist. I had to have surgery on my mouth or something, you know, I mean, it all worked out fine. And see, look, I'm opening your mouth. You can see all my teeth. I've got all my. All my choppers. But.

[Judith Bowles]

But not some terrible gum disease or something like that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

I don't have any gum disease. I've got my teeth. And I'll tell you what I don't have is a pair of culottes that I don't have.

[Judith Bowles]

Well, hold on to your teeth and I'll go get the culottes.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, shit.

[Judith Bowles]

Actually, I love culottes. They're very comfy.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

That's the thing. I'm back in love with them, too. They are. They are really comfortable. I don't know why. It's the shorts underneath the skirt. It's like a magic combo, you know?

[Judith Bowles]

Shorts underneath the skirt.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yes, that's what culottes are.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, I thought culottes were those three quarter pants that were wide.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, I don't know what the fuck they are. Oh, I'm talking about. Maybe I'm talking about a scorch. I guess that's. I'm being told. Well, this whole time I was talking about a skirt that has shorts attached.

[Judith Bowles]

Oh, no, honey, you don't need that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[Judith Bowles]

Yeah, well, there's no way. Okay, fine.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

All right, well, Mommy, I'll. I'll talk to you soon.

[Judith Bowles]

Okay, good, good.

[Diane von Furstenberg]

Be well.

[Judith Bowles]

And love to everybody. And to you especially.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Okay, Love you, Mommy. There's more Wiser Than Me with Lemonada Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content. Subscribe now and Apple podcasts. Wiser Than Me is a production of Lemonada Media created and hosted by me, Julia Louis Dreyfus. The show is produced produced by Chrissy Pease, Alex McGowan and Oha Lopez. Brad hall is a consulting producer, our Senior editor is Tracy Clayton, Rachel Neal is our Senior Director of New Content and our VP of Weekly Production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles, Wax, Jessica Cordova, Kramer, Paula Kaplan and me. The show is mixed by Kat Yourr and Johnny Vince Evans and music by Henry hall, who who you can also find on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to Charlotte Christman Cohen and of course, my mother, Judith Bowles. Follow Wiser Than me wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, if there's an old lady in your life, listen up.